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00:00:29,546\n李慧琼議員\n\n3\n00:00:45,365 --> 00:00:45,625\n委員會主席\n\n4\n00:01:04,619 --> 00:01:26,466\n鳳林、玉里、灣橋、屏東的四所榮總分院也都增建住宿室長照機構的床位對於退府會持續來擴大榮院跟榮家的照護量本席是予以肯定可是當然我們要維持照護的量一定要有\n\n5\n00:01:27,506 --> 00:01:30,048\n實際辦理業務人數占整體時有人數的比例這些無所容加其實都\n\n6\n00:01:51,966 --> 00:01:54,387\n對於這個不到60%的實際辦理業務人數來講的話,我們會不會覺得說在人力方面會不足呢?\n\n7\n00:02:19,153 --> 00:02:28,119\n謝謝委員指導,我們目前16所農家8782床,現在目前的佔床率是6987,就是將近有80,將近有8成。剛剛委員現在公布的這個是實際辦理業務人數占……\n\n8\n00:02:35,964 --> 00:02:40,045\n護理師是符合老人福利機構設立的標準,就是護理人員隨時保持有一個人上班,然後養護跟施治1比20的配置\n\n9\n00:02:56,690 --> 00:03:08,191\n另外還有140名的社工﹚社工的人民這些目前來檢討設置的一個標準他是符合而且甚至於高過這個老人福利機構設立的標準都符合\n\n10\n00:03:09,085 --> 00:03:33,592\n所以說您是覺得說這個都是符合這個標準因為我們在實際辦理業務的這個人的內容就是大家包含的行政、醫事、藥事、護理跟社工人員所以我們是覺得說低於這60%的這些人員的配額其實它是符合我們目前所有的標準\n\n11\n00:03:34,392 --> 00:03:51,470\n主委說的是這樣子嗎?是,我們這邊的資料是護理人員,護理師的人力的一個配置,加上我們的社工人員有140個人,這個兩個數字加起來,現在目前都是符合老人機構的所以目前並沒有人力不足的問題是不是?\n\n12\n00:03:53,111 --> 00:04:15,842\n人力都沒有問題我看到像板橋台北他們都有到70%甚至以上像這個八德榮家有將近80%所以我現在看到的這幾家都是低於60%在這個比例上來講的話跟其他的榮家比的話他是有一些落差的\n\n13\n00:04:16,562 --> 00:04:17,282\n我們就想做一個詳細的說明\n\n14\n00:04:40,711 --> 00:04:48,278\n委員好我是救援養護署署長周星國這個資料是去年我們評鑑的資料我委請外面的評鑑委員依照老服機構的評鑑標準來評鑑這個事務能力從去年開始評鑑委員認為說事務能力是有缺盡快來補食但是在各農家運作上面它整體來看\n\n15\n00:05:02,592 --> 00:05:12,061\n運作都是沒有問題的他只是提醒我們補食能力那這段時間有關事務能力我們盡快來補食相關的能力營運這個農家運作的需求\n\n16\n00:05:13,244 --> 00:05:19,948\n目前為止如果說這些60%以下的這位農家那剛剛主委的意思是說實際上沒有人力不足的這個問題那如果這樣子講的話剛剛處長是您剛才講的這樣子的話跟主委講的可能會有一點點的出入因為我們的照護人力是沒有問題因為農家有照護你們的照護人力是屬於這個採這個外包的是不是委外的方式我們是勞務委外\n\n17\n00:05:39,778 --> 00:06:05,711\n勞務委外那有含在這裏面的人數嗎?不含在裏面是不是?所以這部分照顧的人數是委外的部分對委外還有本身的護理師護理人員是那照顧工作室執行是沒有問題的這是事務工作執行的方面我跟委員報告是護理師加上社工照顧的人民那委員這個表示整個是就是業務就是事務裡面所以這塊我們還要再繼續再繼續補師\n\n18\n00:06:12,621 --> 00:06:22,374\n站床率的部分雖然是說我們後來還是有開放一些床位讓一般的民眾來使用可是我們\n\n19\n00:06:22,654 --> 00:06:22,874\n李慧琼議員\n\n20\n00:06:38,755 --> 00:06:39,416\n李慧琼議員\n\n21\n00:07:00,034 --> 00:07:09,979\n提出一些檢討希望說這個部分我們的帳船率是不是可以有效的來做這個提升那當然我也有看了兩份資料舉個例子像這個張化榮家來講那像我們一般的安養也就是說我們榮民入住有分公費跟自費嘛公費跟自費目前的話我們都還是有一些空床嘛像這個公費的部分還有61床然後\n\n22\n00:07:28,707 --> 00:07:32,790\n自費還有16床可是我們看到說開放給一般民眾其實還有後住的人數有兩個人在等待那像這個的話能不能再因為它是在同一個榮民之家這也可以做調整嘛看起來像我們一般民眾我們開放給民眾的是53床那目前入住也是53床表示它是滿床的狀態還有兩個人在等\n\n23\n00:07:52,122 --> 00:07:59,993\n可是我們看到就是給榮民的公費自費也好可是他到目前為止他是有床位的這可以在院內裡面做調整嗎\n\n24\n00:08:03,516 --> 00:08:32,523\n像專化的農家他就有這個狀況報告主委我跟您報告一下我們每個禮拜都會檢討這個床位就您講的如果說農民沒有後住的狀況之下一般民眾有後住那我們會把這個床位轉給一般民眾來那你可能說有些兩個床位那你看那個數據也許他甚至在辦手續中但是這個床位的這個調整我們每週都會在做說還是會做調整就對了對希望這個資源能夠共享OK好\n\n25\n00:08:33,763 --> 00:08:52,512\n對,像彰化榮家您說因為他是兩個後駐人數也許這個他就會調整到其他的這個床位去可是我看到這個巴德榮家我們來看看巴德他像他一般安養有分公費跟自費的部分而目前後駐的人數呢\n\n26\n00:08:53,793 --> 00:09:08,591\n公費的部分有31人自費的部分有21人一般民眾更是高達180人看起來床位非常不足我們再來看看夫妻安養的部分也是有分公費跟自費\n\n27\n00:09:09,252 --> 00:09:30,544\n可是像夫妻安養的部分我們公費有18床然後自費有120床那目前他可申請的床數這兩個夫妻安養不管公費跟自費加起來其實有69床是可以是空床的部分那這部分他們如何去做調整這沒有辦法去做調整\n\n28\n00:09:31,505 --> 00:09:55,288\n我看要候住像這個一般安養的部分候住的人數非常的高可是夫妻安養的部分呢空場率又這麼的高這沒有辦法做調整嗎這是我在出去是看到的這個這個問題好不好委員因為夫妻並同案子是夫妻進來一起住進來的對他是兩個床位嘛他是兩個因為我看他們的照片喔座長你看右邊這個如果開放給一般的\n\n29\n00:09:56,409 --> 00:10:15,885\n一般安養的話是否一般安養可以入住那你們現在一般安養都是單人房嗎全部都是單人房嗎他的空間比較大如果說我今天一個人住到夫妻房裡面他空間是比較大其他住單人房的會比較之下為什麼你可以住夫妻房\n\n30\n00:10:16,525 --> 00:10:16,805\n主任委員\n\n31\n00:10:43,950 --> 00:11:08,826\n沒床的就沒床,空床就空在那裡,我想這個部分是沒有辦法做調整。對,我們在做聯合調度,我們實際上從451床已經增加到1635床,就一般的民眾,已經不斷的滾動式的調整。那會按照委員的指導,我們會請各農家評估狀況,如果是可以適當做一些調節就調節,然後地區、區域的也可以做一些調整。\n\n32\n00:11:11,015 --> 00:11:19,224\n本席是希望就是說我們的資源因為我們一開始就是說資源共享那也能夠希望這個資源能夠充分被利用以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t3491\t謝謝主席 有請嚴主委請嚴主委主委好就如剛剛主委在這個業務報告所提到的我們全台有16所的榮民之家然後我們又結合了4所的這個榮總跟12所榮總分院的醫療資源的發展這一個\n29326\t29546\t李慧琼議員\n45365\t45625\t委員會主席\n64619\t86466\t鳳林、玉里、灣橋、屏東的四所榮總分院也都增建住宿室長照機構的床位對於退府會持續來擴大榮院跟榮家的照護量本席是予以肯定可是當然我們要維持照護的量一定要有\n87506\t90048\t實際辦理業務人數占整體時有人數的比例這些無所容加其實都\n111966\t114387\t對於這個不到60%的實際辦理業務人數來講的話,我們會不會覺得說在人力方面會不足呢?\n139153\t148119\t謝謝委員指導,我們目前16所農家8782床,現在目前的佔床率是6987,就是將近有80,將近有8成。剛剛委員現在公布的這個是實際辦理業務人數占……\n155964\t160045\t護理師是符合老人福利機構設立的標準,就是護理人員隨時保持有一個人上班,然後養護跟施治1比20的配置\n176690\t188191\t另外還有140名的社工﹚社工的人民這些目前來檢討設置的一個標準他是符合而且甚至於高過這個老人福利機構設立的標準都符合\n189085\t213592\t所以說您是覺得說這個都是符合這個標準因為我們在實際辦理業務的這個人的內容就是大家包含的行政、醫事、藥事、護理跟社工人員所以我們是覺得說低於這60%的這些人員的配額其實它是符合我們目前所有的標準\n214392\t231470\t主委說的是這樣子嗎?是,我們這邊的資料是護理人員,護理師的人力的一個配置,加上我們的社工人員有140個人,這個兩個數字加起來,現在目前都是符合老人機構的所以目前並沒有人力不足的問題是不是?\n233111\t255842\t人力都沒有問題我看到像板橋台北他們都有到70%甚至以上像這個八德榮家有將近80%所以我現在看到的這幾家都是低於60%在這個比例上來講的話跟其他的榮家比的話他是有一些落差的\n256562\t257282\t我們就想做一個詳細的說明\n280711\t288278\t委員好 我是救援養護署署長周星國這個資料是去年我們評鑑的資料我委請外面的評鑑委員依照老服機構的評鑑標準來評鑑這個事務能力從去年開始評鑑委員認為說事務能力是有缺盡快來補食但是在各農家運作上面它整體來看\n302592\t312061\t運作都是沒有問題的他只是提醒我們補食能力那這段時間有關事務能力我們盡快來補食相關的能力營運這個農家運作的需求\n313244\t319948\t目前為止如果說這些60%以下的這位農家那剛剛主委的意思是說實際上沒有人力不足的這個問題那如果這樣子講的話剛剛處長是您剛才講的這樣子的話跟主委講的可能會有一點點的出入因為我們的照護人力是沒有問題因為農家有照護你們的照護人力是屬於這個採這個外包的是不是委外的方式我們是勞務委外\n339778\t365711\t勞務委外那有含在這裏面的人數嗎?不含在裏面是不是?所以這部分照顧的人數是委外的部分對委外還有本身的護理師護理人員是那照顧工作室執行是沒有問題的這是事務工作執行的方面我跟委員報告是護理師加上社工照顧的人民那委員這個表示整個是就是業務就是事務裡面所以這塊我們還要再繼續再繼續補師\n372621\t382374\t站床率的部分雖然是說我們後來還是有開放一些床位讓一般的民眾來使用可是我們\n382654\t382874\t李慧琼議員\n398755\t399416\t李慧琼議員\n420034\t429979\t提出一些檢討希望說這個部分我們的帳船率是不是可以有效的來做這個提升那當然我也有看了兩份資料舉個例子像這個張化榮家來講那像我們一般的安養也就是說我們榮民入住有分公費跟自費嘛公費跟自費目前的話我們都還是有一些空床嘛像這個公費的部分還有61床然後\n448707\t452790\t自費還有16床可是我們看到說開放給一般民眾其實還有後住的人數有兩個人在等待那像這個的話能不能再因為它是在同一個榮民之家這也可以做調整嘛看起來像我們一般民眾我們開放給民眾的是53床那目前入住也是53床表示它是滿床的狀態還有兩個人在等\n472122\t479993\t可是我們看到就是給榮民的公費自費也好可是他到目前為止他是有床位的這可以在院內裡面做調整嗎\n483516\t512523\t像專化的農家他就有這個狀況報告主委我跟您報告一下我們每個禮拜都會檢討這個床位就您講的如果說農民沒有後住的狀況之下一般民眾有後住那我們會把這個床位轉給一般民眾來那你可能說有些兩個床位那你看那個數據也許他甚至在辦手續中但是這個床位的這個調整我們每週都會在做說還是會做調整就對了對希望這個資源能夠共享OK好\n513763\t532512\t對,像彰化榮家您說因為他是兩個後駐人數也許這個他就會調整到其他的這個床位去可是我看到這個巴德榮家我們來看看巴德他像他一般安養有分公費跟自費的部分而目前後駐的人數呢\n533793\t548591\t公費的部分有31人自費的部分有21人一般民眾更是高達180人看起來床位非常不足我們再來看看夫妻安養的部分也是有分公費跟自費\n549252\t570544\t可是像夫妻安養的部分我們公費有18床然後自費有120床那目前他可申請的床數這兩個夫妻安養不管公費跟自費加起來其實有69床是可以是空床的部分那這部分他們如何去做調整這沒有辦法去做調整\n571505\t595288\t我看要候住像這個一般安養的部分候住的人數非常的高可是夫妻安養的部分呢空場率又這麼的高這沒有辦法做調整嗎這是我在出去是看到的這個這個問題好不好委員因為夫妻並同案子是夫妻進來一起住進來的對他是兩個床位嘛他是兩個因為我看他們的照片喔座長你看右邊這個如果開放給一般的\n596409\t615885\t一般安養的話是否一般安養可以入住那你們現在一般安養都是單人房嗎全部都是單人房嗎他的空間比較大如果說我今天一個人住到夫妻房裡面他空間是比較大其他住單人房的會比較之下為什麼你可以住夫妻房\n616525\t616805\t主任委員\n643950\t668826\t沒床的就沒床,空床就空在那裡,我想這個部分是沒有辦法做調整。對,我們在做聯合調度,我們實際上從451床已經增加到1635床,就一般的民眾,已經不斷的滾動式的調整。那會按照委員的指導,我們會請各農家評估狀況,如果是可以適當做一些調節就調節,然後地區、區域的也可以做一些調整。\n671015\t679224\t本席是希望就是說我們的資源因為我們一開始就是說資源共享那也能夠希望這個資源能夠充分被利用以上謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請嚴主委請嚴主委主委好就如剛剛主委在這個業務報告所提到的我們全台有16所的榮民之家然後我們又結合了4所的這個榮總跟12所榮總分院的醫療資源的發展這一個\n李慧琼議員\n委員會主席\n鳳林、玉里、灣橋、屏東的四所榮總分院也都增建住宿室長照機構的床位對於退府會持續來擴大榮院跟榮家的照護量本席是予以肯定可是當然我們要維持照護的量一定要有\n實際辦理業務人數占整體時有人數的比例這些無所容加其實都\n對於這個不到60%的實際辦理業務人數來講的話,我們會不會覺得說在人力方面會不足呢?\n謝謝委員指導,我們目前16所農家8782床,現在目前的佔床率是6987,就是將近有80,將近有8成。剛剛委員現在公布的這個是實際辦理業務人數占……\n護理師是符合老人福利機構設立的標準,就是護理人員隨時保持有一個人上班,然後養護跟施治1比20的配置\n另外還有140名的社工﹚社工的人民這些目前來檢討設置的一個標準他是符合而且甚至於高過這個老人福利機構設立的標準都符合\n所以說您是覺得說這個都是符合這個標準因為我們在實際辦理業務的這個人的內容就是大家包含的行政、醫事、藥事、護理跟社工人員所以我們是覺得說低於這60%的這些人員的配額其實它是符合我們目前所有的標準\n主委說的是這樣子嗎?是,我們這邊的資料是護理人員,護理師的人力的一個配置,加上我們的社工人員有140個人,這個兩個數字加起來,現在目前都是符合老人機構的所以目前並沒有人力不足的問題是不是?\n人力都沒有問題我看到像板橋台北他們都有到70%甚至以上像這個八德榮家有將近80%所以我現在看到的這幾家都是低於60%在這個比例上來講的話跟其他的榮家比的話他是有一些落差的\n我們就想做一個詳細的說明\n委員好 我是救援養護署署長周星國這個資料是去年我們評鑑的資料我委請外面的評鑑委員依照老服機構的評鑑標準來評鑑這個事務能力從去年開始評鑑委員認為說事務能力是有缺盡快來補食但是在各農家運作上面它整體來看\n運作都是沒有問題的他只是提醒我們補食能力那這段時間有關事務能力我們盡快來補食相關的能力營運這個農家運作的需求\n目前為止如果說這些60%以下的這位農家那剛剛主委的意思是說實際上沒有人力不足的這個問題那如果這樣子講的話剛剛處長是您剛才講的這樣子的話跟主委講的可能會有一點點的出入因為我們的照護人力是沒有問題因為農家有照護你們的照護人力是屬於這個採這個外包的是不是委外的方式我們是勞務委外\n勞務委外那有含在這裏面的人數嗎?不含在裏面是不是?所以這部分照顧的人數是委外的部分對委外還有本身的護理師護理人員是那照顧工作室執行是沒有問題的這是事務工作執行的方面我跟委員報告是護理師加上社工照顧的人民那委員這個表示整個是就是業務就是事務裡面所以這塊我們還要再繼續再繼續補師\n站床率的部分雖然是說我們後來還是有開放一些床位讓一般的民眾來使用可是我們\n李慧琼議員\n李慧琼議員\n提出一些檢討希望說這個部分我們的帳船率是不是可以有效的來做這個提升那當然我也有看了兩份資料舉個例子像這個張化榮家來講那像我們一般的安養也就是說我們榮民入住有分公費跟自費嘛公費跟自費目前的話我們都還是有一些空床嘛像這個公費的部分還有61床然後\n自費還有16床可是我們看到說開放給一般民眾其實還有後住的人數有兩個人在等待那像這個的話能不能再因為它是在同一個榮民之家這也可以做調整嘛看起來像我們一般民眾我們開放給民眾的是53床那目前入住也是53床表示它是滿床的狀態還有兩個人在等\n可是我們看到就是給榮民的公費自費也好可是他到目前為止他是有床位的這可以在院內裡面做調整嗎\n像專化的農家他就有這個狀況報告主委我跟您報告一下我們每個禮拜都會檢討這個床位就您講的如果說農民沒有後住的狀況之下一般民眾有後住那我們會把這個床位轉給一般民眾來那你可能說有些兩個床位那你看那個數據也許他甚至在辦手續中但是這個床位的這個調整我們每週都會在做說還是會做調整就對了對希望這個資源能夠共享OK好\n對,像彰化榮家您說因為他是兩個後駐人數也許這個他就會調整到其他的這個床位去可是我看到這個巴德榮家我們來看看巴德他像他一般安養有分公費跟自費的部分而目前後駐的人數呢\n公費的部分有31人自費的部分有21人一般民眾更是高達180人看起來床位非常不足我們再來看看夫妻安養的部分也是有分公費跟自費\n可是像夫妻安養的部分我們公費有18床然後自費有120床那目前他可申請的床數這兩個夫妻安養不管公費跟自費加起來其實有69床是可以是空床的部分那這部分他們如何去做調整這沒有辦法去做調整\n我看要候住像這個一般安養的部分候住的人數非常的高可是夫妻安養的部分呢空場率又這麼的高這沒有辦法做調整嗎這是我在出去是看到的這個這個問題好不好委員因為夫妻並同案子是夫妻進來一起住進來的對他是兩個床位嘛他是兩個因為我看他們的照片喔座長你看右邊這個如果開放給一般的\n一般安養的話是否一般安養可以入住那你們現在一般安養都是單人房嗎全部都是單人房嗎他的空間比較大如果說我今天一個人住到夫妻房裡面他空間是比較大其他住單人房的會比較之下為什麼你可以住夫妻房\n主任委員\n沒床的就沒床,空床就空在那裡,我想這個部分是沒有辦法做調整。對,我們在做聯合調度,我們實際上從451床已經增加到1635床,就一般的民眾,已經不斷的滾動式的調整。那會按照委員的指導,我們會請各農家評估狀況,如果是可以適當做一些調節就調節,然後地區、區域的也可以做一些調整。\n本席是希望就是說我們的資源因為我們一開始就是說資源共享那也能夠希望這個資源能夠充分被利用以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:03.491\n謝謝主席有請嚴主委請嚴主委主委好就如剛剛主委在這個業務報告所提到的我們全台有16所的榮民之家然後我們又結合了4所的這個榮總跟12所榮總分院的醫療資源的發展這一個\n\n00:29.326 --> 00:29.546\n李慧琼議員\n\n00:45.365 --> 00:45.625\n委員會主席\n\n01:04.619 --> 01:26.466\n鳳林、玉里、灣橋、屏東的四所榮總分院也都增建住宿室長照機構的床位對於退府會持續來擴大榮院跟榮家的照護量本席是予以肯定可是當然我們要維持照護的量一定要有\n\n01:27.506 --> 01:30.048\n實際辦理業務人數占整體時有人數的比例這些無所容加其實都\n\n01:51.966 --> 01:54.387\n對於這個不到60%的實際辦理業務人數來講的話,我們會不會覺得說在人力方面會不足呢?\n\n02:19.153 --> 02:28.119\n謝謝委員指導,我們目前16所農家8782床,現在目前的佔床率是6987,就是將近有80,將近有8成。剛剛委員現在公布的這個是實際辦理業務人數占……\n\n02:35.964 --> 02:40.045\n護理師是符合老人福利機構設立的標準,就是護理人員隨時保持有一個人上班,然後養護跟施治1比20的配置\n\n02:56.690 --> 03:08.191\n另外還有140名的社工﹚社工的人民這些目前來檢討設置的一個標準他是符合而且甚至於高過這個老人福利機構設立的標準都符合\n\n03:09.085 --> 03:33.592\n所以說您是覺得說這個都是符合這個標準因為我們在實際辦理業務的這個人的內容就是大家包含的行政、醫事、藥事、護理跟社工人員所以我們是覺得說低於這60%的這些人員的配額其實它是符合我們目前所有的標準\n\n03:34.392 --> 03:51.470\n主委說的是這樣子嗎?是,我們這邊的資料是護理人員,護理師的人力的一個配置,加上我們的社工人員有140個人,這個兩個數字加起來,現在目前都是符合老人機構的所以目前並沒有人力不足的問題是不是?\n\n03:53.111 --> 04:15.842\n人力都沒有問題我看到像板橋台北他們都有到70%甚至以上像這個八德榮家有將近80%所以我現在看到的這幾家都是低於60%在這個比例上來講的話跟其他的榮家比的話他是有一些落差的\n\n04:16.562 --> 04:17.282\n我們就想做一個詳細的說明\n\n04:40.711 --> 04:48.278\n委員好我是救援養護署署長周星國這個資料是去年我們評鑑的資料我委請外面的評鑑委員依照老服機構的評鑑標準來評鑑這個事務能力從去年開始評鑑委員認為說事務能力是有缺盡快來補食但是在各農家運作上面它整體來看\n\n05:02.592 --> 05:12.061\n運作都是沒有問題的他只是提醒我們補食能力那這段時間有關事務能力我們盡快來補食相關的能力營運這個農家運作的需求\n\n05:13.244 --> 05:19.948\n目前為止如果說這些60%以下的這位農家那剛剛主委的意思是說實際上沒有人力不足的這個問題那如果這樣子講的話剛剛處長是您剛才講的這樣子的話跟主委講的可能會有一點點的出入因為我們的照護人力是沒有問題因為農家有照護你們的照護人力是屬於這個採這個外包的是不是委外的方式我們是勞務委外\n\n05:39.778 --> 06:05.711\n勞務委外那有含在這裏面的人數嗎?不含在裏面是不是?所以這部分照顧的人數是委外的部分對委外還有本身的護理師護理人員是那照顧工作室執行是沒有問題的這是事務工作執行的方面我跟委員報告是護理師加上社工照顧的人民那委員這個表示整個是就是業務就是事務裡面所以這塊我們還要再繼續再繼續補師\n\n06:12.621 --> 06:22.374\n站床率的部分雖然是說我們後來還是有開放一些床位讓一般的民眾來使用可是我們\n\n06:22.654 --> 06:22.874\n李慧琼議員\n\n06:38.755 --> 06:39.416\n李慧琼議員\n\n07:00.034 --> 07:09.979\n提出一些檢討希望說這個部分我們的帳船率是不是可以有效的來做這個提升那當然我也有看了兩份資料舉個例子像這個張化榮家來講那像我們一般的安養也就是說我們榮民入住有分公費跟自費嘛公費跟自費目前的話我們都還是有一些空床嘛像這個公費的部分還有61床然後\n\n07:28.707 --> 07:32.790\n自費還有16床可是我們看到說開放給一般民眾其實還有後住的人數有兩個人在等待那像這個的話能不能再因為它是在同一個榮民之家這也可以做調整嘛看起來像我們一般民眾我們開放給民眾的是53床那目前入住也是53床表示它是滿床的狀態還有兩個人在等\n\n07:52.122 --> 07:59.993\n可是我們看到就是給榮民的公費自費也好可是他到目前為止他是有床位的這可以在院內裡面做調整嗎\n\n08:03.516 --> 08:32.523\n像專化的農家他就有這個狀況報告主委我跟您報告一下我們每個禮拜都會檢討這個床位就您講的如果說農民沒有後住的狀況之下一般民眾有後住那我們會把這個床位轉給一般民眾來那你可能說有些兩個床位那你看那個數據也許他甚至在辦手續中但是這個床位的這個調整我們每週都會在做說還是會做調整就對了對希望這個資源能夠共享OK好\n\n08:33.763 --> 08:52.512\n對,像彰化榮家您說因為他是兩個後駐人數也許這個他就會調整到其他的這個床位去可是我看到這個巴德榮家我們來看看巴德他像他一般安養有分公費跟自費的部分而目前後駐的人數呢\n\n08:53.793 --> 09:08.591\n公費的部分有31人自費的部分有21人一般民眾更是高達180人看起來床位非常不足我們再來看看夫妻安養的部分也是有分公費跟自費\n\n09:09.252 --> 09:30.544\n可是像夫妻安養的部分我們公費有18床然後自費有120床那目前他可申請的床數這兩個夫妻安養不管公費跟自費加起來其實有69床是可以是空床的部分那這部分他們如何去做調整這沒有辦法去做調整\n\n09:31.505 --> 09:55.288\n我看要候住像這個一般安養的部分候住的人數非常的高可是夫妻安養的部分呢空場率又這麼的高這沒有辦法做調整嗎這是我在出去是看到的這個這個問題好不好委員因為夫妻並同案子是夫妻進來一起住進來的對他是兩個床位嘛他是兩個因為我看他們的照片喔座長你看右邊這個如果開放給一般的\n\n09:56.409 --> 10:15.885\n一般安養的話是否一般安養可以入住那你們現在一般安養都是單人房嗎全部都是單人房嗎他的空間比較大如果說我今天一個人住到夫妻房裡面他空間是比較大其他住單人房的會比較之下為什麼你可以住夫妻房\n\n10:16.525 --> 10:16.805\n主任委員\n\n10:43.950 --> 11:08.826\n沒床的就沒床,空床就空在那裡,我想這個部分是沒有辦法做調整。對,我們在做聯合調度,我們實際上從451床已經增加到1635床,就一般的民眾,已經不斷的滾動式的調整。那會按照委員的指導,我們會請各農家評估狀況,如果是可以適當做一些調節就調節,然後地區、區域的也可以做一些調整。\n\n11:11.015 --> 11:19.224\n本席是希望就是說我們的資源因為我們一開始就是說資源共享那也能夠希望這個資源能夠充分被利用以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":3.491,"text":"謝謝主席 有請嚴主委請嚴主委主委好就如剛剛主委在這個業務報告所提到的我們全台有16所的榮民之家然後我們又結合了4所的這個榮總跟12所榮總分院的醫療資源的發展這一個"},{"start":29.326,"end":29.546,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":45.365,"end":45.625,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":64.619,"end":86.466,"text":"鳳林、玉里、灣橋、屏東的四所榮總分院也都增建住宿室長照機構的床位對於退府會持續來擴大榮院跟榮家的照護量本席是予以肯定可是當然我們要維持照護的量一定要有"},{"start":87.506,"end":90.048,"text":"實際辦理業務人數占整體時有人數的比例這些無所容加其實都"},{"start":111.966,"end":114.387,"text":"對於這個不到60%的實際辦理業務人數來講的話,我們會不會覺得說在人力方面會不足呢?"},{"start":139.153,"end":148.119,"text":"謝謝委員指導,我們目前16所農家8782床,現在目前的佔床率是6987,就是將近有80,將近有8成。剛剛委員現在公布的這個是實際辦理業務人數占……"},{"start":155.964,"end":160.045,"text":"護理師是符合老人福利機構設立的標準,就是護理人員隨時保持有一個人上班,然後養護跟施治1比20的配置"},{"start":176.69,"end":188.191,"text":"另外還有140名的社工﹚社工的人民這些目前來檢討設置的一個標準他是符合而且甚至於高過這個老人福利機構設立的標準都符合"},{"start":189.085,"end":213.592,"text":"所以說您是覺得說這個都是符合這個標準因為我們在實際辦理業務的這個人的內容就是大家包含的行政、醫事、藥事、護理跟社工人員所以我們是覺得說低於這60%的這些人員的配額其實它是符合我們目前所有的標準"},{"start":214.392,"end":231.47,"text":"主委說的是這樣子嗎?是,我們這邊的資料是護理人員,護理師的人力的一個配置,加上我們的社工人員有140個人,這個兩個數字加起來,現在目前都是符合老人機構的所以目前並沒有人力不足的問題是不是?"},{"start":233.111,"end":255.842,"text":"人力都沒有問題我看到像板橋台北他們都有到70%甚至以上像這個八德榮家有將近80%所以我現在看到的這幾家都是低於60%在這個比例上來講的話跟其他的榮家比的話他是有一些落差的"},{"start":256.562,"end":257.282,"text":"我們就想做一個詳細的說明"},{"start":280.711,"end":288.278,"text":"委員好 我是救援養護署署長周星國這個資料是去年我們評鑑的資料我委請外面的評鑑委員依照老服機構的評鑑標準來評鑑這個事務能力從去年開始評鑑委員認為說事務能力是有缺盡快來補食但是在各農家運作上面它整體來看"},{"start":302.592,"end":312.061,"text":"運作都是沒有問題的他只是提醒我們補食能力那這段時間有關事務能力我們盡快來補食相關的能力營運這個農家運作的需求"},{"start":313.244,"end":319.948,"text":"目前為止如果說這些60%以下的這位農家那剛剛主委的意思是說實際上沒有人力不足的這個問題那如果這樣子講的話剛剛處長是您剛才講的這樣子的話跟主委講的可能會有一點點的出入因為我們的照護人力是沒有問題因為農家有照護你們的照護人力是屬於這個採這個外包的是不是委外的方式我們是勞務委外"},{"start":339.778,"end":365.711,"text":"勞務委外那有含在這裏面的人數嗎?不含在裏面是不是?所以這部分照顧的人數是委外的部分對委外還有本身的護理師護理人員是那照顧工作室執行是沒有問題的這是事務工作執行的方面我跟委員報告是護理師加上社工照顧的人民那委員這個表示整個是就是業務就是事務裡面所以這塊我們還要再繼續再繼續補師"},{"start":372.621,"end":382.374,"text":"站床率的部分雖然是說我們後來還是有開放一些床位讓一般的民眾來使用可是我們"},{"start":382.654,"end":382.874,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":398.755,"end":399.416,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":420.034,"end":429.979,"text":"提出一些檢討希望說這個部分我們的帳船率是不是可以有效的來做這個提升那當然我也有看了兩份資料舉個例子像這個張化榮家來講那像我們一般的安養也就是說我們榮民入住有分公費跟自費嘛公費跟自費目前的話我們都還是有一些空床嘛像這個公費的部分還有61床然後"},{"start":448.707,"end":452.79,"text":"自費還有16床可是我們看到說開放給一般民眾其實還有後住的人數有兩個人在等待那像這個的話能不能再因為它是在同一個榮民之家這也可以做調整嘛看起來像我們一般民眾我們開放給民眾的是53床那目前入住也是53床表示它是滿床的狀態還有兩個人在等"},{"start":472.122,"end":479.993,"text":"可是我們看到就是給榮民的公費自費也好可是他到目前為止他是有床位的這可以在院內裡面做調整嗎"},{"start":483.516,"end":512.523,"text":"像專化的農家他就有這個狀況報告主委我跟您報告一下我們每個禮拜都會檢討這個床位就您講的如果說農民沒有後住的狀況之下一般民眾有後住那我們會把這個床位轉給一般民眾來那你可能說有些兩個床位那你看那個數據也許他甚至在辦手續中但是這個床位的這個調整我們每週都會在做說還是會做調整就對了對希望這個資源能夠共享OK好"},{"start":513.763,"end":532.512,"text":"對,像彰化榮家您說因為他是兩個後駐人數也許這個他就會調整到其他的這個床位去可是我看到這個巴德榮家我們來看看巴德他像他一般安養有分公費跟自費的部分而目前後駐的人數呢"},{"start":533.793,"end":548.591,"text":"公費的部分有31人自費的部分有21人一般民眾更是高達180人看起來床位非常不足我們再來看看夫妻安養的部分也是有分公費跟自費"},{"start":549.252,"end":570.544,"text":"可是像夫妻安養的部分我們公費有18床然後自費有120床那目前他可申請的床數這兩個夫妻安養不管公費跟自費加起來其實有69床是可以是空床的部分那這部分他們如何去做調整這沒有辦法去做調整"},{"start":571.505,"end":595.288,"text":"我看要候住像這個一般安養的部分候住的人數非常的高可是夫妻安養的部分呢空場率又這麼的高這沒有辦法做調整嗎這是我在出去是看到的這個這個問題好不好委員因為夫妻並同案子是夫妻進來一起住進來的對他是兩個床位嘛他是兩個因為我看他們的照片喔座長你看右邊這個如果開放給一般的"},{"start":596.409,"end":615.885,"text":"一般安養的話是否一般安養可以入住那你們現在一般安養都是單人房嗎全部都是單人房嗎他的空間比較大如果說我今天一個人住到夫妻房裡面他空間是比較大其他住單人房的會比較之下為什麼你可以住夫妻房"},{"start":616.525,"end":616.805,"text":"主任委員"},{"start":643.95,"end":668.826,"text":"沒床的就沒床,空床就空在那裡,我想這個部分是沒有辦法做調整。對,我們在做聯合調度,我們實際上從451床已經增加到1635床,就一般的民眾,已經不斷的滾動式的調整。那會按照委員的指導,我們會請各農家評估狀況,如果是可以適當做一些調節就調節,然後地區、區域的也可以做一些調整。"},{"start":671.015,"end":679.224,"text":"本席是希望就是說我們的資源因為我們一開始就是說資源共享那也能夠希望這個資源能夠充分被利用以上謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:23:24 - 09:34:46","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155266,"gazette":{"lineno":115,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時23分）謝謝主席，有請嚴主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：主委好。就如剛剛主委在業務報告所提到的，我們全臺有16所榮民之家，然後結合了4所榮總跟12所榮總分院的醫療資源來發展醫養合一的照護模式，本席所瞭解目前有8,782個床位，其中有1,621個床位是開放給一般社區的民眾入住來擴大資源的共享。剛剛主委也有提到，為了擴大榮院跟榮家照護的能量，所以目前我們板橋、八德等5所榮家正在增建失智床位，再來在鳳林、玉里、灣橋還有屏東的4所榮總分院，也都增建住宿式長照機構的床位，對於退輔會持續擴大榮院跟榮家的照護量能，本席是予以肯定，當然我們要維持照護的量能一定要有充足的人力。","我們看看這一個圖表，本席發現16所的榮民之家，像彰化、花蓮、馬蘭、屏東、佳里，我們可以發現它實際辦理業務人數占整體實有人數的比例，這5所榮家都低於60%。我們都知道榮民之家的住民絕大部分都是年紀比較大，然後可能還有一些失智、行動不便的這些住民，對於實際辦理業務人數不到60%，我們會不會覺得在人力方面不足呢？請問主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：謝謝委員指導，我們目前16所榮家、8,782床，目前的占床率是6,987將近有百分之八十，將近有八成。剛剛委員公布的是實際辦理業務人數占實有人數……"],["羅委員美玲：對，是照護人數。"],["嚴主任委員德發：我們這邊瞭解調查，現有護理師人力是402人，是符合老人福利機構設立的標準，就是護理人員隨時保持有1個人值班，然後養護跟失智1比20的配置；另外還有140名社工的人力，而這些目前來檢討設置的一個標準它是符合，而且甚至高過老人福利機構設立的標準，是都符合的。"],["羅委員美玲：所以您是覺得這個都符合標準？因為我們知道實際辦理業務的內容，包含了行政、醫事、藥事、護理跟社工人員，所以這些人員的配額低於60%，這其實是符合我們目前所有的標準，主委說的是這樣子嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，我們這邊的資料是護理師人力的一個配置，加上我們的社工人員有140人，這兩個數字加起來目前都是符合老人機構的標準。"],["羅委員美玲：所以目前並沒有人力不足的問題是不是？"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，人力都沒有問題。"],["羅委員美玲：人力這部分都沒有問題，所以……"],["嚴主任委員德發：委員剛剛指導的這張表，我們回去……"],["羅委員美玲：因為我有看到像板橋、臺北他們都有到70%，甚至以上，像八德榮家有將近80%，所以我現在看到的這幾家都是低於60%，比例上跟其他的榮家比是有一些落差的。如果像70%、80%的榮家實際辦理業務人數，他們這樣子的配置是怎麼樣的一個配置呢？他們是over了嗎？如果說我們這樣子是屬於比較充足的人力的話，那其他高達80%的人力配置是怎麼樣的人力配置呢？可以說明一下這當中的落差嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，報告委員，我請就養處處長跟您做一個詳細的說明。"],["周處長興國：委員好，我是就養養護處處長周興國。這個資料是去年我們評鑑的資料，我們委請外面的評鑑委員，依照老福機構的評鑑標準來評鑑，從去年開始評鑑委員認為事務人力是有缺，要儘快來補實，但是在各榮家運作上面整體來看，運作都是沒有問題的，他只是提醒我們補實人力，這段時間有關事務人力，我們儘快來補實相關的人力，以應榮家運作的需求。"],["羅委員美玲：所以目前為止，這些60%以下的榮家，剛剛主委的意思是說實際上沒有人力不足的問題嘛！如果這樣子講的話，剛剛處長講的話，跟主委所講的，可能會有一點點的出入。"],["周處長興國：我們的照服人力是沒有問題，因為榮家以照護為主。"],["羅委員美玲：你們的照服人力是採外包的是不是？用委外的方式嗎？"],["周處長興國：對，我們是勞務委外。"],["羅委員美玲：勞務委外，那有含在這裡面的人數嗎？"],["周處長興國：沒有含。"],["羅委員美玲：不含在裡面是不是？所以這部分，照顧的人數是委外的部分，不含在內？"],["周處長興國：對，委外，還有我們本身的護理師、護理人員，在照護工作執行是沒有問題的，這是事務工作執行的方面。"],["嚴主任委員德發：我跟委員報告的是護理師加上社工照顧的人力，而委員這個表是整個就業務、就事務面，所以這一塊我們還要再繼續去補實。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，好，瞭解。再來還有一點，提到占床率的部分，雖然說我們後來還是有開放一些床位讓一般的民眾來使用，可是在去年跟前年同期，到7月份為止，我們看到整體的床位，我記得在上個會期有跟退輔會討論過占床率的問題，當然我現在看到這個數據，去年跟今年相較，雖然有調整，可是我覺得整個占床率還是低於八成。像審計部跟監察院都有提出一些檢討，希望這個部分就占床率是不是可以有效提升。","我也看了兩份資料，舉個例子，像彰化榮家，榮民入住有分公費跟自費，目前都還是有一些空床，像公費的部分還有61床、自費還有16。可是我們看到，開放給一般民眾的部分其實還有候住人數，有2人在等待，因為是在同一個榮民之家，這個可以做調整嘛？像開放給一般民眾的是53床，目前入住也是53床，表示是滿床的狀態，還有2個人在等。可是我們看到給榮民的，不管是公費或自費，到目前為止是有床位的，這可以在院內做調整嗎？像彰化榮家就有這個狀況。"],["周處長興國：我跟您報告一下，我們每個禮拜都會檢討這個床位。就您講的，如果榮民沒有候住的狀況之下，一般民眾有候住，我們會把床位轉給一般民眾。那你可能說有2個床位，你看那個數據，也許他正在辦手續中，但是床位的調整我們每週都會做。"],["羅委員美玲：所以還是會做調整就對了。"],["周處長興國：對，希望資源能夠共享。"],["羅委員美玲：好。像彰化榮家，就您說的，因為是2個候住人數，也許這個就會調整到其他的床位去。可是我看到八德榮家，像它一般安養有分公費跟自費的部分，目前候住的人數，公費部分有31人、自費部分有21人，一般民眾更是高達180人，看起來床位非常不足。那我們再來看看它的夫妻安養部分，也有分公費跟自費，可是像夫妻安養的部分我們公費有18床、自費有120床，目前夫妻安養部分可申請的床數，公費跟自費加起來其實有69床是空床，這部分他們如何調整，沒有辦法去做調整嗎？我看像一般安養的部分，候住的人數非常高，可是夫妻安養的部分空床率又這麼高，沒有辦法做調整嗎？這是我在數據上看到的問題。"],["周處長興國：報告委員，因為夫妻併同安置是夫妻一起住進來的。"],["羅委員美玲：對，是兩個床位，我有看他們的照片。處長，你看右邊這個，如果開放給一般安養的話，這沒有辦法嗎？"],["周處長興國：他是符合一般安養可以入住，但是他……"],["羅委員美玲：所以你們現在一般安養都是單人房嗎？"],["周處長興國：對……"],["羅委員美玲：全部都是單人房嗎？"],["周處長興國：對，它的空間比較大，如果今天一個人住到夫妻房裡面，他的空間是比較大、坪數比較大，那其他住單人房的，比較之下會想為什麼你可以住夫妻房，那個空間比較大，那我這個單人房，我也要轉到夫妻房。"],["羅委員美玲：所以你們還是要維持住民必須是一人一間的方式嗎？"],["周處長興國：對，那我會把其他榮家有夫妻房的需求，可以轉到八德來，我們可以確認比如他排夫妻房沒有空缺，那我們可以……"],["羅委員美玲：你們會做這種調整嗎？"],["周處長興國：我們有確認說……"],["羅委員美玲：榮家跟榮家之間做比對，做個調整。"],["嚴主任委員德發：可以，我們週邊的榮家就會做調整。"],["羅委員美玲：因為我看到的數據是這樣。同一個像八德榮家，沒床的就沒床、空床就空在那裡，我想這個部分是沒有辦法做調整嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：對，我們再做聯合調度，實際上一般民眾的部分從451床已經增加到1,635床，已經不斷在滾動式調整，會按照委員的指導，我們會請各榮家評估狀況，如果適當做一些調節就調節，地區、區域的也可以做一些調整。"],["羅委員美玲：好，本席是希望就我們的資源，因為我們一開始就說資源共享，也希望這個資源能夠充分被利用。"],["嚴主任委員德發：是。"],["羅委員美玲：好。以上，謝謝。"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員，主委請回。接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":330,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","洪申翰","王定宇","黃仁","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","邱志偉"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00005"}}}