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{\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,860 --> 00:00:07,442\n主席有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,758 --> 00:00:44,581\n日前衛福部長邱太元爆料說賴清德總統為了臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放的問題打電話罵你那我在總質詢的時候提議邱部長跟您握手這個風波雖然化解但是臺灣醫療院所減碳的問題還是個嚴肅的問題所以我有些問題想要就教於部長首先我想請問部長目前臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放量大概目前佔比是多少百分比\n\n3\n00:00:46,962 --> 00:01:12,697\n4.6那請問跟世界平均值比起來高還是低呢?高0.2那現在政府有計劃向醫療院所徵收攤費嗎?沒有為什麼?因為第一個是說醫院是救人的而且醫院也不是像這種工業的排碳大戶這麼的大那工業的排碳大戶其實但是我也必須說委員像有些中大型的醫院它的排碳量不會亞於一個工廠\n\n4\n00:01:13,477 --> 00:01:31,614\n因為他要用很這個一定的這個溫度還有這個負壓所以其實他的排碳量也是蠻多的但是沒有像工廠那麼的多我覺得部長講的很好是要全球醫療院所很多都是排碳大戶的台灣也有很多醫療院所是排碳大戶但是因為醫療院所本身有救人的特性所以在\n\n5\n00:01:32,174 --> 00:01:32,355\n委員會主席\n\n6\n00:01:47,714 --> 00:01:49,095\n對,我來整理一下我們的那個衛福部長的看法啦,他是說醫療機構在處理這個\n\n7\n00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:09,070\n你覺得這個主張有道理嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:31,598 --> 00:02:55,309\n全世界目前也沒有什麼碳稅或碳費給醫療機構的例子所以這就是我要講的所以很顯然我們的衛福部對其他國家的狀況好像也沒有搞得非常清楚所以後來其實部長您原來對邱部長的意見您的回應本來是什麼你本來是說希望部分碳費能撥入醫療領域\n\n9\n00:02:57,310 --> 00:03:26,054\n那你那時候回邱太元部長說那個碳費才一點點啦然後衛福部錢比我們多而且事實上你剛剛也講嘛其他國家其實沒有這個做法嘛對不對我私底下跟邱部長說那你要證明你這個氣候變遷醫療的增加是因為氣候變遷影響的你證明給我看那當然這個證明是困難的嘛他當然無法證明啊他不要講無法證明他連其他國家所謂的不收碳費的或碳稅的醫療院所\n\n10\n00:03:27,014 --> 00:03:45,162\n結果還把碳稅跟碳費拿去補貼這個醫院的他都沒舉出例子來嗎?他有舉出例子來嗎?沒有嗎?好所以呢這個但是顯然部長對這是不滿意才打電話給總統嗎?但是總統對你的主張有買單了嗎?你剛剛做回答這有跟總統解釋嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:45,762 --> 00:04:11,056\n報告委員其實我必須在這個地方還原澄清總統並沒有罵我我知道你有說沒有罵你他是提醒我說醫療機構我舉例蘇委員的這個醫院他經營得很好但我相信也很辛苦然後我們應該用別的資源然後用保險基金等等用ESCO的方式來幫助醫院這個忙這樣做叫我鼓勵我可以這樣做院長也知道所以我們一起就是做其實我不是說\n\n12\n00:04:11,616 --> 00:04:13,839\n所以我就讓你還原那至少賴總統看起來也接受你的說法嘛是嗎\n\n13\n00:04:29,381 --> 00:04:47,568\n對對那現在對於兩個部會你們現在有沒有比較折衷的做法是什麼我看了就是說環境部跟經濟部儘管會要導入保險基金嘛對不對幫助醫療院所進行節能減碳嘛所以換言之不是從碳費裡面去雲波啦對不對不是不是我最後還做個簡單的結論\n\n14\n00:04:49,329 --> 00:05:05,852\n因為現在部長你要來開始要在研議這個開徵碳費實際上當然被收的人都會痛被收的人都會有很多的意見所以壓力也很大但是我覺得要秉持專業實際上我也不認同說今天\n\n15\n00:05:06,493 --> 00:05:06,653\n謝謝羅委員謝謝部長\n\n16\n00:05:36,182 --> 00:05:36,611\n接下來我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6860\t7442\t主席有請部長\n14758\t44581\t日前衛福部長邱太元爆料說賴清德總統為了臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放的問題打電話罵你那我在總質詢的時候提議邱部長跟您握手這個風波雖然化解但是臺灣醫療院所減碳的問題還是個嚴肅的問題所以我有些問題想要就教於部長首先我想請問部長目前臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放量大概目前佔比是多少百分比\n46962\t72697\t4.6那請問跟世界平均值比起來高還是低呢?高0.2那現在政府有計劃向醫療院所徵收攤費嗎?沒有為什麼?因為第一個是說醫院是救人的而且醫院也不是像這種工業的排碳大戶這麼的大那工業的排碳大戶其實但是我也必須說委員像有些中大型的醫院它的排碳量不會亞於一個工廠\n73477\t91614\t因為他要用很這個一定的這個溫度還有這個負壓所以其實他的排碳量也是蠻多的但是沒有像工廠那麼的多我覺得部長講的很好是要全球醫療院所很多都是排碳大戶的台灣也有很多醫療院所是排碳大戶但是因為醫療院所本身有救人的特性所以在\n92174\t92355\t委員會主席\n107714\t109095\t對,我來整理一下我們的那個衛福部長的看法啦,他是說醫療機構在處理這個\n128490\t129070\t你覺得這個主張有道理嗎?\n151598\t175309\t全世界目前也沒有什麼碳稅或碳費給醫療機構的例子所以這就是我要講的所以很顯然我們的衛福部對其他國家的狀況好像也沒有搞得非常清楚所以後來其實部長您原來對邱部長的意見您的回應本來是什麼你本來是說希望部分碳費能撥入醫療領域\n177310\t206054\t那你那時候回邱太元部長說那個碳費才一點點啦然後衛福部錢比我們多而且事實上你剛剛也講嘛其他國家其實沒有這個做法嘛對不對我私底下跟邱部長說那你要證明你這個氣候變遷醫療的增加是因為氣候變遷影響的你證明給我看那當然這個證明是困難的嘛他當然無法證明啊他不要講無法證明他連其他國家所謂的不收碳費的或碳稅的醫療院所\n207014\t225162\t結果還把碳稅跟碳費拿去補貼這個醫院的他都沒舉出例子來嗎?他有舉出例子來嗎?沒有嗎?好所以呢這個但是顯然部長對這是不滿意才打電話給總統嗎?但是總統對你的主張有買單了嗎?你剛剛做回答這有跟總統解釋嗎?\n225762\t251056\t報告委員其實我必須在這個地方還原澄清總統並沒有罵我我知道你有說沒有罵你他是提醒我說醫療機構我舉例蘇委員的這個醫院他經營得很好但我相信也很辛苦然後我們應該用別的資源然後用保險基金等等用ESCO的方式來幫助醫院這個忙這樣做叫我鼓勵我可以這樣做院長也知道所以我們一起就是做其實我不是說\n251616\t253839\t所以我就讓你還原那至少賴總統看起來也接受你的說法嘛是嗎\n269381\t287568\t對對那現在對於兩個部會你們現在有沒有比較折衷的做法是什麼我看了就是說環境部跟經濟部儘管會要導入保險基金嘛對不對幫助醫療院所進行節能減碳嘛所以換言之不是從碳費裡面去雲波啦對不對不是不是我最後還做個簡單的結論\n289329\t305852\t因為現在部長你要來開始要在研議這個開徵碳費 實際上當然被收的人都會痛被收的人都會有很多的意見 所以壓力也很大但是我覺得要秉持專業 實際上我也不認同說今天\n306493\t306653\t謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長\n336182\t336611\t接下來我們請\n","txt":"主席有請部長\n日前衛福部長邱太元爆料說賴清德總統為了臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放的問題打電話罵你那我在總質詢的時候提議邱部長跟您握手這個風波雖然化解但是臺灣醫療院所減碳的問題還是個嚴肅的問題所以我有些問題想要就教於部長首先我想請問部長目前臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放量大概目前佔比是多少百分比\n4.6那請問跟世界平均值比起來高還是低呢?高0.2那現在政府有計劃向醫療院所徵收攤費嗎?沒有為什麼?因為第一個是說醫院是救人的而且醫院也不是像這種工業的排碳大戶這麼的大那工業的排碳大戶其實但是我也必須說委員像有些中大型的醫院它的排碳量不會亞於一個工廠\n因為他要用很這個一定的這個溫度還有這個負壓所以其實他的排碳量也是蠻多的但是沒有像工廠那麼的多我覺得部長講的很好是要全球醫療院所很多都是排碳大戶的台灣也有很多醫療院所是排碳大戶但是因為醫療院所本身有救人的特性所以在\n委員會主席\n對,我來整理一下我們的那個衛福部長的看法啦,他是說醫療機構在處理這個\n你覺得這個主張有道理嗎?\n全世界目前也沒有什麼碳稅或碳費給醫療機構的例子所以這就是我要講的所以很顯然我們的衛福部對其他國家的狀況好像也沒有搞得非常清楚所以後來其實部長您原來對邱部長的意見您的回應本來是什麼你本來是說希望部分碳費能撥入醫療領域\n那你那時候回邱太元部長說那個碳費才一點點啦然後衛福部錢比我們多而且事實上你剛剛也講嘛其他國家其實沒有這個做法嘛對不對我私底下跟邱部長說那你要證明你這個氣候變遷醫療的增加是因為氣候變遷影響的你證明給我看那當然這個證明是困難的嘛他當然無法證明啊他不要講無法證明他連其他國家所謂的不收碳費的或碳稅的醫療院所\n結果還把碳稅跟碳費拿去補貼這個醫院的他都沒舉出例子來嗎?他有舉出例子來嗎?沒有嗎?好所以呢這個但是顯然部長對這是不滿意才打電話給總統嗎?但是總統對你的主張有買單了嗎?你剛剛做回答這有跟總統解釋嗎?\n報告委員其實我必須在這個地方還原澄清總統並沒有罵我我知道你有說沒有罵你他是提醒我說醫療機構我舉例蘇委員的這個醫院他經營得很好但我相信也很辛苦然後我們應該用別的資源然後用保險基金等等用ESCO的方式來幫助醫院這個忙這樣做叫我鼓勵我可以這樣做院長也知道所以我們一起就是做其實我不是說\n所以我就讓你還原那至少賴總統看起來也接受你的說法嘛是嗎\n對對那現在對於兩個部會你們現在有沒有比較折衷的做法是什麼我看了就是說環境部跟經濟部儘管會要導入保險基金嘛對不對幫助醫療院所進行節能減碳嘛所以換言之不是從碳費裡面去雲波啦對不對不是不是我最後還做個簡單的結論\n因為現在部長你要來開始要在研議這個開徵碳費 實際上當然被收的人都會痛被收的人都會有很多的意見 所以壓力也很大但是我覺得要秉持專業 實際上我也不認同說今天\n謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長\n接下來我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.860 --> 00:07.442\n主席有請部長\n\n00:14.758 --> 00:44.581\n日前衛福部長邱太元爆料說賴清德總統為了臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放的問題打電話罵你那我在總質詢的時候提議邱部長跟您握手這個風波雖然化解但是臺灣醫療院所減碳的問題還是個嚴肅的問題所以我有些問題想要就教於部長首先我想請問部長目前臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放量大概目前佔比是多少百分比\n\n00:46.962 --> 01:12.697\n4.6那請問跟世界平均值比起來高還是低呢?高0.2那現在政府有計劃向醫療院所徵收攤費嗎?沒有為什麼?因為第一個是說醫院是救人的而且醫院也不是像這種工業的排碳大戶這麼的大那工業的排碳大戶其實但是我也必須說委員像有些中大型的醫院它的排碳量不會亞於一個工廠\n\n01:13.477 --> 01:31.614\n因為他要用很這個一定的這個溫度還有這個負壓所以其實他的排碳量也是蠻多的但是沒有像工廠那麼的多我覺得部長講的很好是要全球醫療院所很多都是排碳大戶的台灣也有很多醫療院所是排碳大戶但是因為醫療院所本身有救人的特性所以在\n\n01:32.174 --> 01:32.355\n委員會主席\n\n01:47.714 --> 01:49.095\n對,我來整理一下我們的那個衛福部長的看法啦,他是說醫療機構在處理這個\n\n02:08.490 --> 02:09.070\n你覺得這個主張有道理嗎?\n\n02:31.598 --> 02:55.309\n全世界目前也沒有什麼碳稅或碳費給醫療機構的例子所以這就是我要講的所以很顯然我們的衛福部對其他國家的狀況好像也沒有搞得非常清楚所以後來其實部長您原來對邱部長的意見您的回應本來是什麼你本來是說希望部分碳費能撥入醫療領域\n\n02:57.310 --> 03:26.054\n那你那時候回邱太元部長說那個碳費才一點點啦然後衛福部錢比我們多而且事實上你剛剛也講嘛其他國家其實沒有這個做法嘛對不對我私底下跟邱部長說那你要證明你這個氣候變遷醫療的增加是因為氣候變遷影響的你證明給我看那當然這個證明是困難的嘛他當然無法證明啊他不要講無法證明他連其他國家所謂的不收碳費的或碳稅的醫療院所\n\n03:27.014 --> 03:45.162\n結果還把碳稅跟碳費拿去補貼這個醫院的他都沒舉出例子來嗎?他有舉出例子來嗎?沒有嗎?好所以呢這個但是顯然部長對這是不滿意才打電話給總統嗎?但是總統對你的主張有買單了嗎?你剛剛做回答這有跟總統解釋嗎?\n\n03:45.762 --> 04:11.056\n報告委員其實我必須在這個地方還原澄清總統並沒有罵我我知道你有說沒有罵你他是提醒我說醫療機構我舉例蘇委員的這個醫院他經營得很好但我相信也很辛苦然後我們應該用別的資源然後用保險基金等等用ESCO的方式來幫助醫院這個忙這樣做叫我鼓勵我可以這樣做院長也知道所以我們一起就是做其實我不是說\n\n04:11.616 --> 04:13.839\n所以我就讓你還原那至少賴總統看起來也接受你的說法嘛是嗎\n\n04:29.381 --> 04:47.568\n對對那現在對於兩個部會你們現在有沒有比較折衷的做法是什麼我看了就是說環境部跟經濟部儘管會要導入保險基金嘛對不對幫助醫療院所進行節能減碳嘛所以換言之不是從碳費裡面去雲波啦對不對不是不是我最後還做個簡單的結論\n\n04:49.329 --> 05:05.852\n因為現在部長你要來開始要在研議這個開徵碳費實際上當然被收的人都會痛被收的人都會有很多的意見所以壓力也很大但是我覺得要秉持專業實際上我也不認同說今天\n\n05:06.493 --> 05:06.653\n謝謝羅委員謝謝部長\n\n05:36.182 --> 05:36.611\n接下來我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.86,"end":7.442,"text":"主席有請部長"},{"start":14.758,"end":44.581,"text":"日前衛福部長邱太元爆料說賴清德總統為了臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放的問題打電話罵你那我在總質詢的時候提議邱部長跟您握手這個風波雖然化解但是臺灣醫療院所減碳的問題還是個嚴肅的問題所以我有些問題想要就教於部長首先我想請問部長目前臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放量大概目前佔比是多少百分比"},{"start":46.962,"end":72.697,"text":"4.6那請問跟世界平均值比起來高還是低呢?高0.2那現在政府有計劃向醫療院所徵收攤費嗎?沒有為什麼?因為第一個是說醫院是救人的而且醫院也不是像這種工業的排碳大戶這麼的大那工業的排碳大戶其實但是我也必須說委員像有些中大型的醫院它的排碳量不會亞於一個工廠"},{"start":73.477,"end":91.614,"text":"因為他要用很這個一定的這個溫度還有這個負壓所以其實他的排碳量也是蠻多的但是沒有像工廠那麼的多我覺得部長講的很好是要全球醫療院所很多都是排碳大戶的台灣也有很多醫療院所是排碳大戶但是因為醫療院所本身有救人的特性所以在"},{"start":92.174,"end":92.355,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":107.714,"end":109.095,"text":"對,我來整理一下我們的那個衛福部長的看法啦,他是說醫療機構在處理這個"},{"start":128.49,"end":129.07,"text":"你覺得這個主張有道理嗎?"},{"start":151.598,"end":175.309,"text":"全世界目前也沒有什麼碳稅或碳費給醫療機構的例子所以這就是我要講的所以很顯然我們的衛福部對其他國家的狀況好像也沒有搞得非常清楚所以後來其實部長您原來對邱部長的意見您的回應本來是什麼你本來是說希望部分碳費能撥入醫療領域"},{"start":177.31,"end":206.054,"text":"那你那時候回邱太元部長說那個碳費才一點點啦然後衛福部錢比我們多而且事實上你剛剛也講嘛其他國家其實沒有這個做法嘛對不對我私底下跟邱部長說那你要證明你這個氣候變遷醫療的增加是因為氣候變遷影響的你證明給我看那當然這個證明是困難的嘛他當然無法證明啊他不要講無法證明他連其他國家所謂的不收碳費的或碳稅的醫療院所"},{"start":207.014,"end":225.162,"text":"結果還把碳稅跟碳費拿去補貼這個醫院的他都沒舉出例子來嗎?他有舉出例子來嗎?沒有嗎?好所以呢這個但是顯然部長對這是不滿意才打電話給總統嗎?但是總統對你的主張有買單了嗎?你剛剛做回答這有跟總統解釋嗎?"},{"start":225.762,"end":251.056,"text":"報告委員其實我必須在這個地方還原澄清總統並沒有罵我我知道你有說沒有罵你他是提醒我說醫療機構我舉例蘇委員的這個醫院他經營得很好但我相信也很辛苦然後我們應該用別的資源然後用保險基金等等用ESCO的方式來幫助醫院這個忙這樣做叫我鼓勵我可以這樣做院長也知道所以我們一起就是做其實我不是說"},{"start":251.616,"end":253.839,"text":"所以我就讓你還原那至少賴總統看起來也接受你的說法嘛是嗎"},{"start":269.381,"end":287.568,"text":"對對那現在對於兩個部會你們現在有沒有比較折衷的做法是什麼我看了就是說環境部跟經濟部儘管會要導入保險基金嘛對不對幫助醫療院所進行節能減碳嘛所以換言之不是從碳費裡面去雲波啦對不對不是不是我最後還做個簡單的結論"},{"start":289.329,"end":305.852,"text":"因為現在部長你要來開始要在研議這個開徵碳費 實際上當然被收的人都會痛被收的人都會有很多的意見 所以壓力也很大但是我覺得要秉持專業 實際上我也不認同說今天"},{"start":306.493,"end":306.653,"text":"謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長"},{"start":336.182,"end":336.611,"text":"接下來我們請"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:39:35 - 11:45:11","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155163,"gazette":{"lineno":828,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（11時39分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["彭部長啓明：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。日前衛福部長邱泰源爆料，說賴清德總統為了臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放的問題，打電話罵你。我在總質詢的時候，有提議邱部長跟您握手，這個風波雖然化解，但是臺灣醫療院所減碳還是個嚴肅的問題，所以我有些問題想要就教於部長。首先，我想請問部長，目前臺灣醫療院所溫室氣體排放量的占比大概是多少百分比？"],["彭部長啓明：4.6。"],["羅委員智強：4.6，好。那請問跟世界平均值比起來，高還是低呢？"],["彭部長啓明：高0.2。"],["羅委員智強：高0.2，好。現在政府有計畫向醫療院所徵收碳費嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有嘛！為什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：因為第一個是說醫院是救人的，而且醫院也不是像這種工業的排碳大戶這麼的大。那工業的排碳大戶呢？其實我也必須說，像有些中大型的醫院，它的排碳量不會亞於一個工廠，因為它要用一定的溫度還有負壓，所以其實它的排碳量也是蠻多的，但是沒有像工廠那麼的多。"],["羅委員智強：好，我覺得部長講得很好。事實上，全球醫療院所很多都是排碳大戶，臺灣也有很多醫療院所是排碳大戶，但是因為醫療院所本身有救人的特性，所以比照其他國家的作法，我們沒有把醫療院所納入徵收碳費的對象，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["羅委員智強：可是即便臺灣醫療院所不收碳費，我們衛福部長顯然對這件事還是不滿意對不對，為什麼？當時啦！當時為什麼不滿意？"],["彭部長啓明：因為他跟我要碳費嘛！我說預算你衛福部比我多，我們環境部預算比你少那麼多，碳費一開始也不會那麼多，所以你們要自己做。"],["羅委員智強：對，我來整理一下我們衛福部長的看法。他是說醫療機構在處理ESG議題的時候，因為很多國家都把部分的碳費撥入醫療領域，幫助醫院執行ESG改革。臺灣目前沒有這個規劃，所以認為環境部沒有給醫療院所足夠的資源，讓醫院執行淨零排碳。你覺得這個主張有道理嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：全世界目前也沒有什麼碳稅或碳費給醫療機構的例子。"],["羅委員智強：對，這就是我要講的，所以很顯然我們的衛福部對其他國家的狀況好像也沒有搞得非常清楚。其實部長對於邱部長的意見，您的回應本來是什麼？你本來是說，他說希望部分碳費能撥入醫療領域嘛！你那時候回邱泰源部長說，那個碳費才一點點，然後衛福部錢比我們多。而且事實上，你剛剛也講其他國家其實沒有這個作法，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：我私底下跟邱部長說，那你要證明你這個氣候變遷，醫療的增加是因為氣候變遷影響的，你證明給我看。當然，這個證明是困難的嘛！"],["羅委員智強：他當然無法證明，不要講無法證明，他連其他國家不收碳費或碳稅的醫療院所……結果還要把碳稅跟碳費拿去補貼醫院的，他都沒舉出例子來嘛！他有舉出例子來嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有嘛！好，所以顯然部長對這個不滿意，才打電話給總統，但是總統對你的主張有買單了嗎？你剛剛的回答，這有跟總統解釋嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實我必須在這個地方還原澄清，總統並沒有罵我……"],["羅委員智強：我知道，你有說沒有罵你。"],["彭部長啓明：他是提醒我說醫療機構，我舉例，蘇委員的醫院經營得很好，但我相信也很辛苦，我們應該用別的資源，用保險基金等等，用ESCO的方式來幫助醫院這個忙，鼓勵我可以這樣做，院長也知道，所以我們就是一起做。其實我也出了一個無心之過，因為我就跟邱部長說，總統「給我唸」要做得更好，所以我在這個地方也謝謝委員，讓我還原一下。"],["羅委員智強：好，所以我就讓你還原。至少賴總統看起來也接受你的說法，是嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["羅委員智強：那現在對於兩個部會，你們現在有沒有比較折衷的作法？我看了就是說，環境部跟經濟部、金管會要導入保險基金，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["羅委員智強：幫助醫療院所進行節能減碳，換言之，不是從碳費裡面去勻撥，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：不是。"],["羅委員智強：不是。我最後來做個簡單的結論，因為現在部長開始要來研議開徵碳費，當然被收的人都會痛，被收的人都會有很多意見，所以壓力也很大，但是我覺得要秉持專業啦！事實上，我也不認同如果今天在某個地方沒收碳費，還把碳費拿去補助他，那對於其他收碳費的相關產業，他們當然會更有意見嘛！對不對？對於其他沒有收碳費的產業，是不是也一樣要比照來補貼碳費？所以我覺得部長這個堅持是對的啦！也希望將來在溝通的時候……我們尤其在碳費上壓力很大，你要挺住。好，謝謝！"],["彭部長啓明：沒問題，謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員，謝謝部長。接續我們請黃秀芳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","王正旭","楊曜","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","羅智強","黃秀芳","劉建國","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","邱若華","何欣純","林淑芬","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","林倩綺","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長針對「垃圾裸露堆置及災後垃圾妥善處理對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00004"}}}