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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 362.743, \"end\": 363.404, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"課\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 363.404, \"end\": 363.564, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 363.564, \"end\": 363.764, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 363.764, \"end\": 363.884, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 363.884, \"end\": 363.904, \"score\": 0.996}]}, {\"start\": 364.244, \"end\": 366.245, \"text\": \"所以說你們一早進去就先坐下了?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 364.244, \"end\": 364.364, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 364.364, \"end\": 364.464, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 364.464, \"end\": 364.584, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 364.584, \"end\": 364.744, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 364.744, \"end\": 365.325, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 365.325, \"end\": 365.725, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 365.725, \"end\": 365.865, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 365.865, \"end\": 366.005, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"坐\", \"start\": 366.005, \"end\": 366.105, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 366.105, \"end\": 366.225, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 366.225, \"end\": 366.245, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 385.098, \"end\": 413.497, \"text\": \"原本就是坐在裡面等總統所以說這個裡面的我們跟總統府這個溝通可能我們有疏失沒有特別去強調說總統府進來就要休息所以你們一走進來就坐下了沒有人跟你們說要坐下大家都先坐在裡面了然後總統府就直接走進來所以看到總統沒有站起來不是因為總統府的科員專員請你們說要坐下是你們自己決定的沒有這樣的就是說沒有看到有這樣的事情\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 385.098, \"end\": 385.278, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 385.278, \"end\": 385.398, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 385.398, \"end\": 385.518, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 385.518, \"end\": 385.659, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"坐\", 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447.589, \"text\": \"﹗最近颱風造成很多家園的損害我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色首先請教部長下面這幾句話您是否認同第一在颱風來襲時按照氣象數據提供的建議地方首長來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"﹗\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 432.2, \"end\": 432.36, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 432.36, \"end\": 433.041, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"颱\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 433.041, \"end\": 433.221, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 433.221, \"end\": 433.381, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 433.381, \"end\": 433.521, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 433.521, \"end\": 433.701, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 433.701, \"end\": 434.061, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 434.061, \"end\": 434.442, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 434.442, \"end\": 434.762, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 434.762, \"end\": 434.942, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 444.368, \"end\": 444.588, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 444.588, \"end\": 444.968, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 444.968, \"end\": 445.868, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 445.868, \"end\": 446.029, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 446.029, \"end\": 446.249, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 446.249, \"end\": 446.509, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 446.509, \"end\": 447.169, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 447.169, \"end\": 447.349, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 447.349, \"end\": 447.569, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 447.569, \"end\": 447.589, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 449.33, \"end\": 465.817, \"text\": \"擁有放颱風架的決定權這是第一句第二、戰爭不分颱風影響與否為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢應該要取消颱風架請問部長你覺得第一種說法比較合理還是第二種說法比較合理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"擁\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 449.33, \"end\": 449.55, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 449.55, \"end\": 450.231, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"颱\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 450.231, \"end\": 450.451, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 450.451, \"end\": 450.951, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 450.951, \"end\": 451.491, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 451.491, \"end\": 451.631, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 451.631, \"end\": 451.711, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 451.711, \"end\": 451.871, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"句\", \"start\": 451.871, \"end\": 452.492, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 452.492, \"end\": 452.712, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 452.712, \"end\": 453.652, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 453.652, \"end\": 453.812, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 453.812, \"end\": 454.472, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"颱\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 454.472, \"end\": 455.073, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 455.073, \"end\": 455.593, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 455.593, \"end\": 455.933, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 455.933, \"end\": 456.173, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 456.173, \"end\": 456.973, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 456.973, \"end\": 457.173, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 457.173, \"end\": 457.754, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 457.754, \"end\": 457.914, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 457.914, \"end\": 458.934, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 458.934, \"end\": 460.075, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 460.075, \"end\": 460.335, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 460.335, \"end\": 460.535, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 460.535, \"end\": 461.215, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"颱\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 461.215, \"end\": 462.135, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 462.135, \"end\": 462.476, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 462.476, \"end\": 462.736, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 462.736, \"end\": 462.896, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 462.896, \"end\": 462.996, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 852.782, \"end\": 853.023, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 853.023, \"end\": 853.603, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 853.603, \"end\": 853.723, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 853.723, \"end\": 853.743, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 853.743, \"end\": 853.783, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 853.783, \"end\": 853.803, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,304 --> 00:00:03,026\n謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長請顧部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,174 --> 00:00:28,427\n部長好,我們剛才有提到美方的雷神採購但其實我們軍方跟雷神採購的裝備裡面我想詢問是否有一筆台幣182億元的愛國者三型PAC-3的飛彈重建建設案\n\n3\n00:00:39,574 --> 00:00:47,570\n這是一個檢測案。我想這個檢測案的內容主要是不是先…可不可以簡單說明?對,簡單說明。\n\n4\n00:00:49,075 --> 00:01:09,593\n報告委員我們這個愛三重建車案主要是愛國者飛彈它使用10年之後我們的導引斷件必須做更換來確保它可以發揮原本的效能所以它是一個維修費的案維修費用對不對但是呢根據今天媒體的報導喔國防部最早規劃呢這個採購案本來是整體的愛國者飛彈採購案是1791億餘元喔那在預定2021年的時候結案\n\n5\n00:01:16,218 --> 00:01:33,617\n那呢軍售結餘款本來應該要繳庫的但美方要求182億元結餘款不要繳庫那所以呢空軍的這個防空指揮部呢就擅自跟美方簽發了這個架書最後呢以說好買好的飛彈數量沒有買夠\n\n6\n00:01:35,799 --> 00:02:02,721\n用這筆錢來補買、修訂為愛二性能提升及採購愛三的續購案以補充原彈藥的不足數將全案延長到2027年結案請問是否有此事?這個是不實的所以今天媒體的報導是不實的消息從建設案是一個新政案新政案而且報立法院審議通過至於愛三的剩餘的結餘款是我們拿來徵購\n\n7\n00:02:04,884 --> 00:02:08,775\n這個徵購案也經過立法院審議通過所以兩個事情是不同的\n\n8\n00:02:09,656 --> 00:02:31,062\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍�\n\n9\n00:02:34,403 --> 00:03:01,682\n沒有所謂的空軍防炮指揮部先講後奏擅自與美方簽約空軍司令跟國防部長事先不知道就建案作業的事情這個程序上的瑕疵是有的有所以確定有這件事對這個當時這個也已經被糾正了被糾正了對但是事後補齊了相關的文件之後呢報立法院立法院也審查通過所以這182億元後來如何處理\n\n10\n00:03:05,307 --> 00:03:16,536\n這182議員就是邊按照這個相關的程序把它完整之後報到立法院,立法院也審議通過了。審議通過那如何懲處?相關的名單有多少人?應該有懲處啊。恐軍有沒有?\n\n11\n00:03:19,378 --> 00:03:39,868\n報告委員這個案子向委員報告這個案子國防部在一開始出現消息的時候我們就已經召開新聞記者會進行說明那接下來我們也到監察院來進行相關的調查跟詢問最後的懲處結果是如何的空軍副司令以下相關人員都受到懲處\n\n12\n00:03:41,588 --> 00:03:45,509\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n\n13\n00:04:00,314 --> 00:04:21,097\n外界另外也很關注賴總統在8月份的時候在新進將裡面看到三軍統帥沒有立正好像不高興但其實外界說是總統府的一位女性官員請大家坐下所以導致的誤會想請問一下部長那位官員是誰?誰請大家坐下的?\n\n14\n00:04:22,138 --> 00:04:45,544\n跟委員報告我當時到場的時候並沒有看到那其他的新晉將領文你沒有去詢問瞭解這個狀況我瞭解請問是誰請大家先坐下來委員好這個一開始就是總統是好意希望能夠在進任典禮完之後辦一個茶會然後這個好意那個總統給我們的資訊是總統是誰給你的資訊是交際科\n\n15\n00:04:48,965 --> 00:04:51,406\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧\n\n16\n00:05:12,219 --> 00:05:37,729\n我想并沒有：我的理解並沒有說要如何：因為這個是事先在移植的這個溝通上面可能有所不足所以並沒有說哪個專員就要當時現場在場坐下我是很疑惑就是說一個專員那他來溝通然後大家就覺得專員講的意見能夠代表總統那就坐下來了引發這一系列的誤會\n\n17\n00:05:38,889 --> 00:06:03,904\n所以請問不是郭雅惠發言人也不是辦公室主任陳奕霖兩位都不是我想剛剛您說明了剛才那個右邊這位知道是誰跟你們溝通的這兩位都不是吧我們確認一下而已前一個禮拜我們就在跟總統交際課做一個協調交際課的哪一位\n\n18\n00:06:04,244 --> 00:06:06,245\n所以說你們一早進去就先坐下了?\n\n19\n00:06:25,098 --> 00:06:53,497\n原本就是坐在裡面等總統所以說這個裡面的我們跟總統府這個溝通可能我們有疏失沒有特別去強調說總統府進來就要休息所以你們一走進來就坐下了沒有人跟你們說要坐下大家都先坐在裡面了然後總統府就直接走進來所以看到總統沒有站起來不是因為總統府的科員專員請你們說要坐下是你們自己決定的沒有這樣的就是說沒有看到有這樣的事情\n\n20\n00:06:53,737 --> 00:06:54,438\n我還有很多其他的問題要問\n\n21\n00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:27,589\n﹗最近颱風造成很多家園的損害我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色首先請教部長下面這幾句話您是否認同第一在颱風來襲時按照氣象數據提供的建議地方首長來\n\n22\n00:07:29,330 --> 00:07:45,817\n擁有放颱風架的決定權這是第一句第二、戰爭不分颱風影響與否為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢應該要取消颱風架請問部長你覺得第一種說法比較合理還是第二種說法比較合理\n\n23\n00:07:48,809 --> 00:08:12,335\n第一種是呢,颱風來襲的時候按照氣象署的數據提供的建議由地方首長來決定是否放颱風架第二種說法是戰爭不分颱風架影響與否因應兩岸可能發生的戰爭歧視情勢應該要取消颱風架這兩種說法第一種跟第二種部長您覺得哪一種說法比較有道理\n\n24\n00:08:13,218 --> 00:08:14,139\n所以你認為颱風價對於台灣來說是否有必要性嗎?\n\n25\n00:08:36,781 --> 00:09:01,698\n對我們國軍來講我們颱風來的時候可能對於可能的遭害我們都會做兵力的預置裝備裝備的一個預置然後我們也會一起開設你認為颱風架對於民眾對於如果沒有放颱風架的話那民眾在外面可能會有更多的風險對於國軍的救災行動來說會不會增加更多的難度跟風險跟人力的投入\n\n26\n00:09:02,626 --> 00:09:19,303\n我想我們對於是不是放颱風架這一點我還是在強調這不是國防部夜館的部分不是我能夠回答的沒有我問的是對國軍來說如果沒有颱風架那國軍會不會投入更多的資源因為沒有保護到人民的安全\n\n27\n00:09:21,402 --> 00:09:47,893\n國軍就是投入救災這個是我們的中心任務之一所以我不知道委員問的意思是說有真的颱風來了然後沒有放假還是說沒有颱風來了然後放假真的有颱風來了沒有放假就是真的颱風來了不放假這件事情\n\n28\n00:09:48,715 --> 00:10:09,900\n那真的台灣來沒有放假那我想各地方政府首長在決定要不要放的時候都是在考慮國人的生命安全的問題來我們看一下可是呢我們總統府狹下成立的新單位全民認防衛社會任性委員會裡面總統清點的曹新成顧問以他的專業在社群網路上面發表評論他說\n\n29\n00:10:11,740 --> 00:10:30,932\n從全民防衛熱性的觀點來看要取消颱風架因為如果繼續放颱風架以後全民都要進西中營進行勞改這明顯跟您剛剛的觀點是不一致的請問我們老百姓是要聽您的還是聽我們顧問的我想對任何個人的發言我們都表示尊重因為他是顧問啊\n\n30\n00:10:33,123 --> 00:10:35,526\n國軍在太光演習遇到颱風的時候是如何因應的?\n\n31\n00:10:48,624 --> 00:11:09,634\n我們事實上這一次也真的遇到颱風是的我們去年也遇到颱風是的那我們要試颱風的一個狀況就改成就變成轉換任務為救災那做一級開設啊是啊我們很支持所以我們雖然是遇到颱風那我們改成防災救災任務這也是我們一貫的傳統我也很支持\n\n32\n00:11:10,174 --> 00:11:36,934\n但是呢這跟我們任性委員會的曹顧問的方向邏輯完全不一致對他來說轉成災害救災任務那是不是以後也要進集中營類似這樣的方式我覺得呢如果類似這樣子的顧問跌床架屋的說法反而呢會讓我們的國防任性所謂的全民國防任性產生更多的困擾那部長你知不知道任性委員會裡面總共有哪些顧問跟哪些委員\n\n33\n00:11:39,095 --> 00:11:54,640\n我想我那天有參與開會但是我現在詳細的名單不記得了但是我要說明的是我想任何人都有他表達意見的一個自由那確實有很多國家是沒有颱風架這個概念我同意因為有些地方沒有颱風當然沒有颱風架這不廢話嗎\n\n34\n00:11:56,300 --> 00:12:23,359\n但我想知道的是因為日本的緯度比較高所以日本的颱風對他們的影響是比較小的這個是有嗎有這是非常確定的你去問日本的專家日本的緯度比較高所以他的這個日代氣旋往上的時候日本最近好像受了很多颱風沒有你去問日本的颱風是比較小的那我另外要問再給我一點時間40萬名利這件事情請問法院依據是什麼\n\n35\n00:12:24,781 --> 00:12:47,692\n四十萬民力這個有相關主要來自於民防法的相關的規定那民防法第二條告訴我們除了救災以外有沒有包含民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務的部分就這一個現行的民防法它現在的規範是如此是如此的所以暫時會否轉為民兵\n\n36\n00:12:50,694 --> 00:12:51,394\n那要如何自衛?\n\n37\n00:13:13,245 --> 00:13:33,476\n主要是在強調現在應該是講如何自救或者是能夠救人自救跟救人所以他要自己能夠自救然後同時如果他可以發展出像類似有EMT-1或是甚至EMT-2的那我們是不是在民防法裡面應該要寫得更清楚一點\n\n38\n00:13:34,136 --> 00:13:55,349\n我想這個民法法的規範也已經相當久了啦,應該是可以來檢討。好,那我們最後一個問題喔。40萬名利是由誰來指揮?全社會任性防衛委員會、國防部、內政部警政署、民防指揮所、國安會。\n\n39\n00:13:56,209 --> 00:14:13,803\n在這四個相關聯的部會裡面請問這40萬的名利在暫時是由誰來統一做指揮跟委員報告因為到了如果有任何緊急狀況的時候會成立中央聯合應變中心那基本上名利的部分是由內政部來主導來進行調度好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1304\t3026\t謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長請顧部長\n17174\t28427\t部長好,我們剛才有提到美方的雷神採購但其實我們軍方跟雷神採購的裝備裡面我想詢問是否有一筆台幣182億元的愛國者三型PAC-3的飛彈重建建設案\n39574\t47570\t這是一個檢測案。我想這個檢測案的內容主要是不是先…可不可以簡單說明?對,簡單說明。\n49075\t69593\t報告委員我們這個愛三重建車案主要是愛國者飛彈它使用10年之後我們的導引斷件必須做更換來確保它可以發揮原本的效能所以它是一個維修費的案維修費用對不對但是呢根據今天媒體的報導喔國防部最早規劃呢這個採購案本來是整體的愛國者飛彈採購案是1791億餘元喔那在預定2021年的時候結案\n76218\t93617\t那呢軍售結餘款本來應該要繳庫的但美方要求182億元結餘款不要繳庫那所以呢空軍的這個防空指揮部呢就擅自跟美方簽發了這個架書最後呢以說好買好的飛彈數量沒有買夠\n95799\t122721\t用這筆錢來補買、修訂為愛二性能提升及採購愛三的續購案以補充原彈藥的不足數將全案延長到2027年結案請問是否有此事?這個是不實的所以今天媒體的報導是不實的消息從建設案是一個新政案新政案而且報立法院審議通過至於愛三的剩餘的結餘款是我們拿來徵購\n124884\t128775\t這個徵購案也經過立法院審議通過所以兩個事情是不同的\n129656\t151062\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍�\n154403\t181682\t沒有所謂的空軍防炮指揮部先講後奏擅自與美方簽約空軍司令跟國防部長事先不知道就建案作業的事情這個程序上的瑕疵是有的有所以確定有這件事對這個當時這個也已經被糾正了被糾正了對但是事後補齊了相關的文件之後呢報立法院立法院也審查通過所以這182億元後來如何處理\n185307\t196536\t這182議員就是邊按照這個相關的程序把它完整之後報到立法院,立法院也審議通過了。審議通過那如何懲處?相關的名單有多少人?應該有懲處啊。恐軍有沒有?\n199378\t219868\t報告委員 這個案子向委員報告 這個案子國防部在一開始出現消息的時候我們就已經召開新聞記者會進行說明那接下來我們也到監察院來進行相關的調查跟詢問最後的懲處結果是如何的空軍副司令以下相關人員都受到懲處\n221588\t225509\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n240314\t261097\t外界另外也很關注賴總統在8月份的時候在新進將裡面看到三軍統帥沒有立正好像不高興但其實外界說是總統府的一位女性官員請大家坐下所以導致的誤會想請問一下部長那位官員是誰?誰請大家坐下的?\n262138\t285544\t跟委員報告我當時到場的時候並沒有看到那其他的新晉將領文你沒有去詢問瞭解這個狀況我瞭解請問是誰請大家先坐下來委員好這個一開始就是總統是好意希望能夠在進任典禮完之後辦一個茶會然後這個好意那個總統給我們的資訊是總統是誰給你的資訊是交際科\n288965\t291406\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧\n312219\t337729\t我想并沒有：我的理解並沒有說要如何：因為這個是事先在移植的這個溝通上面可能有所不足所以並沒有說哪個專員就要當時現場在場坐下我是很疑惑就是說一個專員那他來溝通然後大家就覺得專員講的意見能夠代表總統那就坐下來了引發這一系列的誤會\n338889\t363904\t所以請問不是郭雅惠發言人也不是辦公室主任陳奕霖兩位都不是我想剛剛您說明了剛才那個右邊這位知道是誰跟你們溝通的這兩位都不是吧我們確認一下而已前一個禮拜我們就在跟總統交際課做一個協調交際課的哪一位\n364244\t366245\t所以說你們一早進去就先坐下了?\n385098\t413497\t原本就是坐在裡面等總統所以說這個裡面的我們跟總統府這個溝通可能我們有疏失沒有特別去強調說總統府進來就要休息所以你們一走進來就坐下了沒有人跟你們說要坐下大家都先坐在裡面了然後總統府就直接走進來所以看到總統沒有站起來不是因為總統府的科員專員請你們說要坐下是你們自己決定的沒有這樣的就是說沒有看到有這樣的事情\n413737\t414438\t我還有很多其他的問題要問\n432200\t447589\t﹗最近颱風造成很多家園的損害我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色首先請教部長下面這幾句話您是否認同第一在颱風來襲時按照氣象數據提供的建議地方首長來\n449330\t465817\t擁有放颱風架的決定權這是第一句第二、戰爭不分颱風影響與否為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢應該要取消颱風架請問部長你覺得第一種說法比較合理還是第二種說法比較合理\n468809\t492335\t第一種是呢,颱風來襲的時候按照氣象署的數據提供的建議由地方首長來決定是否放颱風架第二種說法是戰爭不分颱風架影響與否因應兩岸可能發生的戰爭歧視情勢應該要取消颱風架這兩種說法第一種跟第二種部長您覺得哪一種說法比較有道理\n493218\t494139\t所以你認為颱風價對於台灣來說是否有必要性嗎?\n516781\t541698\t對我們國軍來講我們颱風來的時候可能對於可能的遭害我們都會做兵力的預置裝備裝備的一個預置然後我們也會一起開設你認為颱風架對於民眾對於如果沒有放颱風架的話那民眾在外面可能會有更多的風險對於國軍的救災行動來說會不會增加更多的難度跟風險跟人力的投入\n542626\t559303\t我想我們對於是不是放颱風架這一點我還是在強調這不是國防部夜館的部分不是我能夠回答的沒有我問的是對國軍來說如果沒有颱風架那國軍會不會投入更多的資源因為沒有保護到人民的安全\n561402\t587893\t國軍就是投入救災這個是我們的中心任務之一所以我不知道委員問的意思是說有真的颱風來了然後沒有放假還是說沒有颱風來了然後放假真的有颱風來了沒有放假就是真的颱風來了不放假這件事情\n588715\t609900\t那真的台灣來沒有放假那我想各地方政府首長在決定要不要放的時候都是在考慮國人的生命安全的問題來我們看一下可是呢我們總統府狹下成立的新單位全民認防衛社會任性委員會裡面總統清點的曹新成顧問以他的專業在社群網路上面發表評論他說\n611740\t630932\t從全民防衛熱性的觀點來看要取消颱風架因為如果繼續放颱風架以後全民都要進西中營進行勞改這明顯跟您剛剛的觀點是不一致的請問我們老百姓是要聽您的還是聽我們顧問的我想對任何個人的發言我們都表示尊重因為他是顧問啊\n633123\t635526\t國軍在太光演習遇到颱風的時候是如何因應的?\n648624\t669634\t我們事實上這一次也真的遇到颱風是的我們去年也遇到颱風是的那我們要試颱風的一個狀況就改成就變成轉換任務為救災那做一級開設啊是啊我們很支持所以我們雖然是遇到颱風那我們改成防災救災任務這也是我們一貫的傳統我也很支持\n670174\t696934\t但是呢這跟我們任性委員會的曹顧問的方向邏輯完全不一致對他來說轉成災害救災任務那是不是以後也要進集中營類似這樣的方式我覺得呢如果類似這樣子的顧問跌床架屋的說法反而呢會讓我們的國防任性所謂的全民國防任性產生更多的困擾那部長你知不知道任性委員會裡面總共有哪些顧問跟哪些委員\n699095\t714640\t我想我那天有參與開會但是我現在詳細的名單不記得了但是我要說明的是我想任何人都有他表達意見的一個自由那確實有很多國家是沒有颱風架這個概念我同意因為有些地方沒有颱風當然沒有颱風架這不廢話嗎\n716300\t743359\t但我想知道的是因為日本的緯度比較高所以日本的颱風對他們的影響是比較小的這個是有嗎有這是非常確定的你去問日本的專家日本的緯度比較高所以他的這個日代氣旋往上的時候日本最近好像受了很多颱風沒有你去問日本的颱風是比較小的那我另外要問再給我一點時間40萬名利這件事情請問法院依據是什麼\n744781\t767692\t四十萬民力這個有相關主要來自於民防法的相關的規定那民防法第二條告訴我們除了救災以外有沒有包含民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務的部分就這一個現行的民防法它現在的規範是如此是如此的所以暫時會否轉為民兵\n770694\t771394\t那要如何自衛?\n793245\t813476\t主要是在強調現在應該是講如何自救或者是能夠救人自救跟救人所以他要自己能夠自救然後同時如果他可以發展出像類似有EMT-1或是甚至EMT-2的那我們是不是在民防法裡面應該要寫得更清楚一點\n814136\t835349\t我想這個民法法的規範也已經相當久了啦,應該是可以來檢討。好,那我們最後一個問題喔。40萬名利是由誰來指揮?全社會任性防衛委員會、國防部、內政部警政署、民防指揮所、國安會。\n836209\t853803\t在這四個相關聯的部會裡面請問這40萬的名利在暫時是由誰來統一做指揮跟委員報告因為到了如果有任何緊急狀況的時候會成立中央聯合應變中心那基本上名利的部分是由內政部來主導來進行調度好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長請顧部長\n部長好,我們剛才有提到美方的雷神採購但其實我們軍方跟雷神採購的裝備裡面我想詢問是否有一筆台幣182億元的愛國者三型PAC-3的飛彈重建建設案\n這是一個檢測案。我想這個檢測案的內容主要是不是先…可不可以簡單說明?對,簡單說明。\n報告委員我們這個愛三重建車案主要是愛國者飛彈它使用10年之後我們的導引斷件必須做更換來確保它可以發揮原本的效能所以它是一個維修費的案維修費用對不對但是呢根據今天媒體的報導喔國防部最早規劃呢這個採購案本來是整體的愛國者飛彈採購案是1791億餘元喔那在預定2021年的時候結案\n那呢軍售結餘款本來應該要繳庫的但美方要求182億元結餘款不要繳庫那所以呢空軍的這個防空指揮部呢就擅自跟美方簽發了這個架書最後呢以說好買好的飛彈數量沒有買夠\n用這筆錢來補買、修訂為愛二性能提升及採購愛三的續購案以補充原彈藥的不足數將全案延長到2027年結案請問是否有此事?這個是不實的所以今天媒體的報導是不實的消息從建設案是一個新政案新政案而且報立法院審議通過至於愛三的剩餘的結餘款是我們拿來徵購\n這個徵購案也經過立法院審議通過所以兩個事情是不同的\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍�\n沒有所謂的空軍防炮指揮部先講後奏擅自與美方簽約空軍司令跟國防部長事先不知道就建案作業的事情這個程序上的瑕疵是有的有所以確定有這件事對這個當時這個也已經被糾正了被糾正了對但是事後補齊了相關的文件之後呢報立法院立法院也審查通過所以這182億元後來如何處理\n這182議員就是邊按照這個相關的程序把它完整之後報到立法院,立法院也審議通過了。審議通過那如何懲處?相關的名單有多少人?應該有懲處啊。恐軍有沒有?\n報告委員 這個案子向委員報告 這個案子國防部在一開始出現消息的時候我們就已經召開新聞記者會進行說明那接下來我們也到監察院來進行相關的調查跟詢問最後的懲處結果是如何的空軍副司令以下相關人員都受到懲處\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n外界另外也很關注賴總統在8月份的時候在新進將裡面看到三軍統帥沒有立正好像不高興但其實外界說是總統府的一位女性官員請大家坐下所以導致的誤會想請問一下部長那位官員是誰?誰請大家坐下的?\n跟委員報告我當時到場的時候並沒有看到那其他的新晉將領文你沒有去詢問瞭解這個狀況我瞭解請問是誰請大家先坐下來委員好這個一開始就是總統是好意希望能夠在進任典禮完之後辦一個茶會然後這個好意那個總統給我們的資訊是總統是誰給你的資訊是交際科\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧\n我想并沒有：我的理解並沒有說要如何：因為這個是事先在移植的這個溝通上面可能有所不足所以並沒有說哪個專員就要當時現場在場坐下我是很疑惑就是說一個專員那他來溝通然後大家就覺得專員講的意見能夠代表總統那就坐下來了引發這一系列的誤會\n所以請問不是郭雅惠發言人也不是辦公室主任陳奕霖兩位都不是我想剛剛您說明了剛才那個右邊這位知道是誰跟你們溝通的這兩位都不是吧我們確認一下而已前一個禮拜我們就在跟總統交際課做一個協調交際課的哪一位\n所以說你們一早進去就先坐下了?\n原本就是坐在裡面等總統所以說這個裡面的我們跟總統府這個溝通可能我們有疏失沒有特別去強調說總統府進來就要休息所以你們一走進來就坐下了沒有人跟你們說要坐下大家都先坐在裡面了然後總統府就直接走進來所以看到總統沒有站起來不是因為總統府的科員專員請你們說要坐下是你們自己決定的沒有這樣的就是說沒有看到有這樣的事情\n我還有很多其他的問題要問\n﹗最近颱風造成很多家園的損害我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色首先請教部長下面這幾句話您是否認同第一在颱風來襲時按照氣象數據提供的建議地方首長來\n擁有放颱風架的決定權這是第一句第二、戰爭不分颱風影響與否為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢應該要取消颱風架請問部長你覺得第一種說法比較合理還是第二種說法比較合理\n第一種是呢,颱風來襲的時候按照氣象署的數據提供的建議由地方首長來決定是否放颱風架第二種說法是戰爭不分颱風架影響與否因應兩岸可能發生的戰爭歧視情勢應該要取消颱風架這兩種說法第一種跟第二種部長您覺得哪一種說法比較有道理\n所以你認為颱風價對於台灣來說是否有必要性嗎?\n對我們國軍來講我們颱風來的時候可能對於可能的遭害我們都會做兵力的預置裝備裝備的一個預置然後我們也會一起開設你認為颱風架對於民眾對於如果沒有放颱風架的話那民眾在外面可能會有更多的風險對於國軍的救災行動來說會不會增加更多的難度跟風險跟人力的投入\n我想我們對於是不是放颱風架這一點我還是在強調這不是國防部夜館的部分不是我能夠回答的沒有我問的是對國軍來說如果沒有颱風架那國軍會不會投入更多的資源因為沒有保護到人民的安全\n國軍就是投入救災這個是我們的中心任務之一所以我不知道委員問的意思是說有真的颱風來了然後沒有放假還是說沒有颱風來了然後放假真的有颱風來了沒有放假就是真的颱風來了不放假這件事情\n那真的台灣來沒有放假那我想各地方政府首長在決定要不要放的時候都是在考慮國人的生命安全的問題來我們看一下可是呢我們總統府狹下成立的新單位全民認防衛社會任性委員會裡面總統清點的曹新成顧問以他的專業在社群網路上面發表評論他說\n從全民防衛熱性的觀點來看要取消颱風架因為如果繼續放颱風架以後全民都要進西中營進行勞改這明顯跟您剛剛的觀點是不一致的請問我們老百姓是要聽您的還是聽我們顧問的我想對任何個人的發言我們都表示尊重因為他是顧問啊\n國軍在太光演習遇到颱風的時候是如何因應的?\n我們事實上這一次也真的遇到颱風是的我們去年也遇到颱風是的那我們要試颱風的一個狀況就改成就變成轉換任務為救災那做一級開設啊是啊我們很支持所以我們雖然是遇到颱風那我們改成防災救災任務這也是我們一貫的傳統我也很支持\n但是呢這跟我們任性委員會的曹顧問的方向邏輯完全不一致對他來說轉成災害救災任務那是不是以後也要進集中營類似這樣的方式我覺得呢如果類似這樣子的顧問跌床架屋的說法反而呢會讓我們的國防任性所謂的全民國防任性產生更多的困擾那部長你知不知道任性委員會裡面總共有哪些顧問跟哪些委員\n我想我那天有參與開會但是我現在詳細的名單不記得了但是我要說明的是我想任何人都有他表達意見的一個自由那確實有很多國家是沒有颱風架這個概念我同意因為有些地方沒有颱風當然沒有颱風架這不廢話嗎\n但我想知道的是因為日本的緯度比較高所以日本的颱風對他們的影響是比較小的這個是有嗎有這是非常確定的你去問日本的專家日本的緯度比較高所以他的這個日代氣旋往上的時候日本最近好像受了很多颱風沒有你去問日本的颱風是比較小的那我另外要問再給我一點時間40萬名利這件事情請問法院依據是什麼\n四十萬民力這個有相關主要來自於民防法的相關的規定那民防法第二條告訴我們除了救災以外有沒有包含民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務的部分就這一個現行的民防法它現在的規範是如此是如此的所以暫時會否轉為民兵\n那要如何自衛?\n主要是在強調現在應該是講如何自救或者是能夠救人自救跟救人所以他要自己能夠自救然後同時如果他可以發展出像類似有EMT-1或是甚至EMT-2的那我們是不是在民防法裡面應該要寫得更清楚一點\n我想這個民法法的規範也已經相當久了啦,應該是可以來檢討。好,那我們最後一個問題喔。40萬名利是由誰來指揮?全社會任性防衛委員會、國防部、內政部警政署、民防指揮所、國安會。\n在這四個相關聯的部會裡面請問這40萬的名利在暫時是由誰來統一做指揮跟委員報告因為到了如果有任何緊急狀況的時候會成立中央聯合應變中心那基本上名利的部分是由內政部來主導來進行調度好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.304 --> 00:03.026\n謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長請顧部長\n\n00:17.174 --> 00:28.427\n部長好,我們剛才有提到美方的雷神採購但其實我們軍方跟雷神採購的裝備裡面我想詢問是否有一筆台幣182億元的愛國者三型PAC-3的飛彈重建建設案\n\n00:39.574 --> 00:47.570\n這是一個檢測案。我想這個檢測案的內容主要是不是先…可不可以簡單說明?對,簡單說明。\n\n00:49.075 --> 01:09.593\n報告委員我們這個愛三重建車案主要是愛國者飛彈它使用10年之後我們的導引斷件必須做更換來確保它可以發揮原本的效能所以它是一個維修費的案維修費用對不對但是呢根據今天媒體的報導喔國防部最早規劃呢這個採購案本來是整體的愛國者飛彈採購案是1791億餘元喔那在預定2021年的時候結案\n\n01:16.218 --> 01:33.617\n那呢軍售結餘款本來應該要繳庫的但美方要求182億元結餘款不要繳庫那所以呢空軍的這個防空指揮部呢就擅自跟美方簽發了這個架書最後呢以說好買好的飛彈數量沒有買夠\n\n01:35.799 --> 02:02.721\n用這筆錢來補買、修訂為愛二性能提升及採購愛三的續購案以補充原彈藥的不足數將全案延長到2027年結案請問是否有此事?這個是不實的所以今天媒體的報導是不實的消息從建設案是一個新政案新政案而且報立法院審議通過至於愛三的剩餘的結餘款是我們拿來徵購\n\n02:04.884 --> 02:08.775\n這個徵購案也經過立法院審議通過所以兩個事情是不同的\n\n02:09.656 --> 02:31.062\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍�\n\n02:34.403 --> 03:01.682\n沒有所謂的空軍防炮指揮部先講後奏擅自與美方簽約空軍司令跟國防部長事先不知道就建案作業的事情這個程序上的瑕疵是有的有所以確定有這件事對這個當時這個也已經被糾正了被糾正了對但是事後補齊了相關的文件之後呢報立法院立法院也審查通過所以這182億元後來如何處理\n\n03:05.307 --> 03:16.536\n這182議員就是邊按照這個相關的程序把它完整之後報到立法院,立法院也審議通過了。審議通過那如何懲處?相關的名單有多少人?應該有懲處啊。恐軍有沒有?\n\n03:19.378 --> 03:39.868\n報告委員這個案子向委員報告這個案子國防部在一開始出現消息的時候我們就已經召開新聞記者會進行說明那接下來我們也到監察院來進行相關的調查跟詢問最後的懲處結果是如何的空軍副司令以下相關人員都受到懲處\n\n03:41.588 --> 03:45.509\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n\n04:00.314 --> 04:21.097\n外界另外也很關注賴總統在8月份的時候在新進將裡面看到三軍統帥沒有立正好像不高興但其實外界說是總統府的一位女性官員請大家坐下所以導致的誤會想請問一下部長那位官員是誰?誰請大家坐下的?\n\n04:22.138 --> 04:45.544\n跟委員報告我當時到場的時候並沒有看到那其他的新晉將領文你沒有去詢問瞭解這個狀況我瞭解請問是誰請大家先坐下來委員好這個一開始就是總統是好意希望能夠在進任典禮完之後辦一個茶會然後這個好意那個總統給我們的資訊是總統是誰給你的資訊是交際科\n\n04:48.965 --> 04:51.406\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧\n\n05:12.219 --> 05:37.729\n我想并沒有：我的理解並沒有說要如何：因為這個是事先在移植的這個溝通上面可能有所不足所以並沒有說哪個專員就要當時現場在場坐下我是很疑惑就是說一個專員那他來溝通然後大家就覺得專員講的意見能夠代表總統那就坐下來了引發這一系列的誤會\n\n05:38.889 --> 06:03.904\n所以請問不是郭雅惠發言人也不是辦公室主任陳奕霖兩位都不是我想剛剛您說明了剛才那個右邊這位知道是誰跟你們溝通的這兩位都不是吧我們確認一下而已前一個禮拜我們就在跟總統交際課做一個協調交際課的哪一位\n\n06:04.244 --> 06:06.245\n所以說你們一早進去就先坐下了?\n\n06:25.098 --> 06:53.497\n原本就是坐在裡面等總統所以說這個裡面的我們跟總統府這個溝通可能我們有疏失沒有特別去強調說總統府進來就要休息所以你們一走進來就坐下了沒有人跟你們說要坐下大家都先坐在裡面了然後總統府就直接走進來所以看到總統沒有站起來不是因為總統府的科員專員請你們說要坐下是你們自己決定的沒有這樣的就是說沒有看到有這樣的事情\n\n06:53.737 --> 06:54.438\n我還有很多其他的問題要問\n\n07:12.200 --> 07:27.589\n﹗最近颱風造成很多家園的損害我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色首先請教部長下面這幾句話您是否認同第一在颱風來襲時按照氣象數據提供的建議地方首長來\n\n07:29.330 --> 07:45.817\n擁有放颱風架的決定權這是第一句第二、戰爭不分颱風影響與否為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢應該要取消颱風架請問部長你覺得第一種說法比較合理還是第二種說法比較合理\n\n07:48.809 --> 08:12.335\n第一種是呢,颱風來襲的時候按照氣象署的數據提供的建議由地方首長來決定是否放颱風架第二種說法是戰爭不分颱風架影響與否因應兩岸可能發生的戰爭歧視情勢應該要取消颱風架這兩種說法第一種跟第二種部長您覺得哪一種說法比較有道理\n\n08:13.218 --> 08:14.139\n所以你認為颱風價對於台灣來說是否有必要性嗎?\n\n08:36.781 --> 09:01.698\n對我們國軍來講我們颱風來的時候可能對於可能的遭害我們都會做兵力的預置裝備裝備的一個預置然後我們也會一起開設你認為颱風架對於民眾對於如果沒有放颱風架的話那民眾在外面可能會有更多的風險對於國軍的救災行動來說會不會增加更多的難度跟風險跟人力的投入\n\n09:02.626 --> 09:19.303\n我想我們對於是不是放颱風架這一點我還是在強調這不是國防部夜館的部分不是我能夠回答的沒有我問的是對國軍來說如果沒有颱風架那國軍會不會投入更多的資源因為沒有保護到人民的安全\n\n09:21.402 --> 09:47.893\n國軍就是投入救災這個是我們的中心任務之一所以我不知道委員問的意思是說有真的颱風來了然後沒有放假還是說沒有颱風來了然後放假真的有颱風來了沒有放假就是真的颱風來了不放假這件事情\n\n09:48.715 --> 10:09.900\n那真的台灣來沒有放假那我想各地方政府首長在決定要不要放的時候都是在考慮國人的生命安全的問題來我們看一下可是呢我們總統府狹下成立的新單位全民認防衛社會任性委員會裡面總統清點的曹新成顧問以他的專業在社群網路上面發表評論他說\n\n10:11.740 --> 10:30.932\n從全民防衛熱性的觀點來看要取消颱風架因為如果繼續放颱風架以後全民都要進西中營進行勞改這明顯跟您剛剛的觀點是不一致的請問我們老百姓是要聽您的還是聽我們顧問的我想對任何個人的發言我們都表示尊重因為他是顧問啊\n\n10:33.123 --> 10:35.526\n國軍在太光演習遇到颱風的時候是如何因應的?\n\n10:48.624 --> 11:09.634\n我們事實上這一次也真的遇到颱風是的我們去年也遇到颱風是的那我們要試颱風的一個狀況就改成就變成轉換任務為救災那做一級開設啊是啊我們很支持所以我們雖然是遇到颱風那我們改成防災救災任務這也是我們一貫的傳統我也很支持\n\n11:10.174 --> 11:36.934\n但是呢這跟我們任性委員會的曹顧問的方向邏輯完全不一致對他來說轉成災害救災任務那是不是以後也要進集中營類似這樣的方式我覺得呢如果類似這樣子的顧問跌床架屋的說法反而呢會讓我們的國防任性所謂的全民國防任性產生更多的困擾那部長你知不知道任性委員會裡面總共有哪些顧問跟哪些委員\n\n11:39.095 --> 11:54.640\n我想我那天有參與開會但是我現在詳細的名單不記得了但是我要說明的是我想任何人都有他表達意見的一個自由那確實有很多國家是沒有颱風架這個概念我同意因為有些地方沒有颱風當然沒有颱風架這不廢話嗎\n\n11:56.300 --> 12:23.359\n但我想知道的是因為日本的緯度比較高所以日本的颱風對他們的影響是比較小的這個是有嗎有這是非常確定的你去問日本的專家日本的緯度比較高所以他的這個日代氣旋往上的時候日本最近好像受了很多颱風沒有你去問日本的颱風是比較小的那我另外要問再給我一點時間40萬名利這件事情請問法院依據是什麼\n\n12:24.781 --> 12:47.692\n四十萬民力這個有相關主要來自於民防法的相關的規定那民防法第二條告訴我們除了救災以外有沒有包含民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務的部分就這一個現行的民防法它現在的規範是如此是如此的所以暫時會否轉為民兵\n\n12:50.694 --> 12:51.394\n那要如何自衛?\n\n13:13.245 --> 13:33.476\n主要是在強調現在應該是講如何自救或者是能夠救人自救跟救人所以他要自己能夠自救然後同時如果他可以發展出像類似有EMT-1或是甚至EMT-2的那我們是不是在民防法裡面應該要寫得更清楚一點\n\n13:34.136 --> 13:55.349\n我想這個民法法的規範也已經相當久了啦,應該是可以來檢討。好,那我們最後一個問題喔。40萬名利是由誰來指揮?全社會任性防衛委員會、國防部、內政部警政署、民防指揮所、國安會。\n\n13:56.209 --> 14:13.803\n在這四個相關聯的部會裡面請問這40萬的名利在暫時是由誰來統一做指揮跟委員報告因為到了如果有任何緊急狀況的時候會成立中央聯合應變中心那基本上名利的部分是由內政部來主導來進行調度好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.304,"end":3.026,"text":"謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長請顧部長"},{"start":17.174,"end":28.427,"text":"部長好,我們剛才有提到美方的雷神採購但其實我們軍方跟雷神採購的裝備裡面我想詢問是否有一筆台幣182億元的愛國者三型PAC-3的飛彈重建建設案"},{"start":39.574,"end":47.57,"text":"這是一個檢測案。我想這個檢測案的內容主要是不是先…可不可以簡單說明?對,簡單說明。"},{"start":49.075,"end":69.593,"text":"報告委員我們這個愛三重建車案主要是愛國者飛彈它使用10年之後我們的導引斷件必須做更換來確保它可以發揮原本的效能所以它是一個維修費的案維修費用對不對但是呢根據今天媒體的報導喔國防部最早規劃呢這個採購案本來是整體的愛國者飛彈採購案是1791億餘元喔那在預定2021年的時候結案"},{"start":76.218,"end":93.617,"text":"那呢軍售結餘款本來應該要繳庫的但美方要求182億元結餘款不要繳庫那所以呢空軍的這個防空指揮部呢就擅自跟美方簽發了這個架書最後呢以說好買好的飛彈數量沒有買夠"},{"start":95.799,"end":122.721,"text":"用這筆錢來補買、修訂為愛二性能提升及採購愛三的續購案以補充原彈藥的不足數將全案延長到2027年結案請問是否有此事?這個是不實的所以今天媒體的報導是不實的消息從建設案是一個新政案新政案而且報立法院審議通過至於愛三的剩餘的結餘款是我們拿來徵購"},{"start":124.884,"end":128.775,"text":"這個徵購案也經過立法院審議通過所以兩個事情是不同的"},{"start":129.656,"end":151.062,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售價格情事及後續因應及針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍�"},{"start":154.403,"end":181.682,"text":"沒有所謂的空軍防炮指揮部先講後奏擅自與美方簽約空軍司令跟國防部長事先不知道就建案作業的事情這個程序上的瑕疵是有的有所以確定有這件事對這個當時這個也已經被糾正了被糾正了對但是事後補齊了相關的文件之後呢報立法院立法院也審查通過所以這182億元後來如何處理"},{"start":185.307,"end":196.536,"text":"這182議員就是邊按照這個相關的程序把它完整之後報到立法院,立法院也審議通過了。審議通過那如何懲處?相關的名單有多少人?應該有懲處啊。恐軍有沒有?"},{"start":199.378,"end":219.868,"text":"報告委員 這個案子向委員報告 這個案子國防部在一開始出現消息的時候我們就已經召開新聞記者會進行說明那接下來我們也到監察院來進行相關的調查跟詢問最後的懲處結果是如何的空軍副司令以下相關人員都受到懲處"},{"start":221.588,"end":225.509,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。"},{"start":240.314,"end":261.097,"text":"外界另外也很關注賴總統在8月份的時候在新進將裡面看到三軍統帥沒有立正好像不高興但其實外界說是總統府的一位女性官員請大家坐下所以導致的誤會想請問一下部長那位官員是誰?誰請大家坐下的?"},{"start":262.138,"end":285.544,"text":"跟委員報告我當時到場的時候並沒有看到那其他的新晉將領文你沒有去詢問瞭解這個狀況我瞭解請問是誰請大家先坐下來委員好這個一開始就是總統是好意希望能夠在進任典禮完之後辦一個茶會然後這個好意那個總統給我們的資訊是總統是誰給你的資訊是交際科"},{"start":288.965,"end":291.406,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧"},{"start":312.219,"end":337.729,"text":"我想并沒有：我的理解並沒有說要如何：因為這個是事先在移植的這個溝通上面可能有所不足所以並沒有說哪個專員就要當時現場在場坐下我是很疑惑就是說一個專員那他來溝通然後大家就覺得專員講的意見能夠代表總統那就坐下來了引發這一系列的誤會"},{"start":338.889,"end":363.904,"text":"所以請問不是郭雅惠發言人也不是辦公室主任陳奕霖兩位都不是我想剛剛您說明了剛才那個右邊這位知道是誰跟你們溝通的這兩位都不是吧我們確認一下而已前一個禮拜我們就在跟總統交際課做一個協調交際課的哪一位"},{"start":364.244,"end":366.245,"text":"所以說你們一早進去就先坐下了?"},{"start":385.098,"end":413.497,"text":"原本就是坐在裡面等總統所以說這個裡面的我們跟總統府這個溝通可能我們有疏失沒有特別去強調說總統府進來就要休息所以你們一走進來就坐下了沒有人跟你們說要坐下大家都先坐在裡面了然後總統府就直接走進來所以看到總統沒有站起來不是因為總統府的科員專員請你們說要坐下是你們自己決定的沒有這樣的就是說沒有看到有這樣的事情"},{"start":413.737,"end":414.438,"text":"我還有很多其他的問題要問"},{"start":432.2,"end":447.589,"text":"﹗最近颱風造成很多家園的損害我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色首先請教部長下面這幾句話您是否認同第一在颱風來襲時按照氣象數據提供的建議地方首長來"},{"start":449.33,"end":465.817,"text":"擁有放颱風架的決定權這是第一句第二、戰爭不分颱風影響與否為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢應該要取消颱風架請問部長你覺得第一種說法比較合理還是第二種說法比較合理"},{"start":468.809,"end":492.335,"text":"第一種是呢,颱風來襲的時候按照氣象署的數據提供的建議由地方首長來決定是否放颱風架第二種說法是戰爭不分颱風架影響與否因應兩岸可能發生的戰爭歧視情勢應該要取消颱風架這兩種說法第一種跟第二種部長您覺得哪一種說法比較有道理"},{"start":493.218,"end":494.139,"text":"所以你認為颱風價對於台灣來說是否有必要性嗎?"},{"start":516.781,"end":541.698,"text":"對我們國軍來講我們颱風來的時候可能對於可能的遭害我們都會做兵力的預置裝備裝備的一個預置然後我們也會一起開設你認為颱風架對於民眾對於如果沒有放颱風架的話那民眾在外面可能會有更多的風險對於國軍的救災行動來說會不會增加更多的難度跟風險跟人力的投入"},{"start":542.626,"end":559.303,"text":"我想我們對於是不是放颱風架這一點我還是在強調這不是國防部夜館的部分不是我能夠回答的沒有我問的是對國軍來說如果沒有颱風架那國軍會不會投入更多的資源因為沒有保護到人民的安全"},{"start":561.402,"end":587.893,"text":"國軍就是投入救災這個是我們的中心任務之一所以我不知道委員問的意思是說有真的颱風來了然後沒有放假還是說沒有颱風來了然後放假真的有颱風來了沒有放假就是真的颱風來了不放假這件事情"},{"start":588.715,"end":609.9,"text":"那真的台灣來沒有放假那我想各地方政府首長在決定要不要放的時候都是在考慮國人的生命安全的問題來我們看一下可是呢我們總統府狹下成立的新單位全民認防衛社會任性委員會裡面總統清點的曹新成顧問以他的專業在社群網路上面發表評論他說"},{"start":611.74,"end":630.932,"text":"從全民防衛熱性的觀點來看要取消颱風架因為如果繼續放颱風架以後全民都要進西中營進行勞改這明顯跟您剛剛的觀點是不一致的請問我們老百姓是要聽您的還是聽我們顧問的我想對任何個人的發言我們都表示尊重因為他是顧問啊"},{"start":633.123,"end":635.526,"text":"國軍在太光演習遇到颱風的時候是如何因應的?"},{"start":648.624,"end":669.634,"text":"我們事實上這一次也真的遇到颱風是的我們去年也遇到颱風是的那我們要試颱風的一個狀況就改成就變成轉換任務為救災那做一級開設啊是啊我們很支持所以我們雖然是遇到颱風那我們改成防災救災任務這也是我們一貫的傳統我也很支持"},{"start":670.174,"end":696.934,"text":"但是呢這跟我們任性委員會的曹顧問的方向邏輯完全不一致對他來說轉成災害救災任務那是不是以後也要進集中營類似這樣的方式我覺得呢如果類似這樣子的顧問跌床架屋的說法反而呢會讓我們的國防任性所謂的全民國防任性產生更多的困擾那部長你知不知道任性委員會裡面總共有哪些顧問跟哪些委員"},{"start":699.095,"end":714.64,"text":"我想我那天有參與開會但是我現在詳細的名單不記得了但是我要說明的是我想任何人都有他表達意見的一個自由那確實有很多國家是沒有颱風架這個概念我同意因為有些地方沒有颱風當然沒有颱風架這不廢話嗎"},{"start":716.3,"end":743.359,"text":"但我想知道的是因為日本的緯度比較高所以日本的颱風對他們的影響是比較小的這個是有嗎有這是非常確定的你去問日本的專家日本的緯度比較高所以他的這個日代氣旋往上的時候日本最近好像受了很多颱風沒有你去問日本的颱風是比較小的那我另外要問再給我一點時間40萬名利這件事情請問法院依據是什麼"},{"start":744.781,"end":767.692,"text":"四十萬民力這個有相關主要來自於民防法的相關的規定那民防法第二條告訴我們除了救災以外有沒有包含民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務的部分就這一個現行的民防法它現在的規範是如此是如此的所以暫時會否轉為民兵"},{"start":770.694,"end":771.394,"text":"那要如何自衛?"},{"start":793.245,"end":813.476,"text":"主要是在強調現在應該是講如何自救或者是能夠救人自救跟救人所以他要自己能夠自救然後同時如果他可以發展出像類似有EMT-1或是甚至EMT-2的那我們是不是在民防法裡面應該要寫得更清楚一點"},{"start":814.136,"end":835.349,"text":"我想這個民法法的規範也已經相當久了啦,應該是可以來檢討。好,那我們最後一個問題喔。40萬名利是由誰來指揮?全社會任性防衛委員會、國防部、內政部警政署、民防指揮所、國安會。"},{"start":836.209,"end":853.803,"text":"在這四個相關聯的部會裡面請問這40萬的名利在暫時是由誰來統一做指揮跟委員報告因為到了如果有任何緊急狀況的時候會成立中央聯合應變中心那基本上名利的部分是由內政部來主導來進行調度好 謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:37:13 - 10:51:32","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長報告一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢。二、「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢。【機密】）","id":155129,"gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時37分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。我們剛才有提到美方的雷神採購，但其實我們軍方跟雷神採購的裝備裡面，我想詢問是否有一筆臺幣182億元的愛國者三型（PAC3）的飛彈重鑑測案？"],["顧部長立雄：這是一個鑑測案，我想這個鑑測案的內容主要是不是先請……"],["徐委員巧芯：可不可以簡單說明？"],["顧部長立雄：對，簡單說明一下。"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，這個愛三重鑑測案主要是愛國者飛彈使用10年之後我們的導引斷件必須做更換，來確保它可以發揮原本的效能，所以它是一個維修費的案子。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，維修費用，對不對？"],["黃司長文啓：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是根據今天媒體的報導，國防部最早規劃這個整體的愛國者飛彈採購案本來是一千七百九十一億餘元，預訂2021年的時候結案，軍售結餘款本來應該要繳庫的，但美方要求182億元結餘款不要繳庫，所以空軍防砲指揮部就擅自跟美方簽發了價書，最後以說好買好的飛彈數量沒有買夠，用這筆錢來補買，修訂為愛二性能提升及採購愛三的續購案，以補充原彈藥的不足數，將全案延長到2027年結案，請問是否有此事？"],["顧部長立雄：這個是不實的……"],["徐委員巧芯：不實的，所以今天媒體的報導是不實的消息？"],["顧部長立雄：重鑑測案是一個新增案，而且報立法院審議通過，至於愛三的賸餘結餘款是我們拿來增購，這個增購案也經過審議通過，所以兩個事情是不同的，一個是愛三的增購案是用愛三賸餘的結餘款去增購，然後另外的重鑑測案是另外一個新增的軍購案，這兩個是不同的……"],["徐委員巧芯：兩個案子嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：沒有將賸餘的結餘款挪作重鑑測案這樣的事情存在。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，所以愛國者三型飛彈重鑑測案的182億元沒有所謂的空軍防砲指揮部先斬後奏，擅自與美方簽約，空軍司令跟國防部長事先不知道重鑑測案作業的事情？"],["顧部長立雄：這個程序上的瑕疵是有的，也就是說……"],["徐委員巧芯：有，所以確定有這件事？"],["顧部長立雄：對，當時也已經被糾正了……"],["徐委員巧芯：被糾正了，請問後續的……"],["顧部長立雄：對，但事後補齊了相關文件之後報立法院，立法院也審查通過，所以程序……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以這182億元後來如何處理？"],["顧部長立雄：這182億元就是按照相關的程序把它完整之後報到立法院，立法院也審議通過了。"],["徐委員巧芯：審議通過，那如何懲處？相關的名單有多少人？"],["顧部長立雄：應該有懲處……空軍要不要……"],["黃司長文啓：向委員報告，這個案子國防部在一開始出現消息的時候，我們就已經召開新聞記者會進行說明，接下來我們也到監察院接受相關的調查跟詢問，所以從……"],["徐委員巧芯：最後的懲處結果是如何的？"],["黃司長文啓：空軍副司令以下相關人員都受到懲處。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，瞭解。"],["黃司長文啓：後續我們再按照程序把預算進行編列。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，我們希望雷神相關的案子其實都應該要更積極主動地來瞭解，不然的話，每次如果遇到雷神公司都出現這樣的情況的話，我想大家是沒有辦法能夠理解的。","外界另外也很關注賴總統針對8月份的時候新進將領們看到三軍統帥沒有立正，好像不高興，但其實外界說是總統府的一位女性官員請大家坐下所以導致的誤會。想請問一下部長，那位官員是誰？誰請大家坐下的？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我當時到場的時候並沒有看到。"],["徐委員巧芯：那其他的新進將領們，你沒有去詢問、瞭解這個狀況？"],["顧部長立雄：我瞭解……要不要請……"],["徐委員巧芯：請問是誰請大家先坐下？"],["劉次長沛智：委員好。一開始總統是好意，希望能夠在晉任典禮完之後辦一個茶會，然後這個好意，總統府給我們的資訊是在……"],["徐委員巧芯：總統府的誰給你的資訊？"],["劉次長沛智：是交際科。"],["徐委員巧芯：交際科的誰？"],["劉次長沛智：對，他們一位女性的專員。"],["徐委員巧芯：專員？一個專員跟你們講，你們就坐下來了？"],["劉次長沛智：他們跟我們協調是說在一個溫馨的場合，然後……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有嘛，我是想問是誰請你們坐下來？誰告訴你們是一個溫馨的場合，大家可以坐下的？"],["劉次長沛智：那個專員名字我沒有特別去記，但是……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以是專員的層級，他的職等是幾職等的？"],["顧部長立雄：我的理解並沒有說要如何，因為這個是事先在儀節的溝通上面可能有所不足，所以並沒有說哪個專員叫當時現場在場坐下這樣子。"],["徐委員巧芯：我是很疑惑，一個專員他來溝通，然後大家就覺得專員講的意見能夠代表總統，那就坐下來了，引發這一系列的誤會。所以請問，不是郭雅慧發言人，也不是辦公室主任陳羿伶，兩位都不是？"],["顧部長立雄：我想剛剛已經說明了，並沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：剛才右邊這位知道是誰是跟你們溝通的，這兩位都不是嘛？我們確認一下而已。"],["劉次長沛智：跟委員報告，我們在茶會前一個禮拜……"],["徐委員巧芯：前一個禮拜……"],["劉次長沛智：我們就在跟總統府交際科做一個協調……"],["徐委員巧芯：交際科的哪一位？"],["劉次長沛智：就是那位專員，我沒有特別去記他的名字。然後協調的結果就是，那是一個溫馨的場合，所以我們國防部沒有人進去，總統府交際科也沒有人進去，就是與會的那31員晉任將官在裡面，所以這個溝通的過程……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你們一走進去就先坐下了？"],["劉次長沛智：原本就是坐在裡面等總統，所以這個裡面我們跟總統府的溝通可能我們有疏失，沒有特別去強調總統進來的時候要先起立……"],["徐委員巧芯：喔，所以你們一走進來就坐下了，沒有人跟你們說要坐下？"],["劉次長沛智：對，大家都先坐裡面了，總統就直接走進來，然後就開始做一個……"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，所以看到總統沒有站起來，不是因為總統府的科員、專員跟你們說要坐下？"],["劉次長沛智：對，沒有、沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：是你們自己決定的？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有、沒有，沒有這樣子，就是沒有看到有這樣的事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，所以是你們自己決定的？"],["顧部長立雄：應該是說，雙方對於儀程的這個，第一次辦這個茶會，對於儀程的進行，或者流程的進行，沒有一個充分……"],["徐委員巧芯：這和我跟軍人的了解非常的不一樣。好，因為我還有很多其他的問題要問，最近颱風造成很多家園的損害，我們的國軍在救災當中更是關鍵的角色。首先請教部長，下面這幾句話您是否認同？第一，在颱風來襲時，按照氣象署數據提供的建議，地方首長擁有放颱風假的決定權，這是第一句。第二，戰爭不分颱風影響與否，為因應兩岸之間隨時可能發生的戰爭情勢，應該要取消颱風假。請問部長，你覺得第一種說法比較合理，還是第二種說法比較合理？"],["顧部長立雄：您說……"],["徐委員巧芯：第一種是颱風來襲的時候，按照氣象署的數據提供的建議，由地方首長來決定是否放颱風假。第二種說法是戰爭不分颱風假影響與否，因應兩岸可能發生的戰爭情勢，應該要取消颱風假，這兩種說法，第一種跟第二種，部長，您覺得哪一種說法比較有道理？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我沒有辦法回答在不是我業管的部分……"],["徐委員巧芯：當然是啊，因為漢光演習的時候也會碰到颱風啊。"],["顧部長立雄：我們只能說颱風來的時候，我們會視中央災害應變中心的開設，我們得同步開設一級的應變中心，然後……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你認為颱風假對於臺灣來說是否有必要性嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：對我們國軍來講，颱風來的時候，對於可能的災害，我們都會做兵力的預置、裝備，裝備的一個預置，然後我們也會一級開設。"],["徐委員巧芯：那你認為颱風假對於民眾，如果沒有放颱風假的話，民眾在外面可能會有更多的風險，對於國軍的救災行動來說，會不會增加更多的難度、風險，跟人力的投入？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們對於是不是放颱風假這一點，我還是再強調，這不是國防部業管的部分，不是我能夠回答的，國軍……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有，我問的是對國軍來說，如果沒有颱風假，那國軍會不會投入更多的資源，因為沒有保護到人民的安全？"],["顧部長立雄：國軍就是投入救災，這個是我們的中心任務之一嘛，所以應該，我不知道委員問的意思是有真的颱風來，然後沒有放假……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，真的颱風來，沒有放假。"],["顧部長立雄：還是說沒有颱風來，然後放假，因為我不太清楚。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是，是真的有颱風來，沒有放假，就是真的颱風來了不放假這件事情。"],["顧部長立雄：真的颱風來，沒有放假，我想各地方政府首長在決定要不要放的時候，都是在考慮國人的生命安全問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒錯！來，我們看一下，可是呢，我們總統府轄下成立的新單位──全社會防衛韌性委員會裡面，總統欽點的曹興誠顧問，以他的專業在社群網路上面發表評論，他說從全民防衛韌性的觀點來看要取消颱風假，因為如果繼續放颱風假，以後全民都要進集中營進行勞改，這明顯跟您剛剛的觀點是不一致的。請問我們老百姓是要聽您的，還是聽我們顧問的？"],["顧部長立雄：我想對任何個人的發言，我們都表示尊重。"],["徐委員巧芯：但他是顧問啊！"],["顧部長立雄：我想他是一個民間人士，對……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以他又是民間人士了？"],["顧部長立雄：對，他本來就一直是民間人士啊，不管怎麼樣，他有他個人的意見……"],["徐委員巧芯：那我們國軍在漢光演習時遇到颱風的時候是如何因應的？"],["顧部長立雄：我們事實上這一次也真的遇到颱風。"],["徐委員巧芯：是的。"],["顧部長立雄：我們去年也遇到颱風。"],["徐委員巧芯：是的。"],["顧部長立雄：我們要視颱風的一個狀況，就變成轉換任務為救災。"],["徐委員巧芯：對嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：做一級開設，這也是沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：是啊，我們很支持，所以我們雖然是遇到颱風，我們改成防災救災任務，這也是我們一貫的傳統，我也很支持，但是這跟我們韌性委員會曹顧問的方向、邏輯完全不一致，對他來說，轉成災害救災任務，那是不是以後也要進集中營，類似這樣的方式？我覺得如果類似這樣子的顧問疊床架屋的說法，反而會讓我們的國防韌性，所謂的全民國防韌性產生更多的困擾，部長，你知不知道韌性委員會裡面總共有哪些顧問跟哪些委員？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我那天有參與開會，但是我現在詳細的名單不記得了。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，沒關係。"],["顧部長立雄：但是我要說明的是，我想任何人都有他表達意見的一個自由，確實也有很多國家是沒有颱風假這個概念的。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，表達意見的自由，我同意，因為有些地方沒有颱風，當然沒有颱風假啊，這不是廢話嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：不是，像日本就沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：因為日本的緯度比較高，所以日本的颱風對他們的影響是比較小的，這個是……"],["顧部長立雄：有嗎？最近好像……"],["徐委員巧芯：有，這是非常確定的，你去問問日本的專家，日本的緯度比較高，所以它的熱帶氣旋往上的時候，颱風是比較小的。"],["顧部長立雄：日本最近好像受了很多颱風的……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有、沒有、沒有，你去問，日本的颱風是比較小的。","我另外要問，再給我一點時間，40萬民力這件事情，請問法源依據是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：40萬民力，這個有相關主要來自於民防法的相關規定。"],["徐委員巧芯：法源依據？民防法第二條告訴我們，除了救災以外，有沒有包含民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務的部分？"],["顧部長立雄：就現行的民防法，它現在的規範是如此。"],["徐委員巧芯：是如此的，所以戰時會否轉為民兵？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，因為我們現在沒有讓人民擁有武器的這個權力。"],["徐委員巧芯：那在戰爭時期的支援軍事勤務的定義是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：就是比如說，我們有一些民物力的需要，有一些需要動員……"],["徐委員巧芯：那要如何自衛？民間自衛跟支援軍事勤務。"],["顧部長立雄：我想自衛主要是在強調現在應該是講如何自救，或者是能夠救人，所以他們會……"],["徐委員巧芯：自衛跟自救？"],["顧部長立雄：自救跟救人。"],["徐委員巧芯：自救跟救人？"],["顧部長立雄：救人，所以他要自己能夠自救，然後同時如果他可以發展出像類似有EMT1，或者甚至EMT2的能力的話，就可以救人。"],["徐委員巧芯：那我們是不是應該在民防法裡面要寫得更清楚一點？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個民防法的規範也已經相當久了啦，應該是可以來檢討。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，最後一個問題，40萬民力是由誰來指揮？全動署！不是全動署，對不起！全社會韌性防衛委員會、國防部、內政部、警政署、民防指揮所、國安會，在這四個相關聯的部會裡面，請問這40萬的民力，在戰時是由誰來統一做指揮？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，因為到了如果有任何緊急狀況的時候，會成立中央聯合應變中心，基本上民力的部分是由內政部來主導、來進行調度.。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，部長請回。","接下來請王定宇召委上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","speakers":["林憶君","黃仁","沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","徐巧芯","王定宇","林楚茵","陳永康","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林國成","黃國昌","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張啓楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告：一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢；二、\n「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢【機\n密】","agenda_id":"1137901_00005"}}}