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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 398.703, \"end\": 398.723, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 403.706, \"end\": 403.786, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 403.786, \"end\": 403.866, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 403.866, \"end\": 404.067, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 404.067, \"end\": 404.267, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 404.267, \"end\": 404.467, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 404.467, \"end\": 405.188, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 405.188, \"end\": 405.548, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 405.548, \"end\": 405.769, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 405.769, \"end\": 405.849, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 405.849, \"end\": 406.009, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 406.009, \"end\": 406.489, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 406.489, \"end\": 406.65, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 406.65, \"end\": 406.85, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 406.85, \"end\": 407.11, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 407.11, \"end\": 407.411, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 407.411, \"end\": 407.591, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 407.591, \"end\": 407.771, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 407.771, \"end\": 408.191, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 408.191, \"end\": 408.612, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 408.612, \"end\": 408.792, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 408.792, \"end\": 409.193, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 409.193, \"end\": 409.393, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 409.393, \"end\": 409.613, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 409.613, \"end\": 409.773, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 409.773, \"end\": 409.994, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 409.994, \"end\": 410.214, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 410.214, \"end\": 410.895, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 410.895, \"end\": 411.115, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 411.115, \"end\": 411.295, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 411.295, \"end\": 411.475, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 411.475, \"end\": 411.756, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 411.756, \"end\": 412.156, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 412.156, \"end\": 412.376, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 412.376, \"end\": 412.577, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 412.577, \"end\": 412.957, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 412.957, \"end\": 413.358, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 413.358, \"end\": 413.378, \"score\": 0.07}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,227 --> 00:00:05,731\n謝謝主席我們也一樣請部長好請部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,116 --> 00:00:42,667\n修緣你好部長好那我想這一次的都市更新條例第六十五條修正草案那我想我們都是很支持的尤其對於我們雙北來說非常的重要因為佔了佔比快70個百分點都是有關的那我們在這個台北市來說30年的老屋也非常的多那所以呢加速危老是一個共識不過剛才王鴻薇委員也有提到的我們在這個整個危老的條例當中他是按照時程去遞減\n\n3\n00:00:43,507 --> 00:00:45,128\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n4\n00:01:00,154 --> 00:01:00,614\n第一案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n5\n00:01:21,207 --> 00:01:42,348\n多的容積獎勵我懂我懂那我的意思說假設他是在我們這個推出來的時候可能第六年到第八年那按照這個落日條款來說他取得的容積獎勵就比較少那對於這些民眾來講那如果未來我們提出了新的政策那我們的給的容積獎勵又比較高那對於這幾年他們去進行都更的人會不會有不公平的問題\n\n6\n00:01:43,108 --> 00:02:01,334\n委員您在預測的狀況有可能會發生但是目前我們的狀況為什麼我們都更條例修正那麼多次就是希望能夠鼓勵越多現存的危老都更趕快進行危老跟都更的重建我希望你能夠把這個部分也考量進去之後來做配套措施\n\n7\n00:02:01,994 --> 00:02:12,859\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n\n8\n00:02:31,667 --> 00:02:44,095\n否則因為它被限制不能開發之後原本在這一個山坡地上就已經有的建物它不能去做任何改建的情況經過這麼多年了都變成越來越像廢棄的房屋反而更加的危險\n\n9\n00:02:45,502 --> 00:03:04,652\n感謝委員的詢問,的確在過去在新北,其實大概這類的案子,還有部分的台北市,都有這類的案子。其實過去的區域計畫裡面是允許地方政府,你自己再重新檢討,那這些過去的老餅見的土地,但是我想因為這幾年還是有一些山坡地自災的議題,\n\n10\n00:03:05,672 --> 00:03:07,953\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n11\n00:03:28,217 --> 00:03:42,329\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n\n12\n00:03:55,666 --> 00:04:17,259\n是的,謝謝委員所以當時提到所謂的彈藥放宮廟您認為這是一個假消息是一個認知作戰是嗎對,在我上任之後到目前為止我並沒有聽到這樣子的說法所以我認為這是一個認知作戰那您有去教學上任之前的時候就是說因為不是從你開始嗎內政部它是一個延續下來的嘛\n\n13\n00:04:18,140 --> 00:04:27,609\n那請問一下就是說你整個內政部的過程內政部的上上下下的銜接都是假消息都是認知作戰嗎?歷任的內政部長從來沒有提到說宮廟需要放軍來我們下一張看一下這個是陸軍當然啦內政部可能你們不知道\n\n14\n00:04:37,037 --> 00:04:57,100\n但是陸軍第四區支援指揮部彈藥左營彈藥分庫發函在112年11月30號的時候關於彈藥的部分你可以看他正本發給誰某某股份有限公司某某府某某宮所以宮廟跟社區中心還有活動中心在\n\n15\n00:04:58,401 --> 00:05:19,046\n高雄在國防部的政策當然不是你內政部我知道但是當時就已經有所謂的彈藥存在宮廟裏面彈藥存在宮廟裏面不會嗎沒有沒有你看那你自己看上面的燈籃嘛這寫的是支援協定書我想如果用英文來講應該就是MOU嘛他寫的是什麼他寫的MOU嘛他說呢MOU可簽可不簽\n\n16\n00:05:20,566 --> 00:05:35,124\n他說規劃於各作戰區選定彈藥的屯點縮減戰時彈藥的運補時序滿足彈藥的補充能量在第一點他發函的這個希望能夠協定書的部分包含宮廟沒錯吧\n\n17\n00:05:37,915 --> 00:05:56,728\n我哪裡講錯了沒有錯但因為他不是內政部他是國防部這邊陸軍去發的所以您可能不知道這個部分我不責怪但是我必須要說因為在這些民防或者是真的在戰時的時候內政部跟國防部大家是在協力的所以\n\n18\n00:05:57,088 --> 00:06:14,172\n像這樣子所謂陸軍指揮部他們在這裡分副長陸軍的陸軍兵工校他們發了這樣子的公文我想內政部也必須要知道必須要了解如果你們認為不妥適的話也必須要橫向的向國防部溝通請問部長能夠說得到嗎好謝謝委員的提點未來有這樣狀況的話我們會跟國防部來溝通\n\n19\n00:06:19,773 --> 00:06:38,723\n所以我要再一次強調喔這並不是一個假消息也不是一個認知作戰只是可能不是在你內政部發生你不能因為不是在你內政部發生就說這都是假消息我今天直接提供公文給你看確實曾經有人也就是國防部想要把宮廟作為彈藥的儲存點有這樣的公文是存在的是我們政府發放的\n\n20\n00:06:43,706 --> 00:06:53,378\n所以我希望未來部長您不要再說這是假消息跟認知作戰了不在內政部不等於不存在在我們的國家政府體系好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4227\t5731\t謝謝主席我們也一樣請部長好請部長\n14116\t42667\t修緣你好部長好那我想這一次的都市更新條例第六十五條修正草案那我想我們都是很支持的尤其對於我們雙北來說非常的重要因為佔了佔比快70個百分點都是有關的那我們在這個台北市來說30年的老屋也非常的多那所以呢加速危老是一個共識不過剛才王鴻薇委員也有提到的我們在這個整個危老的條例當中他是按照時程去遞減\n43507\t45128\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n60154\t60614\t第一案如未經各黨團簽署\n81207\t102348\t多的容積獎勵我懂我懂那我的意思說假設他是在我們這個推出來的時候可能第六年到第八年那按照這個落日條款來說他取得的容積獎勵就比較少那對於這些民眾來講那如果未來我們提出了新的政策那我們的給的容積獎勵又比較高那對於這幾年他們去進行都更的人會不會有不公平的問題\n103108\t121334\t委員您在預測的狀況有可能會發生但是目前我們的狀況為什麼我們都更條例修正那麼多次就是希望能夠鼓勵越多現存的危老都更趕快進行危老跟都更的重建我希望你能夠把這個部分也考量進去之後來做配套措施\n121994\t132859\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n151667\t164095\t否則因為它被限制不能開發之後原本在這一個山坡地上就已經有的建物它不能去做任何改建的情況經過這麼多年了都變成越來越像廢棄的房屋反而更加的危險\n165502\t184652\t感謝委員的詢問,的確在過去在新北,其實大概這類的案子,還有部分的台北市,都有這類的案子。其實過去的區域計畫裡面是允許地方政府,你自己再重新檢討,那這些過去的老餅見的土地,但是我想因為這幾年還是有一些山坡地自災的議題,\n185672\t187953\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n208217\t222329\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n235666\t257259\t是的,謝謝委員所以當時提到所謂的彈藥放宮廟您認為這是一個假消息是一個認知作戰是嗎對,在我上任之後到目前為止我並沒有聽到這樣子的說法所以我認為這是一個認知作戰那您有去教學上任之前的時候就是說因為不是從你開始嗎內政部它是一個延續下來的嘛\n258140\t267609\t那請問一下就是說你整個內政部的過程內政部的上上下下的銜接都是假消息都是認知作戰嗎?歷任的內政部長從來沒有提到說宮廟需要放軍來我們下一張看一下這個是陸軍當然啦內政部可能你們不知道\n277037\t297100\t但是陸軍第四區支援指揮部彈藥左營彈藥分庫發函在112年11月30號的時候關於彈藥的部分你可以看他正本發給誰某某股份有限公司某某府某某宮所以宮廟跟社區中心還有活動中心在\n298401\t319046\t高雄在國防部的政策當然不是你內政部我知道但是當時就已經有所謂的彈藥存在宮廟裏面彈藥存在宮廟裏面不會嗎沒有沒有你看那你自己看上面的燈籃嘛這寫的是支援協定書我想如果用英文來講應該就是MOU嘛他寫的是什麼他寫的MOU嘛他說呢MOU可簽可不簽\n320566\t335124\t他說規劃於各作戰區選定彈藥的屯點縮減戰時彈藥的運補時序滿足彈藥的補充能量在第一點他發函的這個希望能夠協定書的部分包含宮廟沒錯吧\n337915\t356728\t我哪裡講錯了沒有錯但因為他不是內政部他是國防部這邊陸軍去發的所以您可能不知道這個部分我不責怪但是我必須要說因為在這些民防或者是真的在戰時的時候內政部跟國防部大家是在協力的所以\n357088\t374172\t像這樣子所謂陸軍指揮部他們在這裡分副長陸軍的陸軍兵工校他們發了這樣子的公文我想內政部也必須要知道必須要了解如果你們認為不妥適的話也必須要橫向的向國防部溝通請問部長能夠說得到嗎好謝謝委員的提點未來有這樣狀況的話我們會跟國防部來溝通\n379773\t398723\t所以我要再一次強調喔這並不是一個假消息也不是一個認知作戰只是可能不是在你內政部發生你不能因為不是在你內政部發生就說這都是假消息我今天直接提供公文給你看確實曾經有人也就是國防部想要把宮廟作為彈藥的儲存點有這樣的公文是存在的是我們政府發放的\n403706\t413378\t所以我希望未來部長您不要再說這是假消息跟認知作戰了不在內政部不等於不存在在我們的國家政府體系好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們也一樣請部長好請部長\n修緣你好部長好那我想這一次的都市更新條例第六十五條修正草案那我想我們都是很支持的尤其對於我們雙北來說非常的重要因為佔了佔比快70個百分點都是有關的那我們在這個台北市來說30年的老屋也非常的多那所以呢加速危老是一個共識不過剛才王鴻薇委員也有提到的我們在這個整個危老的條例當中他是按照時程去遞減\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n第一案如未經各黨團簽署\n多的容積獎勵我懂我懂那我的意思說假設他是在我們這個推出來的時候可能第六年到第八年那按照這個落日條款來說他取得的容積獎勵就比較少那對於這些民眾來講那如果未來我們提出了新的政策那我們的給的容積獎勵又比較高那對於這幾年他們去進行都更的人會不會有不公平的問題\n委員您在預測的狀況有可能會發生但是目前我們的狀況為什麼我們都更條例修正那麼多次就是希望能夠鼓勵越多現存的危老都更趕快進行危老跟都更的重建我希望你能夠把這個部分也考量進去之後來做配套措施\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n否則因為它被限制不能開發之後原本在這一個山坡地上就已經有的建物它不能去做任何改建的情況經過這麼多年了都變成越來越像廢棄的房屋反而更加的危險\n感謝委員的詢問,的確在過去在新北,其實大概這類的案子,還有部分的台北市,都有這類的案子。其實過去的區域計畫裡面是允許地方政府,你自己再重新檢討,那這些過去的老餅見的土地,但是我想因為這幾年還是有一些山坡地自災的議題,\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n是的,謝謝委員所以當時提到所謂的彈藥放宮廟您認為這是一個假消息是一個認知作戰是嗎對,在我上任之後到目前為止我並沒有聽到這樣子的說法所以我認為這是一個認知作戰那您有去教學上任之前的時候就是說因為不是從你開始嗎內政部它是一個延續下來的嘛\n那請問一下就是說你整個內政部的過程內政部的上上下下的銜接都是假消息都是認知作戰嗎?歷任的內政部長從來沒有提到說宮廟需要放軍來我們下一張看一下這個是陸軍當然啦內政部可能你們不知道\n但是陸軍第四區支援指揮部彈藥左營彈藥分庫發函在112年11月30號的時候關於彈藥的部分你可以看他正本發給誰某某股份有限公司某某府某某宮所以宮廟跟社區中心還有活動中心在\n高雄在國防部的政策當然不是你內政部我知道但是當時就已經有所謂的彈藥存在宮廟裏面彈藥存在宮廟裏面不會嗎沒有沒有你看那你自己看上面的燈籃嘛這寫的是支援協定書我想如果用英文來講應該就是MOU嘛他寫的是什麼他寫的MOU嘛他說呢MOU可簽可不簽\n他說規劃於各作戰區選定彈藥的屯點縮減戰時彈藥的運補時序滿足彈藥的補充能量在第一點他發函的這個希望能夠協定書的部分包含宮廟沒錯吧\n我哪裡講錯了沒有錯但因為他不是內政部他是國防部這邊陸軍去發的所以您可能不知道這個部分我不責怪但是我必須要說因為在這些民防或者是真的在戰時的時候內政部跟國防部大家是在協力的所以\n像這樣子所謂陸軍指揮部他們在這裡分副長陸軍的陸軍兵工校他們發了這樣子的公文我想內政部也必須要知道必須要了解如果你們認為不妥適的話也必須要橫向的向國防部溝通請問部長能夠說得到嗎好謝謝委員的提點未來有這樣狀況的話我們會跟國防部來溝通\n所以我要再一次強調喔這並不是一個假消息也不是一個認知作戰只是可能不是在你內政部發生你不能因為不是在你內政部發生就說這都是假消息我今天直接提供公文給你看確實曾經有人也就是國防部想要把宮廟作為彈藥的儲存點有這樣的公文是存在的是我們政府發放的\n所以我希望未來部長您不要再說這是假消息跟認知作戰了不在內政部不等於不存在在我們的國家政府體系好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.227 --> 00:05.731\n謝謝主席我們也一樣請部長好請部長\n\n00:14.116 --> 00:42.667\n修緣你好部長好那我想這一次的都市更新條例第六十五條修正草案那我想我們都是很支持的尤其對於我們雙北來說非常的重要因為佔了佔比快70個百分點都是有關的那我們在這個台北市來說30年的老屋也非常的多那所以呢加速危老是一個共識不過剛才王鴻薇委員也有提到的我們在這個整個危老的條例當中他是按照時程去遞減\n\n00:43.507 --> 00:45.128\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n01:00.154 --> 01:00.614\n第一案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n01:21.207 --> 01:42.348\n多的容積獎勵我懂我懂那我的意思說假設他是在我們這個推出來的時候可能第六年到第八年那按照這個落日條款來說他取得的容積獎勵就比較少那對於這些民眾來講那如果未來我們提出了新的政策那我們的給的容積獎勵又比較高那對於這幾年他們去進行都更的人會不會有不公平的問題\n\n01:43.108 --> 02:01.334\n委員您在預測的狀況有可能會發生但是目前我們的狀況為什麼我們都更條例修正那麼多次就是希望能夠鼓勵越多現存的危老都更趕快進行危老跟都更的重建我希望你能夠把這個部分也考量進去之後來做配套措施\n\n02:01.994 --> 02:12.859\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n\n02:31.667 --> 02:44.095\n否則因為它被限制不能開發之後原本在這一個山坡地上就已經有的建物它不能去做任何改建的情況經過這麼多年了都變成越來越像廢棄的房屋反而更加的危險\n\n02:45.502 --> 03:04.652\n感謝委員的詢問,的確在過去在新北,其實大概這類的案子,還有部分的台北市,都有這類的案子。其實過去的區域計畫裡面是允許地方政府,你自己再重新檢討,那這些過去的老餅見的土地,但是我想因為這幾年還是有一些山坡地自災的議題,\n\n03:05.672 --> 03:07.953\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n03:28.217 --> 03:42.329\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n\n03:55.666 --> 04:17.259\n是的,謝謝委員所以當時提到所謂的彈藥放宮廟您認為這是一個假消息是一個認知作戰是嗎對,在我上任之後到目前為止我並沒有聽到這樣子的說法所以我認為這是一個認知作戰那您有去教學上任之前的時候就是說因為不是從你開始嗎內政部它是一個延續下來的嘛\n\n04:18.140 --> 04:27.609\n那請問一下就是說你整個內政部的過程內政部的上上下下的銜接都是假消息都是認知作戰嗎?歷任的內政部長從來沒有提到說宮廟需要放軍來我們下一張看一下這個是陸軍當然啦內政部可能你們不知道\n\n04:37.037 --> 04:57.100\n但是陸軍第四區支援指揮部彈藥左營彈藥分庫發函在112年11月30號的時候關於彈藥的部分你可以看他正本發給誰某某股份有限公司某某府某某宮所以宮廟跟社區中心還有活動中心在\n\n04:58.401 --> 05:19.046\n高雄在國防部的政策當然不是你內政部我知道但是當時就已經有所謂的彈藥存在宮廟裏面彈藥存在宮廟裏面不會嗎沒有沒有你看那你自己看上面的燈籃嘛這寫的是支援協定書我想如果用英文來講應該就是MOU嘛他寫的是什麼他寫的MOU嘛他說呢MOU可簽可不簽\n\n05:20.566 --> 05:35.124\n他說規劃於各作戰區選定彈藥的屯點縮減戰時彈藥的運補時序滿足彈藥的補充能量在第一點他發函的這個希望能夠協定書的部分包含宮廟沒錯吧\n\n05:37.915 --> 05:56.728\n我哪裡講錯了沒有錯但因為他不是內政部他是國防部這邊陸軍去發的所以您可能不知道這個部分我不責怪但是我必須要說因為在這些民防或者是真的在戰時的時候內政部跟國防部大家是在協力的所以\n\n05:57.088 --> 06:14.172\n像這樣子所謂陸軍指揮部他們在這裡分副長陸軍的陸軍兵工校他們發了這樣子的公文我想內政部也必須要知道必須要了解如果你們認為不妥適的話也必須要橫向的向國防部溝通請問部長能夠說得到嗎好謝謝委員的提點未來有這樣狀況的話我們會跟國防部來溝通\n\n06:19.773 --> 06:38.723\n所以我要再一次強調喔這並不是一個假消息也不是一個認知作戰只是可能不是在你內政部發生你不能因為不是在你內政部發生就說這都是假消息我今天直接提供公文給你看確實曾經有人也就是國防部想要把宮廟作為彈藥的儲存點有這樣的公文是存在的是我們政府發放的\n\n06:43.706 --> 06:53.378\n所以我希望未來部長您不要再說這是假消息跟認知作戰了不在內政部不等於不存在在我們的國家政府體系好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.227,"end":5.731,"text":"謝謝主席我們也一樣請部長好請部長"},{"start":14.116,"end":42.667,"text":"修緣你好部長好那我想這一次的都市更新條例第六十五條修正草案那我想我們都是很支持的尤其對於我們雙北來說非常的重要因為佔了佔比快70個百分點都是有關的那我們在這個台北市來說30年的老屋也非常的多那所以呢加速危老是一個共識不過剛才王鴻薇委員也有提到的我們在這個整個危老的條例當中他是按照時程去遞減"},{"start":43.507,"end":45.128,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":60.154,"end":60.614,"text":"第一案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":81.207,"end":102.348,"text":"多的容積獎勵我懂我懂那我的意思說假設他是在我們這個推出來的時候可能第六年到第八年那按照這個落日條款來說他取得的容積獎勵就比較少那對於這些民眾來講那如果未來我們提出了新的政策那我們的給的容積獎勵又比較高那對於這幾年他們去進行都更的人會不會有不公平的問題"},{"start":103.108,"end":121.334,"text":"委員您在預測的狀況有可能會發生但是目前我們的狀況為什麼我們都更條例修正那麼多次就是希望能夠鼓勵越多現存的危老都更趕快進行危老跟都更的重建我希望你能夠把這個部分也考量進去之後來做配套措施"},{"start":121.994,"end":132.859,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團"},{"start":151.667,"end":164.095,"text":"否則因為它被限制不能開發之後原本在這一個山坡地上就已經有的建物它不能去做任何改建的情況經過這麼多年了都變成越來越像廢棄的房屋反而更加的危險"},{"start":165.502,"end":184.652,"text":"感謝委員的詢問,的確在過去在新北,其實大概這類的案子,還有部分的台北市,都有這類的案子。其實過去的區域計畫裡面是允許地方政府,你自己再重新檢討,那這些過去的老餅見的土地,但是我想因為這幾年還是有一些山坡地自災的議題,"},{"start":185.672,"end":187.953,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":208.217,"end":222.329,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團"},{"start":235.666,"end":257.259,"text":"是的,謝謝委員所以當時提到所謂的彈藥放宮廟您認為這是一個假消息是一個認知作戰是嗎對,在我上任之後到目前為止我並沒有聽到這樣子的說法所以我認為這是一個認知作戰那您有去教學上任之前的時候就是說因為不是從你開始嗎內政部它是一個延續下來的嘛"},{"start":258.14,"end":267.609,"text":"那請問一下就是說你整個內政部的過程內政部的上上下下的銜接都是假消息都是認知作戰嗎?歷任的內政部長從來沒有提到說宮廟需要放軍來我們下一張看一下這個是陸軍當然啦內政部可能你們不知道"},{"start":277.037,"end":297.1,"text":"但是陸軍第四區支援指揮部彈藥左營彈藥分庫發函在112年11月30號的時候關於彈藥的部分你可以看他正本發給誰某某股份有限公司某某府某某宮所以宮廟跟社區中心還有活動中心在"},{"start":298.401,"end":319.046,"text":"高雄在國防部的政策當然不是你內政部我知道但是當時就已經有所謂的彈藥存在宮廟裏面彈藥存在宮廟裏面不會嗎沒有沒有你看那你自己看上面的燈籃嘛這寫的是支援協定書我想如果用英文來講應該就是MOU嘛他寫的是什麼他寫的MOU嘛他說呢MOU可簽可不簽"},{"start":320.566,"end":335.124,"text":"他說規劃於各作戰區選定彈藥的屯點縮減戰時彈藥的運補時序滿足彈藥的補充能量在第一點他發函的這個希望能夠協定書的部分包含宮廟沒錯吧"},{"start":337.915,"end":356.728,"text":"我哪裡講錯了沒有錯但因為他不是內政部他是國防部這邊陸軍去發的所以您可能不知道這個部分我不責怪但是我必須要說因為在這些民防或者是真的在戰時的時候內政部跟國防部大家是在協力的所以"},{"start":357.088,"end":374.172,"text":"像這樣子所謂陸軍指揮部他們在這裡分副長陸軍的陸軍兵工校他們發了這樣子的公文我想內政部也必須要知道必須要了解如果你們認為不妥適的話也必須要橫向的向國防部溝通請問部長能夠說得到嗎好謝謝委員的提點未來有這樣狀況的話我們會跟國防部來溝通"},{"start":379.773,"end":398.723,"text":"所以我要再一次強調喔這並不是一個假消息也不是一個認知作戰只是可能不是在你內政部發生你不能因為不是在你內政部發生就說這都是假消息我今天直接提供公文給你看確實曾經有人也就是國防部想要把宮廟作為彈藥的儲存點有這樣的公文是存在的是我們政府發放的"},{"start":403.706,"end":413.378,"text":"所以我希望未來部長您不要再說這是假消息跟認知作戰了不在內政部不等於不存在在我們的國家政府體系好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:18:45 - 11:25:42","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","id":154998,"gazette":{"lineno":697,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（11時18分）謝謝主席，我們也一樣請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：徐委員你好。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。我想這一次的都市更新條例第六十五條修正草案，我想我們都是很支持的，尤其對於我們雙北來說非常地重要，因為占了占比快七十個百分點，都是有關的，我們在臺北市來說，30年的老屋也非常多，所以加速危老是一個共識。不過剛才王鴻薇委員也有提到的，我們在整個危老的條例當中，它是按照時程去遞減，如果它遞減到第8年，它是以一個百分點來說的話，那如果我們未來適用新的法規，能夠來加速危老的話，對於遞減下來所碰到時程的這一些民眾，會不會有不公平的問題？或者是說你們希望怎麼解決？"],["劉部長世芳：第一個、我們在修過危老都更條例之後，會用比較透明的方式把這個訊息儘量釋放給有需求危老都更的民眾知道，讓他們知道，既然他們的房子已經要都更或是必須要做危老重建，就表示越快越好……"],["徐委員巧芯：我的問題是說……"],["劉部長世芳：所以我們有比較多的容積獎勵。"],["徐委員巧芯：我懂、我懂，我的意思是，假設他們可能是在我們推出來的第6年到第8年，按照這個落日條款來說，他們取得的容積獎勵就比較少，對於這一些民眾來講，如果未來我們提出了新的政策，我們給的容積獎勵又比較高，對於這幾年進行都更的人來說，會不會有不公平的問題？"],["劉部長世芳：委員您預測的狀況有可能會發生，但是目前的狀況，為什麼我們都更條例修正那麼多次？就是希望能夠鼓勵越多現存的危老都更趕快進行危老跟都更的重建。"],["徐委員巧芯：我懂，我們都支持，我希望你們能夠把這個部分也考量進去，之後來做配套措施。"],["劉部長世芳：我們會考慮進來，謝謝。"],["徐委員巧芯：另外，在921的時候，不少這個……不是921，對不起，是在林肯大郡的時候，因為林肯大郡的關係，國土署在山坡地做了很多的限制，經過這麼多年之後，我們發現這個限制其實遠超過實際上運作會遇到的情形，如果現在有一些地方是足夠安全的，有沒有可能考慮放寬，或者是讓這些房舍可以改建，否則它被限制不能開發之後，原本在山坡地上就已經有的建物，不能去做任何的改建，經過這麼多年都越來越像廢棄的房屋，反而更加危險。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員的詢問，的確過去在新北還有部分的臺北市都有這類的案子，其實過去的區域計畫是允許地方政府自己重新檢討這些過去老丙建的土地……"],["徐委員巧芯：是。"],["吳署長欣修：但因為這幾年還是有一些山坡地致災的議題，我們曾經都有詢問過地方，大部分都還沒有想要主動再檢討，當然委員關心部分，我們也會再跟地方政府討論看看，有沒有要主動……"],["徐委員巧芯：好，因為我們發現某些山坡地經過這麼多年沒有任何問題跟狀況，但是它原本在上面的房舍老舊不堪，之後反而造成更多危險，這一點我希望我們能夠多注意，也沒有說一定要放寬或什麼的，但是如果有老舊房屋反而造成危險，那我們就要反過來想，要怎麼協助這些居民。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：接下來，我要問一下部長，剛才王鴻薇委員也有問到，您說在全社會防衛韌性委員會裡面，針對宮廟部分是沒有提及的，因為它是點香火，不會放軍火，您是這麼說的嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是的，謝謝委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以當時提到所謂的「彈藥放宮廟」，您認為這是一個假消息、是一個認知作戰，是嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：對，在我上任之後，到目前為止，我並沒有聽到這樣子的說法，所以我認為這是一個認知作戰的訊息。"],["徐委員巧芯：那您有去交接上任之前的時候……因為不是從你開始，內政部是延續下來的，請問一下，整個內政部上上下下的銜接過程都是假消息，都是認知作戰嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：歷任的內政部長從來沒有提到宮廟需要放軍火。"],["徐委員巧芯：來，我們看一下下一張簡報，這個是陸軍，當然內政部可能不知道，但是陸軍第四地區支援指揮部彈藥庫左營彈藥分庫在112年11月30號時發函，關於彈藥，你可以看他正本發給誰？某某股份有限公司、某某府、某某宮，所以宮廟跟社區中心還有活動中心在高雄，在國防部的政策，我知道當然不是你們內政部，但當時就已經有所謂的彈藥存在宮廟裡面……"],["劉部長世芳：彈藥存在宮廟裡面，不會吧？"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有、沒有，你看上面的公函嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：他寫的是支援協定書，我想如果用英文來講應該就是MOU吧！"],["徐委員巧芯：他寫的是什麼？他寫的MOU，他說呢……"],["劉部長世芳：MOU可簽、可不簽。"],["徐委員巧芯：第一點，規劃於各作戰區選定彈藥預屯點，縮減戰時彈藥的運補時序，滿足彈藥的補充能量。他們發函希望能夠簽訂協定書的包含宮廟，沒錯吧？我哪裡講錯了？沒有錯。但因為不是內政部，而是國防部陸軍發的，所以您可能不知道，這部分我不責怪，但是我必須要說，因為這些民防或者真的在戰時的時候，內政部跟國防部是協力的，所以像這樣的陸軍指揮部、陸軍兵工少校分庫長他們發了這樣子的公文，我想內政部也必須要知道、必須要了解，如果你們認為不妥適，也必須要橫向的向國防部溝通，請問部長能夠做得到嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝委員的提點，未來有這樣狀況的話，我們會跟國防部溝通。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我要再一次強調，這並不是一個假消息，也不是一個認知作戰，只是可能不是在內政部發生，你不能因為不是在內政部發生就說這都是假消息，我今天直接提供公文給你看，確實曾經有人，也就是國防部，想要把宮廟作為彈藥的儲存點，這樣的公文是存在的，是我們政府發放的，所以我希望未來部長您不要再說這是假消息跟認知作戰了，不在內政部不等於不存在在我們的國家政府體系，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","游顥委員、游顥委員，游顥委員不在。","請羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}}