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\"end\": 207.512, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 207.512, \"end\": 207.972, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 207.972, \"end\": 208.212, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 208.212, \"end\": 208.352, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 208.352, \"end\": 208.492, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 208.492, \"end\": 208.872, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 208.872, \"end\": 209.092, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 209.092, \"end\": 210.012, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 210.012, \"end\": 210.372, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 210.372, \"end\": 210.672, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 210.672, \"end\": 210.912, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 210.912, \"end\": 211.352, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"B\", \"start\": 211.352, \"end\": 211.672, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 211.672, \"end\": 211.912, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"s\", \"start\": 211.912, \"end\": 212.092, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"c\", \"start\": 212.092, \"end\": 212.532, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"h\", \"start\": 212.532, \"end\": 212.773, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 212.773, \"end\": 212.933, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 212.933, \"end\": 213.173, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 213.173, \"end\": 214.193, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 214.193, \"end\": 214.353, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"鏈\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 214.353, \"end\": 214.373, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 215.433, \"end\": 220.954, \"text\": \"那這個就是從一個傳統的剎車的腳踏車剎車的產業走進了一個電動電腐車的這個領域裡面而且打進了全世界最大的一個這個電腐車廠家那這些都是透過從一個這個從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面那這個都是屬於我們認為他可以去發展的\", \"words\": 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0.955}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 220.934, \"end\": 220.954, \"score\": 0.477}]}, {\"start\": 237.558, \"end\": 258.252, \"text\": \"好 那我還要再請問就是我們現在碳費它徵收的標準是以大型企業為主但是我們知道未來大型企業他們是上游廠商嗎那他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 237.558, \"end\": 238.179, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 238.179, \"end\": 238.439, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 238.439, \"end\": 238.759, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 238.759, \"end\": 238.919, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 238.919, \"end\": 239.82, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 239.82, \"end\": 240.0, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 240.0, \"end\": 240.24, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 240.24, \"end\": 240.94, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 240.94, \"end\": 241.261, \"score\": 0.933}, 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\"個\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 318.154, \"end\": 318.474, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 318.474, \"end\": 318.774, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 318.774, \"end\": 318.914, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 318.914, \"end\": 319.475, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 319.475, \"end\": 319.975, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 319.975, \"end\": 319.995, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 319.995, \"end\": 320.175, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 320.175, \"end\": 320.195, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 320.195, \"end\": 320.275, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 320.275, \"end\": 320.295, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 320.295, \"end\": 320.315, 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493.662, \"end\": 493.842, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 493.842, \"end\": 493.942, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 493.942, \"end\": 494.082, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 494.082, \"end\": 494.362, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 494.362, \"end\": 494.522, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 494.522, \"end\": 494.682, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 494.682, \"end\": 494.822, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 494.822, \"end\": 494.922, \"score\": 0.653}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 494.922, \"end\": 495.042, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 495.042, \"end\": 495.182, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 495.182, \"end\": 495.282, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 495.282, \"end\": 495.302, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 495.302, \"end\": 495.903, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 495.903, \"end\": 495.923, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 497.233, \"end\": 497.697, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 497.697, \"end\": 497.717, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,770 --> 00:00:19,176\n我們其實有非常多的政策是來延攬專業的人才但是其實我們發現了中小企業現在他們的勞工都高齡化了那對於中小企業勞工高齡化問題我們國發會跟我們經濟部怎麼解決\n\n2\n00:00:22,655 --> 00:00:49,434\n目前就我了解就是在勞動部有訂一個中高齡就業相關的法令然後也有給予一定的這個優惠給這些企業所以希望協助這個高齡者能夠就業原因是現在的人身體比較健康然後我們的全球在相較來講我們的這個高齡的就業勞參率也比較低所以目前的話勞動部的做法是這樣的\n\n3\n00:00:51,656 --> 00:01:17,458\n那經濟部呢?跟委員報告其實我們在這個中小竊販條例裡面也有修正就是說如果要徵雇這個65歲以上的基層員工的話我們會有做一些抵檢抵檢率可以達到200以上租稅優惠嗎?對對對但是我想要了解的以年輕的勞工來講他們通常喜歡科技產業多過於中小傳產這樣子的產業\n\n4\n00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:47,012\n那怎麼樣子促進就是我們就是年輕人口對於我們中小企業的創新研發能力的這個精進那才能夠讓中小企業未來因為以目前我看到國發會目前的情況你們會不會都只重視AI產業那對於中小企業的創新研究也不重視那這樣子的情況下\n\n5\n00:01:48,132 --> 00:01:59,838\n如果未來我們的年輕的勞工都流向了高科技的產業那中小企業如何能夠有創新、研發的這樣一個動能呢?是不是?國科委、國發會主委\n\n6\n00:02:02,144 --> 00:02:20,504\n跟委員報告關於這一點其實我們也很重視所以我們在創新創業的雨林生態系裡面我們保留的創新就是希望這些中小企業都能夠走入創新那我們也會從投資的角度給予他們一定的協助\n\n7\n00:02:21,587 --> 00:02:49,393\n所以你是以投資抵減還是怎麼樣?原因是這樣我說明一下現在企業中小企業大概遇到兩種狀況第一個它處於一個成長型的產業那它靠創新維生的另外一個是它屬於成熟型產業成熟型產業它其實它如果去比成本的話會很辛苦比創新會比較有未來所以我們希望這些人都從創新的角度去發展那創新不一定是AI是各個產業都可以有創新\n\n8\n00:02:50,273 --> 00:03:08,508\n那我們希望大家都走進去所以你是希望把AI引進不一定是AI只要是創新都是可行的那你能不能再具體一點因為你這樣講有一點天馬行空因為大家不知道說你怎麼樣子把創新引進到中小企業\n\n9\n00:03:09,188 --> 00:03:34,373\n我舉個例子在我們彰化有一個做腳踏車過去做剎車的公司那他們現在就去研發了一個就是未來整個自行車會走到電腐車的世界他們就在設立了一個研發中心專門在研發這個部分那現在他的產品已經走已經被那個Bosch納入他的這個供應鏈裡面\n\n10\n00:03:35,433 --> 00:03:40,954\n那這個就是從一個傳統的剎車的腳踏車剎車的產業走進了一個電動電腐車的這個領域裡面而且打進了全世界最大的一個這個電腐車廠家那這些都是透過從一個這個從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面那這個都是屬於我們認為他可以去發展的\n\n11\n00:03:57,558 --> 00:04:18,252\n好那我還要再請問就是我們現在碳費它徵收的標準是以大型企業為主但是我們知道未來大型企業他們是上游廠商嗎那他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈\n\n12\n00:04:19,713 --> 00:04:40,997\n那所以上游的廠商如果把這些碳費的成本轉嫁給我們中小企業或是中下游的工廠的時候那這樣子勢必會影響到中小企業的生產成本我們知道目前電價的上漲已經對中小企業的成本已經增加非常多了\n\n13\n00:04:41,277 --> 00:04:56,110\n那未來如果碳費的進一步的轉嫁到我們的中小企業的時候那是不是對他們的生產成本也勢必會增加也會壓縮到他們的空間那這個部分我們政府部門怎麼樣來協助他們\n\n14\n00:04:58,878 --> 00:05:20,996\n我們有幾個作業現在正在進行中因為碳費的如果要實施的話他是會到2026年才會開始收所以這段時間還有一個緩衝期那我們現在呢第一個我們現在第一個是我們有在找環境部我們希望他成立一個綠色成長基金那這個綠色成長基金來協助這個企業開始進行這個減碳的工作\n\n15\n00:05:24,739 --> 00:05:43,401\n那另外其實跟經濟部我們開始也進入也開始投資像Exco之類的東西去協助這些產業進行這個減碳的動作所以這些都有都是希望能夠幫助這個企業降低它的衝擊那我想要問一下我們中小企業處那你們是怎麼樣子做這個部分\n\n16\n00:05:43,942 --> 00:06:12,237\n跟委員報告其實最主要就是說要輔導企業他要能夠減碳那這個部分我們其實跟一些工協會都已經有建立這樣的一個合作的網絡大家用大帶小的方式來協助一些中小企業他從整個供應鏈來做減碳能夠讓整個碳的這個成本能夠降低那當然就是還有一個是節能的部分剛剛主委講到這個部分也是我們會加大力道來推動\n\n17\n00:06:13,237 --> 00:06:32,831\n那你們怎麼樣加大力度推動就是因為這些中小企業即便他們願意執行的去探盤查就是加入了這個就是因為有可能他們是對歐的貿易嘛那他們可能要有進行探盤查可是對於探排放就是的這樣\n\n18\n00:06:33,632 --> 00:06:49,430\n量的計算的能力以及執行探盤查的這樣的情況的驗證那我們目前國內的驗證機關是否足夠那現在是怎麼樣的情況你是不是能跟國民報告好\n\n19\n00:06:50,511 --> 00:07:00,545\n目前除了就是說有國外的驗證機構以外我們為了要補足那個量能的話我們現在大概國內有幾家法人成立的這個驗證機構大概有6、7家左右的驗證機構包括\n\n20\n00:07:05,131 --> 00:07:05,451\n對,我們自己有法人可以來做輔導,對。\n\n21\n00:07:31,776 --> 00:07:45,350\n那這樣子的能量是否足夠呢?你們現在目前做的就是說中小企業碳排查的比例多高?是因為這件工作其實大概已經兩年前就已經開始在做了那所以陸陸續續其實都以這個\n\n22\n00:07:50,575 --> 00:08:15,923\n從這個被歐盟規範的這個產業為優先那我們這個慢慢的就是說開始把一些國內的這個重要的這些這個製造業的聚落我們大概都都走了一遍那目前跟工協會其實都還在相關的這些碳盤炒的工作都還在進行當中所以我們希望就是說蘇歐的這個產品基本上大概都八九成應該都已經都已經完成了\n\n23\n00:08:17,233 --> 00:08:17,717\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1770\t19176\t我們其實有非常多的政策是來延攬專業的人才但是其實我們發現了中小企業現在他們的勞工都高齡化了那對於中小企業勞工高齡化問題我們國發會跟我們經濟部怎麼解決\n22655\t49434\t目前就我了解就是在勞動部有訂一個中高齡就業相關的法令然後也有給予一定的這個優惠給這些企業所以希望協助這個高齡者能夠就業原因是現在的人身體比較健康然後我們的全球在相較來講我們的這個高齡的就業勞參率也比較低所以目前的話勞動部的做法是這樣的\n51656\t77458\t那經濟部呢?跟委員報告其實我們在這個中小竊販條例裡面也有修正就是說如果要徵雇這個65歲以上的基層員工的話我們會有做一些抵檢抵檢率可以達到200以上租稅優惠嗎?對對對但是我想要了解的以年輕的勞工來講他們通常喜歡科技產業多過於中小傳產這樣子的產業\n79420\t107012\t那怎麼樣子促進就是我們就是年輕人口對於我們中小企業的創新研發能力的這個精進那才能夠讓中小企業未來因為以目前我看到國發會目前的情況你們會不會都只重視AI產業那對於中小企業的創新研究也不重視那這樣子的情況下\n108132\t119838\t如果未來我們的年輕的勞工都流向了高科技的產業那中小企業如何能夠有創新、研發的這樣一個動能呢?是不是?國科委、國發會主委\n122144\t140504\t跟委員報告關於這一點其實我們也很重視所以我們在創新創業的雨林生態系裡面我們保留的創新就是希望這些中小企業都能夠走入創新那我們也會從投資的角度給予他們一定的協助\n141587\t169393\t所以你是以投資抵減還是怎麼樣?原因是這樣我說明一下現在企業中小企業大概遇到兩種狀況第一個它處於一個成長型的產業那它靠創新維生的另外一個是它屬於成熟型產業成熟型產業它其實它如果去比成本的話會很辛苦比創新會比較有未來所以我們希望這些人都從創新的角度去發展那創新不一定是AI是各個產業都可以有創新\n170273\t188508\t那我們希望大家都走進去所以你是希望把AI引進不一定是AI只要是創新都是可行的那你能不能再具體一點因為你這樣講有一點天馬行空因為大家不知道說你怎麼樣子把創新引進到中小企業\n189188\t214373\t我舉個例子在我們彰化有一個做腳踏車過去做剎車的公司那他們現在就去研發了一個就是未來整個自行車會走到電腐車的世界他們就在設立了一個研發中心專門在研發這個部分那現在他的產品已經走已經被那個Bosch納入他的這個供應鏈裡面\n215433\t220954\t那這個就是從一個傳統的剎車的腳踏車剎車的產業走進了一個電動電腐車的這個領域裡面而且打進了全世界最大的一個這個電腐車廠家那這些都是透過從一個這個從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面那這個都是屬於我們認為他可以去發展的\n237558\t258252\t好 那我還要再請問就是我們現在碳費它徵收的標準是以大型企業為主但是我們知道未來大型企業他們是上游廠商嗎那他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈\n259713\t280997\t那所以上游的廠商如果把這些碳費的成本轉嫁給我們中小企業或是中下游的工廠的時候那這樣子勢必會影響到中小企業的生產成本我們知道目前電價的上漲已經對中小企業的成本已經增加非常多了\n281277\t296110\t那未來如果碳費的進一步的轉嫁到我們的中小企業的時候那是不是對他們的生產成本也勢必會增加也會壓縮到他們的空間那這個部分我們政府部門怎麼樣來協助他們\n298878\t320996\t我們有幾個作業現在正在進行中因為碳費的如果要實施的話他是會到2026年才會開始收所以這段時間還有一個緩衝期那我們現在呢第一個我們現在第一個是我們有在找環境部我們希望他成立一個綠色成長基金那這個綠色成長基金來協助這個企業開始進行這個減碳的工作\n324739\t343401\t那另外其實跟經濟部我們開始也進入也開始投資像Exco之類的東西去協助這些產業進行這個減碳的動作所以這些都有都是希望能夠幫助這個企業降低它的衝擊那我想要問一下我們中小企業處那你們是怎麼樣子做這個部分\n343942\t372237\t跟委員報告其實最主要就是說要輔導企業他要能夠減碳那這個部分我們其實跟一些工協會都已經有建立這樣的一個合作的網絡大家用大帶小的方式來協助一些中小企業他從整個供應鏈來做減碳能夠讓整個碳的這個成本能夠降低那當然就是還有一個是節能的部分剛剛主委講到這個部分也是我們會加大力道來推動\n373237\t392831\t那你們怎麼樣加大力度推動就是因為這些中小企業即便他們願意執行的去探盤查就是加入了這個就是因為有可能他們是對歐的貿易嘛那他們可能要有進行探盤查可是對於探排放就是的這樣\n393632\t409430\t量的計算的能力以及執行探盤查的這樣的情況的驗證那我們目前國內的驗證機關是否足夠那現在是怎麼樣的情況你是不是能跟國民報告好\n410511\t420545\t目前除了就是說有國外的驗證機構以外我們為了要補足那個量能的話我們現在大概國內有幾家法人成立的這個驗證機構大概有6、7家左右的驗證機構包括\n425131\t425451\t對,我們自己有法人可以來做輔導,對。\n451776\t465350\t那這樣子的能量是否足夠呢?你們現在目前做的就是說中小企業碳排查的比例多高?是 因為這件工作其實大概已經兩年前就已經開始在做了那所以陸陸續續其實都以這個\n470575\t495923\t從這個被歐盟規範的這個產業為優先那我們這個慢慢的就是說開始把一些國內的這個重要的這些這個製造業的聚落我們大概都都走了一遍那目前跟工協會其實都還在相關的這些碳盤炒的工作都還在進行當中所以我們希望就是說蘇歐的這個產品基本上大概都八九成應該都已經都已經完成了\n497233\t497717\t主席\n","txt":"我們其實有非常多的政策是來延攬專業的人才但是其實我們發現了中小企業現在他們的勞工都高齡化了那對於中小企業勞工高齡化問題我們國發會跟我們經濟部怎麼解決\n目前就我了解就是在勞動部有訂一個中高齡就業相關的法令然後也有給予一定的這個優惠給這些企業所以希望協助這個高齡者能夠就業原因是現在的人身體比較健康然後我們的全球在相較來講我們的這個高齡的就業勞參率也比較低所以目前的話勞動部的做法是這樣的\n那經濟部呢?跟委員報告其實我們在這個中小竊販條例裡面也有修正就是說如果要徵雇這個65歲以上的基層員工的話我們會有做一些抵檢抵檢率可以達到200以上租稅優惠嗎?對對對但是我想要了解的以年輕的勞工來講他們通常喜歡科技產業多過於中小傳產這樣子的產業\n那怎麼樣子促進就是我們就是年輕人口對於我們中小企業的創新研發能力的這個精進那才能夠讓中小企業未來因為以目前我看到國發會目前的情況你們會不會都只重視AI產業那對於中小企業的創新研究也不重視那這樣子的情況下\n如果未來我們的年輕的勞工都流向了高科技的產業那中小企業如何能夠有創新、研發的這樣一個動能呢?是不是?國科委、國發會主委\n跟委員報告關於這一點其實我們也很重視所以我們在創新創業的雨林生態系裡面我們保留的創新就是希望這些中小企業都能夠走入創新那我們也會從投資的角度給予他們一定的協助\n所以你是以投資抵減還是怎麼樣?原因是這樣我說明一下現在企業中小企業大概遇到兩種狀況第一個它處於一個成長型的產業那它靠創新維生的另外一個是它屬於成熟型產業成熟型產業它其實它如果去比成本的話會很辛苦比創新會比較有未來所以我們希望這些人都從創新的角度去發展那創新不一定是AI是各個產業都可以有創新\n那我們希望大家都走進去所以你是希望把AI引進不一定是AI只要是創新都是可行的那你能不能再具體一點因為你這樣講有一點天馬行空因為大家不知道說你怎麼樣子把創新引進到中小企業\n我舉個例子在我們彰化有一個做腳踏車過去做剎車的公司那他們現在就去研發了一個就是未來整個自行車會走到電腐車的世界他們就在設立了一個研發中心專門在研發這個部分那現在他的產品已經走已經被那個Bosch納入他的這個供應鏈裡面\n那這個就是從一個傳統的剎車的腳踏車剎車的產業走進了一個電動電腐車的這個領域裡面而且打進了全世界最大的一個這個電腐車廠家那這些都是透過從一個這個從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面那這個都是屬於我們認為他可以去發展的\n好 那我還要再請問就是我們現在碳費它徵收的標準是以大型企業為主但是我們知道未來大型企業他們是上游廠商嗎那他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈\n那所以上游的廠商如果把這些碳費的成本轉嫁給我們中小企業或是中下游的工廠的時候那這樣子勢必會影響到中小企業的生產成本我們知道目前電價的上漲已經對中小企業的成本已經增加非常多了\n那未來如果碳費的進一步的轉嫁到我們的中小企業的時候那是不是對他們的生產成本也勢必會增加也會壓縮到他們的空間那這個部分我們政府部門怎麼樣來協助他們\n我們有幾個作業現在正在進行中因為碳費的如果要實施的話他是會到2026年才會開始收所以這段時間還有一個緩衝期那我們現在呢第一個我們現在第一個是我們有在找環境部我們希望他成立一個綠色成長基金那這個綠色成長基金來協助這個企業開始進行這個減碳的工作\n那另外其實跟經濟部我們開始也進入也開始投資像Exco之類的東西去協助這些產業進行這個減碳的動作所以這些都有都是希望能夠幫助這個企業降低它的衝擊那我想要問一下我們中小企業處那你們是怎麼樣子做這個部分\n跟委員報告其實最主要就是說要輔導企業他要能夠減碳那這個部分我們其實跟一些工協會都已經有建立這樣的一個合作的網絡大家用大帶小的方式來協助一些中小企業他從整個供應鏈來做減碳能夠讓整個碳的這個成本能夠降低那當然就是還有一個是節能的部分剛剛主委講到這個部分也是我們會加大力道來推動\n那你們怎麼樣加大力度推動就是因為這些中小企業即便他們願意執行的去探盤查就是加入了這個就是因為有可能他們是對歐的貿易嘛那他們可能要有進行探盤查可是對於探排放就是的這樣\n量的計算的能力以及執行探盤查的這樣的情況的驗證那我們目前國內的驗證機關是否足夠那現在是怎麼樣的情況你是不是能跟國民報告好\n目前除了就是說有國外的驗證機構以外我們為了要補足那個量能的話我們現在大概國內有幾家法人成立的這個驗證機構大概有6、7家左右的驗證機構包括\n對,我們自己有法人可以來做輔導,對。\n那這樣子的能量是否足夠呢?你們現在目前做的就是說中小企業碳排查的比例多高?是 因為這件工作其實大概已經兩年前就已經開始在做了那所以陸陸續續其實都以這個\n從這個被歐盟規範的這個產業為優先那我們這個慢慢的就是說開始把一些國內的這個重要的這些這個製造業的聚落我們大概都都走了一遍那目前跟工協會其實都還在相關的這些碳盤炒的工作都還在進行當中所以我們希望就是說蘇歐的這個產品基本上大概都八九成應該都已經都已經完成了\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.770 --> 00:19.176\n我們其實有非常多的政策是來延攬專業的人才但是其實我們發現了中小企業現在他們的勞工都高齡化了那對於中小企業勞工高齡化問題我們國發會跟我們經濟部怎麼解決\n\n00:22.655 --> 00:49.434\n目前就我了解就是在勞動部有訂一個中高齡就業相關的法令然後也有給予一定的這個優惠給這些企業所以希望協助這個高齡者能夠就業原因是現在的人身體比較健康然後我們的全球在相較來講我們的這個高齡的就業勞參率也比較低所以目前的話勞動部的做法是這樣的\n\n00:51.656 --> 01:17.458\n那經濟部呢?跟委員報告其實我們在這個中小竊販條例裡面也有修正就是說如果要徵雇這個65歲以上的基層員工的話我們會有做一些抵檢抵檢率可以達到200以上租稅優惠嗎?對對對但是我想要了解的以年輕的勞工來講他們通常喜歡科技產業多過於中小傳產這樣子的產業\n\n01:19.420 --> 01:47.012\n那怎麼樣子促進就是我們就是年輕人口對於我們中小企業的創新研發能力的這個精進那才能夠讓中小企業未來因為以目前我看到國發會目前的情況你們會不會都只重視AI產業那對於中小企業的創新研究也不重視那這樣子的情況下\n\n01:48.132 --> 01:59.838\n如果未來我們的年輕的勞工都流向了高科技的產業那中小企業如何能夠有創新、研發的這樣一個動能呢?是不是?國科委、國發會主委\n\n02:02.144 --> 02:20.504\n跟委員報告關於這一點其實我們也很重視所以我們在創新創業的雨林生態系裡面我們保留的創新就是希望這些中小企業都能夠走入創新那我們也會從投資的角度給予他們一定的協助\n\n02:21.587 --> 02:49.393\n所以你是以投資抵減還是怎麼樣?原因是這樣我說明一下現在企業中小企業大概遇到兩種狀況第一個它處於一個成長型的產業那它靠創新維生的另外一個是它屬於成熟型產業成熟型產業它其實它如果去比成本的話會很辛苦比創新會比較有未來所以我們希望這些人都從創新的角度去發展那創新不一定是AI是各個產業都可以有創新\n\n02:50.273 --> 03:08.508\n那我們希望大家都走進去所以你是希望把AI引進不一定是AI只要是創新都是可行的那你能不能再具體一點因為你這樣講有一點天馬行空因為大家不知道說你怎麼樣子把創新引進到中小企業\n\n03:09.188 --> 03:34.373\n我舉個例子在我們彰化有一個做腳踏車過去做剎車的公司那他們現在就去研發了一個就是未來整個自行車會走到電腐車的世界他們就在設立了一個研發中心專門在研發這個部分那現在他的產品已經走已經被那個Bosch納入他的這個供應鏈裡面\n\n03:35.433 --> 03:40.954\n那這個就是從一個傳統的剎車的腳踏車剎車的產業走進了一個電動電腐車的這個領域裡面而且打進了全世界最大的一個這個電腐車廠家那這些都是透過從一個這個從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面那這個都是屬於我們認為他可以去發展的\n\n03:57.558 --> 04:18.252\n好那我還要再請問就是我們現在碳費它徵收的標準是以大型企業為主但是我們知道未來大型企業他們是上游廠商嗎那他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈\n\n04:19.713 --> 04:40.997\n那所以上游的廠商如果把這些碳費的成本轉嫁給我們中小企業或是中下游的工廠的時候那這樣子勢必會影響到中小企業的生產成本我們知道目前電價的上漲已經對中小企業的成本已經增加非常多了\n\n04:41.277 --> 04:56.110\n那未來如果碳費的進一步的轉嫁到我們的中小企業的時候那是不是對他們的生產成本也勢必會增加也會壓縮到他們的空間那這個部分我們政府部門怎麼樣來協助他們\n\n04:58.878 --> 05:20.996\n我們有幾個作業現在正在進行中因為碳費的如果要實施的話他是會到2026年才會開始收所以這段時間還有一個緩衝期那我們現在呢第一個我們現在第一個是我們有在找環境部我們希望他成立一個綠色成長基金那這個綠色成長基金來協助這個企業開始進行這個減碳的工作\n\n05:24.739 --> 05:43.401\n那另外其實跟經濟部我們開始也進入也開始投資像Exco之類的東西去協助這些產業進行這個減碳的動作所以這些都有都是希望能夠幫助這個企業降低它的衝擊那我想要問一下我們中小企業處那你們是怎麼樣子做這個部分\n\n05:43.942 --> 06:12.237\n跟委員報告其實最主要就是說要輔導企業他要能夠減碳那這個部分我們其實跟一些工協會都已經有建立這樣的一個合作的網絡大家用大帶小的方式來協助一些中小企業他從整個供應鏈來做減碳能夠讓整個碳的這個成本能夠降低那當然就是還有一個是節能的部分剛剛主委講到這個部分也是我們會加大力道來推動\n\n06:13.237 --> 06:32.831\n那你們怎麼樣加大力度推動就是因為這些中小企業即便他們願意執行的去探盤查就是加入了這個就是因為有可能他們是對歐的貿易嘛那他們可能要有進行探盤查可是對於探排放就是的這樣\n\n06:33.632 --> 06:49.430\n量的計算的能力以及執行探盤查的這樣的情況的驗證那我們目前國內的驗證機關是否足夠那現在是怎麼樣的情況你是不是能跟國民報告好\n\n06:50.511 --> 07:00.545\n目前除了就是說有國外的驗證機構以外我們為了要補足那個量能的話我們現在大概國內有幾家法人成立的這個驗證機構大概有6、7家左右的驗證機構包括\n\n07:05.131 --> 07:05.451\n對,我們自己有法人可以來做輔導,對。\n\n07:31.776 --> 07:45.350\n那這樣子的能量是否足夠呢?你們現在目前做的就是說中小企業碳排查的比例多高?是因為這件工作其實大概已經兩年前就已經開始在做了那所以陸陸續續其實都以這個\n\n07:50.575 --> 08:15.923\n從這個被歐盟規範的這個產業為優先那我們這個慢慢的就是說開始把一些國內的這個重要的這些這個製造業的聚落我們大概都都走了一遍那目前跟工協會其實都還在相關的這些碳盤炒的工作都還在進行當中所以我們希望就是說蘇歐的這個產品基本上大概都八九成應該都已經都已經完成了\n\n08:17.233 --> 08:17.717\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.77,"end":19.176,"text":"我們其實有非常多的政策是來延攬專業的人才但是其實我們發現了中小企業現在他們的勞工都高齡化了那對於中小企業勞工高齡化問題我們國發會跟我們經濟部怎麼解決"},{"start":22.655,"end":49.434,"text":"目前就我了解就是在勞動部有訂一個中高齡就業相關的法令然後也有給予一定的這個優惠給這些企業所以希望協助這個高齡者能夠就業原因是現在的人身體比較健康然後我們的全球在相較來講我們的這個高齡的就業勞參率也比較低所以目前的話勞動部的做法是這樣的"},{"start":51.656,"end":77.458,"text":"那經濟部呢?跟委員報告其實我們在這個中小竊販條例裡面也有修正就是說如果要徵雇這個65歲以上的基層員工的話我們會有做一些抵檢抵檢率可以達到200以上租稅優惠嗎?對對對但是我想要了解的以年輕的勞工來講他們通常喜歡科技產業多過於中小傳產這樣子的產業"},{"start":79.42,"end":107.012,"text":"那怎麼樣子促進就是我們就是年輕人口對於我們中小企業的創新研發能力的這個精進那才能夠讓中小企業未來因為以目前我看到國發會目前的情況你們會不會都只重視AI產業那對於中小企業的創新研究也不重視那這樣子的情況下"},{"start":108.132,"end":119.838,"text":"如果未來我們的年輕的勞工都流向了高科技的產業那中小企業如何能夠有創新、研發的這樣一個動能呢?是不是?國科委、國發會主委"},{"start":122.144,"end":140.504,"text":"跟委員報告關於這一點其實我們也很重視所以我們在創新創業的雨林生態系裡面我們保留的創新就是希望這些中小企業都能夠走入創新那我們也會從投資的角度給予他們一定的協助"},{"start":141.587,"end":169.393,"text":"所以你是以投資抵減還是怎麼樣?原因是這樣我說明一下現在企業中小企業大概遇到兩種狀況第一個它處於一個成長型的產業那它靠創新維生的另外一個是它屬於成熟型產業成熟型產業它其實它如果去比成本的話會很辛苦比創新會比較有未來所以我們希望這些人都從創新的角度去發展那創新不一定是AI是各個產業都可以有創新"},{"start":170.273,"end":188.508,"text":"那我們希望大家都走進去所以你是希望把AI引進不一定是AI只要是創新都是可行的那你能不能再具體一點因為你這樣講有一點天馬行空因為大家不知道說你怎麼樣子把創新引進到中小企業"},{"start":189.188,"end":214.373,"text":"我舉個例子在我們彰化有一個做腳踏車過去做剎車的公司那他們現在就去研發了一個就是未來整個自行車會走到電腐車的世界他們就在設立了一個研發中心專門在研發這個部分那現在他的產品已經走已經被那個Bosch納入他的這個供應鏈裡面"},{"start":215.433,"end":220.954,"text":"那這個就是從一個傳統的剎車的腳踏車剎車的產業走進了一個電動電腐車的這個領域裡面而且打進了全世界最大的一個這個電腐車廠家那這些都是透過從一個這個從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面那這個都是屬於我們認為他可以去發展的"},{"start":237.558,"end":258.252,"text":"好 那我還要再請問就是我們現在碳費它徵收的標準是以大型企業為主但是我們知道未來大型企業他們是上游廠商嗎那他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈"},{"start":259.713,"end":280.997,"text":"那所以上游的廠商如果把這些碳費的成本轉嫁給我們中小企業或是中下游的工廠的時候那這樣子勢必會影響到中小企業的生產成本我們知道目前電價的上漲已經對中小企業的成本已經增加非常多了"},{"start":281.277,"end":296.11,"text":"那未來如果碳費的進一步的轉嫁到我們的中小企業的時候那是不是對他們的生產成本也勢必會增加也會壓縮到他們的空間那這個部分我們政府部門怎麼樣來協助他們"},{"start":298.878,"end":320.996,"text":"我們有幾個作業現在正在進行中因為碳費的如果要實施的話他是會到2026年才會開始收所以這段時間還有一個緩衝期那我們現在呢第一個我們現在第一個是我們有在找環境部我們希望他成立一個綠色成長基金那這個綠色成長基金來協助這個企業開始進行這個減碳的工作"},{"start":324.739,"end":343.401,"text":"那另外其實跟經濟部我們開始也進入也開始投資像Exco之類的東西去協助這些產業進行這個減碳的動作所以這些都有都是希望能夠幫助這個企業降低它的衝擊那我想要問一下我們中小企業處那你們是怎麼樣子做這個部分"},{"start":343.942,"end":372.237,"text":"跟委員報告其實最主要就是說要輔導企業他要能夠減碳那這個部分我們其實跟一些工協會都已經有建立這樣的一個合作的網絡大家用大帶小的方式來協助一些中小企業他從整個供應鏈來做減碳能夠讓整個碳的這個成本能夠降低那當然就是還有一個是節能的部分剛剛主委講到這個部分也是我們會加大力道來推動"},{"start":373.237,"end":392.831,"text":"那你們怎麼樣加大力度推動就是因為這些中小企業即便他們願意執行的去探盤查就是加入了這個就是因為有可能他們是對歐的貿易嘛那他們可能要有進行探盤查可是對於探排放就是的這樣"},{"start":393.632,"end":409.43,"text":"量的計算的能力以及執行探盤查的這樣的情況的驗證那我們目前國內的驗證機關是否足夠那現在是怎麼樣的情況你是不是能跟國民報告好"},{"start":410.511,"end":420.545,"text":"目前除了就是說有國外的驗證機構以外我們為了要補足那個量能的話我們現在大概國內有幾家法人成立的這個驗證機構大概有6、7家左右的驗證機構包括"},{"start":425.131,"end":425.451,"text":"對,我們自己有法人可以來做輔導,對。"},{"start":451.776,"end":465.35,"text":"那這樣子的能量是否足夠呢?你們現在目前做的就是說中小企業碳排查的比例多高?是 因為這件工作其實大概已經兩年前就已經開始在做了那所以陸陸續續其實都以這個"},{"start":470.575,"end":495.923,"text":"從這個被歐盟規範的這個產業為優先那我們這個慢慢的就是說開始把一些國內的這個重要的這些這個製造業的聚落我們大概都都走了一遍那目前跟工協會其實都還在相關的這些碳盤炒的工作都還在進行當中所以我們希望就是說蘇歐的這個產品基本上大概都八九成應該都已經都已經完成了"},{"start":497.233,"end":497.717,"text":"主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:38:14 - 11:46:35","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155164,"gazette":{"lineno":628,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時38分）謝謝召委，我想要請劉主委跟何次長。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想請教一下，我們其實有非常多的政策是來延攬專業的人才，但是我們發現中小企業現在的勞工都高齡化了，對於中小企業勞工高齡化問題，國發會跟經濟部怎麼解決？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前就我瞭解，在勞動部有訂一個中高齡就業相關的法令，然後也有一定的優惠給予這些企業，希望協助高齡者能夠就業，原因是現在的人身體比較健康，相較於全球來講，我們的高齡就業勞參率也比較低，所以目前勞動部的作法是這樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那經濟部呢？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實我們在中小企業發展條例裡面也有修正，如果要增僱65歲以上的基層員工，我們會做一些抵減，抵減率可以達到200%以上。"],["謝委員衣鳯：租稅優惠嘛！"],["何次長晉滄：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是我想要瞭解的是，以年輕的勞工來講，他們通常喜歡科技產業多過於中小傳產產業，那怎麼樣促進年輕人口對於中小企業創新研發能力的精進，才能夠讓中小企業未來……因為我看到國發會目前的情況你們會不會都只重視AI產業？對於中小企業的創新研究也不重視，這樣子的情況下，如果未來我們的年輕勞工都流向高科技產業，那中小企業如何能夠有創新研發的動能呢？是不是，國發會主委？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，關於這一點，其實我們也很重視，所以我們在創新創業雨林生態系裡面保留了創新，就是希望這些中小企業都能夠走入創新，我們也會從投資的角度給予他們一定的協助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你是以投資抵減，還是怎麼樣？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：原因是這樣，我說明一下，現在中小企業大概遇到兩種狀況，第一個，它處於一個成長型的產業，它靠創新為生的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：另外一個是它屬於成熟型產業，成熟型產業如果去比成本的話會很辛苦，比創新會比較有未來，所以我們希望這些人都從創新的角度去發展。創新不一定是AI，是各個產業都可以有創新，我們希望大家都走進去創新的領域。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你是希望把AI引進？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不一定是AI。"],["謝委員衣鳯：或者是把創新引進？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：只要是創新都是可行的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你能不能再具體一點？你這樣講有一點天馬行空，因為大家不知道你怎麼樣把創新引進到中小企業。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我舉個例子，在我們彰化有一個過去做腳踏車煞車的公司，由於未來整個自行車會走入到電輔車的世界，因此他們就設立了一個研發中心，專門在研發這個部分，現在它的產品已經被德國的Bosch納入它的供應鏈裡面，這個就是從一個傳統的腳踏車煞車產業走進一個電輔車的領域裡面，而且打進了全世界最大的電輔車廠家，這些都是從最傳統的工業走進一個智慧的工業裡面，這個都是屬於我們認為它可以去發展的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我還要再請問，現在碳費徵收的標準是以大型企業為主，但是我們知道大型企業是上游廠商，未來他們可能會把他們的成本轉嫁給中小企業，尤其是中下游的產業供應鏈，所以上游廠商如果把這些碳費成本轉嫁給中小企業或者是中下游工廠的時候，這樣子勢必會影響到中小企業的生產成本。我們知道目前電價上漲已經對中小企業的成本增加非常多，未來如果碳費進一步轉嫁到中小企業的時候，是不是對他們的生產成本勢必會增加？也會壓縮到他們的空間？針對這個部分，我們政府部門怎麼樣來協助他們？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們有幾個作業現在正在進行中，因為碳費如果要實施的話，它是到2026年才會開始收，所以這段時間還有一個緩衝期。第一個，我們現在有在找環境部，希望它成立一個綠色成長基金，由綠色成長基金來協助企業開始進行減碳的工作。另外，我們跟經濟部也開始投資像ESCO之類的東西，去協助這些產業進行減碳的動作，所以這些都是希望能夠幫助企業降低它的衝擊。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想要問一下中小企業處，你們是怎麼樣子做這個部分的？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實最主要就是要輔導企業能夠減碳，這個部分我們其實跟一些公協會都已經有建立這樣的一個合作網絡，用大帶小的方式來協助一些中小企業從整個供應鏈進行減碳，能夠讓整個碳的成本降低。另外還有一個就是節能的部分，剛剛主委有講到，這個部分也是我們會加大力道來推動的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們怎麼樣子加大力道推動？這些中小企業即便他們願意自行進行碳盤查，因為有可能他們是對歐的貿易，所以他們可能要進行碳盤查，可是對於碳排放量的計算能力以及執行碳盤查的驗證，目前我們國內的驗證機關是否足夠？現在是怎麼樣的情況？你是不是能跟國民報告？"],["何次長晉滄：好。目前除了有國外的驗證機構以外，我們為了要補足量能，國內現在有幾家法人成立的驗證機構，大概有六、七家左右的驗證機構，包括我們的金工中心，還有大電力公司等等，這些都可以幫忙驗證，我們其實還有一些輔導團，如果中小企業需要我們服務的話，經濟部這邊有窗口。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以除了7家歐系驗證公司之外，我們還有自己的法人驗證機構？"],["何次長晉滄：對，我們自己有法人可以輔導。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這樣子的能量是否足夠呢？你們現在目前做的中小企業碳盤查比率多高？"],["何次長晉滄：這些工作大概兩年前就已經開始在做了，所以陸陸續續先從被歐盟規範的產業為優先，我們慢慢開始把一些國內重要的製造業聚落大概都走了一遍，目前跟公協會針對相關的碳盤查工作都還在進行當中，輸歐的產品基本上八、九成大概都已經完成了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝謝衣鳯委員精準的質詢，請回座。因為時間也快到12點，主席在這邊宣布，上午質詢到吳春城，吳春城之後就休息，下午兩點半繼續開會。"],["主席（謝委員衣鳯代）：現在請邱志偉召委詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}}