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\"start\": 384.718, \"end\": 384.798, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 384.798, \"end\": 384.878, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 384.878, \"end\": 384.978, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 384.978, \"end\": 385.018, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 385.018, \"end\": 385.038, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,896 --> 00:00:04,057\n主席\n\n2\n00:00:13,156 --> 00:00:36,861\n黃源你好部長好部長好今天主要要來討論我們這個都更條65條的修正草的修正案那當然本席看了這個相關條文當然非常非常的支持因為我想這對於921那段尷尬的時間新建的房子讓他們參與都市更新他是正面有鼓勵的這個方向但是本席還是要問一下這個問題就是說這個都市更新的這個獎勵容積的部分因為後續\n\n3\n00:00:38,001 --> 00:00:38,481\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n4\n00:00:55,976 --> 00:01:22,769\n他的老舊社區也存在所以他未來如果推動相關都市更新條例的時候也會有很多這個案子出現那問題是這種公共開放空間到底他的權責是屬於公部門還是屬於私部門因為我想現在很多新的很多案子現在的住宅這個問題就是說他雖然產權上他屬於私人財產但他使用上他變成要公眾來使用那所以到權責主管機關是私人還是公用\n\n5\n00:01:23,549 --> 00:01:43,828\n最核心問題還是簽上錢的問題誰來管理誰來保養這個部長您怎麼看委員您剛已經提到了這個公共空間裡面的產權是屬於私人的話就是表示是屬於私人的是屬於社區的但是怎麼樣讓它維持它是個公共空間開放的部分確實在管理上面的會出現很多的挑戰跟困境我想您長久服務在\n\n6\n00:01:45,009 --> 00:01:46,449\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n7\n00:02:11,217 --> 00:02:27,430\n感謝委員那這個公共開放空間的部分因為在獎勵的項目裡面的確大部分都是在地方政府的相關的規定裡面都有去訂定當然有些是放在都更的獎勵那有些是放在一般建築的這個容積獎勵的項目但是第二個就是說\n\n8\n00:02:28,010 --> 00:02:29,671\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n9\n00:02:48,598 --> 00:02:48,738\n主席\n\n10\n00:03:04,839 --> 00:03:19,629\n現在的現行法律當然對於公共大會管理條例它第一個階段管理會成立前它要撥款到這個管理會裡面去那未來呢未來部分我建議是說這個都更獎勵建商從這邊獲得的利潤應該要分配到所謂的基金裡面\n\n11\n00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:34,748\n讓他專款專用到後續的維護管理讓這個容積獎勵他能夠真正的發揮所謂的公平性跟公義性不要說我反正蓋完賣給你之後全面做管理會的事情那管理會跟周邊社區的不愉快的話那也跟建商沒關係但問題是建商你把錢賺走了\n\n12\n00:03:35,469 --> 00:03:38,914\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n13\n00:03:52,732 --> 00:03:52,872\n主席主席\n\n14\n00:04:11,543 --> 00:04:25,840\n現在要做都市更新的地方都是所謂的老舊市區嘛原則上都這樣吧老舊市區最面臨最現實的停車場停車位不足現有的這些建築物裡面所以過去你們是把它放在這個建築規則裡面\n\n15\n00:04:27,962 --> 00:04:50,784\n讓地方政府自己去訂立相關的容積獎勵訂立相關的這個規範那如果今天65條通過之後我想很多的老舊建物他們也能夠納入這個都更之後停車場部分能不能把它提升它相關的位階它的容積獎勵能不能放入停車場不要說又讓地方政府去處理因為現階段來講很多地方政府到後面因為管理的問題它就不處理啦就不做了是停車場部分\n\n16\n00:04:52,125 --> 00:05:10,420\n跟委員報告啦,因為現行的建管的規定,各縣大概都差不多,尤其會透過交評的部分來做處理。所以,通常它是至少都以呼籲車位這樣的方式來訂立,有的甚至會訂的更高。那這些其實都已經有在落實當中啦。\n\n17\n00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:11,621\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n18\n00:05:26,502 --> 00:05:27,984\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n19\n00:05:44,864 --> 00:05:46,425\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n20\n00:06:01,370 --> 00:06:25,038\n跟委員報告通常這個就是我們在會找地方政府討論因為有一些的確他會變成說未來是作為獎勵也就是說我獎勵你蓋更多的停車位去出租或什麼那這個未來這個部分地方政府就要視他們在地的情形看他是不是要納到都更的獎勵項目或是說他會額外的獎勵或是額外的要求這個部分我們會好我們時間到了我們在後續再跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝署長主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3896\t4057\t主席\n13156\t36861\t黃源你好部長好部長好今天主要要來討論我們這個都更條65條的修正草的修正案那當然本席看了這個相關條文當然非常非常的支持因為我想這對於921那段尷尬的時間新建的房子讓他們參與都市更新他是正面有鼓勵的這個方向但是本席還是要問一下這個問題就是說這個都市更新的這個獎勵容積的部分因為後續\n38001\t38481\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n55976\t82769\t他的老舊社區也存在所以他未來如果推動相關都市更新條例的時候也會有很多這個案子出現那問題是這種公共開放空間到底他的權責是屬於公部門還是屬於私部門因為我想現在很多新的很多案子現在的住宅這個問題就是說他雖然產權上他屬於私人財產但他使用上他變成要公眾來使用那所以到權責主管機關是私人還是公用\n83549\t103828\t最核心問題還是簽上錢的問題誰來管理誰來保養這個部長您怎麼看委員您剛已經提到了這個公共空間裡面的產權是屬於私人的話就是表示是屬於私人的是屬於社區的但是怎麼樣讓它維持它是個公共空間開放的部分確實在管理上面的會出現很多的挑戰跟困境我想您長久服務在\n105009\t106449\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n131217\t147430\t感謝委員那這個公共開放空間的部分因為在獎勵的項目裡面的確大部分都是在地方政府的相關的規定裡面都有去訂定當然有些是放在都更的獎勵那有些是放在一般建築的這個容積獎勵的項目但是第二個就是說\n148010\t149671\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n168598\t168738\t主席\n184839\t199629\t現在的現行法律當然對於公共大會管理條例它第一個階段管理會成立前它要撥款到這個管理會裡面去那未來呢未來部分我建議是說這個都更獎勵建商從這邊獲得的利潤應該要分配到所謂的基金裡面\n200490\t214748\t讓他專款專用到後續的維護管理讓這個容積獎勵他能夠真正的發揮所謂的公平性跟公義性不要說我反正蓋完賣給你之後全面做管理會的事情那管理會跟周邊社區的不愉快的話那也跟建商沒關係但問題是建商你把錢賺走了\n215469\t218914\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。\n232732\t232872\t主席主席\n251543\t265840\t現在要做都市更新的地方都是所謂的老舊市區嘛原則上都這樣吧老舊市區最面臨最現實的停車場停車位不足現有的這些建築物裡面所以過去你們是把它放在這個建築規則裡面\n267962\t290784\t讓地方政府自己去訂立相關的容積獎勵訂立相關的這個規範那如果今天65條通過之後我想很多的老舊建物他們也能夠納入這個都更之後停車場部分能不能把它提升它相關的位階它的容積獎勵能不能放入停車場不要說又讓地方政府去處理因為現階段來講很多地方政府到後面因為管理的問題它就不處理啦就不做了是停車場部分\n292125\t310420\t跟委員報告啦,因為現行的建管的規定,各縣大概都差不多,尤其會透過交評的部分來做處理。所以,通常它是至少都以呼籲車位這樣的方式來訂立,有的甚至會訂的更高。那這些其實都已經有在落實當中啦。\n310740\t311621\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n326502\t327984\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n344864\t346425\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n361370\t385038\t跟委員報告通常這個就是我們在會找地方政府討論因為有一些的確他會變成說未來是作為獎勵也就是說我獎勵你蓋更多的停車位去出租或什麼那這個未來這個部分地方政府就要視他們在地的情形看他是不是要納到都更的獎勵項目或是說他會額外的獎勵或是額外的要求這個部分我們會好我們時間到了我們在後續再跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝署長主席謝謝\n390998\t391118\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n","txt":"主席\n黃源你好部長好部長好今天主要要來討論我們這個都更條65條的修正草的修正案那當然本席看了這個相關條文當然非常非常的支持因為我想這對於921那段尷尬的時間新建的房子讓他們參與都市更新他是正面有鼓勵的這個方向但是本席還是要問一下這個問題就是說這個都市更新的這個獎勵容積的部分因為後續\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n他的老舊社區也存在所以他未來如果推動相關都市更新條例的時候也會有很多這個案子出現那問題是這種公共開放空間到底他的權責是屬於公部門還是屬於私部門因為我想現在很多新的很多案子現在的住宅這個問題就是說他雖然產權上他屬於私人財產但他使用上他變成要公眾來使用那所以到權責主管機關是私人還是公用\n最核心問題還是簽上錢的問題誰來管理誰來保養這個部長您怎麼看委員您剛已經提到了這個公共空間裡面的產權是屬於私人的話就是表示是屬於私人的是屬於社區的但是怎麼樣讓它維持它是個公共空間開放的部分確實在管理上面的會出現很多的挑戰跟困境我想您長久服務在\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n感謝委員那這個公共開放空間的部分因為在獎勵的項目裡面的確大部分都是在地方政府的相關的規定裡面都有去訂定當然有些是放在都更的獎勵那有些是放在一般建築的這個容積獎勵的項目但是第二個就是說\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n主席\n現在的現行法律當然對於公共大會管理條例它第一個階段管理會成立前它要撥款到這個管理會裡面去那未來呢未來部分我建議是說這個都更獎勵建商從這邊獲得的利潤應該要分配到所謂的基金裡面\n讓他專款專用到後續的維護管理讓這個容積獎勵他能夠真正的發揮所謂的公平性跟公義性不要說我反正蓋完賣給你之後全面做管理會的事情那管理會跟周邊社區的不愉快的話那也跟建商沒關係但問題是建商你把錢賺走了\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。\n主席主席\n現在要做都市更新的地方都是所謂的老舊市區嘛原則上都這樣吧老舊市區最面臨最現實的停車場停車位不足現有的這些建築物裡面所以過去你們是把它放在這個建築規則裡面\n讓地方政府自己去訂立相關的容積獎勵訂立相關的這個規範那如果今天65條通過之後我想很多的老舊建物他們也能夠納入這個都更之後停車場部分能不能把它提升它相關的位階它的容積獎勵能不能放入停車場不要說又讓地方政府去處理因為現階段來講很多地方政府到後面因為管理的問題它就不處理啦就不做了是停車場部分\n跟委員報告啦,因為現行的建管的規定,各縣大概都差不多,尤其會透過交評的部分來做處理。所以,通常它是至少都以呼籲車位這樣的方式來訂立,有的甚至會訂的更高。那這些其實都已經有在落實當中啦。\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n跟委員報告通常這個就是我們在會找地方政府討論因為有一些的確他會變成說未來是作為獎勵也就是說我獎勵你蓋更多的停車位去出租或什麼那這個未來這個部分地方政府就要視他們在地的情形看他是不是要納到都更的獎勵項目或是說他會額外的獎勵或是額外的要求這個部分我們會好我們時間到了我們在後續再跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝署長主席謝謝\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.896 --> 00:04.057\n主席\n\n00:13.156 --> 00:36.861\n黃源你好部長好部長好今天主要要來討論我們這個都更條65條的修正草的修正案那當然本席看了這個相關條文當然非常非常的支持因為我想這對於921那段尷尬的時間新建的房子讓他們參與都市更新他是正面有鼓勵的這個方向但是本席還是要問一下這個問題就是說這個都市更新的這個獎勵容積的部分因為後續\n\n00:38.001 --> 00:38.481\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n00:55.976 --> 01:22.769\n他的老舊社區也存在所以他未來如果推動相關都市更新條例的時候也會有很多這個案子出現那問題是這種公共開放空間到底他的權責是屬於公部門還是屬於私部門因為我想現在很多新的很多案子現在的住宅這個問題就是說他雖然產權上他屬於私人財產但他使用上他變成要公眾來使用那所以到權責主管機關是私人還是公用\n\n01:23.549 --> 01:43.828\n最核心問題還是簽上錢的問題誰來管理誰來保養這個部長您怎麼看委員您剛已經提到了這個公共空間裡面的產權是屬於私人的話就是表示是屬於私人的是屬於社區的但是怎麼樣讓它維持它是個公共空間開放的部分確實在管理上面的會出現很多的挑戰跟困境我想您長久服務在\n\n01:45.009 --> 01:46.449\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n02:11.217 --> 02:27.430\n感謝委員那這個公共開放空間的部分因為在獎勵的項目裡面的確大部分都是在地方政府的相關的規定裡面都有去訂定當然有些是放在都更的獎勵那有些是放在一般建築的這個容積獎勵的項目但是第二個就是說\n\n02:28.010 --> 02:29.671\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n02:48.598 --> 02:48.738\n主席\n\n03:04.839 --> 03:19.629\n現在的現行法律當然對於公共大會管理條例它第一個階段管理會成立前它要撥款到這個管理會裡面去那未來呢未來部分我建議是說這個都更獎勵建商從這邊獲得的利潤應該要分配到所謂的基金裡面\n\n03:20.490 --> 03:34.748\n讓他專款專用到後續的維護管理讓這個容積獎勵他能夠真正的發揮所謂的公平性跟公義性不要說我反正蓋完賣給你之後全面做管理會的事情那管理會跟周邊社區的不愉快的話那也跟建商沒關係但問題是建商你把錢賺走了\n\n03:35.469 --> 03:38.914\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n03:52.732 --> 03:52.872\n主席主席\n\n04:11.543 --> 04:25.840\n現在要做都市更新的地方都是所謂的老舊市區嘛原則上都這樣吧老舊市區最面臨最現實的停車場停車位不足現有的這些建築物裡面所以過去你們是把它放在這個建築規則裡面\n\n04:27.962 --> 04:50.784\n讓地方政府自己去訂立相關的容積獎勵訂立相關的這個規範那如果今天65條通過之後我想很多的老舊建物他們也能夠納入這個都更之後停車場部分能不能把它提升它相關的位階它的容積獎勵能不能放入停車場不要說又讓地方政府去處理因為現階段來講很多地方政府到後面因為管理的問題它就不處理啦就不做了是停車場部分\n\n04:52.125 --> 05:10.420\n跟委員報告啦,因為現行的建管的規定,各縣大概都差不多,尤其會透過交評的部分來做處理。所以,通常它是至少都以呼籲車位這樣的方式來訂立,有的甚至會訂的更高。那這些其實都已經有在落實當中啦。\n\n05:10.740 --> 05:11.621\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n05:26.502 --> 05:27.984\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n05:44.864 --> 05:46.425\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n06:01.370 --> 06:25.038\n跟委員報告通常這個就是我們在會找地方政府討論因為有一些的確他會變成說未來是作為獎勵也就是說我獎勵你蓋更多的停車位去出租或什麼那這個未來這個部分地方政府就要視他們在地的情形看他是不是要納到都更的獎勵項目或是說他會額外的獎勵或是額外的要求這個部分我們會好我們時間到了我們在後續再跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝署長主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.896,"end":4.057,"text":"主席"},{"start":13.156,"end":36.861,"text":"黃源你好部長好部長好今天主要要來討論我們這個都更條65條的修正草的修正案那當然本席看了這個相關條文當然非常非常的支持因為我想這對於921那段尷尬的時間新建的房子讓他們參與都市更新他是正面有鼓勵的這個方向但是本席還是要問一下這個問題就是說這個都市更新的這個獎勵容積的部分因為後續"},{"start":38.001,"end":38.481,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":55.976,"end":82.769,"text":"他的老舊社區也存在所以他未來如果推動相關都市更新條例的時候也會有很多這個案子出現那問題是這種公共開放空間到底他的權責是屬於公部門還是屬於私部門因為我想現在很多新的很多案子現在的住宅這個問題就是說他雖然產權上他屬於私人財產但他使用上他變成要公眾來使用那所以到權責主管機關是私人還是公用"},{"start":83.549,"end":103.828,"text":"最核心問題還是簽上錢的問題誰來管理誰來保養這個部長您怎麼看委員您剛已經提到了這個公共空間裡面的產權是屬於私人的話就是表示是屬於私人的是屬於社區的但是怎麼樣讓它維持它是個公共空間開放的部分確實在管理上面的會出現很多的挑戰跟困境我想您長久服務在"},{"start":105.009,"end":106.449,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":131.217,"end":147.43,"text":"感謝委員那這個公共開放空間的部分因為在獎勵的項目裡面的確大部分都是在地方政府的相關的規定裡面都有去訂定當然有些是放在都更的獎勵那有些是放在一般建築的這個容積獎勵的項目但是第二個就是說"},{"start":148.01,"end":149.671,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":168.598,"end":168.738,"text":"主席"},{"start":184.839,"end":199.629,"text":"現在的現行法律當然對於公共大會管理條例它第一個階段管理會成立前它要撥款到這個管理會裡面去那未來呢未來部分我建議是說這個都更獎勵建商從這邊獲得的利潤應該要分配到所謂的基金裡面"},{"start":200.49,"end":214.748,"text":"讓他專款專用到後續的維護管理讓這個容積獎勵他能夠真正的發揮所謂的公平性跟公義性不要說我反正蓋完賣給你之後全面做管理會的事情那管理會跟周邊社區的不愉快的話那也跟建商沒關係但問題是建商你把錢賺走了"},{"start":215.469,"end":218.914,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":232.732,"end":232.872,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":251.543,"end":265.84,"text":"現在要做都市更新的地方都是所謂的老舊市區嘛原則上都這樣吧老舊市區最面臨最現實的停車場停車位不足現有的這些建築物裡面所以過去你們是把它放在這個建築規則裡面"},{"start":267.962,"end":290.784,"text":"讓地方政府自己去訂立相關的容積獎勵訂立相關的這個規範那如果今天65條通過之後我想很多的老舊建物他們也能夠納入這個都更之後停車場部分能不能把它提升它相關的位階它的容積獎勵能不能放入停車場不要說又讓地方政府去處理因為現階段來講很多地方政府到後面因為管理的問題它就不處理啦就不做了是停車場部分"},{"start":292.125,"end":310.42,"text":"跟委員報告啦,因為現行的建管的規定,各縣大概都差不多,尤其會透過交評的部分來做處理。所以,通常它是至少都以呼籲車位這樣的方式來訂立,有的甚至會訂的更高。那這些其實都已經有在落實當中啦。"},{"start":310.74,"end":311.621,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":326.502,"end":327.984,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":344.864,"end":346.425,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":361.37,"end":385.038,"text":"跟委員報告通常這個就是我們在會找地方政府討論因為有一些的確他會變成說未來是作為獎勵也就是說我獎勵你蓋更多的停車位去出租或什麼那這個未來這個部分地方政府就要視他們在地的情形看他是不是要納到都更的獎勵項目或是說他會額外的獎勵或是額外的要求這個部分我們會好我們時間到了我們在後續再跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝署長主席謝謝"},{"start":390.998,"end":391.118,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:12:08 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11:18:40","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","id":154983,"gazette":{"lineno":676,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時12分）謝謝主席，還是請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：黃委員你好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。部長，我想今天主要當然討論我們都更條例第六十五條的修正案，當然本席看了相關條文非常非常地支持，因為我想這對於921那段尷尬的時間興建的房子，讓他們參與都市更新是正面、有鼓勵的方向，但是本席還是要問一下這個問題，就是都市更新的獎勵容積的部分，因為所謂容獎當然有包含到公共的開放空間，剛剛稍早之前，我想也有委員提到這個問題，我想問一下，部長，對於像這種公共空間，尤其現階段其實問題已經叢生了，尤其是我的選區是北屯區，是全臺灣新成屋最多的地方，當然它的老舊社區也存在，所以它未來如果推動相關都市更新條例的時候，也會有很多案子出現，問題是這種公共開放空間，到底它的權責是屬於公部門還是屬於私部門？因為我想現在很多新的案子，現在的住宅這個問題就是說，它雖然產權上屬於私人財產，但它使用上變成要供公眾來使用，所以到底權責主管機關是私人還是公用？當然最核心問題還是牽涉到錢的問題，誰來管理、誰來保養，這個部長你怎麼看？"],["劉部長世芳：委員，您剛剛已經提到了，這個公共空間裡面的產權是屬於私人的話，就是表示是屬於私人的、是屬於社區的，但是怎麼樣讓它維持它是一個公共空間開放的部分，確實在管理上面會出現很多的挑戰跟困境，我想您長久服務在北屯，非常了解這個狀況，所以有些委員已經有提到說是否這個公共空間的使用的部分要納入？包括可能是我們的公寓大廈管理條例裡面專款專用，或者是未來建商要拿到建照或使照之前，就必須要把它納入管理的範圍，這些都是我們可以討論的部分，現行的處理方式，我是不是可以請署長跟委員做個簡單的報告？"],["黃委員健豪：好，請署長。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，公共開放空間的部分，因為在獎勵的項目裡面，的確大部分在地方政府的相關規定裡面都有去訂定，當然有些是放在都更的獎勵，有些是放在一般建築的容積獎勵項目，但是第二個就是說，照過去的地方政府都比較熟悉的一個做法，就是把它納到公寓大廈的管理維護基金，但是就會像剛剛所擔憂的……"],["黃委員健豪：它會進到大水庫裡面啊！"],["吳署長欣修：它可能在使用的順序上，對於管委會來講，它並不是優先項目，所以這個部分需不需要來做專款專用的一個規定，這個部分我們就會找地方政府再來討論。"],["黃委員健豪：署長、部長，我的建議是這樣，因為都更條例的容獎出來，它的機制，講白了，這件事情出來之後，最大的獲利者不一定是市民，最大獲利者可能是協助都更的建商，所以我想在未來相關條例裡面，應該讓建商有它的責任跟義務，現在的現行法令當然對於公寓大廈管理條例，第一個階段，管委會成立前，它要撥款到管委會裡面去，而未來的部分我建議是都更獎勵，建商從這邊獲得的利潤應該要分配到所謂的基金裡面，讓它專款專用到後續的維護管理，讓這個容積獎勵能夠真正地發揮所謂的公平性跟公益性，不要說我房子蓋完賣給你之後，全部都管委會的事情，那管委會跟周邊社區如果不愉快的話，也跟建商沒關係，但問題是建商你把錢賺走了，今天它能夠獲得容積獎勵、它能夠蓋更多的房子、它能夠把容積蓋得更高、賺更多錢，結果後續沒有它的事情，所以我想從公平原則來講的話，是不是可以讓相關的精神放進所謂的專款專用的條款裡面，甚至放進公寓大廈管理條例裡面？部長。"],["吳署長欣修：我們會來找地方政府再來討論，就希望很明確地要求他們把它定到相關的規定裡面去處理，當然如果有需要在公寓大廈管理條例裡面去落實，這個我們也會來處理。"],["黃委員健豪：另外，提到容獎的部分，過去針對停車場的部分，我想部長應該很清楚，現在要做都市更新的地方都是所謂的老舊市區嘛！原則上都這樣吧？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["黃委員健豪：老舊市區面臨最現實的就是停車場、停車位不足，現有的這些建築物裡面，所以過去你們是把它放在建築規則裡面，讓地方政府自己去訂定相關的容積獎勵、訂定相關的規範，但是如果今天第六十五條通過之後，我想很多的老舊建物也能夠納入都更之後，停車場的部分能不能把它提升相關的位階，它的容積獎勵能不能放入停車場？不要說又讓地方政府去處理，因為現階段來講，很多地方政府到後面，因為管理的問題，它就不處理啦！就不做了，停車場的部分。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，因為現行建管的規定，各縣市大概都差不多，尤其會透過交評的部分來做處理，所以通常至少都一戶一車位這樣的方式來訂立，有的甚至會訂得更高，那這些其實都已經有在落實當中。"],["黃委員健豪：一戶一車位當然如果是很單純的住宅區沒問題，但是問題現在我們講到的，今天要加入都更的這些房子，它很多地方是屬於現有的，它就是舊市區，它就是既有很完善的生活機能區，但它的停車位就不足嘛！所以才會有什麼……在隔壁有交通委員會，才會一直討論什麼行人地獄，然後沒有停車空間等等的問題，今天我們要在舊市區去解決，好不容易能夠做都更了，新的房子蓋起來了，但是我還是沒有地方停車，所以我是建議是不是能夠把相關停車的考量放進都更的評選裡面，因為當然現階段有，現階段就是把它交給地方政府去評選，但是我是希望能夠提升它的位階，變成未來在做都更的時候，你蓋新的大樓、新的建物，尤其在舊市區裡面、在既有的商業區裡面，你蓋新大樓，你的停車位應該要釋出來吧！這個也放進它的容積獎勵的考評裡面吧？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，通常這個就是我們會再找地方政府討論，因為有一些的確會變成說未來是作為獎勵，也就是說我獎勵你蓋更多的停車位去出租或什麼，未來這個部分地方政府就要視他們在地的情形，看它是不是要納到都更的獎勵項目，或者是說它會額外的獎勵或是額外的要求，這個部分我們會……"],["黃委員健豪：好，沒關係，我們時間到了，我們後續再跟您討論。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝部長、謝謝署長，主席謝謝。"],["主席：我們請徐巧芯委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}}