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{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 754.827, \"end\": 754.987, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 754.987, \"end\": 755.127, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 755.127, \"end\": 755.267, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 755.267, \"end\": 755.487, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 755.487, \"end\": 755.807, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 755.807, \"end\": 756.107, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 756.107, \"end\": 756.267, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 756.267, \"end\": 756.607, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 756.607, \"end\": 757.108, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 757.108, \"end\": 757.648, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 757.648, \"end\": 757.988, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 757.988, \"end\": 758.088, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 758.088, \"end\": 758.208, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 758.208, \"end\": 758.588, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 758.588, \"end\": 759.089, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 759.089, \"end\": 759.249, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 759.249, \"end\": 759.349, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 759.349, \"end\": 759.469, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 759.469, \"end\": 759.489, \"score\": 0.079}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,789 --> 00:00:30,988\n主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委我們有請吳主委好主委好主委今年5月的時候國科會跟環境部有辦國家氣候變遷科學報告2024現象衝擊跟調適的公開說明會本席非常重視因為這個是之前我們所謂任性台灣的其中一環也是我們國科會下面的重要計畫那其中就有提到是說未來全球暖化\n\n2\n00:00:31,488 --> 00:00:54,268\n台灣的夏天恐怕會高達7個月而且會有兩極化什麼意思呢就像是我們上個禮拜遇到的颱風一樣就是說強台的頻率這是你們的結論強台的頻率會變高淹水的事件會增加尤其過去50年來才發生的極端降雨事件未來可能每10年就會發生一次是不是\n\n3\n00:00:55,109 --> 00:01:10,408\n是,如果我們不努力去減碳的話是,你已經看到而且你講到減碳嘛我先強調這個重點這跟本席的北海岸這兩天我們看到明明颱風已經過去了北海岸強降雨那反而里長\n\n4\n00:01:11,429 --> 00:01:33,551\n當地的齊老里長他說住在那邊有人講說40年來沒有看過這樣的一個強降雨有人講說50年60年沒看過那得到的結論就是確實這一次的強降雨是非常極端的一個氣候那也跟你的一個結論不謀而合而且你結論裡面甚至講到是說未來如果暖化的話海平面上升造成海岸的\n\n5\n00:01:34,372 --> 00:01:58,379\n一煙面積增加雲林台南基隆新北會是最嚴重的幾個縣市好我們已經知道這個結論了但是我們要怎麼樣的預防我想這才是重點嘛對不對我們要瞭解這個狀況我們要怎麼樣去預防那其中有人就講是說在這一次的一個氣象署的一個氣象報告裡面其實給我們北海岸地區是沒有很精準的\n\n6\n00:01:58,899 --> 00:01:59,319\n主委,我想請教\n\n7\n00:02:21,550 --> 00:02:48,813\n面對這樣的一個狀況我們能夠怎麼樣來去做更好的因應或說更準確的告訴我們鄉親告訴我們台灣的民眾有可能有這樣的降雨要及早撤離要撤離及早因應要因應主委謝謝洪委員中央氣象署的這個預報跟我們現在災防中心的這個研究的投入其實也有相關那也包含我們太空中心在現在氣象衛星開始投入因應後甚至我們講說AI\n\n8\n00:02:49,974 --> 00:02:50,995\n我們昨天會有計算出來但沒有告訴我們新北鄉親\n\n9\n00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:37,188\n我請我們災防中心主任來回答一下我想中央應變中心開設的時候在前一天也就是10月3日大致上中央應變中心有發布所有的預警資料\n\n10\n00:03:38,349 --> 00:03:57,388\n在第13報及第14報所有的報告都有送到各個一級開設的地方政府當然也包括新北市當初10月3日早上9點半及10月3日下午3點所提出來的淹水都已經涵蓋了這些區域\n\n11\n00:03:57,868 --> 00:04:17,927\n但我現在講的是10月4日的強降雨啊是啊所以說10月3日是預報預警第二天10月4日的事情啊來主委主委很明顯的氣象署也好或說災害面中心有講但是你沒有講到那麼精確就是說它的強降雨的狀況\n\n12\n00:04:19,008 --> 00:04:45,565\n他是一整個幾個小時內把一整天你們講的這個降雨量給降下來所以他會發聲說造成是十一十二點以前他還是風平浪靜尤其那一天是大家看縣市長也覺得是說那一天已經過了颱風過了大家也都覺得颱風消失了所以說並沒有停班停課但突然間下午時間短時間降下一整天的雨量而造成衝擊性的災情\n\n13\n00:04:45,865 --> 00:05:02,835\n報告委員其實災害應變中心在當天並沒有撤除還是延續所以我們災防中心的那個計算一直都在進行當中是我現在講的是說你的計算持續進行但是就是沒有那麼精確以及沒有強降雨的部分告知\n\n14\n00:05:03,675 --> 00:05:26,427\n主委我認為說有告知啦但大家可能會比較忽視掉主委我說實在話我覺得是說這邊兩個部分啦一個是你告知的狀況不夠精準或說沒有辦法那麼準確的告知到是說到底是什麼時間點有那麼大的一個降雨我們大家共同的面臨第二個部分是對於我們的這個\n\n15\n00:05:28,028 --> 00:05:48,310\n計算的一個狀況能夠怎麼樣能夠更精確的去掌握好謝謝委員因為在你剛剛的一個簡報裡面本席特別聽了11分鐘裡面你講了18次的AI啊代表是說AI大家都很重視我們也很關心啊但重點是說AI怎麼樣實際的運用在我們每一個人的生活裡面並且真的看到問題解決問題\n\n16\n00:05:49,531 --> 00:06:12,612\n非常同意我們會加強在AI的投入希望把未來這個預測預測的解析度把它提升主委在這個部分裡面氣象署這邊是不是能夠再做一個更緊密的一個會議討論來了解說未來可以怎麼樣協助到地方政府讓地方政府能夠有更充裕的時間或說民眾有更充裕的時間來去了解相關的資訊是謝謝委員建議我們會朝這個方向進行\n\n17\n00:06:16,193 --> 00:06:34,597\n對,那另外本席再請教您也是總統府國家氣候變遷對應委員會的其中委員議員嘛對不對那最近環境部也好或是說在這個聚焦的會議裡面有已經聚焦到說2032年台灣減碳的新目標要提升到40%這個您知道\n\n18\n00:06:40,509 --> 00:07:05,849\n知道知道嘛對啊上一次我們在一樣在這個委員會我請教你說2028年的時候台灣有多少的發電是用火力發電你笑笑不敢沒有不願意正面回應啦八成發電嘛八成發電量都是火力發電嘛但現在我們喊出一個新目標叫做2032年要減碳40%我可以先請教您知不知道之前國發會有訂出台灣的目標2025年減碳要減到多少\n\n19\n00:07:10,302 --> 00:07:19,184\n2025年要減碳10%那您知道之前的目標2030年要減碳百分之多少嗎?也不清楚那您剛還講說我開宗明義先請教您說氣候變遷科技現象你講到最重點是減碳\n\n20\n00:07:33,359 --> 00:07:45,364\n你講到最重點是減碳嘛你說這個極端氣候的成因或背後的原因是因為碳排高嘛那減碳的部分那我們台灣現在2025年減碳10%環境部長已經公開承認了明年絕對達不到10%會跳票那2030年說要減碳25%正負1你覺得有可能達到嗎\n\n21\n00:07:58,533 --> 00:08:24,280\n我只能說我們要努力做啦那如果沒有達到勒我當然相信大家都很努力做啊你今年光說要跨部會淨零科技多少預算今年有一百將近一百二十億啦一百二十億一百三十億嘛對啊你每年跨部會預算一百二三十億的預算那你跟我們講是說定一個目標2025年已經跳票了2030年還有五年的時間25%\n\n22\n00:08:27,079 --> 00:08:38,667\n不知道答不答得到現在我要再畫一個新願景叫2032年百分之40我都不禁懷疑啊2032為什麼突然202520305年每5年檢討一次我覺得很合理啊突然講一個2032是怎麼樣總統大選幫下一任的就是幫2028年要選連任的時候再鋪牌那2032年百分之40答得到嗎\n\n23\n00:08:54,898 --> 00:08:59,720\n如果現在2025年10%達不到2030年25%不知道那2032年的40%我們這不是菜市場喊價買菜在那邊喊你加一點我減一點而是實際的作為啊那2028年火力發電佔8成以上我們就講啊跟國際趨勢背道而馳\n\n24\n00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:38,812\n那你認為火力發電都全開了我們沒有減少能源政策不改變的情況下我們還有什麼樣的錦囊妙計可以把現在生活不變的情況錦囊妙計我們又持續增加又有AI高科技半導體持續增加有發電量持續的上升我們有什麼錦囊妙計可以達到你所謂的25%或40%\n\n25\n00:09:41,974 --> 00:10:07,567\n國會這邊我們投入這個近年節能的這個技術的研發我們會持續也會協助政府來推動這個智慧電網讓這個能源的使用更有效率所以主委你沒有辦法回答說到底有什麼錦囊妙計因為你講這些都是現在進行是正在做但還是一樣我們看到碳排越來越高錦囊妙計在那我現在在想是說我都不知道說10月底有第二次的委員會\n\n26\n00:10:09,167 --> 00:10:36,236\n主委你也算是個科學人嘛所以我從科學角度好你從科學角度那你敢不敢講真話在第二次10月底賴清德總統要開的所謂的總統府國家氣候變稱對策委員會發言一下跟總統講說如果你現在能源政策不改變如果你現在跟國際趨勢背道而馳如果說我們還是一樣照現在的方式的話抱歉25%40%都是假的答不到\n\n27\n00:10:38,373 --> 00:11:00,525\n我們會承諾投入各種可能的綠能的技術的研發。看來您還是不敢面對呢。這不是我。好了,來,早位已經站起來了。最後30秒了。主委,總統也有講到一個新北123。賴金德總統之前說要推動淡海科學城本系列選區。\n\n28\n00:11:02,318 --> 00:11:23,274\n卓榮泰院長在6月29日來到淡水視察淡江大橋工程的時候也提到說要有淡海科學城並且國土署講說現在要把科學園區跟科技園區共同放在淡海新市鎮二期一區的開發還講說已經找了經濟部跟國科會邀地方共同規劃有沒有這件事\n\n29\n00:11:24,344 --> 00:11:47,489\n我們科學園區的規劃的部分的確有參與先期的參與經濟部跟國科會有沒有邀地方共同討論有沒有在著手進行有沒有想要達成賴清德總統跟卓派院長的政見主政是內政部主政內政部因為國土署開發嘛但是現在主要沒有錯內政部邀你們嘛但是你們是一個很大的推力嘛\n\n30\n00:11:50,378 --> 00:12:11,676\n我們在那邊還沒有推理因為那個地方如果說那個地方是傳統產業為主好可以那個地方不是傳統產業為主我必須要糾正您這句話因為賴金德總統和卓榮泰院長宣示的都是說淡海科學層並且希望能夠引進相關來講半導體或是比較高科技的部隊總統指示的我們一定會照辦\n\n31\n00:12:12,196 --> 00:12:39,489\n是,所以請會後給本席相關資料因為你今天的業務報告裡面花了很多篇幅在寫但是沒有提到任何賴清的總統和卓榮泰院長的一個證件要落實吧我們請會後吳主委再把相關的報告給我們的洪孟楷委員我會持續追因為這不僅是總統的承諾也是我們地方鄉親的期盼更是我之前2020年就提出來的證件所以也請我們國科會一定要重視謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1789\t30988\t主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委我們有請吳主委好 主委好 主委今年5月的時候國科會跟環境部有辦國家氣候變遷科學報告2024現象衝擊跟調適的公開說明會本席非常重視因為這個是之前我們所謂任性台灣的其中一環也是我們國科會下面的重要計畫那其中就有提到是說未來全球暖化\n31488\t54268\t台灣的夏天恐怕會高達7個月而且會有兩極化什麼意思呢就像是我們上個禮拜遇到的颱風一樣就是說強台的頻率這是你們的結論強台的頻率會變高淹水的事件會增加尤其過去50年來才發生的極端降雨事件未來可能每10年就會發生一次是不是\n55109\t70408\t是,如果我們不努力去減碳的話是,你已經看到而且你講到減碳嘛我先強調這個重點這跟本席的北海岸這兩天我們看到明明颱風已經過去了北海岸強降雨那反而里長\n71429\t93551\t當地的齊老里長他說住在那邊有人講說40年來沒有看過這樣的一個強降雨有人講說50年60年沒看過那得到的結論就是確實這一次的強降雨是非常極端的一個氣候那也跟你的一個結論不謀而合而且你結論裡面甚至講到是說未來如果暖化的話海平面上升造成海岸的\n94372\t118379\t一煙面積增加雲林台南基隆新北會是最嚴重的幾個縣市好我們已經知道這個結論了但是我們要怎麼樣的預防我想這才是重點嘛對不對我們要瞭解這個狀況我們要怎麼樣去預防那其中有人就講是說在這一次的一個氣象署的一個氣象報告裡面其實給我們北海岸地區是沒有很精準的\n118899\t119319\t主委,我想請教\n141550\t168813\t面對這樣的一個狀況我們能夠怎麼樣來去做更好的因應或說更準確的告訴我們鄉親告訴我們台灣的民眾有可能有這樣的降雨要及早撤離要撤離及早因應要因應主委謝謝洪委員中央氣象署的這個預報跟我們現在災防中心的這個研究的投入其實也有相關那也包含我們太空中心在現在氣象衛星開始投入因應後甚至我們講說AI\n169974\t170995\t我們昨天會有計算出來但沒有告訴我們新北鄉親\n202700\t217188\t我請我們災防中心主任來回答一下我想中央應變中心開設的時候在前一天也就是10月3日大致上中央應變中心有發布所有的預警資料\n218349\t237388\t在第13報及第14報所有的報告都有送到各個一級開設的地方政府當然也包括新北市當初10月3日早上9點半及10月3日下午3點所提出來的淹水都已經涵蓋了這些區域\n237868\t257927\t但我現在講的是10月4日的強降雨啊是啊 所以說10月3日是預報預警第二天10月4日的事情啊來 主委 主委 很明顯的 氣象署也好或說災害面中心有講但是你沒有講到那麼精確就是說它的強降雨的狀況\n259008\t285565\t他是一整個幾個小時內把一整天你們講的這個降雨量給降下來所以他會發聲說造成是十一十二點以前他還是風平浪靜尤其那一天是大家看縣市長也覺得是說那一天已經過了颱風過了大家也都覺得颱風消失了所以說並沒有停班停課但突然間下午時間短時間降下一整天的雨量而造成衝擊性的災情\n285865\t302835\t報告委員其實災害應變中心在當天並沒有撤除還是延續所以我們災防中心的那個計算一直都在進行當中是我現在講的是說你的計算持續進行但是就是沒有那麼精確以及沒有強降雨的部分告知\n303675\t326427\t主委 我認為說 有告知啦 但大家可能會比較忽視掉主委 我說實在話 我覺得是說這邊兩個部分啦 一個是你告知的狀況不夠精準或說沒有辦法那麼準確的告知到是說到底是什麼時間點有那麼大的一個降雨 我們大家共同的面臨 第二個部分是對於我們的這個\n328028\t348310\t計算的一個狀況能夠怎麼樣能夠更精確的去掌握好謝謝委員因為在你剛剛的一個簡報裡面本席特別聽了11分鐘裡面你講了18次的AI啊代表是說AI大家都很重視我們也很關心啊但重點是說AI怎麼樣實際的運用在我們每一個人的生活裡面並且真的看到問題解決問題\n349531\t372612\t非常同意我們會加強在AI的投入希望把未來這個預測預測的解析度把它提升主委在這個部分裡面氣象署這邊是不是能夠再做一個更緊密的一個會議討論來了解說未來可以怎麼樣協助到地方政府讓地方政府能夠有更充裕的時間或說民眾有更充裕的時間來去了解相關的資訊是謝謝委員建議我們會朝這個方向進行\n376193\t394597\t對,那另外本席再請教您也是總統府國家氣候變遷對應委員會的其中委員議員嘛對不對那最近環境部也好或是說在這個聚焦的會議裡面有已經聚焦到說2032年台灣減碳的新目標要提升到40%這個您知道\n400509\t425849\t知道 知道嘛 對啊上一次我們在一樣在這個委員會我請教你說2028年的時候台灣有多少的發電是用火力發電你笑笑不敢沒有不願意正面回應啦八成發電嘛八成發電量都是火力發電嘛但現在我們喊出一個新目標叫做2032年要減碳40%我可以先請教您知不知道之前國發會有訂出台灣的目標2025年減碳要減到多少\n430302\t439184\t2025年要減碳10%那您知道之前的目標2030年要減碳百分之多少嗎?也不清楚那您剛還講說我開宗明義先請教您說氣候變遷科技現象你講到最重點是減碳\n453359\t465364\t你講到最重點是減碳嘛你說這個極端氣候的成因或背後的原因是因為碳排高嘛那減碳的部分那我們台灣現在2025年減碳10%環境部長已經公開承認了明年絕對達不到10%會跳票那2030年說要減碳25%正負1你覺得有可能達到嗎\n478533\t504280\t我只能說我們要努力做啦那如果沒有達到勒我當然相信大家都很努力做啊你今年光說要跨部會淨零科技多少預算今年有一百將近一百二十億啦一百二十億一百三十億嘛對啊你每年跨部會預算一百二三十億的預算那你跟我們講是說定一個目標2025年已經跳票了2030年還有五年的時間25%\n507079\t518667\t不知道答不答得到現在我要再畫一個新願景叫2032年百分之40我都不禁懷疑啊2032為什麼突然202520305年每5年檢討一次我覺得很合理啊突然講一個2032是怎麼樣總統大選幫下一任的就是幫2028年要選連任的時候再鋪牌那2032年百分之40答得到嗎\n534898\t539720\t如果現在2025年10%達不到2030年25%不知道那2032年的40%我們這不是菜市場喊價買菜在那邊喊你加一點我減一點而是實際的作為啊那2028年火力發電佔8成以上我們就講啊跟國際趨勢背道而馳\n556260\t578812\t那你認為火力發電都全開了我們沒有減少能源政策不改變的情況下我們還有什麼樣的錦囊妙計可以把現在生活不變的情況錦囊妙計我們又持續增加又有AI高科技半導體持續增加有發電量持續的上升我們有什麼錦囊妙計可以達到你所謂的25%或40%\n581974\t607567\t國會這邊我們投入這個近年節能的這個技術的研發我們會持續也會協助政府來推動這個智慧電網讓這個能源的使用更有效率所以主委你沒有辦法回答說到底有什麼錦囊妙計因為你講這些都是現在進行是正在做但還是一樣我們看到碳排越來越高錦囊妙計在那我現在在想是說我都不知道說10月底有第二次的委員會\n609167\t636236\t主委你也算是個科學人嘛所以我從科學角度好你從科學角度那你敢不敢講真話在第二次10月底賴清德總統要開的所謂的總統府國家氣候變稱對策委員會發言一下跟總統講說如果你現在能源政策不改變如果你現在跟國際趨勢背道而馳如果說我們還是一樣照現在的方式的話抱歉25%40%都是假的答不到\n638373\t660525\t我們會承諾投入各種可能的綠能的技術的研發。看來您還是不敢面對呢。這不是我。好了,來,早位已經站起來了。最後30秒了。主委,總統也有講到一個新北123。賴金德總統之前說要推動淡海科學城本系列選區。\n662318\t683274\t卓榮泰院長在6月29日來到淡水視察淡江大橋工程的時候也提到說要有淡海科學城並且國土署講說現在要把科學園區跟科技園區共同放在淡海新市鎮二期一區的開發還講說已經找了經濟部跟國科會邀地方共同規劃有沒有這件事\n684344\t707489\t我們科學園區的規劃的部分的確有參與先期的參與經濟部跟國科會有沒有邀地方共同討論有沒有在著手進行有沒有想要達成賴清德總統跟卓派院長的政見主政是內政部主政內政部因為國土署開發嘛但是現在主要沒有錯內政部邀你們嘛但是你們是一個很大的推力嘛\n710378\t731676\t我們在那邊還沒有推理因為那個地方如果說那個地方是傳統產業為主好 可以那個地方不是傳統產業為主我必須要糾正您這句話因為賴金德總統和卓榮泰院長宣示的都是說淡海科學層並且希望能夠引進相關來講半導體或是比較高科技的部隊總統指示的我們一定會照辦\n732196\t759489\t是,所以請會後給本席相關資料因為你今天的業務報告裡面花了很多篇幅在寫但是沒有提到任何賴清的總統和卓榮泰院長的一個證件要落實吧我們請會後吳主委再把相關的報告給我們的洪孟楷委員我會持續追因為這不僅是總統的承諾也是我們地方鄉親的期盼更是我之前2020年就提出來的證件所以也請我們國科會一定要重視謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委我們有請吳主委好 主委好 主委今年5月的時候國科會跟環境部有辦國家氣候變遷科學報告2024現象衝擊跟調適的公開說明會本席非常重視因為這個是之前我們所謂任性台灣的其中一環也是我們國科會下面的重要計畫那其中就有提到是說未來全球暖化\n台灣的夏天恐怕會高達7個月而且會有兩極化什麼意思呢就像是我們上個禮拜遇到的颱風一樣就是說強台的頻率這是你們的結論強台的頻率會變高淹水的事件會增加尤其過去50年來才發生的極端降雨事件未來可能每10年就會發生一次是不是\n是,如果我們不努力去減碳的話是,你已經看到而且你講到減碳嘛我先強調這個重點這跟本席的北海岸這兩天我們看到明明颱風已經過去了北海岸強降雨那反而里長\n當地的齊老里長他說住在那邊有人講說40年來沒有看過這樣的一個強降雨有人講說50年60年沒看過那得到的結論就是確實這一次的強降雨是非常極端的一個氣候那也跟你的一個結論不謀而合而且你結論裡面甚至講到是說未來如果暖化的話海平面上升造成海岸的\n一煙面積增加雲林台南基隆新北會是最嚴重的幾個縣市好我們已經知道這個結論了但是我們要怎麼樣的預防我想這才是重點嘛對不對我們要瞭解這個狀況我們要怎麼樣去預防那其中有人就講是說在這一次的一個氣象署的一個氣象報告裡面其實給我們北海岸地區是沒有很精準的\n主委,我想請教\n面對這樣的一個狀況我們能夠怎麼樣來去做更好的因應或說更準確的告訴我們鄉親告訴我們台灣的民眾有可能有這樣的降雨要及早撤離要撤離及早因應要因應主委謝謝洪委員中央氣象署的這個預報跟我們現在災防中心的這個研究的投入其實也有相關那也包含我們太空中心在現在氣象衛星開始投入因應後甚至我們講說AI\n我們昨天會有計算出來但沒有告訴我們新北鄉親\n我請我們災防中心主任來回答一下我想中央應變中心開設的時候在前一天也就是10月3日大致上中央應變中心有發布所有的預警資料\n在第13報及第14報所有的報告都有送到各個一級開設的地方政府當然也包括新北市當初10月3日早上9點半及10月3日下午3點所提出來的淹水都已經涵蓋了這些區域\n但我現在講的是10月4日的強降雨啊是啊 所以說10月3日是預報預警第二天10月4日的事情啊來 主委 主委 很明顯的 氣象署也好或說災害面中心有講但是你沒有講到那麼精確就是說它的強降雨的狀況\n他是一整個幾個小時內把一整天你們講的這個降雨量給降下來所以他會發聲說造成是十一十二點以前他還是風平浪靜尤其那一天是大家看縣市長也覺得是說那一天已經過了颱風過了大家也都覺得颱風消失了所以說並沒有停班停課但突然間下午時間短時間降下一整天的雨量而造成衝擊性的災情\n報告委員其實災害應變中心在當天並沒有撤除還是延續所以我們災防中心的那個計算一直都在進行當中是我現在講的是說你的計算持續進行但是就是沒有那麼精確以及沒有強降雨的部分告知\n主委 我認為說 有告知啦 但大家可能會比較忽視掉主委 我說實在話 我覺得是說這邊兩個部分啦 一個是你告知的狀況不夠精準或說沒有辦法那麼準確的告知到是說到底是什麼時間點有那麼大的一個降雨 我們大家共同的面臨 第二個部分是對於我們的這個\n計算的一個狀況能夠怎麼樣能夠更精確的去掌握好謝謝委員因為在你剛剛的一個簡報裡面本席特別聽了11分鐘裡面你講了18次的AI啊代表是說AI大家都很重視我們也很關心啊但重點是說AI怎麼樣實際的運用在我們每一個人的生活裡面並且真的看到問題解決問題\n非常同意我們會加強在AI的投入希望把未來這個預測預測的解析度把它提升主委在這個部分裡面氣象署這邊是不是能夠再做一個更緊密的一個會議討論來了解說未來可以怎麼樣協助到地方政府讓地方政府能夠有更充裕的時間或說民眾有更充裕的時間來去了解相關的資訊是謝謝委員建議我們會朝這個方向進行\n對,那另外本席再請教您也是總統府國家氣候變遷對應委員會的其中委員議員嘛對不對那最近環境部也好或是說在這個聚焦的會議裡面有已經聚焦到說2032年台灣減碳的新目標要提升到40%這個您知道\n知道 知道嘛 對啊上一次我們在一樣在這個委員會我請教你說2028年的時候台灣有多少的發電是用火力發電你笑笑不敢沒有不願意正面回應啦八成發電嘛八成發電量都是火力發電嘛但現在我們喊出一個新目標叫做2032年要減碳40%我可以先請教您知不知道之前國發會有訂出台灣的目標2025年減碳要減到多少\n2025年要減碳10%那您知道之前的目標2030年要減碳百分之多少嗎?也不清楚那您剛還講說我開宗明義先請教您說氣候變遷科技現象你講到最重點是減碳\n你講到最重點是減碳嘛你說這個極端氣候的成因或背後的原因是因為碳排高嘛那減碳的部分那我們台灣現在2025年減碳10%環境部長已經公開承認了明年絕對達不到10%會跳票那2030年說要減碳25%正負1你覺得有可能達到嗎\n我只能說我們要努力做啦那如果沒有達到勒我當然相信大家都很努力做啊你今年光說要跨部會淨零科技多少預算今年有一百將近一百二十億啦一百二十億一百三十億嘛對啊你每年跨部會預算一百二三十億的預算那你跟我們講是說定一個目標2025年已經跳票了2030年還有五年的時間25%\n不知道答不答得到現在我要再畫一個新願景叫2032年百分之40我都不禁懷疑啊2032為什麼突然202520305年每5年檢討一次我覺得很合理啊突然講一個2032是怎麼樣總統大選幫下一任的就是幫2028年要選連任的時候再鋪牌那2032年百分之40答得到嗎\n如果現在2025年10%達不到2030年25%不知道那2032年的40%我們這不是菜市場喊價買菜在那邊喊你加一點我減一點而是實際的作為啊那2028年火力發電佔8成以上我們就講啊跟國際趨勢背道而馳\n那你認為火力發電都全開了我們沒有減少能源政策不改變的情況下我們還有什麼樣的錦囊妙計可以把現在生活不變的情況錦囊妙計我們又持續增加又有AI高科技半導體持續增加有發電量持續的上升我們有什麼錦囊妙計可以達到你所謂的25%或40%\n國會這邊我們投入這個近年節能的這個技術的研發我們會持續也會協助政府來推動這個智慧電網讓這個能源的使用更有效率所以主委你沒有辦法回答說到底有什麼錦囊妙計因為你講這些都是現在進行是正在做但還是一樣我們看到碳排越來越高錦囊妙計在那我現在在想是說我都不知道說10月底有第二次的委員會\n主委你也算是個科學人嘛所以我從科學角度好你從科學角度那你敢不敢講真話在第二次10月底賴清德總統要開的所謂的總統府國家氣候變稱對策委員會發言一下跟總統講說如果你現在能源政策不改變如果你現在跟國際趨勢背道而馳如果說我們還是一樣照現在的方式的話抱歉25%40%都是假的答不到\n我們會承諾投入各種可能的綠能的技術的研發。看來您還是不敢面對呢。這不是我。好了,來,早位已經站起來了。最後30秒了。主委,總統也有講到一個新北123。賴金德總統之前說要推動淡海科學城本系列選區。\n卓榮泰院長在6月29日來到淡水視察淡江大橋工程的時候也提到說要有淡海科學城並且國土署講說現在要把科學園區跟科技園區共同放在淡海新市鎮二期一區的開發還講說已經找了經濟部跟國科會邀地方共同規劃有沒有這件事\n我們科學園區的規劃的部分的確有參與先期的參與經濟部跟國科會有沒有邀地方共同討論有沒有在著手進行有沒有想要達成賴清德總統跟卓派院長的政見主政是內政部主政內政部因為國土署開發嘛但是現在主要沒有錯內政部邀你們嘛但是你們是一個很大的推力嘛\n我們在那邊還沒有推理因為那個地方如果說那個地方是傳統產業為主好 可以那個地方不是傳統產業為主我必須要糾正您這句話因為賴金德總統和卓榮泰院長宣示的都是說淡海科學層並且希望能夠引進相關來講半導體或是比較高科技的部隊總統指示的我們一定會照辦\n是,所以請會後給本席相關資料因為你今天的業務報告裡面花了很多篇幅在寫但是沒有提到任何賴清的總統和卓榮泰院長的一個證件要落實吧我們請會後吳主委再把相關的報告給我們的洪孟楷委員我會持續追因為這不僅是總統的承諾也是我們地方鄉親的期盼更是我之前2020年就提出來的證件所以也請我們國科會一定要重視謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.789 --> 00:30.988\n主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委我們有請吳主委好主委好主委今年5月的時候國科會跟環境部有辦國家氣候變遷科學報告2024現象衝擊跟調適的公開說明會本席非常重視因為這個是之前我們所謂任性台灣的其中一環也是我們國科會下面的重要計畫那其中就有提到是說未來全球暖化\n\n00:31.488 --> 00:54.268\n台灣的夏天恐怕會高達7個月而且會有兩極化什麼意思呢就像是我們上個禮拜遇到的颱風一樣就是說強台的頻率這是你們的結論強台的頻率會變高淹水的事件會增加尤其過去50年來才發生的極端降雨事件未來可能每10年就會發生一次是不是\n\n00:55.109 --> 01:10.408\n是,如果我們不努力去減碳的話是,你已經看到而且你講到減碳嘛我先強調這個重點這跟本席的北海岸這兩天我們看到明明颱風已經過去了北海岸強降雨那反而里長\n\n01:11.429 --> 01:33.551\n當地的齊老里長他說住在那邊有人講說40年來沒有看過這樣的一個強降雨有人講說50年60年沒看過那得到的結論就是確實這一次的強降雨是非常極端的一個氣候那也跟你的一個結論不謀而合而且你結論裡面甚至講到是說未來如果暖化的話海平面上升造成海岸的\n\n01:34.372 --> 01:58.379\n一煙面積增加雲林台南基隆新北會是最嚴重的幾個縣市好我們已經知道這個結論了但是我們要怎麼樣的預防我想這才是重點嘛對不對我們要瞭解這個狀況我們要怎麼樣去預防那其中有人就講是說在這一次的一個氣象署的一個氣象報告裡面其實給我們北海岸地區是沒有很精準的\n\n01:58.899 --> 01:59.319\n主委,我想請教\n\n02:21.550 --> 02:48.813\n面對這樣的一個狀況我們能夠怎麼樣來去做更好的因應或說更準確的告訴我們鄉親告訴我們台灣的民眾有可能有這樣的降雨要及早撤離要撤離及早因應要因應主委謝謝洪委員中央氣象署的這個預報跟我們現在災防中心的這個研究的投入其實也有相關那也包含我們太空中心在現在氣象衛星開始投入因應後甚至我們講說AI\n\n02:49.974 --> 02:50.995\n我們昨天會有計算出來但沒有告訴我們新北鄉親\n\n03:22.700 --> 03:37.188\n我請我們災防中心主任來回答一下我想中央應變中心開設的時候在前一天也就是10月3日大致上中央應變中心有發布所有的預警資料\n\n03:38.349 --> 03:57.388\n在第13報及第14報所有的報告都有送到各個一級開設的地方政府當然也包括新北市當初10月3日早上9點半及10月3日下午3點所提出來的淹水都已經涵蓋了這些區域\n\n03:57.868 --> 04:17.927\n但我現在講的是10月4日的強降雨啊是啊所以說10月3日是預報預警第二天10月4日的事情啊來主委主委很明顯的氣象署也好或說災害面中心有講但是你沒有講到那麼精確就是說它的強降雨的狀況\n\n04:19.008 --> 04:45.565\n他是一整個幾個小時內把一整天你們講的這個降雨量給降下來所以他會發聲說造成是十一十二點以前他還是風平浪靜尤其那一天是大家看縣市長也覺得是說那一天已經過了颱風過了大家也都覺得颱風消失了所以說並沒有停班停課但突然間下午時間短時間降下一整天的雨量而造成衝擊性的災情\n\n04:45.865 --> 05:02.835\n報告委員其實災害應變中心在當天並沒有撤除還是延續所以我們災防中心的那個計算一直都在進行當中是我現在講的是說你的計算持續進行但是就是沒有那麼精確以及沒有強降雨的部分告知\n\n05:03.675 --> 05:26.427\n主委我認為說有告知啦但大家可能會比較忽視掉主委我說實在話我覺得是說這邊兩個部分啦一個是你告知的狀況不夠精準或說沒有辦法那麼準確的告知到是說到底是什麼時間點有那麼大的一個降雨我們大家共同的面臨第二個部分是對於我們的這個\n\n05:28.028 --> 05:48.310\n計算的一個狀況能夠怎麼樣能夠更精確的去掌握好謝謝委員因為在你剛剛的一個簡報裡面本席特別聽了11分鐘裡面你講了18次的AI啊代表是說AI大家都很重視我們也很關心啊但重點是說AI怎麼樣實際的運用在我們每一個人的生活裡面並且真的看到問題解決問題\n\n05:49.531 --> 06:12.612\n非常同意我們會加強在AI的投入希望把未來這個預測預測的解析度把它提升主委在這個部分裡面氣象署這邊是不是能夠再做一個更緊密的一個會議討論來了解說未來可以怎麼樣協助到地方政府讓地方政府能夠有更充裕的時間或說民眾有更充裕的時間來去了解相關的資訊是謝謝委員建議我們會朝這個方向進行\n\n06:16.193 --> 06:34.597\n對,那另外本席再請教您也是總統府國家氣候變遷對應委員會的其中委員議員嘛對不對那最近環境部也好或是說在這個聚焦的會議裡面有已經聚焦到說2032年台灣減碳的新目標要提升到40%這個您知道\n\n06:40.509 --> 07:05.849\n知道知道嘛對啊上一次我們在一樣在這個委員會我請教你說2028年的時候台灣有多少的發電是用火力發電你笑笑不敢沒有不願意正面回應啦八成發電嘛八成發電量都是火力發電嘛但現在我們喊出一個新目標叫做2032年要減碳40%我可以先請教您知不知道之前國發會有訂出台灣的目標2025年減碳要減到多少\n\n07:10.302 --> 07:19.184\n2025年要減碳10%那您知道之前的目標2030年要減碳百分之多少嗎?也不清楚那您剛還講說我開宗明義先請教您說氣候變遷科技現象你講到最重點是減碳\n\n07:33.359 --> 07:45.364\n你講到最重點是減碳嘛你說這個極端氣候的成因或背後的原因是因為碳排高嘛那減碳的部分那我們台灣現在2025年減碳10%環境部長已經公開承認了明年絕對達不到10%會跳票那2030年說要減碳25%正負1你覺得有可能達到嗎\n\n07:58.533 --> 08:24.280\n我只能說我們要努力做啦那如果沒有達到勒我當然相信大家都很努力做啊你今年光說要跨部會淨零科技多少預算今年有一百將近一百二十億啦一百二十億一百三十億嘛對啊你每年跨部會預算一百二三十億的預算那你跟我們講是說定一個目標2025年已經跳票了2030年還有五年的時間25%\n\n08:27.079 --> 08:38.667\n不知道答不答得到現在我要再畫一個新願景叫2032年百分之40我都不禁懷疑啊2032為什麼突然202520305年每5年檢討一次我覺得很合理啊突然講一個2032是怎麼樣總統大選幫下一任的就是幫2028年要選連任的時候再鋪牌那2032年百分之40答得到嗎\n\n08:54.898 --> 08:59.720\n如果現在2025年10%達不到2030年25%不知道那2032年的40%我們這不是菜市場喊價買菜在那邊喊你加一點我減一點而是實際的作為啊那2028年火力發電佔8成以上我們就講啊跟國際趨勢背道而馳\n\n09:16.260 --> 09:38.812\n那你認為火力發電都全開了我們沒有減少能源政策不改變的情況下我們還有什麼樣的錦囊妙計可以把現在生活不變的情況錦囊妙計我們又持續增加又有AI高科技半導體持續增加有發電量持續的上升我們有什麼錦囊妙計可以達到你所謂的25%或40%\n\n09:41.974 --> 10:07.567\n國會這邊我們投入這個近年節能的這個技術的研發我們會持續也會協助政府來推動這個智慧電網讓這個能源的使用更有效率所以主委你沒有辦法回答說到底有什麼錦囊妙計因為你講這些都是現在進行是正在做但還是一樣我們看到碳排越來越高錦囊妙計在那我現在在想是說我都不知道說10月底有第二次的委員會\n\n10:09.167 --> 10:36.236\n主委你也算是個科學人嘛所以我從科學角度好你從科學角度那你敢不敢講真話在第二次10月底賴清德總統要開的所謂的總統府國家氣候變稱對策委員會發言一下跟總統講說如果你現在能源政策不改變如果你現在跟國際趨勢背道而馳如果說我們還是一樣照現在的方式的話抱歉25%40%都是假的答不到\n\n10:38.373 --> 11:00.525\n我們會承諾投入各種可能的綠能的技術的研發。看來您還是不敢面對呢。這不是我。好了,來,早位已經站起來了。最後30秒了。主委,總統也有講到一個新北123。賴金德總統之前說要推動淡海科學城本系列選區。\n\n11:02.318 --> 11:23.274\n卓榮泰院長在6月29日來到淡水視察淡江大橋工程的時候也提到說要有淡海科學城並且國土署講說現在要把科學園區跟科技園區共同放在淡海新市鎮二期一區的開發還講說已經找了經濟部跟國科會邀地方共同規劃有沒有這件事\n\n11:24.344 --> 11:47.489\n我們科學園區的規劃的部分的確有參與先期的參與經濟部跟國科會有沒有邀地方共同討論有沒有在著手進行有沒有想要達成賴清德總統跟卓派院長的政見主政是內政部主政內政部因為國土署開發嘛但是現在主要沒有錯內政部邀你們嘛但是你們是一個很大的推力嘛\n\n11:50.378 --> 12:11.676\n我們在那邊還沒有推理因為那個地方如果說那個地方是傳統產業為主好可以那個地方不是傳統產業為主我必須要糾正您這句話因為賴金德總統和卓榮泰院長宣示的都是說淡海科學層並且希望能夠引進相關來講半導體或是比較高科技的部隊總統指示的我們一定會照辦\n\n12:12.196 --> 12:39.489\n是,所以請會後給本席相關資料因為你今天的業務報告裡面花了很多篇幅在寫但是沒有提到任何賴清的總統和卓榮泰院長的一個證件要落實吧我們請會後吳主委再把相關的報告給我們的洪孟楷委員我會持續追因為這不僅是總統的承諾也是我們地方鄉親的期盼更是我之前2020年就提出來的證件所以也請我們國科會一定要重視謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.789,"end":30.988,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委我們有請吳主委好 主委好 主委今年5月的時候國科會跟環境部有辦國家氣候變遷科學報告2024現象衝擊跟調適的公開說明會本席非常重視因為這個是之前我們所謂任性台灣的其中一環也是我們國科會下面的重要計畫那其中就有提到是說未來全球暖化"},{"start":31.488,"end":54.268,"text":"台灣的夏天恐怕會高達7個月而且會有兩極化什麼意思呢就像是我們上個禮拜遇到的颱風一樣就是說強台的頻率這是你們的結論強台的頻率會變高淹水的事件會增加尤其過去50年來才發生的極端降雨事件未來可能每10年就會發生一次是不是"},{"start":55.109,"end":70.408,"text":"是,如果我們不努力去減碳的話是,你已經看到而且你講到減碳嘛我先強調這個重點這跟本席的北海岸這兩天我們看到明明颱風已經過去了北海岸強降雨那反而里長"},{"start":71.429,"end":93.551,"text":"當地的齊老里長他說住在那邊有人講說40年來沒有看過這樣的一個強降雨有人講說50年60年沒看過那得到的結論就是確實這一次的強降雨是非常極端的一個氣候那也跟你的一個結論不謀而合而且你結論裡面甚至講到是說未來如果暖化的話海平面上升造成海岸的"},{"start":94.372,"end":118.379,"text":"一煙面積增加雲林台南基隆新北會是最嚴重的幾個縣市好我們已經知道這個結論了但是我們要怎麼樣的預防我想這才是重點嘛對不對我們要瞭解這個狀況我們要怎麼樣去預防那其中有人就講是說在這一次的一個氣象署的一個氣象報告裡面其實給我們北海岸地區是沒有很精準的"},{"start":118.899,"end":119.319,"text":"主委,我想請教"},{"start":141.55,"end":168.813,"text":"面對這樣的一個狀況我們能夠怎麼樣來去做更好的因應或說更準確的告訴我們鄉親告訴我們台灣的民眾有可能有這樣的降雨要及早撤離要撤離及早因應要因應主委謝謝洪委員中央氣象署的這個預報跟我們現在災防中心的這個研究的投入其實也有相關那也包含我們太空中心在現在氣象衛星開始投入因應後甚至我們講說AI"},{"start":169.974,"end":170.995,"text":"我們昨天會有計算出來但沒有告訴我們新北鄉親"},{"start":202.7,"end":217.188,"text":"我請我們災防中心主任來回答一下我想中央應變中心開設的時候在前一天也就是10月3日大致上中央應變中心有發布所有的預警資料"},{"start":218.349,"end":237.388,"text":"在第13報及第14報所有的報告都有送到各個一級開設的地方政府當然也包括新北市當初10月3日早上9點半及10月3日下午3點所提出來的淹水都已經涵蓋了這些區域"},{"start":237.868,"end":257.927,"text":"但我現在講的是10月4日的強降雨啊是啊 所以說10月3日是預報預警第二天10月4日的事情啊來 主委 主委 很明顯的 氣象署也好或說災害面中心有講但是你沒有講到那麼精確就是說它的強降雨的狀況"},{"start":259.008,"end":285.565,"text":"他是一整個幾個小時內把一整天你們講的這個降雨量給降下來所以他會發聲說造成是十一十二點以前他還是風平浪靜尤其那一天是大家看縣市長也覺得是說那一天已經過了颱風過了大家也都覺得颱風消失了所以說並沒有停班停課但突然間下午時間短時間降下一整天的雨量而造成衝擊性的災情"},{"start":285.865,"end":302.835,"text":"報告委員其實災害應變中心在當天並沒有撤除還是延續所以我們災防中心的那個計算一直都在進行當中是我現在講的是說你的計算持續進行但是就是沒有那麼精確以及沒有強降雨的部分告知"},{"start":303.675,"end":326.427,"text":"主委 我認為說 有告知啦 但大家可能會比較忽視掉主委 我說實在話 我覺得是說這邊兩個部分啦 一個是你告知的狀況不夠精準或說沒有辦法那麼準確的告知到是說到底是什麼時間點有那麼大的一個降雨 我們大家共同的面臨 第二個部分是對於我們的這個"},{"start":328.028,"end":348.31,"text":"計算的一個狀況能夠怎麼樣能夠更精確的去掌握好謝謝委員因為在你剛剛的一個簡報裡面本席特別聽了11分鐘裡面你講了18次的AI啊代表是說AI大家都很重視我們也很關心啊但重點是說AI怎麼樣實際的運用在我們每一個人的生活裡面並且真的看到問題解決問題"},{"start":349.531,"end":372.612,"text":"非常同意我們會加強在AI的投入希望把未來這個預測預測的解析度把它提升主委在這個部分裡面氣象署這邊是不是能夠再做一個更緊密的一個會議討論來了解說未來可以怎麼樣協助到地方政府讓地方政府能夠有更充裕的時間或說民眾有更充裕的時間來去了解相關的資訊是謝謝委員建議我們會朝這個方向進行"},{"start":376.193,"end":394.597,"text":"對,那另外本席再請教您也是總統府國家氣候變遷對應委員會的其中委員議員嘛對不對那最近環境部也好或是說在這個聚焦的會議裡面有已經聚焦到說2032年台灣減碳的新目標要提升到40%這個您知道"},{"start":400.509,"end":425.849,"text":"知道 知道嘛 對啊上一次我們在一樣在這個委員會我請教你說2028年的時候台灣有多少的發電是用火力發電你笑笑不敢沒有不願意正面回應啦八成發電嘛八成發電量都是火力發電嘛但現在我們喊出一個新目標叫做2032年要減碳40%我可以先請教您知不知道之前國發會有訂出台灣的目標2025年減碳要減到多少"},{"start":430.302,"end":439.184,"text":"2025年要減碳10%那您知道之前的目標2030年要減碳百分之多少嗎?也不清楚那您剛還講說我開宗明義先請教您說氣候變遷科技現象你講到最重點是減碳"},{"start":453.359,"end":465.364,"text":"你講到最重點是減碳嘛你說這個極端氣候的成因或背後的原因是因為碳排高嘛那減碳的部分那我們台灣現在2025年減碳10%環境部長已經公開承認了明年絕對達不到10%會跳票那2030年說要減碳25%正負1你覺得有可能達到嗎"},{"start":478.533,"end":504.28,"text":"我只能說我們要努力做啦那如果沒有達到勒我當然相信大家都很努力做啊你今年光說要跨部會淨零科技多少預算今年有一百將近一百二十億啦一百二十億一百三十億嘛對啊你每年跨部會預算一百二三十億的預算那你跟我們講是說定一個目標2025年已經跳票了2030年還有五年的時間25%"},{"start":507.079,"end":518.667,"text":"不知道答不答得到現在我要再畫一個新願景叫2032年百分之40我都不禁懷疑啊2032為什麼突然202520305年每5年檢討一次我覺得很合理啊突然講一個2032是怎麼樣總統大選幫下一任的就是幫2028年要選連任的時候再鋪牌那2032年百分之40答得到嗎"},{"start":534.898,"end":539.72,"text":"如果現在2025年10%達不到2030年25%不知道那2032年的40%我們這不是菜市場喊價買菜在那邊喊你加一點我減一點而是實際的作為啊那2028年火力發電佔8成以上我們就講啊跟國際趨勢背道而馳"},{"start":556.26,"end":578.812,"text":"那你認為火力發電都全開了我們沒有減少能源政策不改變的情況下我們還有什麼樣的錦囊妙計可以把現在生活不變的情況錦囊妙計我們又持續增加又有AI高科技半導體持續增加有發電量持續的上升我們有什麼錦囊妙計可以達到你所謂的25%或40%"},{"start":581.974,"end":607.567,"text":"國會這邊我們投入這個近年節能的這個技術的研發我們會持續也會協助政府來推動這個智慧電網讓這個能源的使用更有效率所以主委你沒有辦法回答說到底有什麼錦囊妙計因為你講這些都是現在進行是正在做但還是一樣我們看到碳排越來越高錦囊妙計在那我現在在想是說我都不知道說10月底有第二次的委員會"},{"start":609.167,"end":636.236,"text":"主委你也算是個科學人嘛所以我從科學角度好你從科學角度那你敢不敢講真話在第二次10月底賴清德總統要開的所謂的總統府國家氣候變稱對策委員會發言一下跟總統講說如果你現在能源政策不改變如果你現在跟國際趨勢背道而馳如果說我們還是一樣照現在的方式的話抱歉25%40%都是假的答不到"},{"start":638.373,"end":660.525,"text":"我們會承諾投入各種可能的綠能的技術的研發。看來您還是不敢面對呢。這不是我。好了,來,早位已經站起來了。最後30秒了。主委,總統也有講到一個新北123。賴金德總統之前說要推動淡海科學城本系列選區。"},{"start":662.318,"end":683.274,"text":"卓榮泰院長在6月29日來到淡水視察淡江大橋工程的時候也提到說要有淡海科學城並且國土署講說現在要把科學園區跟科技園區共同放在淡海新市鎮二期一區的開發還講說已經找了經濟部跟國科會邀地方共同規劃有沒有這件事"},{"start":684.344,"end":707.489,"text":"我們科學園區的規劃的部分的確有參與先期的參與經濟部跟國科會有沒有邀地方共同討論有沒有在著手進行有沒有想要達成賴清德總統跟卓派院長的政見主政是內政部主政內政部因為國土署開發嘛但是現在主要沒有錯內政部邀你們嘛但是你們是一個很大的推力嘛"},{"start":710.378,"end":731.676,"text":"我們在那邊還沒有推理因為那個地方如果說那個地方是傳統產業為主好 可以那個地方不是傳統產業為主我必須要糾正您這句話因為賴金德總統和卓榮泰院長宣示的都是說淡海科學層並且希望能夠引進相關來講半導體或是比較高科技的部隊總統指示的我們一定會照辦"},{"start":732.196,"end":759.489,"text":"是,所以請會後給本席相關資料因為你今天的業務報告裡面花了很多篇幅在寫但是沒有提到任何賴清的總統和卓榮泰院長的一個證件要落實吧我們請會後吳主委再把相關的報告給我們的洪孟楷委員我會持續追因為這不僅是總統的承諾也是我們地方鄉親的期盼更是我之前2020年就提出來的證件所以也請我們國科會一定要重視謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:31:11 - 09:43:56","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155270,"gazette":{"lineno":119,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時31分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請吳主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。主委，今年5月的時候，國科會跟環境部有辦「國家氣候變遷科學報告2024：現象、衝擊與調適」公開說明會，本席非常重視，因為這個是之前所謂韌性臺灣的其中一環，也是國科會下面的重要計畫，其中就有提到未來隨著全球暖化，臺灣的夏天恐怕會高達7個月，而且會有兩極化，什麼意思呢？就像是我們上個禮拜遇到的颱風一樣。你們的結論是，強颱的頻率會變高，淹水的事件會增加，尤其過去50年來才發生的極端降雨事件，未來可能每10年就會發生一次，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，如果我們不努力去減碳的話。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，你已經看到，而且你講到減碳。我先強調這個重點，本席的選區北海岸這兩天我們看到明明颱風已經過去了，北海岸卻出現強降雨，反而當地的耆老、里長有人說住在那邊40年來沒有看過這樣的強降雨，有人說50年、60年沒看過，得到的結論就是確實這一次的強降雨是非常極端的氣候，也跟你們的結論不謀而合。而且你們的結論裡面甚至講到未來如果暖化的話，海平面上升造成海岸的易淹面積增加，雲林、臺南、基隆、新北會是最嚴重的幾個縣市。","我們已經知道這個結論了，但是我們要怎麼樣預防，我想這才是重點，對不對？我們要了解這個狀況、我們要怎麼樣去預防。其中有人就說，在這一次氣象署的氣象報告裡面，其實給我們北海岸地區是沒有很精準的，尤其是上個禮拜五，明明到上午以前都沒有說有那麼大的降雨量，但突然12點一過，我們看之後後續的報告，降雨量的數字突然在12點的時候暴升、整個拉高，然後就沒有停了，一直連下四、五個小時的降雨。主委，我想請教，面對這樣的狀況，我們能夠怎麼樣去做更好的因應？或是更準確地告訴我們鄉親、告訴臺灣的民眾有可能有這樣的降雨，讓需要及早撤離的要撤離、及早因應的要因應？主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝洪委員。中央氣象署的預報跟現在災防中心研究的投入其實也有相關，也包含太空中心在現在氣象衛星開始投入營運以後……"],["洪委員孟楷：甚至我們說AI、超級電腦怎麼樣協助我們的算力，更準確地推估降雨量、鋒面、颱風的路徑等等，是吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我們正在積極做這件事情。這一次新北在東北角強降雨的狀況，其實我們那個時候有計算出來，雖然還是有一點點誤差，但是那個強降雨因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：有計算出來？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有計算出來……"],["洪委員孟楷：國科會有計算出來，但沒有告訴我們新北鄉親？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我請災防中心主任來回答一下。"],["陳主任宏宇：洪委員好。我想中央應變中心開設的時候，在前一天，也就是10月3日，大致上中央應變中心有發布所有的預警資料，第13報跟第14報所有的報告都有送到送到各個一級開設的地方政府，當然也包括了新北市。當初10月3日早上9點半跟10月3日下午3點所提出來的淹水，都已經涵蓋了這些區域。"],["洪委員孟楷：但我現在講的是10月4日的強降雨。"],["陳主任宏宇：是，所以10月3日是預報預警第二天10月4號的事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，很明顯地，氣象署也好或災害應變中心有講，但是沒有講到那麼精確，就是強降雨的狀況，它是幾個小時內把一整天你們講的降雨量給降下來，所以會發生11、12點以前還是風平浪靜，尤其那一天縣市長覺得那天颱風已經過了，大家也都覺得颱風消失了，所以並沒有停班停課，但突然間下午短時間降下一整天的雨量，而造成衝擊性的災情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，其實災害應變中心在當天並沒有撤除，還是延續，所以災防中心的計算一直都在進行當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，我現在講的是你們的計算持續進行，但就是沒有那麼精確，以及強降雨的部分沒有告知。主委，我認為說……"],["吳主任委員誠文：其實有告知，但是大家可能會比較忽視掉，因為那是很特殊的狀況。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，說實在話，我覺得這變成兩個部分，一個是你們告知的狀況不夠精準，或是沒有辦法那麼準確地告知到底是什麼時間點有那麼大的降雨，大家共同面臨這個狀況。第二個部分是對於我們計算的狀況，能夠怎麼樣更精確地去掌握……"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛的簡報本席特別聽了，11分鐘裡面，你講了18次的AI，代表AI大家都很重視，我們也很關心，但重點是AI怎麼樣實際地運用在我們每一個人的生活裡面，並且真的看到問題、解決問題。"],["吳主任委員誠文：非常同意，我們會加強在AI的投入，希望把未來預測的解析度提升。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，在這個部分裡面，氣象署是不是能夠再做更緊密的會議討論，來了解未來可以怎麼樣協助到地方政府，讓地方政府能夠有更充裕的時間，或是讓民眾有更充裕的時間去了解相關的資訊？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝委員建議，我們會朝這個方向進行。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，另外，本席再請教，您也是總統府國家氣候變遷對應委員會委員的其中一員，對不對？最近環境部也好，或是在這個聚焦的會議裡面，已經聚焦到2032年臺灣減碳的新目標要提升到40%，這個您知道？"],["吳主任委員誠文：知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：知道嘛。上一次我們一樣在這個委員會，我請教你2028年臺灣有多少的發電是用火力發電，你笑笑，不願意正面回應，其實八成的發電量都是火力發電，但現在我們喊出一個新目標，叫做2032年要減碳40%。我先請教您知不知道之前國發會有訂出臺灣的目標，2025年減碳要減到多少？您清楚嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：抱歉，不清楚。"],["洪委員孟楷：2025年要減碳10%。那您知道之前的目標，2030年要減碳百分之多少嗎？也不清楚？剛才我開宗明義先請教您氣候變遷科技現象，你講到最重點是減碳，你說極端氣候的成因或背後的原因是因為碳排高……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，但這是全球……"],["洪委員孟楷：減碳的部分，臺灣現在2025年減碳10%，環境部長已經公開承認了明年絕對達不到10%，會跳票，那2030年說要減碳25%正負1，你覺得有可能達到嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我只能說我們要努力做……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果沒有達到呢？我當然相信大家都很努力做，你今年光說要跨部會淨零科技多少預算？"],["吳主任委員誠文：今年有將近120億。"],["洪委員孟楷：120億、130億。對啊！你每年跨部會預算一百二、三十億的預算，你跟我們講訂一個目標2025年已經跳票了，距離2030年還有5年的時間，25%不知道達不達得到，現在又要再畫一個新願景，叫2032年40%。我都不禁懷疑，為什麼會突然講2032？以前的目標是2025、2030，每5年檢討一次，我覺得很合理，突然講一個2032，是怎麼樣？為了總統大選？就是幫2028年要選連任在鋪排？那2032年達得到40%嗎？如果現在2025年的10%達不到，2030年的25%也不知道，那2032年的40%？這不是在菜市場喊價買菜，在那邊喊你加一點、我減一點，而是實際的作為。那2028年火力發電占八成以上，這個跟國際趨勢背道而馳，那你認為火力發電都全開了，在能源政策不改變的情況下，我們還有什麼樣可以把現在生活不變情況下的錦囊妙計？而我們又持續增加，又有AI、高科技、半導體持續增加，發電量需要持續的上升，我們有什麼錦囊妙計可以達到你所謂的25%或40%？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會會持續投入淨零節能技術的研發，也會協助政府來推動智慧電網，讓能源的使用更有效率。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以主委沒有辦法回答說到底有什麼錦囊妙計，因為你講的這些都是現在進行式、正在做，但還是一樣，我們看到碳排越來越高……"],["吳主任委員誠文：錦囊妙計在……"],["洪委員孟楷：我都不知道10月底有第2次的委員會，主委，你也算是個科學人嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以我從科學的角度。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，你從科學的角度，那你敢不敢講真話？在第2次、10月底，賴清德總統要開所謂的總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會，你發言一下，跟總統說，如果現在能源政策不改變，如果現在跟國際趨勢背道而馳，如果我們還是一樣照現在的方式的話，抱歉，25%、40%都是假的，達不到！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們會承諾投入各種可能的綠能技術研發。"],["洪委員孟楷：看來您還是不敢面對呢！"],["吳主任委員誠文：這不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：好啦，召委已經站起來了，最後30秒。主委，總統有講到「新北一二三」，賴清德總統之前說要推動淡海科學城，在本席的選區。卓榮泰院長在6月29號來到淡水視察淡江大橋工程的時候，也提到要有淡海科學城，並且國土署說現在要把科學園區跟科技園區共同放在淡海新市鎮二期一區的開發，還說已經找了經濟部跟國科會邀地方共同規劃，有沒有這件事？"],["吳主任委員誠文：科學園區的規劃我們的確有先期的參與。"],["洪委員孟楷：經濟部跟國科會有沒有邀地方共同討論？有沒有在著手進行？有沒有想要達成賴清德總統跟卓榮泰院長的政見？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個主政是內政部。"],["洪委員孟楷：主政是內政部，因為國土署開發。"],["吳主任委員誠文：內政部邀我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是現在主要……沒有錯，內政部邀你們嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但你們是一個很大的推力，是不是？本席想講的是……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們在那邊還沒有推力，因為那個地方……"],["主席：洪孟楷委員，是不是請主委於會後回復，好不好？"],["洪委員孟楷：好，可以。"],["吳主任委員誠文：那個地方是傳統產業為主。"],["洪委員孟楷：那個地方不是傳統產業為主，我必須要糾正您這句話，因為賴清德總統跟卓榮泰院長宣示的都是淡海科學城，並且希望能夠引進相關半導體或是比較高科技的部分。"],["吳主任委員誠文：總統指示的我們一定會照辦。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以……"],["主席：我想是不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：請會後給本席相關資料。"],["主席：對，主委會後再提供給洪孟楷委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為你今天的業務報告裡面花了很多篇幅在寫，但是沒有提到任何賴清德總統、卓榮泰院長的政見，要落實吧！"],["主席：謝謝，會後請吳主委再把相關的報告給洪孟楷委員。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：我會持續追，因為這不僅是總統的承諾，也是我們地方鄉親的期盼，更是我之前2020年就提出來的政見，所以也請國科會一定要重視，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪孟楷委員。","我們有請柯志恩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","陳培瑜","張雅琳","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","范雲","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","葉元之","吳春城","王定宇","鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","羅智強","陳冠廷","張嘉郡","邱志偉"],"page_start":375,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00017"}}}