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00:01:04,064\n對阿因為我們看到2020這第一階段溫室氣體管制這個目標其實確定是跳票啦還有一點點時間2020是沒有達到的嘛對對對那而且我們看20222022他基本上\n\n4\n00:01:11,292 --> 00:01:34,551\n也只有減少1.77%那部長好像在也有表示過基本上2025年10%的部分你說這好像有難度對不對有難度對有難度嘛有難度那為什麼2025年減碳10%有難度那怎麼有這個自信還是有什麼政策說在2030年可以減到23到25%\n\n5\n00:01:36,773 --> 00:02:02,563\n在2032年的時候可以減到40%這2025年10%都達不到怎麼短短這幾年怎麼部長有這個自信還是有什麼政策要去推動所以報告委員這個就是我要來從民間到政府服務公職的目標啦因為我如果沒有做到這樣我就不用我來了齁那也跟各位因為過去其實減碳現在只有到2022年那個量真的是不夠多那我們的生態系還沒有建立起來\n\n6\n00:02:03,143 --> 00:02:21,740\n那的確這個問題包括2030的目標從我們一開始接任之後其實來算都很難達到那個目標但是因為這個總統府開了氣候變遷對策委員會之後總統院長跟行政院團隊現在都動起來了所以我們由下而上由上而下都訂了不一樣的目標那的確現在有積極了\n\n7\n00:02:22,601 --> 00:02:51,221\n我們希望在年底的時候能夠公布第三階段也就是說我們到2030、2035的目標能夠出來但是我必須說跟委員報告我們比現在的目標2025可能會達不到我猜可能目前從數字上因為明年就2025了所以我們2026可以知道2025的資料可能會有一點點差距但是2030、20...如果我們加速努力的去改變的話我希望有機會但是這個還要有一些前提就是說我們要做很多事才可以做得到\n\n8\n00:02:51,721 --> 00:03:12,200\n所以我們擔心的就是因為你看現在也從2020年開始也進行那麼久那2025部長上任以後看這個目標基本上應該你也感覺應該有很大的難度啦應該也蠻困難的所以當然這一方面我們部長是專家啦那能夠奠定這個目標我們也是覺得樂觀其成啦\n\n9\n00:03:14,102 --> 00:03:33,615\n那只是說實在話我們現在就是有隱憂喔那因為在減碳的執行上我目前看到我們看這個減碳的執行上我們覺得有很大很大的變數那尤其喔現在我們的能源政策是不是跟經濟部的減碳我們是不是覺得有點背道而行\n\n10\n00:03:35,158 --> 00:03:56,048\n能源政策是屬於經濟部的責任那剛剛委員如果說我猜委員是提到的是是不是要燃煤等等或燃氣其實煤轉氣天然氣是一個過度的能源那我也都尊重那但是國際上有不一樣的對於能源有不一樣的看法那現在其實我相信我們這個行政院也在調整也在觀察這個趨勢當中\n\n11\n00:03:57,609 --> 00:04:17,446\n所以我們現在看到我們一直目標要減碳可是你看我們2023到2024我國發電的配底扣除水利風利太陽能等綠能還有再生能源等等這些都是排碳量發電非常高你看我們這一次我們現在看到我們臺灣針對這部的發電就達到82.5%\n\n12\n00:04:22,971 --> 00:04:51,737\n那現在大家在全球碳費徵收的情況下很多的先進國家都在朝著我們低碳力的能源配比那而且目前我們河山一號機也已經停役這個數據是在河山一號機還沒有停役之前喔那現在河山一號機停役那是不是我們現在要補足這個核電的缺口那跟減碳的目標是不是就更遙遠\n\n13\n00:04:53,466 --> 00:05:08,737\n基本上這個目標全世界還是以綠能的提升為主當然有些國家其實核能也是一個選項之一目前在包含COVID-28的結論是這個樣子當然我必須跟委員報告因為所謂的這個\n\n14\n00:05:09,397 --> 00:05:09,717\n火力燃燒\n\n15\n00:05:25,015 --> 00:05:46,264\n所以我們現在認為我們現在這個能源政策當然這核能是經濟部的問題可是我們減碳來我們環境的問題是環境部在處理那目前我們減碳跟能源的問題我們減碳已經嚴重落後再加上我們的能源政策現在核酸1號機停役\n\n16\n00:05:47,344 --> 00:06:05,044\n明年2025非核家園和核三二號機又要停役那你說你的減碳目標又要達到那麼大的目標這個兩個根本是背道而馳完全是相反所以經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法這個我們執政黨這兩個部會是完全相反的做法\n\n17\n00:06:06,468 --> 00:06:21,361\n你又要減碳經濟部又在減核反核把核能停掉又去用天然氣又去燃煤發電然後環境部又說要減碳的目標要達到那麼高的目標所以我不知道我看不出這政策怎麼達得到\n\n18\n00:06:22,623 --> 00:06:38,865\n因為經濟部是依法辦事我不能幫他回答但是因為按照現有的法令就是核電廠就是按照這個明年的最後一個季五月初一這個是按照法令來解決那因為過去沒有提出來所以只能按照這個法令去做這樣的程序\n\n19\n00:06:39,446 --> 00:07:00,519\n是啊所以我說經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法兩個是相反的做法阿包委員其實我們兩個部會有時候也都會打架都會意見不一樣的這個很正常的事情所以問題是我們執政應該的目標是要一致的嘛所以我瞭解大概我們10月底我們賴總統會召開第二次的氣候變遷委員會那部長應該會參加吧會參加\n\n20\n00:07:03,741 --> 00:07:27,275\n部長好像是裡面的執行秘書我是執行秘書對對那所以我也希望部長在參加這個會議的時候藉由這個會議希望能夠提供正確客觀的資訊能夠兼顧我們環保不要讓這些反科學還有帶有意識形態這些建議讓我們檢探的過程會成為我們檢探過程的絆腳石\n\n21\n00:07:28,796 --> 00:07:43,870\n包委員其實這裡面也包含了例如說這種所謂的安全性的評估和廢料的評估這個都要考慮啦那我們這個委員會目前的確是請環境部能夠把各方面的這個資訊弄成是一個平台公開的讓大家能夠來有一個討論的空間\n\n22\n00:07:45,051 --> 00:07:57,925\n因為其實不管是永和反和其實我們發現現在的論述裡面一邊是沒有辦法說服另外一邊對立的非常的厲害所以我們環境部會積極的現在我們正在規劃那個平台當中也希望10月底能夠跟大家來報告\n\n23\n00:07:59,690 --> 00:08:27,036\n那我想請問一下那個部長你要不要說明一下如果我們減碳的進度落後也讓民眾知道如果落後或失敗的話會對我們造成什麼影響什麼後果基本上如果減碳的進度落後的話當然全球的這個碳定價的這個趨勢已經啟動了所以基本上會變成是一個我們台灣很大的成本那對企業的轉型也會是一個非常大的壓力所以我們還是希望能夠追得上國際的腳步啦\n\n24\n00:08:28,576 --> 00:08:54,544\n所以我一直希望我們當然我們環境部也要適時的表態因為我們講減碳這個是國際趨勢不分朝野黨派而且會嚴重影響到我們經濟還有我們民眾健康等等的問題那所以現在我們一定要正視這個高碳高碳發電的問題還有我們要如何去減碳所以現在要將低碳率\n\n25\n00:08:55,239 --> 00:09:15,510\n的核能真的我覺得要好好的思考一下一直把核能廢除對於我們減碳這個過程可以說是影響非常的大所以經濟部當然就像部長講經濟部有他的期程要去做的事但是我覺得這對民眾的健康還有整個國際的趨勢還有嚴重影響我們的經濟這都是背道而馳那\n\n26\n00:09:19,952 --> 00:09:48,212\n部長也有心要讓我們環境更好而且這個不能影響到我們經濟那我們環境部部長一直在朝減碳的過程訂定這個高的目標可是經濟部的政策跟環境部完全是這個執政上完全是相反的方向所以我說經濟部的做法讓環境部的目標根本就難以達到不但沒有幫忙而且是幫到忙對不對\n\n27\n00:09:49,012 --> 00:10:09,937\n報告委員其實這個是要一起努力啦那他們有他們的難處也有一些程序的問題那當然我們還是鼓勵綠能能夠提升為主按照目前現階段的政策目標希望綠能趕快加速但是綠能也在各方面也有很大的問題所以各種的能源在未來處理都會遇到各式各樣的問題這個是我們國家目前面臨到的處境\n\n28\n00:10:11,278 --> 00:10:11,538\n涂委員．\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7008\t32373\t好 謝謝主席那麻煩請一下我們彭部長吳元昭好部長早部長那今天想說跟你討論一下我們有關碳排跟減碳的問題那在2050年我們因2050進行碳排環境部有依我們氣候變遷因應法定定5年為一期的階段管制目標\n34714\t48023\t我想了解一下我們現在政府在進行減碳工作上有符合這個減碳的目標嗎?從過去到2022、2023的資料來看的話就是現在只有到2022我必須說2005到2022年這段時間其實減的量很低\n53633\t64064\t對阿因為我們看到2020這第一階段溫室氣體管制這個目標其實確定是跳票啦還有一點點時間2020是沒有達到的嘛對對對那而且我們看20222022他基本上\n71292\t94551\t也只有減少1.77%那部長好像在也有表示過基本上2025年10%的部分你說這好像有難度對不對有難度對有難度嘛有難度那為什麼2025年減碳10%有難度那怎麼有這個自信還是有什麼政策說在2030年可以減到23到25%\n96773\t122563\t在2032年的時候可以減到40%這2025年10%都達不到怎麼短短這幾年怎麼部長有這個自信還是有什麼政策要去推動所以報告委員這個就是我要來從民間到政府服務公職的目標啦因為我如果沒有做到這樣我就不用我來了齁那也跟各位因為過去其實減碳現在只有到2022年那個量真的是不夠多那我們的生態系還沒有建立起來\n123143\t141740\t那的確這個問題包括2030的目標從我們一開始接任之後其實來算都很難達到那個目標但是因為這個總統府開了氣候變遷對策委員會之後總統院長跟行政院團隊現在都動起來了所以我們由下而上由上而下都訂了不一樣的目標那的確現在有積極了\n142601\t171221\t我們希望在年底的時候能夠公布第三階段也就是說我們到2030、2035的目標能夠出來但是我必須說跟委員報告我們比現在的目標2025可能會達不到我猜可能目前從數字上因為明年就2025了所以我們2026可以知道2025的資料可能會有一點點差距但是2030、20...如果我們加速努力的去改變的話我希望有機會但是這個還要有一些前提就是說我們要做很多事才可以做得到\n171721\t192200\t所以我們擔心的就是因為你看現在也從2020年開始也進行那麼久那2025部長上任以後看這個目標基本上應該你也感覺應該有很大的難度啦應該也蠻困難的所以當然這一方面我們部長是專家啦那能夠奠定這個目標我們也是覺得樂觀其成啦\n194102\t213615\t那只是說實在話我們現在就是有隱憂喔那因為在減碳的執行上我目前看到我們看這個減碳的執行上我們覺得有很大很大的變數那尤其喔現在我們的能源政策是不是跟經濟部的減碳我們是不是覺得有點背道而行\n215158\t236048\t能源政策是屬於經濟部的責任那剛剛委員如果說我猜委員是提到的是是不是要燃煤等等或燃氣其實煤轉氣天然氣是一個過度的能源那我也都尊重那但是國際上有不一樣的對於能源有不一樣的看法那現在其實我相信我們這個行政院也在調整也在觀察這個趨勢當中\n237609\t257446\t所以我們現在看到我們一直目標要減碳可是你看我們2023到2024我國發電的配底扣除水利風利太陽能等綠能還有再生能源等等這些都是排碳量發電非常高你看我們這一次我們現在看到我們臺灣針對這部的發電就達到82.5%\n262971\t291737\t那現在大家在全球碳費徵收的情況下很多的先進國家都在朝著我們低碳力的能源配比那而且目前我們河山一號機也已經停役這個數據是在河山一號機還沒有停役之前喔那現在河山一號機停役那是不是我們現在要補足這個核電的缺口那跟減碳的目標是不是就更遙遠\n293466\t308737\t基本上這個目標全世界還是以綠能的提升為主當然有些國家其實核能也是一個選項之一目前在包含COVID-28的結論是這個樣子當然我必須跟委員報告因為所謂的這個\n309397\t309717\t火力燃燒\n325015\t346264\t所以我們現在認為我們現在這個能源政策當然這核能是經濟部的問題可是我們減碳來我們環境的問題是環境部在處理那目前我們減碳跟能源的問題我們減碳已經嚴重落後再加上我們的能源政策現在核酸1號機停役\n347344\t365044\t明年2025非核家園和核三二號機又要停役那你說你的減碳目標又要達到那麼大的目標這個兩個根本是背道而馳完全是相反所以經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法這個我們執政黨這兩個部會是完全相反的做法\n366468\t381361\t你又要減碳經濟部又在減核反核把核能停掉又去用天然氣又去燃煤發電然後環境部又說要減碳的目標要達到那麼高的目標所以我不知道我看不出這政策怎麼達得到\n382623\t398865\t因為經濟部是依法辦事我不能幫他回答但是因為按照現有的法令就是核電廠就是按照這個明年的最後一個季五月初一這個是按照法令來解決那因為過去沒有提出來所以只能按照這個法令去做這樣的程序\n399446\t420519\t是啊 所以我說經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法兩個是相反的做法阿包委員其實我們兩個部會有時候也都會打架都會意見不一樣的這個很正常的事情所以問題是我們執政應該的目標是要一致的嘛所以我瞭解大概我們10月底我們賴總統會召開第二次的氣候變遷委員會那部長應該會參加吧會參加\n423741\t447275\t部長好像是裡面的執行秘書我是執行秘書對對那所以我也希望部長在參加這個會議的時候藉由這個會議希望能夠提供正確客觀的資訊能夠兼顧我們環保不要讓這些反科學還有帶有意識形態這些建議讓我們檢探的過程會成為我們檢探過程的絆腳石\n448796\t463870\t包委員其實這裡面也包含了例如說這種所謂的安全性的評估和廢料的評估這個都要考慮啦那我們這個委員會目前的確是請環境部能夠把各方面的這個資訊弄成是一個平台公開的讓大家能夠來有一個討論的空間\n465051\t477925\t因為其實不管是永和反和其實我們發現現在的論述裡面一邊是沒有辦法說服另外一邊對立的非常的厲害所以我們環境部會積極的現在我們正在規劃那個平台當中也希望10月底能夠跟大家來報告\n479690\t507036\t那我想請問一下那個部長你要不要說明一下如果我們減碳的進度落後也讓民眾知道如果落後或失敗的話會對我們造成什麼影響什麼後果基本上如果減碳的進度落後的話當然全球的這個碳定價的這個趨勢已經啟動了所以基本上會變成是一個我們台灣很大的成本那對企業的轉型也會是一個非常大的壓力所以我們還是希望能夠追得上國際的腳步啦\n508576\t534544\t所以我一直希望我們當然我們環境部也要適時的表態因為我們講減碳這個是國際趨勢不分朝野黨派而且會嚴重影響到我們經濟還有我們民眾健康等等的問題那所以現在我們一定要正視這個高碳高碳發電的問題還有我們要如何去減碳所以現在要將低碳率\n535239\t555510\t的核能真的我覺得要好好的思考一下一直把核能廢除對於我們減碳這個過程可以說是影響非常的大所以經濟部當然就像部長講經濟部有他的期程要去做的事但是我覺得這對民眾的健康還有整個國際的趨勢還有嚴重影響我們的經濟這都是背道而馳那\n559952\t588212\t部長也有心要讓我們環境更好而且這個不能影響到我們經濟那我們環境部部長一直在朝減碳的過程訂定這個高的目標可是經濟部的政策跟環境部完全是這個執政上完全是相反的方向所以我說經濟部的做法讓環境部的目標根本就難以達到不但沒有幫忙而且是幫到忙對不對\n589012\t609937\t報告委員其實這個是要一起努力啦那他們有他們的難處也有一些程序的問題那當然我們還是鼓勵綠能能夠提升為主按照目前現階段的政策目標希望綠能趕快加速但是綠能也在各方面也有很大的問題所以各種的能源在未來處理都會遇到各式各樣的問題這個是我們國家目前面臨到的處境\n611278\t611538\t涂委員．\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那麻煩請一下我們彭部長吳元昭好部長早部長那今天想說跟你討論一下我們有關碳排跟減碳的問題那在2050年我們因2050進行碳排環境部有依我們氣候變遷因應法定定5年為一期的階段管制目標\n我想了解一下我們現在政府在進行減碳工作上有符合這個減碳的目標嗎?從過去到2022、2023的資料來看的話就是現在只有到2022我必須說2005到2022年這段時間其實減的量很低\n對阿因為我們看到2020這第一階段溫室氣體管制這個目標其實確定是跳票啦還有一點點時間2020是沒有達到的嘛對對對那而且我們看20222022他基本上\n也只有減少1.77%那部長好像在也有表示過基本上2025年10%的部分你說這好像有難度對不對有難度對有難度嘛有難度那為什麼2025年減碳10%有難度那怎麼有這個自信還是有什麼政策說在2030年可以減到23到25%\n在2032年的時候可以減到40%這2025年10%都達不到怎麼短短這幾年怎麼部長有這個自信還是有什麼政策要去推動所以報告委員這個就是我要來從民間到政府服務公職的目標啦因為我如果沒有做到這樣我就不用我來了齁那也跟各位因為過去其實減碳現在只有到2022年那個量真的是不夠多那我們的生態系還沒有建立起來\n那的確這個問題包括2030的目標從我們一開始接任之後其實來算都很難達到那個目標但是因為這個總統府開了氣候變遷對策委員會之後總統院長跟行政院團隊現在都動起來了所以我們由下而上由上而下都訂了不一樣的目標那的確現在有積極了\n我們希望在年底的時候能夠公布第三階段也就是說我們到2030、2035的目標能夠出來但是我必須說跟委員報告我們比現在的目標2025可能會達不到我猜可能目前從數字上因為明年就2025了所以我們2026可以知道2025的資料可能會有一點點差距但是2030、20...如果我們加速努力的去改變的話我希望有機會但是這個還要有一些前提就是說我們要做很多事才可以做得到\n所以我們擔心的就是因為你看現在也從2020年開始也進行那麼久那2025部長上任以後看這個目標基本上應該你也感覺應該有很大的難度啦應該也蠻困難的所以當然這一方面我們部長是專家啦那能夠奠定這個目標我們也是覺得樂觀其成啦\n那只是說實在話我們現在就是有隱憂喔那因為在減碳的執行上我目前看到我們看這個減碳的執行上我們覺得有很大很大的變數那尤其喔現在我們的能源政策是不是跟經濟部的減碳我們是不是覺得有點背道而行\n能源政策是屬於經濟部的責任那剛剛委員如果說我猜委員是提到的是是不是要燃煤等等或燃氣其實煤轉氣天然氣是一個過度的能源那我也都尊重那但是國際上有不一樣的對於能源有不一樣的看法那現在其實我相信我們這個行政院也在調整也在觀察這個趨勢當中\n所以我們現在看到我們一直目標要減碳可是你看我們2023到2024我國發電的配底扣除水利風利太陽能等綠能還有再生能源等等這些都是排碳量發電非常高你看我們這一次我們現在看到我們臺灣針對這部的發電就達到82.5%\n那現在大家在全球碳費徵收的情況下很多的先進國家都在朝著我們低碳力的能源配比那而且目前我們河山一號機也已經停役這個數據是在河山一號機還沒有停役之前喔那現在河山一號機停役那是不是我們現在要補足這個核電的缺口那跟減碳的目標是不是就更遙遠\n基本上這個目標全世界還是以綠能的提升為主當然有些國家其實核能也是一個選項之一目前在包含COVID-28的結論是這個樣子當然我必須跟委員報告因為所謂的這個\n火力燃燒\n所以我們現在認為我們現在這個能源政策當然這核能是經濟部的問題可是我們減碳來我們環境的問題是環境部在處理那目前我們減碳跟能源的問題我們減碳已經嚴重落後再加上我們的能源政策現在核酸1號機停役\n明年2025非核家園和核三二號機又要停役那你說你的減碳目標又要達到那麼大的目標這個兩個根本是背道而馳完全是相反所以經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法這個我們執政黨這兩個部會是完全相反的做法\n你又要減碳經濟部又在減核反核把核能停掉又去用天然氣又去燃煤發電然後環境部又說要減碳的目標要達到那麼高的目標所以我不知道我看不出這政策怎麼達得到\n因為經濟部是依法辦事我不能幫他回答但是因為按照現有的法令就是核電廠就是按照這個明年的最後一個季五月初一這個是按照法令來解決那因為過去沒有提出來所以只能按照這個法令去做這樣的程序\n是啊 所以我說經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法兩個是相反的做法阿包委員其實我們兩個部會有時候也都會打架都會意見不一樣的這個很正常的事情所以問題是我們執政應該的目標是要一致的嘛所以我瞭解大概我們10月底我們賴總統會召開第二次的氣候變遷委員會那部長應該會參加吧會參加\n部長好像是裡面的執行秘書我是執行秘書對對那所以我也希望部長在參加這個會議的時候藉由這個會議希望能夠提供正確客觀的資訊能夠兼顧我們環保不要讓這些反科學還有帶有意識形態這些建議讓我們檢探的過程會成為我們檢探過程的絆腳石\n包委員其實這裡面也包含了例如說這種所謂的安全性的評估和廢料的評估這個都要考慮啦那我們這個委員會目前的確是請環境部能夠把各方面的這個資訊弄成是一個平台公開的讓大家能夠來有一個討論的空間\n因為其實不管是永和反和其實我們發現現在的論述裡面一邊是沒有辦法說服另外一邊對立的非常的厲害所以我們環境部會積極的現在我們正在規劃那個平台當中也希望10月底能夠跟大家來報告\n那我想請問一下那個部長你要不要說明一下如果我們減碳的進度落後也讓民眾知道如果落後或失敗的話會對我們造成什麼影響什麼後果基本上如果減碳的進度落後的話當然全球的這個碳定價的這個趨勢已經啟動了所以基本上會變成是一個我們台灣很大的成本那對企業的轉型也會是一個非常大的壓力所以我們還是希望能夠追得上國際的腳步啦\n所以我一直希望我們當然我們環境部也要適時的表態因為我們講減碳這個是國際趨勢不分朝野黨派而且會嚴重影響到我們經濟還有我們民眾健康等等的問題那所以現在我們一定要正視這個高碳高碳發電的問題還有我們要如何去減碳所以現在要將低碳率\n的核能真的我覺得要好好的思考一下一直把核能廢除對於我們減碳這個過程可以說是影響非常的大所以經濟部當然就像部長講經濟部有他的期程要去做的事但是我覺得這對民眾的健康還有整個國際的趨勢還有嚴重影響我們的經濟這都是背道而馳那\n部長也有心要讓我們環境更好而且這個不能影響到我們經濟那我們環境部部長一直在朝減碳的過程訂定這個高的目標可是經濟部的政策跟環境部完全是這個執政上完全是相反的方向所以我說經濟部的做法讓環境部的目標根本就難以達到不但沒有幫忙而且是幫到忙對不對\n報告委員其實這個是要一起努力啦那他們有他們的難處也有一些程序的問題那當然我們還是鼓勵綠能能夠提升為主按照目前現階段的政策目標希望綠能趕快加速但是綠能也在各方面也有很大的問題所以各種的能源在未來處理都會遇到各式各樣的問題這個是我們國家目前面臨到的處境\n涂委員．\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.008 --> 00:32.373\n好謝謝主席那麻煩請一下我們彭部長吳元昭好部長早部長那今天想說跟你討論一下我們有關碳排跟減碳的問題那在2050年我們因2050進行碳排環境部有依我們氣候變遷因應法定定5年為一期的階段管制目標\n\n00:34.714 --> 00:48.023\n我想了解一下我們現在政府在進行減碳工作上有符合這個減碳的目標嗎?從過去到2022、2023的資料來看的話就是現在只有到2022我必須說2005到2022年這段時間其實減的量很低\n\n00:53.633 --> 01:04.064\n對阿因為我們看到2020這第一階段溫室氣體管制這個目標其實確定是跳票啦還有一點點時間2020是沒有達到的嘛對對對那而且我們看20222022他基本上\n\n01:11.292 --> 01:34.551\n也只有減少1.77%那部長好像在也有表示過基本上2025年10%的部分你說這好像有難度對不對有難度對有難度嘛有難度那為什麼2025年減碳10%有難度那怎麼有這個自信還是有什麼政策說在2030年可以減到23到25%\n\n01:36.773 --> 02:02.563\n在2032年的時候可以減到40%這2025年10%都達不到怎麼短短這幾年怎麼部長有這個自信還是有什麼政策要去推動所以報告委員這個就是我要來從民間到政府服務公職的目標啦因為我如果沒有做到這樣我就不用我來了齁那也跟各位因為過去其實減碳現在只有到2022年那個量真的是不夠多那我們的生態系還沒有建立起來\n\n02:03.143 --> 02:21.740\n那的確這個問題包括2030的目標從我們一開始接任之後其實來算都很難達到那個目標但是因為這個總統府開了氣候變遷對策委員會之後總統院長跟行政院團隊現在都動起來了所以我們由下而上由上而下都訂了不一樣的目標那的確現在有積極了\n\n02:22.601 --> 02:51.221\n我們希望在年底的時候能夠公布第三階段也就是說我們到2030、2035的目標能夠出來但是我必須說跟委員報告我們比現在的目標2025可能會達不到我猜可能目前從數字上因為明年就2025了所以我們2026可以知道2025的資料可能會有一點點差距但是2030、20...如果我們加速努力的去改變的話我希望有機會但是這個還要有一些前提就是說我們要做很多事才可以做得到\n\n02:51.721 --> 03:12.200\n所以我們擔心的就是因為你看現在也從2020年開始也進行那麼久那2025部長上任以後看這個目標基本上應該你也感覺應該有很大的難度啦應該也蠻困難的所以當然這一方面我們部長是專家啦那能夠奠定這個目標我們也是覺得樂觀其成啦\n\n03:14.102 --> 03:33.615\n那只是說實在話我們現在就是有隱憂喔那因為在減碳的執行上我目前看到我們看這個減碳的執行上我們覺得有很大很大的變數那尤其喔現在我們的能源政策是不是跟經濟部的減碳我們是不是覺得有點背道而行\n\n03:35.158 --> 03:56.048\n能源政策是屬於經濟部的責任那剛剛委員如果說我猜委員是提到的是是不是要燃煤等等或燃氣其實煤轉氣天然氣是一個過度的能源那我也都尊重那但是國際上有不一樣的對於能源有不一樣的看法那現在其實我相信我們這個行政院也在調整也在觀察這個趨勢當中\n\n03:57.609 --> 04:17.446\n所以我們現在看到我們一直目標要減碳可是你看我們2023到2024我國發電的配底扣除水利風利太陽能等綠能還有再生能源等等這些都是排碳量發電非常高你看我們這一次我們現在看到我們臺灣針對這部的發電就達到82.5%\n\n04:22.971 --> 04:51.737\n那現在大家在全球碳費徵收的情況下很多的先進國家都在朝著我們低碳力的能源配比那而且目前我們河山一號機也已經停役這個數據是在河山一號機還沒有停役之前喔那現在河山一號機停役那是不是我們現在要補足這個核電的缺口那跟減碳的目標是不是就更遙遠\n\n04:53.466 --> 05:08.737\n基本上這個目標全世界還是以綠能的提升為主當然有些國家其實核能也是一個選項之一目前在包含COVID-28的結論是這個樣子當然我必須跟委員報告因為所謂的這個\n\n05:09.397 --> 05:09.717\n火力燃燒\n\n05:25.015 --> 05:46.264\n所以我們現在認為我們現在這個能源政策當然這核能是經濟部的問題可是我們減碳來我們環境的問題是環境部在處理那目前我們減碳跟能源的問題我們減碳已經嚴重落後再加上我們的能源政策現在核酸1號機停役\n\n05:47.344 --> 06:05.044\n明年2025非核家園和核三二號機又要停役那你說你的減碳目標又要達到那麼大的目標這個兩個根本是背道而馳完全是相反所以經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法這個我們執政黨這兩個部會是完全相反的做法\n\n06:06.468 --> 06:21.361\n你又要減碳經濟部又在減核反核把核能停掉又去用天然氣又去燃煤發電然後環境部又說要減碳的目標要達到那麼高的目標所以我不知道我看不出這政策怎麼達得到\n\n06:22.623 --> 06:38.865\n因為經濟部是依法辦事我不能幫他回答但是因為按照現有的法令就是核電廠就是按照這個明年的最後一個季五月初一這個是按照法令來解決那因為過去沒有提出來所以只能按照這個法令去做這樣的程序\n\n06:39.446 --> 07:00.519\n是啊所以我說經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法兩個是相反的做法阿包委員其實我們兩個部會有時候也都會打架都會意見不一樣的這個很正常的事情所以問題是我們執政應該的目標是要一致的嘛所以我瞭解大概我們10月底我們賴總統會召開第二次的氣候變遷委員會那部長應該會參加吧會參加\n\n07:03.741 --> 07:27.275\n部長好像是裡面的執行秘書我是執行秘書對對那所以我也希望部長在參加這個會議的時候藉由這個會議希望能夠提供正確客觀的資訊能夠兼顧我們環保不要讓這些反科學還有帶有意識形態這些建議讓我們檢探的過程會成為我們檢探過程的絆腳石\n\n07:28.796 --> 07:43.870\n包委員其實這裡面也包含了例如說這種所謂的安全性的評估和廢料的評估這個都要考慮啦那我們這個委員會目前的確是請環境部能夠把各方面的這個資訊弄成是一個平台公開的讓大家能夠來有一個討論的空間\n\n07:45.051 --> 07:57.925\n因為其實不管是永和反和其實我們發現現在的論述裡面一邊是沒有辦法說服另外一邊對立的非常的厲害所以我們環境部會積極的現在我們正在規劃那個平台當中也希望10月底能夠跟大家來報告\n\n07:59.690 --> 08:27.036\n那我想請問一下那個部長你要不要說明一下如果我們減碳的進度落後也讓民眾知道如果落後或失敗的話會對我們造成什麼影響什麼後果基本上如果減碳的進度落後的話當然全球的這個碳定價的這個趨勢已經啟動了所以基本上會變成是一個我們台灣很大的成本那對企業的轉型也會是一個非常大的壓力所以我們還是希望能夠追得上國際的腳步啦\n\n08:28.576 --> 08:54.544\n所以我一直希望我們當然我們環境部也要適時的表態因為我們講減碳這個是國際趨勢不分朝野黨派而且會嚴重影響到我們經濟還有我們民眾健康等等的問題那所以現在我們一定要正視這個高碳高碳發電的問題還有我們要如何去減碳所以現在要將低碳率\n\n08:55.239 --> 09:15.510\n的核能真的我覺得要好好的思考一下一直把核能廢除對於我們減碳這個過程可以說是影響非常的大所以經濟部當然就像部長講經濟部有他的期程要去做的事但是我覺得這對民眾的健康還有整個國際的趨勢還有嚴重影響我們的經濟這都是背道而馳那\n\n09:19.952 --> 09:48.212\n部長也有心要讓我們環境更好而且這個不能影響到我們經濟那我們環境部部長一直在朝減碳的過程訂定這個高的目標可是經濟部的政策跟環境部完全是這個執政上完全是相反的方向所以我說經濟部的做法讓環境部的目標根本就難以達到不但沒有幫忙而且是幫到忙對不對\n\n09:49.012 --> 10:09.937\n報告委員其實這個是要一起努力啦那他們有他們的難處也有一些程序的問題那當然我們還是鼓勵綠能能夠提升為主按照目前現階段的政策目標希望綠能趕快加速但是綠能也在各方面也有很大的問題所以各種的能源在未來處理都會遇到各式各樣的問題這個是我們國家目前面臨到的處境\n\n10:11.278 --> 10:11.538\n涂委員．\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.008,"end":32.373,"text":"好 謝謝主席那麻煩請一下我們彭部長吳元昭好部長早部長那今天想說跟你討論一下我們有關碳排跟減碳的問題那在2050年我們因2050進行碳排環境部有依我們氣候變遷因應法定定5年為一期的階段管制目標"},{"start":34.714,"end":48.023,"text":"我想了解一下我們現在政府在進行減碳工作上有符合這個減碳的目標嗎?從過去到2022、2023的資料來看的話就是現在只有到2022我必須說2005到2022年這段時間其實減的量很低"},{"start":53.633,"end":64.064,"text":"對阿因為我們看到2020這第一階段溫室氣體管制這個目標其實確定是跳票啦還有一點點時間2020是沒有達到的嘛對對對那而且我們看20222022他基本上"},{"start":71.292,"end":94.551,"text":"也只有減少1.77%那部長好像在也有表示過基本上2025年10%的部分你說這好像有難度對不對有難度對有難度嘛有難度那為什麼2025年減碳10%有難度那怎麼有這個自信還是有什麼政策說在2030年可以減到23到25%"},{"start":96.773,"end":122.563,"text":"在2032年的時候可以減到40%這2025年10%都達不到怎麼短短這幾年怎麼部長有這個自信還是有什麼政策要去推動所以報告委員這個就是我要來從民間到政府服務公職的目標啦因為我如果沒有做到這樣我就不用我來了齁那也跟各位因為過去其實減碳現在只有到2022年那個量真的是不夠多那我們的生態系還沒有建立起來"},{"start":123.143,"end":141.74,"text":"那的確這個問題包括2030的目標從我們一開始接任之後其實來算都很難達到那個目標但是因為這個總統府開了氣候變遷對策委員會之後總統院長跟行政院團隊現在都動起來了所以我們由下而上由上而下都訂了不一樣的目標那的確現在有積極了"},{"start":142.601,"end":171.221,"text":"我們希望在年底的時候能夠公布第三階段也就是說我們到2030、2035的目標能夠出來但是我必須說跟委員報告我們比現在的目標2025可能會達不到我猜可能目前從數字上因為明年就2025了所以我們2026可以知道2025的資料可能會有一點點差距但是2030、20...如果我們加速努力的去改變的話我希望有機會但是這個還要有一些前提就是說我們要做很多事才可以做得到"},{"start":171.721,"end":192.2,"text":"所以我們擔心的就是因為你看現在也從2020年開始也進行那麼久那2025部長上任以後看這個目標基本上應該你也感覺應該有很大的難度啦應該也蠻困難的所以當然這一方面我們部長是專家啦那能夠奠定這個目標我們也是覺得樂觀其成啦"},{"start":194.102,"end":213.615,"text":"那只是說實在話我們現在就是有隱憂喔那因為在減碳的執行上我目前看到我們看這個減碳的執行上我們覺得有很大很大的變數那尤其喔現在我們的能源政策是不是跟經濟部的減碳我們是不是覺得有點背道而行"},{"start":215.158,"end":236.048,"text":"能源政策是屬於經濟部的責任那剛剛委員如果說我猜委員是提到的是是不是要燃煤等等或燃氣其實煤轉氣天然氣是一個過度的能源那我也都尊重那但是國際上有不一樣的對於能源有不一樣的看法那現在其實我相信我們這個行政院也在調整也在觀察這個趨勢當中"},{"start":237.609,"end":257.446,"text":"所以我們現在看到我們一直目標要減碳可是你看我們2023到2024我國發電的配底扣除水利風利太陽能等綠能還有再生能源等等這些都是排碳量發電非常高你看我們這一次我們現在看到我們臺灣針對這部的發電就達到82.5%"},{"start":262.971,"end":291.737,"text":"那現在大家在全球碳費徵收的情況下很多的先進國家都在朝著我們低碳力的能源配比那而且目前我們河山一號機也已經停役這個數據是在河山一號機還沒有停役之前喔那現在河山一號機停役那是不是我們現在要補足這個核電的缺口那跟減碳的目標是不是就更遙遠"},{"start":293.466,"end":308.737,"text":"基本上這個目標全世界還是以綠能的提升為主當然有些國家其實核能也是一個選項之一目前在包含COVID-28的結論是這個樣子當然我必須跟委員報告因為所謂的這個"},{"start":309.397,"end":309.717,"text":"火力燃燒"},{"start":325.015,"end":346.264,"text":"所以我們現在認為我們現在這個能源政策當然這核能是經濟部的問題可是我們減碳來我們環境的問題是環境部在處理那目前我們減碳跟能源的問題我們減碳已經嚴重落後再加上我們的能源政策現在核酸1號機停役"},{"start":347.344,"end":365.044,"text":"明年2025非核家園和核三二號機又要停役那你說你的減碳目標又要達到那麼大的目標這個兩個根本是背道而馳完全是相反所以經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法這個我們執政黨這兩個部會是完全相反的做法"},{"start":366.468,"end":381.361,"text":"你又要減碳經濟部又在減核反核把核能停掉又去用天然氣又去燃煤發電然後環境部又說要減碳的目標要達到那麼高的目標所以我不知道我看不出這政策怎麼達得到"},{"start":382.623,"end":398.865,"text":"因為經濟部是依法辦事我不能幫他回答但是因為按照現有的法令就是核電廠就是按照這個明年的最後一個季五月初一這個是按照法令來解決那因為過去沒有提出來所以只能按照這個法令去做這樣的程序"},{"start":399.446,"end":420.519,"text":"是啊 所以我說經濟部的做法跟環境部的做法兩個是相反的做法阿包委員其實我們兩個部會有時候也都會打架都會意見不一樣的這個很正常的事情所以問題是我們執政應該的目標是要一致的嘛所以我瞭解大概我們10月底我們賴總統會召開第二次的氣候變遷委員會那部長應該會參加吧會參加"},{"start":423.741,"end":447.275,"text":"部長好像是裡面的執行秘書我是執行秘書對對那所以我也希望部長在參加這個會議的時候藉由這個會議希望能夠提供正確客觀的資訊能夠兼顧我們環保不要讓這些反科學還有帶有意識形態這些建議讓我們檢探的過程會成為我們檢探過程的絆腳石"},{"start":448.796,"end":463.87,"text":"包委員其實這裡面也包含了例如說這種所謂的安全性的評估和廢料的評估這個都要考慮啦那我們這個委員會目前的確是請環境部能夠把各方面的這個資訊弄成是一個平台公開的讓大家能夠來有一個討論的空間"},{"start":465.051,"end":477.925,"text":"因為其實不管是永和反和其實我們發現現在的論述裡面一邊是沒有辦法說服另外一邊對立的非常的厲害所以我們環境部會積極的現在我們正在規劃那個平台當中也希望10月底能夠跟大家來報告"},{"start":479.69,"end":507.036,"text":"那我想請問一下那個部長你要不要說明一下如果我們減碳的進度落後也讓民眾知道如果落後或失敗的話會對我們造成什麼影響什麼後果基本上如果減碳的進度落後的話當然全球的這個碳定價的這個趨勢已經啟動了所以基本上會變成是一個我們台灣很大的成本那對企業的轉型也會是一個非常大的壓力所以我們還是希望能夠追得上國際的腳步啦"},{"start":508.576,"end":534.544,"text":"所以我一直希望我們當然我們環境部也要適時的表態因為我們講減碳這個是國際趨勢不分朝野黨派而且會嚴重影響到我們經濟還有我們民眾健康等等的問題那所以現在我們一定要正視這個高碳高碳發電的問題還有我們要如何去減碳所以現在要將低碳率"},{"start":535.239,"end":555.51,"text":"的核能真的我覺得要好好的思考一下一直把核能廢除對於我們減碳這個過程可以說是影響非常的大所以經濟部當然就像部長講經濟部有他的期程要去做的事但是我覺得這對民眾的健康還有整個國際的趨勢還有嚴重影響我們的經濟這都是背道而馳那"},{"start":559.952,"end":588.212,"text":"部長也有心要讓我們環境更好而且這個不能影響到我們經濟那我們環境部部長一直在朝減碳的過程訂定這個高的目標可是經濟部的政策跟環境部完全是這個執政上完全是相反的方向所以我說經濟部的做法讓環境部的目標根本就難以達到不但沒有幫忙而且是幫到忙對不對"},{"start":589.012,"end":609.937,"text":"報告委員其實這個是要一起努力啦那他們有他們的難處也有一些程序的問題那當然我們還是鼓勵綠能能夠提升為主按照目前現階段的政策目標希望綠能趕快加速但是綠能也在各方面也有很大的問題所以各種的能源在未來處理都會遇到各式各樣的問題這個是我們國家目前面臨到的處境"},{"start":611.278,"end":611.538,"text":"涂委員．"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:39:27 - 09:49:57","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155087,"gazette":{"lineno":220,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（9時39分）謝謝主席，麻煩請一下彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：涂委員早。"],["涂委員權吉：部長早。部長，今天想跟你討論有關碳排跟減碳的問題，我們因應2050淨零碳排，環境部有依氣候變遷因應法訂定五年為一期的階段管制目標，對吧？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["涂委員權吉：我想了解一下，我們政府現在在進行減碳工作有符合這個減碳的目標嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：從過去到2022、2023的資料來看的話，現在只有到2022，我必須說2005到2022年這段時間減的量其實很低！"],["涂委員權吉：對啊，因為我們看到2020第一階段溫室氣體管制的這個目標確定跳票了！"],["彭部長啓明：還有一點點時間。"],["涂委員權吉：2020是沒有達到嘛。"],["彭部長啓明：對！"],["涂委員權吉：而且我們看到2022基本上也只有減少1.77%。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["涂委員權吉：部長好像也有表示過，基本上2025年10%的部分好像有難度，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對，有難度。"],["涂委員權吉：有難度嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：對，有難度。"],["涂委員權吉：既然2025年減碳10%有難度，那怎麼有這個自信，還是有什麼政策說在2030年就可以減到23到25%，2032年就可以減到40%？2025年10%都達不到了，怎麼短短這幾年就可以達到？是部長有自信，還是有什麼政策要去推動？"],["彭部長啓明：所以報告委員，這個就是我要從民間到政府從事公職服務的目標，因為如果沒有做到這樣，就不用我來了。也跟委員報告，過去其實減碳只有到2022年，那個量真的是不夠多，我們的生態系還沒有建立起來，的確這個問題，包含2030的目標，即使從我們一開始接任起算都很難達到那個目標。但是因為總統府開了氣候變遷對策委員會之後，總統、院長跟行政院團隊現在都動起來了，所以我們由下而上、由上而下都訂了不一樣的目標，的確現在有積極了，我們希望在年底的時候能夠公布第三階段，也就是說，我們到2030、2035的目標能夠出來。但是我必須跟委員報告，比起現在的目標，目前從數字上來看，我猜2025可能會達不到，因為明年就2025了，所以我們2026可以知道2025的資料，可能會有一點點差距，但是2030，如果我們加速努力去改變的話，我希望有機會，但是這個還要有一些前提，就是說我們要做很多事才可以做得到。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們擔心的就是，因為從2020年開始也進行那麼久了，部長上任以後，你看2025這個目標，基本上你應該也感覺有很大的難度。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["涂委員權吉：應該也滿困難的，當然這一方面部長是專家，能夠訂定這個目標，我們也是樂觀其成。只是說實在話，現在就是有隱憂，因為我們看到目前在減碳的執行上有很大、很大的變數，尤其是現在的能源政策跟經濟部的減碳，我們覺得是不是有點背道而行？"],["彭部長啓明：能源政策是屬於經濟部的責任，我猜剛剛委員提到的是，是不是要燃煤或燃氣等等？"],["涂委員權吉：對。"],["彭部長啓明：其實煤轉氣，天然氣是一個過渡的能源，我也都尊重，但是國際上對於能源有不一樣的看法，現在行政院也在觀察這個趨勢當中。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們現在看到，我們的目標一直要減碳，可是你看2023到2024我國發電的配比，扣除水力、風力、太陽能等綠能，還有再生能源等等，這些都是排碳量發電非常高的，你看臺灣針對這一部分的發電就達到82.5%，現在在全球碳費徵收的情況下，很多先進國家都朝著低碳力的能源配比，而且目前我們的核三1號機也已經停役，這個數據是在核三1號機還沒有停役之前統計的，現在核三1號機已經停役，我們是不是又要補足核電的缺口？那離減碳的目標是不是就更遙遠了？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上這個目標全世界還是以綠能的提升為主，當然有些國家核能也是選項之一，目前包含COP28的結論也是這個樣子。當然，我必須跟委員報告，所謂的火力燃燒也分兩種，一個是燃煤，一個是燃氣，燃氣比火力大概少了三分之一，這是一個過渡型的，其實它未來也會沒有，但是在綠能或是新的能源還沒有起來之前，需要這樣一個過渡的轉換，所以那個比例現在可能會比較高沒錯。"],["涂委員權吉：我們認為現在這個能源政策，當然核能是經濟部的問題，可是環境的問題是環境部在處理，目前關於減碳跟能源的問題，我們減碳已經嚴重落後，再加上我們的能源政策，現在核三1號機停役，明年2025非核家園，核三2號機又要停役，然後你說你的減碳目標又要達到那麼大的目標，這兩個根本就是背道而馳，完全是相反的，所以經濟部的作法跟環境部的作法，執政黨這兩個部會是完全相反的，你又要減碳，然後經濟部又在減核、反核，把核能停掉，又去用天然氣，又去燃煤發電，然後環境部又說減碳的目標要達到那麼高的目標，所以我看不出這個政策怎麼達得到？"],["彭部長啓明：因為經濟部是依法辦事，我不能幫他回答，但是按照現有的法令，核電廠明年最後一個機就是5月除役，這個是按照法令來解決，因為過去沒有提出來，所以只能按照法令去做這樣的程序。"],["涂委員權吉：是啊，所以我說經濟部的作法跟環境部的作法兩個是相反的。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實我們兩個部會有時候也會打架，都會意見不一樣，這個是很正常的事情。"],["涂委員權吉：問題是你們執政的目標應該是要一致。就我的了解，大概10月底賴總統會召開第二次的氣候變遷委員會，部長應該會參加吧？"],["彭部長啓明：對，會參加。"],["涂委員權吉：部長好像是裡面的執行秘書。"],["彭部長啓明：對，我是執行秘書。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我也希望部長在參加這個會議的時候，能夠藉由這個會議提供正確、客觀的資訊，並兼顧我們的環保，不要讓這些反科學以及帶有意識形態的建議成為我們減碳過程的絆腳石。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實這裡面也包含例如所謂安全性的評估、核廢料的評估，這些都要考慮進去。這個委員會目前的確是請環境部把各方面的資訊弄成一個平臺，公開讓大家能夠有一個討論的空間，因為不管是擁核、反核，其實我們發現在現在的論述裡面，一邊是沒有辦法說服另外一邊的，對立得非常厲害，所以環境部會很積極，現在我們正在規劃那個平臺當中，也希望10月底能夠跟大家來報告。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，你要不要說明一下，也讓民眾知道，如果我們減碳的進度落後或失敗的話，會對我們造成什麼影響、什麼後果？"],["彭部長啓明：如果減碳的進度落後的話，當然全球碳定價的趨勢已經啟動了，所以基本上會變成臺灣一個很大的成本，對於企業轉型也會是一個非常大的壓力，所以我們還是希望能夠追得上國際的腳步。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我一直希望環境部也要適時的表態，因為我們講減碳是國際趨勢，不分朝野黨派，而且會嚴重影響到我們經濟還有民眾健康等等的問題，所以現在我們一定要去正視這個高碳發電的問題，還有我們要如何去減碳。現在要將低碳力的核能廢除，我真的覺得要好好的思考一下，一直把核能廢除，對於我們減碳的過程可以說是影響非常大。當然，就像部長講的，經濟部有它的期程要去做的事，但是我覺得這跟民眾的健康還有整個國際趨勢都是背道而馳的，還嚴重影響我們的經濟。部長也有心要讓我們的環境更好，而且不能影響到我們的經濟，環境部部長一直在朝減碳的過程訂定這個高的目標，可是經濟部的政策跟環境部在執政上卻完全是相反的方向，所以我說經濟部的作法讓環境部的目標根本就難以達到，不但沒有幫忙到，而且是幫倒忙，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實這個要一起努力啦！他們有他們的難處，也有一些程序的問題，當然，我們還是鼓勵能夠以提升綠能為主，按照目前現階段的政策目標，希望綠能能趕快加速，但是綠能在各方面也有很大的問題，所以各種能源在未來處理都會遇到各式各樣的問題，這個是我們國家目前面臨的處境。"],["涂委員權吉：當然我也期許部長能夠朝著目標前進。"],["彭部長啓明：OK。"],["涂委員權吉：可是說實在地，2032的時候，執政黨已經換兩屆了，我不知道到時候這個目標要由誰來負責？"],["彭部長啓明：我們希望可以努力來完成啦！謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：好。"],["主席：謝謝涂委員，謝謝部長。","接續請盧縣一委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","王正旭","楊曜","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","羅智強","黃秀芳","劉建國","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","邱若華","何欣純","林淑芬","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00004"}}}