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\"後\", \"start\": 724.672, \"end\": 724.992, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 724.992, \"end\": 725.193, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 725.193, \"end\": 725.514, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 725.514, \"end\": 725.594, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 725.594, \"end\": 725.734, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 725.734, \"end\": 725.935, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 725.935, \"end\": 726.115, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 726.115, \"end\": 726.456, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 726.456, \"end\": 726.596, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 726.596, \"end\": 726.636, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 726.636, \"end\": 726.656, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"?\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,157 --> 00:00:11,838\n好,謝主席。我們有請部長。\n\n2\n00:00:19,346 --> 00:00:41,698\n好,部長好,本會期第一次見面,教育的議題,不論幼教、特教、國教、高教、成教等等,我們都有政策要很多的要來討論,任中道遠。部長,加油。謝謝。那我想上週我們這個三坨的颱風來襲,看到很多的一些狀況,不管是屋頂啊、路牌啊、亂飛啊,我們都非常感到憂心。\n\n3\n00:00:42,458 --> 00:01:07,834\n那教育部在10月3號初步估計有11所學校有受損那目前呢過了一個禮拜了再加上基隆北海岸的一個地區上週五大豪雨教育部是否有詳細的受災或者是財損的一個狀況影響到受我們的孩子的受教權益有沒有更新?更為更為報告謝委員的這一個關心這個災損我們確實現在有139的\n\n4\n00:01:12,711 --> 00:01:22,879\n五百二十六的一個學校裡邊那整個災損目前估計是大概三點六億好十月三號十一所現在五百多所\n\n5\n00:01:24,090 --> 00:01:51,741\n那82萬變成3點多億我想這個數字上有很大的一個差異才過了一週喔是那我想爭取老舊校舍的改建特別編列預算喔我也有一個臨時動議待會會提出那我想國內超過50年的屋齡老舊校舍呢有2200餘棟超過30年的一個屋齡大概8300多棟針對老舊校舍的改建喔行政院一般性的補助只有37.5億\n\n6\n00:01:53,582 --> 00:02:12,184\n那我想針對這個部分行政院甚至是公然灌水說最近投入了千億元這千億元我想明明就是包括了班班有平板、班班有冷氣、班班有網路、校園跑道整修以及廁所整修、電力的一個改善整整\n\n7\n00:02:13,547 --> 00:02:37,099\n真正用在老舊校舍補助的部分是少之又少那我想9月30號的聯合報報導指出我想您也很清楚有縣市教育局的官員表示中央編列這樣子的一個金額太少單一縣市每年只改建3到4所的一個學校請問這樣子的預算編列針對老舊校舍我們要到什麼時候才能夠整體完成\n\n8\n00:02:38,320 --> 00:03:07,980\n根委員報告這一個可能要在這邊根委員再補充說明事實上這個從九二一大地震以後這個98年到1111年總共前後有14年事實上是這個不管哪一個政黨這個執政事實上都是共同看到這個校園這個建築教學用的這些這個教室啊怎麼樣去改善它的一個防震跟這個安全上的一些考量\n\n9\n00:03:08,961 --> 00:03:13,125\n總共投入了1315億,這是14年的累積,總共改善了包含補強及危險教室拆建總共有8788棟\n\n10\n00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:53,274\n那跟委員報告這個就是在9月1、民國88年以前許多的防震系數教室老舊教室裡邊大概全面地毯式的搜索有一萬七千多筆裡邊做了初步的這14年的改善大概跟委員報告就是說特別要說的是在這個之前我們大概做了一個地毯式的一個\n\n11\n00:03:54,575 --> 00:04:20,627\n會有危險的必須要立即改善的跟拆除的大概這到11年是做了一個段落上的一個階段性的一個這個我就想問第二個問題現在的補助款有88%都是結構性的一個補強只有12%是拆除重建請問這是教育局做過專業的評估不需要重建就可以達到的安全標準還是單純為了省錢沒有跟委員報告這都是有專業的一個評估\n\n12\n00:04:22,526 --> 00:04:48,593\n做這樣的一個處理的好我想評估的科學標準是什麼家長都非常的憂心我們擔心這是治標不治本當然你們說這是有專業的科學依據我想今年四月花蓮大地震全台灣有1080所學校受損因為地震被震成圍樓的花蓮女中綜合大樓屋齡只有36年跟其他地區的老舊校舍比起來還算年輕可能\n\n13\n00:04:49,153 --> 00:05:10,275\n就會優先重建超過50年最危險的老舊校舍但是事實證明即使只有36年的花女綜合大樓遇到地震一樣會倒所以部長能不能承諾我們應該用最嚴格的標準以重建代替補強而不是用省錢的標準來看待老舊校舍的重建\n\n14\n00:05:11,637 --> 00:05:30,806\n跟委員報告,確實所有的這個校舍的一個改建我們是以安全做唯一的一個規準部長我想在我自己的這個選區啊有老舊校舍不是只有老跟舊的一個問題有的就沒有實照那這個問題其實對我們都非常擔憂那可以說這就是違建了嘛\n\n15\n00:05:31,286 --> 00:05:49,620\n那所以部長面對全台灣有14萬學童在危險上課台灣地區屬於地震帶的部分雖然有地震相處已是日常但是我們不能掉以輕心啊老舊校舍的改建你只向行政院爭取了公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計畫114年到117年度350億350億不是會太少了嗎?你不覺得你太客氣了嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:11,880\n跟委員報告這個我想有一些我們內部的一些在老舊教室的一個這個補強跟這個圍樓的拆遷有一些新的一個數據我想是不是容我會後再補送給這個委員\n\n17\n00:06:13,362 --> 00:06:24,947\n我們一起來瞭解但是我想過去8年為了國人的安全政府編列2370億海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算2472億新式戰機採購特別預算也編了1000億特別預算役駐勞健寶以及台電公司編列前瞻預算特別預算8800億用於軌道建設、水資源環境、城鄉建設等等\n\n18\n00:06:39,454 --> 00:06:52,350\n我們都可以認同但是部長窮不能窮教育阿依此特別預算編列的脈絡背景我主張編列特別預算用於老舊校舍改建請問部長支持嗎\n\n19\n00:06:53,444 --> 00:07:12,851\n我想我們老舊校舍的一個改建其實也要跟委員報告有一些教授就是50年他還是我們經過專業評估是安全的對學校的歷史、文化、共同的校友的記憶他是有價值的所以我們其實有時候我們反而看到\n\n20\n00:07:13,371 --> 00:07:13,591\n主席的解釋\n\n21\n00:07:38,955 --> 00:07:57,728\n本席要幫你向行政院要錢那基本上這個部分我們希望編列特別預算就是保障我們的學童安全我們一起共同來為他們努力那我也希望你在要這樣子的相關預算的時候不要客氣我們會做你的後盾我們希望這個部分應該要去加強\n\n22\n00:07:58,689 --> 00:08:11,238\n老舊校舍真的是我們非常擔憂的一個部分確實行政院在這個部分也給教育部相當大的一些支持也謝謝委員的一個關心好那有請我們農業部督事長\n\n23\n00:08:15,728 --> 00:08:40,024\n我想我們也要爭取養奶也要納入班班有鮮奶的一個政策我想我有一些分享想要跟你來做一個探討班班有鮮奶的政策主要是針對紐西蘭進口的液態乳明年進口關稅將降至為零為了降低台灣農業的一個衝擊農業部與教育部所做的一個合作請問部長跟次長知不知道台灣有多少人有乳糖不耐症\n\n24\n00:08:43,095 --> 00:08:51,354\n市長您知道嗎?我們目前訂購涵蓋豆奶的比例大概3點多%\n\n25\n00:08:52,988 --> 00:08:54,029\n臺灣人有88%有乳糖不耐症\n\n26\n00:09:13,647 --> 00:09:36,475\n有說亞洲人有95%的人有乳糖不耐症最保守的也說有一半左右的人有乳糖不耐症我不知道哪個資訊是為真但是我想乳糖不耐症的人口應該是一個不少的人口所以值得我們去重視當然教育部是說開放豆漿作為替代品所以本來就不會有所有人都喝鮮乳甚至有超過一半的人口\n\n27\n00:09:36,735 --> 00:09:41,859\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長\n\n28\n00:10:00,535 --> 00:10:17,953\n章化縣府的一個調查有3%的選擇學校選擇豆漿83%的學生選擇了包酒乳真正選擇鮮奶的也是真正幫助到弱農業的部分僅有14%要讓所有人喝鮮奶來拯救弱農但是只有14%的學生真的有喝這\n\n29\n00:10:19,514 --> 00:10:32,411\n要讓是不是有像我們之前班班有時班一樣都是中央喊口號實際卻辦不到所以想詢問一下部長跟次長牛奶跟鮮奶這兩者的營養有什麼差別你們知道嗎\n\n30\n00:10:35,125 --> 00:10:50,219\n臺灣自己的弱農產業非常好,我們當然希望提供最好的乳品,特別是臺灣鮮奶給我們的學童。目前訂購的狀況是,鮮乳採購的比例大概三成多,六成多都是薄酒乳,這是我們現在看到的狀況。\n\n31\n00:10:51,617 --> 00:11:17,113\n我想說我剛剛問的是這個牛乳跟羊乳的差別我還是要講一下我想主要差異基本上兩者差異極低但是主要差異在於乳糖含量較低造成乳糖不耐症的一個風險也較低所以我想羊乳不管是本草綱目有記載我想以及包括我們研究指出它的一個弱蛋白跟牛乳的弱蛋白種類不一樣較不引起腹痛脹氣等問題\n\n32\n00:11:18,174 --> 00:11:35,216\n所以我想幫羊乳也說一個話讓大家有更多的選擇當然我們在整個今天的委員會也有在探討現在將這些牛乳或者是保酒乳不管怎麼樣廠商送到學校再經由老師送到學生這樣的過程當中冷鏈有沒有問題\n\n33\n00:11:35,917 --> 00:12:04,091\n這樣的過程當中行政會不會增加更多老師的負擔老師有教學的負擔有行政負擔現在還有所謂的班班有鮮乳要幫忙協助送達的一個負擔我們希望在這樣的一個配合過程當中應該要考量到學生的健康之外還要考量到教學的品質以及老師是否有過勞的一個狀況我想這個部分農業部應該要來極力的協助教育部這部分杜市長\n\n34\n00:12:04,672 --> 00:12:06,656\n會議後有相關的檢討,是不是能夠給我一下?\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10157\t11838\t好,謝主席。我們有請部長。\n19346\t41698\t好,部長好,本會期第一次見面,教育的議題,不論幼教、特教、國教、高教、成教等等,我們都有政策要很多的要來討論,任中道遠。部長,加油。謝謝。那我想上週我們這個三坨的颱風來襲,看到很多的一些狀況,不管是屋頂啊、路牌啊、亂飛啊,我們都非常感到憂心。\n42458\t67834\t那教育部在10月3號初步估計有11所學校有受損那目前呢過了一個禮拜了再加上基隆北海岸的一個地區上週五大豪雨教育部是否有詳細的受災或者是財損的一個狀況影響到受我們的孩子的受教權益有沒有更新?更為 更為 報告謝委員的這一個關心這個災損我們確實現在有139的\n72711\t82879\t五百二十六的一個學校裡邊那整個災損目前估計是大概三點六億好十月三號十一所現在五百多所\n84090\t111741\t那82萬變成3點多億我想這個數字上有很大的一個差異才過了一週喔是那我想爭取老舊校舍的改建特別編列預算喔我也有一個臨時動議待會會提出那我想國內超過50年的屋齡老舊校舍呢有2200餘棟超過30年的一個屋齡大概8300多棟針對老舊校舍的改建喔行政院一般性的補助只有37.5億\n113582\t132184\t那我想針對這個部分行政院甚至是公然灌水說最近投入了千億元這千億元我想明明就是包括了班班有平板、班班有冷氣、班班有網路、校園跑道整修以及廁所整修、電力的一個改善整整\n133547\t157099\t真正用在老舊校舍補助的部分是少之又少那我想9月30號的聯合報報導指出我想您也很清楚有縣市教育局的官員表示中央編列這樣子的一個金額太少單一縣市每年只改建3到4所的一個學校請問這樣子的預算編列針對老舊校舍我們要到什麼時候才能夠整體完成\n158320\t187980\t根委員報告這一個可能要在這邊根委員再補充說明事實上這個從九二一大地震以後這個98年到1111年總共前後有14年事實上是這個不管哪一個政黨這個執政事實上都是共同看到這個校園這個建築教學用的這些這個教室啊怎麼樣去改善它的一個防震跟這個安全上的一些考量\n188961\t193125\t總共投入了1315億,這是14年的累積,總共改善了包含補強及危險教室拆建總共有8788棟\n208880\t233274\t那跟委員報告這個就是在9月1、民國88年以前許多的防震系數教室老舊教室裡邊大概全面地毯式的搜索有一萬七千多筆裡邊做了初步的這14年的改善大概跟委員報告就是說特別要說的是在這個之前我們大概做了一個地毯式的一個\n234575\t260627\t會有危險的必須要立即改善的跟拆除的大概這到11年是做了一個段落上的一個階段性的一個這個我就想問第二個問題現在的補助款有88%都是結構性的一個補強只有12%是拆除重建請問這是教育局做過專業的評估不需要重建就可以達到的安全標準還是單純為了省錢沒有跟委員報告這都是有專業的一個評估\n262526\t288593\t做這樣的一個處理的好我想評估的科學標準是什麼家長都非常的憂心我們擔心這是治標不治本當然你們說這是有專業的科學依據我想今年四月花蓮大地震全台灣有1080所學校受損因為地震被震成圍樓的花蓮女中綜合大樓屋齡只有36年跟其他地區的老舊校舍比起來還算年輕可能\n289153\t310275\t就會優先重建超過50年最危險的老舊校舍但是事實證明即使只有36年的花女綜合大樓遇到地震一樣會倒所以部長能不能承諾我們應該用最嚴格的標準以重建代替補強而不是用省錢的標準來看待老舊校舍的重建\n311637\t330806\t跟委員報告,確實所有的這個校舍的一個改建我們是以安全做唯一的一個規準部長我想在我自己的這個選區啊有老舊校舍不是只有老跟舊的一個問題有的就沒有實照那這個問題其實對我們都非常擔憂那可以說這就是違建了嘛\n331286\t349620\t那所以部長面對全台灣有14萬學童在危險上課台灣地區屬於地震帶的部分雖然有地震相處已是日常但是我們不能掉以輕心啊老舊校舍的改建你只向行政院爭取了公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計畫114年到117年度350億350億不是會太少了嗎?你不覺得你太客氣了嗎?\n357279\t371880\t跟委員報告這個我想有一些我們內部的一些在老舊教室的一個這個補強跟這個圍樓的拆遷有一些新的一個數據我想是不是容我會後再補送給這個委員\n373362\t384947\t我們一起來瞭解但是我想過去8年為了國人的安全政府編列2370億海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算2472億新式戰機採購特別預算也編了1000億特別預算役駐勞健寶以及台電公司編列前瞻預算特別預算8800億用於軌道建設、水資源環境、城鄉建設等等\n399454\t412350\t我們都可以認同但是部長窮不能窮教育阿依此特別預算編列的脈絡背景我主張編列特別預算用於老舊校舍改建請問部長支持嗎\n413444\t432851\t我想我們老舊校舍的一個改建其實也要跟委員報告有一些教授就是50年他還是我們經過專業評估是安全的對學校的歷史、文化、共同的校友的記憶他是有價值的所以我們其實有時候我們反而看到\n433371\t433591\t主席的解釋\n458955\t477728\t本席要幫你向行政院要錢那基本上這個部分我們希望編列特別預算就是保障我們的學童安全我們一起共同來為他們努力那我也希望你在要這樣子的相關預算的時候不要客氣我們會做你的後盾我們希望這個部分應該要去加強\n478689\t491238\t老舊校舍真的是我們非常擔憂的一個部分確實行政院在這個部分也給教育部相當大的一些支持也謝謝委員的一個關心好那有請我們農業部督事長\n495728\t520024\t我想我們也要爭取養奶也要納入班班有鮮奶的一個政策我想我有一些分享想要跟你來做一個探討班班有鮮奶的政策主要是針對紐西蘭進口的液態乳明年進口關稅將降至為零為了降低台灣農業的一個衝擊農業部與教育部所做的一個合作請問部長跟次長知不知道台灣有多少人有乳糖不耐症\n523095\t531354\t市長您知道嗎?我們目前訂購涵蓋豆奶的比例大概3點多%\n532988\t534029\t臺灣人有88%有乳糖不耐症\n553647\t576475\t有說亞洲人有95%的人有乳糖不耐症最保守的也說有一半左右的人有乳糖不耐症我不知道哪個資訊是為真但是我想乳糖不耐症的人口應該是一個不少的人口所以值得我們去重視當然教育部是說開放豆漿作為替代品所以本來就不會有所有人都喝鮮乳甚至有超過一半的人口\n576735\t581859\t二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長\n600535\t617953\t章化縣府的一個調查有3%的選擇學校選擇豆漿83%的學生選擇了包酒乳真正選擇鮮奶的也是真正幫助到弱農業的部分僅有14%要讓所有人喝鮮奶來拯救弱農但是只有14%的學生真的有喝這\n619514\t632411\t要讓是不是有像我們之前班班有時班一樣都是中央喊口號實際卻辦不到所以想詢問一下部長跟次長牛奶跟鮮奶這兩者的營養有什麼差別你們知道嗎\n635125\t650219\t臺灣自己的弱農產業非常好,我們當然希望提供最好的乳品,特別是臺灣鮮奶給我們的學童。目前訂購的狀況是,鮮乳採購的比例大概三成多,六成多都是薄酒乳,這是我們現在看到的狀況。\n651617\t677113\t我想說我剛剛問的是這個牛乳跟羊乳的差別我還是要講一下我想主要差異基本上兩者差異極低但是主要差異在於乳糖含量較低造成乳糖不耐症的一個風險也較低所以我想羊乳不管是本草綱目有記載我想以及包括我們研究指出它的一個弱蛋白跟牛乳的弱蛋白種類不一樣較不引起腹痛脹氣等問題\n678174\t695216\t所以我想幫羊乳也說一個話讓大家有更多的選擇當然我們在整個今天的委員會也有在探討現在將這些牛乳或者是保酒乳不管怎麼樣廠商送到學校再經由老師送到學生這樣的過程當中冷鏈有沒有問題\n695917\t724091\t這樣的過程當中行政會不會增加更多老師的負擔老師有教學的負擔有行政負擔現在還有所謂的班班有鮮乳要幫忙協助送達的一個負擔我們希望在這樣的一個配合過程當中應該要考量到學生的健康之外還要考量到教學的品質以及老師是否有過勞的一個狀況我想這個部分農業部應該要來極力的協助教育部這部分杜市長\n724672\t726656\t會議後有相關的檢討,是不是能夠給我一下?\n","txt":"好,謝主席。我們有請部長。\n好,部長好,本會期第一次見面,教育的議題,不論幼教、特教、國教、高教、成教等等,我們都有政策要很多的要來討論,任中道遠。部長,加油。謝謝。那我想上週我們這個三坨的颱風來襲,看到很多的一些狀況,不管是屋頂啊、路牌啊、亂飛啊,我們都非常感到憂心。\n那教育部在10月3號初步估計有11所學校有受損那目前呢過了一個禮拜了再加上基隆北海岸的一個地區上週五大豪雨教育部是否有詳細的受災或者是財損的一個狀況影響到受我們的孩子的受教權益有沒有更新?更為 更為 報告謝委員的這一個關心這個災損我們確實現在有139的\n五百二十六的一個學校裡邊那整個災損目前估計是大概三點六億好十月三號十一所現在五百多所\n那82萬變成3點多億我想這個數字上有很大的一個差異才過了一週喔是那我想爭取老舊校舍的改建特別編列預算喔我也有一個臨時動議待會會提出那我想國內超過50年的屋齡老舊校舍呢有2200餘棟超過30年的一個屋齡大概8300多棟針對老舊校舍的改建喔行政院一般性的補助只有37.5億\n那我想針對這個部分行政院甚至是公然灌水說最近投入了千億元這千億元我想明明就是包括了班班有平板、班班有冷氣、班班有網路、校園跑道整修以及廁所整修、電力的一個改善整整\n真正用在老舊校舍補助的部分是少之又少那我想9月30號的聯合報報導指出我想您也很清楚有縣市教育局的官員表示中央編列這樣子的一個金額太少單一縣市每年只改建3到4所的一個學校請問這樣子的預算編列針對老舊校舍我們要到什麼時候才能夠整體完成\n根委員報告這一個可能要在這邊根委員再補充說明事實上這個從九二一大地震以後這個98年到1111年總共前後有14年事實上是這個不管哪一個政黨這個執政事實上都是共同看到這個校園這個建築教學用的這些這個教室啊怎麼樣去改善它的一個防震跟這個安全上的一些考量\n總共投入了1315億,這是14年的累積,總共改善了包含補強及危險教室拆建總共有8788棟\n那跟委員報告這個就是在9月1、民國88年以前許多的防震系數教室老舊教室裡邊大概全面地毯式的搜索有一萬七千多筆裡邊做了初步的這14年的改善大概跟委員報告就是說特別要說的是在這個之前我們大概做了一個地毯式的一個\n會有危險的必須要立即改善的跟拆除的大概這到11年是做了一個段落上的一個階段性的一個這個我就想問第二個問題現在的補助款有88%都是結構性的一個補強只有12%是拆除重建請問這是教育局做過專業的評估不需要重建就可以達到的安全標準還是單純為了省錢沒有跟委員報告這都是有專業的一個評估\n做這樣的一個處理的好我想評估的科學標準是什麼家長都非常的憂心我們擔心這是治標不治本當然你們說這是有專業的科學依據我想今年四月花蓮大地震全台灣有1080所學校受損因為地震被震成圍樓的花蓮女中綜合大樓屋齡只有36年跟其他地區的老舊校舍比起來還算年輕可能\n就會優先重建超過50年最危險的老舊校舍但是事實證明即使只有36年的花女綜合大樓遇到地震一樣會倒所以部長能不能承諾我們應該用最嚴格的標準以重建代替補強而不是用省錢的標準來看待老舊校舍的重建\n跟委員報告,確實所有的這個校舍的一個改建我們是以安全做唯一的一個規準部長我想在我自己的這個選區啊有老舊校舍不是只有老跟舊的一個問題有的就沒有實照那這個問題其實對我們都非常擔憂那可以說這就是違建了嘛\n那所以部長面對全台灣有14萬學童在危險上課台灣地區屬於地震帶的部分雖然有地震相處已是日常但是我們不能掉以輕心啊老舊校舍的改建你只向行政院爭取了公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計畫114年到117年度350億350億不是會太少了嗎?你不覺得你太客氣了嗎?\n跟委員報告這個我想有一些我們內部的一些在老舊教室的一個這個補強跟這個圍樓的拆遷有一些新的一個數據我想是不是容我會後再補送給這個委員\n我們一起來瞭解但是我想過去8年為了國人的安全政府編列2370億海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算2472億新式戰機採購特別預算也編了1000億特別預算役駐勞健寶以及台電公司編列前瞻預算特別預算8800億用於軌道建設、水資源環境、城鄉建設等等\n我們都可以認同但是部長窮不能窮教育阿依此特別預算編列的脈絡背景我主張編列特別預算用於老舊校舍改建請問部長支持嗎\n我想我們老舊校舍的一個改建其實也要跟委員報告有一些教授就是50年他還是我們經過專業評估是安全的對學校的歷史、文化、共同的校友的記憶他是有價值的所以我們其實有時候我們反而看到\n主席的解釋\n本席要幫你向行政院要錢那基本上這個部分我們希望編列特別預算就是保障我們的學童安全我們一起共同來為他們努力那我也希望你在要這樣子的相關預算的時候不要客氣我們會做你的後盾我們希望這個部分應該要去加強\n老舊校舍真的是我們非常擔憂的一個部分確實行政院在這個部分也給教育部相當大的一些支持也謝謝委員的一個關心好那有請我們農業部督事長\n我想我們也要爭取養奶也要納入班班有鮮奶的一個政策我想我有一些分享想要跟你來做一個探討班班有鮮奶的政策主要是針對紐西蘭進口的液態乳明年進口關稅將降至為零為了降低台灣農業的一個衝擊農業部與教育部所做的一個合作請問部長跟次長知不知道台灣有多少人有乳糖不耐症\n市長您知道嗎?我們目前訂購涵蓋豆奶的比例大概3點多%\n臺灣人有88%有乳糖不耐症\n有說亞洲人有95%的人有乳糖不耐症最保守的也說有一半左右的人有乳糖不耐症我不知道哪個資訊是為真但是我想乳糖不耐症的人口應該是一個不少的人口所以值得我們去重視當然教育部是說開放豆漿作為替代品所以本來就不會有所有人都喝鮮乳甚至有超過一半的人口\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長\n章化縣府的一個調查有3%的選擇學校選擇豆漿83%的學生選擇了包酒乳真正選擇鮮奶的也是真正幫助到弱農業的部分僅有14%要讓所有人喝鮮奶來拯救弱農但是只有14%的學生真的有喝這\n要讓是不是有像我們之前班班有時班一樣都是中央喊口號實際卻辦不到所以想詢問一下部長跟次長牛奶跟鮮奶這兩者的營養有什麼差別你們知道嗎\n臺灣自己的弱農產業非常好,我們當然希望提供最好的乳品,特別是臺灣鮮奶給我們的學童。目前訂購的狀況是,鮮乳採購的比例大概三成多,六成多都是薄酒乳,這是我們現在看到的狀況。\n我想說我剛剛問的是這個牛乳跟羊乳的差別我還是要講一下我想主要差異基本上兩者差異極低但是主要差異在於乳糖含量較低造成乳糖不耐症的一個風險也較低所以我想羊乳不管是本草綱目有記載我想以及包括我們研究指出它的一個弱蛋白跟牛乳的弱蛋白種類不一樣較不引起腹痛脹氣等問題\n所以我想幫羊乳也說一個話讓大家有更多的選擇當然我們在整個今天的委員會也有在探討現在將這些牛乳或者是保酒乳不管怎麼樣廠商送到學校再經由老師送到學生這樣的過程當中冷鏈有沒有問題\n這樣的過程當中行政會不會增加更多老師的負擔老師有教學的負擔有行政負擔現在還有所謂的班班有鮮乳要幫忙協助送達的一個負擔我們希望在這樣的一個配合過程當中應該要考量到學生的健康之外還要考量到教學的品質以及老師是否有過勞的一個狀況我想這個部分農業部應該要來極力的協助教育部這部分杜市長\n會議後有相關的檢討,是不是能夠給我一下?\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.157 --> 00:11.838\n好,謝主席。我們有請部長。\n\n00:19.346 --> 00:41.698\n好,部長好,本會期第一次見面,教育的議題,不論幼教、特教、國教、高教、成教等等,我們都有政策要很多的要來討論,任中道遠。部長,加油。謝謝。那我想上週我們這個三坨的颱風來襲,看到很多的一些狀況,不管是屋頂啊、路牌啊、亂飛啊,我們都非常感到憂心。\n\n00:42.458 --> 01:07.834\n那教育部在10月3號初步估計有11所學校有受損那目前呢過了一個禮拜了再加上基隆北海岸的一個地區上週五大豪雨教育部是否有詳細的受災或者是財損的一個狀況影響到受我們的孩子的受教權益有沒有更新?更為更為報告謝委員的這一個關心這個災損我們確實現在有139的\n\n01:12.711 --> 01:22.879\n五百二十六的一個學校裡邊那整個災損目前估計是大概三點六億好十月三號十一所現在五百多所\n\n01:24.090 --> 01:51.741\n那82萬變成3點多億我想這個數字上有很大的一個差異才過了一週喔是那我想爭取老舊校舍的改建特別編列預算喔我也有一個臨時動議待會會提出那我想國內超過50年的屋齡老舊校舍呢有2200餘棟超過30年的一個屋齡大概8300多棟針對老舊校舍的改建喔行政院一般性的補助只有37.5億\n\n01:53.582 --> 02:12.184\n那我想針對這個部分行政院甚至是公然灌水說最近投入了千億元這千億元我想明明就是包括了班班有平板、班班有冷氣、班班有網路、校園跑道整修以及廁所整修、電力的一個改善整整\n\n02:13.547 --> 02:37.099\n真正用在老舊校舍補助的部分是少之又少那我想9月30號的聯合報報導指出我想您也很清楚有縣市教育局的官員表示中央編列這樣子的一個金額太少單一縣市每年只改建3到4所的一個學校請問這樣子的預算編列針對老舊校舍我們要到什麼時候才能夠整體完成\n\n02:38.320 --> 03:07.980\n根委員報告這一個可能要在這邊根委員再補充說明事實上這個從九二一大地震以後這個98年到1111年總共前後有14年事實上是這個不管哪一個政黨這個執政事實上都是共同看到這個校園這個建築教學用的這些這個教室啊怎麼樣去改善它的一個防震跟這個安全上的一些考量\n\n03:08.961 --> 03:13.125\n總共投入了1315億,這是14年的累積,總共改善了包含補強及危險教室拆建總共有8788棟\n\n03:28.880 --> 03:53.274\n那跟委員報告這個就是在9月1、民國88年以前許多的防震系數教室老舊教室裡邊大概全面地毯式的搜索有一萬七千多筆裡邊做了初步的這14年的改善大概跟委員報告就是說特別要說的是在這個之前我們大概做了一個地毯式的一個\n\n03:54.575 --> 04:20.627\n會有危險的必須要立即改善的跟拆除的大概這到11年是做了一個段落上的一個階段性的一個這個我就想問第二個問題現在的補助款有88%都是結構性的一個補強只有12%是拆除重建請問這是教育局做過專業的評估不需要重建就可以達到的安全標準還是單純為了省錢沒有跟委員報告這都是有專業的一個評估\n\n04:22.526 --> 04:48.593\n做這樣的一個處理的好我想評估的科學標準是什麼家長都非常的憂心我們擔心這是治標不治本當然你們說這是有專業的科學依據我想今年四月花蓮大地震全台灣有1080所學校受損因為地震被震成圍樓的花蓮女中綜合大樓屋齡只有36年跟其他地區的老舊校舍比起來還算年輕可能\n\n04:49.153 --> 05:10.275\n就會優先重建超過50年最危險的老舊校舍但是事實證明即使只有36年的花女綜合大樓遇到地震一樣會倒所以部長能不能承諾我們應該用最嚴格的標準以重建代替補強而不是用省錢的標準來看待老舊校舍的重建\n\n05:11.637 --> 05:30.806\n跟委員報告,確實所有的這個校舍的一個改建我們是以安全做唯一的一個規準部長我想在我自己的這個選區啊有老舊校舍不是只有老跟舊的一個問題有的就沒有實照那這個問題其實對我們都非常擔憂那可以說這就是違建了嘛\n\n05:31.286 --> 05:49.620\n那所以部長面對全台灣有14萬學童在危險上課台灣地區屬於地震帶的部分雖然有地震相處已是日常但是我們不能掉以輕心啊老舊校舍的改建你只向行政院爭取了公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計畫114年到117年度350億350億不是會太少了嗎?你不覺得你太客氣了嗎?\n\n05:57.279 --> 06:11.880\n跟委員報告這個我想有一些我們內部的一些在老舊教室的一個這個補強跟這個圍樓的拆遷有一些新的一個數據我想是不是容我會後再補送給這個委員\n\n06:13.362 --> 06:24.947\n我們一起來瞭解但是我想過去8年為了國人的安全政府編列2370億海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算2472億新式戰機採購特別預算也編了1000億特別預算役駐勞健寶以及台電公司編列前瞻預算特別預算8800億用於軌道建設、水資源環境、城鄉建設等等\n\n06:39.454 --> 06:52.350\n我們都可以認同但是部長窮不能窮教育阿依此特別預算編列的脈絡背景我主張編列特別預算用於老舊校舍改建請問部長支持嗎\n\n06:53.444 --> 07:12.851\n我想我們老舊校舍的一個改建其實也要跟委員報告有一些教授就是50年他還是我們經過專業評估是安全的對學校的歷史、文化、共同的校友的記憶他是有價值的所以我們其實有時候我們反而看到\n\n07:13.371 --> 07:13.591\n主席的解釋\n\n07:38.955 --> 07:57.728\n本席要幫你向行政院要錢那基本上這個部分我們希望編列特別預算就是保障我們的學童安全我們一起共同來為他們努力那我也希望你在要這樣子的相關預算的時候不要客氣我們會做你的後盾我們希望這個部分應該要去加強\n\n07:58.689 --> 08:11.238\n老舊校舍真的是我們非常擔憂的一個部分確實行政院在這個部分也給教育部相當大的一些支持也謝謝委員的一個關心好那有請我們農業部督事長\n\n08:15.728 --> 08:40.024\n我想我們也要爭取養奶也要納入班班有鮮奶的一個政策我想我有一些分享想要跟你來做一個探討班班有鮮奶的政策主要是針對紐西蘭進口的液態乳明年進口關稅將降至為零為了降低台灣農業的一個衝擊農業部與教育部所做的一個合作請問部長跟次長知不知道台灣有多少人有乳糖不耐症\n\n08:43.095 --> 08:51.354\n市長您知道嗎?我們目前訂購涵蓋豆奶的比例大概3點多%\n\n08:52.988 --> 08:54.029\n臺灣人有88%有乳糖不耐症\n\n09:13.647 --> 09:36.475\n有說亞洲人有95%的人有乳糖不耐症最保守的也說有一半左右的人有乳糖不耐症我不知道哪個資訊是為真但是我想乳糖不耐症的人口應該是一個不少的人口所以值得我們去重視當然教育部是說開放豆漿作為替代品所以本來就不會有所有人都喝鮮乳甚至有超過一半的人口\n\n09:36.735 --> 09:41.859\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長\n\n10:00.535 --> 10:17.953\n章化縣府的一個調查有3%的選擇學校選擇豆漿83%的學生選擇了包酒乳真正選擇鮮奶的也是真正幫助到弱農業的部分僅有14%要讓所有人喝鮮奶來拯救弱農但是只有14%的學生真的有喝這\n\n10:19.514 --> 10:32.411\n要讓是不是有像我們之前班班有時班一樣都是中央喊口號實際卻辦不到所以想詢問一下部長跟次長牛奶跟鮮奶這兩者的營養有什麼差別你們知道嗎\n\n10:35.125 --> 10:50.219\n臺灣自己的弱農產業非常好,我們當然希望提供最好的乳品,特別是臺灣鮮奶給我們的學童。目前訂購的狀況是,鮮乳採購的比例大概三成多,六成多都是薄酒乳,這是我們現在看到的狀況。\n\n10:51.617 --> 11:17.113\n我想說我剛剛問的是這個牛乳跟羊乳的差別我還是要講一下我想主要差異基本上兩者差異極低但是主要差異在於乳糖含量較低造成乳糖不耐症的一個風險也較低所以我想羊乳不管是本草綱目有記載我想以及包括我們研究指出它的一個弱蛋白跟牛乳的弱蛋白種類不一樣較不引起腹痛脹氣等問題\n\n11:18.174 --> 11:35.216\n所以我想幫羊乳也說一個話讓大家有更多的選擇當然我們在整個今天的委員會也有在探討現在將這些牛乳或者是保酒乳不管怎麼樣廠商送到學校再經由老師送到學生這樣的過程當中冷鏈有沒有問題\n\n11:35.917 --> 12:04.091\n這樣的過程當中行政會不會增加更多老師的負擔老師有教學的負擔有行政負擔現在還有所謂的班班有鮮乳要幫忙協助送達的一個負擔我們希望在這樣的一個配合過程當中應該要考量到學生的健康之外還要考量到教學的品質以及老師是否有過勞的一個狀況我想這個部分農業部應該要來極力的協助教育部這部分杜市長\n\n12:04.672 --> 12:06.656\n會議後有相關的檢討,是不是能夠給我一下?\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.157,"end":11.838,"text":"好,謝主席。我們有請部長。"},{"start":19.346,"end":41.698,"text":"好,部長好,本會期第一次見面,教育的議題,不論幼教、特教、國教、高教、成教等等,我們都有政策要很多的要來討論,任中道遠。部長,加油。謝謝。那我想上週我們這個三坨的颱風來襲,看到很多的一些狀況,不管是屋頂啊、路牌啊、亂飛啊,我們都非常感到憂心。"},{"start":42.458,"end":67.834,"text":"那教育部在10月3號初步估計有11所學校有受損那目前呢過了一個禮拜了再加上基隆北海岸的一個地區上週五大豪雨教育部是否有詳細的受災或者是財損的一個狀況影響到受我們的孩子的受教權益有沒有更新?更為 更為 報告謝委員的這一個關心這個災損我們確實現在有139的"},{"start":72.711,"end":82.879,"text":"五百二十六的一個學校裡邊那整個災損目前估計是大概三點六億好十月三號十一所現在五百多所"},{"start":84.09,"end":111.741,"text":"那82萬變成3點多億我想這個數字上有很大的一個差異才過了一週喔是那我想爭取老舊校舍的改建特別編列預算喔我也有一個臨時動議待會會提出那我想國內超過50年的屋齡老舊校舍呢有2200餘棟超過30年的一個屋齡大概8300多棟針對老舊校舍的改建喔行政院一般性的補助只有37.5億"},{"start":113.582,"end":132.184,"text":"那我想針對這個部分行政院甚至是公然灌水說最近投入了千億元這千億元我想明明就是包括了班班有平板、班班有冷氣、班班有網路、校園跑道整修以及廁所整修、電力的一個改善整整"},{"start":133.547,"end":157.099,"text":"真正用在老舊校舍補助的部分是少之又少那我想9月30號的聯合報報導指出我想您也很清楚有縣市教育局的官員表示中央編列這樣子的一個金額太少單一縣市每年只改建3到4所的一個學校請問這樣子的預算編列針對老舊校舍我們要到什麼時候才能夠整體完成"},{"start":158.32,"end":187.98,"text":"根委員報告這一個可能要在這邊根委員再補充說明事實上這個從九二一大地震以後這個98年到1111年總共前後有14年事實上是這個不管哪一個政黨這個執政事實上都是共同看到這個校園這個建築教學用的這些這個教室啊怎麼樣去改善它的一個防震跟這個安全上的一些考量"},{"start":188.961,"end":193.125,"text":"總共投入了1315億,這是14年的累積,總共改善了包含補強及危險教室拆建總共有8788棟"},{"start":208.88,"end":233.274,"text":"那跟委員報告這個就是在9月1、民國88年以前許多的防震系數教室老舊教室裡邊大概全面地毯式的搜索有一萬七千多筆裡邊做了初步的這14年的改善大概跟委員報告就是說特別要說的是在這個之前我們大概做了一個地毯式的一個"},{"start":234.575,"end":260.627,"text":"會有危險的必須要立即改善的跟拆除的大概這到11年是做了一個段落上的一個階段性的一個這個我就想問第二個問題現在的補助款有88%都是結構性的一個補強只有12%是拆除重建請問這是教育局做過專業的評估不需要重建就可以達到的安全標準還是單純為了省錢沒有跟委員報告這都是有專業的一個評估"},{"start":262.526,"end":288.593,"text":"做這樣的一個處理的好我想評估的科學標準是什麼家長都非常的憂心我們擔心這是治標不治本當然你們說這是有專業的科學依據我想今年四月花蓮大地震全台灣有1080所學校受損因為地震被震成圍樓的花蓮女中綜合大樓屋齡只有36年跟其他地區的老舊校舍比起來還算年輕可能"},{"start":289.153,"end":310.275,"text":"就會優先重建超過50年最危險的老舊校舍但是事實證明即使只有36年的花女綜合大樓遇到地震一樣會倒所以部長能不能承諾我們應該用最嚴格的標準以重建代替補強而不是用省錢的標準來看待老舊校舍的重建"},{"start":311.637,"end":330.806,"text":"跟委員報告,確實所有的這個校舍的一個改建我們是以安全做唯一的一個規準部長我想在我自己的這個選區啊有老舊校舍不是只有老跟舊的一個問題有的就沒有實照那這個問題其實對我們都非常擔憂那可以說這就是違建了嘛"},{"start":331.286,"end":349.62,"text":"那所以部長面對全台灣有14萬學童在危險上課台灣地區屬於地震帶的部分雖然有地震相處已是日常但是我們不能掉以輕心啊老舊校舍的改建你只向行政院爭取了公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計畫114年到117年度350億350億不是會太少了嗎?你不覺得你太客氣了嗎?"},{"start":357.279,"end":371.88,"text":"跟委員報告這個我想有一些我們內部的一些在老舊教室的一個這個補強跟這個圍樓的拆遷有一些新的一個數據我想是不是容我會後再補送給這個委員"},{"start":373.362,"end":384.947,"text":"我們一起來瞭解但是我想過去8年為了國人的安全政府編列2370億海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算2472億新式戰機採購特別預算也編了1000億特別預算役駐勞健寶以及台電公司編列前瞻預算特別預算8800億用於軌道建設、水資源環境、城鄉建設等等"},{"start":399.454,"end":412.35,"text":"我們都可以認同但是部長窮不能窮教育阿依此特別預算編列的脈絡背景我主張編列特別預算用於老舊校舍改建請問部長支持嗎"},{"start":413.444,"end":432.851,"text":"我想我們老舊校舍的一個改建其實也要跟委員報告有一些教授就是50年他還是我們經過專業評估是安全的對學校的歷史、文化、共同的校友的記憶他是有價值的所以我們其實有時候我們反而看到"},{"start":433.371,"end":433.591,"text":"主席的解釋"},{"start":458.955,"end":477.728,"text":"本席要幫你向行政院要錢那基本上這個部分我們希望編列特別預算就是保障我們的學童安全我們一起共同來為他們努力那我也希望你在要這樣子的相關預算的時候不要客氣我們會做你的後盾我們希望這個部分應該要去加強"},{"start":478.689,"end":491.238,"text":"老舊校舍真的是我們非常擔憂的一個部分確實行政院在這個部分也給教育部相當大的一些支持也謝謝委員的一個關心好那有請我們農業部督事長"},{"start":495.728,"end":520.024,"text":"我想我們也要爭取養奶也要納入班班有鮮奶的一個政策我想我有一些分享想要跟你來做一個探討班班有鮮奶的政策主要是針對紐西蘭進口的液態乳明年進口關稅將降至為零為了降低台灣農業的一個衝擊農業部與教育部所做的一個合作請問部長跟次長知不知道台灣有多少人有乳糖不耐症"},{"start":523.095,"end":531.354,"text":"市長您知道嗎?我們目前訂購涵蓋豆奶的比例大概3點多%"},{"start":532.988,"end":534.029,"text":"臺灣人有88%有乳糖不耐症"},{"start":553.647,"end":576.475,"text":"有說亞洲人有95%的人有乳糖不耐症最保守的也說有一半左右的人有乳糖不耐症我不知道哪個資訊是為真但是我想乳糖不耐症的人口應該是一個不少的人口所以值得我們去重視當然教育部是說開放豆漿作為替代品所以本來就不會有所有人都喝鮮乳甚至有超過一半的人口"},{"start":576.735,"end":581.859,"text":"二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長鄭英耀及執行長"},{"start":600.535,"end":617.953,"text":"章化縣府的一個調查有3%的選擇學校選擇豆漿83%的學生選擇了包酒乳真正選擇鮮奶的也是真正幫助到弱農業的部分僅有14%要讓所有人喝鮮奶來拯救弱農但是只有14%的學生真的有喝這"},{"start":619.514,"end":632.411,"text":"要讓是不是有像我們之前班班有時班一樣都是中央喊口號實際卻辦不到所以想詢問一下部長跟次長牛奶跟鮮奶這兩者的營養有什麼差別你們知道嗎"},{"start":635.125,"end":650.219,"text":"臺灣自己的弱農產業非常好,我們當然希望提供最好的乳品,特別是臺灣鮮奶給我們的學童。目前訂購的狀況是,鮮乳採購的比例大概三成多,六成多都是薄酒乳,這是我們現在看到的狀況。"},{"start":651.617,"end":677.113,"text":"我想說我剛剛問的是這個牛乳跟羊乳的差別我還是要講一下我想主要差異基本上兩者差異極低但是主要差異在於乳糖含量較低造成乳糖不耐症的一個風險也較低所以我想羊乳不管是本草綱目有記載我想以及包括我們研究指出它的一個弱蛋白跟牛乳的弱蛋白種類不一樣較不引起腹痛脹氣等問題"},{"start":678.174,"end":695.216,"text":"所以我想幫羊乳也說一個話讓大家有更多的選擇當然我們在整個今天的委員會也有在探討現在將這些牛乳或者是保酒乳不管怎麼樣廠商送到學校再經由老師送到學生這樣的過程當中冷鏈有沒有問題"},{"start":695.917,"end":724.091,"text":"這樣的過程當中行政會不會增加更多老師的負擔老師有教學的負擔有行政負擔現在還有所謂的班班有鮮乳要幫忙協助送達的一個負擔我們希望在這樣的一個配合過程當中應該要考量到學生的健康之外還要考量到教學的品質以及老師是否有過勞的一個狀況我想這個部分農業部應該要來極力的協助教育部這部分杜市長"},{"start":724.672,"end":726.656,"text":"會議後有相關的檢討,是不是能夠給我一下?"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:59:49 - 11:12:02","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國土管理署派員列席備詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155138,"gazette":{"lineno":490,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：羅委員好！"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長好！本會期我們第一次見面，教育的議題，不論是幼教、特教、國教、高教或成教等等，我們都有很多政策要討論，任重道遠，部長，加油！"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：上週山陀兒颱風來襲，我們看到了很多狀況，不管是屋頂、路牌亂飛，我們都感到非常憂心。教育部10月3日初步估計有11所學校受損，目前已經過了一個禮拜，再加上基隆、北海岸地區上週五大豪雨，教育部是否有掌握詳細的受災或財損的狀況，是否會影響到孩子的受教權益？資料有沒有更新？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，謝謝委員的關心。確實，現在有526所學校受損，整個災損目前估計大概是3億6,000萬元。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，10月3日11所，現在五百多所；82萬元變成三點多億元，我想這個數字有很大的差異，才過了一週。","我想爭取老舊校舍改建編列特別預算，我有一個臨時動議，這個我待會會提出來。國內屋齡超過50年的老舊校舍有二千二百餘棟；屋齡超過30年的大概有八千三百多棟。針對老舊校舍的改建，行政院一般性的補助只有37億5,000萬元。我想，針對這個部分，行政院公然灌水說：「最近投入了千億元」，這個「千億元」明明就包括了「班班有平板」、「班班有冷氣」、「班班有網路」、「校園跑道整修」、「廁所整修」和「電力的改善」，真正用在補助老舊校舍的部分是少之又少。9月30日聯合報的報導指出，我想這你也很清楚，有縣市教育局的官員表示，中央編列這樣子的金額太少，單一縣市每年只能改建3到4所學校。請問針對老舊校舍這樣子的預算編列，我們要到什麼時候才能夠整體完成？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我在這裡要跟委員補充說明，事實上，從921大地震之後，98年到111年，前後14年，不管是哪一個政黨執政，對於校園建築、教學用的這些教室要怎麼樣改善它的防震跟安全都很重視，我們總共投入了1,315億元。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這是歷年來累積的嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：對，這是先後14年的累積，總共改善了包含補強跟危險教室的拆建，總共有8,788棟。跟委員報告，對於民國88年之前許多防震係數不夠的老舊教室，我們做了全面、地毯式的搜索後，大概在一萬七千多筆裡面，我們做了初步、4年的改善。跟委員報告，我們要特別說的是，在這之前，我們做了地毯式的搜索，有危險、必須要立即改善和拆除的，到111年，我們已經做了一個段落式、階段性的處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，那我想問第二個問題，現在補助款有88%都是結構性的補強，只有12%是拆除重建，請問，這是教育部做過專業的評估，不需要拆建就可以達到安全標準？還是單純為了省錢？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，跟委員報告，這都是有專業的評估來做這樣的處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，評估的科學標準是什麼？家長都非常的憂心，我們擔心這是治標不治本，當然，你們說這是有專業的科學依據。今年4月花蓮大地震，全臺灣有1,080所學校受損。因為地震被震成危樓的花蓮女中綜合大樓屋齡只有36年，它跟其他地區的老舊校舍比起來還算年輕，你們可能會優先重建屋齡超過50年、最危險的老舊校舍，但是事實證明，即使是屋齡只有36年的花蓮女中綜合大樓，它遇到地震一樣會倒，所以部長能不能承諾，我們會用最嚴格的標準，以重建代替補強，而不是用省錢的標準來看待老舊校舍的重建？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實，所有校舍的改建，我們都是以安全作為唯一的規準。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。部長，在我選區的老舊校舍，它不是只有「老」和「舊」的問題，有的就沒有使用執照，其實這個問題讓我們非常擔憂，這個可以說就是「違建」了。所以部長，面對全臺灣有14萬名學童在危險校舍裡上課，臺灣又位處於地震帶，雖然與地震相處已是我們的日常，但是我們不能掉以輕心。老舊校舍的改建，你只向行政院爭取了公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計劃、114年到117年度350億元，350億元不會太少嗎？你不覺得你太客氣了嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們內部對於老舊校舍的補強跟危樓的拆遷有一些新的數據，我想是否容我會後再補送給委員？"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，相關的資料我們一起來瞭解。但是過去8年，為了國人的安全，政府編列了2,370億元的海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算；2,472億元的新式戰機採購特別預算；也編了1,000億元的特別預算來挹注勞健保以及臺電公司；編列前瞻預算、特別預算8,800億元用於軌道建設、水資源環境、城鄉建設等等，這些我們都可以認同，但是部長，窮不能窮教育，以此特別預算編列的脈絡背景，我主張編列特別預算用於老舊校舍的改建，請問部長，支持嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，有些屋齡超過50年的老舊校舍經過我們的專業評估，它還是安全的，它對於學校的歷史、文化和校友共同的記憶是有價值的，所以當它在安全上沒有問題時，事實上，它對學校也傳遞著另外一種情感，包括連結與社區的情感，我想它是特別的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然，這是特殊案例，你用補強，這個我們體諒，但是整體，我們就是要要錢來做老舊校舍的補強跟改建，你願意支持嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：如果安全上有疑慮，這個我們當然一定要來做改善，甚至是重建。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，你不敢要，本席幫你向行政院要錢，基本上，這個部分我們希望編列特別預算來保障學童的安全，我們一起共同的來為他們努力，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，謝謝委員！謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我也希望你在要這樣子的相關預算時，不要客氣，我們做你的後盾，我們希望這個部分應該要加強，老舊校舍真的是我們非常擔憂的一個部分。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實，行政院在這個部分也給教育部相當大的支持，也謝謝委員的關心，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。有請農業部杜次長。","我想，我們也要爭取羊奶納入「班班有鮮奶」的政策，我有一些分享想要來跟你探討。「班班有鮮奶」的政策主要是針對紐西蘭進口的液態乳，因為明年他們的進口關稅將降至零。為了降低它對臺灣酪農業所產生的衝擊，農業部與教育部首次做了一個合作，請問部長和次長，你們知不知道臺灣有多少人有乳糖不耐症？次長，你知道嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：目前訂購含鈣豆奶的比例大概是百分之三點多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：什麼東西？"],["杜次長文珍：因為我們可以訂購鮮奶，也可以訂購保久奶。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那個數據我知道，我是問大概有多少人有乳糖不耐症這樣的狀況？"],["杜次長文珍：訂購含鈣豆奶的占百分之三點多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：百分之三點多？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，沒關係，我引用幾個說法，請大家參考一下。網路上的說法有：臺灣有88%的人有乳糖不耐症；也有說亞洲有95%的人有乳糖不耐症；最保守的也說有一半左右的人有乳糖不耐症。我不知道哪一個資訊為真，但是我想有乳糖不耐症的人口應該不少，所以值得我們去重視。當然，教育部說開放豆漿做為替代品，所以本來就不是所有人都喝鮮乳，甚至有超過一半的人口不喝鮮乳，這由現在訂購的數字也可以看得到。","依據臺中市與彰化縣府的調查，許多學校挑選保久乳，而不是鮮奶。中華民國酪農學會就指出，如果學童習慣喝保久乳，反而更沒有辦法區分臺灣鮮奶與紐西蘭鮮奶，長久將不利臺灣的酪農業。根據彰化縣府的調查，將近3%的學校選擇豆漿；83%的學生選擇保久乳，真正選擇鮮奶、也就是真正幫助到酪農業的僅有14%。要讓所有人喝鮮奶來拯救酪農，但是只有14%的學生真的有喝，這是不是和我們之前「班班有石斑」一樣，都是中央喊口號，實際卻辦不到？所以我想詢問一下部長跟次長，牛奶跟鮮奶這兩者的營養有什麼差別，你們知道嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：因為臺灣的酪農產業非常好，我們當然是希望提供最好的乳品，特別是臺灣的鮮奶給我們的學童。目前訂購的狀況是：鮮乳採購的比例大概是三成多，然後六成多都是保久乳，這是我們現在看到的狀況。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我剛問的是牛乳跟羊乳的差別。我還是要講一下，基本上，這兩者差異極低，主要的差異在於羊奶的乳糖含量較低，造成乳糖不耐症的風險也較低。有關羊乳，本草綱目有記載，包括也有研究指出，它的酪蛋白跟牛乳的酪蛋白種類不一樣，較不會引起腹痛、漲氣等問題，所以我想幫羊乳說個話，讓大家可以有更多的選擇。當然，今天委員會也有在探討，現在這些牛乳或是保久乳經由廠商送到學校，再經由老師送給學生，這個過程的冷鏈有沒有問題？這個過程的行政會不會增加老師更多的負擔？老師有教學的負擔、行政的負擔，現在他們還有所謂「班班有鮮乳」要幫忙、協助送達的負擔，我們希望在這樣的配合過程中，除了要考量到學生的健康外，還要考量到教學的品質，以及老師是否有過勞的狀況？我想這個部分農業部應該要極力的來協助教育部，杜次長，會後有相關的檢討是不是能給我一下？"],["杜次長文珍：好，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員。部長請回。","接下來有請鍾佳濱委員，質詢時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葉元之","范雲","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","林宜瑾","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","張嘉郡","洪申翰","張雅琳","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","林月琴","吳春城","黃健豪","黃國昌","牛煦庭","徐富癸","羅智強","吳沛憶","高金素梅","李彥秀"],"page_start":295,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢；二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小\n學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國\n土管理署派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00016"}}}