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302.327, \"text\": \"我知道你剛剛講100人嘛所以你現在78你是鼓勵他再繼續用聘用人員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 297.386, \"end\": 297.507, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 297.507, \"end\": 297.647, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 297.647, \"end\": 298.35, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 298.35, \"end\": 299.154, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 299.154, \"end\": 299.335, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 299.335, \"end\": 299.636, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 299.636, \"end\": 299.756, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 299.756, \"end\": 300.098, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 300.098, \"end\": 300.218, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 300.218, \"end\": 300.459, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 300.459, \"end\": 300.56, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 300.56, \"end\": 300.741, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"鼓\", \"start\": 300.741, \"end\": 301.062, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 301.062, \"end\": 301.404, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 301.404, \"end\": 301.886, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 301.886, \"end\": 302.066, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"聘\", \"start\": 302.066, \"end\": 302.167, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 302.167, \"end\": 302.307, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 302.307, \"end\": 302.327, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 304.262, \"end\": 328.979, \"text\": \"委員長這不好笑啊本席很認真在跟你討論這個問題就在於是說以人事的角度宏觀來講各部會如果說你這樣子可以放寬你甚至你剛剛的這個態度好像在鼓勵速發部說快一點你們七十八人而已還有二十二個那如果說這樣的話那你不就打擊一般公務員的士氣嗎那還有其他部會可以講啊我說我速發部很重要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 304.262, \"end\": 305.203, 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{\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 512.734, \"end\": 513.155, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 513.155, \"end\": 513.195, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 513.195, \"end\": 513.295, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 513.295, \"end\": 513.315, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 513.315, \"end\": 513.335, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,268 --> 00:00:32,316\n主席謝謝麻煩請蘇人事長請蘇人事長侯委員好好人事長好人事長那個針對我們人事總處的組織法寫得很清楚就機關員額的管理規劃督導的相關事項那人事長您在這一個法定職責上來講有沒有去好好的督促我們每一個機關用這個機關員額的一個管理規劃\n\n2\n00:00:35,612 --> 00:00:51,333\n我們每兩年都會做顏額的評鑑透過這個顏額評鑑來瞭解哪些顏額是不合理的使用我們也會做回收的動作是哪些顏額會做回收那哪些顏額有可能真的有要增加\n\n3\n00:00:52,394 --> 00:00:52,755\n其實這本席認同\n\n4\n00:01:20,138 --> 00:01:24,481\n對於聘用人員的限制,規定是要以所任工作非本機關現有人員所能擔任者為限。\n\n5\n00:01:43,072 --> 00:02:07,954\n所以這個人數也有原額的限制不能超過5%這個是天條還是有例外也有例外啦就是他如果落在他的組織法裡面有寫的話就有例外有些部會像國科會像數位部國科會還有應安會這一些都有\n\n6\n00:02:10,707 --> 00:02:11,447\n社工也有突破\n\n7\n00:02:39,947 --> 00:02:51,818\n應該他的緣額來講是21位的聘用人員但農業部的公務預算編了27位多出了將近20%有基金預算編了4個人然後農業部的公務預算編了27人這個是這個\n\n8\n00:03:00,256 --> 00:03:02,478\n副副副副副副副副副副副\n\n9\n00:03:27,683 --> 00:03:54,799\n我跟委員報告一下數發部的因為他整個就在組織法裡面直接就落下他有100個聘用人員的一般來講是一個整體的概念是5%可是少數機關像我剛才跟委員報告的數位部啦數發部國科會應安會這一種他直接落在組織法裡面一個教訓受理的運用就是說數發部到目前他們正式員額是不是還沒有用滿\n\n10\n00:03:56,412 --> 00:04:24,250\n還沒有用滿還沒有用滿那對於數發部如果說一開始我們講數位發展部一開始剛創立剛成立的時候我們也對他高度期待我們也認為是說有一些數位的人才確實他可能沒有辦法不受這個公務員的一個這個任用資格所以事實那個時候是有給他比較寬鬆的部分那但是數發部也已經成立多久了兩年多快三年嘛對啊那如果說這樣子\n\n11\n00:04:25,953 --> 00:04:54,382\n您認不認為說整個中央政府部會的一個人事任用還是要以正軌來講就是我們中央政府的這個人員還是以公務正式的公務人員為主那聘用人員為輔嘛那但是到目前為止速發部已經成立兩年多快三年了他正式公務人員沒有編滿沒有用滿但是他的聘用人員持續超標他變成是說已經是十幾趴啦聘用人員也沒有用滿喔\n\n12\n00:04:57,386 --> 00:05:02,327\n我知道你剛剛講100人嘛所以你現在78你是鼓勵他再繼續用聘用人員\n\n13\n00:05:04,262 --> 00:05:28,979\n委員長這不好笑啊本席很認真在跟你討論這個問題就在於是說以人事的角度宏觀來講各部會如果說你這樣子可以放寬你甚至你剛剛的這個態度好像在鼓勵速發部說快一點你們七十八人而已還有二十二個那如果說這樣的話那你不就打擊一般公務員的士氣嗎那還有其他部會可以講啊我說我速發部很重要\n\n14\n00:05:30,179 --> 00:05:49,332\n教育部教育部也覺得說我專任老師很重要那其他經濟部我這個經濟趨勢發展很重要那到最後大家都不需要公務人員啊我用聘用就好啦那是不是就看誰比較大聲或是說誰可以比較有佔據可以去要求去請出\n\n15\n00:05:51,041 --> 00:06:07,533\n所以我在拉回來講的是說是不是應該還是要督促他們以正式公務人員而且我相信以中華民國公務人員的素質以及優秀程度來講他能夠考得上公務人員他當然對於這個新科技新技術可以有一些了解\n\n16\n00:06:09,415 --> 00:06:33,773\n我剛才在笑的原因就是因為數碼部尤其治安署那裡我很清楚他們本來是要用業聘的那業聘是比較好用嘛可以馬上集戰力嘛結果後來他們用進來以後馬上就被銀行外面每一個人一個月加一兩萬全部挖了很多人走等於就是數位部治安署幫他們認證後來他們又把業聘的要轉成正職\n\n17\n00:06:37,876 --> 00:07:07,459\n他自己就發現說用業聘的他的代議他講不過外面所以他們又有提一個計畫在轉正職所以很多東西就剛開始規範的時候是有一個延額可是他實際目前我們了解整個樹花部整個部位大概有80幾%的倒值率還有大概15%以上還沒有倒值所以他倒值也不如意是不是不如預期壓力比較大吧\n\n18\n00:07:09,258 --> 00:07:17,385\n國人對於速發部的期待絕對不止於此你說過去這幾年的詐騙速發部沒有責任嗎你說過去這幾年的相關的這一些技術的進步速發部沒有責任嗎那速發部每一次到現在到目前為止你說兩三年過去了給國人留下什麼印象就一個點面線的系統\n\n19\n00:07:38,493 --> 00:07:39,974\n公務同仁一視同仁這是中央政府的一個基石不是嗎?\n\n20\n00:08:03,132 --> 00:08:31,953\n所以既然速發部他一直有這樣的狀況正式的公務員都沒有辦法補滿那他到底是他有沒有積極的去找有沒有積極的鼓勵其他優秀的公務人員他可以來速發部來報效國家而不是說他們沒有去做這樣的部分然後又持續放任他用聘用人員這個部分應該才是人事總處再去檢討的地方我們會跟速發部再一起討論看看有沒有哪些需要我們協助的地方\n\n21\n00:08:32,253 --> 00:08:33,335\n討論後有相關內容提供洪委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6268\t32316\t主席謝謝麻煩請蘇人事長請蘇人事長侯委員好好人事長好人事長那個針對我們人事總處的組織法寫得很清楚就機關員額的管理規劃督導的相關事項那人事長您在這一個法定職責上來講有沒有去好好的督促我們每一個機關用這個機關員額的一個管理規劃\n35612\t51333\t我們每兩年都會做顏額的評鑑透過這個顏額評鑑來瞭解哪些顏額是不合理的使用我們也會做回收的動作是哪些顏額會做回收那哪些顏額有可能真的有要增加\n52394\t52755\t其實這本席認同\n80138\t84481\t對於聘用人員的限制,規定是要以所任工作非本機關現有人員所能擔任者為限。\n103072\t127954\t所以這個人數也有原額的限制不能超過5%這個是天條還是有例外也有例外啦就是他如果落在他的組織法裡面有寫的話就有例外有些部會像國科會像數位部國科會還有應安會這一些都有\n130707\t131447\t社工也有突破\n159947\t171818\t應該他的緣額來講是21位的聘用人員但農業部的公務預算編了27位多出了將近20%有基金預算編了4個人然後農業部的公務預算編了27人這個是這個\n180256\t182478\t副副副副副副副副副副副\n207683\t234799\t我跟委員報告一下數發部的因為他整個就在組織法裡面直接就落下他有100個聘用人員的一般來講是一個整體的概念是5%可是少數機關像我剛才跟委員報告的數位部啦數發部國科會應安會這一種他直接落在組織法裡面一個教訓受理的運用就是說數發部到目前他們正式員額是不是還沒有用滿\n236412\t264250\t還沒有用滿還沒有用滿那對於數發部如果說一開始我們講數位發展部一開始剛創立剛成立的時候我們也對他高度期待我們也認為是說有一些數位的人才確實他可能沒有辦法不受這個公務員的一個這個任用資格所以事實那個時候是有給他比較寬鬆的部分那但是數發部也已經成立多久了兩年多快三年嘛對啊那如果說這樣子\n265953\t294382\t您認不認為說整個中央政府部會的一個人事任用還是要以正軌來講就是我們中央政府的這個人員還是以公務正式的公務人員為主那聘用人員為輔嘛那但是到目前為止速發部已經成立兩年多快三年了他正式公務人員沒有編滿沒有用滿但是他的聘用人員持續超標他變成是說已經是十幾趴啦聘用人員也沒有用滿喔\n297386\t302327\t我知道你剛剛講100人嘛所以你現在78你是鼓勵他再繼續用聘用人員\n304262\t328979\t委員長這不好笑啊本席很認真在跟你討論這個問題就在於是說以人事的角度宏觀來講各部會如果說你這樣子可以放寬你甚至你剛剛的這個態度好像在鼓勵速發部說快一點你們七十八人而已還有二十二個那如果說這樣的話那你不就打擊一般公務員的士氣嗎那還有其他部會可以講啊我說我速發部很重要\n330179\t349332\t教育部 教育部也覺得說我專任老師很重要那其他經濟部我這個經濟趨勢發展很重要那到最後大家都不需要公務人員啊我用聘用就好啦那是不是就看誰比較大聲或是說誰可以比較有佔據可以去要求 去請出\n351041\t367533\t所以我在拉回來講的是說是不是應該還是要督促他們以正式公務人員而且我相信以中華民國公務人員的素質以及優秀程度來講他能夠考得上公務人員他當然對於這個新科技新技術可以有一些了解\n369415\t393773\t我剛才在笑的原因就是因為數碼部尤其治安署那裡我很清楚他們本來是要用業聘的那業聘是比較好用嘛可以馬上集戰力嘛結果後來他們用進來以後馬上就被銀行外面每一個人一個月加一兩萬全部挖了很多人走等於就是數位部治安署幫他們認證後來他們又把業聘的要轉成正職\n397876\t427459\t他自己就發現說用業聘的他的代議他講不過外面所以他們又有提一個計畫在轉正職所以很多東西就剛開始規範的時候是有一個延額可是他實際目前我們了解整個樹花部整個部位大概有80幾%的倒值率還有大概15%以上還沒有倒值所以他倒值也不如意是不是不如預期壓力比較大吧\n429258\t437385\t國人對於速發部的期待絕對不止於此你說過去這幾年的詐騙速發部沒有責任嗎你說過去這幾年的相關的這一些技術的進步速發部沒有責任嗎那速發部每一次到現在到目前為止你說兩三年過去了給國人留下什麼印象就一個點面線的系統\n458493\t459974\t公務同仁一視同仁這是中央政府的一個基石不是嗎?\n483132\t511953\t所以既然速發部他一直有這樣的狀況正式的公務員都沒有辦法補滿那他到底是他有沒有積極的去找有沒有積極的鼓勵其他優秀的公務人員他可以來速發部來報效國家而不是說他們沒有去做這樣的部分然後又持續放任他用聘用人員這個部分應該才是人事總處再去檢討的地方我們會跟速發部再一起討論看看有沒有哪些需要我們協助的地方\n512253\t513335\t討論後有相關內容提供洪委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請蘇人事長請蘇人事長侯委員好好人事長好人事長那個針對我們人事總處的組織法寫得很清楚就機關員額的管理規劃督導的相關事項那人事長您在這一個法定職責上來講有沒有去好好的督促我們每一個機關用這個機關員額的一個管理規劃\n我們每兩年都會做顏額的評鑑透過這個顏額評鑑來瞭解哪些顏額是不合理的使用我們也會做回收的動作是哪些顏額會做回收那哪些顏額有可能真的有要增加\n其實這本席認同\n對於聘用人員的限制,規定是要以所任工作非本機關現有人員所能擔任者為限。\n所以這個人數也有原額的限制不能超過5%這個是天條還是有例外也有例外啦就是他如果落在他的組織法裡面有寫的話就有例外有些部會像國科會像數位部國科會還有應安會這一些都有\n社工也有突破\n應該他的緣額來講是21位的聘用人員但農業部的公務預算編了27位多出了將近20%有基金預算編了4個人然後農業部的公務預算編了27人這個是這個\n副副副副副副副副副副副\n我跟委員報告一下數發部的因為他整個就在組織法裡面直接就落下他有100個聘用人員的一般來講是一個整體的概念是5%可是少數機關像我剛才跟委員報告的數位部啦數發部國科會應安會這一種他直接落在組織法裡面一個教訓受理的運用就是說數發部到目前他們正式員額是不是還沒有用滿\n還沒有用滿還沒有用滿那對於數發部如果說一開始我們講數位發展部一開始剛創立剛成立的時候我們也對他高度期待我們也認為是說有一些數位的人才確實他可能沒有辦法不受這個公務員的一個這個任用資格所以事實那個時候是有給他比較寬鬆的部分那但是數發部也已經成立多久了兩年多快三年嘛對啊那如果說這樣子\n您認不認為說整個中央政府部會的一個人事任用還是要以正軌來講就是我們中央政府的這個人員還是以公務正式的公務人員為主那聘用人員為輔嘛那但是到目前為止速發部已經成立兩年多快三年了他正式公務人員沒有編滿沒有用滿但是他的聘用人員持續超標他變成是說已經是十幾趴啦聘用人員也沒有用滿喔\n我知道你剛剛講100人嘛所以你現在78你是鼓勵他再繼續用聘用人員\n委員長這不好笑啊本席很認真在跟你討論這個問題就在於是說以人事的角度宏觀來講各部會如果說你這樣子可以放寬你甚至你剛剛的這個態度好像在鼓勵速發部說快一點你們七十八人而已還有二十二個那如果說這樣的話那你不就打擊一般公務員的士氣嗎那還有其他部會可以講啊我說我速發部很重要\n教育部 教育部也覺得說我專任老師很重要那其他經濟部我這個經濟趨勢發展很重要那到最後大家都不需要公務人員啊我用聘用就好啦那是不是就看誰比較大聲或是說誰可以比較有佔據可以去要求 去請出\n所以我在拉回來講的是說是不是應該還是要督促他們以正式公務人員而且我相信以中華民國公務人員的素質以及優秀程度來講他能夠考得上公務人員他當然對於這個新科技新技術可以有一些了解\n我剛才在笑的原因就是因為數碼部尤其治安署那裡我很清楚他們本來是要用業聘的那業聘是比較好用嘛可以馬上集戰力嘛結果後來他們用進來以後馬上就被銀行外面每一個人一個月加一兩萬全部挖了很多人走等於就是數位部治安署幫他們認證後來他們又把業聘的要轉成正職\n他自己就發現說用業聘的他的代議他講不過外面所以他們又有提一個計畫在轉正職所以很多東西就剛開始規範的時候是有一個延額可是他實際目前我們了解整個樹花部整個部位大概有80幾%的倒值率還有大概15%以上還沒有倒值所以他倒值也不如意是不是不如預期壓力比較大吧\n國人對於速發部的期待絕對不止於此你說過去這幾年的詐騙速發部沒有責任嗎你說過去這幾年的相關的這一些技術的進步速發部沒有責任嗎那速發部每一次到現在到目前為止你說兩三年過去了給國人留下什麼印象就一個點面線的系統\n公務同仁一視同仁這是中央政府的一個基石不是嗎?\n所以既然速發部他一直有這樣的狀況正式的公務員都沒有辦法補滿那他到底是他有沒有積極的去找有沒有積極的鼓勵其他優秀的公務人員他可以來速發部來報效國家而不是說他們沒有去做這樣的部分然後又持續放任他用聘用人員這個部分應該才是人事總處再去檢討的地方我們會跟速發部再一起討論看看有沒有哪些需要我們協助的地方\n討論後有相關內容提供洪委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.268 --> 00:32.316\n主席謝謝麻煩請蘇人事長請蘇人事長侯委員好好人事長好人事長那個針對我們人事總處的組織法寫得很清楚就機關員額的管理規劃督導的相關事項那人事長您在這一個法定職責上來講有沒有去好好的督促我們每一個機關用這個機關員額的一個管理規劃\n\n00:35.612 --> 00:51.333\n我們每兩年都會做顏額的評鑑透過這個顏額評鑑來瞭解哪些顏額是不合理的使用我們也會做回收的動作是哪些顏額會做回收那哪些顏額有可能真的有要增加\n\n00:52.394 --> 00:52.755\n其實這本席認同\n\n01:20.138 --> 01:24.481\n對於聘用人員的限制,規定是要以所任工作非本機關現有人員所能擔任者為限。\n\n01:43.072 --> 02:07.954\n所以這個人數也有原額的限制不能超過5%這個是天條還是有例外也有例外啦就是他如果落在他的組織法裡面有寫的話就有例外有些部會像國科會像數位部國科會還有應安會這一些都有\n\n02:10.707 --> 02:11.447\n社工也有突破\n\n02:39.947 --> 02:51.818\n應該他的緣額來講是21位的聘用人員但農業部的公務預算編了27位多出了將近20%有基金預算編了4個人然後農業部的公務預算編了27人這個是這個\n\n03:00.256 --> 03:02.478\n副副副副副副副副副副副\n\n03:27.683 --> 03:54.799\n我跟委員報告一下數發部的因為他整個就在組織法裡面直接就落下他有100個聘用人員的一般來講是一個整體的概念是5%可是少數機關像我剛才跟委員報告的數位部啦數發部國科會應安會這一種他直接落在組織法裡面一個教訓受理的運用就是說數發部到目前他們正式員額是不是還沒有用滿\n\n03:56.412 --> 04:24.250\n還沒有用滿還沒有用滿那對於數發部如果說一開始我們講數位發展部一開始剛創立剛成立的時候我們也對他高度期待我們也認為是說有一些數位的人才確實他可能沒有辦法不受這個公務員的一個這個任用資格所以事實那個時候是有給他比較寬鬆的部分那但是數發部也已經成立多久了兩年多快三年嘛對啊那如果說這樣子\n\n04:25.953 --> 04:54.382\n您認不認為說整個中央政府部會的一個人事任用還是要以正軌來講就是我們中央政府的這個人員還是以公務正式的公務人員為主那聘用人員為輔嘛那但是到目前為止速發部已經成立兩年多快三年了他正式公務人員沒有編滿沒有用滿但是他的聘用人員持續超標他變成是說已經是十幾趴啦聘用人員也沒有用滿喔\n\n04:57.386 --> 05:02.327\n我知道你剛剛講100人嘛所以你現在78你是鼓勵他再繼續用聘用人員\n\n05:04.262 --> 05:28.979\n委員長這不好笑啊本席很認真在跟你討論這個問題就在於是說以人事的角度宏觀來講各部會如果說你這樣子可以放寬你甚至你剛剛的這個態度好像在鼓勵速發部說快一點你們七十八人而已還有二十二個那如果說這樣的話那你不就打擊一般公務員的士氣嗎那還有其他部會可以講啊我說我速發部很重要\n\n05:30.179 --> 05:49.332\n教育部教育部也覺得說我專任老師很重要那其他經濟部我這個經濟趨勢發展很重要那到最後大家都不需要公務人員啊我用聘用就好啦那是不是就看誰比較大聲或是說誰可以比較有佔據可以去要求去請出\n\n05:51.041 --> 06:07.533\n所以我在拉回來講的是說是不是應該還是要督促他們以正式公務人員而且我相信以中華民國公務人員的素質以及優秀程度來講他能夠考得上公務人員他當然對於這個新科技新技術可以有一些了解\n\n06:09.415 --> 06:33.773\n我剛才在笑的原因就是因為數碼部尤其治安署那裡我很清楚他們本來是要用業聘的那業聘是比較好用嘛可以馬上集戰力嘛結果後來他們用進來以後馬上就被銀行外面每一個人一個月加一兩萬全部挖了很多人走等於就是數位部治安署幫他們認證後來他們又把業聘的要轉成正職\n\n06:37.876 --> 07:07.459\n他自己就發現說用業聘的他的代議他講不過外面所以他們又有提一個計畫在轉正職所以很多東西就剛開始規範的時候是有一個延額可是他實際目前我們了解整個樹花部整個部位大概有80幾%的倒值率還有大概15%以上還沒有倒值所以他倒值也不如意是不是不如預期壓力比較大吧\n\n07:09.258 --> 07:17.385\n國人對於速發部的期待絕對不止於此你說過去這幾年的詐騙速發部沒有責任嗎你說過去這幾年的相關的這一些技術的進步速發部沒有責任嗎那速發部每一次到現在到目前為止你說兩三年過去了給國人留下什麼印象就一個點面線的系統\n\n07:38.493 --> 07:39.974\n公務同仁一視同仁這是中央政府的一個基石不是嗎?\n\n08:03.132 --> 08:31.953\n所以既然速發部他一直有這樣的狀況正式的公務員都沒有辦法補滿那他到底是他有沒有積極的去找有沒有積極的鼓勵其他優秀的公務人員他可以來速發部來報效國家而不是說他們沒有去做這樣的部分然後又持續放任他用聘用人員這個部分應該才是人事總處再去檢討的地方我們會跟速發部再一起討論看看有沒有哪些需要我們協助的地方\n\n08:32.253 --> 08:33.335\n討論後有相關內容提供洪委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.268,"end":32.316,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請蘇人事長請蘇人事長侯委員好好人事長好人事長那個針對我們人事總處的組織法寫得很清楚就機關員額的管理規劃督導的相關事項那人事長您在這一個法定職責上來講有沒有去好好的督促我們每一個機關用這個機關員額的一個管理規劃"},{"start":35.612,"end":51.333,"text":"我們每兩年都會做顏額的評鑑透過這個顏額評鑑來瞭解哪些顏額是不合理的使用我們也會做回收的動作是哪些顏額會做回收那哪些顏額有可能真的有要增加"},{"start":52.394,"end":52.755,"text":"其實這本席認同"},{"start":80.138,"end":84.481,"text":"對於聘用人員的限制,規定是要以所任工作非本機關現有人員所能擔任者為限。"},{"start":103.072,"end":127.954,"text":"所以這個人數也有原額的限制不能超過5%這個是天條還是有例外也有例外啦就是他如果落在他的組織法裡面有寫的話就有例外有些部會像國科會像數位部國科會還有應安會這一些都有"},{"start":130.707,"end":131.447,"text":"社工也有突破"},{"start":159.947,"end":171.818,"text":"應該他的緣額來講是21位的聘用人員但農業部的公務預算編了27位多出了將近20%有基金預算編了4個人然後農業部的公務預算編了27人這個是這個"},{"start":180.256,"end":182.478,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":207.683,"end":234.799,"text":"我跟委員報告一下數發部的因為他整個就在組織法裡面直接就落下他有100個聘用人員的一般來講是一個整體的概念是5%可是少數機關像我剛才跟委員報告的數位部啦數發部國科會應安會這一種他直接落在組織法裡面一個教訓受理的運用就是說數發部到目前他們正式員額是不是還沒有用滿"},{"start":236.412,"end":264.25,"text":"還沒有用滿還沒有用滿那對於數發部如果說一開始我們講數位發展部一開始剛創立剛成立的時候我們也對他高度期待我們也認為是說有一些數位的人才確實他可能沒有辦法不受這個公務員的一個這個任用資格所以事實那個時候是有給他比較寬鬆的部分那但是數發部也已經成立多久了兩年多快三年嘛對啊那如果說這樣子"},{"start":265.953,"end":294.382,"text":"您認不認為說整個中央政府部會的一個人事任用還是要以正軌來講就是我們中央政府的這個人員還是以公務正式的公務人員為主那聘用人員為輔嘛那但是到目前為止速發部已經成立兩年多快三年了他正式公務人員沒有編滿沒有用滿但是他的聘用人員持續超標他變成是說已經是十幾趴啦聘用人員也沒有用滿喔"},{"start":297.386,"end":302.327,"text":"我知道你剛剛講100人嘛所以你現在78你是鼓勵他再繼續用聘用人員"},{"start":304.262,"end":328.979,"text":"委員長這不好笑啊本席很認真在跟你討論這個問題就在於是說以人事的角度宏觀來講各部會如果說你這樣子可以放寬你甚至你剛剛的這個態度好像在鼓勵速發部說快一點你們七十八人而已還有二十二個那如果說這樣的話那你不就打擊一般公務員的士氣嗎那還有其他部會可以講啊我說我速發部很重要"},{"start":330.179,"end":349.332,"text":"教育部 教育部也覺得說我專任老師很重要那其他經濟部我這個經濟趨勢發展很重要那到最後大家都不需要公務人員啊我用聘用就好啦那是不是就看誰比較大聲或是說誰可以比較有佔據可以去要求 去請出"},{"start":351.041,"end":367.533,"text":"所以我在拉回來講的是說是不是應該還是要督促他們以正式公務人員而且我相信以中華民國公務人員的素質以及優秀程度來講他能夠考得上公務人員他當然對於這個新科技新技術可以有一些了解"},{"start":369.415,"end":393.773,"text":"我剛才在笑的原因就是因為數碼部尤其治安署那裡我很清楚他們本來是要用業聘的那業聘是比較好用嘛可以馬上集戰力嘛結果後來他們用進來以後馬上就被銀行外面每一個人一個月加一兩萬全部挖了很多人走等於就是數位部治安署幫他們認證後來他們又把業聘的要轉成正職"},{"start":397.876,"end":427.459,"text":"他自己就發現說用業聘的他的代議他講不過外面所以他們又有提一個計畫在轉正職所以很多東西就剛開始規範的時候是有一個延額可是他實際目前我們了解整個樹花部整個部位大概有80幾%的倒值率還有大概15%以上還沒有倒值所以他倒值也不如意是不是不如預期壓力比較大吧"},{"start":429.258,"end":437.385,"text":"國人對於速發部的期待絕對不止於此你說過去這幾年的詐騙速發部沒有責任嗎你說過去這幾年的相關的這一些技術的進步速發部沒有責任嗎那速發部每一次到現在到目前為止你說兩三年過去了給國人留下什麼印象就一個點面線的系統"},{"start":458.493,"end":459.974,"text":"公務同仁一視同仁這是中央政府的一個基石不是嗎?"},{"start":483.132,"end":511.953,"text":"所以既然速發部他一直有這樣的狀況正式的公務員都沒有辦法補滿那他到底是他有沒有積極的去找有沒有積極的鼓勵其他優秀的公務人員他可以來速發部來報效國家而不是說他們沒有去做這樣的部分然後又持續放任他用聘用人員這個部分應該才是人事總處再去檢討的地方我們會跟速發部再一起討論看看有沒有哪些需要我們協助的地方"},{"start":512.253,"end":513.335,"text":"討論後有相關內容提供洪委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-36-2","title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:13:51 - 12:22:37","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155017,"gazette":{"lineno":904,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時13分）謝謝主席，麻煩請蘇人事長。"],["主席：請蘇人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：人事長好。人事總處的組織法寫得很清楚，就是主責機關員額的管理、規劃、督導等相關事項，人事長，就這一個法定職責來講，您有沒有透過機關員額的管理、規劃去好好的督促每一個機關？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們每兩年都會做員額的評鑑，透過這個員額評鑑來了解哪些員額是不合理的使用，我們也會做回收的動作。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，哪些員額會做回收，哪些員額真的有需要增加也要適時地增加，當然這很難啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：當然，當然會增加，該增加的就增加，不過針對輔助人力的部分，我們會做減法的思考，因為現在整個資訊科技的數位發展，還有人工智慧，就是輔助的部分，我們也一直用減法的角度，反而一些新興的、為民服務的業務，我們是用加法，有增有減啦。"],["洪委員孟楷：ok。其實這個本席認同，就是有一些例行業務或者是紙上作業，如果能夠用新的科技來取代，讓人力不要浪費，那麼釋出的人力就可以來做更有效的運用嘛。但其中另外一個部分就是針對聘用人員的限制，現行規定是要所任工作非本機關現有人員所能擔任者為限，對不對？所以這個人數也有員額的限制，不超過……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有有有，不能超過5。"],["洪委員孟楷：不能超過5？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，不能超過5。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個是天條還是有例外？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：也有例外，就是如果在它的組織法裡面有寫的話，就有例外，有些部會像數位部、國科會還有運安會這些都有，還有一些是社工，社工也有突破這個規定，因為社工本來我們也是限5，後來發現很多地方政府的社工就碰到這個天花板，它沒有辦法找更多的社工來執行這一項業務……"],["洪委員孟楷：地方政府如果是第一線為民服務可能有需要，當然有一些彈性的調整空間，但本席現在比較好奇的是，沒有錯，中央政府總預算送來，我們也看了一下各部會的相關員額，農業部就它的員額來講應該只有21位聘用人員，但農業部的公務預算編了27位，多出了將近20%。基金預算編了4個人，然後農業部的公務預算編了27人，這是僱用人員的部分。另外，數位發展部，剛剛你有特別提到，照理講就它的員額去換算只能有30位聘用人員，但是它卻超標兩倍多，現在114年公務預算的預算書裡面，它要聘用78位，換算下來已經超標，不只是我們5%的限制沒有守住，它已經變成是十幾%了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下，關於數發部，因為它的組織法裡面直接就明定其聘用員額不得超過100人，一般來講聘用人員占整體員額的比例不得超過5%，可是少數機關，像我剛才跟委員報告的數發部、國科會、運安會這一種，它的聘用員額是直接落在組織法裡面，所以它們就照組織法的數字去運用。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是人事長，我可不可以提醒一下，就是數發部到目前為止，他們的正式員額是不是還沒有用滿？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：還沒有用滿。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。那對於數發部，如果說一開始──我們講數位發展部一開始剛成立的時候，我們也對它高度期待，我們也認為說有一些數位的人才，確實他可能沒有辦法符合公務員的任用資格，所以事實上那個時候是有給它比較寬鬆的規定，但是數發部已經成立多久了？兩年多快三年嘛。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：兩年多，還沒有到三年，它是111年8月27日成立的。"],["洪委員孟楷：對啊，那如果這樣子，您認不認為整個中央政府部會的人事任用還是要以正軌來講？就是我們中央政府的人員還是以正式的公務人員為主、聘用人員為輔嘛，但是到目前為止，數發部已經成立兩年多快三年了，它的正式公務人員沒有編滿、沒有用滿，但是它的聘用人員持續超標，變成說已經是十幾%了。人事長，您對於……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：聘用人員也沒有用滿喔。"],["洪委員孟楷：我知道，你剛剛講100人嘛，所以現在聘用78人，你是鼓勵它再繼續用聘用人員？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：人事長，這個不好笑。本席很認真的在跟你討論這個問題，就在於說以人事的角度宏觀來講，如果說你這樣子可以放寬，甚至你剛剛的態度好像是在鼓勵數發部說，快一點，你們才聘用78個人而已，還有22個，如果這樣的話，那你不就是打擊一般公務人員的士氣嗎？還有其他的部會也可以講，我說我數發部很重要，那教育部也覺得說我的專任老師很重要，經濟部也可以說我的經濟趨勢發展很重要，到時候大家都不需要公務人員，我用聘用就好啦，那是不是就看誰比較大聲，還是說誰比較有背景可以去要求、去爭取？所以我再拉回來講的是說……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我剛才在笑……"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是應該還是要督促他們任用正式的公務人員？而且我相信，以中華民國公務人員的素質以及優秀的程度來講，他能夠考得上公務人員，他當然對於這個新科技、新技術可以有一些了解。人事長，你怎麼看？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我剛才在笑的原因就是因為數發部，尤其資安署，那裡的情況我很清楚，他們本來是要用約聘的，約聘人員比較好用，馬上就是即戰力嘛，結果後來他們聘用進來以後，馬上就被外面的銀行以每一個人一個月加一、兩萬全部挖了很多人走，等於就是數位部資安署幫他們認證，後來他們又把約聘的要轉成正職，結果它自己就發現用約聘的待遇搶不過外面的企業，所以他們又有提一個計畫要把約聘轉正職。所以很多東西就是剛開始規範的時候是有一個員額，可是就我們了解，數發部整個部內大概有八十幾%的到職率，還有大概15%以上還沒有到職。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以它的到職率也不如預期，是不是？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：可能壓力比較大吧？"],["洪委員孟楷：說實在的，人事長，國人對於數發部，如果要談論數發部，我可以跟你談論一、兩個小時沒有問題，國人對於數發部的期待絕對不止於此，你說過去這幾年的詐騙，數發部沒有責任嗎？你說過去這幾年相關的這一些技術的進步，數發部沒有責任嗎？那數發部每一次，到目前為止，你說兩、三年過去了，給國人留下什麼印象？就一個點麵線的系統。如果要點麵線的話，我用foodpanda、Uber Eats就可以了，我根本不用數發部，我不用每年花兩百多億的公務預算給數發部來做這樣的事情。人員不好找我同意，但是今天我跟你就教的就是人事總處的態度以及狀況，而不是說今天這個小孩會吵的有糖吃，這個小孩他不叫就沒有，公務同仁一視同仁，這是中央政府的一個基石，不是嗎？所以，既然數發部一直有這樣的狀況，正式的公務員都沒有辦法補滿，那它到底有沒有積極地去找，有沒有積極地鼓勵其他優秀的公務人員可以來數發部報效國家，而不是說他們沒有去做這樣的努力，然後又持續放任它用聘用人員。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：他們有積極地去找。"],["主席：因為時間的關係……"],["洪委員孟楷：這個部分應該才是人事總處要去檢討、要去督促的地方。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們會跟數發部再一起討論，看看有沒有哪些需要我們協助的地方。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：討論的狀況，是不是之後也可以給本席一份資料，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["主席：請人事長在討論後，將相關的內容提供給洪委員。謝謝。謝謝洪委員，謝謝蘇人事長。","接下來有請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","有請高金素梅委員，高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","所有登記發言委員，除不在場者外，均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。委員謝龍介、伍麗華所提書面質詢均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-2","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","林思銘","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","謝龍介","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137801_00011"}}}