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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 432.11, \"end\": 432.19, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 432.19, \"end\": 432.27, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 432.27, \"end\": 432.551, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 432.551, \"end\": 432.631, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 432.631, \"end\": 432.651, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,417 --> 00:00:12,212\n請洪孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請李主委請李主委\n\n2\n00:00:20,246 --> 00:00:38,311\n主委好主委我想很多民眾以及本席以及委員都很關心這個外送平台的整併合併事件然後併購案件那我想先確認一下因為上午你也回答相關是說他們是在今年5月有送件是不是那5月30號就已經要求他們補件\n\n3\n00:00:39,651 --> 00:01:06,409\n那到目前為止都還沒有補件他有陸續補正但是還有一些不清楚的部分陸續補所以陸續補正陸續補但是一直我們通知補正就是他補來那我們再看一看有些需要補正我們陸續要求他補正那我想請教是我們公平會沒有把他需要補期的所有資料一次跟他講清楚還是說他們是慢慢拖就是今天送一個明天送一個\n\n4\n00:01:06,969 --> 00:01:09,692\n我們一般來講過去到現在法令規定我們這樣子的一個審理案件最長我們允許多久的補件期間\n\n5\n00:01:21,189 --> 00:01:46,857\n我們沒有這個限定補正的期間那補件完畢正式受理我們有這個審查的法定期間是審查法定時間所以到目前為止都還沒有算因為補件期間每個企業大小補件的情形不一致所以我們盡量讓公司有補件的機會這個文件越齊備我們的這個審查品質才能夠做審理\n\n6\n00:01:48,297 --> 00:02:09,072\n好那之前有提到是說會承諾要開公聽會或是相關來去了解我們不管是產業面本席之前也提過嘛就說這外送平台整併無最重要是我們要看到的是餐廳業者能不能因此而保障他的權益外送員能不能保障權益以及消費者三方面\n\n7\n00:02:09,853 --> 00:02:37,449\n那這個公聽會什麼時候會開始我們公聽會已經開了北中南東全部都開了那除了這個立法院委員也很關心有開公聽會委員有開委員的部分但是公平會本身公平會從6月開始就開始展開了北中南東那目前大家的一個消息跟訊息大家的這個政法意見都有都有原則上是譬如說\n\n8\n00:02:39,291 --> 00:02:56,584\n外送員的關切消費者的關切還有餐廳的關切這一部分意見都有了那所以是不是就我們大家的瞭解嘛最主要大家還是希望是說能夠保障這三方面的權益嘛外送平台在這中間當作是一個橋樑但最主要他是串聯\n\n9\n00:02:57,845 --> 00:03:24,876\n餐廳消費者以及外送員三方面的一個權益所以說是不是能夠要保障這三方面的權益不要因為說他們這樣的一個診病而有所受損這才是我們公平會的重點我們的審查重點是從這個競爭交易秩序的改變來看那當然您提到的外送員消費者平台的這些都是考量因素但是我們最終還是要看整個結合的經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益\n\n10\n00:03:26,377 --> 00:03:53,150\n提高價格的能力會不會跟其他業者聯合的可能性還有消費者店家跟外送員跟他談判的能力是不是有什麼樣的改變會綜合評估所以你這樣講那不就是很明顯了嗎因為現在我們也看到過去有名的錢櫃好樂迪的一個合併到時候公平會還是不允許嘛是不是那錢櫃跟好樂迪他們合併他們最後加起來市佔率有多少\n\n11\n00:03:53,649 --> 00:03:54,690\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n12\n00:04:17,216 --> 00:04:38,795\n我想你一定會這樣講啦但是本席要提醒啦其實最重點在於是國際社會裡面最近這一段時間有沒有去找說國際社會裡面其他國家有這個外送平台的一個診病的一個案例其他國家是有啦譬如說在韓國在其他國家有那我想每個國家的情況是\n\n13\n00:04:39,535 --> 00:05:05,391\n所以有些國家是有成功有些國家是沒有成功嗎國家會要求做一些這個條件負條件情況是不一樣是所以其實主委本席的重點還是強調啊為什麼我們會點出來就是因為過去到現在我們已經很關心而更重要的是本席也認為你既然公平會現在要做這個審查你也講到了其實未來的方向其實還是希望是市場能夠健全的\n\n14\n00:05:05,751 --> 00:05:06,071\n委員會主任委員會主席\n\n15\n00:05:23,971 --> 00:05:40,456\n我們也都有徵詢他們的意見所以說未來你們在做審查的時候是不是幾個行政部門的部分也應該都要同時的納入而不是只是聽委員的聲音我們跨部會的意見都會一起呈現\n\n16\n00:05:41,876 --> 00:06:01,650\n讓委員去了解那本席也說啊本席現在跟幾個委員我們都共同希望能夠推動外送專法的一個訂立為什麼因為不管他合併與否啊外送專法其實才是真真正正能夠法制化並且讓很多我們有疑慮的地方\n\n17\n00:06:02,190 --> 00:06:30,403\n包含是說他即便是他們沒有合併但是兩家業者其實就算是這個市場的一個一二名也算是市佔率非常高如果兩家有默契想要去做調整不管是減少外送員的一個權益或是提高這個餐廳的一個支出那其實某種無形當中市場也都很容易被壟斷所以外送專法才是能夠真真正正保障並且訂立一些最基本的法制的一個門檻\n\n18\n00:06:31,741 --> 00:06:33,657\n主委針對這部分你有什麼想法\n\n19\n00:06:34,329 --> 00:07:03,329\n我想外送專法他可能涉及到非常多的面向那這個會應該是各方面去評估來決定是不是需要專法是啊但是本席現在要提醒的是說就公平會在審理這個合併案件的過程當中你們會有提出如果說未來真的有這個方向的話也有可能有提出一些限制的條件但限制的條件都不及一個法令的一個要求以及限制來著有保障\n\n20\n00:07:04,304 --> 00:07:12,651\n所以未來是不是本席以及我們幾個委員在提出所謂外送專法的時候也邀請公民會來表達意見主委這樣可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n417\t12212\t請洪孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請李主委請李主委\n20246\t38311\t主委好 主委我想很多民眾以及本席以及委員都很關心這個外送平台的整併合併事件然後併購案件那我想先確認一下因為上午你也回答相關是說他們是在今年5月有送件是不是那5月30號就已經要求他們補件\n39651\t66409\t那到目前為止都還沒有補件他有陸續補正但是還有一些不清楚的部分陸續補所以陸續補正陸續補但是一直我們通知補正就是他補來那我們再看一看有些需要補正我們陸續要求他補正那我想請教是我們公平會沒有把他需要補期的所有資料一次跟他講清楚還是說他們是慢慢拖就是今天送一個明天送一個\n66969\t69692\t我們一般來講過去到現在法令規定我們這樣子的一個審理案件最長我們允許多久的補件期間\n81189\t106857\t我們沒有這個限定補正的期間那補件完畢正式受理我們有這個審查的法定期間是審查法定時間所以到目前為止都還沒有算因為補件期間每個企業大小補件的情形不一致所以我們盡量讓公司有補件的機會這個文件越齊備我們的這個審查品質才能夠做審理\n108297\t129072\t好那之前有提到是說會承諾要開公聽會或是相關來去了解我們不管是產業面本席之前也提過嘛就說這外送平台整併無最重要是我們要看到的是餐廳業者能不能因此而保障他的權益外送員能不能保障權益以及消費者三方面\n129853\t157449\t那這個公聽會什麼時候會開始我們公聽會已經開了北中南東全部都開了那除了這個立法院委員也很關心有開公聽會委員有開委員的部分但是公平會本身公平會從6月開始就開始展開了北中南東那目前大家的一個消息跟訊息大家的這個政法意見都有都有原則上是譬如說\n159291\t176584\t外送員的關切消費者的關切還有餐廳的關切這一部分意見都有了那所以是不是就我們大家的瞭解嘛最主要大家還是希望是說能夠保障這三方面的權益嘛外送平台在這中間當作是一個橋樑但最主要他是串聯\n177845\t204876\t餐廳消費者以及外送員三方面的一個權益所以說是不是能夠要保障這三方面的權益不要因為說他們這樣的一個診病而有所受損這才是我們公平會的重點我們的審查重點是從這個競爭交易秩序的改變來看那當然您提到的外送員消費者平台的這些都是考量因素但是我們最終還是要看整個結合的經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益\n206377\t233150\t提高價格的能力會不會跟其他業者聯合的可能性還有消費者店家跟外送員跟他談判的能力是不是有什麼樣的改變會綜合評估所以你這樣講那不就是很明顯了嗎因為現在我們也看到過去有名的錢櫃好樂迪的一個合併到時候公平會還是不允許嘛是不是那錢櫃跟好樂迪他們合併他們最後加起來市佔率有多少\n233649\t234690\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n257216\t278795\t我想你一定會這樣講啦但是本席要提醒啦其實最重點在於是國際社會裡面最近這一段時間有沒有去找說國際社會裡面其他國家有這個外送平台的一個診病的一個案例其他國家是有啦譬如說在韓國在其他國家有那我想每個國家的情況是\n279535\t305391\t所以有些國家是有成功 有些國家是沒有成功嗎國家會要求做一些這個條件 負條件 情況是不一樣是 所以其實 主委本席的重點還是強調啊為什麼我們會點出來就是因為過去到現在我們已經很關心而更重要的是本席也認為你既然公平會現在要做這個審查你也講到了其實未來的方向其實還是希望是市場能夠健全的\n305751\t306071\t委員會主任委員會主席\n323971\t340456\t我們也都有徵詢他們的意見所以說未來你們在做審查的時候是不是幾個行政部門的部分也應該都要同時的納入而不是只是聽委員的聲音我們跨部會的意見都會一起呈現\n341876\t361650\t讓委員去了解那本席也說啊本席現在跟幾個委員我們都共同希望能夠推動外送專法的一個訂立為什麼因為不管他合併與否啊外送專法其實才是真真正正能夠法制化並且讓很多我們有疑慮的地方\n362190\t390403\t包含是說他即便是他們沒有合併但是兩家業者其實就算是這個市場的一個一二名也算是市佔率非常高如果兩家有默契想要去做調整不管是減少外送員的一個權益或是提高這個餐廳的一個支出那其實某種無形當中市場也都很容易被壟斷所以外送專法才是能夠真真正正保障並且訂立一些最基本的法制的一個門檻\n391741\t393657\t主委針對這部分你有什麼想法\n394329\t423329\t我想外送專法他可能涉及到非常多的面向那這個會應該是各方面去評估來決定是不是需要專法是啊但是本席現在要提醒的是說就公平會在審理這個合併案件的過程當中你們會有提出如果說未來真的有這個方向的話也有可能有提出一些限制的條件但限制的條件都不及一個法令的一個要求以及限制來著有保障\n424304\t432651\t所以未來是不是本席以及我們幾個委員在提出所謂外送專法的時候也邀請公民會來表達意見主委這樣可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝\n","txt":"請洪孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請李主委請李主委\n主委好 主委我想很多民眾以及本席以及委員都很關心這個外送平台的整併合併事件然後併購案件那我想先確認一下因為上午你也回答相關是說他們是在今年5月有送件是不是那5月30號就已經要求他們補件\n那到目前為止都還沒有補件他有陸續補正但是還有一些不清楚的部分陸續補所以陸續補正陸續補但是一直我們通知補正就是他補來那我們再看一看有些需要補正我們陸續要求他補正那我想請教是我們公平會沒有把他需要補期的所有資料一次跟他講清楚還是說他們是慢慢拖就是今天送一個明天送一個\n我們一般來講過去到現在法令規定我們這樣子的一個審理案件最長我們允許多久的補件期間\n我們沒有這個限定補正的期間那補件完畢正式受理我們有這個審查的法定期間是審查法定時間所以到目前為止都還沒有算因為補件期間每個企業大小補件的情形不一致所以我們盡量讓公司有補件的機會這個文件越齊備我們的這個審查品質才能夠做審理\n好那之前有提到是說會承諾要開公聽會或是相關來去了解我們不管是產業面本席之前也提過嘛就說這外送平台整併無最重要是我們要看到的是餐廳業者能不能因此而保障他的權益外送員能不能保障權益以及消費者三方面\n那這個公聽會什麼時候會開始我們公聽會已經開了北中南東全部都開了那除了這個立法院委員也很關心有開公聽會委員有開委員的部分但是公平會本身公平會從6月開始就開始展開了北中南東那目前大家的一個消息跟訊息大家的這個政法意見都有都有原則上是譬如說\n外送員的關切消費者的關切還有餐廳的關切這一部分意見都有了那所以是不是就我們大家的瞭解嘛最主要大家還是希望是說能夠保障這三方面的權益嘛外送平台在這中間當作是一個橋樑但最主要他是串聯\n餐廳消費者以及外送員三方面的一個權益所以說是不是能夠要保障這三方面的權益不要因為說他們這樣的一個診病而有所受損這才是我們公平會的重點我們的審查重點是從這個競爭交易秩序的改變來看那當然您提到的外送員消費者平台的這些都是考量因素但是我們最終還是要看整個結合的經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益\n提高價格的能力會不會跟其他業者聯合的可能性還有消費者店家跟外送員跟他談判的能力是不是有什麼樣的改變會綜合評估所以你這樣講那不就是很明顯了嗎因為現在我們也看到過去有名的錢櫃好樂迪的一個合併到時候公平會還是不允許嘛是不是那錢櫃跟好樂迪他們合併他們最後加起來市佔率有多少\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n我想你一定會這樣講啦但是本席要提醒啦其實最重點在於是國際社會裡面最近這一段時間有沒有去找說國際社會裡面其他國家有這個外送平台的一個診病的一個案例其他國家是有啦譬如說在韓國在其他國家有那我想每個國家的情況是\n所以有些國家是有成功 有些國家是沒有成功嗎國家會要求做一些這個條件 負條件 情況是不一樣是 所以其實 主委本席的重點還是強調啊為什麼我們會點出來就是因為過去到現在我們已經很關心而更重要的是本席也認為你既然公平會現在要做這個審查你也講到了其實未來的方向其實還是希望是市場能夠健全的\n委員會主任委員會主席\n我們也都有徵詢他們的意見所以說未來你們在做審查的時候是不是幾個行政部門的部分也應該都要同時的納入而不是只是聽委員的聲音我們跨部會的意見都會一起呈現\n讓委員去了解那本席也說啊本席現在跟幾個委員我們都共同希望能夠推動外送專法的一個訂立為什麼因為不管他合併與否啊外送專法其實才是真真正正能夠法制化並且讓很多我們有疑慮的地方\n包含是說他即便是他們沒有合併但是兩家業者其實就算是這個市場的一個一二名也算是市佔率非常高如果兩家有默契想要去做調整不管是減少外送員的一個權益或是提高這個餐廳的一個支出那其實某種無形當中市場也都很容易被壟斷所以外送專法才是能夠真真正正保障並且訂立一些最基本的法制的一個門檻\n主委針對這部分你有什麼想法\n我想外送專法他可能涉及到非常多的面向那這個會應該是各方面去評估來決定是不是需要專法是啊但是本席現在要提醒的是說就公平會在審理這個合併案件的過程當中你們會有提出如果說未來真的有這個方向的話也有可能有提出一些限制的條件但限制的條件都不及一個法令的一個要求以及限制來著有保障\n所以未來是不是本席以及我們幾個委員在提出所謂外送專法的時候也邀請公民會來表達意見主委這樣可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.417 --> 00:12.212\n請洪孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請李主委請李主委\n\n00:20.246 --> 00:38.311\n主委好主委我想很多民眾以及本席以及委員都很關心這個外送平台的整併合併事件然後併購案件那我想先確認一下因為上午你也回答相關是說他們是在今年5月有送件是不是那5月30號就已經要求他們補件\n\n00:39.651 --> 01:06.409\n那到目前為止都還沒有補件他有陸續補正但是還有一些不清楚的部分陸續補所以陸續補正陸續補但是一直我們通知補正就是他補來那我們再看一看有些需要補正我們陸續要求他補正那我想請教是我們公平會沒有把他需要補期的所有資料一次跟他講清楚還是說他們是慢慢拖就是今天送一個明天送一個\n\n01:06.969 --> 01:09.692\n我們一般來講過去到現在法令規定我們這樣子的一個審理案件最長我們允許多久的補件期間\n\n01:21.189 --> 01:46.857\n我們沒有這個限定補正的期間那補件完畢正式受理我們有這個審查的法定期間是審查法定時間所以到目前為止都還沒有算因為補件期間每個企業大小補件的情形不一致所以我們盡量讓公司有補件的機會這個文件越齊備我們的這個審查品質才能夠做審理\n\n01:48.297 --> 02:09.072\n好那之前有提到是說會承諾要開公聽會或是相關來去了解我們不管是產業面本席之前也提過嘛就說這外送平台整併無最重要是我們要看到的是餐廳業者能不能因此而保障他的權益外送員能不能保障權益以及消費者三方面\n\n02:09.853 --> 02:37.449\n那這個公聽會什麼時候會開始我們公聽會已經開了北中南東全部都開了那除了這個立法院委員也很關心有開公聽會委員有開委員的部分但是公平會本身公平會從6月開始就開始展開了北中南東那目前大家的一個消息跟訊息大家的這個政法意見都有都有原則上是譬如說\n\n02:39.291 --> 02:56.584\n外送員的關切消費者的關切還有餐廳的關切這一部分意見都有了那所以是不是就我們大家的瞭解嘛最主要大家還是希望是說能夠保障這三方面的權益嘛外送平台在這中間當作是一個橋樑但最主要他是串聯\n\n02:57.845 --> 03:24.876\n餐廳消費者以及外送員三方面的一個權益所以說是不是能夠要保障這三方面的權益不要因為說他們這樣的一個診病而有所受損這才是我們公平會的重點我們的審查重點是從這個競爭交易秩序的改變來看那當然您提到的外送員消費者平台的這些都是考量因素但是我們最終還是要看整個結合的經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益\n\n03:26.377 --> 03:53.150\n提高價格的能力會不會跟其他業者聯合的可能性還有消費者店家跟外送員跟他談判的能力是不是有什麼樣的改變會綜合評估所以你這樣講那不就是很明顯了嗎因為現在我們也看到過去有名的錢櫃好樂迪的一個合併到時候公平會還是不允許嘛是不是那錢櫃跟好樂迪他們合併他們最後加起來市佔率有多少\n\n03:53.649 --> 03:54.690\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n04:17.216 --> 04:38.795\n我想你一定會這樣講啦但是本席要提醒啦其實最重點在於是國際社會裡面最近這一段時間有沒有去找說國際社會裡面其他國家有這個外送平台的一個診病的一個案例其他國家是有啦譬如說在韓國在其他國家有那我想每個國家的情況是\n\n04:39.535 --> 05:05.391\n所以有些國家是有成功有些國家是沒有成功嗎國家會要求做一些這個條件負條件情況是不一樣是所以其實主委本席的重點還是強調啊為什麼我們會點出來就是因為過去到現在我們已經很關心而更重要的是本席也認為你既然公平會現在要做這個審查你也講到了其實未來的方向其實還是希望是市場能夠健全的\n\n05:05.751 --> 05:06.071\n委員會主任委員會主席\n\n05:23.971 --> 05:40.456\n我們也都有徵詢他們的意見所以說未來你們在做審查的時候是不是幾個行政部門的部分也應該都要同時的納入而不是只是聽委員的聲音我們跨部會的意見都會一起呈現\n\n05:41.876 --> 06:01.650\n讓委員去了解那本席也說啊本席現在跟幾個委員我們都共同希望能夠推動外送專法的一個訂立為什麼因為不管他合併與否啊外送專法其實才是真真正正能夠法制化並且讓很多我們有疑慮的地方\n\n06:02.190 --> 06:30.403\n包含是說他即便是他們沒有合併但是兩家業者其實就算是這個市場的一個一二名也算是市佔率非常高如果兩家有默契想要去做調整不管是減少外送員的一個權益或是提高這個餐廳的一個支出那其實某種無形當中市場也都很容易被壟斷所以外送專法才是能夠真真正正保障並且訂立一些最基本的法制的一個門檻\n\n06:31.741 --> 06:33.657\n主委針對這部分你有什麼想法\n\n06:34.329 --> 07:03.329\n我想外送專法他可能涉及到非常多的面向那這個會應該是各方面去評估來決定是不是需要專法是啊但是本席現在要提醒的是說就公平會在審理這個合併案件的過程當中你們會有提出如果說未來真的有這個方向的話也有可能有提出一些限制的條件但限制的條件都不及一個法令的一個要求以及限制來著有保障\n\n07:04.304 --> 07:12.651\n所以未來是不是本席以及我們幾個委員在提出所謂外送專法的時候也邀請公民會來表達意見主委這樣可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.417,"end":12.212,"text":"請洪孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請李主委請李主委"},{"start":20.246,"end":38.311,"text":"主委好 主委我想很多民眾以及本席以及委員都很關心這個外送平台的整併合併事件然後併購案件那我想先確認一下因為上午你也回答相關是說他們是在今年5月有送件是不是那5月30號就已經要求他們補件"},{"start":39.651,"end":66.409,"text":"那到目前為止都還沒有補件他有陸續補正但是還有一些不清楚的部分陸續補所以陸續補正陸續補但是一直我們通知補正就是他補來那我們再看一看有些需要補正我們陸續要求他補正那我想請教是我們公平會沒有把他需要補期的所有資料一次跟他講清楚還是說他們是慢慢拖就是今天送一個明天送一個"},{"start":66.969,"end":69.692,"text":"我們一般來講過去到現在法令規定我們這樣子的一個審理案件最長我們允許多久的補件期間"},{"start":81.189,"end":106.857,"text":"我們沒有這個限定補正的期間那補件完畢正式受理我們有這個審查的法定期間是審查法定時間所以到目前為止都還沒有算因為補件期間每個企業大小補件的情形不一致所以我們盡量讓公司有補件的機會這個文件越齊備我們的這個審查品質才能夠做審理"},{"start":108.297,"end":129.072,"text":"好那之前有提到是說會承諾要開公聽會或是相關來去了解我們不管是產業面本席之前也提過嘛就說這外送平台整併無最重要是我們要看到的是餐廳業者能不能因此而保障他的權益外送員能不能保障權益以及消費者三方面"},{"start":129.853,"end":157.449,"text":"那這個公聽會什麼時候會開始我們公聽會已經開了北中南東全部都開了那除了這個立法院委員也很關心有開公聽會委員有開委員的部分但是公平會本身公平會從6月開始就開始展開了北中南東那目前大家的一個消息跟訊息大家的這個政法意見都有都有原則上是譬如說"},{"start":159.291,"end":176.584,"text":"外送員的關切消費者的關切還有餐廳的關切這一部分意見都有了那所以是不是就我們大家的瞭解嘛最主要大家還是希望是說能夠保障這三方面的權益嘛外送平台在這中間當作是一個橋樑但最主要他是串聯"},{"start":177.845,"end":204.876,"text":"餐廳消費者以及外送員三方面的一個權益所以說是不是能夠要保障這三方面的權益不要因為說他們這樣的一個診病而有所受損這才是我們公平會的重點我們的審查重點是從這個競爭交易秩序的改變來看那當然您提到的外送員消費者平台的這些都是考量因素但是我們最終還是要看整個結合的經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益"},{"start":206.377,"end":233.15,"text":"提高價格的能力會不會跟其他業者聯合的可能性還有消費者店家跟外送員跟他談判的能力是不是有什麼樣的改變會綜合評估所以你這樣講那不就是很明顯了嗎因為現在我們也看到過去有名的錢櫃好樂迪的一個合併到時候公平會還是不允許嘛是不是那錢櫃跟好樂迪他們合併他們最後加起來市佔率有多少"},{"start":233.649,"end":234.69,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":257.216,"end":278.795,"text":"我想你一定會這樣講啦但是本席要提醒啦其實最重點在於是國際社會裡面最近這一段時間有沒有去找說國際社會裡面其他國家有這個外送平台的一個診病的一個案例其他國家是有啦譬如說在韓國在其他國家有那我想每個國家的情況是"},{"start":279.535,"end":305.391,"text":"所以有些國家是有成功 有些國家是沒有成功嗎國家會要求做一些這個條件 負條件 情況是不一樣是 所以其實 主委本席的重點還是強調啊為什麼我們會點出來就是因為過去到現在我們已經很關心而更重要的是本席也認為你既然公平會現在要做這個審查你也講到了其實未來的方向其實還是希望是市場能夠健全的"},{"start":305.751,"end":306.071,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":323.971,"end":340.456,"text":"我們也都有徵詢他們的意見所以說未來你們在做審查的時候是不是幾個行政部門的部分也應該都要同時的納入而不是只是聽委員的聲音我們跨部會的意見都會一起呈現"},{"start":341.876,"end":361.65,"text":"讓委員去了解那本席也說啊本席現在跟幾個委員我們都共同希望能夠推動外送專法的一個訂立為什麼因為不管他合併與否啊外送專法其實才是真真正正能夠法制化並且讓很多我們有疑慮的地方"},{"start":362.19,"end":390.403,"text":"包含是說他即便是他們沒有合併但是兩家業者其實就算是這個市場的一個一二名也算是市佔率非常高如果兩家有默契想要去做調整不管是減少外送員的一個權益或是提高這個餐廳的一個支出那其實某種無形當中市場也都很容易被壟斷所以外送專法才是能夠真真正正保障並且訂立一些最基本的法制的一個門檻"},{"start":391.741,"end":393.657,"text":"主委針對這部分你有什麼想法"},{"start":394.329,"end":423.329,"text":"我想外送專法他可能涉及到非常多的面向那這個會應該是各方面去評估來決定是不是需要專法是啊但是本席現在要提醒的是說就公平會在審理這個合併案件的過程當中你們會有提出如果說未來真的有這個方向的話也有可能有提出一些限制的條件但限制的條件都不及一個法令的一個要求以及限制來著有保障"},{"start":424.304,"end":432.651,"text":"所以未來是不是本席以及我們幾個委員在提出所謂外送專法的時候也邀請公民會來表達意見主委這樣可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:32:23 - 11:39:40","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154989,"gazette":{"lineno":796,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時32分）主席謝謝，麻煩請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。主委，很多民眾、本席以及委員都很關心外送平臺的整併、合併事件、併購案件，我想先確認一下，因為上午你也回答相關，你是說他們是在今年5月有送件，是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：遞件。"],["洪委員孟楷：5月30號就已經要求他們補件？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：到目前為止都還沒有補件？"],["李主任委員鎂：他有陸續補正，但是還有一些不清楚的部分，所以我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：陸續補？"],["李主任委員鎂：對，所以陸續補正，我們通知……"],["洪委員孟楷：陸續補，但是一直……"],["李主任委員鎂：我們通知補正，就是他補來，那我們再看一看，有一些需要補正，我們陸續要求他補正。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我想請教，是公平會沒有把需要補齊的所有資料一次跟他講清楚，還是說他慢慢拖，就是今天送一個，明天送一個？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們需要補的資料給他，那他陸續補來，如果還有不清楚的時候，我們會請他繼續補正。"],["洪委員孟楷：一般來講，過去到現在，法令規定，對於這樣子的審理案件，最長我們允許多久的補件期間？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們沒有限定補正的期間，補件完畢正式受理，我們有審查的法定期間。"],["洪委員孟楷：是審查法定時間？"],["李主任委員鎂：對，審查法定期間。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到目前為止都還沒有算受理？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為補件期間，每個企業大小，補件的情形不一致，所以我們儘量讓公司有補件的機會，這個文件越齊備，我們的審查品質就會越高。"],["洪委員孟楷：才能夠審理？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，那之前有提到會承諾要開公聽會或是去了解相關產業面，本席之前也提過，就是關於外送平臺整併，最重要的是我們要看到能不能因此而保障餐廳業者的權益，能不能保障外送員權益以及消費者三方面，這個公聽會什麼時候會開始？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們公聽會已經開了，北、中、南、東全部都開了，除了立法院委員也很關心，有開公聽會之外，都有……"],["洪委員孟楷：委員有開委員的部分，但是公平會自己呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：公平會從6月開始就開始展開了，北、中、南、東，所有利害關係人都下來。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以目前大家的消息跟訊息……"],["李主任委員鎂：大家的關心……"],["洪委員孟楷：正反意見都有？"],["李主任委員鎂：都有，原則上是，譬如外送員的關切、消費者的關切，還有餐廳的關切，這一部分的意見都有了。"],["洪委員孟楷：就大家的了解，最主要還是希望能夠保障這三方面的權益，外送平臺在這中間當作是一個橋梁，但最主要它是串聯餐廳、消費者以及外送員三方面的權益，所以是不是能夠保障這三方面的權益，不要因為這樣的整併而有所受損，這才是公平會的重點。"],["李主任委員鎂：我們的審查重點是從這個競爭、交易秩序的改變來看，當然您提到的外送員、消費者、平臺，這些都是考量因素，但是我們最終還是要看整個結合的經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益，譬如說抬高價格的能力，會不會跟其他業者聯合的可能性，還有消費者、店家跟外送員跟他談判的能力，是不是有什麼樣的改變？我們會綜合評估。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委這樣講，那不就是很明顯了嗎？因為我們也看到過去有名的錢櫃、好樂迪的合併，到最後公平會還是不允許嘛，是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：對，這個案子……"],["洪委員孟楷：錢櫃跟好樂迪合併，他們最後加起來市占率有多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：我印象中也是很高。"],["洪委員孟楷：只有一半、百分之五十，對不對？那外送平臺現在整併之後，它的市占率會到多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：會超過八成以上，八、九成。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在公平會有沒有已經先入為主，已經有政策方向了？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們不會先入為主、有政策方向，因為所有的案件都要經過我們的委員會獨立來處理……"],["洪委員孟楷：我想你一定會這樣講啦！但是本席要提醒，其實最重點在於最近這段時間，有沒有去找國際社會裡面其他國家有外送平臺整併的案例？"],["李主任委員鎂：其他國家是有，譬如在韓國、在其他國家有，但我想每個國家的情況是不太一樣的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以有些國家是有成功，有些國家是沒有成功，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：有的國家會要求做一些條件、附條件，情況是不一樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以主委，本席的重點還是強調，為什麼我們會點出來？因為過去到現在，我們一直很關心，而更重要的是，本席也認為，既然公平會現在要做這個審查，你也講到了，其實未來的方向還是希望市場能夠是健全的，而不希望有壟斷的狀況發生，那就應該還要有一些相關的法令工具能夠來使用，而勞動部也有要求，公平會在審查合併案的過程裡面，應該要把相關部會都納進來決策的過程，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：有，我們也都有徵詢他們的意見，開公聽會也有請他們來。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以未來你們在審查的時候，是不是幾個行政部門也應該都要同時納入，而不是只是聽委員的聲音？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們跨部會的意見都會一起呈現，讓委員去了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席現在跟幾個委員，都共同希望能夠推動外送專法的訂定，為什麼？因為不管它合併與否，外送專法其實才是真真正正能夠法制化，並且解決很多我們有疑慮的地方，即便他們沒有合併，但是兩家業者其實算是這個市場的一、二名，也算是市占率非常高，如果兩家有默契，想要去調整，不管是減少外送員的權益，或是提高餐廳的支出，其實無形當中，市場也都很容易被壟斷，所以外送專法才能夠真真正正保障，並且訂立一些最基本的法制門檻。主委，針對這個部分，你有什麼想法？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想外送專法可能涉及到非常多的面向，應該從各方面去評估來決定是不是需要專法。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！但是本席現在要提醒的是，就公平會在審理這一個合併案件的過程當中，你們會有提出，如果未來真的有這個方向的話，也有可能有提出一些限制的條件，但限制條件都不及法令的要求及限制來得有保障，所以未來本席以及我們幾個委員提出所謂外送專法的時候，是不是也邀請公平會來表達意見？主委，這樣可以嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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