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00:00:33,605\n有請澎部長澎部長請部長早也感謝召委安排這一個很重要議題不過在今天質詢之前我想先感謝一下我們清潔隊所有的成員因為災後復原、街道整理還有加班來收家裡的垃圾都是有了我們這些成員\n\n2\n00:00:38,559 --> 00:00:57,911\n關於我們的垃圾的一個問題我在上個會期就質詢過兩次了因為垃圾減量呢減了10年多可是好像我們越減越多像天下雜誌9月的時候就有報導說臺灣的垃圾總產量已經持續增高近5年大概已經是\n\n3\n00:00:58,490 --> 00:00:59,550\n韓國日本新加坡日本新加坡他們的\n\n4\n00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:23,761\n臺灣的熱色會越減越多,為什麼?\n\n5\n00:01:34,762 --> 00:02:03,864\n包委員其實第一個是我因為這兩天我也跟我同事討論說這個垃圾量的計算是怎麼去處理那我本身過去是一個資料科學家所以我發現這個處理的算法齁我們還有進步的空間所以委員報告委員在過幾個月希望下個會期可以跟委員提出一個新的方案如果算那個垃圾量因為包含一般垃圾的跟事業廢棄物每個縣市都不大一樣那第二個呢是我們現在主要是外送業者還有這個所謂的網購其實這個量很大很大\n\n6\n00:02:04,224 --> 00:02:05,285\n上次質詢本期就有提到我們看到戰車場、掩埋場\n\n7\n00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:24,010\n林月琴\n\n8\n00:02:43,143 --> 00:02:50,252\n臺灣的廢棄物的妥善處理率竟然是六都的最後所以臺灣許多的那個垃圾戰車廠已經成為一座垃圾山了像包括觀音的寶藏\n\n9\n00:03:03,007 --> 00:03:03,067\n林月琴議員\n\n10\n00:03:15,094 --> 00:03:20,455\n關於垃圾山的問題不僅只有惡臭和污染水源的質疑還有一些存在崩塌活災的問題當然這次報告你也會特別提到說未來怎麼處理可是我也想問一下質詢我在質詢到現在也4個月了\n\n11\n00:03:45,100 --> 00:04:01,929\n不知道環境部如何幫助桃園市的環保局處理這個垃圾問題?報告委員第一個是惡臭的問題那我有些我已經看第二次了那其實惡臭問題它經過一些清消的處理然後其實有改善但是我必須說可能有時候\n\n12\n00:04:02,729 --> 00:04:30,637\n有味道又會再起來那第二個呢火災的問題呢其實我們有協助裝飾這個監測的設備然後也也顯著的有改善了但是其實像前一陣子苗栗還是有發生這個事情我們會特別注意那第三個的是桃園的環保局他們其實市政府的環保局也非常的積極所以他們也跟我們報告說希望也希望大概兩到三年內也能夠把這個處理掉那他們先是由復土的方式把露天的燃燒的露天裸露的部分能夠先處理掉\n\n13\n00:04:31,818 --> 00:04:49,059\n謝謝部長本來我很擔心環境部會不會放生桃園可是看起來在我質詢之後環境部的確編列了3927萬元來協助我們桃園市政府針對於那個垃圾山的這些問題來做處理\n\n14\n00:04:53,858 --> 00:05:09,575\n在垃圾這一塊那環境部目前在處理的時候我看到的是有決心有目標有策略那也有許多媒體露出對外喊話包含彭部長提到說兩年內要讓\n\n15\n00:05:12,558 --> 00:05:30,112\n全台的53座垃圾山消失那今年剛才的報告是說三年可是我怎麼算都有點很難理解了怎麼講呢如果說一到八月你現在減少了四個因為53降到49的話那如果算\n\n16\n00:05:31,053 --> 00:05:45,712\n你對媒體講的兩年那似乎似乎你只會去尤其若用一到八月來算的話你似乎事實上只會減少到18場那如果說今天你剛剛提的用所謂的\n\n17\n00:05:47,984 --> 00:06:03,215\n就是三年的話如果事實上是從你上任來我們從6月起算的話的確你可以減少的是比較多一點可是還是不會把53場消滅掉我不知道說到底那個落差有到底是什麼\n\n18\n00:06:04,116 --> 00:06:26,030\n稍後請您再做說明所以你在南投的時候也提到說未來要去建一個新的粉化爐這些都是你對媒體的說辭那細緻的管理呢你也提到說未來要用AI平台來掌握垃圾量還要強化垃圾掩埋場的防災的措施甚至提到敏感\n\n19\n00:06:27,497 --> 00:06:54,852\n環境敏感地區向新竹新豐跟桃園觀音都要先來做處理可是我還是要回到這次的主題來如果彭部長在接受媒體採訪的時候都說臺灣的垃圾問題呢可能再蓋個20座的焚化爐都沒有辦法解決的時候那問題的根源就是在源頭管理那降低我們的垃圾的製造量所以我想問的是今天媒體都在現場\n\n20\n00:06:55,834 --> 00:06:57,628\n你過去也是參加非常多的研討會論壇\n\n21\n00:06:58,951 --> 00:06:59,131\n林月琴\n\n22\n00:07:29,068 --> 00:07:30,809\n我們的資源循環促進法的進度是什麼?\n\n23\n00:07:51,345 --> 00:08:09,404\n然後環境部是不是已經討論完畢送到行政院那麻煩部長回答這三個好幫委員第一個是你剛才說的這個數字其實現在只有10萬噸減了10萬噸左右但是我們現在在發包左右發包所以應該在明年會加速的來進行所以也請委員再隨時盯著我看那個數字\n\n24\n00:08:10,365 --> 00:08:26,467\n那資源循環促進法呢其實目前我們正在review當中因為我上任之後也跟同仁談了有的說要合在一起但是有的要拆開所以我們做好一個定義了所以目前我們現在重新在審思然後也把產業產官學全部都找在一起大家一起談\n\n25\n00:08:27,108 --> 00:08:49,003\n所以我們預計年底希望能夠行政院能夠給我們同意然後我們再送到貴院能夠來進行審查然後我們的減量的目標其實我必須說我們要重新建立一個國人對於這個資源回收的新的觀念目前的確都忘光了那有些縣市的其實都混在一起很嚴重特別是垃圾多的地方大概就是露天裸露多的地方就是沒做好\n\n26\n00:08:49,423 --> 00:09:11,261\n那彰化是像這種破帶檢查是要給大力的支持的我們希望複製到全台灣然後當然啦這個我們主要的生態系裡面網購的業者外送的業者其實要負很大的責任所以我也會找他們能夠來談一談要善盡企業的社會責任不能只賺錢所以這個部分我們會積極的來進行因為他們是佔了一個很大的比例\n\n27\n00:09:43,244 --> 00:09:44,447\n資源循環促進法\n\n28\n00:09:45,999 --> 00:10:12,046\n現在就是說還要花一點點時間那個一點點時間是多少點點我們希望年底年底可以年底前可以送到我們已經跟行政院的長官也在討論說因為我們過去是把它併在一起但是併在一起太複雜了現在希望把它能夠把它稍微切開有一些功能我們的精神也不大一樣了希望年底能夠那個送進來立法院剛剛部長講投核是到可是最後還是要跟你談預算\n\n29\n00:10:13,306 --> 00:10:39,284\n因為有錢才能辦事情上個會期我就引用民間團體的數據你的中端處理跟源頭管理的話相差了22倍那今年你在環保團體在行政院抗議的時候你們也出來喊話說119年編列1.2億來做源頭的管理減量的這一部分到114年會把預算提高到2.76億可是我們現在看到你送出來的事實上是1.37億當有進步了\n\n30\n00:11:00,282 --> 00:11:26,333\n部長垃圾山處理你的目標跟策略源頭管理也要盡早對外說明讓大家安心那第二個預算編列項目目前我們覺得雖然有增加可是好像還是很大的落差如果一直強調要源頭管理你也提過蓋了20座的紅化爐都再蓋也是處理不了的話那源頭管理這麼重要的話你的預算這麼大的落差怎麼可能解決掉問題\n\n31\n00:11:27,975 --> 00:11:32,825\n會後就麻煩把這相關的我提出來的結論提到我們辦公室來謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10630\t33605\t有請澎部長澎部長請部長早也感謝召委安排這一個很重要議題不過在今天質詢之前我想先感謝一下我們清潔隊所有的成員因為災後復原、街道整理還有加班來收家裡的垃圾都是有了我們這些成員\n38559\t57911\t關於我們的垃圾的一個問題我在上個會期就質詢過兩次了因為垃圾減量呢減了10年多可是好像我們越減越多像天下雜誌9月的時候就有報導說臺灣的垃圾總產量已經持續增高近5年大概已經是\n58490\t59550\t韓國日本新加坡日本新加坡他們的\n83280\t83761\t臺灣的熱色會越減越多,為什麼?\n94762\t123864\t包委員其實第一個是我因為這兩天我也跟我同事討論說這個垃圾量的計算是怎麼去處理那我本身過去是一個資料科學家所以我發現這個處理的算法齁我們還有進步的空間所以委員報告委員在過幾個月希望下個會期可以跟委員提出一個新的方案如果算那個垃圾量因為包含一般垃圾的跟事業廢棄物每個縣市都不大一樣那第二個呢是我們現在主要是外送業者還有這個所謂的網購其實這個量很大很大\n124224\t125285\t上次質詢本期就有提到我們看到戰車場、掩埋場\n143430\t144010\t林月琴\n163143\t170252\t臺灣的廢棄物的妥善處理率竟然是六都的最後所以臺灣許多的那個垃圾戰車廠已經成為一座垃圾山了像包括觀音的寶藏\n183007\t183067\t林月琴議員\n195094\t200455\t關於垃圾山的問題不僅只有惡臭和污染水源的質疑還有一些存在崩塌活災的問題當然這次報告你也會特別提到說未來怎麼處理可是我也想問一下質詢我在質詢到現在也4個月了\n225100\t241929\t不知道環境部如何幫助桃園市的環保局處理這個垃圾問題?報告委員第一個是惡臭的問題那我有些我已經看第二次了那其實惡臭問題它經過一些清消的處理然後其實有改善但是我必須說可能有時候\n242729\t270637\t有味道又會再起來那第二個呢火災的問題呢其實我們有協助裝飾這個監測的設備然後也也顯著的有改善了但是其實像前一陣子苗栗還是有發生這個事情我們會特別注意那第三個的是桃園的環保局他們其實市政府的環保局也非常的積極所以他們也跟我們報告說希望也希望大概兩到三年內也能夠把這個處理掉那他們先是由復土的方式把露天的燃燒的露天裸露的部分能夠先處理掉\n271818\t289059\t謝謝部長本來我很擔心環境部會不會放生桃園可是看起來在我質詢之後環境部的確編列了3927萬元來協助我們桃園市政府針對於那個垃圾山的這些問題來做處理\n293858\t309575\t在垃圾這一塊那環境部目前在處理的時候我看到的是有決心有目標有策略那也有許多媒體露出對外喊話包含彭部長提到說兩年內要讓\n312558\t330112\t全台的53座垃圾山消失那今年剛才的報告是說三年可是我怎麼算都有點很難理解了怎麼講呢如果說一到八月你現在減少了四個因為53降到49的話那如果算\n331053\t345712\t你對媒體講的兩年那似乎似乎你只會去尤其若用一到八月來算的話你似乎事實上只會減少到18場那如果說今天你剛剛提的用所謂的\n347984\t363215\t就是三年的話如果事實上是從你上任來我們從6月起算的話的確你可以減少的是比較多一點可是還是不會把53場消滅掉我不知道說到底那個落差有到底是什麼\n364116\t386030\t稍後請您再做說明所以你在南投的時候也提到說未來要去建一個新的粉化爐這些都是你對媒體的說辭那細緻的管理呢你也提到說未來要用AI平台來掌握垃圾量還要強化垃圾掩埋場的防災的措施甚至提到敏感\n387497\t414852\t環境敏感地區向新竹新豐跟桃園觀音都要先來做處理可是我還是要回到這次的主題來如果彭部長在接受媒體採訪的時候都說臺灣的垃圾問題呢可能再蓋個20座的焚化爐都沒有辦法解決的時候那問題的根源就是在源頭管理那降低我們的垃圾的製造量所以我想問的是今天媒體都在現場\n415834\t417628\t你過去也是參加非常多的研討會論壇\n418951\t419131\t林月琴\n449068\t450809\t我們的資源循環促進法的進度是什麼?\n471345\t489404\t然後環境部是不是已經討論完畢送到行政院那麻煩部長回答這三個好 幫委員第一個是你剛才說的這個數字其實現在只有10萬噸 減了10萬噸左右但是我們現在在發包左右發包所以應該在明年會加速的來進行所以也請委員再隨時盯著我看那個數字\n490365\t506467\t那資源循環促進法呢其實目前我們正在review當中因為我上任之後也跟同仁談了有的說要合在一起但是有的要拆開所以我們做好一個定義了所以目前我們現在重新在審思然後也把產業產官學全部都找在一起大家一起談\n507108\t529003\t所以我們預計年底希望能夠行政院能夠給我們同意然後我們再送到貴院能夠來進行審查然後我們的減量的目標其實我必須說我們要重新建立一個國人對於這個資源回收的新的觀念目前的確都忘光了那有些縣市的其實都混在一起很嚴重特別是垃圾多的地方大概就是露天裸露多的地方就是沒做好\n529423\t551261\t那彰化是像這種破帶檢查是要給大力的支持的我們希望複製到全台灣然後當然啦這個我們主要的生態系裡面網購的業者外送的業者其實要負很大的責任所以我也會找他們能夠來談一談要善盡企業的社會責任不能只賺錢所以這個部分我們會積極的來進行因為他們是佔了一個很大的比例\n551561\t581561\t﹗\n583244\t584447\t資源循環促進法\n585999\t612046\t現在就是說還要花一點點時間那個一點點時間是多少點點我們希望年底年底可以年底前可以送到我們已經跟行政院的長官也在討論說因為我們過去是把它併在一起但是併在一起太複雜了現在希望把它能夠把它稍微切開有一些功能我們的精神也不大一樣了希望年底能夠那個送進來立法院剛剛部長講投核是到可是最後還是要跟你談預算\n613306\t639284\t因為有錢才能辦事情上個會期我就引用民間團體的數據你的中端處理跟源頭管理的話相差了22倍那今年你在環保團體在行政院抗議的時候你們也出來喊話說119年編列1.2億來做源頭的管理減量的這一部分到114年會把預算提高到2.76億可是我們現在看到你送出來的事實上是1.37億當有進步了\n641425\t660162\t﹗\n660282\t686333\t部長垃圾山處理你的目標跟策略源頭管理也要盡早對外說明讓大家安心那第二個預算編列項目目前我們覺得雖然有增加可是好像還是很大的落差如果一直強調要源頭管理你也提過蓋了20座的紅化爐都再蓋也是處理不了的話那源頭管理這麼重要的話你的預算這麼大的落差怎麼可能解決掉問題\n687975\t692825\t會後就麻煩把這相關的我提出來的結論提到我們辦公室來 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝林委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"有請澎部長澎部長請部長早也感謝召委安排這一個很重要議題不過在今天質詢之前我想先感謝一下我們清潔隊所有的成員因為災後復原、街道整理還有加班來收家裡的垃圾都是有了我們這些成員\n關於我們的垃圾的一個問題我在上個會期就質詢過兩次了因為垃圾減量呢減了10年多可是好像我們越減越多像天下雜誌9月的時候就有報導說臺灣的垃圾總產量已經持續增高近5年大概已經是\n韓國日本新加坡日本新加坡他們的\n臺灣的熱色會越減越多,為什麼?\n包委員其實第一個是我因為這兩天我也跟我同事討論說這個垃圾量的計算是怎麼去處理那我本身過去是一個資料科學家所以我發現這個處理的算法齁我們還有進步的空間所以委員報告委員在過幾個月希望下個會期可以跟委員提出一個新的方案如果算那個垃圾量因為包含一般垃圾的跟事業廢棄物每個縣市都不大一樣那第二個呢是我們現在主要是外送業者還有這個所謂的網購其實這個量很大很大\n上次質詢本期就有提到我們看到戰車場、掩埋場\n林月琴\n臺灣的廢棄物的妥善處理率竟然是六都的最後所以臺灣許多的那個垃圾戰車廠已經成為一座垃圾山了像包括觀音的寶藏\n林月琴議員\n關於垃圾山的問題不僅只有惡臭和污染水源的質疑還有一些存在崩塌活災的問題當然這次報告你也會特別提到說未來怎麼處理可是我也想問一下質詢我在質詢到現在也4個月了\n不知道環境部如何幫助桃園市的環保局處理這個垃圾問題?報告委員第一個是惡臭的問題那我有些我已經看第二次了那其實惡臭問題它經過一些清消的處理然後其實有改善但是我必須說可能有時候\n有味道又會再起來那第二個呢火災的問題呢其實我們有協助裝飾這個監測的設備然後也也顯著的有改善了但是其實像前一陣子苗栗還是有發生這個事情我們會特別注意那第三個的是桃園的環保局他們其實市政府的環保局也非常的積極所以他們也跟我們報告說希望也希望大概兩到三年內也能夠把這個處理掉那他們先是由復土的方式把露天的燃燒的露天裸露的部分能夠先處理掉\n謝謝部長本來我很擔心環境部會不會放生桃園可是看起來在我質詢之後環境部的確編列了3927萬元來協助我們桃園市政府針對於那個垃圾山的這些問題來做處理\n在垃圾這一塊那環境部目前在處理的時候我看到的是有決心有目標有策略那也有許多媒體露出對外喊話包含彭部長提到說兩年內要讓\n全台的53座垃圾山消失那今年剛才的報告是說三年可是我怎麼算都有點很難理解了怎麼講呢如果說一到八月你現在減少了四個因為53降到49的話那如果算\n你對媒體講的兩年那似乎似乎你只會去尤其若用一到八月來算的話你似乎事實上只會減少到18場那如果說今天你剛剛提的用所謂的\n就是三年的話如果事實上是從你上任來我們從6月起算的話的確你可以減少的是比較多一點可是還是不會把53場消滅掉我不知道說到底那個落差有到底是什麼\n稍後請您再做說明所以你在南投的時候也提到說未來要去建一個新的粉化爐這些都是你對媒體的說辭那細緻的管理呢你也提到說未來要用AI平台來掌握垃圾量還要強化垃圾掩埋場的防災的措施甚至提到敏感\n環境敏感地區向新竹新豐跟桃園觀音都要先來做處理可是我還是要回到這次的主題來如果彭部長在接受媒體採訪的時候都說臺灣的垃圾問題呢可能再蓋個20座的焚化爐都沒有辦法解決的時候那問題的根源就是在源頭管理那降低我們的垃圾的製造量所以我想問的是今天媒體都在現場\n你過去也是參加非常多的研討會論壇\n林月琴\n我們的資源循環促進法的進度是什麼?\n然後環境部是不是已經討論完畢送到行政院那麻煩部長回答這三個好 幫委員第一個是你剛才說的這個數字其實現在只有10萬噸 減了10萬噸左右但是我們現在在發包左右發包所以應該在明年會加速的來進行所以也請委員再隨時盯著我看那個數字\n那資源循環促進法呢其實目前我們正在review當中因為我上任之後也跟同仁談了有的說要合在一起但是有的要拆開所以我們做好一個定義了所以目前我們現在重新在審思然後也把產業產官學全部都找在一起大家一起談\n所以我們預計年底希望能夠行政院能夠給我們同意然後我們再送到貴院能夠來進行審查然後我們的減量的目標其實我必須說我們要重新建立一個國人對於這個資源回收的新的觀念目前的確都忘光了那有些縣市的其實都混在一起很嚴重特別是垃圾多的地方大概就是露天裸露多的地方就是沒做好\n那彰化是像這種破帶檢查是要給大力的支持的我們希望複製到全台灣然後當然啦這個我們主要的生態系裡面網購的業者外送的業者其實要負很大的責任所以我也會找他們能夠來談一談要善盡企業的社會責任不能只賺錢所以這個部分我們會積極的來進行因為他們是佔了一個很大的比例\n﹗\n資源循環促進法\n現在就是說還要花一點點時間那個一點點時間是多少點點我們希望年底年底可以年底前可以送到我們已經跟行政院的長官也在討論說因為我們過去是把它併在一起但是併在一起太複雜了現在希望把它能夠把它稍微切開有一些功能我們的精神也不大一樣了希望年底能夠那個送進來立法院剛剛部長講投核是到可是最後還是要跟你談預算\n因為有錢才能辦事情上個會期我就引用民間團體的數據你的中端處理跟源頭管理的話相差了22倍那今年你在環保團體在行政院抗議的時候你們也出來喊話說119年編列1.2億來做源頭的管理減量的這一部分到114年會把預算提高到2.76億可是我們現在看到你送出來的事實上是1.37億當有進步了\n﹗\n部長垃圾山處理你的目標跟策略源頭管理也要盡早對外說明讓大家安心那第二個預算編列項目目前我們覺得雖然有增加可是好像還是很大的落差如果一直強調要源頭管理你也提過蓋了20座的紅化爐都再蓋也是處理不了的話那源頭管理這麼重要的話你的預算這麼大的落差怎麼可能解決掉問題\n會後就麻煩把這相關的我提出來的結論提到我們辦公室來 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝林委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.630 --> 00:33.605\n有請澎部長澎部長請部長早也感謝召委安排這一個很重要議題不過在今天質詢之前我想先感謝一下我們清潔隊所有的成員因為災後復原、街道整理還有加班來收家裡的垃圾都是有了我們這些成員\n\n00:38.559 --> 00:57.911\n關於我們的垃圾的一個問題我在上個會期就質詢過兩次了因為垃圾減量呢減了10年多可是好像我們越減越多像天下雜誌9月的時候就有報導說臺灣的垃圾總產量已經持續增高近5年大概已經是\n\n00:58.490 --> 00:59.550\n韓國日本新加坡日本新加坡他們的\n\n01:23.280 --> 01:23.761\n臺灣的熱色會越減越多,為什麼?\n\n01:34.762 --> 02:03.864\n包委員其實第一個是我因為這兩天我也跟我同事討論說這個垃圾量的計算是怎麼去處理那我本身過去是一個資料科學家所以我發現這個處理的算法齁我們還有進步的空間所以委員報告委員在過幾個月希望下個會期可以跟委員提出一個新的方案如果算那個垃圾量因為包含一般垃圾的跟事業廢棄物每個縣市都不大一樣那第二個呢是我們現在主要是外送業者還有這個所謂的網購其實這個量很大很大\n\n02:04.224 --> 02:05.285\n上次質詢本期就有提到我們看到戰車場、掩埋場\n\n02:23.430 --> 02:24.010\n林月琴\n\n02:43.143 --> 02:50.252\n臺灣的廢棄物的妥善處理率竟然是六都的最後所以臺灣許多的那個垃圾戰車廠已經成為一座垃圾山了像包括觀音的寶藏\n\n03:03.007 --> 03:03.067\n林月琴議員\n\n03:15.094 --> 03:20.455\n關於垃圾山的問題不僅只有惡臭和污染水源的質疑還有一些存在崩塌活災的問題當然這次報告你也會特別提到說未來怎麼處理可是我也想問一下質詢我在質詢到現在也4個月了\n\n03:45.100 --> 04:01.929\n不知道環境部如何幫助桃園市的環保局處理這個垃圾問題?報告委員第一個是惡臭的問題那我有些我已經看第二次了那其實惡臭問題它經過一些清消的處理然後其實有改善但是我必須說可能有時候\n\n04:02.729 --> 04:30.637\n有味道又會再起來那第二個呢火災的問題呢其實我們有協助裝飾這個監測的設備然後也也顯著的有改善了但是其實像前一陣子苗栗還是有發生這個事情我們會特別注意那第三個的是桃園的環保局他們其實市政府的環保局也非常的積極所以他們也跟我們報告說希望也希望大概兩到三年內也能夠把這個處理掉那他們先是由復土的方式把露天的燃燒的露天裸露的部分能夠先處理掉\n\n04:31.818 --> 04:49.059\n謝謝部長本來我很擔心環境部會不會放生桃園可是看起來在我質詢之後環境部的確編列了3927萬元來協助我們桃園市政府針對於那個垃圾山的這些問題來做處理\n\n04:53.858 --> 05:09.575\n在垃圾這一塊那環境部目前在處理的時候我看到的是有決心有目標有策略那也有許多媒體露出對外喊話包含彭部長提到說兩年內要讓\n\n05:12.558 --> 05:30.112\n全台的53座垃圾山消失那今年剛才的報告是說三年可是我怎麼算都有點很難理解了怎麼講呢如果說一到八月你現在減少了四個因為53降到49的話那如果算\n\n05:31.053 --> 05:45.712\n你對媒體講的兩年那似乎似乎你只會去尤其若用一到八月來算的話你似乎事實上只會減少到18場那如果說今天你剛剛提的用所謂的\n\n05:47.984 --> 06:03.215\n就是三年的話如果事實上是從你上任來我們從6月起算的話的確你可以減少的是比較多一點可是還是不會把53場消滅掉我不知道說到底那個落差有到底是什麼\n\n06:04.116 --> 06:26.030\n稍後請您再做說明所以你在南投的時候也提到說未來要去建一個新的粉化爐這些都是你對媒體的說辭那細緻的管理呢你也提到說未來要用AI平台來掌握垃圾量還要強化垃圾掩埋場的防災的措施甚至提到敏感\n\n06:27.497 --> 06:54.852\n環境敏感地區向新竹新豐跟桃園觀音都要先來做處理可是我還是要回到這次的主題來如果彭部長在接受媒體採訪的時候都說臺灣的垃圾問題呢可能再蓋個20座的焚化爐都沒有辦法解決的時候那問題的根源就是在源頭管理那降低我們的垃圾的製造量所以我想問的是今天媒體都在現場\n\n06:55.834 --> 06:57.628\n你過去也是參加非常多的研討會論壇\n\n06:58.951 --> 06:59.131\n林月琴\n\n07:29.068 --> 07:30.809\n我們的資源循環促進法的進度是什麼?\n\n07:51.345 --> 08:09.404\n然後環境部是不是已經討論完畢送到行政院那麻煩部長回答這三個好幫委員第一個是你剛才說的這個數字其實現在只有10萬噸減了10萬噸左右但是我們現在在發包左右發包所以應該在明年會加速的來進行所以也請委員再隨時盯著我看那個數字\n\n08:10.365 --> 08:26.467\n那資源循環促進法呢其實目前我們正在review當中因為我上任之後也跟同仁談了有的說要合在一起但是有的要拆開所以我們做好一個定義了所以目前我們現在重新在審思然後也把產業產官學全部都找在一起大家一起談\n\n08:27.108 --> 08:49.003\n所以我們預計年底希望能夠行政院能夠給我們同意然後我們再送到貴院能夠來進行審查然後我們的減量的目標其實我必須說我們要重新建立一個國人對於這個資源回收的新的觀念目前的確都忘光了那有些縣市的其實都混在一起很嚴重特別是垃圾多的地方大概就是露天裸露多的地方就是沒做好\n\n08:49.423 --> 09:11.261\n那彰化是像這種破帶檢查是要給大力的支持的我們希望複製到全台灣然後當然啦這個我們主要的生態系裡面網購的業者外送的業者其實要負很大的責任所以我也會找他們能夠來談一談要善盡企業的社會責任不能只賺錢所以這個部分我們會積極的來進行因為他們是佔了一個很大的比例\n\n09:43.244 --> 09:44.447\n資源循環促進法\n\n09:45.999 --> 10:12.046\n現在就是說還要花一點點時間那個一點點時間是多少點點我們希望年底年底可以年底前可以送到我們已經跟行政院的長官也在討論說因為我們過去是把它併在一起但是併在一起太複雜了現在希望把它能夠把它稍微切開有一些功能我們的精神也不大一樣了希望年底能夠那個送進來立法院剛剛部長講投核是到可是最後還是要跟你談預算\n\n10:13.306 --> 10:39.284\n因為有錢才能辦事情上個會期我就引用民間團體的數據你的中端處理跟源頭管理的話相差了22倍那今年你在環保團體在行政院抗議的時候你們也出來喊話說119年編列1.2億來做源頭的管理減量的這一部分到114年會把預算提高到2.76億可是我們現在看到你送出來的事實上是1.37億當有進步了\n\n11:00.282 --> 11:26.333\n部長垃圾山處理你的目標跟策略源頭管理也要盡早對外說明讓大家安心那第二個預算編列項目目前我們覺得雖然有增加可是好像還是很大的落差如果一直強調要源頭管理你也提過蓋了20座的紅化爐都再蓋也是處理不了的話那源頭管理這麼重要的話你的預算這麼大的落差怎麼可能解決掉問題\n\n11:27.975 --> 11:32.825\n會後就麻煩把這相關的我提出來的結論提到我們辦公室來謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.63,"end":33.605,"text":"有請澎部長澎部長請部長早也感謝召委安排這一個很重要議題不過在今天質詢之前我想先感謝一下我們清潔隊所有的成員因為災後復原、街道整理還有加班來收家裡的垃圾都是有了我們這些成員"},{"start":38.559,"end":57.911,"text":"關於我們的垃圾的一個問題我在上個會期就質詢過兩次了因為垃圾減量呢減了10年多可是好像我們越減越多像天下雜誌9月的時候就有報導說臺灣的垃圾總產量已經持續增高近5年大概已經是"},{"start":58.49,"end":59.55,"text":"韓國日本新加坡日本新加坡他們的"},{"start":83.28,"end":83.761,"text":"臺灣的熱色會越減越多,為什麼?"},{"start":94.762,"end":123.864,"text":"包委員其實第一個是我因為這兩天我也跟我同事討論說這個垃圾量的計算是怎麼去處理那我本身過去是一個資料科學家所以我發現這個處理的算法齁我們還有進步的空間所以委員報告委員在過幾個月希望下個會期可以跟委員提出一個新的方案如果算那個垃圾量因為包含一般垃圾的跟事業廢棄物每個縣市都不大一樣那第二個呢是我們現在主要是外送業者還有這個所謂的網購其實這個量很大很大"},{"start":124.224,"end":125.285,"text":"上次質詢本期就有提到我們看到戰車場、掩埋場"},{"start":143.43,"end":144.01,"text":"林月琴"},{"start":163.143,"end":170.252,"text":"臺灣的廢棄物的妥善處理率竟然是六都的最後所以臺灣許多的那個垃圾戰車廠已經成為一座垃圾山了像包括觀音的寶藏"},{"start":183.007,"end":183.067,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":195.094,"end":200.455,"text":"關於垃圾山的問題不僅只有惡臭和污染水源的質疑還有一些存在崩塌活災的問題當然這次報告你也會特別提到說未來怎麼處理可是我也想問一下質詢我在質詢到現在也4個月了"},{"start":225.1,"end":241.929,"text":"不知道環境部如何幫助桃園市的環保局處理這個垃圾問題?報告委員第一個是惡臭的問題那我有些我已經看第二次了那其實惡臭問題它經過一些清消的處理然後其實有改善但是我必須說可能有時候"},{"start":242.729,"end":270.637,"text":"有味道又會再起來那第二個呢火災的問題呢其實我們有協助裝飾這個監測的設備然後也也顯著的有改善了但是其實像前一陣子苗栗還是有發生這個事情我們會特別注意那第三個的是桃園的環保局他們其實市政府的環保局也非常的積極所以他們也跟我們報告說希望也希望大概兩到三年內也能夠把這個處理掉那他們先是由復土的方式把露天的燃燒的露天裸露的部分能夠先處理掉"},{"start":271.818,"end":289.059,"text":"謝謝部長本來我很擔心環境部會不會放生桃園可是看起來在我質詢之後環境部的確編列了3927萬元來協助我們桃園市政府針對於那個垃圾山的這些問題來做處理"},{"start":293.858,"end":309.575,"text":"在垃圾這一塊那環境部目前在處理的時候我看到的是有決心有目標有策略那也有許多媒體露出對外喊話包含彭部長提到說兩年內要讓"},{"start":312.558,"end":330.112,"text":"全台的53座垃圾山消失那今年剛才的報告是說三年可是我怎麼算都有點很難理解了怎麼講呢如果說一到八月你現在減少了四個因為53降到49的話那如果算"},{"start":331.053,"end":345.712,"text":"你對媒體講的兩年那似乎似乎你只會去尤其若用一到八月來算的話你似乎事實上只會減少到18場那如果說今天你剛剛提的用所謂的"},{"start":347.984,"end":363.215,"text":"就是三年的話如果事實上是從你上任來我們從6月起算的話的確你可以減少的是比較多一點可是還是不會把53場消滅掉我不知道說到底那個落差有到底是什麼"},{"start":364.116,"end":386.03,"text":"稍後請您再做說明所以你在南投的時候也提到說未來要去建一個新的粉化爐這些都是你對媒體的說辭那細緻的管理呢你也提到說未來要用AI平台來掌握垃圾量還要強化垃圾掩埋場的防災的措施甚至提到敏感"},{"start":387.497,"end":414.852,"text":"環境敏感地區向新竹新豐跟桃園觀音都要先來做處理可是我還是要回到這次的主題來如果彭部長在接受媒體採訪的時候都說臺灣的垃圾問題呢可能再蓋個20座的焚化爐都沒有辦法解決的時候那問題的根源就是在源頭管理那降低我們的垃圾的製造量所以我想問的是今天媒體都在現場"},{"start":415.834,"end":417.628,"text":"你過去也是參加非常多的研討會論壇"},{"start":418.951,"end":419.131,"text":"林月琴"},{"start":449.068,"end":450.809,"text":"我們的資源循環促進法的進度是什麼?"},{"start":471.345,"end":489.404,"text":"然後環境部是不是已經討論完畢送到行政院那麻煩部長回答這三個好 幫委員第一個是你剛才說的這個數字其實現在只有10萬噸 減了10萬噸左右但是我們現在在發包左右發包所以應該在明年會加速的來進行所以也請委員再隨時盯著我看那個數字"},{"start":490.365,"end":506.467,"text":"那資源循環促進法呢其實目前我們正在review當中因為我上任之後也跟同仁談了有的說要合在一起但是有的要拆開所以我們做好一個定義了所以目前我們現在重新在審思然後也把產業產官學全部都找在一起大家一起談"},{"start":507.108,"end":529.003,"text":"所以我們預計年底希望能夠行政院能夠給我們同意然後我們再送到貴院能夠來進行審查然後我們的減量的目標其實我必須說我們要重新建立一個國人對於這個資源回收的新的觀念目前的確都忘光了那有些縣市的其實都混在一起很嚴重特別是垃圾多的地方大概就是露天裸露多的地方就是沒做好"},{"start":529.423,"end":551.261,"text":"那彰化是像這種破帶檢查是要給大力的支持的我們希望複製到全台灣然後當然啦這個我們主要的生態系裡面網購的業者外送的業者其實要負很大的責任所以我也會找他們能夠來談一談要善盡企業的社會責任不能只賺錢所以這個部分我們會積極的來進行因為他們是佔了一個很大的比例"},{"start":551.561,"end":581.561,"text":"﹗"},{"start":583.244,"end":584.447,"text":"資源循環促進法"},{"start":585.999,"end":612.046,"text":"現在就是說還要花一點點時間那個一點點時間是多少點點我們希望年底年底可以年底前可以送到我們已經跟行政院的長官也在討論說因為我們過去是把它併在一起但是併在一起太複雜了現在希望把它能夠把它稍微切開有一些功能我們的精神也不大一樣了希望年底能夠那個送進來立法院剛剛部長講投核是到可是最後還是要跟你談預算"},{"start":613.306,"end":639.284,"text":"因為有錢才能辦事情上個會期我就引用民間團體的數據你的中端處理跟源頭管理的話相差了22倍那今年你在環保團體在行政院抗議的時候你們也出來喊話說119年編列1.2億來做源頭的管理減量的這一部分到114年會把預算提高到2.76億可是我們現在看到你送出來的事實上是1.37億當有進步了"},{"start":641.425,"end":660.162,"text":"﹗"},{"start":660.282,"end":686.333,"text":"部長垃圾山處理你的目標跟策略源頭管理也要盡早對外說明讓大家安心那第二個預算編列項目目前我們覺得雖然有增加可是好像還是很大的落差如果一直強調要源頭管理你也提過蓋了20座的紅化爐都再蓋也是處理不了的話那源頭管理這麼重要的話你的預算這麼大的落差怎麼可能解決掉問題"},{"start":687.975,"end":692.825,"text":"會後就麻煩把這相關的我提出來的結論提到我們辦公室來 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝林委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:27:44 - 09:39:19","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155083,"gazette":{"lineno":194,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時27分）有請彭部長。"],["主席：彭部長，請。"],["彭部長啓明：委員早。"],["林委員月琴：部長早，也感謝召委安排這個很重要的議題。不過在今天質詢之前，我想先感謝一下我們清潔隊的所有成員，因為災後復原、街道整理還有加班來收家裡的垃圾都有勞我們這些成員。","關於垃圾的問題，我在上個會期就質詢過兩次了，垃圾減量減了十年多，可是好像越減越多，天下雜誌9月的時候就有報導臺灣的垃圾總產量已經持續增高，近5年大概已經成長了7%，去年達到3,219萬公噸，這些垃圾比101還要高；臺灣每日的人均垃圾量是1.36公斤，近5年大概成長了16.7%，我們已經超越韓國、日本跟新加坡，日本跟新加坡連年減少一般廢棄量，但臺灣卻是連年增加。所以想問一下部長，臺灣的垃圾為什麼會越減越多？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個，這兩天我也跟我同事討論說這個垃圾量的計算是怎麼去處理，我本身過去是一個資料科學家，我發現這個處理的算法還有進步的空間，所以報告委員，再給我幾個月，希望下個會期可以跟委員提出一個新的方案，如何算那個垃圾量，包含一般垃圾跟事業廢棄物，每個縣市都不大一樣；第二個，我們現在主要是外送業者還有所謂的網購其實量很大、很大，這個其實也造就了我們的垃圾量居高不下。另外一個是我們的焚化爐，因為過去都仰賴焚化爐，現在的清運量等於是燃燒量不夠了，所以才會造成天下雜誌報導的情形。"],["林委員月琴：好。上次質詢本席就有提到，我們看到暫置場、掩埋場離市區不遠，可是離學校很近，每當發生火災意外的時候，對小朋友當然就會造成比較嚴重的空污傷害。今年我從天下雜誌裡面的研究看到，我們六都的垃圾量，尤其我認養的桃園市有128萬噸是六都第四，可是今年我們桃園市審計處給出來的報告，桃園的廢棄物妥善處理率竟然是六都的最後，所以桃園許多的垃圾暫置場已經成為垃圾山了，包括觀音的保障垃圾掩埋場、楊梅區的員本垃圾掩埋場、中壢的忠福垃圾掩埋場跟龍潭的店子湖垃圾掩埋場，這是一個快速興起的城市勢必都會遇到的一個問題，上個會期我放同樣的一個簡報，部長，關於垃圾山的這個問題，不僅只有惡臭和污染水源的質疑，還存在一些崩塌、火災的問題，當然這次報告你也特別提到未來怎麼處理，可是我也想問一下，我質詢到現在也四個月了，不知道環境部如何幫助桃園市環保局處理這個垃圾問題？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個是惡臭的問題，有些我已經看第二次了，惡臭問題經過一些清消處理其實有改善，但是我必須說，可能有時候又有味道、又會再起來；第二個是火災的問題，我們有協助裝置監測的設備，也顯著的改善了，但是前一陣子苗栗還是有發生這個事情，我們會特別注意；第三個，桃園市政府環保局其實也非常的積極，他們也跟我們報告說，希望大概兩到三年內能夠把這個處理掉，他們會先用覆土的方式把露天裸露的部分先處理掉。"],["林委員月琴：謝謝部長。本來我很擔心環境部會不會放生桃園，可是看起來在我質詢之後，環境部的確編列了3,927萬元，協助桃園市政府針對垃圾山的這些問題來處理。","環境部目前在處理垃圾這一塊的時候，我看到的是有決心、有目標、有策略，也有許多媒體露出對外喊話，包含彭部長提到兩年內要讓全臺53座垃圾山消失，剛才的報告是說三年，可是我怎麼算都很難理解，怎麼講呢？如果1到8月減少了4個，從53降到49，依你對媒體講的兩年，尤其用1到8月來算的話，事實上只會減少掉18場；如果依你剛剛所提三年的話，從你上任以來，如果從6月起算的話，的確可以減少的比較多一點，但還是不會把53場消滅掉，我不知道到底落差是什麼？所以等一下也要請你再做說明。","你在南投的時候也提到未來要建一個新的焚化爐，這些都是你對媒體的說詞，關於細緻的管理你也提到，未來要用AI平臺來掌握垃圾量，還要強化垃圾掩埋場的防災措施，甚至提到環境敏感地區，像新竹新豐跟桃園觀音你都要先來處理。但我還是要回到這次的主題，如果彭部長在接受媒體採訪的時候都說，臺灣的垃圾問題可能再蓋個20座的焚化爐都沒有辦法解決，那問題的根源就是在源頭管理、降低垃圾的製造量。","今天媒體都在現場，你過去也參加非常多的研討會、論壇，時常大談某種減塑或垃圾減量的方法學、策略、效益，可是政府應該要談的是目標、手段跟社會溝通，所以我想問這三個，我們的垃圾減量目標是什麼？因為2023年的垃圾量已經來到3,200萬噸，未來環境部三年、五年、八年的目標會是什麼？第二個，你的垃圾減量手段是什麼？目標不是只有口號，我們目前推的減塑政策是要求業者綠色包裝，點到為止、交代了事嗎？那一樣問的是三年、五年、八年你會推出什麼樣的手段、達到什麼樣的效果？還有第三個，資源循環促進法的進度是什麼？環境部是不是已經討論完畢送到行政院？麻煩部長回答這三個。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個是你剛才說的這個數字，其實現在減了10萬噸左右，但是我們現在正在發包，所以應該在明年會加速進行，也請委員隨時盯著我、看那個數字。","有關資源循環促進法，其實目前我們正在review當中，因為我上任之後也跟同仁談了，有的說要合在一起、但是有的要拆開，所以我們做好一個定義了，目前我們重新再審視，然後也把產、官、學全部都找在一起、大家一起談，所以我們希望年底行政院能夠同意，然後我們再送到貴院來進行審查。","有關我們的減量目標，我必須說我們要重新建立國人對於資源回收的新觀念。目前的確都忘光了，有些縣市其實都混在一起、很嚴重，特別是垃圾多的地方，大概就是露天裸露多的地方沒做好，像彰化的這種破袋檢查給予大力的支持，我們希望複製到全臺灣。當然在我們所有的生態系裡面，網購的業者、外送的業者其實要負很大的責任，所以我也會找他們來談一談，要善盡企業的社會責任，不能只賺錢，所以這個部分我們會積極來進行，因為他們占了很大的比例，從源頭減量、每個人願意開始做，這才是政府要做的事。當然我們過去也辦了很多示範案例，例如我到很多的地方去宣導市場減塑，但是我必須說，那是讓大家能夠感覺到要做這件事，但是要整個生態系改變我還需要一些時間，例如要透過產業界生態系建立起來才有辦法做得到，所以我們這個部分會改變、跟過去的方式有點不一樣。"],["林委員月琴：好。那資源循環促進法的進度呢？"],["彭部長啓明：現在就是還要花一點點時間，我們內部正在討論。"],["林委員月琴：那個一點點時間是多少點點？"],["彭部長啓明：我們希望年底前可以送到，我們已經跟行政院的長官討論，因為我們過去是把它併在一起，但是併在一起太複雜了，現在希望能夠把它稍微切開，有一些功能、我們的精神也不大一樣了，所以我們要……"],["林委員月琴：希望年底能夠送進來立法院。"],["彭部長啓明：可以。"],["林委員月琴：剛剛部長講的頭頭是道，可是最後我還是要跟你談預算，因為有錢才能辦事情，上個會期我就引用民間團體的數據，你的終端處理跟源頭管理相差了22倍，今年環保團體在行政院抗議的時候你們也出來喊話說：112年編列1.2億來做源頭管理減量的部分，到114年會把預算提高到2.76億。可是我們現在看到你送出來的事實上是1.37億，當然有進步了，過去22倍，現在到15.7倍，可是經過我辦公室再翻閱預算書，好像看到預算沒有這麼地高，你對民間講的是2.76億，可是現在編出來的是1.36億。","所以今天我的結論是：部長，有關垃圾山處理，你的目標跟策略源頭管理也要儘早對外說明、讓大家安心；第二個，有關預算編列項目，目前我們覺得雖然有增加，可是好像還是有很大的落差，如果一直強調要源頭管理，你也提過再蓋20座焚化爐也是處理不了，源頭管理這麼重要的話，你的預算有這麼大的落差怎麼可能解決掉問題？會後就麻煩把這些我提出來的相關結論提到我們辦公室來，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員，謝謝部長。","接續請涂權吉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","王正旭","楊曜","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","羅智強","黃秀芳","劉建國","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","邱若華","何欣純","林淑芬","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00004"}}}