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00:00:30,515\n中國在今年的兩會期間宣布編列軍事預算是人民幣一兆六千多億,也就是年增了7.2%。中國創新高的軍事預算讓周遭很多國家都倍感壓力,所以也都紛紛提高了國防的預算。\n\n3\n00:00:32,236 --> 00:00:33,457\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n\n4\n00:00:56,912 --> 00:00:56,952\n﹚羅美玲議員\n\n5\n00:01:11,989 --> 00:01:12,009\n請問部長\n\n6\n00:01:35,986 --> 00:02:02,582\n我們主要是新增案的部分因為新增案的部分影響比較大那新增案的部分對於在我們建國不對稱戰力還有後備戰力的這個部分有相當的琢磨所以我們當然很希望就是說這些新增案的部分不會因為這個總預算案的被封殺那因此使得我們沒有辦法有任何的新增案那當然潛艦也是其中的一部分\n\n7\n00:02:03,522 --> 00:02:19,929\n那現在這怎麼辦呢?部長這部分有跟在野黨的委員做溝通嗎?整理了總預算案當然我們希望行政院能夠出面然後來跟在野黨做溝通那我們對於我們自己國防預算的部分呢?\n\n8\n00:02:20,868 --> 00:02:49,221\n國防預算的部分都現在新政幹沒有辦法能夠就是國防預算如果卡關的話那等於我們的新政幹沒有辦法的話那我們一些包括剛剛比如說快速布雷艇、新型步槍這些等等那甚至民雄航太的無人機產業園區開發也都會受到影響這整體的來講當然對我們整個國家安全來講應該是會有一些重大的影響\n\n9\n00:02:50,041 --> 00:03:17,693\n所以這部分的話除了是要跟在野黨的委員溝通之外我想這部分也應該要跟國人來做說明好那再來還有一點就是進入到今天的這個主題台美國防工業會議那這個會議是由我們國防部的副部長徐副部長的率團來做出席然後在這個會議當中副部長還有胡理美方應該要儘速來協助台灣建立關鍵性的武力那其中包括讓\n\n10\n00:03:18,473 --> 00:03:21,136\n此外,我們也看到了美國國防部印太安全部首席\n\n11\n00:03:35,553 --> 00:03:54,307\n副助理部長威爾提到美國近期將會組成印太地區產業任性夥伴台灣在其中會扮演重要的角色與此同時美國也在9月22跟25當中有無人機廠商在AIT的牽線之下來跟台灣的無人機產業跟中科業來\n\n12\n00:04:01,232 --> 00:04:27,654\n所以我們可以看得到說這種種的跡象再來還有9月30號9月30號像這個奧克拉荷馬州的這個官員也率領了這個十多家的無人機的這個相關廠商來拜訪台灣跟台灣的這個無人機聯盟簽署了無人機產業國際脫銷合作備忘錄所以從這種種的跡象看來我們是不是有機會爭取加入美國飛鴻供應鏈了請問\n\n13\n00:04:30,396 --> 00:04:30,476\n90%以上?\n\n14\n00:04:55,811 --> 00:04:57,112\n對整個這個就是因為他這個裡面\n\n15\n00:05:22,334 --> 00:05:22,575\n中科院議員\n\n16\n00:05:42,854 --> 00:05:55,727\n我們的確是有很多案子目前正在洽談中但是細節就因為都有簽了保密協定也不便透露但是我們的確是有機會也有這個潛力加入這樣的國民電\n\n17\n00:05:57,331 --> 00:06:17,291\n從美國最近的態度來看,從他發表的言論裡面,其實美國對台灣的創新能力其實是非常的肯定。所以也就是說,其實我們應該是,台美軍工產業合作應該已經初步來講是成型了嘛。所以加入這個飛鴻供應鏈其實應該是值得可待嘛,是不是?\n\n18\n00:06:20,284 --> 00:06:47,701\n首先,這應該是美國在大力推動的一個政策這個是政策形成接下來就是說要如何來打造這是一個當然有一個現實的狀況是有很多在中國製造的原件確實是比較便宜所以如何能夠要把它costdown就是說成本能夠降低這個是大家現在要來思考的一個課題但是這個政策已經形成了\n\n19\n00:06:47,841 --> 00:06:49,162\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為：羅美玲\n\n20\n00:07:13,201 --> 00:07:16,282\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n21\n00:07:30,227 --> 00:07:58,046\n好的,謝謝,了解再來就要提到漢祥了剛剛我們沈國陽委員也有提到漢祥當然之前就是爆出工程師在這個公開社群的這個帳號多次分享國際國造的這個機密的資料當然經過調查之後我們是核定就是說國防部有核定說這些就沒有涉及這個我們涉密的這個工項可是它是屬於重大的這個違規\n\n22\n00:08:00,708 --> 00:08:25,744\n當然這個漢翔後來還是被罰了這個一百萬那我這邊要提到的就是說我剛剛有提到像奧克拉荷馬州在9月30號的時候其實有跟這個我國的無人機聯盟簽署了一個MOU這個聯盟的主席就是誰呢這主席就是漢翔航空工業有限公司的董事長好那類似這樣子他們公司又出了這個包那會不會讓這個美國對於\n\n23\n00:08:30,447 --> 00:08:59,453\n台灣在這保密方面的有所質疑的這會影響我想美國也好或者是其他有門國家也好或者我們自己本身也好我們要做一個比較更詳盡的一個不管是在這個資安面或者是在人員的查核安全查核面上面都需要來更加強這個是應該我們要努力再去做到的\n\n24\n00:08:59,933 --> 00:09:19,930\n是的,因為像漢祥這些秘案我們再來對照回來我們國防供應鏈其實我們有所謂的保密機制其實剛剛律師博士也有提到所以在2017年的時候我們為了要推動國防自主跟國防科技供應所以其實我們有比照美國建立了國防科技安全\n\n25\n00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:28,072\n﹑針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍\n\n26\n00:09:49,677 --> 00:09:50,197\n我們要加入美國的國防的供應鏈\n\n27\n00:10:16,576 --> 00:10:41,129\n其實台灣的國防產業你就要加入、導入CMMC像美國國防部的推動CMMC呢2025年的時候預計就要來生效了2026年的9月之後呢美國國防部他就會在採購案就要強制來要求承包廠商你必須取得這個認證那我們台灣準備好了嗎我們有導入這方面的這個機制嗎請問部長\n\n28\n00:10:43,407 --> 00:11:01,041\n跟委員報告就是說漢祥或者是中科院都應該要當領頭羊來努力來達成需要的一個要求那現在另外比較大的部分是另外有一些私人的私領域的這些產業\n\n29\n00:11:02,302 --> 00:11:02,522\n：羅美玲\n\n30\n00:11:32,462 --> 00:11:32,522\n：羅美玲\n\n31\n00:11:53,993 --> 00:11:55,354\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n32\n00:12:15,986 --> 00:12:16,626\n美國是認同這個部分的嗎?\n\n33\n00:12:42,352 --> 00:13:02,987\n美國承諾會盡量來...會盡量來...對,我們比較擔心的就是說如果沒有拿到CMMC的這個認證你就拿不到美國的這個訂單這是讓我們比較擔心的部分所以這樣我們都已經參與了一系列的這個美國工業這個會議那當然這部分我也希望就是說能夠就是說\n\n34\n00:13:03,707 --> 00:13:03,747\n：羅美玲\n\n35\n00:13:26,175 --> 00:13:26,456\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1130\t3211\t謝謝主席,有請顧部長。請顧部長。對,羅委員好。\n12688\t30515\t中國在今年的兩會期間宣布編列軍事預算是人民幣一兆六千多億,也就是年增了7.2%。中國創新高的軍事預算讓周遭很多國家都倍感壓力,所以也都紛紛提高了國防的預算。\n32236\t33457\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n56912\t56952\t﹚羅美玲議員\n71989\t72009\t請問部長\n95986\t122582\t我們主要是新增案的部分因為新增案的部分影響比較大那新增案的部分對於在我們建國不對稱戰力還有後備戰力的這個部分有相當的琢磨所以我們當然很希望就是說這些新增案的部分不會因為這個總預算案的被封殺那因此使得我們沒有辦法有任何的新增案那當然潛艦也是其中的一部分\n123522\t139929\t那現在這怎麼辦呢?部長這部分有跟在野黨的委員做溝通嗎?整理了總預算案當然我們希望行政院能夠出面然後來跟在野黨做溝通那我們對於我們自己國防預算的部分呢?\n140868\t169221\t國防預算的部分都現在新政幹沒有辦法能夠就是國防預算如果卡關的話那等於我們的新政幹沒有辦法的話那我們一些包括剛剛比如說快速布雷艇、新型步槍這些等等那甚至民雄航太的無人機產業園區開發也都會受到影響這整體的來講當然對我們整個國家安全來講應該是會有一些重大的影響\n170041\t197693\t所以這部分的話除了是要跟在野黨的委員溝通之外我想這部分也應該要跟國人來做說明好那再來還有一點就是進入到今天的這個主題台美國防工業會議那這個會議是由我們國防部的副部長徐副部長的率團來做出席然後在這個會議當中副部長還有胡理美方應該要儘速來協助台灣建立關鍵性的武力那其中包括讓\n198473\t201136\t此外,我們也看到了美國國防部印太安全部首席\n215553\t234307\t副助理部長威爾提到美國近期將會組成印太地區產業任性夥伴台灣在其中會扮演重要的角色與此同時美國也在9月22跟25當中有無人機廠商在AIT的牽線之下來跟台灣的無人機產業跟中科業來\n241232\t267654\t所以我們可以看得到說這種種的跡象再來還有9月30號9月30號像這個奧克拉荷馬州的這個官員也率領了這個十多家的無人機的這個相關廠商來拜訪台灣跟台灣的這個無人機聯盟簽署了無人機產業國際脫銷合作備忘錄所以從這種種的跡象看來我們是不是有機會爭取加入美國飛鴻供應鏈了請問\n270396\t270476\t90%以上?\n295811\t297112\t對整個這個就是因為他這個裡面\n322334\t322575\t中科院議員\n342854\t355727\t我們的確是有很多案子目前正在洽談中但是細節就因為都有簽了保密協定也不便透露但是我們的確是有機會也有這個潛力加入這樣的國民電\n357331\t377291\t從美國最近的態度來看,從他發表的言論裡面,其實美國對台灣的創新能力其實是非常的肯定。所以也就是說,其實我們應該是,台美軍工產業合作應該已經初步來講是成型了嘛。所以加入這個飛鴻供應鏈其實應該是值得可待嘛,是不是?\n380284\t407701\t首先,這應該是美國在大力推動的一個政策這個是政策形成接下來就是說要如何來打造這是一個當然有一個現實的狀況是有很多在中國製造的原件確實是比較便宜所以如何能夠要把它cost down就是說成本能夠降低這個是大家現在要來思考的一個課題但是這個政策已經形成了\n407841\t409162\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為：羅美玲\n433201\t436282\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n450227\t478046\t好的,謝謝,了解再來就要提到漢祥了剛剛我們沈國陽委員也有提到漢祥當然之前就是爆出工程師在這個公開社群的這個帳號多次分享國際國造的這個機密的資料當然經過調查之後我們是核定就是說國防部有核定說這些就沒有涉及這個我們涉密的這個工項可是它是屬於重大的這個違規\n480708\t505744\t當然這個漢翔後來還是被罰了這個一百萬那我這邊要提到的就是說我剛剛有提到像奧克拉荷馬州在9月30號的時候其實有跟這個我國的無人機聯盟簽署了一個MOU這個聯盟的主席就是誰呢這主席就是漢翔航空工業有限公司的董事長好那類似這樣子他們公司又出了這個包那會不會讓這個美國對於\n510447\t539453\t台灣在這保密方面的有所質疑的這會影響我想美國也好或者是其他有門國家也好或者我們自己本身也好我們要做一個比較更詳盡的一個不管是在這個資安面或者是在人員的查核安全查核面上面都需要來更加強這個是應該我們要努力再去做到的\n539933\t559930\t是的,因為像漢祥這些秘案我們再來對照回來我們國防供應鏈其實我們有所謂的保密機制其實剛剛律師博士也有提到所以在2017年的時候我們為了要推動國防自主跟國防科技供應所以其實我們有比照美國建立了國防科技安全\n560470\t568072\t﹑針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍\n589677\t590197\t我們要加入美國的國防的供應鏈\n616576\t641129\t其實台灣的國防產業你就要加入、導入CMMC像美國國防部的推動CMMC呢2025年的時候預計就要來生效了2026年的9月之後呢美國國防部他就會在採購案就要強制來要求承包廠商你必須取得這個認證那我們台灣準備好了嗎我們有導入這方面的這個機制嗎請問部長\n643407\t661041\t跟委員報告就是說漢祥或者是中科院都應該要當領頭羊來努力來達成需要的一個要求那現在另外比較大的部分是另外有一些私人的私領域的這些產業\n662302\t662522\t：羅美玲\n692462\t692522\t：羅美玲\n713993\t715354\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n735986\t736626\t美國是認同這個部分的嗎?\n762352\t782987\t美國承諾會盡量來...會盡量來...對,我們比較擔心的就是說如果沒有拿到CMMC的這個認證你就拿不到美國的這個訂單這是讓我們比較擔心的部分所以這樣我們都已經參與了一系列的這個美國工業這個會議那當然這部分我也希望就是說能夠就是說\n783707\t783747\t：羅美玲\n806175\t806456\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請顧部長。請顧部長。對,羅委員好。\n中國在今年的兩會期間宣布編列軍事預算是人民幣一兆六千多億,也就是年增了7.2%。中國創新高的軍事預算讓周遭很多國家都倍感壓力,所以也都紛紛提高了國防的預算。\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n﹚羅美玲議員\n請問部長\n我們主要是新增案的部分因為新增案的部分影響比較大那新增案的部分對於在我們建國不對稱戰力還有後備戰力的這個部分有相當的琢磨所以我們當然很希望就是說這些新增案的部分不會因為這個總預算案的被封殺那因此使得我們沒有辦法有任何的新增案那當然潛艦也是其中的一部分\n那現在這怎麼辦呢?部長這部分有跟在野黨的委員做溝通嗎?整理了總預算案當然我們希望行政院能夠出面然後來跟在野黨做溝通那我們對於我們自己國防預算的部分呢?\n國防預算的部分都現在新政幹沒有辦法能夠就是國防預算如果卡關的話那等於我們的新政幹沒有辦法的話那我們一些包括剛剛比如說快速布雷艇、新型步槍這些等等那甚至民雄航太的無人機產業園區開發也都會受到影響這整體的來講當然對我們整個國家安全來講應該是會有一些重大的影響\n所以這部分的話除了是要跟在野黨的委員溝通之外我想這部分也應該要跟國人來做說明好那再來還有一點就是進入到今天的這個主題台美國防工業會議那這個會議是由我們國防部的副部長徐副部長的率團來做出席然後在這個會議當中副部長還有胡理美方應該要儘速來協助台灣建立關鍵性的武力那其中包括讓\n此外,我們也看到了美國國防部印太安全部首席\n副助理部長威爾提到美國近期將會組成印太地區產業任性夥伴台灣在其中會扮演重要的角色與此同時美國也在9月22跟25當中有無人機廠商在AIT的牽線之下來跟台灣的無人機產業跟中科業來\n所以我們可以看得到說這種種的跡象再來還有9月30號9月30號像這個奧克拉荷馬州的這個官員也率領了這個十多家的無人機的這個相關廠商來拜訪台灣跟台灣的這個無人機聯盟簽署了無人機產業國際脫銷合作備忘錄所以從這種種的跡象看來我們是不是有機會爭取加入美國飛鴻供應鏈了請問\n90%以上?\n對整個這個就是因為他這個裡面\n中科院議員\n我們的確是有很多案子目前正在洽談中但是細節就因為都有簽了保密協定也不便透露但是我們的確是有機會也有這個潛力加入這樣的國民電\n從美國最近的態度來看,從他發表的言論裡面,其實美國對台灣的創新能力其實是非常的肯定。所以也就是說,其實我們應該是,台美軍工產業合作應該已經初步來講是成型了嘛。所以加入這個飛鴻供應鏈其實應該是值得可待嘛,是不是?\n首先,這應該是美國在大力推動的一個政策這個是政策形成接下來就是說要如何來打造這是一個當然有一個現實的狀況是有很多在中國製造的原件確實是比較便宜所以如何能夠要把它cost down就是說成本能夠降低這個是大家現在要來思考的一個課題但是這個政策已經形成了\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為：羅美玲\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n好的,謝謝,了解再來就要提到漢祥了剛剛我們沈國陽委員也有提到漢祥當然之前就是爆出工程師在這個公開社群的這個帳號多次分享國際國造的這個機密的資料當然經過調查之後我們是核定就是說國防部有核定說這些就沒有涉及這個我們涉密的這個工項可是它是屬於重大的這個違規\n當然這個漢翔後來還是被罰了這個一百萬那我這邊要提到的就是說我剛剛有提到像奧克拉荷馬州在9月30號的時候其實有跟這個我國的無人機聯盟簽署了一個MOU這個聯盟的主席就是誰呢這主席就是漢翔航空工業有限公司的董事長好那類似這樣子他們公司又出了這個包那會不會讓這個美國對於\n台灣在這保密方面的有所質疑的這會影響我想美國也好或者是其他有門國家也好或者我們自己本身也好我們要做一個比較更詳盡的一個不管是在這個資安面或者是在人員的查核安全查核面上面都需要來更加強這個是應該我們要努力再去做到的\n是的,因為像漢祥這些秘案我們再來對照回來我們國防供應鏈其實我們有所謂的保密機制其實剛剛律師博士也有提到所以在2017年的時候我們為了要推動國防自主跟國防科技供應所以其實我們有比照美國建立了國防科技安全\n﹑針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍\n我們要加入美國的國防的供應鏈\n其實台灣的國防產業你就要加入、導入CMMC像美國國防部的推動CMMC呢2025年的時候預計就要來生效了2026年的9月之後呢美國國防部他就會在採購案就要強制來要求承包廠商你必須取得這個認證那我們台灣準備好了嗎我們有導入這方面的這個機制嗎請問部長\n跟委員報告就是說漢祥或者是中科院都應該要當領頭羊來努力來達成需要的一個要求那現在另外比較大的部分是另外有一些私人的私領域的這些產業\n：羅美玲\n：羅美玲\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n美國是認同這個部分的嗎?\n美國承諾會盡量來...會盡量來...對,我們比較擔心的就是說如果沒有拿到CMMC的這個認證你就拿不到美國的這個訂單這是讓我們比較擔心的部分所以這樣我們都已經參與了一系列的這個美國工業這個會議那當然這部分我也希望就是說能夠就是說\n：羅美玲\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.130 --> 00:03.211\n謝謝主席,有請顧部長。請顧部長。對,羅委員好。\n\n00:12.688 --> 00:30.515\n中國在今年的兩會期間宣布編列軍事預算是人民幣一兆六千多億,也就是年增了7.2%。中國創新高的軍事預算讓周遭很多國家都倍感壓力,所以也都紛紛提高了國防的預算。\n\n00:32.236 --> 00:33.457\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n\n00:56.912 --> 00:56.952\n﹚羅美玲議員\n\n01:11.989 --> 01:12.009\n請問部長\n\n01:35.986 --> 02:02.582\n我們主要是新增案的部分因為新增案的部分影響比較大那新增案的部分對於在我們建國不對稱戰力還有後備戰力的這個部分有相當的琢磨所以我們當然很希望就是說這些新增案的部分不會因為這個總預算案的被封殺那因此使得我們沒有辦法有任何的新增案那當然潛艦也是其中的一部分\n\n02:03.522 --> 02:19.929\n那現在這怎麼辦呢?部長這部分有跟在野黨的委員做溝通嗎?整理了總預算案當然我們希望行政院能夠出面然後來跟在野黨做溝通那我們對於我們自己國防預算的部分呢?\n\n02:20.868 --> 02:49.221\n國防預算的部分都現在新政幹沒有辦法能夠就是國防預算如果卡關的話那等於我們的新政幹沒有辦法的話那我們一些包括剛剛比如說快速布雷艇、新型步槍這些等等那甚至民雄航太的無人機產業園區開發也都會受到影響這整體的來講當然對我們整個國家安全來講應該是會有一些重大的影響\n\n02:50.041 --> 03:17.693\n所以這部分的話除了是要跟在野黨的委員溝通之外我想這部分也應該要跟國人來做說明好那再來還有一點就是進入到今天的這個主題台美國防工業會議那這個會議是由我們國防部的副部長徐副部長的率團來做出席然後在這個會議當中副部長還有胡理美方應該要儘速來協助台灣建立關鍵性的武力那其中包括讓\n\n03:18.473 --> 03:21.136\n此外,我們也看到了美國國防部印太安全部首席\n\n03:35.553 --> 03:54.307\n副助理部長威爾提到美國近期將會組成印太地區產業任性夥伴台灣在其中會扮演重要的角色與此同時美國也在9月22跟25當中有無人機廠商在AIT的牽線之下來跟台灣的無人機產業跟中科業來\n\n04:01.232 --> 04:27.654\n所以我們可以看得到說這種種的跡象再來還有9月30號9月30號像這個奧克拉荷馬州的這個官員也率領了這個十多家的無人機的這個相關廠商來拜訪台灣跟台灣的這個無人機聯盟簽署了無人機產業國際脫銷合作備忘錄所以從這種種的跡象看來我們是不是有機會爭取加入美國飛鴻供應鏈了請問\n\n04:30.396 --> 04:30.476\n90%以上?\n\n04:55.811 --> 04:57.112\n對整個這個就是因為他這個裡面\n\n05:22.334 --> 05:22.575\n中科院議員\n\n05:42.854 --> 05:55.727\n我們的確是有很多案子目前正在洽談中但是細節就因為都有簽了保密協定也不便透露但是我們的確是有機會也有這個潛力加入這樣的國民電\n\n05:57.331 --> 06:17.291\n從美國最近的態度來看,從他發表的言論裡面,其實美國對台灣的創新能力其實是非常的肯定。所以也就是說,其實我們應該是,台美軍工產業合作應該已經初步來講是成型了嘛。所以加入這個飛鴻供應鏈其實應該是值得可待嘛,是不是?\n\n06:20.284 --> 06:47.701\n首先,這應該是美國在大力推動的一個政策這個是政策形成接下來就是說要如何來打造這是一個當然有一個現實的狀況是有很多在中國製造的原件確實是比較便宜所以如何能夠要把它costdown就是說成本能夠降低這個是大家現在要來思考的一個課題但是這個政策已經形成了\n\n06:47.841 --> 06:49.162\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為：羅美玲\n\n07:13.201 --> 07:16.282\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n07:30.227 --> 07:58.046\n好的,謝謝,了解再來就要提到漢祥了剛剛我們沈國陽委員也有提到漢祥當然之前就是爆出工程師在這個公開社群的這個帳號多次分享國際國造的這個機密的資料當然經過調查之後我們是核定就是說國防部有核定說這些就沒有涉及這個我們涉密的這個工項可是它是屬於重大的這個違規\n\n08:00.708 --> 08:25.744\n當然這個漢翔後來還是被罰了這個一百萬那我這邊要提到的就是說我剛剛有提到像奧克拉荷馬州在9月30號的時候其實有跟這個我國的無人機聯盟簽署了一個MOU這個聯盟的主席就是誰呢這主席就是漢翔航空工業有限公司的董事長好那類似這樣子他們公司又出了這個包那會不會讓這個美國對於\n\n08:30.447 --> 08:59.453\n台灣在這保密方面的有所質疑的這會影響我想美國也好或者是其他有門國家也好或者我們自己本身也好我們要做一個比較更詳盡的一個不管是在這個資安面或者是在人員的查核安全查核面上面都需要來更加強這個是應該我們要努力再去做到的\n\n08:59.933 --> 09:19.930\n是的,因為像漢祥這些秘案我們再來對照回來我們國防供應鏈其實我們有所謂的保密機制其實剛剛律師博士也有提到所以在2017年的時候我們為了要推動國防自主跟國防科技供應所以其實我們有比照美國建立了國防科技安全\n\n09:20.470 --> 09:28.072\n﹑針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍\n\n09:49.677 --> 09:50.197\n我們要加入美國的國防的供應鏈\n\n10:16.576 --> 10:41.129\n其實台灣的國防產業你就要加入、導入CMMC像美國國防部的推動CMMC呢2025年的時候預計就要來生效了2026年的9月之後呢美國國防部他就會在採購案就要強制來要求承包廠商你必須取得這個認證那我們台灣準備好了嗎我們有導入這方面的這個機制嗎請問部長\n\n10:43.407 --> 11:01.041\n跟委員報告就是說漢祥或者是中科院都應該要當領頭羊來努力來達成需要的一個要求那現在另外比較大的部分是另外有一些私人的私領域的這些產業\n\n11:02.302 --> 11:02.522\n：羅美玲\n\n11:32.462 --> 11:32.522\n：羅美玲\n\n11:53.993 --> 11:55.354\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n12:15.986 --> 12:16.626\n美國是認同這個部分的嗎?\n\n12:42.352 --> 13:02.987\n美國承諾會盡量來...會盡量來...對,我們比較擔心的就是說如果沒有拿到CMMC的這個認證你就拿不到美國的這個訂單這是讓我們比較擔心的部分所以這樣我們都已經參與了一系列的這個美國工業這個會議那當然這部分我也希望就是說能夠就是說\n\n13:03.707 --> 13:03.747\n：羅美玲\n\n13:26.175 --> 13:26.456\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.13,"end":3.211,"text":"謝謝主席,有請顧部長。請顧部長。對,羅委員好。"},{"start":12.688,"end":30.515,"text":"中國在今年的兩會期間宣布編列軍事預算是人民幣一兆六千多億,也就是年增了7.2%。中國創新高的軍事預算讓周遭很多國家都倍感壓力,所以也都紛紛提高了國防的預算。"},{"start":32.236,"end":33.457,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情"},{"start":56.912,"end":56.952,"text":"﹚羅美玲議員"},{"start":71.989,"end":72.009,"text":"請問部長"},{"start":95.986,"end":122.582,"text":"我們主要是新增案的部分因為新增案的部分影響比較大那新增案的部分對於在我們建國不對稱戰力還有後備戰力的這個部分有相當的琢磨所以我們當然很希望就是說這些新增案的部分不會因為這個總預算案的被封殺那因此使得我們沒有辦法有任何的新增案那當然潛艦也是其中的一部分"},{"start":123.522,"end":139.929,"text":"那現在這怎麼辦呢?部長這部分有跟在野黨的委員做溝通嗎?整理了總預算案當然我們希望行政院能夠出面然後來跟在野黨做溝通那我們對於我們自己國防預算的部分呢?"},{"start":140.868,"end":169.221,"text":"國防預算的部分都現在新政幹沒有辦法能夠就是國防預算如果卡關的話那等於我們的新政幹沒有辦法的話那我們一些包括剛剛比如說快速布雷艇、新型步槍這些等等那甚至民雄航太的無人機產業園區開發也都會受到影響這整體的來講當然對我們整個國家安全來講應該是會有一些重大的影響"},{"start":170.041,"end":197.693,"text":"所以這部分的話除了是要跟在野黨的委員溝通之外我想這部分也應該要跟國人來做說明好那再來還有一點就是進入到今天的這個主題台美國防工業會議那這個會議是由我們國防部的副部長徐副部長的率團來做出席然後在這個會議當中副部長還有胡理美方應該要儘速來協助台灣建立關鍵性的武力那其中包括讓"},{"start":198.473,"end":201.136,"text":"此外,我們也看到了美國國防部印太安全部首席"},{"start":215.553,"end":234.307,"text":"副助理部長威爾提到美國近期將會組成印太地區產業任性夥伴台灣在其中會扮演重要的角色與此同時美國也在9月22跟25當中有無人機廠商在AIT的牽線之下來跟台灣的無人機產業跟中科業來"},{"start":241.232,"end":267.654,"text":"所以我們可以看得到說這種種的跡象再來還有9月30號9月30號像這個奧克拉荷馬州的這個官員也率領了這個十多家的無人機的這個相關廠商來拜訪台灣跟台灣的這個無人機聯盟簽署了無人機產業國際脫銷合作備忘錄所以從這種種的跡象看來我們是不是有機會爭取加入美國飛鴻供應鏈了請問"},{"start":270.396,"end":270.476,"text":"90%以上?"},{"start":295.811,"end":297.112,"text":"對整個這個就是因為他這個裡面"},{"start":322.334,"end":322.575,"text":"中科院議員"},{"start":342.854,"end":355.727,"text":"我們的確是有很多案子目前正在洽談中但是細節就因為都有簽了保密協定也不便透露但是我們的確是有機會也有這個潛力加入這樣的國民電"},{"start":357.331,"end":377.291,"text":"從美國最近的態度來看,從他發表的言論裡面,其實美國對台灣的創新能力其實是非常的肯定。所以也就是說,其實我們應該是,台美軍工產業合作應該已經初步來講是成型了嘛。所以加入這個飛鴻供應鏈其實應該是值得可待嘛,是不是?"},{"start":380.284,"end":407.701,"text":"首先,這應該是美國在大力推動的一個政策這個是政策形成接下來就是說要如何來打造這是一個當然有一個現實的狀況是有很多在中國製造的原件確實是比較便宜所以如何能夠要把它cost down就是說成本能夠降低這個是大家現在要來思考的一個課題但是這個政策已經形成了"},{"start":407.841,"end":409.162,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為：羅美玲"},{"start":433.201,"end":436.282,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為"},{"start":450.227,"end":478.046,"text":"好的,謝謝,了解再來就要提到漢祥了剛剛我們沈國陽委員也有提到漢祥當然之前就是爆出工程師在這個公開社群的這個帳號多次分享國際國造的這個機密的資料當然經過調查之後我們是核定就是說國防部有核定說這些就沒有涉及這個我們涉密的這個工項可是它是屬於重大的這個違規"},{"start":480.708,"end":505.744,"text":"當然這個漢翔後來還是被罰了這個一百萬那我這邊要提到的就是說我剛剛有提到像奧克拉荷馬州在9月30號的時候其實有跟這個我國的無人機聯盟簽署了一個MOU這個聯盟的主席就是誰呢這主席就是漢翔航空工業有限公司的董事長好那類似這樣子他們公司又出了這個包那會不會讓這個美國對於"},{"start":510.447,"end":539.453,"text":"台灣在這保密方面的有所質疑的這會影響我想美國也好或者是其他有門國家也好或者我們自己本身也好我們要做一個比較更詳盡的一個不管是在這個資安面或者是在人員的查核安全查核面上面都需要來更加強這個是應該我們要努力再去做到的"},{"start":539.933,"end":559.93,"text":"是的,因為像漢祥這些秘案我們再來對照回來我們國防供應鏈其實我們有所謂的保密機制其實剛剛律師博士也有提到所以在2017年的時候我們為了要推動國防自主跟國防科技供應所以其實我們有比照美國建立了國防科技安全"},{"start":560.47,"end":568.072,"text":"﹑針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍"},{"start":589.677,"end":590.197,"text":"我們要加入美國的國防的供應鏈"},{"start":616.576,"end":641.129,"text":"其實台灣的國防產業你就要加入、導入CMMC像美國國防部的推動CMMC呢2025年的時候預計就要來生效了2026年的9月之後呢美國國防部他就會在採購案就要強制來要求承包廠商你必須取得這個認證那我們台灣準備好了嗎我們有導入這方面的這個機制嗎請問部長"},{"start":643.407,"end":661.041,"text":"跟委員報告就是說漢祥或者是中科院都應該要當領頭羊來努力來達成需要的一個要求那現在另外比較大的部分是另外有一些私人的私領域的這些產業"},{"start":662.302,"end":662.522,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":692.462,"end":692.522,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":713.993,"end":715.354,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為"},{"start":735.986,"end":736.626,"text":"美國是認同這個部分的嗎?"},{"start":762.352,"end":782.987,"text":"美國承諾會盡量來...會盡量來...對,我們比較擔心的就是說如果沒有拿到CMMC的這個認證你就拿不到美國的這個訂單這是讓我們比較擔心的部分所以這樣我們都已經參與了一系列的這個美國工業這個會議那當然這部分我也希望就是說能夠就是說"},{"start":783.707,"end":783.747,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":806.175,"end":806.456,"text":"主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:51:28 - 10:05:06","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長報告一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢。二、「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢。【機密】）","id":155096,"gazette":{"lineno":123,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時51分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長好，中國在今年的兩會期間宣布編列軍事預算是人民幣一兆六千多億，也就是年增7.2%，中國屢創新高的軍事預算讓周遭很多國家都備感壓力，所以也都紛紛地提高了國防的預算，其中包含了長期受到中國軍事威脅的臺灣，所以我國在114年的整體國防預算編列了6,470億元，較去年成長了7.7%，其中有很多都是譬如像潛艦國造後續艦的籌建，還有無人機等採購，有37案的軍事投資計畫，甚至還包含了軍公教整體調薪3%等等。","照理來講，現在的國防委員會應該要來審這些預算，可是這整個預算，像國家的總體預算，在在野黨惡意的封殺之下，現在丟包在程序委員會。我想請問部長，如果這些預算沒有辦法順利通過的話，這對國家安全有多大的影響？"],["顧部長立雄：主要是新增案的部分，因為新增案的部分影響比較大，新增案的部分在我們建構不對稱戰力還有後備戰力的這個部分有相當地著墨，所以我們當然很希望這些新增案不會因為總預算案被封殺，因此使得我們沒有辦法有任何的新增案，當然潛艦也是其中的一部分。"],["羅委員美玲：現在這個怎麼辦呢？部長，這部分有跟在野黨的委員溝通嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：整體的總預算案，我們當然希望行政院能夠出面，然後跟在野黨溝通。"],["羅委員美玲：對於我們自己國防預算的部分呢？"],["顧部長立雄：國防預算的部分，現在新增案沒有辦法能夠……就是國防預算如果卡關的話，等於我們的新增案沒有辦法執行的話，我們的一些，包括剛剛提的，比如快速布雷艇、新型步槍這些等等，甚至民雄航太暨無人機產業園區的開發，也都會受到影響，整體的來講，當然對我們整個國家安全應該是會有一些重大的影響。"],["羅委員美玲：所以這個部分除了要跟在野黨的委員溝通之外，我想也應該要跟國人來做說明。","再來，還有一點，就是進入到今天的這個主題─台美國防工業會議，這個會議是由我們國防部的徐副部長率團出席，在這個會議當中，副部長有呼籲美方應該要儘速來協助臺灣建立關鍵性的武力，其中包括讓臺灣加入美方軍工產業鏈，比照日本及澳洲，希望能夠獲得共同或授權生產軍品；除此之外，我們也看到了美國國防部印太安全部首席副助理部長Royal有提到，美國近期將會組成印太地區產業韌性夥伴，臺灣在其中會扮演重要的角色；與此同時，在9月22日至25日當中美國無人機廠商也在AIT的牽線之下來跟臺灣的無人機產業及中科院做接觸；還有9月30日奧克拉荷馬州的官員也率領了十多家的無人機相關廠商來拜訪臺灣，跟臺灣的無人機聯盟簽署了無人機產業國際拓銷合作備忘錄；從這種種的跡象看來，請問我們是不是有機會爭取加入美國非紅供應鏈？"],["顧部長立雄：美國打造非紅供應鏈，特別在無人載具這一塊，已經有形成一個決策了……"],["羅委員美玲：是。"],["顧部長立雄：根據這樣的一個決策，他當然希望結合相關的國家來共同，特別在無人機的部分，因為現在大概有75%以上無人機的製造都是來自於中國，所以……"],["羅委員美玲：90%以上，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：90%嗎？"],["羅委員美玲：是，高達90%以上。"],["顧部長立雄：我看到的資料好像是75%，反正都相當高的比例，所以要打造一個非紅供應鏈，在我們也好，或者其他的友盟國家，當然主要以美國為首的話，能夠帶頭來打造這樣一個非紅供應鏈，對整個來講，因為它裡面都有相當的一些資通訊設備，我想這些資通訊的設備能夠去除中國的製造或者中國的元件相當的重要，具體的這個部分就中科院的部分或者請中科院做一個簡單的說明。"],["羅委員美玲：好，請中科院。"],["李院長世強：委員，的確是有很多案子目前正在洽談中，但是細節因為都有簽了保密協定，也不便透露，但是我們的確是有機會也有潛力加入這樣的供應鏈。"],["羅委員美玲：是，從美國最近的態度來看，從他發表的言論裡面，其實美國對臺灣的這個創新能力是非常的肯定，也就是台美軍工產業合作應該初步來講已經是成形了，所以加入這個非紅供應鏈其實應該是指日可待，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：我還是講，第一個，這應該是美國在大力推動的一個政策，這個是政策形成……"],["羅委員美玲：是。"],["顧部長立雄：接下來就是要如何來打造，這個是一個，當然有一個現實的狀況是有很多在中國製造的元件確實是比較便宜，所以如何能夠讓它cost down，就是讓成本能夠降低，這個是大家現在要來思考的一個課題……"],["羅委員美玲：是。"],["顧部長立雄：但是這個政策已經形成了，政策形成之後，接下來就是是哪一些，比如無人機、無人艇，可以打入這個供應鏈裡面的一環，這個部分要大家來做細部的一些討論，剛剛中科院也講了，事實上，你也知道這個26個公司的團都已經過來了，也進行詳細的商談，具體的項目可能要原諒我們沒有辦法在這個時刻來做具體的說明……"],["羅委員美玲：OK。"],["顧部長立雄：但往這個方向走是美國主導大力要來推動的一個政策，這是毫無置疑的。"],["羅委員美玲：好，謝謝，瞭解。","再來，就要提到漢翔了，剛剛我們沈伯洋委員也有提到，漢翔之前爆出工程師在公開社群的帳號多次分享國機國造的機敏資料，當然經過調查之後，這些沒有涉及國防部核定的涉密工項，可是它是屬於重大的違規，當然漢翔後來還是被罰了100萬。我這邊要提到的，就是我剛剛有提到，奧克拉荷馬州在9月30日的時候其實有跟我國的無人機聯盟簽署了一個MOU，這個聯盟的主席是誰呢？這個主席就是漢翔航空工業有限公司的董事長，現在他們公司又出了這個包，會不會讓美國對於臺灣在這個保密方面有所質疑呢？這個會不會影響？"],["顧部長立雄：我想美國也好，或者是其他友盟國家也好，或者我們自己本身也好，我們要做一個更詳盡的處理，不管是在資安面，或者是在人員的安全查核面上，都需要來更加強，這個應該是我們要努力再去做到的。"],["羅委員美玲：是的，因為像漢翔的洩密案，我們再對照回來我們的國防供應鏈，其實我們有所謂的保密機制，剛剛沈伯洋委員也有提到，在2017年的時候，我們為了要推動國防自主及國防科技工業，其實我們有比照美國建立了國防科技安全管控的機制，還訂定了特別保密條款，還有參與國防事務人員保密安全的手冊等等，這些都是我們要求的要點，甚至我們在政戰局保安處還設立了安全調查辦公室，2023年的時候國防部還函送立法院國防廠商安全調查暨保密稽核執行成效報告，裡面其實都有提到一些策進的行為，可是還是很遺憾，有些還是沒落實。在漢翔公司發生這個事情，我想不應該再發生，因為我覺得這個真的是沒有落實，尤其漢翔這麼大的一家公司，所以我想國防部應該對漢翔公司要有所要求，對其他的廠商都要有所要求，尤其我們現在想要進入到人家的這個非紅產業鏈裡面。","再來，我們還提到CMMC，我們要加入美國的國防供應鏈，臺灣的國防產業就要導入CMMC，像美國國防部推動CMMC，2025年的時候預計就要生效了，2026年的9月之後，美國國防部就會在採購案強制來要求承包廠商必須取得這個認證，請問部長，我們臺灣準備好了嗎？我們有導入這方面的這個機制嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，漢翔或者是中科院都應該要當領頭羊，努力來達成CMMC的要求……"],["羅委員美玲：是，沒錯啊！"],["顧部長立雄：現在另外比較大的部分是有一些私領域的產業，這些私領域的產業，我們剛剛前面提到了，要加入無人機或者是無人載具的這個供應鏈裡面的話，他們也要理解他們資安認證的承受度，也就是CMMC，必須要能夠被美國所認證，因為認證的費用可能會高，所以我們現在跟美國一直在講，看能不能一個認證的單位在臺灣成立，如果能夠成立……"],["羅委員美玲：就是我們自己設立……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，就美國授權某一家，或者是……"],["羅委員美玲：美國授權某一家認證公司來做認證。"],["顧部長立雄：或者美國自己在這裡成立一家認證公司……"],["羅委員美玲：是。"],["顧部長立雄：這樣子的話，取得這樣一個認證所需要的費用就可以比較大幅的降低，尤其現在的意願上面，如果他能夠加入這個供應鏈，他就會有一個產業規模的商機，因為如果單靠軍方，坦白講，軍方需求就這麼大，他們如果不加入這個供應鏈，就沒辦法產生一定的產業規模，所以如果看到這樣子的前景，他們就會有這個意願，有意願的話，這些無人機的公司規模大小不一，基本上要有那個能力來加入CMMC，我們當然也希望美國能夠協助在這裡成立認證單位。"],["羅委員美玲：這目前有在談了嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：有。"],["羅委員美玲：已經有在談了？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["羅委員美玲：美國是認同這個部分的嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：美國承諾會儘量來研議……"],["羅委員美玲：對，我們比較擔心的是，如果沒有拿到CMMC的認證，就拿不到美國的訂單，這是讓我們比較擔心的部分，所以既然我們都已經參與了一系列的美國工業會議，當然這個部分我也希望，在國際上我們能夠取得所謂工業產業的認證，我們可以加入這一系列的行業裡面，所以我是想說，CMMC如果真的無法導入的話，那其他折衷的方式可能要儘快去跟美方做討論，本席希望能夠看到後續有比較……因為其實CMMC不只是這次我有詢問，我記得上個會期已經有委員詢問過，我想部長的答案跟今天的答案是差不多的，我本來想說今天會有一個進展，結果目前還是在談的階段，還沒有一個明確的答案出來，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：我們一直在積極地交流對談當中，我想有一些部分，就是說要進入到供應鏈，第一個讓它看到前景，它就會願意積極來做。第二個，導入的那些部分可能要進行一個實體隔離，然後來達成這個，講白一點，就是它有關的那一塊，必須要跟其他的部分來進行一個實體隔離，然後就這個部分來進行認證，應該是會比較容易達成美方的要求。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，因為主席站起來了，謝謝部長。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅美玲委員，部長請回。","下一位請馬文君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","speakers":["林憶君","黃仁","沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","徐巧芯","王定宇","林楚茵","陳永康","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林國成","黃國昌","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張啓楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告：一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢；二、\n「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢【機\n密】","agenda_id":"1137901_00005"}}}