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{\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 63.63, \"end\": 63.77, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 63.77, \"end\": 64.39, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 64.39, \"end\": 64.81, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"遷\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 64.81, \"end\": 64.951, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 64.951, \"end\": 64.971, \"score\": 0.953}]}, {\"start\": 66.041, \"end\": 85.958, \"text\": \"但是就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都提到就是說﹖很多的學者有發起這個永續科研的聯署書提及國科會在自然科學及永續研究發展處有意要去調整那剛剛國科會主委您也做了非常多的說明所以我想要了解就是說因為原本在9月16日有去澄清說沒有這個更動的這個規劃\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 66.041, \"end\": 66.241, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.241, \"end\": 66.882, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 66.882, \"end\": 66.962, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 66.962, \"end\": 67.262, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 67.262, \"end\": 67.342, \"score\": 0.753}, 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561.24, \"end\": 561.26, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"書\"}]}, {\"start\": 566.36, \"end\": 582.483, \"text\": \"對,但是我想請教主委,就是說我們現在的法規是定4年才一次,可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂,那如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話,我們是不是應該要來修法呢?因為4年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 566.36, \"end\": 566.5, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 566.5, \"end\": 566.581, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 566.581, \"end\": 566.661, \"score\": 0.587}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 566.661, \"end\": 566.941, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 566.941, \"end\": 567.121, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 567.121, \"end\": 567.261, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 567.261, \"end\": 567.682, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 567.682, \"end\": 567.862, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 567.862, \"end\": 568.023, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, 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\"start\": 756.596, \"end\": 756.996, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 756.996, \"end\": 757.156, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 757.156, \"end\": 757.256, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"剩\", \"start\": 757.256, \"end\": 757.376, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 757.376, \"end\": 758.677, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 758.677, \"end\": 758.977, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 758.977, \"end\": 759.477, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 759.477, \"end\": 759.617, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 759.617, \"end\": 759.797, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 759.797, \"end\": 759.917, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 759.917, \"end\": 761.698, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 761.698, \"end\": 761.898, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 761.898, \"end\": 762.058, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 762.058, \"end\": 762.259, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 762.259, \"end\": 762.419, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 762.419, \"end\": 762.579, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 762.579, \"end\": 762.799, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 762.799, \"end\": 763.059, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 763.059, \"end\": 763.199, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 763.199, \"end\": 763.459, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 763.459, \"end\": 763.679, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 763.679, \"end\": 764.24, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 764.24, \"end\": 764.32, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 764.32, \"end\": 764.4, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 767.581, \"end\": 767.701, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 767.701, \"end\": 767.721, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 767.721, \"end\": 767.741, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 767.741, \"end\": 767.801, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 767.801, \"end\": 768.081, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 768.081, \"end\": 768.181, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 768.181, \"end\": 768.261, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 768.261, \"end\": 768.422, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 768.422, \"end\": 768.562, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 768.562, \"end\": 768.622, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 768.622, \"end\": 768.642, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"雅\", \"start\": 768.642, \"end\": 768.662, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"琳\", \"start\": 768.662, \"end\": 768.762, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 768.762, \"end\": 768.842, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 768.842, \"end\": 768.962, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 768.962, \"end\": 769.082, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 769.082, \"end\": 769.102, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 769.102, \"end\": 769.122, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,233 --> 00:00:06,416\n謝謝主席有請國科會主委有請吳主委張委員好\n\n2\n00:00:16,141 --> 00:00:40,637\n總統府成立了國家氣候變遷對策委員會委員會討論設定的七大主軸裡面永續就包含了三項永續綠生活、綠色永續金融以及國土永續調適任性總統也在委員會上面去強調永續才是朝野共同的目標主委您也是國家氣候變遷對策委員會的委員相信您一定了解永續的重要性\n\n3\n00:00:41,557 --> 00:01:04,971\n行政院在112年2月21日合訂的一個科學技術白皮書裡面也有提到以前瞻創新民主包容任性永續作為台灣邁向2035科技發展遠景透過科技力量來驅動國家整體的一個轉型所以發現就是永續其實在台灣是非常非常重要不管是在科技上面或是氣候變遷上面\n\n4\n00:01:06,041 --> 00:01:25,958\n但是就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都提到就是說﹖很多的學者有發起這個永續科研的聯署書提及國科會在自然科學及永續研究發展處有意要去調整那剛剛國科會主委您也做了非常多的說明所以我想要了解就是說因為原本在9月16日有去澄清說沒有這個更動的這個規劃\n\n5\n00:01:29,803 --> 00:01:47,546\n委員會議預計在一個月內會來召開學門會議所以我想要了解現在我們已經有一些初步的溝通了嗎有了解一些學者的想法有些掌握了嗎可不可以做個說明好請處長我先請處長好委員會委員好我們在一個月內溝通我們預計在10月1日10月2日10月9日分別跟這三個學門來進行溝通謝謝\n\n6\n00:01:57,846 --> 00:02:23,388\n我希望就是說如果我們溝通之後是希望可以積極的去傾聽我們這個召集人的一些想法來尊重畢竟永續是非常重要的一個課題那其實我也想想就是說國科會在回應學界的訴求其實有一直強調永續科研和今年會逐年增加這兩項作為但是因為學界代表還是會認為這樣的說法過於的簡單化和表面化無法有效的緩解他們的疑慮\n\n7\n00:02:24,409 --> 00:02:30,728\n所以雖然經費的增加非常重要但是僅靠補助並沒有辦法解決學術發展的一些核心問題\n\n8\n00:02:32,625 --> 00:02:51,132\n那我們就繼續講要補助這件事情根據自由時報的報導國科會回應瞭解社會的發展問題需要不同專業領域的對話來形成解決方案所以會長期的來支持支持永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域相關學門的研究那2023年這三個領域跨領域的學門經費是4.8億明年我們有規劃了5.2億也就是剛剛\n\n9\n00:03:00,416 --> 00:03:15,548\n主委一直強調的我們投入的資源是有逐年成長的但是我也發現了在國科會的補助研究計畫永續發展研究的領域這個研究計畫的通過率卻是逐年下降的從2016年我們還有56.6%到2024年只剩下30.1%\n\n10\n00:03:23,038 --> 00:03:23,578\n在2024年合定﹖\n\n11\n00:03:45,851 --> 00:03:46,191\n主席張雅琳\n\n12\n00:04:03,083 --> 00:04:20,508\n和並到其他部門才會讓這個核定率很難通過主委要不要澄清說明一下是是謝謝委員提起這個議題其實不是表面上這樣看的結果我們其實第一我們5.2億增加這個預算其實幅度相當高這是我們在\n\n13\n00:04:21,488 --> 00:04:50,365\n並列明年預算說早就編了不是因為這次事件我們早就編了那第二個計畫的核定數下降這個議題是因為我們逐年在編這個預算在核定計畫的時候是鼓勵多年期的研究是對學者是好的我們通過多年期的研究以後我們其實換算實質的通過率是到六成不是三成是到六成\n\n14\n00:05:17,125 --> 00:05:35,950\n三個都有增加嗎?還是三個加總才是增加?三個都有增加。那請問一下就是說因為剛剛主委說你們有一些相關的連續性的計畫那是不是可以把這些相關的申請中的一些計畫跟核定的相關數據在一個月以內提供到我們辦公室讓我們來做參考好不好?\n\n15\n00:05:37,831 --> 00:06:02,888\n接下來就是說我想講到永續AI是一個非常關鍵的角色那2020年呢委員委託了資層聯合會計事務所來研究那結果顯示在他們進行的農業水能源和交通運輸等四個領域他們如果使用在AI那是可以解決很不錯的一個環境問題到2030年估計可以為全球經濟貢獻達\n\n16\n00:06:04,989 --> 00:06:05,249\n﹚張雅琳\n\n17\n00:06:27,721 --> 00:06:43,832\n謝謝委員我們明年有一個新增的計畫就是智慧科技大南方產業生態系我們就是因為過去我們比較注重在硬體的研發那未來我們在AI的領域在解決我們人類社會面臨的問題還有國內產業發展的問題在賴總統提到均衡台灣\n\n18\n00:06:49,115 --> 00:07:15,403\n的這樣的這個國政願景之下我們利用我們高科技產業已經非常好的這個技術來協助我們其他傳統的產業百光百業希望能夠共同發展所以我們在明年的預算裡面有適當的調整我們AI的預算除了增加我們的這個算力的建置之外我們也鼓勵在我們其他部會的這個預算的編列上面結合需求端應用端的這個產業\n\n19\n00:07:16,503 --> 00:07:16,523\n謝謝委員：\n\n20\n00:07:45,676 --> 00:08:11,673\n再來就是說因為其實我剛剛有提到我們科學技術白皮書這部分我也蠻想跟主委來討論一下就是說我們日本其實鄰近的國家日本他們也有這個科學技術革新白皮書那他們開宗明義就已經提到了人工智慧帶來的科技創新變革那我們也有科學技術白皮書可是我們的科學技術白皮書在112年發定的時候其實通篇只有提到18次AI\n\n21\n00:08:13,514 --> 00:08:39,077\n這個比例跟我們現在講AI及國力似乎有點落差那根據科學技術基本法第10條有規定政府應該考量國家發展的方向社會需求情形以及區域均衡發展每4年訂定國家科學技術發展計畫作為擬定科學技術政策與推動科學技術研究發展之依據並經全國科學技術會議討論後由行政院核定\n\n22\n00:08:39,998 --> 00:08:56,439\n所以說新的科學技術白皮書是在全國技術會議上面的共識基礎上來盤點台灣當前的問題與挑戰那我想問一下這個110從主委的視角來看112年的版本是否跟著上我們科技發展的腳步呢?\n\n23\n00:08:57,253 --> 00:09:21,260\n最近因為AI的發展就是非常的快速所以的確我也覺得說我們也到了時間要去開始去構思怎麼樣去修訂這個科技的白皮書那我們今年會年底會全科會年底會召開12月我們年底會全國科技會議我們會詳盡討論這個議題然後接下來我們就會逐步來修訂這個白皮書\n\n24\n00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:42,483\n對,但是我想請教主委,就是說我們現在的法規是定4年才一次,可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂,那如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話,我們是不是應該要來修法呢?因為4年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊。\n\n25\n00:09:43,971 --> 00:09:57,997\n委員的建議很好我不知道這是不是牽涉到我們的法規有沒有限制這個報告委員那個全科會跟全國的科學技術法案計畫是定在科技基本法裡面對的\n\n26\n00:09:59,598 --> 00:10:13,479\n但是那個科技白皮書上面就有特別提到說我們兩年會滾動修正一次所以以現在台灣目前的制度我們是兩年來滾動的檢討修正一次但是我想我們因為我想臨近日本是一年我們有沒有考慮\n\n27\n00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:14,920\n最後一個問題就是說\n\n28\n00:10:35,769 --> 00:11:01,214\n因為剛剛我們大概一直在講AI啊科技的技術啊所以我想就是大家剛剛主委也有提到不能只有focus在技術我們還有其他的領域也需要去顧及所以在最近的一個天下未來城市呢他推出了一個AI20的專題報導其中這個中研院人社院的研究員蔡宗翰他就提到了當前台灣社會對於AI的認知似乎出現了偏差\n\n29\n00:11:02,614 --> 00:11:14,109\nAI熱潮促使學生爭相報考志工系．可是卻傳出了人文科系．的申請報告率是掛0的那大家就說因為是AI大家都要報志工系\n\n30\n00:11:16,772 --> 00:11:45,709\n我自己之前也去在這個7月的時候呢有一個中研院舉行的一個院士會議我也去拜訪了孔祥仲院士我想他應該算是AI領域非常頂尖的一個翹楚他其實有跟我談到就是人文社會人才將會清晰的刻畫台灣文化和社會價值觀甚至可以想像台灣5年10年之後的社會樣貌我們應該重視人才培育這樣子人設的人才培育來將台灣打造成為一個AI民主文化中心\n\n31\n00:11:46,389 --> 00:12:06,314\n我認為AI的發展需要有一些框架需要一些倫理所以非常需要人文社會科學的那我就想直接請問我們剛剛有講會做一個人文的一個年底會有一個科學技術會議要召開我們有沒有邀請相關的人文產學跟學研的代表來出席呢\n\n32\n00:12:09,984 --> 00:12:23,469\n總統委員一定有因為我們現在其實全科會的議題裡面還包括了均衡社會創新經濟智慧科研跟淨零永續在所有的東西討論的時候我們都會請社會學者一起來參與\n\n33\n00:12:25,170 --> 00:12:46,541\n我可以再用一點點時間就好了可是我也發現我們在全國科技動態調查的研究人力統計我們在2017年還有10%的研發人力是在人設院可是我們到現在只剩下8.7%人數的確在科技的這個動態研究人力上面的確是下降的所以我認為我們應該鼓勵相關的人\n\n34\n00:12:47,261 --> 00:12:49,122\n請主委在一個月內提出相關的規劃讓我們來做一些參考好謝謝委員謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢吳主委請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4233\t6416\t謝謝主席 有請國科會主委有請吳主委張委員好\n16141\t40637\t總統府成立了國家氣候變遷對策委員會委員會討論設定的七大主軸裡面永續就包含了三項永續綠生活、綠色永續金融以及國土永續調適任性總統也在委員會上面去強調永續才是朝野共同的目標主委您也是國家氣候變遷對策委員會的委員相信您一定了解永續的重要性\n41557\t64971\t行政院在112年2月21日合訂的一個科學技術白皮書裡面也有提到以前瞻創新民主包容任性永續作為台灣邁向2035科技發展遠景透過科技力量來驅動國家整體的一個轉型所以發現就是永續其實在台灣是非常非常重要不管是在科技上面或是氣候變遷上面\n66041\t85958\t但是就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都提到就是說﹖很多的學者有發起這個永續科研的聯署書提及國科會在自然科學及永續研究發展處有意要去調整那剛剛國科會主委您也做了非常多的說明所以我想要了解就是說因為原本在9月16日有去澄清說沒有這個更動的這個規劃\n89803\t107546\t委員會議預計在一個月內會來召開學門會議所以我想要了解現在我們已經有一些初步的溝通了嗎有了解一些學者的想法有些掌握了嗎可不可以做個說明好請處長我先請處長好委員會委員好我們在一個月內溝通我們預計在10月1日10月2日10月9日分別跟這三個學門來進行溝通謝謝\n117846\t143388\t我希望就是說如果我們溝通之後是希望可以積極的去傾聽我們這個召集人的一些想法來尊重畢竟永續是非常重要的一個課題那其實我也想想就是說國科會在回應學界的訴求其實有一直強調永續科研和今年會逐年增加這兩項作為但是因為學界代表還是會認為這樣的說法過於的簡單化和表面化無法有效的緩解他們的疑慮\n144409\t150728\t所以雖然經費的增加非常重要但是僅靠補助並沒有辦法解決學術發展的一些核心問題\n152625\t171132\t那我們就繼續講要補助這件事情根據自由時報的報導國科會回應瞭解社會的發展問題需要不同專業領域的對話來形成解決方案所以會長期的來支持支持永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域相關學門的研究那2023年這三個領域跨領域的學門經費是4.8億明年我們有規劃了5.2億也就是剛剛\n180416\t195548\t主委一直強調的我們投入的資源是有逐年成長的但是我也發現了在國科會的補助研究計畫永續發展研究的領域這個研究計畫的通過率卻是逐年下降的從2016年我們還有56.6%到2024年只剩下30.1%\n203038\t203578\t在2024年合定﹖\n225851\t226191\t主席張雅琳\n243083\t260508\t和並到其他部門才會讓這個核定率很難通過主委要不要澄清說明一下是是謝謝委員提起這個議題其實不是表面上這樣看的結果我們其實第一我們5.2億增加這個預算其實幅度相當高這是我們在\n261488\t290365\t並列明年預算說早就編了不是因為這次事件我們早就編了那第二個計畫的核定數下降這個議題是因為我們逐年在編這個預算在核定計畫的時候是鼓勵多年期的研究是對學者是好的我們通過多年期的研究以後我們其實換算實質的通過率是到六成不是三成是到六成\n290845\t316886\t總體經費\n317125\t335950\t三個都有增加嗎?還是三個加總才是增加?三個都有增加。那請問一下就是說因為剛剛主委說你們有一些相關的連續性的計畫那是不是可以把這些相關的申請中的一些計畫跟核定的相關數據在一個月以內提供到我們辦公室讓我們來做參考好不好?\n337831\t362888\t接下來就是說我想講到永續AI是一個非常關鍵的角色那2020年呢委員委託了資層聯合會計事務所來研究那結果顯示在他們進行的農業水能源和交通運輸等四個領域他們如果使用在AI那是可以解決很不錯的一個環境問題到2030年估計可以為全球經濟貢獻達\n364989\t365249\t﹚張雅琳\n387721\t403832\t謝謝委員我們明年有一個新增的計畫就是智慧科技大南方產業生態系我們就是因為過去我們比較注重在硬體的研發那未來我們在AI的領域在解決我們人類社會面臨的問題還有國內產業發展的問題在賴總統提到均衡台灣\n409115\t435403\t的這樣的這個國政願景之下我們利用我們高科技產業已經非常好的這個技術來協助我們其他傳統的產業百光百業希望能夠共同發展所以我們在明年的預算裡面有適當的調整我們AI的預算除了增加我們的這個算力的建置之外我們也鼓勵在我們其他部會的這個預算的編列上面結合需求端應用端的這個產業\n436503\t436523\t謝謝委員：\n465676\t491673\t再來就是說因為其實我剛剛有提到我們科學技術白皮書這部分我也蠻想跟主委來討論一下就是說我們日本其實鄰近的國家日本他們也有這個科學技術革新白皮書那他們開宗明義就已經提到了人工智慧帶來的科技創新變革那我們也有科學技術白皮書可是我們的科學技術白皮書在112年發定的時候其實通篇只有提到18次AI\n493514\t519077\t這個比例跟我們現在講AI及國力似乎有點落差那根據科學技術基本法第10條有規定政府應該考量國家發展的方向社會需求情形以及區域均衡發展每4年訂定國家科學技術發展計畫作為擬定科學技術政策與推動科學技術研究發展之依據並經全國科學技術會議討論後由行政院核定\n519998\t536439\t所以說新的科學技術白皮書是在全國技術會議上面的共識基礎上來盤點台灣當前的問題與挑戰那我想問一下這個110從主委的視角來看112年的版本是否跟著上我們科技發展的腳步呢?\n537253\t561260\t最近因為AI的發展就是非常的快速所以的確我也覺得說我們也到了時間要去開始去構思怎麼樣去修訂這個科技的白皮書那我們今年會年底會全科會年底會召開12月我們年底會全國科技會議我們會詳盡討論這個議題然後接下來我們就會逐步來修訂這個白皮書\n566360\t582483\t對,但是我想請教主委,就是說我們現在的法規是定4年才一次,可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂,那如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話,我們是不是應該要來修法呢?因為4年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊。\n583971\t597997\t委員的建議很好我不知道這是不是牽涉到我們的法規有沒有限制這個報告委員那個全科會跟全國的科學技術法案計畫是定在科技基本法裡面對的\n599598\t613479\t但是那個科技白皮書上面就有特別提到說我們兩年會滾動修正一次所以以現在台灣目前的制度我們是兩年來滾動的檢討修正一次但是我想我們因為我想臨近日本是一年我們有沒有考慮\n614580\t614920\t最後一個問題就是說\n635769\t661214\t因為剛剛我們大概一直在講AI啊科技的技術啊所以我想就是大家剛剛主委也有提到不能只有focus在技術我們還有其他的領域也需要去顧及所以在最近的一個天下未來城市呢他推出了一個AI20的專題報導其中這個中研院人社院的研究員蔡宗翰他就提到了當前台灣社會對於AI的認知似乎出現了偏差\n662614\t674109\tAI 熱潮促使學生爭相報考志工系．可是卻傳出了人文科系．的申請報告率是掛0的那大家就說因為是AI大家都要報志工系\n676772\t705709\t我自己之前也去在這個7月的時候呢有一個中研院舉行的一個院士會議我也去拜訪了孔祥仲院士我想他應該算是AI領域非常頂尖的一個翹楚他其實有跟我談到就是人文社會人才將會清晰的刻畫台灣文化和社會價值觀甚至可以想像台灣5年10年之後的社會樣貌我們應該重視人才培育這樣子人設的人才培育來將台灣打造成為一個AI民主文化中心\n706389\t726314\t我認為AI的發展需要有一些框架需要一些倫理所以非常需要人文社會科學的那我就想直接請問我們剛剛有講會做一個人文的一個年底會有一個科學技術會議要召開我們有沒有邀請相關的人文產學跟學研的代表來出席呢\n729984\t743469\t總統委員一定有因為我們現在其實全科會的議題裡面還包括了均衡社會創新經濟智慧科研跟淨零永續在所有的東西討論的時候我們都會請社會學者一起來參與\n745170\t766541\t我可以再用一點點時間就好了可是我也發現我們在全國科技動態調查的研究人力統計我們在2017年還有10%的研發人力是在人設院可是我們到現在只剩下8.7%人數的確在科技的這個動態研究人力上面的確是下降的所以我認為我們應該鼓勵相關的人\n767261\t769122\t請主委在一個月內提出相關的規劃讓我們來做一些參考好 謝謝委員謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢吳主委請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請國科會主委有請吳主委張委員好\n總統府成立了國家氣候變遷對策委員會委員會討論設定的七大主軸裡面永續就包含了三項永續綠生活、綠色永續金融以及國土永續調適任性總統也在委員會上面去強調永續才是朝野共同的目標主委您也是國家氣候變遷對策委員會的委員相信您一定了解永續的重要性\n行政院在112年2月21日合訂的一個科學技術白皮書裡面也有提到以前瞻創新民主包容任性永續作為台灣邁向2035科技發展遠景透過科技力量來驅動國家整體的一個轉型所以發現就是永續其實在台灣是非常非常重要不管是在科技上面或是氣候變遷上面\n但是就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都提到就是說﹖很多的學者有發起這個永續科研的聯署書提及國科會在自然科學及永續研究發展處有意要去調整那剛剛國科會主委您也做了非常多的說明所以我想要了解就是說因為原本在9月16日有去澄清說沒有這個更動的這個規劃\n委員會議預計在一個月內會來召開學門會議所以我想要了解現在我們已經有一些初步的溝通了嗎有了解一些學者的想法有些掌握了嗎可不可以做個說明好請處長我先請處長好委員會委員好我們在一個月內溝通我們預計在10月1日10月2日10月9日分別跟這三個學門來進行溝通謝謝\n我希望就是說如果我們溝通之後是希望可以積極的去傾聽我們這個召集人的一些想法來尊重畢竟永續是非常重要的一個課題那其實我也想想就是說國科會在回應學界的訴求其實有一直強調永續科研和今年會逐年增加這兩項作為但是因為學界代表還是會認為這樣的說法過於的簡單化和表面化無法有效的緩解他們的疑慮\n所以雖然經費的增加非常重要但是僅靠補助並沒有辦法解決學術發展的一些核心問題\n那我們就繼續講要補助這件事情根據自由時報的報導國科會回應瞭解社會的發展問題需要不同專業領域的對話來形成解決方案所以會長期的來支持支持永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域相關學門的研究那2023年這三個領域跨領域的學門經費是4.8億明年我們有規劃了5.2億也就是剛剛\n主委一直強調的我們投入的資源是有逐年成長的但是我也發現了在國科會的補助研究計畫永續發展研究的領域這個研究計畫的通過率卻是逐年下降的從2016年我們還有56.6%到2024年只剩下30.1%\n在2024年合定﹖\n主席張雅琳\n和並到其他部門才會讓這個核定率很難通過主委要不要澄清說明一下是是謝謝委員提起這個議題其實不是表面上這樣看的結果我們其實第一我們5.2億增加這個預算其實幅度相當高這是我們在\n並列明年預算說早就編了不是因為這次事件我們早就編了那第二個計畫的核定數下降這個議題是因為我們逐年在編這個預算在核定計畫的時候是鼓勵多年期的研究是對學者是好的我們通過多年期的研究以後我們其實換算實質的通過率是到六成不是三成是到六成\n總體經費\n三個都有增加嗎?還是三個加總才是增加?三個都有增加。那請問一下就是說因為剛剛主委說你們有一些相關的連續性的計畫那是不是可以把這些相關的申請中的一些計畫跟核定的相關數據在一個月以內提供到我們辦公室讓我們來做參考好不好?\n接下來就是說我想講到永續AI是一個非常關鍵的角色那2020年呢委員委託了資層聯合會計事務所來研究那結果顯示在他們進行的農業水能源和交通運輸等四個領域他們如果使用在AI那是可以解決很不錯的一個環境問題到2030年估計可以為全球經濟貢獻達\n﹚張雅琳\n謝謝委員我們明年有一個新增的計畫就是智慧科技大南方產業生態系我們就是因為過去我們比較注重在硬體的研發那未來我們在AI的領域在解決我們人類社會面臨的問題還有國內產業發展的問題在賴總統提到均衡台灣\n的這樣的這個國政願景之下我們利用我們高科技產業已經非常好的這個技術來協助我們其他傳統的產業百光百業希望能夠共同發展所以我們在明年的預算裡面有適當的調整我們AI的預算除了增加我們的這個算力的建置之外我們也鼓勵在我們其他部會的這個預算的編列上面結合需求端應用端的這個產業\n謝謝委員：\n再來就是說因為其實我剛剛有提到我們科學技術白皮書這部分我也蠻想跟主委來討論一下就是說我們日本其實鄰近的國家日本他們也有這個科學技術革新白皮書那他們開宗明義就已經提到了人工智慧帶來的科技創新變革那我們也有科學技術白皮書可是我們的科學技術白皮書在112年發定的時候其實通篇只有提到18次AI\n這個比例跟我們現在講AI及國力似乎有點落差那根據科學技術基本法第10條有規定政府應該考量國家發展的方向社會需求情形以及區域均衡發展每4年訂定國家科學技術發展計畫作為擬定科學技術政策與推動科學技術研究發展之依據並經全國科學技術會議討論後由行政院核定\n所以說新的科學技術白皮書是在全國技術會議上面的共識基礎上來盤點台灣當前的問題與挑戰那我想問一下這個110從主委的視角來看112年的版本是否跟著上我們科技發展的腳步呢?\n最近因為AI的發展就是非常的快速所以的確我也覺得說我們也到了時間要去開始去構思怎麼樣去修訂這個科技的白皮書那我們今年會年底會全科會年底會召開12月我們年底會全國科技會議我們會詳盡討論這個議題然後接下來我們就會逐步來修訂這個白皮書\n對,但是我想請教主委,就是說我們現在的法規是定4年才一次,可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂,那如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話,我們是不是應該要來修法呢?因為4年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊。\n委員的建議很好我不知道這是不是牽涉到我們的法規有沒有限制這個報告委員那個全科會跟全國的科學技術法案計畫是定在科技基本法裡面對的\n但是那個科技白皮書上面就有特別提到說我們兩年會滾動修正一次所以以現在台灣目前的制度我們是兩年來滾動的檢討修正一次但是我想我們因為我想臨近日本是一年我們有沒有考慮\n最後一個問題就是說\n因為剛剛我們大概一直在講AI啊科技的技術啊所以我想就是大家剛剛主委也有提到不能只有focus在技術我們還有其他的領域也需要去顧及所以在最近的一個天下未來城市呢他推出了一個AI20的專題報導其中這個中研院人社院的研究員蔡宗翰他就提到了當前台灣社會對於AI的認知似乎出現了偏差\nAI 熱潮促使學生爭相報考志工系．可是卻傳出了人文科系．的申請報告率是掛0的那大家就說因為是AI大家都要報志工系\n我自己之前也去在這個7月的時候呢有一個中研院舉行的一個院士會議我也去拜訪了孔祥仲院士我想他應該算是AI領域非常頂尖的一個翹楚他其實有跟我談到就是人文社會人才將會清晰的刻畫台灣文化和社會價值觀甚至可以想像台灣5年10年之後的社會樣貌我們應該重視人才培育這樣子人設的人才培育來將台灣打造成為一個AI民主文化中心\n我認為AI的發展需要有一些框架需要一些倫理所以非常需要人文社會科學的那我就想直接請問我們剛剛有講會做一個人文的一個年底會有一個科學技術會議要召開我們有沒有邀請相關的人文產學跟學研的代表來出席呢\n總統委員一定有因為我們現在其實全科會的議題裡面還包括了均衡社會創新經濟智慧科研跟淨零永續在所有的東西討論的時候我們都會請社會學者一起來參與\n我可以再用一點點時間就好了可是我也發現我們在全國科技動態調查的研究人力統計我們在2017年還有10%的研發人力是在人設院可是我們到現在只剩下8.7%人數的確在科技的這個動態研究人力上面的確是下降的所以我認為我們應該鼓勵相關的人\n請主委在一個月內提出相關的規劃讓我們來做一些參考好 謝謝委員謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢吳主委請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.233 --> 00:06.416\n謝謝主席有請國科會主委有請吳主委張委員好\n\n00:16.141 --> 00:40.637\n總統府成立了國家氣候變遷對策委員會委員會討論設定的七大主軸裡面永續就包含了三項永續綠生活、綠色永續金融以及國土永續調適任性總統也在委員會上面去強調永續才是朝野共同的目標主委您也是國家氣候變遷對策委員會的委員相信您一定了解永續的重要性\n\n00:41.557 --> 01:04.971\n行政院在112年2月21日合訂的一個科學技術白皮書裡面也有提到以前瞻創新民主包容任性永續作為台灣邁向2035科技發展遠景透過科技力量來驅動國家整體的一個轉型所以發現就是永續其實在台灣是非常非常重要不管是在科技上面或是氣候變遷上面\n\n01:06.041 --> 01:25.958\n但是就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都提到就是說﹖很多的學者有發起這個永續科研的聯署書提及國科會在自然科學及永續研究發展處有意要去調整那剛剛國科會主委您也做了非常多的說明所以我想要了解就是說因為原本在9月16日有去澄清說沒有這個更動的這個規劃\n\n01:29.803 --> 01:47.546\n委員會議預計在一個月內會來召開學門會議所以我想要了解現在我們已經有一些初步的溝通了嗎有了解一些學者的想法有些掌握了嗎可不可以做個說明好請處長我先請處長好委員會委員好我們在一個月內溝通我們預計在10月1日10月2日10月9日分別跟這三個學門來進行溝通謝謝\n\n01:57.846 --> 02:23.388\n我希望就是說如果我們溝通之後是希望可以積極的去傾聽我們這個召集人的一些想法來尊重畢竟永續是非常重要的一個課題那其實我也想想就是說國科會在回應學界的訴求其實有一直強調永續科研和今年會逐年增加這兩項作為但是因為學界代表還是會認為這樣的說法過於的簡單化和表面化無法有效的緩解他們的疑慮\n\n02:24.409 --> 02:30.728\n所以雖然經費的增加非常重要但是僅靠補助並沒有辦法解決學術發展的一些核心問題\n\n02:32.625 --> 02:51.132\n那我們就繼續講要補助這件事情根據自由時報的報導國科會回應瞭解社會的發展問題需要不同專業領域的對話來形成解決方案所以會長期的來支持支持永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域相關學門的研究那2023年這三個領域跨領域的學門經費是4.8億明年我們有規劃了5.2億也就是剛剛\n\n03:00.416 --> 03:15.548\n主委一直強調的我們投入的資源是有逐年成長的但是我也發現了在國科會的補助研究計畫永續發展研究的領域這個研究計畫的通過率卻是逐年下降的從2016年我們還有56.6%到2024年只剩下30.1%\n\n03:23.038 --> 03:23.578\n在2024年合定﹖\n\n03:45.851 --> 03:46.191\n主席張雅琳\n\n04:03.083 --> 04:20.508\n和並到其他部門才會讓這個核定率很難通過主委要不要澄清說明一下是是謝謝委員提起這個議題其實不是表面上這樣看的結果我們其實第一我們5.2億增加這個預算其實幅度相當高這是我們在\n\n04:21.488 --> 04:50.365\n並列明年預算說早就編了不是因為這次事件我們早就編了那第二個計畫的核定數下降這個議題是因為我們逐年在編這個預算在核定計畫的時候是鼓勵多年期的研究是對學者是好的我們通過多年期的研究以後我們其實換算實質的通過率是到六成不是三成是到六成\n\n05:17.125 --> 05:35.950\n三個都有增加嗎?還是三個加總才是增加?三個都有增加。那請問一下就是說因為剛剛主委說你們有一些相關的連續性的計畫那是不是可以把這些相關的申請中的一些計畫跟核定的相關數據在一個月以內提供到我們辦公室讓我們來做參考好不好?\n\n05:37.831 --> 06:02.888\n接下來就是說我想講到永續AI是一個非常關鍵的角色那2020年呢委員委託了資層聯合會計事務所來研究那結果顯示在他們進行的農業水能源和交通運輸等四個領域他們如果使用在AI那是可以解決很不錯的一個環境問題到2030年估計可以為全球經濟貢獻達\n\n06:04.989 --> 06:05.249\n﹚張雅琳\n\n06:27.721 --> 06:43.832\n謝謝委員我們明年有一個新增的計畫就是智慧科技大南方產業生態系我們就是因為過去我們比較注重在硬體的研發那未來我們在AI的領域在解決我們人類社會面臨的問題還有國內產業發展的問題在賴總統提到均衡台灣\n\n06:49.115 --> 07:15.403\n的這樣的這個國政願景之下我們利用我們高科技產業已經非常好的這個技術來協助我們其他傳統的產業百光百業希望能夠共同發展所以我們在明年的預算裡面有適當的調整我們AI的預算除了增加我們的這個算力的建置之外我們也鼓勵在我們其他部會的這個預算的編列上面結合需求端應用端的這個產業\n\n07:16.503 --> 07:16.523\n謝謝委員：\n\n07:45.676 --> 08:11.673\n再來就是說因為其實我剛剛有提到我們科學技術白皮書這部分我也蠻想跟主委來討論一下就是說我們日本其實鄰近的國家日本他們也有這個科學技術革新白皮書那他們開宗明義就已經提到了人工智慧帶來的科技創新變革那我們也有科學技術白皮書可是我們的科學技術白皮書在112年發定的時候其實通篇只有提到18次AI\n\n08:13.514 --> 08:39.077\n這個比例跟我們現在講AI及國力似乎有點落差那根據科學技術基本法第10條有規定政府應該考量國家發展的方向社會需求情形以及區域均衡發展每4年訂定國家科學技術發展計畫作為擬定科學技術政策與推動科學技術研究發展之依據並經全國科學技術會議討論後由行政院核定\n\n08:39.998 --> 08:56.439\n所以說新的科學技術白皮書是在全國技術會議上面的共識基礎上來盤點台灣當前的問題與挑戰那我想問一下這個110從主委的視角來看112年的版本是否跟著上我們科技發展的腳步呢?\n\n08:57.253 --> 09:21.260\n最近因為AI的發展就是非常的快速所以的確我也覺得說我們也到了時間要去開始去構思怎麼樣去修訂這個科技的白皮書那我們今年會年底會全科會年底會召開12月我們年底會全國科技會議我們會詳盡討論這個議題然後接下來我們就會逐步來修訂這個白皮書\n\n09:26.360 --> 09:42.483\n對,但是我想請教主委,就是說我們現在的法規是定4年才一次,可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂,那如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話,我們是不是應該要來修法呢?因為4年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊。\n\n09:43.971 --> 09:57.997\n委員的建議很好我不知道這是不是牽涉到我們的法規有沒有限制這個報告委員那個全科會跟全國的科學技術法案計畫是定在科技基本法裡面對的\n\n09:59.598 --> 10:13.479\n但是那個科技白皮書上面就有特別提到說我們兩年會滾動修正一次所以以現在台灣目前的制度我們是兩年來滾動的檢討修正一次但是我想我們因為我想臨近日本是一年我們有沒有考慮\n\n10:14.580 --> 10:14.920\n最後一個問題就是說\n\n10:35.769 --> 11:01.214\n因為剛剛我們大概一直在講AI啊科技的技術啊所以我想就是大家剛剛主委也有提到不能只有focus在技術我們還有其他的領域也需要去顧及所以在最近的一個天下未來城市呢他推出了一個AI20的專題報導其中這個中研院人社院的研究員蔡宗翰他就提到了當前台灣社會對於AI的認知似乎出現了偏差\n\n11:02.614 --> 11:14.109\nAI熱潮促使學生爭相報考志工系．可是卻傳出了人文科系．的申請報告率是掛0的那大家就說因為是AI大家都要報志工系\n\n11:16.772 --> 11:45.709\n我自己之前也去在這個7月的時候呢有一個中研院舉行的一個院士會議我也去拜訪了孔祥仲院士我想他應該算是AI領域非常頂尖的一個翹楚他其實有跟我談到就是人文社會人才將會清晰的刻畫台灣文化和社會價值觀甚至可以想像台灣5年10年之後的社會樣貌我們應該重視人才培育這樣子人設的人才培育來將台灣打造成為一個AI民主文化中心\n\n11:46.389 --> 12:06.314\n我認為AI的發展需要有一些框架需要一些倫理所以非常需要人文社會科學的那我就想直接請問我們剛剛有講會做一個人文的一個年底會有一個科學技術會議要召開我們有沒有邀請相關的人文產學跟學研的代表來出席呢\n\n12:09.984 --> 12:23.469\n總統委員一定有因為我們現在其實全科會的議題裡面還包括了均衡社會創新經濟智慧科研跟淨零永續在所有的東西討論的時候我們都會請社會學者一起來參與\n\n12:25.170 --> 12:46.541\n我可以再用一點點時間就好了可是我也發現我們在全國科技動態調查的研究人力統計我們在2017年還有10%的研發人力是在人設院可是我們到現在只剩下8.7%人數的確在科技的這個動態研究人力上面的確是下降的所以我認為我們應該鼓勵相關的人\n\n12:47.261 --> 12:49.122\n請主委在一個月內提出相關的規劃讓我們來做一些參考好謝謝委員謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢吳主委請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.233,"end":6.416,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國科會主委有請吳主委張委員好"},{"start":16.141,"end":40.637,"text":"總統府成立了國家氣候變遷對策委員會委員會討論設定的七大主軸裡面永續就包含了三項永續綠生活、綠色永續金融以及國土永續調適任性總統也在委員會上面去強調永續才是朝野共同的目標主委您也是國家氣候變遷對策委員會的委員相信您一定了解永續的重要性"},{"start":41.557,"end":64.971,"text":"行政院在112年2月21日合訂的一個科學技術白皮書裡面也有提到以前瞻創新民主包容任性永續作為台灣邁向2035科技發展遠景透過科技力量來驅動國家整體的一個轉型所以發現就是永續其實在台灣是非常非常重要不管是在科技上面或是氣候變遷上面"},{"start":66.041,"end":85.958,"text":"但是就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都提到就是說﹖很多的學者有發起這個永續科研的聯署書提及國科會在自然科學及永續研究發展處有意要去調整那剛剛國科會主委您也做了非常多的說明所以我想要了解就是說因為原本在9月16日有去澄清說沒有這個更動的這個規劃"},{"start":89.803,"end":107.546,"text":"委員會議預計在一個月內會來召開學門會議所以我想要了解現在我們已經有一些初步的溝通了嗎有了解一些學者的想法有些掌握了嗎可不可以做個說明好請處長我先請處長好委員會委員好我們在一個月內溝通我們預計在10月1日10月2日10月9日分別跟這三個學門來進行溝通謝謝"},{"start":117.846,"end":143.388,"text":"我希望就是說如果我們溝通之後是希望可以積極的去傾聽我們這個召集人的一些想法來尊重畢竟永續是非常重要的一個課題那其實我也想想就是說國科會在回應學界的訴求其實有一直強調永續科研和今年會逐年增加這兩項作為但是因為學界代表還是會認為這樣的說法過於的簡單化和表面化無法有效的緩解他們的疑慮"},{"start":144.409,"end":150.728,"text":"所以雖然經費的增加非常重要但是僅靠補助並沒有辦法解決學術發展的一些核心問題"},{"start":152.625,"end":171.132,"text":"那我們就繼續講要補助這件事情根據自由時報的報導國科會回應瞭解社會的發展問題需要不同專業領域的對話來形成解決方案所以會長期的來支持支持永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域相關學門的研究那2023年這三個領域跨領域的學門經費是4.8億明年我們有規劃了5.2億也就是剛剛"},{"start":180.416,"end":195.548,"text":"主委一直強調的我們投入的資源是有逐年成長的但是我也發現了在國科會的補助研究計畫永續發展研究的領域這個研究計畫的通過率卻是逐年下降的從2016年我們還有56.6%到2024年只剩下30.1%"},{"start":203.038,"end":203.578,"text":"在2024年合定﹖"},{"start":225.851,"end":226.191,"text":"主席張雅琳"},{"start":243.083,"end":260.508,"text":"和並到其他部門才會讓這個核定率很難通過主委要不要澄清說明一下是是謝謝委員提起這個議題其實不是表面上這樣看的結果我們其實第一我們5.2億增加這個預算其實幅度相當高這是我們在"},{"start":261.488,"end":290.365,"text":"並列明年預算說早就編了不是因為這次事件我們早就編了那第二個計畫的核定數下降這個議題是因為我們逐年在編這個預算在核定計畫的時候是鼓勵多年期的研究是對學者是好的我們通過多年期的研究以後我們其實換算實質的通過率是到六成不是三成是到六成"},{"start":290.845,"end":316.886,"text":"總體經費"},{"start":317.125,"end":335.95,"text":"三個都有增加嗎?還是三個加總才是增加?三個都有增加。那請問一下就是說因為剛剛主委說你們有一些相關的連續性的計畫那是不是可以把這些相關的申請中的一些計畫跟核定的相關數據在一個月以內提供到我們辦公室讓我們來做參考好不好?"},{"start":337.831,"end":362.888,"text":"接下來就是說我想講到永續AI是一個非常關鍵的角色那2020年呢委員委託了資層聯合會計事務所來研究那結果顯示在他們進行的農業水能源和交通運輸等四個領域他們如果使用在AI那是可以解決很不錯的一個環境問題到2030年估計可以為全球經濟貢獻達"},{"start":364.989,"end":365.249,"text":"﹚張雅琳"},{"start":387.721,"end":403.832,"text":"謝謝委員我們明年有一個新增的計畫就是智慧科技大南方產業生態系我們就是因為過去我們比較注重在硬體的研發那未來我們在AI的領域在解決我們人類社會面臨的問題還有國內產業發展的問題在賴總統提到均衡台灣"},{"start":409.115,"end":435.403,"text":"的這樣的這個國政願景之下我們利用我們高科技產業已經非常好的這個技術來協助我們其他傳統的產業百光百業希望能夠共同發展所以我們在明年的預算裡面有適當的調整我們AI的預算除了增加我們的這個算力的建置之外我們也鼓勵在我們其他部會的這個預算的編列上面結合需求端應用端的這個產業"},{"start":436.503,"end":436.523,"text":"謝謝委員："},{"start":465.676,"end":491.673,"text":"再來就是說因為其實我剛剛有提到我們科學技術白皮書這部分我也蠻想跟主委來討論一下就是說我們日本其實鄰近的國家日本他們也有這個科學技術革新白皮書那他們開宗明義就已經提到了人工智慧帶來的科技創新變革那我們也有科學技術白皮書可是我們的科學技術白皮書在112年發定的時候其實通篇只有提到18次AI"},{"start":493.514,"end":519.077,"text":"這個比例跟我們現在講AI及國力似乎有點落差那根據科學技術基本法第10條有規定政府應該考量國家發展的方向社會需求情形以及區域均衡發展每4年訂定國家科學技術發展計畫作為擬定科學技術政策與推動科學技術研究發展之依據並經全國科學技術會議討論後由行政院核定"},{"start":519.998,"end":536.439,"text":"所以說新的科學技術白皮書是在全國技術會議上面的共識基礎上來盤點台灣當前的問題與挑戰那我想問一下這個110從主委的視角來看112年的版本是否跟著上我們科技發展的腳步呢?"},{"start":537.253,"end":561.26,"text":"最近因為AI的發展就是非常的快速所以的確我也覺得說我們也到了時間要去開始去構思怎麼樣去修訂這個科技的白皮書那我們今年會年底會全科會年底會召開12月我們年底會全國科技會議我們會詳盡討論這個議題然後接下來我們就會逐步來修訂這個白皮書"},{"start":566.36,"end":582.483,"text":"對,但是我想請教主委,就是說我們現在的法規是定4年才一次,可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂,那如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話,我們是不是應該要來修法呢?因為4年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊。"},{"start":583.971,"end":597.997,"text":"委員的建議很好我不知道這是不是牽涉到我們的法規有沒有限制這個報告委員那個全科會跟全國的科學技術法案計畫是定在科技基本法裡面對的"},{"start":599.598,"end":613.479,"text":"但是那個科技白皮書上面就有特別提到說我們兩年會滾動修正一次所以以現在台灣目前的制度我們是兩年來滾動的檢討修正一次但是我想我們因為我想臨近日本是一年我們有沒有考慮"},{"start":614.58,"end":614.92,"text":"最後一個問題就是說"},{"start":635.769,"end":661.214,"text":"因為剛剛我們大概一直在講AI啊科技的技術啊所以我想就是大家剛剛主委也有提到不能只有focus在技術我們還有其他的領域也需要去顧及所以在最近的一個天下未來城市呢他推出了一個AI20的專題報導其中這個中研院人社院的研究員蔡宗翰他就提到了當前台灣社會對於AI的認知似乎出現了偏差"},{"start":662.614,"end":674.109,"text":"AI 熱潮促使學生爭相報考志工系．可是卻傳出了人文科系．的申請報告率是掛0的那大家就說因為是AI大家都要報志工系"},{"start":676.772,"end":705.709,"text":"我自己之前也去在這個7月的時候呢有一個中研院舉行的一個院士會議我也去拜訪了孔祥仲院士我想他應該算是AI領域非常頂尖的一個翹楚他其實有跟我談到就是人文社會人才將會清晰的刻畫台灣文化和社會價值觀甚至可以想像台灣5年10年之後的社會樣貌我們應該重視人才培育這樣子人設的人才培育來將台灣打造成為一個AI民主文化中心"},{"start":706.389,"end":726.314,"text":"我認為AI的發展需要有一些框架需要一些倫理所以非常需要人文社會科學的那我就想直接請問我們剛剛有講會做一個人文的一個年底會有一個科學技術會議要召開我們有沒有邀請相關的人文產學跟學研的代表來出席呢"},{"start":729.984,"end":743.469,"text":"總統委員一定有因為我們現在其實全科會的議題裡面還包括了均衡社會創新經濟智慧科研跟淨零永續在所有的東西討論的時候我們都會請社會學者一起來參與"},{"start":745.17,"end":766.541,"text":"我可以再用一點點時間就好了可是我也發現我們在全國科技動態調查的研究人力統計我們在2017年還有10%的研發人力是在人設院可是我們到現在只剩下8.7%人數的確在科技的這個動態研究人力上面的確是下降的所以我認為我們應該鼓勵相關的人"},{"start":767.261,"end":769.122,"text":"請主委在一個月內提出相關的規劃讓我們來做一些參考好 謝謝委員謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢吳主委請回"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:16:25 - 11:29:30","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":154984,"gazette":{"lineno":769,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時16分）謝謝主席，有請國科會主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：張委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：主委好。總統府成立了國家氣候變遷對策委員會，委員會討論設定的七大主軸裡面，永續就包含了3項：永續綠生活、綠色永續金融以及國土永續調適韌性。總統也在委員會上面強調永續才是朝野共同的目標，主委也是這個國家氣候變遷對策委員會的委員，相信你一定了解永續的重要性。","行政院在112年2月21號核定的科學技術白皮書裡面也有提到以前瞻創新、民主包容、韌性永續作為臺灣邁向2035科技發展遠景，透過科技力量來驅動國家整體的轉型，所以發現永續在臺灣其實非常非常重要，不管是在科技上面或是氣候變遷上面。但就像剛剛前面有很多的委員都有提到，很多學者有發起永續科研的連署書，提及國科會自然科學及永續研究發展處有意去調整，剛剛國科會主委也做了非常多的說明，所以我想要了解，因為原本9月16號時有去澄清沒有更動的規劃，也預計在1個月內會來召開學門會議，所以我想要了解現在我們已經有一些初步溝通了嗎？有了解一些學者的想法、有一些掌握了嗎？可不可以做個說明？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，請處長，我先請處長。"],["賴處長明治：委員好，我們在一個月內溝通，預計在10月1號、10月2號、10月9號分別跟這3個學門來進行溝通，謝謝。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我希望我們溝通之後，可以積極的去傾聽、尊重各個召集人的一些想法，畢竟永續是非常重要的一個課題。我也曾經想過國科會在回應學界的訴求，其實有一直強調永續科研和今年會逐年增加這兩項作為，但是因為學界代表還是認為這樣的說法過於的簡單化和表面化，無法有效的緩解他們的疑慮，雖然經費的增加非常重要，但是僅靠補助並沒有辦法解決學術發展的一些核心問題。","我們就繼續講到補助這件事情，根據自由時報的報導，國科會回應了解社會的發展問題，需要不同專業領域的對話來形成解決方案，所以會長期的來支持永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域相關學門的研究。2023年這3個跨領域的學門經費是4.8億，明年我們有規劃了5.2億，也就是剛剛主委一直強調的，我們投入的資源是有逐年成長的，但是我也發現了在國科會的補助研究計畫中永續發展研究的領域的研究計畫通過率，卻是逐年下降的，從2016年我們還有56.6%，到2024年只剩下30.1%，相較我們整體合計的整體核定通過率是46.5%，自然處總體平均也都有達到50.7%，所以其實我們在永續發展研究的核定率是相對低的。","再來，我們來看金額部分，2024年核定的金額也是創下2014年以來最低，只有9,200萬，所以剛剛雖然主委說整體經費是有提升的，但是我們可以看到經費在這個領域下面卻是往下掉的，核定率也是往下掉的，有學者說，是因為要合併到其他部門才會讓這個核定率很難通過，主委要不要澄清說明一下？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝委員提起這個議題，其實不是表面上這樣看的結果，第一，增加5.2億這個預算其實幅度相當高，我們在編列明年預算的時候早就編了，不是因為這次的事件，我們早就編了。"],["張委員雅琳：我理解，我理解，但是我的意思是……"],["吳主任委員誠文：第二個，這個計畫的核定數下降的議題，是因為我們逐年編訂這個預算、在核定計畫的時候是鼓勵多年期的研究，對學者是好的，我們通過多年期的研究以後，其實換算的實質通過率是到六成，不是三成，是到六成。再來關於新進的學者，我們都有保障他們的計畫，所以其實沒有委員顧慮的問題啦！我們在這個3個學門裡面並不會比其他的學門核定率還要低，並沒有。"],["張委員雅琳：好，所以我想確認一下，聽起來主委說我們在永續、防災、空間資訊，如果是連續性的加起來，我們的總體經費3個都有增加嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：都有增加。"],["張委員雅琳：是3個加總才是增加？"],["吳主任委員誠文：都有增加。"],["張委員雅琳：3個都有增加嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["張委員雅琳：好。因為剛剛主委說你們有一些相關的、連續性的計畫，是不是可以把這些相關申請中的一些計畫跟核定的相關數據，在一個月以內提供到我們辦公室，讓我們來做參考，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["張委員雅琳：再來，講到永續AI是一個非常關鍵的角色，2020年微軟委託了資誠聯合會計師事務所來研究，結果顯示，他們針對農業、水、能源和交通運輸等四個領域，如果可以很不錯地運用AI解決這個環境問題，到2030年估計可以為全球經濟貢獻達5.2兆美元，可以增加4.4%的GDP，可以增加3,000萬個工作機會，可以降低4%總溫室氣體排放量。","我想問一下，國科會在AI世代，看起來AI導入的效果會非常好，我們有沒有一些相關的規劃來幫臺灣實踐一個永續的未來，你可不可以具體的簡單說明？"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員，我們明年有一個新增的計畫，就是智慧科技大南方產業生態系，因為過去我們比較注重在硬體的研發，未來我們在AI的領域，在解決人類社會面臨的問題還有國內產業發展的問題，在賴總統提到均衡臺灣這樣的國政願景之下，我們利用高科技產業已經非常好的技術來協助我們其他傳統的產業，希望百工百業能夠共同發展，所以我們在明年的預算裡面有適當的調整AI的預算，除了增加算力的建置之外，我們也鼓勵其他部會在預算編列上面結合需求端、應用端的產業，跟我們的科技結合在一起，希望能夠發展出更多的……"],["張委員雅琳：了解，聽起來主委已經有一個詳細的規劃，這些規劃或是已經有些初步規劃，是不是也可以送到我們辦公室來做個參考？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，好，沒問題！"],["張委員雅琳：這個預算的話，我想剛剛吳沛憶委員也有呼籲，因為這對臺灣非常非常的重要，所以我也希望在野黨的立委可以儘快的讓這個預算送來委員會，讓我們可以儘快的審查。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["張委員雅琳：因為AI的競爭是分秒必爭的。","再來，我剛剛有提到我們的科學技術白皮書，這部分我也滿想跟主委來討論一下。我們鄰近的國家日本也有科學技術革新白皮書，他們開宗明義就已經提到了人工智慧帶來的科技創新變革，我們也有科學技術白皮書，可是我們的科學技術白皮書在112年研訂的時候，其實通篇只有提到18次AI，這個比例跟我們現在講AI即國力似乎有點落差。根據科學技術基本法第十條規定，政府應考量國家發展方向、社會需求情形及區域均衡發展，每四年訂定國家科學技術發展計畫，作為擬訂科學技術政策與推動科學技術研究發展之依據，並經全國科學技術會議討論後，由行政院核定。所以說，新的科學技術白皮書是在全國技術會議上的共識基礎上來盤點臺灣當前的問題與挑戰，我想問一下，從主委的視角來看，112年的版本是否跟得上我們科技發展的腳步呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：最近因為AI的發展非常的快速，所以的確我也覺得我們也到了時間要開始去構思怎麼樣修訂這個科技白皮書，我們今年年底全科會……"],["張委員雅琳：年底會召開？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們年底12月會有全國科技會議，我們會詳盡討論這個議題，然後接下來我們就會逐步來修訂這個白皮書。"],["張委員雅琳：對，但是我想請教主委的就是，我們現在的法規是每四年才訂定一次，可是我知道鄰近的國家是每年都有去修訂，如果AI的發展是這麼的快速的話，我們是不是應該要來修法？因為四年實在是跟不上現在發展的腳步啊！主委您的看法呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員的建議很好，我不知道這是不是牽涉到我們的法規有沒有限制這個。"],["蔡處長妙慈：報告委員，全科會跟全國的科學技術發展計畫是在科技基本法裡面訂定的，但是科技白皮書上面就有特別提到我們兩年會滾動修正一次，所以以現在臺灣目前的制度，我們是兩年就滾動檢討修正一次。"],["張委員雅琳：因為鄰近的日本是一年，我們有沒有考慮用一年的方式？我覺得可以回去討論一下啦，我們是不是可以用一年，因為畢竟你看，去年才剛ChatGPT，現在整個都已經世界競爭的超級快速了，如果我們再用兩年，可能會有點跟不上，所以我希望主委可以回去研議一下，是不是可以以一年為基礎來去提升臺灣的競爭力。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["張委員雅琳：最後一個問題，剛剛我們一直在講AI、科技的技術，可是剛剛主委也有提到，不能只focus在技術，我們還有其他的領域也需要去顧及。在最近的天下未來城市有推出一個AI20的專題報導，其中中研院人社院的研究員蔡宗翰就提到了，當前臺灣社會對AI的認知似乎出現了偏差。AI熱潮促使學生爭相報考資工系，卻傳出人文科系申請入學報到率掛零。大家就說是因為AI，所以大家都要報資工系。","另外，之前在7月的時候有一個中研院舉行的院士會議，我也去拜訪了孔祥重院士，我想他應該算是AI領域非常頂尖的一個翹楚，他其實有跟我談到人文社會人才將會清晰的刻劃臺灣文化和社會價值觀，甚至可以想像臺灣五年、十年之後的社會樣貌，我們應該重視這類的人才培育，來將臺灣打造成為一個AI民主文化中心。我認為AI的發展需要有一些框架，需要一些倫理，所以非常需要人文社會科學，我就想直接請問，我們剛剛有講到年底會有一個科學技術會議要召開，我們有沒有邀請相關人文的產、學、研代表來出席呢？"],["蔡處長妙慈：報告委員，一定有，因為我們現在全科會的議題裡面還包括了均衡社會、創新經濟、智慧科研跟淨零永續，這所有的東西在討論的時候，我們都會請社會學者一起來參與。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我再占用一點點時間就好了。可是我也發現我們的全國科技動態調查研究人力統計的數據顯示，我們在2017年還有10%的研發人力是在人社院，可是我們到現在只剩下8.7%，人數在科技的研究人力上面的確是下降的，所以我認為我們應該鼓勵相關人文社會科學領域的人才來投入專業的一些科技研發的活動。是不是可以請主委在一個月內提出相關的規劃，讓我們來做一些參考？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢，吳主委請回。","再來請林宜瑾委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}