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\"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 676.673, \"end\": 676.753, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 676.753, \"end\": 676.773, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"傑\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,561 --> 00:00:28,940\n謝謝主席我們先請翁柏忠主委好翁主委委員好主委好那個有人爆料說你那個送禮用廠商去買單這是怎麼回事\n\n2\n00:00:30,779 --> 00:00:56,062\n好謝謝委員給我這個澄清的機會那首先我有發新聞稿澄清沒有這件絕無此事另外我也主動的將相關的單據還有整個的過程送給政風去調查及說明原委那特資會的使用都是合乎法令的\n\n3\n00:00:57,063 --> 00:01:03,351\n所以這個是合法啦齁我先請教一下你到底是買這個海產送誰呃呃快證\n\n4\n00:01:07,574 --> 00:01:31,315\n那個這個海產都是全部送給我們的同仁就是在年結期送給你們NCC裡面的同仁我們NCC的同仁那你這個主管不錯啊會買禮物送給同仁我坦白講我的特製會不多但是三結的時候我們會買一些水果或者是一些農特產送給我們的同仁\n\n5\n00:01:32,301 --> 00:01:54,153\nOK因為坦白講我本來不知道你送誰想說奇怪NCC到底要送禮物給誰結果是送給同仁其實用你自己的特資費送給同仁我是覺得這一點還不錯啦是可以給你鼓勵啦那當然就是說其他的部分就是一切依法嘛所以你就是有照你特資費那個支出都有憑證嘛\n\n6\n00:01:55,574 --> 00:02:13,530\n報告委員有這件事情我有信心我經得起考驗絕對沒有不法希望對同仁好的態度可以繼續下去同仁感同身受還不錯另外我請教一下主委數位港就是臺灣\n\n7\n00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:38,957\n所有的海南登陸站都在北部南部只有一個仿山那量不夠那如果說我們高雄將來要發展我們的AI首都就是我們希望高雄是一個非常條件很好的地方那數位港NCC有沒有什麼概念就是設海南登陸站由誰來設、怎麼設、什麼時候設\n\n8\n00:02:42,214 --> 00:02:55,911\n跟委員報告其實這個海嵐的登陸站其實在台灣就像委員講的都是集中在北部但是在南部確實也有需要那我想說上次也有討論到在興達港\n\n9\n00:02:58,734 --> 00:03:25,078\n就是附近的那個就是煤船進來的那個渠道是從國安的角度從任性的角度從將來我們所有的超級電腦資料中心需要的角度那這個角度是不是高雄需要設一個海南登陸站有沒有這個必要南部確實是有需要因為這樣分散這樣子假使是說你那個海南登陸站都是集中在北部的某些點沒有分散的話\n\n10\n00:03:25,618 --> 00:03:42,360\n那這樣確實在任性發展的角度是所以就是從NCC的角度是100%贊成我們南部設海南登陸站因為要發展AI你一定要有海南進來而且要有規模的IDC進來所以NCC會贊成會幫忙\n\n11\n00:03:43,882 --> 00:04:05,116\nNCC是站在因為電管法上面有一個公眾電信那個網路查驗及使用管理辦法我們會來協助重點是誰可以來設這個海覽登陸站這個部分的話就是要電信公司他假使願意提出申請電信公司是民間的\n\n12\n00:04:06,516 --> 00:04:27,813\n其實這個部分有很多的方式啦也是可以三家電信公司合資不過這個是關鍵基礎設施海嵐登陸站是關鍵基礎設施一定要就是說要是要本國的電信事業來ON比較好那關鍵基礎設施韌性的發展那到底是誰可以來主導\n\n13\n00:04:29,747 --> 00:04:50,276\n是NCC可以來主導還是數法部可以來主導因為這個NCC是監理單位這個有牽涉到就是整個AI產業的發展那或許是NCC管準不準嘛對不對我們就是那個LandingStation那個海欄站而已是不是請部長那個數法部部長就說這個到底可不可以設\n\n14\n00:04:55,083 --> 00:05:00,563\n那個報告委員我是樂觀其成啦齁這個從開展重新拉上跟部長報告我現在不知道誰來設阿\n\n15\n00:05:01,857 --> 00:05:27,461\n那個我們過去的例子像那個登陸站過去都是我有去查一下過去大概都是由電信公司提出申請然後去建設然後經過NCC核准那它建好以後我們速劃過去我們現在從國家的角度來思考啦就是它是韌性建設它是關鍵基礎設施國家的角度必須要有設從這個角度來看那如果民間都沒有人主動那我政府應該怎麼做\n\n16\n00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:55,978\n所以那個報告委員就我有去調查那個各式各樣的可能的方法那有一個方法就是那個我們那個就是像其實我那時候有建議說其實我們看到一個比如說像高雄有一個叫做戀愛5G的雅灣的5G這種方式這個model其實很好的model就是說建一個園區然後用5GIoT的這樣一個model去建那以這個模範是由高雄市政府提出這樣一個計畫高雄市政府提出\n\n17\n00:05:56,198 --> 00:05:59,718\n那如果高雄市政府說配合中央那中央有沒有想法\n\n18\n00:06:01,641 --> 00:06:28,659\n因為這個經費還是要申請公建預算所以要有單位去申請公建預算那個我現在跟部長報告啦這個是關鍵基礎設施這個是韌性建設這個是有關於國安跟資安甚至將來所有的AI的發展這對國家來講是重要的對不對完全同意那總是國家有個單位我說有人願意承擔來push這件事情\n\n19\n00:06:31,109 --> 00:06:44,317\n報告委員就是這個剛剛我講過就是這個東西這個東西本來就是應該要建設但是應該一起大家一起合作去做那我們願意來協調所以吼那個跟部長報告我現在問了很多單位\n\n20\n00:06:45,497 --> 00:07:10,674\n蘇貨部說願意協調OKNCC說願意幫忙OK市政委覺得這個重要OK那港務公司也覺得這個需要他們的地他們也OK然後那個台電也認為說在我興達廠這裡電量充足是全國最好的一個場所也OK現在沒有人掛鈴鐺誰來掛鈴鐺誰來主導這件事那我從中央的角度就是說我今天假設啦\n\n21\n00:07:11,769 --> 00:07:35,248\n那個總統問你說那個書法部你來主導或者是有誰可以來主導你要怎麼回答這個報告委員就是我想我們再來開個會協調看哪個單位出來出來你知道我的意思嗎對那個我問你你是可以說這是誰負責誰負責看誰那如果總統問你說這個是國家中央政策一定要有那書法部的部長應該怎麼樣來協助承擔來幫忙\n\n22\n00:07:38,547 --> 00:07:54,701\n就是我們出來就是來協調各單位,然後...是不是?對,要協調...所以部長你懂我意思嗎?了解了解,但是就是說...我問你,你的回答的方式就是,這個大家都可以但是如果總統問你說這是國家重要建設,一定要做那從數話部的角度要怎麼協助?\n\n23\n00:07:56,035 --> 00:08:23,627\n那我們就是剛剛講就是依照過去的過去那個海南上岸一開始都是電信公司去主導沒關係如果假設啦總統說那這件事就拜託你幫忙協調成功這樣子你可以答應嗎我們就我們當然會會會盡力部長你懂我意思嗎因為我現在其實我已經很努力找了很多單位了已經萬事俱備只欠東風啦那東風呢如果是有人有肩膀把他扛下來這個東這個就是東風\n\n24\n00:08:26,314 --> 00:08:53,520\n否則如果都沒有人扛下來就是東風無力百花殘所以報告委員我們在就是說在近期我們會再來好不好再開一個會拜託這是我說的再說一遍這是國家重要建設對不對完全同意這是關鍵基礎測試對不對這是對國家韌性發展很重要對不對那這個其實對於甚至在國內的AI競技力到國外的競爭力都很重要對不對好\n\n25\n00:08:54,780 --> 00:09:17,316\n總統如果跟你說阿這個很重要勒你對不對覺得對不對對嘛那現在沒有人做應該怎麼做就是就是說依照我剛講的那個我們過去調查過去的建立的方式拜託那個部長因為我找不到人承擔我們在這個其實我剛講的最合適那不管我們中央單位怎麼協調就拜託部長來主導這樣OK嗎\n\n26\n00:09:19,091 --> 00:09:43,610\n我們再來協調可以你來幫忙協調到這件事情成功吧不然我現在你看我做了這麼多的努力已經各個單位我都問了走了一圈了啦那最後我就還在找到底誰可以把這件事情承擔下來那這個對台灣對城市對將來國家的發展都一定非常的好而且也非常的重要但是就是要有人做好不好\n\n27\n00:09:45,110 --> 00:10:07,956\n這個拜託部長來主導協調啦好不好好那最後還有一個小事齁聯電、偽創、台說化都受到駭客的攻擊那這個在也是治安的問題那速發部有辦法處理嗎現在就是我們有觀察到這樣一個攻擊因為攻擊從政府攻擊開始擴散到民間齁那\n\n28\n00:10:08,876 --> 00:10:29,245\n我剛有講過就是我們第一個有所謂情資分享我們有聯防的機制然後公司協力的聯防機制所以也歡迎就是希望各個單位民間公司來加入我們這樣一個聯防的所謂設的這樣一個機制能夠分享這樣攻擊情資遇到攻擊的時候我們會提供一些情資跟協助來分散這些攻擊的太陽\n\n29\n00:10:29,705 --> 00:10:54,678\n不過目前為止因為這公職所謂的DDOS阻斷式攻擊其實目前的傷害都不大而且很快就能夠恢復所以大概目前是沒有什麼資料外洩或是被嚴重入侵的事件不過我們在持續在關注啦但是治安還是要大家一起努力那當然就是說我也希望說趁這個機會講說我們有一個很重要的法案叫做治安法的修法這個法其實對\n\n30\n00:10:56,239 --> 00:11:15,913\n對我們在要求民間業者的那個資安人員的安排跟培訓很重要所以希望大院能夠儘速通過資安法讓我們有法能夠去監督這些民間機關OK那我想就是兩個角度嘛一個角度立法院我們自己會努力希望我們各黨派都可以支持那第二個角度就是說其實站在\n\n31\n00:11:16,673 --> 00:11:16,773\n許智傑\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4561\t28940\t謝謝主席 我們先請翁柏忠主委好 翁主委委員好主委好那個 有人爆料說你那個送禮用廠商去買單這是怎麼回事\n30779\t56062\t好 謝謝委員給我這個澄清的機會那首先我有發新聞稿澄清沒有這件絕無此事另外我也主動的將相關的單據還有整個的過程送給政風去調查及說明原委那特資會的使用都是合乎法令的\n57063\t63351\t所以這個是合法啦齁我先請教一下你到底是買這個海產送誰呃呃快證\n67574\t91315\t那個這個海產都是全部送給我們的同仁就是在年結期送給你們NCC裡面的同仁我們NCC的同仁那你這個主管不錯啊會買禮物送給同仁我坦白講我的特製會不多但是三結的時候我們會買一些水果或者是一些農特產送給我們的同仁\n92301\t114153\tOK因為坦白講我本來不知道你送誰想說奇怪NCC到底要送禮物給誰結果是送給同仁其實用你自己的特資費送給同仁我是覺得這一點還不錯啦是可以給你鼓勵啦那當然就是說其他的部分就是一切依法嘛所以你就是有照你特資費那個支出都有憑證嘛\n115574\t133530\t報告委員有這件事情我有信心我經得起考驗絕對沒有不法希望對同仁好的態度可以繼續下去同仁感同身受還不錯另外我請教一下主委數位港就是臺灣\n140140\t158957\t所有的海南登陸站都在北部南部只有一個仿山那量不夠那如果說我們高雄將來要發展我們的AI首都就是我們希望高雄是一個非常條件很好的地方那數位港NCC有沒有什麼概念就是設海南登陸站由誰來設、怎麼設、什麼時候設\n162214\t175911\t跟委員報告其實這個海嵐的登陸站其實在台灣就像委員講的都是集中在北部但是在南部確實也有需要那我想說上次也有討論到在興達港\n178734\t205078\t就是附近的那個就是煤船進來的那個渠道是從國安的角度從任性的角度從將來我們所有的超級電腦資料中心需要的角度那這個角度是不是高雄需要設一個海南登陸站有沒有這個必要南部確實是有需要因為這樣分散這樣子假使是說你那個海南登陸站都是集中在北部的某些點沒有分散的話\n205618\t222360\t那這樣確實在任性發展的角度是所以就是從NCC的角度是100%贊成我們南部設海南登陸站因為要發展AI你一定要有海南進來而且要有規模的IDC進來所以NCC會贊成會幫忙\n223882\t245116\tNCC是站在因為電管法上面有一個公眾電信那個網路查驗及使用管理辦法我們會來協助重點是誰可以來設這個海覽登陸站這個部分的話就是要電信公司他假使願意提出申請電信公司是民間的\n246516\t267813\t其實這個部分有很多的方式啦也是可以三家電信公司合資不過這個是關鍵基礎設施海嵐登陸站是關鍵基礎設施一定要就是說要是要本國的電信事業來ON比較好那關鍵基礎設施韌性的發展那到底是誰可以來主導\n269747\t290276\t是NCC可以來主導還是數法部可以來主導因為這個NCC是監理單位這個有牽涉到就是整個AI產業的發展那或許是NCC管準不準嘛對不對我們就是那個Landing Station那個海欄站而已是不是請部長那個數法部部長就說這個到底可不可以設\n295083\t300563\t那個 報告委員我是樂觀其成啦齁 這個從開展重新拉上 跟部長報告我現在不知道誰來設阿\n301857\t327461\t那個我們過去的例子像那個登陸站過去都是我有去查一下過去大概都是由電信公司提出申請然後去建設然後經過NCC核准那它建好以後我們速劃過去我們現在從國家的角度來思考啦就是它是韌性建設它是關鍵基礎設施國家的角度必須要有設從這個角度來看那如果民間都沒有人主動那我政府應該怎麼做\n327990\t355978\t所以那個報告委員就我有去調查那個各式各樣的可能的方法那有一個方法就是那個我們那個就是像其實我那時候有建議說其實我們看到一個比如說像高雄有一個叫做戀愛5G的雅灣的5G這種方式這個model其實很好的model就是說建一個園區然後用5G IoT的這樣一個model去建那以這個模範是由高雄市政府提出這樣一個計畫高雄市政府提出\n356198\t359718\t那如果高雄市政府說配合中央那中央有沒有想法\n361641\t388659\t因為這個經費還是要申請公建預算所以要有單位去申請公建預算那個我現在跟部長報告啦這個是關鍵基礎設施這個是韌性建設這個是有關於國安跟資安甚至將來所有的AI的發展這對國家來講是重要的對不對完全同意那總是國家有個單位我說有人願意承擔來push這件事情\n391109\t404317\t報告委員就是這個剛剛我講過就是這個東西這個東西本來就是應該要建設但是應該一起大家一起合作去做那我們願意來協調所以吼那個跟部長報告我現在問了很多單位\n405497\t430674\t蘇貨部說願意協調 OKNCC說願意幫忙 OK市政委覺得這個重要 OK那港務公司也覺得這個需要他們的地他們也OK然後那個台電也認為說在我興達廠這裡電量充足是全國最好的一個場所也OK現在沒有人掛鈴鐺誰來掛鈴鐺誰來主導這件事那我從中央的角度就是說我今天假設啦\n431769\t455248\t那個總統問你說 那個書法部你來主導 或者是有誰可以來主導 你要怎麼回答這個報告委員 就是我想我們再來開個會協調 看哪個單位出來出來 你知道我的意思嗎對那個我問你 你是可以說這是誰負責誰負責 看誰那如果總統問你說這個是國家中央政策 一定要有那書法部的部長應該怎麼樣來協助承擔來幫忙\n458547\t474701\t就是我們出來就是來協調各單位,然後...是不是?對,要協調...所以部長你懂我意思嗎?了解了解,但是就是說...我問你,你的回答的方式就是,這個大家都可以但是如果總統問你說這是國家重要建設,一定要做那從數話部的角度要怎麼協助?\n476035\t503627\t那我們就是剛剛講就是依照過去的過去那個海南上岸一開始都是電信公司去主導沒關係如果假設啦總統說那這件事就拜託你幫忙協調成功這樣子你可以答應嗎我們就我們當然會會會盡力部長你懂我意思嗎因為我現在其實我已經很努力找了很多單位了已經萬事俱備只欠東風啦那東風呢如果是有人有肩膀把他扛下來這個東這個就是東風\n506314\t533520\t否則如果都沒有人扛下來就是東風無力百花殘所以報告委員我們在就是說在近期我們會再來好不好再開一個會拜託這是我說的再說一遍這是國家重要建設對不對完全同意這是關鍵基礎測試對不對這是對國家韌性發展很重要對不對那這個其實對於甚至在國內的AI競技力到國外的競爭力都很重要對不對好\n534780\t557316\t總統如果跟你說阿這個很重要勒你對不對覺得對不對對嘛那現在沒有人做應該怎麼做就是就是說依照我剛講的那個我們過去調查過去的建立的方式拜託那個部長因為我找不到人承擔我們在這個其實我剛講的最合適那不管我們中央單位怎麼協調就拜託部長來主導這樣OK嗎\n559091\t583610\t我們再來協調可以你來幫忙協調到這件事情成功吧不然我現在你看我做了這麼多的努力已經各個單位我都問了走了一圈了啦那最後我就還在找到底誰可以把這件事情承擔下來那這個對台灣對城市對將來國家的發展都一定非常的好而且也非常的重要但是就是要有人做好不好\n585110\t607956\t這個拜託部長來主導協調啦好不好好那最後還有一個小事齁聯電、偽創、台說化都受到駭客的攻擊那這個在也是治安的問題那速發部有辦法處理嗎現在就是我們有觀察到這樣一個攻擊因為攻擊從政府攻擊開始擴散到民間齁那\n608876\t629245\t我剛有講過就是我們第一個有所謂情資分享我們有聯防的機制然後公司協力的聯防機制所以也歡迎就是希望各個單位民間公司來加入我們這樣一個聯防的所謂設的這樣一個機制能夠分享這樣攻擊情資遇到攻擊的時候我們會提供一些情資跟協助來分散這些攻擊的太陽\n629705\t654678\t不過目前為止因為這公職所謂的DDOS阻斷式攻擊其實目前的傷害都不大而且很快就能夠恢復所以大概目前是沒有什麼資料外洩或是被嚴重入侵的事件不過我們在持續在關注啦但是治安還是要大家一起努力那當然就是說我也希望說趁這個機會講說我們有一個很重要的法案叫做治安法的修法這個法其實對\n656239\t675913\t對我們在要求民間業者的那個資安人員的安排跟培訓很重要所以希望大院能夠儘速通過資安法讓我們有法能夠去監督這些民間機關OK那我想就是兩個角度嘛一個角度立法院我們自己會努力希望我們各黨派都可以支持那第二個角度就是說其實站在\n676673\t676773\t許智傑\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們先請翁柏忠主委好 翁主委委員好主委好那個 有人爆料說你那個送禮用廠商去買單這是怎麼回事\n好 謝謝委員給我這個澄清的機會那首先我有發新聞稿澄清沒有這件絕無此事另外我也主動的將相關的單據還有整個的過程送給政風去調查及說明原委那特資會的使用都是合乎法令的\n所以這個是合法啦齁我先請教一下你到底是買這個海產送誰呃呃快證\n那個這個海產都是全部送給我們的同仁就是在年結期送給你們NCC裡面的同仁我們NCC的同仁那你這個主管不錯啊會買禮物送給同仁我坦白講我的特製會不多但是三結的時候我們會買一些水果或者是一些農特產送給我們的同仁\nOK因為坦白講我本來不知道你送誰想說奇怪NCC到底要送禮物給誰結果是送給同仁其實用你自己的特資費送給同仁我是覺得這一點還不錯啦是可以給你鼓勵啦那當然就是說其他的部分就是一切依法嘛所以你就是有照你特資費那個支出都有憑證嘛\n報告委員有這件事情我有信心我經得起考驗絕對沒有不法希望對同仁好的態度可以繼續下去同仁感同身受還不錯另外我請教一下主委數位港就是臺灣\n所有的海南登陸站都在北部南部只有一個仿山那量不夠那如果說我們高雄將來要發展我們的AI首都就是我們希望高雄是一個非常條件很好的地方那數位港NCC有沒有什麼概念就是設海南登陸站由誰來設、怎麼設、什麼時候設\n跟委員報告其實這個海嵐的登陸站其實在台灣就像委員講的都是集中在北部但是在南部確實也有需要那我想說上次也有討論到在興達港\n就是附近的那個就是煤船進來的那個渠道是從國安的角度從任性的角度從將來我們所有的超級電腦資料中心需要的角度那這個角度是不是高雄需要設一個海南登陸站有沒有這個必要南部確實是有需要因為這樣分散這樣子假使是說你那個海南登陸站都是集中在北部的某些點沒有分散的話\n那這樣確實在任性發展的角度是所以就是從NCC的角度是100%贊成我們南部設海南登陸站因為要發展AI你一定要有海南進來而且要有規模的IDC進來所以NCC會贊成會幫忙\nNCC是站在因為電管法上面有一個公眾電信那個網路查驗及使用管理辦法我們會來協助重點是誰可以來設這個海覽登陸站這個部分的話就是要電信公司他假使願意提出申請電信公司是民間的\n其實這個部分有很多的方式啦也是可以三家電信公司合資不過這個是關鍵基礎設施海嵐登陸站是關鍵基礎設施一定要就是說要是要本國的電信事業來ON比較好那關鍵基礎設施韌性的發展那到底是誰可以來主導\n是NCC可以來主導還是數法部可以來主導因為這個NCC是監理單位這個有牽涉到就是整個AI產業的發展那或許是NCC管準不準嘛對不對我們就是那個Landing Station那個海欄站而已是不是請部長那個數法部部長就說這個到底可不可以設\n那個 報告委員我是樂觀其成啦齁 這個從開展重新拉上 跟部長報告我現在不知道誰來設阿\n那個我們過去的例子像那個登陸站過去都是我有去查一下過去大概都是由電信公司提出申請然後去建設然後經過NCC核准那它建好以後我們速劃過去我們現在從國家的角度來思考啦就是它是韌性建設它是關鍵基礎設施國家的角度必須要有設從這個角度來看那如果民間都沒有人主動那我政府應該怎麼做\n所以那個報告委員就我有去調查那個各式各樣的可能的方法那有一個方法就是那個我們那個就是像其實我那時候有建議說其實我們看到一個比如說像高雄有一個叫做戀愛5G的雅灣的5G這種方式這個model其實很好的model就是說建一個園區然後用5G IoT的這樣一個model去建那以這個模範是由高雄市政府提出這樣一個計畫高雄市政府提出\n那如果高雄市政府說配合中央那中央有沒有想法\n因為這個經費還是要申請公建預算所以要有單位去申請公建預算那個我現在跟部長報告啦這個是關鍵基礎設施這個是韌性建設這個是有關於國安跟資安甚至將來所有的AI的發展這對國家來講是重要的對不對完全同意那總是國家有個單位我說有人願意承擔來push這件事情\n報告委員就是這個剛剛我講過就是這個東西這個東西本來就是應該要建設但是應該一起大家一起合作去做那我們願意來協調所以吼那個跟部長報告我現在問了很多單位\n蘇貨部說願意協調 OKNCC說願意幫忙 OK市政委覺得這個重要 OK那港務公司也覺得這個需要他們的地他們也OK然後那個台電也認為說在我興達廠這裡電量充足是全國最好的一個場所也OK現在沒有人掛鈴鐺誰來掛鈴鐺誰來主導這件事那我從中央的角度就是說我今天假設啦\n那個總統問你說 那個書法部你來主導 或者是有誰可以來主導 你要怎麼回答這個報告委員 就是我想我們再來開個會協調 看哪個單位出來出來 你知道我的意思嗎對那個我問你 你是可以說這是誰負責誰負責 看誰那如果總統問你說這個是國家中央政策 一定要有那書法部的部長應該怎麼樣來協助承擔來幫忙\n就是我們出來就是來協調各單位,然後...是不是?對,要協調...所以部長你懂我意思嗎?了解了解,但是就是說...我問你,你的回答的方式就是,這個大家都可以但是如果總統問你說這是國家重要建設,一定要做那從數話部的角度要怎麼協助?\n那我們就是剛剛講就是依照過去的過去那個海南上岸一開始都是電信公司去主導沒關係如果假設啦總統說那這件事就拜託你幫忙協調成功這樣子你可以答應嗎我們就我們當然會會會盡力部長你懂我意思嗎因為我現在其實我已經很努力找了很多單位了已經萬事俱備只欠東風啦那東風呢如果是有人有肩膀把他扛下來這個東這個就是東風\n否則如果都沒有人扛下來就是東風無力百花殘所以報告委員我們在就是說在近期我們會再來好不好再開一個會拜託這是我說的再說一遍這是國家重要建設對不對完全同意這是關鍵基礎測試對不對這是對國家韌性發展很重要對不對那這個其實對於甚至在國內的AI競技力到國外的競爭力都很重要對不對好\n總統如果跟你說阿這個很重要勒你對不對覺得對不對對嘛那現在沒有人做應該怎麼做就是就是說依照我剛講的那個我們過去調查過去的建立的方式拜託那個部長因為我找不到人承擔我們在這個其實我剛講的最合適那不管我們中央單位怎麼協調就拜託部長來主導這樣OK嗎\n我們再來協調可以你來幫忙協調到這件事情成功吧不然我現在你看我做了這麼多的努力已經各個單位我都問了走了一圈了啦那最後我就還在找到底誰可以把這件事情承擔下來那這個對台灣對城市對將來國家的發展都一定非常的好而且也非常的重要但是就是要有人做好不好\n這個拜託部長來主導協調啦好不好好那最後還有一個小事齁聯電、偽創、台說化都受到駭客的攻擊那這個在也是治安的問題那速發部有辦法處理嗎現在就是我們有觀察到這樣一個攻擊因為攻擊從政府攻擊開始擴散到民間齁那\n我剛有講過就是我們第一個有所謂情資分享我們有聯防的機制然後公司協力的聯防機制所以也歡迎就是希望各個單位民間公司來加入我們這樣一個聯防的所謂設的這樣一個機制能夠分享這樣攻擊情資遇到攻擊的時候我們會提供一些情資跟協助來分散這些攻擊的太陽\n不過目前為止因為這公職所謂的DDOS阻斷式攻擊其實目前的傷害都不大而且很快就能夠恢復所以大概目前是沒有什麼資料外洩或是被嚴重入侵的事件不過我們在持續在關注啦但是治安還是要大家一起努力那當然就是說我也希望說趁這個機會講說我們有一個很重要的法案叫做治安法的修法這個法其實對\n對我們在要求民間業者的那個資安人員的安排跟培訓很重要所以希望大院能夠儘速通過資安法讓我們有法能夠去監督這些民間機關OK那我想就是兩個角度嘛一個角度立法院我們自己會努力希望我們各黨派都可以支持那第二個角度就是說其實站在\n許智傑\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.561 --> 00:28.940\n謝謝主席我們先請翁柏忠主委好翁主委委員好主委好那個有人爆料說你那個送禮用廠商去買單這是怎麼回事\n\n00:30.779 --> 00:56.062\n好謝謝委員給我這個澄清的機會那首先我有發新聞稿澄清沒有這件絕無此事另外我也主動的將相關的單據還有整個的過程送給政風去調查及說明原委那特資會的使用都是合乎法令的\n\n00:57.063 --> 01:03.351\n所以這個是合法啦齁我先請教一下你到底是買這個海產送誰呃呃快證\n\n01:07.574 --> 01:31.315\n那個這個海產都是全部送給我們的同仁就是在年結期送給你們NCC裡面的同仁我們NCC的同仁那你這個主管不錯啊會買禮物送給同仁我坦白講我的特製會不多但是三結的時候我們會買一些水果或者是一些農特產送給我們的同仁\n\n01:32.301 --> 01:54.153\nOK因為坦白講我本來不知道你送誰想說奇怪NCC到底要送禮物給誰結果是送給同仁其實用你自己的特資費送給同仁我是覺得這一點還不錯啦是可以給你鼓勵啦那當然就是說其他的部分就是一切依法嘛所以你就是有照你特資費那個支出都有憑證嘛\n\n01:55.574 --> 02:13.530\n報告委員有這件事情我有信心我經得起考驗絕對沒有不法希望對同仁好的態度可以繼續下去同仁感同身受還不錯另外我請教一下主委數位港就是臺灣\n\n02:20.140 --> 02:38.957\n所有的海南登陸站都在北部南部只有一個仿山那量不夠那如果說我們高雄將來要發展我們的AI首都就是我們希望高雄是一個非常條件很好的地方那數位港NCC有沒有什麼概念就是設海南登陸站由誰來設、怎麼設、什麼時候設\n\n02:42.214 --> 02:55.911\n跟委員報告其實這個海嵐的登陸站其實在台灣就像委員講的都是集中在北部但是在南部確實也有需要那我想說上次也有討論到在興達港\n\n02:58.734 --> 03:25.078\n就是附近的那個就是煤船進來的那個渠道是從國安的角度從任性的角度從將來我們所有的超級電腦資料中心需要的角度那這個角度是不是高雄需要設一個海南登陸站有沒有這個必要南部確實是有需要因為這樣分散這樣子假使是說你那個海南登陸站都是集中在北部的某些點沒有分散的話\n\n03:25.618 --> 03:42.360\n那這樣確實在任性發展的角度是所以就是從NCC的角度是100%贊成我們南部設海南登陸站因為要發展AI你一定要有海南進來而且要有規模的IDC進來所以NCC會贊成會幫忙\n\n03:43.882 --> 04:05.116\nNCC是站在因為電管法上面有一個公眾電信那個網路查驗及使用管理辦法我們會來協助重點是誰可以來設這個海覽登陸站這個部分的話就是要電信公司他假使願意提出申請電信公司是民間的\n\n04:06.516 --> 04:27.813\n其實這個部分有很多的方式啦也是可以三家電信公司合資不過這個是關鍵基礎設施海嵐登陸站是關鍵基礎設施一定要就是說要是要本國的電信事業來ON比較好那關鍵基礎設施韌性的發展那到底是誰可以來主導\n\n04:29.747 --> 04:50.276\n是NCC可以來主導還是數法部可以來主導因為這個NCC是監理單位這個有牽涉到就是整個AI產業的發展那或許是NCC管準不準嘛對不對我們就是那個LandingStation那個海欄站而已是不是請部長那個數法部部長就說這個到底可不可以設\n\n04:55.083 --> 05:00.563\n那個報告委員我是樂觀其成啦齁這個從開展重新拉上跟部長報告我現在不知道誰來設阿\n\n05:01.857 --> 05:27.461\n那個我們過去的例子像那個登陸站過去都是我有去查一下過去大概都是由電信公司提出申請然後去建設然後經過NCC核准那它建好以後我們速劃過去我們現在從國家的角度來思考啦就是它是韌性建設它是關鍵基礎設施國家的角度必須要有設從這個角度來看那如果民間都沒有人主動那我政府應該怎麼做\n\n05:27.990 --> 05:55.978\n所以那個報告委員就我有去調查那個各式各樣的可能的方法那有一個方法就是那個我們那個就是像其實我那時候有建議說其實我們看到一個比如說像高雄有一個叫做戀愛5G的雅灣的5G這種方式這個model其實很好的model就是說建一個園區然後用5GIoT的這樣一個model去建那以這個模範是由高雄市政府提出這樣一個計畫高雄市政府提出\n\n05:56.198 --> 05:59.718\n那如果高雄市政府說配合中央那中央有沒有想法\n\n06:01.641 --> 06:28.659\n因為這個經費還是要申請公建預算所以要有單位去申請公建預算那個我現在跟部長報告啦這個是關鍵基礎設施這個是韌性建設這個是有關於國安跟資安甚至將來所有的AI的發展這對國家來講是重要的對不對完全同意那總是國家有個單位我說有人願意承擔來push這件事情\n\n06:31.109 --> 06:44.317\n報告委員就是這個剛剛我講過就是這個東西這個東西本來就是應該要建設但是應該一起大家一起合作去做那我們願意來協調所以吼那個跟部長報告我現在問了很多單位\n\n06:45.497 --> 07:10.674\n蘇貨部說願意協調OKNCC說願意幫忙OK市政委覺得這個重要OK那港務公司也覺得這個需要他們的地他們也OK然後那個台電也認為說在我興達廠這裡電量充足是全國最好的一個場所也OK現在沒有人掛鈴鐺誰來掛鈴鐺誰來主導這件事那我從中央的角度就是說我今天假設啦\n\n07:11.769 --> 07:35.248\n那個總統問你說那個書法部你來主導或者是有誰可以來主導你要怎麼回答這個報告委員就是我想我們再來開個會協調看哪個單位出來出來你知道我的意思嗎對那個我問你你是可以說這是誰負責誰負責看誰那如果總統問你說這個是國家中央政策一定要有那書法部的部長應該怎麼樣來協助承擔來幫忙\n\n07:38.547 --> 07:54.701\n就是我們出來就是來協調各單位,然後...是不是?對,要協調...所以部長你懂我意思嗎?了解了解,但是就是說...我問你,你的回答的方式就是,這個大家都可以但是如果總統問你說這是國家重要建設,一定要做那從數話部的角度要怎麼協助?\n\n07:56.035 --> 08:23.627\n那我們就是剛剛講就是依照過去的過去那個海南上岸一開始都是電信公司去主導沒關係如果假設啦總統說那這件事就拜託你幫忙協調成功這樣子你可以答應嗎我們就我們當然會會會盡力部長你懂我意思嗎因為我現在其實我已經很努力找了很多單位了已經萬事俱備只欠東風啦那東風呢如果是有人有肩膀把他扛下來這個東這個就是東風\n\n08:26.314 --> 08:53.520\n否則如果都沒有人扛下來就是東風無力百花殘所以報告委員我們在就是說在近期我們會再來好不好再開一個會拜託這是我說的再說一遍這是國家重要建設對不對完全同意這是關鍵基礎測試對不對這是對國家韌性發展很重要對不對那這個其實對於甚至在國內的AI競技力到國外的競爭力都很重要對不對好\n\n08:54.780 --> 09:17.316\n總統如果跟你說阿這個很重要勒你對不對覺得對不對對嘛那現在沒有人做應該怎麼做就是就是說依照我剛講的那個我們過去調查過去的建立的方式拜託那個部長因為我找不到人承擔我們在這個其實我剛講的最合適那不管我們中央單位怎麼協調就拜託部長來主導這樣OK嗎\n\n09:19.091 --> 09:43.610\n我們再來協調可以你來幫忙協調到這件事情成功吧不然我現在你看我做了這麼多的努力已經各個單位我都問了走了一圈了啦那最後我就還在找到底誰可以把這件事情承擔下來那這個對台灣對城市對將來國家的發展都一定非常的好而且也非常的重要但是就是要有人做好不好\n\n09:45.110 --> 10:07.956\n這個拜託部長來主導協調啦好不好好那最後還有一個小事齁聯電、偽創、台說化都受到駭客的攻擊那這個在也是治安的問題那速發部有辦法處理嗎現在就是我們有觀察到這樣一個攻擊因為攻擊從政府攻擊開始擴散到民間齁那\n\n10:08.876 --> 10:29.245\n我剛有講過就是我們第一個有所謂情資分享我們有聯防的機制然後公司協力的聯防機制所以也歡迎就是希望各個單位民間公司來加入我們這樣一個聯防的所謂設的這樣一個機制能夠分享這樣攻擊情資遇到攻擊的時候我們會提供一些情資跟協助來分散這些攻擊的太陽\n\n10:29.705 --> 10:54.678\n不過目前為止因為這公職所謂的DDOS阻斷式攻擊其實目前的傷害都不大而且很快就能夠恢復所以大概目前是沒有什麼資料外洩或是被嚴重入侵的事件不過我們在持續在關注啦但是治安還是要大家一起努力那當然就是說我也希望說趁這個機會講說我們有一個很重要的法案叫做治安法的修法這個法其實對\n\n10:56.239 --> 11:15.913\n對我們在要求民間業者的那個資安人員的安排跟培訓很重要所以希望大院能夠儘速通過資安法讓我們有法能夠去監督這些民間機關OK那我想就是兩個角度嘛一個角度立法院我們自己會努力希望我們各黨派都可以支持那第二個角度就是說其實站在\n\n11:16.673 --> 11:16.773\n許智傑\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.561,"end":28.94,"text":"謝謝主席 我們先請翁柏忠主委好 翁主委委員好主委好那個 有人爆料說你那個送禮用廠商去買單這是怎麼回事"},{"start":30.779,"end":56.062,"text":"好 謝謝委員給我這個澄清的機會那首先我有發新聞稿澄清沒有這件絕無此事另外我也主動的將相關的單據還有整個的過程送給政風去調查及說明原委那特資會的使用都是合乎法令的"},{"start":57.063,"end":63.351,"text":"所以這個是合法啦齁我先請教一下你到底是買這個海產送誰呃呃快證"},{"start":67.574,"end":91.315,"text":"那個這個海產都是全部送給我們的同仁就是在年結期送給你們NCC裡面的同仁我們NCC的同仁那你這個主管不錯啊會買禮物送給同仁我坦白講我的特製會不多但是三結的時候我們會買一些水果或者是一些農特產送給我們的同仁"},{"start":92.301,"end":114.153,"text":"OK因為坦白講我本來不知道你送誰想說奇怪NCC到底要送禮物給誰結果是送給同仁其實用你自己的特資費送給同仁我是覺得這一點還不錯啦是可以給你鼓勵啦那當然就是說其他的部分就是一切依法嘛所以你就是有照你特資費那個支出都有憑證嘛"},{"start":115.574,"end":133.53,"text":"報告委員有這件事情我有信心我經得起考驗絕對沒有不法希望對同仁好的態度可以繼續下去同仁感同身受還不錯另外我請教一下主委數位港就是臺灣"},{"start":140.14,"end":158.957,"text":"所有的海南登陸站都在北部南部只有一個仿山那量不夠那如果說我們高雄將來要發展我們的AI首都就是我們希望高雄是一個非常條件很好的地方那數位港NCC有沒有什麼概念就是設海南登陸站由誰來設、怎麼設、什麼時候設"},{"start":162.214,"end":175.911,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個海嵐的登陸站其實在台灣就像委員講的都是集中在北部但是在南部確實也有需要那我想說上次也有討論到在興達港"},{"start":178.734,"end":205.078,"text":"就是附近的那個就是煤船進來的那個渠道是從國安的角度從任性的角度從將來我們所有的超級電腦資料中心需要的角度那這個角度是不是高雄需要設一個海南登陸站有沒有這個必要南部確實是有需要因為這樣分散這樣子假使是說你那個海南登陸站都是集中在北部的某些點沒有分散的話"},{"start":205.618,"end":222.36,"text":"那這樣確實在任性發展的角度是所以就是從NCC的角度是100%贊成我們南部設海南登陸站因為要發展AI你一定要有海南進來而且要有規模的IDC進來所以NCC會贊成會幫忙"},{"start":223.882,"end":245.116,"text":"NCC是站在因為電管法上面有一個公眾電信那個網路查驗及使用管理辦法我們會來協助重點是誰可以來設這個海覽登陸站這個部分的話就是要電信公司他假使願意提出申請電信公司是民間的"},{"start":246.516,"end":267.813,"text":"其實這個部分有很多的方式啦也是可以三家電信公司合資不過這個是關鍵基礎設施海嵐登陸站是關鍵基礎設施一定要就是說要是要本國的電信事業來ON比較好那關鍵基礎設施韌性的發展那到底是誰可以來主導"},{"start":269.747,"end":290.276,"text":"是NCC可以來主導還是數法部可以來主導因為這個NCC是監理單位這個有牽涉到就是整個AI產業的發展那或許是NCC管準不準嘛對不對我們就是那個Landing Station那個海欄站而已是不是請部長那個數法部部長就說這個到底可不可以設"},{"start":295.083,"end":300.563,"text":"那個 報告委員我是樂觀其成啦齁 這個從開展重新拉上 跟部長報告我現在不知道誰來設阿"},{"start":301.857,"end":327.461,"text":"那個我們過去的例子像那個登陸站過去都是我有去查一下過去大概都是由電信公司提出申請然後去建設然後經過NCC核准那它建好以後我們速劃過去我們現在從國家的角度來思考啦就是它是韌性建設它是關鍵基礎設施國家的角度必須要有設從這個角度來看那如果民間都沒有人主動那我政府應該怎麼做"},{"start":327.99,"end":355.978,"text":"所以那個報告委員就我有去調查那個各式各樣的可能的方法那有一個方法就是那個我們那個就是像其實我那時候有建議說其實我們看到一個比如說像高雄有一個叫做戀愛5G的雅灣的5G這種方式這個model其實很好的model就是說建一個園區然後用5G IoT的這樣一個model去建那以這個模範是由高雄市政府提出這樣一個計畫高雄市政府提出"},{"start":356.198,"end":359.718,"text":"那如果高雄市政府說配合中央那中央有沒有想法"},{"start":361.641,"end":388.659,"text":"因為這個經費還是要申請公建預算所以要有單位去申請公建預算那個我現在跟部長報告啦這個是關鍵基礎設施這個是韌性建設這個是有關於國安跟資安甚至將來所有的AI的發展這對國家來講是重要的對不對完全同意那總是國家有個單位我說有人願意承擔來push這件事情"},{"start":391.109,"end":404.317,"text":"報告委員就是這個剛剛我講過就是這個東西這個東西本來就是應該要建設但是應該一起大家一起合作去做那我們願意來協調所以吼那個跟部長報告我現在問了很多單位"},{"start":405.497,"end":430.674,"text":"蘇貨部說願意協調 OKNCC說願意幫忙 OK市政委覺得這個重要 OK那港務公司也覺得這個需要他們的地他們也OK然後那個台電也認為說在我興達廠這裡電量充足是全國最好的一個場所也OK現在沒有人掛鈴鐺誰來掛鈴鐺誰來主導這件事那我從中央的角度就是說我今天假設啦"},{"start":431.769,"end":455.248,"text":"那個總統問你說 那個書法部你來主導 或者是有誰可以來主導 你要怎麼回答這個報告委員 就是我想我們再來開個會協調 看哪個單位出來出來 你知道我的意思嗎對那個我問你 你是可以說這是誰負責誰負責 看誰那如果總統問你說這個是國家中央政策 一定要有那書法部的部長應該怎麼樣來協助承擔來幫忙"},{"start":458.547,"end":474.701,"text":"就是我們出來就是來協調各單位,然後...是不是?對,要協調...所以部長你懂我意思嗎?了解了解,但是就是說...我問你,你的回答的方式就是,這個大家都可以但是如果總統問你說這是國家重要建設,一定要做那從數話部的角度要怎麼協助?"},{"start":476.035,"end":503.627,"text":"那我們就是剛剛講就是依照過去的過去那個海南上岸一開始都是電信公司去主導沒關係如果假設啦總統說那這件事就拜託你幫忙協調成功這樣子你可以答應嗎我們就我們當然會會會盡力部長你懂我意思嗎因為我現在其實我已經很努力找了很多單位了已經萬事俱備只欠東風啦那東風呢如果是有人有肩膀把他扛下來這個東這個就是東風"},{"start":506.314,"end":533.52,"text":"否則如果都沒有人扛下來就是東風無力百花殘所以報告委員我們在就是說在近期我們會再來好不好再開一個會拜託這是我說的再說一遍這是國家重要建設對不對完全同意這是關鍵基礎測試對不對這是對國家韌性發展很重要對不對那這個其實對於甚至在國內的AI競技力到國外的競爭力都很重要對不對好"},{"start":534.78,"end":557.316,"text":"總統如果跟你說阿這個很重要勒你對不對覺得對不對對嘛那現在沒有人做應該怎麼做就是就是說依照我剛講的那個我們過去調查過去的建立的方式拜託那個部長因為我找不到人承擔我們在這個其實我剛講的最合適那不管我們中央單位怎麼協調就拜託部長來主導這樣OK嗎"},{"start":559.091,"end":583.61,"text":"我們再來協調可以你來幫忙協調到這件事情成功吧不然我現在你看我做了這麼多的努力已經各個單位我都問了走了一圈了啦那最後我就還在找到底誰可以把這件事情承擔下來那這個對台灣對城市對將來國家的發展都一定非常的好而且也非常的重要但是就是要有人做好不好"},{"start":585.11,"end":607.956,"text":"這個拜託部長來主導協調啦好不好好那最後還有一個小事齁聯電、偽創、台說化都受到駭客的攻擊那這個在也是治安的問題那速發部有辦法處理嗎現在就是我們有觀察到這樣一個攻擊因為攻擊從政府攻擊開始擴散到民間齁那"},{"start":608.876,"end":629.245,"text":"我剛有講過就是我們第一個有所謂情資分享我們有聯防的機制然後公司協力的聯防機制所以也歡迎就是希望各個單位民間公司來加入我們這樣一個聯防的所謂設的這樣一個機制能夠分享這樣攻擊情資遇到攻擊的時候我們會提供一些情資跟協助來分散這些攻擊的太陽"},{"start":629.705,"end":654.678,"text":"不過目前為止因為這公職所謂的DDOS阻斷式攻擊其實目前的傷害都不大而且很快就能夠恢復所以大概目前是沒有什麼資料外洩或是被嚴重入侵的事件不過我們在持續在關注啦但是治安還是要大家一起努力那當然就是說我也希望說趁這個機會講說我們有一個很重要的法案叫做治安法的修法這個法其實對"},{"start":656.239,"end":675.913,"text":"對我們在要求民間業者的那個資安人員的安排跟培訓很重要所以希望大院能夠儘速通過資安法讓我們有法能夠去監督這些民間機關OK那我想就是兩個角度嘛一個角度立法院我們自己會努力希望我們各黨派都可以支持那第二個角度就是說其實站在"},{"start":676.673,"end":676.773,"text":"許智傑"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:55:39 - 10:07:17","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155101,"gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（9時55分）謝謝主席，我們先請翁柏宗主委。"],["主席：請翁主委。"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：主委好。有人爆料說你送禮用廠商去買單，這是怎麼回事？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：謝謝委員給我這個澄清的機會，首先，我有發新聞稿澄清絕無此事，另外，我也主動將相關單據還有整個過程送政風調查及說明原委，特支費的使用都是合乎法令的。"],["許委員智傑：所以這個是合法。我先請教一下，你到底是買海產送誰？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：饋贈海產全部都是送給我們的同仁。"],["許委員智傑：送給你們NCC裡面的同仁？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：我們NCC的同仁。"],["許委員智傑：你這個主管不錯，會買禮物送給同仁。"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：我坦白講，我的特支費不多，但是三節的時候，我們會買一些水果或是一些農特產送給我們的同仁。"],["許委員智傑：OK，坦白講，我本來不知道你送誰，我想說奇怪NCC到底要送禮物給誰，結果是送給同仁，你用自己的特支費送給同仁，我覺得這一點還不錯，是可以給你鼓勵，當然其他的部分要一切依法，所以特支費的支出都有憑證嗎？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：報告委員，有，這件事情我有信心，我禁得起考驗，絕對沒有不法。"],["許委員智傑：OK，我希望對同仁好的這個態度可以繼續下去，讓同仁感同身受還不錯。另外，請教主委有關於數位港的問題，臺灣所有的海纜登陸站都在北部，南部只有一個枋山，所以量不夠，如果高雄將來希望發展成為AI首都，高雄是一個條件很好的地方，針對數位港NCC有沒有什麼概念，海纜登陸站由誰來設、怎麼設、什麼時候設？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：跟委員報告，其實海纜登陸站在臺灣就像委員講的都是集中在北部，但是南部確實也有需要，我們上次也有討論到，在興達港附近沒船進來的渠道上面……"],["許委員智傑：這是從國安的角度、從韌性的角度。"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：對。"],["許委員智傑：從將來我們所有超級電腦資料中心需要的角度，從這個角度來看，高雄是不是需要設一個海纜登陸站，有沒有這個必要？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：南部確實是有需要。"],["許委員智傑：有這個必要？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：因為這樣可以分散，假設海纜登陸站都是集中在北部的某些點，沒有分散的話確實在……"],["許委員智傑：從韌性發展也不好。"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：從韌性發展的角度，南部是有需要。"],["許委員智傑：所以NCC的角度是100%贊成南部設海纜登陸站？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：因為要發展AI一定要有海纜進來，而且要有規模的IDC機房。"],["許委員智傑：所以NCC會贊成、會幫忙？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：站在NCC的角度，電管法有公眾電信網路查驗及使用管理辦法，我們會來協助。"],["許委員智傑：主委，我們把時間縮短，重點是誰可以來設海纜登陸站？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：這個部分電信公司假使願意提出申請……"],["許委員智傑：電信公司是民間的。"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：其實這個部分有很多的方式，也是可以三家電信公司合資，不過這個是關鍵基礎設施，海纜登陸站是關鍵基礎設施。"],["許委員智傑：對！"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：一定是要本國電信事業來own比較好。"],["許委員智傑：關鍵基礎設施韌性的發展，到底是誰可以來主導？是NCC可以來主導，還是數發部可以來主導？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：因為NCC是監理單位，這個有牽涉到整個AI產業的發展，或許是……"],["許委員智傑：NCC是管准不准嘛，對不對？"],["翁代理主任委員柏宗：我們就是landing station、那個海纜站而已。"],["許委員智傑：是不是請數發部部長，這個到底可不可以設？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我是樂觀其成，這個海纜從興達上來……"],["許委員智傑：跟部長報告，我現在就不知道由誰來設啊？"],["黃部長彥男：我們過去的例子，像那個登陸站，我有去查一下，過去大概都是由電信公司提出申請，然後去建設，經過NCC核准，當它建好以後我們數發部去做……"],["許委員智傑：我們現在從國家角度來思考，它是韌性建設、它是關鍵基礎設施，從國家角度必須要設立，從這個角度來看，如果民間都沒有人主動，那政府應該怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我有去調查各式各樣的可能方法，我那時候有建議，其實我們看到一個方法，像高雄有一個叫亞灣5G的這種方式，這個model就是很好的model，就是建一個園區，用5GAIoT這樣的model去建，這個模產是由高雄市政府提出這樣的計畫。"],["許委員智傑：高雄市政府提出？"],["黃部長彥男：對，然後經過……"],["許委員智傑：如果高雄市政府說配合中央，那中央有沒有想法？"],["黃部長彥男：因為這個經費還是要申請公建預算，所以要有單位去申請公建預算。"],["許委員智傑：我現在跟部長報告，這個是關鍵基礎設施。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["許委員智傑：這個是韌性建設，這是有關於國安跟資安，甚至將來所有的AI發展，這對國家來講是重要的，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：我完全同意。"],["許委員智傑：國家總是要有個單位，有人願意承擔來push這件事情？"],["黃部長彥男：對！報告委員，剛剛我講過，這個東西本來就是應該要建設，但是應該大家一起合作去做，我們願意來協調……"],["許委員智傑：所以跟部長報告，我現在問了很多單位，數發部說願意協調，OK！NCC說願意幫忙，OK！市政府也覺得這個重要，OK！港務公司也覺得這個需要他們的地，他們也OK，然後台電也認為在興達廠這裡電量充足，是全國最好的一個場所也OK，現在沒有人掛鈴鐺，誰來掛鈴鐺？誰來主導這件事？從中央的角度，我今天假設總統問你由數發部來主導，或者是有誰可以來主導，你要怎麼回答？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們想我們再來開個會協調，看哪個單位出來書面申請。"],["許委員智傑：部長，你知道我意思嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["許委員智傑：我問你，你是可以說這是誰負責、誰負責，看由誰；如果總統問你這個是國家中央建設，一定要有，數發部部長應該怎麼樣來協助承擔、來幫忙？"],["黃部長彥男：我們就是出來協調各單位，然後……"],["許委員智傑：是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：對，要協調……"],["許委員智傑：部長，你懂我意思嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：瞭解、瞭解，但就是說這個案子……"],["許委員智傑：我問你，你回答的方式就是這個大家都可以，但是如果總統問你這是國家重要建設，一定要做，從數發部的角度要怎麼協助？"],["黃部長彥男：我們剛剛講就是依照過去海纜上岸，一開始都是電信公司去主導。"],["許委員智傑：沒關係，假設總統說這件事情就拜託你幫忙協調成功，這樣子你可以答應嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們當然會盡力來做。"],["許委員智傑：部長，你懂我意思嗎？其實我已經很努力找很多單位了，已經萬事俱備，只欠東風啦！"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["許委員智傑：東風呢？如果是有人、有肩膀把它扛下來，這個就是東風，否則如果都沒人扛下來，就是東風無力百花殘。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，近期我們會再來開一個會，看其他……"],["許委員智傑：好不好？我再說一遍，這是國家重要建設，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：完全同意。"],["許委員智傑：這是關鍵基礎設施，對不對？這對國家韌性發展很重要的，對不對？甚至這對國內的AI競爭力到國外的競爭力都很重要，對不對？好！總統如果跟你說這個很重要，你覺得對不對？對嘛！現在沒有人做，應該怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：就是依照我剛講的，我們調查過去的建設方式會去協調。"],["許委員智傑：好不好？拜託部長，因為我找不到人承擔。"],["黃部長彥男：其實我剛剛講的……"],["許委員智傑：不管中央單位怎麼協調，拜託部長來主導，這樣OK嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們再來協調，可以。"],["許委員智傑：你來幫忙協調到這件事情成功嘛！不然，你看我做了這麼多的努力，各個單位我都已經走了一圈了啦！最後我還在找，到底誰可以把這件事情承擔下來？這個對臺灣、對城市、對將來國家發展都一定非常的好，而且也非常的重要，但就是要有人做，好不好？這個拜託部長來主導協調，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們再跟委員請益。"],["許委員智傑：最後還有一個小事，聯電、緯創、台塑化都受到駭客攻擊，這個也是資安問題，數發部有辦法處理嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有觀察到這樣的攻擊，因為攻擊從政府攻擊開始擴散到民間，我剛剛有講過，第一個我們有所謂的情資分享，有公私協力的聯防機制，所以希望也歡迎各個單位、民間公司來加入我們這樣的聯防，作為所謂的service機制，能夠分享攻擊情資，遇到攻擊的時候，我們會提供一些情資跟協助，來分享這些攻擊的態樣。不過目前為止，因為這些攻擊都是所謂的DDoS阻斷式攻擊，其實目前的傷損害都不大，而且很快就能夠恢復，所以大概目前是沒有什麼資料外洩，或是被嚴重入侵的事件，不過我們持續在關注，但資安還是要大家一起努力。","當然我也希望趁這個機會講我們有一個很重要的法案叫作資安法的修法，這個法其實對我們在要求民間業者資安人員的安排跟培訓很重要，所以希望大院能夠儘速通過資安法，讓我們有法能夠去監督這些民間機關……"],["許委員智傑：OK，我想這是兩個角度嘛！一個角度立法院我們自己會努力，希望各黨派都可以支持；第二個角度，其實站在國家的角度，不管是防國家所有的單位被駭客攻擊，或者是民間我們可以幫助它的，數發部畢竟是全國這部分的龍頭，希望能夠再多著力，減少國家或者是我們的產業受到傷害，請數發法部繼續努力。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["許委員智傑：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑委員，也請黃部長針對剛剛那個第一項，這麼久的事情，你要召集相關單位提出具體的一個說法，然後給許智傑委員，謝謝。","接下來有請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":88,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","speakers":["魯明哲","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","陳雪生","徐富癸","洪孟楷","李坤城","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","郭國文","林月琴","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、\n內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00001"}}}