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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:22,816\n請蔡易餘委員質詢謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委主委好\n\n2\n00:00:23,937 --> 00:00:42,165\n本來也是想跟你說這個外送平台的事情,我們就看整個早上很多立委都這樣都問了啦齁,我也沒有比較高門,所以我來換別題啦齁,這個主委,事實上歐盟齁,他們針對現在進行看牌,然後,嗯...\n\n3\n00:00:44,008 --> 00:01:09,224\n歐盟有針對這個今年年初的時候歐洲議會593票比21票壓倒性的一次都通過一個反票率法令就是說他為了很多企業說我都符合現在的淨零碳排我是屬於現在的一個環保的一個企業\n\n4\n00:01:10,024 --> 00:01:15,125\n就是說企業會用這樣的話術然後來告訴消費者然後讓消費者說他是一個比較符合這個零碳牌的他一個比較符合這一個比較先進的一個產業然後讓消費者去購買他的商品可是事實上就有發現了很多弊端就像過去歐盟曾經發現有一家製造衣服的很有名的一個品牌\n\n5\n00:01:38,809 --> 00:02:01,917\n他說他都用回收材料來做成他的衣服但是後來被查出來他的回收材料佔他的衣服的裡面只是一小部分所以他就有涉及到了誤導消費者然後最近還有一個就是奧德奧地利航空他說他擁有永久的航空燃料他是叫SAF然後所以他已經實現了這個碳中和的飛行\n\n6\n00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:21,238\n然後後來也被認定說這個對消費消費者有欺騙所以他被提告甚至後來直接被開罰了所以歐盟現在針對這件事情他覺得說哇現在大家都把ESG都把這個淨零碳排標榜的\n\n7\n00:02:22,478 --> 00:02:26,640\n非常神聖偉大所以企業也都說我有怕甚至台灣現在很多產業他也都不知道所謂淨零碳排他是整個有一個路徑的問題就是說我一個產品我從生產端就是說我原料到最後產品的形成他是不是有符合所謂的淨零碳排減碳的效果\n\n8\n00:02:49,893 --> 00:02:53,035\n有的企業不知道說我辦公室我這裡全部人多兩個我辦公室電我用綠電這樣我就符合這個淨營碳排然後我就說我是誰綠色能源企業就告訴大家所以主委針對我剛講的這個狀況那我們公平會有打算做怎樣的因應嗎\n\n9\n00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:32,091\n其實淨零碳排講白話說就是說你產品服務排出來的量跟你把它移除的量相減以後要是零才叫做淨零所以如果說我這裡有環保燈或是什麼這個不精準所以你要達到碳中和或是淨零\n\n10\n00:03:33,925 --> 00:03:56,893\n這個碳排你其實要先盤點要盤點我放多少量我要移除多少量那加減不足才去買碳權等等所以如果企業他只是簡單的講說我符合這個淨零碳排我符合碳中和這個資訊的揭露不清楚的是應該講清楚是啊所以就會有這樣的狀況因為事實上企業可能他會用很多名詞都天海中出戰環境友善\n\n11\n00:03:59,354 --> 00:04:16,109\n氣候綜合,我使用可分解的原料,或者是生態友善,哇,這件事大家就很漂亮。消費者,我們這樣的消費者,我們也希望說我們的消費行為可以讓全球這個減碳盡一份責任,我也要去買這樣的產品啊。\n\n12\n00:04:17,578 --> 00:04:42,780\n所以他們說他用什麼材料你就要看是那個材料但是用這些材料不等於碳中和所以這個環境部有這個指引那如果這個企業他有這些宣稱結果跟事實不符不符的話那就是用公平交易委員所以主委我要問你的態度因為台灣也是台灣雖然我們不是歐盟沒有向他們走到說歐盟他們是要立法\n\n13\n00:04:43,601 --> 00:05:11,241\n他們叫做用法令的方式所以他是在2026年要完成這樣的法律所以他認為說雖然淨零碳牌是一個目標但是不能欺騙消費者依然是一個最重要的事情那我們台灣的態度呢我想這個全世界都會遇到台灣現在也看到很多建築業標榜他是綠建築但是綠建築的標準在哪裡也許建築法規有\n\n14\n00:05:12,562 --> 00:05:36,393\n但是對於消費者而言他接受到的這些資訊是否是公平的他有辦法自己很清楚的知道這個資訊可能他的訊息沒有給你完整他只是部分使用綠電事實上他的生產過程並不是整個都是符合這個碳排的一個效果\n\n15\n00:05:37,253 --> 00:05:39,355\n現在有很多的人也跳出來說我要開課程\n\n16\n00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:24,497\n因為我要教這些企業怎樣可以達到淨零怎樣是可以把碳盤採你們的產品怎樣可以碳中和然後就有很多人出來開課那這個開課的過程基本上他也沒有辦法讓這些企業因為上了這些課後他就可以取得相關的認證或者是怎樣的證書但是勒\n\n17\n00:06:27,019 --> 00:06:30,764\n但是他們在於開課的時候,他們都會說我們是怎樣的,我們是怎樣經過認證過的所以就會產生很多類似這樣的一個詐欺,因為他們這個課程相對很貴\n\n18\n00:06:41,121 --> 00:07:05,912\n那這公平會這件事要不要管就是說他如果說他上了這個課可以拿到什麼認證結果沒有那我們會去瞭解你是講的那個認證是什麼認證那如果民死不服這個在公平網也是有介入的空間注意我要跟大家講這個事情會越來越多這個你不用懷疑因為整個國家整個全世界全球都是這樣在走啊所以每一個企業第一自身有壓力\n\n19\n00:07:07,601 --> 00:07:34,710\n第二企業也想要讓消費者相信他們是有做到的可是事實上他們有沒有做到這件事情是一個大的問號因為他們需要第三方的驗證包括這個第三方的驗證是不是真的符合這個也有問題所以你現在就是說驗證公司這間公司是什麼來歷的他是阿薩布魯的公司還是他真的全世界走得通的驗證的公司\n\n20\n00:07:36,082 --> 00:07:51,355\n這個你們也必須要,你們都要查清楚啊,你不能夠整個大家都在推我們碳費開始課證齁,企業開始說好,我們大家都要,已經有這個碳費的壓力了,大家都要改進,主要改進的時候很多人都要被詐騙去,會發生喔\n\n21\n00:07:56,708 --> 00:08:25,848\n我認為你們是真的要注意而已要開始了解甚至你們應該針對這樣的反票率的詐騙你們就要開始有一個專案然後開始去研究然後說未來是不是需要用法令的方式你們也可以是希望行政院來看哪一個部門環境部還是怎樣總是要立法嘛或者是法務部啊\n\n22\n00:08:27,048 --> 00:08:41,215\n我告訴你這事情我們現在我是說的比較輕鬆,這些事我敢預測,未來他這是變一個選學,這個選學會變成一門很大的生意,既然變成很大的生意,他就有很多個人是詐騙的,所以我們要去杜絕,好不好?好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t22816\t請蔡易餘委員質詢謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委主委好\n23937\t42165\t本來也是想跟你說這個外送平台的事情,我們就看整個早上很多立委都這樣都問了啦齁,我也沒有比較高門,所以我來換別題啦齁,這個主委,事實上歐盟齁,他們針對現在進行看牌,然後,嗯...\n44008\t69224\t歐盟有針對這個今年年初的時候歐洲議會593票比21票壓倒性的一次都通過一個反票率法令就是說他為了很多企業說我都符合現在的淨零碳排我是屬於現在的一個環保的一個企業\n70024\t75125\t就是說企業會用這樣的話術然後來告訴消費者然後讓消費者說他是一個比較符合這個零碳牌的他一個比較符合這一個比較先進的一個產業然後讓消費者去購買他的商品可是事實上就有發現了很多弊端就像過去歐盟曾經發現有一家製造衣服的很有名的一個品牌\n98809\t121917\t他說他都用回收材料來做成他的衣服但是後來被查出來他的回收材料佔他的衣服的裡面只是一小部分所以他就有涉及到了誤導消費者然後最近還有一個就是奧德奧地利航空他說他擁有永久的航空燃料他是叫SAF然後所以他已經實現了這個碳中和的飛行\n125270\t141238\t然後後來也被認定說這個對消費消費者有欺騙所以他被提告甚至後來直接被開罰了所以歐盟現在針對這件事情他覺得說哇現在大家都把ESG都把這個淨零碳排標榜的\n142478\t146640\t非常神聖偉大所以企業也都說我有怕甚至台灣現在很多產業他也都不知道所謂淨零碳排他是整個有一個路徑的問題就是說我一個產品我從生產端就是說我原料到最後產品的形成他是不是有符合所謂的淨零碳排減碳的效果\n169893\t173035\t有的企業不知道說我辦公室我這裡全部人多兩個我辦公室電我用綠電這樣我就符合這個淨營碳排然後我就說我是誰綠色能源企業就告訴大家所以主委針對我剛講的這個狀況那我們公平會有打算做怎樣的因應嗎\n192570\t212091\t其實淨零碳排講白話說就是說你產品服務排出來的量跟你把它移除的量相減以後要是零才叫做淨零所以如果說我這裡有環保燈或是什麼這個不精準所以你要達到碳中和或是淨零\n213925\t236893\t這個碳排你其實要先盤點要盤點我放多少量我要移除多少量那加減不足才去買碳權等等所以如果企業他只是簡單的講說我符合這個淨零碳排我符合碳中和這個資訊的揭露不清楚的是應該講清楚是啊所以就會有這樣的狀況因為事實上企業可能他會用很多名詞都天海中出戰環境友善\n239354\t256109\t氣候綜合,我使用可分解的原料,或者是生態友善,哇,這件事大家就很漂亮。消費者,我們這樣的消費者,我們也希望說我們的消費行為可以讓全球這個減碳盡一份責任,我也要去買這樣的產品啊。\n257578\t282780\t所以他們說他用什麼材料你就要看是那個材料但是用這些材料不等於碳中和所以這個環境部有這個指引那如果這個企業他有這些宣稱結果跟事實不符不符的話那就是用公平交易委員所以主委我要問你的態度因為台灣也是台灣雖然我們不是歐盟沒有向他們走到說歐盟他們是要立法\n283601\t311241\t他們叫做用法令的方式所以他是在2026年要完成這樣的法律所以他認為說雖然淨零碳牌是一個目標但是不能欺騙消費者依然是一個最重要的事情那我們台灣的態度呢我想這個全世界都會遇到台灣現在也看到很多建築業標榜他是綠建築但是綠建築的標準在哪裡也許建築法規有\n312562\t336393\t但是對於消費者而言他接受到的這些資訊是否是公平的他有辦法自己很清楚的知道這個資訊可能他的訊息沒有給你完整他只是部分使用綠電事實上他的生產過程並不是整個都是符合這個碳排的一個效果\n337253\t339355\t現在有很多的人也跳出來說我要開課程\n361480\t384497\t因為我要教這些企業怎樣可以達到淨零怎樣是可以把碳盤採你們的產品怎樣可以碳中和然後就有很多人出來開課那這個開課的過程基本上他也沒有辦法讓這些企業因為上了這些課後他就可以取得相關的認證或者是怎樣的證書但是勒\n387019\t390764\t但是他們在於開課的時候,他們都會說我們是怎樣的,我們是怎樣經過認證過的所以就會產生很多類似這樣的一個詐欺,因為他們這個課程相對很貴\n401121\t425912\t那這公平會這件事要不要管就是說他如果說他上了這個課可以拿到什麼認證結果沒有那我們會去瞭解你是講的那個認證是什麼認證那如果民死不服這個在公平網也是有介入的空間注意我要跟大家講這個事情會越來越多這個你不用懷疑因為整個國家整個全世界全球都是這樣在走啊所以每一個企業第一自身有壓力\n427601\t454710\t第二企業也想要讓消費者相信他們是有做到的可是事實上他們有沒有做到這件事情是一個大的問號因為他們需要第三方的驗證包括這個第三方的驗證是不是真的符合這個也有問題所以你現在就是說驗證公司這間公司是什麼來歷的他是阿薩布魯的公司還是他真的全世界走得通的驗證的公司\n456082\t471355\t這個你們也必須要,你們都要查清楚啊,你不能夠整個大家都在推我們碳費開始課證齁,企業開始說好,我們大家都要,已經有這個碳費的壓力了,大家都要改進,主要改進的時候很多人都要被詐騙去,會發生喔\n476708\t505848\t我認為你們是真的要注意而已要開始了解甚至你們應該針對這樣的反票率的詐騙你們就要開始有一個專案然後開始去研究然後說未來是不是需要用法令的方式你們也可以是希望行政院來看哪一個部門環境部還是怎樣總是要立法嘛或者是法務部啊\n507048\t521215\t我告訴你這事情我們現在我是說的比較輕鬆,這些事我敢預測,未來他這是變一個選學,這個選學會變成一門很大的生意,既然變成很大的生意,他就有很多個人是詐騙的,所以我們要去杜絕,好不好?好,謝謝\n","txt":"請蔡易餘委員質詢謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委主委好\n本來也是想跟你說這個外送平台的事情,我們就看整個早上很多立委都這樣都問了啦齁,我也沒有比較高門,所以我來換別題啦齁,這個主委,事實上歐盟齁,他們針對現在進行看牌,然後,嗯...\n歐盟有針對這個今年年初的時候歐洲議會593票比21票壓倒性的一次都通過一個反票率法令就是說他為了很多企業說我都符合現在的淨零碳排我是屬於現在的一個環保的一個企業\n就是說企業會用這樣的話術然後來告訴消費者然後讓消費者說他是一個比較符合這個零碳牌的他一個比較符合這一個比較先進的一個產業然後讓消費者去購買他的商品可是事實上就有發現了很多弊端就像過去歐盟曾經發現有一家製造衣服的很有名的一個品牌\n他說他都用回收材料來做成他的衣服但是後來被查出來他的回收材料佔他的衣服的裡面只是一小部分所以他就有涉及到了誤導消費者然後最近還有一個就是奧德奧地利航空他說他擁有永久的航空燃料他是叫SAF然後所以他已經實現了這個碳中和的飛行\n然後後來也被認定說這個對消費消費者有欺騙所以他被提告甚至後來直接被開罰了所以歐盟現在針對這件事情他覺得說哇現在大家都把ESG都把這個淨零碳排標榜的\n非常神聖偉大所以企業也都說我有怕甚至台灣現在很多產業他也都不知道所謂淨零碳排他是整個有一個路徑的問題就是說我一個產品我從生產端就是說我原料到最後產品的形成他是不是有符合所謂的淨零碳排減碳的效果\n有的企業不知道說我辦公室我這裡全部人多兩個我辦公室電我用綠電這樣我就符合這個淨營碳排然後我就說我是誰綠色能源企業就告訴大家所以主委針對我剛講的這個狀況那我們公平會有打算做怎樣的因應嗎\n其實淨零碳排講白話說就是說你產品服務排出來的量跟你把它移除的量相減以後要是零才叫做淨零所以如果說我這裡有環保燈或是什麼這個不精準所以你要達到碳中和或是淨零\n這個碳排你其實要先盤點要盤點我放多少量我要移除多少量那加減不足才去買碳權等等所以如果企業他只是簡單的講說我符合這個淨零碳排我符合碳中和這個資訊的揭露不清楚的是應該講清楚是啊所以就會有這樣的狀況因為事實上企業可能他會用很多名詞都天海中出戰環境友善\n氣候綜合,我使用可分解的原料,或者是生態友善,哇,這件事大家就很漂亮。消費者,我們這樣的消費者,我們也希望說我們的消費行為可以讓全球這個減碳盡一份責任,我也要去買這樣的產品啊。\n所以他們說他用什麼材料你就要看是那個材料但是用這些材料不等於碳中和所以這個環境部有這個指引那如果這個企業他有這些宣稱結果跟事實不符不符的話那就是用公平交易委員所以主委我要問你的態度因為台灣也是台灣雖然我們不是歐盟沒有向他們走到說歐盟他們是要立法\n他們叫做用法令的方式所以他是在2026年要完成這樣的法律所以他認為說雖然淨零碳牌是一個目標但是不能欺騙消費者依然是一個最重要的事情那我們台灣的態度呢我想這個全世界都會遇到台灣現在也看到很多建築業標榜他是綠建築但是綠建築的標準在哪裡也許建築法規有\n但是對於消費者而言他接受到的這些資訊是否是公平的他有辦法自己很清楚的知道這個資訊可能他的訊息沒有給你完整他只是部分使用綠電事實上他的生產過程並不是整個都是符合這個碳排的一個效果\n現在有很多的人也跳出來說我要開課程\n因為我要教這些企業怎樣可以達到淨零怎樣是可以把碳盤採你們的產品怎樣可以碳中和然後就有很多人出來開課那這個開課的過程基本上他也沒有辦法讓這些企業因為上了這些課後他就可以取得相關的認證或者是怎樣的證書但是勒\n但是他們在於開課的時候,他們都會說我們是怎樣的,我們是怎樣經過認證過的所以就會產生很多類似這樣的一個詐欺,因為他們這個課程相對很貴\n那這公平會這件事要不要管就是說他如果說他上了這個課可以拿到什麼認證結果沒有那我們會去瞭解你是講的那個認證是什麼認證那如果民死不服這個在公平網也是有介入的空間注意我要跟大家講這個事情會越來越多這個你不用懷疑因為整個國家整個全世界全球都是這樣在走啊所以每一個企業第一自身有壓力\n第二企業也想要讓消費者相信他們是有做到的可是事實上他們有沒有做到這件事情是一個大的問號因為他們需要第三方的驗證包括這個第三方的驗證是不是真的符合這個也有問題所以你現在就是說驗證公司這間公司是什麼來歷的他是阿薩布魯的公司還是他真的全世界走得通的驗證的公司\n這個你們也必須要,你們都要查清楚啊,你不能夠整個大家都在推我們碳費開始課證齁,企業開始說好,我們大家都要,已經有這個碳費的壓力了,大家都要改進,主要改進的時候很多人都要被詐騙去,會發生喔\n我認為你們是真的要注意而已要開始了解甚至你們應該針對這樣的反票率的詐騙你們就要開始有一個專案然後開始去研究然後說未來是不是需要用法令的方式你們也可以是希望行政院來看哪一個部門環境部還是怎樣總是要立法嘛或者是法務部啊\n我告訴你這事情我們現在我是說的比較輕鬆,這些事我敢預測,未來他這是變一個選學,這個選學會變成一門很大的生意,既然變成很大的生意,他就有很多個人是詐騙的,所以我們要去杜絕,好不好?好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:22.816\n請蔡易餘委員質詢謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委主委好\n\n00:23.937 --> 00:42.165\n本來也是想跟你說這個外送平台的事情,我們就看整個早上很多立委都這樣都問了啦齁,我也沒有比較高門,所以我來換別題啦齁,這個主委,事實上歐盟齁,他們針對現在進行看牌,然後,嗯...\n\n00:44.008 --> 01:09.224\n歐盟有針對這個今年年初的時候歐洲議會593票比21票壓倒性的一次都通過一個反票率法令就是說他為了很多企業說我都符合現在的淨零碳排我是屬於現在的一個環保的一個企業\n\n01:10.024 --> 01:15.125\n就是說企業會用這樣的話術然後來告訴消費者然後讓消費者說他是一個比較符合這個零碳牌的他一個比較符合這一個比較先進的一個產業然後讓消費者去購買他的商品可是事實上就有發現了很多弊端就像過去歐盟曾經發現有一家製造衣服的很有名的一個品牌\n\n01:38.809 --> 02:01.917\n他說他都用回收材料來做成他的衣服但是後來被查出來他的回收材料佔他的衣服的裡面只是一小部分所以他就有涉及到了誤導消費者然後最近還有一個就是奧德奧地利航空他說他擁有永久的航空燃料他是叫SAF然後所以他已經實現了這個碳中和的飛行\n\n02:05.270 --> 02:21.238\n然後後來也被認定說這個對消費消費者有欺騙所以他被提告甚至後來直接被開罰了所以歐盟現在針對這件事情他覺得說哇現在大家都把ESG都把這個淨零碳排標榜的\n\n02:22.478 --> 02:26.640\n非常神聖偉大所以企業也都說我有怕甚至台灣現在很多產業他也都不知道所謂淨零碳排他是整個有一個路徑的問題就是說我一個產品我從生產端就是說我原料到最後產品的形成他是不是有符合所謂的淨零碳排減碳的效果\n\n02:49.893 --> 02:53.035\n有的企業不知道說我辦公室我這裡全部人多兩個我辦公室電我用綠電這樣我就符合這個淨營碳排然後我就說我是誰綠色能源企業就告訴大家所以主委針對我剛講的這個狀況那我們公平會有打算做怎樣的因應嗎\n\n03:12.570 --> 03:32.091\n其實淨零碳排講白話說就是說你產品服務排出來的量跟你把它移除的量相減以後要是零才叫做淨零所以如果說我這裡有環保燈或是什麼這個不精準所以你要達到碳中和或是淨零\n\n03:33.925 --> 03:56.893\n這個碳排你其實要先盤點要盤點我放多少量我要移除多少量那加減不足才去買碳權等等所以如果企業他只是簡單的講說我符合這個淨零碳排我符合碳中和這個資訊的揭露不清楚的是應該講清楚是啊所以就會有這樣的狀況因為事實上企業可能他會用很多名詞都天海中出戰環境友善\n\n03:59.354 --> 04:16.109\n氣候綜合,我使用可分解的原料,或者是生態友善,哇,這件事大家就很漂亮。消費者,我們這樣的消費者,我們也希望說我們的消費行為可以讓全球這個減碳盡一份責任,我也要去買這樣的產品啊。\n\n04:17.578 --> 04:42.780\n所以他們說他用什麼材料你就要看是那個材料但是用這些材料不等於碳中和所以這個環境部有這個指引那如果這個企業他有這些宣稱結果跟事實不符不符的話那就是用公平交易委員所以主委我要問你的態度因為台灣也是台灣雖然我們不是歐盟沒有向他們走到說歐盟他們是要立法\n\n04:43.601 --> 05:11.241\n他們叫做用法令的方式所以他是在2026年要完成這樣的法律所以他認為說雖然淨零碳牌是一個目標但是不能欺騙消費者依然是一個最重要的事情那我們台灣的態度呢我想這個全世界都會遇到台灣現在也看到很多建築業標榜他是綠建築但是綠建築的標準在哪裡也許建築法規有\n\n05:12.562 --> 05:36.393\n但是對於消費者而言他接受到的這些資訊是否是公平的他有辦法自己很清楚的知道這個資訊可能他的訊息沒有給你完整他只是部分使用綠電事實上他的生產過程並不是整個都是符合這個碳排的一個效果\n\n05:37.253 --> 05:39.355\n現在有很多的人也跳出來說我要開課程\n\n06:01.480 --> 06:24.497\n因為我要教這些企業怎樣可以達到淨零怎樣是可以把碳盤採你們的產品怎樣可以碳中和然後就有很多人出來開課那這個開課的過程基本上他也沒有辦法讓這些企業因為上了這些課後他就可以取得相關的認證或者是怎樣的證書但是勒\n\n06:27.019 --> 06:30.764\n但是他們在於開課的時候,他們都會說我們是怎樣的,我們是怎樣經過認證過的所以就會產生很多類似這樣的一個詐欺,因為他們這個課程相對很貴\n\n06:41.121 --> 07:05.912\n那這公平會這件事要不要管就是說他如果說他上了這個課可以拿到什麼認證結果沒有那我們會去瞭解你是講的那個認證是什麼認證那如果民死不服這個在公平網也是有介入的空間注意我要跟大家講這個事情會越來越多這個你不用懷疑因為整個國家整個全世界全球都是這樣在走啊所以每一個企業第一自身有壓力\n\n07:07.601 --> 07:34.710\n第二企業也想要讓消費者相信他們是有做到的可是事實上他們有沒有做到這件事情是一個大的問號因為他們需要第三方的驗證包括這個第三方的驗證是不是真的符合這個也有問題所以你現在就是說驗證公司這間公司是什麼來歷的他是阿薩布魯的公司還是他真的全世界走得通的驗證的公司\n\n07:36.082 --> 07:51.355\n這個你們也必須要,你們都要查清楚啊,你不能夠整個大家都在推我們碳費開始課證齁,企業開始說好,我們大家都要,已經有這個碳費的壓力了,大家都要改進,主要改進的時候很多人都要被詐騙去,會發生喔\n\n07:56.708 --> 08:25.848\n我認為你們是真的要注意而已要開始了解甚至你們應該針對這樣的反票率的詐騙你們就要開始有一個專案然後開始去研究然後說未來是不是需要用法令的方式你們也可以是希望行政院來看哪一個部門環境部還是怎樣總是要立法嘛或者是法務部啊\n\n08:27.048 --> 08:41.215\n我告訴你這事情我們現在我是說的比較輕鬆,這些事我敢預測,未來他這是變一個選學,這個選學會變成一門很大的生意,既然變成很大的生意,他就有很多個人是詐騙的,所以我們要去杜絕,好不好?好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":22.816,"text":"請蔡易餘委員質詢謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委主委好"},{"start":23.937,"end":42.165,"text":"本來也是想跟你說這個外送平台的事情,我們就看整個早上很多立委都這樣都問了啦齁,我也沒有比較高門,所以我來換別題啦齁,這個主委,事實上歐盟齁,他們針對現在進行看牌,然後,嗯..."},{"start":44.008,"end":69.224,"text":"歐盟有針對這個今年年初的時候歐洲議會593票比21票壓倒性的一次都通過一個反票率法令就是說他為了很多企業說我都符合現在的淨零碳排我是屬於現在的一個環保的一個企業"},{"start":70.024,"end":75.125,"text":"就是說企業會用這樣的話術然後來告訴消費者然後讓消費者說他是一個比較符合這個零碳牌的他一個比較符合這一個比較先進的一個產業然後讓消費者去購買他的商品可是事實上就有發現了很多弊端就像過去歐盟曾經發現有一家製造衣服的很有名的一個品牌"},{"start":98.809,"end":121.917,"text":"他說他都用回收材料來做成他的衣服但是後來被查出來他的回收材料佔他的衣服的裡面只是一小部分所以他就有涉及到了誤導消費者然後最近還有一個就是奧德奧地利航空他說他擁有永久的航空燃料他是叫SAF然後所以他已經實現了這個碳中和的飛行"},{"start":125.27,"end":141.238,"text":"然後後來也被認定說這個對消費消費者有欺騙所以他被提告甚至後來直接被開罰了所以歐盟現在針對這件事情他覺得說哇現在大家都把ESG都把這個淨零碳排標榜的"},{"start":142.478,"end":146.64,"text":"非常神聖偉大所以企業也都說我有怕甚至台灣現在很多產業他也都不知道所謂淨零碳排他是整個有一個路徑的問題就是說我一個產品我從生產端就是說我原料到最後產品的形成他是不是有符合所謂的淨零碳排減碳的效果"},{"start":169.893,"end":173.035,"text":"有的企業不知道說我辦公室我這裡全部人多兩個我辦公室電我用綠電這樣我就符合這個淨營碳排然後我就說我是誰綠色能源企業就告訴大家所以主委針對我剛講的這個狀況那我們公平會有打算做怎樣的因應嗎"},{"start":192.57,"end":212.091,"text":"其實淨零碳排講白話說就是說你產品服務排出來的量跟你把它移除的量相減以後要是零才叫做淨零所以如果說我這裡有環保燈或是什麼這個不精準所以你要達到碳中和或是淨零"},{"start":213.925,"end":236.893,"text":"這個碳排你其實要先盤點要盤點我放多少量我要移除多少量那加減不足才去買碳權等等所以如果企業他只是簡單的講說我符合這個淨零碳排我符合碳中和這個資訊的揭露不清楚的是應該講清楚是啊所以就會有這樣的狀況因為事實上企業可能他會用很多名詞都天海中出戰環境友善"},{"start":239.354,"end":256.109,"text":"氣候綜合,我使用可分解的原料,或者是生態友善,哇,這件事大家就很漂亮。消費者,我們這樣的消費者,我們也希望說我們的消費行為可以讓全球這個減碳盡一份責任,我也要去買這樣的產品啊。"},{"start":257.578,"end":282.78,"text":"所以他們說他用什麼材料你就要看是那個材料但是用這些材料不等於碳中和所以這個環境部有這個指引那如果這個企業他有這些宣稱結果跟事實不符不符的話那就是用公平交易委員所以主委我要問你的態度因為台灣也是台灣雖然我們不是歐盟沒有向他們走到說歐盟他們是要立法"},{"start":283.601,"end":311.241,"text":"他們叫做用法令的方式所以他是在2026年要完成這樣的法律所以他認為說雖然淨零碳牌是一個目標但是不能欺騙消費者依然是一個最重要的事情那我們台灣的態度呢我想這個全世界都會遇到台灣現在也看到很多建築業標榜他是綠建築但是綠建築的標準在哪裡也許建築法規有"},{"start":312.562,"end":336.393,"text":"但是對於消費者而言他接受到的這些資訊是否是公平的他有辦法自己很清楚的知道這個資訊可能他的訊息沒有給你完整他只是部分使用綠電事實上他的生產過程並不是整個都是符合這個碳排的一個效果"},{"start":337.253,"end":339.355,"text":"現在有很多的人也跳出來說我要開課程"},{"start":361.48,"end":384.497,"text":"因為我要教這些企業怎樣可以達到淨零怎樣是可以把碳盤採你們的產品怎樣可以碳中和然後就有很多人出來開課那這個開課的過程基本上他也沒有辦法讓這些企業因為上了這些課後他就可以取得相關的認證或者是怎樣的證書但是勒"},{"start":387.019,"end":390.764,"text":"但是他們在於開課的時候,他們都會說我們是怎樣的,我們是怎樣經過認證過的所以就會產生很多類似這樣的一個詐欺,因為他們這個課程相對很貴"},{"start":401.121,"end":425.912,"text":"那這公平會這件事要不要管就是說他如果說他上了這個課可以拿到什麼認證結果沒有那我們會去瞭解你是講的那個認證是什麼認證那如果民死不服這個在公平網也是有介入的空間注意我要跟大家講這個事情會越來越多這個你不用懷疑因為整個國家整個全世界全球都是這樣在走啊所以每一個企業第一自身有壓力"},{"start":427.601,"end":454.71,"text":"第二企業也想要讓消費者相信他們是有做到的可是事實上他們有沒有做到這件事情是一個大的問號因為他們需要第三方的驗證包括這個第三方的驗證是不是真的符合這個也有問題所以你現在就是說驗證公司這間公司是什麼來歷的他是阿薩布魯的公司還是他真的全世界走得通的驗證的公司"},{"start":456.082,"end":471.355,"text":"這個你們也必須要,你們都要查清楚啊,你不能夠整個大家都在推我們碳費開始課證齁,企業開始說好,我們大家都要,已經有這個碳費的壓力了,大家都要改進,主要改進的時候很多人都要被詐騙去,會發生喔"},{"start":476.708,"end":505.848,"text":"我認為你們是真的要注意而已要開始了解甚至你們應該針對這樣的反票率的詐騙你們就要開始有一個專案然後開始去研究然後說未來是不是需要用法令的方式你們也可以是希望行政院來看哪一個部門環境部還是怎樣總是要立法嘛或者是法務部啊"},{"start":507.048,"end":521.215,"text":"我告訴你這事情我們現在我是說的比較輕鬆,這些事我敢預測,未來他這是變一個選學,這個選學會變成一門很大的生意,既然變成很大的生意,他就有很多個人是詐騙的,所以我們要去杜絕,好不好?好,謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:39:45 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11:48:31","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154994,"gazette":{"lineno":851,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時39分）謝謝主席。我們是不是有請李主委？"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委好。本來也是想要跟你說外送平臺的事情，可是看整個早上很多立委都問了，我也沒有比較會問，所以我來換別題。主委，事實上歐盟針對現在淨零碳排，在今年年初的時候，歐洲議會593票比21票，壓倒性的一致通過一個反漂綠法令，就是很多企業會說自己都符合現在的淨零碳排、屬於現在的環保企業，企業會用這樣的話術來告訴消費者，然後讓消費者認為它是一個比較符合零碳排、比較符合我們所說的一個比較先進的產業，然後讓消費者去購買它的商品。可是事實上就發現了很多弊端，就像過去歐盟曾經發現有一家製造衣服很有名的品牌，說它都用回收材料來做成衣服，但是後來被查出來，它的回收材料只是占衣服一小部分，所以就有涉及到了誤導消費者。最近還有奧地利航空，說它都使用永久的航空燃料，叫做SAF，所以它已經踐行了、實踐了碳中和的飛行，後來也被認定對消費者有欺騙，所以它被提告，甚至後來直接被開罰了。所以歐盟現在針對這件事情，它覺得現在大家都把ESG淨零碳排標榜得非常神聖偉大，企業也都說自己有踐行，甚至臺灣現在很多產業也都不知道所謂淨零碳排有路徑的問題，就是一個商品從生產端、從原料到最後產品的形成是不是有符合所謂淨零碳排減碳的效果？有的企業不知道，以為它的辦公室全部都換成節能的，或是辦公室的電有用綠電，這樣就符合淨零碳排了、就說自己是屬於綠色能源企業，就這樣自己講了。主委，針對我剛講的這個狀況，公平會有打算怎樣因應嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：謝謝委員，其實淨零碳排，講白話就是產品服務排出來的量跟把它移除的量相減以後要是零，才叫做淨零，如果說我這裡有環保燈或是什麼，這個不精準啦！所以你要達到碳中和或是淨零碳排，其實要先盤點，要盤點放多少量、要移除多少量，加減不足才去買碳權等等。如果企業只是簡單的講「我符合淨零碳排」、「我符合碳中和」，這個資訊的揭露不清楚，是應該講清楚的，所以……"],["蔡委員易餘：是啊，就會有這樣的狀況啊！因為事實上企業可能會用很多名詞，聽起來都很讚的啊！環境友善、氣候中和、使用可分解的原料，或者是生態友善，哇！這些字每個字都很漂亮。我們站在消費者的立場，我們也希望我們的消費行為可以為全球減碳盡一份責任，我也要去買這樣的產品。"],["李主任委員鎂：所以他們如果說它用什麼材料，那就要確實是那個材料，但是用這些材料不等於碳中和……"],["蔡委員易餘：是啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：所以環境部有指引，如果企業有這些宣稱，結果跟事實不符的話，那就是用公平交易法……"],["蔡委員易餘：所以主委，我還是要問你的態度啦，因為臺灣雖然不是歐盟，沒有像他們走到……歐盟是要立法，他們用法令的方式，在2026年要完成這樣的法律，所以它認為雖然淨零碳排是一個目標，但是不能欺騙消費者，依然是最重要的事情。而我們臺灣的態度呢？我想全世界都會遇到，臺灣現在也看到很多建築業標榜它是綠建築，但是綠建築的標準在哪裡？也許建築法規有，但是對於消費者而言，他接受到的這些資訊是否公平，或者他有辦法自己很清楚的知道這個資訊可能沒有完整，只是部分使用綠電，事實上它的生產過程並不是整個都是符合碳排的效果。關於這個部分，公平會要有一個態度嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：就是它如果宣稱不實，環境部的法令沒有特別的規定，這公平會有處理空間，你不實！你要講什麼就要做到什麼，這個在公平法是可以處理的。"],["蔡委員易餘：這是第一個。第二個，我這個裡面有講，現在有很多的人也跳出來說要開課程，因為要教這些企業怎樣可以達到淨零、怎樣是可以把碳盤查、產品怎樣可以碳中和，然後就有很多人出來開課，開課的過程基本上也沒有辦法讓這些企業因為上了這些課之後，就可以取得相關認證或者是怎樣的證書，但是在開課的時候，他們都會說他們是怎樣經過認證過的，所以就會產生了很多類似這樣的詐欺，因為這個課程可能相對很貴，那麼公平會對這件事要不要管？"],["李主任委員鎂：就是它如果說上了這個課可以拿到什麼認證，結果沒有，我們會去了解它說的那個認證是什麼認證，如果名實不符，這個在公平法也是有介入的空間。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，我要跟你說，這種事情會越來越多。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：這個你不用懷疑，因為整個國家、整個全世界，全球都是這樣在走啊！所以每一個企業，第一，自身有壓力；第二，企業也想要讓消費者相信他們是有做到的，可是事實上他們有沒有做到這件事，是一個大的問號，因為他們需要第三方的驗證，包括這個第三方的驗證是不是真的符合，這個也有問題，對不對？所以現在連這間驗證公司是什麼來歷的，它是「阿沙不魯」的公司，還是它真的是全世界走得通的驗證公司？你們都必須要查清楚啊！你不能到時候大家都在推，碳費開始課徵後，企業開始覺得有碳費的壓力了，大家都來改進，就在改進的時候，很多人卻被詐騙，會發生喔！我覺得這個部分你們真的不是要注意而已，而是要開始去了解，甚至你們應該針對這樣漂綠的詐騙開始有一個專案、開始去研究，然後未來是不是需要用法令的方式，你們也可以……是希望行政院來看哪一個部門，環境部還是怎樣，總是要立法嘛！或者是法務部啊！我覺得這件事情，現在我是用說的，聽起來比較輕鬆，不過這些事我敢預測，未來會變成一個顯學，這個顯學會變成一門很大的生意，既然變成很大的生意，就有很多可能是詐騙的，所以我們要去杜絕，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["主席：我們中午不休息，延長會議時間。","現在請羅智強委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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