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{\"word\": \"座\", \"start\": 279.937, \"end\": 279.957, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,212 --> 00:00:05,898\n教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席\n\n2\n00:00:15,922 --> 00:00:28,507\n委員好部長好部長我想大家今天非常關心我們老舊校舍的整建補助這個部分那我想幾個細節先跟部長來確認一下這個目前為止老舊校舍31年到49年的校舍的棟數有8324棟50年以上的還有2226棟這個數據差不多是這樣嗎是嗎\n\n3\n00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:47,820\n好部長謝謝那既然書記長表示50年以上經過這麼多年來從馬英九政府、蔡英文政府到現在賴清德政府都還有當然滾動市場每年每年成長現在還有2226棟的這個50年以上校舍要是屬於50年以上的那當然\n\n4\n00:00:53,686 --> 00:01:21,304\n五十年以上按照一般社會的邏輯都希望說能夠重新的改建能夠重新的來處理這是我們的認知當然我們先提到說按照現在老舊校舍整建補助的審查原則你們有一個部內有一個這樣的原則一般地區每平方公尺兩萬六千元也就是一坪大概是八萬八點六萬元左右一坪左右一坪八點六萬那部長你知道如果現在蓋房子一坪的造價大概多少嗎\n\n5\n00:01:22,281 --> 00:01:24,522\n二、邀請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n6\n00:01:45,054 --> 00:02:05,852\n這個補助原則這個是103年訂定、108年修正到現在過了這麼多年如果補助原則現在還是一坪8.6萬舊老舊校舍的整建言下之意你等於說你要蓋新的校舍是不可能的因為新的校舍以現在的造價標準就會來到20萬以上這個不是蓋豪宅就是一般的標準所以你不就等於說讓這些老舊校舍\n\n7\n00:02:06,212 --> 00:02:12,916\n請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n8\n00:02:27,749 --> 00:02:28,930\n教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席\n\n9\n00:02:46,580 --> 00:02:53,903\n有些校園有歷史的建築當然不能隨便就拆嘛當然要大家有一個共同的決議但是部長我想問一下既然您這樣提那您能夠保證這所謂的至少這50年以上2000多棟它目前都沒有危險嗎\n\n10\n00:03:09,349 --> 00:03:11,069\n請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n11\n00:03:32,834 --> 00:03:58,811\n在111年之前我們事實上是有整體的一個普查而且也做了一些老舊有安全疑慮的該防證補強或是該拆除的我們確實做了一個徹底的從98年到111年總共改善了這個數字我有你們有發過新聞稿我知道所以就是說現有的2000多棟對教育部來講已經都做過普查沒有這個耐震問題了以目前來講是沒有這樣的一個問題但是如果委員有\n\n12\n00:04:01,292 --> 00:04:24,369\n具體的一些我想我們願意立即來做一些改善好那第一個我是希望這個平均造價應該要去依據現價依據現狀去調整不能再用108年的這個金額來面對明年開始的這個相關預算那第二個我知道你們有說說所謂的350億的改建的這個預算350億的目前在停在哪是停在行政院還是停在什麼地方這個你們會不會爭取\n\n13\n00:04:25,850 --> 00:04:39,957\n謝謝委員﹖因為可能委員的一些﹖手邊的一些資料說﹖也許我們還有一些11年以後的更新的我想事後我們再提供給委員參考好,部長謝謝好,謝謝黃強豪委員﹖那請部長先回座\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4212\t5898\t教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席\n15922\t28507\t委員好部長好部長我想大家今天非常關心我們老舊校舍的整建補助這個部分那我想幾個細節先跟部長來確認一下這個目前為止老舊校舍31年到49年的校舍的棟數有8324棟50年以上的還有2226棟這個數據差不多是這樣嗎是嗎\n37890\t47820\t好部長謝謝那既然書記長表示50年以上經過這麼多年來從馬英九政府、蔡英文政府到現在賴清德政府都還有當然滾動市場每年每年成長現在還有2226棟的這個50年以上校舍要是屬於50年以上的那當然\n53686\t81304\t五十年以上按照一般社會的邏輯都希望說能夠重新的改建能夠重新的來處理這是我們的認知當然我們先提到說按照現在老舊校舍整建補助的審查原則你們有一個部內有一個這樣的原則一般地區每平方公尺兩萬六千元也就是一坪大概是八萬八點六萬元左右一坪左右一坪八點六萬那部長你知道如果現在蓋房子一坪的造價大概多少嗎\n82281\t84522\t二、邀請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n105054\t125852\t這個補助原則這個是103年訂定、108年修正到現在過了這麼多年如果補助原則現在還是一坪8.6萬舊老舊校舍的整建言下之意你等於說你要蓋新的校舍是不可能的因為新的校舍以現在的造價標準就會來到20萬以上這個不是蓋豪宅就是一般的標準所以你不就等於說讓這些老舊校舍\n126212\t132916\t請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n147749\t148930\t教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席\n166580\t173903\t有些校園有歷史的建築當然不能隨便就拆嘛當然要大家有一個共同的決議但是部長我想問一下既然您這樣提那您能夠保證這所謂的至少這50年以上2000多棟它目前都沒有危險嗎\n189349\t191069\t請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n212834\t238811\t在111年之前我們事實上是有整體的一個普查而且也做了一些老舊有安全疑慮的該防證補強或是該拆除的我們確實做了一個徹底的從98年到111年總共改善了這個數字我有你們有發過新聞稿我知道所以就是說現有的2000多棟對教育部來講已經都做過普查沒有這個耐震問題了以目前來講是沒有這樣的一個問題但是如果委員有\n241292\t264369\t具體的一些我想我們願意立即來做一些改善好那第一個我是希望這個平均造價應該要去依據現價依據現狀去調整不能再用108年的這個金額來面對明年開始的這個相關預算那第二個我知道你們有說說所謂的350億的改建的這個預算350億的目前在停在哪是停在行政院還是停在什麼地方這個你們會不會爭取\n265850\t279957\t謝謝委員﹖因為可能委員的一些﹖手邊的一些資料說﹖也許我們還有一些11年以後的更新的我想事後我們再提供給委員參考好,部長謝謝好,謝謝黃強豪委員﹖那請部長先回座\n","txt":"教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席\n委員好部長好部長我想大家今天非常關心我們老舊校舍的整建補助這個部分那我想幾個細節先跟部長來確認一下這個目前為止老舊校舍31年到49年的校舍的棟數有8324棟50年以上的還有2226棟這個數據差不多是這樣嗎是嗎\n好部長謝謝那既然書記長表示50年以上經過這麼多年來從馬英九政府、蔡英文政府到現在賴清德政府都還有當然滾動市場每年每年成長現在還有2226棟的這個50年以上校舍要是屬於50年以上的那當然\n五十年以上按照一般社會的邏輯都希望說能夠重新的改建能夠重新的來處理這是我們的認知當然我們先提到說按照現在老舊校舍整建補助的審查原則你們有一個部內有一個這樣的原則一般地區每平方公尺兩萬六千元也就是一坪大概是八萬八點六萬元左右一坪左右一坪八點六萬那部長你知道如果現在蓋房子一坪的造價大概多少嗎\n二、邀請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n這個補助原則這個是103年訂定、108年修正到現在過了這麼多年如果補助原則現在還是一坪8.6萬舊老舊校舍的整建言下之意你等於說你要蓋新的校舍是不可能的因為新的校舍以現在的造價標準就會來到20萬以上這個不是蓋豪宅就是一般的標準所以你不就等於說讓這些老舊校舍\n請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席\n有些校園有歷史的建築當然不能隨便就拆嘛當然要大家有一個共同的決議但是部長我想問一下既然您這樣提那您能夠保證這所謂的至少這50年以上2000多棟它目前都沒有危險嗎\n請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n在111年之前我們事實上是有整體的一個普查而且也做了一些老舊有安全疑慮的該防證補強或是該拆除的我們確實做了一個徹底的從98年到111年總共改善了這個數字我有你們有發過新聞稿我知道所以就是說現有的2000多棟對教育部來講已經都做過普查沒有這個耐震問題了以目前來講是沒有這樣的一個問題但是如果委員有\n具體的一些我想我們願意立即來做一些改善好那第一個我是希望這個平均造價應該要去依據現價依據現狀去調整不能再用108年的這個金額來面對明年開始的這個相關預算那第二個我知道你們有說說所謂的350億的改建的這個預算350億的目前在停在哪是停在行政院還是停在什麼地方這個你們會不會爭取\n謝謝委員﹖因為可能委員的一些﹖手邊的一些資料說﹖也許我們還有一些11年以後的更新的我想事後我們再提供給委員參考好,部長謝謝好,謝謝黃強豪委員﹖那請部長先回座\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.212 --> 00:05.898\n教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席\n\n00:15.922 --> 00:28.507\n委員好部長好部長我想大家今天非常關心我們老舊校舍的整建補助這個部分那我想幾個細節先跟部長來確認一下這個目前為止老舊校舍31年到49年的校舍的棟數有8324棟50年以上的還有2226棟這個數據差不多是這樣嗎是嗎\n\n00:37.890 --> 00:47.820\n好部長謝謝那既然書記長表示50年以上經過這麼多年來從馬英九政府、蔡英文政府到現在賴清德政府都還有當然滾動市場每年每年成長現在還有2226棟的這個50年以上校舍要是屬於50年以上的那當然\n\n00:53.686 --> 01:21.304\n五十年以上按照一般社會的邏輯都希望說能夠重新的改建能夠重新的來處理這是我們的認知當然我們先提到說按照現在老舊校舍整建補助的審查原則你們有一個部內有一個這樣的原則一般地區每平方公尺兩萬六千元也就是一坪大概是八萬八點六萬元左右一坪左右一坪八點六萬那部長你知道如果現在蓋房子一坪的造價大概多少嗎\n\n01:22.281 --> 01:24.522\n二、邀請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n01:45.054 --> 02:05.852\n這個補助原則這個是103年訂定、108年修正到現在過了這麼多年如果補助原則現在還是一坪8.6萬舊老舊校舍的整建言下之意你等於說你要蓋新的校舍是不可能的因為新的校舍以現在的造價標準就會來到20萬以上這個不是蓋豪宅就是一般的標準所以你不就等於說讓這些老舊校舍\n\n02:06.212 --> 02:12.916\n請教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n02:27.749 --> 02:28.930\n教育部長鄭英耀及農業部長陳駿季列席\n\n02:46.580 --> 02:53.903\n有些校園有歷史的建築當然不能隨便就拆嘛當然要大家有一個共同的決議但是部長我想問一下既然您這樣提那您能夠保證這所謂的至少這50年以上2000多棟它目前都沒有危險嗎\n\n03:09.349 --> 03:11.069\n請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長鄭英耀及農業部長\n\n03:32.834 --> 03:58.811\n在111年之前我們事實上是有整體的一個普查而且也做了一些老舊有安全疑慮的該防證補強或是該拆除的我們確實做了一個徹底的從98年到111年總共改善了這個數字我有你們有發過新聞稿我知道所以就是說現有的2000多棟對教育部來講已經都做過普查沒有這個耐震問題了以目前來講是沒有這樣的一個問題但是如果委員有\n\n04:01.292 --> 04:24.369\n具體的一些我想我們願意立即來做一些改善好那第一個我是希望這個平均造價應該要去依據現價依據現狀去調整不能再用108年的這個金額來面對明年開始的這個相關預算那第二個我知道你們有說說所謂的350億的改建的這個預算350億的目前在停在哪是停在行政院還是停在什麼地方這個你們會不會爭取\n\n04:25.850 --> 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13:46:54","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國土管理署派員列席備詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155223,"gazette":{"lineno":1002,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（13時42分）謝謝主席，我們先請教育部鄭部長。"],["主席：我們有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。部長，大家今天都非常關心我們老舊校舍整建補助這個部分，幾個細節我想先跟部長來確認一下，目前為止，老舊校舍31年到49年的校舍棟數有8,324棟；50年以上的還有2,226棟，數據差不多是這樣，是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝部長。既然數據上表示50年以上的部分，經過這麼多年來，從馬英九政府、蔡英文政府到現在賴清德政府，當然都還有在滾動式的處理，而且是每年、每年的成長，但現在還有2,226棟屬於50年以上的校舍，當然50年以上的，按照一般社會的邏輯，都希望能夠重新的改建、能夠重新來處理，這是我們的認知。按照現在的老舊校舍整建補助審查原則，你們部內有這樣一個原則，一般地區每平方公尺是2萬6,000元，也就是一坪大概是8.6萬元左右，部長你知道如果現在要蓋房子，一坪的造價大概是多少嗎？毛胚屋就好，不是豪宅，一般的。"],["鄭部長英耀：一般的大概、可能、差不多要十來萬。"],["黃委員健豪：我跟部長報告，這個也可以去問內政部，我們臺灣現在蓋這麼多社宅，政府興辦的這些社宅，一坪平均造價就是20萬以上，20萬出頭不到30萬。這個補助原則是103年訂定、108年修正的，到現在過了這麼多年，如果補助原則現在還是以一坪8.6萬來做老舊校舍的整建，言下之意，等於你要蓋新的校舍是不可能的，因為新的校舍依照現在的造價標準就會來到20萬以上，這個不是在蓋豪宅而是一般的標準，所以不就等於這些老舊校舍原則上它只能整建，沒有辦法去重新蓋新的，因為還有涉及拆除，拆除也是一筆經費，拆除完之後，蓋新的又是一筆經費。如果按照你們現在訂定的標準，只有以2萬6,000元為原則的話，是不是表示這二千多棟老舊校舍要改建基本上是遙遙無期？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，老舊教室它不必然是有安全的疑慮，所以從學校、校友共同的記憶上，跟學校許多歷史上的一些保留，我想這也是……"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係，部長，當然有些校園有歷史……"],["鄭部長英耀：單價部分我們會以實際性來做檢討。"],["黃委員健豪：好，有些校園有歷史，我當然也認同，有些校園有歷史的建築，當然不能隨便就拆，當然要經大家共同的決議。但是部長我想問一下，既然你這樣提，你能夠保證這所謂二千多棟至少50年以上的校舍目前都沒有危險嗎？耐震的問題都解決了嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們事實上有做全面的一些評估，然後由專家來幫我們做一些安全上的審核。"],["黃委員健豪：我先不針對31年到49年的那段，光是50年以上這二千多棟，我想問一下，所以教育部現在是說這二千多棟目前為止都沒有安全疑慮，是這樣嗎？到目前為止解決了嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：在111年之前，我們事實上是有做整體的一個普查，而且也針對一些老舊的、有安全疑慮的、該防震補強或者該拆除的，確實做了一個澈底的處理，從98年到111年，總共改善了……"],["黃委員健豪：這個數字我有，你們有發過新聞稿，我知道。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["黃委員健豪：所以現有的二千多棟，對教育部來講，已經都做過普查，沒有耐震問題了？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前來講，是沒有這樣一個問題，但是如果委員有具體的一些案例，我們願意立即來做一些改善。"],["黃委員健豪：好，第一個，我希望這個平均造價，應該要依據現價、依據現狀去調整，不能再用108年的金額來面對明年開始的相關預算；第二個，我知道你們有一個所謂350億的改建預算，這350億的目前是停在哪裡？是停在行政院，還是停在什麼地方？這個你們會不會去爭取？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員，可能委員手邊的一些資料是這樣，也許我們還有一些111年以後更新的，事後我們會再提供給委員參考。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員，請部長先回座。","接下來我們有請李柏毅委員、李柏毅委員，李柏毅委員，不在。","我們有請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葉元之","范雲","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","林宜瑾","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","張嘉郡","洪申翰","張雅琳","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","林月琴","吳春城","黃健豪","黃國昌","牛煦庭","徐富癸","羅智強","吳沛憶","高金素梅","李彥秀"],"page_start":295,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀及農業部部長陳駿季列席就「班班有鮮奶整備及執行情形」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢；二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、行政院主計總處、國家發展委員會列席就「中小\n學老舊校舍補強、整建計畫執行成效及未來規劃方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另請內政部國\n土管理署派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00016"}}}