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\"start\": 748.759, \"end\": 748.779, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,689 --> 00:00:24,859\n謝謝主席主席有請顧立雄部長請顧部長那麼其他的這些將官們如果可以協助部長回應的話那麼就請自動上台我就不再點名部長早安首先我想因為風災剛剛有委員問到颱風價不過我覺得在這裡我還是要代表這個本席來對我們所有國軍弟兄不論是在這一次\n\n2\n00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:42,117\n防災之前的預備性的這種清理協助防災又或者是後續的救災喔不論是我現在所從新聞社提供的這些畫面從第二作戰區的東部第三作戰區的北部跟第四作戰區的南部我想真的都是全員動起\n\n3\n00:00:43,038 --> 00:00:44,619\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神\n\n4\n00:01:14,608 --> 00:01:32,257\n國防部的狀況不一致我昨天才到高雄跟屏東那我的我到現場之後他們也提出來說像今天還是需要相關的兵力來協助是這個因為因為南部的是風\n\n5\n00:01:33,658 --> 00:01:34,118\n大型機工具的調度嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:03,934 --> 00:02:27,688\n對。所以這個相關的部分都投入了很多。那北部的部分的話應該是雨、大雨、風。那雨的部分的話在相關的包括基隆、金山萬里等等的一帶也投入相關的兵力。那到昨天為止全部投入的兵力大概是6769人次。大概是這樣。\n\n7\n00:02:29,249 --> 00:02:33,171\n6769人次所以非常感謝我們這些國軍弟兄們真的是展現了這個軍民一體的精神不過剛剛我為什麼用這個來起頭是因為我相信這個再多的感謝都不如實質上面的給予國軍弟兄包括加薪又或者是夜點從60元提升到100元還有像休假的補助啊慰問金等等\n\n8\n00:02:52,978 --> 00:02:54,179\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n\n9\n00:03:08,268 --> 00:03:08,868\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報\n\n10\n00:03:28,221 --> 00:03:44,208\n最新的訊息公布我們也將有高達5.69億美金史上最大的這個所謂的援助包括我們的軍備等等但是我們都知道現在114年度的總預算就是卡在程序委員會裡面是根本還沒有進來做實質審查\n\n11\n00:03:46,249 --> 00:03:52,477\n我剛剛講了這麼多先不要說後續的這些所謂的軍購或是新增的建案單單給國軍遞充的這些包括明年3%的加薪又或者是夜點的提升我們知道颱風、秋台是非常可怕的但是你無法預測\n\n12\n00:04:03,892 --> 00:04:17,241\n這是為什麼這一次三坨颱風造成這麼讓人無法捉摸而又這麼大的災害的時候我想部長您身為這個國防部的部長的時候預算現在就是如果卡住的時候那國防部到底有沒有辦法調節難道說\n\n13\n00:04:19,102 --> 00:04:20,543\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n14\n00:04:42,176 --> 00:05:02,015\n主席主席局長114年度的預算如果沒辦法順利過的話當然我們的新增案剛剛提到的69億的軍頭新增案是沒辦法執行其他的新增的計畫剛剛提到的有關月點費調整這塊當然是沒辦法去執行的\n\n15\n00:05:02,777 --> 00:05:06,660\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n16\n00:05:17,848 --> 00:05:40,596\n國防部能夠跟藍白的立委來做說明因為弟兄真的不能餓弟兄也因為辛苦當然包括有關於這些新增的不論是新增的建案又或者是軍售其實本席去找了資料本席不是這個國防或武器相關的專業但是如果根據我的了解的話所有的新增建案它有非常多的節點\n\n17\n00:05:41,676 --> 00:05:42,456\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n\n18\n00:06:00,851 --> 00:06:16,436\n只要一個節點有任何的延遲就會影響到後續那這個我相信不論是部長又或者是主席已經都會非常了解那這個部分就請你們能夠要多再跟藍白立委來多做說明那另外我要\n\n19\n00:06:17,336 --> 00:06:35,496\n延續剛剛講到雷神的部分同樣的如果說是已經報導過的那就不算是機密所以本席會從媒體的角度來看這個事情就是這中間的操作是不是太巧了甚至於每方都主動調查但是卻被操作成中間是台灣變成潘娜我們來看這個報導是在\n\n20\n00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:45,145\n六月四號的時候那麼你去詳細閱讀這篇報導的時候你會發現他只提到了中東的合約而且這個合約是2011年到2013年那麼再提到有一案是2017年的那麼關於這樣的整體的行為其實是美國的納稅人多繳了錢跟台灣都沒有任何的關聯\n\n21\n00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:10,107\n在這裡也沒有特別的去提及台灣可是為什麼在10月1號這一天有一個像內容農場一樣的網站開始針對雷神案扯到台灣的軍購而且用不明確的信件來定調台灣變成潘納變成冤大頭如果是媒體照理說本席以前在媒體工作過\n\n22\n00:07:24,657 --> 00:07:53,414\n像這樣重要的外電我們大概就算沒有第一時間有時間差隔個24小時之後它也會被翻譯出來但是像這種經過了三四個月之後而且是特別在10月1號中共國慶的時候來出現我就想要就教過去也曾經有在國安會經驗的部長您認為這會不會是一個假訊息的以美論的操作因為這一切的連結其實也非常的詭異\n\n23\n00:07:55,903 --> 00:08:19,360\n我在這邊我想因為剛剛已經做過機密專報我在這邊能夠說的就是說這個的確是美國主動調查之後來主動告知所以如果美國把我們當盤子或者是當鎧子的話美國就不會主動調查而來告知我們所以我們只是要強調這一點就是說美國有它一個蠻嚴謹的一個\n\n24\n00:08:46,414 --> 00:08:50,776\n部長,其實我會提到這個部分是因為其實從這個訊息對外釋出之後他所要形塑的會不會是一個認知作戰在裡面呢?因為從剛剛也有委員講到的就是這個總統的查會的部分媒體的報導的時間點\n\n25\n00:09:13,248 --> 00:09:31,134\n再從剛剛的這個案例再到之前其實更早曾經有出現就是國防部用坦克各軍種然後有一個所謂的南海工作會議的記錄後來被北檢證實是假文件我要強調的是其實在\n\n26\n00:09:32,094 --> 00:09:52,883\n國防部或者是軍事相關的內容跟機料跟自密當中其實確實都存在著可能被做認知作戰的部分那對於反制假錯訊息其實國防部也有提出說會有立即查證損害評估澄清與反制然後網路溯源跟因應那我為什麼會特別把這個講放在一起講是因為部長從剛剛我們講到的雷神案出現了內容農場\n\n27\n00:10:00,526 --> 00:10:02,248\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n28\n00:10:19,963 --> 00:10:29,406\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續\n\n29\n00:10:49,656 --> 00:11:14,193\n告訴然後認證是假的文件大家知道這是假的就算是真的專業的媒體也會出現假消息的時候那麼之前往前推不論是南海的這個會議之外包括總統的查會雷神案那麼國防部有沒有也啟動了網路錯假訊息的反制又或者是調查呢\n\n30\n00:11:15,385 --> 00:11:42,811\n我想這個部分我們政戰局都會來就這個網路的錯假訊息來進行查證之後然後未來立即澄清跟反制這個是我們應該要做的事情那當然整個一個認知作戰可能是涉及到一個跨部會的議題所以我想很多的這個錯假訊息的立即應處我們也都需要跨部會的協作這樣子\n\n31\n00:11:43,371 --> 00:12:06,387\n所以說剛剛我們提到的我們知道像這個南海工作會議它確實是比較明確的就是以所謂假文件來做處理了嘛那其他的因為沒有一個文件出來但是我剛剛特別提到喔就是雷神案它也是有一個洩露不明確的信件來做定調那這個部分國防部會不會用假錯訊息來做調查呢?\n\n32\n00:12:09,576 --> 00:12:27,818\n我現在只能夠說這一個報導本身就是有剛委員所提到的他的一些謬誤跟誇大之處所以我想我們這個部分才會立即來做一個發新聞稿來做一個說明這樣\n\n33\n00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:28,779\n好,是。好,謝謝。謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n689\t24859\t謝謝主席主席有請顧立雄部長請顧部長那麼其他的這些將官們如果可以協助部長回應的話那麼就請自動上台我就不再點名部長早安首先我想因為風災剛剛有委員問到颱風價不過我覺得在這裡我還是要代表這個本席來對我們所有國軍弟兄不論是在這一次\n26300\t42117\t防災之前的預備性的這種清理協助防災又或者是後續的救災喔不論是我現在所從新聞社提供的這些畫面從第二作戰區的東部第三作戰區的北部跟第四作戰區的南部我想真的都是全員動起\n43038\t44619\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神\n74608\t92257\t國防部的狀況不一致我昨天才到高雄跟屏東那我的我到現場之後他們也提出來說像今天還是需要相關的兵力來協助是這個因為因為南部的是風\n93658\t94118\t大型機工具的調度嗎?\n123934\t147688\t對。所以這個相關的部分都投入了很多。那北部的部分的話應該是雨、大雨、風。那雨的部分的話在相關的包括基隆、金山萬里等等的一帶也投入相關的兵力。那到昨天為止全部投入的兵力大概是6769人次。大概是這樣。\n149249\t153171\t6769人次所以非常感謝我們這些國軍弟兄們真的是展現了這個軍民一體的精神不過剛剛我為什麼用這個來起頭是因為我相信這個再多的感謝都不如實質上面的給予國軍弟兄包括加薪又或者是夜點從60元提升到100元還有像休假的補助啊慰問金等等\n172978\t174179\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n188268\t188868\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報\n208221\t224208\t最新的訊息公布我們也將有高達5.69億美金史上最大的這個所謂的援助包括我們的軍備等等但是我們都知道現在114年度的總預算就是卡在程序委員會裡面是根本還沒有進來做實質審查\n226249\t232477\t我剛剛講了這麼多先不要說後續的這些所謂的軍購或是新增的建案單單給國軍遞充的這些包括明年3%的加薪又或者是夜點的提升我們知道颱風、秋台是非常可怕的但是你無法預測\n243892\t257241\t這是為什麼這一次三坨颱風造成這麼讓人無法捉摸而又這麼大的災害的時候我想部長您身為這個國防部的部長的時候預算現在就是如果卡住的時候那國防部到底有沒有辦法調節難道說\n259102\t260543\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n282176\t302015\t主席主席局長114年度的預算如果沒辦法順利過的話當然我們的新增案剛剛提到的69億的軍頭新增案是沒辦法執行其他的新增的計畫剛剛提到的有關月點費調整這塊當然是沒辦法去執行的\n302777\t306660\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n317848\t340596\t國防部能夠跟藍白的立委來做說明因為弟兄真的不能餓弟兄也因為辛苦當然包括有關於這些新增的不論是新增的建案又或者是軍售其實本席去找了資料本席不是這個國防或武器相關的專業但是如果根據我的了解的話所有的新增建案它有非常多的節點\n341676\t342456\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n360851\t376436\t只要一個節點有任何的延遲就會影響到後續那這個我相信不論是部長又或者是主席已經都會非常了解那這個部分就請你們能夠要多再跟藍白立委來多做說明那另外我要\n377336\t395496\t延續剛剛講到雷神的部分同樣的如果說是已經報導過的那就不算是機密所以本席會從媒體的角度來看這個事情就是這中間的操作是不是太巧了甚至於每方都主動調查但是卻被操作成中間是台灣變成潘娜我們來看這個報導是在\n399600\t405145\t六月四號的時候那麼你去詳細閱讀這篇報導的時候你會發現他只提到了中東的合約而且這個合約是2011年到2013年那麼再提到有一案是2017年的那麼關於這樣的整體的行為其實是美國的納稅人多繳了錢跟台灣都沒有任何的關聯\n421280\t430107\t在這裡也沒有特別的去提及台灣可是為什麼在10月1號這一天有一個像內容農場一樣的網站開始針對雷神案扯到台灣的軍購而且用不明確的信件來定調台灣變成潘納變成冤大頭如果是媒體照理說本席以前在媒體工作過\n444657\t473414\t像這樣重要的外電我們大概就算沒有第一時間有時間差隔個24小時之後它也會被翻譯出來但是像這種經過了三四個月之後而且是特別在10月1號中共國慶的時候來出現我就想要就教過去也曾經有在國安會經驗的部長您認為這會不會是一個假訊息的以美論的操作因為這一切的連結其實也非常的詭異\n475903\t499360\t我在這邊我想因為剛剛已經做過機密專報我在這邊能夠說的就是說這個的確是美國主動調查之後來主動告知所以如果美國把我們當盤子或者是當鎧子的話美國就不會主動調查而來告知我們所以我們只是要強調這一點就是說美國有它一個蠻嚴謹的一個\n502602\t526254\t﹏﹏﹏\n526414\t530776\t部長,其實我會提到這個部分是因為其實從這個訊息對外釋出之後他所要形塑的會不會是一個認知作戰在裡面呢?因為從剛剛也有委員講到的就是這個總統的查會的部分媒體的報導的時間點\n553248\t571134\t再從剛剛的這個案例再到之前其實更早曾經有出現就是國防部用坦克各軍種然後有一個所謂的南海工作會議的記錄後來被北檢證實是假文件我要強調的是其實在\n572094\t592883\t國防部或者是軍事相關的內容跟機料跟自密當中其實確實都存在著可能被做認知作戰的部分那對於反制假錯訊息其實國防部也有提出說會有立即查證損害評估澄清與反制然後網路溯源跟因應那我為什麼會特別把這個講放在一起講是因為部長從剛剛我們講到的雷神案出現了內容農場\n600526\t602248\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n619963\t629406\t二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續\n649656\t674193\t告訴然後認證是假的文件大家知道這是假的就算是真的專業的媒體也會出現假消息的時候那麼之前往前推不論是南海的這個會議之外包括總統的查會雷神案那麼國防部有沒有也啟動了網路錯假訊息的反制又或者是調查呢\n675385\t702811\t我想這個部分我們政戰局都會來就這個網路的錯假訊息來進行查證之後然後未來立即澄清跟反制這個是我們應該要做的事情那當然整個一個認知作戰可能是涉及到一個跨部會的議題所以我想很多的這個錯假訊息的立即應處我們也都需要跨部會的協作這樣子\n703371\t726387\t所以說剛剛我們提到的我們知道像這個南海工作會議它確實是比較明確的就是以所謂假文件來做處理了嘛那其他的因為沒有一個文件出來但是我剛剛特別提到喔就是雷神案它也是有一個洩露不明確的信件來做定調那這個部分國防部會不會用假錯訊息來做調查呢?\n729576\t747818\t我現在只能夠說這一個報導本身就是有剛委員所提到的他的一些謬誤跟誇大之處所以我想我們這個部分才會立即來做一個發新聞稿來做一個說明這樣\n748519\t748779\t好,是。好,謝謝。謝謝。\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請顧立雄部長請顧部長那麼其他的這些將官們如果可以協助部長回應的話那麼就請自動上台我就不再點名部長早安首先我想因為風災剛剛有委員問到颱風價不過我覺得在這裡我還是要代表這個本席來對我們所有國軍弟兄不論是在這一次\n防災之前的預備性的這種清理協助防災又或者是後續的救災喔不論是我現在所從新聞社提供的這些畫面從第二作戰區的東部第三作戰區的北部跟第四作戰區的南部我想真的都是全員動起\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神\n國防部的狀況不一致我昨天才到高雄跟屏東那我的我到現場之後他們也提出來說像今天還是需要相關的兵力來協助是這個因為因為南部的是風\n大型機工具的調度嗎?\n對。所以這個相關的部分都投入了很多。那北部的部分的話應該是雨、大雨、風。那雨的部分的話在相關的包括基隆、金山萬里等等的一帶也投入相關的兵力。那到昨天為止全部投入的兵力大概是6769人次。大概是這樣。\n6769人次所以非常感謝我們這些國軍弟兄們真的是展現了這個軍民一體的精神不過剛剛我為什麼用這個來起頭是因為我相信這個再多的感謝都不如實質上面的給予國軍弟兄包括加薪又或者是夜點從60元提升到100元還有像休假的補助啊慰問金等等\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報\n最新的訊息公布我們也將有高達5.69億美金史上最大的這個所謂的援助包括我們的軍備等等但是我們都知道現在114年度的總預算就是卡在程序委員會裡面是根本還沒有進來做實質審查\n我剛剛講了這麼多先不要說後續的這些所謂的軍購或是新增的建案單單給國軍遞充的這些包括明年3%的加薪又或者是夜點的提升我們知道颱風、秋台是非常可怕的但是你無法預測\n這是為什麼這一次三坨颱風造成這麼讓人無法捉摸而又這麼大的災害的時候我想部長您身為這個國防部的部長的時候預算現在就是如果卡住的時候那國防部到底有沒有辦法調節難道說\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n主席主席局長114年度的預算如果沒辦法順利過的話當然我們的新增案剛剛提到的69億的軍頭新增案是沒辦法執行其他的新增的計畫剛剛提到的有關月點費調整這塊當然是沒辦法去執行的\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n國防部能夠跟藍白的立委來做說明因為弟兄真的不能餓弟兄也因為辛苦當然包括有關於這些新增的不論是新增的建案又或者是軍售其實本席去找了資料本席不是這個國防或武器相關的專業但是如果根據我的了解的話所有的新增建案它有非常多的節點\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n只要一個節點有任何的延遲就會影響到後續那這個我相信不論是部長又或者是主席已經都會非常了解那這個部分就請你們能夠要多再跟藍白立委來多做說明那另外我要\n延續剛剛講到雷神的部分同樣的如果說是已經報導過的那就不算是機密所以本席會從媒體的角度來看這個事情就是這中間的操作是不是太巧了甚至於每方都主動調查但是卻被操作成中間是台灣變成潘娜我們來看這個報導是在\n六月四號的時候那麼你去詳細閱讀這篇報導的時候你會發現他只提到了中東的合約而且這個合約是2011年到2013年那麼再提到有一案是2017年的那麼關於這樣的整體的行為其實是美國的納稅人多繳了錢跟台灣都沒有任何的關聯\n在這裡也沒有特別的去提及台灣可是為什麼在10月1號這一天有一個像內容農場一樣的網站開始針對雷神案扯到台灣的軍購而且用不明確的信件來定調台灣變成潘納變成冤大頭如果是媒體照理說本席以前在媒體工作過\n像這樣重要的外電我們大概就算沒有第一時間有時間差隔個24小時之後它也會被翻譯出來但是像這種經過了三四個月之後而且是特別在10月1號中共國慶的時候來出現我就想要就教過去也曾經有在國安會經驗的部長您認為這會不會是一個假訊息的以美論的操作因為這一切的連結其實也非常的詭異\n我在這邊我想因為剛剛已經做過機密專報我在這邊能夠說的就是說這個的確是美國主動調查之後來主動告知所以如果美國把我們當盤子或者是當鎧子的話美國就不會主動調查而來告知我們所以我們只是要強調這一點就是說美國有它一個蠻嚴謹的一個\n﹏﹏﹏\n部長,其實我會提到這個部分是因為其實從這個訊息對外釋出之後他所要形塑的會不會是一個認知作戰在裡面呢?因為從剛剛也有委員講到的就是這個總統的查會的部分媒體的報導的時間點\n再從剛剛的這個案例再到之前其實更早曾經有出現就是國防部用坦克各軍種然後有一個所謂的南海工作會議的記錄後來被北檢證實是假文件我要強調的是其實在\n國防部或者是軍事相關的內容跟機料跟自密當中其實確實都存在著可能被做認知作戰的部分那對於反制假錯訊息其實國防部也有提出說會有立即查證損害評估澄清與反制然後網路溯源跟因應那我為什麼會特別把這個講放在一起講是因為部長從剛剛我們講到的雷神案出現了內容農場\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續\n告訴然後認證是假的文件大家知道這是假的就算是真的專業的媒體也會出現假消息的時候那麼之前往前推不論是南海的這個會議之外包括總統的查會雷神案那麼國防部有沒有也啟動了網路錯假訊息的反制又或者是調查呢\n我想這個部分我們政戰局都會來就這個網路的錯假訊息來進行查證之後然後未來立即澄清跟反制這個是我們應該要做的事情那當然整個一個認知作戰可能是涉及到一個跨部會的議題所以我想很多的這個錯假訊息的立即應處我們也都需要跨部會的協作這樣子\n所以說剛剛我們提到的我們知道像這個南海工作會議它確實是比較明確的就是以所謂假文件來做處理了嘛那其他的因為沒有一個文件出來但是我剛剛特別提到喔就是雷神案它也是有一個洩露不明確的信件來做定調那這個部分國防部會不會用假錯訊息來做調查呢?\n我現在只能夠說這一個報導本身就是有剛委員所提到的他的一些謬誤跟誇大之處所以我想我們這個部分才會立即來做一個發新聞稿來做一個說明這樣\n好,是。好,謝謝。謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.689 --> 00:24.859\n謝謝主席主席有請顧立雄部長請顧部長那麼其他的這些將官們如果可以協助部長回應的話那麼就請自動上台我就不再點名部長早安首先我想因為風災剛剛有委員問到颱風價不過我覺得在這裡我還是要代表這個本席來對我們所有國軍弟兄不論是在這一次\n\n00:26.300 --> 00:42.117\n防災之前的預備性的這種清理協助防災又或者是後續的救災喔不論是我現在所從新聞社提供的這些畫面從第二作戰區的東部第三作戰區的北部跟第四作戰區的南部我想真的都是全員動起\n\n00:43.038 --> 00:44.619\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神\n\n01:14.608 --> 01:32.257\n國防部的狀況不一致我昨天才到高雄跟屏東那我的我到現場之後他們也提出來說像今天還是需要相關的兵力來協助是這個因為因為南部的是風\n\n01:33.658 --> 01:34.118\n大型機工具的調度嗎?\n\n02:03.934 --> 02:27.688\n對。所以這個相關的部分都投入了很多。那北部的部分的話應該是雨、大雨、風。那雨的部分的話在相關的包括基隆、金山萬里等等的一帶也投入相關的兵力。那到昨天為止全部投入的兵力大概是6769人次。大概是這樣。\n\n02:29.249 --> 02:33.171\n6769人次所以非常感謝我們這些國軍弟兄們真的是展現了這個軍民一體的精神不過剛剛我為什麼用這個來起頭是因為我相信這個再多的感謝都不如實質上面的給予國軍弟兄包括加薪又或者是夜點從60元提升到100元還有像休假的補助啊慰問金等等\n\n02:52.978 --> 02:54.179\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。\n\n03:08.268 --> 03:08.868\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報\n\n03:28.221 --> 03:44.208\n最新的訊息公布我們也將有高達5.69億美金史上最大的這個所謂的援助包括我們的軍備等等但是我們都知道現在114年度的總預算就是卡在程序委員會裡面是根本還沒有進來做實質審查\n\n03:46.249 --> 03:52.477\n我剛剛講了這麼多先不要說後續的這些所謂的軍購或是新增的建案單單給國軍遞充的這些包括明年3%的加薪又或者是夜點的提升我們知道颱風、秋台是非常可怕的但是你無法預測\n\n04:03.892 --> 04:17.241\n這是為什麼這一次三坨颱風造成這麼讓人無法捉摸而又這麼大的災害的時候我想部長您身為這個國防部的部長的時候預算現在就是如果卡住的時候那國防部到底有沒有辦法調節難道說\n\n04:19.102 --> 04:20.543\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n04:42.176 --> 05:02.015\n主席主席局長114年度的預算如果沒辦法順利過的話當然我們的新增案剛剛提到的69億的軍頭新增案是沒辦法執行其他的新增的計畫剛剛提到的有關月點費調整這塊當然是沒辦法去執行的\n\n05:02.777 --> 05:06.660\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n05:17.848 --> 05:40.596\n國防部能夠跟藍白的立委來做說明因為弟兄真的不能餓弟兄也因為辛苦當然包括有關於這些新增的不論是新增的建案又或者是軍售其實本席去找了資料本席不是這個國防或武器相關的專業但是如果根據我的了解的話所有的新增建案它有非常多的節點\n\n05:41.676 --> 05:42.456\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情\n\n06:00.851 --> 06:16.436\n只要一個節點有任何的延遲就會影響到後續那這個我相信不論是部長又或者是主席已經都會非常了解那這個部分就請你們能夠要多再跟藍白立委來多做說明那另外我要\n\n06:17.336 --> 06:35.496\n延續剛剛講到雷神的部分同樣的如果說是已經報導過的那就不算是機密所以本席會從媒體的角度來看這個事情就是這中間的操作是不是太巧了甚至於每方都主動調查但是卻被操作成中間是台灣變成潘娜我們來看這個報導是在\n\n06:39.600 --> 06:45.145\n六月四號的時候那麼你去詳細閱讀這篇報導的時候你會發現他只提到了中東的合約而且這個合約是2011年到2013年那麼再提到有一案是2017年的那麼關於這樣的整體的行為其實是美國的納稅人多繳了錢跟台灣都沒有任何的關聯\n\n07:01.280 --> 07:10.107\n在這裡也沒有特別的去提及台灣可是為什麼在10月1號這一天有一個像內容農場一樣的網站開始針對雷神案扯到台灣的軍購而且用不明確的信件來定調台灣變成潘納變成冤大頭如果是媒體照理說本席以前在媒體工作過\n\n07:24.657 --> 07:53.414\n像這樣重要的外電我們大概就算沒有第一時間有時間差隔個24小時之後它也會被翻譯出來但是像這種經過了三四個月之後而且是特別在10月1號中共國慶的時候來出現我就想要就教過去也曾經有在國安會經驗的部長您認為這會不會是一個假訊息的以美論的操作因為這一切的連結其實也非常的詭異\n\n07:55.903 --> 08:19.360\n我在這邊我想因為剛剛已經做過機密專報我在這邊能夠說的就是說這個的確是美國主動調查之後來主動告知所以如果美國把我們當盤子或者是當鎧子的話美國就不會主動調查而來告知我們所以我們只是要強調這一點就是說美國有它一個蠻嚴謹的一個\n\n08:46.414 --> 08:50.776\n部長,其實我會提到這個部分是因為其實從這個訊息對外釋出之後他所要形塑的會不會是一個認知作戰在裡面呢?因為從剛剛也有委員講到的就是這個總統的查會的部分媒體的報導的時間點\n\n09:13.248 --> 09:31.134\n再從剛剛的這個案例再到之前其實更早曾經有出現就是國防部用坦克各軍種然後有一個所謂的南海工作會議的記錄後來被北檢證實是假文件我要強調的是其實在\n\n09:32.094 --> 09:52.883\n國防部或者是軍事相關的內容跟機料跟自密當中其實確實都存在著可能被做認知作戰的部分那對於反制假錯訊息其實國防部也有提出說會有立即查證損害評估澄清與反制然後網路溯源跟因應那我為什麼會特別把這個講放在一起講是因為部長從剛剛我們講到的雷神案出現了內容農場\n\n10:00.526 --> 10:02.248\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為\n\n10:19.963 --> 10:29.406\n二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續\n\n10:49.656 --> 11:14.193\n告訴然後認證是假的文件大家知道這是假的就算是真的專業的媒體也會出現假消息的時候那麼之前往前推不論是南海的這個會議之外包括總統的查會雷神案那麼國防部有沒有也啟動了網路錯假訊息的反制又或者是調查呢\n\n11:15.385 --> 11:42.811\n我想這個部分我們政戰局都會來就這個網路的錯假訊息來進行查證之後然後未來立即澄清跟反制這個是我們應該要做的事情那當然整個一個認知作戰可能是涉及到一個跨部會的議題所以我想很多的這個錯假訊息的立即應處我們也都需要跨部會的協作這樣子\n\n11:43.371 --> 12:06.387\n所以說剛剛我們提到的我們知道像這個南海工作會議它確實是比較明確的就是以所謂假文件來做處理了嘛那其他的因為沒有一個文件出來但是我剛剛特別提到喔就是雷神案它也是有一個洩露不明確的信件來做定調那這個部分國防部會不會用假錯訊息來做調查呢?\n\n12:09.576 --> 12:27.818\n我現在只能夠說這一個報導本身就是有剛委員所提到的他的一些謬誤跟誇大之處所以我想我們這個部分才會立即來做一個發新聞稿來做一個說明這樣\n\n12:28.519 --> 12:28.779\n好,是。好,謝謝。謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.689,"end":24.859,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請顧立雄部長請顧部長那麼其他的這些將官們如果可以協助部長回應的話那麼就請自動上台我就不再點名部長早安首先我想因為風災剛剛有委員問到颱風價不過我覺得在這裡我還是要代表這個本席來對我們所有國軍弟兄不論是在這一次"},{"start":26.3,"end":42.117,"text":"防災之前的預備性的這種清理協助防災又或者是後續的救災喔不論是我現在所從新聞社提供的這些畫面從第二作戰區的東部第三作戰區的北部跟第四作戰區的南部我想真的都是全員動起"},{"start":43.038,"end":44.619,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神對台美國軍火商雷神"},{"start":74.608,"end":92.257,"text":"國防部的狀況不一致我昨天才到高雄跟屏東那我的我到現場之後他們也提出來說像今天還是需要相關的兵力來協助是這個因為因為南部的是風"},{"start":93.658,"end":94.118,"text":"大型機工具的調度嗎?"},{"start":123.934,"end":147.688,"text":"對。所以這個相關的部分都投入了很多。那北部的部分的話應該是雨、大雨、風。那雨的部分的話在相關的包括基隆、金山萬里等等的一帶也投入相關的兵力。那到昨天為止全部投入的兵力大概是6769人次。大概是這樣。"},{"start":149.249,"end":153.171,"text":"6769人次所以非常感謝我們這些國軍弟兄們真的是展現了這個軍民一體的精神不過剛剛我為什麼用這個來起頭是因為我相信這個再多的感謝都不如實質上面的給予國軍弟兄包括加薪又或者是夜點從60元提升到100元還有像休假的補助啊慰問金等等"},{"start":172.978,"end":174.179,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為。"},{"start":188.268,"end":188.868,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報"},{"start":208.221,"end":224.208,"text":"最新的訊息公布我們也將有高達5.69億美金史上最大的這個所謂的援助包括我們的軍備等等但是我們都知道現在114年度的總預算就是卡在程序委員會裡面是根本還沒有進來做實質審查"},{"start":226.249,"end":232.477,"text":"我剛剛講了這麼多先不要說後續的這些所謂的軍購或是新增的建案單單給國軍遞充的這些包括明年3%的加薪又或者是夜點的提升我們知道颱風、秋台是非常可怕的但是你無法預測"},{"start":243.892,"end":257.241,"text":"這是為什麼這一次三坨颱風造成這麼讓人無法捉摸而又這麼大的災害的時候我想部長您身為這個國防部的部長的時候預算現在就是如果卡住的時候那國防部到底有沒有辦法調節難道說"},{"start":259.102,"end":260.543,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為"},{"start":282.176,"end":302.015,"text":"主席主席局長114年度的預算如果沒辦法順利過的話當然我們的新增案剛剛提到的69億的軍頭新增案是沒辦法執行其他的新增的計畫剛剛提到的有關月點費調整這塊當然是沒辦法去執行的"},{"start":302.777,"end":306.66,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為"},{"start":317.848,"end":340.596,"text":"國防部能夠跟藍白的立委來做說明因為弟兄真的不能餓弟兄也因為辛苦當然包括有關於這些新增的不論是新增的建案又或者是軍售其實本席去找了資料本席不是這個國防或武器相關的專業但是如果根據我的了解的話所有的新增建案它有非常多的節點"},{"start":341.676,"end":342.456,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情"},{"start":360.851,"end":376.436,"text":"只要一個節點有任何的延遲就會影響到後續那這個我相信不論是部長又或者是主席已經都會非常了解那這個部分就請你們能夠要多再跟藍白立委來多做說明那另外我要"},{"start":377.336,"end":395.496,"text":"延續剛剛講到雷神的部分同樣的如果說是已經報導過的那就不算是機密所以本席會從媒體的角度來看這個事情就是這中間的操作是不是太巧了甚至於每方都主動調查但是卻被操作成中間是台灣變成潘娜我們來看這個報導是在"},{"start":399.6,"end":405.145,"text":"六月四號的時候那麼你去詳細閱讀這篇報導的時候你會發現他只提到了中東的合約而且這個合約是2011年到2013年那麼再提到有一案是2017年的那麼關於這樣的整體的行為其實是美國的納稅人多繳了錢跟台灣都沒有任何的關聯"},{"start":421.28,"end":430.107,"text":"在這裡也沒有特別的去提及台灣可是為什麼在10月1號這一天有一個像內容農場一樣的網站開始針對雷神案扯到台灣的軍購而且用不明確的信件來定調台灣變成潘納變成冤大頭如果是媒體照理說本席以前在媒體工作過"},{"start":444.657,"end":473.414,"text":"像這樣重要的外電我們大概就算沒有第一時間有時間差隔個24小時之後它也會被翻譯出來但是像這種經過了三四個月之後而且是特別在10月1號中共國慶的時候來出現我就想要就教過去也曾經有在國安會經驗的部長您認為這會不會是一個假訊息的以美論的操作因為這一切的連結其實也非常的詭異"},{"start":475.903,"end":499.36,"text":"我在這邊我想因為剛剛已經做過機密專報我在這邊能夠說的就是說這個的確是美國主動調查之後來主動告知所以如果美國把我們當盤子或者是當鎧子的話美國就不會主動調查而來告知我們所以我們只是要強調這一點就是說美國有它一個蠻嚴謹的一個"},{"start":502.602,"end":526.254,"text":"﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":526.414,"end":530.776,"text":"部長,其實我會提到這個部分是因為其實從這個訊息對外釋出之後他所要形塑的會不會是一個認知作戰在裡面呢?因為從剛剛也有委員講到的就是這個總統的查會的部分媒體的報導的時間點"},{"start":553.248,"end":571.134,"text":"再從剛剛的這個案例再到之前其實更早曾經有出現就是國防部用坦克各軍種然後有一個所謂的南海工作會議的記錄後來被北檢證實是假文件我要強調的是其實在"},{"start":572.094,"end":592.883,"text":"國防部或者是軍事相關的內容跟機料跟自密當中其實確實都存在著可能被做認知作戰的部分那對於反制假錯訊息其實國防部也有提出說會有立即查證損害評估澄清與反制然後網路溯源跟因應那我為什麼會特別把這個講放在一起講是因為部長從剛剛我們講到的雷神案出現了內容農場"},{"start":600.526,"end":602.248,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為"},{"start":619.963,"end":629.406,"text":"二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為．並備質詢。二、針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續"},{"start":649.656,"end":674.193,"text":"告訴然後認證是假的文件大家知道這是假的就算是真的專業的媒體也會出現假消息的時候那麼之前往前推不論是南海的這個會議之外包括總統的查會雷神案那麼國防部有沒有也啟動了網路錯假訊息的反制又或者是調查呢"},{"start":675.385,"end":702.811,"text":"我想這個部分我們政戰局都會來就這個網路的錯假訊息來進行查證之後然後未來立即澄清跟反制這個是我們應該要做的事情那當然整個一個認知作戰可能是涉及到一個跨部會的議題所以我想很多的這個錯假訊息的立即應處我們也都需要跨部會的協作這樣子"},{"start":703.371,"end":726.387,"text":"所以說剛剛我們提到的我們知道像這個南海工作會議它確實是比較明確的就是以所謂假文件來做處理了嘛那其他的因為沒有一個文件出來但是我剛剛特別提到喔就是雷神案它也是有一個洩露不明確的信件來做定調那這個部分國防部會不會用假錯訊息來做調查呢?"},{"start":729.576,"end":747.818,"text":"我現在只能夠說這一個報導本身就是有剛委員所提到的他的一些謬誤跟誇大之處所以我想我們這個部分才會立即來做一個發新聞稿來做一個說明這樣"},{"start":748.519,"end":748.779,"text":"好,是。好,謝謝。謝謝。"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:06:23 - 11:19:13","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長報告一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢。二、「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢。【機密】）","id":155141,"gazette":{"lineno":484,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（11時6分）謝謝主席。主席，有請顧立雄部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["林委員楚茵：其他的將官們如果可以協助部長回應的話，請自動上臺，我就不再點名。","部長早安。首先因為風災，剛剛也有委員問到颱風假，不過我在這裡還是要對所有國軍弟兄，不論是在這一次之前的預備性清理、協助防災或者是後續的救災，從軍聞社提供的這些畫面可以看到，包括第二作戰區的東部、第三作戰區的北部及第四作戰區的南部，真的都是全員動起來，真的非常感謝國軍弟兄這段時間以來在山陀兒颱風當中的協助。","但是我想請問一下部長，您手上有沒有數字？這一次因為山陀兒的風災，北部、東部、南部都受創相當嚴重，有多少國軍弟兄投入整體預防性防災，包括先前的清理水溝、水利的疏通以及後續救災的協助？有多少的國軍弟兄參與？有多少人次？有沒有數據？"],["顧部長立雄：各作戰區的狀況不一致，我昨天才到高雄和屏東，我到現場之後，他們也提出來說今天還是需要相關的兵力來協助。因為南部是風比較大，所以我去看的時候，好多很大的樹都……"],["林委員楚茵：對，很多的路樹、大樹都倒在路上，會需要……"],["顧部長立雄：很大的樹都倒掉，清那些樹需要用鏈鋸把它先切除，再用抓斗車把它抓到車上，所以我們要協助地方政府的環保局來做相關的處理，這是南部的部分。"],["林委員楚茵：大型機工具的調度嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：對，所以相關的部分都投入了很多。北部的部分應該是雨大於風，在雨的部分，包括基隆、金山、萬里一帶也投入相關的兵力，到昨天為止，全部投入的兵力是6,769人次，大概是這樣。"],["林委員楚茵：6,769人次，所以非常感謝這些國軍弟兄們真的是展現了軍民一體的精神，不過剛剛我為什麼用這個來起頭？因為我相信再多的感謝都不如實質上面給予國軍弟兄加薪，或者是夜點費從60元提升到100元，還有休假補助、慰問金等等。","再來就是巧婦難為無米之炊啦！我相信更重要我們要有好的國防戰力的同時，武器當然也要精進，包括我們有新增一些建案，114年度也就是明年，有69億新增的建案，包括提升後備戰力、強化指管韌性、改善訓場設施與戰時醫療設備等等。其實這些在上個禮拜我們因為颱風影響而沒有進行的業報當中都有，包括最新的訊息公布，我們將有高達5.67億美金，史上最大的援助，包括我們的軍備等等，但是我們都知道現在114年度的總預算就是卡在程序委員會裡面，根本還沒有進來做實質審查。","我剛剛講了這麼多，先不要說後續的軍購或是新增的建案，單單給國軍弟兄的這些，包括明年3%的加薪或者是夜點費的提升，我們知道秋颱是非常可怕的，但是你無法預測，這也是為什麼這一次山陀兒颱風這麼讓人無法捉摸而又造成這麼大的災害。部長，您身為國防部的部長，預算如果卡住，國防部到底有沒有辦法調節？夜點費從60元變成100元，如果預算在今年度沒有過的時候，我們真的不增加不調漲嗎？或者國軍弟兄這麼辛苦來協助救災，明年3%加薪就真的要被擋住嗎？部長，就我們現有的財源當中，如果總預算被卡住的話，有沒有辦法可以做調節？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分是不是請主計局來說一下？"],["謝局長其賢：委員好，我是主計局局長。有關114年度的預算，如果沒辦法順利過的話，當然我們的新增案，剛剛提到的69億軍投新增案是沒辦法執行。至於其他的新增計畫，剛剛提到有關夜點費調升這一塊，當然也是沒辦法去執行的。"],["林委員楚茵：完全沒有辦法用其他的方式勻支，對不對？"],["謝局長其賢：一定要經過立法院同意之後才可以去執行，依然是114年度新的需求。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以本席還是希望國防部能夠向藍白的立委來做說明，因為弟兄真的不能餓，弟兄也辛苦。包括這些新增的建案或者是軍售，其實本席去找了資料，本席不是國防或武器相關的專業，但是如果根據我的瞭解，所有的新增建案它有非常多的節點，也不是預算編了就馬上可以買到相關的武器，這些都是要按部就班的。剛剛前面很多專業的國防委員們都在詢問，包括我們的武器什麼時候要來，包括我們跟美國的採購什麼要來，相信只要一個節點有任何的延遲就會影響到後續，我想部長和主計局一定都非常瞭解，這個部分就請你們能夠跟藍白立委多做說明。","另外，我要延續剛剛講到雷神案的部分，同樣的，如果是已經報導過的，那就不算是機密，所以本席會從媒體的角度來看這個事情，就是這中間的操作是不是太巧了？甚至於美方都主動調查，但是卻被操作成中間是臺灣變成「盤仔」。我們來看，這個報導是在6月4日的時候，你去詳細閱讀這篇報導，你會發現它只提到了中東的合約，而且這個合約是2011年到2013年，還提到有一案是2017年的。","關於這樣的整體行為，其實是美國的納稅人多繳了錢，和臺灣沒有任何的關聯，在這裡也沒有特別去提及臺灣，可是為什麼在10月1日這一天有一個像內容農場一樣的網站，開始針對雷神案扯到臺灣的軍購，而且用不明確的信件來定調臺灣變成「盤仔」，變成冤大頭？如果是媒體，照理說……本席以前在媒體工作過，像這樣重要的外電就算沒有第一時間，有時間差，隔個24小時之後它也會被翻譯出來，但是像這種經過了3、4個月之後，而且是特別在10月1日中共國慶的時候出現，我就想要就教過去曾經有國安會經驗的部長，您認為這會不會是一個假訊息、疑美論的操作？因為這一切的連結其實也非常地詭異。"],["顧部長立雄：我想剛剛已經做過機密專報，我在這邊能夠說的就是，這個的確是美國主動調查之後來主動告知，如果美國把我們當「盤仔」或者是當凱子的話，美國就不會主動調查而來告知我們。所以我們只是要強調這一點，美國有它滿嚴謹的一個稽核稽查的作業模式，這個是他們主動去稽查出來的一件事情，當然也不只是牽涉到我國，美國本身也都受害，所以這樣子的一種主動調查、主動告知，而且主動表示要償還浮收的費用，我想我們只是在強調這一點，美國並沒有把我們當「盤仔」或當凱子一樣。"],["林委員楚茵：好，部長，其實我會提到這個部分是因為這個訊息對外釋出之後，在裡面它所要形塑的會不會是一個認知作戰呢？因為剛剛也有委員講到總統茶會的部分，媒體報導的時間點，再從剛剛這個案例，再到之前更早曾經出現國防部用「坦克」、「各軍總部」的軍語，然後有一個「南海工作會議紀錄」，後來被北檢證實是假文件，我要強調的是，其實在國防部或者是軍事相關的內容、資料跟機密當中，確實都存在著可能被做認知作戰的部分。","對於反制假錯訊息，其實國防部也有提出會做立即查證、損害評估、澄清與反制、網路溯源跟因應，我為什麼會特別把這個放在一起講？是因為剛剛我們講到雷神案出現了內容農場誇大或者是過度去解讀雷神案，再到這一次總統茶會講說將官因為沒有站起來，所以總統震怒，發脾氣罵人甚至於摔資料，這種都是過度地解讀，然後透過網路、媒體去放大。再回溯到更早之前2023年的「南海工作會議紀錄」都被北檢證實是假文件的時候，可以感受到的是，利用這種資訊落差的認知作戰其實是在持續當中，那麼如果說國防部也寫了一個報告，對於網路的錯假訊息會有反制，那我就想問，剛剛我所提到的幾個例子，除了南海工作會議是有經過告訴，然後被認證是假文件，大家知道這是假的，就算是真的專業媒體也會有出現假消息的時候，那麼往前推，除了南海這個會議之外，包括總統的茶會、雷神案，國防部有沒有啟動了網路錯假訊息的反制或者是調查呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個部分，我們政戰局會就網路的錯假訊息來進行查證，然後會來立即澄清和反制，這個是我們應該要做的事情。當然整個認知作戰可能是涉及到跨部會的議題，所以很多錯假訊息的立即應處，我們也都需要跨部會的協作。"],["林委員楚茵：所以剛剛我們提到的，我們知道南海工作會議它確實是比較明確地以假文件來做處理了，其他的因為沒有文件出來，但是我剛剛特別提到雷神案也是有洩漏不明確的信件來做定調，這個部分國防部會不會用假錯訊息來做調查呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我現在只能夠說這個報導本身有剛剛委員所提到的一些謬誤與誇大之處，所以我們就這個部分才會立即發一個新聞稿來做說明。"],["林委員楚茵：好，本席希望除了說明和澄清之外，這個是不是有線頭可以去追？是有特定的認知作戰在裡面，尤其是時間點上的巧合，可以先暫時不對本席公布，但是我希望你們在更進一步瞭解之後，來為我們提出一個相關的報告，好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：好，是。謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，部長請回。","我們先休息5分鐘。","休息（11時19分）","繼續開會（11時25分）"],["主席：請大家就座，我們現在繼續開會。","接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-2","speakers":["林憶君","黃仁","沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","徐巧芯","王定宇","林楚茵","陳永康","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林國成","黃國昌","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張啓楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告：一、「台美國防工業會議成效及合作現況與未來展望」，並備質詢；二、\n「針對美國軍火商雷神對台軍售涉虛報軍售價格情事及後續因應及精進作為」，並備質詢【機\n密】","agenda_id":"1137901_00005"}}}