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00:00:49,700\n委員會主委好時間的關係我們就流暢一點進行我們國發會大概在2018年的時候30億成立綠能國家隊投資了聯合再生接下來發生一堆問題當初國發基金是說公股的董事會積極的監督積極的監督我們來看一下第一個從我們的國發基金投資了以後又虧損了上百億\n\n3\n00:00:51,001 --> 00:01:16,835\n當初就有人立法委員質疑這是紓困基金還是國發基金那除了這個投資的效能非常慘不忍睹之外讓我們更痛心的事情是我們的經濟部工業局把地給了聯合再生結果他竟然違約去套利2.63億元當初的這個交易我們來看一下\n\n4\n00:01:18,467 --> 00:01:44,845\n出售的金額高達4.26億為什麼沒有提起董事會討論?國發基金派列的董事在幹嘛?委員據我了解我們有董事會有在董事會上提出意見但是呢因為我們只有一票那我現在的做法跟您報告一下我們已經進行退場機制8月27號開始啟動那原因很簡單我們希望投資的公司公司治理要變好\n\n5\n00:01:45,746 --> 00:02:03,527\n那我們現在最大的問題是一席董事跟3點多個%的股份如果我先插一下我們在公司法上面我們有一定的難度那個主委我插一個問題那個請主委是不是可以請國發基金的同仁會或提供我資料是的我們國發基金你說只有6%多嘛對但\n\n6\n00:02:04,088 --> 00:02:17,203\n你把十大股東攤開來看第一名是國發基金第二名耀華玻璃第三名到第十名加起來差不多跟國發基金第一名的持股數字一樣在這種股權結構之下我要請國發基金會後提供的資料是為什麼\n\n7\n00:02:24,531 --> 00:02:47,266\n我們是第一大股東在股東會的時候我們的表決股權是怎麼行使的竟然只選了一席董事您懂我的意思嗎?我懂你的意思後面有很多連一趴都沒有的都可以當選董事我們是第一大股東竟然只有一席董事我們是把表決權數的股數去支持其他人嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:48,365 --> 00:03:07,572\n是嗎?所以委員歷次的你的提醒我都有關注到所以我們才會進行退場機制這兩回事啦現在要退場那我們就密切的關注他退場的機制吧第二個在還沒有退場以前我們國家的權益要捍衛啊要主張啊這家公司的公司治理有嚴重的問題吧\n\n9\n00:03:08,872 --> 00:03:32,045\n所以主委才決定要退場所以因為我也找過律師討論過依照公司法我們能第一個依照公司治理我們只能在董事會發布發表事意見我們無法去指揮對阿但是我現在要跟主委等一下等一下先停一下我跟主委交換的意見是阿我們派去的董事阿發表過幾次意見阿然後被人家無視\n\n10\n00:03:33,146 --> 00:03:58,416\n這個今天時間的關係我跟您報告不是無事喔我們曾經被那家公司要求更換董事我們的董事太討厭了這個請會後是不是可以再麻煩請我們國發基金新的執行長來說明可以可以可以嗎可以那最後一個就是說我當初去年所指責的事項連我的監察院都印證說這是真的\n\n11\n00:04:00,776 --> 00:04:21,949\n亂搞亂搞這已經有違契約的規定有違契約的規定的話我們在退場以前國發經濟的董事是不是要在裡面主張該做什麼樣的事情這個是監察院的修正報告是的這個不是我說的而已我去年記者會開的內容我們的監察院印證百分之一百全部都是真的\n\n12\n00:04:22,549 --> 00:04:28,597\n我們的國發基金在退場以前,我們派練的董事該做一些什麼事情,請主委會後書面跟我說明可以嗎?\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9833\t10718\t可以謝謝嗎?有請主委運國二、劉主委\n20478\t49700\t委員會主委好時間的關係我們就流暢一點進行我們國發會大概在2018年的時候30億成立綠能國家隊投資了聯合再生接下來發生一堆問題當初國發基金是說公股的董事會積極的監督積極的監督我們來看一下第一個從我們的國發基金投資了以後又虧損了上百億\n51001\t76835\t當初就有人立法委員質疑這是紓困基金還是國發基金那除了這個投資的效能非常慘不忍睹之外讓我們更痛心的事情是我們的經濟部工業局把地給了聯合再生結果他竟然違約去套利2.63億元當初的這個交易我們來看一下\n78467\t104845\t出售的金額高達4.26億為什麼沒有提起董事會討論?國發基金派列的董事在幹嘛?委員據我了解我們有董事會有在董事會上提出意見但是呢因為我們只有一票那我現在的做法跟您報告一下我們已經進行退場機制8月27號開始啟動那原因很簡單我們希望投資的公司公司治理要變好\n105746\t123527\t那我們現在最大的問題是一席董事跟3點多個%的股份如果我先插一下我們在公司法上面我們有一定的難度那個主委我插一個問題那個請主委是不是可以請國發基金的同仁會或提供我資料是的我們國發基金你說只有6%多嘛對但\n124088\t137203\t你把十大股東攤開來看第一名是國發基金第二名耀華玻璃第三名到第十名加起來差不多跟國發基金第一名的持股數字一樣在這種股權結構之下我要請國發基金會後提供的資料是為什麼\n144531\t167266\t我們是第一大股東在股東會的時候我們的表決股權是怎麼行使的竟然只選了一席董事您懂我的意思嗎?我懂你的意思後面有很多連一趴都沒有的都可以當選董事我們是第一大股東竟然只有一席董事我們是把表決權數的股數去支持其他人嗎?\n168365\t187572\t是嗎?所以委員歷次的你的提醒我都有關注到所以我們才會進行退場機制這兩回事啦現在要退場那我們就密切的關注他退場的機制吧第二個在還沒有退場以前我們國家的權益要捍衛啊要主張啊這家公司的公司治理有嚴重的問題吧\n188872\t212045\t所以主委才決定要退場所以因為我也找過律師討論過依照公司法我們能第一個依照公司治理我們只能在董事會發布發表事意見我們無法去指揮對阿但是我現在要跟主委等一下等一下先停一下我跟主委交換的意見是阿我們派去的董事阿發表過幾次意見阿然後被人家無視\n213146\t238416\t這個今天時間的關係我跟您報告不是無事喔我們曾經被那家公司要求更換董事我們的董事太討厭了這個請會後是不是可以再麻煩請我們國發基金新的執行長來說明可以可以可以嗎可以那最後一個就是說我當初去年所指責的事項連我的監察院都印證說這是真的\n240776\t261949\t亂搞亂搞這已經有違契約的規定有違契約的規定的話我們在退場以前國發經濟的董事是不是要在裡面主張該做什麼樣的事情這個是監察院的修正報告是的這個不是我說的而已我去年記者會開的內容我們的監察院印證百分之一百全部都是真的\n262549\t268597\t我們的國發基金在退場以前,我們派練的董事該做一些什麼事情,請主委會後書面跟我說明可以嗎?\n","txt":"可以謝謝嗎?有請主委運國二、劉主委\n委員會主委好時間的關係我們就流暢一點進行我們國發會大概在2018年的時候30億成立綠能國家隊投資了聯合再生接下來發生一堆問題當初國發基金是說公股的董事會積極的監督積極的監督我們來看一下第一個從我們的國發基金投資了以後又虧損了上百億\n當初就有人立法委員質疑這是紓困基金還是國發基金那除了這個投資的效能非常慘不忍睹之外讓我們更痛心的事情是我們的經濟部工業局把地給了聯合再生結果他竟然違約去套利2.63億元當初的這個交易我們來看一下\n出售的金額高達4.26億為什麼沒有提起董事會討論?國發基金派列的董事在幹嘛?委員據我了解我們有董事會有在董事會上提出意見但是呢因為我們只有一票那我現在的做法跟您報告一下我們已經進行退場機制8月27號開始啟動那原因很簡單我們希望投資的公司公司治理要變好\n那我們現在最大的問題是一席董事跟3點多個%的股份如果我先插一下我們在公司法上面我們有一定的難度那個主委我插一個問題那個請主委是不是可以請國發基金的同仁會或提供我資料是的我們國發基金你說只有6%多嘛對但\n你把十大股東攤開來看第一名是國發基金第二名耀華玻璃第三名到第十名加起來差不多跟國發基金第一名的持股數字一樣在這種股權結構之下我要請國發基金會後提供的資料是為什麼\n我們是第一大股東在股東會的時候我們的表決股權是怎麼行使的竟然只選了一席董事您懂我的意思嗎?我懂你的意思後面有很多連一趴都沒有的都可以當選董事我們是第一大股東竟然只有一席董事我們是把表決權數的股數去支持其他人嗎?\n是嗎?所以委員歷次的你的提醒我都有關注到所以我們才會進行退場機制這兩回事啦現在要退場那我們就密切的關注他退場的機制吧第二個在還沒有退場以前我們國家的權益要捍衛啊要主張啊這家公司的公司治理有嚴重的問題吧\n所以主委才決定要退場所以因為我也找過律師討論過依照公司法我們能第一個依照公司治理我們只能在董事會發布發表事意見我們無法去指揮對阿但是我現在要跟主委等一下等一下先停一下我跟主委交換的意見是阿我們派去的董事阿發表過幾次意見阿然後被人家無視\n這個今天時間的關係我跟您報告不是無事喔我們曾經被那家公司要求更換董事我們的董事太討厭了這個請會後是不是可以再麻煩請我們國發基金新的執行長來說明可以可以可以嗎可以那最後一個就是說我當初去年所指責的事項連我的監察院都印證說這是真的\n亂搞亂搞這已經有違契約的規定有違契約的規定的話我們在退場以前國發經濟的董事是不是要在裡面主張該做什麼樣的事情這個是監察院的修正報告是的這個不是我說的而已我去年記者會開的內容我們的監察院印證百分之一百全部都是真的\n我們的國發基金在退場以前,我們派練的董事該做一些什麼事情,請主委會後書面跟我說明可以嗎?\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.833 --> 00:10.718\n可以謝謝嗎?有請主委運國二、劉主委\n\n00:20.478 --> 00:49.700\n委員會主委好時間的關係我們就流暢一點進行我們國發會大概在2018年的時候30億成立綠能國家隊投資了聯合再生接下來發生一堆問題當初國發基金是說公股的董事會積極的監督積極的監督我們來看一下第一個從我們的國發基金投資了以後又虧損了上百億\n\n00:51.001 --> 01:16.835\n當初就有人立法委員質疑這是紓困基金還是國發基金那除了這個投資的效能非常慘不忍睹之外讓我們更痛心的事情是我們的經濟部工業局把地給了聯合再生結果他竟然違約去套利2.63億元當初的這個交易我們來看一下\n\n01:18.467 --> 01:44.845\n出售的金額高達4.26億為什麼沒有提起董事會討論?國發基金派列的董事在幹嘛?委員據我了解我們有董事會有在董事會上提出意見但是呢因為我們只有一票那我現在的做法跟您報告一下我們已經進行退場機制8月27號開始啟動那原因很簡單我們希望投資的公司公司治理要變好\n\n01:45.746 --> 02:03.527\n那我們現在最大的問題是一席董事跟3點多個%的股份如果我先插一下我們在公司法上面我們有一定的難度那個主委我插一個問題那個請主委是不是可以請國發基金的同仁會或提供我資料是的我們國發基金你說只有6%多嘛對但\n\n02:04.088 --> 02:17.203\n你把十大股東攤開來看第一名是國發基金第二名耀華玻璃第三名到第十名加起來差不多跟國發基金第一名的持股數字一樣在這種股權結構之下我要請國發基金會後提供的資料是為什麼\n\n02:24.531 --> 02:47.266\n我們是第一大股東在股東會的時候我們的表決股權是怎麼行使的竟然只選了一席董事您懂我的意思嗎?我懂你的意思後面有很多連一趴都沒有的都可以當選董事我們是第一大股東竟然只有一席董事我們是把表決權數的股數去支持其他人嗎?\n\n02:48.365 --> 03:07.572\n是嗎?所以委員歷次的你的提醒我都有關注到所以我們才會進行退場機制這兩回事啦現在要退場那我們就密切的關注他退場的機制吧第二個在還沒有退場以前我們國家的權益要捍衛啊要主張啊這家公司的公司治理有嚴重的問題吧\n\n03:08.872 --> 03:32.045\n所以主委才決定要退場所以因為我也找過律師討論過依照公司法我們能第一個依照公司治理我們只能在董事會發布發表事意見我們無法去指揮對阿但是我現在要跟主委等一下等一下先停一下我跟主委交換的意見是阿我們派去的董事阿發表過幾次意見阿然後被人家無視\n\n03:33.146 --> 03:58.416\n這個今天時間的關係我跟您報告不是無事喔我們曾經被那家公司要求更換董事我們的董事太討厭了這個請會後是不是可以再麻煩請我們國發基金新的執行長來說明可以可以可以嗎可以那最後一個就是說我當初去年所指責的事項連我的監察院都印證說這是真的\n\n04:00.776 --> 04:21.949\n亂搞亂搞這已經有違契約的規定有違契約的規定的話我們在退場以前國發經濟的董事是不是要在裡面主張該做什麼樣的事情這個是監察院的修正報告是的這個不是我說的而已我去年記者會開的內容我們的監察院印證百分之一百全部都是真的\n\n04:22.549 --> 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14:45:41","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155238,"gazette":{"lineno":810,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（14時41分）謝謝，麻煩有請主委。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員午安。"],["黃委員國昌：主委好，時間的關係，我們就流暢一點進行。國發會大概在2018年的時候，以30億成立綠能國家隊，投資了聯合再生，接下來發生一堆問題，當初國發基金是說公股的董事會積極的監督，所謂積極的監督，我們來看一下：第一個，從我們的國發基金投資了以後又虧損上百億，當初就有立法委員質疑這是紓困基金還是國發基金？除了投資效能非常慘不忍睹之外，讓我們更痛心的事情是經濟部工業局把地給了聯合再生，結果它竟然違約去套利2.63億元。當初的交易我們來看一下，出售的金額高達4.26億元，為什麼沒有提請董事會討論？國發基金派任的董事在幹嘛？請主委說明。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：據我了解，我們有在董事會上提出意見，但是因為我們只有一票。我現在的作法跟您報告一下，我們已經進行退場機制，8月27號開始啟動，原因很簡單，我們希望投資的公司，公司治理要變好，我們現在最大的問題是一席董事跟六點多percent的股份，在公司法上面，我們有一定的難度。"],["黃委員國昌：主委，我插一個問題，主委是不是可以請國發基金的同仁會後提供給我資料？針對國發基金，你說只有6%多嘛，但你把十大股東攤開來看，第一名是國發基金，第二名耀華玻璃，第三名到第十名加起來，差不多跟國發基金第一名的持股數是一樣的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，但是我們是一席董事……"],["黃委員國昌：在這種股權結構之下，我要請國發基金會後提供的資料是，我們是第一大股東，在股東會的時候，我們的表決股權是怎麼行使的？為什麼竟然只選了一席董事？你懂我的意思嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我懂你的意思。"],["黃委員國昌：後面有很多連1%都沒有的都可以當選董事，我們是第一大股東，竟然只有一席董事，我們是把表決權數的股數去支持其他人嗎？是嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員歷次的提醒我都有關注到，所以我們才會進行退場機制。"],["黃委員國昌：這是兩回事，現在要退場，那我們就密切的關注它退場的機制。第二個，在還沒有退場以前，我們國家的權益要捍衛、要主張，這家公司的公司治理有嚴重的問題，所以主委才決定要退場？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，因為我也找過律師討論過，依照公司法，第一個，依照公司治理，我們只能在董事會表示意見，我們無法去指揮這家公司……"],["黃委員國昌：對啦，但是我現在要跟主委……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：第二個是您提的每件事，我們都要求對方……"],["黃委員國昌：等一下，先停一下。我跟主委交換的意見是我們派去的董事發表過幾次意見，然後被人家無視。今天因為時間的關係……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我跟您報告，不是無視，我們曾經被那家公司要求更換董事，我們的董事太tough了。"],["黃委員國昌：會後是不是可以再麻煩國發基金新的執行長來說明？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：可以嘛，好。","最後一個問題就是我去年所指責的事項，連我們的監察院都印證說這是真的，亂搞！這已經有違契約的規定，有違契約規定的話，我們在退場以前，國發基金的董事是不是要在裡面主張該做什麼樣的事情？這個是監察院的糾正報告，這不是我說的而已，我去年記者會開的內容，我們的監察院印證百分之一百全部都是真的。我們的國發基金在退場以前，我們派任的董事該做一些什麼事情，請主委會後書面跟我說明可以嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，我把書面給您，我們有做事。"],["黃委員國昌：可以吧？好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，請回座。","下一位請陳培瑜，陳培瑜、陳培瑜不在。","林倩綺、林倩綺、林倩綺不在。","請黃建賓委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}}