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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 635.134, \"end\": 637.577, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 637.577, \"end\": 638.038, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"翔\", \"start\": 638.038, \"end\": 638.258, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 638.258, \"end\": 638.578, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 638.578, \"end\": 638.598, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,381 --> 00:00:02,045\n謝謝主席。有請我們的部長。\n\n2\n00:00:09,230 --> 00:00:28,849\n委員好部長早部長大家都知道你以前是氣象專家對於這個氣象預報頗有心得那我想請問對於這一次的山陀而颱風路徑真的很詭異在我們台灣真的非常的緩慢我們都在想說他到底是什麼時候進來滯留非常久然後讓我們緊繃了將近一週那部長我想請問你認為對於這一次颱風的氣象預報是否有失準的疑慮\n\n3\n00:00:33,833 --> 00:00:57,572\n報告委員因為這不是我的工作職責所以我上任之後也謹守這個規範都沒有對外的一個發言不過我必須說因為氣象預報本身就是很困難這是颱風入境又很詭譎但是本來就要用這個監測取代這個預報所以如果我們回頭看這個數據的話其實我必須說我們的氣象工作人員有做到他該有的職責但是還有進步的空間\n\n4\n00:00:58,973 --> 00:01:22,298\n謝謝部長我想是面對這種越來越極端的氣候即便我們科技在怎麼發展或者是即便累積在怎麼多的經驗我想會遇到的狀況還很多我想尤其是這樣詭異的颱風和詭異的氣候我想也是大多數人的這個共識所以我想面對這樣的氣候我們應該是部長應該是不是也認同我們應該要料敵重演當然是要重演對嘛要重演嘛對\n\n5\n00:01:23,038 --> 00:01:49,228\n好但是呢某大公司的前董事長對於颱風架這件事情多有批評首先罵很多民眾說趁著颱風架出去吃喝玩樂逛百貨公司根本看不出必要那所謂颱風架根本是地方政府討好選民的政治操作再來又說放颱風架在他看來是缺乏韌性的表現那部長你會覺得這個颱風架是政治性加起或是民眾缺乏韌性的爛草莓表現嗎\n\n6\n00:01:50,789 --> 00:02:17,690\n我曾經參與過很多地方政府的這個颱風假的放假的決定那目前我是覺得我認為是政治的其實是很低很低的那當然啦民眾是總是希望多一點這個放鬆的這個機會這個是人情啦所以這個制度到底有沒有調整的空間我個人認為是可以有但是也請委員知道說我們臺灣社會對於這個颱風假的看法已經非常的民粹了所以要改不是那麼容易做得到的事情\n\n7\n00:02:19,091 --> 00:02:48,691\n那好吧那我覺得你剛剛也說了就是颱風假有其必要性我想在極端氣候之下我想即便放假後無風無雨我想即便是這樣子我覺得大家應該也是要慶幸說沒有發生太多的災害所以我覺得並不應該怪罪地方的首長或是民眾雖然說現在大家這個所謂想放颱風假的意願可能也有別的原因所以我想對於防災就是應該不會說要太過小心那放假的民眾也不能說他們就是任性不足\n\n8\n00:02:49,431 --> 00:03:17,399\n那最後一關有關這個颱風的問題其實去年中央氣象局改制升格為暑那組織法中也把氣候業務包含氣候變遷業務納入那我想這部分也是跨領域的包含環境、農業、交通等等的問題那其中我想局跟暑最大的差別是局是執行業務暑還可以擬定政策那去年在法規修訂的時候也有人提出說這個暑是不是應該要把它\n\n9\n00:03:18,339 --> 00:03:47,382\n氣象局應該要納入到環境部底下變成這個這樣子升格為屬請問部長怎麼看我想這樣調整會不會更名符其實這個委員因為這個很敏感我是氣象出身當環境部部長這個事情我是覺得可以讓大家來討論但是我們因為環境部有氣候變遷署我們比較做長期的他們是短期那短期可能是跟交通部的這個職長是比較相近的不過他們氣象人員\n\n10\n00:03:47,722 --> 00:03:48,182\n謝謝部長謝謝你的這個意見我想我大概也了解\n\n11\n00:04:17,753 --> 00:04:42,118\n總之呢也是一樣就是這個有關於氣候變遷等等的我想這個在跟環境部的業務也都有相關那這個可以的確是大家可以好好來討論的那再來就是我們垃圾山的問題回到今天討論垃圾山的問題那在今天環境部提供的報告裡面可以歸結出垃圾處理量能不足跟新增垃圾的太多應該是減少這個應該減少的兩個主要原因\n\n12\n00:04:45,299 --> 00:05:00,496\n若不從這兩個方面改善現在的垃圾山就只會越來越大也有人諷刺這是臺灣的新百月所以我也想請教部長其實也有媒體說最大問題是減少塑膠使用上也就是塑膠減塑的政策應該要更徹底的執行\n\n13\n00:05:01,517 --> 00:05:15,533\n又或者是說有業者用產業原料的名義進口這個國外的垃圾進來加工再加工那是不是可以應該要跟經濟部討論一下限制這個國外的垃圾進口部長對此怎麼看\n\n14\n00:05:16,774 --> 00:05:41,383\n國際垃圾是我們不會讓它進口到臺灣做SRF的所以這個請委員可以放心那至於說源頭減量呢這是最重要的工作其實我們環境部其實有編列這個我們有一個資源回收基金大概有80億其實就在做這個事情所以其實我們的源頭減量的預算比末端處理的還要多很多啦部長我想這裡用產業原料它不一定是做SRF吧它可能會進來加工成其他的東西會不會有這樣的狀況\n\n15\n00:05:43,155 --> 00:06:00,692\n我必須跟委員報告,其實某方面齁,任何的東西都不應該把它變成垃圾啦。的確,例如說我舉例,台積電也要進口一些礦石細元,礦石進來,稀有礦土進來,把它變成晶圓,這樣做循環的一個處理啊。那你它也,你某方面在那個地方可能是垃圾啊,到這個地方變黃金啊。\n\n16\n00:06:01,733 --> 00:06:21,727\n所以其實這個部分呢民眾關心的是不是有國際垃圾這個我們會努力的來監控也希望各位很多的民眾要是有疑慮的話都歡迎告訴我們有沒有這種進口垃圾的問題是那可不可以請部長之後把這個相關的資料和報告可以在一個月或兩個月內交給本席好不好沒問題那兩個月好了\n\n17\n00:06:24,441 --> 00:06:39,108\n檢索政策從這個源頭管理這個垃圾產生喔那部長有沒有發現其實每次這樣推廣的政策都會有民怨產生喔那實際上也會將這個店家產生無形的負擔那國外反而也有越來越用越多的情形喔顯見說檢索政策\n\n18\n00:06:40,649 --> 00:06:40,829\n〔廖偉翔〕\n\n19\n00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:28,300\n那部長今天簡報中有提到說112年戰制的裸露垃圾掩埋場共53場那累計84萬噸那至今年的8月為止已經降到49場72萬噸可是你們現在用的是所謂的這個掩埋附土跟分泉打包的兩種方式處理這並不是完全的去化而且是而是將這個裸露垃圾做到暫時處置的基本要求而已那我想要請教部長\n\n20\n00:07:30,002 --> 00:07:50,779\n84萬噸的垃圾何時可以完全去化?是否為民國136年?因為我看到好像有人這樣的說法目前我們設定是3年等於是126年完全去化84萬噸變成是妥善處理完妥善處理就像我剛說的就是那兩種方式對但是我說這並非完全去化那你覺得84萬噸的\n\n21\n00:07:52,620 --> 00:07:52,800\n目前您這個\n\n22\n00:08:48,810 --> 00:09:18,310\n這個除了現在建置監控之外有沒有辦法在每個垃圾場設置這種移動式的水塔能夠快速撲滅垃圾山的火災有報委員這個高風險的這個掩埋場其實都有這樣的這個措施不過我也跟委員報告其實我到很多國外的垃圾山掩埋場或是垃圾處理設備他們也都常常發生火災因為我們的民眾的回收包含我們的手機亂丟電池亂丟現在這種鋰電池都很容易造成火災這個我們還是要從源頭做起啦\n\n23\n00:09:19,391 --> 00:09:38,992\n對那我意思是說那現在還有更具體的處理的方法嗎目前說真的有時候民眾自己把自己丟到那邊我們去做分類這個成本會非常高我們還是要從民眾的呼籲在進行所以我剛剛意思是說所以你不是每一個垃圾你只是把分類說高風險的對高風險的那沒有不是高風險的呢會不會有可能會發生對\n\n24\n00:09:40,413 --> 00:09:58,701\n我就是基本上有高風險的大概都有消防的這個設備那我們會逐步的有需要的我們就會來進行目前應該是沒有全面的都有裝沒有全面沒有全面對不過我們在這個未來3年會投入12億來處理這件事所以這件事情未來也會去執行好那這部分再拜託部長謝謝\n\n25\n00:10:00,161 --> 00:10:21,538\n最後我還是想要問,所以再重新回到剛剛的問題,因為你剛剛說3年內要解決垃圾山問題,那我還是想要問說,所以依照部長的定義,其實好像就是目前的這兩種方案而已對不對?對對好,那你目前上任半年了,你自己評估有辦法達到這樣子的承諾嗎?可以,因為現在我們已經全面在發報在進行了,應該可以達到3年內可以\n\n26\n00:10:22,739 --> 00:10:38,598\n但是我還是希望部長可以跟長遠來看因為我覺得完全去化才是終點這個只是暫時性處理所以這三年好我想希望至少部長可以再往未來完全去化的方向努力謝謝我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n381\t2045\t謝謝主席。有請我們的部長。\n9230\t28849\t委員好部長早部長大家都知道你以前是氣象專家對於這個氣象預報頗有心得那我想請問對於這一次的山陀而颱風路徑真的很詭異在我們台灣真的非常的緩慢我們都在想說他到底是什麼時候進來滯留非常久然後讓我們緊繃了將近一週那部長我想請問你認為對於這一次颱風的氣象預報是否有失準的疑慮\n33833\t57572\t報告委員因為這不是我的工作職責所以我上任之後也謹守這個規範都沒有對外的一個發言不過我必須說因為氣象預報本身就是很困難這是颱風入境又很詭譎但是本來就要用這個監測取代這個預報所以如果我們回頭看這個數據的話其實我必須說我們的氣象工作人員有做到他該有的職責但是還有進步的空間\n58973\t82298\t謝謝部長我想是面對這種越來越極端的氣候即便我們科技在怎麼發展或者是即便累積在怎麼多的經驗我想會遇到的狀況還很多我想尤其是這樣詭異的颱風和詭異的氣候我想也是大多數人的這個共識所以我想面對這樣的氣候我們應該是部長應該是不是也認同我們應該要料敵重演當然是要重演對嘛要重演嘛對\n83038\t109228\t好但是呢某大公司的前董事長對於颱風架這件事情多有批評首先罵很多民眾說趁著颱風架出去吃喝玩樂逛百貨公司根本看不出必要那所謂颱風架根本是地方政府討好選民的政治操作再來又說放颱風架在他看來是缺乏韌性的表現那部長你會覺得這個颱風架是政治性加起或是民眾缺乏韌性的爛草莓表現嗎\n110789\t137690\t我曾經參與過很多地方政府的這個颱風假的放假的決定那目前我是覺得我認為是政治的其實是很低很低的那當然啦民眾是總是希望多一點這個放鬆的這個機會這個是人情啦所以這個制度到底有沒有調整的空間我個人認為是可以有但是也請委員知道說我們臺灣社會對於這個颱風假的看法已經非常的民粹了所以要改不是那麼容易做得到的事情\n139091\t168691\t那好吧那我覺得你剛剛也說了就是颱風假有其必要性我想在極端氣候之下我想即便放假後無風無雨我想即便是這樣子我覺得大家應該也是要慶幸說沒有發生太多的災害所以我覺得並不應該怪罪地方的首長或是民眾雖然說現在大家這個所謂想放颱風假的意願可能也有別的原因所以我想對於防災就是應該不會說要太過小心那放假的民眾也不能說他們就是任性不足\n169431\t197399\t那最後一關有關這個颱風的問題其實去年中央氣象局改制升格為暑那組織法中也把氣候業務包含氣候變遷業務納入那我想這部分也是跨領域的包含環境、農業、交通等等的問題那其中我想局跟暑最大的差別是局是執行業務暑還可以擬定政策那去年在法規修訂的時候也有人提出說這個暑是不是應該要把它\n198339\t227382\t氣象局應該要納入到環境部底下變成這個這樣子升格為屬請問部長怎麼看我想這樣調整會不會更名符其實這個委員因為這個很敏感我是氣象出身當環境部部長這個事情我是覺得可以讓大家來討論但是我們因為環境部有氣候變遷署我們比較做長期的他們是短期那短期可能是跟交通部的這個職長是比較相近的不過他們氣象人員\n227722\t228182\t謝謝部長謝謝你的這個意見我想我大概也了解\n257753\t282118\t總之呢也是一樣就是這個有關於氣候變遷等等的我想這個在跟環境部的業務也都有相關那這個可以的確是大家可以好好來討論的那再來就是我們垃圾山的問題回到今天討論垃圾山的問題那在今天環境部提供的報告裡面可以歸結出垃圾處理量能不足跟新增垃圾的太多應該是減少這個應該減少的兩個主要原因\n285299\t300496\t若不從這兩個方面改善現在的垃圾山就只會越來越大也有人諷刺這是臺灣的新百月所以我也想請教部長其實也有媒體說最大問題是減少塑膠使用上也就是塑膠減塑的政策應該要更徹底的執行\n301517\t315533\t又或者是說有業者用產業原料的名義進口這個國外的垃圾進來加工再加工那是不是可以應該要跟經濟部討論一下限制這個國外的垃圾進口部長對此怎麼看\n316774\t341383\t國際垃圾是我們不會讓它進口到臺灣做SRF的所以這個請委員可以放心那至於說源頭減量呢這是最重要的工作其實我們環境部其實有編列這個我們有一個資源回收基金大概有80億其實就在做這個事情所以其實我們的源頭減量的預算比末端處理的還要多很多啦部長我想這裡用產業原料它不一定是做SRF吧它可能會進來加工成其他的東西會不會有這樣的狀況\n343155\t360692\t我必須跟委員報告,其實某方面齁,任何的東西都不應該把它變成垃圾啦。的確,例如說我舉例,台積電也要進口一些礦石細元,礦石進來,稀有礦土進來,把它變成晶圓,這樣做循環的一個處理啊。那你它也,你某方面在那個地方可能是垃圾啊,到這個地方變黃金啊。\n361733\t381727\t所以其實這個部分呢民眾關心的是不是有國際垃圾這個我們會努力的來監控也希望各位很多的民眾要是有疑慮的話都歡迎告訴我們有沒有這種進口垃圾的問題是那可不可以請部長之後把這個相關的資料和報告可以在一個月或兩個月內交給本席好不好沒問題那兩個月好了\n384441\t399108\t檢索政策從這個源頭管理這個垃圾產生喔那部長有沒有發現其實每次這樣推廣的政策都會有民怨產生喔那實際上也會將這個店家產生無形的負擔那國外反而也有越來越用越多的情形喔顯見說檢索政策\n400649\t400829\t〔廖偉翔〕\n420279\t448300\t那部長今天簡報中有提到說112年戰制的裸露垃圾掩埋場共53場那累計84萬噸那至今年的8月為止已經降到49場72萬噸可是你們現在用的是所謂的這個掩埋附土跟分泉打包的兩種方式處理這並不是完全的去化而且是而是將這個裸露垃圾做到暫時處置的基本要求而已那我想要請教部長\n450002\t470779\t84萬噸的垃圾何時可以完全去化?是否為民國136年?因為我看到好像有人這樣的說法目前我們設定是3年等於是126年完全去化84萬噸變成是妥善處理完妥善處理就像我剛說的就是那兩種方式對但是我說這並非完全去化那你覺得84萬噸的\n472620\t472800\t目前您這個\n502500\t528387\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n528810\t558310\t這個除了現在建置監控之外有沒有辦法在每個垃圾場設置這種移動式的水塔能夠快速撲滅垃圾山的火災有報委員這個高風險的這個掩埋場其實都有這樣的這個措施不過我也跟委員報告其實我到很多國外的垃圾山掩埋場或是垃圾處理設備他們也都常常發生火災因為我們的民眾的回收包含我們的手機亂丟電池亂丟現在這種鋰電池都很容易造成火災這個我們還是要從源頭做起啦\n559391\t578992\t對那我意思是說那現在還有更具體的處理的方法嗎目前說真的有時候民眾自己把自己丟到那邊我們去做分類這個成本會非常高我們還是要從民眾的呼籲在進行所以我剛剛意思是說所以你不是每一個垃圾你只是把分類說高風險的對高風險的那沒有不是高風險的呢會不會有可能會發生對\n580413\t598701\t我就是基本上有高風險的大概都有消防的這個設備那我們會逐步的有需要的我們就會來進行目前應該是沒有全面的都有裝沒有全面沒有全面對不過我們在這個未來3年會投入12億來處理這件事所以這件事情未來也會去執行好那這部分再拜託部長謝謝\n600161\t621538\t最後我還是想要問,所以再重新回到剛剛的問題,因為你剛剛說3年內要解決垃圾山問題,那我還是想要問說,所以依照部長的定義,其實好像就是目前的這兩種方案而已對不對?對對好,那你目前上任半年了,你自己評估有辦法達到這樣子的承諾嗎?可以,因為現在我們已經全面在發報在進行了,應該可以達到3年內可以\n622739\t638598\t但是我還是希望部長可以跟長遠來看因為我覺得完全去化才是終點這個只是暫時性處理所以這三年好我想希望至少部長可以再往未來完全去化的方向努力謝謝我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席。有請我們的部長。\n委員好部長早部長大家都知道你以前是氣象專家對於這個氣象預報頗有心得那我想請問對於這一次的山陀而颱風路徑真的很詭異在我們台灣真的非常的緩慢我們都在想說他到底是什麼時候進來滯留非常久然後讓我們緊繃了將近一週那部長我想請問你認為對於這一次颱風的氣象預報是否有失準的疑慮\n報告委員因為這不是我的工作職責所以我上任之後也謹守這個規範都沒有對外的一個發言不過我必須說因為氣象預報本身就是很困難這是颱風入境又很詭譎但是本來就要用這個監測取代這個預報所以如果我們回頭看這個數據的話其實我必須說我們的氣象工作人員有做到他該有的職責但是還有進步的空間\n謝謝部長我想是面對這種越來越極端的氣候即便我們科技在怎麼發展或者是即便累積在怎麼多的經驗我想會遇到的狀況還很多我想尤其是這樣詭異的颱風和詭異的氣候我想也是大多數人的這個共識所以我想面對這樣的氣候我們應該是部長應該是不是也認同我們應該要料敵重演當然是要重演對嘛要重演嘛對\n好但是呢某大公司的前董事長對於颱風架這件事情多有批評首先罵很多民眾說趁著颱風架出去吃喝玩樂逛百貨公司根本看不出必要那所謂颱風架根本是地方政府討好選民的政治操作再來又說放颱風架在他看來是缺乏韌性的表現那部長你會覺得這個颱風架是政治性加起或是民眾缺乏韌性的爛草莓表現嗎\n我曾經參與過很多地方政府的這個颱風假的放假的決定那目前我是覺得我認為是政治的其實是很低很低的那當然啦民眾是總是希望多一點這個放鬆的這個機會這個是人情啦所以這個制度到底有沒有調整的空間我個人認為是可以有但是也請委員知道說我們臺灣社會對於這個颱風假的看法已經非常的民粹了所以要改不是那麼容易做得到的事情\n那好吧那我覺得你剛剛也說了就是颱風假有其必要性我想在極端氣候之下我想即便放假後無風無雨我想即便是這樣子我覺得大家應該也是要慶幸說沒有發生太多的災害所以我覺得並不應該怪罪地方的首長或是民眾雖然說現在大家這個所謂想放颱風假的意願可能也有別的原因所以我想對於防災就是應該不會說要太過小心那放假的民眾也不能說他們就是任性不足\n那最後一關有關這個颱風的問題其實去年中央氣象局改制升格為暑那組織法中也把氣候業務包含氣候變遷業務納入那我想這部分也是跨領域的包含環境、農業、交通等等的問題那其中我想局跟暑最大的差別是局是執行業務暑還可以擬定政策那去年在法規修訂的時候也有人提出說這個暑是不是應該要把它\n氣象局應該要納入到環境部底下變成這個這樣子升格為屬請問部長怎麼看我想這樣調整會不會更名符其實這個委員因為這個很敏感我是氣象出身當環境部部長這個事情我是覺得可以讓大家來討論但是我們因為環境部有氣候變遷署我們比較做長期的他們是短期那短期可能是跟交通部的這個職長是比較相近的不過他們氣象人員\n謝謝部長謝謝你的這個意見我想我大概也了解\n總之呢也是一樣就是這個有關於氣候變遷等等的我想這個在跟環境部的業務也都有相關那這個可以的確是大家可以好好來討論的那再來就是我們垃圾山的問題回到今天討論垃圾山的問題那在今天環境部提供的報告裡面可以歸結出垃圾處理量能不足跟新增垃圾的太多應該是減少這個應該減少的兩個主要原因\n若不從這兩個方面改善現在的垃圾山就只會越來越大也有人諷刺這是臺灣的新百月所以我也想請教部長其實也有媒體說最大問題是減少塑膠使用上也就是塑膠減塑的政策應該要更徹底的執行\n又或者是說有業者用產業原料的名義進口這個國外的垃圾進來加工再加工那是不是可以應該要跟經濟部討論一下限制這個國外的垃圾進口部長對此怎麼看\n國際垃圾是我們不會讓它進口到臺灣做SRF的所以這個請委員可以放心那至於說源頭減量呢這是最重要的工作其實我們環境部其實有編列這個我們有一個資源回收基金大概有80億其實就在做這個事情所以其實我們的源頭減量的預算比末端處理的還要多很多啦部長我想這裡用產業原料它不一定是做SRF吧它可能會進來加工成其他的東西會不會有這樣的狀況\n我必須跟委員報告,其實某方面齁,任何的東西都不應該把它變成垃圾啦。的確,例如說我舉例,台積電也要進口一些礦石細元,礦石進來,稀有礦土進來,把它變成晶圓,這樣做循環的一個處理啊。那你它也,你某方面在那個地方可能是垃圾啊,到這個地方變黃金啊。\n所以其實這個部分呢民眾關心的是不是有國際垃圾這個我們會努力的來監控也希望各位很多的民眾要是有疑慮的話都歡迎告訴我們有沒有這種進口垃圾的問題是那可不可以請部長之後把這個相關的資料和報告可以在一個月或兩個月內交給本席好不好沒問題那兩個月好了\n檢索政策從這個源頭管理這個垃圾產生喔那部長有沒有發現其實每次這樣推廣的政策都會有民怨產生喔那實際上也會將這個店家產生無形的負擔那國外反而也有越來越用越多的情形喔顯見說檢索政策\n〔廖偉翔〕\n那部長今天簡報中有提到說112年戰制的裸露垃圾掩埋場共53場那累計84萬噸那至今年的8月為止已經降到49場72萬噸可是你們現在用的是所謂的這個掩埋附土跟分泉打包的兩種方式處理這並不是完全的去化而且是而是將這個裸露垃圾做到暫時處置的基本要求而已那我想要請教部長\n84萬噸的垃圾何時可以完全去化?是否為民國136年?因為我看到好像有人這樣的說法目前我們設定是3年等於是126年完全去化84萬噸變成是妥善處理完妥善處理就像我剛說的就是那兩種方式對但是我說這並非完全去化那你覺得84萬噸的\n目前您這個\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n這個除了現在建置監控之外有沒有辦法在每個垃圾場設置這種移動式的水塔能夠快速撲滅垃圾山的火災有報委員這個高風險的這個掩埋場其實都有這樣的這個措施不過我也跟委員報告其實我到很多國外的垃圾山掩埋場或是垃圾處理設備他們也都常常發生火災因為我們的民眾的回收包含我們的手機亂丟電池亂丟現在這種鋰電池都很容易造成火災這個我們還是要從源頭做起啦\n對那我意思是說那現在還有更具體的處理的方法嗎目前說真的有時候民眾自己把自己丟到那邊我們去做分類這個成本會非常高我們還是要從民眾的呼籲在進行所以我剛剛意思是說所以你不是每一個垃圾你只是把分類說高風險的對高風險的那沒有不是高風險的呢會不會有可能會發生對\n我就是基本上有高風險的大概都有消防的這個設備那我們會逐步的有需要的我們就會來進行目前應該是沒有全面的都有裝沒有全面沒有全面對不過我們在這個未來3年會投入12億來處理這件事所以這件事情未來也會去執行好那這部分再拜託部長謝謝\n最後我還是想要問,所以再重新回到剛剛的問題,因為你剛剛說3年內要解決垃圾山問題,那我還是想要問說,所以依照部長的定義,其實好像就是目前的這兩種方案而已對不對?對對好,那你目前上任半年了,你自己評估有辦法達到這樣子的承諾嗎?可以,因為現在我們已經全面在發報在進行了,應該可以達到3年內可以\n但是我還是希望部長可以跟長遠來看因為我覺得完全去化才是終點這個只是暫時性處理所以這三年好我想希望至少部長可以再往未來完全去化的方向努力謝謝我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.381 --> 00:02.045\n謝謝主席。有請我們的部長。\n\n00:09.230 --> 00:28.849\n委員好部長早部長大家都知道你以前是氣象專家對於這個氣象預報頗有心得那我想請問對於這一次的山陀而颱風路徑真的很詭異在我們台灣真的非常的緩慢我們都在想說他到底是什麼時候進來滯留非常久然後讓我們緊繃了將近一週那部長我想請問你認為對於這一次颱風的氣象預報是否有失準的疑慮\n\n00:33.833 --> 00:57.572\n報告委員因為這不是我的工作職責所以我上任之後也謹守這個規範都沒有對外的一個發言不過我必須說因為氣象預報本身就是很困難這是颱風入境又很詭譎但是本來就要用這個監測取代這個預報所以如果我們回頭看這個數據的話其實我必須說我們的氣象工作人員有做到他該有的職責但是還有進步的空間\n\n00:58.973 --> 01:22.298\n謝謝部長我想是面對這種越來越極端的氣候即便我們科技在怎麼發展或者是即便累積在怎麼多的經驗我想會遇到的狀況還很多我想尤其是這樣詭異的颱風和詭異的氣候我想也是大多數人的這個共識所以我想面對這樣的氣候我們應該是部長應該是不是也認同我們應該要料敵重演當然是要重演對嘛要重演嘛對\n\n01:23.038 --> 01:49.228\n好但是呢某大公司的前董事長對於颱風架這件事情多有批評首先罵很多民眾說趁著颱風架出去吃喝玩樂逛百貨公司根本看不出必要那所謂颱風架根本是地方政府討好選民的政治操作再來又說放颱風架在他看來是缺乏韌性的表現那部長你會覺得這個颱風架是政治性加起或是民眾缺乏韌性的爛草莓表現嗎\n\n01:50.789 --> 02:17.690\n我曾經參與過很多地方政府的這個颱風假的放假的決定那目前我是覺得我認為是政治的其實是很低很低的那當然啦民眾是總是希望多一點這個放鬆的這個機會這個是人情啦所以這個制度到底有沒有調整的空間我個人認為是可以有但是也請委員知道說我們臺灣社會對於這個颱風假的看法已經非常的民粹了所以要改不是那麼容易做得到的事情\n\n02:19.091 --> 02:48.691\n那好吧那我覺得你剛剛也說了就是颱風假有其必要性我想在極端氣候之下我想即便放假後無風無雨我想即便是這樣子我覺得大家應該也是要慶幸說沒有發生太多的災害所以我覺得並不應該怪罪地方的首長或是民眾雖然說現在大家這個所謂想放颱風假的意願可能也有別的原因所以我想對於防災就是應該不會說要太過小心那放假的民眾也不能說他們就是任性不足\n\n02:49.431 --> 03:17.399\n那最後一關有關這個颱風的問題其實去年中央氣象局改制升格為暑那組織法中也把氣候業務包含氣候變遷業務納入那我想這部分也是跨領域的包含環境、農業、交通等等的問題那其中我想局跟暑最大的差別是局是執行業務暑還可以擬定政策那去年在法規修訂的時候也有人提出說這個暑是不是應該要把它\n\n03:18.339 --> 03:47.382\n氣象局應該要納入到環境部底下變成這個這樣子升格為屬請問部長怎麼看我想這樣調整會不會更名符其實這個委員因為這個很敏感我是氣象出身當環境部部長這個事情我是覺得可以讓大家來討論但是我們因為環境部有氣候變遷署我們比較做長期的他們是短期那短期可能是跟交通部的這個職長是比較相近的不過他們氣象人員\n\n03:47.722 --> 03:48.182\n謝謝部長謝謝你的這個意見我想我大概也了解\n\n04:17.753 --> 04:42.118\n總之呢也是一樣就是這個有關於氣候變遷等等的我想這個在跟環境部的業務也都有相關那這個可以的確是大家可以好好來討論的那再來就是我們垃圾山的問題回到今天討論垃圾山的問題那在今天環境部提供的報告裡面可以歸結出垃圾處理量能不足跟新增垃圾的太多應該是減少這個應該減少的兩個主要原因\n\n04:45.299 --> 05:00.496\n若不從這兩個方面改善現在的垃圾山就只會越來越大也有人諷刺這是臺灣的新百月所以我也想請教部長其實也有媒體說最大問題是減少塑膠使用上也就是塑膠減塑的政策應該要更徹底的執行\n\n05:01.517 --> 05:15.533\n又或者是說有業者用產業原料的名義進口這個國外的垃圾進來加工再加工那是不是可以應該要跟經濟部討論一下限制這個國外的垃圾進口部長對此怎麼看\n\n05:16.774 --> 05:41.383\n國際垃圾是我們不會讓它進口到臺灣做SRF的所以這個請委員可以放心那至於說源頭減量呢這是最重要的工作其實我們環境部其實有編列這個我們有一個資源回收基金大概有80億其實就在做這個事情所以其實我們的源頭減量的預算比末端處理的還要多很多啦部長我想這裡用產業原料它不一定是做SRF吧它可能會進來加工成其他的東西會不會有這樣的狀況\n\n05:43.155 --> 06:00.692\n我必須跟委員報告,其實某方面齁,任何的東西都不應該把它變成垃圾啦。的確,例如說我舉例,台積電也要進口一些礦石細元,礦石進來,稀有礦土進來,把它變成晶圓,這樣做循環的一個處理啊。那你它也,你某方面在那個地方可能是垃圾啊,到這個地方變黃金啊。\n\n06:01.733 --> 06:21.727\n所以其實這個部分呢民眾關心的是不是有國際垃圾這個我們會努力的來監控也希望各位很多的民眾要是有疑慮的話都歡迎告訴我們有沒有這種進口垃圾的問題是那可不可以請部長之後把這個相關的資料和報告可以在一個月或兩個月內交給本席好不好沒問題那兩個月好了\n\n06:24.441 --> 06:39.108\n檢索政策從這個源頭管理這個垃圾產生喔那部長有沒有發現其實每次這樣推廣的政策都會有民怨產生喔那實際上也會將這個店家產生無形的負擔那國外反而也有越來越用越多的情形喔顯見說檢索政策\n\n06:40.649 --> 06:40.829\n〔廖偉翔〕\n\n07:00.279 --> 07:28.300\n那部長今天簡報中有提到說112年戰制的裸露垃圾掩埋場共53場那累計84萬噸那至今年的8月為止已經降到49場72萬噸可是你們現在用的是所謂的這個掩埋附土跟分泉打包的兩種方式處理這並不是完全的去化而且是而是將這個裸露垃圾做到暫時處置的基本要求而已那我想要請教部長\n\n07:30.002 --> 07:50.779\n84萬噸的垃圾何時可以完全去化?是否為民國136年?因為我看到好像有人這樣的說法目前我們設定是3年等於是126年完全去化84萬噸變成是妥善處理完妥善處理就像我剛說的就是那兩種方式對但是我說這並非完全去化那你覺得84萬噸的\n\n07:52.620 --> 07:52.800\n目前您這個\n\n08:48.810 --> 09:18.310\n這個除了現在建置監控之外有沒有辦法在每個垃圾場設置這種移動式的水塔能夠快速撲滅垃圾山的火災有報委員這個高風險的這個掩埋場其實都有這樣的這個措施不過我也跟委員報告其實我到很多國外的垃圾山掩埋場或是垃圾處理設備他們也都常常發生火災因為我們的民眾的回收包含我們的手機亂丟電池亂丟現在這種鋰電池都很容易造成火災這個我們還是要從源頭做起啦\n\n09:19.391 --> 09:38.992\n對那我意思是說那現在還有更具體的處理的方法嗎目前說真的有時候民眾自己把自己丟到那邊我們去做分類這個成本會非常高我們還是要從民眾的呼籲在進行所以我剛剛意思是說所以你不是每一個垃圾你只是把分類說高風險的對高風險的那沒有不是高風險的呢會不會有可能會發生對\n\n09:40.413 --> 09:58.701\n我就是基本上有高風險的大概都有消防的這個設備那我們會逐步的有需要的我們就會來進行目前應該是沒有全面的都有裝沒有全面沒有全面對不過我們在這個未來3年會投入12億來處理這件事所以這件事情未來也會去執行好那這部分再拜託部長謝謝\n\n10:00.161 --> 10:21.538\n最後我還是想要問,所以再重新回到剛剛的問題,因為你剛剛說3年內要解決垃圾山問題,那我還是想要問說,所以依照部長的定義,其實好像就是目前的這兩種方案而已對不對?對對好,那你目前上任半年了,你自己評估有辦法達到這樣子的承諾嗎?可以,因為現在我們已經全面在發報在進行了,應該可以達到3年內可以\n\n10:22.739 --> 10:38.598\n但是我還是希望部長可以跟長遠來看因為我覺得完全去化才是終點這個只是暫時性處理所以這三年好我想希望至少部長可以再往未來完全去化的方向努力謝謝我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.381,"end":2.045,"text":"謝謝主席。有請我們的部長。"},{"start":9.23,"end":28.849,"text":"委員好部長早部長大家都知道你以前是氣象專家對於這個氣象預報頗有心得那我想請問對於這一次的山陀而颱風路徑真的很詭異在我們台灣真的非常的緩慢我們都在想說他到底是什麼時候進來滯留非常久然後讓我們緊繃了將近一週那部長我想請問你認為對於這一次颱風的氣象預報是否有失準的疑慮"},{"start":33.833,"end":57.572,"text":"報告委員因為這不是我的工作職責所以我上任之後也謹守這個規範都沒有對外的一個發言不過我必須說因為氣象預報本身就是很困難這是颱風入境又很詭譎但是本來就要用這個監測取代這個預報所以如果我們回頭看這個數據的話其實我必須說我們的氣象工作人員有做到他該有的職責但是還有進步的空間"},{"start":58.973,"end":82.298,"text":"謝謝部長我想是面對這種越來越極端的氣候即便我們科技在怎麼發展或者是即便累積在怎麼多的經驗我想會遇到的狀況還很多我想尤其是這樣詭異的颱風和詭異的氣候我想也是大多數人的這個共識所以我想面對這樣的氣候我們應該是部長應該是不是也認同我們應該要料敵重演當然是要重演對嘛要重演嘛對"},{"start":83.038,"end":109.228,"text":"好但是呢某大公司的前董事長對於颱風架這件事情多有批評首先罵很多民眾說趁著颱風架出去吃喝玩樂逛百貨公司根本看不出必要那所謂颱風架根本是地方政府討好選民的政治操作再來又說放颱風架在他看來是缺乏韌性的表現那部長你會覺得這個颱風架是政治性加起或是民眾缺乏韌性的爛草莓表現嗎"},{"start":110.789,"end":137.69,"text":"我曾經參與過很多地方政府的這個颱風假的放假的決定那目前我是覺得我認為是政治的其實是很低很低的那當然啦民眾是總是希望多一點這個放鬆的這個機會這個是人情啦所以這個制度到底有沒有調整的空間我個人認為是可以有但是也請委員知道說我們臺灣社會對於這個颱風假的看法已經非常的民粹了所以要改不是那麼容易做得到的事情"},{"start":139.091,"end":168.691,"text":"那好吧那我覺得你剛剛也說了就是颱風假有其必要性我想在極端氣候之下我想即便放假後無風無雨我想即便是這樣子我覺得大家應該也是要慶幸說沒有發生太多的災害所以我覺得並不應該怪罪地方的首長或是民眾雖然說現在大家這個所謂想放颱風假的意願可能也有別的原因所以我想對於防災就是應該不會說要太過小心那放假的民眾也不能說他們就是任性不足"},{"start":169.431,"end":197.399,"text":"那最後一關有關這個颱風的問題其實去年中央氣象局改制升格為暑那組織法中也把氣候業務包含氣候變遷業務納入那我想這部分也是跨領域的包含環境、農業、交通等等的問題那其中我想局跟暑最大的差別是局是執行業務暑還可以擬定政策那去年在法規修訂的時候也有人提出說這個暑是不是應該要把它"},{"start":198.339,"end":227.382,"text":"氣象局應該要納入到環境部底下變成這個這樣子升格為屬請問部長怎麼看我想這樣調整會不會更名符其實這個委員因為這個很敏感我是氣象出身當環境部部長這個事情我是覺得可以讓大家來討論但是我們因為環境部有氣候變遷署我們比較做長期的他們是短期那短期可能是跟交通部的這個職長是比較相近的不過他們氣象人員"},{"start":227.722,"end":228.182,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝你的這個意見我想我大概也了解"},{"start":257.753,"end":282.118,"text":"總之呢也是一樣就是這個有關於氣候變遷等等的我想這個在跟環境部的業務也都有相關那這個可以的確是大家可以好好來討論的那再來就是我們垃圾山的問題回到今天討論垃圾山的問題那在今天環境部提供的報告裡面可以歸結出垃圾處理量能不足跟新增垃圾的太多應該是減少這個應該減少的兩個主要原因"},{"start":285.299,"end":300.496,"text":"若不從這兩個方面改善現在的垃圾山就只會越來越大也有人諷刺這是臺灣的新百月所以我也想請教部長其實也有媒體說最大問題是減少塑膠使用上也就是塑膠減塑的政策應該要更徹底的執行"},{"start":301.517,"end":315.533,"text":"又或者是說有業者用產業原料的名義進口這個國外的垃圾進來加工再加工那是不是可以應該要跟經濟部討論一下限制這個國外的垃圾進口部長對此怎麼看"},{"start":316.774,"end":341.383,"text":"國際垃圾是我們不會讓它進口到臺灣做SRF的所以這個請委員可以放心那至於說源頭減量呢這是最重要的工作其實我們環境部其實有編列這個我們有一個資源回收基金大概有80億其實就在做這個事情所以其實我們的源頭減量的預算比末端處理的還要多很多啦部長我想這裡用產業原料它不一定是做SRF吧它可能會進來加工成其他的東西會不會有這樣的狀況"},{"start":343.155,"end":360.692,"text":"我必須跟委員報告,其實某方面齁,任何的東西都不應該把它變成垃圾啦。的確,例如說我舉例,台積電也要進口一些礦石細元,礦石進來,稀有礦土進來,把它變成晶圓,這樣做循環的一個處理啊。那你它也,你某方面在那個地方可能是垃圾啊,到這個地方變黃金啊。"},{"start":361.733,"end":381.727,"text":"所以其實這個部分呢民眾關心的是不是有國際垃圾這個我們會努力的來監控也希望各位很多的民眾要是有疑慮的話都歡迎告訴我們有沒有這種進口垃圾的問題是那可不可以請部長之後把這個相關的資料和報告可以在一個月或兩個月內交給本席好不好沒問題那兩個月好了"},{"start":384.441,"end":399.108,"text":"檢索政策從這個源頭管理這個垃圾產生喔那部長有沒有發現其實每次這樣推廣的政策都會有民怨產生喔那實際上也會將這個店家產生無形的負擔那國外反而也有越來越用越多的情形喔顯見說檢索政策"},{"start":400.649,"end":400.829,"text":"〔廖偉翔〕"},{"start":420.279,"end":448.3,"text":"那部長今天簡報中有提到說112年戰制的裸露垃圾掩埋場共53場那累計84萬噸那至今年的8月為止已經降到49場72萬噸可是你們現在用的是所謂的這個掩埋附土跟分泉打包的兩種方式處理這並不是完全的去化而且是而是將這個裸露垃圾做到暫時處置的基本要求而已那我想要請教部長"},{"start":450.002,"end":470.779,"text":"84萬噸的垃圾何時可以完全去化?是否為民國136年?因為我看到好像有人這樣的說法目前我們設定是3年等於是126年完全去化84萬噸變成是妥善處理完妥善處理就像我剛說的就是那兩種方式對但是我說這並非完全去化那你覺得84萬噸的"},{"start":472.62,"end":472.8,"text":"目前您這個"},{"start":502.5,"end":528.387,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":528.81,"end":558.31,"text":"這個除了現在建置監控之外有沒有辦法在每個垃圾場設置這種移動式的水塔能夠快速撲滅垃圾山的火災有報委員這個高風險的這個掩埋場其實都有這樣的這個措施不過我也跟委員報告其實我到很多國外的垃圾山掩埋場或是垃圾處理設備他們也都常常發生火災因為我們的民眾的回收包含我們的手機亂丟電池亂丟現在這種鋰電池都很容易造成火災這個我們還是要從源頭做起啦"},{"start":559.391,"end":578.992,"text":"對那我意思是說那現在還有更具體的處理的方法嗎目前說真的有時候民眾自己把自己丟到那邊我們去做分類這個成本會非常高我們還是要從民眾的呼籲在進行所以我剛剛意思是說所以你不是每一個垃圾你只是把分類說高風險的對高風險的那沒有不是高風險的呢會不會有可能會發生對"},{"start":580.413,"end":598.701,"text":"我就是基本上有高風險的大概都有消防的這個設備那我們會逐步的有需要的我們就會來進行目前應該是沒有全面的都有裝沒有全面沒有全面對不過我們在這個未來3年會投入12億來處理這件事所以這件事情未來也會去執行好那這部分再拜託部長謝謝"},{"start":600.161,"end":621.538,"text":"最後我還是想要問,所以再重新回到剛剛的問題,因為你剛剛說3年內要解決垃圾山問題,那我還是想要問說,所以依照部長的定義,其實好像就是目前的這兩種方案而已對不對?對對好,那你目前上任半年了,你自己評估有辦法達到這樣子的承諾嗎?可以,因為現在我們已經全面在發報在進行了,應該可以達到3年內可以"},{"start":622.739,"end":638.598,"text":"但是我還是希望部長可以跟長遠來看因為我覺得完全去化才是終點這個只是暫時性處理所以這三年好我想希望至少部長可以再往未來完全去化的方向努力謝謝我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:28:07 - 10:38:46","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155114,"gazette":{"lineno":489,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時28分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長早。大家都知道你以前是氣象專家，對於氣象預報頗有心得。這一次山陀兒颱風的路徑真的很詭異，在臺灣真的走的非常緩慢，我們都在想它到底什麼時候進來，滯留非常久，讓我們緊繃了將近一週。請問部長認為這一次颱風的氣象預報是否有失準的疑慮？"],["彭部長啓明：因為這不是我的工作職責，我上任之後也謹守這個規範，都沒有對外發言。不過我必須說，氣象預報本身就很困難，這次颱風路徑又很詭譎，本來就要用監測取代預報，如果我們回頭看這個數據，我必須說我們的氣象工作人員有做到他該有的職責，但是還有進步的空間。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝部長。面對這種越來越極端的氣候，即便科技再怎麼發展或者累積再怎麼多的經驗，會遇到的狀況還很多，尤其這樣詭異的颱風和詭異的氣候，也是大多數人的共識，所以面對這樣的氣候，部長是不是也認同我們應該要料敵從嚴？"],["彭部長啓明：當然是要從嚴。"],["廖委員偉翔：要從嚴嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是某大公司的前董事長對於颱風假這件事情多有批評，首先罵很多民眾趁著颱風假出去吃喝玩樂、逛百貨公司，根本看不出必要，所謂颱風假根本是地方政府討好選民的政治操作，再來又說放颱風假在他看來是缺乏韌性的表現。部長，你會覺得颱風假是政治性假期，或是民眾缺乏韌性的爛草莓表現嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我曾經參與過很多地方政府颱風假放假的決定，目前我認為政治性是很低、很低的，當然民眾總是希望有多一點放鬆的機會，這個是人情，所以這個制度到底有沒有調整的空間？我個人認為可以有，但是也請委員知道，臺灣社會對於颱風假的看法已經非常民粹了，所以要改不是那麼容易做得到的事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：好吧！你剛剛也說了，颱風假有其必要性，在極端氣候之下，即便放假後無風無雨，大家應該也是要慶幸沒有發生太多的災害，所以我覺得不應該怪罪地方的首長或是民眾。雖然現在大家想放颱風假的意願可能有別的原因，但對於防災應該不會是太過小心，也不能說想放假的民眾就是韌性不足。最後，有關颱風的問題，其實去年中央氣象局改制升格為署，組織法中也把包含氣候變遷的業務納入，我想這部分也是跨領域的，包含環境、農業、交通等等問題。其中我想局跟署最大的差別是，局是執行業務，署還可以擬定政策，去年在法規修訂的時候，也有人提出說，是不是應該要把氣象局納入到環境部底下升格為署，請問部長怎麼看？我想這樣調整會不會名符其實？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，因為這個很敏感，我是氣象出身當環境部部長，這個事情我是覺得可以讓大家來討論啦，但是因為環境部有氣候變遷署，我們比較做長期的，他們是短期，短期可能跟交通部的職掌是比較相近的，不過他們的氣象人員也有一派主張說到環境部是最合適的，我就尊重大家的意見，也請委員……我沒有辦法公開表達我的看法，但是如果從性質來看的話，對環境氣候變遷，從過去的環境資源部的角度來看，其實或許落在環境資源部的角度會更貼切、會更一體，不過因為現在我們是環境部而已，並不是環境資源部。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，好，謝謝部長，謝謝你的意見，我想我大概也了解，總之，也是一樣，有關於氣候變遷等等的，這個跟環境部的業務也都有相關，的確是大家可以好好來討論的。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來就回到我們今天討論垃圾山的問題，在今天環境部提供的報告裡面，可以歸結出垃圾處理量能不足跟新增垃圾太多應該減少，是兩個主要原因，若不從這兩個方面改善，現在的垃圾山就只會越來越大，也有人諷刺這是臺灣的新百岳。所以我也想請教部長，其實也有媒體說最大的問題是減少塑膠使用，也就是塑膠減塑的政策應該要更徹底的執行，又或者說有業者用產業原料的名義，進口國外的垃圾進來再加工，是不是應該要跟經濟部討論一下限制國外的垃圾進口，部長對此怎麼看？"],["彭部長啓明：有關國際垃圾，我們不會讓它進口到臺灣做SRF的，所以這個請委員可以放心，至於源頭減量是最重要的工作，其實環境部有編列一個資源回收基金，大概有80億，就是在做這個事情，所以我們源頭減量的預算比末端處理的還要多很多啦。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我想這裡用產業原料不一定是做SRF，它可能會進來加工成其他的東西，會不會有這樣的狀況？"],["彭部長啓明：我必須跟委員報告，其實某方面任何的東西都不應該讓它變成垃圾，的確，比如我舉例台積電也要進口一些礦石、稀有礦土進來把它變成晶圓，這樣做循環的處理，它某方面在那個地方可能是垃圾，到這個地方變黃金，所以其實這個部分民眾關心是不是有國際垃圾，我們會努力來監控，也希望很多民眾要是有疑慮的話，都歡迎告訴我們有沒有這種進口垃圾的問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，那可不可以請部長之後把相關的資料和報告，在一個月或兩個月內交給本席？"],["彭部長啓明：沒問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：那兩個月好了。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：減塑政策從源頭管理垃圾的產生，部長，有沒有發現其實每次這樣推廣的政策都會有民怨產生？實際上也會讓店家產生無形的負擔，國外反而也有越用越多的情形，顯見不是減塑政策不好或是不應該做，而是有沒有更好或更便利的方式。至於進口廢塑料的部分也要有所限制，畢竟經濟效益有限，但是對我們臺灣的環境負擔是滿大的。剛剛說的這個部分要麻煩您盤點一下，到時候再提供給我。","部長今天的簡報中也有提到，112年暫置的裸露垃圾掩埋場共53場，累計84萬噸，至今年的8月為止已經降到49場、72萬噸，可是你們現在用的是所謂的掩埋覆土跟篩分打包兩種方式處理，並不是完全的去化，而是將裸露的垃圾做到暫時處置的基本要求而已。我想要請教部長，84萬噸的垃圾何時可以完全去化？是否為民國136年？因為我看到好像有這樣的說法。"],["彭部長啓明：目前我們設定是3年，等於是116年。"],["廖委員偉翔：完全去化？"],["彭部長啓明：84萬噸變成妥善處理完。"],["廖委員偉翔：妥善處理，就是我剛剛說的那兩種方式嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：對、對。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是這並非完全去化，你覺得84萬噸的垃圾要怎麼樣可以完全去化？何時可以完全去化？"],["彭部長啓明：這個就要透過別的方式，因為很多的縣市政府表達，其實它也可以是一種資源的重新利用……"],["廖委員偉翔：當然，就是一個循環經濟嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：對、對。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是怎麼樣可以把這84萬噸都放到這個循環裡面？"],["彭部長啓明：這個要花一點時間，我的簡報在最後面特別提到一個新的想法，我們應該要有一個好的資源循環園區，能夠全循環的來做這個事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，這個部分等一下，因為目前您這個構想有點像是政策方向，很多具體規劃和細節應該都沒有。"],["彭部長啓明：還沒有，我們有這個想法，要規劃。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，目前是想法而已嘛！對不對？所以還有很多具體……"],["彭部長啓明：對，要爭取預算。"],["廖委員偉翔：未來可能要針對細節來問一下部長。我另外想要問，目前裸露的垃圾山還有很大的問題就是火災嘛！我上網隨便查了一下，某一個垃圾掩埋場過去5年就發生71次火災，這個除了現在建置監控之外，有沒有辦法在每個垃圾場設置移動式的水塔，能夠快速撲滅垃圾山的火災？"],["彭部長啓明：有，報告委員，高風險的掩埋場其實都有這樣的措施，不過我也跟委員報告，其實很多國外的垃圾山、掩埋場或是垃圾處理設備，他們也都常常發生火災。我們民眾回收，包含我們的手機亂丟、電池亂丟，現在這種鋰電池都很容易造成火災，這個我們還是要從源頭做起。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，我的意思是說現在還有更具體的處理的方法嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：目前說真的，有時候民眾是自己丟到那邊，我們去做分類，這個成本會非常高，我們還是要對民眾再進行呼籲。"],["廖委員偉翔：我剛剛的意思是說，所以不是每一個垃圾山，只是針對分類是高風險的？"],["彭部長啓明：對，高風險的。"],["廖委員偉翔：那不是高風險的呢？會不會有可能發生？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上高風險的大概都有消防的設備，我們會逐步針對有需要的，我們就會來進行，目前應該沒有全面都裝。"],["廖委員偉翔：沒有全面？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有全面，對。"],["顏署長旭明：不過我們在未來3年會投入12億來處理這件事。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以這件事情未來也會去執行？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，這部分再拜託部長。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：最後我還是想要問，所以再重新回到剛剛的問題，因為你剛剛說3年內要解決垃圾山問題，所以依照部長的定義，其實好像就是目前的這兩種方案而已，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，你目前上任半年了，你自己評估有辦法達到這樣子的承諾嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：可以，因為現在我們已經全面在發包進行了，應該可以達得到，3年內可以達到。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，但是我還是希望部長可以更長遠來看，因為我覺得完全去化才是終點，這個只是暫時性處理，所以這3年，我希望部長可以再往未來完全去化的方向努力，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席（王委員育敏代）：好，我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。","接下來我們請蘇清泉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","王正旭","楊曜","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","羅智強","黃秀芳","劉建國","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","邱若華","何欣純","林淑芬","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00004"}}}