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\"懼\"}]}, {\"start\": 512.548, \"end\": 535.214, \"text\": \"我相信我們後來還會有很多的會議相當多的會議是會有這樣子不同年齡層的這個學生代表來參與那這一次的會議上其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助那為什麼你們沒有在這個會議的裡面你們友善盡這樣子協助的責任你們在會議上扮演的角色或者說針對這些不當的舉動你們有沒有制止\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 512.548, \"end\": 512.668, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 512.668, \"end\": 512.868, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 512.868, \"end\": 513.228, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 513.228, \"end\": 513.568, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 513.568, \"end\": 514.349, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 514.349, \"end\": 514.509, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 514.509, \"end\": 514.729, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 514.729, \"end\": 514.889, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 514.889, \"end\": 515.549, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 530.513, \"end\": 530.733, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 530.733, \"end\": 531.133, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 531.133, \"end\": 531.333, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"扮\", \"start\": 531.333, \"end\": 531.453, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 531.453, \"end\": 531.573, \"score\": 0.532}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 531.573, \"end\": 531.713, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 531.713, \"end\": 531.973, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 531.973, \"end\": 532.313, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 532.313, \"end\": 532.413, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 532.413, \"end\": 533.413, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 533.413, \"end\": 533.653, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 533.653, \"end\": 534.054, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 534.054, \"end\": 534.514, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 534.514, \"end\": 534.534, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 534.534, \"end\": 534.614, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 534.614, \"end\": 534.734, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 534.734, \"end\": 535.014, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 535.014, \"end\": 535.194, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 535.194, \"end\": 535.214, \"score\": 0.091}]}, {\"start\": 537.184, \"end\": 564.026, \"text\": \"在會議的過程中除了前排還有相關的顧問大概有三位到六位包含會議議程的顧問包含CRC的顧問大概都在附近那在零星的地方有特定的因為那個場域比較大是一個活動中心那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問那零星的地方以及會後的在網路上的發言我們剛好有蒐集到就會直接給他們\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 537.184, \"end\": 538.085, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 538.085, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 559.283, \"end\": 559.843, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 559.843, \"end\": 560.383, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 560.383, \"end\": 560.804, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 560.804, \"end\": 560.944, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 560.944, \"end\": 561.124, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 561.124, \"end\": 561.504, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 561.504, \"end\": 562.005, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 562.005, \"end\": 562.165, \"score\": 0.56}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 562.165, \"end\": 562.365, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 562.365, \"end\": 562.665, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"蒐\"}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 562.665, \"end\": 562.765, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 562.765, \"end\": 563.146, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 563.146, \"end\": 563.646, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 563.646, \"end\": 563.806, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 563.806, \"end\": 564.006, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 564.006, \"end\": 564.026, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}]}, {\"start\": 564.767, \"end\": 592.425, \"text\": \"做尊重多元的這種算是要求也請大家一起努力啦謝謝當然我們尊重多元啦尊重各位與會代表他們的發言權以及他們的權益以及他本身他們所代表的身份但是在會議裡面我們是不是也應該要說其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同的年紀的學生來參與就是希望說請聽學生的意見那尤其說這是攸關於課綱的這個制定喔那\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 564.767, \"end\": 565.107, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 565.107, \"end\": 565.327, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 565.327, \"end\": 565.668, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 565.668, \"end\": 565.868, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 565.868, \"end\": 566.108, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.108, \"end\": 566.888, 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00:00:56,684\n新來的登記的部分是百分之二十點七六包九乳是七十五點七七涵蓋豆漿是三點四七那本席的選區彰化縣是落農大縣但是竟然選擇鮮乳的比例也只有百分之十四部長你覺得這是最主要原因是什麼我想這個部分我們針對兩個部分來討論我先請教農業部\n\n3\n00:01:01,525 --> 00:01:17,026\n市長您覺得說我們的冷鏈系統是不是會跟不上就是我們這個現在要配送鮮乳的這個需求讓縣市政府、讓家長、讓學校會覺得說在鮮乳的保存上有食安的疑慮\n\n4\n00:01:18,587 --> 00:01:39,439\n謝謝委員提醒,因為其實在很多縣市有一些縣型就已經在做鮮乳配送,所以這個部分其實是需要有配套,您說的沒錯那第二點就是說,其實還是要在跟各縣市下訂的時候,我們有在說,但是我還會持續在說就是說,如果當場是沒有冷藏設備的話,其實廠商會提供保冷袋\n\n5\n00:01:40,279 --> 00:01:41,820\n市長,在針對能鏈系統的部分,其實我國在生鮮的農產品的配送以及生乳的運送這個技術應該是相當的成熟\n\n6\n00:02:00,012 --> 00:02:07,403\n如果確實說是在偏遠地區他有一些難以配勝的困境才會選擇保久爐一般我們會這樣子想那農業部這邊你們覺得以你們比較專業的看法說是不是是因為冷鏈系統的關係所以選擇鮮爐的比例會比較低\n\n7\n00:02:15,895 --> 00:02:34,212\n我想在學校或縣市政府這邊應該是有他考量的問題那我想我們會再次再次跟縣市政府說對於沒有冷藏設施的部分我們是可以提供保冷袋讓他至少可以保冷至少兩個小時以上這樣子的時候其實對於\n\n8\n00:02:35,373 --> 00:03:00,195\n在學童要飲用的安全上面是有比較的保障是謝謝次長那我這邊請教教育部部長其實嘉義縣跟雲林縣在我們班班有鮮奶的政策之前都有配送學童鮮乳這個經驗甚至雲林縣的學童飲用鮮乳已經超過5年也沒有發生有食安的問題所以本席這邊要請教部長這個部分我們是不是可以請雲林縣來分享他們相關的經驗來提供給其他縣市來參考\n\n9\n00:03:03,375 --> 00:03:14,190\n謝謝委員的提醒,確實在我們這個班班有鮮奶之前,雲林、嘉義本來就已經都有在提供給縣市的學童核鮮奶\n\n10\n00:03:18,786 --> 00:03:24,750\n我想他們的經驗確實也是我們未來可以來所以這邊是不是請教育部裡面也可以積極了解之後來協助其他的地方縣市來提供給他們參考降低就是在鮮乳保存上這個食安的疑慮其實本席這邊要強調就是說班班有鮮乳是希望說我們要提供給孩童更全面的營養\n\n11\n00:03:40,119 --> 00:03:46,823\n有這樣的政策的美意希望不要打折尤其在本期的選區福星鄉是我國弱農重鎮我們全國佔牛乳的產量是全國第二但是我們縣裡面登記的這個表格看起來對鮮乳的需求這麼低而且選擇薄酒乳的這個需求比較高讓我也覺得十分的疑惑\n\n12\n00:04:00,049 --> 00:04:03,311\n那如果說我們彰化縣是沒有配送的經驗本身認為說也應該向其他縣市來學習所以希望說如果是因為有這個能力系統及配送問題而沒有經驗其實不能就因為這樣不去嘗試我是希望從教育部跟農業部這邊應該也要善盡協助的責任\n\n13\n00:04:18,138 --> 00:04:20,801\n協助沒有經驗的縣市政府就向其他有相關經驗的縣市學習讓我們的孩童可以有更全面的營養是我們每一位大人的責任所以說如果我們的政策有不夠細緻的地方我們可以再加強我們可以再檢討然後再來改善\n\n14\n00:04:36,940 --> 00:04:51,861\n地方縣市政府沒有經驗我希望我們農業部跟教育部就來協助讓我們一起以孩子的健康為出發點一起努力喔好那這個部分農業部你們可以先請回我接下來要請教我們部長關於老舊校舍的問題\n\n15\n00:04:52,842 --> 00:04:53,563\n請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席\n\n16\n00:05:24,283 --> 00:05:46,339\n根文報告我們在這個明年裡邊大概有27億1月4年會有27億的這個對老舊教室上的一些整修這個改建大概我們事實上是有對各縣市的這些國中小有一些老舊的建築物但是部長您所謂的27億是針對所有的老舊校舍\n\n17\n00:05:50,237 --> 00:06:19,486\n是的本席是理解說教育部因為你們有考量訓期以及其他校舍也有整修建的規劃這個我理解喔但是像這些活動中心老舊的活動中心他們有屋頂漏水、牆面軍墊還是說瓷磚脫落以及地板破損這些問題其實對孩子們在活動中心裡面活動還是辦活動的時候學校辦活動嘛孩子都在這個這樣子的建築空間裡面其實真的是有安全的疑慮喔所以我真的要再次跟部長您強調就是說針對老舊活動中心的修繩\n\n18\n00:06:19,906 --> 00:06:22,227\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就«班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形»進行專題\n\n19\n00:06:41,315 --> 00:06:43,998\n我們教育部為了後續課綱研修的作業也領選了新一屆的課審會學生代表\n\n20\n00:07:00,555 --> 00:07:09,232\n那在8月底的時候召開遴選委員會但是有愉快的學生反應說其實會議的狀況不是很理想而且疑似還有言語霸凌的狀況發生部長您知道這個狀況嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:16,089 --> 00:07:44,447\n有一點細節給委員部長他也知道那這個在八月份的時候開會大概有一件事是孩子們這些代表們自己要去選出他們的代表那主席也是他們選的那會後有這一些言論我們也去了解關切以及表達在正式的選擇的時候選舉的時候大家在互動的過程中要尊重大家彼此的意見大概都有在處理\n\n22\n00:07:45,428 --> 00:08:04,467\n這就是我今天所要說的其實在教育部對於我們這些相關的會議我們應該要保障各年齡的發言權以及我們應該制定學生代表的會議職域在這個會議上有一些比較年長的學生代表不斷的質疑年紀比較小的這些代表來質疑他們是不是有具備參與會議的資格\n\n23\n00:08:06,089 --> 00:08:30,587\n甚至在會議上都會以小孩、小屁孩這樣的字樣來嘲諷年紀比較小的這些學生代表然後在投票的階段因為投票的結果沒有很滿意甚至還會叫囂、拍桌這樣子不斷的質疑年紀較小的這些學生代表而且會後還會有針對這些年紀比較小的學生進行騷擾跟拍照的動作讓他們這些年紀比較輕的學生心生恐懼\n\n24\n00:08:32,548 --> 00:08:55,214\n我相信我們後來還會有很多的會議相當多的會議是會有這樣子不同年齡層的這個學生代表來參與那這一次的會議上其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助那為什麼你們沒有在這個會議的裡面你們友善盡這樣子協助的責任你們在會議上扮演的角色或者說針對這些不當的舉動你們有沒有制止\n\n25\n00:08:57,184 --> 00:09:24,026\n在會議的過程中除了前排還有相關的顧問大概有三位到六位包含會議議程的顧問包含CRC的顧問大概都在附近那在零星的地方有特定的因為那個場域比較大是一個活動中心那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問那零星的地方以及會後的在網路上的發言我們剛好有蒐集到就會直接給他們\n\n26\n00:09:24,767 --> 00:09:52,425\n做尊重多元的這種算是要求也請大家一起努力啦謝謝當然我們尊重多元啦尊重各位與會代表他們的發言權以及他們的權益以及他本身他們所代表的身份但是在會議裡面我們是不是也應該要說其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同的年紀的學生來參與就是希望說請聽學生的意見那尤其說這是攸關於課綱的這個制定喔那\n\n27\n00:09:52,845 --> 00:09:52,885\n主席\n\n28\n00:10:22,705 --> 00:10:28,290\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6682\t14527\t謝謝主席,請教育部鄭部長以及農業部的杜長次好,有請鄭部長跟杜次長部長早安,針對今天的專報,班班有鮮奶及老舊校舍的整建首先我們先來看一下關於班班有鮮奶的需求數據依據全國的需求表來看\n36400\t56684\t新來的登記的部分是百分之二十點七六包九乳是七十五點七七涵蓋豆漿是三點四七那本席的選區彰化縣是落農大縣但是竟然選擇鮮乳的比例也只有百分之十四部長你覺得這是最主要原因是什麼我想這個部分我們針對兩個部分來討論我先請教農業部\n61525\t77026\t市長您覺得說我們的冷鏈系統是不是會跟不上就是我們這個現在要配送鮮乳的這個需求讓縣市政府、讓家長、讓學校會覺得說在鮮乳的保存上有食安的疑慮\n78587\t99439\t謝謝委員提醒,因為其實在很多縣市有一些縣型就已經在做鮮乳配送,所以這個部分其實是需要有配套,您說的沒錯那第二點就是說,其實還是要在跟各縣市下訂的時候,我們有在說,但是我還會持續在說就是說,如果當場是沒有冷藏設備的話,其實廠商會提供保冷袋\n100279\t101820\t市長,在針對能鏈系統的部分,其實我國在生鮮的農產品的配送以及生乳的運送這個技術應該是相當的成熟\n120012\t127403\t如果確實說是在偏遠地區他有一些難以配勝的困境才會選擇保久爐一般我們會這樣子想那農業部這邊你們覺得以你們比較專業的看法說是不是是因為冷鏈系統的關係所以選擇鮮爐的比例會比較低\n135895\t154212\t我想在學校或縣市政府這邊應該是有他考量的問題那我想我們會再次再次跟縣市政府說對於沒有冷藏設施的部分我們是可以提供保冷袋讓他至少可以保冷至少兩個小時以上這樣子的時候其實對於\n155373\t180195\t在學童要飲用的安全上面是有比較的保障是謝謝次長那我這邊請教教育部部長其實嘉義縣跟雲林縣在我們班班有鮮奶的政策之前都有配送學童鮮乳這個經驗甚至雲林縣的學童飲用鮮乳已經超過5年也沒有發生有食安的問題所以本席這邊要請教部長這個部分我們是不是可以請雲林縣來分享他們相關的經驗來提供給其他縣市來參考\n183375\t194190\t謝謝委員的提醒,確實在我們這個班班有鮮奶之前,雲林、嘉義本來就已經都有在提供給縣市的學童核鮮奶\n198786\t204750\t我想他們的經驗確實也是我們未來可以來所以這邊是不是請教育部裡面也可以積極了解之後來協助其他的地方縣市來提供給他們參考降低就是在鮮乳保存上這個食安的疑慮其實本席這邊要強調就是說班班有鮮乳是希望說我們要提供給孩童更全面的營養\n220119\t226823\t有這樣的政策的美意希望不要打折尤其在本期的選區福星鄉是我國弱農重鎮我們全國佔牛乳的產量是全國第二但是我們縣裡面登記的這個表格看起來對鮮乳的需求這麼低而且選擇薄酒乳的這個需求比較高讓我也覺得十分的疑惑\n240049\t243311\t那如果說我們彰化縣是沒有配送的經驗本身認為說也應該向其他縣市來學習所以希望說如果是因為有這個能力系統及配送問題而沒有經驗其實不能就因為這樣不去嘗試我是希望從教育部跟農業部這邊應該也要善盡協助的責任\n258138\t260801\t協助沒有經驗的縣市政府就向其他有相關經驗的縣市學習讓我們的孩童可以有更全面的營養是我們每一位大人的責任所以說如果我們的政策有不夠細緻的地方我們可以再加強我們可以再檢討然後再來改善\n276940\t291861\t地方縣市政府沒有經驗我希望我們農業部跟教育部就來協助讓我們一起以孩子的健康為出發點一起努力喔好那這個部分農業部你們可以先請回我接下來要請教我們部長關於老舊校舍的問題\n292842\t293563\t請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席\n324283\t346339\t根文報告我們在這個明年裡邊大概有27億1月4年會有27億的這個對老舊教室上的一些整修這個改建大概我們事實上是有對各縣市的這些國中小有一些老舊的建築物但是部長您所謂的27億是針對所有的老舊校舍\n350237\t379486\t是的本席是理解說教育部因為你們有考量訓期以及其他校舍也有整修建的規劃這個我理解喔但是像這些活動中心老舊的活動中心他們有屋頂漏水、牆面軍墊還是說瓷磚脫落以及地板破損這些問題其實對孩子們在活動中心裡面活動還是辦活動的時候學校辦活動嘛孩子都在這個這樣子的建築空間裡面其實真的是有安全的疑慮喔所以我真的要再次跟部長您強調就是說針對老舊活動中心的修繩\n379906\t382227\t二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就 «班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形»進行專題\n401315\t403998\t我們教育部為了後續課綱研修的作業也領選了新一屆的課審會學生代表\n420555\t429232\t那在8月底的時候召開遴選委員會但是有愉快的學生反應說其實會議的狀況不是很理想而且疑似還有言語霸凌的狀況發生部長您知道這個狀況嗎?\n436089\t464447\t有一點細節給委員部長他也知道那這個在八月份的時候開會大概有一件事是孩子們這些代表們自己要去選出他們的代表那主席也是他們選的那會後有這一些言論我們也去了解關切以及表達在正式的選擇的時候選舉的時候大家在互動的過程中要尊重大家彼此的意見大概都有在處理\n465428\t484467\t這就是我今天所要說的其實在教育部對於我們這些相關的會議我們應該要保障各年齡的發言權以及我們應該制定學生代表的會議職域在這個會議上有一些比較年長的學生代表不斷的質疑年紀比較小的這些代表來質疑他們是不是有具備參與會議的資格\n486089\t510587\t甚至在會議上都會以小孩、小屁孩這樣的字樣來嘲諷年紀比較小的這些學生代表然後在投票的階段因為投票的結果沒有很滿意甚至還會叫囂、拍桌這樣子不斷的質疑年紀較小的這些學生代表而且會後還會有針對這些年紀比較小的學生進行騷擾跟拍照的動作讓他們這些年紀比較輕的學生心生恐懼\n512548\t535214\t我相信我們後來還會有很多的會議相當多的會議是會有這樣子不同年齡層的這個學生代表來參與那這一次的會議上其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助那為什麼你們沒有在這個會議的裡面你們友善盡這樣子協助的責任你們在會議上扮演的角色或者說針對這些不當的舉動你們有沒有制止\n537184\t564026\t在會議的過程中除了前排還有相關的顧問大概有三位到六位包含會議議程的顧問包含CRC的顧問大概都在附近那在零星的地方有特定的因為那個場域比較大是一個活動中心那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問那零星的地方以及會後的在網路上的發言我們剛好有蒐集到就會直接給他們\n564767\t592425\t做尊重多元的這種算是要求也請大家一起努力啦謝謝當然我們尊重多元啦尊重各位與會代表他們的發言權以及他們的權益以及他本身他們所代表的身份但是在會議裡面我們是不是也應該要說其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同的年紀的學生來參與就是希望說請聽學生的意見那尤其說這是攸關於課綱的這個制定喔那\n592845\t592885\t主席\n622705\t628290\t二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席,請教育部鄭部長以及農業部的杜長次好,有請鄭部長跟杜次長部長早安,針對今天的專報,班班有鮮奶及老舊校舍的整建首先我們先來看一下關於班班有鮮奶的需求數據依據全國的需求表來看\n新來的登記的部分是百分之二十點七六包九乳是七十五點七七涵蓋豆漿是三點四七那本席的選區彰化縣是落農大縣但是竟然選擇鮮乳的比例也只有百分之十四部長你覺得這是最主要原因是什麼我想這個部分我們針對兩個部分來討論我先請教農業部\n市長您覺得說我們的冷鏈系統是不是會跟不上就是我們這個現在要配送鮮乳的這個需求讓縣市政府、讓家長、讓學校會覺得說在鮮乳的保存上有食安的疑慮\n謝謝委員提醒,因為其實在很多縣市有一些縣型就已經在做鮮乳配送,所以這個部分其實是需要有配套,您說的沒錯那第二點就是說,其實還是要在跟各縣市下訂的時候,我們有在說,但是我還會持續在說就是說,如果當場是沒有冷藏設備的話,其實廠商會提供保冷袋\n市長,在針對能鏈系統的部分,其實我國在生鮮的農產品的配送以及生乳的運送這個技術應該是相當的成熟\n如果確實說是在偏遠地區他有一些難以配勝的困境才會選擇保久爐一般我們會這樣子想那農業部這邊你們覺得以你們比較專業的看法說是不是是因為冷鏈系統的關係所以選擇鮮爐的比例會比較低\n我想在學校或縣市政府這邊應該是有他考量的問題那我想我們會再次再次跟縣市政府說對於沒有冷藏設施的部分我們是可以提供保冷袋讓他至少可以保冷至少兩個小時以上這樣子的時候其實對於\n在學童要飲用的安全上面是有比較的保障是謝謝次長那我這邊請教教育部部長其實嘉義縣跟雲林縣在我們班班有鮮奶的政策之前都有配送學童鮮乳這個經驗甚至雲林縣的學童飲用鮮乳已經超過5年也沒有發生有食安的問題所以本席這邊要請教部長這個部分我們是不是可以請雲林縣來分享他們相關的經驗來提供給其他縣市來參考\n謝謝委員的提醒,確實在我們這個班班有鮮奶之前,雲林、嘉義本來就已經都有在提供給縣市的學童核鮮奶\n我想他們的經驗確實也是我們未來可以來所以這邊是不是請教育部裡面也可以積極了解之後來協助其他的地方縣市來提供給他們參考降低就是在鮮乳保存上這個食安的疑慮其實本席這邊要強調就是說班班有鮮乳是希望說我們要提供給孩童更全面的營養\n有這樣的政策的美意希望不要打折尤其在本期的選區福星鄉是我國弱農重鎮我們全國佔牛乳的產量是全國第二但是我們縣裡面登記的這個表格看起來對鮮乳的需求這麼低而且選擇薄酒乳的這個需求比較高讓我也覺得十分的疑惑\n那如果說我們彰化縣是沒有配送的經驗本身認為說也應該向其他縣市來學習所以希望說如果是因為有這個能力系統及配送問題而沒有經驗其實不能就因為這樣不去嘗試我是希望從教育部跟農業部這邊應該也要善盡協助的責任\n協助沒有經驗的縣市政府就向其他有相關經驗的縣市學習讓我們的孩童可以有更全面的營養是我們每一位大人的責任所以說如果我們的政策有不夠細緻的地方我們可以再加強我們可以再檢討然後再來改善\n地方縣市政府沒有經驗我希望我們農業部跟教育部就來協助讓我們一起以孩子的健康為出發點一起努力喔好那這個部分農業部你們可以先請回我接下來要請教我們部長關於老舊校舍的問題\n請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席\n根文報告我們在這個明年裡邊大概有27億1月4年會有27億的這個對老舊教室上的一些整修這個改建大概我們事實上是有對各縣市的這些國中小有一些老舊的建築物但是部長您所謂的27億是針對所有的老舊校舍\n是的本席是理解說教育部因為你們有考量訓期以及其他校舍也有整修建的規劃這個我理解喔但是像這些活動中心老舊的活動中心他們有屋頂漏水、牆面軍墊還是說瓷磚脫落以及地板破損這些問題其實對孩子們在活動中心裡面活動還是辦活動的時候學校辦活動嘛孩子都在這個這樣子的建築空間裡面其實真的是有安全的疑慮喔所以我真的要再次跟部長您強調就是說針對老舊活動中心的修繩\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就 «班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形»進行專題\n我們教育部為了後續課綱研修的作業也領選了新一屆的課審會學生代表\n那在8月底的時候召開遴選委員會但是有愉快的學生反應說其實會議的狀況不是很理想而且疑似還有言語霸凌的狀況發生部長您知道這個狀況嗎?\n有一點細節給委員部長他也知道那這個在八月份的時候開會大概有一件事是孩子們這些代表們自己要去選出他們的代表那主席也是他們選的那會後有這一些言論我們也去了解關切以及表達在正式的選擇的時候選舉的時候大家在互動的過程中要尊重大家彼此的意見大概都有在處理\n這就是我今天所要說的其實在教育部對於我們這些相關的會議我們應該要保障各年齡的發言權以及我們應該制定學生代表的會議職域在這個會議上有一些比較年長的學生代表不斷的質疑年紀比較小的這些代表來質疑他們是不是有具備參與會議的資格\n甚至在會議上都會以小孩、小屁孩這樣的字樣來嘲諷年紀比較小的這些學生代表然後在投票的階段因為投票的結果沒有很滿意甚至還會叫囂、拍桌這樣子不斷的質疑年紀較小的這些學生代表而且會後還會有針對這些年紀比較小的學生進行騷擾跟拍照的動作讓他們這些年紀比較輕的學生心生恐懼\n我相信我們後來還會有很多的會議相當多的會議是會有這樣子不同年齡層的這個學生代表來參與那這一次的會議上其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助那為什麼你們沒有在這個會議的裡面你們友善盡這樣子協助的責任你們在會議上扮演的角色或者說針對這些不當的舉動你們有沒有制止\n在會議的過程中除了前排還有相關的顧問大概有三位到六位包含會議議程的顧問包含CRC的顧問大概都在附近那在零星的地方有特定的因為那個場域比較大是一個活動中心那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問那零星的地方以及會後的在網路上的發言我們剛好有蒐集到就會直接給他們\n做尊重多元的這種算是要求也請大家一起努力啦謝謝當然我們尊重多元啦尊重各位與會代表他們的發言權以及他們的權益以及他本身他們所代表的身份但是在會議裡面我們是不是也應該要說其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同的年紀的學生來參與就是希望說請聽學生的意見那尤其說這是攸關於課綱的這個制定喔那\n主席\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.682 --> 00:14.527\n謝謝主席,請教育部鄭部長以及農業部的杜長次好,有請鄭部長跟杜次長部長早安,針對今天的專報,班班有鮮奶及老舊校舍的整建首先我們先來看一下關於班班有鮮奶的需求數據依據全國的需求表來看\n\n00:36.400 --> 00:56.684\n新來的登記的部分是百分之二十點七六包九乳是七十五點七七涵蓋豆漿是三點四七那本席的選區彰化縣是落農大縣但是竟然選擇鮮乳的比例也只有百分之十四部長你覺得這是最主要原因是什麼我想這個部分我們針對兩個部分來討論我先請教農業部\n\n01:01.525 --> 01:17.026\n市長您覺得說我們的冷鏈系統是不是會跟不上就是我們這個現在要配送鮮乳的這個需求讓縣市政府、讓家長、讓學校會覺得說在鮮乳的保存上有食安的疑慮\n\n01:18.587 --> 01:39.439\n謝謝委員提醒,因為其實在很多縣市有一些縣型就已經在做鮮乳配送,所以這個部分其實是需要有配套,您說的沒錯那第二點就是說,其實還是要在跟各縣市下訂的時候,我們有在說,但是我還會持續在說就是說,如果當場是沒有冷藏設備的話,其實廠商會提供保冷袋\n\n01:40.279 --> 01:41.820\n市長,在針對能鏈系統的部分,其實我國在生鮮的農產品的配送以及生乳的運送這個技術應該是相當的成熟\n\n02:00.012 --> 02:07.403\n如果確實說是在偏遠地區他有一些難以配勝的困境才會選擇保久爐一般我們會這樣子想那農業部這邊你們覺得以你們比較專業的看法說是不是是因為冷鏈系統的關係所以選擇鮮爐的比例會比較低\n\n02:15.895 --> 02:34.212\n我想在學校或縣市政府這邊應該是有他考量的問題那我想我們會再次再次跟縣市政府說對於沒有冷藏設施的部分我們是可以提供保冷袋讓他至少可以保冷至少兩個小時以上這樣子的時候其實對於\n\n02:35.373 --> 03:00.195\n在學童要飲用的安全上面是有比較的保障是謝謝次長那我這邊請教教育部部長其實嘉義縣跟雲林縣在我們班班有鮮奶的政策之前都有配送學童鮮乳這個經驗甚至雲林縣的學童飲用鮮乳已經超過5年也沒有發生有食安的問題所以本席這邊要請教部長這個部分我們是不是可以請雲林縣來分享他們相關的經驗來提供給其他縣市來參考\n\n03:03.375 --> 03:14.190\n謝謝委員的提醒,確實在我們這個班班有鮮奶之前,雲林、嘉義本來就已經都有在提供給縣市的學童核鮮奶\n\n03:18.786 --> 03:24.750\n我想他們的經驗確實也是我們未來可以來所以這邊是不是請教育部裡面也可以積極了解之後來協助其他的地方縣市來提供給他們參考降低就是在鮮乳保存上這個食安的疑慮其實本席這邊要強調就是說班班有鮮乳是希望說我們要提供給孩童更全面的營養\n\n03:40.119 --> 03:46.823\n有這樣的政策的美意希望不要打折尤其在本期的選區福星鄉是我國弱農重鎮我們全國佔牛乳的產量是全國第二但是我們縣裡面登記的這個表格看起來對鮮乳的需求這麼低而且選擇薄酒乳的這個需求比較高讓我也覺得十分的疑惑\n\n04:00.049 --> 04:03.311\n那如果說我們彰化縣是沒有配送的經驗本身認為說也應該向其他縣市來學習所以希望說如果是因為有這個能力系統及配送問題而沒有經驗其實不能就因為這樣不去嘗試我是希望從教育部跟農業部這邊應該也要善盡協助的責任\n\n04:18.138 --> 04:20.801\n協助沒有經驗的縣市政府就向其他有相關經驗的縣市學習讓我們的孩童可以有更全面的營養是我們每一位大人的責任所以說如果我們的政策有不夠細緻的地方我們可以再加強我們可以再檢討然後再來改善\n\n04:36.940 --> 04:51.861\n地方縣市政府沒有經驗我希望我們農業部跟教育部就來協助讓我們一起以孩子的健康為出發點一起努力喔好那這個部分農業部你們可以先請回我接下來要請教我們部長關於老舊校舍的問題\n\n04:52.842 --> 04:53.563\n請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席\n\n05:24.283 --> 05:46.339\n根文報告我們在這個明年裡邊大概有27億1月4年會有27億的這個對老舊教室上的一些整修這個改建大概我們事實上是有對各縣市的這些國中小有一些老舊的建築物但是部長您所謂的27億是針對所有的老舊校舍\n\n05:50.237 --> 06:19.486\n是的本席是理解說教育部因為你們有考量訓期以及其他校舍也有整修建的規劃這個我理解喔但是像這些活動中心老舊的活動中心他們有屋頂漏水、牆面軍墊還是說瓷磚脫落以及地板破損這些問題其實對孩子們在活動中心裡面活動還是辦活動的時候學校辦活動嘛孩子都在這個這樣子的建築空間裡面其實真的是有安全的疑慮喔所以我真的要再次跟部長您強調就是說針對老舊活動中心的修繩\n\n06:19.906 --> 06:22.227\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就«班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形»進行專題\n\n06:41.315 --> 06:43.998\n我們教育部為了後續課綱研修的作業也領選了新一屆的課審會學生代表\n\n07:00.555 --> 07:09.232\n那在8月底的時候召開遴選委員會但是有愉快的學生反應說其實會議的狀況不是很理想而且疑似還有言語霸凌的狀況發生部長您知道這個狀況嗎?\n\n07:16.089 --> 07:44.447\n有一點細節給委員部長他也知道那這個在八月份的時候開會大概有一件事是孩子們這些代表們自己要去選出他們的代表那主席也是他們選的那會後有這一些言論我們也去了解關切以及表達在正式的選擇的時候選舉的時候大家在互動的過程中要尊重大家彼此的意見大概都有在處理\n\n07:45.428 --> 08:04.467\n這就是我今天所要說的其實在教育部對於我們這些相關的會議我們應該要保障各年齡的發言權以及我們應該制定學生代表的會議職域在這個會議上有一些比較年長的學生代表不斷的質疑年紀比較小的這些代表來質疑他們是不是有具備參與會議的資格\n\n08:06.089 --> 08:30.587\n甚至在會議上都會以小孩、小屁孩這樣的字樣來嘲諷年紀比較小的這些學生代表然後在投票的階段因為投票的結果沒有很滿意甚至還會叫囂、拍桌這樣子不斷的質疑年紀較小的這些學生代表而且會後還會有針對這些年紀比較小的學生進行騷擾跟拍照的動作讓他們這些年紀比較輕的學生心生恐懼\n\n08:32.548 --> 08:55.214\n我相信我們後來還會有很多的會議相當多的會議是會有這樣子不同年齡層的這個學生代表來參與那這一次的會議上其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助那為什麼你們沒有在這個會議的裡面你們友善盡這樣子協助的責任你們在會議上扮演的角色或者說針對這些不當的舉動你們有沒有制止\n\n08:57.184 --> 09:24.026\n在會議的過程中除了前排還有相關的顧問大概有三位到六位包含會議議程的顧問包含CRC的顧問大概都在附近那在零星的地方有特定的因為那個場域比較大是一個活動中心那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問那零星的地方以及會後的在網路上的發言我們剛好有蒐集到就會直接給他們\n\n09:24.767 --> 09:52.425\n做尊重多元的這種算是要求也請大家一起努力啦謝謝當然我們尊重多元啦尊重各位與會代表他們的發言權以及他們的權益以及他本身他們所代表的身份但是在會議裡面我們是不是也應該要說其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同的年紀的學生來參與就是希望說請聽學生的意見那尤其說這是攸關於課綱的這個制定喔那\n\n09:52.845 --> 09:52.885\n主席\n\n10:22.705 --> 10:28.290\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.682,"end":14.527,"text":"謝謝主席,請教育部鄭部長以及農業部的杜長次好,有請鄭部長跟杜次長部長早安,針對今天的專報,班班有鮮奶及老舊校舍的整建首先我們先來看一下關於班班有鮮奶的需求數據依據全國的需求表來看"},{"start":36.4,"end":56.684,"text":"新來的登記的部分是百分之二十點七六包九乳是七十五點七七涵蓋豆漿是三點四七那本席的選區彰化縣是落農大縣但是竟然選擇鮮乳的比例也只有百分之十四部長你覺得這是最主要原因是什麼我想這個部分我們針對兩個部分來討論我先請教農業部"},{"start":61.525,"end":77.026,"text":"市長您覺得說我們的冷鏈系統是不是會跟不上就是我們這個現在要配送鮮乳的這個需求讓縣市政府、讓家長、讓學校會覺得說在鮮乳的保存上有食安的疑慮"},{"start":78.587,"end":99.439,"text":"謝謝委員提醒,因為其實在很多縣市有一些縣型就已經在做鮮乳配送,所以這個部分其實是需要有配套,您說的沒錯那第二點就是說,其實還是要在跟各縣市下訂的時候,我們有在說,但是我還會持續在說就是說,如果當場是沒有冷藏設備的話,其實廠商會提供保冷袋"},{"start":100.279,"end":101.82,"text":"市長,在針對能鏈系統的部分,其實我國在生鮮的農產品的配送以及生乳的運送這個技術應該是相當的成熟"},{"start":120.012,"end":127.403,"text":"如果確實說是在偏遠地區他有一些難以配勝的困境才會選擇保久爐一般我們會這樣子想那農業部這邊你們覺得以你們比較專業的看法說是不是是因為冷鏈系統的關係所以選擇鮮爐的比例會比較低"},{"start":135.895,"end":154.212,"text":"我想在學校或縣市政府這邊應該是有他考量的問題那我想我們會再次再次跟縣市政府說對於沒有冷藏設施的部分我們是可以提供保冷袋讓他至少可以保冷至少兩個小時以上這樣子的時候其實對於"},{"start":155.373,"end":180.195,"text":"在學童要飲用的安全上面是有比較的保障是謝謝次長那我這邊請教教育部部長其實嘉義縣跟雲林縣在我們班班有鮮奶的政策之前都有配送學童鮮乳這個經驗甚至雲林縣的學童飲用鮮乳已經超過5年也沒有發生有食安的問題所以本席這邊要請教部長這個部分我們是不是可以請雲林縣來分享他們相關的經驗來提供給其他縣市來參考"},{"start":183.375,"end":194.19,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒,確實在我們這個班班有鮮奶之前,雲林、嘉義本來就已經都有在提供給縣市的學童核鮮奶"},{"start":198.786,"end":204.75,"text":"我想他們的經驗確實也是我們未來可以來所以這邊是不是請教育部裡面也可以積極了解之後來協助其他的地方縣市來提供給他們參考降低就是在鮮乳保存上這個食安的疑慮其實本席這邊要強調就是說班班有鮮乳是希望說我們要提供給孩童更全面的營養"},{"start":220.119,"end":226.823,"text":"有這樣的政策的美意希望不要打折尤其在本期的選區福星鄉是我國弱農重鎮我們全國佔牛乳的產量是全國第二但是我們縣裡面登記的這個表格看起來對鮮乳的需求這麼低而且選擇薄酒乳的這個需求比較高讓我也覺得十分的疑惑"},{"start":240.049,"end":243.311,"text":"那如果說我們彰化縣是沒有配送的經驗本身認為說也應該向其他縣市來學習所以希望說如果是因為有這個能力系統及配送問題而沒有經驗其實不能就因為這樣不去嘗試我是希望從教育部跟農業部這邊應該也要善盡協助的責任"},{"start":258.138,"end":260.801,"text":"協助沒有經驗的縣市政府就向其他有相關經驗的縣市學習讓我們的孩童可以有更全面的營養是我們每一位大人的責任所以說如果我們的政策有不夠細緻的地方我們可以再加強我們可以再檢討然後再來改善"},{"start":276.94,"end":291.861,"text":"地方縣市政府沒有經驗我希望我們農業部跟教育部就來協助讓我們一起以孩子的健康為出發點一起努力喔好那這個部分農業部你們可以先請回我接下來要請教我們部長關於老舊校舍的問題"},{"start":292.842,"end":293.563,"text":"請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席"},{"start":324.283,"end":346.339,"text":"根文報告我們在這個明年裡邊大概有27億1月4年會有27億的這個對老舊教室上的一些整修這個改建大概我們事實上是有對各縣市的這些國中小有一些老舊的建築物但是部長您所謂的27億是針對所有的老舊校舍"},{"start":350.237,"end":379.486,"text":"是的本席是理解說教育部因為你們有考量訓期以及其他校舍也有整修建的規劃這個我理解喔但是像這些活動中心老舊的活動中心他們有屋頂漏水、牆面軍墊還是說瓷磚脫落以及地板破損這些問題其實對孩子們在活動中心裡面活動還是辦活動的時候學校辦活動嘛孩子都在這個這樣子的建築空間裡面其實真的是有安全的疑慮喔所以我真的要再次跟部長您強調就是說針對老舊活動中心的修繩"},{"start":379.906,"end":382.227,"text":"二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席就 «班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形»進行專題"},{"start":401.315,"end":403.998,"text":"我們教育部為了後續課綱研修的作業也領選了新一屆的課審會學生代表"},{"start":420.555,"end":429.232,"text":"那在8月底的時候召開遴選委員會但是有愉快的學生反應說其實會議的狀況不是很理想而且疑似還有言語霸凌的狀況發生部長您知道這個狀況嗎?"},{"start":436.089,"end":464.447,"text":"有一點細節給委員部長他也知道那這個在八月份的時候開會大概有一件事是孩子們這些代表們自己要去選出他們的代表那主席也是他們選的那會後有這一些言論我們也去了解關切以及表達在正式的選擇的時候選舉的時候大家在互動的過程中要尊重大家彼此的意見大概都有在處理"},{"start":465.428,"end":484.467,"text":"這就是我今天所要說的其實在教育部對於我們這些相關的會議我們應該要保障各年齡的發言權以及我們應該制定學生代表的會議職域在這個會議上有一些比較年長的學生代表不斷的質疑年紀比較小的這些代表來質疑他們是不是有具備參與會議的資格"},{"start":486.089,"end":510.587,"text":"甚至在會議上都會以小孩、小屁孩這樣的字樣來嘲諷年紀比較小的這些學生代表然後在投票的階段因為投票的結果沒有很滿意甚至還會叫囂、拍桌這樣子不斷的質疑年紀較小的這些學生代表而且會後還會有針對這些年紀比較小的學生進行騷擾跟拍照的動作讓他們這些年紀比較輕的學生心生恐懼"},{"start":512.548,"end":535.214,"text":"我相信我們後來還會有很多的會議相當多的會議是會有這樣子不同年齡層的這個學生代表來參與那這一次的會議上其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助那為什麼你們沒有在這個會議的裡面你們友善盡這樣子協助的責任你們在會議上扮演的角色或者說針對這些不當的舉動你們有沒有制止"},{"start":537.184,"end":564.026,"text":"在會議的過程中除了前排還有相關的顧問大概有三位到六位包含會議議程的顧問包含CRC的顧問大概都在附近那在零星的地方有特定的因為那個場域比較大是一個活動中心那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問那零星的地方以及會後的在網路上的發言我們剛好有蒐集到就會直接給他們"},{"start":564.767,"end":592.425,"text":"做尊重多元的這種算是要求也請大家一起努力啦謝謝當然我們尊重多元啦尊重各位與會代表他們的發言權以及他們的權益以及他本身他們所代表的身份但是在會議裡面我們是不是也應該要說其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同的年紀的學生來參與就是希望說請聽學生的意見那尤其說這是攸關於課綱的這個制定喔那"},{"start":592.845,"end":592.885,"text":"主席"},{"start":622.705,"end":628.29,"text":"二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:48:55 - 10:59:42","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國土管理署派員列席備詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155132,"gazette":{"lineno":455,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時49分）謝謝主席。請教育部鄭部長，以及農業部的杜常次。"],["主席：有請鄭部長及杜次長。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長早安！"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早！"],["陳委員秀寳：針對今天的這個專報─班班有鮮奶以及老舊校舍的整建，首先，我們先來看一下關於班班有鮮奶這個需求的數據。","依據這個全國的需求表來看，鮮奶登記的部分是20.76%，保久乳是75.77%，含鈣豆漿是3.47%，本席的選區彰化縣是酪農大縣，但是竟然選擇鮮乳的比例也只有14%。部長，您覺得這最主要的原因是什麼？我想這個部分我們針對兩個部分來討論，我先請教農業部，次長，您覺得我們的冷鏈系統是不是會跟不上我們現在要配送鮮乳的這個需求，讓縣市政府、讓家長、讓學校會覺得在鮮乳的保存上有食安的疑慮？"],["杜次長文珍：謝謝委員提醒，其實在很多縣市現行就已經在做鮮乳配送，這個部分是需要有配套，您說的沒錯，第二點就是各縣市下訂的時候，我們有在說，但是我們還會持續再說，如果當場是沒有冷藏設備的話，其實廠商會提供保冷袋的部分……"],["陳委員秀寳：會有保冷袋？"],["杜次長文珍：是，會給保冷袋，讓這個保存至少有2個小時，可以讓學校在運用上面更方便，以上。"],["陳委員秀寳：次長，針對冷鏈系統的部分，其實我國在生鮮農產品的配送以及生乳的運送等技術應該是相當的成熟，如果確實是在偏遠地區，有一些難以配送的困境才會選擇保久乳，一般我們會這樣子想，農業部，以你們比較專業的看法，你們覺得是不是因為冷鏈系統的關係，所以選擇鮮乳的比例會比較低？"],["杜次長文珍：我想在學校或縣市政府這邊應該是有它考量的問題，我們會再次跟縣市政府說，對於沒有冷藏設施的部分，我們是可以提供保冷袋，讓它至少可以保冷2個小時以上，這樣其實對於學童要飲用的安全上面是比較有保障。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝次長。我請教教育部部長，其實嘉義縣及雲林縣在我們班班有鮮奶的政策之前都有配送學童鮮乳這個經驗，甚至雲林縣的學童飲用鮮乳已經超過5年，也沒有發生食安的問題，所以本席要請教部長，這個部分我們是不是可以請雲林縣來分享他們相關的經驗提供給其他縣市來參考？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的這個提醒，確實在我們這個班班有鮮奶之前，雲林、嘉義本來就已經都有在提供給他們縣市的學童喝鮮奶，我想他們的經驗確實也是我們未來可以來……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以我是不是請教育部也可以積極瞭解之後，來協助其他的地方縣市，來提供給他們參考，降低在鮮乳保存上這個食安的疑慮？","其實本席要強調，班班有鮮乳是希望我們要提供給孩童更全面的營養，有這樣的政策美意，希望不要打折，尤其在本席的選區─福興鄉是我國酪農重鎮，我們牛乳的產量是全國第二，但是依我們縣裡面登記的這個表格看起來，對鮮乳的需求這麼低，而且選擇保久乳的需求比較高，讓我也覺得十分的疑惑，如果是我們彰化縣沒有配送的經驗，本席認為也應該向其他縣市來學習，希望如果是因為有這個冷鏈系統及配送的問題而沒有經驗，其實不能就因為這樣不去嘗試，我是希望教育部及農業部應該也要善盡協助的責任，協助沒有經驗的縣市政府向其他有相關經驗的縣市來學習。讓我們的孩童可以有更全面的營養是我們每一位大人的責任，所以如果我們的政策有不夠細緻的地方，我們可以再加強，我們可以再檢討、再來改善，關於地方縣市政府沒有經驗，我希望我們農業部及教育部就來協助，讓我們以孩子的健康為出發點一起努力。農業部，你們可以先請回。","我接下來要請教部長關於老舊校舍的問題，其實本席一直以來都十分關心我們孩子在校園的環境安全，針對這個老舊活動中心整修建的問題，在今年度的新舊內閣總質詢我都有提出相關的問題，我相信部長也都知道，我一直是非常關心相關老舊活動中心整修建的問題，也一直在詢問我們教育部對這些相關的經費有怎樣的規劃，我現在想請教部長，到目前為止，教育部規劃的情況是怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們在明年（114年）會有大概27億對老舊教室上的整修、改建，事實上，我們也有對各縣市國中小一些老舊的建築物……"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，但是您所謂的27億是針對所有的老舊校舍。"],["鄭部長英耀：是的，我們目前……"],["陳委員秀寳：本席是理解教育部因為有考量汛期，以及其他校舍也有整修建的規劃，這個我理解，但是像這些老舊的活動中心，它們有屋頂漏水、牆面龜裂，還是磁磚脫落以及地板破損，這些問題對孩子們在活動中心裡面活動，還是學校辦活動的時候，孩子在這樣子的建築空間裡面其實真的是有安全的疑慮。所以我真的要再次跟部長強調，針對老舊活動中心的修繕是刻不容緩，剛才部長提到27億這個部分，我相信是針對所有的老舊校舍，而不是針對這些老舊的活動中心……"],["鄭部長英耀：我想委員所關心的，我們一定會跟地方政府共同合作，有立即要改善的，我們透過中央跟地方的合作、循行政程序，我們會給予……"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，您1個月之內提相關的規劃給本席辦公室，就針對老舊活動中心這個部分，您提一份報告給辦公室。","接下來，我要請教部長，我們教育部為了後續課綱研修的作業也遴選了新一屆課審會的學生代表，在8月底的時候召開遴選委員會，但是有與會的學生反映會議的狀況不是很理想，而且疑似還有言語霸凌的狀況發生。部長，您知道這個狀況嗎？"],["彭署長富源：先補充一點細節給委員，部長也知道，這個在8月份的時候開會，有一件事是這些代表們自己要去選出他們的代表，主席也是他們選的，會後有這一些言論，我們也去瞭解、關切以及表達在正式選舉的時候，大家在互動的過程中，要尊重彼此的意見，大概都有在處理。"],["陳委員秀寳：這個就是我今天所要說的，教育部對於我們這些相關的會議應該要保障各年齡的發言權以及我們應該要制定學生代表的會議指引。","在這個會議上，有一些比較年長的學生代表不斷的質疑年紀比較小的這些代表，質疑他們是不是有具備參與會議的資格，甚至在會議上都會以「小孩」、「小屁孩」這樣的字樣來嘲諷年紀比較小的這些學生代表，然後在投票的階段，因為投票的結果沒有很滿意，甚至還會叫囂拍桌，不斷的質疑年紀較小的這些學生代表，而且會後還會針對這些年紀比較小的學生進行騷擾及拍照的動作，讓這些年紀比較輕的學生心生恐懼。","我相信我們後來還有相當多的會議會有這樣子不同年齡層的學生代表來參與，這一次的會議上，其實教育部的人員也都在旁邊協助，為什麼你們沒有在這個會議裡面善盡這樣子協助的責任？你們在會議上扮演的角色是什麼？或者針對這些不當的舉動，你們有沒有制止？"],["彭署長富源：在那個會議的過程中，除了前排，還有相關的顧問大概有3位到6位，包含會議議程的顧問、包含CRC的顧問，大概都在附近，因為那個場域比較大、是一個活動中心，那特定的場域都已經有我們剛才講的顧問，關於零星的地方以及會後在網路上的發言，如果我們剛好有蒐集到的，就會直接要求他們尊重多元、也請大家一起努力，謝謝。"],["陳委員秀寳：當然我們尊重多元，尊重各位與會代表的發言權、他們的權益以及他們本身所代表的身分，其實我們在會議裡面有這麼多不同年紀的學生來參與就是希望傾聽學生的意見，尤其這是攸關於課綱的制定。我剛剛提到，其實我們有很多會議是會有不同年齡層來參與的，希望教育部是不是針對學生代表參加與會的這些相關會議能夠制定相關的發言規範，來保障各年齡層學生代表的權益，這個部分，教育部有沒有比較積極的作法？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我想如果在這一個會議裡邊，不同委員有對其他委員的不當言論，這都是不符合公民民主素養，未來我們都會要求主席要有具體回應的改善。"],["陳委員秀寳：我會希望制定比較明確的學生代表會議指引……"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：就一個明確的規範。好，謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員，部長請回。","有請羅廷瑋委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葉元之","范雲","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","林宜瑾","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","張嘉郡","洪申翰","張雅琳","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","林月琴","吳春城","黃健豪","黃國昌","牛煦庭","徐富癸","羅智強","吳沛憶","高金素梅","李彥秀"],"page_start":295,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢；二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小\n學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國\n土管理署派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00016"}}}