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\"對於農民的各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 675.593, \"end\": 675.853, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 675.853, \"end\": 676.114, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 676.114, \"end\": 676.914, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 676.914, \"end\": 677.315, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 677.315, \"end\": 677.855, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 677.855, \"end\": 678.075, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 678.075, \"end\": 678.536, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 678.536, \"end\": 678.776, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 678.776, \"end\": 678.896, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 678.896, \"end\": 679.036, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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\"為\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 693.408, \"end\": 693.568, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 693.568, \"end\": 693.848, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 693.848, \"end\": 694.048, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 694.048, \"end\": 694.169, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 694.169, \"end\": 694.349, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 694.349, \"end\": 694.649, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 694.649, \"end\": 694.869, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 694.869, \"end\": 695.189, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 695.189, \"end\": 695.309, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 695.309, \"end\": 695.67, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 695.67, \"end\": 695.85, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 695.85, \"end\": 696.47, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 696.47, \"end\": 696.57, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 696.57, \"end\": 696.691, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 696.691, \"end\": 696.831, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 696.831, \"end\": 696.931, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 696.931, \"end\": 697.351, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 697.351, \"end\": 697.551, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 697.551, \"end\": 697.751, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"右\", \"start\": 697.751, \"end\": 698.032, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 698.032, \"end\": 698.212, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 698.212, \"end\": 698.772, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 698.772, \"end\": 699.073, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 699.073, \"end\": 699.973, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 699.973, \"end\": 700.233, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 700.233, \"end\": 700.654, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 700.654, \"end\": 701.535, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 701.535, \"end\": 701.875, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 701.875, \"end\": 702.015, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 702.015, \"end\": 702.375, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 702.375, \"end\": 702.515, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 702.515, \"end\": 703.036, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 703.036, \"end\": 703.696, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 703.696, \"end\": 703.836, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 703.836, \"end\": 703.856, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 704.617, \"end\": 726.022, \"text\": \"民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 704.617, \"end\": 704.977, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 704.977, \"end\": 705.157, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 705.157, \"end\": 705.317, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 705.317, \"end\": 705.437, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 705.437, \"end\": 705.597, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 705.597, \"end\": 705.757, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 705.757, \"end\": 706.437, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 706.437, \"end\": 706.878, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 706.878, \"end\": 706.958, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 706.958, \"end\": 707.018, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 707.018, \"end\": 707.218, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 707.218, \"end\": 707.298, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 707.298, \"end\": 707.398, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 707.398, \"end\": 707.638, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 707.638, \"end\": 708.058, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 708.058, \"end\": 708.318, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 708.318, \"end\": 708.798, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 708.798, \"end\": 708.938, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 708.938, \"end\": 709.098, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 709.098, \"end\": 709.318, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 709.318, \"end\": 710.458, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 710.458, \"end\": 710.638, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 710.638, \"end\": 711.399, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 711.399, \"end\": 711.579, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 711.579, \"end\": 711.719, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 711.719, \"end\": 712.119, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 712.119, \"end\": 712.479, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 712.479, \"end\": 712.759, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 712.759, \"end\": 713.099, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 713.099, \"end\": 713.259, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 713.259, \"end\": 714.679, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 714.679, \"end\": 715.299, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 715.299, \"end\": 715.419, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"陽\", 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\"以\", \"start\": 719.44, \"end\": 719.5, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 719.5, \"end\": 719.72, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 719.72, \"end\": 720.061, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 720.061, \"end\": 720.301, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 720.301, \"end\": 720.641, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 720.641, \"end\": 720.781, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"陽\", \"start\": 720.781, \"end\": 720.901, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 720.901, \"end\": 721.061, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 721.061, \"end\": 721.441, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 721.441, \"end\": 721.621, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 721.621, \"end\": 722.121, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 722.121, \"end\": 722.281, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 722.281, \"end\": 722.521, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 722.521, \"end\": 722.641, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 722.641, \"end\": 722.781, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 722.781, \"end\": 723.441, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 723.441, \"end\": 723.541, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 723.541, \"end\": 723.621, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 723.621, \"end\": 723.741, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 723.741, \"end\": 723.921, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 723.921, \"end\": 725.602, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 725.602, \"end\": 725.762, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 725.762, \"end\": 726.002, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 726.002, \"end\": 726.022, \"score\": 0.426}]}, {\"start\": 726.977, \"end\": 742.774, \"text\": 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\"包括生產然後工資利潤加起來才12萬多也就是說什麼都不用做找到這個租給供電業者就是40萬那農民自己的這個要存傳注意而且遇到像現在剛好颱風要來有可能是血本無歸也只有12最多也只有12萬多的收入所以針對這個部分院長我想\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 743.695, \"end\": 743.815, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 743.815, \"end\": 743.955, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 743.955, \"end\": 744.076, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 744.076, \"end\": 744.196, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 744.196, \"end\": 744.696, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 744.696, \"end\": 745.297, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 745.297, \"end\": 745.617, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"潤\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 745.617, \"end\": 745.798, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 745.798, \"end\": 746.018, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 746.018, \"end\": 746.859, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"start\": 763.579, \"end\": 763.599, \"text\": \"請問院長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 763.579, \"end\": 763.599, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 776.604, \"end\": 803.691, \"text\": \"光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就有40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好學本文規最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢農民是非常的不公平喔\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 776.604, \"end\": 777.004, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 777.004, \"end\": 777.444, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 777.444, \"end\": 777.784, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 777.784, \"end\": 777.904, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 777.904, \"end\": 778.004, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 778.004, \"end\": 778.525, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, 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\"就\", \"start\": 799.33, \"end\": 800.15, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 800.15, \"end\": 800.73, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 800.73, \"end\": 801.15, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 801.15, \"end\": 801.43, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 801.43, \"end\": 801.67, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 801.67, \"end\": 802.091, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"弱\", \"start\": 802.091, \"end\": 802.511, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 802.511, \"end\": 802.651, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 802.651, \"end\": 802.831, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 802.831, \"end\": 802.891, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 802.891, \"end\": 803.031, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 803.031, \"end\": 803.151, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 803.151, \"end\": 803.291, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 803.291, \"end\": 803.511, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 803.511, \"end\": 803.671, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 803.671, \"end\": 803.691, \"score\": 0.165}]}, {\"start\": 804.151, \"end\": 832.595, \"text\": \"所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 804.151, \"end\": 804.271, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 804.271, \"end\": 804.672, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 804.672, \"end\": 804.872, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 804.872, \"end\": 805.032, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 805.032, \"end\": 805.412, \"score\": 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1278.244, \"end\": 1278.264, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1279.364, \"end\": 1308.087, \"text\": \"那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前甚至我們還聽到很多部長我甚至還聽到很多就說你在住宿中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宿中心暫缺但是是在部會任職\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1279.364, \"end\": 1279.504, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1279.504, \"end\": 1279.664, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1279.664, \"end\": 1279.764, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1279.764, \"end\": 1279.905, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 1279.905, \"end\": 1280.605, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 1280.605, \"end\": 1280.805, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 1280.805, \"end\": 1280.945, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1280.945, \"end\": 1281.086, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1281.086, \"end\": 1281.246, \"score\": 0.934}, 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{\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1302.903, \"end\": 1304.344, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 1304.344, \"end\": 1304.745, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1304.745, \"end\": 1304.825, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1304.825, \"end\": 1305.205, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1305.205, \"end\": 1305.365, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1305.365, \"end\": 1305.445, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1305.445, \"end\": 1305.625, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 1305.625, \"end\": 1305.785, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"宿\", \"start\": 1305.785, \"end\": 1305.946, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 1305.946, \"end\": 1306.126, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 1306.126, \"end\": 1306.626, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 1306.626, \"end\": 1307.147, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1307.147, \"end\": 1307.307, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1307.307, \"end\": 1307.427, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1307.427, \"end\": 1307.487, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1307.487, \"end\": 1307.707, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1307.707, \"end\": 1308.067, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 1308.067, \"end\": 1308.087, \"score\": 0.187}, {\"word\": \"職\"}]}, {\"start\": 1309.088, \"end\": 1319.489, \"text\": \"所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姐姐長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1309.088, \"end\": 1309.188, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1309.188, \"end\": 1309.389, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 1309.389, \"end\": 1309.549, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1309.549, 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\"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 1312.455, \"end\": 1312.976, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1312.976, \"end\": 1313.397, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"肥\", \"start\": 1313.397, \"end\": 1313.938, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"貓\"}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1313.938, \"end\": 1314.138, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 1314.138, \"end\": 1314.318, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 1314.318, \"end\": 1314.799, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1314.799, \"end\": 1314.96, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1314.96, \"end\": 1315.08, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1315.08, \"end\": 1315.381, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1315.381, \"end\": 1315.661, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 1315.661, \"end\": 1315.701, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1315.701, \"end\": 1316.002, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"姐\", \"start\": 1316.002, \"end\": 1316.142, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"姐\", \"start\": 1316.142, \"end\": 1316.262, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1316.262, \"end\": 1316.763, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1316.763, \"end\": 1316.984, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1316.984, \"end\": 1317.164, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 1317.164, \"end\": 1317.344, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 1317.344, \"end\": 1317.505, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1317.505, \"end\": 1317.645, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 1317.645, \"end\": 1318.046, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1318.046, \"end\": 1318.166, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1318.166, \"end\": 1318.366, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 1318.366, \"end\": 1318.527, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1318.527, \"end\": 1318.948, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1318.948, \"end\": 1319.108, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1319.108, \"end\": 1319.308, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1319.308, \"end\": 1319.469, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1319.469, \"end\": 1319.489, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 1322.089, \"end\": 1348.6, \"text\": \"另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 1322.089, \"end\": 1322.249, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1322.249, \"end\": 1322.649, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1322.649, \"end\": 1322.769, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 1322.769, \"end\": 1323.61, \"score\": 0.906}, 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{\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 1637.003, \"end\": 1637.023, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 1637.023, \"end\": 1637.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 1637.043, \"end\": 1637.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 1637.063, \"end\": 1637.083, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 1637.083, \"end\": 1637.143, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1637.143, \"end\": 1637.163, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1652.595, \"end\": 1656.316, \"text\": \"請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1652.595, \"end\": 1652.755, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1652.755, \"end\": 1652.955, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1652.955, \"end\": 1653.175, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"券\", \"start\": 1653.175, \"end\": 1653.355, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 1653.355, 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\"﹖\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1829.897, \"end\": 1830.097, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1830.097, \"end\": 1830.217, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1830.217, \"end\": 1830.798, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 1830.798, \"end\": 1830.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1830.978, \"end\": 1831.198, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1831.198, \"end\": 1831.298, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 1831.298, \"end\": 1831.318, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"﹖\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 1842.725, \"end\": 1843.027, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 1843.027, \"end\": 1843.047, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:17,133 --> 00:00:20,717\n謝謝主席我們請卓院長請院長備詢徐委員好\n\n2\n00:00:31,491 --> 00:00:59,270\n委員長好辛苦了我想請教一下卓院長因為今天我想要請教卓院長大概就是一些最近大家都很關心的一些議題其中第一項就是有關國土計畫法記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候我有請教過您相關的問題那我們可以看一下我們現在國土計畫法我們都可以知道就是為了國家的糧食安全所以我們現在有劃定了74到81萬公頃的必須要作為農地\n\n3\n00:01:00,452 --> 00:01:00,492\n國土計劃法﹚\n\n4\n00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:40,625\n我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的是農一是六萬然後農二是兩萬六千多百公頃然後屏東縣它雖然農地面積比較大但是它的農一目前只劃了五千七百七十六公頃那我想請教一下如果請教院長如果屏東可以這樣做那其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設把國有地劃設為農一私有地劃設為農二\n\n5\n00:01:42,407 --> 00:01:57,248\n這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合那總歸的是全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下我們才能做這樣國土規劃的活動所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致\n\n6\n00:02:00,532 --> 00:02:13,545\n各縣市政府在化農業發展區的時候除了照相關的一些化社的原則以外還會參考縣市的發展的一個情況去處理第二個部分就是說屏東縣他\n\n7\n00:02:15,006 --> 00:02:17,389\n這不是看起來比較低喔是低很多那我現在要請教的是說記得當時喔那時候是這個\n\n8\n00:02:30,926 --> 00:02:55,933\n現場是潘孟安潘縣長他在畫社這個部分的時候呢我想內政部跟農業部其實好像針對這個部分其實也都覺得這樣子做法有別於其他縣市來畫社其實是不對的那也提出了道德勸說但是最後因為畢竟嘛這個畫社分區圖是縣市的一個這個來提報的所以最後還是尊重他那先通過他的草案請問是這樣嗎\n\n9\n00:02:57,822 --> 00:02:58,203\n這個我要澄清齁\n\n10\n00:03:25,967 --> 00:03:40,158\n現階段的國土的相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段都沒有送到所謂的中央的部會內政部這邊來審議所以也沒有所謂說農業部退回去並沒有退回去這件事\n\n11\n00:03:47,184 --> 00:04:14,579\n1540公頃要他們百分之化身為農二要求他們恢復成農醫這是在111年1月4號的第21次的演商會議所以這個部分可能我想這個資料都是明確的所以這個部分我只想請教院長就是說是不是針對國土計畫的區分法可以讓各縣市都有統一的標準這剛剛部長已經解釋過了所以我想請教院長是不是可以這樣\n\n12\n00:04:16,155 --> 00:04:18,716\n現在為什麼很多的農民﹚很多的這個地方﹚農業縣的縣政府﹚對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮﹚主要就是因為農一跟農二到底有什麼差別﹚\n\n13\n00:04:39,048 --> 00:05:00,323\n我直接的說因為在溝通的過程當中我們希望用土地專業理性去溝通但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說一旦實施的農民就永世不得翻身這種政治性的操作我覺得應該要停下來請教院長農一跟農二有什麼差別從事農業來講是完全沒有差的對農業來講是完全沒有差那既然這樣的話為什麼就乾脆劃在一起就不要分農一農二呢\n\n14\n00:05:06,857 --> 00:05:28,087\n我想農一農二的發生的時候在農一的時候是已經有比較多的這些基礎設施在那邊所以未來在後面的這些基礎設施的一個興建上面會有一個區別但是對農民來講是沒有差的因為其實我們現在一直說不清楚農一農二其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣就是說大家在恐嚇農民不是而是因為現在的一個\n\n15\n00:05:28,567 --> 00:05:28,667\n許宇甄\n\n16\n00:05:45,112 --> 00:06:06,638\n我們可以看到99%的農會也都反對這個國土計劃法為什麼?因為就是不夠了解而且這個補貼或是相關的一個配套措施或相關的法令其實都一直不清楚尤其是我們的總共會有23項的執法目前已經完成14項還有9項還沒有完成\n\n17\n00:06:07,597 --> 00:06:34,594\n是這樣嗎那個請教一下部長我可不可以回答一下我跟委員報告一下那個其實國土計畫呢他有二級審議一級審議呢在縣市地方政府二級審議才到中央來那你剛有提到說在延商計畫當中被退回就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市因為他名詞或用詞不當所以其實並沒有像你所想像所以請部長可能回去查一下我時間還有包括哪一次都已經明確地告訴部長先應該\n\n18\n00:06:37,056 --> 00:06:41,880\n這部份是不是請部長能夠回去查清楚那可以讓雲林縣有一個瞭解清楚整個的那種風貌如果可以的話他們就再送再把這1500公斤再歸回去院長有再三指示說一定要好好的溝通那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說就我所瞭解的部份\n\n19\n00:06:59,335 --> 00:06:59,816\n其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說他們希望\n\n20\n00:07:21,997 --> 00:07:47,655\n能夠保障農民的權益絕對是我想高過我們任何一個人所以當時這個潘茂安這個縣長他在擔任他為什麼會把這個私有地都化成為農耳他就是認為這樣會影響農民的權益報告委員農會農民跟農地的權益從來沒有被不保障過那如果這樣子的話非常好我想今天不管部長跟院長其實都很同意就是我們要保障農民的權益這點是有共識的對\n\n21\n00:07:48,976 --> 00:07:52,718\n他們畫完以後我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論像上次雲林縣政府講的原來農業裡面有部分的地層下減區那我們覺得說地層下減區放在農業也不合理\n\n22\n00:08:31,163 --> 00:08:51,395\n我們的配套措施還有補償措施甚至法令完成你看我們23項的執法其實經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的我們國土計畫裡面的23項裡面現在9項是在預告還有1項要討論而已所以到明年的4月30之前所謂的23項會完全全部完成所以這個部分可能請院長要特別希望縣市政府都可以跟農民講清楚\n\n23\n00:09:00,421 --> 00:09:21,612\n對剛剛是講說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別可是我們可以看到現在這張圖喔我們是依據這個國土署的這個送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的所以說為什麼會這樣子呢我們是它有導致農地的價格會降低而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損所以呢我們根據憲法喔各位可以看一下根據憲法\n\n24\n00:09:24,445 --> 00:09:46,715\n有保障人民的財產權根據釋字第444號如果國家依法行使公權利至人民的財產遭受損失也應該要形成個人的特別的犧牲也應該要給予合理的補償所以說院長您有沒有認為應該要給予農民多少的怎麼樣的補償才算是合理您心目中有沒有一個具體的一個數字\n\n25\n00:09:48,117 --> 00:10:06,733\n我覺得應該跟農民朋友要說明清楚國土計劃法裡面真正它的用意如何來使用它的管制的規定那你剛剛提到農一農二為什麼要把它分開我們都混為一起2016年當初5月之前設定立這個法的時候它就這樣設定啦那除非現在我們重新再來\n\n26\n00:10:07,193 --> 00:10:07,593\n我跟委員說明齁\n\n27\n00:10:35,738 --> 00:10:50,653\n我們農業部對於農民或是農產業的一個支援的投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變換句話說它不是一個說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼沒通過就沒補貼\n\n28\n00:10:51,414 --> 00:10:51,654\n農業部最近幾年下來我們統計\n\n29\n00:11:15,593 --> 00:11:43,856\n對於農民的各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是\n\n30\n00:11:44,617 --> 00:12:06,022\n民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金\n\n31\n00:12:06,977 --> 00:12:22,774\n也就是說什麼都不用做就可以收40萬的租金所以說針對這個部分我們可以看一下那如果農民呢農民他們到一年的收益是多少我們可以看下一張這個是根據農糧署的給的資料農民一年下來\n\n32\n00:12:23,695 --> 00:12:42,558\n包括生產然後工資利潤加起來才12萬多也就是說什麼都不用做找到這個租給供電業者就是40萬那農民自己的這個要存傳注意而且遇到像現在剛好颱風要來有可能是血本無歸也只有12最多也只有12萬多的收入所以針對這個部分院長我想\n\n33\n00:12:43,579 --> 00:12:43,599\n請問院長\n\n34\n00:12:56,604 --> 00:13:23,691\n光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就有40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好學本文規最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢農民是非常的不公平喔\n\n35\n00:13:24,151 --> 00:13:52,595\n所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工\n\n36\n00:13:53,615 --> 00:14:16,133\n請的租金的收益支持農業部所需的預算第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的不管草野立委都提出的就支持國土計劃法的修正草案將施行日期展延兩年讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備並有充足的時間跟農民溝通我在這邊代表廣大弱勢的農民請求院長\n\n37\n00:14:17,434 --> 00:14:17,454\n農業部\n\n38\n00:14:33,906 --> 00:14:48,104\n他對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持長年以來都實質在增加剛剛說過去年大概200多億那我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想第三個部分我覺得這個需要朝野有共識\n\n39\n00:14:49,185 --> 00:14:49,285\n社會住宅\n\n40\n00:15:13,567 --> 00:15:22,313\n社會住宅興建的進度可以看到既有加新完工大概是31434戶興建中大概是42956戶以絕標代開工的大概是31992戶規劃中的是15556戶所以呢根據\n\n41\n00:15:35,262 --> 00:15:53,067\n院長您的這個施政報告裡面這邊的第6頁有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標可是就我們一般人看起來或我們一般人的認知已經完工的才算是已經完成的這個社會住宅\n\n42\n00:15:53,607 --> 00:15:53,727\n主席\n\n43\n00:16:11,471 --> 00:16:35,711\n是我想委員您講得非常的正確就是說如果我們把這個以絕標代開工的還有興建當中把它去掉的話確實在第一階段的109年底的時候我們是達標的是4萬戶而已所以您現在但是如果你把已經絕標跟新完工還有既有的加在一起的話到113年的8月底一共是106382戶\n\n44\n00:16:39,017 --> 00:17:01,733\n那個是以絕標待開工﹖也就是還沒開工﹖請問還沒開工可以住嗎﹖更不可能住啊﹖當然﹖所以我的意思就是說﹖你不能把以絕標待開工﹖都當作你們已經完成的目標﹖所以技術的標準不一樣﹖包括說﹖您剛剛也特別提到﹖剛剛我們的廖偉祥﹖廖委員在提到的時候﹖您剛剛也回答說﹖也是報告裡面第7頁有的﹖\n\n45\n00:17:02,734 --> 00:17:03,354\n因為我們看下一張\n\n46\n00:17:22,276 --> 00:17:32,691\n審計部其實已經打臉了因為審計部這邊的報告特別提到在120年底蔡英文總統的12萬社會住宅只能蓋好98,699戶也就是說在\n\n47\n00:17:37,728 --> 00:17:38,648\n報告委員我可不可以補充說明一下\n\n48\n00:18:01,335 --> 00:18:28,826\n您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年針對過去啊這個蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租貸款的戶數她是依照剛剛那個數字喔她是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的喔包括說20113年到8月底大概可以有37,017我們也看到審計部的報告所以我們現在重新在規劃的部分的話所以跟您剛剛提到的包括這個報告有非常大的落差\n\n49\n00:18:29,366 --> 00:18:29,767\n部長最後一句話你應該讓他說完\n\n50\n00:18:45,871 --> 00:19:02,194\n省計部的報告也許他是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演那現在我們也看到執行上目前遇到的這些比較慢的速度所以他用多元的方式在取得土地甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作\n\n51\n00:19:03,015 --> 00:19:13,969\n議員長我這邊提出來就是要讓官院長或部長瞭解對這個部分其實這個數字就是會說謊目前的狀況也是這樣所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題來去加速這個社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點\n\n52\n00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:29,646\n社會住宅基本上是住宅中心執行的你知道520之後內政部很多人都希望調到住宅中心去你知道為什麼嗎\n\n53\n00:19:39,347 --> 00:20:06,668\n住都中心它現在是一個算是民間的基金會它比較不受公務員的影響但是問題是住都中心的工作量也非常的大我不曉得有沒有這個原因但是我知道的狀況是院長您的薪資我們可以看到大概一個月是346,960這是院長的薪資那我們可以看到像一張住都中心的執行長一個月就有302,848還不包含主管家籍\n\n54\n00:20:07,737 --> 00:20:31,056\n所以你就知道為什麼住都中心他在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億職員有460人比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多就是因為他們都坐臨高薪坐臨高薪如果可以把事情做好其實我們也都認同但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後所以我們可以看到這個\n\n55\n00:20:32,297 --> 00:20:51,896\n這個部分是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分能夠了解清楚為什麼這個我們的住都中心坐領這麼高的薪水可是呢就沒有辦法達到這樣的效果本來在我們通過住都中心的這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來所以其實我並沒有做更動那第二個呢住都中心呢在\n\n56\n00:20:53,336 --> 00:21:18,264\n賴總統上任之後加速在全台灣各地包括在金門、馬祖、離島的地方都有住都中心要蓋的社會住宅所以其實他們是非常的忙碌的部長其實在112年的審計部的決算報告也提出了很多住都中心的一些問題包括說租金收入未達領口次大運的租金收入未達新辦事業計畫的預期還有出租人或業者藝林補助費用等等相關的問題很多\n\n57\n00:21:19,364 --> 00:21:48,087\n那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前甚至我們還聽到很多部長我甚至還聽到很多就說你在住宿中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宿中心暫缺但是是在部會任職\n\n58\n00:21:49,088 --> 00:21:59,489\n所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姐姐長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎好\n\n59\n00:22:02,089 --> 00:22:28,600\n另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話\n\n60\n00:22:32,602 --> 00:22:39,327\n有的話請舉手都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息受過詐騙集團的電話來電這幾年下來我們對於認識詐騙的各種的宣導還是有一些成效但是我還是承認詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛苦\n\n61\n00:22:54,938 --> 00:23:11,691\n那我想這個部分我們可以先看一下行事警察局在這7年來他們有一個這個詐騙的案件跟金額的統計你可以看到的就是到去年底他的這個詐騙的件數來到了37984那詐騙的金額也到88.7億元那請問主委院長針對打詐這個中心講說他們現在的這個打詐成績其實越來越好那請問院長您對這個成績滿意嗎\n\n62\n00:23:25,202 --> 00:23:25,523\n我們看下一張\n\n63\n00:23:43,228 --> 00:23:55,960\n我們現在有一個打債預報板行政署的打債預報板我現在只有列出7月跟8月的這個受理案件數跟這個財損金額光7月就111億光8月就137億就光這兩個月就這麼高的一個這個財損的一個金額\n\n64\n00:24:04,087 --> 00:24:04,307\n好的,好的\n\n65\n00:24:32,597 --> 00:24:55,732\n打詐儀表板就是我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數所以就是每一天都會公佈打詐儀表板所以說表示現在這個是沒有黑數的其實我們已經把它更動也就是說一人一案而不是像以前很多人一案還有一個詐騙的金額的部分是他們主觀認定跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些\n\n66\n00:25:01,589 --> 00:25:14,105\n打架打架成效不彰過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據那現在我們已經經過大院也審定了打架新法這個理由絕對不存在我們希望能夠\n\n67\n00:25:15,026 --> 00:25:15,847\n主席主席\n\n68\n00:25:36,609 --> 00:25:58,681\n當然我們也希望說我們的這個宣導要用在對的地方用在對的人還有就是因為其實年輕人被詐騙的居多那他們其實都習慣用網路尤其是我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區你可以看一下就裡面有很多金融防詐的一個資訊點進去看你可以看一下就是\n\n69\n00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:17,766\n瀏覽的人次大概從2489到5809不等大概瀏覽人次這樣你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了\n\n70\n00:26:18,709 --> 00:26:18,909\n許宇甄議員\n\n71\n00:26:39,989 --> 00:26:56,194\n關於我們自己金管會的網站就有這樣子的問題了所以是不是應該院長您應該要請他們要改進但是也跟委員報告透過金管會跟財政部我們的公民銀行戶在零貴的服務方面對於打詐的這個功能是展現出來的\n\n72\n00:26:56,974 --> 00:27:08,639\n他們的服務已經超越了原來的工作上的職務所以金管會跟財政部跟公民銀行他們的宣導是多樣性的那這一點確實需要加強我們再請彭主委加強能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑更有直線式效應\n\n73\n00:27:16,903 --> 00:27:17,163\n我警官會特別注意\n\n74\n00:27:32,595 --> 00:27:36,316\n請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎\n\n75\n00:28:01,670 --> 00:28:24,627\n也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶說要委託書嗎我這邊就有一個實際的例子就是我的助理就接到這樣的電話就是他在那個這個星光金有這樣的一個股票然後營業員打給他要不要\n\n76\n00:28:25,327 --> 00:28:44,143\n可不可以把他的委託書給他我覺得這樣子的就像剛剛院長講的就是個資的問題可能就因為這樣的洩漏而且像這樣子的一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資來這個洩密出去那說實在我們現在打詐都不利了還只有這樣子的公司居然是做這樣的一個狀況那請問院長你覺得這個部分應該來怎麼處理\n\n77\n00:28:47,746 --> 00:29:11,811\n報告委員我想這個案子我私底下再跟委員請教一下我們會來請同仁去了解一下我覺得這樣子其實會讓我們一般的老百姓都會覺得心生恐懼我是一個正常的管道去投資但是在這個公司開戶之後居然我的個資是可以用這樣的一個方式洩露出去那萬一洩露到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦\n\n78\n00:29:12,751 --> 00:29:34,824\n所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下可能我們現在就像剛剛院長講的我們通過這個詐騙犯罪妨礙委之條例之後打詐司法之後我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低但是呢現在的狀況目前看起來不是這樣目前看到這個件數越來越多那也希望這個部分院長一定要讓我們的這些相關的部會能夠針對這個打詐的這個部分能夠多多的宣傳\n\n79\n00:29:38,826 --> 00:29:39,826\n我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多的支持\n\n80\n00:30:08,797 --> 00:30:31,318\n那其實呢﹖您知道嗎﹖今年就有部會是買這個日本的葡萄﹖去送給這個﹖這個必須請部會要檢討﹖其實這是國安局今年買的﹖就是送禮用的﹖是國安局﹖那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果呢﹖我們都在推廣這個農民的這個權益﹖\n\n81\n00:30:42,725 --> 00:30:43,047\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17133\t20717\t謝謝主席 我們請卓院長請院長備詢徐委員好\n31491\t59270\t委員長好辛苦了我想請教一下卓院長因為今天我想要請教卓院長大概就是一些最近大家都很關心的一些議題其中第一項就是有關國土計畫法記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候我有請教過您相關的問題那我們可以看一下我們現在國土計畫法我們都可以知道就是為了國家的糧食安全所以我們現在有劃定了74到81萬公頃的必須要作為農地\n60452\t60492\t國土計劃法﹚\n73510\t100625\t我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的是農一是六萬然後農二是兩萬六千多百公頃然後屏東縣它雖然農地面積比較大但是它的農一目前只劃了五千七百七十六公頃那我想請教一下如果請教院長如果屏東可以這樣做那其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設把國有地劃設為農一私有地劃設為農二\n102407\t117248\t這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合那總歸的是全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下我們才能做這樣國土規劃的活動所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致\n120532\t133545\t各縣市政府在化農業發展區的時候除了照相關的一些化社的原則以外還會參考縣市的發展的一個情況去處理第二個部分就是說屏東縣他\n135006\t137389\t這不是看起來比較低喔 是低很多那我現在要請教的是說記得當時喔 那時候是這個\n150926\t175933\t現場是潘孟安潘縣長他在畫社這個部分的時候呢我想內政部跟農業部其實好像針對這個部分其實也都覺得這樣子做法有別於其他縣市來畫社其實是不對的那也提出了道德勸說但是最後因為畢竟嘛這個畫社分區圖是縣市的一個這個來提報的所以最後還是尊重他那先通過他的草案請問是這樣嗎\n177822\t178203\t這個我要澄清齁\n205967\t220158\t現階段的國土的相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段都沒有送到所謂的中央的部會內政部這邊來審議所以也沒有所謂說農業部退回去並沒有退回去這件事\n227184\t254579\t1540公頃要他們百分之化身為農二要求他們恢復成農醫這是在111年1月4號的第21次的演商會議所以這個部分可能我想這個資料都是明確的所以這個部分我只想請教院長就是說是不是針對國土計畫的區分法可以讓各縣市都有統一的標準這剛剛部長已經解釋過了所以我想請教院長是不是可以這樣\n256155\t258716\t現在為什麼很多的農民﹚很多的這個地方﹚農業縣的縣政府﹚對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮﹚主要就是因為 農一跟農二到底有什麼差別﹚\n279048\t300323\t我直接的說因為在溝通的過程當中我們希望用土地專業理性去溝通但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說一旦實施的農民就永世不得翻身這種政治性的操作我覺得應該要停下來請教院長農一跟農二有什麼差別從事農業來講是完全沒有差的對農業來講是完全沒有差那既然這樣的話為什麼就乾脆劃在一起就不要分農一農二呢\n306857\t328087\t我想農一農二的發生的時候在農一的時候是已經有比較多的這些基礎設施在那邊所以未來在後面的這些基礎設施的一個興建上面會有一個區別但是對農民來講是沒有差的因為其實我們現在一直說不清楚農一農二其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣就是說大家在恐嚇農民不是而是因為現在的一個\n328567\t328667\t許宇甄\n345112\t366638\t我們可以看到99%的農會也都反對這個國土計劃法為什麼?因為就是不夠了解而且這個補貼或是相關的一個配套措施或相關的法令其實都一直不清楚尤其是我們的總共會有23項的執法目前已經完成14項還有9項還沒有完成\n367597\t394594\t是這樣嗎那個請教一下部長我可不可以回答一下我跟委員報告一下那個其實國土計畫呢他有二級審議一級審議呢在縣市地方政府二級審議才到中央來那你剛有提到說在延商計畫當中被退回就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市因為他名詞或用詞不當所以其實並沒有像你所想像所以請部長可能回去查一下我時間還有包括哪一次都已經明確地告訴部長先應該\n397056\t401880\t這部份是不是請部長能夠回去查清楚那可以讓雲林縣有一個瞭解清楚整個的那種風貌如果可以的話他們就再送再把這1500公斤再歸回去院長有再三指示說一定要好好的溝通那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說就我所瞭解的部份\n419335\t419816\t其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說他們希望\n441997\t467655\t能夠保障農民的權益絕對是我想高過我們任何一個人所以當時這個潘茂安這個縣長他在擔任他為什麼會把這個私有地都化成為農耳他就是認為這樣會影響農民的權益報告委員農會農民跟農地的權益從來沒有被不保障過那如果這樣子的話非常好我想今天不管部長跟院長其實都很同意就是我們要保障農民的權益這點是有共識的對\n468976\t472718\t他們畫完以後我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論像上次雲林縣政府講的原來農業裡面有部分的地層下減區那我們覺得說地層下減區放在農業也不合理\n494206\t510282\t實質討論\n511163\t531395\t我們的配套措施還有補償措施甚至法令完成你看我們23項的執法其實經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的我們國土計畫裡面的23項裡面現在9項是在預告還有1項要討論而已所以到明年的4月30之前所謂的23項會完全全部完成所以這個部分可能請院長要特別希望縣市政府都可以跟農民講清楚\n540421\t561612\t對 剛剛是講說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別可是我們可以看到現在這張圖喔我們是依據這個國土署的這個送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的所以說為什麼會這樣子呢我們是 它有導致農地的價格會降低而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損所以呢我們根據憲法喔各位可以看一下根據憲法\n564445\t586715\t有保障人民的財產權根據釋字第444號如果國家依法行使公權利至人民的財產遭受損失也應該要形成個人的特別的犧牲也應該要給予合理的補償所以說院長您有沒有認為應該要給予農民多少的怎麼樣的補償才算是合理您心目中有沒有一個具體的一個數字\n588117\t606733\t我覺得應該跟農民朋友要說明清楚國土計劃法裡面真正它的用意如何來使用它的管制的規定那你剛剛提到農一農二為什麼要把它分開我們都混為一起2016年當初5月之前設定立這個法的時候它就這樣設定啦那除非現在我們重新再來\n607193\t607593\t我跟委員說明齁\n635738\t650653\t我們農業部對於農民或是農產業的一個支援的投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變換句話說它不是一個說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼沒通過就沒補貼\n651414\t651654\t農業部最近幾年下來我們統計\n675593\t703856\t對於農民的各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是\n704617\t726022\t民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金\n726977\t742774\t也就是說什麼都不用做就可以收40萬的租金所以說針對這個部分我們可以看一下那如果農民呢農民他們到一年的收益是多少我們可以看下一張這個是根據農糧署的給的資料農民一年下來\n743695\t762558\t包括生產然後工資利潤加起來才12萬多也就是說什麼都不用做找到這個租給供電業者就是40萬那農民自己的這個要存傳注意而且遇到像現在剛好颱風要來有可能是血本無歸也只有12最多也只有12萬多的收入所以針對這個部分院長我想\n763579\t763599\t請問院長\n776604\t803691\t光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就有40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好學本文規最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢農民是非常的不公平喔\n804151\t832595\t所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工\n833615\t856133\t請的租金的收益支持農業部所需的預算第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的不管草野立委都提出的就支持國土計劃法的修正草案將施行日期展延兩年讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備並有充足的時間跟農民溝通我在這邊代表廣大弱勢的農民請求院長\n857434\t857454\t農業部\n873906\t888104\t他對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持長年以來都實質在增加剛剛說過去年大概200多億那我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想第三個部分我覺得這個需要朝野有共識\n889185\t889285\t社會住宅\n913567\t922313\t社會住宅興建的進度可以看到既有加新完工大概是31434戶興建中大概是42956戶以絕標代開工的大概是31992戶規劃中的是15556戶所以呢根據\n935262\t953067\t院長您的這個施政報告裡面這邊的第6頁有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標可是就我們一般人看起來或我們一般人的認知已經完工的才算是已經完成的這個社會住宅\n953607\t953727\t主席\n971471\t995711\t是我想委員您講得非常的正確就是說如果我們把這個以絕標代開工的還有興建當中把它去掉的話確實在第一階段的109年底的時候我們是達標的是4萬戶而已所以您現在但是如果你把已經絕標跟新完工還有既有的加在一起的話到113年的8月底一共是106382戶\n999017\t1021733\t那個是以絕標待開工﹖也就是還沒開工﹖請問還沒開工可以住嗎﹖更不可能住啊﹖當然﹖所以我的意思就是說﹖你不能把以絕標待開工﹖都當作你們已經完成的目標﹖所以技術的標準不一樣﹖包括說﹖您剛剛也特別提到﹖剛剛我們的廖偉祥﹖廖委員在提到的時候﹖您剛剛也回答說﹖也是報告裡面第7頁有的﹖\n1022734\t1023354\t因為我們看下一張\n1042276\t1052691\t審計部其實已經打臉了因為審計部這邊的報告特別提到在120年底蔡英文總統的12萬社會住宅只能蓋好98,699戶也就是說在\n1057728\t1058648\t報告委員我可不可以補充說明一下\n1081335\t1108826\t您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年針對過去啊這個蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租貸款的戶數她是依照剛剛那個數字喔她是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的喔包括說20113年到8月底大概可以有37,017我們也看到審計部的報告所以我們現在重新在規劃的部分的話所以跟您剛剛提到的包括這個報告有非常大的落差\n1109366\t1109767\t部長最後一句話你應該讓他說完\n1125871\t1142194\t省計部的報告也許他是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演那現在我們也看到執行上目前遇到的這些比較慢的速度所以他用多元的方式在取得土地甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作\n1143015\t1153969\t議員長我這邊提出來就是要讓官院長或部長瞭解對這個部分其實這個數字就是會說謊目前的狀況也是這樣所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題來去加速這個社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點\n1162700\t1169646\t社會住宅基本上是住宅中心執行的你知道520之後內政部很多人都希望調到住宅中心去你知道為什麼嗎\n1179347\t1206668\t住都中心它現在是一個算是民間的基金會它比較不受公務員的影響但是問題是住都中心的工作量也非常的大我不曉得有沒有這個原因但是我知道的狀況是院長您的薪資我們可以看到大概一個月是346,960這是院長的薪資那我們可以看到像一張住都中心的執行長一個月就有302,848還不包含主管家籍\n1207737\t1231056\t所以你就知道為什麼住都中心他在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億職員有460人比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多就是因為他們都坐臨高薪坐臨高薪如果可以把事情做好其實我們也都認同但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後所以我們可以看到這個\n1232297\t1251896\t這個部分是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分能夠了解清楚為什麼這個我們的住都中心坐領這麼高的薪水可是呢就沒有辦法達到這樣的效果本來在我們通過住都中心的這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來所以其實我並沒有做更動那第二個呢住都中心呢在\n1253336\t1278264\t賴總統上任之後加速在全台灣各地包括在金門、馬祖、離島的地方都有住都中心要蓋的社會住宅所以其實他們是非常的忙碌的部長其實在112年的審計部的決算報告也提出了很多住都中心的一些問題包括說租金收入未達領口次大運的租金收入未達新辦事業計畫的預期還有出租人或業者藝林補助費用等等相關的問題很多\n1279364\t1308087\t那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前甚至我們還聽到很多部長我甚至還聽到很多就說你在住宿中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宿中心暫缺但是是在部會任職\n1309088\t1319489\t所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姐姐長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎好\n1322089\t1348600\t另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話\n1352602\t1359327\t有的話請舉手都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息受過詐騙集團的電話來電這幾年下來我們對於認識詐騙的各種的宣導還是有一些成效但是我還是承認詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛苦\n1374938\t1391691\t那我想這個部分我們可以先看一下行事警察局在這7年來他們有一個這個詐騙的案件跟金額的統計你可以看到的就是到去年底他的這個詐騙的件數來到了37984那詐騙的金額也到88.7億元那請問主委院長針對打詐這個中心講說他們現在的這個打詐成績其實越來越好那請問院長您對這個成績滿意嗎\n1405202\t1405523\t我們看下一張\n1423228\t1435960\t我們現在有一個打債預報板 行政署的打債預報板我現在只有列出7月跟8月的這個受理案件數跟這個財損金額光7月就111億光8月就137億就光這兩個月就這麼高的一個這個財損的一個金額\n1444087\t1444307\t好的,好的\n1472597\t1495732\t打詐儀表板就是我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數所以就是每一天都會公佈打詐儀表板所以說表示現在這個是沒有黑數的其實我們已經把它更動也就是說一人一案而不是像以前很多人一案還有一個詐騙的金額的部分是他們主觀認定跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些\n1501589\t1514105\t打架打架成效不彰過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據那現在我們已經經過大院也審定了打架新法這個理由絕對不存在我們希望能夠\n1515026\t1515847\t主席主席\n1536609\t1558681\t當然我們也希望說我們的這個宣導要用在對的地方用在對的人還有就是因為其實年輕人被詐騙的居多那他們其實都習慣用網路尤其是我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區你可以看一下就裡面有很多金融防詐的一個資訊點進去看你可以看一下就是\n1560480\t1577766\t瀏覽的人次大概從2489到5809不等大概瀏覽人次這樣你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了\n1578709\t1578909\t許宇甄議員\n1599989\t1616194\t關於我們自己金管會的網站就有這樣子的問題了所以是不是應該 院長您應該要請他們要改進但是也跟委員報告透過金管會跟財政部我們的公民銀行戶在零貴的服務方面對於打詐的這個功能是展現出來的\n1616974\t1628639\t他們的服務已經超越了原來的工作上的職務所以金管會跟財政部跟公民銀行他們的宣導是多樣性的那這一點確實需要加強我們再請彭主委加強能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑更有直線式效應\n1636903\t1637163\t我警官會特別注意\n1652595\t1656316\t請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎\n1681670\t1704627\t也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶說要委託書嗎我這邊就有一個實際的例子就是我的助理就接到這樣的電話就是他在那個這個星光金有這樣的一個股票然後營業員打給他要不要\n1705327\t1724143\t可不可以把他的委託書給他我覺得這樣子的就像剛剛院長講的就是個資的問題可能就因為這樣的洩漏而且像這樣子的一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資來這個洩密出去那說實在我們現在打詐都不利了還只有這樣子的公司居然是做這樣的一個狀況那請問院長你覺得這個部分應該來怎麼處理\n1727746\t1751811\t報告委員我想這個案子我私底下再跟委員請教一下我們會來請同仁去了解一下我覺得這樣子其實會讓我們一般的老百姓都會覺得心生恐懼我是一個正常的管道去投資但是在這個公司開戶之後居然我的個資是可以用這樣的一個方式洩露出去那萬一洩露到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦\n1752751\t1774824\t所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下可能我們現在就像剛剛院長講的我們通過這個詐騙犯罪妨礙委之條例之後打詐司法之後我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低但是呢現在的狀況目前看起來不是這樣目前看到這個件數越來越多那也希望這個部分院長一定要讓我們的這些相關的部會能夠針對這個打詐的這個部分能夠多多的宣傳\n1778826\t1779826\t我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多的支持\n1808797\t1831318\t那其實呢﹖您知道嗎﹖今年就有部會是買這個日本的葡萄﹖去送給這個﹖這個必須請部會要檢討﹖其實這是國安局今年買的﹖就是送禮用的﹖是國安局﹖那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果呢﹖我們都在推廣這個農民的這個權益﹖\n1842725\t1843047\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請卓院長請院長備詢徐委員好\n委員長好辛苦了我想請教一下卓院長因為今天我想要請教卓院長大概就是一些最近大家都很關心的一些議題其中第一項就是有關國土計畫法記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候我有請教過您相關的問題那我們可以看一下我們現在國土計畫法我們都可以知道就是為了國家的糧食安全所以我們現在有劃定了74到81萬公頃的必須要作為農地\n國土計劃法﹚\n我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的是農一是六萬然後農二是兩萬六千多百公頃然後屏東縣它雖然農地面積比較大但是它的農一目前只劃了五千七百七十六公頃那我想請教一下如果請教院長如果屏東可以這樣做那其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設把國有地劃設為農一私有地劃設為農二\n這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合那總歸的是全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下我們才能做這樣國土規劃的活動所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致\n各縣市政府在化農業發展區的時候除了照相關的一些化社的原則以外還會參考縣市的發展的一個情況去處理第二個部分就是說屏東縣他\n這不是看起來比較低喔 是低很多那我現在要請教的是說記得當時喔 那時候是這個\n現場是潘孟安潘縣長他在畫社這個部分的時候呢我想內政部跟農業部其實好像針對這個部分其實也都覺得這樣子做法有別於其他縣市來畫社其實是不對的那也提出了道德勸說但是最後因為畢竟嘛這個畫社分區圖是縣市的一個這個來提報的所以最後還是尊重他那先通過他的草案請問是這樣嗎\n這個我要澄清齁\n現階段的國土的相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段都沒有送到所謂的中央的部會內政部這邊來審議所以也沒有所謂說農業部退回去並沒有退回去這件事\n1540公頃要他們百分之化身為農二要求他們恢復成農醫這是在111年1月4號的第21次的演商會議所以這個部分可能我想這個資料都是明確的所以這個部分我只想請教院長就是說是不是針對國土計畫的區分法可以讓各縣市都有統一的標準這剛剛部長已經解釋過了所以我想請教院長是不是可以這樣\n現在為什麼很多的農民﹚很多的這個地方﹚農業縣的縣政府﹚對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮﹚主要就是因為 農一跟農二到底有什麼差別﹚\n我直接的說因為在溝通的過程當中我們希望用土地專業理性去溝通但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說一旦實施的農民就永世不得翻身這種政治性的操作我覺得應該要停下來請教院長農一跟農二有什麼差別從事農業來講是完全沒有差的對農業來講是完全沒有差那既然這樣的話為什麼就乾脆劃在一起就不要分農一農二呢\n我想農一農二的發生的時候在農一的時候是已經有比較多的這些基礎設施在那邊所以未來在後面的這些基礎設施的一個興建上面會有一個區別但是對農民來講是沒有差的因為其實我們現在一直說不清楚農一農二其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣就是說大家在恐嚇農民不是而是因為現在的一個\n許宇甄\n我們可以看到99%的農會也都反對這個國土計劃法為什麼?因為就是不夠了解而且這個補貼或是相關的一個配套措施或相關的法令其實都一直不清楚尤其是我們的總共會有23項的執法目前已經完成14項還有9項還沒有完成\n是這樣嗎那個請教一下部長我可不可以回答一下我跟委員報告一下那個其實國土計畫呢他有二級審議一級審議呢在縣市地方政府二級審議才到中央來那你剛有提到說在延商計畫當中被退回就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市因為他名詞或用詞不當所以其實並沒有像你所想像所以請部長可能回去查一下我時間還有包括哪一次都已經明確地告訴部長先應該\n這部份是不是請部長能夠回去查清楚那可以讓雲林縣有一個瞭解清楚整個的那種風貌如果可以的話他們就再送再把這1500公斤再歸回去院長有再三指示說一定要好好的溝通那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說就我所瞭解的部份\n其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說他們希望\n能夠保障農民的權益絕對是我想高過我們任何一個人所以當時這個潘茂安這個縣長他在擔任他為什麼會把這個私有地都化成為農耳他就是認為這樣會影響農民的權益報告委員農會農民跟農地的權益從來沒有被不保障過那如果這樣子的話非常好我想今天不管部長跟院長其實都很同意就是我們要保障農民的權益這點是有共識的對\n他們畫完以後我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論像上次雲林縣政府講的原來農業裡面有部分的地層下減區那我們覺得說地層下減區放在農業也不合理\n實質討論\n我們的配套措施還有補償措施甚至法令完成你看我們23項的執法其實經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的我們國土計畫裡面的23項裡面現在9項是在預告還有1項要討論而已所以到明年的4月30之前所謂的23項會完全全部完成所以這個部分可能請院長要特別希望縣市政府都可以跟農民講清楚\n對 剛剛是講說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別可是我們可以看到現在這張圖喔我們是依據這個國土署的這個送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的所以說為什麼會這樣子呢我們是 它有導致農地的價格會降低而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損所以呢我們根據憲法喔各位可以看一下根據憲法\n有保障人民的財產權根據釋字第444號如果國家依法行使公權利至人民的財產遭受損失也應該要形成個人的特別的犧牲也應該要給予合理的補償所以說院長您有沒有認為應該要給予農民多少的怎麼樣的補償才算是合理您心目中有沒有一個具體的一個數字\n我覺得應該跟農民朋友要說明清楚國土計劃法裡面真正它的用意如何來使用它的管制的規定那你剛剛提到農一農二為什麼要把它分開我們都混為一起2016年當初5月之前設定立這個法的時候它就這樣設定啦那除非現在我們重新再來\n我跟委員說明齁\n我們農業部對於農民或是農產業的一個支援的投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變換句話說它不是一個說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼沒通過就沒補貼\n農業部最近幾年下來我們統計\n對於農民的各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是\n民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金\n也就是說什麼都不用做就可以收40萬的租金所以說針對這個部分我們可以看一下那如果農民呢農民他們到一年的收益是多少我們可以看下一張這個是根據農糧署的給的資料農民一年下來\n包括生產然後工資利潤加起來才12萬多也就是說什麼都不用做找到這個租給供電業者就是40萬那農民自己的這個要存傳注意而且遇到像現在剛好颱風要來有可能是血本無歸也只有12最多也只有12萬多的收入所以針對這個部分院長我想\n請問院長\n光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就有40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好學本文規最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢農民是非常的不公平喔\n所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工\n請的租金的收益支持農業部所需的預算第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的不管草野立委都提出的就支持國土計劃法的修正草案將施行日期展延兩年讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備並有充足的時間跟農民溝通我在這邊代表廣大弱勢的農民請求院長\n農業部\n他對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持長年以來都實質在增加剛剛說過去年大概200多億那我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想第三個部分我覺得這個需要朝野有共識\n社會住宅\n社會住宅興建的進度可以看到既有加新完工大概是31434戶興建中大概是42956戶以絕標代開工的大概是31992戶規劃中的是15556戶所以呢根據\n院長您的這個施政報告裡面這邊的第6頁有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標可是就我們一般人看起來或我們一般人的認知已經完工的才算是已經完成的這個社會住宅\n主席\n是我想委員您講得非常的正確就是說如果我們把這個以絕標代開工的還有興建當中把它去掉的話確實在第一階段的109年底的時候我們是達標的是4萬戶而已所以您現在但是如果你把已經絕標跟新完工還有既有的加在一起的話到113年的8月底一共是106382戶\n那個是以絕標待開工﹖也就是還沒開工﹖請問還沒開工可以住嗎﹖更不可能住啊﹖當然﹖所以我的意思就是說﹖你不能把以絕標待開工﹖都當作你們已經完成的目標﹖所以技術的標準不一樣﹖包括說﹖您剛剛也特別提到﹖剛剛我們的廖偉祥﹖廖委員在提到的時候﹖您剛剛也回答說﹖也是報告裡面第7頁有的﹖\n因為我們看下一張\n審計部其實已經打臉了因為審計部這邊的報告特別提到在120年底蔡英文總統的12萬社會住宅只能蓋好98,699戶也就是說在\n報告委員我可不可以補充說明一下\n您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年針對過去啊這個蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租貸款的戶數她是依照剛剛那個數字喔她是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的喔包括說20113年到8月底大概可以有37,017我們也看到審計部的報告所以我們現在重新在規劃的部分的話所以跟您剛剛提到的包括這個報告有非常大的落差\n部長最後一句話你應該讓他說完\n省計部的報告也許他是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演那現在我們也看到執行上目前遇到的這些比較慢的速度所以他用多元的方式在取得土地甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作\n議員長我這邊提出來就是要讓官院長或部長瞭解對這個部分其實這個數字就是會說謊目前的狀況也是這樣所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題來去加速這個社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點\n社會住宅基本上是住宅中心執行的你知道520之後內政部很多人都希望調到住宅中心去你知道為什麼嗎\n住都中心它現在是一個算是民間的基金會它比較不受公務員的影響但是問題是住都中心的工作量也非常的大我不曉得有沒有這個原因但是我知道的狀況是院長您的薪資我們可以看到大概一個月是346,960這是院長的薪資那我們可以看到像一張住都中心的執行長一個月就有302,848還不包含主管家籍\n所以你就知道為什麼住都中心他在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億職員有460人比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多就是因為他們都坐臨高薪坐臨高薪如果可以把事情做好其實我們也都認同但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後所以我們可以看到這個\n這個部分是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分能夠了解清楚為什麼這個我們的住都中心坐領這麼高的薪水可是呢就沒有辦法達到這樣的效果本來在我們通過住都中心的這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來所以其實我並沒有做更動那第二個呢住都中心呢在\n賴總統上任之後加速在全台灣各地包括在金門、馬祖、離島的地方都有住都中心要蓋的社會住宅所以其實他們是非常的忙碌的部長其實在112年的審計部的決算報告也提出了很多住都中心的一些問題包括說租金收入未達領口次大運的租金收入未達新辦事業計畫的預期還有出租人或業者藝林補助費用等等相關的問題很多\n那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前甚至我們還聽到很多部長我甚至還聽到很多就說你在住宿中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宿中心暫缺但是是在部會任職\n所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姐姐長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎好\n另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話\n有的話請舉手都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息受過詐騙集團的電話來電這幾年下來我們對於認識詐騙的各種的宣導還是有一些成效但是我還是承認詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛苦\n那我想這個部分我們可以先看一下行事警察局在這7年來他們有一個這個詐騙的案件跟金額的統計你可以看到的就是到去年底他的這個詐騙的件數來到了37984那詐騙的金額也到88.7億元那請問主委院長針對打詐這個中心講說他們現在的這個打詐成績其實越來越好那請問院長您對這個成績滿意嗎\n我們看下一張\n我們現在有一個打債預報板 行政署的打債預報板我現在只有列出7月跟8月的這個受理案件數跟這個財損金額光7月就111億光8月就137億就光這兩個月就這麼高的一個這個財損的一個金額\n好的,好的\n打詐儀表板就是我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數所以就是每一天都會公佈打詐儀表板所以說表示現在這個是沒有黑數的其實我們已經把它更動也就是說一人一案而不是像以前很多人一案還有一個詐騙的金額的部分是他們主觀認定跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些\n打架打架成效不彰過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據那現在我們已經經過大院也審定了打架新法這個理由絕對不存在我們希望能夠\n主席主席\n當然我們也希望說我們的這個宣導要用在對的地方用在對的人還有就是因為其實年輕人被詐騙的居多那他們其實都習慣用網路尤其是我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區你可以看一下就裡面有很多金融防詐的一個資訊點進去看你可以看一下就是\n瀏覽的人次大概從2489到5809不等大概瀏覽人次這樣你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了\n許宇甄議員\n關於我們自己金管會的網站就有這樣子的問題了所以是不是應該 院長您應該要請他們要改進但是也跟委員報告透過金管會跟財政部我們的公民銀行戶在零貴的服務方面對於打詐的這個功能是展現出來的\n他們的服務已經超越了原來的工作上的職務所以金管會跟財政部跟公民銀行他們的宣導是多樣性的那這一點確實需要加強我們再請彭主委加強能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑更有直線式效應\n我警官會特別注意\n請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎\n也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶說要委託書嗎我這邊就有一個實際的例子就是我的助理就接到這樣的電話就是他在那個這個星光金有這樣的一個股票然後營業員打給他要不要\n可不可以把他的委託書給他我覺得這樣子的就像剛剛院長講的就是個資的問題可能就因為這樣的洩漏而且像這樣子的一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資來這個洩密出去那說實在我們現在打詐都不利了還只有這樣子的公司居然是做這樣的一個狀況那請問院長你覺得這個部分應該來怎麼處理\n報告委員我想這個案子我私底下再跟委員請教一下我們會來請同仁去了解一下我覺得這樣子其實會讓我們一般的老百姓都會覺得心生恐懼我是一個正常的管道去投資但是在這個公司開戶之後居然我的個資是可以用這樣的一個方式洩露出去那萬一洩露到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦\n所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下可能我們現在就像剛剛院長講的我們通過這個詐騙犯罪妨礙委之條例之後打詐司法之後我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低但是呢現在的狀況目前看起來不是這樣目前看到這個件數越來越多那也希望這個部分院長一定要讓我們的這些相關的部會能夠針對這個打詐的這個部分能夠多多的宣傳\n我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多的支持\n那其實呢﹖您知道嗎﹖今年就有部會是買這個日本的葡萄﹖去送給這個﹖這個必須請部會要檢討﹖其實這是國安局今年買的﹖就是送禮用的﹖是國安局﹖那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果呢﹖我們都在推廣這個農民的這個權益﹖\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.133 --> 00:20.717\n謝謝主席我們請卓院長請院長備詢徐委員好\n\n00:31.491 --> 00:59.270\n委員長好辛苦了我想請教一下卓院長因為今天我想要請教卓院長大概就是一些最近大家都很關心的一些議題其中第一項就是有關國土計畫法記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候我有請教過您相關的問題那我們可以看一下我們現在國土計畫法我們都可以知道就是為了國家的糧食安全所以我們現在有劃定了74到81萬公頃的必須要作為農地\n\n01:00.452 --> 01:00.492\n國土計劃法﹚\n\n01:13.510 --> 01:40.625\n我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的是農一是六萬然後農二是兩萬六千多百公頃然後屏東縣它雖然農地面積比較大但是它的農一目前只劃了五千七百七十六公頃那我想請教一下如果請教院長如果屏東可以這樣做那其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設把國有地劃設為農一私有地劃設為農二\n\n01:42.407 --> 01:57.248\n這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合那總歸的是全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下我們才能做這樣國土規劃的活動所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致\n\n02:00.532 --> 02:13.545\n各縣市政府在化農業發展區的時候除了照相關的一些化社的原則以外還會參考縣市的發展的一個情況去處理第二個部分就是說屏東縣他\n\n02:15.006 --> 02:17.389\n這不是看起來比較低喔是低很多那我現在要請教的是說記得當時喔那時候是這個\n\n02:30.926 --> 02:55.933\n現場是潘孟安潘縣長他在畫社這個部分的時候呢我想內政部跟農業部其實好像針對這個部分其實也都覺得這樣子做法有別於其他縣市來畫社其實是不對的那也提出了道德勸說但是最後因為畢竟嘛這個畫社分區圖是縣市的一個這個來提報的所以最後還是尊重他那先通過他的草案請問是這樣嗎\n\n02:57.822 --> 02:58.203\n這個我要澄清齁\n\n03:25.967 --> 03:40.158\n現階段的國土的相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段都沒有送到所謂的中央的部會內政部這邊來審議所以也沒有所謂說農業部退回去並沒有退回去這件事\n\n03:47.184 --> 04:14.579\n1540公頃要他們百分之化身為農二要求他們恢復成農醫這是在111年1月4號的第21次的演商會議所以這個部分可能我想這個資料都是明確的所以這個部分我只想請教院長就是說是不是針對國土計畫的區分法可以讓各縣市都有統一的標準這剛剛部長已經解釋過了所以我想請教院長是不是可以這樣\n\n04:16.155 --> 04:18.716\n現在為什麼很多的農民﹚很多的這個地方﹚農業縣的縣政府﹚對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮﹚主要就是因為農一跟農二到底有什麼差別﹚\n\n04:39.048 --> 05:00.323\n我直接的說因為在溝通的過程當中我們希望用土地專業理性去溝通但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說一旦實施的農民就永世不得翻身這種政治性的操作我覺得應該要停下來請教院長農一跟農二有什麼差別從事農業來講是完全沒有差的對農業來講是完全沒有差那既然這樣的話為什麼就乾脆劃在一起就不要分農一農二呢\n\n05:06.857 --> 05:28.087\n我想農一農二的發生的時候在農一的時候是已經有比較多的這些基礎設施在那邊所以未來在後面的這些基礎設施的一個興建上面會有一個區別但是對農民來講是沒有差的因為其實我們現在一直說不清楚農一農二其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣就是說大家在恐嚇農民不是而是因為現在的一個\n\n05:28.567 --> 05:28.667\n許宇甄\n\n05:45.112 --> 06:06.638\n我們可以看到99%的農會也都反對這個國土計劃法為什麼?因為就是不夠了解而且這個補貼或是相關的一個配套措施或相關的法令其實都一直不清楚尤其是我們的總共會有23項的執法目前已經完成14項還有9項還沒有完成\n\n06:07.597 --> 06:34.594\n是這樣嗎那個請教一下部長我可不可以回答一下我跟委員報告一下那個其實國土計畫呢他有二級審議一級審議呢在縣市地方政府二級審議才到中央來那你剛有提到說在延商計畫當中被退回就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市因為他名詞或用詞不當所以其實並沒有像你所想像所以請部長可能回去查一下我時間還有包括哪一次都已經明確地告訴部長先應該\n\n06:37.056 --> 06:41.880\n這部份是不是請部長能夠回去查清楚那可以讓雲林縣有一個瞭解清楚整個的那種風貌如果可以的話他們就再送再把這1500公斤再歸回去院長有再三指示說一定要好好的溝通那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說就我所瞭解的部份\n\n06:59.335 --> 06:59.816\n其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說他們希望\n\n07:21.997 --> 07:47.655\n能夠保障農民的權益絕對是我想高過我們任何一個人所以當時這個潘茂安這個縣長他在擔任他為什麼會把這個私有地都化成為農耳他就是認為這樣會影響農民的權益報告委員農會農民跟農地的權益從來沒有被不保障過那如果這樣子的話非常好我想今天不管部長跟院長其實都很同意就是我們要保障農民的權益這點是有共識的對\n\n07:48.976 --> 07:52.718\n他們畫完以後我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論像上次雲林縣政府講的原來農業裡面有部分的地層下減區那我們覺得說地層下減區放在農業也不合理\n\n08:31.163 --> 08:51.395\n我們的配套措施還有補償措施甚至法令完成你看我們23項的執法其實經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的我們國土計畫裡面的23項裡面現在9項是在預告還有1項要討論而已所以到明年的4月30之前所謂的23項會完全全部完成所以這個部分可能請院長要特別希望縣市政府都可以跟農民講清楚\n\n09:00.421 --> 09:21.612\n對剛剛是講說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別可是我們可以看到現在這張圖喔我們是依據這個國土署的這個送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的所以說為什麼會這樣子呢我們是它有導致農地的價格會降低而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損所以呢我們根據憲法喔各位可以看一下根據憲法\n\n09:24.445 --> 09:46.715\n有保障人民的財產權根據釋字第444號如果國家依法行使公權利至人民的財產遭受損失也應該要形成個人的特別的犧牲也應該要給予合理的補償所以說院長您有沒有認為應該要給予農民多少的怎麼樣的補償才算是合理您心目中有沒有一個具體的一個數字\n\n09:48.117 --> 10:06.733\n我覺得應該跟農民朋友要說明清楚國土計劃法裡面真正它的用意如何來使用它的管制的規定那你剛剛提到農一農二為什麼要把它分開我們都混為一起2016年當初5月之前設定立這個法的時候它就這樣設定啦那除非現在我們重新再來\n\n10:07.193 --> 10:07.593\n我跟委員說明齁\n\n10:35.738 --> 10:50.653\n我們農業部對於農民或是農產業的一個支援的投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變換句話說它不是一個說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼沒通過就沒補貼\n\n10:51.414 --> 10:51.654\n農業部最近幾年下來我們統計\n\n11:15.593 --> 11:43.856\n對於農民的各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是\n\n11:44.617 --> 12:06.022\n民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金\n\n12:06.977 --> 12:22.774\n也就是說什麼都不用做就可以收40萬的租金所以說針對這個部分我們可以看一下那如果農民呢農民他們到一年的收益是多少我們可以看下一張這個是根據農糧署的給的資料農民一年下來\n\n12:23.695 --> 12:42.558\n包括生產然後工資利潤加起來才12萬多也就是說什麼都不用做找到這個租給供電業者就是40萬那農民自己的這個要存傳注意而且遇到像現在剛好颱風要來有可能是血本無歸也只有12最多也只有12萬多的收入所以針對這個部分院長我想\n\n12:43.579 --> 12:43.599\n請問院長\n\n12:56.604 --> 13:23.691\n光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就有40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好學本文規最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢農民是非常的不公平喔\n\n13:24.151 --> 13:52.595\n所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工\n\n13:53.615 --> 14:16.133\n請的租金的收益支持農業部所需的預算第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的不管草野立委都提出的就支持國土計劃法的修正草案將施行日期展延兩年讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備並有充足的時間跟農民溝通我在這邊代表廣大弱勢的農民請求院長\n\n14:17.434 --> 14:17.454\n農業部\n\n14:33.906 --> 14:48.104\n他對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持長年以來都實質在增加剛剛說過去年大概200多億那我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想第三個部分我覺得這個需要朝野有共識\n\n14:49.185 --> 14:49.285\n社會住宅\n\n15:13.567 --> 15:22.313\n社會住宅興建的進度可以看到既有加新完工大概是31434戶興建中大概是42956戶以絕標代開工的大概是31992戶規劃中的是15556戶所以呢根據\n\n15:35.262 --> 15:53.067\n院長您的這個施政報告裡面這邊的第6頁有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標可是就我們一般人看起來或我們一般人的認知已經完工的才算是已經完成的這個社會住宅\n\n15:53.607 --> 15:53.727\n主席\n\n16:11.471 --> 16:35.711\n是我想委員您講得非常的正確就是說如果我們把這個以絕標代開工的還有興建當中把它去掉的話確實在第一階段的109年底的時候我們是達標的是4萬戶而已所以您現在但是如果你把已經絕標跟新完工還有既有的加在一起的話到113年的8月底一共是106382戶\n\n16:39.017 --> 17:01.733\n那個是以絕標待開工﹖也就是還沒開工﹖請問還沒開工可以住嗎﹖更不可能住啊﹖當然﹖所以我的意思就是說﹖你不能把以絕標待開工﹖都當作你們已經完成的目標﹖所以技術的標準不一樣﹖包括說﹖您剛剛也特別提到﹖剛剛我們的廖偉祥﹖廖委員在提到的時候﹖您剛剛也回答說﹖也是報告裡面第7頁有的﹖\n\n17:02.734 --> 17:03.354\n因為我們看下一張\n\n17:22.276 --> 17:32.691\n審計部其實已經打臉了因為審計部這邊的報告特別提到在120年底蔡英文總統的12萬社會住宅只能蓋好98,699戶也就是說在\n\n17:37.728 --> 17:38.648\n報告委員我可不可以補充說明一下\n\n18:01.335 --> 18:28.826\n您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年針對過去啊這個蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租貸款的戶數她是依照剛剛那個數字喔她是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的喔包括說20113年到8月底大概可以有37,017我們也看到審計部的報告所以我們現在重新在規劃的部分的話所以跟您剛剛提到的包括這個報告有非常大的落差\n\n18:29.366 --> 18:29.767\n部長最後一句話你應該讓他說完\n\n18:45.871 --> 19:02.194\n省計部的報告也許他是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演那現在我們也看到執行上目前遇到的這些比較慢的速度所以他用多元的方式在取得土地甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作\n\n19:03.015 --> 19:13.969\n議員長我這邊提出來就是要讓官院長或部長瞭解對這個部分其實這個數字就是會說謊目前的狀況也是這樣所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題來去加速這個社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點\n\n19:22.700 --> 19:29.646\n社會住宅基本上是住宅中心執行的你知道520之後內政部很多人都希望調到住宅中心去你知道為什麼嗎\n\n19:39.347 --> 20:06.668\n住都中心它現在是一個算是民間的基金會它比較不受公務員的影響但是問題是住都中心的工作量也非常的大我不曉得有沒有這個原因但是我知道的狀況是院長您的薪資我們可以看到大概一個月是346,960這是院長的薪資那我們可以看到像一張住都中心的執行長一個月就有302,848還不包含主管家籍\n\n20:07.737 --> 20:31.056\n所以你就知道為什麼住都中心他在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億職員有460人比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多就是因為他們都坐臨高薪坐臨高薪如果可以把事情做好其實我們也都認同但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後所以我們可以看到這個\n\n20:32.297 --> 20:51.896\n這個部分是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分能夠了解清楚為什麼這個我們的住都中心坐領這麼高的薪水可是呢就沒有辦法達到這樣的效果本來在我們通過住都中心的這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來所以其實我並沒有做更動那第二個呢住都中心呢在\n\n20:53.336 --> 21:18.264\n賴總統上任之後加速在全台灣各地包括在金門、馬祖、離島的地方都有住都中心要蓋的社會住宅所以其實他們是非常的忙碌的部長其實在112年的審計部的決算報告也提出了很多住都中心的一些問題包括說租金收入未達領口次大運的租金收入未達新辦事業計畫的預期還有出租人或業者藝林補助費用等等相關的問題很多\n\n21:19.364 --> 21:48.087\n那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前甚至我們還聽到很多部長我甚至還聽到很多就說你在住宿中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宿中心暫缺但是是在部會任職\n\n21:49.088 --> 21:59.489\n所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姐姐長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎好\n\n22:02.089 --> 22:28.600\n另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話\n\n22:32.602 --> 22:39.327\n有的話請舉手都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息受過詐騙集團的電話來電這幾年下來我們對於認識詐騙的各種的宣導還是有一些成效但是我還是承認詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛苦\n\n22:54.938 --> 23:11.691\n那我想這個部分我們可以先看一下行事警察局在這7年來他們有一個這個詐騙的案件跟金額的統計你可以看到的就是到去年底他的這個詐騙的件數來到了37984那詐騙的金額也到88.7億元那請問主委院長針對打詐這個中心講說他們現在的這個打詐成績其實越來越好那請問院長您對這個成績滿意嗎\n\n23:25.202 --> 23:25.523\n我們看下一張\n\n23:43.228 --> 23:55.960\n我們現在有一個打債預報板行政署的打債預報板我現在只有列出7月跟8月的這個受理案件數跟這個財損金額光7月就111億光8月就137億就光這兩個月就這麼高的一個這個財損的一個金額\n\n24:04.087 --> 24:04.307\n好的,好的\n\n24:32.597 --> 24:55.732\n打詐儀表板就是我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數所以就是每一天都會公佈打詐儀表板所以說表示現在這個是沒有黑數的其實我們已經把它更動也就是說一人一案而不是像以前很多人一案還有一個詐騙的金額的部分是他們主觀認定跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些\n\n25:01.589 --> 25:14.105\n打架打架成效不彰過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據那現在我們已經經過大院也審定了打架新法這個理由絕對不存在我們希望能夠\n\n25:15.026 --> 25:15.847\n主席主席\n\n25:36.609 --> 25:58.681\n當然我們也希望說我們的這個宣導要用在對的地方用在對的人還有就是因為其實年輕人被詐騙的居多那他們其實都習慣用網路尤其是我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區你可以看一下就裡面有很多金融防詐的一個資訊點進去看你可以看一下就是\n\n26:00.480 --> 26:17.766\n瀏覽的人次大概從2489到5809不等大概瀏覽人次這樣你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了\n\n26:18.709 --> 26:18.909\n許宇甄議員\n\n26:39.989 --> 26:56.194\n關於我們自己金管會的網站就有這樣子的問題了所以是不是應該院長您應該要請他們要改進但是也跟委員報告透過金管會跟財政部我們的公民銀行戶在零貴的服務方面對於打詐的這個功能是展現出來的\n\n26:56.974 --> 27:08.639\n他們的服務已經超越了原來的工作上的職務所以金管會跟財政部跟公民銀行他們的宣導是多樣性的那這一點確實需要加強我們再請彭主委加強能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑更有直線式效應\n\n27:16.903 --> 27:17.163\n我警官會特別注意\n\n27:32.595 --> 27:36.316\n請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎\n\n28:01.670 --> 28:24.627\n也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶說要委託書嗎我這邊就有一個實際的例子就是我的助理就接到這樣的電話就是他在那個這個星光金有這樣的一個股票然後營業員打給他要不要\n\n28:25.327 --> 28:44.143\n可不可以把他的委託書給他我覺得這樣子的就像剛剛院長講的就是個資的問題可能就因為這樣的洩漏而且像這樣子的一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資來這個洩密出去那說實在我們現在打詐都不利了還只有這樣子的公司居然是做這樣的一個狀況那請問院長你覺得這個部分應該來怎麼處理\n\n28:47.746 --> 29:11.811\n報告委員我想這個案子我私底下再跟委員請教一下我們會來請同仁去了解一下我覺得這樣子其實會讓我們一般的老百姓都會覺得心生恐懼我是一個正常的管道去投資但是在這個公司開戶之後居然我的個資是可以用這樣的一個方式洩露出去那萬一洩露到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦\n\n29:12.751 --> 29:34.824\n所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下可能我們現在就像剛剛院長講的我們通過這個詐騙犯罪妨礙委之條例之後打詐司法之後我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低但是呢現在的狀況目前看起來不是這樣目前看到這個件數越來越多那也希望這個部分院長一定要讓我們的這些相關的部會能夠針對這個打詐的這個部分能夠多多的宣傳\n\n29:38.826 --> 29:39.826\n我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多的支持\n\n30:08.797 --> 30:31.318\n那其實呢﹖您知道嗎﹖今年就有部會是買這個日本的葡萄﹖去送給這個﹖這個必須請部會要檢討﹖其實這是國安局今年買的﹖就是送禮用的﹖是國安局﹖那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果呢﹖我們都在推廣這個農民的這個權益﹖\n\n30:42.725 --> 30:43.047\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.133,"end":20.717,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請卓院長請院長備詢徐委員好"},{"start":31.491,"end":59.27,"text":"委員長好辛苦了我想請教一下卓院長因為今天我想要請教卓院長大概就是一些最近大家都很關心的一些議題其中第一項就是有關國土計畫法記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候我有請教過您相關的問題那我們可以看一下我們現在國土計畫法我們都可以知道就是為了國家的糧食安全所以我們現在有劃定了74到81萬公頃的必須要作為農地"},{"start":60.452,"end":60.492,"text":"國土計劃法﹚"},{"start":73.51,"end":100.625,"text":"我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的是農一是六萬然後農二是兩萬六千多百公頃然後屏東縣它雖然農地面積比較大但是它的農一目前只劃了五千七百七十六公頃那我想請教一下如果請教院長如果屏東可以這樣做那其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設把國有地劃設為農一私有地劃設為農二"},{"start":102.407,"end":117.248,"text":"這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合那總歸的是全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下我們才能做這樣國土規劃的活動所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致"},{"start":120.532,"end":133.545,"text":"各縣市政府在化農業發展區的時候除了照相關的一些化社的原則以外還會參考縣市的發展的一個情況去處理第二個部分就是說屏東縣他"},{"start":135.006,"end":137.389,"text":"這不是看起來比較低喔 是低很多那我現在要請教的是說記得當時喔 那時候是這個"},{"start":150.926,"end":175.933,"text":"現場是潘孟安潘縣長他在畫社這個部分的時候呢我想內政部跟農業部其實好像針對這個部分其實也都覺得這樣子做法有別於其他縣市來畫社其實是不對的那也提出了道德勸說但是最後因為畢竟嘛這個畫社分區圖是縣市的一個這個來提報的所以最後還是尊重他那先通過他的草案請問是這樣嗎"},{"start":177.822,"end":178.203,"text":"這個我要澄清齁"},{"start":205.967,"end":220.158,"text":"現階段的國土的相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段都沒有送到所謂的中央的部會內政部這邊來審議所以也沒有所謂說農業部退回去並沒有退回去這件事"},{"start":227.184,"end":254.579,"text":"1540公頃要他們百分之化身為農二要求他們恢復成農醫這是在111年1月4號的第21次的演商會議所以這個部分可能我想這個資料都是明確的所以這個部分我只想請教院長就是說是不是針對國土計畫的區分法可以讓各縣市都有統一的標準這剛剛部長已經解釋過了所以我想請教院長是不是可以這樣"},{"start":256.155,"end":258.716,"text":"現在為什麼很多的農民﹚很多的這個地方﹚農業縣的縣政府﹚對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮﹚主要就是因為 農一跟農二到底有什麼差別﹚"},{"start":279.048,"end":300.323,"text":"我直接的說因為在溝通的過程當中我們希望用土地專業理性去溝通但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說一旦實施的農民就永世不得翻身這種政治性的操作我覺得應該要停下來請教院長農一跟農二有什麼差別從事農業來講是完全沒有差的對農業來講是完全沒有差那既然這樣的話為什麼就乾脆劃在一起就不要分農一農二呢"},{"start":306.857,"end":328.087,"text":"我想農一農二的發生的時候在農一的時候是已經有比較多的這些基礎設施在那邊所以未來在後面的這些基礎設施的一個興建上面會有一個區別但是對農民來講是沒有差的因為其實我們現在一直說不清楚農一農二其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣就是說大家在恐嚇農民不是而是因為現在的一個"},{"start":328.567,"end":328.667,"text":"許宇甄"},{"start":345.112,"end":366.638,"text":"我們可以看到99%的農會也都反對這個國土計劃法為什麼?因為就是不夠了解而且這個補貼或是相關的一個配套措施或相關的法令其實都一直不清楚尤其是我們的總共會有23項的執法目前已經完成14項還有9項還沒有完成"},{"start":367.597,"end":394.594,"text":"是這樣嗎那個請教一下部長我可不可以回答一下我跟委員報告一下那個其實國土計畫呢他有二級審議一級審議呢在縣市地方政府二級審議才到中央來那你剛有提到說在延商計畫當中被退回就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市因為他名詞或用詞不當所以其實並沒有像你所想像所以請部長可能回去查一下我時間還有包括哪一次都已經明確地告訴部長先應該"},{"start":397.056,"end":401.88,"text":"這部份是不是請部長能夠回去查清楚那可以讓雲林縣有一個瞭解清楚整個的那種風貌如果可以的話他們就再送再把這1500公斤再歸回去院長有再三指示說一定要好好的溝通那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說就我所瞭解的部份"},{"start":419.335,"end":419.816,"text":"其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說他們希望"},{"start":441.997,"end":467.655,"text":"能夠保障農民的權益絕對是我想高過我們任何一個人所以當時這個潘茂安這個縣長他在擔任他為什麼會把這個私有地都化成為農耳他就是認為這樣會影響農民的權益報告委員農會農民跟農地的權益從來沒有被不保障過那如果這樣子的話非常好我想今天不管部長跟院長其實都很同意就是我們要保障農民的權益這點是有共識的對"},{"start":468.976,"end":472.718,"text":"他們畫完以後我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論像上次雲林縣政府講的原來農業裡面有部分的地層下減區那我們覺得說地層下減區放在農業也不合理"},{"start":494.206,"end":510.282,"text":"實質討論"},{"start":511.163,"end":531.395,"text":"我們的配套措施還有補償措施甚至法令完成你看我們23項的執法其實經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的我們國土計畫裡面的23項裡面現在9項是在預告還有1項要討論而已所以到明年的4月30之前所謂的23項會完全全部完成所以這個部分可能請院長要特別希望縣市政府都可以跟農民講清楚"},{"start":540.421,"end":561.612,"text":"對 剛剛是講說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別可是我們可以看到現在這張圖喔我們是依據這個國土署的這個送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的所以說為什麼會這樣子呢我們是 它有導致農地的價格會降低而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損所以呢我們根據憲法喔各位可以看一下根據憲法"},{"start":564.445,"end":586.715,"text":"有保障人民的財產權根據釋字第444號如果國家依法行使公權利至人民的財產遭受損失也應該要形成個人的特別的犧牲也應該要給予合理的補償所以說院長您有沒有認為應該要給予農民多少的怎麼樣的補償才算是合理您心目中有沒有一個具體的一個數字"},{"start":588.117,"end":606.733,"text":"我覺得應該跟農民朋友要說明清楚國土計劃法裡面真正它的用意如何來使用它的管制的規定那你剛剛提到農一農二為什麼要把它分開我們都混為一起2016年當初5月之前設定立這個法的時候它就這樣設定啦那除非現在我們重新再來"},{"start":607.193,"end":607.593,"text":"我跟委員說明齁"},{"start":635.738,"end":650.653,"text":"我們農業部對於農民或是農產業的一個支援的投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變換句話說它不是一個說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼沒通過就沒補貼"},{"start":651.414,"end":651.654,"text":"農業部最近幾年下來我們統計"},{"start":675.593,"end":703.856,"text":"對於農民的各項的補貼政策所使用的經費預算都相當的足夠那我記得說2023年我是指這個堆疊式的補貼堆疊式的補貼到目前為止我們在沒有新增加的情況之下大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身我給這個院長跟部長看一個數字就是"},{"start":704.617,"end":726.022,"text":"民進黨政府大量的推動綠能所以我們可以看到如果我們在今年應該明年114年度的預算台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力那請問院長你知道這個農地你可以看到我們租給太陽能的業者的話一年可以收多少的租金40萬的租金"},{"start":726.977,"end":742.774,"text":"也就是說什麼都不用做就可以收40萬的租金所以說針對這個部分我們可以看一下那如果農民呢農民他們到一年的收益是多少我們可以看下一張這個是根據農糧署的給的資料農民一年下來"},{"start":743.695,"end":762.558,"text":"包括生產然後工資利潤加起來才12萬多也就是說什麼都不用做找到這個租給供電業者就是40萬那農民自己的這個要存傳注意而且遇到像現在剛好颱風要來有可能是血本無歸也只有12最多也只有12萬多的收入所以針對這個部分院長我想"},{"start":763.579,"end":763.599,"text":"請問院長"},{"start":776.604,"end":803.691,"text":"光電的補貼我們還是希望農漁民還是從事他的生產啊這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊對啊但是呢問題是不利耕作的他只要租給光電一年就有40萬的收益那什麼我們這個優良農地的農民需要很努力很用心的而且一整年喔這個可以說有可能搞不好學本文規最多也就12萬多這個實在是對我們的這個弱勢農民是非常的不公平喔"},{"start":804.151,"end":832.595,"text":"所以本期在這邊有具體的三個主張請院長聽看看第一個就是希望院長能夠能夠召集跨部會的業務因為現在就有農業部內政部甚至可能還有其他部會那我們希望說能夠盡速的制定國土計劃法施行後的完整的配套以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失第二個希望農業部應該針對有受限制及有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼那行政院也希望能夠參考太陽能光電美工"},{"start":833.615,"end":856.133,"text":"請的租金的收益支持農業部所需的預算第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的不管草野立委都提出的就支持國土計劃法的修正草案將施行日期展延兩年讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備並有充足的時間跟農民溝通我在這邊代表廣大弱勢的農民請求院長"},{"start":857.434,"end":857.454,"text":"農業部"},{"start":873.906,"end":888.104,"text":"他對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持長年以來都實質在增加剛剛說過去年大概200多億那我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想第三個部分我覺得這個需要朝野有共識"},{"start":889.185,"end":889.285,"text":"社會住宅"},{"start":913.567,"end":922.313,"text":"社會住宅興建的進度可以看到既有加新完工大概是31434戶興建中大概是42956戶以絕標代開工的大概是31992戶規劃中的是15556戶所以呢根據"},{"start":935.262,"end":953.067,"text":"院長您的這個施政報告裡面這邊的第6頁有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標可是就我們一般人看起來或我們一般人的認知已經完工的才算是已經完成的這個社會住宅"},{"start":953.607,"end":953.727,"text":"主席"},{"start":971.471,"end":995.711,"text":"是我想委員您講得非常的正確就是說如果我們把這個以絕標代開工的還有興建當中把它去掉的話確實在第一階段的109年底的時候我們是達標的是4萬戶而已所以您現在但是如果你把已經絕標跟新完工還有既有的加在一起的話到113年的8月底一共是106382戶"},{"start":999.017,"end":1021.733,"text":"那個是以絕標待開工﹖也就是還沒開工﹖請問還沒開工可以住嗎﹖更不可能住啊﹖當然﹖所以我的意思就是說﹖你不能把以絕標待開工﹖都當作你們已經完成的目標﹖所以技術的標準不一樣﹖包括說﹖您剛剛也特別提到﹖剛剛我們的廖偉祥﹖廖委員在提到的時候﹖您剛剛也回答說﹖也是報告裡面第7頁有的﹖"},{"start":1022.734,"end":1023.354,"text":"因為我們看下一張"},{"start":1042.276,"end":1052.691,"text":"審計部其實已經打臉了因為審計部這邊的報告特別提到在120年底蔡英文總統的12萬社會住宅只能蓋好98,699戶也就是說在"},{"start":1057.728,"end":1058.648,"text":"報告委員我可不可以補充說明一下"},{"start":1081.335,"end":1108.826,"text":"您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年針對過去啊這個蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租貸款的戶數她是依照剛剛那個數字喔她是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的喔包括說20113年到8月底大概可以有37,017我們也看到審計部的報告所以我們現在重新在規劃的部分的話所以跟您剛剛提到的包括這個報告有非常大的落差"},{"start":1109.366,"end":1109.767,"text":"部長最後一句話你應該讓他說完"},{"start":1125.871,"end":1142.194,"text":"省計部的報告也許他是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演那現在我們也看到執行上目前遇到的這些比較慢的速度所以他用多元的方式在取得土地甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作"},{"start":1143.015,"end":1153.969,"text":"議員長我這邊提出來就是要讓官院長或部長瞭解對這個部分其實這個數字就是會說謊目前的狀況也是這樣所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題來去加速這個社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點"},{"start":1162.7,"end":1169.646,"text":"社會住宅基本上是住宅中心執行的你知道520之後內政部很多人都希望調到住宅中心去你知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":1179.347,"end":1206.668,"text":"住都中心它現在是一個算是民間的基金會它比較不受公務員的影響但是問題是住都中心的工作量也非常的大我不曉得有沒有這個原因但是我知道的狀況是院長您的薪資我們可以看到大概一個月是346,960這是院長的薪資那我們可以看到像一張住都中心的執行長一個月就有302,848還不包含主管家籍"},{"start":1207.737,"end":1231.056,"text":"所以你就知道為什麼住都中心他在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億職員有460人比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多就是因為他們都坐臨高薪坐臨高薪如果可以把事情做好其實我們也都認同但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後所以我們可以看到這個"},{"start":1232.297,"end":1251.896,"text":"這個部分是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分能夠了解清楚為什麼這個我們的住都中心坐領這麼高的薪水可是呢就沒有辦法達到這樣的效果本來在我們通過住都中心的這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來所以其實我並沒有做更動那第二個呢住都中心呢在"},{"start":1253.336,"end":1278.264,"text":"賴總統上任之後加速在全台灣各地包括在金門、馬祖、離島的地方都有住都中心要蓋的社會住宅所以其實他們是非常的忙碌的部長其實在112年的審計部的決算報告也提出了很多住都中心的一些問題包括說租金收入未達領口次大運的租金收入未達新辦事業計畫的預期還有出租人或業者藝林補助費用等等相關的問題很多"},{"start":1279.364,"end":1308.087,"text":"那他們就很高興而且有很大的問題那不需要檢討嗎報告如果您提到林口社宅的部分其中有一部分作為清創基地在林口社宅完全交接之前甚至我們還聽到很多部長我甚至還聽到很多就說你在住宿中心去如果你後台不夠硬還進不去我就知道我就已經有人跟我講說就有一位是民進黨選過議員落選的人現在也在住宿中心暫缺但是是在部會任職"},{"start":1309.088,"end":1319.489,"text":"所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成這個民進黨的退福會還是這個肥貓養成中心那是不是只能夠姐姐長能夠了解清楚之後在一個月之內給我報告好嗎好"},{"start":1322.089,"end":1348.6,"text":"另外我再請教院長就是詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的目前的話因為我們不管是行動電話的使用率或者是網路的使用率其實都非常的高有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話我想請教院長部長跟在座的官員請問你或是你的家人有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話"},{"start":1352.602,"end":1359.327,"text":"有的話請舉手都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息受過詐騙集團的電話來電這幾年下來我們對於認識詐騙的各種的宣導還是有一些成效但是我還是承認詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛苦"},{"start":1374.938,"end":1391.691,"text":"那我想這個部分我們可以先看一下行事警察局在這7年來他們有一個這個詐騙的案件跟金額的統計你可以看到的就是到去年底他的這個詐騙的件數來到了37984那詐騙的金額也到88.7億元那請問主委院長針對打詐這個中心講說他們現在的這個打詐成績其實越來越好那請問院長您對這個成績滿意嗎"},{"start":1405.202,"end":1405.523,"text":"我們看下一張"},{"start":1423.228,"end":1435.96,"text":"我們現在有一個打債預報板 行政署的打債預報板我現在只有列出7月跟8月的這個受理案件數跟這個財損金額光7月就111億光8月就137億就光這兩個月就這麼高的一個這個財損的一個金額"},{"start":1444.087,"end":1444.307,"text":"好的,好的"},{"start":1472.597,"end":1495.732,"text":"打詐儀表板就是我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數所以就是每一天都會公佈打詐儀表板所以說表示現在這個是沒有黑數的其實我們已經把它更動也就是說一人一案而不是像以前很多人一案還有一個詐騙的金額的部分是他們主觀認定跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些"},{"start":1501.589,"end":1514.105,"text":"打架打架成效不彰過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據那現在我們已經經過大院也審定了打架新法這個理由絕對不存在我們希望能夠"},{"start":1515.026,"end":1515.847,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":1536.609,"end":1558.681,"text":"當然我們也希望說我們的這個宣導要用在對的地方用在對的人還有就是因為其實年輕人被詐騙的居多那他們其實都習慣用網路尤其是我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區你可以看一下就裡面有很多金融防詐的一個資訊點進去看你可以看一下就是"},{"start":1560.48,"end":1577.766,"text":"瀏覽的人次大概從2489到5809不等大概瀏覽人次這樣你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了"},{"start":1578.709,"end":1578.909,"text":"許宇甄議員"},{"start":1599.989,"end":1616.194,"text":"關於我們自己金管會的網站就有這樣子的問題了所以是不是應該 院長您應該要請他們要改進但是也跟委員報告透過金管會跟財政部我們的公民銀行戶在零貴的服務方面對於打詐的這個功能是展現出來的"},{"start":1616.974,"end":1628.639,"text":"他們的服務已經超越了原來的工作上的職務所以金管會跟財政部跟公民銀行他們的宣導是多樣性的那這一點確實需要加強我們再請彭主委加強能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑更有直線式效應"},{"start":1636.903,"end":1637.163,"text":"我警官會特別注意"},{"start":1652.595,"end":1656.316,"text":"請問一下院長證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給我們的這些公司能夠任意的使用嗎"},{"start":1681.67,"end":1704.627,"text":"也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶說要委託書嗎我這邊就有一個實際的例子就是我的助理就接到這樣的電話就是他在那個這個星光金有這樣的一個股票然後營業員打給他要不要"},{"start":1705.327,"end":1724.143,"text":"可不可以把他的委託書給他我覺得這樣子的就像剛剛院長講的就是個資的問題可能就因為這樣的洩漏而且像這樣子的一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資來這個洩密出去那說實在我們現在打詐都不利了還只有這樣子的公司居然是做這樣的一個狀況那請問院長你覺得這個部分應該來怎麼處理"},{"start":1727.746,"end":1751.811,"text":"報告委員我想這個案子我私底下再跟委員請教一下我們會來請同仁去了解一下我覺得這樣子其實會讓我們一般的老百姓都會覺得心生恐懼我是一個正常的管道去投資但是在這個公司開戶之後居然我的個資是可以用這樣的一個方式洩露出去那萬一洩露到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦"},{"start":1752.751,"end":1774.824,"text":"所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下可能我們現在就像剛剛院長講的我們通過這個詐騙犯罪妨礙委之條例之後打詐司法之後我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低但是呢現在的狀況目前看起來不是這樣目前看到這個件數越來越多那也希望這個部分院長一定要讓我們的這些相關的部會能夠針對這個打詐的這個部分能夠多多的宣傳"},{"start":1778.826,"end":1779.826,"text":"我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多的支持"},{"start":1808.797,"end":1831.318,"text":"那其實呢﹖您知道嗎﹖今年就有部會是買這個日本的葡萄﹖去送給這個﹖這個必須請部會要檢討﹖其實這是國安局今年買的﹖就是送禮用的﹖是國安局﹖那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果呢﹖我們都在推廣這個農民的這個權益﹖"},{"start":1842.725,"end":1843.047,"text":"主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-2","title":"第11屆第2會期第2次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-01T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"16:30:14 - 17:01:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第2次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","id":155049,"gazette":{"lineno":1617,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（16時30分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：請院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：院長好，辛苦了。今天我想要請教卓院長的大概都是最近大家都很關心的一些議題，其中第一項就是有關國土計畫法，記得您第一次到立法院來備詢的時候，我有請教過您相關的問題。我們可以看一下現在的國土計畫法，我們都可以知道，為了國家的糧食安全，所以我們現在有劃定了74萬到81萬公頃的土地必須要作為農地，以供應國家的糧食安全。我想請教一下院長，您可以看一下螢幕上的有關國土計畫法目前的繳交狀況，我們可以看到雲林縣目前劃定的農一是6萬公頃，然後農二是二萬六千多百公頃；屏東縣雖然農地面積比較大，但是它的農一目前只劃了5,776公頃。我想請教一下院長，如果屏東可以這樣做，其他縣市是不是也能夠比照屏東的方式來劃設，把國有地劃設為農一、私有地劃設為農二？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是地方政府跟我們的相關單位要去做一個協商跟配合，總歸的是，全國的土地要在能夠掌握有效資源的利用之下，我們才能做這樣國土規劃的推動。"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長的意思也是同意全國的標準應該要一致嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，各縣市政府在劃農業發展區的時候，除了照相關的一些劃設原則以外，還會參考縣市的發展情況去處理。第二個部分就是說，屏東縣劃起來看起來比較低，是因為目前一般劃農一、農二都是用特農跟一般農為基底去轉……"],["許委員宇甄：部長，這不是看起來比較低，而是低很多，我現在要請教的是說，記得那時候的縣長是潘孟安縣長，他在劃設這個部分的時候，內政部跟農業部好像針對這個部分也都覺得這樣的作法有別於其他縣市的劃設其實是不對的，也有提出了道德勸說，但是到最後，畢竟這個劃設分區圖是縣市來提報的，所以最後還是尊重他，先通過他的草案，請問是這樣嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：應該不是這樣子，我跟委員說明，縣市政府公展以後、審議完了以後會送到內政部來，然後內政部會用合議的方式去處理，這段時間還在溝通……"],["許委員宇甄：所以目前看到的這個資料……"],["陳部長駿季：會再去溝通，現在是縣市政府……"],["許委員宇甄：現在是這個階段嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：縣市政府的資料，對。"],["許委員宇甄：暫時是這樣的資料，那請問一下，為什麼當時雲林縣在提報的時候就被退回，然後要求重劃？"],["陳部長駿季：這個我要澄清，現階段國土相關的這些功能分區圖都是在縣市政府的階段，都沒有送到所謂中央部會內政部這邊來審議，所以也沒有所謂農業部退回去，並沒有退回去這件事。"],["許委員宇甄：雲林縣政府在111年1月4日第21次的研商會議當中，其中1,540公頃他們本來是劃設為農二，要求他們恢復成農一喔，這是在111年1月4號第21次的研商會議……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明……"],["許委員宇甄：所以這個部分的資料都是明確的……"],["陳部長駿季：我知道……"],["許委員宇甄：對於這個部分，我只想請教院長，針對國土計畫的區分是不是可以讓各縣市都有統一的一個標準？院長，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個剛剛部長已經解釋過了啊。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我想請教院長，是不是可以這樣？就是有一個統一的標準讓大家可以遵循。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，農業部有它的職權，部長剛剛解釋過了是全國一致的標準，如果有……"],["許委員宇甄：是全國一致的標準嘛，好。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果有違反一致的標準，當然可以拿出來討論，剛剛部長解釋是在全國一致的標準。"],["許委員宇甄：現在為什麼很多的農民、很多農業縣的縣市政府對這個部分其實都非常的憂慮，主要就是因為農一跟農二到底有什麼差別？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我直接的說，因為在溝通的過程當中，我們希望用土地、專業、理性去溝通，但是如果有人一直在跟農民講說，一旦實施了，農民就永世不得翻身，這種政治性的操作，我覺得應該要停下來。"],["許委員宇甄：那請教院長，農一跟農二有什麼差別？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是一個是優良，一個是良好。"],["陳部長駿季：以從事農業來講是完全沒有差的。"],["許委員宇甄：好，對農業來講是完全沒有差的，既然這樣的話，為什麼不就乾脆劃在一起，就不要分農一、農二呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想農一、農二在劃設的時候，在農一的部分是已經有比較多的基礎設施在那邊，所以未來在後面這些基礎設施的興建上面會有一些區別，但是對農民來講是沒有差的。"],["許委員宇甄：我們現在一直說不清楚農一、農二，其實並不像院長剛剛講的那樣，就說大家在恐嚇農民，不是，而是因為現在不管是對農民的補貼，或者是說我們現在農一、農二的差異在哪裡其實都沒有搞清楚，農民都不清楚，所以才會有這樣的一個憂慮。而且不是只有農業縣市，甚至包括朝野的立委也都對這部分有提出質疑，我們也可以看到99%的農會也都反對這個國土計畫法，為什麼？因為就是不夠了解，而且補貼、相關的配套措施或是相關的法令其實都一直不清楚嘛，尤其是我們的國土計畫法總共會有23項子法，目前已經完成14項，還有9項還未完成，是這樣嗎？請教一下部長。"],["劉部長世芳：我可不可以回答一下？"],["許委員宇甄：對，請劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：我跟委員報告一下，其實國土計畫有分為二級審議，一級審議在縣市地方政府，二級審議才到中央來。你剛剛有提到說在研商計畫當中被退回，就我們內政部所主管的國土計畫，唯一有一次被撤回的部分是桃園市，因為它的名詞或用詞不當，所以其實並沒有像你所想像的……"],["許委員宇甄：這個請部長可能回去查一下，我把時間還有包括哪一次都已經明確的告訴部長……"],["劉部長世芳：我知道，但是有些研商會議並不代表官方的審議會議，我要跟您報告一下。再來……"],["許委員宇甄：那這一部分是不是請部長能夠回去查清楚，那就可以讓雲林縣了解清楚整個的風貌，如果可以的話，他們就再送嘛，可以再把這1,530公頃歸回去，可以這樣嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：對，沒有問題，院長也再三指示說一定要好好的溝通。那我剛剛跟您報告的部分就是說，就我所了解的部分，雲林現在也提出相當多的國土變更的需求，而且變更範圍的土地面積非常的大，已經達到有一萬多公頃。事實上如果國土計畫沒有把功能分區圖好好地劃分的話，未來其實要能夠通過的可能性，跟經濟部或者是教育部在合議的時候其實不太能夠成功。"],["許委員宇甄：其實我想對於農業縣的縣市長來說，他們希望能夠保障農民的權益絕對是高過我們任何一個人，所以當時潘孟安縣長為什麼會把私有地都劃成為農二，他就是認為這樣會影響農民的權益，所以說雲林縣……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，農會、農民跟農地的權益，從來沒有被不保障過，可能很多人是誤解了。"],["許委員宇甄：好，那如果這樣子的話非常好，我想今天不管是部長跟院長其實都很同意，就是我們要保障農民的權益，這點是有共識的嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["許委員宇甄：對。所以這個部分既然這樣子的話，是不是我們雲林縣也比照屏東縣的劃設標準去做，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想跟委員……"],["許委員宇甄：我知道您剛剛有提到，您剛剛有提到有各種不同的標準。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我跟委員說，他們劃完以後，我們農業部一定會跟他們溝通跟討論，像上次雲林縣政府講的，原來農一裡面有部分的地層下陷區，那我們覺得說地層下陷區放在農一也不合理，那一旦他們提出來以後，我們就會進入實質的討論去做一個調整。"],["許委員宇甄：原則上我們就是希望雲林縣也可以比照屏東縣的劃設標準去把農一、農二釐清，那在這個部分我覺得我們應該要先公布完整的配套措施還有補償措施，甚至法令的完成。你看全部23項的子法經過9年了都還有9項到現在還沒完成，那怎麼能夠期待我們其他的……"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，報告委員，我們國土計畫法裡面的23項子法現在有9項是在預告，還有1項要討論而已，所以到明年的4月30日之前，所謂的23項……"],["許委員宇甄：經過了9年，那我們怎麼能夠期望說我們在這短短的時間內能夠去跟農民講清楚，所以這個部分可能請院長要特別……"],["劉部長世芳：我們也希望縣市政府都可以跟農民講清楚。"],["許委員宇甄：對，剛剛說農一跟農二其實沒有太大的差別，可是我們可以看到現在這張圖，我們依據國土署送審的資料可以看到其實差別是很大的，所以說為什麼會這樣子呢？它也導致農地的價格會降低，而且對農民來說是財產權的一個受損。各位可以看一下，根據憲法要保障人民的財產權，根據釋字第440號，如果國家依法行使公權力致人民的財產遭受損失，若形成個人之特別犧牲者，也應該要給予合理的補償。所以，院長，您有沒有認為應該要給予我們農民多少的、怎麼樣的補償才算是合理，您心目中有沒有一個具體的數字？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得應該要跟農民朋友說明清楚國土計畫法裡面真正的用意，還有如何來使用它的管制的規定。那您剛剛提到農一、農二為什麼要把它分開、為什麼不混為一起？當初在2016年5月立這個法的時候就是這樣設定的，除非現在我們重新再來，那經過了這麼多年，不只是子法沒有動，連母法也沒有動啊！"],["許委員宇甄：關於這個部分，不管是中央來的部會首長是誰，每次我們在地方上只要問到農一跟農二有什麼差別，大家的回答就是沒什麼差別，既然沒什麼差別，那為什麼還要分？我想這個也是我們必須要跟農民說清楚的，就是差別在哪裡、會有什麼樣的不同、針對農一有什麼樣的補貼、針對農二有什麼樣的補貼，我記得陳部長之前有講過，就是會有堆疊式的補貼。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，我們農業部對於農民或農產業進行資源投入來協助農民的政策不會因為國土計畫而改變，換句話說，並不是說國土計畫要通過了才會有補貼，沒通過就沒補貼，我們會持續的去協助，而且這個是配合我們的國家希望工程。"],["許委員宇甄：好，針對這個部分，院長看到他們這樣子的補貼，說實在的，農業部還沒有辦法編列一個完整、堆疊式的補貼來做為配套，我想其實主要原因就是預算嘛！院長，您願不願意給農業部預算讓他們來照顧農民呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：根據我們的統計，農業部在最近幾年下來對於農民的各項補貼政策所使用的經費、預算都相當的足夠，我記得在2023年這一年已經超過兩百多億……"],["許委員宇甄：我是指這個堆疊式的補貼。"],["卓院長榮泰：一年已經超過兩百多億，這是直接的補貼。"],["許委員宇甄：我知道，我指得是堆疊式的補貼，院長，這部分是不是可以？"],["陳部長駿季：關於堆疊式的補貼，到目前為止，我們在沒有新增加的情況之下，大概有差不多100億左右是在進行我們農業本身土地資源的……"],["許委員宇甄：我給院長跟部長看一個數字，就是民進黨政府大量的推動綠能，所以我們可以看到，在明年114年度的預算裡面，台電也編列了824億要購買太陽能的電力，請問院長，你知道農地如果租給太陽能業者的話，一年可以收多少的租金？是40萬的租金，也就是說，什麼都不用做，就可以收40萬的租金。針對這個部分，我們可以看一下農民他們一年的收益是多少？我們來看下一張，這個是根據農糧署所給的資料，這是農民的生產費用、工資、利潤，一年下來的收入加起來才十二萬多，也就是說，如果什麼都不用做，只要租給光電業者就是40萬；那農民自己耕作，除了要巡田水，而且像現在剛好颱風要來，也有可能會血本無歸，最多也只有十二萬多的收入。針對這個部分，請問院長，我們在給農民補貼或者是做照顧農民的相關措施時，是不是可以依照我們對光電業者的租金補貼去設算那個數字呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員講到光電的補貼，我們還是希望農漁民從事生產，這個才是對農民最好的照顧啊！"],["許委員宇甄：對，但是問題是不利耕作的農地只要租給光電業者，一年就有40萬的收益。"],["卓院長榮泰：那是不利耕作的部分。"],["許委員宇甄：那我們這些優良農地的農民需要很努力、很用心，而且一整年辛苦下來搞不好還血本無歸，最多也就十二萬多，這個實在是對我們弱勢的農民非常不公平。所以本席在這邊有三個具體的主張，請院長聽看看，第一個就是希望院長能夠召集跨部會的會議，因為現在就有農業部、內政部，甚至可能還有其他部會，那我們希望能夠儘速的制定國土計畫法施行後的完整配套，以減少農業縣市跟農民的損失；第二個是希望農業部應該針對有受限制且有實質耕作的農地給予對地補貼，也希望行政院能夠參考太陽能光電每公頃的租金收益，支持農業部所需的預算；第三個也是因應大家現在共同提出的，不管朝野立委都提出的，就是支持國土計畫法的修正草案，將施行日期展延二年，讓農業縣市有更長的時間可以準備，並有充足的時間跟農民溝通，我在這邊代表廣大的弱勢農民來請求院長，您同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我回答委員，第一點，我們現在已經有劉鏡清政委跟陳金德政委，再加上內政部跟農業部對國土計畫法如何推動、如何跟農民做溝通說明，持續的在進行相關會議當中。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：第二點，農業部對於農民的一些預算上面的補助跟支持，長年以來都實質在增加，我剛剛說過在去年達到兩百多億……"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長會繼續支持就對了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會從這個制度面再去做更多的設想……"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛我給你們一個標準，希望能夠比照……"],["卓院長榮泰：第三個部分，我覺得這個是需要朝野有共識，第三個部分必須大家有共識，我們才能知道到底現在我們是如何？還要繼續推？到明年4月30號這個期限如何再進行公告？"],["許委員宇甄：請院長針對這個部分，我想我們都是關心農民，而且是愛護農民的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["許委員宇甄：我們希望能夠為農民好。接下來也要請教部長的是社會住宅的部分，關於社會住宅的部分，您可以看一下我們現在社會住宅興建的進度，我們可以看到既有加新完工大概是3萬1,434戶，興建中大概是4萬2,956戶，已決標待開工的大概是3萬1,992戶，規劃中的是1萬5,556戶。所以根據院長您的施政報告第6頁，這裡面有提到今年底將達成12萬戶的目標，可是就我們一般人看起來或者是我們一般的認知，已經完工的才算是已經完成的社會住宅，所以算起來應該是三萬多戶吧！好吧，那我們寬鬆一點，加入興建中的也頂多就是七萬多戶，已決標待開工跟規劃中的這些將近五萬戶怎麼可以算是在年底前就能夠完成呢？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我想委員您講得非常的正確，就是說如果我們把已決標待開工的還有興建當中的去掉的話，確實在第一階段、109年底的時候，我們達標的是4萬戶而已。"],["許委員宇甄：所以你說在……"],["劉部長世芳：但是如果你把已經決標、新完工還有既有的加在一起的話，到113年8月底，一共是10萬6,382戶。"],["許委員宇甄：對，那個是已決標待開工，也就是還沒開工。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["許委員宇甄：請問還沒開工可以住嗎？根本不可能住啊！"],["劉部長世芳：當然。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我的意思就是說，你不能把已決標待開工跟規劃中都當作你們已經完成的目標。"],["劉部長世芳：是，所以計算標準不一樣。"],["許委員宇甄：所以包括您剛剛也特別提到，剛剛我們廖偉翔委員在提到的時候，您剛剛也回答說，也是這個報告的第7頁有提到的，「百萬租屋家庭支持計畫」大概在2032年會達到25萬戶社會住宅。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛廖委員希望你們簽一個承諾書，院長沒有簽嘛，我知道院長為什麼沒有簽，您知道嗎？因為審計部其實已經打臉了，審計部這邊的報告特別提到，在120年底，蔡英文總統的12萬戶社會住宅只能蓋好9萬8,699戶，也就是說，在120年底，也就是2031年只能夠達到9萬8,699戶，跟你們所提到的25萬戶社會住宅有很大的落差，這不是我說的，這是審計部的決算報告裡面所提到的，所以針對這個部分的話，顯然就是大跳票，而且也是在美化數字。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我可不可以補充說明一下？您現在所說的審計部的報告是112年，針對過去蔡英文總統開始要蓋社會住宅跟包租代管的戶數……"],["許委員宇甄：他是依照剛剛那個數字……"],["劉部長世芳：我知道，但是……"],["許委員宇甄：他是依照剛剛那個數字去推算的，包括到113年8月底，大概可以有3萬7,017……"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們也看到了審計部的報告，所以我們現在重新再規劃的部分，包括要怎麼樣多元取得土地……"],["許委員宇甄：所以跟您剛剛提到的，包括跟這個報告有著非常大的落差，我覺得這個部分其實我們應該要對國人說清楚講明白，而不是用這樣子的一個數字去美化，然後讓大家以為我們社會住宅的成績很好，我們應該務實地去面對這樣子的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，不是美化，部長最後一句話你應該讓他說完，審計部的報告也許是用過去我們在興建的各種方式來做一個計算跟推演，現在我們也看到目前在執行上遇到的，包括這些比較慢的速度，所以它用多元的方式再取得土地，甚至我們希望跟民間能夠做更充分的合作、更快速地取得土地，進而興建社宅。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，我這邊提出來就是要讓我們院長或部長了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：都有在討論。"],["許委員宇甄：針對這個部分，其實數字就是會說話……"],["劉部長世芳：我們沒有美化，您所引用的數目字也都是官方的文字。"],["許委員宇甄：而且目前的狀況也是這樣，所以我們應該要怎麼樣去凸顯這樣的問題，進而加速社會住宅能夠達到目標才是重點。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的鼓勵，我們會加速取得土地。"],["許委員宇甄：當然在這個部分，尤其是社會住宅，基本上是住都中心這邊在執行的。"],["劉部長世芳：對，興建。"],["許委員宇甄：其實在520之後，內政部很多人都希望能夠調到住都中心去，您知道為什麼嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：住都中心現在是一個民間的基金會，它比較不受公務員的影響，但問題是住都中心的工作量非常的大。"],["許委員宇甄：我告訴你為什麼，我不曉得有沒有這個原因，但是我知道的狀況是，院長，您的薪資我們可以看到，大概一個月是34萬6,960元，這是院長的薪資；我們可以看到住都中心的執行長一個月就有30萬2,848元，這還不包含主管加給。所以你就知道為什麼住都中心在114年度的用人費用高達5.44億元，職員有460人，比原民會、客委會、公共工程委員會的人事費用都還高很多，就是因為他們都坐領高薪，坐領高薪如果可以把事情做好，其實我們也都認同，但是目前我們可以看到社會住宅嚴重的落後。所以是不是可以請部長能夠把這個部分了解清楚，為什麼我們的住都中心坐領這麼高的薪水，可是卻沒有辦法達到這樣的效果？"],["劉部長世芳：住都中心的薪水本來在我們通過住都中心這樣子的基金會的時候就已經把薪資表按照這樣羅列出來，所以其實我並沒有做更動；第二個，住都中心在賴總統上任之後，其實加速在全臺灣各地包括在金門、馬祖離島等地方都有住都中心要蓋的社會住宅，所以其實他們是非常忙碌的！"],["許委員宇甄：部長，其實在112年的審計部決算報告也提出很多住都中心的問題。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["許委員宇甄：包括……"],["劉部長世芳：我們都把它列入要檢討改進的。"],["許委員宇甄：林口世大運的租金收入未達興辦事業計畫的預期，還有出租人或業者溢領補助費用等等相關的問題很多。"],["劉部長世芳：這個我們有改善。"],["許委員宇甄：他們坐領高薪，而且有很大的問題，難道不需要檢討嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告，如果您提到林口社宅的部分，其中有一部分作為青創基地，在林口社宅完全交接之前已經確定是在……而且裡面有一些……"],["許委員宇甄：部長，我甚至還聽到很多說到，要去住都中心，如果後臺不夠硬還進不去，就已經有人跟我講，有一位民進黨選過議員落選的人現在在住都中心占缺，但是是在部會任職，所以住都中心現在是不是已經變成民進黨的退輔會還是肥貓養成中心？"],["劉部長世芳：我不清楚，歡迎您來檢舉。"],["許委員宇甄：是不是只能夠請部長了解清楚之後，在一個月之內給我報告？"],["劉部長世芳：好。"],["許委員宇甄：另外我想再請教院長的就是，詐騙的問題也是大家非常關心的，目前不管是行動電話的使用率，或者是網路的使用率都非常的高，有超過六成的民眾曾經接到過電話或網路詐騙的相關電話，我想請教院長、部長跟在座的官員，請問你或是你的家人，有沒有人收過詐騙集團的電話？都沒有嗎？有的話請舉手！"],["卓院長榮泰：都會有一些親朋好友會給我們這樣的訊息，就是接受過詐騙集團的電話。"],["許委員宇甄：對。所以說應該在座……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是經過我們最近這幾年下來，我們對於識詐（就是認識詐騙）的各種宣導還是有一些成效。"],["許委員宇甄：所以剛剛院長講，就是我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我還是承認，詐騙的案件在社會上大家還是非常的痛惡。"],["許委員宇甄：非常的多。我想這個部分我們可以先看一下，刑事警察局在這七年來有一個詐騙案件跟金額的統計，你可以看到，到去年底詐騙件數來到37,984件，詐騙金額也達到88.7億元。請問卓院長，針對打詐中心說他們現在的打詐成績其實越來越好，請問院長，您對這個成績滿意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：成績不能說越來越好，只是我一直認為，我們不是越打越多，而是不打它會更多，確實是有一些成效出來，但是……"],["許委員宇甄：我們看下一張……"],["卓院長榮泰：詐騙集團也是日新月異在翻新很多詐騙的手法，而且有很多科技的詐騙，我們都必須往下做。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，您看一下，我們現在有一個打詐儀錶板，就是警政署的打詐儀錶板。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["許委員宇甄：我現在只有列出7月和8月的受理案件數以及財損金額，光7月就有111億，光8月就有137億，光這兩個月就有這麼高的財損金額。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我可不可以補充？"],["許委員宇甄：沒關係，我先問完，為什麼會有這麼高的金額？我們可以看到詐騙的手法有很多種，我們可以看到第一點跟第四點其實差不多，就都是投資詐騙！既然投資詐騙非常的多，是不是這方面的宣導應該也要更多？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["許委員宇甄：是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會持續加強。"],["許委員宇甄：可是我們可以看到……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，就是因為我們長官要求說我們不可以有黑數，所以我們每一天都會公布打詐儀錶板。"],["許委員宇甄：所以表示現在這個是沒有黑數的？"],["劉部長世芳：然後裡面的案件數其實我們已經把它更動，也就是說一人一案，而不是像以前很多人一案，那還有詐騙金額的部分是他們主觀認定，跟確定有多少詐騙金額是不一樣的。"],["許委員宇甄：我想請教一下院長，您知不知道我們打詐成效不彰的原因有哪些？"],["劉部長世芳：第一個，我想……"],["許委員宇甄：我想請教院長，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：打詐的成效不彰，過去我們是苦於手中沒有強而有力的法律依據，現在我們已經經過大院審定了打詐新法，這個理由絕對不存在，我們希望能夠補充充足的人力、有法律的依據，甚至我們有先進的科技設備。"],["許委員宇甄：之前可能就是因為破獲率低、刑期太短，還有可能就是我們的宣傳不夠，所以就是說……"],["卓院長榮泰：第四個就是要加強它的刑度。"],["許委員宇甄：所以說其實打詐這部分，我想一般人普遍的認知都是覺得詐騙的問題越來越猖狂、越來越嚴重，當然我們也希望我們的宣導要用在對的地方、用在對的人，而年輕人被詐騙的居多，他們都習慣用網路，我們看到金管會有一個防詐專區，您可以看一下，裡面有很多金融防詐的資訊，點進去看，您可以看一下，瀏覽的人次大概從2,489到5,809不等啦，瀏覽人次大概是這樣，你不要以為一天的瀏覽人次有這麼多喔，其實這個瀏覽人次是兩年，從2022年9月到現在都沒有更新了，兩年的時間有兩千多人瀏覽，就代表說一天可能三個人，所以這樣的打詐成效怎麼會好呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：這要持續的加強。"],["許委員宇甄：所以說金管會在這方面，因為很多人比如他遇到投資詐騙的問題，可能第一時間就會想到這是金管會，他想要去多瞭解，結果居然是這樣一個網站，你說用宣傳的方式，結果光金管會的網站就有這樣的問題了，所以院長是不是應該再請他們改進？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，這個必須要加強，但是也跟委員報告，透過金管會跟財政部，我們的公民營行庫在臨櫃的服務方面，打詐的功能已展現出來了，他們的服務已經超越了原來工作上的服務。"],["許委員宇甄：這個我不否認，我覺得在銀行的部分……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以金管會、財政部跟公民營行庫的宣導是多樣性的。"],["許委員宇甄：但是剛剛我們在講宣導嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：這一點確實需要加強。"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分可能請……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再請彭主委加強，能夠把網頁做得更生動活潑、更有直接的效益。"],["許委員宇甄：還有就是不要兩年都沒更新，打詐的部分就像剛剛院長講的日新月異、技倆層出不窮，如果我們兩年都沒有更新，說實在的做這個網頁形同虛設。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請金管會特別注意。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員的指正，這我們會馬上來處理。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，最近還有一個議題要請教一下院長，就是最近「新新併」台新金跟新光金合併的議題受到全國矚目，新光金大概10月11號也要召開臨時的股東會，請問一下院長，證券公司可以把客戶持股的資料給公司任意的使用嗎？也就是說營業員可以打電話給客戶要委託書嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得個資如果這樣使用的話，應該是不應該有的行為。"],["許委員宇甄：應該是不對的嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["許委員宇甄：我這邊就有一個實際的例子，我的助理就接到這樣的電話，因為他有新光金的股票，所以營業員打給他，問他可不可以把他的委託書給他。我覺得就像剛剛院長講的，個資可能就因為這樣洩漏出去，而且像這樣一個大型金控公司如果都自行利用證券公司的個資，那說實在的，我們現在打詐都不力了，如果公司居然還這樣做，請問院長，你覺得這個部分應該怎麼處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，這個案子我私底下再跟委員請教一下，我會請同仁去瞭解一下。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得這樣會讓我們一般的老百姓心生恐懼，我是透過一個正常的管道去投資，但是在證券公司開戶之後，居然我的個資可以用這樣的方式洩漏出去，那萬一洩漏到詐騙集團手上要怎麼辦？所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下。現在就像剛剛院長講的，我們通過詐欺犯罪危害防制條例等打詐四法之後，我們都希望能夠把詐騙能夠降到最低，但是現在的狀況看起來不是這樣，目前看到件數越來越多，也希望院長一定要請相關部會針對打詐的部分多多的宣傳。最後還要請教院長一個問題，就是我們在中秋的時候有收到各部會的一些禮品，有些部會是向弱勢團體採購，有些是會送臺灣的農產品。請問一下，左邊這個是日本進口的麝香葡萄，那您覺得我們應該是要買我們的農特產品，還是買日本的麝香葡萄？"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然鼓勵大家對我們的農民多多支持。"],["許委員宇甄：對。其實您知道嗎？今年就有部會是買日本的葡萄去送給……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個必須請部會要檢討，對農民的支持還是應該就是……"],["許委員宇甄：國安局今年買的，就是送禮用的，是國安局。那為什麼國安局不買臺灣的水果？我們都在推廣農民的權益或是為農民發聲，希望這個部分，是不是請院長……"],["陳部長駿季：我想以後我們加強宣導。"],["卓院長榮泰：了解、了解。"],["許委員宇甄：這跟農業部無關，這是國安局的。謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許委員。","下一位我們請張宏陸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":204,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-2","speakers":["江啟臣","楊瓊瓔","吳秉叡","陳玉珍","王定宇","邱鎮軍","蘇巧慧","吳宗憲","楊曜","游顥","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","許宇甄","張宏陸"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2024-10-01"],"gazette_id":"1137601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第2次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137601_00004"}}}