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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"邏\"}, {\"word\": \"輯\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 715.155, \"end\": 715.275, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 715.275, \"end\": 715.435, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 715.435, \"end\": 715.596, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 715.596, \"end\": 715.776, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 715.776, \"end\": 715.876, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 715.876, \"end\": 715.976, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 715.976, \"end\": 716.156, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 716.156, \"end\": 716.376, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 716.376, \"end\": 716.637, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 716.637, \"end\": 716.797, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 716.797, \"end\": 716.957, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 716.957, 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877.042, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 877.042, \"end\": 877.663, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"薪\", \"start\": 877.663, \"end\": 878.403, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 878.403, \"end\": 878.543, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 878.543, \"end\": 878.983, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 878.983, \"end\": 879.863, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 879.863, \"end\": 880.183, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 880.183, \"end\": 880.303, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 880.303, \"end\": 880.363, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 880.363, \"end\": 880.883, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 880.883, \"end\": 881.043, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 881.043, \"end\": 881.164, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 881.164, \"end\": 882.024, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 882.024, \"end\": 882.224, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 882.224, \"end\": 882.524, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 882.524, \"end\": 882.904, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 882.904, \"end\": 883.064, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 883.064, \"end\": 883.264, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 883.264, \"end\": 883.604, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 883.604, \"end\": 884.164, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 884.164, \"end\": 884.284, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 884.284, \"end\": 884.504, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 884.504, \"end\": 884.604, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 884.604, \"end\": 884.785, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 884.785, \"end\": 884.965, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 884.965, \"end\": 884.985, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 884.985, \"end\": 885.045, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 885.045, \"end\": 885.065, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 886.525, \"end\": 886.585, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 886.585, \"end\": 886.605, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 886.605, \"end\": 886.625, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,529 --> 00:00:12,000\n現在有請吳昭偉中線委員質詢有請人事長昭偉早\n\n2\n00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:32,601\n人事長早人事長首先先請教老問題就是假官助理法制化之後那你在這邊可不可以簡單說明一下到底會不會排擠到總額\n\n3\n00:00:35,104 --> 00:00:53,801\n我跟委員報告一下檢察官助理這一次的修法裡面他有特別提到聘用跟業用檢察官如果是業用檢察官就不會排擠到延額如果是聘用的檢察官就會排擠到延額主要的差別在這裡讓他在使用上有彈性\n\n4\n00:00:55,694 --> 00:01:23,223\n法務部長前一天我有跟他提到談到這個部分那這可能就再麻煩你們多幫忙看能夠讓法務部怎麼樣運作上面能夠更順利一點好不好因為這問題上回請問過好幾次我跟趙偉報告大概目前大概他們已經有已經用了250位的業用的檢察官助理了\n\n5\n00:01:23,743 --> 00:01:31,431\n那未來到底要用多少?是要用業用的還是聘用的?我想我們也尊重法務部\n\n6\n00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:35,121\n目前我們國家到底是依據什麼法令來讓公私立學校還有公家機關放颱風架\n\n7\n00:02:02,205 --> 00:02:26,075\n事實上我跟召委報告根本我們沒有所謂的颱風架根本目前的所有的架別沒有一個叫颱風架只是說交通不便由各個地方政府或者學校基於他的首屬的同仁或學生的安全他們實施就是不用來上班上課的\n\n8\n00:02:29,458 --> 00:02:37,147\n我幫您補充各縣市政府是依據天然災害停止上班上課作為辦法是用這個辦法但是裡面還有一個規定說這是人事總處\n\n9\n00:02:45,537 --> 00:02:47,759\n市府的首長其實對這件事是很痛苦的放與不放是很痛苦的\n\n10\n00:03:05,612 --> 00:03:28,899\n我跟召委報告一下,事實上從民國83年我們就授權地方政府,因為地方政府的那種差異性,你像管政府會對鄉鎮公售,你像今天蘭嶼就放假,那我人總我怎麼有辦法去直接去幫蘭嶼在即時去用那個放假的這樣的一個措施,事實上\n\n11\n00:03:29,679 --> 00:03:56,463\n我們定這個辦法是授權給地方政府當然剛才趙委提的就是像今天今天大家就有些人就會有一些期待嘛反正每一次的可能有颱風進來大家就有一些期待那個期望值高還是低的問題不過這個到最後為了讓他有效力還是要授權地方政府第一線的人他比較清楚\n\n12\n00:03:59,387 --> 00:04:23,780\n但是這個有時候我覺得齁未來這個天然災害的價如果說是由中央來統一做一個全國性的盤點這個會不會比較好因為地方縣市首長的決策那他們背負了很大的壓力阿我早晚報告啦其實7月30號我們就有找所有地方政委來開過會阿他們結論還是要自己決定啦\n\n13\n00:04:28,291 --> 00:04:55,005\n因為他覺得中央訂全國的遊戲規則那個有些地方因為有時風頭但是路好好但是有風風風沒大但是那個路回去嘛回去稍微已經地方政府比我們還清楚嘛他地方就可以自己去做這個決定鄉鎮工作也好好好也好他就可以去停了嘛這樣好有彈性啦7月30號開會的結論是他們還是要自己決定\n\n14\n00:04:57,967 --> 00:05:24,225\n還是中央的意思還是地方政府自己要求?對,他們要求啊,不然他們會去罵啊這部分跟我在市府待過的經驗值不一樣其實常常他們市長在決策要不要放假他們是想破腦袋到底要還是不要因為有時候他放了然後隔天又出大太陽這個都很常發生嘛\n\n15\n00:05:25,171 --> 00:05:25,191\n吳宗憲議員\n\n16\n00:05:44,165 --> 00:05:44,966\n公務人員離職跟自殺創新高\n\n17\n00:06:13,985 --> 00:06:16,267\n國軍在113年到6月底為止也有12個人自殺有關國軍以外,公務員有沒有什麼想法?\n\n18\n00:06:36,679 --> 00:06:54,363\n公務人員的自殺我們有統計大概每10萬人大概3點多到6點多這個range每一年的情況不太一樣那全國民眾的話大概每10萬人大概有13到16反而公務機關相對於一般\n\n19\n00:06:55,904 --> 00:07:09,579\n總人民總國民的比例還是相對比較低啦這個是實際的數據呈現是這樣第二個就是說我們政府機關事實上也是一直在挖起一個點就是說\n\n20\n00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:32,737\n最近這幾年大家那種心理的壓力會造成一些遺憾的事情發生所以我們也在強化整個政府機關EAP員工協助方案能夠更落實更擴大地去協助那一些需要幫助的人因為有些人是隱性的他們說出來你不知道嘛所以我們也希望說當委\n\n21\n00:07:34,438 --> 00:07:35,880\n但是這個也是老問題啦,人事長這也是老問題\n\n22\n00:07:53,302 --> 00:07:53,322\n吳宗憲\n\n23\n00:08:08,934 --> 00:08:10,015\n那其實你剛剛一直有在提到說是\n\n24\n00:08:36,377 --> 00:09:04,245\n是從那個紀念日及節日實施辦法這個部分來的嘛但是這個是規範勞工啊不是我意思是說他所提到的勞動節他並沒有說公務員不能放勞動節嘛因為我跟你講齁我看了一下齁沒關係我們先看下一張那個powerpoint\n\n25\n00:09:09,565 --> 00:09:13,769\n今天是跟節日實施辦法第5條第2項所提到的勞動節的勞工放假那我看這個應該是從勞基法的第2條跟第37條所提到的勞動節而來的嘛\n\n26\n00:09:33,530 --> 00:09:58,662\n但是這個紀念日跟節日實施辦法第5條他並沒有說勞動節這個東西只有這個公務員不能夠一起放啊那你為什麼當作說因為這個所以公務員不行然後另外就是說因為我去看了其他的國家比如說以美國為例好了他的勞動節是9月的第一個星期一那他這個也是全國一起放\n\n27\n00:10:00,695 --> 00:10:17,584\n所以我不知道說為什麼這個東西在我們台灣好像變成是一個一個你是卡住自己所以這公務員不能夠一起放然後導致現在很多家庭你也知道嘛很多家庭現在都雙薪家庭啊然後變成說小孩放假父母沒有放的問題發生啊\n\n28\n00:10:19,434 --> 00:10:41,776\n就是昭緯你那個投影片這裡寫的齁在紀念日及節日實施辦法的第5條第2項勞動節他就寫勞工放假嘛你覺得勞工可以放假他沒有嘛所以要剛才改嘛要改掉我們的形式律就會跟著這個來改了吧因為他只有identify很明確的寫勞工放假\n\n29\n00:10:43,624 --> 00:10:49,051\n法律並沒有禁止你們去做你們立法的動作\n\n30\n00:10:52,506 --> 00:11:07,372\n因為他對他確實有講這個勞工放假那我翻了所有的法條大概從勞基法這邊能夠比較找到他的依據但是沒有沒有說你們不能夠提出對於行政院這邊去做出其他的修法的建議啊還是你們認為說是上限的問題假日上限的問題\n\n31\n00:11:14,525 --> 00:11:34,495\n上線的問題就是那個19年6月30號啊大宴的附帶決議有寫啊我們一年大概115到116人長這更不對你看一下齁89年這附帶決議啊他是在陳述一件事實啊所以內政部內政部他他有他的那個\n\n32\n00:11:36,936 --> 00:11:58,058\n放假一日可行性報告裡面他自己去解釋立法院的附帶決議叫做上限其實我對內政部的這個報告我是覺得不以為然所以你不能就直接引用他們這個邏輯我跟你講你自己看我們現在包括你上面的字\n\n33\n00:11:59,059 --> 00:12:26,350\n我們談到的115至116日這個東西是在陳述放假總日數的一個事實狀況並不是說去加一個限制欸你們不能這樣亂解釋這將來我也會跟內政部討論這個問題啊那如果你說你說這個這個叫做限制那為什麼會有115或116兩種不同的規格那如果你是說這跟論年或平年有關的話那我跟你講\n\n34\n00:12:27,310 --> 00:12:44,868\n今年是115天但今年是論年那為什麼是115那明年明年是平年但是有116天所以這115跟116這不是上限嘛如果是上限一定是一個標準數字\n\n35\n00:12:46,533 --> 00:13:01,707\n那如果你說唯一有可能是平年論年的差別但是我剛剛跟你講了今年跟去年也是平年跟論年但是也跟115、116無關嘛所以你們不能動不動就拿這個當作是放假的上限\n\n36\n00:13:03,393 --> 00:13:27,653\n你剛講的我就謝謝趙偉啦其實這件事我覺得我也是尊重內政部的認知啦因為罵帳套也是他要套嘛今日節日時事辦法他如果把五一他不要寫勞工那很多東西就清楚了嘛那問題他就把你寫在那啊這幾天他在頂的還不是我們頂的啊我們又不能用立法把它塗掉啊\n\n37\n00:13:31,556 --> 00:13:36,681\n他確實是有勞工但是他是為了保障勞工而來對不對但是他並沒有立法做其他的限制所以你們也應該做你們該做的事你也要保障公務員啊\n\n38\n00:13:53,217 --> 00:13:54,418\n我們不是被騙我們是尊重他弄錯你也尊重啦\n\n39\n00:14:24,819 --> 00:14:45,065\n主管機關啦好啦最後我跟你們講一下齁就是那個雖然這一次我們有說讓這個總預算退回這個程序委員會但你們不要擔心這跟加薪3%這個沒有關係啦今天國民黨已經點出是哪幾個問題了那剛剛因為我想你剛剛在回答其他委員的問題的時候\n\n40\n00:14:46,525 --> 00:14:46,625\n謝謝吳總召謝謝人事長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n529\t12000\t現在有請吳昭偉中線委員質詢有請人事長昭偉早\n20680\t32601\t人事長早 人事長首先先請教老問題就是假官助理法制化之後那你在這邊可不可以簡單說明一下到底會不會排擠到總額\n35104\t53801\t我跟委員報告一下 檢察官助理這一次的修法裡面他有特別提到聘用跟業用檢察官如果是業用檢察官就不會排擠到延額 如果是聘用的檢察官就會排擠到延額主要的差別在這裡 讓他在使用上有彈性\n55694\t83223\t法務部長前一天我有跟他提到談到這個部分那這可能就再麻煩你們多幫忙看能夠讓法務部怎麼樣運作上面能夠更順利一點好不好因為這問題上回請問過好幾次我跟趙偉報告大概目前大概他們已經有已經用了250位的業用的檢察官助理了\n83743\t91431\t那未來到底要用多少?是要用業用的還是聘用的?我想我們也尊重法務部\n92759\t95121\t目前我們國家到底是依據什麼法令來讓公私立學校還有公家機關放颱風架\n122205\t146075\t事實上我跟召委報告根本我們沒有所謂的颱風架根本目前的所有的架別沒有一個叫颱風架只是說交通不便由各個地方政府或者學校基於他的首屬的同仁或學生的安全他們實施就是不用來上班上課的\n149458\t157147\t我幫您補充各縣市政府是依據天然災害停止上班上課作為辦法是用這個辦法但是裡面還有一個規定說這是人事總處\n165537\t167759\t市府的首長其實對這件事是很痛苦的放與不放是很痛苦的\n185612\t208899\t我跟召委報告一下,事實上從民國83年我們就授權地方政府,因為地方政府的那種差異性,你像管政府會對鄉鎮公售,你像今天蘭嶼就放假,那我人總我怎麼有辦法去直接去幫蘭嶼在即時去用那個放假的這樣的一個措施,事實上\n209679\t236463\t我們定這個辦法是授權給地方政府當然剛才趙委提的就是像今天今天大家就有些人就會有一些期待嘛反正每一次的可能有颱風進來大家就有一些期待那個期望值高還是低的問題不過這個到最後為了讓他有效力還是要授權地方政府第一線的人他比較清楚\n239387\t263780\t但是這個有時候我覺得齁未來這個天然災害的價如果說是由中央來統一做一個全國性的盤點這個會不會比較好因為地方縣市首長的決策那他們背負了很大的壓力阿我早晚報告啦其實7月30號我們就有找所有地方政委來開過會阿他們結論還是要自己決定啦\n268291\t295005\t因為他覺得中央訂全國的遊戲規則那個有些地方因為有時風頭但是路好好但是有風風風沒大但是那個路回去嘛回去稍微已經地方政府比我們還清楚嘛他地方就可以自己去做這個決定鄉鎮工作也好好好也好他就可以去停了嘛這樣好有彈性啦7月30號開會的結論是他們還是要自己決定\n297967\t324225\t還是中央的意思還是地方政府自己要求?對,他們要求啊,不然他們會去罵啊這部分跟我在市府待過的經驗值不一樣其實常常他們市長在決策要不要放假他們是想破腦袋到底要還是不要因為有時候他放了然後隔天又出大太陽這個都很常發生嘛\n325171\t325191\t吳宗憲議員\n344165\t344966\t公務人員離職跟自殺創新高\n373985\t376267\t國軍在113年到6月底為止也有12個人自殺有關國軍以外,公務員有沒有什麼想法?\n396679\t414363\t公務人員的自殺我們有統計大概每10萬人大概3點多到6點多這個range每一年的情況不太一樣那全國民眾的話大概每10萬人大概有13到16反而公務機關相對於一般\n415904\t429579\t總人民總國民的比例還是相對比較低啦這個是實際的數據呈現是這樣第二個就是說我們政府機關事實上也是一直在挖起一個點就是說\n430180\t452737\t最近這幾年大家那種心理的壓力會造成一些遺憾的事情發生所以我們也在強化整個政府機關EAP員工協助方案能夠更落實更擴大地去協助那一些需要幫助的人因為有些人是隱性的他們說出來你不知道嘛所以我們也希望說當委\n454438\t455880\t但是這個也是老問題啦,人事長這也是老問題\n473302\t473322\t吳宗憲\n488934\t490015\t那其實你剛剛一直有在提到說是\n516377\t544245\t是從那個紀念日及節日實施辦法這個部分來的嘛但是這個是規範勞工啊不是我意思是說他所提到的勞動節他並沒有說公務員不能放勞動節嘛因為我跟你講齁我看了一下齁沒關係我們先看下一張那個powerpoint\n549565\t553769\t今天是跟節日實施辦法第5條第2項所提到的勞動節的勞工放假那我看這個應該是從勞基法的第2條跟第37條所提到的勞動節而來的嘛\n573530\t598662\t但是這個紀念日跟節日實施辦法第5條他並沒有說勞動節這個東西只有這個公務員不能夠一起放啊那你為什麼當作說因為這個所以公務員不行然後另外就是說因為我去看了其他的國家比如說以美國為例好了他的勞動節是9月的第一個星期一那他這個也是全國一起放\n600695\t617584\t所以我不知道說為什麼這個東西在我們台灣好像變成是一個一個你是卡住自己所以這公務員不能夠一起放然後導致現在很多家庭你也知道嘛很多家庭現在都雙薪家庭啊然後變成說小孩放假父母沒有放的問題發生啊\n619434\t641776\t就是昭緯你那個投影片這裡寫的齁在紀念日及節日實施辦法的第5條第2項勞動節他就寫勞工放假嘛你覺得勞工可以放假他沒有嘛所以要剛才改嘛要改掉我們的形式律就會跟著這個來改了吧因為他只有identify很明確的寫勞工放假\n643624\t649051\t法律並沒有禁止你們去做你們立法的動作\n652506\t667372\t因為他對他確實有講這個勞工放假那我翻了所有的法條大概從勞基法這邊能夠比較找到他的依據但是沒有沒有說你們不能夠提出對於行政院這邊去做出其他的修法的建議啊還是你們認為說是上限的問題假日上限的問題\n674525\t694495\t上線的問題就是那個19年6月30號啊大宴的附帶決議有寫啊我們一年大概115到116人長這更不對你看一下齁89年這附帶決議啊他是在陳述一件事實啊所以內政部內政部他他有他的那個\n696936\t718058\t放假一日可行性報告裡面他自己去解釋立法院的附帶決議叫做上限其實我對內政部的這個報告我是覺得不以為然所以你不能就直接引用他們這個邏輯我跟你講你自己看我們現在包括你上面的字\n719059\t746350\t我們談到的115至116日這個東西是在陳述放假總日數的一個事實狀況並不是說去加一個限制欸你們不能這樣亂解釋這將來我也會跟內政部討論這個問題啊那如果你說你說這個這個叫做限制那為什麼會有115或116兩種不同的規格那如果你是說這跟論年或平年有關的話那我跟你講\n747310\t764868\t今年是115天但今年是論年那為什麼是115那明年明年是平年但是有116天所以這115跟116這不是上限嘛如果是上限一定是一個標準數字\n766533\t781707\t那如果你說唯一有可能是平年論年的差別但是我剛剛跟你講了今年跟去年也是平年跟論年但是也跟115、116無關嘛所以你們不能動不動就拿這個當作是放假的上限\n783393\t807653\t你剛講的我就謝謝趙偉啦 其實這件事我覺得我也是尊重內政部的認知啦因為罵帳套也是他要套嘛 今日節日時事辦法他如果把五一他不要寫勞工 那很多東西就清楚了嘛那問題他就把你寫在那 啊這幾天他在頂的 還不是我們頂的啊我們又不能用立法把它塗掉啊\n811556\t816681\t他確實是有勞工但是他是為了保障勞工而來對不對但是他並沒有立法做其他的限制所以你們也應該做你們該做的事你也要保障公務員啊\n833217\t834418\t我們不是被騙我們是尊重他弄錯你也尊重啦\n864819\t885065\t主管機關啦好啦最後我跟你們講一下齁就是那個雖然這一次我們有說讓這個總預算退回這個程序委員會但你們不要擔心這跟加薪3%這個沒有關係啦今天國民黨已經點出是哪幾個問題了那剛剛因為我想你剛剛在回答其他委員的問題的時候\n886525\t886625\t謝謝吳總召 謝謝人事長\n","txt":"現在有請吳昭偉中線委員質詢有請人事長昭偉早\n人事長早 人事長首先先請教老問題就是假官助理法制化之後那你在這邊可不可以簡單說明一下到底會不會排擠到總額\n我跟委員報告一下 檢察官助理這一次的修法裡面他有特別提到聘用跟業用檢察官如果是業用檢察官就不會排擠到延額 如果是聘用的檢察官就會排擠到延額主要的差別在這裡 讓他在使用上有彈性\n法務部長前一天我有跟他提到談到這個部分那這可能就再麻煩你們多幫忙看能夠讓法務部怎麼樣運作上面能夠更順利一點好不好因為這問題上回請問過好幾次我跟趙偉報告大概目前大概他們已經有已經用了250位的業用的檢察官助理了\n那未來到底要用多少?是要用業用的還是聘用的?我想我們也尊重法務部\n目前我們國家到底是依據什麼法令來讓公私立學校還有公家機關放颱風架\n事實上我跟召委報告根本我們沒有所謂的颱風架根本目前的所有的架別沒有一個叫颱風架只是說交通不便由各個地方政府或者學校基於他的首屬的同仁或學生的安全他們實施就是不用來上班上課的\n我幫您補充各縣市政府是依據天然災害停止上班上課作為辦法是用這個辦法但是裡面還有一個規定說這是人事總處\n市府的首長其實對這件事是很痛苦的放與不放是很痛苦的\n我跟召委報告一下,事實上從民國83年我們就授權地方政府,因為地方政府的那種差異性,你像管政府會對鄉鎮公售,你像今天蘭嶼就放假,那我人總我怎麼有辦法去直接去幫蘭嶼在即時去用那個放假的這樣的一個措施,事實上\n我們定這個辦法是授權給地方政府當然剛才趙委提的就是像今天今天大家就有些人就會有一些期待嘛反正每一次的可能有颱風進來大家就有一些期待那個期望值高還是低的問題不過這個到最後為了讓他有效力還是要授權地方政府第一線的人他比較清楚\n但是這個有時候我覺得齁未來這個天然災害的價如果說是由中央來統一做一個全國性的盤點這個會不會比較好因為地方縣市首長的決策那他們背負了很大的壓力阿我早晚報告啦其實7月30號我們就有找所有地方政委來開過會阿他們結論還是要自己決定啦\n因為他覺得中央訂全國的遊戲規則那個有些地方因為有時風頭但是路好好但是有風風風沒大但是那個路回去嘛回去稍微已經地方政府比我們還清楚嘛他地方就可以自己去做這個決定鄉鎮工作也好好好也好他就可以去停了嘛這樣好有彈性啦7月30號開會的結論是他們還是要自己決定\n還是中央的意思還是地方政府自己要求?對,他們要求啊,不然他們會去罵啊這部分跟我在市府待過的經驗值不一樣其實常常他們市長在決策要不要放假他們是想破腦袋到底要還是不要因為有時候他放了然後隔天又出大太陽這個都很常發生嘛\n吳宗憲議員\n公務人員離職跟自殺創新高\n國軍在113年到6月底為止也有12個人自殺有關國軍以外,公務員有沒有什麼想法?\n公務人員的自殺我們有統計大概每10萬人大概3點多到6點多這個range每一年的情況不太一樣那全國民眾的話大概每10萬人大概有13到16反而公務機關相對於一般\n總人民總國民的比例還是相對比較低啦這個是實際的數據呈現是這樣第二個就是說我們政府機關事實上也是一直在挖起一個點就是說\n最近這幾年大家那種心理的壓力會造成一些遺憾的事情發生所以我們也在強化整個政府機關EAP員工協助方案能夠更落實更擴大地去協助那一些需要幫助的人因為有些人是隱性的他們說出來你不知道嘛所以我們也希望說當委\n但是這個也是老問題啦,人事長這也是老問題\n吳宗憲\n那其實你剛剛一直有在提到說是\n是從那個紀念日及節日實施辦法這個部分來的嘛但是這個是規範勞工啊不是我意思是說他所提到的勞動節他並沒有說公務員不能放勞動節嘛因為我跟你講齁我看了一下齁沒關係我們先看下一張那個powerpoint\n今天是跟節日實施辦法第5條第2項所提到的勞動節的勞工放假那我看這個應該是從勞基法的第2條跟第37條所提到的勞動節而來的嘛\n但是這個紀念日跟節日實施辦法第5條他並沒有說勞動節這個東西只有這個公務員不能夠一起放啊那你為什麼當作說因為這個所以公務員不行然後另外就是說因為我去看了其他的國家比如說以美國為例好了他的勞動節是9月的第一個星期一那他這個也是全國一起放\n所以我不知道說為什麼這個東西在我們台灣好像變成是一個一個你是卡住自己所以這公務員不能夠一起放然後導致現在很多家庭你也知道嘛很多家庭現在都雙薪家庭啊然後變成說小孩放假父母沒有放的問題發生啊\n就是昭緯你那個投影片這裡寫的齁在紀念日及節日實施辦法的第5條第2項勞動節他就寫勞工放假嘛你覺得勞工可以放假他沒有嘛所以要剛才改嘛要改掉我們的形式律就會跟著這個來改了吧因為他只有identify很明確的寫勞工放假\n法律並沒有禁止你們去做你們立法的動作\n因為他對他確實有講這個勞工放假那我翻了所有的法條大概從勞基法這邊能夠比較找到他的依據但是沒有沒有說你們不能夠提出對於行政院這邊去做出其他的修法的建議啊還是你們認為說是上限的問題假日上限的問題\n上線的問題就是那個19年6月30號啊大宴的附帶決議有寫啊我們一年大概115到116人長這更不對你看一下齁89年這附帶決議啊他是在陳述一件事實啊所以內政部內政部他他有他的那個\n放假一日可行性報告裡面他自己去解釋立法院的附帶決議叫做上限其實我對內政部的這個報告我是覺得不以為然所以你不能就直接引用他們這個邏輯我跟你講你自己看我們現在包括你上面的字\n我們談到的115至116日這個東西是在陳述放假總日數的一個事實狀況並不是說去加一個限制欸你們不能這樣亂解釋這將來我也會跟內政部討論這個問題啊那如果你說你說這個這個叫做限制那為什麼會有115或116兩種不同的規格那如果你是說這跟論年或平年有關的話那我跟你講\n今年是115天但今年是論年那為什麼是115那明年明年是平年但是有116天所以這115跟116這不是上限嘛如果是上限一定是一個標準數字\n那如果你說唯一有可能是平年論年的差別但是我剛剛跟你講了今年跟去年也是平年跟論年但是也跟115、116無關嘛所以你們不能動不動就拿這個當作是放假的上限\n你剛講的我就謝謝趙偉啦 其實這件事我覺得我也是尊重內政部的認知啦因為罵帳套也是他要套嘛 今日節日時事辦法他如果把五一他不要寫勞工 那很多東西就清楚了嘛那問題他就把你寫在那 啊這幾天他在頂的 還不是我們頂的啊我們又不能用立法把它塗掉啊\n他確實是有勞工但是他是為了保障勞工而來對不對但是他並沒有立法做其他的限制所以你們也應該做你們該做的事你也要保障公務員啊\n我們不是被騙我們是尊重他弄錯你也尊重啦\n主管機關啦好啦最後我跟你們講一下齁就是那個雖然這一次我們有說讓這個總預算退回這個程序委員會但你們不要擔心這跟加薪3%這個沒有關係啦今天國民黨已經點出是哪幾個問題了那剛剛因為我想你剛剛在回答其他委員的問題的時候\n謝謝吳總召 謝謝人事長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.529 --> 00:12.000\n現在有請吳昭偉中線委員質詢有請人事長昭偉早\n\n00:20.680 --> 00:32.601\n人事長早人事長首先先請教老問題就是假官助理法制化之後那你在這邊可不可以簡單說明一下到底會不會排擠到總額\n\n00:35.104 --> 00:53.801\n我跟委員報告一下檢察官助理這一次的修法裡面他有特別提到聘用跟業用檢察官如果是業用檢察官就不會排擠到延額如果是聘用的檢察官就會排擠到延額主要的差別在這裡讓他在使用上有彈性\n\n00:55.694 --> 01:23.223\n法務部長前一天我有跟他提到談到這個部分那這可能就再麻煩你們多幫忙看能夠讓法務部怎麼樣運作上面能夠更順利一點好不好因為這問題上回請問過好幾次我跟趙偉報告大概目前大概他們已經有已經用了250位的業用的檢察官助理了\n\n01:23.743 --> 01:31.431\n那未來到底要用多少?是要用業用的還是聘用的?我想我們也尊重法務部\n\n01:32.759 --> 01:35.121\n目前我們國家到底是依據什麼法令來讓公私立學校還有公家機關放颱風架\n\n02:02.205 --> 02:26.075\n事實上我跟召委報告根本我們沒有所謂的颱風架根本目前的所有的架別沒有一個叫颱風架只是說交通不便由各個地方政府或者學校基於他的首屬的同仁或學生的安全他們實施就是不用來上班上課的\n\n02:29.458 --> 02:37.147\n我幫您補充各縣市政府是依據天然災害停止上班上課作為辦法是用這個辦法但是裡面還有一個規定說這是人事總處\n\n02:45.537 --> 02:47.759\n市府的首長其實對這件事是很痛苦的放與不放是很痛苦的\n\n03:05.612 --> 03:28.899\n我跟召委報告一下,事實上從民國83年我們就授權地方政府,因為地方政府的那種差異性,你像管政府會對鄉鎮公售,你像今天蘭嶼就放假,那我人總我怎麼有辦法去直接去幫蘭嶼在即時去用那個放假的這樣的一個措施,事實上\n\n03:29.679 --> 03:56.463\n我們定這個辦法是授權給地方政府當然剛才趙委提的就是像今天今天大家就有些人就會有一些期待嘛反正每一次的可能有颱風進來大家就有一些期待那個期望值高還是低的問題不過這個到最後為了讓他有效力還是要授權地方政府第一線的人他比較清楚\n\n03:59.387 --> 04:23.780\n但是這個有時候我覺得齁未來這個天然災害的價如果說是由中央來統一做一個全國性的盤點這個會不會比較好因為地方縣市首長的決策那他們背負了很大的壓力阿我早晚報告啦其實7月30號我們就有找所有地方政委來開過會阿他們結論還是要自己決定啦\n\n04:28.291 --> 04:55.005\n因為他覺得中央訂全國的遊戲規則那個有些地方因為有時風頭但是路好好但是有風風風沒大但是那個路回去嘛回去稍微已經地方政府比我們還清楚嘛他地方就可以自己去做這個決定鄉鎮工作也好好好也好他就可以去停了嘛這樣好有彈性啦7月30號開會的結論是他們還是要自己決定\n\n04:57.967 --> 05:24.225\n還是中央的意思還是地方政府自己要求?對,他們要求啊,不然他們會去罵啊這部分跟我在市府待過的經驗值不一樣其實常常他們市長在決策要不要放假他們是想破腦袋到底要還是不要因為有時候他放了然後隔天又出大太陽這個都很常發生嘛\n\n05:25.171 --> 05:25.191\n吳宗憲議員\n\n05:44.165 --> 05:44.966\n公務人員離職跟自殺創新高\n\n06:13.985 --> 06:16.267\n國軍在113年到6月底為止也有12個人自殺有關國軍以外,公務員有沒有什麼想法?\n\n06:36.679 --> 06:54.363\n公務人員的自殺我們有統計大概每10萬人大概3點多到6點多這個range每一年的情況不太一樣那全國民眾的話大概每10萬人大概有13到16反而公務機關相對於一般\n\n06:55.904 --> 07:09.579\n總人民總國民的比例還是相對比較低啦這個是實際的數據呈現是這樣第二個就是說我們政府機關事實上也是一直在挖起一個點就是說\n\n07:10.180 --> 07:32.737\n最近這幾年大家那種心理的壓力會造成一些遺憾的事情發生所以我們也在強化整個政府機關EAP員工協助方案能夠更落實更擴大地去協助那一些需要幫助的人因為有些人是隱性的他們說出來你不知道嘛所以我們也希望說當委\n\n07:34.438 --> 07:35.880\n但是這個也是老問題啦,人事長這也是老問題\n\n07:53.302 --> 07:53.322\n吳宗憲\n\n08:08.934 --> 08:10.015\n那其實你剛剛一直有在提到說是\n\n08:36.377 --> 09:04.245\n是從那個紀念日及節日實施辦法這個部分來的嘛但是這個是規範勞工啊不是我意思是說他所提到的勞動節他並沒有說公務員不能放勞動節嘛因為我跟你講齁我看了一下齁沒關係我們先看下一張那個powerpoint\n\n09:09.565 --> 09:13.769\n今天是跟節日實施辦法第5條第2項所提到的勞動節的勞工放假那我看這個應該是從勞基法的第2條跟第37條所提到的勞動節而來的嘛\n\n09:33.530 --> 09:58.662\n但是這個紀念日跟節日實施辦法第5條他並沒有說勞動節這個東西只有這個公務員不能夠一起放啊那你為什麼當作說因為這個所以公務員不行然後另外就是說因為我去看了其他的國家比如說以美國為例好了他的勞動節是9月的第一個星期一那他這個也是全國一起放\n\n10:00.695 --> 10:17.584\n所以我不知道說為什麼這個東西在我們台灣好像變成是一個一個你是卡住自己所以這公務員不能夠一起放然後導致現在很多家庭你也知道嘛很多家庭現在都雙薪家庭啊然後變成說小孩放假父母沒有放的問題發生啊\n\n10:19.434 --> 10:41.776\n就是昭緯你那個投影片這裡寫的齁在紀念日及節日實施辦法的第5條第2項勞動節他就寫勞工放假嘛你覺得勞工可以放假他沒有嘛所以要剛才改嘛要改掉我們的形式律就會跟著這個來改了吧因為他只有identify很明確的寫勞工放假\n\n10:43.624 --> 10:49.051\n法律並沒有禁止你們去做你們立法的動作\n\n10:52.506 --> 11:07.372\n因為他對他確實有講這個勞工放假那我翻了所有的法條大概從勞基法這邊能夠比較找到他的依據但是沒有沒有說你們不能夠提出對於行政院這邊去做出其他的修法的建議啊還是你們認為說是上限的問題假日上限的問題\n\n11:14.525 --> 11:34.495\n上線的問題就是那個19年6月30號啊大宴的附帶決議有寫啊我們一年大概115到116人長這更不對你看一下齁89年這附帶決議啊他是在陳述一件事實啊所以內政部內政部他他有他的那個\n\n11:36.936 --> 11:58.058\n放假一日可行性報告裡面他自己去解釋立法院的附帶決議叫做上限其實我對內政部的這個報告我是覺得不以為然所以你不能就直接引用他們這個邏輯我跟你講你自己看我們現在包括你上面的字\n\n11:59.059 --> 12:26.350\n我們談到的115至116日這個東西是在陳述放假總日數的一個事實狀況並不是說去加一個限制欸你們不能這樣亂解釋這將來我也會跟內政部討論這個問題啊那如果你說你說這個這個叫做限制那為什麼會有115或116兩種不同的規格那如果你是說這跟論年或平年有關的話那我跟你講\n\n12:27.310 --> 12:44.868\n今年是115天但今年是論年那為什麼是115那明年明年是平年但是有116天所以這115跟116這不是上限嘛如果是上限一定是一個標準數字\n\n12:46.533 --> 13:01.707\n那如果你說唯一有可能是平年論年的差別但是我剛剛跟你講了今年跟去年也是平年跟論年但是也跟115、116無關嘛所以你們不能動不動就拿這個當作是放假的上限\n\n13:03.393 --> 13:27.653\n你剛講的我就謝謝趙偉啦其實這件事我覺得我也是尊重內政部的認知啦因為罵帳套也是他要套嘛今日節日時事辦法他如果把五一他不要寫勞工那很多東西就清楚了嘛那問題他就把你寫在那啊這幾天他在頂的還不是我們頂的啊我們又不能用立法把它塗掉啊\n\n13:31.556 --> 13:36.681\n他確實是有勞工但是他是為了保障勞工而來對不對但是他並沒有立法做其他的限制所以你們也應該做你們該做的事你也要保障公務員啊\n\n13:53.217 --> 13:54.418\n我們不是被騙我們是尊重他弄錯你也尊重啦\n\n14:24.819 --> 14:45.065\n主管機關啦好啦最後我跟你們講一下齁就是那個雖然這一次我們有說讓這個總預算退回這個程序委員會但你們不要擔心這跟加薪3%這個沒有關係啦今天國民黨已經點出是哪幾個問題了那剛剛因為我想你剛剛在回答其他委員的問題的時候\n\n14:46.525 --> 14:46.625\n謝謝吳總召謝謝人事長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.529,"end":12,"text":"現在有請吳昭偉中線委員質詢有請人事長昭偉早"},{"start":20.68,"end":32.601,"text":"人事長早 人事長首先先請教老問題就是假官助理法制化之後那你在這邊可不可以簡單說明一下到底會不會排擠到總額"},{"start":35.104,"end":53.801,"text":"我跟委員報告一下 檢察官助理這一次的修法裡面他有特別提到聘用跟業用檢察官如果是業用檢察官就不會排擠到延額 如果是聘用的檢察官就會排擠到延額主要的差別在這裡 讓他在使用上有彈性"},{"start":55.694,"end":83.223,"text":"法務部長前一天我有跟他提到談到這個部分那這可能就再麻煩你們多幫忙看能夠讓法務部怎麼樣運作上面能夠更順利一點好不好因為這問題上回請問過好幾次我跟趙偉報告大概目前大概他們已經有已經用了250位的業用的檢察官助理了"},{"start":83.743,"end":91.431,"text":"那未來到底要用多少?是要用業用的還是聘用的?我想我們也尊重法務部"},{"start":92.759,"end":95.121,"text":"目前我們國家到底是依據什麼法令來讓公私立學校還有公家機關放颱風架"},{"start":122.205,"end":146.075,"text":"事實上我跟召委報告根本我們沒有所謂的颱風架根本目前的所有的架別沒有一個叫颱風架只是說交通不便由各個地方政府或者學校基於他的首屬的同仁或學生的安全他們實施就是不用來上班上課的"},{"start":149.458,"end":157.147,"text":"我幫您補充各縣市政府是依據天然災害停止上班上課作為辦法是用這個辦法但是裡面還有一個規定說這是人事總處"},{"start":165.537,"end":167.759,"text":"市府的首長其實對這件事是很痛苦的放與不放是很痛苦的"},{"start":185.612,"end":208.899,"text":"我跟召委報告一下,事實上從民國83年我們就授權地方政府,因為地方政府的那種差異性,你像管政府會對鄉鎮公售,你像今天蘭嶼就放假,那我人總我怎麼有辦法去直接去幫蘭嶼在即時去用那個放假的這樣的一個措施,事實上"},{"start":209.679,"end":236.463,"text":"我們定這個辦法是授權給地方政府當然剛才趙委提的就是像今天今天大家就有些人就會有一些期待嘛反正每一次的可能有颱風進來大家就有一些期待那個期望值高還是低的問題不過這個到最後為了讓他有效力還是要授權地方政府第一線的人他比較清楚"},{"start":239.387,"end":263.78,"text":"但是這個有時候我覺得齁未來這個天然災害的價如果說是由中央來統一做一個全國性的盤點這個會不會比較好因為地方縣市首長的決策那他們背負了很大的壓力阿我早晚報告啦其實7月30號我們就有找所有地方政委來開過會阿他們結論還是要自己決定啦"},{"start":268.291,"end":295.005,"text":"因為他覺得中央訂全國的遊戲規則那個有些地方因為有時風頭但是路好好但是有風風風沒大但是那個路回去嘛回去稍微已經地方政府比我們還清楚嘛他地方就可以自己去做這個決定鄉鎮工作也好好好也好他就可以去停了嘛這樣好有彈性啦7月30號開會的結論是他們還是要自己決定"},{"start":297.967,"end":324.225,"text":"還是中央的意思還是地方政府自己要求?對,他們要求啊,不然他們會去罵啊這部分跟我在市府待過的經驗值不一樣其實常常他們市長在決策要不要放假他們是想破腦袋到底要還是不要因為有時候他放了然後隔天又出大太陽這個都很常發生嘛"},{"start":325.171,"end":325.191,"text":"吳宗憲議員"},{"start":344.165,"end":344.966,"text":"公務人員離職跟自殺創新高"},{"start":373.985,"end":376.267,"text":"國軍在113年到6月底為止也有12個人自殺有關國軍以外,公務員有沒有什麼想法?"},{"start":396.679,"end":414.363,"text":"公務人員的自殺我們有統計大概每10萬人大概3點多到6點多這個range每一年的情況不太一樣那全國民眾的話大概每10萬人大概有13到16反而公務機關相對於一般"},{"start":415.904,"end":429.579,"text":"總人民總國民的比例還是相對比較低啦這個是實際的數據呈現是這樣第二個就是說我們政府機關事實上也是一直在挖起一個點就是說"},{"start":430.18,"end":452.737,"text":"最近這幾年大家那種心理的壓力會造成一些遺憾的事情發生所以我們也在強化整個政府機關EAP員工協助方案能夠更落實更擴大地去協助那一些需要幫助的人因為有些人是隱性的他們說出來你不知道嘛所以我們也希望說當委"},{"start":454.438,"end":455.88,"text":"但是這個也是老問題啦,人事長這也是老問題"},{"start":473.302,"end":473.322,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":488.934,"end":490.015,"text":"那其實你剛剛一直有在提到說是"},{"start":516.377,"end":544.245,"text":"是從那個紀念日及節日實施辦法這個部分來的嘛但是這個是規範勞工啊不是我意思是說他所提到的勞動節他並沒有說公務員不能放勞動節嘛因為我跟你講齁我看了一下齁沒關係我們先看下一張那個powerpoint"},{"start":549.565,"end":553.769,"text":"今天是跟節日實施辦法第5條第2項所提到的勞動節的勞工放假那我看這個應該是從勞基法的第2條跟第37條所提到的勞動節而來的嘛"},{"start":573.53,"end":598.662,"text":"但是這個紀念日跟節日實施辦法第5條他並沒有說勞動節這個東西只有這個公務員不能夠一起放啊那你為什麼當作說因為這個所以公務員不行然後另外就是說因為我去看了其他的國家比如說以美國為例好了他的勞動節是9月的第一個星期一那他這個也是全國一起放"},{"start":600.695,"end":617.584,"text":"所以我不知道說為什麼這個東西在我們台灣好像變成是一個一個你是卡住自己所以這公務員不能夠一起放然後導致現在很多家庭你也知道嘛很多家庭現在都雙薪家庭啊然後變成說小孩放假父母沒有放的問題發生啊"},{"start":619.434,"end":641.776,"text":"就是昭緯你那個投影片這裡寫的齁在紀念日及節日實施辦法的第5條第2項勞動節他就寫勞工放假嘛你覺得勞工可以放假他沒有嘛所以要剛才改嘛要改掉我們的形式律就會跟著這個來改了吧因為他只有identify很明確的寫勞工放假"},{"start":643.624,"end":649.051,"text":"法律並沒有禁止你們去做你們立法的動作"},{"start":652.506,"end":667.372,"text":"因為他對他確實有講這個勞工放假那我翻了所有的法條大概從勞基法這邊能夠比較找到他的依據但是沒有沒有說你們不能夠提出對於行政院這邊去做出其他的修法的建議啊還是你們認為說是上限的問題假日上限的問題"},{"start":674.525,"end":694.495,"text":"上線的問題就是那個19年6月30號啊大宴的附帶決議有寫啊我們一年大概115到116人長這更不對你看一下齁89年這附帶決議啊他是在陳述一件事實啊所以內政部內政部他他有他的那個"},{"start":696.936,"end":718.058,"text":"放假一日可行性報告裡面他自己去解釋立法院的附帶決議叫做上限其實我對內政部的這個報告我是覺得不以為然所以你不能就直接引用他們這個邏輯我跟你講你自己看我們現在包括你上面的字"},{"start":719.059,"end":746.35,"text":"我們談到的115至116日這個東西是在陳述放假總日數的一個事實狀況並不是說去加一個限制欸你們不能這樣亂解釋這將來我也會跟內政部討論這個問題啊那如果你說你說這個這個叫做限制那為什麼會有115或116兩種不同的規格那如果你是說這跟論年或平年有關的話那我跟你講"},{"start":747.31,"end":764.868,"text":"今年是115天但今年是論年那為什麼是115那明年明年是平年但是有116天所以這115跟116這不是上限嘛如果是上限一定是一個標準數字"},{"start":766.533,"end":781.707,"text":"那如果你說唯一有可能是平年論年的差別但是我剛剛跟你講了今年跟去年也是平年跟論年但是也跟115、116無關嘛所以你們不能動不動就拿這個當作是放假的上限"},{"start":783.393,"end":807.653,"text":"你剛講的我就謝謝趙偉啦 其實這件事我覺得我也是尊重內政部的認知啦因為罵帳套也是他要套嘛 今日節日時事辦法他如果把五一他不要寫勞工 那很多東西就清楚了嘛那問題他就把你寫在那 啊這幾天他在頂的 還不是我們頂的啊我們又不能用立法把它塗掉啊"},{"start":811.556,"end":816.681,"text":"他確實是有勞工但是他是為了保障勞工而來對不對但是他並沒有立法做其他的限制所以你們也應該做你們該做的事你也要保障公務員啊"},{"start":833.217,"end":834.418,"text":"我們不是被騙我們是尊重他弄錯你也尊重啦"},{"start":864.819,"end":885.065,"text":"主管機關啦好啦最後我跟你們講一下齁就是那個雖然這一次我們有說讓這個總預算退回這個程序委員會但你們不要擔心這跟加薪3%這個沒有關係啦今天國民黨已經點出是哪幾個問題了那剛剛因為我想你剛剛在回答其他委員的問題的時候"},{"start":886.525,"end":886.625,"text":"謝謝吳總召 謝謝人事長"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-36-2","title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:24:24 - 11:39:25","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154991,"gazette":{"lineno":704,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（11時24分）好，謝謝主席，我們麻煩人事長。"],["主席：好，有請人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：召委早。"],["吳委員宗憲：人事長早。人事長，首先先請教老問題啦，檢察官助理法制化之後，你可不可以簡單說明一下，到底會不會排擠到總額？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，檢察官助理這一次的修法裡面有特別提到聘用跟約用檢察官，如果是約用檢察官就不會排擠到員額，如果是聘用的檢察官就會排擠到員額，主要的差別在這裡，讓他在使用上有彈性啦！"],["吳委員宗憲：好，因為這個部分是全國檢察官都很在意的一個問題，法務部長前幾天來我有跟他談到，可能再麻煩你們多幫忙，看如何能夠讓法務部在運作上面更順利一點，好不好？因為這老問題上會期已經問過好幾次了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟召委報告，目前他們大概已經用了250位約用的檢察官助理，未來到底要用多少，是要用約用的還是聘用的，我們也尊重法務部。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，因為它跟打詐有關啦！所以這個部分可能要麻煩你，否則這個6,900人的上限其實很快就會用完了，好，謝謝。","我現在請教下一個問題，其實這也都是一個長期的問題，其他的委員也都有問過。我想請教一下人事長，目前我們國家到底是依據什麼法令來讓公私立學校還有公家機關放颱風假？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟召委報告，事實上我們根本沒有所謂的颱風假，目前所有的假別沒有一個叫颱風假，只是說交通不便，所以由各個地方政府或者學校基於它所屬的同仁或學生的安全，由他們實施不用來上班上課。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我們簡單來說，我幫您補充啦，各縣市政府是依據天然災害停止上班及上課作業辦法，對不對？是用這個辦法。但是裡面它有說放不放假是由人事總處規定的，結果現在放不放假變成是地方首長來扛這個責任，這個是不是應該要由中央來統一做決策會比較好？不然我跟你講，我自己待過市政府，市府的首長其實對這件事是很痛苦的，放與不放是很痛苦的。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟召委報告一下，事實上從民國83年我們就授權地方政府，因為地方政府的差異性，例如縣政府下面那些鄉鎮公所……像今天蘭嶼就放假，這樣我們人總怎麼有辦法直接去幫蘭嶼即時宣布放假這樣的一個措施？事實上，我們訂這個辦法是授權給地方政府，當然剛才召委提的，像今天有些人就會有一些期待嘛！反正每一次可能有颱風進來，大家就有一些期待，那個期望值高還是低的問題啦！不過到最後為了讓它有效率，還是要授權地方政府、第一線的人他比較清楚啦！"],["吳委員宗憲：但是我覺得未來這個天然災害的假，如果是由中央統一來做一個全國性的盤點，這樣會不會比較好？因為由地方縣市首長決策，他們背負了很大的壓力啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟召委報告，其實7月30號我們就有找所有地方政府來開過會，他們結論還是要自己決定啦！因為他覺得中央來訂全國的遊戲規則，有些地方……因為有時候風很大但是路是好的；有的風雨不大路卻斷掉嘛！斷掉什麼的地方政府一定比我們還清楚嘛！這樣地方就可以自己去做這個決定，鄉鎮公所也好，學校也好，它就可以去停了嘛！這樣比較有彈性啦！7月30號開會的結論是他們還是要自己決定。"],["吳委員宗憲：是中央的意思還是地方政府自己要求？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：地方的要求啊，不然他們會被罵啊！反正一定要有「爐主」在啦！"],["吳委員宗憲：好啦，沒關係，人事長，這個部分跟我在市府待過的經驗值不一樣，其實常常市長他們在決策要不要放假是想破腦袋，到底要還是不要，因為有時候他放了，然後隔天又出大太陽，這個都很常發生嘛！所以你說這個責任他們會這麼喜歡去擔，我覺得奇怪，不然這樣好不好，我們再找機會，我再跟你研究一下，看看這個東西我們可以做怎麼樣的精進。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟召委報告一下，可能就是風力的等級，大概會有列幾個條件，然後這個條件它可能不是單一認定，而是複合式決定的啦，我覺得可能可以從這裡來做一些建議。"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係，我們下一個問題，我想跟你討教一下，我稍微蒐集了一些資料，從107年到113年這段時間，我們發現112年公務人員離職跟自殺都創新高，而且比111年高非常的多；一樣在國軍的部分，在113年到6月底為止也有12個人自殺。我想要請教一下人事長，有關這個部分，當然在國軍以外，公務員的部分你們有沒有什麼想法，有沒有什麼可以做的？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：其實我跟委員報告，公務人員的自殺我們有統計每10萬人大概百分之三點多到六點多這個range，每一年情況不大一樣；至於全國民眾每10萬人大概有百分之十三到十六，反而公務機關相對於一般民眾的比例還是相對比較低啦，實際的數據呈現是這樣。第二個，事實上我們政府機關也是一直在watch一個點，就是最近這幾年大家心理的壓力會造成一些遺憾的事情發生，所以我們也在強化整個政府機關EAP員工協助方案能夠更落實、更擴大的去協助那一些需要幫助的人，因為有些人是隱性的，他沒說出來你不知道嘛！所以我們也希望身為他的主管或周圍的同仁隨時去觀察，看你周圍的同仁有沒有異常的，主動去協助，因為我覺得這件事情應該是要幾個構面一起來努力，這樣才有辦法大幅降低。"],["吳委員宗憲：人事長，這也是老問題，你現在是最高職位的，你還是得幫忙想一下辦法看怎麼解決，你不能拿它跟一般民眾來比，你要去看它是今年比去年高很多，這才是問題嘛！而去年又比前年高很多，這個才是問題嘛！你不能說因為公務員自殺的比例比一般人民低，所以就怎麼怎麼，這不是理由啦，好不好？這部分你這樣講，我就不能接受啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，我們會針對過去幾年來做……"],["吳委員宗憲：我們再延續剛剛前面委員所提的問題，就是有關勞動節全民放假的問題，其實你剛剛一直有提到說是從紀念日及節日實施辦法來的，但是這個是規範勞工啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不是，是全國民眾。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，我的意思是它所提到的勞動節並沒有說公務員不能放勞動節嘛！我跟你說，在我來看，紀念日及節日實施辦法第五條第二項所提到的勞動節勞工放假，我看這個應該是從勞基法第二條及第三十七條所提到的勞動節而來的，但是紀念日及節日實施辦法第五條並沒有說勞動節這個東西公務員不能夠一起放，你們為什麼當作說因為這個，所以公務員不行？另外，我去看了其他國家，譬如以美國為例好了，他們的勞動節是9月第一個星期一，但這個也是全國一起放。所以我不知道為什麼這個東西在我們臺灣好像變成卡住自己，所以公務員不能夠一起放？你也知道現在很多家庭都是雙薪家庭，然後就變成小孩放假，但父母沒有放假的問題發生。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：召委，你的投影片這裡寫，在紀念日及節日實施辦法第五條第二項，勞動節就是寫勞工放假嘛！就是只有勞工可以放假，其他的沒有，所以要在那邊改，那邊如果改掉，我們的行事曆就會跟著這個來改了，因為它只有identify很明確寫勞工放假。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，法律並沒有禁止你們去做立法的動作，對，它確實有講是勞工放假，但我翻了所有法條，大概從勞基法這邊比較能夠找到它的依據，但是並沒有說你們不能夠對於行政院這邊做出其他修法的建議啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我知道召委的意思。"],["吳委員宗憲：對啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我知道召委的意思啦！"],["吳委員宗憲：還是你們認為是假日上限的問題？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：上限的問題就是89年6月30號大院的附帶決議有寫，我們一年大概是115到116……"],["吳委員宗憲：那個更不對，人事長，這個更不對。你看一下89年這個附帶決議，它是在陳述一件事實，所以內政部在放假日可行性報告裡面自己去解釋立法院的附帶決議叫做上限，但是對於內政部這個報告，我是覺得不以為然，所以你不能就直接引用他們這個邏輯。我跟你講，你自己看我們現在powerpoint上面的字，我們談到的115至116日這個東西是在陳述放假總日數的一個事實狀況，並不是去加一個限制，你們不能這樣亂解釋，將來我也會跟內政部討論這個問題。好，如果你說這個叫做限制，那為什麼會有115或116兩種不同的規格？如果你說這跟閏年或平年有關的話，我跟你講，今年是115天，但今年是閏年，為什麼是115？明年是平年，但是有116天，所以這115跟116並不是上限，如果是上限就一定是一個標準數字，如果你說唯一有可能是平年、閏年的差別，但是我剛剛跟你講了，今年和去年就是閏年跟平年，但是也跟115、116無關，所以你們不能動不動就拿這個當作是放假的上限。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝召委，針對這件事情，我覺得我們也是尊重內政部他們的認知，因為「肉粽頭」也是他們要解的，紀念日及節日實施辦法如果五一不要寫勞工，那很多東西就清楚了嘛！問題是就寫在那邊了，而且這個規定也是他們訂的，並不是我們訂的，我們又不能用立可白把它塗掉。"],["吳委員宗憲：當然不行啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對啊！問題就是它有決定權，要從「肉粽頭」來……"],["吳委員宗憲：但是我們的認知是這樣，它確實是有勞工，它是為了保障勞工而來，對不對？但是它並沒有立法做其他限制，所以你們也應該做你們該做的事，你也要保障公務員啊，對不對？內政部都知道要保障勞工，你卻不知道要保障公務員，這一點我是不太能接受，好不好？這部分也要麻煩你們研議一下。我剛剛只是要跟你們提醒一下，不要拿116或115說這個是立法院的限制。我跟你講，你從那個附帶決議的文字來看，根本不是限制，內政部也在騙人啦！你們不要跟著這樣走啦！好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們不是被騙，我們是尊重內政部。"],["吳委員宗憲：它弄錯，你也尊重啦，是不是？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒辦法啊！它是法規的主管機關啊！"],["吳委員宗憲：好啦，最後我跟你們講一下，雖然這一次我們有說讓總預算退回程序委員會，但你們不要擔心，這跟加薪3%沒有關係啊！今天國民黨已經點出是哪幾個問題了，因為你剛剛在回答其他委員問題的時候，我看你那個回答的方式，我覺得我再跟你解釋清楚一下，這個並沒有什麼3%受影響的這種事，不要讓事實查核中心再出來打臉了。好，謝謝各位。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝召委。"],["主席：好，謝謝吳總召，謝謝人事長。接下來有請鄭委員天財質詢，時間5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-2","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","林思銘","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","謝龍介","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137801_00011"}}}