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\"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 653.813, \"end\": 653.914, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 653.914, \"end\": 653.934, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 653.934, \"end\": 653.994, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 653.994, \"end\": 654.074, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 654.074, \"end\": 654.094, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 654.094, \"end\": 654.114, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 654.114, \"end\": 654.134, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,569\n部長、次長早部長、次長早部長,我們這個班班有鮮奶這個政策事實上很清楚我想剛剛培育委員有講到一個說我們這個班班有鮮奶是想要去化有沒有可能去化我們國產鮮奶等等但我想應該不是\n\n2\n00:00:30,258 --> 00:00:56,502\n因為農業部很清楚你是為了因應台灣跟紐西蘭經濟合作協定那明年要上路那恐怕這也是會對我們的這個本土弱農業有衝擊我們希望減輕一點那個衝擊所以我們提出了這個班班有鮮奶的一個政策那但是呢我想今天為什麼我這麼慎重還做了手板來我們現在說班班有手板對不對班班有鮮奶對不對然後再來呢我們現在後來變成什麼了班班有保酒乳\n\n3\n00:00:58,102 --> 00:01:19,667\n現在是甚麼?不管是鮮奶包、焦乳,我們現在變成班班在等待。部長不反對吧?現在是班班在等待。我們推出這個政策,我想如果可以製造多營,對我們本土的落農也好,對我們的孩童也好,我想我們是全力贊成的。可是我們看到,\n\n4\n00:01:20,327 --> 00:01:31,735\n直至10月1號開始起,當然這個數字可能滾動檢討,等下如果有錯誤歡迎你可以糾正一下鮮奶跟薄熊乳目前是7個縣市,剛好像聽到你有說9個縣市,但是沒關係,好像是7個縣市那約有863所學校完成了訂購,9月30呢預備開始配送,所以這佔了全國2624所國小比例的3乘2也就是說現在有開始要完成配送大概就是3乘多,即便我們數字上面有些差距恐怕就是3乘多\n\n5\n00:01:51,069 --> 00:01:56,621\n跟委員報告確實在9月底之前是這一個數字那10月1號有嘉義\n\n6\n00:01:58,124 --> 00:02:08,026\n這一個加上10月4號的...有超過4成了嗎?宜蘭已經有9所縣市那應該會有4成好,我想我剛剛還有粗估幫你統計一下我想應該還是4成不到但是呢,我們原來這個政策就是講得很清楚也就是說我們要讓我們的學童一週兩次喝鮮奶那可見現在其實它就是一個政策跳票\n\n7\n00:02:26,149 --> 00:02:43,869\n那我們不管是在這個豆漿因為我們知道有些孩子他不能夠喝鮮奶或者是剛剛說的乳糖不耐症無乳糖的鮮奶那這個標案分別都留標兩到三次還要到10月8號才能夠再開標萬一開標不順利我想教育部應該也很頭大那後面要怎麼辦這個備案出來了嗎\n\n8\n00:02:48,257 --> 00:03:17,365\n報告抓委希望謝謝抓委這個既支持學童乳的政策我們答重點希望學生有鮮奶那在農業部的立場當然是照顧國產鮮奶但是那個次長請你下去那個部長如果我剛剛講的如果說今天我們豆漿跟這個無乳糖的鮮奶繼續流標那換言之就是說以我現在的數據大概我們還有十幾個縣市的學生以及我們訂豆漿和無乳糖鮮奶的孩子到時候只能看別人喝鮮奶那他\n\n9\n00:03:18,006 --> 00:03:18,246\n該怎麼辦?部長有對策嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:22,762 --> 00:03:47,394\n如果沒有沒關係,我覺得你說的沒有,我們都可以來討論,目前有嗎?跟委員報告,就是說我們這一個不管各地方政府到最後什麼時候結標,我們那一個所提供的量一定會把它補足,大概目前...好,我跟你講,這就跟你當初那個班班有時班一樣,然後呢,本來說好的要有時班時,結果呢,沒有,一直跳跛跳跛跳跛,到最後呢,一個禮拜叫他吃四天時班,你可能不知道這個狀況啊?\n\n11\n00:03:49,141 --> 00:03:50,022\n今天所提到的不管是在之前我就有提醒教育部這個政策是農業部出來的\n\n12\n00:04:04,321 --> 00:04:25,652\n說真的啦我們教育部喔太多事情要辦了那我們今天在配合農業部的政策能對孩子好我們也願意嘛但是部長你有沒有想過啊我想大家也都是從這個學校對學校也都很了解喔我們今天如果沒有冷鏈沒有冷藏到底哪一個學校有這麼多的冰箱可以去冰這些鮮奶或者是去存放這個保酒乳喔你們知道嗎現在啊我們就連保酒乳的供應量啊都非常的不足啊\n\n13\n00:04:30,895 --> 00:04:36,497\n國內的所有的大廠的保酒乳目前量通通不夠一個禮拜大概只夠一次這個您知道嗎?您知道嗎?根文報告我大概知道大概知道不是那麼準確的知道基本上大概有這樣的一個現象沒有這是確定的啊現在是不夠的連保酒乳都不夠那麼一週就只能一次這又再一次去跳票啦對不對好\n\n14\n00:04:55,842 --> 00:05:03,664\n那再來勒,不但是我們亮跳票,我們看到,您剛提到這個共同供應契約啊,我們現在變的運算就是鮮奶16塊嘛,然後保九五14塊,那這一些呢,其實就已經非常低了。然後呢,我們那個貨運的這個運送,然後到了學校的人力,您知道嗎,現在因為沒有貨運運送的這個成本的這個經費在裡面,那所以呢,我們打算一個月送一次去,我不要講別的,\n\n15\n00:05:21,607 --> 00:05:40,979\n以本席選區內全桃園市最大的中三國小你一次就要給我送一千箱去啊我還要找教室給你放啊我們沒有教室啊以前我們說運送的問題可能有偏向的問題那現在連都會區都是這樣的一個問題啊大的學校三千人小的學校一千人動輒三五百箱八九百箱到一千箱往往哪放\n\n16\n00:05:42,019 --> 00:06:08,695\n有些人就協議說我們來放教室的後面這也影響學生的空間這都是問題然後各縣市政府不管他財政狀況好不好要來幫這個政策編列人力的預算來幫忙搬送鮮奶因為我們不能造成第一線的老師、行政員員午餐執迷的困擾所以這一些都是我們要配合農業部的政策但是教育部在第一線執行的時候真的帶給我們行政員員跟教師很大的困擾部長你認為有沒有\n\n17\n00:06:11,685 --> 00:06:18,153\n謝謝委員提醒這也是我剛才跟其他委員報告的我們希望通過這一學期實際跟地方政府的一個推動中小學的一個...確實是有造成一些困擾\n\n18\n00:06:29,426 --> 00:06:42,799\n所以你就有同理心嘛我想說老師也會很感謝你的同理心嘛所以我們要去解決這個問題嘛我們不能每一次農業部丟一個政策出來我們就開始急救章要來配合他們如果真的做不到你要跟農業部講說給我一點時間嘛是不是你不能一頭栽進去結果咧我們承受這麼大的壓力再來那個\n\n19\n00:06:49,585 --> 00:06:59,842\n我想請教一下過去班班吃食班喔班班吃食班這件事情喔那只有很短暫嘛這對我們的孩子啊有什麼幫助我請那個國教署署長來回答\n\n20\n00:07:05,923 --> 00:07:22,193\n謝謝委員我簡單的說明我們從時燈平台後台來看小朋友他們午餐的菜單上在110年以前比較少餘的這個菜單在112學年吃過了一學期的班班十班之後呢他是比較明顯的成長那這個數據我們在下班前給您\n\n21\n00:07:26,010 --> 00:07:49,636\n謝謝部長所以呢因為我們有班班吃食班的政策所以孩子們開始變得喜歡吃娛樂然後或者是開始可以接受吃娛樂那這樣是好事如果真是這樣這是好事但是我們來看喔班班有鮮奶的政策今天我們變成班班飽酒辱班班有鮮奶的政策變成班班有飽酒辱我們真的第一個我想次長在旁邊也聽喔\n\n22\n00:07:50,516 --> 00:08:11,883\n我們真的可以幫到我們的國產鮮乳我們的弱農嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題呢我想我們大家都有在質疑喔班班變成飽酒乳其實我們就是在為未來比較這個價廉的進口飽酒乳來搭橋有的孩子習慣喝這個飽酒乳之後他就回不去了\n\n23\n00:08:12,463 --> 00:08:12,903\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就\n\n24\n00:08:30,094 --> 00:08:49,969\n讓學童來幫忙舊產業那真的太沉重了我們孩子就是只想喝鮮奶而已所以我在這裡提醒我想部長本期這一次剛剛我想我跟洪孟楷委員我們都有正式提案我今天有一個臨時提案我正式的要求部長不能造成我們第一線的老師跟行政院的困擾\n\n25\n00:08:50,989 --> 00:09:11,704\n過去我們在這個免費的營養午餐協助弱勢的學童當寒暑假的時候我們怎麼做各縣市政府或中央我們的做法就是我們發這個餐券營養午餐券然後到這個便利超商然後去領取他們可以食用的午餐所以呢我們要求這個政策能夠盡快立即的我們要把它改變成為發這個鮮奶券然後可以到這個便利超商也好賣場也好\n\n26\n00:09:19,369 --> 00:09:21,671\n第二、減少學校放置鮮奶空間的壓力第三、減少老師及行政員員的壓力\n\n27\n00:09:42,315 --> 00:09:59,975\n跟委員報告確實我們透過這個實際的在推動的時候也把這樣的一個在未來更精進的一個政策的執行也把委員剛才所提的也納入了一個我們思考的一個方向但是當時為什麼由學校裡邊來就是要確保我們\n\n28\n00:10:01,256 --> 00:10:05,558\n這部分有一些細節我們都還會跟地方政府裡面看怎麼樣有一個更完善的一個推動的一個方式。\n\n29\n00:10:19,045 --> 00:10:19,085\n主席\n\n30\n00:10:36,048 --> 00:10:54,134\n這個政策其實從這個六、七月就開始講所以本席要求一個月之內我覺得你要去研議出來有什麼方式不要造成我們教育現場、學校現場的壓力但又可以完成農業部的這個班班有鮮奶給我們的這個政策所以一個月之內去把它研議出來積極一點好嗎我們會努力可以齁好以上謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝次長請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1569\t部長、次長早部長、次長早部長,我們這個班班有鮮奶這個政策事實上很清楚我想剛剛培育委員有講到一個說我們這個班班有鮮奶是想要去化有沒有可能去化我們國產鮮奶等等但我想應該不是\n30258\t56502\t因為農業部很清楚你是為了因應台灣跟紐西蘭經濟合作協定那明年要上路那恐怕這也是會對我們的這個本土弱農業有衝擊我們希望減輕一點那個衝擊所以我們提出了這個班班有鮮奶的一個政策那但是呢我想今天為什麼我這麼慎重還做了手板來我們現在說班班有手板對不對班班有鮮奶對不對然後再來呢我們現在後來變成什麼了班班有保酒乳\n58102\t79667\t現在是甚麼?不管是鮮奶包、焦乳,我們現在變成班班在等待。部長不反對吧?現在是班班在等待。我們推出這個政策,我想如果可以製造多營,對我們本土的落農也好,對我們的孩童也好,我想我們是全力贊成的。可是我們看到,\n80327\t91735\t直至10月1號開始起,當然這個數字可能滾動檢討,等下如果有錯誤歡迎你可以糾正一下鮮奶跟薄熊乳目前是7個縣市,剛好像聽到你有說9個縣市,但是沒關係,好像是7個縣市那約有863所學校完成了訂購,9月30呢預備開始配送,所以這佔了全國2624所國小比例的3乘2也就是說現在有開始要完成配送大概就是3乘多,即便我們數字上面有些差距恐怕就是3乘多\n111069\t116621\t跟委員報告確實在9月底之前是這一個數字那10月1號有嘉義\n118124\t128026\t這一個加上10月4號的...有超過4成了嗎?宜蘭已經有9所縣市那應該會有4成好,我想我剛剛還有粗估幫你統計一下我想應該還是4成不到但是呢,我們原來這個政策就是講得很清楚也就是說我們要讓我們的學童一週兩次喝鮮奶那可見現在其實它就是一個政策跳票\n146149\t163869\t那我們不管是在這個豆漿因為我們知道有些孩子他不能夠喝鮮奶或者是剛剛說的乳糖不耐症無乳糖的鮮奶那這個標案分別都留標兩到三次還要到10月8號才能夠再開標萬一開標不順利我想教育部應該也很頭大那後面要怎麼辦這個備案出來了嗎\n168257\t197365\t報告抓委希望謝謝抓委這個既支持學童乳的政策我們答重點希望學生有鮮奶那在農業部的立場當然是照顧國產鮮奶但是那個次長請你下去那個部長如果我剛剛講的如果說今天我們豆漿跟這個無乳糖的鮮奶繼續流標那換言之就是說以我現在的數據大概我們還有十幾個縣市的學生以及我們訂豆漿和無乳糖鮮奶的孩子到時候只能看別人喝鮮奶那他\n198006\t198246\t該怎麼辦?部長有對策嗎?\n202762\t227394\t如果沒有沒關係,我覺得你說的沒有,我們都可以來討論,目前有嗎?跟委員報告,就是說我們這一個不管各地方政府到最後什麼時候結標,我們那一個所提供的量一定會把它補足,大概目前...好,我跟你講,這就跟你當初那個班班有時班一樣,然後呢,本來說好的要有時班時,結果呢,沒有,一直跳跛跳跛跳跛,到最後呢,一個禮拜叫他吃四天時班,你可能不知道這個狀況啊?\n229141\t230022\t今天所提到的不管是在之前我就有提醒教育部這個政策是農業部出來的\n244321\t265652\t說真的啦 我們教育部喔 太多事情要辦了那我們今天在配合農業部的政策能對孩子好 我們也願意嘛但是部長 你有沒有想過啊我想大家也都是從這個學校 對學校也都很了解喔我們今天如果沒有冷鏈 沒有冷藏到底哪一個學校有這麼多的冰箱可以去冰這些鮮奶 或者是去存放這個保酒乳喔你們知道嗎 現在啊 我們就連保酒乳的供應量啊都非常的不足啊\n270895\t276497\t國內的所有的大廠的保酒乳目前量通通不夠一個禮拜大概只夠一次這個您知道嗎?您知道嗎?根文報告我大概知道大概知道不是那麼準確的知道基本上大概有這樣的一個現象沒有這是確定的啊現在是不夠的連保酒乳都不夠那麼一週就只能一次這又再一次去跳票啦對不對好\n295842\t303664\t那再來勒,不但是我們亮跳票,我們看到,您剛提到這個共同供應契約啊,我們現在變的運算就是鮮奶16塊嘛,然後保九五14塊,那這一些呢,其實就已經非常低了。然後呢,我們那個貨運的這個運送,然後到了學校的人力,您知道嗎,現在因為沒有貨運運送的這個成本的這個經費在裡面,那所以呢,我們打算一個月送一次去,我不要講別的,\n321607\t340979\t以本席選區內全桃園市最大的中三國小你一次就要給我送一千箱去啊我還要找教室給你放啊我們沒有教室啊以前我們說運送的問題可能有偏向的問題那現在連都會區都是這樣的一個問題啊大的學校三千人小的學校一千人動輒三五百箱八九百箱到一千箱往往哪放\n342019\t368695\t有些人就協議說我們來放教室的後面這也影響學生的空間這都是問題然後各縣市政府不管他財政狀況好不好要來幫這個政策編列人力的預算來幫忙搬送鮮奶因為我們不能造成第一線的老師、行政員員午餐執迷的困擾所以這一些都是我們要配合農業部的政策但是教育部在第一線執行的時候真的帶給我們行政員員跟教師很大的困擾部長你認為有沒有\n371685\t378153\t謝謝委員提醒 這也是我剛才跟其他委員報告的我們希望通過這一學期實際跟地方政府的一個推動中小學的一個...確實是有造成一些困擾\n389426\t402799\t所以你就有同理心嘛我想說老師也會很感謝你的同理心嘛所以我們要去解決這個問題嘛我們不能每一次農業部丟一個政策出來我們就開始急救章要來配合他們如果真的做不到你要跟農業部講說給我一點時間嘛是不是你不能一頭栽進去結果咧我們承受這麼大的壓力再來那個\n409585\t419842\t我想請教一下過去班班吃食班喔班班吃食班這件事情喔那只有很短暫嘛這對我們的孩子啊有什麼幫助我請那個國教署署長來回答\n425923\t442193\t謝謝委員我簡單的說明我們從時燈平台後台來看小朋友他們午餐的菜單上在110年以前比較少餘的這個菜單在112學年吃過了一學期的班班十班之後呢他是比較明顯的成長那這個數據我們在下班前給您\n446010\t469636\t謝謝部長所以呢因為我們有班班吃食班的政策所以孩子們開始變得喜歡吃娛樂然後或者是開始可以接受吃娛樂那這樣是好事如果真是這樣這是好事但是我們來看喔班班有鮮奶的政策今天我們變成班班飽酒辱班班有鮮奶的政策變成班班有飽酒辱我們真的第一個我想次長在旁邊也聽喔\n470516\t491883\t我們真的可以幫到我們的國產鮮乳我們的弱農嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題呢我想我們大家都有在質疑喔班班變成飽酒乳其實我們就是在為未來比較這個價廉的進口飽酒乳來搭橋有的孩子習慣喝這個飽酒乳之後他就回不去了\n492463\t492903\t二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就\n510094\t529969\t讓學童來幫忙舊產業那真的太沉重了我們孩子就是只想喝鮮奶而已所以我在這裡提醒我想部長本期這一次剛剛我想我跟洪孟楷委員我們都有正式提案我今天有一個臨時提案我正式的要求部長不能造成我們第一線的老師跟行政院的困擾\n530989\t551704\t過去我們在這個免費的營養午餐協助弱勢的學童當寒暑假的時候我們怎麼做各縣市政府或中央我們的做法就是我們發這個餐券營養午餐券然後到這個便利超商然後去領取他們可以食用的午餐所以呢我們要求這個政策能夠盡快立即的我們要把它改變成為發這個鮮奶券然後可以到這個便利超商也好賣場也好\n559369\t561671\t第二、減少學校放置鮮奶空間的壓力第三、減少老師及行政員員的壓力\n582315\t599975\t跟委員報告確實我們透過這個實際的在推動的時候也把這樣的一個在未來更精進的一個政策的執行也把委員剛才所提的也納入了一個我們思考的一個方向但是當時為什麼由學校裡邊來就是要確保我們\n601256\t605558\t這部分有一些細節我們都還會跟地方政府裡面看怎麼樣有一個更完善的一個推動的一個方式。\n619045\t619085\t主席\n636048\t654134\t這個政策其實從這個六、七月就開始講所以本席要求一個月之內我覺得你要去研議出來有什麼方式不要造成我們教育現場、學校現場的壓力但又可以完成農業部的這個班班有鮮奶給我們的這個政策所以一個月之內去把它研議出來積極一點好嗎我們會努力可以齁 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝部長 謝謝次長請回\n","txt":"部長、次長早部長、次長早部長,我們這個班班有鮮奶這個政策事實上很清楚我想剛剛培育委員有講到一個說我們這個班班有鮮奶是想要去化有沒有可能去化我們國產鮮奶等等但我想應該不是\n因為農業部很清楚你是為了因應台灣跟紐西蘭經濟合作協定那明年要上路那恐怕這也是會對我們的這個本土弱農業有衝擊我們希望減輕一點那個衝擊所以我們提出了這個班班有鮮奶的一個政策那但是呢我想今天為什麼我這麼慎重還做了手板來我們現在說班班有手板對不對班班有鮮奶對不對然後再來呢我們現在後來變成什麼了班班有保酒乳\n現在是甚麼?不管是鮮奶包、焦乳,我們現在變成班班在等待。部長不反對吧?現在是班班在等待。我們推出這個政策,我想如果可以製造多營,對我們本土的落農也好,對我們的孩童也好,我想我們是全力贊成的。可是我們看到,\n直至10月1號開始起,當然這個數字可能滾動檢討,等下如果有錯誤歡迎你可以糾正一下鮮奶跟薄熊乳目前是7個縣市,剛好像聽到你有說9個縣市,但是沒關係,好像是7個縣市那約有863所學校完成了訂購,9月30呢預備開始配送,所以這佔了全國2624所國小比例的3乘2也就是說現在有開始要完成配送大概就是3乘多,即便我們數字上面有些差距恐怕就是3乘多\n跟委員報告確實在9月底之前是這一個數字那10月1號有嘉義\n這一個加上10月4號的...有超過4成了嗎?宜蘭已經有9所縣市那應該會有4成好,我想我剛剛還有粗估幫你統計一下我想應該還是4成不到但是呢,我們原來這個政策就是講得很清楚也就是說我們要讓我們的學童一週兩次喝鮮奶那可見現在其實它就是一個政策跳票\n那我們不管是在這個豆漿因為我們知道有些孩子他不能夠喝鮮奶或者是剛剛說的乳糖不耐症無乳糖的鮮奶那這個標案分別都留標兩到三次還要到10月8號才能夠再開標萬一開標不順利我想教育部應該也很頭大那後面要怎麼辦這個備案出來了嗎\n報告抓委希望謝謝抓委這個既支持學童乳的政策我們答重點希望學生有鮮奶那在農業部的立場當然是照顧國產鮮奶但是那個次長請你下去那個部長如果我剛剛講的如果說今天我們豆漿跟這個無乳糖的鮮奶繼續流標那換言之就是說以我現在的數據大概我們還有十幾個縣市的學生以及我們訂豆漿和無乳糖鮮奶的孩子到時候只能看別人喝鮮奶那他\n該怎麼辦?部長有對策嗎?\n如果沒有沒關係,我覺得你說的沒有,我們都可以來討論,目前有嗎?跟委員報告,就是說我們這一個不管各地方政府到最後什麼時候結標,我們那一個所提供的量一定會把它補足,大概目前...好,我跟你講,這就跟你當初那個班班有時班一樣,然後呢,本來說好的要有時班時,結果呢,沒有,一直跳跛跳跛跳跛,到最後呢,一個禮拜叫他吃四天時班,你可能不知道這個狀況啊?\n今天所提到的不管是在之前我就有提醒教育部這個政策是農業部出來的\n說真的啦 我們教育部喔 太多事情要辦了那我們今天在配合農業部的政策能對孩子好 我們也願意嘛但是部長 你有沒有想過啊我想大家也都是從這個學校 對學校也都很了解喔我們今天如果沒有冷鏈 沒有冷藏到底哪一個學校有這麼多的冰箱可以去冰這些鮮奶 或者是去存放這個保酒乳喔你們知道嗎 現在啊 我們就連保酒乳的供應量啊都非常的不足啊\n國內的所有的大廠的保酒乳目前量通通不夠一個禮拜大概只夠一次這個您知道嗎?您知道嗎?根文報告我大概知道大概知道不是那麼準確的知道基本上大概有這樣的一個現象沒有這是確定的啊現在是不夠的連保酒乳都不夠那麼一週就只能一次這又再一次去跳票啦對不對好\n那再來勒,不但是我們亮跳票,我們看到,您剛提到這個共同供應契約啊,我們現在變的運算就是鮮奶16塊嘛,然後保九五14塊,那這一些呢,其實就已經非常低了。然後呢,我們那個貨運的這個運送,然後到了學校的人力,您知道嗎,現在因為沒有貨運運送的這個成本的這個經費在裡面,那所以呢,我們打算一個月送一次去,我不要講別的,\n以本席選區內全桃園市最大的中三國小你一次就要給我送一千箱去啊我還要找教室給你放啊我們沒有教室啊以前我們說運送的問題可能有偏向的問題那現在連都會區都是這樣的一個問題啊大的學校三千人小的學校一千人動輒三五百箱八九百箱到一千箱往往哪放\n有些人就協議說我們來放教室的後面這也影響學生的空間這都是問題然後各縣市政府不管他財政狀況好不好要來幫這個政策編列人力的預算來幫忙搬送鮮奶因為我們不能造成第一線的老師、行政員員午餐執迷的困擾所以這一些都是我們要配合農業部的政策但是教育部在第一線執行的時候真的帶給我們行政員員跟教師很大的困擾部長你認為有沒有\n謝謝委員提醒 這也是我剛才跟其他委員報告的我們希望通過這一學期實際跟地方政府的一個推動中小學的一個...確實是有造成一些困擾\n所以你就有同理心嘛我想說老師也會很感謝你的同理心嘛所以我們要去解決這個問題嘛我們不能每一次農業部丟一個政策出來我們就開始急救章要來配合他們如果真的做不到你要跟農業部講說給我一點時間嘛是不是你不能一頭栽進去結果咧我們承受這麼大的壓力再來那個\n我想請教一下過去班班吃食班喔班班吃食班這件事情喔那只有很短暫嘛這對我們的孩子啊有什麼幫助我請那個國教署署長來回答\n謝謝委員我簡單的說明我們從時燈平台後台來看小朋友他們午餐的菜單上在110年以前比較少餘的這個菜單在112學年吃過了一學期的班班十班之後呢他是比較明顯的成長那這個數據我們在下班前給您\n謝謝部長所以呢因為我們有班班吃食班的政策所以孩子們開始變得喜歡吃娛樂然後或者是開始可以接受吃娛樂那這樣是好事如果真是這樣這是好事但是我們來看喔班班有鮮奶的政策今天我們變成班班飽酒辱班班有鮮奶的政策變成班班有飽酒辱我們真的第一個我想次長在旁邊也聽喔\n我們真的可以幫到我們的國產鮮乳我們的弱農嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題呢我想我們大家都有在質疑喔班班變成飽酒乳其實我們就是在為未來比較這個價廉的進口飽酒乳來搭橋有的孩子習慣喝這個飽酒乳之後他就回不去了\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就\n讓學童來幫忙舊產業那真的太沉重了我們孩子就是只想喝鮮奶而已所以我在這裡提醒我想部長本期這一次剛剛我想我跟洪孟楷委員我們都有正式提案我今天有一個臨時提案我正式的要求部長不能造成我們第一線的老師跟行政院的困擾\n過去我們在這個免費的營養午餐協助弱勢的學童當寒暑假的時候我們怎麼做各縣市政府或中央我們的做法就是我們發這個餐券營養午餐券然後到這個便利超商然後去領取他們可以食用的午餐所以呢我們要求這個政策能夠盡快立即的我們要把它改變成為發這個鮮奶券然後可以到這個便利超商也好賣場也好\n第二、減少學校放置鮮奶空間的壓力第三、減少老師及行政員員的壓力\n跟委員報告確實我們透過這個實際的在推動的時候也把這樣的一個在未來更精進的一個政策的執行也把委員剛才所提的也納入了一個我們思考的一個方向但是當時為什麼由學校裡邊來就是要確保我們\n這部分有一些細節我們都還會跟地方政府裡面看怎麼樣有一個更完善的一個推動的一個方式。\n主席\n這個政策其實從這個六、七月就開始講所以本席要求一個月之內我覺得你要去研議出來有什麼方式不要造成我們教育現場、學校現場的壓力但又可以完成農業部的這個班班有鮮奶給我們的這個政策所以一個月之內去把它研議出來積極一點好嗎我們會努力可以齁 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝部長 謝謝次長請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.569\n部長、次長早部長、次長早部長,我們這個班班有鮮奶這個政策事實上很清楚我想剛剛培育委員有講到一個說我們這個班班有鮮奶是想要去化有沒有可能去化我們國產鮮奶等等但我想應該不是\n\n00:30.258 --> 00:56.502\n因為農業部很清楚你是為了因應台灣跟紐西蘭經濟合作協定那明年要上路那恐怕這也是會對我們的這個本土弱農業有衝擊我們希望減輕一點那個衝擊所以我們提出了這個班班有鮮奶的一個政策那但是呢我想今天為什麼我這麼慎重還做了手板來我們現在說班班有手板對不對班班有鮮奶對不對然後再來呢我們現在後來變成什麼了班班有保酒乳\n\n00:58.102 --> 01:19.667\n現在是甚麼?不管是鮮奶包、焦乳,我們現在變成班班在等待。部長不反對吧?現在是班班在等待。我們推出這個政策,我想如果可以製造多營,對我們本土的落農也好,對我們的孩童也好,我想我們是全力贊成的。可是我們看到,\n\n01:20.327 --> 01:31.735\n直至10月1號開始起,當然這個數字可能滾動檢討,等下如果有錯誤歡迎你可以糾正一下鮮奶跟薄熊乳目前是7個縣市,剛好像聽到你有說9個縣市,但是沒關係,好像是7個縣市那約有863所學校完成了訂購,9月30呢預備開始配送,所以這佔了全國2624所國小比例的3乘2也就是說現在有開始要完成配送大概就是3乘多,即便我們數字上面有些差距恐怕就是3乘多\n\n01:51.069 --> 01:56.621\n跟委員報告確實在9月底之前是這一個數字那10月1號有嘉義\n\n01:58.124 --> 02:08.026\n這一個加上10月4號的...有超過4成了嗎?宜蘭已經有9所縣市那應該會有4成好,我想我剛剛還有粗估幫你統計一下我想應該還是4成不到但是呢,我們原來這個政策就是講得很清楚也就是說我們要讓我們的學童一週兩次喝鮮奶那可見現在其實它就是一個政策跳票\n\n02:26.149 --> 02:43.869\n那我們不管是在這個豆漿因為我們知道有些孩子他不能夠喝鮮奶或者是剛剛說的乳糖不耐症無乳糖的鮮奶那這個標案分別都留標兩到三次還要到10月8號才能夠再開標萬一開標不順利我想教育部應該也很頭大那後面要怎麼辦這個備案出來了嗎\n\n02:48.257 --> 03:17.365\n報告抓委希望謝謝抓委這個既支持學童乳的政策我們答重點希望學生有鮮奶那在農業部的立場當然是照顧國產鮮奶但是那個次長請你下去那個部長如果我剛剛講的如果說今天我們豆漿跟這個無乳糖的鮮奶繼續流標那換言之就是說以我現在的數據大概我們還有十幾個縣市的學生以及我們訂豆漿和無乳糖鮮奶的孩子到時候只能看別人喝鮮奶那他\n\n03:18.006 --> 03:18.246\n該怎麼辦?部長有對策嗎?\n\n03:22.762 --> 03:47.394\n如果沒有沒關係,我覺得你說的沒有,我們都可以來討論,目前有嗎?跟委員報告,就是說我們這一個不管各地方政府到最後什麼時候結標,我們那一個所提供的量一定會把它補足,大概目前...好,我跟你講,這就跟你當初那個班班有時班一樣,然後呢,本來說好的要有時班時,結果呢,沒有,一直跳跛跳跛跳跛,到最後呢,一個禮拜叫他吃四天時班,你可能不知道這個狀況啊?\n\n03:49.141 --> 03:50.022\n今天所提到的不管是在之前我就有提醒教育部這個政策是農業部出來的\n\n04:04.321 --> 04:25.652\n說真的啦我們教育部喔太多事情要辦了那我們今天在配合農業部的政策能對孩子好我們也願意嘛但是部長你有沒有想過啊我想大家也都是從這個學校對學校也都很了解喔我們今天如果沒有冷鏈沒有冷藏到底哪一個學校有這麼多的冰箱可以去冰這些鮮奶或者是去存放這個保酒乳喔你們知道嗎現在啊我們就連保酒乳的供應量啊都非常的不足啊\n\n04:30.895 --> 04:36.497\n國內的所有的大廠的保酒乳目前量通通不夠一個禮拜大概只夠一次這個您知道嗎?您知道嗎?根文報告我大概知道大概知道不是那麼準確的知道基本上大概有這樣的一個現象沒有這是確定的啊現在是不夠的連保酒乳都不夠那麼一週就只能一次這又再一次去跳票啦對不對好\n\n04:55.842 --> 05:03.664\n那再來勒,不但是我們亮跳票,我們看到,您剛提到這個共同供應契約啊,我們現在變的運算就是鮮奶16塊嘛,然後保九五14塊,那這一些呢,其實就已經非常低了。然後呢,我們那個貨運的這個運送,然後到了學校的人力,您知道嗎,現在因為沒有貨運運送的這個成本的這個經費在裡面,那所以呢,我們打算一個月送一次去,我不要講別的,\n\n05:21.607 --> 05:40.979\n以本席選區內全桃園市最大的中三國小你一次就要給我送一千箱去啊我還要找教室給你放啊我們沒有教室啊以前我們說運送的問題可能有偏向的問題那現在連都會區都是這樣的一個問題啊大的學校三千人小的學校一千人動輒三五百箱八九百箱到一千箱往往哪放\n\n05:42.019 --> 06:08.695\n有些人就協議說我們來放教室的後面這也影響學生的空間這都是問題然後各縣市政府不管他財政狀況好不好要來幫這個政策編列人力的預算來幫忙搬送鮮奶因為我們不能造成第一線的老師、行政員員午餐執迷的困擾所以這一些都是我們要配合農業部的政策但是教育部在第一線執行的時候真的帶給我們行政員員跟教師很大的困擾部長你認為有沒有\n\n06:11.685 --> 06:18.153\n謝謝委員提醒這也是我剛才跟其他委員報告的我們希望通過這一學期實際跟地方政府的一個推動中小學的一個...確實是有造成一些困擾\n\n06:29.426 --> 06:42.799\n所以你就有同理心嘛我想說老師也會很感謝你的同理心嘛所以我們要去解決這個問題嘛我們不能每一次農業部丟一個政策出來我們就開始急救章要來配合他們如果真的做不到你要跟農業部講說給我一點時間嘛是不是你不能一頭栽進去結果咧我們承受這麼大的壓力再來那個\n\n06:49.585 --> 06:59.842\n我想請教一下過去班班吃食班喔班班吃食班這件事情喔那只有很短暫嘛這對我們的孩子啊有什麼幫助我請那個國教署署長來回答\n\n07:05.923 --> 07:22.193\n謝謝委員我簡單的說明我們從時燈平台後台來看小朋友他們午餐的菜單上在110年以前比較少餘的這個菜單在112學年吃過了一學期的班班十班之後呢他是比較明顯的成長那這個數據我們在下班前給您\n\n07:26.010 --> 07:49.636\n謝謝部長所以呢因為我們有班班吃食班的政策所以孩子們開始變得喜歡吃娛樂然後或者是開始可以接受吃娛樂那這樣是好事如果真是這樣這是好事但是我們來看喔班班有鮮奶的政策今天我們變成班班飽酒辱班班有鮮奶的政策變成班班有飽酒辱我們真的第一個我想次長在旁邊也聽喔\n\n07:50.516 --> 08:11.883\n我們真的可以幫到我們的國產鮮乳我們的弱農嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題呢我想我們大家都有在質疑喔班班變成飽酒乳其實我們就是在為未來比較這個價廉的進口飽酒乳來搭橋有的孩子習慣喝這個飽酒乳之後他就回不去了\n\n08:12.463 --> 08:12.903\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就\n\n08:30.094 --> 08:49.969\n讓學童來幫忙舊產業那真的太沉重了我們孩子就是只想喝鮮奶而已所以我在這裡提醒我想部長本期這一次剛剛我想我跟洪孟楷委員我們都有正式提案我今天有一個臨時提案我正式的要求部長不能造成我們第一線的老師跟行政院的困擾\n\n08:50.989 --> 09:11.704\n過去我們在這個免費的營養午餐協助弱勢的學童當寒暑假的時候我們怎麼做各縣市政府或中央我們的做法就是我們發這個餐券營養午餐券然後到這個便利超商然後去領取他們可以食用的午餐所以呢我們要求這個政策能夠盡快立即的我們要把它改變成為發這個鮮奶券然後可以到這個便利超商也好賣場也好\n\n09:19.369 --> 09:21.671\n第二、減少學校放置鮮奶空間的壓力第三、減少老師及行政員員的壓力\n\n09:42.315 --> 09:59.975\n跟委員報告確實我們透過這個實際的在推動的時候也把這樣的一個在未來更精進的一個政策的執行也把委員剛才所提的也納入了一個我們思考的一個方向但是當時為什麼由學校裡邊來就是要確保我們\n\n10:01.256 --> 10:05.558\n這部分有一些細節我們都還會跟地方政府裡面看怎麼樣有一個更完善的一個推動的一個方式。\n\n10:19.045 --> 10:19.085\n主席\n\n10:36.048 --> 10:54.134\n這個政策其實從這個六、七月就開始講所以本席要求一個月之內我覺得你要去研議出來有什麼方式不要造成我們教育現場、學校現場的壓力但又可以完成農業部的這個班班有鮮奶給我們的這個政策所以一個月之內去把它研議出來積極一點好嗎我們會努力可以齁好以上謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝次長請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.569,"text":"部長、次長早部長、次長早部長,我們這個班班有鮮奶這個政策事實上很清楚我想剛剛培育委員有講到一個說我們這個班班有鮮奶是想要去化有沒有可能去化我們國產鮮奶等等但我想應該不是"},{"start":30.258,"end":56.502,"text":"因為農業部很清楚你是為了因應台灣跟紐西蘭經濟合作協定那明年要上路那恐怕這也是會對我們的這個本土弱農業有衝擊我們希望減輕一點那個衝擊所以我們提出了這個班班有鮮奶的一個政策那但是呢我想今天為什麼我這麼慎重還做了手板來我們現在說班班有手板對不對班班有鮮奶對不對然後再來呢我們現在後來變成什麼了班班有保酒乳"},{"start":58.102,"end":79.667,"text":"現在是甚麼?不管是鮮奶包、焦乳,我們現在變成班班在等待。部長不反對吧?現在是班班在等待。我們推出這個政策,我想如果可以製造多營,對我們本土的落農也好,對我們的孩童也好,我想我們是全力贊成的。可是我們看到,"},{"start":80.327,"end":91.735,"text":"直至10月1號開始起,當然這個數字可能滾動檢討,等下如果有錯誤歡迎你可以糾正一下鮮奶跟薄熊乳目前是7個縣市,剛好像聽到你有說9個縣市,但是沒關係,好像是7個縣市那約有863所學校完成了訂購,9月30呢預備開始配送,所以這佔了全國2624所國小比例的3乘2也就是說現在有開始要完成配送大概就是3乘多,即便我們數字上面有些差距恐怕就是3乘多"},{"start":111.069,"end":116.621,"text":"跟委員報告確實在9月底之前是這一個數字那10月1號有嘉義"},{"start":118.124,"end":128.026,"text":"這一個加上10月4號的...有超過4成了嗎?宜蘭已經有9所縣市那應該會有4成好,我想我剛剛還有粗估幫你統計一下我想應該還是4成不到但是呢,我們原來這個政策就是講得很清楚也就是說我們要讓我們的學童一週兩次喝鮮奶那可見現在其實它就是一個政策跳票"},{"start":146.149,"end":163.869,"text":"那我們不管是在這個豆漿因為我們知道有些孩子他不能夠喝鮮奶或者是剛剛說的乳糖不耐症無乳糖的鮮奶那這個標案分別都留標兩到三次還要到10月8號才能夠再開標萬一開標不順利我想教育部應該也很頭大那後面要怎麼辦這個備案出來了嗎"},{"start":168.257,"end":197.365,"text":"報告抓委希望謝謝抓委這個既支持學童乳的政策我們答重點希望學生有鮮奶那在農業部的立場當然是照顧國產鮮奶但是那個次長請你下去那個部長如果我剛剛講的如果說今天我們豆漿跟這個無乳糖的鮮奶繼續流標那換言之就是說以我現在的數據大概我們還有十幾個縣市的學生以及我們訂豆漿和無乳糖鮮奶的孩子到時候只能看別人喝鮮奶那他"},{"start":198.006,"end":198.246,"text":"該怎麼辦?部長有對策嗎?"},{"start":202.762,"end":227.394,"text":"如果沒有沒關係,我覺得你說的沒有,我們都可以來討論,目前有嗎?跟委員報告,就是說我們這一個不管各地方政府到最後什麼時候結標,我們那一個所提供的量一定會把它補足,大概目前...好,我跟你講,這就跟你當初那個班班有時班一樣,然後呢,本來說好的要有時班時,結果呢,沒有,一直跳跛跳跛跳跛,到最後呢,一個禮拜叫他吃四天時班,你可能不知道這個狀況啊?"},{"start":229.141,"end":230.022,"text":"今天所提到的不管是在之前我就有提醒教育部這個政策是農業部出來的"},{"start":244.321,"end":265.652,"text":"說真的啦 我們教育部喔 太多事情要辦了那我們今天在配合農業部的政策能對孩子好 我們也願意嘛但是部長 你有沒有想過啊我想大家也都是從這個學校 對學校也都很了解喔我們今天如果沒有冷鏈 沒有冷藏到底哪一個學校有這麼多的冰箱可以去冰這些鮮奶 或者是去存放這個保酒乳喔你們知道嗎 現在啊 我們就連保酒乳的供應量啊都非常的不足啊"},{"start":270.895,"end":276.497,"text":"國內的所有的大廠的保酒乳目前量通通不夠一個禮拜大概只夠一次這個您知道嗎?您知道嗎?根文報告我大概知道大概知道不是那麼準確的知道基本上大概有這樣的一個現象沒有這是確定的啊現在是不夠的連保酒乳都不夠那麼一週就只能一次這又再一次去跳票啦對不對好"},{"start":295.842,"end":303.664,"text":"那再來勒,不但是我們亮跳票,我們看到,您剛提到這個共同供應契約啊,我們現在變的運算就是鮮奶16塊嘛,然後保九五14塊,那這一些呢,其實就已經非常低了。然後呢,我們那個貨運的這個運送,然後到了學校的人力,您知道嗎,現在因為沒有貨運運送的這個成本的這個經費在裡面,那所以呢,我們打算一個月送一次去,我不要講別的,"},{"start":321.607,"end":340.979,"text":"以本席選區內全桃園市最大的中三國小你一次就要給我送一千箱去啊我還要找教室給你放啊我們沒有教室啊以前我們說運送的問題可能有偏向的問題那現在連都會區都是這樣的一個問題啊大的學校三千人小的學校一千人動輒三五百箱八九百箱到一千箱往往哪放"},{"start":342.019,"end":368.695,"text":"有些人就協議說我們來放教室的後面這也影響學生的空間這都是問題然後各縣市政府不管他財政狀況好不好要來幫這個政策編列人力的預算來幫忙搬送鮮奶因為我們不能造成第一線的老師、行政員員午餐執迷的困擾所以這一些都是我們要配合農業部的政策但是教育部在第一線執行的時候真的帶給我們行政員員跟教師很大的困擾部長你認為有沒有"},{"start":371.685,"end":378.153,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 這也是我剛才跟其他委員報告的我們希望通過這一學期實際跟地方政府的一個推動中小學的一個...確實是有造成一些困擾"},{"start":389.426,"end":402.799,"text":"所以你就有同理心嘛我想說老師也會很感謝你的同理心嘛所以我們要去解決這個問題嘛我們不能每一次農業部丟一個政策出來我們就開始急救章要來配合他們如果真的做不到你要跟農業部講說給我一點時間嘛是不是你不能一頭栽進去結果咧我們承受這麼大的壓力再來那個"},{"start":409.585,"end":419.842,"text":"我想請教一下過去班班吃食班喔班班吃食班這件事情喔那只有很短暫嘛這對我們的孩子啊有什麼幫助我請那個國教署署長來回答"},{"start":425.923,"end":442.193,"text":"謝謝委員我簡單的說明我們從時燈平台後台來看小朋友他們午餐的菜單上在110年以前比較少餘的這個菜單在112學年吃過了一學期的班班十班之後呢他是比較明顯的成長那這個數據我們在下班前給您"},{"start":446.01,"end":469.636,"text":"謝謝部長所以呢因為我們有班班吃食班的政策所以孩子們開始變得喜歡吃娛樂然後或者是開始可以接受吃娛樂那這樣是好事如果真是這樣這是好事但是我們來看喔班班有鮮奶的政策今天我們變成班班飽酒辱班班有鮮奶的政策變成班班有飽酒辱我們真的第一個我想次長在旁邊也聽喔"},{"start":470.516,"end":491.883,"text":"我們真的可以幫到我們的國產鮮乳我們的弱農嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題呢我想我們大家都有在質疑喔班班變成飽酒乳其實我們就是在為未來比較這個價廉的進口飽酒乳來搭橋有的孩子習慣喝這個飽酒乳之後他就回不去了"},{"start":492.463,"end":492.903,"text":"二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就"},{"start":510.094,"end":529.969,"text":"讓學童來幫忙舊產業那真的太沉重了我們孩子就是只想喝鮮奶而已所以我在這裡提醒我想部長本期這一次剛剛我想我跟洪孟楷委員我們都有正式提案我今天有一個臨時提案我正式的要求部長不能造成我們第一線的老師跟行政院的困擾"},{"start":530.989,"end":551.704,"text":"過去我們在這個免費的營養午餐協助弱勢的學童當寒暑假的時候我們怎麼做各縣市政府或中央我們的做法就是我們發這個餐券營養午餐券然後到這個便利超商然後去領取他們可以食用的午餐所以呢我們要求這個政策能夠盡快立即的我們要把它改變成為發這個鮮奶券然後可以到這個便利超商也好賣場也好"},{"start":559.369,"end":561.671,"text":"第二、減少學校放置鮮奶空間的壓力第三、減少老師及行政員員的壓力"},{"start":582.315,"end":599.975,"text":"跟委員報告確實我們透過這個實際的在推動的時候也把這樣的一個在未來更精進的一個政策的執行也把委員剛才所提的也納入了一個我們思考的一個方向但是當時為什麼由學校裡邊來就是要確保我們"},{"start":601.256,"end":605.558,"text":"這部分有一些細節我們都還會跟地方政府裡面看怎麼樣有一個更完善的一個推動的一個方式。"},{"start":619.045,"end":619.085,"text":"主席"},{"start":636.048,"end":654.134,"text":"這個政策其實從這個六、七月就開始講所以本席要求一個月之內我覺得你要去研議出來有什麼方式不要造成我們教育現場、學校現場的壓力但又可以完成農業部的這個班班有鮮奶給我們的這個政策所以一個月之內去把它研議出來積極一點好嗎我們會努力可以齁 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝部長 謝謝次長請回"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:57:32 - 10:08:34","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國土管理署派員列席備詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155097,"gazette":{"lineno":243,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時57分）謝謝主席，我們有請鄭部長還有杜次長。"],["主席：有請部長和次長，謝謝。"],["萬委員美玲：部長、次長，早。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早。"],["萬委員美玲：部長，「班班有鮮奶」這個政策事實上很清楚，剛剛培瑜委員有講到一個，說「班班有鮮奶」是想要去化，就是有沒有可能去化國產鮮奶等等什麼的，但我想應該不是，因為農業部很清楚是為了因應臺灣跟紐西蘭經濟合作協定明年要上路，恐怕會對本土酪農業造成衝擊，我們希望減輕一點那個衝擊，所以提出了「班班有鮮奶」的政策。","為什麼我今天這麼慎重，還做了手板？原本是說「班班有鮮奶」，對不對？後來變成什麼了？變成「班班有保久乳」，對不對？可是現在是什麼？不管鮮奶或保久乳，現在是「班班在等待」！部長不反對吧？現在是「班班在等待」啊！","推出這個政策如果可以製造多贏，對本土酪農也好，對我們的孩童也好，我們是全力贊成的。可是截至10月1號（當然，這個數字可能在滾動檢討當中，如果有錯誤，等一下歡迎你們糾正），鮮奶跟保久乳目前是7個縣市訂購，剛剛好像有聽到部長說是9個縣市，但是沒關係，好像是7個縣市，約有863所學校完成訂購，9月30日預備開始配送，占全國2,624所國小的三成二。也就是說，現在開始要完成配送的大概就是三成多，即便數字有些差距，恐怕就是三成多。部長，沒有問題嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，在9月底之前確實是這一個數字，10月1號有嘉義，加上10月4日的宜蘭……"],["萬委員美玲：有超過四成了嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：已經有9個縣市。"],["萬委員美玲：有沒有超過四成？"],["鄭部長英耀：應該會有四成。"],["萬委員美玲：我粗估、幫你統計了一下，應該還是四成不到，但是原來這個政策講得很清楚，就是要讓我們的學童一週喝兩次鮮奶，可見現在其實就是政策跳票！","不管是豆漿，因為有些孩子不能喝鮮奶，或者是剛剛說的因為乳糖不耐症，要提供無乳糖的鮮奶，這個標案分別都流標了兩到三次，要到10月8日才能再開標，萬一開標不順利，我想教育部應該也很頭大。後面要怎麼辦？這個備案出來了嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：報告召委，先要謝謝召委支持學童乳的政策……"],["萬委員美玲：我們答重點！"],["杜次長文珍：希望學生有鮮奶喝。站在農業部的立場，當然是照顧國產鮮奶……"],["萬委員美玲：次長，請你下去！","部長，我剛剛講的，如果豆漿跟無乳糖的鮮奶繼續流標，換言之，以我現在的數據，大概還有十幾個縣市的學生以及訂豆漿和無乳糖鮮奶的孩子到時候只能看別人喝鮮奶，那他該怎麼辦？部長有對策嗎？如果沒有，沒關係，我覺得你說一個「沒有」我們都可以來討論。目前有嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，不管各地方政府到最後在什麼時候決標，該提供的量我們一定會把它補足，大概目前……"],["萬委員美玲：我跟你講，這就跟當初的「班班有石斑」一樣，本來說好的要有石斑吃，結果沒有，一直跳票、跳票，到最後呢？一個禮拜叫學生吃4天石斑！部長，你可能不知道這個狀況。你不能這樣子啊！說：沒關係嘛，最後一天給你2瓶，讓你補完就好了！不是這樣子的！我覺得要有一個政策出來。","我們再來看今天所提到的，之前我就有提醒教育部，這個政策是農業部提出來的，說真的啦，我們教育部太多事情要辦了，今天配合農業部的政策，能對孩子好我們也願意，但是部長你有沒有想過，我想大家對學校也都很瞭解，今天如果沒有冷鏈、沒有冷藏，到底哪一個學校有這麼多冰箱可以去冰這些鮮奶，或者是去存放這個保久乳？您知道嗎？現在就連保久乳的供應量都非常不足，國內所有大廠的保久乳目前的量統統不夠，一個禮拜大概只夠供應一次，這個您知道嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我大概知道。"],["萬委員美玲：大概知道？不是那麼準確地知道？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上大概有這樣一個現象出現。"],["萬委員美玲：這是確定的啊！現在是不夠的！連保久乳都不夠，那麼一週就只能一次，所以這個是再次跳票！對不對？","再來呢？不但是量跳票，您剛剛提到共同供應契約，我們現在編的預算就是鮮奶16塊、保久乳14塊，這些其實就已經非常低了，然後貨運的運送、到了學校的人力，您知道嗎？現在因為沒有貨運運送成本的經費在裡面，所以打算一個月送一次去，不要講別的，連本席選區內全桃園市最大的中山國小，一次就要給我送1,000箱去，我還要找教室給你放！我們沒有教室啊！以前我們說運送方面可能偏鄉有問題，現在連都會區都有這樣的問題！大的學校3,000人，小的學校1,000人，動輒三、五百箱，八、九百箱到一千箱，要往哪裡放？好，有些就協議說來放教室的後面，可是這也影響學生的活動空間，這都是問題啊！然後各縣市政府不管財政狀況好不好，也要來幫這個政策編列人力的預算，來幫忙搬送鮮奶，因為不能造成第一線的老師、行政人員、午餐執秘的困擾。所以這些都是我們要配合農業部的政策，但是教育部在第一線執行的時候，真的帶給我們行政人員跟教師很大的困擾。部長，你認為有沒有？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，這也是我們……我剛才跟其他委員報告……"],["萬委員美玲：你只要告訴我，你覺得第一線教師有沒有困擾？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們透過這一學期實際跟地方政府的推動，中小學的一個……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，真的不要浪費我的時間啦！"],["鄭部長英耀：我們來……"],["萬委員美玲：你覺得目前的狀況對於我們第一線的老師有沒有造成困擾？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實是有造成一些困擾。"],["萬委員美玲：是嘛！所以你就有同理心，我想老師也會感謝你的同理心，所以我們就要去解決這個問題嘛！不能每次農業部丟一個政策出來，我們就開始急就章地要來配合他們，如果真的做不到，你也要跟農業部講，說「給我一點時間」嘛！是不是？你不能一頭栽進去，結果呢？我們承受這麼大的壓力！","再來我想請教一下，過去說要「班班吃石斑」，這件事情很短暫，對我們的孩子有什麼幫助？我請國教署彭署長來回答。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。我簡單說明，我們從食登平台後台來看，小朋友的午餐菜單上，在110年以前比較少有魚的菜單，在112學年吃過了一學期的「班班吃石斑」之後，它是比較明顯地成長，這個數據我們在下班前給您。"],["萬委員美玲：明顯地成長，好，謝謝。","部長，因為我們有「班班吃石斑」的政策，所以孩子們開始變得喜歡吃魚了，或者是開始可以接受吃魚了，這樣是好事，如果真是這樣，這是好事。但是我們來看「班班有鮮奶」的政策，今天變成「班班保久乳」，班班有鮮奶的政策變成班班有保久乳，次長在旁邊也一起聽，第一個，我們真的可以幫到我們國產鮮乳的酪農嗎？這是第一個問題；第二個問題，我想我們大家都有在質疑，班班有鮮奶變成保久乳，其實我們就是在為未來比較價廉的進口保久乳來搭橋，有的孩子習慣喝保久乳之後，他就回不去了，他可能就回不去了，是不是讓他去習慣將來也可以喝國外更便宜、選擇性更多的保久乳？所以我想每一次，不論是有石斑的問題也好，鮮乳的問題也好，我們不管因應國家政策是什麼，如果我們今天希望讓學童來幫忙救產業，那真的太沉重啦！我們孩子就是只想喝鮮奶而已。","所以我在這裡提醒，部長，這一次我跟洪孟楷委員都有正式提案，我今天有一個臨時提案，我正式的要求部長，不能造成我們第一線老師跟行政人員的困擾，過去我們在免費的營養午餐協助弱勢的學童，當寒暑假的時候，我們怎麼做？各縣市政府或中央的做法就是，我們發營養午餐券，然後到便利超商去領取他們可以食用的午餐。所以我們要求這個政策能夠儘快、立即的把它改變為發鮮奶券，可以到便利超商也好或是賣場也好，直接去領取。而這個時間你可以押、可以變成一週券，也許這一週當中兩次他都可以去領取，我想第一個，他可以領取到新鮮的鮮奶；第二個，又可以減少學校放置鮮奶空間的壓力；第三個，這是最重要的，節省我們老師跟行政人員壓力，可以做到嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實我們在透過實際推動的時候，針對這樣一個在未來更精進的政策執行，也把委員剛才所提的，納入了我們思考的一個方向，但是當時為什麼要學校裡邊來，就是要確保……我們還不太確定學童當有牛奶、鮮奶券的時候，是不是他自己本人能夠真正飲用，這一個部分有一些細節我們都還會跟地方政府研議，看怎麼樣有一個更好的、完善的推動方式。"],["萬委員美玲：所以部長要多久的時間，可以把您剛剛擔心的這些點跟地方縣市政府溝通好？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們目前在這一學期裡面，就整體各縣市面臨到的一些挑戰跟困境，我們希望以這一學期的狀況，在下一學期我們就能夠來做徹底的……"],["萬委員美玲：下學期真的太慢了，我想這個政策其實從6月、7月就開始講，所以本席要求一個月之內，我覺得你要去研議出來有什麼方式不要造成教育現場、學校現場的壓力，但又可以完成農業部給我們的「班班有鮮奶」這個政策，所以一個月之內去把它研議出來，積極一點好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們來努力。"],["萬委員美玲：可以喔？好。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝部長、謝謝次長，請回。謝謝萬美玲召委。","接下來有請柯志恩委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葉元之","范雲","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","林宜瑾","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","張嘉郡","洪申翰","張雅琳","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","林月琴","吳春城","黃健豪","黃國昌","牛煦庭","徐富癸","羅智強","吳沛憶","高金素梅","李彥秀"],"page_start":295,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢；二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小\n學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國\n土管理署派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00016"}}}