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602.138, \"end\": 602.258, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 602.258, \"end\": 602.558, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.558, \"end\": 602.678, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.678, \"end\": 602.698, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 602.698, \"end\": 602.938, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 602.938, \"end\": 602.958, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,824\n主席有請速發部部長黃部長委員好部長請問現在這個我現在問的是時事題請問一下在過去10天之內政交所、桃園機場、聯電、緯創、台塑都被駭客所攻擊這件事您知道嗎知道請問一下這些的攻擊是從哪裡來的\n\n2\n00:00:31,044 --> 00:00:31,984\n請問為什麼會是俄國的駭客團體?\n\n3\n00:00:55,722 --> 00:01:12,219\n請問因為這件事情我覺得非常嚴重就是說理論上來講雖然說道高一尺魔高一丈這句話我想訴發部還有所有打詐的打詐國家隊最有感觸說真的我聽到國家隊三個字就有點痘痘啊因為每次國家隊表示這邊做得很糟糕所以才需要國家隊\n\n4\n00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:42,680\n但是相對來講如果說現在我們是不是要一個防害國家隊因為最尷尬的地方是俄國、北韓這都是全世界駭客最強的國家那以前他們也不會針對我們請問為什麼現在會開始針對我們呢而且對不起讓我先講完一個攻擊出來對駭客來講每一次的攻擊都必須要有所回應都要有所回報不然的話對他們來講CP值不夠高駭客的其性他們是有事沒事不會主動去挑釁的\n\n5\n00:01:43,160 --> 00:02:05,136\n因為每一次他們的攻擊他們的殭屍網絡就被破壞每一次他們的攻擊他們的IP就會暴露每一次他們的攻擊一定要有效有目的的那這是很快的而我自己以前在以前我自己也在IT上面知道過一些事情我有在IT的經驗那我也知道說我們的防護如果說他們真的要攻擊的話我們很難防得住\n\n6\n00:02:05,976 --> 00:02:32,522\n以一個企業體來講先不要講數法補那我想請問一下在目前來講請問為什麼俄國的駭客要做這種無謂的攻擊我可以防下來的攻擊報告委員那個我們有調查過其實俄國這次駭客攻擊不是只有針對台灣我們看到對美國對河南對一些國家都有攻擊所以這個攻擊應該是我們知道他對美國有政治因素我們知道對河南可能也有北約的政治因素那對台灣呢有沒有政治因素呢\n\n7\n00:02:32,902 --> 00:02:49,068\n還是因為是單純覺得駭客覺得很好玩所以俄國的駭客跑來攻擊臺灣是嗎那個報告委員那個臺灣就是一個攻擊的熱點就過去幾年因為臺灣就是那個大家也知道我們的攻擊數目可能是全球最高的所以幾乎所有的駭客有新的武器大家都拿臺灣當試煉場\n\n8\n00:02:51,849 --> 00:03:14,737\n請問以速發部．因為速發部之前沒有速發部．如果之前沒有一個部來去做數位發展的話．我們對資安的要求．在立法院我們對資安的要求．不會這麼的嚴格．但是現在包括桃園機場．包括政交所．包括聯電．包括偽創．包括台塑都underattack．那請問一下我們的速發部．針對資安這件事情來講．請問你們當這個攻擊來的時候．你們做了些什麼\n\n9\n00:03:18,658 --> 00:03:40,568\n我們當然是說我們有治安署大概就有一些治安通報嘛好不好治安就是我們治安的防護就剛剛講有特別講說我們有所謂通報系統情治通報系統就SERT這樣一個機制我們有事前、事中、事後事前就是集合我們確定治安大家都有達到一個水準那事中就是在攻擊的時候我們所謂的各式各樣通報像SOC或是像是SERT\n\n10\n00:03:40,908 --> 00:03:58,416\n他們會通報那我會跟所有的單位通報說我們看到新的攻擊請大家開始準備那事後我們就分析這攻擊的太陽再去看怎麼樣去加強防護好那未來如果針對俄國再一次的攻擊你們會做些什麼事目前我們看到俄國這攻擊說DDoS攻擊裡面其實並沒有造成造成嚴重的\n\n11\n00:03:59,316 --> 00:04:28,528\n這才是本席覺得對不起我不是說要看人希望人家受傷我不是要我們任何我們國家的企業有任何的損傷或者我們的所有的那個我們不管公司也要還是公部門也要的功能被癱瘓但是如果以我對泰克的瞭解他們這樣子很有第一個就是他們有更實際是不是有更深一層的含義在裡面是不是已經放了其他的其他的不同的病毒在裡面之類的第二個就是他們有表示他們要立威請問為什麼台灣要拿來被他們立威呢\n\n12\n00:04:28,968 --> 00:04:31,269\n請具體一點因為我們這個具體一點未來如果還有一樣的攻擊10月10號快到了未來如果還有一樣的攻擊的時候請問\n\n13\n00:04:56,619 --> 00:05:25,243\n速發部該怎麼樣幫助我們這些可能會被攻擊的單位我們已經提升治安的警戒所以目前就是已經全動員就是在目前那個就是我們已經提升這個警戒就是我們會加強這個monitor就是監控然後防護所以但是我跟委員講就是說我們要民間機構來配合有些CI來配合我們有一個法正在立法院送立法院就是治安\n\n14\n00:05:25,903 --> 00:05:42,106\n謝謝部長不好意思我時間有限那我們現在回到打詐上面因為這時事題很重要這個都是不管是打詐也好都是有關治安的一部分嘛那我想請問一下說我剛剛看到這份打詐的專題報告講說我們把20億還給了受害人那請問部長知道我們今年\n\n15\n00:05:43,367 --> 00:06:05,480\n總共被騙的金額是多少億嗎?那個報告委員今年的那個數目是蠻多請問今年多少億?今年你不能只跟我們講說老實講你們這三份報告給國人看的時候他們會覺得說噢真的有那麼你真的為什麼我們還是覺得身邊的詐騙越來越多為什麼我是覺得說我們打詐打詐國家都打不到為什麼越打越詐\n\n16\n00:06:06,710 --> 00:06:28,366\n這才是為什麼我要問因為你這邊很明顯說跟我講說以返還受害人的所所所所所所損害金額高達20億但是總共配了多少呢我在資料查到在資料上面查到光7月份我們受害就110億然後剛剛9月5號那一天9月4號還是9月5號9月4號那一天我們就差不多4億1000多萬\n\n17\n00:06:33,049 --> 00:06:51,943\n一天就4億1000多萬那你們現在很高興跟我們講我們還了20億給什麼受害人老實講這樣會讓我們民眾覺得幸福嗎數字會說話數字不會騙人那我現在只想知道說到目前今天10月7號為止我們台灣到底有我們台灣到底已知的受詐騙的金額是多少\n\n18\n00:06:53,055 --> 00:07:09,413\n到今天為止,10月4號好了對,這個最後統計在警政署那邊,不過我跟我委員大概多少,總共有個BallTalkNumber應該不止一百,因為7月份就110億光7月份一整個月就110億,那整年大概多少\n\n19\n00:07:11,687 --> 00:07:34,599\n我必須要講就是說我們現在很多黑數出現是因為我們鼓勵就是說我們的確有加強宣導以後很多因為被詐騙的人不是今天才被詐騙他可能是半年前一年前被詐騙不好意思我順便加一句為什麼我想知道因為我們一直說打詐國家打詐國家隊打詐國家隊從打詐國家隊出來的時候對民眾的印象來講至少我所感覺到印象來講越打越詐\n\n20\n00:07:35,279 --> 00:07:55,462\n越打詐騙越猖狂甚至說我們越來越多年輕人跑去當詐騙集團他們不想當然我們知道這有社會因素有整個經濟的因素存在但是我們似乎我們如果在制度面我們不把握機會把他這個風氣把他擋下來的話那我們其實是沒我們這樣做說再怎麼樣花這麼多經費再怎麼樣做大內宣都不會有用的\n\n21\n00:07:55,822 --> 00:08:19,971\n甚至這樣講資訊在未來是最重要的我想數位發展部部長應該最知道資訊現在好不好比現今還重要而如果以資訊來講我們的平台的管制其實是必須要再加強的因為平台的管制來講我剛剛看了你們整個數位發展部的打詐成效跟防制我看完之後覺得我們是不是把我們的整個系統的設置跟我們法規的設置比較像美國\n\n22\n00:08:20,911 --> 00:08:35,504\n也就是說我們什麼都選美國的時候就讓他的使用者不停的去做他們的事情我們覺得平台都是無辜的平台我們不能平台不負責使用者的行為是不是我們現在在這個歐盟針對使用者\n\n23\n00:08:36,445 --> 00:09:01,670\n如果他們已經察覺到有所謂的違法甚至有害的行為他們是會予以是予以罰款的我們有這個機制嗎?打詐專法會予以根本有這樣的罰款的機制沒錯而且那我想請問一下如果他們是不是現在還是要確定是打詐的廣告他們才會檢舉如果不是如果是只是說OK我今天如果用李昆哲、李賢昭偉的照片上面隨便貼了一個\n\n24\n00:09:03,251 --> 00:09:16,248\n那我送出去之後,如果沒有人說這是詐騙,是不是就會過關?我們會有幾個系統,一個就是我們會,我們自己的系統會去掃描,會看到這樣的話,我們會把他要求向臉書要求他下架,我們有這樣的機制,我們從9月,從8月20...\n\n25\n00:09:20,473 --> 00:09:30,719\n我記得以前跟我以前有講過24小時之內要下架24小時之內會演出會配合下架那其他的頻道呢?當然也是一樣所有的頻道所有Meta都是一樣嗎?\n\n26\n00:09:30,719 --> 00:09:44,888\nIG都是一樣嗎?對TikTok都一樣我們現在就是要求24小時下架TikTok你們可以嗎?Alphabet你們可以管得到嗎?TikTok一樣就是它是我們四大就是我們有六個平台是我們納管這六個平台都要配合不然它就會被罰款\n\n27\n00:09:45,988 --> 00:10:00,878\n為什麼我會把這件事特技拿出來講這麼激動因為治安也好打詐也好跟我們息息相關越來越接近了而老實講數位發展部既然是個部我們對它就有更高的期待更更高的要求而且這是符合國人期待不然就當作就不要數位發展部\n\n28\n00:10:01,878 --> 00:10:02,958\n我們納管的數位經濟產業我們會好好的監督\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4000\t7824\t主席有請速發部部長黃部長委員好部長請問現在這個我現在問的是時事題請問一下在過去10天之內政交所、桃園機場、聯電、緯創、台塑都被駭客所攻擊這件事您知道嗎知道請問一下這些的攻擊是從哪裡來的\n31044\t31984\t請問為什麼會是俄國的駭客團體?\n55722\t72219\t請問因為這件事情我覺得非常嚴重就是說理論上來講雖然說道高一尺魔高一丈這句話我想訴發部還有所有打詐的打詐國家隊最有感觸說真的我聽到國家隊三個字就有點痘痘啊因為每次國家隊表示這邊做得很糟糕所以才需要國家隊\n73200\t102680\t但是相對來講如果說現在我們是不是要一個防害國家隊因為最尷尬的地方是俄國、北韓這都是全世界駭客最強的國家那以前他們也不會針對我們請問為什麼現在會開始針對我們呢而且對不起讓我先講完一個攻擊出來對駭客來講每一次的攻擊都必須要有所回應都要有所回報不然的話對他們來講CP值不夠高駭客的其性他們是有事沒事不會主動去挑釁的\n103160\t125136\t因為每一次他們的攻擊他們的殭屍網絡就被破壞每一次他們的攻擊他們的IP就會暴露每一次他們的攻擊一定要有效有目的的那這是很快的而我自己以前在以前我自己也在IT上面知道過一些事情我有在IT的經驗那我也知道說我們的防護如果說他們真的要攻擊的話我們很難防得住\n125976\t152522\t以一個企業體來講先不要講數法補那我想請問一下在目前來講請問為什麼俄國的駭客要做這種無謂的攻擊我可以防下來的攻擊報告委員那個我們有調查過其實俄國這次駭客攻擊不是只有針對台灣我們看到對美國對河南對一些國家都有攻擊所以這個攻擊應該是我們知道他對美國有政治因素我們知道對河南可能也有北約的政治因素那對台灣呢有沒有政治因素呢\n152902\t169068\t還是因為是單純覺得駭客覺得很好玩所以俄國的駭客跑來攻擊臺灣是嗎那個報告委員那個臺灣就是一個攻擊的熱點就過去幾年因為臺灣就是那個大家也知道我們的攻擊數目可能是全球最高的所以幾乎所有的駭客有新的武器大家都拿臺灣當試煉場\n171849\t194737\t請問以速發部．因為速發部之前沒有速發部．如果之前沒有一個部來去做數位發展的話．我們對資安的要求．在立法院我們對資安的要求．不會這麼的嚴格．但是現在包括桃園機場．包括政交所．包括聯電．包括偽創．包括台塑都under attack．那請問一下我們的速發部．針對資安這件事情來講．請問你們當這個攻擊來的時候．你們做了些什麼\n198658\t220568\t我們當然是說我們有治安署大概就有一些治安通報嘛好不好治安就是我們治安的防護就剛剛講有特別講說我們有所謂通報系統情治通報系統就SERT這樣一個機制我們有事前、事中、事後事前就是集合我們確定治安大家都有達到一個水準那事中就是在攻擊的時候我們所謂的各式各樣通報像SOC或是像是SERT\n220908\t238416\t他們會通報那我會跟所有的單位通報說我們看到新的攻擊請大家開始準備那事後我們就分析這攻擊的太陽再去看怎麼樣去加強防護好那未來如果針對俄國再一次的攻擊你們會做些什麼事目前我們看到俄國這攻擊說DDoS攻擊裡面其實並沒有造成造成嚴重的\n239316\t268528\t這才是本席覺得對不起我不是說要看人希望人家受傷我不是要我們任何我們國家的企業有任何的損傷或者我們的所有的那個我們不管公司也要還是公部門也要的功能被癱瘓但是如果以我對泰克的瞭解他們這樣子很有第一個就是他們有更實際是不是有更深一層的含義在裡面是不是已經放了其他的其他的不同的病毒在裡面之類的第二個就是他們有表示他們要立威請問為什麼台灣要拿來被他們立威呢\n268968\t271269\t請具體一點因為我們這個具體一點未來如果還有一樣的攻擊10月10號快到了未來如果還有一樣的攻擊的時候請問\n296619\t325243\t速發部該怎麼樣幫助我們這些可能會被攻擊的單位我們已經提升治安的警戒所以目前就是已經全動員就是在目前那個就是我們已經提升這個警戒就是我們會加強這個monitor就是監控然後防護所以但是我跟委員講就是說我們要民間機構來配合有些CI來配合我們有一個法正在立法院送立法院就是治安\n325903\t342106\t謝謝部長不好意思我時間有限那我們現在回到打詐上面因為這時事題很重要這個都是不管是打詐也好都是有關治安的一部分嘛那我想請問一下說我剛剛看到這份打詐的專題報告講說我們把20億還給了受害人那請問部長知道我們今年\n343367\t365480\t總共被騙的金額是多少億嗎?那個報告委員今年的那個數目是蠻多請問今年多少億?今年你不能只跟我們講說老實講你們這三份報告給國人看的時候他們會覺得說噢真的有那麼你真的為什麼我們還是覺得身邊的詐騙越來越多為什麼我是覺得說我們打詐打詐國家都打不到為什麼越打越詐\n366710\t388366\t這才是為什麼我要問因為你這邊很明顯說跟我講說以返還受害人的所所所所所所損害金額高達20億但是總共配了多少呢我在資料查到在資料上面查到光7月份我們受害就110億然後剛剛9月5號那一天9月4號還是9月5號9月4號那一天我們就差不多4億1000多萬\n393049\t411943\t一天就4億1000多萬那你們現在很高興跟我們講我們還了20億給什麼受害人老實講這樣會讓我們民眾覺得幸福嗎數字會說話數字不會騙人那我現在只想知道說到目前今天10月7號為止我們台灣到底有我們台灣到底已知的受詐騙的金額是多少\n413055\t429413\t到今天為止,10月4號好了對,這個最後統計在警政署那邊,不過我跟我委員大概多少,總共有個Ball Talk Number應該不止一百,因為7月份就110億光7月份一整個月就110億,那整年大概多少\n431687\t454599\t我必須要講就是說我們現在很多黑數出現是因為我們鼓勵就是說我們的確有加強宣導以後很多因為被詐騙的人不是今天才被詐騙他可能是半年前一年前被詐騙不好意思我順便加一句為什麼我想知道因為我們一直說打詐國家打詐國家隊打詐國家隊從打詐國家隊出來的時候對民眾的印象來講至少我所感覺到印象來講越打越詐\n455279\t475462\t越打詐騙越猖狂甚至說我們越來越多年輕人跑去當詐騙集團他們不想當然我們知道這有社會因素有整個經濟的因素存在但是我們似乎我們如果在制度面我們不把握機會把他這個風氣把他擋下來的話那我們其實是沒我們這樣做說再怎麼樣花這麼多經費再怎麼樣做大內宣都不會有用的\n475822\t499971\t甚至這樣講 資訊在未來是最重要的我想數位發展部部長應該最知道資訊現在好不好比現今還重要而如果以資訊來講我們的平台的管制其實是必須要再加強的因為平台的管制來講我剛剛看了你們整個數位發展部的打詐成效跟防制我看完之後覺得我們是不是把我們的整個系統的設置跟我們法規的設置比較像美國\n500911\t515504\t也就是說我們什麼都選美國的時候就讓他的使用者不停的去做他們的事情我們覺得平台都是無辜的平台我們不能平台不負責使用者的行為是不是我們現在在這個歐盟針對使用者\n516445\t541670\t如果他們已經察覺到有所謂的違法甚至有害的行為他們是會予以是予以罰款的我們有這個機制嗎?打詐專法會予以根本有這樣的罰款的機制沒錯而且那我想請問一下如果他們是不是現在還是要確定是打詐的廣告他們才會檢舉如果不是如果是只是說OK我今天如果用李昆哲、李賢昭偉的照片上面隨便貼了一個\n543251\t556248\t那我送出去之後,如果沒有人說這是詐騙,是不是就會過關?我們會有幾個系統,一個就是我們會,我們自己的系統會去掃描,會看到這樣的話,我們會把他要求向臉書要求他下架,我們有這樣的機制,我們從9月,從8月20...\n560473\t570719\t我記得以前跟我以前有講過24小時之內要下架24小時之內會演出會配合下架那其他的頻道呢?當然也是一樣所有的頻道所有Meta都是一樣嗎?\n570719\t584888\tIG都是一樣嗎?對TikTok都一樣我們現在就是要求24小時下架TikTok你們可以嗎?Alphabet你們可以管得到嗎?TikTok一樣就是它是我們四大就是我們有六個平台是我們納管這六個平台都要配合不然它就會被罰款\n585988\t600878\t為什麼我會把這件事特技拿出來講這麼激動因為治安也好打詐也好跟我們息息相關越來越接近了而老實講數位發展部既然是個部我們對它就有更高的期待更更高的要求而且這是符合國人期待不然就當作就不要數位發展部\n601878\t602958\t我們納管的數位經濟產業我們會好好的監督\n","txt":"主席有請速發部部長黃部長委員好部長請問現在這個我現在問的是時事題請問一下在過去10天之內政交所、桃園機場、聯電、緯創、台塑都被駭客所攻擊這件事您知道嗎知道請問一下這些的攻擊是從哪裡來的\n請問為什麼會是俄國的駭客團體?\n請問因為這件事情我覺得非常嚴重就是說理論上來講雖然說道高一尺魔高一丈這句話我想訴發部還有所有打詐的打詐國家隊最有感觸說真的我聽到國家隊三個字就有點痘痘啊因為每次國家隊表示這邊做得很糟糕所以才需要國家隊\n但是相對來講如果說現在我們是不是要一個防害國家隊因為最尷尬的地方是俄國、北韓這都是全世界駭客最強的國家那以前他們也不會針對我們請問為什麼現在會開始針對我們呢而且對不起讓我先講完一個攻擊出來對駭客來講每一次的攻擊都必須要有所回應都要有所回報不然的話對他們來講CP值不夠高駭客的其性他們是有事沒事不會主動去挑釁的\n因為每一次他們的攻擊他們的殭屍網絡就被破壞每一次他們的攻擊他們的IP就會暴露每一次他們的攻擊一定要有效有目的的那這是很快的而我自己以前在以前我自己也在IT上面知道過一些事情我有在IT的經驗那我也知道說我們的防護如果說他們真的要攻擊的話我們很難防得住\n以一個企業體來講先不要講數法補那我想請問一下在目前來講請問為什麼俄國的駭客要做這種無謂的攻擊我可以防下來的攻擊報告委員那個我們有調查過其實俄國這次駭客攻擊不是只有針對台灣我們看到對美國對河南對一些國家都有攻擊所以這個攻擊應該是我們知道他對美國有政治因素我們知道對河南可能也有北約的政治因素那對台灣呢有沒有政治因素呢\n還是因為是單純覺得駭客覺得很好玩所以俄國的駭客跑來攻擊臺灣是嗎那個報告委員那個臺灣就是一個攻擊的熱點就過去幾年因為臺灣就是那個大家也知道我們的攻擊數目可能是全球最高的所以幾乎所有的駭客有新的武器大家都拿臺灣當試煉場\n請問以速發部．因為速發部之前沒有速發部．如果之前沒有一個部來去做數位發展的話．我們對資安的要求．在立法院我們對資安的要求．不會這麼的嚴格．但是現在包括桃園機場．包括政交所．包括聯電．包括偽創．包括台塑都under attack．那請問一下我們的速發部．針對資安這件事情來講．請問你們當這個攻擊來的時候．你們做了些什麼\n我們當然是說我們有治安署大概就有一些治安通報嘛好不好治安就是我們治安的防護就剛剛講有特別講說我們有所謂通報系統情治通報系統就SERT這樣一個機制我們有事前、事中、事後事前就是集合我們確定治安大家都有達到一個水準那事中就是在攻擊的時候我們所謂的各式各樣通報像SOC或是像是SERT\n他們會通報那我會跟所有的單位通報說我們看到新的攻擊請大家開始準備那事後我們就分析這攻擊的太陽再去看怎麼樣去加強防護好那未來如果針對俄國再一次的攻擊你們會做些什麼事目前我們看到俄國這攻擊說DDoS攻擊裡面其實並沒有造成造成嚴重的\n這才是本席覺得對不起我不是說要看人希望人家受傷我不是要我們任何我們國家的企業有任何的損傷或者我們的所有的那個我們不管公司也要還是公部門也要的功能被癱瘓但是如果以我對泰克的瞭解他們這樣子很有第一個就是他們有更實際是不是有更深一層的含義在裡面是不是已經放了其他的其他的不同的病毒在裡面之類的第二個就是他們有表示他們要立威請問為什麼台灣要拿來被他們立威呢\n請具體一點因為我們這個具體一點未來如果還有一樣的攻擊10月10號快到了未來如果還有一樣的攻擊的時候請問\n速發部該怎麼樣幫助我們這些可能會被攻擊的單位我們已經提升治安的警戒所以目前就是已經全動員就是在目前那個就是我們已經提升這個警戒就是我們會加強這個monitor就是監控然後防護所以但是我跟委員講就是說我們要民間機構來配合有些CI來配合我們有一個法正在立法院送立法院就是治安\n謝謝部長不好意思我時間有限那我們現在回到打詐上面因為這時事題很重要這個都是不管是打詐也好都是有關治安的一部分嘛那我想請問一下說我剛剛看到這份打詐的專題報告講說我們把20億還給了受害人那請問部長知道我們今年\n總共被騙的金額是多少億嗎?那個報告委員今年的那個數目是蠻多請問今年多少億?今年你不能只跟我們講說老實講你們這三份報告給國人看的時候他們會覺得說噢真的有那麼你真的為什麼我們還是覺得身邊的詐騙越來越多為什麼我是覺得說我們打詐打詐國家都打不到為什麼越打越詐\n這才是為什麼我要問因為你這邊很明顯說跟我講說以返還受害人的所所所所所所損害金額高達20億但是總共配了多少呢我在資料查到在資料上面查到光7月份我們受害就110億然後剛剛9月5號那一天9月4號還是9月5號9月4號那一天我們就差不多4億1000多萬\n一天就4億1000多萬那你們現在很高興跟我們講我們還了20億給什麼受害人老實講這樣會讓我們民眾覺得幸福嗎數字會說話數字不會騙人那我現在只想知道說到目前今天10月7號為止我們台灣到底有我們台灣到底已知的受詐騙的金額是多少\n到今天為止,10月4號好了對,這個最後統計在警政署那邊,不過我跟我委員大概多少,總共有個Ball Talk Number應該不止一百,因為7月份就110億光7月份一整個月就110億,那整年大概多少\n我必須要講就是說我們現在很多黑數出現是因為我們鼓勵就是說我們的確有加強宣導以後很多因為被詐騙的人不是今天才被詐騙他可能是半年前一年前被詐騙不好意思我順便加一句為什麼我想知道因為我們一直說打詐國家打詐國家隊打詐國家隊從打詐國家隊出來的時候對民眾的印象來講至少我所感覺到印象來講越打越詐\n越打詐騙越猖狂甚至說我們越來越多年輕人跑去當詐騙集團他們不想當然我們知道這有社會因素有整個經濟的因素存在但是我們似乎我們如果在制度面我們不把握機會把他這個風氣把他擋下來的話那我們其實是沒我們這樣做說再怎麼樣花這麼多經費再怎麼樣做大內宣都不會有用的\n甚至這樣講 資訊在未來是最重要的我想數位發展部部長應該最知道資訊現在好不好比現今還重要而如果以資訊來講我們的平台的管制其實是必須要再加強的因為平台的管制來講我剛剛看了你們整個數位發展部的打詐成效跟防制我看完之後覺得我們是不是把我們的整個系統的設置跟我們法規的設置比較像美國\n也就是說我們什麼都選美國的時候就讓他的使用者不停的去做他們的事情我們覺得平台都是無辜的平台我們不能平台不負責使用者的行為是不是我們現在在這個歐盟針對使用者\n如果他們已經察覺到有所謂的違法甚至有害的行為他們是會予以是予以罰款的我們有這個機制嗎?打詐專法會予以根本有這樣的罰款的機制沒錯而且那我想請問一下如果他們是不是現在還是要確定是打詐的廣告他們才會檢舉如果不是如果是只是說OK我今天如果用李昆哲、李賢昭偉的照片上面隨便貼了一個\n那我送出去之後,如果沒有人說這是詐騙,是不是就會過關?我們會有幾個系統,一個就是我們會,我們自己的系統會去掃描,會看到這樣的話,我們會把他要求向臉書要求他下架,我們有這樣的機制,我們從9月,從8月20...\n我記得以前跟我以前有講過24小時之內要下架24小時之內會演出會配合下架那其他的頻道呢?當然也是一樣所有的頻道所有Meta都是一樣嗎?\nIG都是一樣嗎?對TikTok都一樣我們現在就是要求24小時下架TikTok你們可以嗎?Alphabet你們可以管得到嗎?TikTok一樣就是它是我們四大就是我們有六個平台是我們納管這六個平台都要配合不然它就會被罰款\n為什麼我會把這件事特技拿出來講這麼激動因為治安也好打詐也好跟我們息息相關越來越接近了而老實講數位發展部既然是個部我們對它就有更高的期待更更高的要求而且這是符合國人期待不然就當作就不要數位發展部\n我們納管的數位經濟產業我們會好好的監督\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.000 --> 00:07.824\n主席有請速發部部長黃部長委員好部長請問現在這個我現在問的是時事題請問一下在過去10天之內政交所、桃園機場、聯電、緯創、台塑都被駭客所攻擊這件事您知道嗎知道請問一下這些的攻擊是從哪裡來的\n\n00:31.044 --> 00:31.984\n請問為什麼會是俄國的駭客團體?\n\n00:55.722 --> 01:12.219\n請問因為這件事情我覺得非常嚴重就是說理論上來講雖然說道高一尺魔高一丈這句話我想訴發部還有所有打詐的打詐國家隊最有感觸說真的我聽到國家隊三個字就有點痘痘啊因為每次國家隊表示這邊做得很糟糕所以才需要國家隊\n\n01:13.200 --> 01:42.680\n但是相對來講如果說現在我們是不是要一個防害國家隊因為最尷尬的地方是俄國、北韓這都是全世界駭客最強的國家那以前他們也不會針對我們請問為什麼現在會開始針對我們呢而且對不起讓我先講完一個攻擊出來對駭客來講每一次的攻擊都必須要有所回應都要有所回報不然的話對他們來講CP值不夠高駭客的其性他們是有事沒事不會主動去挑釁的\n\n01:43.160 --> 02:05.136\n因為每一次他們的攻擊他們的殭屍網絡就被破壞每一次他們的攻擊他們的IP就會暴露每一次他們的攻擊一定要有效有目的的那這是很快的而我自己以前在以前我自己也在IT上面知道過一些事情我有在IT的經驗那我也知道說我們的防護如果說他們真的要攻擊的話我們很難防得住\n\n02:05.976 --> 02:32.522\n以一個企業體來講先不要講數法補那我想請問一下在目前來講請問為什麼俄國的駭客要做這種無謂的攻擊我可以防下來的攻擊報告委員那個我們有調查過其實俄國這次駭客攻擊不是只有針對台灣我們看到對美國對河南對一些國家都有攻擊所以這個攻擊應該是我們知道他對美國有政治因素我們知道對河南可能也有北約的政治因素那對台灣呢有沒有政治因素呢\n\n02:32.902 --> 02:49.068\n還是因為是單純覺得駭客覺得很好玩所以俄國的駭客跑來攻擊臺灣是嗎那個報告委員那個臺灣就是一個攻擊的熱點就過去幾年因為臺灣就是那個大家也知道我們的攻擊數目可能是全球最高的所以幾乎所有的駭客有新的武器大家都拿臺灣當試煉場\n\n02:51.849 --> 03:14.737\n請問以速發部．因為速發部之前沒有速發部．如果之前沒有一個部來去做數位發展的話．我們對資安的要求．在立法院我們對資安的要求．不會這麼的嚴格．但是現在包括桃園機場．包括政交所．包括聯電．包括偽創．包括台塑都underattack．那請問一下我們的速發部．針對資安這件事情來講．請問你們當這個攻擊來的時候．你們做了些什麼\n\n03:18.658 --> 03:40.568\n我們當然是說我們有治安署大概就有一些治安通報嘛好不好治安就是我們治安的防護就剛剛講有特別講說我們有所謂通報系統情治通報系統就SERT這樣一個機制我們有事前、事中、事後事前就是集合我們確定治安大家都有達到一個水準那事中就是在攻擊的時候我們所謂的各式各樣通報像SOC或是像是SERT\n\n03:40.908 --> 03:58.416\n他們會通報那我會跟所有的單位通報說我們看到新的攻擊請大家開始準備那事後我們就分析這攻擊的太陽再去看怎麼樣去加強防護好那未來如果針對俄國再一次的攻擊你們會做些什麼事目前我們看到俄國這攻擊說DDoS攻擊裡面其實並沒有造成造成嚴重的\n\n03:59.316 --> 04:28.528\n這才是本席覺得對不起我不是說要看人希望人家受傷我不是要我們任何我們國家的企業有任何的損傷或者我們的所有的那個我們不管公司也要還是公部門也要的功能被癱瘓但是如果以我對泰克的瞭解他們這樣子很有第一個就是他們有更實際是不是有更深一層的含義在裡面是不是已經放了其他的其他的不同的病毒在裡面之類的第二個就是他們有表示他們要立威請問為什麼台灣要拿來被他們立威呢\n\n04:28.968 --> 04:31.269\n請具體一點因為我們這個具體一點未來如果還有一樣的攻擊10月10號快到了未來如果還有一樣的攻擊的時候請問\n\n04:56.619 --> 05:25.243\n速發部該怎麼樣幫助我們這些可能會被攻擊的單位我們已經提升治安的警戒所以目前就是已經全動員就是在目前那個就是我們已經提升這個警戒就是我們會加強這個monitor就是監控然後防護所以但是我跟委員講就是說我們要民間機構來配合有些CI來配合我們有一個法正在立法院送立法院就是治安\n\n05:25.903 --> 05:42.106\n謝謝部長不好意思我時間有限那我們現在回到打詐上面因為這時事題很重要這個都是不管是打詐也好都是有關治安的一部分嘛那我想請問一下說我剛剛看到這份打詐的專題報告講說我們把20億還給了受害人那請問部長知道我們今年\n\n05:43.367 --> 06:05.480\n總共被騙的金額是多少億嗎?那個報告委員今年的那個數目是蠻多請問今年多少億?今年你不能只跟我們講說老實講你們這三份報告給國人看的時候他們會覺得說噢真的有那麼你真的為什麼我們還是覺得身邊的詐騙越來越多為什麼我是覺得說我們打詐打詐國家都打不到為什麼越打越詐\n\n06:06.710 --> 06:28.366\n這才是為什麼我要問因為你這邊很明顯說跟我講說以返還受害人的所所所所所所損害金額高達20億但是總共配了多少呢我在資料查到在資料上面查到光7月份我們受害就110億然後剛剛9月5號那一天9月4號還是9月5號9月4號那一天我們就差不多4億1000多萬\n\n06:33.049 --> 06:51.943\n一天就4億1000多萬那你們現在很高興跟我們講我們還了20億給什麼受害人老實講這樣會讓我們民眾覺得幸福嗎數字會說話數字不會騙人那我現在只想知道說到目前今天10月7號為止我們台灣到底有我們台灣到底已知的受詐騙的金額是多少\n\n06:53.055 --> 07:09.413\n到今天為止,10月4號好了對,這個最後統計在警政署那邊,不過我跟我委員大概多少,總共有個BallTalkNumber應該不止一百,因為7月份就110億光7月份一整個月就110億,那整年大概多少\n\n07:11.687 --> 07:34.599\n我必須要講就是說我們現在很多黑數出現是因為我們鼓勵就是說我們的確有加強宣導以後很多因為被詐騙的人不是今天才被詐騙他可能是半年前一年前被詐騙不好意思我順便加一句為什麼我想知道因為我們一直說打詐國家打詐國家隊打詐國家隊從打詐國家隊出來的時候對民眾的印象來講至少我所感覺到印象來講越打越詐\n\n07:35.279 --> 07:55.462\n越打詐騙越猖狂甚至說我們越來越多年輕人跑去當詐騙集團他們不想當然我們知道這有社會因素有整個經濟的因素存在但是我們似乎我們如果在制度面我們不把握機會把他這個風氣把他擋下來的話那我們其實是沒我們這樣做說再怎麼樣花這麼多經費再怎麼樣做大內宣都不會有用的\n\n07:55.822 --> 08:19.971\n甚至這樣講資訊在未來是最重要的我想數位發展部部長應該最知道資訊現在好不好比現今還重要而如果以資訊來講我們的平台的管制其實是必須要再加強的因為平台的管制來講我剛剛看了你們整個數位發展部的打詐成效跟防制我看完之後覺得我們是不是把我們的整個系統的設置跟我們法規的設置比較像美國\n\n08:20.911 --> 08:35.504\n也就是說我們什麼都選美國的時候就讓他的使用者不停的去做他們的事情我們覺得平台都是無辜的平台我們不能平台不負責使用者的行為是不是我們現在在這個歐盟針對使用者\n\n08:36.445 --> 09:01.670\n如果他們已經察覺到有所謂的違法甚至有害的行為他們是會予以是予以罰款的我們有這個機制嗎?打詐專法會予以根本有這樣的罰款的機制沒錯而且那我想請問一下如果他們是不是現在還是要確定是打詐的廣告他們才會檢舉如果不是如果是只是說OK我今天如果用李昆哲、李賢昭偉的照片上面隨便貼了一個\n\n09:03.251 --> 09:16.248\n那我送出去之後,如果沒有人說這是詐騙,是不是就會過關?我們會有幾個系統,一個就是我們會,我們自己的系統會去掃描,會看到這樣的話,我們會把他要求向臉書要求他下架,我們有這樣的機制,我們從9月,從8月20...\n\n09:20.473 --> 09:30.719\n我記得以前跟我以前有講過24小時之內要下架24小時之內會演出會配合下架那其他的頻道呢?當然也是一樣所有的頻道所有Meta都是一樣嗎?\n\n09:30.719 --> 09:44.888\nIG都是一樣嗎?對TikTok都一樣我們現在就是要求24小時下架TikTok你們可以嗎?Alphabet你們可以管得到嗎?TikTok一樣就是它是我們四大就是我們有六個平台是我們納管這六個平台都要配合不然它就會被罰款\n\n09:45.988 --> 10:00.878\n為什麼我會把這件事特技拿出來講這麼激動因為治安也好打詐也好跟我們息息相關越來越接近了而老實講數位發展部既然是個部我們對它就有更高的期待更更高的要求而且這是符合國人期待不然就當作就不要數位發展部\n\n10:01.878 --> 10:02.958\n我們納管的數位經濟產業我們會好好的監督\n\n","segments":[{"start":4,"end":7.824,"text":"主席有請速發部部長黃部長委員好部長請問現在這個我現在問的是時事題請問一下在過去10天之內政交所、桃園機場、聯電、緯創、台塑都被駭客所攻擊這件事您知道嗎知道請問一下這些的攻擊是從哪裡來的"},{"start":31.044,"end":31.984,"text":"請問為什麼會是俄國的駭客團體?"},{"start":55.722,"end":72.219,"text":"請問因為這件事情我覺得非常嚴重就是說理論上來講雖然說道高一尺魔高一丈這句話我想訴發部還有所有打詐的打詐國家隊最有感觸說真的我聽到國家隊三個字就有點痘痘啊因為每次國家隊表示這邊做得很糟糕所以才需要國家隊"},{"start":73.2,"end":102.68,"text":"但是相對來講如果說現在我們是不是要一個防害國家隊因為最尷尬的地方是俄國、北韓這都是全世界駭客最強的國家那以前他們也不會針對我們請問為什麼現在會開始針對我們呢而且對不起讓我先講完一個攻擊出來對駭客來講每一次的攻擊都必須要有所回應都要有所回報不然的話對他們來講CP值不夠高駭客的其性他們是有事沒事不會主動去挑釁的"},{"start":103.16,"end":125.136,"text":"因為每一次他們的攻擊他們的殭屍網絡就被破壞每一次他們的攻擊他們的IP就會暴露每一次他們的攻擊一定要有效有目的的那這是很快的而我自己以前在以前我自己也在IT上面知道過一些事情我有在IT的經驗那我也知道說我們的防護如果說他們真的要攻擊的話我們很難防得住"},{"start":125.976,"end":152.522,"text":"以一個企業體來講先不要講數法補那我想請問一下在目前來講請問為什麼俄國的駭客要做這種無謂的攻擊我可以防下來的攻擊報告委員那個我們有調查過其實俄國這次駭客攻擊不是只有針對台灣我們看到對美國對河南對一些國家都有攻擊所以這個攻擊應該是我們知道他對美國有政治因素我們知道對河南可能也有北約的政治因素那對台灣呢有沒有政治因素呢"},{"start":152.902,"end":169.068,"text":"還是因為是單純覺得駭客覺得很好玩所以俄國的駭客跑來攻擊臺灣是嗎那個報告委員那個臺灣就是一個攻擊的熱點就過去幾年因為臺灣就是那個大家也知道我們的攻擊數目可能是全球最高的所以幾乎所有的駭客有新的武器大家都拿臺灣當試煉場"},{"start":171.849,"end":194.737,"text":"請問以速發部．因為速發部之前沒有速發部．如果之前沒有一個部來去做數位發展的話．我們對資安的要求．在立法院我們對資安的要求．不會這麼的嚴格．但是現在包括桃園機場．包括政交所．包括聯電．包括偽創．包括台塑都under attack．那請問一下我們的速發部．針對資安這件事情來講．請問你們當這個攻擊來的時候．你們做了些什麼"},{"start":198.658,"end":220.568,"text":"我們當然是說我們有治安署大概就有一些治安通報嘛好不好治安就是我們治安的防護就剛剛講有特別講說我們有所謂通報系統情治通報系統就SERT這樣一個機制我們有事前、事中、事後事前就是集合我們確定治安大家都有達到一個水準那事中就是在攻擊的時候我們所謂的各式各樣通報像SOC或是像是SERT"},{"start":220.908,"end":238.416,"text":"他們會通報那我會跟所有的單位通報說我們看到新的攻擊請大家開始準備那事後我們就分析這攻擊的太陽再去看怎麼樣去加強防護好那未來如果針對俄國再一次的攻擊你們會做些什麼事目前我們看到俄國這攻擊說DDoS攻擊裡面其實並沒有造成造成嚴重的"},{"start":239.316,"end":268.528,"text":"這才是本席覺得對不起我不是說要看人希望人家受傷我不是要我們任何我們國家的企業有任何的損傷或者我們的所有的那個我們不管公司也要還是公部門也要的功能被癱瘓但是如果以我對泰克的瞭解他們這樣子很有第一個就是他們有更實際是不是有更深一層的含義在裡面是不是已經放了其他的其他的不同的病毒在裡面之類的第二個就是他們有表示他們要立威請問為什麼台灣要拿來被他們立威呢"},{"start":268.968,"end":271.269,"text":"請具體一點因為我們這個具體一點未來如果還有一樣的攻擊10月10號快到了未來如果還有一樣的攻擊的時候請問"},{"start":296.619,"end":325.243,"text":"速發部該怎麼樣幫助我們這些可能會被攻擊的單位我們已經提升治安的警戒所以目前就是已經全動員就是在目前那個就是我們已經提升這個警戒就是我們會加強這個monitor就是監控然後防護所以但是我跟委員講就是說我們要民間機構來配合有些CI來配合我們有一個法正在立法院送立法院就是治安"},{"start":325.903,"end":342.106,"text":"謝謝部長不好意思我時間有限那我們現在回到打詐上面因為這時事題很重要這個都是不管是打詐也好都是有關治安的一部分嘛那我想請問一下說我剛剛看到這份打詐的專題報告講說我們把20億還給了受害人那請問部長知道我們今年"},{"start":343.367,"end":365.48,"text":"總共被騙的金額是多少億嗎?那個報告委員今年的那個數目是蠻多請問今年多少億?今年你不能只跟我們講說老實講你們這三份報告給國人看的時候他們會覺得說噢真的有那麼你真的為什麼我們還是覺得身邊的詐騙越來越多為什麼我是覺得說我們打詐打詐國家都打不到為什麼越打越詐"},{"start":366.71,"end":388.366,"text":"這才是為什麼我要問因為你這邊很明顯說跟我講說以返還受害人的所所所所所所損害金額高達20億但是總共配了多少呢我在資料查到在資料上面查到光7月份我們受害就110億然後剛剛9月5號那一天9月4號還是9月5號9月4號那一天我們就差不多4億1000多萬"},{"start":393.049,"end":411.943,"text":"一天就4億1000多萬那你們現在很高興跟我們講我們還了20億給什麼受害人老實講這樣會讓我們民眾覺得幸福嗎數字會說話數字不會騙人那我現在只想知道說到目前今天10月7號為止我們台灣到底有我們台灣到底已知的受詐騙的金額是多少"},{"start":413.055,"end":429.413,"text":"到今天為止,10月4號好了對,這個最後統計在警政署那邊,不過我跟我委員大概多少,總共有個Ball Talk Number應該不止一百,因為7月份就110億光7月份一整個月就110億,那整年大概多少"},{"start":431.687,"end":454.599,"text":"我必須要講就是說我們現在很多黑數出現是因為我們鼓勵就是說我們的確有加強宣導以後很多因為被詐騙的人不是今天才被詐騙他可能是半年前一年前被詐騙不好意思我順便加一句為什麼我想知道因為我們一直說打詐國家打詐國家隊打詐國家隊從打詐國家隊出來的時候對民眾的印象來講至少我所感覺到印象來講越打越詐"},{"start":455.279,"end":475.462,"text":"越打詐騙越猖狂甚至說我們越來越多年輕人跑去當詐騙集團他們不想當然我們知道這有社會因素有整個經濟的因素存在但是我們似乎我們如果在制度面我們不把握機會把他這個風氣把他擋下來的話那我們其實是沒我們這樣做說再怎麼樣花這麼多經費再怎麼樣做大內宣都不會有用的"},{"start":475.822,"end":499.971,"text":"甚至這樣講 資訊在未來是最重要的我想數位發展部部長應該最知道資訊現在好不好比現今還重要而如果以資訊來講我們的平台的管制其實是必須要再加強的因為平台的管制來講我剛剛看了你們整個數位發展部的打詐成效跟防制我看完之後覺得我們是不是把我們的整個系統的設置跟我們法規的設置比較像美國"},{"start":500.911,"end":515.504,"text":"也就是說我們什麼都選美國的時候就讓他的使用者不停的去做他們的事情我們覺得平台都是無辜的平台我們不能平台不負責使用者的行為是不是我們現在在這個歐盟針對使用者"},{"start":516.445,"end":541.67,"text":"如果他們已經察覺到有所謂的違法甚至有害的行為他們是會予以是予以罰款的我們有這個機制嗎?打詐專法會予以根本有這樣的罰款的機制沒錯而且那我想請問一下如果他們是不是現在還是要確定是打詐的廣告他們才會檢舉如果不是如果是只是說OK我今天如果用李昆哲、李賢昭偉的照片上面隨便貼了一個"},{"start":543.251,"end":556.248,"text":"那我送出去之後,如果沒有人說這是詐騙,是不是就會過關?我們會有幾個系統,一個就是我們會,我們自己的系統會去掃描,會看到這樣的話,我們會把他要求向臉書要求他下架,我們有這樣的機制,我們從9月,從8月20..."},{"start":560.473,"end":570.719,"text":"我記得以前跟我以前有講過24小時之內要下架24小時之內會演出會配合下架那其他的頻道呢?當然也是一樣所有的頻道所有Meta都是一樣嗎?"},{"start":570.719,"end":584.888,"text":"IG都是一樣嗎?對TikTok都一樣我們現在就是要求24小時下架TikTok你們可以嗎?Alphabet你們可以管得到嗎?TikTok一樣就是它是我們四大就是我們有六個平台是我們納管這六個平台都要配合不然它就會被罰款"},{"start":585.988,"end":600.878,"text":"為什麼我會把這件事特技拿出來講這麼激動因為治安也好打詐也好跟我們息息相關越來越接近了而老實講數位發展部既然是個部我們對它就有更高的期待更更高的要求而且這是符合國人期待不然就當作就不要數位發展部"},{"start":601.878,"end":602.958,"text":"我們納管的數位經濟產業我們會好好的監督"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:17:34 - 10:28:06","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155126,"gazette":{"lineno":405,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（10時17分）主席，有請數發部部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員沛祥：部長，我現在問的是時事題，請問一下在過去10天之內，證交所、桃園機場、聯電、緯創、台塑都被駭客所攻擊，這件事您知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：知道。"],["林委員沛祥：請問一下這些攻擊是從哪裡來的？"],["黃部長彥男：DDoS……當然一開始在對政府的攻擊開始……"],["林委員沛祥：沒有，我知道DDoS，網路上都查得到……"],["黃部長彥男：一開始是……"],["林委員沛祥：我想知道這些攻擊是從哪裡來的？"],["黃部長彥男：都是從國外，利用……"],["林委員沛祥：國外哪裡？主要從哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：其實因為僵屍網路散布在全世界，所以他是從全世界各……就是有啟動的，我們一開始認為是俄國的一個駭客團體。"],["林委員沛祥：請問為什麼會是俄國的駭客團體？因為這件事情我覺得非常嚴重，理論上來講，雖然說道高一尺魔高一丈，這句話我想數發部還有所有打詐國家隊最有感觸，而說真的，我聽到國家隊三個字就有點「倒彈」，因為每次有國家隊，表示這邊做得很糟糕，所以才需要國家隊，但是相對來講，現在我們是不是要有防駭國家隊？因為最尷尬的地方是俄國、北韓，這都是全世界駭客最強的國家，以前他們也不會針對我們，請問為什麼現在會開始針對我們呢？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員……"],["林委員沛祥：對不起，讓我先講完。一個攻擊出來，對駭客來講，每一次的攻擊都必須要有所回應，都要有所回報，不然的話對他們來講CP值不夠高。駭客的習性，他們是有事沒事不會主動去挑釁的，因為每一次他們的攻擊，他們的僵屍網路就被破壞，每一次他們的攻擊，他們的IP就會暴露，每一次他們的攻擊一定要有效、有目的，這是很快的……而我自己以前也在IT上面知道過一些事情，我有在IT的經驗，我也知道說我們的防護，如果他們真的要攻擊的話，我們很難防得住，以一個企業體來講，先不要講數發部。那我想請問一下，到目前來講，請問為什麼俄國的駭客要做這種無謂的攻擊，我們可以防下來的攻擊？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，那個我們有調查過，其實這次俄國的駭客攻擊，不是只有針臺灣，我們看到對美國、對荷蘭等一些國家都有攻擊，所以攻擊應該是……"],["林委員沛祥：我們知道他們攻擊美國有政治因素，對荷蘭可能也有北約的政治因素，那對臺灣呢？有沒有政治因素？還是駭客單純覺得很好玩，所以俄國的駭客就跑來攻擊臺灣，是嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，臺灣就是一個攻擊的熱點，過去幾年來因為臺灣就是……委員也知道，我們被攻擊的數目可能是全球最高的，所以幾乎所有的駭客，有新的武器大概都拿臺灣當試煉場，這是我們很不希望見到的。"],["林委員沛祥：因為之前沒有數發部，如果沒有一個「部」來做數位發展的話，我們立法院對資安的要求不會這麼地嚴格，但是現在，包括桃園機場、證交所、聯電、緯創、台塑都under attack，請問我們的數發部針對「資安」這件事情，當攻擊來的時候你們做了些什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有資安署，當然就有一些資安通報，包含我們有資安的防護。剛才有特別講到，我們有數位通報系統、情資通報系統，就是CERT這樣的一個機制，分有事前、事中、事後。事前就是稽核，我們要確定大家的資安都有達到一個水準；事中就是在攻擊的時候，我們有各式各樣的通報，像SOC或是像CERT，他們會通報，我們會跟所有的單位通報說我們看到新的攻擊，請大家開始準備；事後我們會去分析這些攻擊的態樣，再去看怎麼樣去加強防護。"],["林委員沛祥：未來針對俄國再一次攻擊，你們會做些什麼反擊嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：目前我們看到俄國攻擊的時候，在第六次的攻擊裡面，其實並沒有造成嚴重的破壞。"],["林委員沛祥：這才是本席覺得……對不起，我不是希望看到有人受傷，我不希望我們國家有任何的企業有任何的損傷，或者我們所有的公司或公部門的功能被癱瘓，但是如果以我對駭客的瞭解，他們這樣子做，第一個，他們是不是有更實際、更深一層的含義在裡面？是不是已經放了其他不同的病毒在裡面之類的？第二個就是表示他們要立威，請問臺灣為什麼會被他們拿來立威呢？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我剛剛講過了，臺灣本來就是攻擊的熱點，所以我覺得被攻擊並不是一個特別的事件，或這次有什麼特別不一樣，我們是一直都有被攻擊。當然，這次攻擊的量，目前看起來，就我們所看到的情報裡面，其實我們並沒有嚴重地受損。"],["林委員沛祥：請具體一點，因為未來如果還有一樣的攻擊，畢竟10月10號快到了，未來如果還有一樣的攻擊時，請問數發部該怎麼幫助我們這些可能會被攻擊的單位？"],["黃部長彥男：我們已經提升資安警戒的level，目前就是全動員，我們會加強monitor（監控）和防護，但我也要跟委員講，我們要民間機構配合、CI來配合，我們有一個法正送立法院，就是資安……"],["林委員沛祥：謝謝部長，不好意思，我時間有限。我們現在回到打詐上面，因為時事題很重要，不管是打詐也好，都是資安的一部分。我想請問一下，我剛剛看到這份打詐的專題報告講說，我們把20億還給受害人，請問部長知不知道我們今年總共被騙的金額是多少億？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，今年的數目是滿多的，不過我跟委員講……"],["林委員沛祥：對，請問今年是多少億？"],["黃部長彥男：今年……"],["林委員沛祥：你不能只跟我講……老實講，你們這3份報告給國人看的時候他們會覺得，噢！真的有那麼……為什麼我們還是覺得身邊的詐騙愈來愈多？為什麼我們的打詐國家隊打不到詐？為什麼愈打愈詐？這才是我為什麼要問的原因。你這裡很明顯地跟我講說，「已返還受害人所受損害金額高達20億」，但是總共被騙了多少呢？我在資料上查到，光7月我們受害的部分就有110億，光9月4號那天，就差不多有四億一千多萬。一天就四億一千多萬！你們現在很高興地跟我們講，還了20億給所謂的受害人，老實講，這會讓我們民眾覺得幸福嗎？","數字會說話，數字不會騙人，我現在只想知道，到今天10月7號為止，我們臺灣已知受詐騙的金額到底是多少？到今天為止……不然到10月4號好了。"],["黃部長彥男：這個最後的統計在警政署那邊，不過我跟委員講……"],["林委員沛祥：大概多少？總是有個ball-park number吧！"],["黃部長彥男：就是剛剛講的百億……"],["林委員沛祥：應該不只吧！因為光是7月一整個月就有110億，那整年大概多少？"],["黃部長彥男：我知道。報告委員，我必須要講，現在有很多黑數出現，是因為我們鼓勵……我們加強宣導以後，的確有很多……因為被詐騙的人不是今天才被詐騙，他可能在半年前、一年前就被詐騙了……"],["林委員沛祥：不好意思，我順便加一句，為什麼我想知道？因為我們一直在說「打詐國家隊」，從「打詐國家隊」出來之後，給民眾的印象來講，至少是我所感覺到的印象來講是愈打愈詐，愈打詐騙愈猖狂，甚至我們有愈來愈多的年輕人跑去當詐騙集團。他們不想，當然我們知道其中有社會因素，有整個經濟的因素存在，但是如果我們在制度面不把握機會，把這個風氣擋下來的話，我們不管再怎樣做、花再多經費、再怎麼做大內宣都不會有用的。","甚至這樣講，資訊在未來是最重要的，我想數發部部長應該最知道，資訊現在搞不好比現金還重要，如果以資訊來講，我們的平台管制其實是必須再加強的。因為以平台的管制來講，我剛剛看了你們數發部的整個「我國打詐成效與防制」的報告，看完之後我覺得，我們整個系統的設置跟法規的設置是不是比較像美國？也就是說，當我們什麼都學美國的時候，就讓它的使用者不停地去做他們的事情，我們平台都是無辜的，平台不負責使用者的行為，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：我們現在在……"],["林委員沛祥：歐盟針對使用者，如果他們已經查到所謂的「違法」，甚至是「有害」的行為，他們是會予以罰款的，我們有這個機制嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：會啊！打詐專法會有這個罰款的機制。"],["林委員沛祥：那我想請問一下，他們現在是不是還要確定是詐騙的廣告才會檢舉？如果不是這種，而只是說，OK，我今天如果用李昆澤前召委的照片，隨便貼上一個粉絲專頁，我送出去之後，如果沒有人說這是詐騙，是不是就會過關？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會有幾個系統，一個是我們自己的系統會去掃描，看到這樣子的話，我們會像臉書一樣要求他下架，我們有這樣的一個機制。我們從8月……"],["林委員沛祥：多快？我記得以前有講過，要在24小時之內下架。"],["黃部長彥男：24小時之內臉書會配合下架。"],["林委員沛祥：那其他的頻道呢？"],["黃部長彥男：也是一樣，所有的頻道都是……"],["林委員沛祥：所有的連Meta也一樣嗎？IG、Threads也都一樣嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對，連TikTok都一樣，我們現在就是要求24小時。"],["林委員沛祥：TikTok你們可以嗎？Alphabet你們可以管得到嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：TikTok一樣，它就是我們四大……有6個平台被我們納管，這6個平台都要配合，不然它就會被罰款。"],["林委員沛祥：為什麼我會把這件事特地拿出來講，還這麼激動？因為資安也好、打詐也好都跟我們息息相關，也愈來愈接近了，所以老實講，數位發展部既然是個「部」，我們對它就有更高的期待跟更高的要求，而且這是符合國人期待，不然當初就不要成立數位發展部。如果今天是個「署」，我們就用署的規格來檢視，如果今天是個「部」，而我們不用部的規格來檢視，就有愧於國人的期待，所以這一點請部長好好想一想、好好札實地把打詐這件事去落實，至少不要說，這方面都是別的單位出的事情，跟我們數發部沒有關係。"],["黃部長彥男：我們納管的數位經濟產業，我們會好好地監督。"],["林委員沛祥：謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林沛祥委員，接下來詢答到何欣純委員之後休息10分鐘。","有請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":88,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","speakers":["魯明哲","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","陳雪生","徐富癸","洪孟楷","李坤城","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","郭國文","林月琴","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、\n內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00001"}}}