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0.809}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 540.872, \"end\": 540.992, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 540.992, \"end\": 541.012, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,509 --> 00:00:14,398\n歡迎時間6加2謝謝昭偉那我們是不是有請國發會主委蔡委員早\n\n2\n00:00:24,653 --> 00:00:39,089\n好主委我想要就教主委那行政院在9月的時候針對國家人才的競爭力躍升方案那有一個四年期的計畫那它鎖定的有包括AI的人才以及綠色領域跨域\n\n3\n00:00:41,754 --> 00:01:09,888\n跨域的人文數位人才那我們希望在2028年要到45萬的人次那包括說要新增12萬名外國專業人才那擴增8萬名外國技術能力那我想要請教主委的就是說好我們2028年要新增這樣外國的專業人才那外國的技術能力到台灣來那你們的具體計畫是什麼\n\n4\n00:01:11,718 --> 00:01:35,637\n好的我們具體計畫是透過幾種方式第一個是放寬法令鬆綁讓人才更容易進來那尤其是我們也比較了日本、新加坡、韓國等地還有澳洲這些跟我們搶人才的地方做一個比較那之後呢我們現在也集合了各部會正在修訂法令我們希望在年底送進立法院來審議你也很清楚\n\n5\n00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,548\n現在外國的人才要進來最主要是法令的\n\n6\n00:01:43,447 --> 00:02:11,244\n的限制就是說我們如果沒有鬆綁現行的法令的情況之下外國人是進不來的啊你不管是專業人才或者是我們現在我們知道台灣各行各業都在缺工缺工的情況之下我相信主委你到民間的所有的企業你去找一找你會查這個缺工的狀況多嚴重啊對那既然缺工的狀況是這麼的嚴重我們都知道那我想要跟主委說的就是說我們看\n\n7\n00:02:12,267 --> 00:02:32,969\n有一個國家叫做泰國泰國他們在於這十年過去我們台灣都把泰國當作我們的移工的一個重點的來源國結果連泰國這個國家他們都正視到了他們自己國內也是缺工嚴重所以他們在過去這十年他們就把他們整個\n\n8\n00:02:35,471 --> 00:02:55,600\n這個整個國家的一個員工做了一個大幅度的調整那從2014年他們針對外國的一個聘用的一個外國人的聘用就增加160萬所以他們的所有的這個社會體系的僱員就已經55%以上都是外籍勞工\n\n9\n00:02:57,441 --> 00:03:15,971\n55%這是泰國這個國家那我們可以想像說他們基本上他們的勞動力已經比台灣充足的情況之下他們還鬆綁法令到了現在55%以上可以聘用外籍僱員那所以外國的勞工現在總數也是到達了他們歷史的一個巔峰\n\n10\n00:03:16,471 --> 00:03:45,611\n那可以看出說他們基本上大家都知道說我要保護國內的勞動力保護國內的年輕人有就業機會但是這個前提必須在於說年輕人到底選擇怎樣的就業如果這個就業機會是年輕人沒有意願的那我們還僵在這邊然後一直不把所謂移工的政策給他大幅的鬆綁這個是不利台灣整體的經濟發展主委你贊同我這樣的說法嗎我贊同委員的看法\n\n11\n00:03:46,231 --> 00:04:13,440\n對,所以我要具體的去跟主委說,我們去比較我只要用泰國,因為泰國過去我們都說泰國移工阿現在人家泰國,他們都引進移工,他們都到了55%那我們在相對於台灣,我們還在用傳統的五個等級就是3K5級制的一個適用從A++到ABCD,然後他們各差5%\n\n12\n00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:36,172\n最多到35%那如果他又再提高了他就用就業安定金金基本上這樣的政策你把它看起來如果你在C級啦C級的部分我跟他要請一個移工我定義要請六個六個本國籍人士對產業來說我不是不請這六個本國籍人士捏是我根本這六個我請不上\n\n13\n00:04:42,944 --> 00:05:05,202\n並不是說我不請啊我願意去聘請可是我請不上這六個所以我既然請不上這六個我就沒辦法去請一個移工來來我的公司做行會我是用C級的喔如果你用到D級的話D級的話是用電子零組件那又涉及到的科技產業喔又涉及到的科技業所以你回到D級的話我要請一個移工我要請十個十個\n\n14\n00:05:08,084 --> 00:05:13,856\n本國籍勞工問題就我這十個就找不到啊像沒人啊\n\n15\n00:05:15,246 --> 00:05:42,098\n所以這個比例來說我覺得以現階段我們不要講少子話我們就是講現在大家對於所謂工作的太陽的思考在改變年輕人他可能會選擇說我透過AI的時代我可以在網路上工作我可以更自由更有彈性的工作型態這是他們要的工作型態那如果是受僱於產業這個不是他們理想的受僱型態的時候\n\n16\n00:05:44,019 --> 00:05:53,189\n企業也要跟著調整國家的法令也要跟著調整啊好不好主委我最好和你共存這個我們會找勞動部來討論一下那你們的想法是怎樣\n\n17\n00:05:54,517 --> 00:06:17,857\n以我對產業的認知跟壓力的了解我是希望能放寬是最好啦因為泰國事實上在2018年人口開始消失他們到2024年人口會開始進入萎縮那所以他們很快的就制定了外勞法以後就開放的很快那我們可能有很多內部不同的聲音要被解決所以我想我找我們會找勞動部來討論這件事情\n\n18\n00:06:20,078 --> 00:06:33,155\n我是覺得要正視這問題而且這件事不要再拖我當然知道說很多政策的制定它會有不同的想法會有不同的意見但是這些意見中視要有被\n\n19\n00:06:34,403 --> 00:06:51,333\n有一方退讓就是說服的過程必須要減短就是要一方要退讓嘛對到底什麼怎樣才是對於國家產業是正確的啊所以我覺得這個東西你們真的就是趕快深入調查你們要趕快去了解現在所謂我們對於勞動力他們就業的狀況我剛才說的這麼多我認為那些都是現主席真的要緊面對的總統\n\n20\n00:06:59,637 --> 00:07:12,917\n我的看法是跟你一致的啦我會來努力一下好那這部分讓主委要趕快費心因為我們國發會是站在整個國家的布局是非常的重要產業布局那第二個勒我再跟主委說一下現在\n\n21\n00:07:15,180 --> 00:07:17,422\n我們在討論這個中高齡重返職場那這個中高齡重返職場他是需要這個中高齡他們不管是心態的一個調適或者是他們的生活習慣\n\n22\n00:07:31,136 --> 00:07:36,818\n所以我們事實上也做了一些數據的調查就是說針對45歲以上中高齡重返職場事實上我們從這個民調顯示是非常的悲觀就是說有高達為這個民調認為說重返職場是輕鬆的只有0.8%\n\n23\n00:07:53,866 --> 00:08:10,969\n只有0.8%所以你看起來勒是將近九成的人都認為重返職場是有困難或者是有壓力所以他要做是說中高齡第一個要重返職場困難那這個困難來自於說產業可能已經有替代能力他現在這個人要回去\n\n24\n00:08:12,410 --> 00:08:27,624\n是有困難還是說他整個心態的轉變但是我想台灣有一個狀況我們對於65歲以上的勞動參與率相對於韓國相對於新加坡相對於日本韓國新加坡是30%日本是25%我們台灣65歲以上的勞動參與率只有10%\n\n25\n00:08:32,268 --> 00:08:51,641\n這部分我覺得我們也可以檢討擴大整個勞動力勞動力的參與才是我們經濟發展的主要的一個一個基石好不好好的所以主委我剛才一部分這一點有納入我們的人才策略裡面那我們可能會想要建議這個成立一個這個人口對策的辦公室來\n\n26\n00:08:52,441 --> 00:09:01,012\n好,這個兩行都很要緊,我講這兩行,都是勞動力一定要最棒的提高,不然現在所有台灣的三頁,大家要叫好不好,主委。好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n509\t14398\t歡迎時間6加2謝謝昭偉那我們是不是有請國發會主委蔡委員早\n24653\t39089\t好 主委我想要就教主委那行政院在9月的時候針對國家人才的競爭力躍升方案那有一個四年期的計畫那它鎖定的有包括AI的人才以及綠色領域跨域\n41754\t69888\t跨域的人文數位人才那我們希望在2028年要到45萬的人次那包括說要新增12萬名外國專業人才那擴增8萬名外國技術能力那我想要請教主委的就是說好我們2028年要新增這樣外國的專業人才那外國的技術能力到台灣來那你們的具體計畫是什麼\n71718\t95637\t好的我們具體計畫是透過幾種方式第一個是放寬法令鬆綁讓人才更容易進來那尤其是我們也比較了日本、新加坡、韓國等地還有澳洲這些跟我們搶人才的地方做一個比較那之後呢我們現在也集合了各部會正在修訂法令我們希望在年底送進立法院來審議你也很清楚\n98560\t101548\t現在外國的人才要進來最主要是法令的\n103447\t131244\t的限制就是說我們如果沒有鬆綁現行的法令的情況之下外國人是進不來的啊你不管是專業人才或者是我們現在我們知道台灣各行各業都在缺工缺工的情況之下我相信主委你到民間的所有的企業你去找一找你會查這個缺工的狀況多嚴重啊對那既然缺工的狀況是這麼的嚴重我們都知道那我想要跟主委說的就是說我們看\n132267\t152969\t有一個國家叫做泰國泰國他們在於這十年過去我們台灣都把泰國當作我們的移工的一個重點的來源國結果連泰國這個國家他們都正視到了他們自己國內也是缺工嚴重所以他們在過去這十年他們就把他們整個\n155471\t175600\t這個整個國家的一個員工做了一個大幅度的調整那從2014年他們針對外國的一個聘用的一個外國人的聘用就增加160萬所以他們的所有的這個社會體系的僱員就已經55%以上都是外籍勞工\n177441\t195971\t55%這是泰國這個國家那我們可以想像說他們基本上他們的勞動力已經比台灣充足的情況之下他們還鬆綁法令到了現在55%以上可以聘用外籍僱員那所以外國的勞工現在總數也是到達了他們歷史的一個巔峰\n196471\t225611\t那可以看出說他們基本上大家都知道說我要保護國內的勞動力保護國內的年輕人有就業機會但是這個前提必須在於說年輕人到底選擇怎樣的就業如果這個就業機會是年輕人沒有意願的那我們還僵在這邊然後一直不把所謂移工的政策給他大幅的鬆綁這個是不利台灣整體的經濟發展主委你贊同我這樣的說法嗎我贊同委員的看法\n226231\t253440\t對,所以我要具體的去跟主委說,我們去比較我只要用泰國,因為泰國過去我們都說泰國移工阿現在人家泰國,他們都引進移工,他們都到了55%那我們在相對於台灣,我們還在用傳統的五個等級就是3K5級制的一個適用從A++到ABCD,然後他們各差5%\n254560\t276172\t最多到35%那如果他又再提高了他就用就業安定金金基本上這樣的政策你把它看起來如果你在C級啦C級的部分我跟他要請一個移工我定義要請六個六個本國籍人士對產業來說我不是不請這六個本國籍人士捏是我根本這六個我請不上\n282944\t305202\t並不是說我不請啊我願意去聘請可是我請不上這六個所以我既然請不上這六個我就沒辦法去請一個移工來來我的公司做行會我是用C級的喔如果你用到D級的話D級的話是用電子零組件那又涉及到的科技產業喔又涉及到的科技業所以你回到D級的話我要請一個移工我要請十個十個\n308084\t313856\t本國籍勞工問題就我這十個就找不到啊像沒人啊\n315246\t342098\t所以這個比例來說我覺得以現階段我們不要講少子話我們就是講現在大家對於所謂工作的太陽的思考在改變年輕人他可能會選擇說我透過AI的時代我可以在網路上工作我可以更自由更有彈性的工作型態這是他們要的工作型態那如果是受僱於產業這個不是他們理想的受僱型態的時候\n344019\t353189\t企業也要跟著調整國家的法令也要跟著調整啊好不好 主委我最好和你共存這個我們會找勞動部來討論一下那你們的想法是怎樣\n354517\t377857\t以我對產業的認知跟壓力的了解我是希望能放寬是最好啦因為泰國事實上在2018年人口開始消失他們到2024年人口會開始進入萎縮那所以他們很快的就制定了外勞法以後就開放的很快那我們可能有很多內部不同的聲音要被解決所以我想我找我們會找勞動部來討論這件事情\n380078\t393155\t我是覺得要正視這問題而且這件事不要再拖我當然知道說很多政策的制定它會有不同的想法會有不同的意見但是這些意見中視要有被\n394403\t411333\t有一方退讓就是說服的過程必須要減短就是要一方要退讓嘛對到底什麼怎樣才是對於國家產業是正確的啊所以我覺得這個東西你們真的就是趕快深入調查你們要趕快去了解現在所謂我們對於勞動力他們就業的狀況我剛才說的這麼多我認為那些都是現主席真的要緊面對的總統\n419637\t432917\t我的看法是跟你一致的啦我會來努力一下好那這部分讓主委要趕快費心因為我們國發會是站在整個國家的布局是非常的重要產業布局那第二個勒我再跟主委說一下現在\n435180\t437422\t我們在討論這個中高齡重返職場那這個中高齡重返職場他是需要這個中高齡他們不管是心態的一個調適或者是他們的生活習慣\n451136\t456818\t所以我們事實上也做了一些數據的調查就是說針對45歲以上中高齡重返職場事實上我們從這個民調顯示是非常的悲觀就是說有高達為這個民調認為說重返職場是輕鬆的只有0.8%\n473866\t490969\t只有0.8%所以你看起來勒是將近九成的人都認為重返職場是有困難或者是有壓力所以他要做是說中高齡第一個要重返職場困難那這個困難來自於說產業可能已經有替代能力他現在這個人要回去\n492410\t507624\t是有困難還是說他整個心態的轉變但是我想台灣有一個狀況我們對於65歲以上的勞動參與率相對於韓國相對於新加坡相對於日本韓國新加坡是30%日本是25%我們台灣65歲以上的勞動參與率只有10%\n512268\t531641\t這部分我覺得我們也可以檢討擴大整個勞動力勞動力的參與才是我們經濟發展的主要的一個一個基石好不好好的所以主委我剛才一部分這一點有納入我們的人才策略裡面那我們可能會想要建議這個成立一個這個人口對策的辦公室來\n532441\t541012\t好,這個兩行都很要緊,我講這兩行,都是勞動力一定要最棒的提高,不然現在所有台灣的三頁,大家要叫好不好,主委。好,謝謝。\n","txt":"歡迎時間6加2謝謝昭偉那我們是不是有請國發會主委蔡委員早\n好 主委我想要就教主委那行政院在9月的時候針對國家人才的競爭力躍升方案那有一個四年期的計畫那它鎖定的有包括AI的人才以及綠色領域跨域\n跨域的人文數位人才那我們希望在2028年要到45萬的人次那包括說要新增12萬名外國專業人才那擴增8萬名外國技術能力那我想要請教主委的就是說好我們2028年要新增這樣外國的專業人才那外國的技術能力到台灣來那你們的具體計畫是什麼\n好的我們具體計畫是透過幾種方式第一個是放寬法令鬆綁讓人才更容易進來那尤其是我們也比較了日本、新加坡、韓國等地還有澳洲這些跟我們搶人才的地方做一個比較那之後呢我們現在也集合了各部會正在修訂法令我們希望在年底送進立法院來審議你也很清楚\n現在外國的人才要進來最主要是法令的\n的限制就是說我們如果沒有鬆綁現行的法令的情況之下外國人是進不來的啊你不管是專業人才或者是我們現在我們知道台灣各行各業都在缺工缺工的情況之下我相信主委你到民間的所有的企業你去找一找你會查這個缺工的狀況多嚴重啊對那既然缺工的狀況是這麼的嚴重我們都知道那我想要跟主委說的就是說我們看\n有一個國家叫做泰國泰國他們在於這十年過去我們台灣都把泰國當作我們的移工的一個重點的來源國結果連泰國這個國家他們都正視到了他們自己國內也是缺工嚴重所以他們在過去這十年他們就把他們整個\n這個整個國家的一個員工做了一個大幅度的調整那從2014年他們針對外國的一個聘用的一個外國人的聘用就增加160萬所以他們的所有的這個社會體系的僱員就已經55%以上都是外籍勞工\n55%這是泰國這個國家那我們可以想像說他們基本上他們的勞動力已經比台灣充足的情況之下他們還鬆綁法令到了現在55%以上可以聘用外籍僱員那所以外國的勞工現在總數也是到達了他們歷史的一個巔峰\n那可以看出說他們基本上大家都知道說我要保護國內的勞動力保護國內的年輕人有就業機會但是這個前提必須在於說年輕人到底選擇怎樣的就業如果這個就業機會是年輕人沒有意願的那我們還僵在這邊然後一直不把所謂移工的政策給他大幅的鬆綁這個是不利台灣整體的經濟發展主委你贊同我這樣的說法嗎我贊同委員的看法\n對,所以我要具體的去跟主委說,我們去比較我只要用泰國,因為泰國過去我們都說泰國移工阿現在人家泰國,他們都引進移工,他們都到了55%那我們在相對於台灣,我們還在用傳統的五個等級就是3K5級制的一個適用從A++到ABCD,然後他們各差5%\n最多到35%那如果他又再提高了他就用就業安定金金基本上這樣的政策你把它看起來如果你在C級啦C級的部分我跟他要請一個移工我定義要請六個六個本國籍人士對產業來說我不是不請這六個本國籍人士捏是我根本這六個我請不上\n並不是說我不請啊我願意去聘請可是我請不上這六個所以我既然請不上這六個我就沒辦法去請一個移工來來我的公司做行會我是用C級的喔如果你用到D級的話D級的話是用電子零組件那又涉及到的科技產業喔又涉及到的科技業所以你回到D級的話我要請一個移工我要請十個十個\n本國籍勞工問題就我這十個就找不到啊像沒人啊\n所以這個比例來說我覺得以現階段我們不要講少子話我們就是講現在大家對於所謂工作的太陽的思考在改變年輕人他可能會選擇說我透過AI的時代我可以在網路上工作我可以更自由更有彈性的工作型態這是他們要的工作型態那如果是受僱於產業這個不是他們理想的受僱型態的時候\n企業也要跟著調整國家的法令也要跟著調整啊好不好 主委我最好和你共存這個我們會找勞動部來討論一下那你們的想法是怎樣\n以我對產業的認知跟壓力的了解我是希望能放寬是最好啦因為泰國事實上在2018年人口開始消失他們到2024年人口會開始進入萎縮那所以他們很快的就制定了外勞法以後就開放的很快那我們可能有很多內部不同的聲音要被解決所以我想我找我們會找勞動部來討論這件事情\n我是覺得要正視這問題而且這件事不要再拖我當然知道說很多政策的制定它會有不同的想法會有不同的意見但是這些意見中視要有被\n有一方退讓就是說服的過程必須要減短就是要一方要退讓嘛對到底什麼怎樣才是對於國家產業是正確的啊所以我覺得這個東西你們真的就是趕快深入調查你們要趕快去了解現在所謂我們對於勞動力他們就業的狀況我剛才說的這麼多我認為那些都是現主席真的要緊面對的總統\n我的看法是跟你一致的啦我會來努力一下好那這部分讓主委要趕快費心因為我們國發會是站在整個國家的布局是非常的重要產業布局那第二個勒我再跟主委說一下現在\n我們在討論這個中高齡重返職場那這個中高齡重返職場他是需要這個中高齡他們不管是心態的一個調適或者是他們的生活習慣\n所以我們事實上也做了一些數據的調查就是說針對45歲以上中高齡重返職場事實上我們從這個民調顯示是非常的悲觀就是說有高達為這個民調認為說重返職場是輕鬆的只有0.8%\n只有0.8%所以你看起來勒是將近九成的人都認為重返職場是有困難或者是有壓力所以他要做是說中高齡第一個要重返職場困難那這個困難來自於說產業可能已經有替代能力他現在這個人要回去\n是有困難還是說他整個心態的轉變但是我想台灣有一個狀況我們對於65歲以上的勞動參與率相對於韓國相對於新加坡相對於日本韓國新加坡是30%日本是25%我們台灣65歲以上的勞動參與率只有10%\n這部分我覺得我們也可以檢討擴大整個勞動力勞動力的參與才是我們經濟發展的主要的一個一個基石好不好好的所以主委我剛才一部分這一點有納入我們的人才策略裡面那我們可能會想要建議這個成立一個這個人口對策的辦公室來\n好,這個兩行都很要緊,我講這兩行,都是勞動力一定要最棒的提高,不然現在所有台灣的三頁,大家要叫好不好,主委。好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.509 --> 00:14.398\n歡迎時間6加2謝謝昭偉那我們是不是有請國發會主委蔡委員早\n\n00:24.653 --> 00:39.089\n好主委我想要就教主委那行政院在9月的時候針對國家人才的競爭力躍升方案那有一個四年期的計畫那它鎖定的有包括AI的人才以及綠色領域跨域\n\n00:41.754 --> 01:09.888\n跨域的人文數位人才那我們希望在2028年要到45萬的人次那包括說要新增12萬名外國專業人才那擴增8萬名外國技術能力那我想要請教主委的就是說好我們2028年要新增這樣外國的專業人才那外國的技術能力到台灣來那你們的具體計畫是什麼\n\n01:11.718 --> 01:35.637\n好的我們具體計畫是透過幾種方式第一個是放寬法令鬆綁讓人才更容易進來那尤其是我們也比較了日本、新加坡、韓國等地還有澳洲這些跟我們搶人才的地方做一個比較那之後呢我們現在也集合了各部會正在修訂法令我們希望在年底送進立法院來審議你也很清楚\n\n01:38.560 --> 01:41.548\n現在外國的人才要進來最主要是法令的\n\n01:43.447 --> 02:11.244\n的限制就是說我們如果沒有鬆綁現行的法令的情況之下外國人是進不來的啊你不管是專業人才或者是我們現在我們知道台灣各行各業都在缺工缺工的情況之下我相信主委你到民間的所有的企業你去找一找你會查這個缺工的狀況多嚴重啊對那既然缺工的狀況是這麼的嚴重我們都知道那我想要跟主委說的就是說我們看\n\n02:12.267 --> 02:32.969\n有一個國家叫做泰國泰國他們在於這十年過去我們台灣都把泰國當作我們的移工的一個重點的來源國結果連泰國這個國家他們都正視到了他們自己國內也是缺工嚴重所以他們在過去這十年他們就把他們整個\n\n02:35.471 --> 02:55.600\n這個整個國家的一個員工做了一個大幅度的調整那從2014年他們針對外國的一個聘用的一個外國人的聘用就增加160萬所以他們的所有的這個社會體系的僱員就已經55%以上都是外籍勞工\n\n02:57.441 --> 03:15.971\n55%這是泰國這個國家那我們可以想像說他們基本上他們的勞動力已經比台灣充足的情況之下他們還鬆綁法令到了現在55%以上可以聘用外籍僱員那所以外國的勞工現在總數也是到達了他們歷史的一個巔峰\n\n03:16.471 --> 03:45.611\n那可以看出說他們基本上大家都知道說我要保護國內的勞動力保護國內的年輕人有就業機會但是這個前提必須在於說年輕人到底選擇怎樣的就業如果這個就業機會是年輕人沒有意願的那我們還僵在這邊然後一直不把所謂移工的政策給他大幅的鬆綁這個是不利台灣整體的經濟發展主委你贊同我這樣的說法嗎我贊同委員的看法\n\n03:46.231 --> 04:13.440\n對,所以我要具體的去跟主委說,我們去比較我只要用泰國,因為泰國過去我們都說泰國移工阿現在人家泰國,他們都引進移工,他們都到了55%那我們在相對於台灣,我們還在用傳統的五個等級就是3K5級制的一個適用從A++到ABCD,然後他們各差5%\n\n04:14.560 --> 04:36.172\n最多到35%那如果他又再提高了他就用就業安定金金基本上這樣的政策你把它看起來如果你在C級啦C級的部分我跟他要請一個移工我定義要請六個六個本國籍人士對產業來說我不是不請這六個本國籍人士捏是我根本這六個我請不上\n\n04:42.944 --> 05:05.202\n並不是說我不請啊我願意去聘請可是我請不上這六個所以我既然請不上這六個我就沒辦法去請一個移工來來我的公司做行會我是用C級的喔如果你用到D級的話D級的話是用電子零組件那又涉及到的科技產業喔又涉及到的科技業所以你回到D級的話我要請一個移工我要請十個十個\n\n05:08.084 --> 05:13.856\n本國籍勞工問題就我這十個就找不到啊像沒人啊\n\n05:15.246 --> 05:42.098\n所以這個比例來說我覺得以現階段我們不要講少子話我們就是講現在大家對於所謂工作的太陽的思考在改變年輕人他可能會選擇說我透過AI的時代我可以在網路上工作我可以更自由更有彈性的工作型態這是他們要的工作型態那如果是受僱於產業這個不是他們理想的受僱型態的時候\n\n05:44.019 --> 05:53.189\n企業也要跟著調整國家的法令也要跟著調整啊好不好主委我最好和你共存這個我們會找勞動部來討論一下那你們的想法是怎樣\n\n05:54.517 --> 06:17.857\n以我對產業的認知跟壓力的了解我是希望能放寬是最好啦因為泰國事實上在2018年人口開始消失他們到2024年人口會開始進入萎縮那所以他們很快的就制定了外勞法以後就開放的很快那我們可能有很多內部不同的聲音要被解決所以我想我找我們會找勞動部來討論這件事情\n\n06:20.078 --> 06:33.155\n我是覺得要正視這問題而且這件事不要再拖我當然知道說很多政策的制定它會有不同的想法會有不同的意見但是這些意見中視要有被\n\n06:34.403 --> 06:51.333\n有一方退讓就是說服的過程必須要減短就是要一方要退讓嘛對到底什麼怎樣才是對於國家產業是正確的啊所以我覺得這個東西你們真的就是趕快深入調查你們要趕快去了解現在所謂我們對於勞動力他們就業的狀況我剛才說的這麼多我認為那些都是現主席真的要緊面對的總統\n\n06:59.637 --> 07:12.917\n我的看法是跟你一致的啦我會來努力一下好那這部分讓主委要趕快費心因為我們國發會是站在整個國家的布局是非常的重要產業布局那第二個勒我再跟主委說一下現在\n\n07:15.180 --> 07:17.422\n我們在討論這個中高齡重返職場那這個中高齡重返職場他是需要這個中高齡他們不管是心態的一個調適或者是他們的生活習慣\n\n07:31.136 --> 07:36.818\n所以我們事實上也做了一些數據的調查就是說針對45歲以上中高齡重返職場事實上我們從這個民調顯示是非常的悲觀就是說有高達為這個民調認為說重返職場是輕鬆的只有0.8%\n\n07:53.866 --> 08:10.969\n只有0.8%所以你看起來勒是將近九成的人都認為重返職場是有困難或者是有壓力所以他要做是說中高齡第一個要重返職場困難那這個困難來自於說產業可能已經有替代能力他現在這個人要回去\n\n08:12.410 --> 08:27.624\n是有困難還是說他整個心態的轉變但是我想台灣有一個狀況我們對於65歲以上的勞動參與率相對於韓國相對於新加坡相對於日本韓國新加坡是30%日本是25%我們台灣65歲以上的勞動參與率只有10%\n\n08:32.268 --> 08:51.641\n這部分我覺得我們也可以檢討擴大整個勞動力勞動力的參與才是我們經濟發展的主要的一個一個基石好不好好的所以主委我剛才一部分這一點有納入我們的人才策略裡面那我們可能會想要建議這個成立一個這個人口對策的辦公室來\n\n08:52.441 --> 09:01.012\n好,這個兩行都很要緊,我講這兩行,都是勞動力一定要最棒的提高,不然現在所有台灣的三頁,大家要叫好不好,主委。好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.509,"end":14.398,"text":"歡迎時間6加2謝謝昭偉那我們是不是有請國發會主委蔡委員早"},{"start":24.653,"end":39.089,"text":"好 主委我想要就教主委那行政院在9月的時候針對國家人才的競爭力躍升方案那有一個四年期的計畫那它鎖定的有包括AI的人才以及綠色領域跨域"},{"start":41.754,"end":69.888,"text":"跨域的人文數位人才那我們希望在2028年要到45萬的人次那包括說要新增12萬名外國專業人才那擴增8萬名外國技術能力那我想要請教主委的就是說好我們2028年要新增這樣外國的專業人才那外國的技術能力到台灣來那你們的具體計畫是什麼"},{"start":71.718,"end":95.637,"text":"好的我們具體計畫是透過幾種方式第一個是放寬法令鬆綁讓人才更容易進來那尤其是我們也比較了日本、新加坡、韓國等地還有澳洲這些跟我們搶人才的地方做一個比較那之後呢我們現在也集合了各部會正在修訂法令我們希望在年底送進立法院來審議你也很清楚"},{"start":98.56,"end":101.548,"text":"現在外國的人才要進來最主要是法令的"},{"start":103.447,"end":131.244,"text":"的限制就是說我們如果沒有鬆綁現行的法令的情況之下外國人是進不來的啊你不管是專業人才或者是我們現在我們知道台灣各行各業都在缺工缺工的情況之下我相信主委你到民間的所有的企業你去找一找你會查這個缺工的狀況多嚴重啊對那既然缺工的狀況是這麼的嚴重我們都知道那我想要跟主委說的就是說我們看"},{"start":132.267,"end":152.969,"text":"有一個國家叫做泰國泰國他們在於這十年過去我們台灣都把泰國當作我們的移工的一個重點的來源國結果連泰國這個國家他們都正視到了他們自己國內也是缺工嚴重所以他們在過去這十年他們就把他們整個"},{"start":155.471,"end":175.6,"text":"這個整個國家的一個員工做了一個大幅度的調整那從2014年他們針對外國的一個聘用的一個外國人的聘用就增加160萬所以他們的所有的這個社會體系的僱員就已經55%以上都是外籍勞工"},{"start":177.441,"end":195.971,"text":"55%這是泰國這個國家那我們可以想像說他們基本上他們的勞動力已經比台灣充足的情況之下他們還鬆綁法令到了現在55%以上可以聘用外籍僱員那所以外國的勞工現在總數也是到達了他們歷史的一個巔峰"},{"start":196.471,"end":225.611,"text":"那可以看出說他們基本上大家都知道說我要保護國內的勞動力保護國內的年輕人有就業機會但是這個前提必須在於說年輕人到底選擇怎樣的就業如果這個就業機會是年輕人沒有意願的那我們還僵在這邊然後一直不把所謂移工的政策給他大幅的鬆綁這個是不利台灣整體的經濟發展主委你贊同我這樣的說法嗎我贊同委員的看法"},{"start":226.231,"end":253.44,"text":"對,所以我要具體的去跟主委說,我們去比較我只要用泰國,因為泰國過去我們都說泰國移工阿現在人家泰國,他們都引進移工,他們都到了55%那我們在相對於台灣,我們還在用傳統的五個等級就是3K5級制的一個適用從A++到ABCD,然後他們各差5%"},{"start":254.56,"end":276.172,"text":"最多到35%那如果他又再提高了他就用就業安定金金基本上這樣的政策你把它看起來如果你在C級啦C級的部分我跟他要請一個移工我定義要請六個六個本國籍人士對產業來說我不是不請這六個本國籍人士捏是我根本這六個我請不上"},{"start":282.944,"end":305.202,"text":"並不是說我不請啊我願意去聘請可是我請不上這六個所以我既然請不上這六個我就沒辦法去請一個移工來來我的公司做行會我是用C級的喔如果你用到D級的話D級的話是用電子零組件那又涉及到的科技產業喔又涉及到的科技業所以你回到D級的話我要請一個移工我要請十個十個"},{"start":308.084,"end":313.856,"text":"本國籍勞工問題就我這十個就找不到啊像沒人啊"},{"start":315.246,"end":342.098,"text":"所以這個比例來說我覺得以現階段我們不要講少子話我們就是講現在大家對於所謂工作的太陽的思考在改變年輕人他可能會選擇說我透過AI的時代我可以在網路上工作我可以更自由更有彈性的工作型態這是他們要的工作型態那如果是受僱於產業這個不是他們理想的受僱型態的時候"},{"start":344.019,"end":353.189,"text":"企業也要跟著調整國家的法令也要跟著調整啊好不好 主委我最好和你共存這個我們會找勞動部來討論一下那你們的想法是怎樣"},{"start":354.517,"end":377.857,"text":"以我對產業的認知跟壓力的了解我是希望能放寬是最好啦因為泰國事實上在2018年人口開始消失他們到2024年人口會開始進入萎縮那所以他們很快的就制定了外勞法以後就開放的很快那我們可能有很多內部不同的聲音要被解決所以我想我找我們會找勞動部來討論這件事情"},{"start":380.078,"end":393.155,"text":"我是覺得要正視這問題而且這件事不要再拖我當然知道說很多政策的制定它會有不同的想法會有不同的意見但是這些意見中視要有被"},{"start":394.403,"end":411.333,"text":"有一方退讓就是說服的過程必須要減短就是要一方要退讓嘛對到底什麼怎樣才是對於國家產業是正確的啊所以我覺得這個東西你們真的就是趕快深入調查你們要趕快去了解現在所謂我們對於勞動力他們就業的狀況我剛才說的這麼多我認為那些都是現主席真的要緊面對的總統"},{"start":419.637,"end":432.917,"text":"我的看法是跟你一致的啦我會來努力一下好那這部分讓主委要趕快費心因為我們國發會是站在整個國家的布局是非常的重要產業布局那第二個勒我再跟主委說一下現在"},{"start":435.18,"end":437.422,"text":"我們在討論這個中高齡重返職場那這個中高齡重返職場他是需要這個中高齡他們不管是心態的一個調適或者是他們的生活習慣"},{"start":451.136,"end":456.818,"text":"所以我們事實上也做了一些數據的調查就是說針對45歲以上中高齡重返職場事實上我們從這個民調顯示是非常的悲觀就是說有高達為這個民調認為說重返職場是輕鬆的只有0.8%"},{"start":473.866,"end":490.969,"text":"只有0.8%所以你看起來勒是將近九成的人都認為重返職場是有困難或者是有壓力所以他要做是說中高齡第一個要重返職場困難那這個困難來自於說產業可能已經有替代能力他現在這個人要回去"},{"start":492.41,"end":507.624,"text":"是有困難還是說他整個心態的轉變但是我想台灣有一個狀況我們對於65歲以上的勞動參與率相對於韓國相對於新加坡相對於日本韓國新加坡是30%日本是25%我們台灣65歲以上的勞動參與率只有10%"},{"start":512.268,"end":531.641,"text":"這部分我覺得我們也可以檢討擴大整個勞動力勞動力的參與才是我們經濟發展的主要的一個一個基石好不好好的所以主委我剛才一部分這一點有納入我們的人才策略裡面那我們可能會想要建議這個成立一個這個人口對策的辦公室來"},{"start":532.441,"end":541.012,"text":"好,這個兩行都很要緊,我講這兩行,都是勞動力一定要最棒的提高,不然現在所有台灣的三頁,大家要叫好不好,主委。好,謝謝。"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:02:18 - 11:11:20","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155137,"gazette":{"lineno":468,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時2分）謝謝召委，是不是有請國發會劉主委？"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：蔡委員早。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，我想要就教主委，行政院在9月的時候，針對國家人才競爭力躍升方案有一個4年期的計畫，它鎖定的有AI人才、綠色領域及跨域人文數位人才，希望在2028年要到45萬人次，包括要新增12萬名外國專業人才，擴增8萬名外國技術人力，我想要請教主委的是，我們2028年要新增外國的專業人才，讓外國的技術人力到臺灣來，那你們的具體計畫是什麼？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的，我們具體計畫是透過幾種方式，第一個是放寬法令鬆綁，讓人才更容易進來，尤其是我們也比較了日本、新加坡、韓國等地，還有澳洲，這些跟我們搶人才的地方做一個比較，我們現在也集合了各部會正在修訂法令，希望在年底送進立法院來審議。這個吸引人才……"],["蔡委員易餘：所以主委你也很清楚，現在外國的人才要進來，最主要是法令的限制。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：就是說我們如果沒有鬆綁現行法令的情況之下，外國人是進不來的啊！不管是專業人才，或者是我們知道現在臺灣各行各業都在缺工，缺工的情況之下，我相信主委你到民間所有的企業去走一趟，你就知道缺工的狀況多嚴重啊！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：既然缺工的狀況這麼嚴重我們都知道，我想要跟主委說的是，有一個國家叫做泰國，泰國他們在這10年，過去我們臺灣都把泰國當作是移工的重點來源國，結果連泰國這個國家都正視到他們自己國內也是缺工嚴重，所以他們在過去這10年把整個國家的員工做了一個大幅度的調整，從2014年開始，他們針對外國人的聘用增加了160萬，所以他們社會體系的雇員已經有55%以上都是外籍勞工，55%，這是泰國這個國家。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：那我們可以想像，基本上他們的勞動力已經比臺灣充足的情況之下，他們還鬆綁法令，到現在55%以上可以聘用外籍雇員，所以外國勞工現在的總數也是到達了他們歷史的巔峰。","基本上，大家都知道要保護國內的勞動力，保護國內的年輕人有就業機會，但是這個前提必須在於年輕人到底選擇怎樣的就業，如果這個就業機會是年輕人沒有意願的，那我們還僵在這邊，然後一直不把移工政策大幅地鬆綁，這個是不利臺灣整體的經濟發展，主委，你贊成我這樣的說法嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我贊同委員的看法。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，所以我要具體地跟主委說，我們去比較，我為什麼提到泰國，因為過去我們都說泰國移工，現在人家泰國也都引進移工，他們都到了55%。","相對於臺灣，我們還在用傳統的5個等級，就是3K五級制的適用，從A+（A plus）到A、B、C、D，然後它們各差5%，最多到35%，如果它又再提高了，它就用就業安定基金。基本上這樣的政策看起來，如果是在C級，我光是請1個移工，等於要請6個本國籍人士，好，對產業來說，我不是不請這6個本國籍人士耶！是這6個我根本請不足！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：請不到人。"],["蔡委員易餘：並不是說我不請啊！我願意去聘請，可是我請不足這6個，既然我請不足這6個，我就沒辦法去請1個移工來我的公司工作，我是用C級的喔！如果你用到D級的話，事實上電子零組件它又涉及到了科技產業喔！又涉及到了科技業，所以回到D級的話，我如果要請1個移工，我要請個10個本國籍的勞工，問題是這10個我就找不到啊！請不到人啊！所以從這一個比例來說，我覺得以現階段，我們不要講少子化，就講現在大家對於工作態樣的思考在改變，年輕人可能會選擇透過AI的時代，可以在網路上工作，可以更自由更有彈性的工作型態，這是他們要的工作型態，如果是受僱於產業，這個不是他們理想的受僱型態的時候，企業也要跟著調整，國家的法令也要跟著調整啊！好不好？主委，最後讓你講一下。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，這個我們會找勞動部來討論一下。"],["蔡委員易餘：那你們的想法是怎樣？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：以我對產業的認知跟壓力的瞭解，我們希望能放寬是最好啦！因為泰國事實上在2018年人口紅利開始消失，他們到2024年人口會開始進入萎縮，所以他們很快地制定外勞法以後就開放得很快，那我們可能有很多內部不同的聲音要被解決，所以我們會找勞動部來討論這件事情。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，我覺得要正視這個問題，而且這件事不要再拖，我當然知道很多政策的制定它會有不同的想法，會有不同的意見，但是這些意見終是有一方要退讓，說服的過程必須要減短，就是有一方要退讓嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：到底怎樣才是對國家產業是正確的啊！所以我覺得這個東西你們真的要趕快深入調查，你們要趕快去瞭解現在勞動力就業的狀況，我剛才說了這麼多……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，我瞭解。"],["蔡委員易餘：我覺得那都是現在真的要趕快面對的狀況。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我的看法跟你是一致的，我會來努力一下。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，這部分請主委要趕快費心，因為國發會站在整個國家的產業布局是非常重要的。","第二個，我再跟主委說一下，現在我們在討論中高齡重返職場，而中高齡重返職場不管是心態的調適或者是生活習慣，事實上我們也做了一些數據的調查，針對45歲以上中高齡重返職場，從民調顯示是非常悲觀，認為重返職場是輕鬆的只有0.8%，看起來有將近9成的人都認為重返職場是有困難或者是有壓力，所以第一個，中高齡要重返職場困難，這個困難來自於產業可能已經有替代人力，現在這個人要回去是有困難，還是說他們整個心態的轉變，但是臺灣有一個狀況，我們對於65歲以上的勞動參與率，相對於韓國、新加坡、日本，韓國、新加坡是30%，日本是25%，我們臺灣65歲以上的勞動參與率只有10%。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：這部分我覺得我們也可以檢討。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：擴大整個勞動力的參與……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：才是我們經濟發展一個主要的基石，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以主委，我覺得這部分……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，這一點有納入我們的人才策略裡面……"],["主席：好，謝謝，發言時間到。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們可能會建議成立一個人口對策的辦公室來因應。"],["蔡委員易餘：我說的這兩項都很要緊，勞動力一定要想辦法提高，不然現在臺灣所有的產業大家都哀哀叫，好不好？主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是，謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝蔡易餘委員精準的發言，請回座。","下一位質詢請鄭天財，6加2。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}}