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687.905, \"end\": 687.925, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 717.705, \"end\": 717.745, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 717.745, \"end\": 717.765, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 717.765, \"end\": 717.845, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 717.845, \"end\": 717.865, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,629 --> 00:00:06,351\n主委,您剛上任的時候曾表示說要拚三個月的有感政績那在上個會期我們國科會初次您來業務報告的時候主委您也曾跟本席來具體描述你將優先推動的這個幾個面向一個\n\n2\n00:00:30,126 --> 00:00:47,098\n我記得很清楚就是協助傳統產業投入這個高科技的應用像包括工具機啊如何的這個使用智慧化等等那另一個就是說在賴總統宣示的這個健康台灣的願景之下如何加速這個智慧醫療那高齡科技的這種醫療健康的這種產業的科技化那我想在這裡想要跟主委驗收一下就是說\n\n3\n00:01:00,468 --> 00:01:13,821\n這幾個月來您努力的成績那也要請主委簡單說明一下這個這幾個面向上特別您宣示的這幾個面向你覺得現在你有做出哪些有感的重大政策\n\n4\n00:01:15,438 --> 00:01:32,666\n第一,我們已經3個月之內規劃了一個智慧科技大南方產業生態系一個新增的方案那也在行政院通過也編列到我們的預算裏面就是明年的預算裏面希望能夠如期的啟動\n\n5\n00:01:33,926 --> 00:02:01,888\n那在這個智慧大南方的方案裡面呢我們會結合從嘉義以南一直到屏東那座落在我們的這個沙倫的這個科學城這個地方國科會本來就已經有投資那未來會再投資一個新的這個所以這個智慧大南方的這個類似這種科學城裡面你具體要實施的就是所謂您剛講的這些\n\n6\n00:02:03,729 --> 00:02:26,621\n會鏈接百工百業,除了我們已經有的科技產業之外,我們會把需求端包含到服務業以及傳統的製造業,我們都希望能夠協助他們,協助他們可以做數位轉型跟智慧化,把我們的主權AI建起來,讓他們能夠受益,發展我們自主的AI應用的這些系統,我們會做這個事。\n\n7\n00:02:29,362 --> 00:02:55,948\n另外當然今天非常多的委員在關注就是有超過600個學者對於這個來連署呼籲我們國科會要重新重視永續發展跨域的研究那我想剛剛也聽您做一些的這個澄清跟解釋那我想這個科研要永續不只是這個政策層面的宣示跟目標的訂定而已\n\n8\n00:02:56,708 --> 00:03:07,498\n國科會怎麼樣注重跟學界的溝通跟建立互信我想這一部分是非常非常的重要所以我們當然您的曾經有表示說要團結來面對跨域的難題不過就誠如本席剛剛提到的引領科學發展的這個國科會應該要加強跟各層面的有效溝通跟互信\n\n9\n00:03:22,472 --> 00:03:47,257\n你才能確保這個系統性的政策的建置跟這個恰當的這個資源分配所以我在這邊還是要提醒主委你應該跟產學研各界要做一些溝通的清除那會不會有資源重新的配置或政策定位能不能被外界理解等等的疑慮那我想這部分你到底現在有沒有把握會做好溝通的工作\n\n10\n00:03:48,070 --> 00:04:03,008\n我們會努力做好溝通不是努力有沒有把握有把握啦因為我也不是壞人啦所以我想大家會諒解我會盡力去溝通從我們基層研究的學者\n\n11\n00:04:04,745 --> 00:04:31,883\n你不是壞人那我想你是好人好人不一定會做好的事所以其實你要有把握你有努力可是不一定能成功所以要有把握能掌握你能去補充疑慮的地方也要有把握能做好溝通這部分很重要今天很多委員都在關心這件事情是我知道所以我會努力去做我是有把握的但是\n\n12\n00:04:32,563 --> 00:04:49,036\n那結果當然取決於最後大家是不是信任我所以我覺得是沒問題啦因為今天委員溝通的事情我覺得原來負面的意圖其實都不存在所以我是很有信心大家會認同\n\n13\n00:04:50,057 --> 00:05:14,978\n期待您再來的處理狀況另外就是談及這個永續科研我想環境的永續的地位應該被優先看待那同樣是上個會期的質詢中有關於科學園區事業廢棄物再利用率的問題我們從行政院本會期的施政報告中有得知接近今年6月底\n\n14\n00:05:15,618 --> 00:05:31,343\n三個園區的試驗廢棄物的再利用率有高達9494%那上次本席在質詢這個題目的時候就是主委你有提到你們會將園區廠商一起協力一樣將這個試驗廢棄物的再利用率達到100%你上次有這樣誇下海口往這個目標邁進那目前不曉得努力了怎麼樣\n\n15\n00:05:41,752 --> 00:05:55,442\n我們持續在進行中科管理局已經跟台積電合作把相關的這個台積電的協力廠商集中在園區裡面做一個叫零費製造中心那由台積電來輔導這些廠商\n\n16\n00:06:16,944 --> 00:06:16,964\n好．\n\n17\n00:06:39,008 --> 00:06:39,068\n林宜瑾議員\n\n18\n00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:54,339\n委員會主席\n\n19\n00:07:11,860 --> 00:07:32,076\n我們的成果其實是世界這個數一數二可是不過在設計上我想我們可能還沒有開拓自己的一片天下所以當然我們要肯定國科會有跨出這一大步那現在就是說我們針對是否如期可以營運那國科會不久前有表示說針對這個金創方案的執行方向包括國際合作的這個策略\n\n20\n00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:37,760\n主委．\n\n21\n00:07:54,501 --> 00:08:21,369\n報告委員,我們並沒有終止。需要調整。調整的原因是因為最近捷克也有選舉的事情。我們當初接任的時候也是新手。所以雙方的人員要互相認識再溝通經過一段時間。然後在捷克因為它是一個執政聯盟有很多的政黨是一起執政的。\n\n22\n00:08:21,909 --> 00:08:43,250\n所以他們對於這個我們設立的這種合作的機制也有不同的意見那不同意見並不是說我們要終止而是他們還在討論怎麼樣做是比較好那也跟我們在溝通當中那可能本來本來是9月要接牌的等等我們可能只是延到也許在年底年底之前一定會一定會完成好完成這個那除了捷克這個點以外\n\n23\n00:08:46,693 --> 00:09:06,028\n我們現在的策略我已經很明確定了我們半導體在國際合作策略這個策略就是利用我們半導體製造的優勢我們目前選定的這個區域包含日本包含美國還有在德國因為我們台積電的這個設廠所需要的這個人才是非常非常多\n\n24\n00:09:06,708 --> 00:09:31,999\n對那透過我們跟這些有好國家的學員的合作來培養我們台積電需要的人才這個人才其實在我們台灣不只在我們台灣在那個德國製造基地以及它的整個供應鏈在日本在美國都有所以透過國科會的這個機制對台積電的這個永續發展其實非常重要我們會加強這一點所以不只捷克我們在德國\n\n25\n00:09:32,719 --> 00:09:33,240\n林宜瑾林宜瑾\n\n26\n00:09:48,416 --> 00:10:14,611\n好繼續加油那我想談到永續科研我們就不得不談到近期這個席捲而來的這個AI浪潮喔自然期間有登出一篇AI研究研究團隊有發現說早期的AI模型喔遇到不懂的問題它比較會迴避那升級過後的這個版本它會出現一些湖州答案的情形喔\n\n27\n00:10:15,611 --> 00:10:33,585\n他們分析了三大語言模型像說openAI的GPT或者Meta就是臉書的LLAMA還有就是Bloom那我想發現越來越大的語言模型回答的精準度當然確實有上升\n\n28\n00:10:34,986 --> 00:10:52,976\n但這些不精確的答案中其實錯誤的比例也有上升那有專家指出說可能是因為未給AI模型訓練的語料不見得完全正確以及模型本身也不見得可以篩掉這些資訊錯誤的假象這關係那對於這篇期刊所針對的模型當然已經是2004年\n\n29\n00:10:59,580 --> 00:11:04,481\n國科會開發的Tide模型有辦法迴避掉我們現在這些疑慮嗎?那我們要如何去定期檢查或者未給他大量的資料可是\n\n30\n00:11:27,785 --> 00:11:27,925\n主席\n\n31\n00:11:57,705 --> 00:11:57,865\n主委、主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3629\t6351\t主委,您剛上任的時候曾表示說要拚三個月的有感政績那在上個會期我們國科會初次您來業務報告的時候主委您也曾跟本席來具體描述你將優先推動的這個幾個面向一個\n30126\t47098\t我記得很清楚就是協助傳統產業投入這個高科技的應用像包括工具機啊如何的這個使用智慧化等等那另一個就是說在賴總統宣示的這個健康台灣的願景之下如何加速這個智慧醫療那高齡科技的這種醫療健康的這種產業的科技化那我想在這裡想要跟主委驗收一下就是說\n60468\t73821\t這幾個月來您努力的成績那也要請主委簡單說明一下這個這幾個面向上特別您宣示的這幾個面向你覺得現在你有做出哪些有感的重大政策\n75438\t92666\t第一,我們已經3個月之內規劃了一個智慧科技大南方產業生態系一個新增的方案那也在行政院通過也編列到我們的預算裏面就是明年的預算裏面希望能夠如期的啟動\n93926\t121888\t那在這個智慧大南方的方案裡面呢我們會結合從嘉義以南一直到屏東那座落在我們的這個沙倫的這個科學城這個地方國科會本來就已經有投資那未來會再投資一個新的這個所以這個智慧大南方的這個類似這種科學城裡面你具體要實施的就是所謂您剛講的這些\n123729\t146621\t會鏈接百工百業,除了我們已經有的科技產業之外,我們會把需求端包含到服務業以及傳統的製造業,我們都希望能夠協助他們,協助他們可以做數位轉型跟智慧化,把我們的主權AI建起來,讓他們能夠受益,發展我們自主的AI應用的這些系統,我們會做這個事。\n149362\t175948\t另外當然今天非常多的委員在關注就是有超過600個學者對於這個來連署呼籲我們國科會要重新重視永續發展跨域的研究那我想剛剛也聽您做一些的這個澄清跟解釋那我想這個科研要永續不只是這個政策層面的宣示跟目標的訂定而已\n176708\t187498\t國科會怎麼樣注重跟學界的溝通跟建立互信我想這一部分是非常非常的重要所以我們當然您的曾經有表示說要團結來面對跨域的難題不過就誠如本席剛剛提到的引領科學發展的這個國科會應該要加強跟各層面的有效溝通跟互信\n202472\t227257\t你才能確保這個系統性的政策的建置跟這個恰當的這個資源分配所以我在這邊還是要提醒主委你應該跟產學研各界要做一些溝通的清除那會不會有資源重新的配置或政策定位能不能被外界理解等等的疑慮那我想這部分你到底現在有沒有把握會做好溝通的工作\n228070\t243008\t我們會努力做好溝通不是努力 有沒有把握有把握啦 因為我也不是壞人啦所以我想大家會諒解我會盡力去溝通從我們基層研究的學者\n244745\t271883\t你不是壞人那我想你是好人好人不一定會做好的事所以其實你要有把握你有努力可是不一定能成功所以要有把握能掌握你能去補充疑慮的地方也要有把握能做好溝通這部分很重要今天很多委員都在關心這件事情是我知道所以我會努力去做我是有把握的但是\n272563\t289036\t那結果當然取決於最後大家是不是信任我所以我覺得是沒問題啦因為今天委員溝通的事情我覺得原來負面的意圖其實都不存在所以我是很有信心大家會認同\n290057\t314978\t期待您再來的處理狀況另外就是談及這個永續科研我想環境的永續的地位應該被優先看待那同樣是上個會期的質詢中有關於科學園區事業廢棄物再利用率的問題我們從行政院本會期的施政報告中有得知接近今年6月底\n315618\t331343\t三個園區的試驗廢棄物的再利用率有高達9494%那上次本席在質詢這個題目的時候就是主委你有提到你們會將園區廠商一起協力一樣將這個試驗廢棄物的再利用率達到100%你上次有這樣誇下海口往這個目標邁進那目前不曉得努力了怎麼樣\n341752\t355442\t我們持續在進行中科管理局已經跟台積電合作把相關的這個台積電的協力廠商集中在園區裡面做一個叫零費製造中心那由台積電來輔導這些廠商\n358524\t376664\t﹗\n376944\t376964\t好．\n399008\t399068\t林宜瑾議員\n414199\t414339\t委員會主席\n431860\t452076\t我們的成果其實是世界這個數一數二可是不過在設計上我想我們可能還沒有開拓自己的一片天下所以當然我們要肯定國科會有跨出這一大步那現在就是說我們針對是否如期可以營運那國科會不久前有表示說針對這個金創方案的執行方向包括國際合作的這個策略\n457600\t457760\t主委．\n474501\t501369\t報告委員,我們並沒有終止。需要調整。調整的原因是因為最近捷克也有選舉的事情。我們當初接任的時候也是新手。所以雙方的人員要互相認識再溝通經過一段時間。然後在捷克因為它是一個執政聯盟有很多的政黨是一起執政的。\n501909\t523250\t所以他們對於這個我們設立的這種合作的機制也有不同的意見那不同意見並不是說我們要終止而是他們還在討論怎麼樣做是比較好那也跟我們在溝通當中那可能本來本來是9月要接牌的等等我們可能只是延到也許在年底年底之前一定會一定會完成好完成這個那除了捷克這個點以外\n526693\t546028\t我們現在的策略我已經很明確定了我們半導體在國際合作策略這個策略就是利用我們半導體製造的優勢我們目前選定的這個區域包含日本包含美國還有在德國因為我們台積電的這個設廠所需要的這個人才是非常非常多\n546708\t571999\t對那透過我們跟這些有好國家的學員的合作來培養我們台積電需要的人才這個人才其實在我們台灣不只在我們台灣在那個德國製造基地以及它的整個供應鏈在日本在美國都有所以透過國科會的這個機制對台積電的這個永續發展其實非常重要我們會加強這一點所以不只捷克我們在德國\n572719\t573240\t林宜瑾 林宜瑾\n588416\t614611\t好繼續加油那我想談到永續科研我們就不得不談到近期這個席捲而來的這個AI浪潮喔自然期間有登出一篇AI研究研究團隊有發現說早期的AI模型喔遇到不懂的問題它比較會迴避那升級過後的這個版本它會出現一些湖州答案的情形喔\n615611\t633585\t他們分析了三大語言模型像說openAI的GPT或者Meta就是臉書的LLAMA還有就是Bloom那我想發現越來越大的語言模型回答的精準度當然確實有上升\n634986\t652976\t但這些不精確的答案中其實錯誤的比例也有上升那有專家指出說可能是因為未給AI模型訓練的語料不見得完全正確以及模型本身也不見得可以篩掉這些資訊錯誤的假象這關係那對於這篇期刊所針對的模型當然已經是2004年\n659580\t664481\t國科會開發的Tide模型有辦法迴避掉我們現在這些疑慮嗎?那我們要如何去定期檢查或者未給他大量的資料可是\n687785\t687925\t主席\n717705\t717865\t主委、主席\n","txt":"主委,您剛上任的時候曾表示說要拚三個月的有感政績那在上個會期我們國科會初次您來業務報告的時候主委您也曾跟本席來具體描述你將優先推動的這個幾個面向一個\n我記得很清楚就是協助傳統產業投入這個高科技的應用像包括工具機啊如何的這個使用智慧化等等那另一個就是說在賴總統宣示的這個健康台灣的願景之下如何加速這個智慧醫療那高齡科技的這種醫療健康的這種產業的科技化那我想在這裡想要跟主委驗收一下就是說\n這幾個月來您努力的成績那也要請主委簡單說明一下這個這幾個面向上特別您宣示的這幾個面向你覺得現在你有做出哪些有感的重大政策\n第一,我們已經3個月之內規劃了一個智慧科技大南方產業生態系一個新增的方案那也在行政院通過也編列到我們的預算裏面就是明年的預算裏面希望能夠如期的啟動\n那在這個智慧大南方的方案裡面呢我們會結合從嘉義以南一直到屏東那座落在我們的這個沙倫的這個科學城這個地方國科會本來就已經有投資那未來會再投資一個新的這個所以這個智慧大南方的這個類似這種科學城裡面你具體要實施的就是所謂您剛講的這些\n會鏈接百工百業,除了我們已經有的科技產業之外,我們會把需求端包含到服務業以及傳統的製造業,我們都希望能夠協助他們,協助他們可以做數位轉型跟智慧化,把我們的主權AI建起來,讓他們能夠受益,發展我們自主的AI應用的這些系統,我們會做這個事。\n另外當然今天非常多的委員在關注就是有超過600個學者對於這個來連署呼籲我們國科會要重新重視永續發展跨域的研究那我想剛剛也聽您做一些的這個澄清跟解釋那我想這個科研要永續不只是這個政策層面的宣示跟目標的訂定而已\n國科會怎麼樣注重跟學界的溝通跟建立互信我想這一部分是非常非常的重要所以我們當然您的曾經有表示說要團結來面對跨域的難題不過就誠如本席剛剛提到的引領科學發展的這個國科會應該要加強跟各層面的有效溝通跟互信\n你才能確保這個系統性的政策的建置跟這個恰當的這個資源分配所以我在這邊還是要提醒主委你應該跟產學研各界要做一些溝通的清除那會不會有資源重新的配置或政策定位能不能被外界理解等等的疑慮那我想這部分你到底現在有沒有把握會做好溝通的工作\n我們會努力做好溝通不是努力 有沒有把握有把握啦 因為我也不是壞人啦所以我想大家會諒解我會盡力去溝通從我們基層研究的學者\n你不是壞人那我想你是好人好人不一定會做好的事所以其實你要有把握你有努力可是不一定能成功所以要有把握能掌握你能去補充疑慮的地方也要有把握能做好溝通這部分很重要今天很多委員都在關心這件事情是我知道所以我會努力去做我是有把握的但是\n那結果當然取決於最後大家是不是信任我所以我覺得是沒問題啦因為今天委員溝通的事情我覺得原來負面的意圖其實都不存在所以我是很有信心大家會認同\n期待您再來的處理狀況另外就是談及這個永續科研我想環境的永續的地位應該被優先看待那同樣是上個會期的質詢中有關於科學園區事業廢棄物再利用率的問題我們從行政院本會期的施政報告中有得知接近今年6月底\n三個園區的試驗廢棄物的再利用率有高達9494%那上次本席在質詢這個題目的時候就是主委你有提到你們會將園區廠商一起協力一樣將這個試驗廢棄物的再利用率達到100%你上次有這樣誇下海口往這個目標邁進那目前不曉得努力了怎麼樣\n我們持續在進行中科管理局已經跟台積電合作把相關的這個台積電的協力廠商集中在園區裡面做一個叫零費製造中心那由台積電來輔導這些廠商\n﹗\n好．\n林宜瑾議員\n委員會主席\n我們的成果其實是世界這個數一數二可是不過在設計上我想我們可能還沒有開拓自己的一片天下所以當然我們要肯定國科會有跨出這一大步那現在就是說我們針對是否如期可以營運那國科會不久前有表示說針對這個金創方案的執行方向包括國際合作的這個策略\n主委．\n報告委員,我們並沒有終止。需要調整。調整的原因是因為最近捷克也有選舉的事情。我們當初接任的時候也是新手。所以雙方的人員要互相認識再溝通經過一段時間。然後在捷克因為它是一個執政聯盟有很多的政黨是一起執政的。\n所以他們對於這個我們設立的這種合作的機制也有不同的意見那不同意見並不是說我們要終止而是他們還在討論怎麼樣做是比較好那也跟我們在溝通當中那可能本來本來是9月要接牌的等等我們可能只是延到也許在年底年底之前一定會一定會完成好完成這個那除了捷克這個點以外\n我們現在的策略我已經很明確定了我們半導體在國際合作策略這個策略就是利用我們半導體製造的優勢我們目前選定的這個區域包含日本包含美國還有在德國因為我們台積電的這個設廠所需要的這個人才是非常非常多\n對那透過我們跟這些有好國家的學員的合作來培養我們台積電需要的人才這個人才其實在我們台灣不只在我們台灣在那個德國製造基地以及它的整個供應鏈在日本在美國都有所以透過國科會的這個機制對台積電的這個永續發展其實非常重要我們會加強這一點所以不只捷克我們在德國\n林宜瑾 林宜瑾\n好繼續加油那我想談到永續科研我們就不得不談到近期這個席捲而來的這個AI浪潮喔自然期間有登出一篇AI研究研究團隊有發現說早期的AI模型喔遇到不懂的問題它比較會迴避那升級過後的這個版本它會出現一些湖州答案的情形喔\n他們分析了三大語言模型像說openAI的GPT或者Meta就是臉書的LLAMA還有就是Bloom那我想發現越來越大的語言模型回答的精準度當然確實有上升\n但這些不精確的答案中其實錯誤的比例也有上升那有專家指出說可能是因為未給AI模型訓練的語料不見得完全正確以及模型本身也不見得可以篩掉這些資訊錯誤的假象這關係那對於這篇期刊所針對的模型當然已經是2004年\n國科會開發的Tide模型有辦法迴避掉我們現在這些疑慮嗎?那我們要如何去定期檢查或者未給他大量的資料可是\n主席\n主委、主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.629 --> 00:06.351\n主委,您剛上任的時候曾表示說要拚三個月的有感政績那在上個會期我們國科會初次您來業務報告的時候主委您也曾跟本席來具體描述你將優先推動的這個幾個面向一個\n\n00:30.126 --> 00:47.098\n我記得很清楚就是協助傳統產業投入這個高科技的應用像包括工具機啊如何的這個使用智慧化等等那另一個就是說在賴總統宣示的這個健康台灣的願景之下如何加速這個智慧醫療那高齡科技的這種醫療健康的這種產業的科技化那我想在這裡想要跟主委驗收一下就是說\n\n01:00.468 --> 01:13.821\n這幾個月來您努力的成績那也要請主委簡單說明一下這個這幾個面向上特別您宣示的這幾個面向你覺得現在你有做出哪些有感的重大政策\n\n01:15.438 --> 01:32.666\n第一,我們已經3個月之內規劃了一個智慧科技大南方產業生態系一個新增的方案那也在行政院通過也編列到我們的預算裏面就是明年的預算裏面希望能夠如期的啟動\n\n01:33.926 --> 02:01.888\n那在這個智慧大南方的方案裡面呢我們會結合從嘉義以南一直到屏東那座落在我們的這個沙倫的這個科學城這個地方國科會本來就已經有投資那未來會再投資一個新的這個所以這個智慧大南方的這個類似這種科學城裡面你具體要實施的就是所謂您剛講的這些\n\n02:03.729 --> 02:26.621\n會鏈接百工百業,除了我們已經有的科技產業之外,我們會把需求端包含到服務業以及傳統的製造業,我們都希望能夠協助他們,協助他們可以做數位轉型跟智慧化,把我們的主權AI建起來,讓他們能夠受益,發展我們自主的AI應用的這些系統,我們會做這個事。\n\n02:29.362 --> 02:55.948\n另外當然今天非常多的委員在關注就是有超過600個學者對於這個來連署呼籲我們國科會要重新重視永續發展跨域的研究那我想剛剛也聽您做一些的這個澄清跟解釋那我想這個科研要永續不只是這個政策層面的宣示跟目標的訂定而已\n\n02:56.708 --> 03:07.498\n國科會怎麼樣注重跟學界的溝通跟建立互信我想這一部分是非常非常的重要所以我們當然您的曾經有表示說要團結來面對跨域的難題不過就誠如本席剛剛提到的引領科學發展的這個國科會應該要加強跟各層面的有效溝通跟互信\n\n03:22.472 --> 03:47.257\n你才能確保這個系統性的政策的建置跟這個恰當的這個資源分配所以我在這邊還是要提醒主委你應該跟產學研各界要做一些溝通的清除那會不會有資源重新的配置或政策定位能不能被外界理解等等的疑慮那我想這部分你到底現在有沒有把握會做好溝通的工作\n\n03:48.070 --> 04:03.008\n我們會努力做好溝通不是努力有沒有把握有把握啦因為我也不是壞人啦所以我想大家會諒解我會盡力去溝通從我們基層研究的學者\n\n04:04.745 --> 04:31.883\n你不是壞人那我想你是好人好人不一定會做好的事所以其實你要有把握你有努力可是不一定能成功所以要有把握能掌握你能去補充疑慮的地方也要有把握能做好溝通這部分很重要今天很多委員都在關心這件事情是我知道所以我會努力去做我是有把握的但是\n\n04:32.563 --> 04:49.036\n那結果當然取決於最後大家是不是信任我所以我覺得是沒問題啦因為今天委員溝通的事情我覺得原來負面的意圖其實都不存在所以我是很有信心大家會認同\n\n04:50.057 --> 05:14.978\n期待您再來的處理狀況另外就是談及這個永續科研我想環境的永續的地位應該被優先看待那同樣是上個會期的質詢中有關於科學園區事業廢棄物再利用率的問題我們從行政院本會期的施政報告中有得知接近今年6月底\n\n05:15.618 --> 05:31.343\n三個園區的試驗廢棄物的再利用率有高達9494%那上次本席在質詢這個題目的時候就是主委你有提到你們會將園區廠商一起協力一樣將這個試驗廢棄物的再利用率達到100%你上次有這樣誇下海口往這個目標邁進那目前不曉得努力了怎麼樣\n\n05:41.752 --> 05:55.442\n我們持續在進行中科管理局已經跟台積電合作把相關的這個台積電的協力廠商集中在園區裡面做一個叫零費製造中心那由台積電來輔導這些廠商\n\n06:16.944 --> 06:16.964\n好．\n\n06:39.008 --> 06:39.068\n林宜瑾議員\n\n06:54.199 --> 06:54.339\n委員會主席\n\n07:11.860 --> 07:32.076\n我們的成果其實是世界這個數一數二可是不過在設計上我想我們可能還沒有開拓自己的一片天下所以當然我們要肯定國科會有跨出這一大步那現在就是說我們針對是否如期可以營運那國科會不久前有表示說針對這個金創方案的執行方向包括國際合作的這個策略\n\n07:37.600 --> 07:37.760\n主委．\n\n07:54.501 --> 08:21.369\n報告委員,我們並沒有終止。需要調整。調整的原因是因為最近捷克也有選舉的事情。我們當初接任的時候也是新手。所以雙方的人員要互相認識再溝通經過一段時間。然後在捷克因為它是一個執政聯盟有很多的政黨是一起執政的。\n\n08:21.909 --> 08:43.250\n所以他們對於這個我們設立的這種合作的機制也有不同的意見那不同意見並不是說我們要終止而是他們還在討論怎麼樣做是比較好那也跟我們在溝通當中那可能本來本來是9月要接牌的等等我們可能只是延到也許在年底年底之前一定會一定會完成好完成這個那除了捷克這個點以外\n\n08:46.693 --> 09:06.028\n我們現在的策略我已經很明確定了我們半導體在國際合作策略這個策略就是利用我們半導體製造的優勢我們目前選定的這個區域包含日本包含美國還有在德國因為我們台積電的這個設廠所需要的這個人才是非常非常多\n\n09:06.708 --> 09:31.999\n對那透過我們跟這些有好國家的學員的合作來培養我們台積電需要的人才這個人才其實在我們台灣不只在我們台灣在那個德國製造基地以及它的整個供應鏈在日本在美國都有所以透過國科會的這個機制對台積電的這個永續發展其實非常重要我們會加強這一點所以不只捷克我們在德國\n\n09:32.719 --> 09:33.240\n林宜瑾林宜瑾\n\n09:48.416 --> 10:14.611\n好繼續加油那我想談到永續科研我們就不得不談到近期這個席捲而來的這個AI浪潮喔自然期間有登出一篇AI研究研究團隊有發現說早期的AI模型喔遇到不懂的問題它比較會迴避那升級過後的這個版本它會出現一些湖州答案的情形喔\n\n10:15.611 --> 10:33.585\n他們分析了三大語言模型像說openAI的GPT或者Meta就是臉書的LLAMA還有就是Bloom那我想發現越來越大的語言模型回答的精準度當然確實有上升\n\n10:34.986 --> 10:52.976\n但這些不精確的答案中其實錯誤的比例也有上升那有專家指出說可能是因為未給AI模型訓練的語料不見得完全正確以及模型本身也不見得可以篩掉這些資訊錯誤的假象這關係那對於這篇期刊所針對的模型當然已經是2004年\n\n10:59.580 --> 11:04.481\n國科會開發的Tide模型有辦法迴避掉我們現在這些疑慮嗎?那我們要如何去定期檢查或者未給他大量的資料可是\n\n11:27.785 --> 11:27.925\n主席\n\n11:57.705 --> 11:57.865\n主委、主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.629,"end":6.351,"text":"主委,您剛上任的時候曾表示說要拚三個月的有感政績那在上個會期我們國科會初次您來業務報告的時候主委您也曾跟本席來具體描述你將優先推動的這個幾個面向一個"},{"start":30.126,"end":47.098,"text":"我記得很清楚就是協助傳統產業投入這個高科技的應用像包括工具機啊如何的這個使用智慧化等等那另一個就是說在賴總統宣示的這個健康台灣的願景之下如何加速這個智慧醫療那高齡科技的這種醫療健康的這種產業的科技化那我想在這裡想要跟主委驗收一下就是說"},{"start":60.468,"end":73.821,"text":"這幾個月來您努力的成績那也要請主委簡單說明一下這個這幾個面向上特別您宣示的這幾個面向你覺得現在你有做出哪些有感的重大政策"},{"start":75.438,"end":92.666,"text":"第一,我們已經3個月之內規劃了一個智慧科技大南方產業生態系一個新增的方案那也在行政院通過也編列到我們的預算裏面就是明年的預算裏面希望能夠如期的啟動"},{"start":93.926,"end":121.888,"text":"那在這個智慧大南方的方案裡面呢我們會結合從嘉義以南一直到屏東那座落在我們的這個沙倫的這個科學城這個地方國科會本來就已經有投資那未來會再投資一個新的這個所以這個智慧大南方的這個類似這種科學城裡面你具體要實施的就是所謂您剛講的這些"},{"start":123.729,"end":146.621,"text":"會鏈接百工百業,除了我們已經有的科技產業之外,我們會把需求端包含到服務業以及傳統的製造業,我們都希望能夠協助他們,協助他們可以做數位轉型跟智慧化,把我們的主權AI建起來,讓他們能夠受益,發展我們自主的AI應用的這些系統,我們會做這個事。"},{"start":149.362,"end":175.948,"text":"另外當然今天非常多的委員在關注就是有超過600個學者對於這個來連署呼籲我們國科會要重新重視永續發展跨域的研究那我想剛剛也聽您做一些的這個澄清跟解釋那我想這個科研要永續不只是這個政策層面的宣示跟目標的訂定而已"},{"start":176.708,"end":187.498,"text":"國科會怎麼樣注重跟學界的溝通跟建立互信我想這一部分是非常非常的重要所以我們當然您的曾經有表示說要團結來面對跨域的難題不過就誠如本席剛剛提到的引領科學發展的這個國科會應該要加強跟各層面的有效溝通跟互信"},{"start":202.472,"end":227.257,"text":"你才能確保這個系統性的政策的建置跟這個恰當的這個資源分配所以我在這邊還是要提醒主委你應該跟產學研各界要做一些溝通的清除那會不會有資源重新的配置或政策定位能不能被外界理解等等的疑慮那我想這部分你到底現在有沒有把握會做好溝通的工作"},{"start":228.07,"end":243.008,"text":"我們會努力做好溝通不是努力 有沒有把握有把握啦 因為我也不是壞人啦所以我想大家會諒解我會盡力去溝通從我們基層研究的學者"},{"start":244.745,"end":271.883,"text":"你不是壞人那我想你是好人好人不一定會做好的事所以其實你要有把握你有努力可是不一定能成功所以要有把握能掌握你能去補充疑慮的地方也要有把握能做好溝通這部分很重要今天很多委員都在關心這件事情是我知道所以我會努力去做我是有把握的但是"},{"start":272.563,"end":289.036,"text":"那結果當然取決於最後大家是不是信任我所以我覺得是沒問題啦因為今天委員溝通的事情我覺得原來負面的意圖其實都不存在所以我是很有信心大家會認同"},{"start":290.057,"end":314.978,"text":"期待您再來的處理狀況另外就是談及這個永續科研我想環境的永續的地位應該被優先看待那同樣是上個會期的質詢中有關於科學園區事業廢棄物再利用率的問題我們從行政院本會期的施政報告中有得知接近今年6月底"},{"start":315.618,"end":331.343,"text":"三個園區的試驗廢棄物的再利用率有高達9494%那上次本席在質詢這個題目的時候就是主委你有提到你們會將園區廠商一起協力一樣將這個試驗廢棄物的再利用率達到100%你上次有這樣誇下海口往這個目標邁進那目前不曉得努力了怎麼樣"},{"start":341.752,"end":355.442,"text":"我們持續在進行中科管理局已經跟台積電合作把相關的這個台積電的協力廠商集中在園區裡面做一個叫零費製造中心那由台積電來輔導這些廠商"},{"start":358.524,"end":376.664,"text":"﹗"},{"start":376.944,"end":376.964,"text":"好．"},{"start":399.008,"end":399.068,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":414.199,"end":414.339,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":431.86,"end":452.076,"text":"我們的成果其實是世界這個數一數二可是不過在設計上我想我們可能還沒有開拓自己的一片天下所以當然我們要肯定國科會有跨出這一大步那現在就是說我們針對是否如期可以營運那國科會不久前有表示說針對這個金創方案的執行方向包括國際合作的這個策略"},{"start":457.6,"end":457.76,"text":"主委．"},{"start":474.501,"end":501.369,"text":"報告委員,我們並沒有終止。需要調整。調整的原因是因為最近捷克也有選舉的事情。我們當初接任的時候也是新手。所以雙方的人員要互相認識再溝通經過一段時間。然後在捷克因為它是一個執政聯盟有很多的政黨是一起執政的。"},{"start":501.909,"end":523.25,"text":"所以他們對於這個我們設立的這種合作的機制也有不同的意見那不同意見並不是說我們要終止而是他們還在討論怎麼樣做是比較好那也跟我們在溝通當中那可能本來本來是9月要接牌的等等我們可能只是延到也許在年底年底之前一定會一定會完成好完成這個那除了捷克這個點以外"},{"start":526.693,"end":546.028,"text":"我們現在的策略我已經很明確定了我們半導體在國際合作策略這個策略就是利用我們半導體製造的優勢我們目前選定的這個區域包含日本包含美國還有在德國因為我們台積電的這個設廠所需要的這個人才是非常非常多"},{"start":546.708,"end":571.999,"text":"對那透過我們跟這些有好國家的學員的合作來培養我們台積電需要的人才這個人才其實在我們台灣不只在我們台灣在那個德國製造基地以及它的整個供應鏈在日本在美國都有所以透過國科會的這個機制對台積電的這個永續發展其實非常重要我們會加強這一點所以不只捷克我們在德國"},{"start":572.719,"end":573.24,"text":"林宜瑾 林宜瑾"},{"start":588.416,"end":614.611,"text":"好繼續加油那我想談到永續科研我們就不得不談到近期這個席捲而來的這個AI浪潮喔自然期間有登出一篇AI研究研究團隊有發現說早期的AI模型喔遇到不懂的問題它比較會迴避那升級過後的這個版本它會出現一些湖州答案的情形喔"},{"start":615.611,"end":633.585,"text":"他們分析了三大語言模型像說openAI的GPT或者Meta就是臉書的LLAMA還有就是Bloom那我想發現越來越大的語言模型回答的精準度當然確實有上升"},{"start":634.986,"end":652.976,"text":"但這些不精確的答案中其實錯誤的比例也有上升那有專家指出說可能是因為未給AI模型訓練的語料不見得完全正確以及模型本身也不見得可以篩掉這些資訊錯誤的假象這關係那對於這篇期刊所針對的模型當然已經是2004年"},{"start":659.58,"end":664.481,"text":"國科會開發的Tide模型有辦法迴避掉我們現在這些疑慮嗎?那我們要如何去定期檢查或者未給他大量的資料可是"},{"start":687.785,"end":687.925,"text":"主席"},{"start":717.705,"end":717.865,"text":"主委、主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:29:35 - 11:42:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":154990,"gazette":{"lineno":815,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（11時29分）謝謝主席，有請吳主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：林委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：主委好。主委，你剛上任的時候曾表示說要拼三個月的有感政績，在上個會期您代表國科會初次來進行業務報告的時候，主委也曾跟本席具體描述你將優先推動的幾個面向，我記得很清楚，其中一個就是協助傳統產業投入高科技的應用，包括工具機如何使用的智慧化等等，另一個就是在賴總統宣示的健康台灣的願景之下，如何加速智慧醫療、高齡科技的醫療健康產業的科技化。我想在這裡跟主委驗收一下這幾個月來您努力的成績，也要請主委簡單說明一下，這幾個面向上，特別您宣示的這幾個面向，你覺得現在你有做出哪些有感的重大政策？"],["吳主任委員誠文：第一，我們在三個月之內已經規劃了一個智慧科技大南方產業生態系，一個新增的方案，也在行政院通過，也編列到我們的預算裡面，就是有編列在明年的預算裡面，希望能夠如期的啟動。在這個智慧大南方的方案裡面，我們會結合從嘉義以南到一直到屏東，坐落在沙崙的科學城，這個地方國科會本來就已經有投資，未來會再投資一個新的資料中心……"],["林委員宜瑾：所以這個智慧大南方，在類似這種科學城裡面，你具體要實施的就是所謂您剛剛講的這些……"],["吳主任委員誠文：會鏈結百工百業，就是除了我們已經有的科技產業之外，我們會把需求端，包含到服務業，以及傳統的製造業，我們都希望能協助他們可以做數位轉型跟智慧化，把我們的主權AI建起來，讓他們能夠受益，發展我們自主的AI應用的這些系統，我們會做這個事。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，OK。另外，今天非常多委員在關注的是有超過600個學者連署呼籲國科會要重新重視永續發展的跨域研究，剛剛也聽您做了一些的澄清跟解釋，我想科研要永續，不只是政策層面的宣示跟目標的訂定而已，國科會怎麼樣注重跟學界的溝通及建立互信，我想這個部分也是非常非常的重要。當然，您的澄清有表示要團結來面對跨域的難題，不過就誠如本席剛剛提到的，引領科學發展的國科會應該要加強跟各層面的有效溝通跟互信，你才能確保系統性政策的建置跟恰當的資源分配。所以我在這邊還是要提醒主委，你應該跟產、學、研各界要溝通清楚，會不會有資源重新的配置或政策定位能不能被外界理解等等的疑慮，這個部分你到底現在有沒有把握會做好溝通的工作？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們會努力做好溝通，就是說……"],["林委員宜瑾：不是努力，有沒有把握？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有把握啦，因為我也不是壞人啊，哈哈！所以我想大家會諒解，我會盡力去溝通，從我們基層研究的學者，我會……"],["林委員宜瑾：不是，你不是壞人，我想你是好人，可是好人不一定會做好事，所以其實……"],["吳主任委員誠文：好人不會做壞……"],["林委員宜瑾：你要有把握，你有努力，可是不一定能成功，所以要有把握能掌握你能去補充疑慮的地方，也要有把握能做好溝通，這部分很重要，因為今天很多委員都在關心這件事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我知道，所以我會努力去做。我是有把握，但是結果當然取決於最後大家是不是信任我，所以我覺得是沒問題啦。"],["林委員宜瑾：你要有自信說你有把握……"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為今天今天委員溝通的事情，我覺得原來負面的那個意圖其實都不存在，所以我很有信心，大家會認同。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，期待您再來的處理狀況。另外，談及永續的科研，我想環境永續的地位應該被優先看待，同樣是上個會期的質詢中，有關於科學園區事業廢棄物再利用率的問題，我們從行政院本會期的施政報告中得知，截至今年6月底，三個園區的事業廢棄物再利用率高達94%，上次本席在質詢這個題目的時候，主委你有提到，你們會跟園區廠商一起協力將事業廢棄物的再利用率達到百分之百，你上次有這樣誇下海口，要往這個目標邁進，那不曉得目前努力得怎麼樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們持續在進行，中科管理局已經跟台積電合作，把台積電相關的協力廠商集中在園區裡面，做一個叫「零廢製造中心」，由台積電來輔導這些廠商，目標就是真的是要做到百分之百，當然，最後還會產生一些固態的廢棄物，那是無毒的固態廢棄物，就可以符合我們的法規標準運出園區，目標就是不要把污染的水、氣體送到外面去處理，而是在園區內就可以把它處理好。那我們在南科管理局，現在也正在建置相同的「零廢製造中心」，希望將來我們科學園區新的園區的發展，都要用同樣的標準去做事業廢棄物的再利用以及廢棄物的減少、減量。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，這部分很期待未來能達到百分百。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["林委員宜瑾：為了使臺灣的科技發展能立足國際，剛剛有委員垂詢行政院提出的「晶創臺灣方案」，不只是本島的產創環境品質提升，我們也看到國科會選擇要到捷克布拉格打造臺灣第一座IC設計的海外訓練基地。在半導體產業裡面，臺灣不管在製造、代工方面的成果，其實是世界數一數二，不過在設計上，我想我們可能還沒有開拓自己的一片天下，所以當然我們要肯定國科會跨出這一大步。現在就是說針對是否可以如期營運，國科會不久前表示，針對晶創方案的執行方向，包括國際合作策略將重新進行規劃跟調整。所以我要請教主委，有關晶創前進基地沒有辦法如期來營運，目前到底要進行什麼樣的規劃跟調整？未來是否還會規劃更多這類的前進基地？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，我們並沒有終止，這個只是因為……"],["林委員宜瑾：你們說要調整嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：需要調整，調整的原因是因為最近捷克也有選舉的事情，那我們當初接任的時候也是新手，所以雙方的人員要經過一段時間互相認識再溝通；然後因為捷克政府是一個執政聯盟，有很多政黨一起執政，所以他們對於雙方的合作機制也有不同的意見。不同的意見並不是說我們要終止，而是他們還在討論怎麼樣做比較好，也跟我們在溝通當中，本來是9月要揭牌的，我們可能只是延到也許在年底，年底之前一定會完成這個計畫。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。那除了捷克這個點以外……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在的策略，我已經很明確的擬定我們半導體的國際合作策略，就是利用我們半導體製造的優勢。我們目前選定的區域包含日本、美國還有德國，因為台積電設廠所需要的人才非常非常多，我們要透過跟這些友好國家的學研合作來培養台積電需要的人才。這個人才其實不只在我們臺灣，在德國製造基地以及它的整個供應鏈，在日本、在美國都有，所以透過國科會的機制來培養人才，對台積電的永續發展其實非常重要。我們會加強這一點，不只捷克，我們在德國，甚至鄰近的波蘭，對德國廠的人才未來的發展是非常重要。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，就一步一步前進基地一直往外邁進就對了。"],["吳主任委員誠文：一步一步，重點就是我們支持學界跟他們那邊學界合作培養人才是非常的重要。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，繼續加油。我想談到永續科研，我們就不得不談到近期席捲而來的AI浪潮。自然期刊有登出一篇AI研究，研究團隊有發現，早期的AI模型遇到不懂的問題比較會迴避，但升級過後的版本會出現一些胡謅答案的情形。他們分析了三大語言模型，像OpenAI的GPT或者Meta，就是臉書的LLaMA，還有就是BLOOM，發現越來越大的語言模型，回答的精準度當然確實有上升，可是這些不精確的答案中，其實錯誤的比例也有上升。有專家指出，可能是因為餵給AI模型的訓練語料不見得完全正確，以及模型本身也不見得可以篩掉錯誤的資訊假象的關係。當然這篇期刊所針對的模型是2023年投稿時的AI模型，而最新銳的AI模型還不一定有相關的研究出爐，可是這是不是給我們世界一個警訊，就是AI的可靠性容我們質疑，那我們國科會開發的TAIDE模型有辦法迴避掉這些疑慮嗎？我們要如何去定期檢查或者餵給它大量的資料，可是要掌握這些資料的正確性？主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員，委員講得的確很重要，因為一般新的模型出來，特別是這種通用的模型，它的訓練資料不見得符合我們自己的需求，所以有時候我們問它一些問題，它不見得答得很好，的確是有這樣的現象，這是為什麼我們要發展主權AI的原因。我們用臺灣自己的資料訓練自己的模型，這個模型將來應用到我們自己的社會，它的準確度是可以提高的，而且我們把這個模型優化以後，也不要用原來通用的這種非常大型的模型，可以節省我們的能源，不要太浪費能源，將來我們自己主權AI的發展會朝這個方向走。謝謝委員。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，所以就是剛剛講的這些疑慮，未來我們自己開發的TAIDE模型一定要去避免掉……"],["吳主任委員誠文：可以避免掉，是。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾委員的質詢，吳主委請回座。","請洪申翰委員質詢，質詢時間5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}