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{\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 375.213, \"end\": 375.493, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 375.493, \"end\": 375.573, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 375.573, \"end\": 375.593, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"翰\", \"start\": 375.593, \"end\": 375.653, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 375.653, \"end\": 375.673, \"score\": 0.028}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,830 --> 00:00:02,911\n質詢時間5分鐘請吳誠文主委還有賴處長請吳主委還有賴處長\n\n2\n00:00:18,340 --> 00:00:46,992\n黃委員好主委好今天很多委員都在跟國科會在討論關於我們這個永續科研學門的這個問題那因為這一次在爭議中的這幾個學門包括永續房災空間這幾個學門其實跟我過去的工作其實有非常非常大的相關所以裡面有很多的學者也是我們長期在交換意見跟合作的學者\n\n3\n00:00:48,032 --> 00:01:11,618\n所以這一次的事件確實就有理解到其實在學界真的造成了一個很大的震盪最後想先請問主委也好或者賴處長也好你們是不是永續或空間或防災這些方面的專業者專家是不是我不是賴處長是不是我也不是好\n\n4\n00:01:13,157 --> 00:01:36,236\n主委跟賴處長你們一定都有你們學友專精特別專長的領域可是就像剛剛你們說的其實在這幾個學門你們不是專家那這時候我就會有一些疑問了因為我剛剛也聽了主委回答剛剛前面幾位委員的回答說這中間是因為處長跟你針對你們有一些想法在做討論但我有一個問題\n\n5\n00:01:38,697 --> 00:01:44,192\n那為什麼這個形成想法之前不是先去請教這幾個學門真正的\n\n6\n00:01:47,517 --> 00:01:47,537\n為何?\n\n7\n00:02:17,543 --> 00:02:41,504\n其實應該沒有做決策啦當然我知道還沒有做決策對可是我聽起來我說這個過程我說決策的這個過程裡面討論的過程為什麼不是先找這方面領域的長期的專案者先討論大家的意見是什麼大家的看法是什麼而是你們先\n\n8\n00:02:42,898 --> 00:03:07,160\n自己就先討論,或者是自己就有點先入為主,然後惹出這滿城風雨,為什麼?還沒有討論,真的報告委員還沒有討論,根本沒有會議討論這個事情,而只是那個處長他有個想法是想要協助我們這幾個選民。對,協助沒有問題,但是現在問題是你們在思考協助的方案,\n\n9\n00:03:07,841 --> 00:03:11,124\n主委我要跟你說我其實不贊成現在什麼溝不溝通啦你們要先做的事情是請教不是溝通溝通是我有想法的我來說服你這是溝通我跟證\n\n10\n00:03:32,261 --> 00:03:46,742\n但是根本沒有在這個過程照理來說是我其實就算我們想要來協助但我應該來先問這個學門裡面的我同意同意該怎麼協助同意我們有這個想法以後你成方案那後面才有溝通的事情\n\n11\n00:03:47,763 --> 00:04:12,937\n不是我先想了一套我先入為主先想了一套然後我說我來跟你溝通我來加強溝通這邏輯不對啊不是啊是真的是要請教沒錯啦要請教只是還沒有請教的時候就出現連署了嘛所以我們就先不動然後接下來就是要去請教了所以那個處長已經安排已經排好要第一先跟學門內的學者先請教\n\n12\n00:04:14,357 --> 00:04:40,428\n我知道剛剛主委有討論有說接下來有三場嘛我建議這不是溝通會議啦這是請教會議啦這是請教啦請教大家該怎麼做啦這是第一個第二個剛剛其實林副主委有講到接下來大家會很重視這個所謂調適的科研嘛對不對那我自己非常非常在意調適的問題因為大家都知道氣候邊遷氣候的變化很有可能其實沒有回不太有回頭路我們只能減緩\n\n13\n00:04:42,110 --> 00:05:03,163\n但可能還是會遇到的風險我們必須靠調試來去處理但我要講為什麼我知道為什麼這些學者非常那麼重視跨領域以調試來說調試就是一個完全需要跨領域的事情今天如果我在南部有一個地方養殖他這個養殖密集區遇到海平面上升\n\n14\n00:05:03,843 --> 00:05:28,202\n所以造成我養殖可能會有一些衝擊或影響我可能要怎麼做我先要氣候科學來做情境的評估跟模擬我需要有一些空間資訊來去做我這個有沒有空間資訊或者是都是計劃規劃的調整我甚至需要社會科學來去討論我的產業有沒有可能做轉型最後才是政策溝通這完全就是一個跨領域的事情是我同意\n\n15\n00:05:28,462 --> 00:05:44,649\n主委,為什麼大家這麼在意跨領域這個事情?就我自己跟這些學界們的合作裡面,過去就都是這些事情。所以這是為什麼大家在意的事情。我最後要問主委一個事情,我就直問了。主委,現在我們600位學者出來連署,大家有擔心喔?會不會秋後算帳啊?不會。\n\n16\n00:05:50,250 --> 00:05:50,410\n公平公開公正\n\n17\n00:06:14,932 --> 00:06:15,673\n主委請回謝謝洪申翰委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1830\t2911\t質詢時間5分鐘請吳誠文主委還有賴處長請吳主委還有賴處長\n18340\t46992\t黃委員好主委好今天很多委員都在跟國科會在討論關於我們這個永續科研學門的這個問題那因為這一次在爭議中的這幾個學門包括永續房災空間這幾個學門其實跟我過去的工作其實有非常非常大的相關所以裡面有很多的學者也是我們長期在交換意見跟合作的學者\n48032\t71618\t所以這一次的事件確實就有理解到其實在學界真的造成了一個很大的震盪最後想先請問主委也好或者賴處長也好你們是不是永續或空間或防災這些方面的專業者專家是不是我不是賴處長是不是我也不是好\n73157\t96236\t主委跟賴處長你們一定都有你們學友專精特別專長的領域可是就像剛剛你們說的其實在這幾個學門你們不是專家那這時候我就會有一些疑問了因為我剛剛也聽了主委回答剛剛前面幾位委員的回答說這中間是因為處長跟你針對你們有一些想法在做討論但我有一個問題\n98697\t104192\t那為什麼這個形成想法之前不是先去請教這幾個學門真正的\n107517\t107537\t為何?\n137543\t161504\t其實應該沒有做決策啦當然我知道還沒有做決策對可是我聽起來我說這個過程我說決策的這個過程裡面討論的過程為什麼不是先找這方面領域的長期的專案者先討論大家的意見是什麼大家的看法是什麼而是你們先\n162898\t187160\t自己就先討論,或者是自己就有點先入為主,然後惹出這滿城風雨,為什麼?還沒有討論,真的報告委員還沒有討論,根本沒有會議討論這個事情,而只是那個處長他有個想法是想要協助我們這幾個選民。對,協助沒有問題,但是現在問題是你們在思考協助的方案,\n187841\t191124\t主委 我要跟你說我其實不贊成現在什麼溝不溝通啦你們要先做的事情是請教不是溝通溝通是我有想法的我來說服你這是溝通我跟證\n212261\t226742\t但是根本沒有在這個過程照理來說是我其實就算我們想要來協助但我應該來先問這個學門裡面的我同意同意該怎麼協助同意我們有這個想法以後你成方案那後面才有溝通的事情\n227763\t252937\t不是 我先想了一套 我先入為主先想了一套 然後我說我來跟你溝通 我來加強溝通 這邏輯不對啊 不是啊 是真的是要請教沒錯啦 要請教 只是還沒有請教的時候就出現連署了嘛 所以我們就先不動 然後接下來就是要去請教了 所以那個處長已經安排 已經排好 要第一先跟學門內的學者先請教\n254357\t280428\t我知道剛剛主委有討論有說接下來有三場嘛我建議這不是溝通會議啦這是請教會議啦這是請教啦請教大家該怎麼做啦這是第一個第二個剛剛其實林副主委有講到接下來大家會很重視這個所謂調適的科研嘛對不對那我自己非常非常在意調適的問題因為大家都知道氣候邊遷氣候的變化很有可能其實沒有回不太有回頭路我們只能減緩\n282110\t303163\t但可能還是會遇到的風險我們必須靠調試來去處理但我要講為什麼我知道為什麼這些學者非常那麼重視跨領域以調試來說調試就是一個完全需要跨領域的事情今天如果我在南部有一個地方養殖他這個養殖密集區遇到海平面上升\n303843\t328202\t所以造成我養殖可能會有一些衝擊或影響我可能要怎麼做我先要氣候科學來做情境的評估跟模擬我需要有一些空間資訊來去做我這個有沒有空間資訊或者是都是計劃規劃的調整我甚至需要社會科學來去討論我的產業有沒有可能做轉型最後才是政策溝通這完全就是一個跨領域的事情是我同意\n328462\t344649\t主委,為什麼大家這麼在意跨領域這個事情?就我自己跟這些學界們的合作裡面,過去就都是這些事情。所以這是為什麼大家在意的事情。我最後要問主委一個事情,我就直問了。主委,現在我們600位學者出來連署,大家有擔心喔?會不會秋後算帳啊?不會。\n350250\t350410\t公平公開公正\n374932\t375673\t主委請回謝謝洪申翰委員\n","txt":"質詢時間5分鐘請吳誠文主委還有賴處長請吳主委還有賴處長\n黃委員好主委好今天很多委員都在跟國科會在討論關於我們這個永續科研學門的這個問題那因為這一次在爭議中的這幾個學門包括永續房災空間這幾個學門其實跟我過去的工作其實有非常非常大的相關所以裡面有很多的學者也是我們長期在交換意見跟合作的學者\n所以這一次的事件確實就有理解到其實在學界真的造成了一個很大的震盪最後想先請問主委也好或者賴處長也好你們是不是永續或空間或防災這些方面的專業者專家是不是我不是賴處長是不是我也不是好\n主委跟賴處長你們一定都有你們學友專精特別專長的領域可是就像剛剛你們說的其實在這幾個學門你們不是專家那這時候我就會有一些疑問了因為我剛剛也聽了主委回答剛剛前面幾位委員的回答說這中間是因為處長跟你針對你們有一些想法在做討論但我有一個問題\n那為什麼這個形成想法之前不是先去請教這幾個學門真正的\n為何?\n其實應該沒有做決策啦當然我知道還沒有做決策對可是我聽起來我說這個過程我說決策的這個過程裡面討論的過程為什麼不是先找這方面領域的長期的專案者先討論大家的意見是什麼大家的看法是什麼而是你們先\n自己就先討論,或者是自己就有點先入為主,然後惹出這滿城風雨,為什麼?還沒有討論,真的報告委員還沒有討論,根本沒有會議討論這個事情,而只是那個處長他有個想法是想要協助我們這幾個選民。對,協助沒有問題,但是現在問題是你們在思考協助的方案,\n主委 我要跟你說我其實不贊成現在什麼溝不溝通啦你們要先做的事情是請教不是溝通溝通是我有想法的我來說服你這是溝通我跟證\n但是根本沒有在這個過程照理來說是我其實就算我們想要來協助但我應該來先問這個學門裡面的我同意同意該怎麼協助同意我們有這個想法以後你成方案那後面才有溝通的事情\n不是 我先想了一套 我先入為主先想了一套 然後我說我來跟你溝通 我來加強溝通 這邏輯不對啊 不是啊 是真的是要請教沒錯啦 要請教 只是還沒有請教的時候就出現連署了嘛 所以我們就先不動 然後接下來就是要去請教了 所以那個處長已經安排 已經排好 要第一先跟學門內的學者先請教\n我知道剛剛主委有討論有說接下來有三場嘛我建議這不是溝通會議啦這是請教會議啦這是請教啦請教大家該怎麼做啦這是第一個第二個剛剛其實林副主委有講到接下來大家會很重視這個所謂調適的科研嘛對不對那我自己非常非常在意調適的問題因為大家都知道氣候邊遷氣候的變化很有可能其實沒有回不太有回頭路我們只能減緩\n但可能還是會遇到的風險我們必須靠調試來去處理但我要講為什麼我知道為什麼這些學者非常那麼重視跨領域以調試來說調試就是一個完全需要跨領域的事情今天如果我在南部有一個地方養殖他這個養殖密集區遇到海平面上升\n所以造成我養殖可能會有一些衝擊或影響我可能要怎麼做我先要氣候科學來做情境的評估跟模擬我需要有一些空間資訊來去做我這個有沒有空間資訊或者是都是計劃規劃的調整我甚至需要社會科學來去討論我的產業有沒有可能做轉型最後才是政策溝通這完全就是一個跨領域的事情是我同意\n主委,為什麼大家這麼在意跨領域這個事情?就我自己跟這些學界們的合作裡面,過去就都是這些事情。所以這是為什麼大家在意的事情。我最後要問主委一個事情,我就直問了。主委,現在我們600位學者出來連署,大家有擔心喔?會不會秋後算帳啊?不會。\n公平公開公正\n主委請回謝謝洪申翰委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.830 --> 00:02.911\n質詢時間5分鐘請吳誠文主委還有賴處長請吳主委還有賴處長\n\n00:18.340 --> 00:46.992\n黃委員好主委好今天很多委員都在跟國科會在討論關於我們這個永續科研學門的這個問題那因為這一次在爭議中的這幾個學門包括永續房災空間這幾個學門其實跟我過去的工作其實有非常非常大的相關所以裡面有很多的學者也是我們長期在交換意見跟合作的學者\n\n00:48.032 --> 01:11.618\n所以這一次的事件確實就有理解到其實在學界真的造成了一個很大的震盪最後想先請問主委也好或者賴處長也好你們是不是永續或空間或防災這些方面的專業者專家是不是我不是賴處長是不是我也不是好\n\n01:13.157 --> 01:36.236\n主委跟賴處長你們一定都有你們學友專精特別專長的領域可是就像剛剛你們說的其實在這幾個學門你們不是專家那這時候我就會有一些疑問了因為我剛剛也聽了主委回答剛剛前面幾位委員的回答說這中間是因為處長跟你針對你們有一些想法在做討論但我有一個問題\n\n01:38.697 --> 01:44.192\n那為什麼這個形成想法之前不是先去請教這幾個學門真正的\n\n01:47.517 --> 01:47.537\n為何?\n\n02:17.543 --> 02:41.504\n其實應該沒有做決策啦當然我知道還沒有做決策對可是我聽起來我說這個過程我說決策的這個過程裡面討論的過程為什麼不是先找這方面領域的長期的專案者先討論大家的意見是什麼大家的看法是什麼而是你們先\n\n02:42.898 --> 03:07.160\n自己就先討論,或者是自己就有點先入為主,然後惹出這滿城風雨,為什麼?還沒有討論,真的報告委員還沒有討論,根本沒有會議討論這個事情,而只是那個處長他有個想法是想要協助我們這幾個選民。對,協助沒有問題,但是現在問題是你們在思考協助的方案,\n\n03:07.841 --> 03:11.124\n主委我要跟你說我其實不贊成現在什麼溝不溝通啦你們要先做的事情是請教不是溝通溝通是我有想法的我來說服你這是溝通我跟證\n\n03:32.261 --> 03:46.742\n但是根本沒有在這個過程照理來說是我其實就算我們想要來協助但我應該來先問這個學門裡面的我同意同意該怎麼協助同意我們有這個想法以後你成方案那後面才有溝通的事情\n\n03:47.763 --> 04:12.937\n不是我先想了一套我先入為主先想了一套然後我說我來跟你溝通我來加強溝通這邏輯不對啊不是啊是真的是要請教沒錯啦要請教只是還沒有請教的時候就出現連署了嘛所以我們就先不動然後接下來就是要去請教了所以那個處長已經安排已經排好要第一先跟學門內的學者先請教\n\n04:14.357 --> 04:40.428\n我知道剛剛主委有討論有說接下來有三場嘛我建議這不是溝通會議啦這是請教會議啦這是請教啦請教大家該怎麼做啦這是第一個第二個剛剛其實林副主委有講到接下來大家會很重視這個所謂調適的科研嘛對不對那我自己非常非常在意調適的問題因為大家都知道氣候邊遷氣候的變化很有可能其實沒有回不太有回頭路我們只能減緩\n\n04:42.110 --> 05:03.163\n但可能還是會遇到的風險我們必須靠調試來去處理但我要講為什麼我知道為什麼這些學者非常那麼重視跨領域以調試來說調試就是一個完全需要跨領域的事情今天如果我在南部有一個地方養殖他這個養殖密集區遇到海平面上升\n\n05:03.843 --> 05:28.202\n所以造成我養殖可能會有一些衝擊或影響我可能要怎麼做我先要氣候科學來做情境的評估跟模擬我需要有一些空間資訊來去做我這個有沒有空間資訊或者是都是計劃規劃的調整我甚至需要社會科學來去討論我的產業有沒有可能做轉型最後才是政策溝通這完全就是一個跨領域的事情是我同意\n\n05:28.462 --> 05:44.649\n主委,為什麼大家這麼在意跨領域這個事情?就我自己跟這些學界們的合作裡面,過去就都是這些事情。所以這是為什麼大家在意的事情。我最後要問主委一個事情,我就直問了。主委,現在我們600位學者出來連署,大家有擔心喔?會不會秋後算帳啊?不會。\n\n05:50.250 --> 05:50.410\n公平公開公正\n\n06:14.932 --> 06:15.673\n主委請回謝謝洪申翰委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.83,"end":2.911,"text":"質詢時間5分鐘請吳誠文主委還有賴處長請吳主委還有賴處長"},{"start":18.34,"end":46.992,"text":"黃委員好主委好今天很多委員都在跟國科會在討論關於我們這個永續科研學門的這個問題那因為這一次在爭議中的這幾個學門包括永續房災空間這幾個學門其實跟我過去的工作其實有非常非常大的相關所以裡面有很多的學者也是我們長期在交換意見跟合作的學者"},{"start":48.032,"end":71.618,"text":"所以這一次的事件確實就有理解到其實在學界真的造成了一個很大的震盪最後想先請問主委也好或者賴處長也好你們是不是永續或空間或防災這些方面的專業者專家是不是我不是賴處長是不是我也不是好"},{"start":73.157,"end":96.236,"text":"主委跟賴處長你們一定都有你們學友專精特別專長的領域可是就像剛剛你們說的其實在這幾個學門你們不是專家那這時候我就會有一些疑問了因為我剛剛也聽了主委回答剛剛前面幾位委員的回答說這中間是因為處長跟你針對你們有一些想法在做討論但我有一個問題"},{"start":98.697,"end":104.192,"text":"那為什麼這個形成想法之前不是先去請教這幾個學門真正的"},{"start":107.517,"end":107.537,"text":"為何?"},{"start":137.543,"end":161.504,"text":"其實應該沒有做決策啦當然我知道還沒有做決策對可是我聽起來我說這個過程我說決策的這個過程裡面討論的過程為什麼不是先找這方面領域的長期的專案者先討論大家的意見是什麼大家的看法是什麼而是你們先"},{"start":162.898,"end":187.16,"text":"自己就先討論,或者是自己就有點先入為主,然後惹出這滿城風雨,為什麼?還沒有討論,真的報告委員還沒有討論,根本沒有會議討論這個事情,而只是那個處長他有個想法是想要協助我們這幾個選民。對,協助沒有問題,但是現在問題是你們在思考協助的方案,"},{"start":187.841,"end":191.124,"text":"主委 我要跟你說我其實不贊成現在什麼溝不溝通啦你們要先做的事情是請教不是溝通溝通是我有想法的我來說服你這是溝通我跟證"},{"start":212.261,"end":226.742,"text":"但是根本沒有在這個過程照理來說是我其實就算我們想要來協助但我應該來先問這個學門裡面的我同意同意該怎麼協助同意我們有這個想法以後你成方案那後面才有溝通的事情"},{"start":227.763,"end":252.937,"text":"不是 我先想了一套 我先入為主先想了一套 然後我說我來跟你溝通 我來加強溝通 這邏輯不對啊 不是啊 是真的是要請教沒錯啦 要請教 只是還沒有請教的時候就出現連署了嘛 所以我們就先不動 然後接下來就是要去請教了 所以那個處長已經安排 已經排好 要第一先跟學門內的學者先請教"},{"start":254.357,"end":280.428,"text":"我知道剛剛主委有討論有說接下來有三場嘛我建議這不是溝通會議啦這是請教會議啦這是請教啦請教大家該怎麼做啦這是第一個第二個剛剛其實林副主委有講到接下來大家會很重視這個所謂調適的科研嘛對不對那我自己非常非常在意調適的問題因為大家都知道氣候邊遷氣候的變化很有可能其實沒有回不太有回頭路我們只能減緩"},{"start":282.11,"end":303.163,"text":"但可能還是會遇到的風險我們必須靠調試來去處理但我要講為什麼我知道為什麼這些學者非常那麼重視跨領域以調試來說調試就是一個完全需要跨領域的事情今天如果我在南部有一個地方養殖他這個養殖密集區遇到海平面上升"},{"start":303.843,"end":328.202,"text":"所以造成我養殖可能會有一些衝擊或影響我可能要怎麼做我先要氣候科學來做情境的評估跟模擬我需要有一些空間資訊來去做我這個有沒有空間資訊或者是都是計劃規劃的調整我甚至需要社會科學來去討論我的產業有沒有可能做轉型最後才是政策溝通這完全就是一個跨領域的事情是我同意"},{"start":328.462,"end":344.649,"text":"主委,為什麼大家這麼在意跨領域這個事情?就我自己跟這些學界們的合作裡面,過去就都是這些事情。所以這是為什麼大家在意的事情。我最後要問主委一個事情,我就直問了。主委,現在我們600位學者出來連署,大家有擔心喔?會不會秋後算帳啊?不會。"},{"start":350.25,"end":350.41,"text":"公平公開公正"},{"start":374.932,"end":375.673,"text":"主委請回謝謝洪申翰委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:42:09 - 11:48:40","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":154993,"gazette":{"lineno":852,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（11時42分）請吳誠文主委，還有賴處長。"],["主席：好，請吳主委，還有賴處長。"],["吳主任委員誠文：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：主委好。今天很多委員都在跟國科會討論，關於我們永續科研學門的問題，因為這一次爭議中的這幾個學門，包括永續、防災、空間這幾個學門，跟我過去的工作有非常非常大的相關，裡面有很多學者也是我們長期在交換意見跟合作的學者，所以這一次的事件，就我理解到的，確實在學界真的造成了一個很大的震盪。我想先請問主委也好或者賴處長也好，你們是不是永續或空間或防災這些方面的專業者、專家，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我不是。"],["洪委員申翰：賴處長是不是？"],["賴處長明治：我也不是。"],["洪委員申翰：好。主委跟賴處長，你們一定都有你們學有專精特別專長的領域，可是就像剛剛你們說的，其實就這幾個學門，你們不是專家，那這時候我就會有一些疑問了。因為我剛才也聽了主委回答前面幾位委員的質詢時說，這中間是因為處長跟你針對你們有一些想法在做討論，但我有一個問題，那為什麼形成想法之前不是先去請教這幾個學門真正的專業者，或長期在這個學門裡面瞭解這個學門發展的人？不管是賴處長也好，主委也好，你們都不是這幾個學門的專家，為什麼你們自己反而跳過了先找大家請教、先找大家諮詢、先找大家來提供意見的這個過程，然後你們開始討論起來，甚至中間就開始有一些你們說的非正式文件等等這些事情出來，惹得滿城風雨，為什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：其實應該沒有做決策……"],["洪委員申翰：當然我知道還沒有做……"],["吳主任委員誠文：就是還沒有……"],["洪委員申翰：對，可是我聽起來，我說決策的這個過程裡面、討論的過程為什麼不是先找這方面領域長期的專業者先討論大家的意見是什麼、大家的看法是什麼，而是你們自己就先討論，或者是自己就有點先入為主，然後惹出這滿城風雨，為什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：還沒有討論，真的，報告委員，還沒有討論，我們根本沒有會議討論這個事情，只是處長有個想法是想要協助我們這幾個學門運作更好……"],["洪委員申翰：對，協助沒有問題，但是現在問題是你們思考協助的方案跟在這個學門領域裡面大家真正覺得關鍵的方案是違背的啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，但是我們準備要進行這個溝通的時候，還沒有進行，但是準備要進行……"],["洪委員申翰：主委，我要跟你說，我其實不贊成現在什麼溝不溝通，你們要先做的事情是請教……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是請教……"],["洪委員申翰：不是溝通，溝通是我有想法了，我來說服你，這是溝通……"],["吳主任委員誠文：對啦！好，我更正……"],["洪委員申翰：可是根本沒有在這個過程，照理來說，就算我們想要來協助，但我應該先問這個學門裡面的人……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我同意、同意、同意。"],["洪委員申翰：該怎麼協助，我們有這個想法以後，擬成方案，後面才有溝不溝通的事情……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是、是、是。"],["洪委員申翰：而不是我先入為主先想了一套，然後我說我來跟你溝通，我來加強溝通，這個邏輯不對啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是啦！真的是要請教沒錯啦！要請教，只是還沒有請教，就出現連署了，所以我們就先不動，然後接下來就是要去請教了，所以處長已經安排好，第一先跟學門內的學者請教。"],["洪委員申翰：我知道剛剛主委有討論，說接下來有3場，我建議這不是溝通會議，這是請教會議……"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是溝通，是請教、請教。"],["洪委員申翰：這是請教，請教大家該怎麼做……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["洪委員申翰：這是第一個。","第二個，剛剛其實林副主委有講到，接下來大家會很重視所謂調適的科研，對不對？我自己非常非常在意調適的問題，因為大家都知道，氣候的變遷、氣候的變化其實不太有回頭路，我們只能減緩，但可能還是會遇到的風險，我們必須靠調適來去處理。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是、是、是。"],["洪委員申翰：我要講，我知道為什麼這些學者要那麼重視跨領域，以調適來說，調適就是一個完全需要跨領域的事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["洪委員申翰：今天如果我在南部有一個地方是養殖密集區，遇到海平面上升，所以造成我的養殖可能會有一些衝擊或影響，我可能要怎麼做？我先用氣候科學來做情境的評估及模擬，我需要有一些空間資訊來去做我這個有沒有空間資訊或者是都市計畫規劃的調整，我甚至需要社會科學來去討論我的產業有沒有可能做轉型，最後才是政策溝通，這完全就是一個跨領域的事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，同意、同意。"],["洪委員申翰：主委，所以為什麼大家這麼在意跨領域這個事情？就我自己跟這些學界們的合作裡面，過去就都是這些事情，所以這是為什麼大家在意的事情。","我最後要問主委一個事情，我就直問了，主委，現在我們600位學者出來連署，大家擔心會不會秋後算帳？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會。"],["洪委員申翰：對這600位會不會秋後算帳？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會。"],["洪委員申翰：會不會看到這600位以後……"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然不會啊！"],["洪委員申翰：後面相關的計畫經費等等，有連署的，我點名做記號，會不會？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會啦！不會啦！不會啦！"],["洪委員申翰：主委，你要記得你這邊的承諾，我覺得大家都在看……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我講得很大聲，不會！"],["主席：已經超過30秒了，洪申翰委員。"],["洪委員申翰：這也包括我們自己未來的工作很關鍵的事情，我們希望……"],["吳主任委員誠文：公平、公開、公正。"],["洪委員申翰：是，希望主委可以遵守這個原則，好不好？今天這個風波走到現在，我們希望有一個收尾，未來可以做得更好，我們都往未來看，好不好？"],["主席：洪申翰委員，已經超過1分鐘了。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所有學者都要做得更好。"],["洪委員申翰：是，沒錯，謝謝。"],["主席：主委請回，謝謝洪申翰委員。","再來請郭昱晴委員質詢。不好意思，因為我要維持公平性。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}