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\"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 664.463, \"end\": 664.483, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 664.483, \"end\": 664.503, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,886 --> 00:00:23,112\n主席麻煩我們的部長部長早今天要跟你部長來討論少子女化跟特殊需求兒少安置到底要怎麼樣去解決\n\n2\n00:00:27,502 --> 00:00:36,219\n首先針對特殊需求安置的孩子在我上任前就有參與我們在111年兒權公約的國家報告國際委員來台的審查會議當中\n\n3\n00:00:37,298 --> 00:00:57,253\n我記得當時就有提到因為他覺得在106年的時候他們來審查的時候就希望安置能夠去機構化不要再安置在機構可是看起來很難達到所以他說那到底臺灣的短中長期怎麼去走就是到底既然你16年\n\n4\n00:00:59,107 --> 00:01:24,106\n我提出來這樣做你做不到那你的短中長期怎麼去甚至私立的安置機構要改善還有要有有效的把關措施下一頁那可是為什麼國際委員審查有這些結論那我自己在上來之前我擔任兒童權益促進聯盟的\n\n5\n00:02:30,994 --> 00:02:31,794\n甚至有情緒障礙的孩子他\n\n6\n00:03:40,066 --> 00:04:04,879\n都是不足夠的那有的護理人員還自己去學幼兒的照顧資能這是不是有點是違背顛倒的狀況那根本就是沒有辦法跟學校溝通孩子的課業很多問題是要跟學校溝通的這些護理人員怎麼去跟學校溝通他也不是社工他上下班時間也是跟兒少的需求不太一樣這過去本來安置機構就會有這個問題\n\n7\n00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:16,817\n那即便你先提出來你的報告提出來說要有社工人力進駐沒有錯社工人力進駐可是社工呢6點下班了孩子呢4點下課了他們交會的時間到底有多長\n\n8\n00:04:17,978 --> 00:04:18,938\n我看到你的報告我覺得\n\n9\n00:05:17,259 --> 00:05:41,792\n所以在111年人家國際委員也提出來所以想問你的從111年的6月的114人到112年的年底成長到176人所以想問部長原因是什麼衛福部為什麼對特殊需求的兒少安置的政策跟計畫有要修正跟調整嗎\n\n10\n00:05:43,237 --> 00:06:10,783\n好謝謝委員的催省那針對委員提出很多實務上發現的問題然後提出指導我個人深感敬佩因為這個是您花了很多的專業跟時間來瞭解非常謝謝那我們在針對特殊需求兒童的安置其實有兩個原則第一個就是我們盡量讓他回家庭\n\n11\n00:06:11,898 --> 00:06:33,367\n就是跟剛剛委員所提到的這個是衛福部一直在做的政策如果能夠回原生家庭最好如果不然就是安養家庭如果他調養的好的話所以這也是跟國際市場來的結果要回到家庭裡面去如果說他真的不能出來的話我們一定會有給他教育那比如說巡迴輔導教師的資源當然剛剛委員提到\n\n12\n00:06:44,110 --> 00:06:44,250\n下一頁齁\n\n13\n00:07:10,578 --> 00:07:38,576\n在這邊還是要提出我們當時在公聽會的一個訴求第一個由衛福部來委託或補助規劃成立北中南東區的專業輔導團隊給予我們的安置機構更多的專業能力跟服務可是你們的報告裡面說只有我的公辦的兒童之家有這樣子其他的私立不需要嗎第二個是衛福部要研擬安置特殊需求的兒少照顧分類標準跟評估機制來評估結果\n\n14\n00:07:40,337 --> 00:07:42,138\n第三個應該研擬將特殊需求安置兒少從長照機構\n\n15\n00:08:08,893 --> 00:08:17,918\n轉嫌到兒少機構的實施計畫這上次提出來二月提出來講到現在已經一年多了希望孩子能夠到\n\n16\n00:08:18,871 --> 00:08:45,709\n比較適宜他的一個機構主席不好意思再讓我一點時間那請問部長這些結論跟建議社家屬執行的進度是怎樣現在時間上來不及請你們就是再給我報告來往下所以在這邊我大概有三個短中長期的計畫短期希望還是研擬安置特殊需求的孩子分級分類的一個標準跟評估我們當然沒有辦法立即馬上去機構化可是應該要分級分類這個要去考慮\n\n17\n00:09:36,670 --> 00:09:37,391\n我10年來一向堅持這樣的方向\n\n18\n00:09:52,954 --> 00:10:12,586\n在努力所以好非常感謝部長能夠保持初心堅持對的事情也就是你同意要有中央的兒童專責單位我們一直在努力因為當時主張的是這樣今年是農年可是上半年只生了6萬3876人農年可能會比虎年更少去年度你還都\n\n19\n00:10:38,069 --> 00:11:03,456\n能夠以兒童為中心的社會以日本的經驗來成立兒童兒少的專責機構下一頁所以對少子化我們可不可以比照日本的經驗一個是成立中央級的專責單位來整合不是讓散播到各部會裡邊我們講的好聽叫做各失其職講難聽叫各自為政要有統合才有辦法解決因為要預算編列\n\n20\n00:11:04,343 --> 00:11:04,503\n謝謝另外一位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5886\t23112\t主席麻煩我們的部長部長早今天要跟你部長來討論少子女化跟特殊需求兒少安置到底要怎麼樣去解決\n27502\t36219\t首先針對特殊需求安置的孩子在我上任前就有參與我們在111年兒權公約的國家報告國際委員來台的審查會議當中\n37298\t57253\t我記得當時就有提到因為他覺得在106年的時候他們來審查的時候就希望安置能夠去機構化不要再安置在機構可是看起來很難達到所以他說那到底臺灣的短中長期怎麼去走就是到底既然你16年\n59107\t84106\t我提出來這樣做你做不到那你的短中長期怎麼去甚至私立的安置機構要改善還有要有有效的把關措施下一頁那可是為什麼國際委員審查有這些結論那我自己在上來之前我擔任兒童權益促進聯盟的\n84599\t109616\t﹗\n110230\t133865\t︺\n134121\t150674\t1111\n150994\t151794\t甚至有情緒障礙的孩子他\n175179\t202602\t2345\n203029\t219906\t️\n220066\t244879\t都是不足夠的那有的護理人員還自己去學幼兒的照顧資能這是不是有點是違背顛倒的狀況那根本就是沒有辦法跟學校溝通孩子的課業很多問題是要跟學校溝通的這些護理人員怎麼去跟學校溝通他也不是社工他上下班時間也是跟兒少的需求不太一樣這過去本來安置機構就會有這個問題\n246440\t256817\t那即便你先提出來你的報告提出來說要有社工人力進駐沒有錯社工人力進駐可是社工呢6點下班了孩子呢4點下課了他們交會的時間到底有多長\n257978\t258938\t我看到你的報告我覺得\n287329\t316067\t⋯⋯⋯\n317259\t341792\t所以在111年人家國際委員也提出來所以想問你的從111年的6月的114人到112年的年底成長到176人所以想問部長原因是什麼衛福部為什麼對特殊需求的兒少安置的政策跟計畫有要修正跟調整嗎\n343237\t370783\t好 謝謝委員的催省那針對委員提出很多實務上發現的問題然後提出指導我個人深感敬佩因為這個是您花了很多的專業跟時間來瞭解非常謝謝那我們在針對特殊需求兒童的安置其實有兩個原則第一個就是我們盡量讓他回家庭\n371898\t393367\t就是跟剛剛委員所提到的這個是衛福部一直在做的政策如果能夠回原生家庭最好如果不然就是安養家庭如果他調養的好的話所以這也是跟國際市場來的結果要回到家庭裡面去如果說他真的不能出來的話我們一定會有給他教育那比如說巡迴輔導教師的資源當然剛剛委員提到\n396408\t403814\t﹗\n404110\t404250\t下一頁齁\n430578\t458576\t在這邊還是要提出我們當時在公聽會的一個訴求第一個由衛福部來委託或補助規劃成立北中南東區的專業輔導團隊給予我們的安置機構更多的專業能力跟服務可是你們的報告裡面說只有我的公辦的兒童之家有這樣子其他的私立不需要嗎第二個是衛福部要研擬安置特殊需求的兒少照顧分類標準跟評估機制來評估結果\n460337\t462138\t第三個應該研擬將特殊需求安置兒少從長照機構\n488893\t497918\t轉嫌到兒少機構的實施計畫這上次提出來二月提出來講到現在已經一年多了希望孩子能夠到\n498871\t525709\t比較適宜他的一個機構主席不好意思再讓我一點時間那請問部長這些結論跟建議社家屬執行的進度是怎樣現在時間上來不及請你們就是再給我報告來往下所以在這邊我大概有三個短中長期的計畫短期希望還是研擬安置特殊需求的孩子分級分類的一個標準跟評估我們當然沒有辦法立即馬上去機構化可是應該要分級分類這個要去考慮\n526049\t551937\t﹗\n551937\t575998\t﹗\n576670\t577391\t我10年來一向堅持這樣的方向\n592954\t612586\t在努力所以好非常感謝部長能夠保持初心堅持對的事情也就是你同意要有中央的兒童專責單位我們一直在努力因為當時主張的是這樣今年是農年可是上半年只生了6萬3876人農年可能會比虎年更少去年度你還都\n613046\t636988\t﹗\n638069\t663456\t能夠以兒童為中心的社會以日本的經驗來成立兒童兒少的專責機構下一頁所以對少子化我們可不可以比照日本的經驗一個是成立中央級的專責單位來整合不是讓散播到各部會裡邊我們講的好聽叫做各失其職講難聽叫各自為政要有統合才有辦法解決因為要預算編列\n664343\t664503\t謝謝另外一位\n","txt":"主席麻煩我們的部長部長早今天要跟你部長來討論少子女化跟特殊需求兒少安置到底要怎麼樣去解決\n首先針對特殊需求安置的孩子在我上任前就有參與我們在111年兒權公約的國家報告國際委員來台的審查會議當中\n我記得當時就有提到因為他覺得在106年的時候他們來審查的時候就希望安置能夠去機構化不要再安置在機構可是看起來很難達到所以他說那到底臺灣的短中長期怎麼去走就是到底既然你16年\n我提出來這樣做你做不到那你的短中長期怎麼去甚至私立的安置機構要改善還有要有有效的把關措施下一頁那可是為什麼國際委員審查有這些結論那我自己在上來之前我擔任兒童權益促進聯盟的\n﹗\n︺\n1111\n甚至有情緒障礙的孩子他\n2345\n️\n都是不足夠的那有的護理人員還自己去學幼兒的照顧資能這是不是有點是違背顛倒的狀況那根本就是沒有辦法跟學校溝通孩子的課業很多問題是要跟學校溝通的這些護理人員怎麼去跟學校溝通他也不是社工他上下班時間也是跟兒少的需求不太一樣這過去本來安置機構就會有這個問題\n那即便你先提出來你的報告提出來說要有社工人力進駐沒有錯社工人力進駐可是社工呢6點下班了孩子呢4點下課了他們交會的時間到底有多長\n我看到你的報告我覺得\n⋯⋯⋯\n所以在111年人家國際委員也提出來所以想問你的從111年的6月的114人到112年的年底成長到176人所以想問部長原因是什麼衛福部為什麼對特殊需求的兒少安置的政策跟計畫有要修正跟調整嗎\n好 謝謝委員的催省那針對委員提出很多實務上發現的問題然後提出指導我個人深感敬佩因為這個是您花了很多的專業跟時間來瞭解非常謝謝那我們在針對特殊需求兒童的安置其實有兩個原則第一個就是我們盡量讓他回家庭\n就是跟剛剛委員所提到的這個是衛福部一直在做的政策如果能夠回原生家庭最好如果不然就是安養家庭如果他調養的好的話所以這也是跟國際市場來的結果要回到家庭裡面去如果說他真的不能出來的話我們一定會有給他教育那比如說巡迴輔導教師的資源當然剛剛委員提到\n﹗\n下一頁齁\n在這邊還是要提出我們當時在公聽會的一個訴求第一個由衛福部來委託或補助規劃成立北中南東區的專業輔導團隊給予我們的安置機構更多的專業能力跟服務可是你們的報告裡面說只有我的公辦的兒童之家有這樣子其他的私立不需要嗎第二個是衛福部要研擬安置特殊需求的兒少照顧分類標準跟評估機制來評估結果\n第三個應該研擬將特殊需求安置兒少從長照機構\n轉嫌到兒少機構的實施計畫這上次提出來二月提出來講到現在已經一年多了希望孩子能夠到\n比較適宜他的一個機構主席不好意思再讓我一點時間那請問部長這些結論跟建議社家屬執行的進度是怎樣現在時間上來不及請你們就是再給我報告來往下所以在這邊我大概有三個短中長期的計畫短期希望還是研擬安置特殊需求的孩子分級分類的一個標準跟評估我們當然沒有辦法立即馬上去機構化可是應該要分級分類這個要去考慮\n﹗\n﹗\n我10年來一向堅持這樣的方向\n在努力所以好非常感謝部長能夠保持初心堅持對的事情也就是你同意要有中央的兒童專責單位我們一直在努力因為當時主張的是這樣今年是農年可是上半年只生了6萬3876人農年可能會比虎年更少去年度你還都\n﹗\n能夠以兒童為中心的社會以日本的經驗來成立兒童兒少的專責機構下一頁所以對少子化我們可不可以比照日本的經驗一個是成立中央級的專責單位來整合不是讓散播到各部會裡邊我們講的好聽叫做各失其職講難聽叫各自為政要有統合才有辦法解決因為要預算編列\n謝謝另外一位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.886 --> 00:23.112\n主席麻煩我們的部長部長早今天要跟你部長來討論少子女化跟特殊需求兒少安置到底要怎麼樣去解決\n\n00:27.502 --> 00:36.219\n首先針對特殊需求安置的孩子在我上任前就有參與我們在111年兒權公約的國家報告國際委員來台的審查會議當中\n\n00:37.298 --> 00:57.253\n我記得當時就有提到因為他覺得在106年的時候他們來審查的時候就希望安置能夠去機構化不要再安置在機構可是看起來很難達到所以他說那到底臺灣的短中長期怎麼去走就是到底既然你16年\n\n00:59.107 --> 01:24.106\n我提出來這樣做你做不到那你的短中長期怎麼去甚至私立的安置機構要改善還有要有有效的把關措施下一頁那可是為什麼國際委員審查有這些結論那我自己在上來之前我擔任兒童權益促進聯盟的\n\n02:30.994 --> 02:31.794\n甚至有情緒障礙的孩子他\n\n03:40.066 --> 04:04.879\n都是不足夠的那有的護理人員還自己去學幼兒的照顧資能這是不是有點是違背顛倒的狀況那根本就是沒有辦法跟學校溝通孩子的課業很多問題是要跟學校溝通的這些護理人員怎麼去跟學校溝通他也不是社工他上下班時間也是跟兒少的需求不太一樣這過去本來安置機構就會有這個問題\n\n04:06.440 --> 04:16.817\n那即便你先提出來你的報告提出來說要有社工人力進駐沒有錯社工人力進駐可是社工呢6點下班了孩子呢4點下課了他們交會的時間到底有多長\n\n04:17.978 --> 04:18.938\n我看到你的報告我覺得\n\n05:17.259 --> 05:41.792\n所以在111年人家國際委員也提出來所以想問你的從111年的6月的114人到112年的年底成長到176人所以想問部長原因是什麼衛福部為什麼對特殊需求的兒少安置的政策跟計畫有要修正跟調整嗎\n\n05:43.237 --> 06:10.783\n好謝謝委員的催省那針對委員提出很多實務上發現的問題然後提出指導我個人深感敬佩因為這個是您花了很多的專業跟時間來瞭解非常謝謝那我們在針對特殊需求兒童的安置其實有兩個原則第一個就是我們盡量讓他回家庭\n\n06:11.898 --> 06:33.367\n就是跟剛剛委員所提到的這個是衛福部一直在做的政策如果能夠回原生家庭最好如果不然就是安養家庭如果他調養的好的話所以這也是跟國際市場來的結果要回到家庭裡面去如果說他真的不能出來的話我們一定會有給他教育那比如說巡迴輔導教師的資源當然剛剛委員提到\n\n06:44.110 --> 06:44.250\n下一頁齁\n\n07:10.578 --> 07:38.576\n在這邊還是要提出我們當時在公聽會的一個訴求第一個由衛福部來委託或補助規劃成立北中南東區的專業輔導團隊給予我們的安置機構更多的專業能力跟服務可是你們的報告裡面說只有我的公辦的兒童之家有這樣子其他的私立不需要嗎第二個是衛福部要研擬安置特殊需求的兒少照顧分類標準跟評估機制來評估結果\n\n07:40.337 --> 07:42.138\n第三個應該研擬將特殊需求安置兒少從長照機構\n\n08:08.893 --> 08:17.918\n轉嫌到兒少機構的實施計畫這上次提出來二月提出來講到現在已經一年多了希望孩子能夠到\n\n08:18.871 --> 08:45.709\n比較適宜他的一個機構主席不好意思再讓我一點時間那請問部長這些結論跟建議社家屬執行的進度是怎樣現在時間上來不及請你們就是再給我報告來往下所以在這邊我大概有三個短中長期的計畫短期希望還是研擬安置特殊需求的孩子分級分類的一個標準跟評估我們當然沒有辦法立即馬上去機構化可是應該要分級分類這個要去考慮\n\n09:36.670 --> 09:37.391\n我10年來一向堅持這樣的方向\n\n09:52.954 --> 10:12.586\n在努力所以好非常感謝部長能夠保持初心堅持對的事情也就是你同意要有中央的兒童專責單位我們一直在努力因為當時主張的是這樣今年是農年可是上半年只生了6萬3876人農年可能會比虎年更少去年度你還都\n\n10:38.069 --> 11:03.456\n能夠以兒童為中心的社會以日本的經驗來成立兒童兒少的專責機構下一頁所以對少子化我們可不可以比照日本的經驗一個是成立中央級的專責單位來整合不是讓散播到各部會裡邊我們講的好聽叫做各失其職講難聽叫各自為政要有統合才有辦法解決因為要預算編列\n\n11:04.343 --> 11:04.503\n謝謝另外一位\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.886,"end":23.112,"text":"主席麻煩我們的部長部長早今天要跟你部長來討論少子女化跟特殊需求兒少安置到底要怎麼樣去解決"},{"start":27.502,"end":36.219,"text":"首先針對特殊需求安置的孩子在我上任前就有參與我們在111年兒權公約的國家報告國際委員來台的審查會議當中"},{"start":37.298,"end":57.253,"text":"我記得當時就有提到因為他覺得在106年的時候他們來審查的時候就希望安置能夠去機構化不要再安置在機構可是看起來很難達到所以他說那到底臺灣的短中長期怎麼去走就是到底既然你16年"},{"start":59.107,"end":84.106,"text":"我提出來這樣做你做不到那你的短中長期怎麼去甚至私立的安置機構要改善還有要有有效的把關措施下一頁那可是為什麼國際委員審查有這些結論那我自己在上來之前我擔任兒童權益促進聯盟的"},{"start":84.599,"end":109.616,"text":"﹗"},{"start":110.23,"end":133.865,"text":"︺"},{"start":134.121,"end":150.674,"text":"1111"},{"start":150.994,"end":151.794,"text":"甚至有情緒障礙的孩子他"},{"start":175.179,"end":202.602,"text":"2345"},{"start":203.029,"end":219.906,"text":" ️"},{"start":220.066,"end":244.879,"text":"都是不足夠的那有的護理人員還自己去學幼兒的照顧資能這是不是有點是違背顛倒的狀況那根本就是沒有辦法跟學校溝通孩子的課業很多問題是要跟學校溝通的這些護理人員怎麼去跟學校溝通他也不是社工他上下班時間也是跟兒少的需求不太一樣這過去本來安置機構就會有這個問題"},{"start":246.44,"end":256.817,"text":"那即便你先提出來你的報告提出來說要有社工人力進駐沒有錯社工人力進駐可是社工呢6點下班了孩子呢4點下課了他們交會的時間到底有多長"},{"start":257.978,"end":258.938,"text":"我看到你的報告我覺得"},{"start":287.329,"end":316.067,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":317.259,"end":341.792,"text":"所以在111年人家國際委員也提出來所以想問你的從111年的6月的114人到112年的年底成長到176人所以想問部長原因是什麼衛福部為什麼對特殊需求的兒少安置的政策跟計畫有要修正跟調整嗎"},{"start":343.237,"end":370.783,"text":"好 謝謝委員的催省那針對委員提出很多實務上發現的問題然後提出指導我個人深感敬佩因為這個是您花了很多的專業跟時間來瞭解非常謝謝那我們在針對特殊需求兒童的安置其實有兩個原則第一個就是我們盡量讓他回家庭"},{"start":371.898,"end":393.367,"text":"就是跟剛剛委員所提到的這個是衛福部一直在做的政策如果能夠回原生家庭最好如果不然就是安養家庭如果他調養的好的話所以這也是跟國際市場來的結果要回到家庭裡面去如果說他真的不能出來的話我們一定會有給他教育那比如說巡迴輔導教師的資源當然剛剛委員提到"},{"start":396.408,"end":403.814,"text":" ﹗"},{"start":404.11,"end":404.25,"text":"下一頁齁"},{"start":430.578,"end":458.576,"text":"在這邊還是要提出我們當時在公聽會的一個訴求第一個由衛福部來委託或補助規劃成立北中南東區的專業輔導團隊給予我們的安置機構更多的專業能力跟服務可是你們的報告裡面說只有我的公辦的兒童之家有這樣子其他的私立不需要嗎第二個是衛福部要研擬安置特殊需求的兒少照顧分類標準跟評估機制來評估結果"},{"start":460.337,"end":462.138,"text":"第三個應該研擬將特殊需求安置兒少從長照機構"},{"start":488.893,"end":497.918,"text":"轉嫌到兒少機構的實施計畫這上次提出來二月提出來講到現在已經一年多了希望孩子能夠到"},{"start":498.871,"end":525.709,"text":"比較適宜他的一個機構主席不好意思再讓我一點時間那請問部長這些結論跟建議社家屬執行的進度是怎樣現在時間上來不及請你們就是再給我報告來往下所以在這邊我大概有三個短中長期的計畫短期希望還是研擬安置特殊需求的孩子分級分類的一個標準跟評估我們當然沒有辦法立即馬上去機構化可是應該要分級分類這個要去考慮"},{"start":526.049,"end":551.937,"text":"﹗"},{"start":551.937,"end":575.998,"text":" ﹗"},{"start":576.67,"end":577.391,"text":"我10年來一向堅持這樣的方向"},{"start":592.954,"end":612.586,"text":"在努力所以好非常感謝部長能夠保持初心堅持對的事情也就是你同意要有中央的兒童專責單位我們一直在努力因為當時主張的是這樣今年是農年可是上半年只生了6萬3876人農年可能會比虎年更少去年度你還都"},{"start":613.046,"end":636.988,"text":" ﹗"},{"start":638.069,"end":663.456,"text":"能夠以兒童為中心的社會以日本的經驗來成立兒童兒少的專責機構下一頁所以對少子化我們可不可以比照日本的經驗一個是成立中央級的專責單位來整合不是讓散播到各部會裡邊我們講的好聽叫做各失其職講難聽叫各自為政要有統合才有辦法解決因為要預算編列"},{"start":664.343,"end":664.503,"text":"謝謝另外一位"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:14:04 - 09:25:29","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155264,"gazette":{"lineno":127,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時14分）主席，麻煩我們的部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員早。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。今天要跟你討論少子女化跟特殊需求兒少安置到底要怎麼樣解決。首先針對特殊需求安置的孩子，在我上任前就有參與111年兒權公約國家報告國際委員來臺的審查會議，我記得當時就有提到，因為在106年他們來審查的時候就希望安置能夠去機構化，不要再安置在機構，可是看起來很難達到，所以他們問到底臺灣的短中長期怎麼走？也就是，既然2016年提出來這樣做，但你做不到，那你的短中長期怎麼做？甚至私立的安置機構要改善，還要有有效把關措施。可是為什麼國際委員審查有這些結論？我自己上任之前擔任兒童權益促進聯盟理事長，在2023（去）年2月跟吳玉琴委員開辦特殊需求兒少家外安置的公聽會，所以才會有監察院查這個案子。當時就有提到有144位特殊需求兒少被安置在成人機構裡，可是還是很遺憾的是，這些沒人照顧的孩子們在一個成人護理之家或醫院，沒有人去照顧這些孩子的課業，也沒有同儕互動，明顯忽視兒少的教育跟教養、休閒娛樂，以及成長的權利，而且常有需求資源沒辦法滿足，有一些這樣的困難。可是看到監察院的報告，再看到你們的報告的時候，我真的覺得滿難以理解的，為什麼這樣講？因為就是當初求助我們的個案所講的，跟你們現在報告講的都不太一樣。第一個，安置的兒少，你們講是重症，其實有的是保護性的個案，根本不是重症的孩子，他卻被安置在護理之家，甚至也因為口耳相傳，本來只有一個，結果變成20個孩子被安置在護理之家，如果不是重症的話就沒有這個需求；甚至有的剛開始是重症，但後來把呼吸器拿掉了，各方面都顯現OK的時候，還是繼續，因為單親媽媽沒辦法照顧；這也是監察院報告裡面有的，當初就是我們提供的相關資料，結果你們的報告完全不顯現這個。甚至有情緒障礙的孩子，他有性的問題，以及到國中期還有被排擠的問題，這個是護理之家、醫院可以解決的嗎？看起來是沒辦法！所以你的安置兒少非你自己報告寫的如此，這是我提出來的第一個。","第二個是人力配比。今天安置兒少跟安置成人的護理之家跟醫院基本上是不太一樣的，問題是你把兒少安置在護理之家、安置在醫院裡面，這除了人力以外，還有專業能力的問題，還有外籍的，我不知道部長看不看監察院的報告，裡面敘明還有外籍的人，他要怎麼跟兒少溝通？兒少從他身上去學語言，怎麼去學？甚至他的照顧知能都是不足夠的，有的護理人員還自己去學幼兒的照顧知能，這是不是有點違背、顛倒的狀況？根本就是沒有辦法跟學校溝通，孩子的課業很多，問題是要跟學校溝通，但這些護理人員怎麼去跟學校溝通？他們不是社工，他們上下班的時間也跟兒少的需求不太一樣，在過去本來安置機構就會有這個問題。即便你今天的報告提出來說要有社工人力進駐，沒有錯！社工人力進駐，但是社工6點下班，孩子4點下課了，他們交會的時間到底有多長？根本就還是沒有辦法符合兒少的需求。可是一般的安置機構會考慮到這樣的情形，所以會提供生輔人員，甚至有些社工會因為孩子的特殊需求會晚一點下班。所以當初我們在公聽會要求的就是專業人力跟照顧、跟教養方式、跟人數比這些都要去考量。但是我看到你的報告，我覺得真的只能講是敷衍了事，因為跟我們實際碰到的經驗是完全不一樣的。","在106年的時候，我剛剛提過，兒權公約就已經提出要去機構化，更何況特殊需求的孩子！本來之前我們開公聽會的時候，有144個要你們改善，現在竟然已經有176個安置，我不知道怎麼反而是成長的，這個問題111年國際委員也有提出來，但從111年6月的144人到112年年底成長到176人，所以想問部長原因是什麼？衛福部對於特殊需求的兒少安置政策跟計畫有要修正跟調整嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的垂詢，針對委員提出很多實務上發現的問題，然後提出指導，我個人深感敬佩，因為這是您花了很多的專業跟時間來了解，非常謝謝。","針對特殊需求兒童的安置，其實有兩個原則，第一個是我們儘量讓他回家庭，就是剛剛委員所提到的，這個是衛福部一直在做的政策，如果能夠回原生家庭最好，不然就是安養家庭，如果他調養得好的話……"],["林委員月琴：所以這也是跟國際接軌，就是要回到家庭裡面去。"],["邱部長泰源：對。第二個，如果真的不能出來的話，我們一定會給他教育，譬如巡迴輔導教師的資源，當然剛剛委員提到在時間上的配合或怎麼樣，我們都可以把細節調整。"],["林委員月琴：先從護理之家移出來，可以嗎？讓孩子還是到適合兒少的地方，即便是特殊需求，還是適合到有符合專業能力的人來照顧。"],["邱部長泰源：對，所以我們未來也會儘量來……尤其在113年我們也增加補助長照機構設置兒少專門的照顧專區，希望給他們更好的照顧，這個也在我們的……"],["林委員月琴：在這邊我還是要提出我們當時在公聽會的一個訴求。第一個，由衛福部來委託或補助規劃成立北、中、南、東區的專業輔導團隊，給予我們的安置機構更多的專業能力跟服務，可是你們的報告裡面說，只有我的公辦兒童之家有這樣子的服務，其他私立的不需要嗎？第二個是衛福部要研擬安置特殊需求的兒少照顧分類標準跟評估機制，依評估結果來提供增額安置的費用，為什麼一般的安置機構不太敢收特殊需求的兒少？有些機構大概就是會挑個案，因為你的費用根本就不到位，才2萬3,000元，人家怎麼做？人家安置一個孩子，基本上在等你的孩子來，他等床位，平常的費用一個孩子大概要8萬塊，等到孩子進來的時候，你只給2萬3,000元。第三個，應該研擬將特殊需求安置的兒少，從長照機構轉銜到兒少機構的實施計畫，這個上次有提出來，從2月提出來講到現在已經一年多了，希望孩子能夠到比較適宜的機構。主席，不好意思，再給我一點時間。請問部長，這些結論跟建議社家署執行的進度是怎樣？現在時間來不及，請你們再給我報告。"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["林委員月琴：所以在這邊我大概有三個短、中、長期的計畫，短期還是希望研擬安置特殊需求的孩子分級分類的標準跟評估，我們當然沒有辦法立即、馬上去機構化，可是應該要分級分類，這個要去考慮，更何況應該要針對特殊需求的孩子，提供這樣子的兒少機構照顧。中期還是要有專業人員進入到兒少安置機構裡面，提供兒少安置機構的工作人員增能，不是護理人員自己去上課，事實上是要設計符合特殊需求兒少的個別化服務。長期的話，我們還是希望政府能夠自辦特殊需求兒少安置的機構或家園，讓特殊需求的孩子有穩定的安置場所，而且不受限於資源、就學跟照顧的困境。","光特殊需求這個部分要其他部會合作都很難，很多預算或者是管理都分散在各部會。講到少子化的部分，我想問一下，2024的邱部長，你對於這個有印象嗎？你是否支持當時2018年邱委員的承諾？"],["邱部長泰源：我10年來一向堅持朝這樣的方向在努力。"],["林委員月琴：好，非常感謝部長能夠保持初心，堅持對的事情，也就是你同意要有中央的兒童專責單位，因為當時主張的是這樣。"],["邱部長泰源：我們一直在努力，一直在溝通。"],["林委員月琴：今年是龍年，可是上半年只生了6萬3,876人，龍年可能會比虎年更少，去年兔年還都生到13萬5,000，今年不知道會不會變成連13萬都不到。日本去年在4月12號就成立了兒童及家庭廳，所以我們還是希望呼應當初2018年你跟民間團體提出的要求，希望有專責機構，你現在擔任部長了，是不是可以承諾能夠建立以兒童為中心的社會，以日本的經驗來成立兒少的專責機構？對於少子化的問題，我們可不可以比照日本的經驗？一個是成立中央級的專責單位來整合，不是分散到各部會裡面，我們講得好聽叫做各司其職，講得難聽叫各自為政，要統合才有辦法解決，因為要透過預算編列來解決少子化問題，還有希望可以朝向一個方向，因為現在很多委員都提了青年基本法，所以我也希望能夠研擬訂定兒童基本法，建立以兒童為中心的社會，這個就是日本的方式，才會有兒童政策的綱領。以上，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝，我們全力以赴。"],["主席：好，謝謝林委員、謝謝部長。","接續我們請陳昭姿委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}}