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\"end\": 436.52, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 436.52, \"end\": 436.62, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 436.62, \"end\": 436.64, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,104 --> 00:00:19,528\n二十八號,賴總統開了這個全社會防衛任性的委員會\n\n2\n00:00:29,861 --> 00:00:41,929\n一共要培訓40萬可視的民力目標之一就是必要的時候要支援軍事行動但是現在主要的目標是維持社會穩定跟民生運作\n\n3\n00:00:43,127 --> 00:01:02,047\n按照民防法的第一個要務是維持政府的功能跟社會穩定是我們民防法的最大的功能有備而來喔來啦我先問你啦啊顧議員想叫你說的到底有一樣嗎顧議員想說一旦情勢如果嚴峻的時候當然要去支援軍事作戰嘛是的在民防法裡面有這樣子的規範我要跟委員報告一下齁\n\n4\n00:01:04,389 --> 00:01:21,843\n顧立雄他的鎖本是因為全民防衛動員法那我的鎖本呢是在於災害救治法以及民防法還有替代役的管理條例我這三個法律呢都是我們在執行的過程當中我現在問你的是說你們兩個講的東西有一樣嗎?一體的兩面那這樣會不會變成替代役啦、議銷啦、議警銷啦民間團體都要上戰場?還會不會?\n\n5\n00:01:33,895 --> 00:01:56,357\n要看習近平的態度嗎?我想你非常清楚你現在所知道的民防法的部分包括民防人力的訓練或者我們新增叫做民間的防災式的訓練或者是設施的訓練或者是義難的訓練現在都在訓練而且長久以來因為張委員也服貨兵役嘛\n\n6\n00:01:57,957 --> 00:02:14,123\n你現在已經可能過了啦,我是說原來你也是屬於後備軍人,可能是後備軍人,所以現在都在訓練,但是因應大規模的天災,譬如說日本他有南海海潮,他們可以一下子就可以把整個的...我現在問你一個簡單的問題,你的意思是進入什麼狀況下會全部都要上戰場?\n\n7\n00:02:21,365 --> 00:02:22,366\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n8\n00:02:40,776 --> 00:02:41,277\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n9\n00:02:58,980 --> 00:02:59,541\n民眾看起來不贊成這個政策\n\n10\n00:03:15,953 --> 00:03:17,373\n報告委員我們前兩天才報告所以現在要怎麼宣傳我還是跟大家講一下\n\n11\n00:03:35,598 --> 00:03:55,844\n因為我看到在大規模的天災的時候所有的人都投入也不分黨派不分老少所以這個是台灣最重要的我們的一個保全國力的重要的人的規模那既然是這樣的話我們讓他更專業化可以知道說如果發生狀況的時候你要去哪個地方可以做更好的垂直跟很強的聯繫我想這是非常的好的\n\n12\n00:04:01,876 --> 00:04:23,195\n總統講完之後,不想參加的有超過七成,這是台灣的民意嘛。我會向委員報告,這樣子的民調資料呢,我是覺得太衝突。為什麼呢?因為第一個,它沒有經過好好的完整的溝通。就好像說我們在總統公佈這樣子的一個全社會防衛任性之後,然後媒體馬上就有很多不同的聲音。\n\n13\n00:04:24,816 --> 00:04:27,038\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具:「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。」案。\n\n14\n00:04:51,533 --> 00:04:58,669\n來來我們看一下下一張下一張一百一十二年度我去看你們的資料義勇的警察人士的統計七千個外人\n\n15\n00:05:01,277 --> 00:05:26,626\n年齡高達50歲以上然後如果是義勇這個消防人員47到48這個投入到戰場去會不會年紀偏大報告委員我還是一再強調沒有所謂的投入戰場現在義勇警察就是要協助警察在維持社會治安所以他在訓練的時候呢怎麼樣加強治安上面應該有的技巧譬如說現在的技巧跟30年前警察不一樣來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來\n\n16\n00:05:31,027 --> 00:05:39,540\n你講過這個事情嘛他說現在其實他們的任務啊你說外圍圈這個任務40萬的這個名利是要警戒嘛我問你你現在要做什麼訓練他的裝備在哪裡你要給他什麼裝備就是40萬的這個名利\n\n17\n00:05:45,626 --> 00:06:02,163\n你準備做什麼訓練裝備是什麼報告委員這個就不能夠一體試用第一個有的是正規的警察跟消防有的是義消跟消防有的是民防有的甚至是民間團體\n\n18\n00:06:03,504 --> 00:06:06,226\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n19\n00:06:24,861 --> 00:06:49,847\n有嘛齁,你剛才講那些,你剛才不是說每一個都不一樣,那你怎麼訓練?他有功能上面的分組,第一個我們有提到那你能不能依照你所謂的功能的分組,你給他什麼裝備、什麼訓練?好,報告委員,我們有民防訓練,我們有民防訓練、防災室訓練,然後還有那個義男的訓練跟備役義男的訓練在法令以外你剛才講的,非常完備嘛,對不對?我們希望是大家能夠完全一致\n\n20\n00:06:51,687 --> 00:07:16,640\n就說一般民眾聽到要有40萬的名利他們想要很明確知道不是要有40萬的名利現在就有40萬他會不會被納到裡面去然後他要做什麼樣的訓練嘛我的要求很簡單你都有規定了嘛那你就是哪些人可能在哪一個我們有些官方有規定但是有些民間團體是要去跟他們拜託要去拜託好啦你差不多一個禮拜你看要怎麼訓練總比什麼給我啦好不好可以嗎好好謝謝現在是喔\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11104\t19528\t二十八號,賴總統開了這個全社會防衛任性的委員會\n29861\t41929\t一共要培訓40萬可視的民力目標之一就是必要的時候要支援軍事行動但是現在主要的目標是維持社會穩定跟民生運作\n43127\t62047\t按照民防法的第一個要務是維持政府的功能跟社會穩定是我們民防法的最大的功能有備而來喔來啦我先問你啦啊顧議員想叫你說的到底有一樣嗎顧議員想說一旦情勢如果嚴峻的時候當然要去支援軍事作戰嘛是的在民防法裡面有這樣子的規範我要跟委員報告一下齁\n64389\t81843\t顧立雄他的鎖本是因為全民防衛動員法那我的鎖本呢是在於災害救治法以及民防法還有替代役的管理條例我這三個法律呢都是我們在執行的過程當中我現在問你的是說你們兩個講的東西有一樣嗎?一體的兩面那這樣會不會變成替代役啦、議銷啦、議警銷啦民間團體都要上戰場?還會不會?\n93895\t116357\t要看習近平的態度嗎?我想你非常清楚你現在所知道的民防法的部分包括民防人力的訓練或者我們新增叫做民間的防災式的訓練或者是設施的訓練或者是義難的訓練現在都在訓練而且長久以來因為張委員也服貨兵役嘛\n117957\t134123\t你現在已經可能過了啦,我是說原來你也是屬於後備軍人,可能是後備軍人,所以現在都在訓練,但是因應大規模的天災,譬如說日本他有南海海潮,他們可以一下子就可以把整個的...我現在問你一個簡單的問題,你的意思是進入什麼狀況下會全部都要上戰場?\n141365\t142366\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n160776\t161277\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n178980\t179541\t民眾看起來不贊成這個政策\n195953\t197373\t報告委員我們前兩天才報告所以現在要怎麼宣傳我還是跟大家講一下\n215598\t235844\t因為我看到在大規模的天災的時候所有的人都投入也不分黨派不分老少所以這個是台灣最重要的我們的一個保全國力的重要的人的規模那既然是這樣的話我們讓他更專業化可以知道說如果發生狀況的時候你要去哪個地方可以做更好的垂直跟很強的聯繫我想這是非常的好的\n241876\t263195\t總統講完之後,不想參加的有超過七成,這是台灣的民意嘛。我會向委員報告,這樣子的民調資料呢,我是覺得太衝突。為什麼呢?因為第一個,它沒有經過好好的完整的溝通。就好像說我們在總統公佈這樣子的一個全社會防衛任性之後,然後媒體馬上就有很多不同的聲音。\n264816\t267038\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具:「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。」案。\n291533\t298669\t來來我們看一下下一張下一張一百一十二年度我去看你們的資料義勇的警察人士的統計七千個外人\n301277\t326626\t年齡高達50歲以上然後如果是義勇這個消防人員47到48這個投入到戰場去會不會年紀偏大報告委員我還是一再強調沒有所謂的投入戰場現在義勇警察就是要協助警察在維持社會治安所以他在訓練的時候呢怎麼樣加強治安上面應該有的技巧譬如說現在的技巧跟30年前警察不一樣來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來\n331027\t339540\t你講過這個事情嘛 他說現在其實他們的任務啊 你說外圍圈這個任務40萬的這個名利是要警戒嘛 我問你你現在要做什麼訓練 他的裝備在哪裡你要給他什麼裝備 就是40萬的這個名利\n345626\t362163\t你準備做什麼訓練裝備是什麼報告委員這個就不能夠一體試用第一個有的是正規的警察跟消防有的是義消跟消防有的是民防有的甚至是民間團體\n363504\t366226\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n384861\t409847\t有嘛齁,你剛才講那些,你剛才不是說每一個都不一樣,那你怎麼訓練?他有功能上面的分組,第一個我們有提到那你能不能依照你所謂的功能的分組,你給他什麼裝備、什麼訓練?好,報告委員,我們有民防訓練,我們有民防訓練、防災室訓練,然後還有那個義男的訓練跟備役義男的訓練在法令以外你剛才講的,非常完備嘛,對不對?我們希望是大家能夠完全一致\n411687\t436640\t就說一般民眾聽到要有40萬的名利他們想要很明確知道不是要有40萬的名利現在就有40萬他會不會被納到裡面去然後他要做什麼樣的訓練嘛我的要求很簡單你都有規定了嘛那你就是哪些人可能在哪一個我們有些官方有規定但是有些民間團體是要去跟他們拜託要去拜託好啦你差不多一個禮拜你看要怎麼訓練總比什麼給我啦好不好可以嗎好好謝謝現在是喔\n","txt":"二十八號,賴總統開了這個全社會防衛任性的委員會\n一共要培訓40萬可視的民力目標之一就是必要的時候要支援軍事行動但是現在主要的目標是維持社會穩定跟民生運作\n按照民防法的第一個要務是維持政府的功能跟社會穩定是我們民防法的最大的功能有備而來喔來啦我先問你啦啊顧議員想叫你說的到底有一樣嗎顧議員想說一旦情勢如果嚴峻的時候當然要去支援軍事作戰嘛是的在民防法裡面有這樣子的規範我要跟委員報告一下齁\n顧立雄他的鎖本是因為全民防衛動員法那我的鎖本呢是在於災害救治法以及民防法還有替代役的管理條例我這三個法律呢都是我們在執行的過程當中我現在問你的是說你們兩個講的東西有一樣嗎?一體的兩面那這樣會不會變成替代役啦、議銷啦、議警銷啦民間團體都要上戰場?還會不會?\n要看習近平的態度嗎?我想你非常清楚你現在所知道的民防法的部分包括民防人力的訓練或者我們新增叫做民間的防災式的訓練或者是設施的訓練或者是義難的訓練現在都在訓練而且長久以來因為張委員也服貨兵役嘛\n你現在已經可能過了啦,我是說原來你也是屬於後備軍人,可能是後備軍人,所以現在都在訓練,但是因應大規模的天災,譬如說日本他有南海海潮,他們可以一下子就可以把整個的...我現在問你一個簡單的問題,你的意思是進入什麼狀況下會全部都要上戰場?\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n民眾看起來不贊成這個政策\n報告委員我們前兩天才報告所以現在要怎麼宣傳我還是跟大家講一下\n因為我看到在大規模的天災的時候所有的人都投入也不分黨派不分老少所以這個是台灣最重要的我們的一個保全國力的重要的人的規模那既然是這樣的話我們讓他更專業化可以知道說如果發生狀況的時候你要去哪個地方可以做更好的垂直跟很強的聯繫我想這是非常的好的\n總統講完之後,不想參加的有超過七成,這是台灣的民意嘛。我會向委員報告,這樣子的民調資料呢,我是覺得太衝突。為什麼呢?因為第一個,它沒有經過好好的完整的溝通。就好像說我們在總統公佈這樣子的一個全社會防衛任性之後,然後媒體馬上就有很多不同的聲音。\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具:「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。」案。\n來來我們看一下下一張下一張一百一十二年度我去看你們的資料義勇的警察人士的統計七千個外人\n年齡高達50歲以上然後如果是義勇這個消防人員47到48這個投入到戰場去會不會年紀偏大報告委員我還是一再強調沒有所謂的投入戰場現在義勇警察就是要協助警察在維持社會治安所以他在訓練的時候呢怎麼樣加強治安上面應該有的技巧譬如說現在的技巧跟30年前警察不一樣來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來\n你講過這個事情嘛 他說現在其實他們的任務啊 你說外圍圈這個任務40萬的這個名利是要警戒嘛 我問你你現在要做什麼訓練 他的裝備在哪裡你要給他什麼裝備 就是40萬的這個名利\n你準備做什麼訓練裝備是什麼報告委員這個就不能夠一體試用第一個有的是正規的警察跟消防有的是義消跟消防有的是民防有的甚至是民間團體\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n有嘛齁,你剛才講那些,你剛才不是說每一個都不一樣,那你怎麼訓練?他有功能上面的分組,第一個我們有提到那你能不能依照你所謂的功能的分組,你給他什麼裝備、什麼訓練?好,報告委員,我們有民防訓練,我們有民防訓練、防災室訓練,然後還有那個義男的訓練跟備役義男的訓練在法令以外你剛才講的,非常完備嘛,對不對?我們希望是大家能夠完全一致\n就說一般民眾聽到要有40萬的名利他們想要很明確知道不是要有40萬的名利現在就有40萬他會不會被納到裡面去然後他要做什麼樣的訓練嘛我的要求很簡單你都有規定了嘛那你就是哪些人可能在哪一個我們有些官方有規定但是有些民間團體是要去跟他們拜託要去拜託好啦你差不多一個禮拜你看要怎麼訓練總比什麼給我啦好不好可以嗎好好謝謝現在是喔\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.104 --> 00:19.528\n二十八號,賴總統開了這個全社會防衛任性的委員會\n\n00:29.861 --> 00:41.929\n一共要培訓40萬可視的民力目標之一就是必要的時候要支援軍事行動但是現在主要的目標是維持社會穩定跟民生運作\n\n00:43.127 --> 01:02.047\n按照民防法的第一個要務是維持政府的功能跟社會穩定是我們民防法的最大的功能有備而來喔來啦我先問你啦啊顧議員想叫你說的到底有一樣嗎顧議員想說一旦情勢如果嚴峻的時候當然要去支援軍事作戰嘛是的在民防法裡面有這樣子的規範我要跟委員報告一下齁\n\n01:04.389 --> 01:21.843\n顧立雄他的鎖本是因為全民防衛動員法那我的鎖本呢是在於災害救治法以及民防法還有替代役的管理條例我這三個法律呢都是我們在執行的過程當中我現在問你的是說你們兩個講的東西有一樣嗎?一體的兩面那這樣會不會變成替代役啦、議銷啦、議警銷啦民間團體都要上戰場?還會不會?\n\n01:33.895 --> 01:56.357\n要看習近平的態度嗎?我想你非常清楚你現在所知道的民防法的部分包括民防人力的訓練或者我們新增叫做民間的防災式的訓練或者是設施的訓練或者是義難的訓練現在都在訓練而且長久以來因為張委員也服貨兵役嘛\n\n01:57.957 --> 02:14.123\n你現在已經可能過了啦,我是說原來你也是屬於後備軍人,可能是後備軍人,所以現在都在訓練,但是因應大規模的天災,譬如說日本他有南海海潮,他們可以一下子就可以把整個的...我現在問你一個簡單的問題,你的意思是進入什麼狀況下會全部都要上戰場?\n\n02:21.365 --> 02:22.366\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n02:40.776 --> 02:41.277\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n02:58.980 --> 02:59.541\n民眾看起來不贊成這個政策\n\n03:15.953 --> 03:17.373\n報告委員我們前兩天才報告所以現在要怎麼宣傳我還是跟大家講一下\n\n03:35.598 --> 03:55.844\n因為我看到在大規模的天災的時候所有的人都投入也不分黨派不分老少所以這個是台灣最重要的我們的一個保全國力的重要的人的規模那既然是這樣的話我們讓他更專業化可以知道說如果發生狀況的時候你要去哪個地方可以做更好的垂直跟很強的聯繫我想這是非常的好的\n\n04:01.876 --> 04:23.195\n總統講完之後,不想參加的有超過七成,這是台灣的民意嘛。我會向委員報告,這樣子的民調資料呢,我是覺得太衝突。為什麼呢?因為第一個,它沒有經過好好的完整的溝通。就好像說我們在總統公佈這樣子的一個全社會防衛任性之後,然後媒體馬上就有很多不同的聲音。\n\n04:24.816 --> 04:27.038\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具:「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。」案。\n\n04:51.533 --> 04:58.669\n來來我們看一下下一張下一張一百一十二年度我去看你們的資料義勇的警察人士的統計七千個外人\n\n05:01.277 --> 05:26.626\n年齡高達50歲以上然後如果是義勇這個消防人員47到48這個投入到戰場去會不會年紀偏大報告委員我還是一再強調沒有所謂的投入戰場現在義勇警察就是要協助警察在維持社會治安所以他在訓練的時候呢怎麼樣加強治安上面應該有的技巧譬如說現在的技巧跟30年前警察不一樣來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來\n\n05:31.027 --> 05:39.540\n你講過這個事情嘛他說現在其實他們的任務啊你說外圍圈這個任務40萬的這個名利是要警戒嘛我問你你現在要做什麼訓練他的裝備在哪裡你要給他什麼裝備就是40萬的這個名利\n\n05:45.626 --> 06:02.163\n你準備做什麼訓練裝備是什麼報告委員這個就不能夠一體試用第一個有的是正規的警察跟消防有的是義消跟消防有的是民防有的甚至是民間團體\n\n06:03.504 --> 06:06.226\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n06:24.861 --> 06:49.847\n有嘛齁,你剛才講那些,你剛才不是說每一個都不一樣,那你怎麼訓練?他有功能上面的分組,第一個我們有提到那你能不能依照你所謂的功能的分組,你給他什麼裝備、什麼訓練?好,報告委員,我們有民防訓練,我們有民防訓練、防災室訓練,然後還有那個義男的訓練跟備役義男的訓練在法令以外你剛才講的,非常完備嘛,對不對?我們希望是大家能夠完全一致\n\n06:51.687 --> 07:16.640\n就說一般民眾聽到要有40萬的名利他們想要很明確知道不是要有40萬的名利現在就有40萬他會不會被納到裡面去然後他要做什麼樣的訓練嘛我的要求很簡單你都有規定了嘛那你就是哪些人可能在哪一個我們有些官方有規定但是有些民間團體是要去跟他們拜託要去拜託好啦你差不多一個禮拜你看要怎麼訓練總比什麼給我啦好不好可以嗎好好謝謝現在是喔\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.104,"end":19.528,"text":"二十八號,賴總統開了這個全社會防衛任性的委員會"},{"start":29.861,"end":41.929,"text":"一共要培訓40萬可視的民力目標之一就是必要的時候要支援軍事行動但是現在主要的目標是維持社會穩定跟民生運作"},{"start":43.127,"end":62.047,"text":"按照民防法的第一個要務是維持政府的功能跟社會穩定是我們民防法的最大的功能有備而來喔來啦我先問你啦啊顧議員想叫你說的到底有一樣嗎顧議員想說一旦情勢如果嚴峻的時候當然要去支援軍事作戰嘛是的在民防法裡面有這樣子的規範我要跟委員報告一下齁"},{"start":64.389,"end":81.843,"text":"顧立雄他的鎖本是因為全民防衛動員法那我的鎖本呢是在於災害救治法以及民防法還有替代役的管理條例我這三個法律呢都是我們在執行的過程當中我現在問你的是說你們兩個講的東西有一樣嗎?一體的兩面那這樣會不會變成替代役啦、議銷啦、議警銷啦民間團體都要上戰場?還會不會?"},{"start":93.895,"end":116.357,"text":"要看習近平的態度嗎?我想你非常清楚你現在所知道的民防法的部分包括民防人力的訓練或者我們新增叫做民間的防災式的訓練或者是設施的訓練或者是義難的訓練現在都在訓練而且長久以來因為張委員也服貨兵役嘛"},{"start":117.957,"end":134.123,"text":"你現在已經可能過了啦,我是說原來你也是屬於後備軍人,可能是後備軍人,所以現在都在訓練,但是因應大規模的天災,譬如說日本他有南海海潮,他們可以一下子就可以把整個的...我現在問你一個簡單的問題,你的意思是進入什麼狀況下會全部都要上戰場?"},{"start":141.365,"end":142.366,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":160.776,"end":161.277,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":178.98,"end":179.541,"text":"民眾看起來不贊成這個政策"},{"start":195.953,"end":197.373,"text":"報告委員我們前兩天才報告所以現在要怎麼宣傳我還是跟大家講一下"},{"start":215.598,"end":235.844,"text":"因為我看到在大規模的天災的時候所有的人都投入也不分黨派不分老少所以這個是台灣最重要的我們的一個保全國力的重要的人的規模那既然是這樣的話我們讓他更專業化可以知道說如果發生狀況的時候你要去哪個地方可以做更好的垂直跟很強的聯繫我想這是非常的好的"},{"start":241.876,"end":263.195,"text":"總統講完之後,不想參加的有超過七成,這是台灣的民意嘛。我會向委員報告,這樣子的民調資料呢,我是覺得太衝突。為什麼呢?因為第一個,它沒有經過好好的完整的溝通。就好像說我們在總統公佈這樣子的一個全社會防衛任性之後,然後媒體馬上就有很多不同的聲音。"},{"start":264.816,"end":267.038,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具:「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":291.533,"end":298.669,"text":"來來我們看一下下一張下一張一百一十二年度我去看你們的資料義勇的警察人士的統計七千個外人"},{"start":301.277,"end":326.626,"text":"年齡高達50歲以上然後如果是義勇這個消防人員47到48這個投入到戰場去會不會年紀偏大報告委員我還是一再強調沒有所謂的投入戰場現在義勇警察就是要協助警察在維持社會治安所以他在訓練的時候呢怎麼樣加強治安上面應該有的技巧譬如說現在的技巧跟30年前警察不一樣來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":331.027,"end":339.54,"text":"你講過這個事情嘛 他說現在其實他們的任務啊 你說外圍圈這個任務40萬的這個名利是要警戒嘛 我問你你現在要做什麼訓練 他的裝備在哪裡你要給他什麼裝備 就是40萬的這個名利"},{"start":345.626,"end":362.163,"text":"你準備做什麼訓練裝備是什麼報告委員這個就不能夠一體試用第一個有的是正規的警察跟消防有的是義消跟消防有的是民防有的甚至是民間團體"},{"start":363.504,"end":366.226,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":384.861,"end":409.847,"text":"有嘛齁,你剛才講那些,你剛才不是說每一個都不一樣,那你怎麼訓練?他有功能上面的分組,第一個我們有提到那你能不能依照你所謂的功能的分組,你給他什麼裝備、什麼訓練?好,報告委員,我們有民防訓練,我們有民防訓練、防災室訓練,然後還有那個義男的訓練跟備役義男的訓練在法令以外你剛才講的,非常完備嘛,對不對?我們希望是大家能夠完全一致"},{"start":411.687,"end":436.64,"text":"就說一般民眾聽到要有40萬的名利他們想要很明確知道不是要有40萬的名利現在就有40萬他會不會被納到裡面去然後他要做什麼樣的訓練嘛我的要求很簡單你都有規定了嘛那你就是哪些人可能在哪一個我們有些官方有規定但是有些民間團體是要去跟他們拜託要去拜託好啦你差不多一個禮拜你看要怎麼訓練總比什麼給我啦好不好可以嗎好好謝謝現在是喔"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:32:46 - 11:40:08","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","id":155000,"gazette":{"lineno":780,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時32分）請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員你好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長你好。26號賴總統開了全社會防衛韌性的委員會，他說，要培訓40萬可恃的民力，目標之一就是必要的時候要支援軍事行動。"],["劉部長世芳：但是現在主要的目標是維持社會穩定跟民生運作，按照民防法，第一個要務是維持政府的功能跟社會穩定，這是我們民防法最大的功能。"],["張委員啓楷：部長有備而來。我先問你，顧立雄跟你說的，到底有沒有一樣？顧立雄說，一旦情勢嚴峻的時候，當然要去支援軍事作戰。"],["劉部長世芳：是的，在民防法裡面是有這樣子的規範，我要跟委員報告一下，顧立雄他的所本是因為全民防衛動員法，我的所本則是在於災害救治法以及民防法，還有替代役管理條例，我這三個法律都是我們在執行的過程當中……"],["張委員啓楷：我現在問你的是你們兩個說的東西有沒有一樣？第二個，更重要的是……"],["劉部長世芳：是一體的兩面。"],["張委員啓楷：這樣會不會變成替代役、義警消、民間團體都要上戰場？"],["劉部長世芳：要看習近平的態度啊！"],["張委員啓楷：你是說如果全面開戰就是全部都要上戰場的意思嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我想委員非常清楚，你現在所知道的民防法，包括民防人力的訓練，或者是我們新增的民間防災士的訓練，或者是設施的訓練，或者是役男的訓練，現在都在訓練，而且長久以來，張委員也服過兵役，你現在的年紀可能已經超過了，我的意思是，原本你也可能屬於後備軍人，所以現在都在訓練，但是因應大規模的天災，譬如說日本有南海海槽，他們一下子就可以把整個……"],["張委員啓楷：我的時間有限，不好意思，我知道你準備很多，我現在問你最簡單的，你的意思是，如果進入什麼樣的狀況下會全部都要上戰場？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，那個不是由內政部來做決定，而且不是假設的議題。"],["張委員啓楷：所以總統說的民力不是民兵？是不是民兵？不是？"],["劉部長世芳：我跟委員報告一下，我們既然講全社會的防衛韌性，第一個是強調韌性；第二個是全社會，全社會就必須有官跟民的組織能夠一起加進來，如果有發生大規模的震災，以我負責的方向，譬如說有三、四個縣市都遭受到大規模震災……"],["張委員啓楷：所以顧立雄說的是到前線去支援軍事作戰，但你說的不是嘛？"],["劉部長世芳：他是說必要時啊！"],["張委員啓楷：你講的是只有在救災的時候，但必要的時候也會……"],["劉部長世芳：我不曉得委員所說的前線在哪裡，我們現在採取的就是怎麼樣做好防衛臺灣、保家衛國的功能，這是我們最重要的任務。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你們兩個說的是一體兩面，都有可能就對了？"],["劉部長世芳：有可能。"],["張委員啓楷：但問題是民眾看起來不贊成這個政策啊！"],["劉部長世芳：這樣子的一個民調是從哪裡來的，我就比較不清楚了。"],["張委員啓楷：這是雅虎的民調，完全不贊成的有48.4%；不太贊成……"],["劉部長世芳：因為他們並不清楚所謂的民力是指什麼意思。"],["張委員啓楷：你宣傳完了之後，他們就會贊成就對了？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們前兩天才報告，所以現在要怎麼宣傳？我還是跟大家講一下，因為我看到在發生大規模天災的時候，所有的人都投入，也都是不分黨派、不分老少，所以這個是臺灣最重要的，是我們保全國力、重要的一個關於人的規模，既然是這樣的話，我們讓他們更專業化，如果發生狀況的時候，他們可以知道要去哪個地方，可以做更好垂直跟橫向的聯繫，我想這是非常得好……"],["張委員啓楷：請部長好好說明、好好宣傳，看看贊成的人會不會越來越多！","再來，總統講完之後，不想參加的有超過七成，這是臺灣的民意。"],["劉部長世芳：我要跟委員報告，這樣的民調資料，我是覺得太匆促了，為什麼呢？因為第一個，它沒有經過好好、完整的溝通，就好像在總統公布這樣一個全社會防衛韌性之後，媒體馬上就有很多不同的聲音……"],["張委員啓楷：部長認為差不多需要多少時間？一個月後再做一次民調？有需要嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我跟委員報告，我們現在在推廣的是防災士，立法院也是參加，而且很多人都有拿到證照，防災士的部分，現在願意參加的有三萬多人，很大的部分，我不能說全部，很大的部分都是民間團體，甚至有些是宗教團體，所以這個部分事實上應該要好好去推廣才對。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我們比較客觀來看，我問一件事情，112年度，我看到你們的資料顯示，關於義勇警察人數統計，總共有七千多人，平均年齡高達50歲以上；然後義勇消防人員的平均年齡是47到48歲，這些人投入戰場，會不會年紀偏大？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我還是要一再強調，沒有所謂的投入戰場，現在義勇警察就是要協助警察維持社會治安，所以他在訓練的時候，就是怎麼樣加強治安上面應該有的技巧，譬如說，現在的技巧跟30年前警察所用的就不太一樣；義消也是一樣……"],["張委員啓楷：接著我要問你如何訓練，你講過這個事情，你說外圍圈的任務，即這40萬民力的任務是要警戒，我問你，現在要做什麼訓練？他的裝備在哪裡？你要給他什麼裝備？就是這40萬的民力，你準備做什麼訓練？裝備是什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，這個就不能夠一體適用，第一個，有的是正規的警察跟消防，有的是義勇警消，有的是民防，有的甚至是民間團體，有的甚至是宗廟團體，甚至有一些是屬於相關物資輸送等其他的企業組織，所以我們在碰到大規模狀況的時候，我們要根據他們能夠做的部分，幫他們做最好的訓練，但是最重要……"],["張委員啓楷：你們應該已經準備好了、有制度化了，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是，但是這樣子的規劃，有些已經在準備了……"],["張委員啓楷：你現在手上就有資料，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：我不知道委員說的是哪一方面的資料。"],["張委員啓楷：你剛才說每一個都不一樣，所以你怎麼訓練？"],["劉部長世芳：這有功能上面的分組，第一個我們有提到……"],["張委員啓楷：能不能就你所謂功能的分組，包括你給他什麼裝備、什麼訓練……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們有民防訓練……"],["張委員啓楷：你一個禮拜內給我這份資料，可以嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我們有民防訓練、防災士訓練，然後還有役男的訓練跟備役役男的訓練。"],["張委員啓楷：除了法令以外，你剛才說這非常的完備，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：我們希望大家能夠團結一致。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，一般民眾聽到要有40萬的民力後，他們想要很明確知道……"],["劉部長世芳：不是要有40萬的民力，而是現在就有40萬的民力。"],["張委員啓楷：他會不會被納到裡面去，然後他要做什麼樣的訓練，我的要求很簡單，就是你剛才說的，你都有規定了嘛！那你就是哪些人可能在哪一個……"],["劉部長世芳：我們有些官方又規定，但是有些民間團體是要去跟他們拜託。"],["張委員啓楷：拜託，好啊！你差不多1個禮拜，你看要怎麼訓練、裝備等等的資料再給我，好不好？可以嗎？好，謝謝。"],["主席：高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在。","鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","張嘉郡、張嘉郡、張嘉郡委員不在。","陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","傅崐萁、傅崐萁、傅崐萁委員不在。","林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在。","李彥秀、李彥秀、李彥秀委員不在。","邱志偉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}}