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\"這10年電力規劃情形不看不知道一看真的是要嚇一跳我們來看一下這個電力規劃情形從112年民進黨政府決定這個核能核二除役然後把一些這個燃煤也除以後結果他未來做的是什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 783.13, \"end\": 783.63, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 783.63, \"end\": 784.09, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 784.09, \"end\": 784.27, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 784.27, \"end\": 784.51, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 784.51, \"end\": 784.61, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 784.61, \"end\": 785.191, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 785.191, \"end\": 785.291, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 785.291, \"end\": 785.431, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 785.431, \"end\": 785.871, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 785.871, \"end\": 786.011, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 786.011, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 796.773, \"end\": 797.013, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"役\", \"start\": 797.013, \"end\": 798.133, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 798.133, \"end\": 798.314, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 798.314, \"end\": 798.914, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 798.914, \"end\": 799.094, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 799.094, \"end\": 799.194, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 799.194, \"end\": 800.394, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"燃\", \"start\": 800.394, \"end\": 800.614, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"煤\", \"start\": 800.614, \"end\": 800.814, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 800.814, \"end\": 801.034, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 801.034, \"end\": 801.274, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 801.274, \"end\": 801.474, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 801.474, \"end\": 802.354, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 802.354, \"end\": 802.695, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 802.695, \"end\": 803.415, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 803.415, \"end\": 803.755, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 803.755, \"end\": 803.895, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 803.895, \"end\": 803.975, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 803.975, \"end\": 804.135, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 804.135, \"end\": 804.155, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 806.159, \"end\": 831.626, \"text\": \"我們來看一下先從這個表圖的上面來看2023年2024年2025年民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能給除役然後把一些燃煤燃煤跟燃氣的把它救市的把它除役可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是在100在112年的時候2023年的時候因為當時政府就只發揮只做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 806.159, \"end\": 806.459, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 806.459, \"end\": 806.579, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 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825.004, \"end\": 825.264, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 825.264, \"end\": 825.864, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 825.864, \"end\": 826.004, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 826.004, \"end\": 826.304, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 826.304, \"end\": 827.425, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 827.425, \"end\": 828.785, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 828.785, \"end\": 829.065, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 829.065, \"end\": 829.305, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 829.305, \"end\": 829.525, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 829.525, \"end\": 831.426, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"揮\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 831.426, \"end\": 831.606, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 831.606, \"end\": 831.626, \"score\": 0.033}]}, {\"start\": 832.945, \"end\": 860.052, \"text\": \"綠電所以當時在113年的時候全臺灣可以看到這個最下面這個夜間的尖峰的這個被轉容量只到8.1所以要跟院長跟部長講的是你沒有跟人民講的是在民進黨的能源政策底下出入的能源政策底下未來臺灣就是第一個用的是新建的燃氣白天\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 832.945, \"end\": 833.725, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 833.725, \"end\": 834.685, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 834.685, \"end\": 835.686, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 835.686, \"end\": 835.826, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 835.826, \"end\": 836.066, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 836.066, \"end\": 836.286, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 836.286, \"end\": 837.286, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 842.347, \"end\": 842.668, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 842.668, \"end\": 842.848, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 842.848, \"end\": 843.268, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 843.268, \"end\": 843.408, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 843.408, \"end\": 843.868, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 843.868, \"end\": 844.108, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 844.108, \"end\": 845.148, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 845.148, \"end\": 845.308, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 845.308, \"end\": 845.528, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 845.528, \"end\": 845.828, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 845.828, \"end\": 845.988, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 845.988, \"end\": 846.448, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 846.448, \"end\": 846.568, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 846.568, \"end\": 847.829, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 847.829, \"end\": 847.989, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 847.989, \"end\": 848.129, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 848.129, \"end\": 848.229, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 848.229, \"end\": 848.529, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 848.529, \"end\": 848.629, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 848.629, \"end\": 848.969, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 848.969, \"end\": 849.089, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 849.089, \"end\": 850.049, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 850.049, \"end\": 850.309, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 850.309, \"end\": 850.71, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 853.11, \"end\": 853.25, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 853.25, \"end\": 853.85, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 853.85, \"end\": 855.331, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 855.331, \"end\": 855.511, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 855.511, \"end\": 856.071, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 856.071, \"end\": 856.211, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 856.211, \"end\": 857.111, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 857.111, \"end\": 857.291, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 857.291, \"end\": 857.411, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 857.411, \"end\": 857.931, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 857.931, \"end\": 858.211, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 858.211, \"end\": 858.411, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 858.411, \"end\": 858.552, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"燃\", \"start\": 858.552, \"end\": 859.852, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 859.852, \"end\": 860.032, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 860.032, \"end\": 860.052, \"score\": 0.019}]}, {\"start\": 861.172, \"end\": 876.567, \"text\": \"的時侯是要用綠能用高額的電費來支付電費所以這邊要先請教部長的部分還有院長的部分你們可以看到112年的時候以這個圖表來看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 861.172, \"end\": 861.312, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"侯\", \"start\": 861.312, \"end\": 862.193, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 862.193, \"end\": 862.293, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 862.293, \"end\": 862.413, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 862.413, \"end\": 863.314, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 863.314, \"end\": 863.654, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 863.654, \"end\": 863.875, \"score\": 0.991}, 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\"請教院長跟部長這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎報告委員我想這個用燃氣來取代燃煤這是一個世界的方向那麼在這個還沒有說這個2050年要進行減碳的時候那麼是在發電的成本來看那麼燃煤跟燃氣是比較低的但是因為有了2050年要減碳的這個目標\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 938.654, \"end\": 939.115, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 939.115, \"end\": 939.375, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 939.375, \"end\": 939.515, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 939.515, \"end\": 939.815, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 939.815, \"end\": 939.955, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 939.955, \"end\": 940.376, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 940.376, \"end\": 940.736, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 940.736, \"end\": 940.996, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 940.996, \"end\": 941.116, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 941.116, \"end\": 941.216, 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946.741, \"end\": 947.061, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"煤\", \"start\": 947.061, \"end\": 948.062, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 948.062, \"end\": 948.182, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 948.182, \"end\": 948.602, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 948.602, \"end\": 948.823, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 948.823, \"end\": 948.983, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 948.983, \"end\": 949.143, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 949.143, \"end\": 949.403, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 949.403, \"end\": 950.384, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 950.384, \"end\": 950.924, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 950.924, \"end\": 953.166, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 953.166, \"end\": 953.346, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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\"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 963.514, \"end\": 963.775, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 963.775, \"end\": 964.475, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 964.475, \"end\": 964.735, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 964.735, \"end\": 964.855, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 964.855, \"end\": 965.536, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 965.536, \"end\": 965.896, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 965.896, \"end\": 966.457, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 966.457, \"end\": 966.717, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 966.717, \"end\": 966.817, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 966.817, \"end\": 966.837, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"標\"}]}, {\"start\": 968.353, \"end\": 969.074, \"text\": \"部長我先請教一個問題我們看到下一頁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 968.353, \"end\": 968.373, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 968.373, \"end\": 968.493, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 968.493, \"end\": 968.693, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 968.693, \"end\": 968.814, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 968.814, \"end\": 968.854, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 968.854, \"end\": 968.874, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 968.874, \"end\": 969.014, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 969.014, \"end\": 969.034, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 969.034, \"end\": 969.054, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 969.054, \"end\": 969.074, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"頁\"}]}, {\"start\": 987.892, \"end\": 1016.948, \"text\": \"我要請先請教這個部長的問題就是我們可以看到這張太陽能光電的表從民工104年當時台電跟民營電廠其實當時的發電量是差不多的可是我們可以看到從110年111年不管是民營電廠的發電量大幅的上增而且我剛剛特別跟你報告通通都是民營電廠為什麼台電不自己做光電通通要把\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 987.892, \"end\": 987.972, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 987.972, \"end\": 988.272, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 988.272, \"end\": 988.552, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 988.552, \"end\": 989.133, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 989.133, \"end\": 989.433, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 989.433, \"end\": 990.954, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 990.954, \"end\": 991.134, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 991.134, \"end\": 991.534, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 991.534, \"end\": 991.754, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 991.754, \"end\": 991.834, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 991.834, \"end\": 991.894, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 991.894, \"end\": 992.014, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 992.014, \"end\": 992.595, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 992.595, \"end\": 992.715, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"陽\", \"start\": 992.715, \"end\": 992.875, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 992.875, \"end\": 993.075, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 993.075, \"end\": 993.415, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 993.415, \"end\": 993.615, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 993.615, \"end\": 994.476, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 994.476, \"end\": 994.836, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 994.836, \"end\": 995.376, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, 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\"end\": 1000.519, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1000.519, \"end\": 1000.879, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1000.879, \"end\": 1000.999, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1000.999, \"end\": 1001.139, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1001.139, \"end\": 1001.259, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1001.259, \"end\": 1001.359, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1001.359, \"end\": 1001.439, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1001.439, \"end\": 1001.619, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1001.619, \"end\": 1003.14, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1003.14, \"end\": 1004.081, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1004.081, \"end\": 1006.622, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1006.622, \"end\": 1006.742, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 1006.742, \"end\": 1006.922, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1006.922, \"end\": 1007.062, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1007.062, \"end\": 1007.903, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1007.903, \"end\": 1008.043, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 1008.043, \"end\": 1008.323, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1008.323, \"end\": 1008.583, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"幅\", \"start\": 1008.583, \"end\": 1008.743, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1008.743, \"end\": 1008.963, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1008.963, \"end\": 1009.263, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 1009.263, \"end\": 1009.864, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 1009.864, \"end\": 1009.964, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 1009.964, \"end\": 1010.224, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1010.224, \"end\": 1010.524, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 1010.524, \"end\": 1010.644, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 1010.644, \"end\": 1010.764, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1010.764, \"end\": 1010.864, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1010.864, \"end\": 1011.144, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1011.144, \"end\": 1011.305, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1011.305, \"end\": 1011.465, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1011.465, \"end\": 1011.645, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1011.645, \"end\": 1011.785, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1011.785, \"end\": 1011.925, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1011.925, \"end\": 1013.546, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 1013.546, \"end\": 1013.946, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1013.946, \"end\": 1014.366, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1014.366, \"end\": 1014.546, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 1014.546, \"end\": 1014.686, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 1014.686, \"end\": 1014.866, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1014.866, \"end\": 1015.447, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 1015.447, \"end\": 1016.127, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1016.127, \"end\": 1016.347, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1016.347, \"end\": 1016.607, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1016.607, \"end\": 1016.928, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 1016.928, \"end\": 1016.948, \"score\": 0.626}]}, {\"start\": 1019.909, \"end\": 1042.345, \"text\": \"這些光電把他交給民營電廠去做所以人民只有擔心的是是不是都交給這些綠油油的企業來做為什麼台電自己不做綠電交給民營電廠的話是希望能夠透過競爭民間的這個競爭讓我們的這個電的成本可以更低\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 1019.909, \"end\": 1020.089, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 1020.089, \"end\": 1021.149, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 1021.149, \"end\": 1021.27, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1021.27, \"end\": 1021.49, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 1021.49, \"end\": 1021.81, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1021.81, \"end\": 1022.43, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1022.43, \"end\": 1022.61, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1022.61, \"end\": 1022.991, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1022.991, \"end\": 1023.111, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1023.111, \"end\": 1023.171, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"人\", 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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"競\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1039.463, \"end\": 1040.023, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1040.023, \"end\": 1040.824, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1040.824, \"end\": 1040.964, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1040.964, \"end\": 1041.204, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 1041.204, \"end\": 1041.784, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1041.784, \"end\": 1041.905, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1041.905, \"end\": 1042.065, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 1042.065, \"end\": 1042.325, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 1042.325, \"end\": 1042.345, \"score\": 0.991}]}, {\"start\": 1043.688, \"end\": 1063.589, \"text\": \"這是交給民營電廠的成本會更低我們看到下一張表這邊這個是台電公佈的資料台電的自發電力的電費跟外購電力大家可以看到一個明顯不相當的金額如果我們是台電自發的電力風力發電是4.61\", \"words\": 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{\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1054.4, \"end\": 1055.921, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1055.921, \"end\": 1056.602, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1056.602, \"end\": 1056.822, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1056.822, \"end\": 1057.483, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1057.483, \"end\": 1057.663, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1057.663, \"end\": 1057.803, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 1057.803, \"end\": 1057.883, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1057.883, \"end\": 1057.943, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1057.943, \"end\": 1058.003, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1058.003, \"end\": 1058.164, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1058.164, \"end\": 1058.324, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1058.324, \"end\": 1058.524, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 1058.524, \"end\": 1059.205, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1059.205, \"end\": 1059.325, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 1059.325, \"end\": 1059.765, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1059.765, \"end\": 1059.925, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 1059.925, \"end\": 1061.107, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1061.107, \"end\": 1061.267, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1061.267, \"end\": 1061.547, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1061.547, \"end\": 1061.827, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1061.827, \"end\": 1062.008, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1062.008, \"end\": 1062.388, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 1062.388, \"end\": 1062.688, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1062.688, \"end\": 1062.829, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1062.829, \"end\": 1063.049, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1063.049, \"end\": 1063.569, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1063.569, \"end\": 1063.589, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}]}, {\"start\": 1067.045, \"end\": 1086.391, \"text\": \"外購電力就是民營電廠的購電力是6.59增加了40%意思就是人民會認為這個表這麼清楚的展現出來要給民營企業就是要給他40%的利潤太陽能發電自力發電3.75給外購電力要4.85漲幅30%那我們來看燃氣現在民間沒有什麼企業會做燃氣的為什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1067.045, \"end\": 1067.245, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1067.245, \"end\": 1067.585, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1067.585, \"end\": 1067.705, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1067.705, \"end\": 1067.925, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1067.925, \"end\": 1068.545, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1068.545, \"end\": 1068.986, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1068.986, \"end\": 1069.146, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1069.146, \"end\": 1070.906, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 1070.906, \"end\": 1071.106, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 1071.106, \"end\": 1071.246, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1071.246, \"end\": 1072.647, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1072.647, \"end\": 1072.807, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 1072.807, \"end\": 1072.927, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1072.927, \"end\": 1073.147, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"燃\", \"start\": 1083.83, \"end\": 1083.99, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1083.99, \"end\": 1084.19, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1084.19, \"end\": 1084.41, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1084.41, \"end\": 1085.371, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1085.371, \"end\": 1085.531, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 1085.531, \"end\": 1085.711, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 1085.711, \"end\": 1085.911, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1085.911, \"end\": 1086.031, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"燃\", \"start\": 1086.031, \"end\": 1086.151, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1086.151, \"end\": 1086.371, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 1086.371, \"end\": 1086.391, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 1096.414, \"end\": 1112.183, \"text\": \"因為外購電力3.62可是台電自發2.96漲幅只有22%我想請問院長跟部長的這樣子大家不會趨之若鶩認為政府就是要保護綠電給它固定的利潤而且要保證採購的量嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1096.414, \"end\": 1096.614, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1096.614, \"end\": 1097.214, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 1097.214, \"end\": 1098.775, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1098.775, \"end\": 1098.895, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1098.895, \"end\": 1099.056, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1099.056, \"end\": 1099.436, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 1099.436, \"end\": 1100.977, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"幅\", 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{\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 1105.86, \"end\": 1106.04, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1106.04, \"end\": 1106.46, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1106.46, \"end\": 1106.64, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 1106.64, \"end\": 1108.001, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"鶩\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 1108.001, \"end\": 1108.241, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 1108.241, \"end\": 1108.541, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1108.541, \"end\": 1108.781, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1108.781, \"end\": 1108.901, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1108.901, \"end\": 1109.121, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1109.121, \"end\": 1110.042, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 1110.042, \"end\": 1110.302, \"score\": 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\"律電的部分還是一樣因為我們要快速的讓這個市場上要得到這麼多的律電如果說光是台電自己下去做可能會速度很慢所以我們需要民間的這個所以部長你講的沒錯因為當時過去台灣就已經自己台電就有做律電那台電從現在我們剛剛看到最前面那張表\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 1115.18, \"end\": 1115.601, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1115.601, \"end\": 1115.741, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1115.741, \"end\": 1115.921, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1115.921, \"end\": 1116.261, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1116.261, \"end\": 1116.401, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1116.401, \"end\": 1116.661, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1116.661, \"end\": 1116.842, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1116.842, \"end\": 1117.062, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1117.062, \"end\": 1117.302, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 1117.302, \"end\": 1117.642, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": 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1134.095, \"end\": 1134.475, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1134.475, \"end\": 1134.616, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1134.616, \"end\": 1134.796, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1134.796, \"end\": 1134.956, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 1134.956, \"end\": 1135.817, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1135.817, \"end\": 1135.957, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1135.957, \"end\": 1136.817, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1136.817, \"end\": 1136.997, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1136.997, \"end\": 1137.278, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1137.278, \"end\": 1137.418, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1137.418, \"end\": 1137.578, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 1137.578, \"end\": 1137.758, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 1137.758, \"end\": 1137.878, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 1137.878, \"end\": 1138.018, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1138.018, \"end\": 1138.399, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 1138.399, \"end\": 1138.419, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 1139.448, \"end\": 1161.108, \"text\": \"在112年到112年間喔臺電經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電完全不做全部交給民營電廠而且民營電廠就是保證用高價收購保證收購的一個態度我私下還得知你們都請這個調度單位一定要請這個調度單位一定要用綠電這樣子去做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1139.448, \"end\": 1140.189, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1140.189, \"end\": 1140.389, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1140.389, \"end\": 1141.33, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1141.33, \"end\": 1141.71, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 1141.71, \"end\": 1143.792, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1143.792, \"end\": 1144.433, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1144.433, \"end\": 1144.613, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 1144.613, \"end\": 1144.873, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 1144.873, \"end\": 1145.193, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 1145.193, \"end\": 1145.794, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 1145.794, \"end\": 1145.974, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 1145.974, \"end\": 1146.534, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1146.534, \"end\": 1147.555, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 1147.555, \"end\": 1147.796, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 1147.796, \"end\": 1148.036, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1148.036, 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\"start\": 1158.525, \"end\": 1158.906, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1158.906, \"end\": 1159.046, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1159.046, \"end\": 1159.166, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1159.166, \"end\": 1159.386, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1159.386, \"end\": 1160.327, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 1160.327, \"end\": 1160.427, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1160.427, \"end\": 1161.087, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1161.087, \"end\": 1161.108, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1165.464, \"end\": 1180.462, \"text\": \"所以我常常才會跟部長跟院長講政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電用人民的血汗錢發電晚上用廢發電就是空污的問題無法解決我覺得部長院長你沒有好好解釋我沒有辦法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1165.464, \"end\": 1165.544, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1165.544, \"end\": 1165.624, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 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\"的\", \"start\": 1169.028, \"end\": 1169.148, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 1169.148, \"end\": 1169.309, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 1169.309, \"end\": 1169.469, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1169.469, \"end\": 1169.669, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1169.669, \"end\": 1170.25, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 1170.25, \"end\": 1170.53, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1170.53, \"end\": 1171.491, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1171.491, \"end\": 1172.332, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1172.332, \"end\": 1172.512, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1172.512, \"end\": 1172.632, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1172.632, \"end\": 1172.713, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1172.713, \"end\": 1172.833, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"血\", \"start\": 1172.833, \"end\": 1172.953, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"汗\", \"start\": 1172.953, \"end\": 1174.054, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"晚\", \"start\": 1174.054, \"end\": 1174.314, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1174.314, \"end\": 1174.535, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1174.535, \"end\": 1176.597, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1176.597, \"end\": 1176.697, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1176.697, \"end\": 1176.877, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 1176.877, \"end\": 1177.118, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"污\", \"start\": 1177.118, \"end\": 1177.218, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1177.218, \"end\": 1177.338, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 1177.338, \"end\": 1177.698, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1177.698, \"end\": 1177.899, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1177.899, \"end\": 1178.359, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1178.359, \"end\": 1178.459, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 1178.459, \"end\": 1178.679, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1178.679, \"end\": 1178.96, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1178.96, \"end\": 1179.18, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1179.18, \"end\": 1179.26, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1179.26, \"end\": 1179.36, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1179.36, \"end\": 1179.42, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1179.42, \"end\": 1179.54, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1179.54, \"end\": 1179.721, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1179.721, \"end\": 1180.121, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1180.121, \"end\": 1180.281, 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1317.222, \"text\": \"我們沒有錯我們同意您的說法除能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1314.721, \"end\": 1314.841, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1314.841, \"end\": 1314.961, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1314.961, \"end\": 1315.021, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1315.021, \"end\": 1315.161, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 1315.161, \"end\": 1315.381, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1315.381, \"end\": 1315.621, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1315.621, \"end\": 1315.721, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1315.721, \"end\": 1315.761, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1315.761, \"end\": 1316.001, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 1316.001, \"end\": 1316.181, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1316.181, \"end\": 1316.381, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 1316.381, \"end\": 1316.561, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1316.561, \"end\": 1316.661, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1316.661, \"end\": 1316.681, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1316.681, \"end\": 1316.701, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1316.701, \"end\": 1316.801, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1316.801, \"end\": 1316.902, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 1316.902, \"end\": 1317.002, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1317.002, \"end\": 1317.202, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 1317.202, \"end\": 1317.222, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1342.329, \"end\": 1357.9, \"text\": \"我請問一下部長那為什麼114年以後就不發展除能設備了政府就不發展除能設備就不建置除能設備除能設備你要有那個他有使用的地方不過我們認為是這樣子因為業者他到在市場評估的時候\", 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00:00:53,930\n張委員好卓院長好辛苦了這幾天今天的質詢一整天非常辛苦本席在這邊最近颱風所有我們第一線的警消還有所有救災的人員至上最深的敬意大家辛苦了院長辛苦了應該的\n\n3\n00:00:55,592 --> 00:01:23,581\n好那接下來要請教院長的部分就是我本身來自的選區是新北市中和也是我們韓院長的家鄉所以當我一開始上任以來我對很多的地方的大型的建設我非常的關心那也認為我們中和地方的大型建設它的時程都一般來講都拖得比較長所以我一直在關心希望很多的時程可以進速可以加速有一些不必要的這個\n\n4\n00:01:24,801 --> 00:01:25,502\n中和污水下水道接管\n\n5\n00:01:46,580 --> 00:02:11,151\n說明一下他是從民國9393年就已經開始做這個中和污水下水道的接管那現在已經這個將近30年了那中國還有大概10萬的人南四角的人沒有接管所以在這個111年3月的時候由國土府核定12.87億的中和污水下水道接管\n\n6\n00:02:12,892 --> 00:02:13,352\n所以這邊我跟這個院長要請託的就是說\n\n7\n00:02:38,210 --> 00:03:05,418\n現在總共的總經費大概是12.87億那第一階段只核准的是大概3億多3億多的部分那總共可以讓3萬多戶來接管就是10萬人所以當時我在拜託這個陳院長的時候當時在我還記得在113年4月份的時候那時候是可行性評估報告那可行性整個就通過了\n\n8\n00:03:06,818 --> 00:03:07,319\n請問院長這樣可以嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:30,745 --> 00:03:50,660\n好的謝謝委員污水下水道象徵一個都市真的是個翻身的機會讓他更乾淨那是不是內政部將來也是要跟地方政府再多做的協調預算這方面我們透過程序來編列那執行的工作還是要拜託地方政府那過程怎麼樣請部長來說明\n\n10\n00:03:51,741 --> 00:04:12,231\n報告委員我想你都知道現在國土署的分署正在審查當中那我們如果分署審查完了又需要發包我們一定按照原來的採購的發包程序在辦理然後你有提到說那個預算是不是不夠我想不會因為一個整體計劃如果通過之後他就分一二三四期慢慢來往前推進我們會跟新北市政府一起來努力\n\n11\n00:04:13,096 --> 00:04:13,597\n謝謝部長跟院長\n\n12\n00:04:43,256 --> 00:05:12,171\n我們一起來爭取當時其實過去綜合交流道在尖峰的時期它每個小時的這個車流量高達4000部所以過去都會一直塞車那我們在上個會期的時候我們一起來努力現在很多鄉親從南部就是往北在綜合往綜合的方向因為當時已經爭取了3000萬的經費把這個路肩給取消把路肩給重新來鋪設所以現在如果很多綜合的鄉親從中南部回來\n\n13\n00:05:14,073 --> 00:05:25,528\n會發現出口變雙車道增加一倍的車流量所以已經不是這麼塞車了可是過去一直以來還有一個問題就是說不管是北向跟南向\n\n14\n00:05:26,497 --> 00:05:46,548\n都會遇到一個問題就是說有些車子要往中和交流道往中和的方向去走那一定有些車子要往板橋往64的方向跑結果會造成道路交織的問題所以高空局就規劃了14.9億需要偵測閘道把閘道的這些標示往前拉\n\n15\n00:05:47,428 --> 00:06:09,730\n未來讓民眾可以提早做這個分流的狀況那希望未來可以慢慢的一步一步降低這個塞車的問題可是現在當時這個計畫我再重新報告一次當時在陳建仁院長的時候是可行性評估報告有通過那現在的部分因為這個整個計畫要7年所以我們可以看到下一個表現在還在113年的這個部分\n\n16\n00:06:11,992 --> 00:06:12,373\n行政院院長\n\n17\n00:06:30,171 --> 00:06:56,316\n之前是需要說113年的年底就可以核准那他當然還有抓了幾個月的這個緩衝期那我希望說現在已經送到國發會了那也希望說行政院這邊可以來協助看是不是在113年的年底就順利來核准因為整個工期其實要當打7年的時間那我剛剛也跟部長跟院長報告過了這個交通塞車的問題一定要快速來解決所以是不是這邊可以拜託院長\n\n18\n00:06:57,136 --> 00:06:58,698\n目前的整個程序到現在的生意\n\n19\n00:07:12,686 --> 00:07:13,727\n10月1日發文各部會回覆意見\n\n20\n00:07:42,614 --> 00:08:12,055\n好謝謝那就拜託我們各部會的首長大家一起來努力希望在年底之前我們盡快把它給核定好不好是的好謝謝好那接下來我要請教的是剛剛討論的是一開始綜合污水下水到10萬人然後再來是我們的國道交流道改善每個小時高達這個4000車次的問題要解決結果現在發現一個另外一個問題要拜託院長來協助就是我們綜合有一個綜合分局\n\n21\n00:08:13,485 --> 00:08:38,127\n他現在遇到的問題第一個是他的這個年限已老就是已經用了很長的一個時間而且過去有這個兩地駐地辦公的一個問題就是綜合分局他的駐地在一般的警察事務那另外在另外一個地方有這個偵查隊在執勤兩邊執勤造成了很多的一些行政資源上的浪費跟辦公處所一個浪費\n\n22\n00:08:42,791 --> 00:09:02,207\n中和因為我們有一些企業他在做一些都市計畫改變了以後其實他有捐贈一筆這個用地給我們的中和分局所以用地問題解決了可是營造的費用將未來會蓋地上7層地下4層的建築物營造費用有9億\n\n23\n00:09:03,955 --> 00:09:24,748\n這個部分其實新北市政府地方在籌措資源上有相當的困難所以是不是這邊請院長針對我們綜合分局他是要服務40萬人民的一個這個警察分局他的這個新建金費用地有了可是新建金費不足的問題是不是可以拜託院長來幫忙\n\n24\n00:09:26,271 --> 00:09:26,791\n市政府先用技術服務費768萬\n\n25\n00:09:46,468 --> 00:09:47,289\n新北市政府\n\n26\n00:10:04,459 --> 00:10:05,080\n針對現在的警察局\n\n27\n00:10:28,223 --> 00:10:28,243\n會來協助嗎\n\n28\n00:10:42,146 --> 00:10:59,845\n那是我們警察同仁所需要的聽測所以這邊我也希望院長跟部長其實各地全台灣各縣市都有這些公有聽測老舊的問題尤其警消的聽測老舊所以是不是說過去我知道說內政部很辛苦\n\n29\n00:11:00,345 --> 00:11:24,922\n都會有請各縣市來盤點有需要維修的部分做些維修的經費可是我這邊也比較大膽的希望院長跟部長可以主動來去盤點去追蹤去編列經費針對全台灣這個錦囂廳舍老舊的部分主動編列經費主動來修繕或是甚至有些真的是有些耐震的問題也必須如果要拆除的\n\n30\n00:11:25,242 --> 00:11:25,262\n應該編列經費\n\n31\n00:11:50,772 --> 00:12:00,879\n謝謝部長謝謝院長接下來我要問的問題就比較尖銳一點我要請教的就是說大家都知道最近這個電費又要漲了其實\n\n32\n00:12:07,424 --> 00:12:34,227\n國民黨黨團的立場一向都很直接就是希望電價要動漲不管是這個企業或者是民間的尤其是民間的一定要動漲可是我們看到從民進黨執政這幾年來尤其蔡英文政府跟賴清德政府普遍這個調漲這個電費已經高達40%我們現在所知道的台電現在是這個負毛利率這個\n\n33\n00:12:35,908 --> 00:12:59,485\n負債比高達90%現在累積虧損高達4000多億那不高函過去政府已經補貼他的3000億所以這邊我要請教院長就是說我這邊拿到一份資料這個資料是應該是國發會做的吧這個112年到122年間10年的這個電力規劃情形\n\n34\n00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:24,155\n這10年電力規劃情形不看不知道一看真的是要嚇一跳我們來看一下這個電力規劃情形從112年民進黨政府決定這個核能核二除役然後把一些這個燃煤也除以後結果他未來做的是什麼\n\n35\n00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:51,626\n我們來看一下先從這個表圖的上面來看2023年2024年2025年民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能給除役然後把一些燃煤燃煤跟燃氣的把它救市的把它除役可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是在100在112年的時候2023年的時候因為當時政府就只發揮只做\n\n36\n00:13:52,945 --> 00:14:20,052\n綠電所以當時在113年的時候全臺灣可以看到這個最下面這個夜間的尖峰的這個被轉容量只到8.1所以要跟院長跟部長講的是你沒有跟人民講的是在民進黨的能源政策底下出入的能源政策底下未來臺灣就是第一個用的是新建的燃氣白天\n\n37\n00:14:21,172 --> 00:14:36,567\n的時侯是要用綠能用高額的電費來支付電費所以這邊要先請教部長的部分還有院長的部分你們可以看到112年的時候以這個圖表來看\n\n38\n00:14:38,669 --> 00:15:07,956\n新增的就是太陽能光電所以造成113年的缺電然後我們113年的時候大量的開啟新的這個燃氣場以及太陽能光電所以第一個我要請教這個院長跟部長的我們可以看到這張表綠色的就是燃氣藍色的就是光電那光電這邊有個特別的內容就是\n\n39\n00:15:09,588 --> 00:15:36,657\n沒有前面沒有任何的地點意思就是民營電廠所以要跟院長跟部長請教第一個點就是我相信民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是說白天未來台灣的能源戰就是白天用人民的血汗錢發電就是用高額的綠能來發電晚上因為綠能沒有辦法發電所以晚上就是用廢發電就是不夠的電力用燃煤來補\n\n40\n00:15:38,654 --> 00:16:06,837\n請教院長跟部長這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎報告委員我想這個用燃氣來取代燃煤這是一個世界的方向那麼在這個還沒有說這個2050年要進行減碳的時候那麼是在發電的成本來看那麼燃煤跟燃氣是比較低的但是因為有了2050年要減碳的這個目標\n\n41\n00:16:08,353 --> 00:16:09,074\n部長我先請教一個問題我們看到下一頁\n\n42\n00:16:27,892 --> 00:16:56,948\n我要請先請教這個部長的問題就是我們可以看到這張太陽能光電的表從民工104年當時台電跟民營電廠其實當時的發電量是差不多的可是我們可以看到從110年111年不管是民營電廠的發電量大幅的上增而且我剛剛特別跟你報告通通都是民營電廠為什麼台電不自己做光電通通要把\n\n43\n00:16:59,909 --> 00:17:22,345\n這些光電把他交給民營電廠去做所以人民只有擔心的是是不是都交給這些綠油油的企業來做為什麼台電自己不做綠電交給民營電廠的話是希望能夠透過競爭民間的這個競爭讓我們的這個電的成本可以更低\n\n44\n00:17:23,688 --> 00:17:43,589\n這是交給民營電廠的成本會更低我們看到下一張表這邊這個是台電公佈的資料台電的自發電力的電費跟外購電力大家可以看到一個明顯不相當的金額如果我們是台電自發的電力風力發電是4.61\n\n45\n00:17:47,045 --> 00:18:06,391\n外購電力就是民營電廠的購電力是6.59增加了40%意思就是人民會認為這個表這麼清楚的展現出來要給民營企業就是要給他40%的利潤太陽能發電自力發電3.75給外購電力要4.85漲幅30%那我們來看燃氣現在民間沒有什麼企業會做燃氣的為什麼\n\n46\n00:18:16,414 --> 00:18:32,183\n因為外購電力3.62可是台電自發2.96漲幅只有22%我想請問院長跟部長的這樣子大家不會趨之若鶩認為政府就是要保護綠電給它固定的利潤而且要保證採購的量嗎\n\n47\n00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:58,419\n律電的部分還是一樣因為我們要快速的讓這個市場上要得到這麼多的律電如果說光是台電自己下去做可能會速度很慢所以我們需要民間的這個所以部長你講的沒錯因為當時過去台灣就已經自己台電就有做律電那台電從現在我們剛剛看到最前面那張表\n\n48\n00:18:59,448 --> 00:19:21,108\n在112年到112年間喔臺電經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電完全不做全部交給民營電廠而且民營電廠就是保證用高價收購保證收購的一個態度我私下還得知你們都請這個調度單位一定要請這個調度單位一定要用綠電這樣子去做\n\n49\n00:19:25,464 --> 00:19:40,462\n所以我常常才會跟部長跟院長講政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電用人民的血汗錢發電晚上用廢發電就是空污的問題無法解決我覺得部長院長你沒有好好解釋我沒有辦法\n\n50\n00:19:42,103 --> 00:20:03,677\n政府沒有什麼秘密沒有說而是用公開的這個圖表來告訴國人我們在2024、25、26是我們舊電廠廚藝的高峰期那為了這個廚藝的高峰期我們必須比較快速有效率的能補充這些電廠那除了台電自己做的之外你講過我們需要效率所以用民營電廠來補充\n\n51\n00:20:04,938 --> 00:20:07,020\n台電有沒有考慮要自己做綠電台電自己設綠電這個是方向\n\n52\n00:20:24,369 --> 00:20:25,490\n我現在從112年到112年間10年都沒有方向\n\n53\n00:20:37,637 --> 00:20:37,677\n除能設備\n\n54\n00:21:08,030 --> 00:21:25,302\n現在民間很多企業都知道使用儲能設備去儲存當不是尖峰的時候去儲存一些比較低價的電可是我們看到政府12年113年114年都有使用儲能設備為什麼從114年以後就不再使用儲能設備了\n\n55\n00:21:26,889 --> 00:21:52,844\n用除能設備才能去除在不是尖峰的時間去除一些比較便宜的電這樣不會讓人民認為說你只有在發展光電而且發展光電是不穩定的能源所以你還是每年要設很多的燃氣電廠造成台灣的空汙問題造成全台灣光電板設一大堆燃氣廠設一大堆而且全民每年都可能要漲兩次電價\n\n56\n00:21:54,721 --> 00:21:57,222\n我們沒有錯我們同意您的說法除能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展\n\n57\n00:22:22,329 --> 00:22:37,900\n我請問一下部長那為什麼114年以後就不發展除能設備了政府就不發展除能設備就不建置除能設備除能設備你要有那個他有使用的地方不過我們認為是這樣子因為業者他到在市場評估的時候\n\n58\n00:22:48,526 --> 00:23:03,395\n政府願意發展每年發展固定的大量的太陽能光電可是卻不知道業者卻不知道要發展多少的儲能設備這樣子我相信人民是不能接受的所以我們建議業者要自己\n\n59\n00:23:04,144 --> 00:23:05,045\n跟委員報告前一兩年\n\n60\n00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:39,935\n竹能設備民間投資的意願相當高所以它有一個電力交易平台讓民間來申請結果因為這個太多的量所以它有在前年5月稍微暫停因為7月已經重新啟動我認為這個表未來是有可能增加的今天7月重新啟動\n\n61\n00:23:40,856 --> 00:23:42,877\n臺灣人民是應該用便宜的電好的電而不是白天用綠能用人民的血汗錢納電費\n\n62\n00:24:10,438 --> 00:24:11,719\n出能設備他一定有市場\n\n63\n00:24:24,790 --> 00:24:27,191\n沒有這回事我們不可能這個這個電價的這個漲是由這個電價委員會在\n\n64\n00:24:51,325 --> 00:24:53,007\n好接下來還要再請問部長跟院長一個問題針對我們臺灣未來即將面臨的太陽能板\n\n65\n00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:21,733\n這麼多大量的太陽能板其實現在經濟部其實針對太陽能板未來的回收的這個整個基金是嚴重收取不足的那當我們有去跟這個部會去討論的時候他回答我們我問他說有一些廢棄的太陽能廠怎麼處理他說廢棄的時候很多的公司都倒閉\n\n66\n00:25:22,845 --> 00:25:41,923\n倒閉的話查無此人可是這些的太陽能板還是屬於那些倒閉的公司產生了太陽能板這個流浪漢太陽能板孤兒這些東西這些問題未來在台灣發展綠能的過程上是一個非常嚴重的問題所以請院長跟部長針對這個問題一定要\n\n67\n00:25:52,701 --> 00:26:06,946\n經濟部所屬的工業技術研究院已經有將太陽能板回收的技術現在也要成立這樣的公司所以您所擔心的這件事情我們相信是不會造成困擾\n\n68\n00:26:08,444 --> 00:26:23,359\n好那院長跟部長有提示未來這個問題會慢慢的下降我們期待不然台灣會成為這個太陽能板的孤兒的廢棄島那接下來本席要跟部長跟院長請教的就是說剛剛我們講台灣發展這麼多的這個\n\n69\n00:26:28,353 --> 00:26:40,027\n藍氣廠燃氣廠所造成的PM2.5當時我在委員會質詢的時候我特別有講我希望說臺灣很多東西不能獨樹一格尤其對臺灣的空汙指標要來調整\n\n70\n00:26:44,211 --> 00:27:04,868\n台灣大家都知道現在新聞報導有特別指出這個肺癌的造成主要的原因第一個最嚴重的新聞報導有指出就是PN2.5就是空汙的影響所以我們看到這一張的這個這個slide的表格裡面有寫現行的PN2.5的指標它是寫15\n\n71\n00:27:06,411 --> 00:27:31,688\n那未來修正後會變成12我看到這個資料的時候本來非常開心想說哇政府終於聽到我們的聲音了可是第一個我要跟這個院長報告的是他跟國際的標準美國的9還是有相當的差別以及這個總表當時在規劃的時候其實就有一些浮爆的情況因為像台灣有一些的污染物是在台灣不會出現的\n\n72\n00:27:32,913 --> 00:27:45,139\n在台灣會是0的所以這個數字台灣的空汙會造成永遠都不會有空汙因為這個數這個計算公式會造成很多的數字去虛胖所以這個部分我也要請到\n\n73\n00:27:46,833 --> 00:28:10,660\n翻到下一頁在114年第一會期的施政報告部長你的施政報告裡面針對人民最重視的空污問題在15條裡面你沒有講說要加強防治與監控改善空氣品質跟環境凝視我在看這個內容的時候第一個我懷疑這內容是照抄\n\n74\n00:28:11,833 --> 00:28:30,114\n後來我仔細來看不是照抄,內容只是我們的數據有稍微改了一下可是讓我覺得非常痛心的是說前面左邊這個資料裡面寫說截至112年12月20日子PO2.5的平均濃度是13.8\n\n75\n00:28:32,349 --> 00:28:48,408\n可是我們看到最新的施政報告裡面寫113年6月指這個PM2.5的濃度上升到15.1就代表臺灣剛剛可以連到剛剛前面跟大家講的創意的能源政策造成臺灣一直把這個\n\n76\n00:28:50,285 --> 00:28:50,645\n﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚\n\n77\n00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:38,248\n跟地方政府合作的這個空汙的檢測點完全只有一萬點完全沒有增加以及鼓勵癱瘓孤乳這些數字在113年6月底跟去年也完全沒有變動是不是代表政府對人民的空汙對人民第一名產生這個肺癌肺腺癌的問題政府是不是忽視了請可不可以院長幫我們解釋一下\n\n78\n00:29:38,928 --> 00:29:40,070\n等下等下你這樣解釋不清楚他說平均阿\n\n79\n00:29:54,951 --> 00:30:11,537\n明天等會辦到6月有差別?一個是到6月一個是一整年快要到12月20號所以是一整年所以一個除以6個除以12嗎?不一樣喔因為我們台灣四季的空屋是不一樣的高低不一樣的你意思是說下半年度空屋會減少所以這個數字會回到正常?\n\n80\n00:30:11,857 --> 00:30:12,697\n所以你的目標到年底會是10沒有\n\n81\n00:30:50,781 --> 00:30:50,802\n謝謝張智\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15312\t16133\t麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n35516\t53930\t張委員好卓院長好辛苦了這幾天今天的質詢一整天非常辛苦本席在這邊最近颱風所有我們第一線的警消還有所有救災的人員至上最深的敬意大家辛苦了院長辛苦了應該的\n55592\t83581\t好那接下來要請教院長的部分就是我本身來自的選區是新北市中和也是我們韓院長的家鄉所以當我一開始上任以來我對很多的地方的大型的建設我非常的關心那也認為我們中和地方的大型建設它的時程都一般來講都拖得比較長所以我一直在關心希望很多的時程可以進速可以加速有一些不必要的這個\n84801\t85502\t中和污水下水道接管\n106580\t131151\t說明一下他是從民國9393年就已經開始做這個中和污水下水道的接管那現在已經這個將近30年了那中國還有大概10萬的人南四角的人沒有接管所以在這個111年3月的時候由國土府核定12.87億的中和污水下水道接管\n132892\t133352\t所以這邊我跟這個院長要請託的就是說\n158210\t185418\t現在總共的總經費大概是12.87億那第一階段只核准的是大概3億多3億多的部分那總共可以讓3萬多戶來接管就是10萬人所以當時我在拜託這個陳院長的時候當時在我還記得在113年4月份的時候那時候是可行性評估報告那可行性整個就通過了\n186818\t187319\t請問院長這樣可以嗎?\n210745\t230660\t好的謝謝委員 污水下水道象徵一個都市真的是個翻身的機會讓他更乾淨那是不是內政部將來也是要跟地方政府再多做的協調預算這方面我們透過程序來編列那執行的工作還是要拜託地方政府那過程怎麼樣請部長來說明\n231741\t252231\t報告委員我想你都知道現在國土署的分署正在審查當中那我們如果分署審查完了又需要發包我們一定按照原來的採購的發包程序在辦理然後你有提到說那個預算是不是不夠我想不會因為一個整體計劃如果通過之後他就分一二三四期慢慢來往前推進我們會跟新北市政府一起來努力\n253096\t253597\t謝謝部長跟院長\n283256\t312171\t我們一起來爭取當時其實過去綜合交流道在尖峰的時期它每個小時的這個車流量高達4000部所以過去都會一直塞車那我們在上個會期的時候我們一起來努力現在很多鄉親從南部就是往北在綜合往綜合的方向因為當時已經爭取了3000萬的經費把這個路肩給取消把路肩給重新來鋪設所以現在如果很多綜合的鄉親從中南部回來\n314073\t325528\t會發現出口變雙車道增加一倍的車流量所以已經不是這麼塞車了可是過去一直以來還有一個問題就是說不管是北向跟南向\n326497\t346548\t都會遇到一個問題就是說有些車子要往中和交流道往中和的方向去走那一定有些車子要往板橋往64的方向跑結果會造成道路交織的問題所以高空局就規劃了14.9億需要偵測閘道把閘道的這些標示往前拉\n347428\t369730\t未來讓民眾可以提早做這個分流的狀況那希望未來可以慢慢的一步一步降低這個塞車的問題可是現在當時這個計畫我再重新報告一次當時在陳建仁院長的時候是可行性評估報告有通過那現在的部分因為這個整個計畫要7年所以我們可以看到下一個表現在還在113年的這個部分\n371992\t372373\t行政院院長\n390171\t416316\t之前是需要說113年的年底就可以核准那他當然還有抓了幾個月的這個緩衝期那我希望說現在已經送到國發會了那也希望說行政院這邊可以來協助看是不是在113年的年底就順利來核准因為整個工期其實要當打7年的時間那我剛剛也跟部長跟院長報告過了這個交通塞車的問題一定要快速來解決所以是不是這邊可以拜託院長\n417136\t418698\t目前的整個程序到現在的生意\n432686\t433727\t10月1日發文各部會回覆意見\n462614\t492055\t好 謝謝那就拜託我們各部會的首長大家一起來努力希望在年底之前我們盡快把它給核定好不好是的好 謝謝好 那接下來我要請教的是剛剛討論的是一開始綜合污水下水到10萬人然後再來是我們的國道交流道改善每個小時高達這個4000車次的問題要解決結果現在發現一個另外一個問題要拜託院長來協助就是我們綜合有一個綜合分局\n493485\t518127\t他現在遇到的問題第一個是他的這個年限已老就是已經用了很長的一個時間而且過去有這個兩地駐地辦公的一個問題就是綜合分局他的駐地在一般的警察事務那另外在另外一個地方有這個偵查隊在執勤兩邊執勤造成了很多的一些行政資源上的浪費跟辦公處所一個浪費\n522791\t542207\t中和因為我們有一些企業他在做一些都市計畫改變了以後其實他有捐贈一筆這個用地給我們的中和分局所以用地問題解決了可是營造的費用將未來會蓋地上7層地下4層的建築物營造費用有9億\n543955\t564748\t這個部分其實新北市政府地方在籌措資源上有相當的困難所以是不是這邊請院長針對我們綜合分局他是要服務40萬人民的一個這個警察分局他的這個新建金費用地有了可是新建金費不足的問題是不是可以拜託院長來幫忙\n566271\t566791\t市政府先用技術服務費768萬\n586468\t587289\t新北市政府\n604459\t605080\t針對現在的警察局\n628223\t628243\t會來協助嗎\n642146\t659845\t那是我們警察同仁所需要的聽測所以這邊我也希望院長跟部長其實各地全台灣各縣市都有這些公有聽測老舊的問題尤其警消的聽測老舊所以是不是說過去我知道說內政部很辛苦\n660345\t684922\t都會有請各縣市來盤點有需要維修的部分做些維修的經費可是我這邊也比較大膽的希望院長跟部長可以主動來去盤點去追蹤去編列經費針對全台灣這個錦囂廳舍老舊的部分主動編列經費主動來修繕或是甚至有些真的是有些耐震的問題也必須如果要拆除的\n685242\t685262\t應該編列經費\n710772\t720879\t謝謝部長謝謝院長接下來我要問的問題就比較尖銳一點我要請教的就是說大家都知道最近這個電費又要漲了其實\n727424\t754227\t國民黨黨團的立場一向都很直接就是希望電價要動漲不管是這個企業或者是民間的尤其是民間的一定要動漲可是我們看到從民進黨執政這幾年來尤其蔡英文政府跟賴清德政府普遍這個調漲這個電費已經高達40%我們現在所知道的台電現在是這個負毛利率這個\n755908\t779485\t負債比高達90%現在累積虧損高達4000多億那不高函過去政府已經補貼他的3000億所以這邊我要請教院長就是說我這邊拿到一份資料這個資料是應該是國發會做的吧這個112年到122年間10年的這個電力規劃情形\n783130\t804155\t這10年電力規劃情形不看不知道一看真的是要嚇一跳我們來看一下這個電力規劃情形從112年民進黨政府決定這個核能核二除役然後把一些這個燃煤也除以後結果他未來做的是什麼\n806159\t831626\t我們來看一下先從這個表圖的上面來看2023年2024年2025年民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能給除役然後把一些燃煤燃煤跟燃氣的把它救市的把它除役可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是在100在112年的時候2023年的時候因為當時政府就只發揮只做\n832945\t860052\t綠電所以當時在113年的時候全臺灣可以看到這個最下面這個夜間的尖峰的這個被轉容量只到8.1所以要跟院長跟部長講的是你沒有跟人民講的是在民進黨的能源政策底下出入的能源政策底下未來臺灣就是第一個用的是新建的燃氣白天\n861172\t876567\t的時侯是要用綠能用高額的電費來支付電費所以這邊要先請教部長的部分還有院長的部分你們可以看到112年的時候以這個圖表來看\n878669\t907956\t新增的就是太陽能光電所以造成113年的缺電然後我們113年的時候大量的開啟新的這個燃氣場以及太陽能光電所以第一個我要請教這個院長跟部長的我們可以看到這張表綠色的就是燃氣藍色的就是光電那光電這邊有個特別的內容就是\n909588\t936657\t沒有前面沒有任何的地點意思就是民營電廠所以要跟院長跟部長請教第一個點就是我相信民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是說白天未來台灣的能源戰就是白天用人民的血汗錢發電就是用高額的綠能來發電晚上因為綠能沒有辦法發電所以晚上就是用廢發電就是不夠的電力用燃煤來補\n938654\t966837\t請教院長跟部長這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎報告委員我想這個用燃氣來取代燃煤這是一個世界的方向那麼在這個還沒有說這個2050年要進行減碳的時候那麼是在發電的成本來看那麼燃煤跟燃氣是比較低的但是因為有了2050年要減碳的這個目標\n968353\t969074\t部長我先請教一個問題我們看到下一頁\n987892\t1016948\t我要請先請教這個部長的問題就是我們可以看到這張太陽能光電的表從民工104年當時台電跟民營電廠其實當時的發電量是差不多的可是我們可以看到從110年111年不管是民營電廠的發電量大幅的上增而且我剛剛特別跟你報告通通都是民營電廠為什麼台電不自己做光電通通要把\n1019909\t1042345\t這些光電把他交給民營電廠去做所以人民只有擔心的是是不是都交給這些綠油油的企業來做為什麼台電自己不做綠電交給民營電廠的話是希望能夠透過競爭民間的這個競爭讓我們的這個電的成本可以更低\n1043688\t1063589\t這是交給民營電廠的成本會更低我們看到下一張表這邊這個是台電公佈的資料台電的自發電力的電費跟外購電力大家可以看到一個明顯不相當的金額如果我們是台電自發的電力風力發電是4.61\n1067045\t1086391\t外購電力就是民營電廠的購電力是6.59增加了40%意思就是人民會認為這個表這麼清楚的展現出來要給民營企業就是要給他40%的利潤太陽能發電自力發電3.75給外購電力要4.85漲幅30%那我們來看燃氣現在民間沒有什麼企業會做燃氣的為什麼\n1096414\t1112183\t因為外購電力3.62可是台電自發2.96漲幅只有22%我想請問院長跟部長的這樣子大家不會趨之若鶩認為政府就是要保護綠電給它固定的利潤而且要保證採購的量嗎\n1115180\t1138419\t律電的部分還是一樣因為我們要快速的讓這個市場上要得到這麼多的律電如果說光是台電自己下去做可能會速度很慢所以我們需要民間的這個所以部長你講的沒錯因為當時過去台灣就已經自己台電就有做律電那台電從現在我們剛剛看到最前面那張表\n1139448\t1161108\t在112年到112年間喔臺電經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電完全不做全部交給民營電廠而且民營電廠就是保證用高價收購保證收購的一個態度我私下還得知你們都請這個調度單位一定要請這個調度單位一定要用綠電這樣子去做\n1165464\t1180462\t所以我常常才會跟部長跟院長講政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電用人民的血汗錢發電晚上用廢發電就是空污的問題無法解決我覺得部長院長你沒有好好解釋我沒有辦法\n1182103\t1203677\t政府沒有什麼秘密沒有說而是用公開的這個圖表來告訴國人我們在2024、25、26是我們舊電廠廚藝的高峰期那為了這個廚藝的高峰期我們必須比較快速有效率的能補充這些電廠那除了台電自己做的之外你講過我們需要效率所以用民營電廠來補充\n1204938\t1207020\t台電有沒有考慮要自己做綠電台電自己設綠電這個是方向\n1224369\t1225490\t我現在從112年到112年間10年都沒有方向\n1237637\t1237677\t除能設備\n1268030\t1285302\t現在民間很多企業都知道使用儲能設備去儲存當不是尖峰的時候去儲存一些比較低價的電可是我們看到政府12年113年114年都有使用儲能設備為什麼從114年以後就不再使用儲能設備了\n1286889\t1312844\t用除能設備才能去除在不是尖峰的時間去除一些比較便宜的電這樣不會讓人民認為說你只有在發展光電而且發展光電是不穩定的能源所以你還是每年要設很多的燃氣電廠造成台灣的空汙問題造成全台灣光電板設一大堆燃氣廠設一大堆而且全民每年都可能要漲兩次電價\n1314721\t1317222\t我們沒有錯我們同意您的說法除能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展\n1342329\t1357900\t我請問一下部長那為什麼114年以後就不發展除能設備了政府就不發展除能設備就不建置除能設備除能設備你要有那個他有使用的地方不過我們認為是這樣子因為業者他到在市場評估的時候\n1368526\t1383395\t政府願意發展每年發展固定的大量的太陽能光電可是卻不知道業者卻不知道要發展多少的儲能設備這樣子我相信人民是不能接受的所以我們建議業者要自己\n1384144\t1385045\t跟委員報告前一兩年\n1401180\t1419935\t竹能設備民間投資的意願相當高所以它有一個電力交易平台讓民間來申請結果因為這個太多的量所以它有在前年5月稍微暫停因為7月已經重新啟動我認為這個表未來是有可能增加的今天7月重新啟動\n1420856\t1422877\t臺灣人民是應該用便宜的電好的電而不是白天用綠能用人民的血汗錢納電費\n1450438\t1451719\t出能設備他一定有市場\n1464790\t1467191\t沒有這回事我們不可能這個這個電價的這個漲是由這個電價委員會在\n1491325\t1493007\t好 接下來還要再請問部長跟院長一個問題針對我們臺灣未來即將面臨的太陽能板\n1500559\t1521733\t這麼多大量的太陽能板其實現在經濟部其實針對太陽能板未來的回收的這個整個基金是嚴重收取不足的那當我們有去跟這個部會去討論的時候他回答我們我問他說有一些廢棄的太陽能廠怎麼處理他說廢棄的時候很多的公司都倒閉\n1522845\t1541923\t倒閉的話查無此人可是這些的太陽能板還是屬於那些倒閉的公司產生了太陽能板這個流浪漢太陽能板孤兒這些東西這些問題未來在台灣發展綠能的過程上是一個非常嚴重的問題所以請院長跟部長針對這個問題一定要\n1552701\t1566946\t經濟部所屬的工業技術研究院已經有將太陽能板回收的技術現在也要成立這樣的公司所以您所擔心的這件事情我們相信是不會造成困擾\n1568444\t1583359\t好那院長跟部長有提示未來這個問題會慢慢的下降我們期待不然台灣會成為這個太陽能板的孤兒的廢棄島那接下來本席要跟部長跟院長請教的就是說剛剛我們講台灣發展這麼多的這個\n1588353\t1600027\t藍氣廠燃氣廠所造成的PM2.5當時我在委員會質詢的時候我特別有講我希望說臺灣很多東西不能獨樹一格尤其對臺灣的空汙指標要來調整\n1604211\t1624868\t台灣大家都知道現在新聞報導有特別指出這個肺癌的造成主要的原因第一個最嚴重的新聞報導有指出就是PN2.5就是空汙的影響所以我們看到這一張的這個這個slide的表格裡面有寫現行的PN2.5的指標它是寫15\n1626411\t1651688\t那未來修正後會變成12我看到這個資料的時候本來非常開心想說哇政府終於聽到我們的聲音了可是第一個我要跟這個院長報告的是他跟國際的標準美國的9還是有相當的差別以及這個總表當時在規劃的時候其實就有一些浮爆的情況因為像台灣有一些的污染物是在台灣不會出現的\n1652913\t1665139\t在台灣會是0的所以這個數字台灣的空汙會造成永遠都不會有空汙因為這個數這個計算公式會造成很多的數字去虛胖所以這個部分我也要請到\n1666833\t1690660\t翻到下一頁在114年第一會期的施政報告部長你的施政報告裡面針對人民最重視的空污問題在15條裡面你沒有講說要加強防治與監控改善空氣品質跟環境凝視我在看這個內容的時候第一個我懷疑這內容是照抄\n1691833\t1710114\t後來我仔細來看不是照抄,內容只是我們的數據有稍微改了一下可是讓我覺得非常痛心的是說前面左邊這個資料裡面寫說截至112年12月20日子PO2.5的平均濃度是13.8\n1712349\t1728408\t可是我們看到最新的施政報告裡面寫113年6月指這個PM2.5的濃度上升到15.1就代表臺灣剛剛可以連到剛剛前面跟大家講的創意的能源政策造成臺灣一直把這個\n1730285\t1730645\t﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚\n1755100\t1778248\t跟地方政府合作的這個 空汙的檢測點完全只有一萬點 完全沒有增加以及鼓勵癱瘓 孤乳這些數字在113年6月底跟去年也完全沒有變動是不是代表政府對人民的空汙對人民第一名產生這個肺癌 肺腺癌的問題政府是不是忽視了 請可不可以院長幫我們解釋一下\n1778928\t1780070\t等下等下你這樣解釋不清楚他說平均阿\n1794951\t1811537\t明天等會辦到6月有差別?一個是到6月一個是一整年快要到12月20號所以是一整年所以一個除以6個除以12嗎?不一樣喔因為我們台灣四季的空屋是不一樣的高低不一樣的你意思是說下半年度空屋會減少所以這個數字會回到正常?\n1811857\t1812697\t所以你的目標到年底會是10沒有\n1850781\t1850802\t謝謝張智\n","txt":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n張委員好卓院長好辛苦了這幾天今天的質詢一整天非常辛苦本席在這邊最近颱風所有我們第一線的警消還有所有救災的人員至上最深的敬意大家辛苦了院長辛苦了應該的\n好那接下來要請教院長的部分就是我本身來自的選區是新北市中和也是我們韓院長的家鄉所以當我一開始上任以來我對很多的地方的大型的建設我非常的關心那也認為我們中和地方的大型建設它的時程都一般來講都拖得比較長所以我一直在關心希望很多的時程可以進速可以加速有一些不必要的這個\n中和污水下水道接管\n說明一下他是從民國9393年就已經開始做這個中和污水下水道的接管那現在已經這個將近30年了那中國還有大概10萬的人南四角的人沒有接管所以在這個111年3月的時候由國土府核定12.87億的中和污水下水道接管\n所以這邊我跟這個院長要請託的就是說\n現在總共的總經費大概是12.87億那第一階段只核准的是大概3億多3億多的部分那總共可以讓3萬多戶來接管就是10萬人所以當時我在拜託這個陳院長的時候當時在我還記得在113年4月份的時候那時候是可行性評估報告那可行性整個就通過了\n請問院長這樣可以嗎?\n好的謝謝委員 污水下水道象徵一個都市真的是個翻身的機會讓他更乾淨那是不是內政部將來也是要跟地方政府再多做的協調預算這方面我們透過程序來編列那執行的工作還是要拜託地方政府那過程怎麼樣請部長來說明\n報告委員我想你都知道現在國土署的分署正在審查當中那我們如果分署審查完了又需要發包我們一定按照原來的採購的發包程序在辦理然後你有提到說那個預算是不是不夠我想不會因為一個整體計劃如果通過之後他就分一二三四期慢慢來往前推進我們會跟新北市政府一起來努力\n謝謝部長跟院長\n我們一起來爭取當時其實過去綜合交流道在尖峰的時期它每個小時的這個車流量高達4000部所以過去都會一直塞車那我們在上個會期的時候我們一起來努力現在很多鄉親從南部就是往北在綜合往綜合的方向因為當時已經爭取了3000萬的經費把這個路肩給取消把路肩給重新來鋪設所以現在如果很多綜合的鄉親從中南部回來\n會發現出口變雙車道增加一倍的車流量所以已經不是這麼塞車了可是過去一直以來還有一個問題就是說不管是北向跟南向\n都會遇到一個問題就是說有些車子要往中和交流道往中和的方向去走那一定有些車子要往板橋往64的方向跑結果會造成道路交織的問題所以高空局就規劃了14.9億需要偵測閘道把閘道的這些標示往前拉\n未來讓民眾可以提早做這個分流的狀況那希望未來可以慢慢的一步一步降低這個塞車的問題可是現在當時這個計畫我再重新報告一次當時在陳建仁院長的時候是可行性評估報告有通過那現在的部分因為這個整個計畫要7年所以我們可以看到下一個表現在還在113年的這個部分\n行政院院長\n之前是需要說113年的年底就可以核准那他當然還有抓了幾個月的這個緩衝期那我希望說現在已經送到國發會了那也希望說行政院這邊可以來協助看是不是在113年的年底就順利來核准因為整個工期其實要當打7年的時間那我剛剛也跟部長跟院長報告過了這個交通塞車的問題一定要快速來解決所以是不是這邊可以拜託院長\n目前的整個程序到現在的生意\n10月1日發文各部會回覆意見\n好 謝謝那就拜託我們各部會的首長大家一起來努力希望在年底之前我們盡快把它給核定好不好是的好 謝謝好 那接下來我要請教的是剛剛討論的是一開始綜合污水下水到10萬人然後再來是我們的國道交流道改善每個小時高達這個4000車次的問題要解決結果現在發現一個另外一個問題要拜託院長來協助就是我們綜合有一個綜合分局\n他現在遇到的問題第一個是他的這個年限已老就是已經用了很長的一個時間而且過去有這個兩地駐地辦公的一個問題就是綜合分局他的駐地在一般的警察事務那另外在另外一個地方有這個偵查隊在執勤兩邊執勤造成了很多的一些行政資源上的浪費跟辦公處所一個浪費\n中和因為我們有一些企業他在做一些都市計畫改變了以後其實他有捐贈一筆這個用地給我們的中和分局所以用地問題解決了可是營造的費用將未來會蓋地上7層地下4層的建築物營造費用有9億\n這個部分其實新北市政府地方在籌措資源上有相當的困難所以是不是這邊請院長針對我們綜合分局他是要服務40萬人民的一個這個警察分局他的這個新建金費用地有了可是新建金費不足的問題是不是可以拜託院長來幫忙\n市政府先用技術服務費768萬\n新北市政府\n針對現在的警察局\n會來協助嗎\n那是我們警察同仁所需要的聽測所以這邊我也希望院長跟部長其實各地全台灣各縣市都有這些公有聽測老舊的問題尤其警消的聽測老舊所以是不是說過去我知道說內政部很辛苦\n都會有請各縣市來盤點有需要維修的部分做些維修的經費可是我這邊也比較大膽的希望院長跟部長可以主動來去盤點去追蹤去編列經費針對全台灣這個錦囂廳舍老舊的部分主動編列經費主動來修繕或是甚至有些真的是有些耐震的問題也必須如果要拆除的\n應該編列經費\n謝謝部長謝謝院長接下來我要問的問題就比較尖銳一點我要請教的就是說大家都知道最近這個電費又要漲了其實\n國民黨黨團的立場一向都很直接就是希望電價要動漲不管是這個企業或者是民間的尤其是民間的一定要動漲可是我們看到從民進黨執政這幾年來尤其蔡英文政府跟賴清德政府普遍這個調漲這個電費已經高達40%我們現在所知道的台電現在是這個負毛利率這個\n負債比高達90%現在累積虧損高達4000多億那不高函過去政府已經補貼他的3000億所以這邊我要請教院長就是說我這邊拿到一份資料這個資料是應該是國發會做的吧這個112年到122年間10年的這個電力規劃情形\n這10年電力規劃情形不看不知道一看真的是要嚇一跳我們來看一下這個電力規劃情形從112年民進黨政府決定這個核能核二除役然後把一些這個燃煤也除以後結果他未來做的是什麼\n我們來看一下先從這個表圖的上面來看2023年2024年2025年民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能給除役然後把一些燃煤燃煤跟燃氣的把它救市的把它除役可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是在100在112年的時候2023年的時候因為當時政府就只發揮只做\n綠電所以當時在113年的時候全臺灣可以看到這個最下面這個夜間的尖峰的這個被轉容量只到8.1所以要跟院長跟部長講的是你沒有跟人民講的是在民進黨的能源政策底下出入的能源政策底下未來臺灣就是第一個用的是新建的燃氣白天\n的時侯是要用綠能用高額的電費來支付電費所以這邊要先請教部長的部分還有院長的部分你們可以看到112年的時候以這個圖表來看\n新增的就是太陽能光電所以造成113年的缺電然後我們113年的時候大量的開啟新的這個燃氣場以及太陽能光電所以第一個我要請教這個院長跟部長的我們可以看到這張表綠色的就是燃氣藍色的就是光電那光電這邊有個特別的內容就是\n沒有前面沒有任何的地點意思就是民營電廠所以要跟院長跟部長請教第一個點就是我相信民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是說白天未來台灣的能源戰就是白天用人民的血汗錢發電就是用高額的綠能來發電晚上因為綠能沒有辦法發電所以晚上就是用廢發電就是不夠的電力用燃煤來補\n請教院長跟部長這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎報告委員我想這個用燃氣來取代燃煤這是一個世界的方向那麼在這個還沒有說這個2050年要進行減碳的時候那麼是在發電的成本來看那麼燃煤跟燃氣是比較低的但是因為有了2050年要減碳的這個目標\n部長我先請教一個問題我們看到下一頁\n我要請先請教這個部長的問題就是我們可以看到這張太陽能光電的表從民工104年當時台電跟民營電廠其實當時的發電量是差不多的可是我們可以看到從110年111年不管是民營電廠的發電量大幅的上增而且我剛剛特別跟你報告通通都是民營電廠為什麼台電不自己做光電通通要把\n這些光電把他交給民營電廠去做所以人民只有擔心的是是不是都交給這些綠油油的企業來做為什麼台電自己不做綠電交給民營電廠的話是希望能夠透過競爭民間的這個競爭讓我們的這個電的成本可以更低\n這是交給民營電廠的成本會更低我們看到下一張表這邊這個是台電公佈的資料台電的自發電力的電費跟外購電力大家可以看到一個明顯不相當的金額如果我們是台電自發的電力風力發電是4.61\n外購電力就是民營電廠的購電力是6.59增加了40%意思就是人民會認為這個表這麼清楚的展現出來要給民營企業就是要給他40%的利潤太陽能發電自力發電3.75給外購電力要4.85漲幅30%那我們來看燃氣現在民間沒有什麼企業會做燃氣的為什麼\n因為外購電力3.62可是台電自發2.96漲幅只有22%我想請問院長跟部長的這樣子大家不會趨之若鶩認為政府就是要保護綠電給它固定的利潤而且要保證採購的量嗎\n律電的部分還是一樣因為我們要快速的讓這個市場上要得到這麼多的律電如果說光是台電自己下去做可能會速度很慢所以我們需要民間的這個所以部長你講的沒錯因為當時過去台灣就已經自己台電就有做律電那台電從現在我們剛剛看到最前面那張表\n在112年到112年間喔臺電經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電完全不做全部交給民營電廠而且民營電廠就是保證用高價收購保證收購的一個態度我私下還得知你們都請這個調度單位一定要請這個調度單位一定要用綠電這樣子去做\n所以我常常才會跟部長跟院長講政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電用人民的血汗錢發電晚上用廢發電就是空污的問題無法解決我覺得部長院長你沒有好好解釋我沒有辦法\n政府沒有什麼秘密沒有說而是用公開的這個圖表來告訴國人我們在2024、25、26是我們舊電廠廚藝的高峰期那為了這個廚藝的高峰期我們必須比較快速有效率的能補充這些電廠那除了台電自己做的之外你講過我們需要效率所以用民營電廠來補充\n台電有沒有考慮要自己做綠電台電自己設綠電這個是方向\n我現在從112年到112年間10年都沒有方向\n除能設備\n現在民間很多企業都知道使用儲能設備去儲存當不是尖峰的時候去儲存一些比較低價的電可是我們看到政府12年113年114年都有使用儲能設備為什麼從114年以後就不再使用儲能設備了\n用除能設備才能去除在不是尖峰的時間去除一些比較便宜的電這樣不會讓人民認為說你只有在發展光電而且發展光電是不穩定的能源所以你還是每年要設很多的燃氣電廠造成台灣的空汙問題造成全台灣光電板設一大堆燃氣廠設一大堆而且全民每年都可能要漲兩次電價\n我們沒有錯我們同意您的說法除能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展\n我請問一下部長那為什麼114年以後就不發展除能設備了政府就不發展除能設備就不建置除能設備除能設備你要有那個他有使用的地方不過我們認為是這樣子因為業者他到在市場評估的時候\n政府願意發展每年發展固定的大量的太陽能光電可是卻不知道業者卻不知道要發展多少的儲能設備這樣子我相信人民是不能接受的所以我們建議業者要自己\n跟委員報告前一兩年\n竹能設備民間投資的意願相當高所以它有一個電力交易平台讓民間來申請結果因為這個太多的量所以它有在前年5月稍微暫停因為7月已經重新啟動我認為這個表未來是有可能增加的今天7月重新啟動\n臺灣人民是應該用便宜的電好的電而不是白天用綠能用人民的血汗錢納電費\n出能設備他一定有市場\n沒有這回事我們不可能這個這個電價的這個漲是由這個電價委員會在\n好 接下來還要再請問部長跟院長一個問題針對我們臺灣未來即將面臨的太陽能板\n這麼多大量的太陽能板其實現在經濟部其實針對太陽能板未來的回收的這個整個基金是嚴重收取不足的那當我們有去跟這個部會去討論的時候他回答我們我問他說有一些廢棄的太陽能廠怎麼處理他說廢棄的時候很多的公司都倒閉\n倒閉的話查無此人可是這些的太陽能板還是屬於那些倒閉的公司產生了太陽能板這個流浪漢太陽能板孤兒這些東西這些問題未來在台灣發展綠能的過程上是一個非常嚴重的問題所以請院長跟部長針對這個問題一定要\n經濟部所屬的工業技術研究院已經有將太陽能板回收的技術現在也要成立這樣的公司所以您所擔心的這件事情我們相信是不會造成困擾\n好那院長跟部長有提示未來這個問題會慢慢的下降我們期待不然台灣會成為這個太陽能板的孤兒的廢棄島那接下來本席要跟部長跟院長請教的就是說剛剛我們講台灣發展這麼多的這個\n藍氣廠燃氣廠所造成的PM2.5當時我在委員會質詢的時候我特別有講我希望說臺灣很多東西不能獨樹一格尤其對臺灣的空汙指標要來調整\n台灣大家都知道現在新聞報導有特別指出這個肺癌的造成主要的原因第一個最嚴重的新聞報導有指出就是PN2.5就是空汙的影響所以我們看到這一張的這個這個slide的表格裡面有寫現行的PN2.5的指標它是寫15\n那未來修正後會變成12我看到這個資料的時候本來非常開心想說哇政府終於聽到我們的聲音了可是第一個我要跟這個院長報告的是他跟國際的標準美國的9還是有相當的差別以及這個總表當時在規劃的時候其實就有一些浮爆的情況因為像台灣有一些的污染物是在台灣不會出現的\n在台灣會是0的所以這個數字台灣的空汙會造成永遠都不會有空汙因為這個數這個計算公式會造成很多的數字去虛胖所以這個部分我也要請到\n翻到下一頁在114年第一會期的施政報告部長你的施政報告裡面針對人民最重視的空污問題在15條裡面你沒有講說要加強防治與監控改善空氣品質跟環境凝視我在看這個內容的時候第一個我懷疑這內容是照抄\n後來我仔細來看不是照抄,內容只是我們的數據有稍微改了一下可是讓我覺得非常痛心的是說前面左邊這個資料裡面寫說截至112年12月20日子PO2.5的平均濃度是13.8\n可是我們看到最新的施政報告裡面寫113年6月指這個PM2.5的濃度上升到15.1就代表臺灣剛剛可以連到剛剛前面跟大家講的創意的能源政策造成臺灣一直把這個\n﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚\n跟地方政府合作的這個 空汙的檢測點完全只有一萬點 完全沒有增加以及鼓勵癱瘓 孤乳這些數字在113年6月底跟去年也完全沒有變動是不是代表政府對人民的空汙對人民第一名產生這個肺癌 肺腺癌的問題政府是不是忽視了 請可不可以院長幫我們解釋一下\n等下等下你這樣解釋不清楚他說平均阿\n明天等會辦到6月有差別?一個是到6月一個是一整年快要到12月20號所以是一整年所以一個除以6個除以12嗎?不一樣喔因為我們台灣四季的空屋是不一樣的高低不一樣的你意思是說下半年度空屋會減少所以這個數字會回到正常?\n所以你的目標到年底會是10沒有\n謝謝張智\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.312 --> 00:16.133\n麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:35.516 --> 00:53.930\n張委員好卓院長好辛苦了這幾天今天的質詢一整天非常辛苦本席在這邊最近颱風所有我們第一線的警消還有所有救災的人員至上最深的敬意大家辛苦了院長辛苦了應該的\n\n00:55.592 --> 01:23.581\n好那接下來要請教院長的部分就是我本身來自的選區是新北市中和也是我們韓院長的家鄉所以當我一開始上任以來我對很多的地方的大型的建設我非常的關心那也認為我們中和地方的大型建設它的時程都一般來講都拖得比較長所以我一直在關心希望很多的時程可以進速可以加速有一些不必要的這個\n\n01:24.801 --> 01:25.502\n中和污水下水道接管\n\n01:46.580 --> 02:11.151\n說明一下他是從民國9393年就已經開始做這個中和污水下水道的接管那現在已經這個將近30年了那中國還有大概10萬的人南四角的人沒有接管所以在這個111年3月的時候由國土府核定12.87億的中和污水下水道接管\n\n02:12.892 --> 02:13.352\n所以這邊我跟這個院長要請託的就是說\n\n02:38.210 --> 03:05.418\n現在總共的總經費大概是12.87億那第一階段只核准的是大概3億多3億多的部分那總共可以讓3萬多戶來接管就是10萬人所以當時我在拜託這個陳院長的時候當時在我還記得在113年4月份的時候那時候是可行性評估報告那可行性整個就通過了\n\n03:06.818 --> 03:07.319\n請問院長這樣可以嗎?\n\n03:30.745 --> 03:50.660\n好的謝謝委員污水下水道象徵一個都市真的是個翻身的機會讓他更乾淨那是不是內政部將來也是要跟地方政府再多做的協調預算這方面我們透過程序來編列那執行的工作還是要拜託地方政府那過程怎麼樣請部長來說明\n\n03:51.741 --> 04:12.231\n報告委員我想你都知道現在國土署的分署正在審查當中那我們如果分署審查完了又需要發包我們一定按照原來的採購的發包程序在辦理然後你有提到說那個預算是不是不夠我想不會因為一個整體計劃如果通過之後他就分一二三四期慢慢來往前推進我們會跟新北市政府一起來努力\n\n04:13.096 --> 04:13.597\n謝謝部長跟院長\n\n04:43.256 --> 05:12.171\n我們一起來爭取當時其實過去綜合交流道在尖峰的時期它每個小時的這個車流量高達4000部所以過去都會一直塞車那我們在上個會期的時候我們一起來努力現在很多鄉親從南部就是往北在綜合往綜合的方向因為當時已經爭取了3000萬的經費把這個路肩給取消把路肩給重新來鋪設所以現在如果很多綜合的鄉親從中南部回來\n\n05:14.073 --> 05:25.528\n會發現出口變雙車道增加一倍的車流量所以已經不是這麼塞車了可是過去一直以來還有一個問題就是說不管是北向跟南向\n\n05:26.497 --> 05:46.548\n都會遇到一個問題就是說有些車子要往中和交流道往中和的方向去走那一定有些車子要往板橋往64的方向跑結果會造成道路交織的問題所以高空局就規劃了14.9億需要偵測閘道把閘道的這些標示往前拉\n\n05:47.428 --> 06:09.730\n未來讓民眾可以提早做這個分流的狀況那希望未來可以慢慢的一步一步降低這個塞車的問題可是現在當時這個計畫我再重新報告一次當時在陳建仁院長的時候是可行性評估報告有通過那現在的部分因為這個整個計畫要7年所以我們可以看到下一個表現在還在113年的這個部分\n\n06:11.992 --> 06:12.373\n行政院院長\n\n06:30.171 --> 06:56.316\n之前是需要說113年的年底就可以核准那他當然還有抓了幾個月的這個緩衝期那我希望說現在已經送到國發會了那也希望說行政院這邊可以來協助看是不是在113年的年底就順利來核准因為整個工期其實要當打7年的時間那我剛剛也跟部長跟院長報告過了這個交通塞車的問題一定要快速來解決所以是不是這邊可以拜託院長\n\n06:57.136 --> 06:58.698\n目前的整個程序到現在的生意\n\n07:12.686 --> 07:13.727\n10月1日發文各部會回覆意見\n\n07:42.614 --> 08:12.055\n好謝謝那就拜託我們各部會的首長大家一起來努力希望在年底之前我們盡快把它給核定好不好是的好謝謝好那接下來我要請教的是剛剛討論的是一開始綜合污水下水到10萬人然後再來是我們的國道交流道改善每個小時高達這個4000車次的問題要解決結果現在發現一個另外一個問題要拜託院長來協助就是我們綜合有一個綜合分局\n\n08:13.485 --> 08:38.127\n他現在遇到的問題第一個是他的這個年限已老就是已經用了很長的一個時間而且過去有這個兩地駐地辦公的一個問題就是綜合分局他的駐地在一般的警察事務那另外在另外一個地方有這個偵查隊在執勤兩邊執勤造成了很多的一些行政資源上的浪費跟辦公處所一個浪費\n\n08:42.791 --> 09:02.207\n中和因為我們有一些企業他在做一些都市計畫改變了以後其實他有捐贈一筆這個用地給我們的中和分局所以用地問題解決了可是營造的費用將未來會蓋地上7層地下4層的建築物營造費用有9億\n\n09:03.955 --> 09:24.748\n這個部分其實新北市政府地方在籌措資源上有相當的困難所以是不是這邊請院長針對我們綜合分局他是要服務40萬人民的一個這個警察分局他的這個新建金費用地有了可是新建金費不足的問題是不是可以拜託院長來幫忙\n\n09:26.271 --> 09:26.791\n市政府先用技術服務費768萬\n\n09:46.468 --> 09:47.289\n新北市政府\n\n10:04.459 --> 10:05.080\n針對現在的警察局\n\n10:28.223 --> 10:28.243\n會來協助嗎\n\n10:42.146 --> 10:59.845\n那是我們警察同仁所需要的聽測所以這邊我也希望院長跟部長其實各地全台灣各縣市都有這些公有聽測老舊的問題尤其警消的聽測老舊所以是不是說過去我知道說內政部很辛苦\n\n11:00.345 --> 11:24.922\n都會有請各縣市來盤點有需要維修的部分做些維修的經費可是我這邊也比較大膽的希望院長跟部長可以主動來去盤點去追蹤去編列經費針對全台灣這個錦囂廳舍老舊的部分主動編列經費主動來修繕或是甚至有些真的是有些耐震的問題也必須如果要拆除的\n\n11:25.242 --> 11:25.262\n應該編列經費\n\n11:50.772 --> 12:00.879\n謝謝部長謝謝院長接下來我要問的問題就比較尖銳一點我要請教的就是說大家都知道最近這個電費又要漲了其實\n\n12:07.424 --> 12:34.227\n國民黨黨團的立場一向都很直接就是希望電價要動漲不管是這個企業或者是民間的尤其是民間的一定要動漲可是我們看到從民進黨執政這幾年來尤其蔡英文政府跟賴清德政府普遍這個調漲這個電費已經高達40%我們現在所知道的台電現在是這個負毛利率這個\n\n12:35.908 --> 12:59.485\n負債比高達90%現在累積虧損高達4000多億那不高函過去政府已經補貼他的3000億所以這邊我要請教院長就是說我這邊拿到一份資料這個資料是應該是國發會做的吧這個112年到122年間10年的這個電力規劃情形\n\n13:03.130 --> 13:24.155\n這10年電力規劃情形不看不知道一看真的是要嚇一跳我們來看一下這個電力規劃情形從112年民進黨政府決定這個核能核二除役然後把一些這個燃煤也除以後結果他未來做的是什麼\n\n13:26.159 --> 13:51.626\n我們來看一下先從這個表圖的上面來看2023年2024年2025年民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能給除役然後把一些燃煤燃煤跟燃氣的把它救市的把它除役可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是在100在112年的時候2023年的時候因為當時政府就只發揮只做\n\n13:52.945 --> 14:20.052\n綠電所以當時在113年的時候全臺灣可以看到這個最下面這個夜間的尖峰的這個被轉容量只到8.1所以要跟院長跟部長講的是你沒有跟人民講的是在民進黨的能源政策底下出入的能源政策底下未來臺灣就是第一個用的是新建的燃氣白天\n\n14:21.172 --> 14:36.567\n的時侯是要用綠能用高額的電費來支付電費所以這邊要先請教部長的部分還有院長的部分你們可以看到112年的時候以這個圖表來看\n\n14:38.669 --> 15:07.956\n新增的就是太陽能光電所以造成113年的缺電然後我們113年的時候大量的開啟新的這個燃氣場以及太陽能光電所以第一個我要請教這個院長跟部長的我們可以看到這張表綠色的就是燃氣藍色的就是光電那光電這邊有個特別的內容就是\n\n15:09.588 --> 15:36.657\n沒有前面沒有任何的地點意思就是民營電廠所以要跟院長跟部長請教第一個點就是我相信民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是說白天未來台灣的能源戰就是白天用人民的血汗錢發電就是用高額的綠能來發電晚上因為綠能沒有辦法發電所以晚上就是用廢發電就是不夠的電力用燃煤來補\n\n15:38.654 --> 16:06.837\n請教院長跟部長這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎報告委員我想這個用燃氣來取代燃煤這是一個世界的方向那麼在這個還沒有說這個2050年要進行減碳的時候那麼是在發電的成本來看那麼燃煤跟燃氣是比較低的但是因為有了2050年要減碳的這個目標\n\n16:08.353 --> 16:09.074\n部長我先請教一個問題我們看到下一頁\n\n16:27.892 --> 16:56.948\n我要請先請教這個部長的問題就是我們可以看到這張太陽能光電的表從民工104年當時台電跟民營電廠其實當時的發電量是差不多的可是我們可以看到從110年111年不管是民營電廠的發電量大幅的上增而且我剛剛特別跟你報告通通都是民營電廠為什麼台電不自己做光電通通要把\n\n16:59.909 --> 17:22.345\n這些光電把他交給民營電廠去做所以人民只有擔心的是是不是都交給這些綠油油的企業來做為什麼台電自己不做綠電交給民營電廠的話是希望能夠透過競爭民間的這個競爭讓我們的這個電的成本可以更低\n\n17:23.688 --> 17:43.589\n這是交給民營電廠的成本會更低我們看到下一張表這邊這個是台電公佈的資料台電的自發電力的電費跟外購電力大家可以看到一個明顯不相當的金額如果我們是台電自發的電力風力發電是4.61\n\n17:47.045 --> 18:06.391\n外購電力就是民營電廠的購電力是6.59增加了40%意思就是人民會認為這個表這麼清楚的展現出來要給民營企業就是要給他40%的利潤太陽能發電自力發電3.75給外購電力要4.85漲幅30%那我們來看燃氣現在民間沒有什麼企業會做燃氣的為什麼\n\n18:16.414 --> 18:32.183\n因為外購電力3.62可是台電自發2.96漲幅只有22%我想請問院長跟部長的這樣子大家不會趨之若鶩認為政府就是要保護綠電給它固定的利潤而且要保證採購的量嗎\n\n18:35.180 --> 18:58.419\n律電的部分還是一樣因為我們要快速的讓這個市場上要得到這麼多的律電如果說光是台電自己下去做可能會速度很慢所以我們需要民間的這個所以部長你講的沒錯因為當時過去台灣就已經自己台電就有做律電那台電從現在我們剛剛看到最前面那張表\n\n18:59.448 --> 19:21.108\n在112年到112年間喔臺電經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電完全不做全部交給民營電廠而且民營電廠就是保證用高價收購保證收購的一個態度我私下還得知你們都請這個調度單位一定要請這個調度單位一定要用綠電這樣子去做\n\n19:25.464 --> 19:40.462\n所以我常常才會跟部長跟院長講政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電用人民的血汗錢發電晚上用廢發電就是空污的問題無法解決我覺得部長院長你沒有好好解釋我沒有辦法\n\n19:42.103 --> 20:03.677\n政府沒有什麼秘密沒有說而是用公開的這個圖表來告訴國人我們在2024、25、26是我們舊電廠廚藝的高峰期那為了這個廚藝的高峰期我們必須比較快速有效率的能補充這些電廠那除了台電自己做的之外你講過我們需要效率所以用民營電廠來補充\n\n20:04.938 --> 20:07.020\n台電有沒有考慮要自己做綠電台電自己設綠電這個是方向\n\n20:24.369 --> 20:25.490\n我現在從112年到112年間10年都沒有方向\n\n20:37.637 --> 20:37.677\n除能設備\n\n21:08.030 --> 21:25.302\n現在民間很多企業都知道使用儲能設備去儲存當不是尖峰的時候去儲存一些比較低價的電可是我們看到政府12年113年114年都有使用儲能設備為什麼從114年以後就不再使用儲能設備了\n\n21:26.889 --> 21:52.844\n用除能設備才能去除在不是尖峰的時間去除一些比較便宜的電這樣不會讓人民認為說你只有在發展光電而且發展光電是不穩定的能源所以你還是每年要設很多的燃氣電廠造成台灣的空汙問題造成全台灣光電板設一大堆燃氣廠設一大堆而且全民每年都可能要漲兩次電價\n\n21:54.721 --> 21:57.222\n我們沒有錯我們同意您的說法除能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展\n\n22:22.329 --> 22:37.900\n我請問一下部長那為什麼114年以後就不發展除能設備了政府就不發展除能設備就不建置除能設備除能設備你要有那個他有使用的地方不過我們認為是這樣子因為業者他到在市場評估的時候\n\n22:48.526 --> 23:03.395\n政府願意發展每年發展固定的大量的太陽能光電可是卻不知道業者卻不知道要發展多少的儲能設備這樣子我相信人民是不能接受的所以我們建議業者要自己\n\n23:04.144 --> 23:05.045\n跟委員報告前一兩年\n\n23:21.180 --> 23:39.935\n竹能設備民間投資的意願相當高所以它有一個電力交易平台讓民間來申請結果因為這個太多的量所以它有在前年5月稍微暫停因為7月已經重新啟動我認為這個表未來是有可能增加的今天7月重新啟動\n\n23:40.856 --> 23:42.877\n臺灣人民是應該用便宜的電好的電而不是白天用綠能用人民的血汗錢納電費\n\n24:10.438 --> 24:11.719\n出能設備他一定有市場\n\n24:24.790 --> 24:27.191\n沒有這回事我們不可能這個這個電價的這個漲是由這個電價委員會在\n\n24:51.325 --> 24:53.007\n好接下來還要再請問部長跟院長一個問題針對我們臺灣未來即將面臨的太陽能板\n\n25:00.559 --> 25:21.733\n這麼多大量的太陽能板其實現在經濟部其實針對太陽能板未來的回收的這個整個基金是嚴重收取不足的那當我們有去跟這個部會去討論的時候他回答我們我問他說有一些廢棄的太陽能廠怎麼處理他說廢棄的時候很多的公司都倒閉\n\n25:22.845 --> 25:41.923\n倒閉的話查無此人可是這些的太陽能板還是屬於那些倒閉的公司產生了太陽能板這個流浪漢太陽能板孤兒這些東西這些問題未來在台灣發展綠能的過程上是一個非常嚴重的問題所以請院長跟部長針對這個問題一定要\n\n25:52.701 --> 26:06.946\n經濟部所屬的工業技術研究院已經有將太陽能板回收的技術現在也要成立這樣的公司所以您所擔心的這件事情我們相信是不會造成困擾\n\n26:08.444 --> 26:23.359\n好那院長跟部長有提示未來這個問題會慢慢的下降我們期待不然台灣會成為這個太陽能板的孤兒的廢棄島那接下來本席要跟部長跟院長請教的就是說剛剛我們講台灣發展這麼多的這個\n\n26:28.353 --> 26:40.027\n藍氣廠燃氣廠所造成的PM2.5當時我在委員會質詢的時候我特別有講我希望說臺灣很多東西不能獨樹一格尤其對臺灣的空汙指標要來調整\n\n26:44.211 --> 27:04.868\n台灣大家都知道現在新聞報導有特別指出這個肺癌的造成主要的原因第一個最嚴重的新聞報導有指出就是PN2.5就是空汙的影響所以我們看到這一張的這個這個slide的表格裡面有寫現行的PN2.5的指標它是寫15\n\n27:06.411 --> 27:31.688\n那未來修正後會變成12我看到這個資料的時候本來非常開心想說哇政府終於聽到我們的聲音了可是第一個我要跟這個院長報告的是他跟國際的標準美國的9還是有相當的差別以及這個總表當時在規劃的時候其實就有一些浮爆的情況因為像台灣有一些的污染物是在台灣不會出現的\n\n27:32.913 --> 27:45.139\n在台灣會是0的所以這個數字台灣的空汙會造成永遠都不會有空汙因為這個數這個計算公式會造成很多的數字去虛胖所以這個部分我也要請到\n\n27:46.833 --> 28:10.660\n翻到下一頁在114年第一會期的施政報告部長你的施政報告裡面針對人民最重視的空污問題在15條裡面你沒有講說要加強防治與監控改善空氣品質跟環境凝視我在看這個內容的時候第一個我懷疑這內容是照抄\n\n28:11.833 --> 28:30.114\n後來我仔細來看不是照抄,內容只是我們的數據有稍微改了一下可是讓我覺得非常痛心的是說前面左邊這個資料裡面寫說截至112年12月20日子PO2.5的平均濃度是13.8\n\n28:32.349 --> 28:48.408\n可是我們看到最新的施政報告裡面寫113年6月指這個PM2.5的濃度上升到15.1就代表臺灣剛剛可以連到剛剛前面跟大家講的創意的能源政策造成臺灣一直把這個\n\n28:50.285 --> 28:50.645\n﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚\n\n29:15.100 --> 29:38.248\n跟地方政府合作的這個空汙的檢測點完全只有一萬點完全沒有增加以及鼓勵癱瘓孤乳這些數字在113年6月底跟去年也完全沒有變動是不是代表政府對人民的空汙對人民第一名產生這個肺癌肺腺癌的問題政府是不是忽視了請可不可以院長幫我們解釋一下\n\n29:38.928 --> 29:40.070\n等下等下你這樣解釋不清楚他說平均阿\n\n29:54.951 --> 30:11.537\n明天等會辦到6月有差別?一個是到6月一個是一整年快要到12月20號所以是一整年所以一個除以6個除以12嗎?不一樣喔因為我們台灣四季的空屋是不一樣的高低不一樣的你意思是說下半年度空屋會減少所以這個數字會回到正常?\n\n30:11.857 --> 30:12.697\n所以你的目標到年底會是10沒有\n\n30:50.781 --> 30:50.802\n謝謝張智\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.312,"end":16.133,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":35.516,"end":53.93,"text":"張委員好卓院長好辛苦了這幾天今天的質詢一整天非常辛苦本席在這邊最近颱風所有我們第一線的警消還有所有救災的人員至上最深的敬意大家辛苦了院長辛苦了應該的"},{"start":55.592,"end":83.581,"text":"好那接下來要請教院長的部分就是我本身來自的選區是新北市中和也是我們韓院長的家鄉所以當我一開始上任以來我對很多的地方的大型的建設我非常的關心那也認為我們中和地方的大型建設它的時程都一般來講都拖得比較長所以我一直在關心希望很多的時程可以進速可以加速有一些不必要的這個"},{"start":84.801,"end":85.502,"text":"中和污水下水道接管"},{"start":106.58,"end":131.151,"text":"說明一下他是從民國9393年就已經開始做這個中和污水下水道的接管那現在已經這個將近30年了那中國還有大概10萬的人南四角的人沒有接管所以在這個111年3月的時候由國土府核定12.87億的中和污水下水道接管"},{"start":132.892,"end":133.352,"text":"所以這邊我跟這個院長要請託的就是說"},{"start":158.21,"end":185.418,"text":"現在總共的總經費大概是12.87億那第一階段只核准的是大概3億多3億多的部分那總共可以讓3萬多戶來接管就是10萬人所以當時我在拜託這個陳院長的時候當時在我還記得在113年4月份的時候那時候是可行性評估報告那可行性整個就通過了"},{"start":186.818,"end":187.319,"text":"請問院長這樣可以嗎?"},{"start":210.745,"end":230.66,"text":"好的謝謝委員 污水下水道象徵一個都市真的是個翻身的機會讓他更乾淨那是不是內政部將來也是要跟地方政府再多做的協調預算這方面我們透過程序來編列那執行的工作還是要拜託地方政府那過程怎麼樣請部長來說明"},{"start":231.741,"end":252.231,"text":"報告委員我想你都知道現在國土署的分署正在審查當中那我們如果分署審查完了又需要發包我們一定按照原來的採購的發包程序在辦理然後你有提到說那個預算是不是不夠我想不會因為一個整體計劃如果通過之後他就分一二三四期慢慢來往前推進我們會跟新北市政府一起來努力"},{"start":253.096,"end":253.597,"text":"謝謝部長跟院長"},{"start":283.256,"end":312.171,"text":"我們一起來爭取當時其實過去綜合交流道在尖峰的時期它每個小時的這個車流量高達4000部所以過去都會一直塞車那我們在上個會期的時候我們一起來努力現在很多鄉親從南部就是往北在綜合往綜合的方向因為當時已經爭取了3000萬的經費把這個路肩給取消把路肩給重新來鋪設所以現在如果很多綜合的鄉親從中南部回來"},{"start":314.073,"end":325.528,"text":"會發現出口變雙車道增加一倍的車流量所以已經不是這麼塞車了可是過去一直以來還有一個問題就是說不管是北向跟南向"},{"start":326.497,"end":346.548,"text":"都會遇到一個問題就是說有些車子要往中和交流道往中和的方向去走那一定有些車子要往板橋往64的方向跑結果會造成道路交織的問題所以高空局就規劃了14.9億需要偵測閘道把閘道的這些標示往前拉"},{"start":347.428,"end":369.73,"text":"未來讓民眾可以提早做這個分流的狀況那希望未來可以慢慢的一步一步降低這個塞車的問題可是現在當時這個計畫我再重新報告一次當時在陳建仁院長的時候是可行性評估報告有通過那現在的部分因為這個整個計畫要7年所以我們可以看到下一個表現在還在113年的這個部分"},{"start":371.992,"end":372.373,"text":"行政院院長"},{"start":390.171,"end":416.316,"text":"之前是需要說113年的年底就可以核准那他當然還有抓了幾個月的這個緩衝期那我希望說現在已經送到國發會了那也希望說行政院這邊可以來協助看是不是在113年的年底就順利來核准因為整個工期其實要當打7年的時間那我剛剛也跟部長跟院長報告過了這個交通塞車的問題一定要快速來解決所以是不是這邊可以拜託院長"},{"start":417.136,"end":418.698,"text":"目前的整個程序到現在的生意"},{"start":432.686,"end":433.727,"text":"10月1日發文各部會回覆意見"},{"start":462.614,"end":492.055,"text":"好 謝謝那就拜託我們各部會的首長大家一起來努力希望在年底之前我們盡快把它給核定好不好是的好 謝謝好 那接下來我要請教的是剛剛討論的是一開始綜合污水下水到10萬人然後再來是我們的國道交流道改善每個小時高達這個4000車次的問題要解決結果現在發現一個另外一個問題要拜託院長來協助就是我們綜合有一個綜合分局"},{"start":493.485,"end":518.127,"text":"他現在遇到的問題第一個是他的這個年限已老就是已經用了很長的一個時間而且過去有這個兩地駐地辦公的一個問題就是綜合分局他的駐地在一般的警察事務那另外在另外一個地方有這個偵查隊在執勤兩邊執勤造成了很多的一些行政資源上的浪費跟辦公處所一個浪費"},{"start":522.791,"end":542.207,"text":"中和因為我們有一些企業他在做一些都市計畫改變了以後其實他有捐贈一筆這個用地給我們的中和分局所以用地問題解決了可是營造的費用將未來會蓋地上7層地下4層的建築物營造費用有9億"},{"start":543.955,"end":564.748,"text":"這個部分其實新北市政府地方在籌措資源上有相當的困難所以是不是這邊請院長針對我們綜合分局他是要服務40萬人民的一個這個警察分局他的這個新建金費用地有了可是新建金費不足的問題是不是可以拜託院長來幫忙"},{"start":566.271,"end":566.791,"text":"市政府先用技術服務費768萬"},{"start":586.468,"end":587.289,"text":"新北市政府"},{"start":604.459,"end":605.08,"text":"針對現在的警察局"},{"start":628.223,"end":628.243,"text":"會來協助嗎"},{"start":642.146,"end":659.845,"text":"那是我們警察同仁所需要的聽測所以這邊我也希望院長跟部長其實各地全台灣各縣市都有這些公有聽測老舊的問題尤其警消的聽測老舊所以是不是說過去我知道說內政部很辛苦"},{"start":660.345,"end":684.922,"text":"都會有請各縣市來盤點有需要維修的部分做些維修的經費可是我這邊也比較大膽的希望院長跟部長可以主動來去盤點去追蹤去編列經費針對全台灣這個錦囂廳舍老舊的部分主動編列經費主動來修繕或是甚至有些真的是有些耐震的問題也必須如果要拆除的"},{"start":685.242,"end":685.262,"text":"應該編列經費"},{"start":710.772,"end":720.879,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝院長接下來我要問的問題就比較尖銳一點我要請教的就是說大家都知道最近這個電費又要漲了其實"},{"start":727.424,"end":754.227,"text":"國民黨黨團的立場一向都很直接就是希望電價要動漲不管是這個企業或者是民間的尤其是民間的一定要動漲可是我們看到從民進黨執政這幾年來尤其蔡英文政府跟賴清德政府普遍這個調漲這個電費已經高達40%我們現在所知道的台電現在是這個負毛利率這個"},{"start":755.908,"end":779.485,"text":"負債比高達90%現在累積虧損高達4000多億那不高函過去政府已經補貼他的3000億所以這邊我要請教院長就是說我這邊拿到一份資料這個資料是應該是國發會做的吧這個112年到122年間10年的這個電力規劃情形"},{"start":783.13,"end":804.155,"text":"這10年電力規劃情形不看不知道一看真的是要嚇一跳我們來看一下這個電力規劃情形從112年民進黨政府決定這個核能核二除役然後把一些這個燃煤也除以後結果他未來做的是什麼"},{"start":806.159,"end":831.626,"text":"我們來看一下先從這個表圖的上面來看2023年2024年2025年民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能給除役然後把一些燃煤燃煤跟燃氣的把它救市的把它除役可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是在100在112年的時候2023年的時候因為當時政府就只發揮只做"},{"start":832.945,"end":860.052,"text":"綠電所以當時在113年的時候全臺灣可以看到這個最下面這個夜間的尖峰的這個被轉容量只到8.1所以要跟院長跟部長講的是你沒有跟人民講的是在民進黨的能源政策底下出入的能源政策底下未來臺灣就是第一個用的是新建的燃氣白天"},{"start":861.172,"end":876.567,"text":"的時侯是要用綠能用高額的電費來支付電費所以這邊要先請教部長的部分還有院長的部分你們可以看到112年的時候以這個圖表來看"},{"start":878.669,"end":907.956,"text":"新增的就是太陽能光電所以造成113年的缺電然後我們113年的時候大量的開啟新的這個燃氣場以及太陽能光電所以第一個我要請教這個院長跟部長的我們可以看到這張表綠色的就是燃氣藍色的就是光電那光電這邊有個特別的內容就是"},{"start":909.588,"end":936.657,"text":"沒有前面沒有任何的地點意思就是民營電廠所以要跟院長跟部長請教第一個點就是我相信民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是說白天未來台灣的能源戰就是白天用人民的血汗錢發電就是用高額的綠能來發電晚上因為綠能沒有辦法發電所以晚上就是用廢發電就是不夠的電力用燃煤來補"},{"start":938.654,"end":966.837,"text":"請教院長跟部長這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎報告委員我想這個用燃氣來取代燃煤這是一個世界的方向那麼在這個還沒有說這個2050年要進行減碳的時候那麼是在發電的成本來看那麼燃煤跟燃氣是比較低的但是因為有了2050年要減碳的這個目標"},{"start":968.353,"end":969.074,"text":"部長我先請教一個問題我們看到下一頁"},{"start":987.892,"end":1016.948,"text":"我要請先請教這個部長的問題就是我們可以看到這張太陽能光電的表從民工104年當時台電跟民營電廠其實當時的發電量是差不多的可是我們可以看到從110年111年不管是民營電廠的發電量大幅的上增而且我剛剛特別跟你報告通通都是民營電廠為什麼台電不自己做光電通通要把"},{"start":1019.909,"end":1042.345,"text":"這些光電把他交給民營電廠去做所以人民只有擔心的是是不是都交給這些綠油油的企業來做為什麼台電自己不做綠電交給民營電廠的話是希望能夠透過競爭民間的這個競爭讓我們的這個電的成本可以更低"},{"start":1043.688,"end":1063.589,"text":"這是交給民營電廠的成本會更低我們看到下一張表這邊這個是台電公佈的資料台電的自發電力的電費跟外購電力大家可以看到一個明顯不相當的金額如果我們是台電自發的電力風力發電是4.61"},{"start":1067.045,"end":1086.391,"text":"外購電力就是民營電廠的購電力是6.59增加了40%意思就是人民會認為這個表這麼清楚的展現出來要給民營企業就是要給他40%的利潤太陽能發電自力發電3.75給外購電力要4.85漲幅30%那我們來看燃氣現在民間沒有什麼企業會做燃氣的為什麼"},{"start":1096.414,"end":1112.183,"text":"因為外購電力3.62可是台電自發2.96漲幅只有22%我想請問院長跟部長的這樣子大家不會趨之若鶩認為政府就是要保護綠電給它固定的利潤而且要保證採購的量嗎"},{"start":1115.18,"end":1138.419,"text":"律電的部分還是一樣因為我們要快速的讓這個市場上要得到這麼多的律電如果說光是台電自己下去做可能會速度很慢所以我們需要民間的這個所以部長你講的沒錯因為當時過去台灣就已經自己台電就有做律電那台電從現在我們剛剛看到最前面那張表"},{"start":1139.448,"end":1161.108,"text":"在112年到112年間喔臺電經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電完全不做全部交給民營電廠而且民營電廠就是保證用高價收購保證收購的一個態度我私下還得知你們都請這個調度單位一定要請這個調度單位一定要用綠電這樣子去做"},{"start":1165.464,"end":1180.462,"text":"所以我常常才會跟部長跟院長講政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電用人民的血汗錢發電晚上用廢發電就是空污的問題無法解決我覺得部長院長你沒有好好解釋我沒有辦法"},{"start":1182.103,"end":1203.677,"text":"政府沒有什麼秘密沒有說而是用公開的這個圖表來告訴國人我們在2024、25、26是我們舊電廠廚藝的高峰期那為了這個廚藝的高峰期我們必須比較快速有效率的能補充這些電廠那除了台電自己做的之外你講過我們需要效率所以用民營電廠來補充"},{"start":1204.938,"end":1207.02,"text":"台電有沒有考慮要自己做綠電台電自己設綠電這個是方向"},{"start":1224.369,"end":1225.49,"text":"我現在從112年到112年間10年都沒有方向"},{"start":1237.637,"end":1237.677,"text":"除能設備"},{"start":1268.03,"end":1285.302,"text":"現在民間很多企業都知道使用儲能設備去儲存當不是尖峰的時候去儲存一些比較低價的電可是我們看到政府12年113年114年都有使用儲能設備為什麼從114年以後就不再使用儲能設備了"},{"start":1286.889,"end":1312.844,"text":"用除能設備才能去除在不是尖峰的時間去除一些比較便宜的電這樣不會讓人民認為說你只有在發展光電而且發展光電是不穩定的能源所以你還是每年要設很多的燃氣電廠造成台灣的空汙問題造成全台灣光電板設一大堆燃氣廠設一大堆而且全民每年都可能要漲兩次電價"},{"start":1314.721,"end":1317.222,"text":"我們沒有錯我們同意您的說法除能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展"},{"start":1342.329,"end":1357.9,"text":"我請問一下部長那為什麼114年以後就不發展除能設備了政府就不發展除能設備就不建置除能設備除能設備你要有那個他有使用的地方不過我們認為是這樣子因為業者他到在市場評估的時候"},{"start":1368.526,"end":1383.395,"text":"政府願意發展每年發展固定的大量的太陽能光電可是卻不知道業者卻不知道要發展多少的儲能設備這樣子我相信人民是不能接受的所以我們建議業者要自己"},{"start":1384.144,"end":1385.045,"text":"跟委員報告前一兩年"},{"start":1401.18,"end":1419.935,"text":"竹能設備民間投資的意願相當高所以它有一個電力交易平台讓民間來申請結果因為這個太多的量所以它有在前年5月稍微暫停因為7月已經重新啟動我認為這個表未來是有可能增加的今天7月重新啟動"},{"start":1420.856,"end":1422.877,"text":"臺灣人民是應該用便宜的電好的電而不是白天用綠能用人民的血汗錢納電費"},{"start":1450.438,"end":1451.719,"text":"出能設備他一定有市場"},{"start":1464.79,"end":1467.191,"text":"沒有這回事我們不可能這個這個電價的這個漲是由這個電價委員會在"},{"start":1491.325,"end":1493.007,"text":"好 接下來還要再請問部長跟院長一個問題針對我們臺灣未來即將面臨的太陽能板"},{"start":1500.559,"end":1521.733,"text":"這麼多大量的太陽能板其實現在經濟部其實針對太陽能板未來的回收的這個整個基金是嚴重收取不足的那當我們有去跟這個部會去討論的時候他回答我們我問他說有一些廢棄的太陽能廠怎麼處理他說廢棄的時候很多的公司都倒閉"},{"start":1522.845,"end":1541.923,"text":"倒閉的話查無此人可是這些的太陽能板還是屬於那些倒閉的公司產生了太陽能板這個流浪漢太陽能板孤兒這些東西這些問題未來在台灣發展綠能的過程上是一個非常嚴重的問題所以請院長跟部長針對這個問題一定要"},{"start":1552.701,"end":1566.946,"text":"經濟部所屬的工業技術研究院已經有將太陽能板回收的技術現在也要成立這樣的公司所以您所擔心的這件事情我們相信是不會造成困擾"},{"start":1568.444,"end":1583.359,"text":"好那院長跟部長有提示未來這個問題會慢慢的下降我們期待不然台灣會成為這個太陽能板的孤兒的廢棄島那接下來本席要跟部長跟院長請教的就是說剛剛我們講台灣發展這麼多的這個"},{"start":1588.353,"end":1600.027,"text":"藍氣廠燃氣廠所造成的PM2.5當時我在委員會質詢的時候我特別有講我希望說臺灣很多東西不能獨樹一格尤其對臺灣的空汙指標要來調整"},{"start":1604.211,"end":1624.868,"text":"台灣大家都知道現在新聞報導有特別指出這個肺癌的造成主要的原因第一個最嚴重的新聞報導有指出就是PN2.5就是空汙的影響所以我們看到這一張的這個這個slide的表格裡面有寫現行的PN2.5的指標它是寫15"},{"start":1626.411,"end":1651.688,"text":"那未來修正後會變成12我看到這個資料的時候本來非常開心想說哇政府終於聽到我們的聲音了可是第一個我要跟這個院長報告的是他跟國際的標準美國的9還是有相當的差別以及這個總表當時在規劃的時候其實就有一些浮爆的情況因為像台灣有一些的污染物是在台灣不會出現的"},{"start":1652.913,"end":1665.139,"text":"在台灣會是0的所以這個數字台灣的空汙會造成永遠都不會有空汙因為這個數這個計算公式會造成很多的數字去虛胖所以這個部分我也要請到"},{"start":1666.833,"end":1690.66,"text":"翻到下一頁在114年第一會期的施政報告部長你的施政報告裡面針對人民最重視的空污問題在15條裡面你沒有講說要加強防治與監控改善空氣品質跟環境凝視我在看這個內容的時候第一個我懷疑這內容是照抄"},{"start":1691.833,"end":1710.114,"text":"後來我仔細來看不是照抄,內容只是我們的數據有稍微改了一下可是讓我覺得非常痛心的是說前面左邊這個資料裡面寫說截至112年12月20日子PO2.5的平均濃度是13.8"},{"start":1712.349,"end":1728.408,"text":"可是我們看到最新的施政報告裡面寫113年6月指這個PM2.5的濃度上升到15.1就代表臺灣剛剛可以連到剛剛前面跟大家講的創意的能源政策造成臺灣一直把這個"},{"start":1730.285,"end":1730.645,"text":"﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚張智倫﹚"},{"start":1755.1,"end":1778.248,"text":"跟地方政府合作的這個 空汙的檢測點完全只有一萬點 完全沒有增加以及鼓勵癱瘓 孤乳這些數字在113年6月底跟去年也完全沒有變動是不是代表政府對人民的空汙對人民第一名產生這個肺癌 肺腺癌的問題政府是不是忽視了 請可不可以院長幫我們解釋一下"},{"start":1778.928,"end":1780.07,"text":"等下等下你這樣解釋不清楚他說平均阿"},{"start":1794.951,"end":1811.537,"text":"明天等會辦到6月有差別?一個是到6月一個是一整年快要到12月20號所以是一整年所以一個除以6個除以12嗎?不一樣喔因為我們台灣四季的空屋是不一樣的高低不一樣的你意思是說下半年度空屋會減少所以這個數字會回到正常?"},{"start":1811.857,"end":1812.697,"text":"所以你的目標到年底會是10沒有"},{"start":1850.781,"end":1850.802,"text":"謝謝張智"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-3","title":"第11屆第2會期第3次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-04T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"17:32:37 - 18:03:29","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第3次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","id":155068,"gazette":{"lineno":622,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（17時32分）謝謝院長，各位委員、各位官員，大家午安，我們是不是有請卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：張委員好。"],["張委員智倫：卓院長好，辛苦了這幾天，今天的質詢一整天非常的辛苦。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["張委員智倫：本席也在這邊對最近颱風所有我們第一線的警消，還有所有救災的人員，致上最深的敬意，大家辛苦了、院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，應該的。"],["張委員智倫：接下來要請教院長的部分，就是我本身來自新北市中和選區，也是我們韓院長的家鄉，所以當我一開始上任以來，我對很多地方大型建設非常的關心，也認為我們中和地方大型建設的時程一般來講都拖得比較長，所以我一直在關心，希望很多的時程可以儘速、加速，有一些不必要的文書來往可以減少。","第一個要跟院長請教，在上個會期陳建仁院長的時候，當時我就有跟他報告一件事情，就是中和的污水下水道的接管。跟卓院長說明一下，從民國93年就已經開始做中和污水下水道的接管，現在已經將近30年了，中和還有大概10萬的人、南勢角的人沒有接管，所以在111年3月的時候，由國土署核定12.87億的中和污水下水道接管經費，拖了兩年，直到今年113年8月7號，目前來講，行政院已經通過細部設計，現在中和的污水道接管都不是由中央來處理，都是由新北市政府來做發包跟執行，不過細部計畫還是要由行政院核准。這邊我要跟院長請託的是，現在總經費大概是12.87億，第一階段只核准大概三億多，總共可以讓三萬多戶接管，也就是10萬人；當時我在拜託陳院長的時候，我還記得是在113年4月份，那時候是可行性評估報告，而可行性評估報告通過了，未來也希望污水下水道部分可以拜託院長協助，是不是中央跟地方在一些細部計畫檢討的部分可以加速？","我剛剛有跟院長報告，這要9年的時間，希望院長可以支持，可以讓9年的時間儘量縮短，請問院長這樣可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員。污水下水道象徵一個都市翻身的機會，讓它更乾淨，是不是內政部將來也要跟地方政府再多做協調，預算這方面我們會透過程序來編列，執行的工作還是要拜託地方政府，至於過程怎麼樣，請部長來說明。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想你都知道，現在國土署的分署正在審查當中，如果分署審查完了以後需要發包，我們會按照原來的採購發包程序辦理。然後您有提到預算是不是不夠？我想不會，因為一個整體計畫通過之後，就分一、二、三、四期慢慢往前推進，我們會跟新北市政府一起來努力。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長跟院長。","第二個，我要請託院長的就是中和未來比較大型的交通問題。中和有一個國道3號，現在是中和唯一可以往外到別縣市的一個非常重要的高速公路。在今年，也是當時的交通部長和我們一起爭取的，其實過去中和交流道在尖峰時期，每一個小時的車流量高達4,000部，所以過去都會一直塞車，我們在上個會期的時候一起努力，現在很多鄉親從南部往北、往中和的方向，因為當時已經爭取了3,000萬的經費，把路肩取消、重新鋪設，所以現在很多中和鄉親從中南部回來會發現出口變雙車道，增加一倍的車流量，所以已經不是這麼塞車了。","可是過去一直以來還有一個問題，不管是北上跟南下都會遇到的問題，有些車子要下中和交流道往中和的方向走，另外有一些車子要往板橋、往64的方向跑，結果會造成道路交織的問題，所以高公局規劃了14.9億，希望增設匝道，把匝道的標示往前拉，未來讓民眾可以提早做分流，希望未來可以慢慢、一步一步降低塞車的問題。我再重新報告一次當時的計畫，當時在陳建仁院長的時候是可行性評估報告通過，因為這整個計畫要7年，現在還在113年，這個計畫已經從交通局送到交通部，交通部送到國發會，國發會現在正在審查當中，未來還要請行政院核准。現在這邊有一個表，在項次1部分，之前說113年的年底就可以核准，當然還有抓了幾個月的緩衝期，現在已經送到國發會了，我希望行政院可以協助，看是不是在113年的年底就順利核准，因為整個工期高達7年的時間，剛剛也跟部長和院長報告過了，交通塞車的問題一定要快速解決，是不是可以拜託院長，如果可行性評估報告……之前陳院長大概1個月的時間就OK了，那院長是不是也可以從善如流，儘快核定？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長先說明一下目前的程序到現在的審議。"],["張委員智倫：好，請部長說明。"],["陳部長世凱：目前高公局會接續辦理綜規的部分，至於在國發會的部分，應該國發會的速度也會很快，現在交通方面的建設，我們都很清楚，大家、民眾都非常的急，尤其是中和塞車的問題，所有的人開車經過那裡都會感受得到，所以這個部分當然我們會加速進行。"],["張委員智倫：好，那國發會呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：請劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，我們是9月27號收到函，10月1號已發文各部會，我們正在等各部會回復意見。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝，就拜託各部會首長，大家一起努力，希望在年底之前儘快核定，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。接下來我要請教的是，剛剛一開始討論的是中和污水下道的10萬人；再來是我們國道交流道的改善，每個小時高達4,000車次的問題要解決；現在發現另外一個問題要拜託院長來協助，就是我們中和有一個中和分局，現在遇到的問題是，第一個，它的年限已老，就是已經用了很長的時間，而且過去有兩地駐地辦公的問題，就是中和分局它的駐地是一般的警察事務；而在另外一個地方有偵查隊在執勤，兩邊執勤造成很多行政資源的浪費跟辦公處所的浪費，當然還有一個空間不足的問題，因為一些企業在做一些都市計畫改變以後，其實他們有捐贈一筆用地給我們中和分局，所以用地問題解決了，可是營造費用的部分，未來會蓋地上7層、地下4層的建築物，營造費用有9億，這個部分其實新北市政府、地方在籌措資源上有相當的困難，所以是不是請院長針對中和分局的部分，它是一個要服務40萬人民的警察分局，現在用地有了，可是興建經費不足的問題，是不是可以拜託院長來幫忙？"],["卓院長榮泰：請劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：我來回應一下。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員都非常清楚也很努力，就是現在的中和分局因為它的耐震沒有達到拆除重建的標準，所以並不符合前瞻計畫裡面的拆除重建，但因為新北市政府已經先用技術服務費768萬來做所謂的技術服務，113年會啟動採購的程序，您所說的地下4層或地上7層，可能是現在新北市政府在進行技術服務時所完成的部分；我們現在就是先請新北市政府瞭解他們現在有沒有要跟戶政事務所一起共用，如果一起共用會比較複雜，但如果沒有一起共用，完全是我們消防署或是警政署使用的話，我們希望工程規劃設計完成之後，會按照分年所需要的經費，請新北市政府向中央來申請，因為中央有一個補助的部分，就是針對現在的警察局或者是其他的警察署所需要的部分，會按照它的輕重緩急程度逐年編列。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長的說明，所以部長的意思是會來協助嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是啊！協助當然是一定的，那是我們警察同仁所需要的廳舍。"],["張委員智倫：OK。所以我也希望院長跟部長知道，其實全臺各縣市都有公有廳舍老舊的問題，尤其是警消廳舍老舊的問題，過去我知道內政部很辛苦，都會請各縣市盤點有需要維修的部分，然後提供一些維修的經費，可是我這邊也比較大膽的希望院長跟部長可以主動去盤點、去追蹤、去編列經費，針對全臺灣警消廳舍老舊的部分，主動編列經費、主動來修繕，甚至有些真的是有耐震問題的，必須要拆除的，也是要編列經費。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，其實本來就有了，只是說它要滾動式調整，所以行政院都非常支持，在滾動式調整之後，如果知道它是老舊廳舍，就會按照老舊廳舍的需求，一年、一年都會一直補助下去，全臺灣都是這樣子，所有各縣市地方政府的警察局長都知道，他們也都在爭取，所以我們每一年都會有厚厚的一本來跟行政院爭取這個經費。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長、謝謝院長。","接下來我要問的問題就比較尖銳一點了，我要請教的是，大家都知道，最近電費又要漲了，其實國民黨黨團的立場一向都很直接，就是希望電價要凍漲，不管是企業或民間，尤其民間部分一定要凍漲。可是我們看到民進黨執政這幾年來，蔡英文政府跟賴清德政府已經普遍調漲電費高達40%。我們知道台電現在是負毛利率，負債比達90%，累積虧損高達四千多億，尚不包含過去政府已經補貼的3,000億。在這邊我要請教院長，我拿到一份資料，這資料應該是國發會做的，為112年到122年十年間的電力規劃情形。這十年電力規劃情形不看不知道，一看真的要嚇一跳，我們來看一下電力規劃情形。","112年民進黨政府決定核二及一些燃煤機組除役，至於未來要做什麼？我們來看一下，先從表圖的上面來看。2023年、2024年、2025年，民進黨政府的決議就是要把核能除役，然後把一些燃煤、燃氣的舊式機組也除役，可是民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是，在112年（2023年）時，因為當時政府只做綠電，所以在113年時，全臺灣夜間尖峰的備轉容量只到8.1%！所以我要跟院長及部長講的是，你們沒有跟人民講，在民進黨的能源政策底下，未來臺灣第一個用的就是新建的燃氣，白天用的是綠能，要用高額的電費來支付。在這邊我要先請教部長及院長，以這個圖表來看，你們可以看到112年新增的就是太陽能光電，以致造成113年缺電。然後113年大量開啟新的燃氣廠以及太陽能光電，所以第一個我要請院長跟部長看這張表，綠色的就是燃氣，藍色的就是光電，光電這邊有個特別的內容，也就是前面沒有提到任何的地點，意思就是民營電廠。請教院長跟部長，第一，我相信民進黨政府沒有跟人民講的是：未來臺灣的能源政策，白天用人民的血汗錢發電，即用高額綠能發電；晚上因為綠能沒有辦法發電，所以晚上就是用肺發電，也就是不夠的電力用燃煤來補。請教院長跟部長，這就是民進黨未來的能源政策嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想用燃氣取代燃煤是世界的方向，在沒有提到2050年淨零減碳時，燃煤跟燃氣的發電成本是比較低的。但因為有了2050年減碳的目標，再加上歐盟要用綠電的規範，所以大部分做出口的產業就要使用綠電，綠電是為了讓臺灣的產業能做出口……"],["張委員智倫：部長，我先請教一個問題，我們看下一頁。我要請教部長的問題就是，我們可以看到這張太陽能光電表，在民國104年時，台電跟民營電廠的發電量是差不多的。可是我們看到從110年、111年開始，民營電廠的發電量大幅上升！我剛剛特別跟你報告，通通都是民營電廠在做，為什麼台電不自己做光電？把光電通通交給民營電廠去做？人民所擔心的是，是不是都交給「綠友友」企業來做？為什麼台電自己不做綠電？"],["郭部長智輝：交給民營電廠的話，是希望能夠透過競爭，透過民間的競爭，讓我們電的成本可以更低，這是交給民營電廠……"],["張委員智倫：好，交給民營電廠成本會更低，我們看到下一張表，這是台電公布的資料，台電自發電力跟外購電力的價格，大家可以看到明顯不相當的金額，如果是台電自發的電力，風力發電是4.61，外購電力，也就是從民營電廠的購電費是6.59，增加了40%，意思就是人民會認為，這個表非常清楚的展現出來，要給民營企業40%的利潤；太陽能發電的部分，自發電力是3.75，外購電力要4.85，漲幅30%；我們來看燃氣，現在民間沒有什麼企業要做燃氣，為什麼？因為外購電力3.62，但台電自發2.96，漲幅只有22%。我想請問院長跟部長，這樣大家不會趨之若鶩，認為政府就是要保護綠電，給它固定的利潤，而且要保證採購的量嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：綠電的部分還是一樣，因為我們要快速的讓市場上得到這麼多的綠電，如果光是台電自己下去做，可能會速度很慢，所以我們需要民間這部分的提供……"],["張委員智倫：部長，你講得沒錯，因為過去臺灣台電自己就有做綠電，我們從剛剛看到最前面那張表，112年到122年間，台電、經濟部是完全放棄自己做綠電，完全不做，全部交給民營電廠，而且對民營電廠就是用高價收購、保證收購的態度。我私下還得知，你們都請調度單位一定要用綠電，這樣子去做，所以我剛剛才會跟部長、院長講，政府沒有說的秘密就是白天用綠電、用人民的血汗錢發電，晚上用肺發電，空污的問題無法解決，我覺得部長、院長你們要好好解釋，我沒有辦法、聽不懂你們在解釋什麼。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，政府沒有什麼秘密沒有說，而是用公開的圖表來告訴國人，2024、2025、2026是我們舊電廠除役的高峰期，為了這個除役高峰期，我們必須比較快速、有效率地補充這些電廠，除了台電自己做的之外，你講過，我們需要效率，所以用民營電廠來補充，……"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝、謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是除役高峰期所必須要做的。"],["郭部長智輝：這個部分我想我必須要跟委員說明一下……"],["張委員智倫：我先簡單問一下，因為時間的關係……"],["郭部長智輝：光電能夠發電……"],["張委員智倫：我問一下部長跟院長，台電有沒有考慮要自己做綠電？"],["郭部長智輝：台電自己設綠電？"],["張委員智倫：對。"],["郭部長智輝：這個是方向，我們當然是可以……"],["張委員智倫：我現在看到從112年到122年間，10年都沒有方向！"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在是這樣，如果台電自己去做的話，我們透過採購法各方面的規範，可能速度會比較慢，如果透過民間的話，速度很快。"],["張委員智倫：部長，我再跟你講，很多你們用來做綠電跟光電的地都是國產署的地，你們就是把它發包給民間業者，其實政府就可以自己來做了。","接下來我要請問，從剛剛112年到122年間這張圖表，我們可以看到底下還有一個小玄機，有沒有看到粉紅色的那個部分，叫做儲能設備，現在民間很多企業都知道使用儲能設備，在不是尖峰的時候去儲存一些比較低價的電。可是我們看到政府112年、113年、114年都有使用儲能設備，為什麼從114年以後就不再使用儲能設備了？用儲能設備才能在不是尖峰的時間去儲存一些比較便宜的電，這樣不會讓人民認為你只有發展光電，而且發展光電是不穩定的能源，所以你還是每年要設很多燃氣電廠，造成臺灣的空污問題，造成全臺灣光電板設一大堆、燃氣廠設一大堆，而且全民每年都可能要漲二次電價！"],["郭部長智輝：委員報告，我想儲能設備是這個樣子，您剛剛所說的是正確的，就是光電事實上需要儲能設備在晚上時提供……"],["張委員智倫：不僅是光電，一般便宜的時候，當備轉容量不夠高的時候，其實燃煤、燃氣都可以拿來儲能啊！"],["郭部長智輝：沒有錯，我們同意您的說法，儲能設備事實上現在我們也都讓業者繼續在發展，未來呢……"],["張委員智倫：我請問一下部長，為什麼114年以後就不發展儲能設備了？政府就不發展儲能設備、就不建置儲能設備？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，儲能設備要有使用的地方，不過我們認為是這樣子，業者在做市場評估的時候並沒有很精準的知道這個市場到底需要多少儲能設備，所以他們會比較快，跑得比較快……"],["張委員智倫：我跟部長講，政府願意每年發展固定的、大量的太陽能光電，可是業者卻不知道要發展多少儲能設備，我相信這樣人民是不能接受的！"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們建議業者要自己……因為你要投入一個市場，但如果沒有去做市場評估就貿然進來的話，我想我們政府不需要那麼多的儲能……"],["張委員智倫：所以部長，這是錯誤的能源政策還是這些業者不懂得如何瞭解臺灣未來電力的走向？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，前一、二年，對於儲能設備，民間投資的意願相當高，所以有一個電力交易平台讓民間來申請，結果因為太多的量，所以在前年5月稍微暫停……"],["張委員智倫：院長，量上面都有啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：今年7月已經重新啟動，我認為這個表未來是有可能增加的，今年7月重新啟動了……"],["張委員智倫：所以您的意思是說，儲能設備您同意重新啟動，在115年的時候台電要增加儲能設備嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個電力交易平台，關於儲能的部分，在今年7月已經導入新的需求、新的機制，重新啟動了，我們也歡迎民間共同來參與。"],["張委員智倫：好，這個未來我會繼續追蹤，我希望臺灣人民應該用便宜的電、用好的電，而不是白天用綠能、用人民的血汗錢繳納電費……"],["卓院長榮泰：它是把產生的電留下來供作沒有電力的時候來使用、沒有發電的時候來使用，這個是正確的邏輯。"],["郭部長智輝：我們會在未來，因為AI電力大量增加，所以儲能設備一定有市場，不會像您剛剛所說的，它可能……"],["張委員智倫：沒有，這個是國發會提供的10年變化估計表，所以拜託，這會讓人民覺得全臺灣就是綠電綠友友，台電跌倒、綠電賺飽、全民漲電價，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有這回事，我們不可能，電價的調漲是由電價委員會在……"],["張委員智倫：接下來我還要再請問部長跟院長一個問題，針對臺灣未來即將面臨的太陽能板，這麼大量的太陽能板，現在經濟部針對太陽能板未來回收的整個基金是嚴重收取不足的，當我們去跟部會討論的時候，我問到有些廢棄的太陽能廠怎麼處理，他們說廢棄的很多公司都倒閉了，倒閉的話就查無此人，可是這些太陽能板還是屬於那些倒閉的公司，產生了太陽能板流浪漢、太陽能板孤兒，這些東西、這些問題未來在臺灣發展綠能的過程上是個非常嚴重問題，是不是請院長跟部長針對這問題一定要來解釋，一定要讓這個費用給收齊？"],["郭部長智輝：這個問題我跟委員報告，我們經濟部所屬的工業技術研究院已經有將太陽能板回收的技術，現在也要成立這樣的公司，所以您所擔心的這件事情，我們相信是不會造成困擾的。"],["張委員智倫：好，院長跟部長有提示，未來這個問題會慢慢下降，我們期待，不然臺灣會成為太陽能板孤兒的廢棄島。","接下來本席要跟部長、院長請教的就是，剛剛我們講臺灣發展這麼多的燃氣廠，燃氣廠所造成的PM2.5，當時我在委員會質詢的時候特別有提到，我希望臺灣很多東西不能獨樹一格，尤其對臺灣的空污指標要來調整。臺灣大家都知道現在造成肺癌的主要原因，第一個最嚴重的，新聞報導有指出的就是PM2.5，就是空污的影響，所以我們看到這張slide的表格有寫，現行PM2.5的指標是寫15，未來修正後會變成12，我看到這個資料的時候本來非常開心，想說政府終於聽到我們的聲音了，可是第一個我要跟院長報告的是，它跟國際的標準，跟美國的9還是有相當的差別，以及這個總表當時在規劃的時候其實就有一些浮報的情況，因為有一些污染物是在臺灣不會出現的，在臺灣會是0的，所以這樣的數字會造成臺灣似乎永遠都不會有空污，因為這個計算公式會造成很多的數字是虛胖的。","關於這部分，在114年第1會期環境部的施政報告，部長，你的施政報告當中第十五點，針對人民最重視的空污問題有講到要「加強防制與監控，改善空氣品質及環境寧適」。我在看這個內容的時候，第一個，我懷疑這個內容是照抄，後來我仔細來看不是照抄，只是內容的數據有稍微改了一下。可是讓我覺得非常痛心的是，左邊的資料中寫「截至112年12月20日止，PM2.5的平均濃度是13.8」，可是我們看到最新的施政報告裡面寫「截至113年6月止，PM2.5的濃度上升到15.1」就代表可以連結到剛剛前面跟大家講的，錯誤的能源政策造成臺灣一直把核能給取消，一直大量的使用天然氣發電，臺灣的PM2.5其實是上升的，而且就像我剛剛報告過的，白天的時候我們用綠能，晚上火力全開，所以這個濃度上升，本席非常不能接受。而且我們再接下來看，到113年6月止，跟地方政府合作完成的空污的檢測點只有1萬點，跟112年12月施政報告的數字相比完全沒有增加；以及鼓勵汰換鍋爐這些數字，在113年6月底跟去年相比也完全沒有變動，是不是代表政府對人民受到的空污，對人民第一名產生肺癌、肺腺癌的問題，政府是不是忽視了，能不能請院長幫我們解釋一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實你講的兩個數據，一個是一整年，一個是只有六個月，所以15跟13這兩個數字是沒辦法比的，如果我們目前算，大概是差不多。目前我們把空污是訂成12……"],["張委員智倫：等一下、等一下，你這樣解釋不正確，它說的是平均，平均怎麼會半年和一年有差別？"],["彭部長啓明：一個是到6月，一個是一整年，計算到12月20號，所以是一整年……"],["張委員智倫：所以一個除以6，一個除以12嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：不一樣喔，因為我們臺灣四季的空污指數高低是不一樣的，通常……"],["張委員智倫：你的意思是說下半年度空污會減少，所以這個數字會回到正常？"],["彭部長啓明：對，當然啦，因為有颱風季，還有下雨的情況都會不一樣，所以如果取上半年平均或一整年平均數字是不一樣的，我們通常會選一年的平均，所以前面那個13.8是比較符合真實的狀況。也報告委員，我們是訂成12，目前我們是亞洲最嚴的國家，那我們四年會檢討一次，當然我心裡面是希望10或5以下，但是這個的確要靠我們的淨零一起來努力。"],["張委員智倫：所以你的目標到年底會是10？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，四年會檢討一次，現在是12，我們希望未來可以往下，但是這個還需要一些科學工具。"],["張委員智倫：好，那就拜託院長跟部長，一起來解決空污問題。謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好。謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長跟相關首長的備詢。","報告院會，本會期排定政黨質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，非常感謝卓院長、鄭副院長以及各部會首長列席答詢。我們10月8號（星期二）上午9點繼續開會，進行立法委員個人質詢內政組之質詢，現在休息。","休息（18時3分）","� https://rwnews.tw/article.php?news=15905","� https://www.chinatimes.com/newspapers/20240901000412-260110?chdtv","� 2024/06/19財委會通過臨時提案，請財政部於立法院這個會期開議前提出財劃法政院版草案。2024/07/02行政院院長卓榮泰表示，現行財劃法經過多年共識執行，足以給予地方幫助、「現行版本就是我們的想法」。(中時新聞網 卓揆：財劃法不提行政院版本 現行版本就是共識https://www.chinatimes.com/newspapers/20240703000522-260110?chdtv) 2024/09/19財政部來函，因地方意見分歧，還要凝聚共識，無法於立法院本會期開議前提出財劃法修正草案。","� https：//www.cna.com.tw/news/aipl/202309170015.aspx","�  2022年全國超徵稅收4,500億元，創史上新高；扣除應分配給地方政府的稅收700億元，中央政府可運用金額為3,800億元，以疫後特別預算進行分配：1,800億元還稅於民，全民普發現金6,000元；1,000億元投入「加強韌性經濟方案」的七項措施，強化傳統產業、農漁業、觀光業等；最後1,000億元則是撥補給台電500億元、勞保基金300億元，以及健保基金200億元。2023年稅收超徵3,860億元，扣除地方部份及還債後剩1,500億元，再補貼台電1,000億元後，剩下500億元進入國庫統收統支，由整個主計制度決定用途。(https：//money.udn.com/money/story/5613/7859081)","� 2019年，監察院曾公布一份調查報告指出，截至2018年10月，全國有1,569棟校舍待補強、401棟校舍待拆除，合計有14萬餘學童，於安全堪慮的校舍環境中上課，認為教育部應強化督導各地方政府，儘速完成國中小校舍耐震能力評估及改善。","� 按內政部公布的「建築物耐震設計規範及解說」，把建築物耐震標準分成四級。","� Is值為耐震指標，可分為三級，數值低於80表示耐震能力不足，80至100有耐震疑慮，100以上則是尚無耐震疑慮。","� 台中市最高，卻也只分得7億元；最低的宜蘭縣獲得900萬餘元。其他縣市如台北市約5億元、新北市3億餘元、桃園市1.5億元。","� (原音)我們國防預算，是依照國家的需要，就保衛國家安全，就這個需要的方面，來編列相關預算，絕不是要依附或滿足哪個數字，這個對我們來講，毫無意義。�(https://www.rti.org.tw/news/view/id/2222338)","� 全世界國防支出佔比GDP最高的國家是「沙烏地阿拉伯」的6.6％，以色列是第2高，佔比5.2％，美國則是佔3.5%左右，而且北約成員國當中有一半以上的佔比都不到2％。","� 其在川普總統任內最後2年擔任國安顧問，若川普當選可能回鍋入閣。","� 據了解，國軍採購雷神公司多項武器裝備，包括：長程預警雷達、愛國者一型與二型飛彈、刺針飛彈，以及潛艦國造原型艦海鯤號的聲納系統等。","� 該智庫將軍售項目分為傳統武器、不對稱作戰武器、彈藥等3個類型，其中傳統武器有108.7億美元，不對稱作戰武器有70億美元，彈藥則有26.6億美元。","� 意謂新一輪貿易戰已然啟動：美國貿易代表署(USTR)宣布，涉及180億美元的中國大陸進口產品「301關稅」於9月27日生效，包括對電動車徵收100％關稅，對太陽能電池徵收50％關稅，對鋼鐵、鋁、電動車電池及關鍵礦物徵收25％關稅。(https://www.ctee.com.tw/news/20240922700014-430105)","� https://www.ctee.com.tw/news/20240912700056-439901","� https://helloyishi.com.tw/health/news/what-is-the-sandwich-generation/","� https://www.pcalife.com.tw/zh/news/20240906-02/","� 截至2023年10月底全台已設置38處心理衛生中心，2025年預計全台完成71處心理衛生中心設置。（https：//udn.com/news/story/7266/7495565）","� 衛福部統計20多年來，各年齡層自殺死亡率65歲以上為最高，前三順位原因包括「憂鬱傾向、罹患憂鬱症或其他精神疾病」、「慢性化疾病問題」和「家庭成員問題」等。","� https：//health.ettoday.net/news/2749829","� 根據國家衛生研究院2022年9月公布的研究結果，高達87%中高齡憂鬱症患者覺得就醫便利，卻只有27%患者尋求醫師治療，最終僅11%患者獲得有效治療，台灣中高齡憂慮症就醫率仍低於歐、美、日等國。�全球憂鬱症就醫率僅約為34.8%；韓國約3到4成、日本5成。","� 51勞動節全國放假有望？陳建仁鬆口了�（� HYPERLINK \"https://tw.news.yahoo.com/51%E5%8B%9E%E5%8B%95%E7%AF%80%E5%85%A8%E5%9C\" �https://tw.news.yahoo.com/51%E5%8B%9E%E5%8B%95%E7%AF%80%E5%85%A8%E5%9C��%8B%E6%94%BE%E5%81%87%E6%9C%89%E6%9C%9B-%E9%99%B3%E5%BB%BA%E4%BB%81%E9%AC%86%E5%8F%A3%E4%BA%86-124910108.html）","� https://udn.com/news/story/7314/8260340"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","郭昱晴","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐富癸","陳菁徽","林宜瑾","羅明才","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳永康","李昆澤","涂權吉","張智倫"],"page_start":33,"meetingDate":["2024-10-04"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00002","1137701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137701_00006"}}}