{"date":"2024-10-07","影片長度":"00:06:43","end_time":"2024-10-07T09:51:12+08:00","type":"Clip","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155089","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","duration":403,"start_time":"2024-10-07T09:44:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fbd4f581a444b49360b53f5777ee9ff5de01320d1e415bd4772a8a89b87e0382bf08d13ba3372ad95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"id":"155089","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155089","tool":"pyannote","id":"155089-pyannote"},"job_id":"TGFUcqAVW1L9ReLd","queued_at":"2024-10-07 19:56:06","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-10-07 20:00:45","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155089","target":null},{"time":"2024-10-07 20:00:46","msg":"download ivod and merge to wav","target":"/home/conda/test/whisper-api-data/tmp/lyivod_https:__ivod.ly.gov.tw_Play_Clip_1M_155089.wav"},{"time":"2024-10-07 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19:56:07","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-10-07 20:02:11","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155089","target":null},{"time":"2024-10-07 20:02:12","msg":"already downloaded","target":"/home/conda/test/whisper-api-data/tmp/lyivod_https:__ivod.ly.gov.tw_Play_Clip_1M_155089.wav"},{"time":"2024-10-07 20:02:12","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長報告一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢。二、「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢。【機密】）\n發言委員：沈伯洋'","target":null},{"time":"2024-10-07 20:02:30","msg":"merging result","target":null},{"time":"2024-10-07 20:02:30","msg":"status: done","target":null}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 0.09, \"end\": 1.927, \"text\": \"謝謝請國防部部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 0.09, \"end\": 1.766, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1.766, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 380.873, \"end\": 381.133, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 381.133, \"end\": 381.473, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 381.473, \"end\": 381.553, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 381.553, \"end\": 381.573, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 382.293, \"end\": 382.473, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 382.473, \"end\": 382.493, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:01,927\n謝謝請國防部部長\n\n2\n00:00:09,113 --> 00:00:14,358\n我先問一下這個翰翔的這件事情就是說因為我看到翰翔在2023年有說他導入這個CNMC就是美國這個公立院資安的相關的一個規範\n\n3\n00:00:33,436 --> 00:01:02,173\n那目前是應用在F16的維修那這一個他說2026年美國當然是要求要全面實施那因為剛好這次漢翔出現了這個新聞爆炸的事項我就不再重複那因為畢竟這是落實的問題就是說因為我們宣稱說我們要符合這樣的一個規範但是符合這個規範以後呢那到底今天發生的事情呢有沒有在這一個相關的這個產業鏈安全的這個規範裡面那如果要落實的話以後我們要怎麼去說明可不可以請這一個說明一下謝謝\n\n4\n00:01:03,567 --> 00:01:29,934\n各位很簡單報告第一個就是漢祥他洩漏在網路上的資料我們經過初步的查證沒有涉及軍事機密或國家機密所以他沒有違法的部分但是他在我們的合約保密條款裡面所有公務上的相關的資訊都不能在網路上洩漏所以我們才會裁罰他一百萬元這個純粹是就是工程師個人的行為目前我們界定是這個樣子所以我覺得這個也要小心因為畢竟我們已經開始要納入到產業鏈資安的規範\n\n5\n00:01:31,855 --> 00:01:52,656\n對,他很想因為跟美國有一些零附件的一些合作所以他很希望能夠儘速導入CMMC那我們也在鼓勵中科院還有其他的相關要導入這個美國現在驅龍化的供應鏈的這些包括無人載具的系統也要希望能夠導入這個CMMC資安承受署的認證\n\n6\n00:01:54,258 --> 00:02:22,886\n那剛好最近這個新聞也有報導就是說我們這個台灣媒體這個還是就是不是台灣媒體台灣媒體去引用這個其他的媒體說我們現在軍用品有這個中國製的產品那這個當然中科院我看到有一個初步的回應不過這件事情我覺得很奇怪就是說不管是國內的廠商有意見然後還是說有人去爆料為什麼有人爆料會先去新馬傳媒網去爆料這個對我來講也是一件非常詭異的事情你要爆料當然是台灣現在在場有那麼多媒體都可以爆料\n\n7\n00:02:23,246 --> 00:02:49,951\n報料到海外然後在國內的媒體在引述這件事蠻奇怪的但即使他很奇怪但我們還是要正視這個問題那不知道現在這件事情的這個狀況是如何今天和明天我們跟廠商講好了一起開箱驗收我們會針對所有被爆料質疑的部分一項一項去檢驗所以要花兩天的時間那我想問一下就是說在這個爆料還沒有出現之前本來驗收的時間就是在大概這個時候嗎還是說現在是你們提早的驗收的時間\n\n8\n00:02:51,004 --> 00:02:53,407\n最後就是今天因為還有一個今天的專案報告的主題是這個臺美的這個國防工業會議\n\n9\n00:03:11,128 --> 00:03:39,350\n我還是在我剛才機密會議有講過就是台美這個國防工業會議是一個不對外公開的會議不對外公開的會議那我們現在在這邊講然後現在又是一個公開的場合對我來講是有點奇怪所以呢當然現在既然已經排了所以我們還是針對這個做質詢但是我問一些別的問題第一個我想要問的就是這個就是這個創新小組因為上次在上個會期快結束的時候有講到這個DIU那這個DIU目前的發展的狀況如何\n\n10\n00:03:40,151 --> 00:04:03,655\n因為畢竟今天如果我們講這個跟台美這個國防工業會議要去洽談要去討論等等事情除了本來我們武器上面的一些需求等等之外在研發上面兩邊互相怎麼溝通我覺得DIU通常來講還是可以扮演一個蠻重要的角色那不知道現在DIU因為上次在問的時候是說現在正在廣納正在這個招募相關的這種新的人員那不知道現在的進度為何\n\n11\n00:04:04,575 --> 00:04:32,423\n跟委員報告第一個是說我們在國內的部分就是我們現在跟國會、蘇華部、經濟部建立一個跨部會的一個平臺那就這個跨部會平臺呢我們會提出我們國軍的需求然後呢其他的部會透過補助國內的民間廠商他去做投入開發那開發之後呢或者直接就產生一個成熟的商品然後支持我們來做這樣子我們的一個戰力整建這樣子\n\n12\n00:04:33,143 --> 00:04:34,565\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售涉虛報軍\n\n13\n00:04:52,927 --> 00:04:53,087\n美國商務部長報告\n\n14\n00:05:17,272 --> 00:05:37,450\n來進行這些無人機、無人載具的這些交流的這些活動我們透過這個然後自己本身做一些商品表演所以我們會以不同的項目需求的項目評估納入就來剛剛講還透過國內跨部會的合作模式我們進行研訓、開發科研或者是建案來籌貨這樣\n\n15\n00:05:40,092 --> 00:05:54,364\n主席,再給我30秒,不好意思。因為DIU,剛剛有講到它跟印太等等之類相關的交流。因為交流畢竟還是需要預算。因為在之前2023年的時候,就有曾經動用過預備金去做這些相關的交流。\n\n16\n00:05:55,345 --> 00:06:21,573\n我是想說因為現在預算書已經送出來了但是這方面的交流相關的預算的這個編列不知道現在的狀況如何但因為現在時間的關係已經到了所以這個不然我下次再繼續問那我之後可能我也先跟部長講一下後來想再問就也是跟這個工業有關就是因為畢竟我們這個FMF可以分成無償跟有償那現在拜登政府簽了這些無償的部分但我不知道美方到底有沒有無償以後轉有償的一些需求或想法那因為這個一定會\n\n17\n00:06:22,293 --> 00:06:22,493\n謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n90\t1927\t謝謝請國防部部長\n9113\t14358\t我先問一下這個翰翔的這件事情就是說因為我看到翰翔在2023年有說他導入這個CNMC就是美國這個公立院資安的相關的一個規範\n33436\t62173\t那目前是應用在F16的維修那這一個他說2026年美國當然是要求要全面實施那因為剛好這次漢翔出現了這個新聞爆炸的事項我就不再重複那因為畢竟這是落實的問題就是說因為我們宣稱說我們要符合這樣的一個規範但是符合這個規範以後呢那到底今天發生的事情呢有沒有在這一個相關的這個產業鏈安全的這個規範裡面那如果要落實的話以後我們要怎麼去說明可不可以請這一個說明一下謝謝\n63567\t89934\t各位很簡單報告第一個就是漢祥他洩漏在網路上的資料我們經過初步的查證沒有涉及軍事機密或國家機密所以他沒有違法的部分但是他在我們的合約保密條款裡面所有公務上的相關的資訊都不能在網路上洩漏所以我們才會裁罰他一百萬元這個純粹是就是工程師個人的行為目前我們界定是這個樣子所以我覺得這個也要小心因為畢竟我們已經開始要納入到產業鏈資安的規範\n91855\t112656\t對,他很想因為跟美國有一些零附件的一些合作所以他很希望能夠儘速導入CMMC那我們也在鼓勵中科院還有其他的相關要導入這個美國現在驅龍化的供應鏈的這些包括無人載具的系統也要希望能夠導入這個CMMC資安承受署的認證\n114258\t142886\t那剛好最近這個新聞也有報導就是說我們這個台灣媒體這個還是就是不是台灣媒體台灣媒體去引用這個其他的媒體說我們現在軍用品有這個中國製的產品那這個當然中科院我看到有一個初步的回應不過這件事情我覺得很奇怪就是說不管是國內的廠商有意見然後還是說有人去爆料為什麼有人爆料會先去新馬傳媒網去爆料這個對我來講也是一件非常詭異的事情你要爆料當然是台灣現在在場有那麼多媒體都可以爆料\n143246\t169951\t報料到海外然後在國內的媒體在引述這件事蠻奇怪的但即使他很奇怪但我們還是要正視這個問題那不知道現在這件事情的這個狀況是如何今天和明天我們跟廠商講好了一起開箱驗收我們會針對所有被爆料質疑的部分一項一項去檢驗所以要花兩天的時間那我想問一下就是說在這個爆料還沒有出現之前本來驗收的時間就是在大概這個時候嗎還是說現在是你們提早的驗收的時間\n171004\t173407\t最後就是今天因為還有一個今天的專案報告的主題是這個臺美的這個國防工業會議\n191128\t219350\t我還是在我剛才機密會議有講過就是台美這個國防工業會議是一個不對外公開的會議不對外公開的會議那我們現在在這邊講然後現在又是一個公開的場合對我來講是有點奇怪所以呢當然現在既然已經排了所以我們還是針對這個做質詢但是我問一些別的問題第一個我想要問的就是這個就是這個創新小組因為上次在上個會期快結束的時候有講到這個DIU那這個DIU目前的發展的狀況如何\n220151\t243655\t因為畢竟今天如果我們講這個跟台美這個國防工業會議要去洽談要去討論等等事情除了本來我們武器上面的一些需求等等之外在研發上面兩邊互相怎麼溝通我覺得DIU通常來講還是可以扮演一個蠻重要的角色那不知道現在DIU因為上次在問的時候是說現在正在廣納正在這個招募相關的這種新的人員那不知道現在的進度為何\n244575\t272423\t跟委員報告第一個是說我們在國內的部分就是我們現在跟國會、蘇華部、經濟部建立一個跨部會的一個平臺那就這個跨部會平臺呢我們會提出我們國軍的需求然後呢其他的部會透過補助國內的民間廠商他去做投入開發那開發之後呢或者直接就產生一個成熟的商品然後支持我們來做這樣子我們的一個戰力整建這樣子\n273143\t274565\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售涉虛報軍\n292927\t293087\t美國商務部長報告\n317272\t337450\t來進行這些無人機、無人載具的這些交流的這些活動我們透過這個然後自己本身做一些商品表演所以我們會以不同的項目需求的項目評估納入就來剛剛講還透過國內跨部會的合作模式我們進行研訓、開發科研或者是建案來籌貨這樣\n340092\t354364\t主席,再給我30秒,不好意思。因為DIU,剛剛有講到它跟印太等等之類相關的交流。因為交流畢竟還是需要預算。因為在之前2023年的時候,就有曾經動用過預備金去做這些相關的交流。\n355345\t381573\t我是想說因為現在預算書已經送出來了但是這方面的交流相關的預算的這個編列不知道現在的狀況如何但因為現在時間的關係已經到了所以這個不然我下次再繼續問那我之後可能我也先跟部長講一下後來想再問就也是跟這個工業有關就是因為畢竟我們這個FMF可以分成無償跟有償那現在拜登政府簽了這些無償的部分但我不知道美方到底有沒有無償以後轉有償的一些需求或想法那因為這個一定會\n382293\t382493\t謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝請國防部部長\n我先問一下這個翰翔的這件事情就是說因為我看到翰翔在2023年有說他導入這個CNMC就是美國這個公立院資安的相關的一個規範\n那目前是應用在F16的維修那這一個他說2026年美國當然是要求要全面實施那因為剛好這次漢翔出現了這個新聞爆炸的事項我就不再重複那因為畢竟這是落實的問題就是說因為我們宣稱說我們要符合這樣的一個規範但是符合這個規範以後呢那到底今天發生的事情呢有沒有在這一個相關的這個產業鏈安全的這個規範裡面那如果要落實的話以後我們要怎麼去說明可不可以請這一個說明一下謝謝\n各位很簡單報告第一個就是漢祥他洩漏在網路上的資料我們經過初步的查證沒有涉及軍事機密或國家機密所以他沒有違法的部分但是他在我們的合約保密條款裡面所有公務上的相關的資訊都不能在網路上洩漏所以我們才會裁罰他一百萬元這個純粹是就是工程師個人的行為目前我們界定是這個樣子所以我覺得這個也要小心因為畢竟我們已經開始要納入到產業鏈資安的規範\n對,他很想因為跟美國有一些零附件的一些合作所以他很希望能夠儘速導入CMMC那我們也在鼓勵中科院還有其他的相關要導入這個美國現在驅龍化的供應鏈的這些包括無人載具的系統也要希望能夠導入這個CMMC資安承受署的認證\n那剛好最近這個新聞也有報導就是說我們這個台灣媒體這個還是就是不是台灣媒體台灣媒體去引用這個其他的媒體說我們現在軍用品有這個中國製的產品那這個當然中科院我看到有一個初步的回應不過這件事情我覺得很奇怪就是說不管是國內的廠商有意見然後還是說有人去爆料為什麼有人爆料會先去新馬傳媒網去爆料這個對我來講也是一件非常詭異的事情你要爆料當然是台灣現在在場有那麼多媒體都可以爆料\n報料到海外然後在國內的媒體在引述這件事蠻奇怪的但即使他很奇怪但我們還是要正視這個問題那不知道現在這件事情的這個狀況是如何今天和明天我們跟廠商講好了一起開箱驗收我們會針對所有被爆料質疑的部分一項一項去檢驗所以要花兩天的時間那我想問一下就是說在這個爆料還沒有出現之前本來驗收的時間就是在大概這個時候嗎還是說現在是你們提早的驗收的時間\n最後就是今天因為還有一個今天的專案報告的主題是這個臺美的這個國防工業會議\n我還是在我剛才機密會議有講過就是台美這個國防工業會議是一個不對外公開的會議不對外公開的會議那我們現在在這邊講然後現在又是一個公開的場合對我來講是有點奇怪所以呢當然現在既然已經排了所以我們還是針對這個做質詢但是我問一些別的問題第一個我想要問的就是這個就是這個創新小組因為上次在上個會期快結束的時候有講到這個DIU那這個DIU目前的發展的狀況如何\n因為畢竟今天如果我們講這個跟台美這個國防工業會議要去洽談要去討論等等事情除了本來我們武器上面的一些需求等等之外在研發上面兩邊互相怎麼溝通我覺得DIU通常來講還是可以扮演一個蠻重要的角色那不知道現在DIU因為上次在問的時候是說現在正在廣納正在這個招募相關的這種新的人員那不知道現在的進度為何\n跟委員報告第一個是說我們在國內的部分就是我們現在跟國會、蘇華部、經濟部建立一個跨部會的一個平臺那就這個跨部會平臺呢我們會提出我們國軍的需求然後呢其他的部會透過補助國內的民間廠商他去做投入開發那開發之後呢或者直接就產生一個成熟的商品然後支持我們來做這樣子我們的一個戰力整建這樣子\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售涉虛報軍\n美國商務部長報告\n來進行這些無人機、無人載具的這些交流的這些活動我們透過這個然後自己本身做一些商品表演所以我們會以不同的項目需求的項目評估納入就來剛剛講還透過國內跨部會的合作模式我們進行研訓、開發科研或者是建案來籌貨這樣\n主席,再給我30秒,不好意思。因為DIU,剛剛有講到它跟印太等等之類相關的交流。因為交流畢竟還是需要預算。因為在之前2023年的時候,就有曾經動用過預備金去做這些相關的交流。\n我是想說因為現在預算書已經送出來了但是這方面的交流相關的預算的這個編列不知道現在的狀況如何但因為現在時間的關係已經到了所以這個不然我下次再繼續問那我之後可能我也先跟部長講一下後來想再問就也是跟這個工業有關就是因為畢竟我們這個FMF可以分成無償跟有償那現在拜登政府簽了這些無償的部分但我不知道美方到底有沒有無償以後轉有償的一些需求或想法那因為這個一定會\n謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.090 --> 00:01.927\n謝謝請國防部部長\n\n00:09.113 --> 00:14.358\n我先問一下這個翰翔的這件事情就是說因為我看到翰翔在2023年有說他導入這個CNMC就是美國這個公立院資安的相關的一個規範\n\n00:33.436 --> 01:02.173\n那目前是應用在F16的維修那這一個他說2026年美國當然是要求要全面實施那因為剛好這次漢翔出現了這個新聞爆炸的事項我就不再重複那因為畢竟這是落實的問題就是說因為我們宣稱說我們要符合這樣的一個規範但是符合這個規範以後呢那到底今天發生的事情呢有沒有在這一個相關的這個產業鏈安全的這個規範裡面那如果要落實的話以後我們要怎麼去說明可不可以請這一個說明一下謝謝\n\n01:03.567 --> 01:29.934\n各位很簡單報告第一個就是漢祥他洩漏在網路上的資料我們經過初步的查證沒有涉及軍事機密或國家機密所以他沒有違法的部分但是他在我們的合約保密條款裡面所有公務上的相關的資訊都不能在網路上洩漏所以我們才會裁罰他一百萬元這個純粹是就是工程師個人的行為目前我們界定是這個樣子所以我覺得這個也要小心因為畢竟我們已經開始要納入到產業鏈資安的規範\n\n01:31.855 --> 01:52.656\n對,他很想因為跟美國有一些零附件的一些合作所以他很希望能夠儘速導入CMMC那我們也在鼓勵中科院還有其他的相關要導入這個美國現在驅龍化的供應鏈的這些包括無人載具的系統也要希望能夠導入這個CMMC資安承受署的認證\n\n01:54.258 --> 02:22.886\n那剛好最近這個新聞也有報導就是說我們這個台灣媒體這個還是就是不是台灣媒體台灣媒體去引用這個其他的媒體說我們現在軍用品有這個中國製的產品那這個當然中科院我看到有一個初步的回應不過這件事情我覺得很奇怪就是說不管是國內的廠商有意見然後還是說有人去爆料為什麼有人爆料會先去新馬傳媒網去爆料這個對我來講也是一件非常詭異的事情你要爆料當然是台灣現在在場有那麼多媒體都可以爆料\n\n02:23.246 --> 02:49.951\n報料到海外然後在國內的媒體在引述這件事蠻奇怪的但即使他很奇怪但我們還是要正視這個問題那不知道現在這件事情的這個狀況是如何今天和明天我們跟廠商講好了一起開箱驗收我們會針對所有被爆料質疑的部分一項一項去檢驗所以要花兩天的時間那我想問一下就是說在這個爆料還沒有出現之前本來驗收的時間就是在大概這個時候嗎還是說現在是你們提早的驗收的時間\n\n02:51.004 --> 02:53.407\n最後就是今天因為還有一個今天的專案報告的主題是這個臺美的這個國防工業會議\n\n03:11.128 --> 03:39.350\n我還是在我剛才機密會議有講過就是台美這個國防工業會議是一個不對外公開的會議不對外公開的會議那我們現在在這邊講然後現在又是一個公開的場合對我來講是有點奇怪所以呢當然現在既然已經排了所以我們還是針對這個做質詢但是我問一些別的問題第一個我想要問的就是這個就是這個創新小組因為上次在上個會期快結束的時候有講到這個DIU那這個DIU目前的發展的狀況如何\n\n03:40.151 --> 04:03.655\n因為畢竟今天如果我們講這個跟台美這個國防工業會議要去洽談要去討論等等事情除了本來我們武器上面的一些需求等等之外在研發上面兩邊互相怎麼溝通我覺得DIU通常來講還是可以扮演一個蠻重要的角色那不知道現在DIU因為上次在問的時候是說現在正在廣納正在這個招募相關的這種新的人員那不知道現在的進度為何\n\n04:04.575 --> 04:32.423\n跟委員報告第一個是說我們在國內的部分就是我們現在跟國會、蘇華部、經濟部建立一個跨部會的一個平臺那就這個跨部會平臺呢我們會提出我們國軍的需求然後呢其他的部會透過補助國內的民間廠商他去做投入開發那開發之後呢或者直接就產生一個成熟的商品然後支持我們來做這樣子我們的一個戰力整建這樣子\n\n04:33.143 --> 04:34.565\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售涉虛報軍\n\n04:52.927 --> 04:53.087\n美國商務部長報告\n\n05:17.272 --> 05:37.450\n來進行這些無人機、無人載具的這些交流的這些活動我們透過這個然後自己本身做一些商品表演所以我們會以不同的項目需求的項目評估納入就來剛剛講還透過國內跨部會的合作模式我們進行研訓、開發科研或者是建案來籌貨這樣\n\n05:40.092 --> 05:54.364\n主席,再給我30秒,不好意思。因為DIU,剛剛有講到它跟印太等等之類相關的交流。因為交流畢竟還是需要預算。因為在之前2023年的時候,就有曾經動用過預備金去做這些相關的交流。\n\n05:55.345 --> 06:21.573\n我是想說因為現在預算書已經送出來了但是這方面的交流相關的預算的這個編列不知道現在的狀況如何但因為現在時間的關係已經到了所以這個不然我下次再繼續問那我之後可能我也先跟部長講一下後來想再問就也是跟這個工業有關就是因為畢竟我們這個FMF可以分成無償跟有償那現在拜登政府簽了這些無償的部分但我不知道美方到底有沒有無償以後轉有償的一些需求或想法那因為這個一定會\n\n06:22.293 --> 06:22.493\n謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.09,"end":1.927,"text":"謝謝請國防部部長"},{"start":9.113,"end":14.358,"text":"我先問一下這個翰翔的這件事情就是說因為我看到翰翔在2023年有說他導入這個CNMC就是美國這個公立院資安的相關的一個規範"},{"start":33.436,"end":62.173,"text":"那目前是應用在F16的維修那這一個他說2026年美國當然是要求要全面實施那因為剛好這次漢翔出現了這個新聞爆炸的事項我就不再重複那因為畢竟這是落實的問題就是說因為我們宣稱說我們要符合這樣的一個規範但是符合這個規範以後呢那到底今天發生的事情呢有沒有在這一個相關的這個產業鏈安全的這個規範裡面那如果要落實的話以後我們要怎麼去說明可不可以請這一個說明一下謝謝"},{"start":63.567,"end":89.934,"text":"各位很簡單報告第一個就是漢祥他洩漏在網路上的資料我們經過初步的查證沒有涉及軍事機密或國家機密所以他沒有違法的部分但是他在我們的合約保密條款裡面所有公務上的相關的資訊都不能在網路上洩漏所以我們才會裁罰他一百萬元這個純粹是就是工程師個人的行為目前我們界定是這個樣子所以我覺得這個也要小心因為畢竟我們已經開始要納入到產業鏈資安的規範"},{"start":91.855,"end":112.656,"text":"對,他很想因為跟美國有一些零附件的一些合作所以他很希望能夠儘速導入CMMC那我們也在鼓勵中科院還有其他的相關要導入這個美國現在驅龍化的供應鏈的這些包括無人載具的系統也要希望能夠導入這個CMMC資安承受署的認證"},{"start":114.258,"end":142.886,"text":"那剛好最近這個新聞也有報導就是說我們這個台灣媒體這個還是就是不是台灣媒體台灣媒體去引用這個其他的媒體說我們現在軍用品有這個中國製的產品那這個當然中科院我看到有一個初步的回應不過這件事情我覺得很奇怪就是說不管是國內的廠商有意見然後還是說有人去爆料為什麼有人爆料會先去新馬傳媒網去爆料這個對我來講也是一件非常詭異的事情你要爆料當然是台灣現在在場有那麼多媒體都可以爆料"},{"start":143.246,"end":169.951,"text":"報料到海外然後在國內的媒體在引述這件事蠻奇怪的但即使他很奇怪但我們還是要正視這個問題那不知道現在這件事情的這個狀況是如何今天和明天我們跟廠商講好了一起開箱驗收我們會針對所有被爆料質疑的部分一項一項去檢驗所以要花兩天的時間那我想問一下就是說在這個爆料還沒有出現之前本來驗收的時間就是在大概這個時候嗎還是說現在是你們提早的驗收的時間"},{"start":171.004,"end":173.407,"text":"最後就是今天因為還有一個今天的專案報告的主題是這個臺美的這個國防工業會議"},{"start":191.128,"end":219.35,"text":"我還是在我剛才機密會議有講過就是台美這個國防工業會議是一個不對外公開的會議不對外公開的會議那我們現在在這邊講然後現在又是一個公開的場合對我來講是有點奇怪所以呢當然現在既然已經排了所以我們還是針對這個做質詢但是我問一些別的問題第一個我想要問的就是這個就是這個創新小組因為上次在上個會期快結束的時候有講到這個DIU那這個DIU目前的發展的狀況如何"},{"start":220.151,"end":243.655,"text":"因為畢竟今天如果我們講這個跟台美這個國防工業會議要去洽談要去討論等等事情除了本來我們武器上面的一些需求等等之外在研發上面兩邊互相怎麼溝通我覺得DIU通常來講還是可以扮演一個蠻重要的角色那不知道現在DIU因為上次在問的時候是說現在正在廣納正在這個招募相關的這種新的人員那不知道現在的進度為何"},{"start":244.575,"end":272.423,"text":"跟委員報告第一個是說我們在國內的部分就是我們現在跟國會、蘇華部、經濟部建立一個跨部會的一個平臺那就這個跨部會平臺呢我們會提出我們國軍的需求然後呢其他的部會透過補助國內的民間廠商他去做投入開發那開發之後呢或者直接就產生一個成熟的商品然後支持我們來做這樣子我們的一個戰力整建這樣子"},{"start":273.143,"end":274.565,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售涉虛報軍"},{"start":292.927,"end":293.087,"text":"美國商務部長報告"},{"start":317.272,"end":337.45,"text":"來進行這些無人機、無人載具的這些交流的這些活動我們透過這個然後自己本身做一些商品表演所以我們會以不同的項目需求的項目評估納入就來剛剛講還透過國內跨部會的合作模式我們進行研訓、開發科研或者是建案來籌貨這樣"},{"start":340.092,"end":354.364,"text":"主席,再給我30秒,不好意思。因為DIU,剛剛有講到它跟印太等等之類相關的交流。因為交流畢竟還是需要預算。因為在之前2023年的時候,就有曾經動用過預備金去做這些相關的交流。"},{"start":355.345,"end":381.573,"text":"我是想說因為現在預算書已經送出來了但是這方面的交流相關的預算的這個編列不知道現在的狀況如何但因為現在時間的關係已經到了所以這個不然我下次再繼續問那我之後可能我也先跟部長講一下後來想再問就也是跟這個工業有關就是因為畢竟我們這個FMF可以分成無償跟有償那現在拜登政府簽了這些無償的部分但我不知道美方到底有沒有無償以後轉有償的一些需求或想法那因為這個一定會"},{"start":382.293,"end":382.493,"text":"謝謝主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:44:29 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09:51:12","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長報告一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢。二、「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢。【機密】）","id":155089,"gazette":{"lineno":91,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（9時44分）謝謝主席，有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：沈委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：部長好。不好意思，剛剛的機密質詢花太多時間，我看我只剩下一點點時間，所以有些我可能會跳過，沒有想到剛剛我會花那麼多時間。","這個我就先跳過好了。我先問一下漢翔的這件事情，因為我看到漢翔在2023年說要導入CMMC，就是美國供應鏈資安的相關規範，目前是應用在F-16的維修上，並說2026年美國會要求全面實施。因為剛好這次漢翔出現了這個新聞報載的事項，我就不再重複，畢竟這是落實的問題。我們宣稱說要符合這樣的一個規範，但符合這個規範以後，今天發生的事情到底有沒有在這個相關產業鏈的安全規範裡面？如果要落實的話，以後我們要怎麼去說明，可不可以請你說明一下？謝謝。"],["李院長世強：跟委員很簡單地報告，第一個就是，漢翔洩漏在網路上的資料，我們經過初步地查證，沒有涉及軍事機密或國家機密……"],["沈委員伯洋：這個我知道。"],["李院長世強：所以它沒有違法的部分，但是它在我們合約保密條款裡面，所有公務上的相關資訊都不能在網路上洩漏，所以我們才會裁罰它100萬元。"],["沈委員伯洋：這是就行為的部分。"],["李院長世強：這個純粹是工程師個人的行為，目前我們的界定是這個樣子。"],["沈委員伯洋：OK，所以我覺得這個以後要小心，因為畢竟我們已經開始要納入到產業鏈的資安規範了。"],["顧部長立雄：對，漢翔因為跟美國有一些零附件的合作，所以它希望能夠儘速導入CMMC，我們也在鼓勵中科院還有其他相關要打入美國現在去紅化供應鏈的這些，包括無人載具的系統，也希望能夠導入這個CMMC資安成熟度的認證。"],["沈委員伯洋：剛好最近新聞也有報導，臺灣的媒體還是……也不是臺灣媒體，而是臺灣媒體去引用其他媒體，指出我們現在的軍用品有中國製的產品，當然，我看到中科院也有了初步的回應。不過這件事情我覺得很奇怪，不管是國內的廠商有意見，還是有人去爆料，為什麼有人會先去金馬傳媒網爆料？這個對我來講也是一件非常詭異的事情，你要爆料，臺灣現在在場有那麼多家媒體都可以爆料，結果卻爆料到海外，然後國內的媒體再引述，這件事情是滿奇怪的。但即使它很奇怪，我們還是要正視這個問題，不知道這件事情的狀況是如何？"],["李院長世強：今天和明天我們跟廠商講好要一起開箱驗收，我們會針對所有被爆料質疑的部分，一項、一項去檢驗，所以要花兩天的時間。"],["沈委員伯洋：那我想問一下，在這個爆料還沒有出現之前，本來驗收的時間就是大概在這個時候嗎？還是你們提早了驗收的時間？"],["李院長世強：報告委員，是上個禮拜交貨，剛好遇到颱風，所以才會延到今天和明天兩天。"],["沈委員伯洋：所以本來就是在這個時候要驗收？"],["李院長世強：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：那海外的這個爆料就等於是在驗收之前他去做這件事情？"],["李院長世強：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，那我大概瞭解了。最後，今天的專案報告因為還有一個主題是臺美的國防工業會議，我還是這樣，因為在剛才的機密會議有講過，就是臺美的這個國防工業會議是一個不對外公開的會議，我們現在在這邊講，而現在又是一個公開的場合，對我來講是有點奇怪的。既然今天已經排了，所以我還是針對這個做質詢，但我會問一些別的問題。","第一個我想要問的就是這個創新小組，因為上次在上個會期快結束的時候有講到DIU，這個DIU目前發展的狀況如何？因為畢竟，我們今天講到這個臺美國防工業會議，要去洽談、要去討論等等事情，除了本來我們在武器上的需求等等之外，在研發上面，兩邊互相怎麼溝通？我覺得DIU通常還是可以扮演一個滿重要的角色，不知道現在DIU……因為上次在問的時候是說，現在正在廣納、正在招募相關的新的人員，不知道現在的進度為何？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，第一個，我們在國內的部分就是，我們現在跟國科會、數發部、經濟部建立了一個跨部會的平台，就這個跨部會的平台，我們會提出國軍的需求，然後其他的部會透過補助國內的民間廠商去做投入、開發，開發之後，或者直接就產製一個成熟的商品，支持我們來做這樣的一個戰力整建。","這個跨平台的部分已經成立，現在跟印太司令部的科學及技術處，還有美國國防部的國防創新單位，也就是DIU已經建立了交流的機制，我們會共同分享哪些可以應用的民間技術的成果跟經驗，這個部分已經有一個交流的計畫。","另外，進一步，我們已經召集了聯參跟各軍種來檢視未來戰力軍艦的需求，所以結合國內外商情，就是現在透過美國的協助等等的國內外商情，上次你也看到美國的商務部也率團過來，進行這些無人機、無人載具的交流活動，我們透過這個，再加上自己本身所做的商情調研，會依不同的需求項目，評估納入……就像剛剛講的，會透過國內跨部會的合作模式，我們會進行開發科研，或者是建案籌獲。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝，主席再給我30秒，不好意思。因為剛剛有講到，DIU跟印太等等之類有一些相關的交流，交流畢竟還是需要預算。之前在2023年的時候，就曾經動用過預備金去做這些相關的交流。我是想說，因為現在預算書已經送出來了，但是這方面交流的相關預算編列不知道現在的狀況如何？現在因為時間的關係，已經到了，不然這個我下次再繼續問，我也先跟部長講一下我之後想再問的，也是跟這個工業有關的。畢竟這個FMF可以分成無償跟有償，現在拜登政府所簽無償的部分，我不知道美方到底有沒有無償以後轉有償的一些需求或想法。因為這個一定會導致我們國防預算……如果有這樣的話，我們要怎麼因應，或是國防預算可能應該要怎麼做，這可能是明年度的事情，我之後可能也想針對這個問題來詢問，但是因為時間的關係，我可能就先問到這邊。"],["顧部長立雄：迄今為止美方承諾的FMF原則上都是無償的。"],["沈委員伯洋：都是無償的。"],["顧部長立雄：對，都是無償的。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員，部長請回。","下一位請羅美玲委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","speakers":["林憶君","黃仁","沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","徐巧芯","王定宇","林楚茵","陳永康","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林國成","黃國昌","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張啓楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告：一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢；二、\n「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢【機\n密】","agenda_id":"1137901_00005"}}}