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00:00:49,167\n拜登建制計劃從2023年4月底啟動之後大概一年的時間我們在今年的5月初有成果的發表本席在5月底的時候有試用過發現說其實泰德的資料庫有許多資料沒有及時的更新本席在質詢的時候主委這邊我也有詢過\n\n3\n00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:54,932\n國科會應該增加TIDE資料庫並設定出定期更新時程,目前辦理狀況如何定定?\n\n4\n00:01:09,486 --> 00:01:37,212\n我們也持續編列預算從明年開始也希望增加它的這個應用那陳委員所提到的我們在應用的時候那個訓練資料非常重要那我們現在有不同的這個管道或者資料一個就是公開的資料是免費的不需要授權的另外一種就是需要授權的資料我們也增加需要授權資料需要編列經費因為有些資料是需要授權金的\n\n5\n00:01:37,332 --> 00:01:37,652\n對於更新的時程,你們怎麼訂定?\n\n6\n00:01:55,137 --> 00:02:06,771\n資料更新是一直在持續進行的啦那現在幾個重點的推動第一個會以公部門的資料為主所以我們在年底會推出一些公部門的應用推出那包含立院達許這些系統也在規劃之中\n\n7\n00:02:08,365 --> 00:02:31,050\n所以是不定期的來更新資料更新本來就一直在收集我們一個團隊在國研院下面一個團隊一直在持續收集資料泰德在目前已經算是一個訓練有成果出來的階段那後續呢作為說我們泰德算是一個比較完整的資訊而且是資訊正確的一個繁體中文的語言模型那後續呢國科會這邊你們有沒有對泰德的推廣有什麼計畫跟目標我們預計跟哪些產業來合作\n\n8\n00:02:37,694 --> 00:03:07,172\n我們將來在智慧科技當然方產業生態系我們從事應用的時候我們也會把它用上來將來就會結合我們的產業的發展希望產業進來以後針對各行各業能夠訓練各行各業需求的這種模型再從明年的計畫開始就會陸續推動所以也就不只在現在我們的預算只能協助政府做部分的這個應用而已將來各行各業的應用才是最重要的\n\n9\n00:03:07,972 --> 00:03:21,505\n後續有沒有跨國的推廣合作的這些使用的計畫?如果將來使用繁體中文的系統的一些應用其他國家地區有需要的話我們當然也能夠透過我們的產業界能夠擴展到國際市場\n\n10\n00:03:23,206 --> 00:03:48,984\n因為這個不同於是那種開放性的就是比較open的那種AI的使用它是一個比較有選擇性的但是因為國科會我們建制的這個態的這個整個系統其實很不容易而且這也是正確的方向因為其實大家有體會到說在這個目前AI的使用上簡體字版其實對我們台灣是非常的不友善而且很多訊息是不正確的那所以說我們如果已經有\n\n11\n00:03:50,845 --> 00:04:11,598\n一個成果展現出來的希望可以持續的精進泰德的資料庫向世界展現說我們可以正確回答台灣相關問題的AI那這個部分也希望說我們國科會這邊除了剛才我提到的在資料庫的建置補充以及更新這個隨時的更新之外呢能夠比較積極的來推廣我們有一個正確的聲音在國際上替我們台灣來發聲\n\n12\n00:04:16,761 --> 00:04:21,066\n委員提醒非常重要,我們也很同意,我們希望往這個方向努力\n\n13\n00:04:22,357 --> 00:04:28,643\n那接下來我想請教主委其實今天也蠻多委員有針對這個問題審計部有針對我們國科會延攬人才計畫中我們博士級的這個研究人員的延攬情形提出了檢討那有指出說其中有178位的人員接受這個補助延攬已經10到22次更有123位的人員自從102年開始就接受這個延攬補助\n\n14\n00:04:47,538 --> 00:04:50,281\n本席覺得說其實針對延攬人才的補助我們的初衷是希望說我們這些人才在計畫結束之後呢可以轉任進學校產業或是研究機構但是像這個樣子不斷的接受延攬的狀況主委你對這個狀況你有什麼想法我覺得的確是對這些人才\n\n15\n00:05:08,941 --> 00:05:36,701\n來講有些不公平的地方那我們其實也已經提醒我們用人的單位在接受國會補助的時候希望能夠協助這些人才能夠做適當的生涯發展不要只是說一個聘約結束就沒有了這些人員其實他是計劃人力他不是認知他等於是非典型的勞工他對他的這樣的一份工作其實他沒有長期聘用的保證相對來說也是對他生涯發展的一個阻礙\n\n16\n00:05:37,381 --> 00:05:41,503\n所以希望說國科會你們要針對這樣的狀況是不是有建立一個審查排查的機制不僅只是說學術單位沒有開缺的這個問題其實產業界也是需要人才的那有人才的需求國科會更應該縫合我們的計畫的研究人才跟產業人才的這個落差讓我們這個人才可以延續上因為這些人才他們出入在哪裡他如果一直困在這些短期的研究計畫裡面他們的出入何在\n\n17\n00:06:06,892 --> 00:06:07,893\n主委,您對這個部分有什麼看法?\n\n18\n00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:45,282\n我蠻認同的我們接下來新的這一期的計畫我們會提醒申請的用人的單位如果國會補助的話我們當然是期待說我們用人單位要積極的來協助他使用的這些人才將來在生涯發展也要協助他們不要期限到就拼約結束就不管了希望他們也能夠積極協助\n\n19\n00:06:47,184 --> 00:07:05,944\n您也是有意識到這個問題的存在所以這個部分希望說除了說有審計部對你們提出檢討之外你們本身對這個問題的產生為什麼有這樣的現象那有了這樣的現象之後如果去協助跟解決國科會你必須有一個機制是\n\n20\n00:07:06,854 --> 00:07:13,878\n接下來對於大南方計畫這邊就叫主委首先本席也要肯認主委在大南方計畫的目標針對AI的發展蓬勃不僅只是科技產業需要導入AI跟高科技的協助當然在本席的選區有很多傳產如果傳產的整個製程營運以及研發可以從AI的發展中得到注意本席相信說我們邁向智慧科技導這個速度會更快\n\n21\n00:07:34,048 --> 00:08:00,813\n所以本席也十分的支持國會提出的這個推出適合於百工百業的AI應用並且來發展系統性的應用服務為百工百業來服務但是本席還是要先關心一下就是在波拉格前進基地目前的狀況那媒體有報導說我們波拉格的IC設計的基地還沒有開始營運那本席請問之後呢都是說你們是在調整方向那想要了解一下說所謂調整方向\n\n22\n00:08:02,216 --> 00:08:07,214\n的內容跟我們到底什麼時候這個基地可以開始提供培訓服務\n\n23\n00:08:08,089 --> 00:08:35,997\n我們因為5月剛接任的時候對這個合作的這個內容不是很清楚那再加上接下來又有捷克的那個選舉所以他們的那個政府的那個組織負責的這個人員也會有一些更替然後執行的單位包含那個大學端還有他們的政府的那個負責的這個部門之間也有一些不同的這個看法所以經過一段時間的\n\n24\n00:08:37,697 --> 00:08:37,717\n﹑陳秀寳\n\n25\n00:08:56,201 --> 00:08:57,702\n國會負責人才培育,我認為在年底之前應該會定案。\n\n26\n00:09:19,193 --> 00:09:39,707\n主委的意思是說在年底之前就會有好消息其實本席一系列的這個問題都是聚焦在人才的培訓、研覽、流產以及育產所以希望說國會會這邊可以當人才培育的領頭羊既然我們看見國際的需求也了解到產業的困境那我們要輔導傳產進入智慧科技的這個領域也希望說智慧科技在台灣各產業各領域都能夠均衡的發展那延續剛剛提到的\n\n27\n00:09:44,831 --> 00:09:52,756\n114年國科會跨部會推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系推動方案那預計在5年會投入300億元的預算分成4大領域來推動但是其實在預算說明會上面國科會並沒有對系部的計畫及預算的使用說的詳細那這麼大規模的預算我相信民眾也會想知道說國科會你們在推動這個方案的規劃及內容\n\n28\n00:10:11,607 --> 00:10:35,649\n所以主委這個部分也要請你們多加說明因為你們只有在擴散力引人才練場域之後然後帶入展應用那其實對一般的民眾來講他們沒有辦法了解說你們講得這麼籠統到底你們是要做哪些那再來呢我要問的是說其中你們引人才的部分你們將串聯嘉義台南高雄的技職學校協助技職轉型\n\n29\n00:10:36,610 --> 00:10:55,918\n那其中參旅、健康照護都是優先推行的目標但是學界是有疑慮了那以往國科會你們就常常被詬病說你們是重科學情人文那這一次的人才培育計畫呢是不是又有可能將大量的資源依註到注重在生技、醫學這樣的項目而忽視了參與的部分那主委那針對這個部分呢國科會你們70億這個預算你們如何運用\n\n30\n00:11:04,929 --> 00:11:29,155\n我們其實是要協助百工百業所以不只是在科技提供的領域連需求端剛剛委員也有提到餐飲業、旅館業、休閒業等等這些其實都在我們將來要協助的範圍裡面希望能夠讓他們可以引進AI但是AI的提供端我們也會補助需求端我們也會補助\n\n31\n00:11:30,075 --> 00:11:45,330\n現在在學界一例就是說你們有沒有一個審查的機制你們未來的資源是不是會合理的分配或者是你們只是把產業框進來但是預算資源又沒有合理分配只是偏重某些的領域不會只偏重某些領域我們會全面性的來協助\n\n32\n00:11:46,671 --> 00:11:57,419\n謝主委,所以本席希望國科會為你們推動各項政策要落實產學溝通溝通真的非常重要尤其國科會你們這次將參與健康這個列為是AI科技推動的重點目標所以一定要針對產學合作這個需求來制定計劃才能夠創造產學雙贏的這個榮景這個部分不知道說\n\n33\n00:12:11,691 --> 00:12:15,162\n如果你們有沒有領略到說學界他們的憂慮在哪裡?焦慮在哪裡?\n\n34\n00:12:17,196 --> 00:12:19,178\n主要就是我剛剛講的你們不能只是把產業框進來之後你們誘導資源偏重在某些領域這樣對這些學界也是不公平的好謝謝委員提醒\n\n35\n00:12:43,801 --> 00:12:46,607\n謝謝陳秀寳委員那主委請回再來是羅志強委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4096\t7498\t現在主席請吳主委有請吳主委主委好在2022年底CHAT GPT公布之後呢我們國科會這邊就有意識到說其實這個AI聊天機器人的這個文化侵略性質很強那所以也宣布我們台灣呢要自己製造自己的繁體中文語言模型也就是TED\n32734\t49167\t拜登建制計劃從2023年4月底啟動之後大概一年的時間我們在今年的5月初有成果的發表本席在5月底的時候有試用過發現說其實泰德的資料庫有許多資料沒有及時的更新本席在質詢的時候主委這邊我也有詢過\n52850\t54932\t國科會應該增加TIDE資料庫並設定出定期更新時程,目前辦理狀況如何定定?\n69486\t97212\t我們也持續編列預算從明年開始也希望增加它的這個應用那陳委員所提到的我們在應用的時候那個訓練資料非常重要那我們現在有不同的這個管道或者資料一個就是公開的資料是免費的不需要授權的另外一種就是需要授權的資料我們也增加需要授權資料需要編列經費因為有些資料是需要授權金的\n97332\t97652\t對於更新的時程,你們怎麼訂定?\n115137\t126771\t資料更新是一直在持續進行的啦那現在幾個重點的推動第一個會以公部門的資料為主所以我們在年底會推出一些公部門的應用推出那包含立院達許這些系統也在規劃之中\n128365\t151050\t所以是不定期的來更新資料更新本來就一直在收集我們一個團隊在國研院下面一個團隊一直在持續收集資料泰德在目前已經算是一個訓練有成果出來的階段那後續呢作為說我們泰德算是一個比較完整的資訊而且是資訊正確的一個繁體中文的語言模型那後續呢國科會這邊你們有沒有對泰德的推廣有什麼計畫跟目標我們預計跟哪些產業來合作\n157694\t187172\t我們將來在智慧科技當然方產業生態系我們從事應用的時候我們也會把它用上來將來就會結合我們的產業的發展希望產業進來以後針對各行各業能夠訓練各行各業需求的這種模型再從明年的計畫開始就會陸續推動所以也就不只在現在我們的預算只能協助政府做部分的這個應用而已將來各行各業的應用才是最重要的\n187972\t201505\t後續有沒有跨國的推廣合作的這些使用的計畫?如果將來使用繁體中文的系統的一些應用其他國家地區有需要的話我們當然也能夠透過我們的產業界能夠擴展到國際市場\n203206\t228984\t因為這個不同於是那種開放性的就是比較open的那種AI的使用它是一個比較有選擇性的但是因為國科會我們建制的這個態的這個整個系統其實很不容易而且這也是正確的方向因為其實大家有體會到說在這個目前AI的使用上簡體字版其實對我們台灣是非常的不友善而且很多訊息是不正確的那所以說我們如果已經有\n230845\t251598\t一個成果展現出來的希望可以持續的精進泰德的資料庫向世界展現說我們可以正確回答台灣相關問題的AI那這個部分也希望說我們國科會這邊除了剛才我提到的在資料庫的建置補充以及更新這個隨時的更新之外呢能夠比較積極的來推廣我們有一個正確的聲音在國際上替我們台灣來發聲\n256761\t261066\t委員提醒非常重要,我們也很同意,我們希望往這個方向努力\n262357\t268643\t那接下來我想請教主委其實今天也蠻多委員有針對這個問題審計部有針對我們國科會延攬人才計畫中我們博士級的這個研究人員的延攬情形提出了檢討那有指出說其中有178位的人員接受這個補助延攬已經10到22次更有123位的人員自從102年開始就接受這個延攬補助\n287538\t290281\t本席覺得說其實針對延攬人才的補助我們的初衷是希望說我們這些人才在計畫結束之後呢可以轉任進學校產業或是研究機構但是像這個樣子不斷的接受延攬的狀況主委你對這個狀況你有什麼想法我覺得的確是對這些人才\n308941\t336701\t來講有些不公平的地方那我們其實也已經提醒我們用人的單位在接受國會補助的時候希望能夠協助這些人才能夠做適當的生涯發展不要只是說一個聘約結束就沒有了這些人員其實他是計劃人力他不是認知他等於是非典型的勞工他對他的這樣的一份工作其實他沒有長期聘用的保證相對來說也是對他生涯發展的一個阻礙\n337381\t341503\t所以希望說國科會你們要針對這樣的狀況是不是有建立一個審查排查的機制不僅只是說學術單位沒有開缺的這個問題其實產業界也是需要人才的那有人才的需求國科會更應該縫合我們的計畫的研究人才跟產業人才的這個落差讓我們這個人才可以延續上因為這些人才他們出入在哪裡他如果一直困在這些短期的研究計畫裡面他們的出入何在\n366892\t367893\t主委,您對這個部分有什麼看法?\n382160\t405282\t我蠻認同的我們接下來新的這一期的計畫我們會提醒申請的用人的單位如果國會補助的話我們當然是期待說我們用人單位要積極的來協助他使用的這些人才將來在生涯發展也要協助他們不要期限到就拼約結束就不管了希望他們也能夠積極協助\n407184\t425944\t您也是有意識到這個問題的存在所以這個部分希望說除了說有審計部對你們提出檢討之外你們本身對這個問題的產生為什麼有這樣的現象那有了這樣的現象之後如果去協助跟解決國科會你必須有一個機制是\n426854\t433878\t接下來對於大南方計畫這邊就叫主委首先本席也要肯認主委在大南方計畫的目標針對AI的發展蓬勃不僅只是科技產業需要導入AI跟高科技的協助當然在本席的選區有很多傳產如果傳產的整個製程營運以及研發可以從AI的發展中得到注意本席相信說我們邁向智慧科技導這個速度會更快\n454048\t480813\t所以本席也十分的支持國會提出的這個推出適合於百工百業的AI應用並且來發展系統性的應用服務為百工百業來服務但是本席還是要先關心一下就是在波拉格前進基地目前的狀況那媒體有報導說我們波拉格的IC設計的基地還沒有開始營運那本席請問之後呢都是說你們是在調整方向那想要了解一下說所謂調整方向\n482216\t487214\t的內容跟我們到底什麼時候 這個基地可以開始提供培訓服務\n488089\t515997\t我們因為5月剛接任的時候對這個合作的這個內容不是很清楚那再加上接下來又有捷克的那個選舉所以他們的那個政府的那個組織負責的這個人員也會有一些更替然後執行的單位包含那個大學端還有他們的政府的那個負責的這個部門之間也有一些不同的這個看法所以經過一段時間的\n517697\t517717\t﹑陳秀寳\n536201\t537702\t國會負責人才培育,我認為在年底之前應該會定案。\n559193\t579707\t主委的意思是說在年底之前就會有好消息其實本席一系列的這個問題都是聚焦在人才的培訓、研覽、流產以及育產所以希望說國會會這邊可以當人才培育的領頭羊既然我們看見國際的需求也了解到產業的困境那我們要輔導傳產進入智慧科技的這個領域也希望說智慧科技在台灣各產業各領域都能夠均衡的發展那延續剛剛提到的\n584831\t592756\t114年國科會跨部會推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系推動方案那預計在5年會投入300億元的預算分成4大領域來推動但是其實在預算說明會上面國科會並沒有對系部的計畫及預算的使用說的詳細那這麼大規模的預算我相信民眾也會想知道說國科會你們在推動這個方案的規劃及內容\n611607\t635649\t所以主委這個部分也要請你們多加說明因為你們只有在擴散力引人才練場域之後然後帶入展應用那其實對一般的民眾來講他們沒有辦法了解說你們講得這麼籠統到底你們是要做哪些那再來呢我要問的是說其中你們引人才的部分你們將串聯嘉義台南高雄的技職學校協助技職轉型\n636610\t655918\t那其中參旅、健康照護都是優先推行的目標但是學界是有疑慮了那以往國科會你們就常常被詬病說你們是重科學情人文那這一次的人才培育計畫呢是不是又有可能將大量的資源依註到注重在生技、醫學這樣的項目而忽視了參與的部分那主委那針對這個部分呢國科會你們70億這個預算你們如何運用\n664929\t689155\t我們其實是要協助百工百業所以不只是在科技提供的領域連需求端剛剛委員也有提到餐飲業、旅館業、休閒業等等這些其實都在我們將來要協助的範圍裡面希望能夠讓他們可以引進AI但是AI的提供端我們也會補助需求端我們也會補助\n690075\t705330\t現在在學界一例就是說你們有沒有一個審查的機制你們未來的資源是不是會合理的分配或者是你們只是把產業框進來但是預算資源又沒有合理分配只是偏重某些的領域不會只偏重某些領域我們會全面性的來協助\n706671\t717419\t謝主委,所以本席希望國科會為你們推動各項政策要落實產學溝通溝通真的非常重要尤其國科會你們這次將參與健康這個列為是AI科技推動的重點目標所以一定要針對產學合作這個需求來制定計劃才能夠創造產學雙贏的這個榮景這個部分不知道說\n731691\t735162\t如果你們有沒有領略到說學界他們的憂慮在哪裡?焦慮在哪裡?\n737196\t739178\t主要就是我剛剛講的你們不能只是把產業框進來之後你們誘導資源偏重在某些領域這樣對這些學界也是不公平的好 謝謝委員提醒\n763801\t766607\t謝謝陳秀寳委員那主委請回再來是羅志強委員質詢\n","txt":"現在主席請吳主委有請吳主委主委好在2022年底CHAT GPT公布之後呢我們國科會這邊就有意識到說其實這個AI聊天機器人的這個文化侵略性質很強那所以也宣布我們台灣呢要自己製造自己的繁體中文語言模型也就是TED\n拜登建制計劃從2023年4月底啟動之後大概一年的時間我們在今年的5月初有成果的發表本席在5月底的時候有試用過發現說其實泰德的資料庫有許多資料沒有及時的更新本席在質詢的時候主委這邊我也有詢過\n國科會應該增加TIDE資料庫並設定出定期更新時程,目前辦理狀況如何定定?\n我們也持續編列預算從明年開始也希望增加它的這個應用那陳委員所提到的我們在應用的時候那個訓練資料非常重要那我們現在有不同的這個管道或者資料一個就是公開的資料是免費的不需要授權的另外一種就是需要授權的資料我們也增加需要授權資料需要編列經費因為有些資料是需要授權金的\n對於更新的時程,你們怎麼訂定?\n資料更新是一直在持續進行的啦那現在幾個重點的推動第一個會以公部門的資料為主所以我們在年底會推出一些公部門的應用推出那包含立院達許這些系統也在規劃之中\n所以是不定期的來更新資料更新本來就一直在收集我們一個團隊在國研院下面一個團隊一直在持續收集資料泰德在目前已經算是一個訓練有成果出來的階段那後續呢作為說我們泰德算是一個比較完整的資訊而且是資訊正確的一個繁體中文的語言模型那後續呢國科會這邊你們有沒有對泰德的推廣有什麼計畫跟目標我們預計跟哪些產業來合作\n我們將來在智慧科技當然方產業生態系我們從事應用的時候我們也會把它用上來將來就會結合我們的產業的發展希望產業進來以後針對各行各業能夠訓練各行各業需求的這種模型再從明年的計畫開始就會陸續推動所以也就不只在現在我們的預算只能協助政府做部分的這個應用而已將來各行各業的應用才是最重要的\n後續有沒有跨國的推廣合作的這些使用的計畫?如果將來使用繁體中文的系統的一些應用其他國家地區有需要的話我們當然也能夠透過我們的產業界能夠擴展到國際市場\n因為這個不同於是那種開放性的就是比較open的那種AI的使用它是一個比較有選擇性的但是因為國科會我們建制的這個態的這個整個系統其實很不容易而且這也是正確的方向因為其實大家有體會到說在這個目前AI的使用上簡體字版其實對我們台灣是非常的不友善而且很多訊息是不正確的那所以說我們如果已經有\n一個成果展現出來的希望可以持續的精進泰德的資料庫向世界展現說我們可以正確回答台灣相關問題的AI那這個部分也希望說我們國科會這邊除了剛才我提到的在資料庫的建置補充以及更新這個隨時的更新之外呢能夠比較積極的來推廣我們有一個正確的聲音在國際上替我們台灣來發聲\n委員提醒非常重要,我們也很同意,我們希望往這個方向努力\n那接下來我想請教主委其實今天也蠻多委員有針對這個問題審計部有針對我們國科會延攬人才計畫中我們博士級的這個研究人員的延攬情形提出了檢討那有指出說其中有178位的人員接受這個補助延攬已經10到22次更有123位的人員自從102年開始就接受這個延攬補助\n本席覺得說其實針對延攬人才的補助我們的初衷是希望說我們這些人才在計畫結束之後呢可以轉任進學校產業或是研究機構但是像這個樣子不斷的接受延攬的狀況主委你對這個狀況你有什麼想法我覺得的確是對這些人才\n來講有些不公平的地方那我們其實也已經提醒我們用人的單位在接受國會補助的時候希望能夠協助這些人才能夠做適當的生涯發展不要只是說一個聘約結束就沒有了這些人員其實他是計劃人力他不是認知他等於是非典型的勞工他對他的這樣的一份工作其實他沒有長期聘用的保證相對來說也是對他生涯發展的一個阻礙\n所以希望說國科會你們要針對這樣的狀況是不是有建立一個審查排查的機制不僅只是說學術單位沒有開缺的這個問題其實產業界也是需要人才的那有人才的需求國科會更應該縫合我們的計畫的研究人才跟產業人才的這個落差讓我們這個人才可以延續上因為這些人才他們出入在哪裡他如果一直困在這些短期的研究計畫裡面他們的出入何在\n主委,您對這個部分有什麼看法?\n我蠻認同的我們接下來新的這一期的計畫我們會提醒申請的用人的單位如果國會補助的話我們當然是期待說我們用人單位要積極的來協助他使用的這些人才將來在生涯發展也要協助他們不要期限到就拼約結束就不管了希望他們也能夠積極協助\n您也是有意識到這個問題的存在所以這個部分希望說除了說有審計部對你們提出檢討之外你們本身對這個問題的產生為什麼有這樣的現象那有了這樣的現象之後如果去協助跟解決國科會你必須有一個機制是\n接下來對於大南方計畫這邊就叫主委首先本席也要肯認主委在大南方計畫的目標針對AI的發展蓬勃不僅只是科技產業需要導入AI跟高科技的協助當然在本席的選區有很多傳產如果傳產的整個製程營運以及研發可以從AI的發展中得到注意本席相信說我們邁向智慧科技導這個速度會更快\n所以本席也十分的支持國會提出的這個推出適合於百工百業的AI應用並且來發展系統性的應用服務為百工百業來服務但是本席還是要先關心一下就是在波拉格前進基地目前的狀況那媒體有報導說我們波拉格的IC設計的基地還沒有開始營運那本席請問之後呢都是說你們是在調整方向那想要了解一下說所謂調整方向\n的內容跟我們到底什麼時候 這個基地可以開始提供培訓服務\n我們因為5月剛接任的時候對這個合作的這個內容不是很清楚那再加上接下來又有捷克的那個選舉所以他們的那個政府的那個組織負責的這個人員也會有一些更替然後執行的單位包含那個大學端還有他們的政府的那個負責的這個部門之間也有一些不同的這個看法所以經過一段時間的\n﹑陳秀寳\n國會負責人才培育,我認為在年底之前應該會定案。\n主委的意思是說在年底之前就會有好消息其實本席一系列的這個問題都是聚焦在人才的培訓、研覽、流產以及育產所以希望說國會會這邊可以當人才培育的領頭羊既然我們看見國際的需求也了解到產業的困境那我們要輔導傳產進入智慧科技的這個領域也希望說智慧科技在台灣各產業各領域都能夠均衡的發展那延續剛剛提到的\n114年國科會跨部會推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系推動方案那預計在5年會投入300億元的預算分成4大領域來推動但是其實在預算說明會上面國科會並沒有對系部的計畫及預算的使用說的詳細那這麼大規模的預算我相信民眾也會想知道說國科會你們在推動這個方案的規劃及內容\n所以主委這個部分也要請你們多加說明因為你們只有在擴散力引人才練場域之後然後帶入展應用那其實對一般的民眾來講他們沒有辦法了解說你們講得這麼籠統到底你們是要做哪些那再來呢我要問的是說其中你們引人才的部分你們將串聯嘉義台南高雄的技職學校協助技職轉型\n那其中參旅、健康照護都是優先推行的目標但是學界是有疑慮了那以往國科會你們就常常被詬病說你們是重科學情人文那這一次的人才培育計畫呢是不是又有可能將大量的資源依註到注重在生技、醫學這樣的項目而忽視了參與的部分那主委那針對這個部分呢國科會你們70億這個預算你們如何運用\n我們其實是要協助百工百業所以不只是在科技提供的領域連需求端剛剛委員也有提到餐飲業、旅館業、休閒業等等這些其實都在我們將來要協助的範圍裡面希望能夠讓他們可以引進AI但是AI的提供端我們也會補助需求端我們也會補助\n現在在學界一例就是說你們有沒有一個審查的機制你們未來的資源是不是會合理的分配或者是你們只是把產業框進來但是預算資源又沒有合理分配只是偏重某些的領域不會只偏重某些領域我們會全面性的來協助\n謝主委,所以本席希望國科會為你們推動各項政策要落實產學溝通溝通真的非常重要尤其國科會你們這次將參與健康這個列為是AI科技推動的重點目標所以一定要針對產學合作這個需求來制定計劃才能夠創造產學雙贏的這個榮景這個部分不知道說\n如果你們有沒有領略到說學界他們的憂慮在哪裡?焦慮在哪裡?\n主要就是我剛剛講的你們不能只是把產業框進來之後你們誘導資源偏重在某些領域這樣對這些學界也是不公平的好 謝謝委員提醒\n謝謝陳秀寳委員那主委請回再來是羅志強委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.096 --> 00:07.498\n現在主席請吳主委有請吳主委主委好在2022年底CHATGPT公布之後呢我們國科會這邊就有意識到說其實這個AI聊天機器人的這個文化侵略性質很強那所以也宣布我們台灣呢要自己製造自己的繁體中文語言模型也就是TED\n\n00:32.734 --> 00:49.167\n拜登建制計劃從2023年4月底啟動之後大概一年的時間我們在今年的5月初有成果的發表本席在5月底的時候有試用過發現說其實泰德的資料庫有許多資料沒有及時的更新本席在質詢的時候主委這邊我也有詢過\n\n00:52.850 --> 00:54.932\n國科會應該增加TIDE資料庫並設定出定期更新時程,目前辦理狀況如何定定?\n\n01:09.486 --> 01:37.212\n我們也持續編列預算從明年開始也希望增加它的這個應用那陳委員所提到的我們在應用的時候那個訓練資料非常重要那我們現在有不同的這個管道或者資料一個就是公開的資料是免費的不需要授權的另外一種就是需要授權的資料我們也增加需要授權資料需要編列經費因為有些資料是需要授權金的\n\n01:37.332 --> 01:37.652\n對於更新的時程,你們怎麼訂定?\n\n01:55.137 --> 02:06.771\n資料更新是一直在持續進行的啦那現在幾個重點的推動第一個會以公部門的資料為主所以我們在年底會推出一些公部門的應用推出那包含立院達許這些系統也在規劃之中\n\n02:08.365 --> 02:31.050\n所以是不定期的來更新資料更新本來就一直在收集我們一個團隊在國研院下面一個團隊一直在持續收集資料泰德在目前已經算是一個訓練有成果出來的階段那後續呢作為說我們泰德算是一個比較完整的資訊而且是資訊正確的一個繁體中文的語言模型那後續呢國科會這邊你們有沒有對泰德的推廣有什麼計畫跟目標我們預計跟哪些產業來合作\n\n02:37.694 --> 03:07.172\n我們將來在智慧科技當然方產業生態系我們從事應用的時候我們也會把它用上來將來就會結合我們的產業的發展希望產業進來以後針對各行各業能夠訓練各行各業需求的這種模型再從明年的計畫開始就會陸續推動所以也就不只在現在我們的預算只能協助政府做部分的這個應用而已將來各行各業的應用才是最重要的\n\n03:07.972 --> 03:21.505\n後續有沒有跨國的推廣合作的這些使用的計畫?如果將來使用繁體中文的系統的一些應用其他國家地區有需要的話我們當然也能夠透過我們的產業界能夠擴展到國際市場\n\n03:23.206 --> 03:48.984\n因為這個不同於是那種開放性的就是比較open的那種AI的使用它是一個比較有選擇性的但是因為國科會我們建制的這個態的這個整個系統其實很不容易而且這也是正確的方向因為其實大家有體會到說在這個目前AI的使用上簡體字版其實對我們台灣是非常的不友善而且很多訊息是不正確的那所以說我們如果已經有\n\n03:50.845 --> 04:11.598\n一個成果展現出來的希望可以持續的精進泰德的資料庫向世界展現說我們可以正確回答台灣相關問題的AI那這個部分也希望說我們國科會這邊除了剛才我提到的在資料庫的建置補充以及更新這個隨時的更新之外呢能夠比較積極的來推廣我們有一個正確的聲音在國際上替我們台灣來發聲\n\n04:16.761 --> 04:21.066\n委員提醒非常重要,我們也很同意,我們希望往這個方向努力\n\n04:22.357 --> 04:28.643\n那接下來我想請教主委其實今天也蠻多委員有針對這個問題審計部有針對我們國科會延攬人才計畫中我們博士級的這個研究人員的延攬情形提出了檢討那有指出說其中有178位的人員接受這個補助延攬已經10到22次更有123位的人員自從102年開始就接受這個延攬補助\n\n04:47.538 --> 04:50.281\n本席覺得說其實針對延攬人才的補助我們的初衷是希望說我們這些人才在計畫結束之後呢可以轉任進學校產業或是研究機構但是像這個樣子不斷的接受延攬的狀況主委你對這個狀況你有什麼想法我覺得的確是對這些人才\n\n05:08.941 --> 05:36.701\n來講有些不公平的地方那我們其實也已經提醒我們用人的單位在接受國會補助的時候希望能夠協助這些人才能夠做適當的生涯發展不要只是說一個聘約結束就沒有了這些人員其實他是計劃人力他不是認知他等於是非典型的勞工他對他的這樣的一份工作其實他沒有長期聘用的保證相對來說也是對他生涯發展的一個阻礙\n\n05:37.381 --> 05:41.503\n所以希望說國科會你們要針對這樣的狀況是不是有建立一個審查排查的機制不僅只是說學術單位沒有開缺的這個問題其實產業界也是需要人才的那有人才的需求國科會更應該縫合我們的計畫的研究人才跟產業人才的這個落差讓我們這個人才可以延續上因為這些人才他們出入在哪裡他如果一直困在這些短期的研究計畫裡面他們的出入何在\n\n06:06.892 --> 06:07.893\n主委,您對這個部分有什麼看法?\n\n06:22.160 --> 06:45.282\n我蠻認同的我們接下來新的這一期的計畫我們會提醒申請的用人的單位如果國會補助的話我們當然是期待說我們用人單位要積極的來協助他使用的這些人才將來在生涯發展也要協助他們不要期限到就拼約結束就不管了希望他們也能夠積極協助\n\n06:47.184 --> 07:05.944\n您也是有意識到這個問題的存在所以這個部分希望說除了說有審計部對你們提出檢討之外你們本身對這個問題的產生為什麼有這樣的現象那有了這樣的現象之後如果去協助跟解決國科會你必須有一個機制是\n\n07:06.854 --> 07:13.878\n接下來對於大南方計畫這邊就叫主委首先本席也要肯認主委在大南方計畫的目標針對AI的發展蓬勃不僅只是科技產業需要導入AI跟高科技的協助當然在本席的選區有很多傳產如果傳產的整個製程營運以及研發可以從AI的發展中得到注意本席相信說我們邁向智慧科技導這個速度會更快\n\n07:34.048 --> 08:00.813\n所以本席也十分的支持國會提出的這個推出適合於百工百業的AI應用並且來發展系統性的應用服務為百工百業來服務但是本席還是要先關心一下就是在波拉格前進基地目前的狀況那媒體有報導說我們波拉格的IC設計的基地還沒有開始營運那本席請問之後呢都是說你們是在調整方向那想要了解一下說所謂調整方向\n\n08:02.216 --> 08:07.214\n的內容跟我們到底什麼時候這個基地可以開始提供培訓服務\n\n08:08.089 --> 08:35.997\n我們因為5月剛接任的時候對這個合作的這個內容不是很清楚那再加上接下來又有捷克的那個選舉所以他們的那個政府的那個組織負責的這個人員也會有一些更替然後執行的單位包含那個大學端還有他們的政府的那個負責的這個部門之間也有一些不同的這個看法所以經過一段時間的\n\n08:37.697 --> 08:37.717\n﹑陳秀寳\n\n08:56.201 --> 08:57.702\n國會負責人才培育,我認為在年底之前應該會定案。\n\n09:19.193 --> 09:39.707\n主委的意思是說在年底之前就會有好消息其實本席一系列的這個問題都是聚焦在人才的培訓、研覽、流產以及育產所以希望說國會會這邊可以當人才培育的領頭羊既然我們看見國際的需求也了解到產業的困境那我們要輔導傳產進入智慧科技的這個領域也希望說智慧科技在台灣各產業各領域都能夠均衡的發展那延續剛剛提到的\n\n09:44.831 --> 09:52.756\n114年國科會跨部會推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系推動方案那預計在5年會投入300億元的預算分成4大領域來推動但是其實在預算說明會上面國科會並沒有對系部的計畫及預算的使用說的詳細那這麼大規模的預算我相信民眾也會想知道說國科會你們在推動這個方案的規劃及內容\n\n10:11.607 --> 10:35.649\n所以主委這個部分也要請你們多加說明因為你們只有在擴散力引人才練場域之後然後帶入展應用那其實對一般的民眾來講他們沒有辦法了解說你們講得這麼籠統到底你們是要做哪些那再來呢我要問的是說其中你們引人才的部分你們將串聯嘉義台南高雄的技職學校協助技職轉型\n\n10:36.610 --> 10:55.918\n那其中參旅、健康照護都是優先推行的目標但是學界是有疑慮了那以往國科會你們就常常被詬病說你們是重科學情人文那這一次的人才培育計畫呢是不是又有可能將大量的資源依註到注重在生技、醫學這樣的項目而忽視了參與的部分那主委那針對這個部分呢國科會你們70億這個預算你們如何運用\n\n11:04.929 --> 11:29.155\n我們其實是要協助百工百業所以不只是在科技提供的領域連需求端剛剛委員也有提到餐飲業、旅館業、休閒業等等這些其實都在我們將來要協助的範圍裡面希望能夠讓他們可以引進AI但是AI的提供端我們也會補助需求端我們也會補助\n\n11:30.075 --> 11:45.330\n現在在學界一例就是說你們有沒有一個審查的機制你們未來的資源是不是會合理的分配或者是你們只是把產業框進來但是預算資源又沒有合理分配只是偏重某些的領域不會只偏重某些領域我們會全面性的來協助\n\n11:46.671 --> 11:57.419\n謝主委,所以本席希望國科會為你們推動各項政策要落實產學溝通溝通真的非常重要尤其國科會你們這次將參與健康這個列為是AI科技推動的重點目標所以一定要針對產學合作這個需求來制定計劃才能夠創造產學雙贏的這個榮景這個部分不知道說\n\n12:11.691 --> 12:15.162\n如果你們有沒有領略到說學界他們的憂慮在哪裡?焦慮在哪裡?\n\n12:17.196 --> 12:19.178\n主要就是我剛剛講的你們不能只是把產業框進來之後你們誘導資源偏重在某些領域這樣對這些學界也是不公平的好謝謝委員提醒\n\n12:43.801 --> 12:46.607\n謝謝陳秀寳委員那主委請回再來是羅志強委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.096,"end":7.498,"text":"現在主席請吳主委有請吳主委主委好在2022年底CHAT GPT公布之後呢我們國科會這邊就有意識到說其實這個AI聊天機器人的這個文化侵略性質很強那所以也宣布我們台灣呢要自己製造自己的繁體中文語言模型也就是TED"},{"start":32.734,"end":49.167,"text":"拜登建制計劃從2023年4月底啟動之後大概一年的時間我們在今年的5月初有成果的發表本席在5月底的時候有試用過發現說其實泰德的資料庫有許多資料沒有及時的更新本席在質詢的時候主委這邊我也有詢過"},{"start":52.85,"end":54.932,"text":"國科會應該增加TIDE資料庫並設定出定期更新時程,目前辦理狀況如何定定?"},{"start":69.486,"end":97.212,"text":"我們也持續編列預算從明年開始也希望增加它的這個應用那陳委員所提到的我們在應用的時候那個訓練資料非常重要那我們現在有不同的這個管道或者資料一個就是公開的資料是免費的不需要授權的另外一種就是需要授權的資料我們也增加需要授權資料需要編列經費因為有些資料是需要授權金的"},{"start":97.332,"end":97.652,"text":"對於更新的時程,你們怎麼訂定?"},{"start":115.137,"end":126.771,"text":"資料更新是一直在持續進行的啦那現在幾個重點的推動第一個會以公部門的資料為主所以我們在年底會推出一些公部門的應用推出那包含立院達許這些系統也在規劃之中"},{"start":128.365,"end":151.05,"text":"所以是不定期的來更新資料更新本來就一直在收集我們一個團隊在國研院下面一個團隊一直在持續收集資料泰德在目前已經算是一個訓練有成果出來的階段那後續呢作為說我們泰德算是一個比較完整的資訊而且是資訊正確的一個繁體中文的語言模型那後續呢國科會這邊你們有沒有對泰德的推廣有什麼計畫跟目標我們預計跟哪些產業來合作"},{"start":157.694,"end":187.172,"text":"我們將來在智慧科技當然方產業生態系我們從事應用的時候我們也會把它用上來將來就會結合我們的產業的發展希望產業進來以後針對各行各業能夠訓練各行各業需求的這種模型再從明年的計畫開始就會陸續推動所以也就不只在現在我們的預算只能協助政府做部分的這個應用而已將來各行各業的應用才是最重要的"},{"start":187.972,"end":201.505,"text":"後續有沒有跨國的推廣合作的這些使用的計畫?如果將來使用繁體中文的系統的一些應用其他國家地區有需要的話我們當然也能夠透過我們的產業界能夠擴展到國際市場"},{"start":203.206,"end":228.984,"text":"因為這個不同於是那種開放性的就是比較open的那種AI的使用它是一個比較有選擇性的但是因為國科會我們建制的這個態的這個整個系統其實很不容易而且這也是正確的方向因為其實大家有體會到說在這個目前AI的使用上簡體字版其實對我們台灣是非常的不友善而且很多訊息是不正確的那所以說我們如果已經有"},{"start":230.845,"end":251.598,"text":"一個成果展現出來的希望可以持續的精進泰德的資料庫向世界展現說我們可以正確回答台灣相關問題的AI那這個部分也希望說我們國科會這邊除了剛才我提到的在資料庫的建置補充以及更新這個隨時的更新之外呢能夠比較積極的來推廣我們有一個正確的聲音在國際上替我們台灣來發聲"},{"start":256.761,"end":261.066,"text":"委員提醒非常重要,我們也很同意,我們希望往這個方向努力"},{"start":262.357,"end":268.643,"text":"那接下來我想請教主委其實今天也蠻多委員有針對這個問題審計部有針對我們國科會延攬人才計畫中我們博士級的這個研究人員的延攬情形提出了檢討那有指出說其中有178位的人員接受這個補助延攬已經10到22次更有123位的人員自從102年開始就接受這個延攬補助"},{"start":287.538,"end":290.281,"text":"本席覺得說其實針對延攬人才的補助我們的初衷是希望說我們這些人才在計畫結束之後呢可以轉任進學校產業或是研究機構但是像這個樣子不斷的接受延攬的狀況主委你對這個狀況你有什麼想法我覺得的確是對這些人才"},{"start":308.941,"end":336.701,"text":"來講有些不公平的地方那我們其實也已經提醒我們用人的單位在接受國會補助的時候希望能夠協助這些人才能夠做適當的生涯發展不要只是說一個聘約結束就沒有了這些人員其實他是計劃人力他不是認知他等於是非典型的勞工他對他的這樣的一份工作其實他沒有長期聘用的保證相對來說也是對他生涯發展的一個阻礙"},{"start":337.381,"end":341.503,"text":"所以希望說國科會你們要針對這樣的狀況是不是有建立一個審查排查的機制不僅只是說學術單位沒有開缺的這個問題其實產業界也是需要人才的那有人才的需求國科會更應該縫合我們的計畫的研究人才跟產業人才的這個落差讓我們這個人才可以延續上因為這些人才他們出入在哪裡他如果一直困在這些短期的研究計畫裡面他們的出入何在"},{"start":366.892,"end":367.893,"text":"主委,您對這個部分有什麼看法?"},{"start":382.16,"end":405.282,"text":"我蠻認同的我們接下來新的這一期的計畫我們會提醒申請的用人的單位如果國會補助的話我們當然是期待說我們用人單位要積極的來協助他使用的這些人才將來在生涯發展也要協助他們不要期限到就拼約結束就不管了希望他們也能夠積極協助"},{"start":407.184,"end":425.944,"text":"您也是有意識到這個問題的存在所以這個部分希望說除了說有審計部對你們提出檢討之外你們本身對這個問題的產生為什麼有這樣的現象那有了這樣的現象之後如果去協助跟解決國科會你必須有一個機制是"},{"start":426.854,"end":433.878,"text":"接下來對於大南方計畫這邊就叫主委首先本席也要肯認主委在大南方計畫的目標針對AI的發展蓬勃不僅只是科技產業需要導入AI跟高科技的協助當然在本席的選區有很多傳產如果傳產的整個製程營運以及研發可以從AI的發展中得到注意本席相信說我們邁向智慧科技導這個速度會更快"},{"start":454.048,"end":480.813,"text":"所以本席也十分的支持國會提出的這個推出適合於百工百業的AI應用並且來發展系統性的應用服務為百工百業來服務但是本席還是要先關心一下就是在波拉格前進基地目前的狀況那媒體有報導說我們波拉格的IC設計的基地還沒有開始營運那本席請問之後呢都是說你們是在調整方向那想要了解一下說所謂調整方向"},{"start":482.216,"end":487.214,"text":"的內容跟我們到底什麼時候 這個基地可以開始提供培訓服務"},{"start":488.089,"end":515.997,"text":"我們因為5月剛接任的時候對這個合作的這個內容不是很清楚那再加上接下來又有捷克的那個選舉所以他們的那個政府的那個組織負責的這個人員也會有一些更替然後執行的單位包含那個大學端還有他們的政府的那個負責的這個部門之間也有一些不同的這個看法所以經過一段時間的"},{"start":517.697,"end":517.717,"text":"﹑陳秀寳"},{"start":536.201,"end":537.702,"text":"國會負責人才培育,我認為在年底之前應該會定案。"},{"start":559.193,"end":579.707,"text":"主委的意思是說在年底之前就會有好消息其實本席一系列的這個問題都是聚焦在人才的培訓、研覽、流產以及育產所以希望說國會會這邊可以當人才培育的領頭羊既然我們看見國際的需求也了解到產業的困境那我們要輔導傳產進入智慧科技的這個領域也希望說智慧科技在台灣各產業各領域都能夠均衡的發展那延續剛剛提到的"},{"start":584.831,"end":592.756,"text":"114年國科會跨部會推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系推動方案那預計在5年會投入300億元的預算分成4大領域來推動但是其實在預算說明會上面國科會並沒有對系部的計畫及預算的使用說的詳細那這麼大規模的預算我相信民眾也會想知道說國科會你們在推動這個方案的規劃及內容"},{"start":611.607,"end":635.649,"text":"所以主委這個部分也要請你們多加說明因為你們只有在擴散力引人才練場域之後然後帶入展應用那其實對一般的民眾來講他們沒有辦法了解說你們講得這麼籠統到底你們是要做哪些那再來呢我要問的是說其中你們引人才的部分你們將串聯嘉義台南高雄的技職學校協助技職轉型"},{"start":636.61,"end":655.918,"text":"那其中參旅、健康照護都是優先推行的目標但是學界是有疑慮了那以往國科會你們就常常被詬病說你們是重科學情人文那這一次的人才培育計畫呢是不是又有可能將大量的資源依註到注重在生技、醫學這樣的項目而忽視了參與的部分那主委那針對這個部分呢國科會你們70億這個預算你們如何運用"},{"start":664.929,"end":689.155,"text":"我們其實是要協助百工百業所以不只是在科技提供的領域連需求端剛剛委員也有提到餐飲業、旅館業、休閒業等等這些其實都在我們將來要協助的範圍裡面希望能夠讓他們可以引進AI但是AI的提供端我們也會補助需求端我們也會補助"},{"start":690.075,"end":705.33,"text":"現在在學界一例就是說你們有沒有一個審查的機制你們未來的資源是不是會合理的分配或者是你們只是把產業框進來但是預算資源又沒有合理分配只是偏重某些的領域不會只偏重某些領域我們會全面性的來協助"},{"start":706.671,"end":717.419,"text":"謝主委,所以本席希望國科會為你們推動各項政策要落實產學溝通溝通真的非常重要尤其國科會你們這次將參與健康這個列為是AI科技推動的重點目標所以一定要針對產學合作這個需求來制定計劃才能夠創造產學雙贏的這個榮景這個部分不知道說"},{"start":731.691,"end":735.162,"text":"如果你們有沒有領略到說學界他們的憂慮在哪裡?焦慮在哪裡?"},{"start":737.196,"end":739.178,"text":"主要就是我剛剛講的你們不能只是把產業框進來之後你們誘導資源偏重在某些領域這樣對這些學界也是不公平的好 謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":763.801,"end":766.607,"text":"謝謝陳秀寳委員那主委請回再來是羅志強委員質詢"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:01:46 - 12:14:36","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":155012,"gazette":{"lineno":961,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（12時1分）謝謝主席，請吳主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：陳委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：主委好。主委，在2022年底ChatGPT公布之後，國科會就有意識到這個AI聊天機器人的文化侵略性質很強，所以也宣布我們臺灣要自己製造自己的繁體中文語言模型，也就是TAIDE，TAIDE建置計畫從2023年4月底啟動之後，大概經過一年的時間，在今年的5月初有舉辦成果發表，本席在5月底的時候有試用過，發現其實TAIDE的資料庫有許多資料沒有即時更新，本席在質詢的時候也有詢問過主委，也要求國科會應該要增加TAIDE的資料庫，並且設定出定期更新的時程，我想請教主委目前辦理的狀況怎樣？對於資料庫的增加，還有整個的期程，我們如何訂定？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，我們也持續編列預算，從明年開始也希望增加它的應用，誠如陳委員所提到的，我們在運用的時候，那個訓練資料非常重要，我們現在有不同的管道獲得資料，一個是公開的資料，是免費的，不需要授權的，另外一種就是需要授權的資料，我們也增加需要授權的資料，需要編列經費，因為有些資料需要授權金。"],["陳委員秀寳：主委，您的意思是說，如果有一些公開資料不需要授權的，你們會儘快把這些資料更新進去，對於需要授權、需要付費的這個部分，你們也編列預算來增加，是嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：那對於更新的時程你們怎麼訂定？"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：資料更新是一直在持續進行的，現在幾個重點的推動第一個會以公部門的資料為主，所以我們在年底會推出一些公部門的應用，包含立院答詢的這些系統也在規劃之中。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以是不定期的來更新？"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：資料更新本來就一直在蒐集，我們在國研院下面有一個團隊，他們有一直持續在蒐集資料。"],["陳委員秀寳：好。TAIDE目前已經算是訓練有成的階段，後續呢？TAIDE雖然是一個資訊正確的繁體中文語言模型，那後續國科會這邊有沒有對TAIDE的推廣有什麼計畫跟目標？我們預計跟哪些產業合作？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們將來在智慧科技大南方產業生態系從事應用的時候，我們也會把它用上來。將來我們會結合產業的發展，希望產業進來以後，能夠針對各行各業、訓練各行各業有這種需求模型，我們會從明年的計畫開始陸續的推動，所以我們的預算不只能協助政府做這部分的應用，將來各行各業的應用才是最重要的。"],["陳委員秀寳：後續呢？後續有沒有跨國的推廣、合作的使用計畫？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果將來繁體中文系統的使用和應用，其他國家、地區有需要的話，我們當然就能透過我們的產業界擴展到國際市場。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為這個不同於那種開放性的，就是比較open的AI使用，它是比較有選擇性的。其實國科會建置TAIDE這個系統很不容易，而且這也是正確的方向，其實大家都有體會到，目前在AI的使用上，其實簡體字版對我們臺灣是非常的不友善，而且很多訊息都是不正確的，所以說，如果我們能夠有一個成果展現出來，希望可以持續的精進TAIDE的資料庫，向世界展現我們有可以正確回答臺灣相關問題的AI，這個部分也希望國科會這邊除了我剛才提到的資料庫建置、補充，以及隨時更新之外，也能夠積極的來推廣，我們要有一個正確的聲音來替我們臺灣在國際上發聲。"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員的提醒非常重要，我們也很同意，我們希望往這個方向來努力。"],["陳委員秀寳：好。接下來我想請教主委，其實今天也有滿多的委員針對這個問題。審計部有針對國科會的延攬人才計畫中的博士級研究人員的延攬情形提出檢討且指出，其中有178位的人員接受補助延攬已經達10到22次，更有123位的人員是從102年開始就接受延攬補助。本席覺得，針對延攬人才的補助，我們的初衷是希望這些人才在計畫結束之後，可以轉任進學校、產業或是研究機構，但是像這樣不斷地接受延攬的狀況，主委，你對這個狀況有什麼想法跟方法？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我覺得這的確對這些人才來講有些不公平的地方，其實我們已經有提醒用人的單位在接受國科會的補助時，希望他們能夠協助這些人才來做適當的生涯發展，不要一個聘約結束就沒有。"],["陳委員秀寳：對，本席要指出的就是，其實這些人員是計畫人力，他們不是任職，他們等於是非典型勞工，其實這樣一份工作對他們是沒有長期聘用的保證，相對來說，這也是對他們生涯發展的阻礙，希望國科會能夠針對這樣的狀況建立審查、排查的機制，而不僅是學術單位沒有開缺的問題，其實產業界也是需要人才的，既然有人才的需求，國科會更應該縫合計畫的研究人才跟產業人才的落差，讓這個人才可以延續上，因為這些人才的出路在哪裡？如果他們一直困在這些短期的研究計畫裡面，他們的出路何在？這個部分國科會是不是能更積極面對產業和學界的需求，把人才做適度的協助和投入？主委，你現在對這個部分有什麼看法？"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員！我們認同，接下來新一期的計畫，我們會提醒申請用人的單位，如果國科會有補助的話，我們當然是期待用人的單位能夠積極的來協助他們使用的這些人才，而將來的生涯發展也要協助他們，不要期限到了、聘約結束了就不管了，希望他們也能夠積極協助。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝主委啦！你也是有意識到這個問題的存在，所以希望這個部分，除了審計部有對你們提出檢討之外，你們本身對這個問題的產生，就是為什麼會有這樣的現象？有了這樣的現象之後，你們要如何去協助跟解決？國科會必須要有一個機制。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：接下來我要針對大南方計畫來就教主委，首先，本席要肯認主委在大南方計畫的目標，針對AI的蓬勃發展，不僅是科技產業需要導入AI跟高科技的協助，在本席的選區有很多傳產，如果傳產整個製程、營運以及研發可以從AI的發展中得到助益，本席相信我們邁向智慧科技島的速度就會更快，所以本席也十分支持國科會提出並推出適合百工百業的AI應用，並且發展系統性的應用來為百工百業服務。但是本席還是要先關心一下布拉格IC設計基地的狀況，媒體有報導，我們布拉格的IC設計基地還沒有開始營運，本席詢問之後，你們說你們還在調整方向，我想要瞭解一下，所謂的「調整方向」的內容跟到底這個基地何時才能開始提供培訓服務？"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為我們5月剛接任的時候，我們對合作的內容還不是很清楚，加上接下來捷克又有選舉，所以他們政府的組織、負責的人員也會有一些更替，然後執行的單位，包含大學端和政府負責部門之間也有一些不同的看法，所以經過一段時間的溝通和協調，現在已經慢慢的在釐清可行的合作方案。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以我們還沒有辦法知道什麼時候可以提供培訓服務？甚至什麼時候可以有第一批的人才到臺灣來做進一步的學習？"],["吳主任委員誠文：其實服務已經開始了，因為學界之間的互動本來就不會因為政治……"],["陳委員秀寳：一直都有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是政府間的看法不一樣，就是捷克政府跟我們這邊因為還牽涉到外交部，「臺捷韌性計畫」牽涉到好幾個部會，現在國科會負責的是人才培育的部分，我們現在已經跟他們溝通到一個程度，我認為年底之前應該會定案。"],["陳委員秀寳：主委的意思是年底之前就會有好消息？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，應該會定案。"],["陳委員秀寳：其實本席一系列的問題都是聚焦在人才的培訓、延攬、留才及育才，我希望國科會可以當人才培育的領頭羊，既然我們看見國際的需求，也瞭解產業的困境，我們要輔導傳產進入智慧科技這個領域，也希望智慧科技在臺灣各產業、各領域都能夠有均衡的發展。","延續剛剛提到的，114年國科會跨部會推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系推動方案，預計5年要投入300億元的預算，並且將分四大領域來推動，但是在預算說明會上，國科會並沒有對細部的計畫及預算的使用詳細說明，這麼大規模的預算，我相信民眾也會想要知道國科會要推動的這個方案的規劃和內容，所以主委，這個部分要請你們多加說明，因為你們只有在「擴算力、引人才、鏈場域」之後帶入「展應用」，其實這對一般民眾來講，他們沒有辦法瞭解，因為你們講的那麼籠統，到底你們是要做哪些？","再來我要問的是，其中「引人才」的部分，你們將串連嘉義、臺南、高雄的技職學校來協助技職轉型，其中餐旅和健康照護都是優先推行的目標，但是學界對此是有疑慮的，以往國科會就常常被人垢病你們是「重科學、輕人文」，這一次的人才培育計畫是不是又有可能將大量的資源挹注在生技、醫學這樣的項目，而忽略、忽視了餐旅的部分？主委，針對這個部分，國科會70億元的預算你們要如何運用？"],["吳主任委員誠文：其實我們是要協助百工百業，所以不只是科技領域，連需求端，剛剛委員也有提到餐飲業、旅館業、休閒業等等，其實這些都在將來我們要協助的範圍裡面，我們希望能夠讓他們引進AI，但是AI的提供端我們也會補助，需求端我們也會補助。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為現在學界一律都是說你們沒有審查的機制，未來你們的資源是不是會合理的分配？或者你們只是把產業匡進來，但是預算資源又沒有合理的分配，只是偏重在某些領域？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們不會只偏重某些領域，我們會全面性的來協助。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝主委！本席希望國科會在推動各項政策時要落實產學溝通，溝通真的非常重要，尤其國科會這次將餐旅、健康列為AI科技推動的重點目標，所以你們一定要針對產學合作這個需求來制定計畫，這樣才能夠創造產學雙贏的榮景，這個部分，不知道主委有沒有領略到學界的憂慮在哪裡？焦慮在哪裡？"],["吳主任委員誠文：他們焦慮在覺得可能被排除在外，但是我們不會，我們會公開、公平、公正的徵求計畫，不會有特定族群被排除在外。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝主委！主要就是我剛剛講的，你們不能只把產業匡進來之後，你們又把資源偏重在某些領域，這樣對這些學界也是不公平的。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，以上，謝謝！"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝陳秀寳委員，主委請回。","再來是羅智強委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}