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312.102, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 312.102, \"end\": 312.303, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"嫁\", \"start\": 312.303, \"end\": 312.323, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 314.827, \"end\": 314.847, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,810\n請羅智強委員諮詢有請主委請你主委\n\n2\n00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:41,267\n委員好主委好這個外送平台UberEats說要用307億元收購第一大的業者FullPanda那目前這兩家是台灣外送平台產業當中最大的兩家嘛對不對那合併之後市佔率大概是台灣整體外送市場的百分之多少\n\n3\n00:00:43,866 --> 00:00:44,187\n市場的結構會改變\n\n4\n00:01:04,301 --> 00:01:18,330\n那已經超過公平會認定的單一獨佔廠商的標準了嘛對不對遠遠超過啦對不對所以未來我覺得公平會在審議要不要許可合併的時候真的要非常審慎去考慮\n\n5\n00:01:19,310 --> 00:01:47,073\n那除了說市場秩序公平競爭也要去思考今天對國內相關的業者消費者乃至於外送這個勞工的一個權益的影響我覺得公平會都要審慎的思考要麻煩我們的李主委那麼實際上剛剛我們主委已經講兩大龍頭業者合併後的市佔率是超過八成也已經超過了公平法對於獨佔者的規定\n\n6\n00:01:48,214 --> 00:02:02,623\n那麼對於相關同業者就可能會產生不公平競爭的疑慮那麼我們就以過去公平會處理的案例來看看說目前這個申請案就是還沒進到公平會對不對\n\n7\n00:02:05,812 --> 00:02:34,700\n已經到公平位但是文件還沒有齊備我們沒有正式受理還沒正式受理文件未齊備我想以過去的一個狀況來問問主委那您對於這個UberEats跟FullPanda的一個這個結合那麼合併的這個事情你們的態度看法是什麼過去啊國內的KTV有兩大龍頭是錢貴跟好樂迪嘛對不對是那這兩家的合計市佔率是大概是多少\n\n8\n00:02:36,428 --> 00:02:50,718\n有超過5成因為各縣市不一樣我看的資料是達到7成啦他們申請也非常合併非常多次嘛那公平會準了嗎沒有準理由是什麼我們整個評估經濟利益跟縣市競爭的不利益那當時個別這個不準的理由可能要再進一步\n\n9\n00:03:01,089 --> 00:03:30,187\n我看了一下資料除了你剛剛講的以外簡單講就合併之後的市場力量太大了啦然後呢可能對於會減少對上游唱片發行業支付版權的費用也可能會同時提高下游KTV消費者唱歌的費用因為他們會居於很大的一個價格的一個談判競爭優勢嘛那既然這個錢櫃跟好樂迪會有這個問題請問UberEats跟FoodPanda會不會也有同樣的問題\n\n10\n00:03:34,581 --> 00:03:58,623\n這是共同就是市場力變大了以後將來這個UberEats提價的能力還有對他的利害關係人談判力量的能力這個都會再考量我這樣講這兩個國際外送平台龍頭他已經有很大的技術跟科技的優勢就本來市場力量其實就很大了現在就很大了\n\n11\n00:03:59,324 --> 00:04:00,687\n美單抽取商品價格的百分之多少有掌握嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:13,336 --> 00:04:35,675\n外送費大概30到40或是28到38不等要看這個餐廳的結構跟他的客戶數大概所以28到40都可能吧對不對那這比例是非常高的囉其實對於一般商家來講負擔是很重的吧對不對他已經有很大的價格優勢那如果他把抽成拉得更高的話\n\n13\n00:04:36,556 --> 00:05:00,731\n那麼對於苦心經營的餐廳或小失業者那更是更大的一個威脅我舉個例子主委假設你開一家小餐廳除非你不打算接外賣的訂單那一旦他條件開的不管是283040甚至45他開的這個價格這個所謂的費率高到你無法承受的地步的話那你怎麼辦\n\n14\n00:05:02,435 --> 00:05:12,323\n你跟他根本沒有任何可以抗衡的力量對不對這是為什麼外界非常擔心這個合併案會對業者產生影響同時如果成本提高可能會轉嫁給誰\n\n15\n00:05:14,827 --> 00:05:14,847\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t810\t請羅智強委員諮詢有請主委請你主委\n16360\t41267\t委員好主委好這個外送平台Uber Eats說要用307億元收購第一大的業者Full Panda那目前這兩家是台灣外送平台產業當中最大的兩家嘛對不對那合併之後市佔率大概是台灣整體外送市場的百分之多少\n43866\t44187\t市場的結構會改變\n64301\t78330\t那已經超過公平會認定的單一獨佔廠商的標準了嘛對不對遠遠超過啦 對不對所以未來我覺得公平會在審議要不要許可合併的時候真的要非常審慎去考慮\n79310\t107073\t那除了說市場秩序公平競爭也要去思考今天對國內相關的業者消費者乃至於外送這個勞工的一個權益的影響我覺得公平會都要審慎的思考要麻煩我們的李主委那麼實際上剛剛我們主委已經講兩大龍頭業者合併後的市佔率是超過八成也已經超過了公平法對於獨佔者的規定\n108214\t122623\t那麼對於相關同業者就可能會產生不公平競爭的疑慮那麼我們就以過去公平會處理的案例來看看說目前這個申請案就是還沒進到公平會對不對\n125812\t154700\t已經到公平位但是文件還沒有齊備我們沒有正式受理還沒正式受理文件未齊備我想以過去的一個狀況來問問主委那您對於這個Uber Eats跟Full Panda的一個這個結合那麼合併的這個事情你們的態度看法是什麼過去啊國內的KTV有兩大龍頭是錢貴跟好樂迪嘛對不對是那這兩家的合計市佔率是大概是多少\n156428\t170718\t有超過5成因為各縣市不一樣我看的資料是達到7成啦他們申請也非常合併非常多次嘛那公平會準了嗎沒有準理由是什麼我們整個評估經濟利益跟縣市競爭的不利益那當時個別這個不準的理由可能要再進一步\n181089\t210187\t我看了一下資料 除了你剛剛講的以外簡單講就合併之後的市場力量太大了啦然後呢 可能對於會減少對上游唱片發行業支付版權的費用也可能會同時提高下游KTV消費者唱歌的費用因為他們會居於很大的一個價格的一個談判競爭優勢嘛那既然這個錢櫃跟好樂迪會有這個問題請問Uber Eats跟Food Panda會不會也有同樣的問題\n214581\t238623\t這是共同就是市場力變大了以後將來這個Uber Eats提價的能力還有對他的利害關係人談判力量的能力這個都會再考量我這樣講這兩個國際外送平台龍頭他已經有很大的技術跟科技的優勢就本來市場力量其實就很大了現在就很大了\n239324\t240687\t美單抽取商品價格的百分之多少 有掌握嗎?\n253336\t275675\t外送費大概30到40或是28到38不等要看這個餐廳的結構跟他的客戶數大概所以28到40都可能吧 對不對那這比例是非常高的囉其實對於一般商家來講負擔是很重的吧 對不對他已經有很大的價格優勢那如果他把抽成拉得更高的話\n276556\t300731\t那麼對於苦心經營的餐廳或小失業者那更是更大的一個威脅我舉個例子 主委假設你開一家小餐廳除非你不打算接外賣的訂單那一旦他條件開的不管是28 30 40甚至45他開的這個價格這個所謂的費率高到你無法承受的地步的話那你怎麼辦\n302435\t312323\t你跟他根本沒有任何可以抗衡的力量對不對這是為什麼外界非常擔心這個合併案會對業者產生影響同時如果成本提高可能會轉嫁給誰\n314827\t314847\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"請羅智強委員諮詢有請主委請你主委\n委員好主委好這個外送平台Uber Eats說要用307億元收購第一大的業者Full Panda那目前這兩家是台灣外送平台產業當中最大的兩家嘛對不對那合併之後市佔率大概是台灣整體外送市場的百分之多少\n市場的結構會改變\n那已經超過公平會認定的單一獨佔廠商的標準了嘛對不對遠遠超過啦 對不對所以未來我覺得公平會在審議要不要許可合併的時候真的要非常審慎去考慮\n那除了說市場秩序公平競爭也要去思考今天對國內相關的業者消費者乃至於外送這個勞工的一個權益的影響我覺得公平會都要審慎的思考要麻煩我們的李主委那麼實際上剛剛我們主委已經講兩大龍頭業者合併後的市佔率是超過八成也已經超過了公平法對於獨佔者的規定\n那麼對於相關同業者就可能會產生不公平競爭的疑慮那麼我們就以過去公平會處理的案例來看看說目前這個申請案就是還沒進到公平會對不對\n已經到公平位但是文件還沒有齊備我們沒有正式受理還沒正式受理文件未齊備我想以過去的一個狀況來問問主委那您對於這個Uber Eats跟Full Panda的一個這個結合那麼合併的這個事情你們的態度看法是什麼過去啊國內的KTV有兩大龍頭是錢貴跟好樂迪嘛對不對是那這兩家的合計市佔率是大概是多少\n有超過5成因為各縣市不一樣我看的資料是達到7成啦他們申請也非常合併非常多次嘛那公平會準了嗎沒有準理由是什麼我們整個評估經濟利益跟縣市競爭的不利益那當時個別這個不準的理由可能要再進一步\n我看了一下資料 除了你剛剛講的以外簡單講就合併之後的市場力量太大了啦然後呢 可能對於會減少對上游唱片發行業支付版權的費用也可能會同時提高下游KTV消費者唱歌的費用因為他們會居於很大的一個價格的一個談判競爭優勢嘛那既然這個錢櫃跟好樂迪會有這個問題請問Uber Eats跟Food Panda會不會也有同樣的問題\n這是共同就是市場力變大了以後將來這個Uber Eats提價的能力還有對他的利害關係人談判力量的能力這個都會再考量我這樣講這兩個國際外送平台龍頭他已經有很大的技術跟科技的優勢就本來市場力量其實就很大了現在就很大了\n美單抽取商品價格的百分之多少 有掌握嗎?\n外送費大概30到40或是28到38不等要看這個餐廳的結構跟他的客戶數大概所以28到40都可能吧 對不對那這比例是非常高的囉其實對於一般商家來講負擔是很重的吧 對不對他已經有很大的價格優勢那如果他把抽成拉得更高的話\n那麼對於苦心經營的餐廳或小失業者那更是更大的一個威脅我舉個例子 主委假設你開一家小餐廳除非你不打算接外賣的訂單那一旦他條件開的不管是28 30 40甚至45他開的這個價格這個所謂的費率高到你無法承受的地步的話那你怎麼辦\n你跟他根本沒有任何可以抗衡的力量對不對這是為什麼外界非常擔心這個合併案會對業者產生影響同時如果成本提高可能會轉嫁給誰\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.810\n請羅智強委員諮詢有請主委請你主委\n\n00:16.360 --> 00:41.267\n委員好主委好這個外送平台UberEats說要用307億元收購第一大的業者FullPanda那目前這兩家是台灣外送平台產業當中最大的兩家嘛對不對那合併之後市佔率大概是台灣整體外送市場的百分之多少\n\n00:43.866 --> 00:44.187\n市場的結構會改變\n\n01:04.301 --> 01:18.330\n那已經超過公平會認定的單一獨佔廠商的標準了嘛對不對遠遠超過啦對不對所以未來我覺得公平會在審議要不要許可合併的時候真的要非常審慎去考慮\n\n01:19.310 --> 01:47.073\n那除了說市場秩序公平競爭也要去思考今天對國內相關的業者消費者乃至於外送這個勞工的一個權益的影響我覺得公平會都要審慎的思考要麻煩我們的李主委那麼實際上剛剛我們主委已經講兩大龍頭業者合併後的市佔率是超過八成也已經超過了公平法對於獨佔者的規定\n\n01:48.214 --> 02:02.623\n那麼對於相關同業者就可能會產生不公平競爭的疑慮那麼我們就以過去公平會處理的案例來看看說目前這個申請案就是還沒進到公平會對不對\n\n02:05.812 --> 02:34.700\n已經到公平位但是文件還沒有齊備我們沒有正式受理還沒正式受理文件未齊備我想以過去的一個狀況來問問主委那您對於這個UberEats跟FullPanda的一個這個結合那麼合併的這個事情你們的態度看法是什麼過去啊國內的KTV有兩大龍頭是錢貴跟好樂迪嘛對不對是那這兩家的合計市佔率是大概是多少\n\n02:36.428 --> 02:50.718\n有超過5成因為各縣市不一樣我看的資料是達到7成啦他們申請也非常合併非常多次嘛那公平會準了嗎沒有準理由是什麼我們整個評估經濟利益跟縣市競爭的不利益那當時個別這個不準的理由可能要再進一步\n\n03:01.089 --> 03:30.187\n我看了一下資料除了你剛剛講的以外簡單講就合併之後的市場力量太大了啦然後呢可能對於會減少對上游唱片發行業支付版權的費用也可能會同時提高下游KTV消費者唱歌的費用因為他們會居於很大的一個價格的一個談判競爭優勢嘛那既然這個錢櫃跟好樂迪會有這個問題請問UberEats跟FoodPanda會不會也有同樣的問題\n\n03:34.581 --> 03:58.623\n這是共同就是市場力變大了以後將來這個UberEats提價的能力還有對他的利害關係人談判力量的能力這個都會再考量我這樣講這兩個國際外送平台龍頭他已經有很大的技術跟科技的優勢就本來市場力量其實就很大了現在就很大了\n\n03:59.324 --> 04:00.687\n美單抽取商品價格的百分之多少有掌握嗎?\n\n04:13.336 --> 04:35.675\n外送費大概30到40或是28到38不等要看這個餐廳的結構跟他的客戶數大概所以28到40都可能吧對不對那這比例是非常高的囉其實對於一般商家來講負擔是很重的吧對不對他已經有很大的價格優勢那如果他把抽成拉得更高的話\n\n04:36.556 --> 05:00.731\n那麼對於苦心經營的餐廳或小失業者那更是更大的一個威脅我舉個例子主委假設你開一家小餐廳除非你不打算接外賣的訂單那一旦他條件開的不管是283040甚至45他開的這個價格這個所謂的費率高到你無法承受的地步的話那你怎麼辦\n\n05:02.435 --> 05:12.323\n你跟他根本沒有任何可以抗衡的力量對不對這是為什麼外界非常擔心這個合併案會對業者產生影響同時如果成本提高可能會轉嫁給誰\n\n05:14.827 --> 05:14.847\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.81,"text":"請羅智強委員諮詢有請主委請你主委"},{"start":16.36,"end":41.267,"text":"委員好主委好這個外送平台Uber Eats說要用307億元收購第一大的業者Full 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Panda會不會也有同樣的問題"},{"start":214.581,"end":238.623,"text":"這是共同就是市場力變大了以後將來這個Uber Eats提價的能力還有對他的利害關係人談判力量的能力這個都會再考量我這樣講這兩個國際外送平台龍頭他已經有很大的技術跟科技的優勢就本來市場力量其實就很大了現在就很大了"},{"start":239.324,"end":240.687,"text":"美單抽取商品價格的百分之多少 有掌握嗎?"},{"start":253.336,"end":275.675,"text":"外送費大概30到40或是28到38不等要看這個餐廳的結構跟他的客戶數大概所以28到40都可能吧 對不對那這比例是非常高的囉其實對於一般商家來講負擔是很重的吧 對不對他已經有很大的價格優勢那如果他把抽成拉得更高的話"},{"start":276.556,"end":300.731,"text":"那麼對於苦心經營的餐廳或小失業者那更是更大的一個威脅我舉個例子 主委假設你開一家小餐廳除非你不打算接外賣的訂單那一旦他條件開的不管是28 30 40甚至45他開的這個價格這個所謂的費率高到你無法承受的地步的話那你怎麼辦"},{"start":302.435,"end":312.323,"text":"你跟他根本沒有任何可以抗衡的力量對不對這是為什麼外界非常擔心這個合併案會對業者產生影響同時如果成本提高可能會轉嫁給誰"},{"start":314.827,"end":314.847,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:48:44 - 11:54:29","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154996,"gazette":{"lineno":868,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（11時48分）有請主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：主委好。外送平臺Uber Eats說要用307億元收購第一大的業者foodpanda，目前這兩家是臺灣外送平臺產業當中最大的兩家，對不對？合併之後，市占率大概是臺灣整體外送市場的百分之多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：大概八成以上。"],["羅委員智強：八成以上嘛！所以換言之，它必然會運用它非常龐大的獨占力量，對上下游業者進行影響嘛！這個應該顯而易見啦！主委，你覺得呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：市場的結構會改變。"],["羅委員智強：好，已經超過公平會認定的單一獨占廠商的標準了嘛！遠遠超過啦！對不對？所以未來公平會審議要不要許可合併案的時候，真的要非常審慎去考慮，除了市場秩序、公平競爭，也要去思考對國內相關的業者、消費者，乃至於外送勞工權益的影響，我覺得公平會都要審慎地思考，要麻煩李主委。","事實上剛剛主委已經講了，兩大龍頭業者合併後的市占率超過八成，也已經超過了公平法對獨占者的規定，對於相關同業者，可能會有產生不公平競爭的疑慮。我們就以過去公平會處理的案例來看看，目前這個申請案，還沒有進到公平會，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是已經送到公平會，但是文件還沒有齊備，我們沒有正式受理。"],["羅委員智強：還沒有正式受理，文件未齊備嘛！我想以過去的狀況來問問主委，您對於Uber Eats跟foodpanda的結合、合併一事，你們的態度、看法是什麼？過去國內KTV有兩大龍頭是錢櫃跟好樂迪，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["羅委員智強：這兩家合計市占率大概是多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：超過五成，但各縣市不一樣。"],["羅委員智強：我看的資料是達到七成啦！他們申請合併也非常多次，公平會准了嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有准。"],["羅委員智強：都沒准，理由是什麼？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們整個評估經濟利益跟限制競爭的不利益，當時個別不准的理由可能要再進一步……"],["羅委員智強：我看了一下資料，除了你剛剛講的以外，簡單講就是合併之後的市場力量太大了啦！可能會減少對上游唱片發行業支付版權的費用，也可能會同時提高下游KTV消費者唱歌的費用。因為他們會基於一個很大的價格談判競爭優勢。既然錢櫃跟好樂迪會有這個問題，請問Uber Eats跟foodpanda會不會也有同樣的問題？"],["李主任委員鎂：他們有同樣要考慮的因素，這是共同的，也就是市場力變大了以後，將來Uber Eats提價的能力還有對它利害關係人談判力量的能力都會再考量。"],["羅委員智強：我這樣講好了，這兩個國際外送平台龍頭已經有很大的技術跟科技的優勢，本來的市場力量就很大了，現在就很大了，可以來決定上下游相關的費率。它合併之後，其力量當然就更大了，比方說現在對於商家，每單大概抽取商品價格的百分之多少，有掌握嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：就我們瞭解，外送費大概占30%到40%，或是28%到38%不等，要看這個餐廳的結構跟客戶數。"],["羅委員智強：所以大概28%到40%都可能嘛！對不對？這個比例是非常高的，其實對於一般商家來講，負擔是很重的，對不對？它已經有很大的價格優勢了。如果它把抽成拉得更高的話，對於苦心經營的餐廳或小吃業者就是更大的威脅了。","我舉個例子，假設主委開一家小餐廳，除非不打算接外賣的訂單，不管是28%、30%、40%，甚至是45%，一旦它開的費率高到你無法承受的地步的話，你怎麼辦？你跟它根本沒有任何可以抗衡的力量，對不對？這就是為什麼外界非常擔心，這個合併案會對業者產生影響。同時如果成本提高，可能會把價格轉嫁給誰？"],["李主任委員鎂：消費者。"],["羅委員智強：消費者嘛！更何況，我剛剛講的，這是一模一樣的情況，現在的外送員還可以兩家平台比價，對不對？你一旦變成一家之後，實質上他也失去了跟外送平台要求合理待遇的空間，所以真的拜託主委，聽聽消費者的心聲、聽聽小商家的心聲，聽聽外送員的心聲，好好想想這個合併案將來要處理的時候該怎麼辦。謝謝。"],["主席：請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","陳超明","洪孟楷","蔡易餘","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00001"}}}