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{\"word\": \"琦\", \"start\": 60.614, \"end\": 61.595, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 61.595, \"end\": 61.675, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 61.675, \"end\": 61.915, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 61.915, \"end\": 62.015, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.015, \"end\": 62.096, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 62.096, \"end\": 62.236, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 62.236, \"end\": 62.416, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 62.416, \"end\": 63.076, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 63.076, \"end\": 63.457, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 63.457, \"end\": 63.697, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 63.697, \"end\": 63.817, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 63.817, \"end\": 63.997, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 63.997, \"end\": 64.197, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 64.197, \"end\": 64.397, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 64.397, \"end\": 64.517, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 64.517, \"end\": 64.637, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 64.637, \"end\": 65.558, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 65.558, \"end\": 66.379, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 66.379, \"end\": 66.799, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 66.799, \"end\": 66.919, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 66.919, \"end\": 67.34, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 67.34, \"end\": 67.4, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 67.4, \"end\": 67.56, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 67.56, \"end\": 67.9, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 67.9, \"end\": 67.96, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 67.96, \"end\": 68.38, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 68.38, \"end\": 68.741, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 68.741, \"end\": 68.821, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 68.821, \"end\": 68.841, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 68.841, \"end\": 68.861, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 71.874, \"end\": 94.84, \"text\": \"針對剛剛張啟臺委員提的那個案的部分後續也請給本席一個很完整的一個投錢評估的一個分析報告好不好可以可以齁好然後我在這邊問一下齁主委因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略嘛投資上的事業計畫都沒有問題那到去年底為止齁大概投資直接投資70家那投資的投入金額大概734億元我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦齁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"啟\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 71.874, \"end\": 72.134, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 72.134, \"end\": 72.334, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.334, \"end\": 72.494, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 72.494, \"end\": 72.614, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 72.614, \"end\": 72.794, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.794, \"end\": 72.915, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 72.915, \"end\": 73.115, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 73.115, \"end\": 74.435, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 74.435, \"end\": 74.555, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 74.555, \"end\": 75.055, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 75.055, \"end\": 75.355, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 75.355, \"end\": 75.575, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 75.575, \"end\": 75.855, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 75.855, \"end\": 76.035, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 76.035, \"end\": 76.275, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 76.275, \"end\": 76.475, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.475, \"end\": 76.535, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 76.535, \"end\": 76.715, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 76.715, \"end\": 77.276, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 77.276, \"end\": 77.436, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.436, \"end\": 77.556, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 77.556, \"end\": 78.176, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 78.176, \"end\": 78.316, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"析\", \"start\": 78.316, \"end\": 78.676, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 78.676, \"end\": 78.996, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 78.996, \"end\": 79.076, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 79.076, \"end\": 79.096, 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\"主\", \"start\": 82.597, \"end\": 82.717, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 82.717, \"end\": 83.197, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 83.197, \"end\": 83.757, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 83.757, \"end\": 83.857, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 83.857, \"end\": 83.957, \"score\": 0.619}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 83.957, \"end\": 84.097, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 84.097, \"end\": 84.217, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 84.217, \"end\": 84.457, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 84.457, \"end\": 84.597, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 84.597, \"end\": 85.157, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 85.157, \"end\": 85.317, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"略\", \"start\": 85.317, \"end\": 85.437, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 85.437, \"end\": 85.597, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 85.597, \"end\": 85.857, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 85.857, \"end\": 85.978, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 85.978, \"end\": 86.438, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 86.438, \"end\": 87.178, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 87.178, \"end\": 87.278, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 87.278, \"end\": 87.378, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 87.378, \"end\": 88.018, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 88.018, \"end\": 88.158, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 88.158, \"end\": 88.498, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 88.498, \"end\": 88.718, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 88.718, \"end\": 88.978, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 88.978, \"end\": 89.378, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 89.378, \"end\": 89.658, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 89.658, \"end\": 89.758, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 89.758, \"end\": 89.898, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 89.898, \"end\": 90.138, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 90.138, \"end\": 90.359, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 90.359, \"end\": 90.479, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 90.479, \"end\": 90.999, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 90.999, \"end\": 91.579, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 91.579, \"end\": 91.739, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 91.739, \"end\": 92.059, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 92.059, \"end\": 92.499, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 92.499, \"end\": 92.659, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 92.659, \"end\": 92.899, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 92.899, \"end\": 93.039, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 93.039, \"end\": 93.139, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 93.139, \"end\": 93.419, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 93.419, \"end\": 93.539, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 93.539, \"end\": 93.679, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 93.679, \"end\": 93.839, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 93.839, \"end\": 93.859, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 93.859, \"end\": 94.139, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 94.139, \"end\": 94.74, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 94.74, \"end\": 94.82, \"score\": 0.596}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 94.82, \"end\": 94.84, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}]}, {\"start\": 96.92, \"end\": 124.333, \"text\": \"那我就看到在整個投資先後當中的時候呢那近三年當中呢連續虧損的企業有20家那其中的時候我只看到有5家裡面有詳細的一個評估報告然後這5家裡面呢基本上就是國家基金如果是覺得他投資有些問題的時候應該要特別去關注可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的解散的、歇業的然後才提出檢討報告\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 96.92, \"end\": 97.06, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 97.06, \"end\": 97.14, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 97.14, \"end\": 97.3, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 97.3, \"end\": 97.48, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 97.48, \"end\": 97.64, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 97.64, \"end\": 98.021, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 98.021, \"end\": 98.281, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 98.281, \"end\": 98.721, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 98.721, 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0.751}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 537.954, \"end\": 538.115, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 538.115, \"end\": 538.135, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,215 --> 00:00:12,336\n呃主席好我想請一下劉主委齁劉主委委員長\n\n2\n00:00:21,904 --> 00:00:45,443\n主委好我想一樣針對國發基金投資的問題繼續往下問因為剛剛張其萊委員他這邊提到說國發基金投資一個特定的一個影片那投這麼多的錢那因為你這邊有特別提到你業報裡面有特別提到說去年我們為國家創造288億的那個獲利那我覺得你也特別提到了說要強化投資管理機制包括\n\n3\n00:00:46,484 --> 00:01:08,861\n投錢的機制、強化投錢的機制的管理還有投後的一個管理還有強化退場機制的執行都沒有錯嘛這是你在業報裡面很清楚講到的一個部分所以對於你那個投錢的評估的一個狀態尤其像針對剛剛張琦海委員提的那部分先給本席一個很清楚的狀態國發基金當時怎麼樣去做這樣的一個投錢的一個評估好不好\n\n4\n00:01:11,874 --> 00:01:34,840\n針對剛剛張啟臺委員提的那個案的部分後續也請給本席一個很完整的一個投錢評估的一個分析報告好不好可以可以齁好然後我在這邊問一下齁主委因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略嘛投資上的事業計畫都沒有問題那到去年底為止齁大概投資直接投資70家那投資的投入金額大概734億元我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦齁\n\n5\n00:01:36,920 --> 00:02:04,333\n那我就看到在整個投資先後當中的時候呢那近三年當中呢連續虧損的企業有20家那其中的時候我只看到有5家裡面有詳細的一個評估報告然後這5家裡面呢基本上就是國家基金如果是覺得他投資有些問題的時候應該要特別去關注可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的解散的、歇業的然後才提出檢討報告\n\n6\n00:02:05,513 --> 00:02:24,595\n那我就完全失去了事先監督公司改善或提前退場或保障投資這樣的一個可能性所以我想說剩下的15家的部分的時候呢我們是不是國家經濟這邊有一個很詳細的一個評估報告那是不是有持續的一個追蹤各位請主委回答一下\n\n7\n00:02:26,598 --> 00:02:49,074\n我來了以後我發現我事實上國發基金在投後管理上面是比較被動一點那我們現在其實我們開始正在改善投後管理的部分那我們會在但是這裡面也牽扯一個問題我們現在有1000多個投資案但是我們的人員不到30位目前的人員不到30位那1000多個投資案每年還要處理270多個投資案\n\n8\n00:02:50,975 --> 00:03:18,813\n直接到我們這裡主委因為你們的業務該怎麼去做其實就是這麼去做要投資這麼多公司一定是要有能力去做投錢的管理跟投後的一個管理那才會去投嘛不可能隨便錢就灑出去因為國發基金不是善財同質所以我看到這裡面這15家裡面呢有兩家變成正常戶其中有一家兆元我之前有質詢過兆元就是一個很離譜的一個情況他整個投入之後呢投資兩億\n\n9\n00:03:20,234 --> 00:03:34,029\n多元進去之後然後虧損掉了1.6億元之後然後我們國發基金任列虧損他就變正常戶了那其他還在追蹤列管的部分是比這情況更糟\n\n10\n00:03:35,350 --> 00:03:50,932\n不是的是這樣因為他已經換成了環球晶的股票被併掉了嘛所以環球晶因為環球晶的營運是正常的所以他才會依據環球晶的現在因為持有是環球晶的股票所以呢他才會列定為正常戶\n\n11\n00:03:51,772 --> 00:04:05,110\n那我想問一下針對趙遠這個部分的時候我們之後有沒有去追究當時我們在108年決定投入之後的時候呢被拖了一年多才開始有讀懂進駐\n\n12\n00:04:07,092 --> 00:04:32,103\n當中顯然有很大的一個行政的一個瑕疵請問一下主委有沒有去追蹤這件事情委員您上次有沒有追究他的責任委員您跟我提了以後我大概有進行了瞭解我們現在做了幾項重大改革第一個就是我們在投資這些企業的時候當時它本身存在它的方向正確但是技能未必是夠所以我們現在增加三個委員做技術評估\n\n13\n00:04:34,003 --> 00:04:53,853\n還有我們會進行市場口碑評估多三個委員那我想再問一個問題多三個委員來做一些市場的評估可是對於投入、投後之後的管理有沒有真正去落實針對這15家公司包括現在Gogoro股價\n\n14\n00:04:55,033 --> 00:05:24,693\n疊了九成然後包括了爐心之前也變全額交割股等等的這些問題我們難道都沒有一個比較積極的一個動作來針對我們投入的一些公司去做一些後續的一些管理嗎有的有的像剛剛委員我沒講完其實我們現在針對當時那幾個問題我們在投資合約裡面也開始明定了就是說你要能夠讓我直接進入董事會我們才會接受第二個他有一些道德條款還有我們公司治理條款\n\n15\n00:05:25,253 --> 00:05:46,966\n那至於頭後的部分呢,我們現在以舉例來講,如新我們已經進入一個評估是否要撤出的評估那,呃,Gogoro呢,我們目前呢是在有開始進行溝通,因為我們並沒有,我們並沒有董事席是在這裡面但是我們已經在找Gogoro來討論跟內容,那未來我們會找他的這個接班團隊裡面來看他的未來的問題\n\n16\n00:05:49,407 --> 00:06:06,827\n主委謝謝針對這其他的部分因為還有十幾家追蹤跟列管戶的時候你之後再給本席一個進一步詳細的一個評估報告他們目前的狀態好不好各家的一個狀態因為我接下來我要問的一個情況是大矽谷計劃大矽谷計劃的時候因為在\n\n17\n00:06:10,971 --> 00:06:31,780\n10月1號的時候其實後來行政院合定通過了嘛那合定通過了之後呢我就看到整個大細股計畫裡頭就是有很多那我們裡面特別提到了34次的AI這個字眼表示AI肯定很重要那你這邊也用了一個微笑曲線這個概念我先不講這微笑曲線它的內容怎麼樣子\n\n18\n00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:58,574\n那我直接把它給用了一個雷達圖把它給弄出來你把那幾個元素把它弄出來包括它的AI伺服器包括主機板包括散熱的部分晶圓代工、IC設計還有應用服務的部分整個綜合能力當中我們很清楚看到AI伺服器跟主機板硬體這邊我們台灣是很強的是很強的全球來說是很強的可是在整個AI當中的時候很大一個應用服務我們也提到了台灣只有1%\n\n19\n00:07:00,375 --> 00:07:11,945\n所以我要問的其實是我們大矽谷計畫裡面講到這麼多的AI的部分的時候那我們接下來針對AI應用服務的地方我們有沒有很具體的做法要怎麼樣來培植這一塊\n\n20\n00:07:14,008 --> 00:07:43,813\nAI應用服務的部分我們現在是會由這個速發部來主政那我這邊因為我過去個人的經驗接觸很深所以我有跟速發部聊過我們會來協助他就我們對產業的認知來做相關的推動那這裡面最重要的是人才跟制度我想我之前也跟委員報告過就是說臺灣現在的制度必須做一定的調整所以我們會來找工會來探討第二個人才的引進的部分我們將來會有兩個方案一個方案是引進\n\n21\n00:07:43,973 --> 00:08:09,430\n主委這個部分因為我時間有限你這部分之後再給我一個很詳細的部分我們怎麼樣去推來尤其怎麼樣去跟桃竹樺大西湖計畫做結合那我這邊有另外一個部分就是我在看到我們就是主委這邊的一個報告針對中小企業的扶植政策裡面這邊有提到一個就是跟台灣大學成立台灣首個校友投資基金這個詳細的內容是怎麼樣子\n\n22\n00:08:12,252 --> 00:08:41,458\n他是我們主要是希望學校能夠成立基金然後呢讓教授跟這些博士生或是碩士生的研究成果國發基金這邊有沒有投入有沒有參與投入我們投三成校友投資七成這個部分因為坦白說像交大也有一個很完整的一個計畫沒錯沒錯那我們也希望說不要獨厚台大很多學校其實也都需要就是國發基金的一個支持好不好那這之後後續怎麼做也許也等於是一個詳細的做法\n\n23\n00:08:41,758 --> 00:08:55,953\n然後另外就是有一個針對海外新創基地東京跟矽谷要做它的條件是怎麼樣去成立的還有比方說我們之後要怎麼去運作然後是不是會有第三第四個這個\n\n24\n00:08:57,274 --> 00:08:58,135\n再給本席一個詳細的書面資料\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11215\t12336\t呃 主席好 我想請一下劉主委齁 劉主委委員長\n21904\t45443\t主委好我想一樣針對國發基金投資的問題繼續往下問因為剛剛張其萊委員他這邊提到說國發基金投資一個特定的一個影片那投這麼多的錢那因為你這邊有特別提到你業報裡面有特別提到說去年我們為國家創造288億的那個獲利那我覺得你也特別提到了說要強化投資管理機制包括\n46484\t68861\t投錢的機制、強化投錢的機制的管理還有投後的一個管理還有強化退場機制的執行都沒有錯嘛這是你在業報裡面很清楚講到的一個部分所以對於你那個投錢的評估的一個狀態尤其像針對剛剛張琦海委員提的那部分先給本席一個很清楚的狀態國發基金當時怎麼樣去做這樣的一個投錢的一個評估好不好\n71874\t94840\t針對剛剛張啟臺委員提的那個案的部分後續也請給本席一個很完整的一個投錢評估的一個分析報告好不好可以可以齁好然後我在這邊問一下齁主委因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略嘛投資上的事業計畫都沒有問題那到去年底為止齁大概投資直接投資70家那投資的投入金額大概734億元我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦齁\n96920\t124333\t那我就看到在整個投資先後當中的時候呢那近三年當中呢連續虧損的企業有20家那其中的時候我只看到有5家裡面有詳細的一個評估報告然後這5家裡面呢基本上就是國家基金如果是覺得他投資有些問題的時候應該要特別去關注可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的解散的、歇業的然後才提出檢討報告\n125513\t144595\t那我就完全失去了事先監督公司改善或提前退場或保障投資這樣的一個可能性所以我想說剩下的15家的部分的時候呢我們是不是國家經濟這邊有一個很詳細的一個評估報告那是不是有持續的一個追蹤各位請主委回答一下\n146598\t169074\t我來了以後我發現我事實上國發基金在投後管理上面是比較被動一點那我們現在其實我們開始正在改善投後管理的部分那我們會在但是這裡面也牽扯一個問題我們現在有1000多個投資案但是我們的人員不到30位目前的人員不到30位那1000多個投資案每年還要處理270多個投資案\n170975\t198813\t直接到我們這裡主委因為你們的業務該怎麼去做其實就是這麼去做要投資這麼多公司一定是要有能力去做投錢的管理跟投後的一個管理那才會去投嘛不可能隨便錢就灑出去因為國發基金不是善財同質所以我看到這裡面這15家裡面呢有兩家變成正常戶其中有一家兆元我之前有質詢過兆元就是一個很離譜的一個情況他整個投入之後呢投資兩億\n200234\t214029\t多元進去之後然後虧損掉了1.6億元之後然後我們國發基金任列虧損他就變正常戶了那其他還在追蹤列管的部分是比這情況更糟\n215350\t230932\t不是的是這樣因為他已經換成了環球晶的股票被併掉了嘛所以環球晶因為環球晶的營運是正常的所以他才會依據環球晶的現在因為持有是環球晶的股票所以呢他才會列定為正常戶\n231772\t245110\t那我想問一下針對趙遠這個部分的時候我們之後有沒有去追究當時我們在108年決定投入之後的時候呢被拖了一年多才開始有讀懂進駐\n247092\t272103\t當中顯然有很大的一個行政的一個瑕疵請問一下主委有沒有去追蹤這件事情委員您上次有沒有追究他的責任委員您跟我提了以後我大概有進行了瞭解我們現在做了幾項重大改革第一個就是我們在投資這些企業的時候當時它本身存在它的方向正確但是技能未必是夠所以我們現在增加三個委員做技術評估\n274003\t293853\t還有我們會進行市場口碑評估多三個委員那我想再問一個問題多三個委員來做一些市場的評估可是對於投入、投後之後的管理有沒有真正去落實針對這15家公司包括現在Gogoro股價\n295033\t324693\t疊了九成然後包括了爐心之前也變全額交割股等等的這些問題我們難道都沒有一個比較積極的一個動作來針對我們投入的一些公司去做一些後續的一些管理嗎有的有的像剛剛委員我沒講完其實我們現在針對當時那幾個問題我們在投資合約裡面也開始明定了就是說你要能夠讓我直接進入董事會我們才會接受第二個他有一些道德條款還有我們公司治理條款\n325253\t346966\t那至於頭後的部分呢,我們現在以舉例來講,如新我們已經進入一個評估是否要撤出的評估那,呃,Gogoro呢,我們目前呢是在有開始進行溝通,因為我們並沒有,我們並沒有董事席是在這裡面但是我們已經在找Gogoro來討論跟內容,那未來我們會找他的這個接班團隊裡面來看他的未來的問題\n349407\t366827\t主委謝謝針對這其他的部分因為還有十幾家追蹤跟列管戶的時候你之後再給本席一個進一步詳細的一個評估報告他們目前的狀態好不好各家的一個狀態因為我接下來我要問的一個情況是大矽谷計劃大矽谷計劃的時候因為在\n370971\t391780\t10月1號的時候其實後來行政院合定通過了嘛那合定通過了之後呢我就看到整個大細股計畫裡頭就是有很多那我們裡面特別提到了34次的AI這個字眼表示AI肯定很重要那你這邊也用了一個微笑曲線這個概念我先不講這微笑曲線它的內容怎麼樣子\n392580\t418574\t那我直接把它給用了一個雷達圖把它給弄出來你把那幾個元素把它弄出來包括它的AI伺服器包括主機板包括散熱的部分晶圓代工、IC設計還有應用服務的部分整個綜合能力當中我們很清楚看到AI伺服器跟主機板硬體這邊我們台灣是很強的是很強的全球來說是很強的可是在整個AI當中的時候很大一個應用服務我們也提到了台灣只有1%\n420375\t431945\t所以我要問的其實是我們大矽谷計畫裡面講到這麼多的AI的部分的時候那我們接下來針對AI應用服務的地方我們有沒有很具體的做法要怎麼樣來培植這一塊\n434008\t463813\tAI應用服務的部分我們現在是會由這個速發部來主政那我這邊因為我過去個人的經驗接觸很深所以我有跟速發部聊過我們會來協助他就我們對產業的認知來做相關的推動那這裡面最重要的是人才跟制度我想我之前也跟委員報告過就是說臺灣現在的制度必須做一定的調整所以我們會來找工會來探討第二個人才的引進的部分我們將來會有兩個方案一個方案是引進\n463973\t489430\t主委這個部分因為我時間有限你這部分之後再給我一個很詳細的部分我們怎麼樣去推來尤其怎麼樣去跟桃竹樺大西湖計畫做結合那我這邊有另外一個部分就是我在看到我們就是主委這邊的一個報告針對中小企業的扶植政策裡面這邊有提到一個就是跟台灣大學成立台灣首個校友投資基金這個詳細的內容是怎麼樣子\n492252\t521458\t他是我們主要是希望學校能夠成立基金然後呢讓教授跟這些博士生或是碩士生的研究成果國發基金這邊有沒有投入有沒有參與投入我們投三成校友投資七成這個部分因為坦白說像交大也有一個很完整的一個計畫沒錯沒錯那我們也希望說不要獨厚台大很多學校其實也都需要就是國發基金的一個支持好不好那這之後後續怎麼做也許也等於是一個詳細的做法\n521758\t535953\t然後另外就是有一個針對海外新創基地東京跟矽谷要做它的條件是怎麼樣去成立的還有比方說我們之後要怎麼去運作然後是不是會有第三第四個這個\n537274\t538135\t再給本席一個詳細的書面資料\n","txt":"呃 主席好 我想請一下劉主委齁 劉主委委員長\n主委好我想一樣針對國發基金投資的問題繼續往下問因為剛剛張其萊委員他這邊提到說國發基金投資一個特定的一個影片那投這麼多的錢那因為你這邊有特別提到你業報裡面有特別提到說去年我們為國家創造288億的那個獲利那我覺得你也特別提到了說要強化投資管理機制包括\n投錢的機制、強化投錢的機制的管理還有投後的一個管理還有強化退場機制的執行都沒有錯嘛這是你在業報裡面很清楚講到的一個部分所以對於你那個投錢的評估的一個狀態尤其像針對剛剛張琦海委員提的那部分先給本席一個很清楚的狀態國發基金當時怎麼樣去做這樣的一個投錢的一個評估好不好\n針對剛剛張啟臺委員提的那個案的部分後續也請給本席一個很完整的一個投錢評估的一個分析報告好不好可以可以齁好然後我在這邊問一下齁主委因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略嘛投資上的事業計畫都沒有問題那到去年底為止齁大概投資直接投資70家那投資的投入金額大概734億元我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦齁\n那我就看到在整個投資先後當中的時候呢那近三年當中呢連續虧損的企業有20家那其中的時候我只看到有5家裡面有詳細的一個評估報告然後這5家裡面呢基本上就是國家基金如果是覺得他投資有些問題的時候應該要特別去關注可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的解散的、歇業的然後才提出檢討報告\n那我就完全失去了事先監督公司改善或提前退場或保障投資這樣的一個可能性所以我想說剩下的15家的部分的時候呢我們是不是國家經濟這邊有一個很詳細的一個評估報告那是不是有持續的一個追蹤各位請主委回答一下\n我來了以後我發現我事實上國發基金在投後管理上面是比較被動一點那我們現在其實我們開始正在改善投後管理的部分那我們會在但是這裡面也牽扯一個問題我們現在有1000多個投資案但是我們的人員不到30位目前的人員不到30位那1000多個投資案每年還要處理270多個投資案\n直接到我們這裡主委因為你們的業務該怎麼去做其實就是這麼去做要投資這麼多公司一定是要有能力去做投錢的管理跟投後的一個管理那才會去投嘛不可能隨便錢就灑出去因為國發基金不是善財同質所以我看到這裡面這15家裡面呢有兩家變成正常戶其中有一家兆元我之前有質詢過兆元就是一個很離譜的一個情況他整個投入之後呢投資兩億\n多元進去之後然後虧損掉了1.6億元之後然後我們國發基金任列虧損他就變正常戶了那其他還在追蹤列管的部分是比這情況更糟\n不是的是這樣因為他已經換成了環球晶的股票被併掉了嘛所以環球晶因為環球晶的營運是正常的所以他才會依據環球晶的現在因為持有是環球晶的股票所以呢他才會列定為正常戶\n那我想問一下針對趙遠這個部分的時候我們之後有沒有去追究當時我們在108年決定投入之後的時候呢被拖了一年多才開始有讀懂進駐\n當中顯然有很大的一個行政的一個瑕疵請問一下主委有沒有去追蹤這件事情委員您上次有沒有追究他的責任委員您跟我提了以後我大概有進行了瞭解我們現在做了幾項重大改革第一個就是我們在投資這些企業的時候當時它本身存在它的方向正確但是技能未必是夠所以我們現在增加三個委員做技術評估\n還有我們會進行市場口碑評估多三個委員那我想再問一個問題多三個委員來做一些市場的評估可是對於投入、投後之後的管理有沒有真正去落實針對這15家公司包括現在Gogoro股價\n疊了九成然後包括了爐心之前也變全額交割股等等的這些問題我們難道都沒有一個比較積極的一個動作來針對我們投入的一些公司去做一些後續的一些管理嗎有的有的像剛剛委員我沒講完其實我們現在針對當時那幾個問題我們在投資合約裡面也開始明定了就是說你要能夠讓我直接進入董事會我們才會接受第二個他有一些道德條款還有我們公司治理條款\n那至於頭後的部分呢,我們現在以舉例來講,如新我們已經進入一個評估是否要撤出的評估那,呃,Gogoro呢,我們目前呢是在有開始進行溝通,因為我們並沒有,我們並沒有董事席是在這裡面但是我們已經在找Gogoro來討論跟內容,那未來我們會找他的這個接班團隊裡面來看他的未來的問題\n主委謝謝針對這其他的部分因為還有十幾家追蹤跟列管戶的時候你之後再給本席一個進一步詳細的一個評估報告他們目前的狀態好不好各家的一個狀態因為我接下來我要問的一個情況是大矽谷計劃大矽谷計劃的時候因為在\n10月1號的時候其實後來行政院合定通過了嘛那合定通過了之後呢我就看到整個大細股計畫裡頭就是有很多那我們裡面特別提到了34次的AI這個字眼表示AI肯定很重要那你這邊也用了一個微笑曲線這個概念我先不講這微笑曲線它的內容怎麼樣子\n那我直接把它給用了一個雷達圖把它給弄出來你把那幾個元素把它弄出來包括它的AI伺服器包括主機板包括散熱的部分晶圓代工、IC設計還有應用服務的部分整個綜合能力當中我們很清楚看到AI伺服器跟主機板硬體這邊我們台灣是很強的是很強的全球來說是很強的可是在整個AI當中的時候很大一個應用服務我們也提到了台灣只有1%\n所以我要問的其實是我們大矽谷計畫裡面講到這麼多的AI的部分的時候那我們接下來針對AI應用服務的地方我們有沒有很具體的做法要怎麼樣來培植這一塊\nAI應用服務的部分我們現在是會由這個速發部來主政那我這邊因為我過去個人的經驗接觸很深所以我有跟速發部聊過我們會來協助他就我們對產業的認知來做相關的推動那這裡面最重要的是人才跟制度我想我之前也跟委員報告過就是說臺灣現在的制度必須做一定的調整所以我們會來找工會來探討第二個人才的引進的部分我們將來會有兩個方案一個方案是引進\n主委這個部分因為我時間有限你這部分之後再給我一個很詳細的部分我們怎麼樣去推來尤其怎麼樣去跟桃竹樺大西湖計畫做結合那我這邊有另外一個部分就是我在看到我們就是主委這邊的一個報告針對中小企業的扶植政策裡面這邊有提到一個就是跟台灣大學成立台灣首個校友投資基金這個詳細的內容是怎麼樣子\n他是我們主要是希望學校能夠成立基金然後呢讓教授跟這些博士生或是碩士生的研究成果國發基金這邊有沒有投入有沒有參與投入我們投三成校友投資七成這個部分因為坦白說像交大也有一個很完整的一個計畫沒錯沒錯那我們也希望說不要獨厚台大很多學校其實也都需要就是國發基金的一個支持好不好那這之後後續怎麼做也許也等於是一個詳細的做法\n然後另外就是有一個針對海外新創基地東京跟矽谷要做它的條件是怎麼樣去成立的還有比方說我們之後要怎麼去運作然後是不是會有第三第四個這個\n再給本席一個詳細的書面資料\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.215 --> 00:12.336\n呃主席好我想請一下劉主委齁劉主委委員長\n\n00:21.904 --> 00:45.443\n主委好我想一樣針對國發基金投資的問題繼續往下問因為剛剛張其萊委員他這邊提到說國發基金投資一個特定的一個影片那投這麼多的錢那因為你這邊有特別提到你業報裡面有特別提到說去年我們為國家創造288億的那個獲利那我覺得你也特別提到了說要強化投資管理機制包括\n\n00:46.484 --> 01:08.861\n投錢的機制、強化投錢的機制的管理還有投後的一個管理還有強化退場機制的執行都沒有錯嘛這是你在業報裡面很清楚講到的一個部分所以對於你那個投錢的評估的一個狀態尤其像針對剛剛張琦海委員提的那部分先給本席一個很清楚的狀態國發基金當時怎麼樣去做這樣的一個投錢的一個評估好不好\n\n01:11.874 --> 01:34.840\n針對剛剛張啟臺委員提的那個案的部分後續也請給本席一個很完整的一個投錢評估的一個分析報告好不好可以可以齁好然後我在這邊問一下齁主委因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略嘛投資上的事業計畫都沒有問題那到去年底為止齁大概投資直接投資70家那投資的投入金額大概734億元我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦齁\n\n01:36.920 --> 02:04.333\n那我就看到在整個投資先後當中的時候呢那近三年當中呢連續虧損的企業有20家那其中的時候我只看到有5家裡面有詳細的一個評估報告然後這5家裡面呢基本上就是國家基金如果是覺得他投資有些問題的時候應該要特別去關注可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的解散的、歇業的然後才提出檢討報告\n\n02:05.513 --> 02:24.595\n那我就完全失去了事先監督公司改善或提前退場或保障投資這樣的一個可能性所以我想說剩下的15家的部分的時候呢我們是不是國家經濟這邊有一個很詳細的一個評估報告那是不是有持續的一個追蹤各位請主委回答一下\n\n02:26.598 --> 02:49.074\n我來了以後我發現我事實上國發基金在投後管理上面是比較被動一點那我們現在其實我們開始正在改善投後管理的部分那我們會在但是這裡面也牽扯一個問題我們現在有1000多個投資案但是我們的人員不到30位目前的人員不到30位那1000多個投資案每年還要處理270多個投資案\n\n02:50.975 --> 03:18.813\n直接到我們這裡主委因為你們的業務該怎麼去做其實就是這麼去做要投資這麼多公司一定是要有能力去做投錢的管理跟投後的一個管理那才會去投嘛不可能隨便錢就灑出去因為國發基金不是善財同質所以我看到這裡面這15家裡面呢有兩家變成正常戶其中有一家兆元我之前有質詢過兆元就是一個很離譜的一個情況他整個投入之後呢投資兩億\n\n03:20.234 --> 03:34.029\n多元進去之後然後虧損掉了1.6億元之後然後我們國發基金任列虧損他就變正常戶了那其他還在追蹤列管的部分是比這情況更糟\n\n03:35.350 --> 03:50.932\n不是的是這樣因為他已經換成了環球晶的股票被併掉了嘛所以環球晶因為環球晶的營運是正常的所以他才會依據環球晶的現在因為持有是環球晶的股票所以呢他才會列定為正常戶\n\n03:51.772 --> 04:05.110\n那我想問一下針對趙遠這個部分的時候我們之後有沒有去追究當時我們在108年決定投入之後的時候呢被拖了一年多才開始有讀懂進駐\n\n04:07.092 --> 04:32.103\n當中顯然有很大的一個行政的一個瑕疵請問一下主委有沒有去追蹤這件事情委員您上次有沒有追究他的責任委員您跟我提了以後我大概有進行了瞭解我們現在做了幾項重大改革第一個就是我們在投資這些企業的時候當時它本身存在它的方向正確但是技能未必是夠所以我們現在增加三個委員做技術評估\n\n04:34.003 --> 04:53.853\n還有我們會進行市場口碑評估多三個委員那我想再問一個問題多三個委員來做一些市場的評估可是對於投入、投後之後的管理有沒有真正去落實針對這15家公司包括現在Gogoro股價\n\n04:55.033 --> 05:24.693\n疊了九成然後包括了爐心之前也變全額交割股等等的這些問題我們難道都沒有一個比較積極的一個動作來針對我們投入的一些公司去做一些後續的一些管理嗎有的有的像剛剛委員我沒講完其實我們現在針對當時那幾個問題我們在投資合約裡面也開始明定了就是說你要能夠讓我直接進入董事會我們才會接受第二個他有一些道德條款還有我們公司治理條款\n\n05:25.253 --> 05:46.966\n那至於頭後的部分呢,我們現在以舉例來講,如新我們已經進入一個評估是否要撤出的評估那,呃,Gogoro呢,我們目前呢是在有開始進行溝通,因為我們並沒有,我們並沒有董事席是在這裡面但是我們已經在找Gogoro來討論跟內容,那未來我們會找他的這個接班團隊裡面來看他的未來的問題\n\n05:49.407 --> 06:06.827\n主委謝謝針對這其他的部分因為還有十幾家追蹤跟列管戶的時候你之後再給本席一個進一步詳細的一個評估報告他們目前的狀態好不好各家的一個狀態因為我接下來我要問的一個情況是大矽谷計劃大矽谷計劃的時候因為在\n\n06:10.971 --> 06:31.780\n10月1號的時候其實後來行政院合定通過了嘛那合定通過了之後呢我就看到整個大細股計畫裡頭就是有很多那我們裡面特別提到了34次的AI這個字眼表示AI肯定很重要那你這邊也用了一個微笑曲線這個概念我先不講這微笑曲線它的內容怎麼樣子\n\n06:32.580 --> 06:58.574\n那我直接把它給用了一個雷達圖把它給弄出來你把那幾個元素把它弄出來包括它的AI伺服器包括主機板包括散熱的部分晶圓代工、IC設計還有應用服務的部分整個綜合能力當中我們很清楚看到AI伺服器跟主機板硬體這邊我們台灣是很強的是很強的全球來說是很強的可是在整個AI當中的時候很大一個應用服務我們也提到了台灣只有1%\n\n07:00.375 --> 07:11.945\n所以我要問的其實是我們大矽谷計畫裡面講到這麼多的AI的部分的時候那我們接下來針對AI應用服務的地方我們有沒有很具體的做法要怎麼樣來培植這一塊\n\n07:14.008 --> 07:43.813\nAI應用服務的部分我們現在是會由這個速發部來主政那我這邊因為我過去個人的經驗接觸很深所以我有跟速發部聊過我們會來協助他就我們對產業的認知來做相關的推動那這裡面最重要的是人才跟制度我想我之前也跟委員報告過就是說臺灣現在的制度必須做一定的調整所以我們會來找工會來探討第二個人才的引進的部分我們將來會有兩個方案一個方案是引進\n\n07:43.973 --> 08:09.430\n主委這個部分因為我時間有限你這部分之後再給我一個很詳細的部分我們怎麼樣去推來尤其怎麼樣去跟桃竹樺大西湖計畫做結合那我這邊有另外一個部分就是我在看到我們就是主委這邊的一個報告針對中小企業的扶植政策裡面這邊有提到一個就是跟台灣大學成立台灣首個校友投資基金這個詳細的內容是怎麼樣子\n\n08:12.252 --> 08:41.458\n他是我們主要是希望學校能夠成立基金然後呢讓教授跟這些博士生或是碩士生的研究成果國發基金這邊有沒有投入有沒有參與投入我們投三成校友投資七成這個部分因為坦白說像交大也有一個很完整的一個計畫沒錯沒錯那我們也希望說不要獨厚台大很多學校其實也都需要就是國發基金的一個支持好不好那這之後後續怎麼做也許也等於是一個詳細的做法\n\n08:41.758 --> 08:55.953\n然後另外就是有一個針對海外新創基地東京跟矽谷要做它的條件是怎麼樣去成立的還有比方說我們之後要怎麼去運作然後是不是會有第三第四個這個\n\n08:57.274 --> 08:58.135\n再給本席一個詳細的書面資料\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.215,"end":12.336,"text":"呃 主席好 我想請一下劉主委齁 劉主委委員長"},{"start":21.904,"end":45.443,"text":"主委好我想一樣針對國發基金投資的問題繼續往下問因為剛剛張其萊委員他這邊提到說國發基金投資一個特定的一個影片那投這麼多的錢那因為你這邊有特別提到你業報裡面有特別提到說去年我們為國家創造288億的那個獲利那我覺得你也特別提到了說要強化投資管理機制包括"},{"start":46.484,"end":68.861,"text":"投錢的機制、強化投錢的機制的管理還有投後的一個管理還有強化退場機制的執行都沒有錯嘛這是你在業報裡面很清楚講到的一個部分所以對於你那個投錢的評估的一個狀態尤其像針對剛剛張琦海委員提的那部分先給本席一個很清楚的狀態國發基金當時怎麼樣去做這樣的一個投錢的一個評估好不好"},{"start":71.874,"end":94.84,"text":"針對剛剛張啟臺委員提的那個案的部分後續也請給本席一個很完整的一個投錢評估的一個分析報告好不好可以可以齁好然後我在這邊問一下齁主委因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略嘛投資上的事業計畫都沒有問題那到去年底為止齁大概投資直接投資70家那投資的投入金額大概734億元我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦齁"},{"start":96.92,"end":124.333,"text":"那我就看到在整個投資先後當中的時候呢那近三年當中呢連續虧損的企業有20家那其中的時候我只看到有5家裡面有詳細的一個評估報告然後這5家裡面呢基本上就是國家基金如果是覺得他投資有些問題的時候應該要特別去關注可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的解散的、歇業的然後才提出檢討報告"},{"start":125.513,"end":144.595,"text":"那我就完全失去了事先監督公司改善或提前退場或保障投資這樣的一個可能性所以我想說剩下的15家的部分的時候呢我們是不是國家經濟這邊有一個很詳細的一個評估報告那是不是有持續的一個追蹤各位請主委回答一下"},{"start":146.598,"end":169.074,"text":"我來了以後我發現我事實上國發基金在投後管理上面是比較被動一點那我們現在其實我們開始正在改善投後管理的部分那我們會在但是這裡面也牽扯一個問題我們現在有1000多個投資案但是我們的人員不到30位目前的人員不到30位那1000多個投資案每年還要處理270多個投資案"},{"start":170.975,"end":198.813,"text":"直接到我們這裡主委因為你們的業務該怎麼去做其實就是這麼去做要投資這麼多公司一定是要有能力去做投錢的管理跟投後的一個管理那才會去投嘛不可能隨便錢就灑出去因為國發基金不是善財同質所以我看到這裡面這15家裡面呢有兩家變成正常戶其中有一家兆元我之前有質詢過兆元就是一個很離譜的一個情況他整個投入之後呢投資兩億"},{"start":200.234,"end":214.029,"text":"多元進去之後然後虧損掉了1.6億元之後然後我們國發基金任列虧損他就變正常戶了那其他還在追蹤列管的部分是比這情況更糟"},{"start":215.35,"end":230.932,"text":"不是的是這樣因為他已經換成了環球晶的股票被併掉了嘛所以環球晶因為環球晶的營運是正常的所以他才會依據環球晶的現在因為持有是環球晶的股票所以呢他才會列定為正常戶"},{"start":231.772,"end":245.11,"text":"那我想問一下針對趙遠這個部分的時候我們之後有沒有去追究當時我們在108年決定投入之後的時候呢被拖了一年多才開始有讀懂進駐"},{"start":247.092,"end":272.103,"text":"當中顯然有很大的一個行政的一個瑕疵請問一下主委有沒有去追蹤這件事情委員您上次有沒有追究他的責任委員您跟我提了以後我大概有進行了瞭解我們現在做了幾項重大改革第一個就是我們在投資這些企業的時候當時它本身存在它的方向正確但是技能未必是夠所以我們現在增加三個委員做技術評估"},{"start":274.003,"end":293.853,"text":"還有我們會進行市場口碑評估多三個委員那我想再問一個問題多三個委員來做一些市場的評估可是對於投入、投後之後的管理有沒有真正去落實針對這15家公司包括現在Gogoro股價"},{"start":295.033,"end":324.693,"text":"疊了九成然後包括了爐心之前也變全額交割股等等的這些問題我們難道都沒有一個比較積極的一個動作來針對我們投入的一些公司去做一些後續的一些管理嗎有的有的像剛剛委員我沒講完其實我們現在針對當時那幾個問題我們在投資合約裡面也開始明定了就是說你要能夠讓我直接進入董事會我們才會接受第二個他有一些道德條款還有我們公司治理條款"},{"start":325.253,"end":346.966,"text":"那至於頭後的部分呢,我們現在以舉例來講,如新我們已經進入一個評估是否要撤出的評估那,呃,Gogoro呢,我們目前呢是在有開始進行溝通,因為我們並沒有,我們並沒有董事席是在這裡面但是我們已經在找Gogoro來討論跟內容,那未來我們會找他的這個接班團隊裡面來看他的未來的問題"},{"start":349.407,"end":366.827,"text":"主委謝謝針對這其他的部分因為還有十幾家追蹤跟列管戶的時候你之後再給本席一個進一步詳細的一個評估報告他們目前的狀態好不好各家的一個狀態因為我接下來我要問的一個情況是大矽谷計劃大矽谷計劃的時候因為在"},{"start":370.971,"end":391.78,"text":"10月1號的時候其實後來行政院合定通過了嘛那合定通過了之後呢我就看到整個大細股計畫裡頭就是有很多那我們裡面特別提到了34次的AI這個字眼表示AI肯定很重要那你這邊也用了一個微笑曲線這個概念我先不講這微笑曲線它的內容怎麼樣子"},{"start":392.58,"end":418.574,"text":"那我直接把它給用了一個雷達圖把它給弄出來你把那幾個元素把它弄出來包括它的AI伺服器包括主機板包括散熱的部分晶圓代工、IC設計還有應用服務的部分整個綜合能力當中我們很清楚看到AI伺服器跟主機板硬體這邊我們台灣是很強的是很強的全球來說是很強的可是在整個AI當中的時候很大一個應用服務我們也提到了台灣只有1%"},{"start":420.375,"end":431.945,"text":"所以我要問的其實是我們大矽谷計畫裡面講到這麼多的AI的部分的時候那我們接下來針對AI應用服務的地方我們有沒有很具體的做法要怎麼樣來培植這一塊"},{"start":434.008,"end":463.813,"text":"AI應用服務的部分我們現在是會由這個速發部來主政那我這邊因為我過去個人的經驗接觸很深所以我有跟速發部聊過我們會來協助他就我們對產業的認知來做相關的推動那這裡面最重要的是人才跟制度我想我之前也跟委員報告過就是說臺灣現在的制度必須做一定的調整所以我們會來找工會來探討第二個人才的引進的部分我們將來會有兩個方案一個方案是引進"},{"start":463.973,"end":489.43,"text":"主委這個部分因為我時間有限你這部分之後再給我一個很詳細的部分我們怎麼樣去推來尤其怎麼樣去跟桃竹樺大西湖計畫做結合那我這邊有另外一個部分就是我在看到我們就是主委這邊的一個報告針對中小企業的扶植政策裡面這邊有提到一個就是跟台灣大學成立台灣首個校友投資基金這個詳細的內容是怎麼樣子"},{"start":492.252,"end":521.458,"text":"他是我們主要是希望學校能夠成立基金然後呢讓教授跟這些博士生或是碩士生的研究成果國發基金這邊有沒有投入有沒有參與投入我們投三成校友投資七成這個部分因為坦白說像交大也有一個很完整的一個計畫沒錯沒錯那我們也希望說不要獨厚台大很多學校其實也都需要就是國發基金的一個支持好不好那這之後後續怎麼做也許也等於是一個詳細的做法"},{"start":521.758,"end":535.953,"text":"然後另外就是有一個針對海外新創基地東京跟矽谷要做它的條件是怎麼樣去成立的還有比方說我們之後要怎麼去運作然後是不是會有第三第四個這個"},{"start":537.274,"end":538.135,"text":"再給本席一個詳細的書面資料"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:23:52 - 10:33:07","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155111,"gazette":{"lineno":320,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時24分）主席好，我想請一下劉主委。"],["主席：請劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早！"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委好！我想一樣針對國發基金投資的問題繼續往下問，因為剛剛張啓楷委員提到國發基金投資一部特定的影片，那投這麼多的錢，因為你業報裡面有特別提到去年我們為國家創造288億的獲利，你也特別提到要強化投資管理機制，包括強化投前機制管理、投後管理及強化退場機制執行，都沒有錯嘛，這是你在業報裡面很清楚講到的部分。所以對於投前的評估狀態，尤其像針對剛剛張啓楷委員提的那部分，也請給本席一個很清楚的說明，國發基金當時怎麼樣去做這樣的投前評估，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好！"],["鄭委員正鈐：針對剛剛張啓楷委員提到那個個案的部分，後續也請給本席一個很完整的投前評估分析報告，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：可以。"],["鄭委員正鈐：可以喔？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我在這邊問一下，主委，因為國發基金要配合國家產業發展策略，投資方的事業計畫都沒有問題，到去年底為止，大概直接投資70家，投入金額大概734億元，我想這數字應該也沒有錯啦！我就看到整個投資先後當中，在近三年當中連續虧損的企業有20家，其中我只看到5家有詳細的評估報告；在這5家裡面，基本上國發基金如果覺得它投資有些問題時，應該要特別去關注，可是我發現這5家裡面大部分都是破產的、解散的、歇業的，然後才提出檢討報告，就完全失去了事先監督公司改善或提前退場或保障投資這樣的可能性，所以我想對剩下的15家部分，是不是國發基金這邊有一份很詳細的評估報告，那是不是有持續地追蹤，可不可以請主委回答一下？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我來了以後，我發現事實上國發基金在投後管理上面是比較被動一點，我們現在其實開始正在改善投後管理部分，但是這裡面也牽扯到一個問題，我們現在有一千多個投資案，但是我們目前的人員不到30位，每年還要處理兩百七十多個投資案，直接到我們這裡……"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委，因為你們的業務該怎麼去做，其實就是這麼去做，要投資這麼多公司一定是要有能力去做投前管理跟投後管理，那才會去投嘛！不可能隨便錢就撒出去。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對！"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為國發基金不是散財童子，所以我看到這15家裡面，有兩家變成正常戶，其中有一家兆遠，我之前有質詢過，兆遠就是一個很離譜的情況，整個投資兩億多元進去，虧損到了1.6億元之後，然後我們國發基金認列虧損，它就變正常戶了，其他還在追蹤列管的部分，是不是比這個情況更糟？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不是的！是這樣的，因為它已經換成了環球晶的股票。"],["鄭委員正鈐：被併掉了嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對！因為環球晶的營運是正常的，現在它持有環球晶的股票，所以才會列定為正常戶。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我想問一下針對兆遠這個部分，你們有沒有去追究當時在108年決定投入之後，被拖了一年多才開始有獨董進駐，當中顯然有很大的行政瑕疵，請問一下主委，之後有沒有去追蹤這件事情？有沒有追究他的責任？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：有。委員，您上次跟我提了以後，我大概有進行瞭解，我們現在做了幾項重大改革，第一個，我們在投資這些企業的時候，當時它本身的方向正確，但是技能未必是夠，所以我們現在增加三個委員做技術評估，還有我們會進行市場口碑評估來看……"],["鄭委員正鈐：多三個委員？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對！"],["鄭委員正鈐：我想再問一個問題，多三個委員來做一些市場評估，可是對於投後管理有沒有真正去落實？針對這15家公司，包括現在Gogoro股價跌了九成，包括如興之前也變全額交割股等等的這些問題，你們難道都沒有一個比較積極的動作，來針對你們投入的一些公司去做後續管理嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：有的、有的。委員，像剛剛我沒講完，其實現在針對當時那幾個問題，我們在投資合約裡面也開始明訂了，就是你要能夠讓我直接進入董事會，我們才會接受。第二個，它有一些道德條款，還有公司治理條款，至於投後的部分，現在舉例來講，如興我們已經進入是否要撤出的評估，Gogoro我們目前是有開始進行溝通，因為我們並沒有董事席次在這裡面，但是我們已經在找Gogoro來討論內容，未來我們會找它的接班團隊，以此來看它未來的問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，謝謝主委。針對這其他的部分，因為還有十幾家追蹤跟列管戶的時候，你之後再給本席一份進一步詳細的評估報告，即他們目前各家的狀態，好不好？我接下來要問的是大矽谷計畫，大矽谷計畫在10月1號的時候行政院核定通過了嘛，核定通過了之後，我看到整個大矽谷計畫的內容有很多，裡頭特別提到了34次的「AI」這個字眼，表示AI肯定很重要，你這邊也用了一個微笑曲線的概念，我先不講這個微笑曲線的內容怎麼樣，我直接用了一個雷達圖把它的那幾個元素弄出來，包括它的AI伺服器、主機板、散熱、晶圓代工、IC設計還有應用服務等部分，以整個綜合能力來看，我們很清楚的看到，AI伺服器跟主機板這種硬體方面我們臺灣是很強的，以全球來說是很強的，可是在整個AI綜合能力當中的應用服務部分，我們也提到了，臺灣只有百分之一，所以我要問的其實是，大矽谷計畫裡面講到這麼多AI的部分，我們接下來針對AI應用服務的地方有沒有很具體的作法，要怎麼樣來培植這一塊？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：AI應用服務的部分，我們現在會由數發部來主政，至於我這邊，因為我過去個人的經驗接觸很深，所以我有跟數發部聊過，我們會來協助它，就我們對產業的認知來做相關的推動。這裡面最重要是人才跟制度，我想我之前也跟委員報告過，就是說，臺灣現在的制度必須做一定的調整，所以我們會找公會來探討。第二個，有關人才引進的部分，我們將來會有兩個方案，一個方案是引進；第二個是設立海外發展中心……"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委，有關這個部分，因為我的時間有限，這個部分之後再請你給我一個很詳細的報告，我們怎麼樣去推AI？尤其是怎麼樣去跟桃竹苗大矽谷計畫做結合。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我這邊還有另外一個部分要請教，我看到主委報告中針對中小企業的扶植政策裡面有提到要跟臺灣大學成立臺灣首個校友投資基金，這個詳細的內容是怎麼樣？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們主要是希望學校能夠成立基金，然後讓教授跟這些博士生或是碩士生的研究成果……"],["鄭委員正鈐：國發基金這邊有沒有投入？有沒有參與投入？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們投三成，校友投資七成。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這個部分坦白說，像交大也有一個很完整的計畫……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒錯、沒錯！我們這個禮拜會討論。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我們也希望不要獨厚臺大，很多學校其實也都需要國發基金的支持，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：有的，交大我們已經開過一次會了……"],["鄭委員正鈐：這之後的後續怎麼做，也請給本席一個詳細作法的報告。","另外就是針對海外新創基地的部分，東京跟矽谷要做，它的條件是怎麼樣去成立的？還有，比方說我們之後要怎麼去運作？"],["主席：不好意思，時間到了。"],["鄭委員正鈐：然後是不是會有第三個、第四個？這個再給本席一個詳細的書面資料。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：最後一個就是，這裡面因為之前提到的是52個產業園區……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["鄭委員正鈐：7個科學園區、52個產業園區，可是核定出來是56個產業園區，另外那4個是在什麼地方，請再給本席詳細資料。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭正鈐委員委員。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時33分）","繼續開會（10時43分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會，下一位質詢請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}}