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838.68, \"end\": 838.92, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"格\", \"start\": 838.92, \"end\": 839.42, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 839.42, \"end\": 839.52, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 839.52, \"end\": 839.76, \"score\": 0.51}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 839.76, \"end\": 839.92, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 839.92, \"end\": 840.121, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 840.121, \"end\": 840.341, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 840.341, \"end\": 840.521, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 840.521, \"end\": 840.681, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 840.681, \"end\": 840.901, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 840.901, \"end\": 841.381, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 841.381, \"end\": 841.641, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 841.641, \"end\": 841.781, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 841.781, \"end\": 841.961, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 841.961, \"end\": 842.161, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 842.161, \"end\": 842.342, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 842.342, \"end\": 842.522, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"神\", \"start\": 842.522, \"end\": 842.982, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 842.982, \"end\": 843.762, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 843.762, \"end\": 844.002, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 844.002, \"end\": 844.342, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 844.342, \"end\": 844.583, \"score\": 0.603}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 844.583, \"end\": 844.783, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 844.783, \"end\": 845.183, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 845.183, \"end\": 845.203, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 846.476, \"end\": 846.576, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 846.576, \"end\": 847.861, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 847.861, \"end\": 848.002, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 848.002, \"end\": 848.463, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 848.463, \"end\": 848.604, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 848.604, \"end\": 848.825, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 848.825, \"end\": 849.246, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 849.246, \"end\": 849.387, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 849.387, \"end\": 849.728, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 849.728, \"end\": 849.888, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 849.888, \"end\": 849.908, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,359 --> 00:00:29,224\n主席啊部長抱歉啦你都坐不幾分鐘謝謝部長我是接著對啦我是接著陳委員繼續問因為今天要質詢您的議題真的很廣泛今天我們超委給我們排的問題太多了其實你要我問人工生殖法少子化我問三天三夜也可以幫我來您是專家\n\n2\n00:00:29,804 --> 00:00:55,611\n但是我覺得我最近真的很像執政黨的委員了因為我拼命在幫你們辯護也希望你們可以拿出勇敢的guts好嗎我現在覺得我比執政黨委員還像執政黨委員當然剛剛說我們已經蹉跎了30年但是我覺得有一個優點就是我們希望我們可以在這個任期啊做出一點推進因為人工生殖第一進步非常的多\n\n3\n00:00:56,491 --> 00:01:21,487\n第二其實經過30年的討論我看過國建署的版本我在這邊非常的讚許國建署因為他們把世界各國缺點都沒有都改過了他們發現有些衝比較快的國家的確有缺點改掉了現在我們是用最嚴謹的方法在制定我們的人工生殖法我們看過很多國家經歷的事我們也知道哪些事要避免所以我們往\n\n4\n00:01:22,472 --> 00:01:39,625\n英國美國加拿大澳洲這些法國化非常嚴格的國家在學習這點必須要肯定那我也看了過去20到30年在這個今天這個場域有發言過的委員關於人工生殖法的發言\n\n5\n00:01:40,666 --> 00:01:55,897\n許多呢我在這邊必須要說從醫學專業來看畢竟這邊我們有很多都是學科學學醫學的人女權還有社會議題跟醫學是沒有辦法相互解釋的剛剛陳昭之委員提到的這個女權前輩他在這個場域曾經說過我們醫學專家難以置信的話他在這邊有一天咆哮說憑什麼50歲的女人不能捐卵啊\n\n6\n00:02:09,227 --> 00:02:28,456\n他居然講出這句話欸你認同嗎而且他對於這個胚胎的植入可屬也有他自己很獨特的看法那我覺得部長我先預告啦您等一下接續今天還有30幾個委員要問您可能會遇到一些砲火但是我們必須要根據國際最新的醫療期刊\n\n7\n00:02:30,298 --> 00:02:42,087\n國際最新的數據還有人工生殖的科技是像火箭式每年在增長的我們要用最新的科學數據告訴大家為什麼這些人工生殖法的修正草案是這樣一筆一筆的定出來的好嗎\n\n8\n00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:48,422\n這是一個台灣目前普世價值的問題所以部長您一定要堅持住好嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:06,261 --> 00:03:24,773\n我已經堅持到民眾的最大的權益還有當然少數民眾的需求我們一定要重視然後在法規在倫理在社會的共識沒有你也要相信你的國建署你的國建署已經花了很多的心思在做這個修正草案了非常多\n\n10\n00:03:26,328 --> 00:03:51,906\n對,他們掌握得非常清楚部長,剛好國際組署長也在這邊我要關心一下腹癌的議題因為最近這幾週呢有一位我們議員的前輩許議員因為子宮內膜癌過世所以我認為啦在環境荷爾蒙不斷的上升還有我們的飲食改變高齡化、三高、糖尿病等等還有很多不孕症的疾病其實已經讓我們的腹癌分布有改變了\n\n11\n00:03:52,526 --> 00:04:18,824\n因此我們其實腹癌的篩檢需要做一些調整這個您是專家、家醫科醫師對不對所以之前其實您訂定的很好不管是抹片或是HPV的檢查或是HPV的疫苗你看關於子宮頸癌的死亡率跟發生率是大幅相較現在每年是1100個人好那為什麼呢我們子宮頸癌的這個申報成長率不會上升呢這個一定\n\n12\n00:04:19,938 --> 00:04:20,118\n好。好。\n\n13\n00:04:42,375 --> 00:04:55,094\n現在你發現其實你之前的政策不錯他不斷的在下降你的篩檢率也提高不了結果你又灌了新的預算金去篩檢那我們來關心一下議員得到的這個子宮內母愛下一張欸這不能work\n\n14\n00:04:58,356 --> 00:05:18,393\n他是從過去1995年至今是提升10倍之多啦其中的環節其中的原因我們這個大家都是專家都知道啦肥胖啊三高啊糖尿病啊等等的所以你們不會想要在其他兩個卵巢癌跟子宮內膜癌增加他的篩檢方式嗎這篩檢方式很簡單欸\n\n15\n00:05:22,793 --> 00:05:40,013\n我們一直在嚴厲相關的是不是有篩檢的工具那應該要有實證的醫學本席在這邊提一下子宮內膜癌它初期的症狀其實是不正常的出血但大部分的婦女並不會把它當一回事因為月經不正常是常常發生的嘛下一張\n\n16\n00:05:41,479 --> 00:06:02,245\n好我們來針對這些高風險的女性如果提供適當的篩檢其實很簡單就是一個陰道超音波就可以了陰道超音波大概只多花5到10分鐘他不僅是看子宮的構造連卵巢一起看所以你多一個篩檢你還可以預防兩個腹癌而且這些腹癌人數加起來是你的子宮頸來的4到5倍欸\n\n17\n00:06:09,211 --> 00:06:23,927\n好,我想感謝委員關心這個主題那的確我們的癌症會隨著環境的整個變遷會有不同的incidence的發生那我想我們要以日俱增來\n\n18\n00:06:26,489 --> 00:06:44,704\n對所有可能發生的癌症我們都能夠全面的來找到之後我再寫一個提案提供您一個很具體的做法這也是跟許多國衛院的專家、婦外的專家以及公衛的專家一起想出來的其實這個預算金額不會很高大概8到10億但是你針對全國50到75歲的女性大約快要430萬人這些人可以提供他們更多的保護好嗎\n\n19\n00:06:54,417 --> 00:07:18,379\n好再來因為剛剛有講到說女性有許多癌症不管是腹癌或是其他癌症都在不斷的上升所以其實我們對這些癌症病友也很關心他們希望未來成為媽媽的願望嘛但是呢現在各縣市很多地方也有提供動卵補助可是他動卵補助沒有比預期的申請率高大家知道為什麼嗎\n\n20\n00:07:21,786 --> 00:07:49,334\n沒關係部長我跟你講答案就是因為我們的人工生殖法還沒有修法也是其中的一個因素因為我們的女性有偶率已經來到10年來的新低這個署長一定知道48%的人是有偶的可是現在的人工生殖法如果你不去修正它的話它除非未來有找到對象不然它永遠沒有辦法使用自己的卵子OK嗎\n\n21\n00:07:50,734 --> 00:07:50,874\n好,下一張\n\n22\n00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:34,093\n這邊有講到說剛剛那位委員曾經也在這個場域啊講過說為什麼我們不植入5顆胚胎我在這邊也看到說國健署很細心在代孕的環節有規定代理孕母每一次只能植幾顆胚胎為限好這一點的話我希望當然大家很關心代理孕母也可以同樣把它援引到不管是同性伴侶或是單身女性這個部分\n\n23\n00:08:34,833 --> 00:08:44,891\n其實我們也可以根據現在人工生殖的技術發展還有懷孕的成功率我們逐項的訂定胚胎植入數的標準這一點可以做到嗎?\n\n24\n00:08:47,644 --> 00:09:04,789\n對,署長應該很了解因為署長自從推了試管嬰兒補助以後其實對我們國家的多胞胎率下降貢獻非常大對,但是現在只有零補助的人會被規定植入科宿沒有零補助的人他想植有的人想\n\n25\n00:09:05,669 --> 00:09:06,650\n不好意思主席,抱歉\n\n26\n00:09:25,367 --> 00:09:48,686\n再來也是這幾天大家很關心的部長您應該知道一一三年憲法判決第八號說如果這個精神科醫師在發現這個加害人有重大的精神心智缺陷不得執行死刑好我們看這個臉書他是一個火車刺警案的鑑定醫師他被大出征啊\n\n27\n00:09:49,875 --> 00:10:08,164\n他自從鑑定這個加害人有精神疾病以後他在網路上被出征他連基本的人身安全都沒有部長你也是醫生救人是醫生的天職你認為替死刑犯判定精神狀況是不是有違醫師的倫理\n\n28\n00:10:11,693 --> 00:10:36,385\n這可能針對整個社會的狀況以及現在醫學的發展那我想我們還是要請醫學會的專家我跟你說醫學會的專家世界精神醫學會在1996年馬德里宣言2023年日內瓦宣言都有講過說在任何情況下精神科醫師不應該執行死刑能力的鑑定第二\n\n29\n00:10:37,445 --> 00:11:01,370\n對於各種精神病患精神科醫師都應該積極協助法律上無法為自己有效防禦辯護不足足夠能力承擔法律責任的人好現在呢他好好的在醫學系想說要成為這個精神科醫師心理科醫師只為了幫助社會卻變成全民公審的對象或者是頭號罪人\n\n30\n00:11:02,610 --> 00:11:23,258\n這個判決下去以後精神科醫師如果他說他有問題有精神病不得執行死刑就變成頭號公題如果他說好他沒有精神病他沒問題就違反當初的醫師誓言嘛因為他就有可能會有執行死刑的問題這一點你怎麼看你是不是應該要出來為醫生講幾句話\n\n31\n00:11:26,997 --> 00:11:44,910\n我想我當醫學院的教授當了幾十年一定是堅守Hippocratic醫師誓言的那個教學但是醫師是不是對社會也有一定的責任對社會的公平正義\n\n32\n00:11:45,942 --> 00:11:46,823\n現在全國有151間的醫療單位可以做司法的精神鑑定\n\n33\n00:12:01,053 --> 00:12:25,294\n我們在這個審判中保護兩兆的基本人權是天經地義的嘛不管是加害人或是被害人可是誰來保護這些提供精神鑑定的醫療人員這邊提供一些國外的做法給部長參考一下比如說在國外不管是加害人或被害人或是檢方或是法官雙方各自聘請不同的專家\n\n34\n00:12:26,255 --> 00:12:49,864\n比如說曾經這個刺殺雷根總統的案子請了4個鑑定專家還有挪威的大屠殺兩邊各請了兩個專家所以他們在反覆的辯證中論述也會不同這樣可以分擔鑑定人員的心理壓力所以在這邊可以請部長具體的承諾您可以在一個月內給本席答覆可以跟司法司法體系來溝通嗎\n\n35\n00:12:52,452 --> 00:13:03,709\n好,我想這個都我們一直在溝通,一直在溝通,所以1個月會提進度報告。好,主席,最後一題,最後一題,你先坐啦,你先坐啦,最後一題啦。\n\n36\n00:13:06,691 --> 00:13:32,882\n好既然我們現在的量能不足既然我們現在的量能不足部長本來小英總統說呢要投入400億來完善司法精神醫療服務目標2025年要做到480床結果現在只有30床你的達成率是6%那未來呢我們只會需要更多這樣子的機構你知不知道這些有多高的比例是反社會人格\n\n37\n00:13:35,393 --> 00:13:36,537\n包圍我們到這個月底會開到102床會繼續努力\n\n38\n00:13:41,072 --> 00:14:05,203\n好你距離480床還是很遙遠這邊有一個報告是你們自己做的我也這邊具體建議部長可以讀一下你們很明確的在全民心理健康任性計畫裡面提到60%收治的精神病患中有反社會人格所以這些人如果沒有在完整的司法精神體系內他出來只會越來越嚴重\n\n39\n00:14:06,476 --> 00:14:09,908\n好嗎?好,這個本期會繼續追下去。謝謝主席,謝謝主席。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5359\t29224\t主席 啊 部長 抱歉啦 你都 坐不 幾分鐘謝謝 部長 我是接著 對啦 我是接著陳委員繼續問因為今天要質詢您的議題真的很廣泛 今天我們超委給我們排的問題太多了其實你要我問人工生殖法少子化 我問三天三夜也可以 幫我來 您是專家\n29804\t55611\t但是我覺得我最近真的很像執政黨的委員了因為我拼命在幫你們辯護也希望你們可以拿出勇敢的 guts 好嗎我現在覺得我比執政黨委員還像執政黨委員當然剛剛說我們已經蹉跎了30年但是我覺得有一個優點就是我們希望我們可以在這個任期啊做出一點推進因為人工生殖第一進步非常的多\n56491\t81487\t第二其實經過30年的討論我看過國建署的版本我在這邊非常的讚許國建署因為他們把世界各國缺點都沒有都改過了他們發現有些衝比較快的國家的確有缺點改掉了現在我們是用最嚴謹的方法在制定我們的人工生殖法我們看過很多國家經歷的事我們也知道哪些事要避免所以我們往\n82472\t99625\t英國美國加拿大澳洲這些法國化非常嚴格的國家在學習這點必須要肯定那我也看了過去20到30年在這個今天這個場域有發言過的委員關於人工生殖法的發言\n100666\t115897\t許多呢我在這邊必須要說從醫學專業來看畢竟這邊我們有很多都是學科學學醫學的人女權還有社會議題跟醫學是沒有辦法相互解釋的剛剛陳昭之委員提到的這個女權前輩他在這個場域曾經說過我們醫學專家難以置信的話他在這邊有一天咆哮說憑什麼50歲的女人不能捐卵啊\n129227\t148456\t他居然講出這句話欸你認同嗎而且他對於這個胚胎的植入可屬也有他自己很獨特的看法那我覺得部長我先預告啦您等一下接續今天還有30幾個委員要問您可能會遇到一些砲火但是我們必須要根據國際最新的醫療期刊\n150298\t162087\t國際最新的數據還有人工生殖的科技是像火箭式每年在增長的我們要用最新的科學數據告訴大家為什麼這些人工生殖法的修正草案是這樣一筆一筆的定出來的好嗎\n166039\t168422\t這是一個台灣目前普世價值的問題所以部長您一定要堅持住好嗎?\n186261\t204773\t我已經堅持到民眾的最大的權益還有當然少數民眾的需求我們一定要重視然後在法規在倫理在社會的共識沒有你也要相信你的國建署你的國建署已經花了很多的心思在做這個修正草案了非常多\n206328\t231906\t對,他們掌握得非常清楚部長,剛好國際組署長也在這邊我要關心一下腹癌的議題因為最近這幾週呢有一位我們議員的前輩許議員因為子宮內膜癌過世所以我認為啦在環境荷爾蒙不斷的上升還有我們的飲食改變高齡化、三高、糖尿病等等還有很多不孕症的疾病其實已經讓我們的腹癌分布有改變了\n232526\t258824\t因此我們其實腹癌的篩檢需要做一些調整這個您是專家、家醫科醫師對不對所以之前其實您訂定的很好不管是抹片或是HPV的檢查或是HPV的疫苗你看關於子宮頸癌的死亡率跟發生率是大幅相較現在每年是1100個人好那為什麼呢我們子宮頸癌的這個申報成長率不會上升呢這個一定\n259938\t260118\t好。好。\n282375\t295094\t現在你發現其實你之前的政策不錯他不斷的在下降你的篩檢率也提高不了結果你又灌了新的預算金去篩檢那我們來關心一下議員得到的這個子宮內母愛下一張欸這不能work\n298356\t318393\t他是從過去1995年至今是提升10倍之多啦其中的環節其中的原因我們這個大家都是專家都知道啦肥胖啊三高啊糖尿病啊等等的所以你們不會想要在其他兩個卵巢癌跟子宮內膜癌增加他的篩檢方式嗎這篩檢方式很簡單欸\n322793\t340013\t我們一直在嚴厲相關的是不是有篩檢的工具那應該要有實證的醫學本席在這邊提一下子宮內膜癌它初期的症狀其實是不正常的出血但大部分的婦女並不會把它當一回事因為月經不正常是常常發生的嘛下一張\n341479\t362245\t好我們來針對這些高風險的女性如果提供適當的篩檢其實很簡單就是一個陰道超音波就可以了陰道超音波大概只多花5到10分鐘他不僅是看子宮的構造連卵巢一起看所以你多一個篩檢你還可以預防兩個腹癌而且這些腹癌人數加起來是你的子宮頸來的4到5倍欸\n369211\t383927\t好,我想感謝委員關心這個主題那的確我們的癌症會隨著環境的整個變遷會有不同的incidence的發生那我想我們要以日俱增來\n386489\t404704\t對所有可能發生的癌症我們都能夠全面的來找到之後我再寫一個提案提供您一個很具體的做法這也是跟許多國衛院的專家、婦外的專家以及公衛的專家一起想出來的其實這個預算金額不會很高大概8到10億但是你針對全國50到75歲的女性大約快要430萬人這些人可以提供他們更多的保護好嗎\n414417\t438379\t好再來因為剛剛有講到說女性有許多癌症不管是腹癌或是其他癌症都在不斷的上升所以其實我們對這些癌症病友也很關心他們希望未來成為媽媽的願望嘛但是呢現在各縣市很多地方也有提供動卵補助可是他動卵補助沒有比預期的申請率高大家知道為什麼嗎\n441786\t469334\t沒關係部長我跟你講答案就是因為我們的人工生殖法還沒有修法也是其中的一個因素因為我們的女性有偶率已經來到10年來的新低這個署長一定知道48%的人是有偶的可是現在的人工生殖法如果你不去修正它的話它除非未來有找到對象不然它永遠沒有辦法使用自己的卵子OK嗎\n470734\t470874\t好,下一張\n487200\t514093\t這邊有講到說剛剛那位委員曾經也在這個場域啊講過說為什麼我們不植入5顆胚胎我在這邊也看到說國健署很細心在代孕的環節有規定代理孕母每一次只能植幾顆胚胎為限好這一點的話我希望當然大家很關心代理孕母也可以同樣把它援引到不管是同性伴侶或是單身女性這個部分\n514833\t524891\t其實我們也可以根據現在人工生殖的技術發展還有懷孕的成功率我們逐項的訂定胚胎植入數的標準這一點可以做到嗎?\n527644\t544789\t對,署長應該很了解因為署長自從推了試管嬰兒補助以後其實對我們國家的多胞胎率下降貢獻非常大對,但是現在只有零補助的人會被規定植入科宿沒有零補助的人他想植有的人想\n545669\t546650\t不好意思主席,抱歉\n565367\t588686\t再來也是這幾天大家很關心的部長您應該知道一一三年憲法判決第八號說如果這個精神科醫師在發現這個加害人有重大的精神心智缺陷不得執行死刑好我們看這個臉書他是一個火車刺警案的鑑定醫師他被大出征啊\n589875\t608164\t他自從鑑定這個加害人有精神疾病以後他在網路上被出征他連基本的人身安全都沒有部長你也是醫生救人是醫生的天職你認為替死刑犯判定精神狀況是不是有違醫師的倫理\n611693\t636385\t這可能針對整個社會的狀況以及現在醫學的發展那我想我們還是要請醫學會的專家我跟你說醫學會的專家世界精神醫學會在1996年馬德里宣言2023年日內瓦宣言都有講過說在任何情況下精神科醫師不應該執行死刑能力的鑑定第二\n637445\t661370\t對於各種精神病患精神科醫師都應該積極協助法律上無法為自己有效防禦辯護不足足夠能力承擔法律責任的人好現在呢他好好的在醫學系想說要成為這個精神科醫師心理科醫師只為了幫助社會卻變成全民公審的對象或者是頭號罪人\n662610\t683258\t這個判決下去以後精神科醫師如果他說他有問題有精神病不得執行死刑就變成頭號公題如果他說好他沒有精神病他沒問題就違反當初的醫師誓言嘛因為他就有可能會有執行死刑的問題這一點你怎麼看你是不是應該要出來為醫生講幾句話\n686997\t704910\t我想我當醫學院的教授當了幾十年一定是堅守Hippocratic醫師誓言的那個教學但是醫師是不是對社會也有一定的責任對社會的公平正義\n705942\t706823\t現在全國有151間的醫療單位可以做司法的精神鑑定\n721053\t745294\t我們在這個審判中保護兩兆的基本人權是天經地義的嘛不管是加害人或是被害人可是誰來保護這些提供精神鑑定的醫療人員這邊提供一些國外的做法給部長參考一下比如說在國外不管是加害人或被害人或是檢方或是法官雙方各自聘請不同的專家\n746255\t769864\t比如說曾經這個刺殺雷根總統的案子請了4個鑑定專家還有挪威的大屠殺兩邊各請了兩個專家所以他們在反覆的辯證中論述也會不同這樣可以分擔鑑定人員的心理壓力所以在這邊可以請部長具體的承諾您可以在一個月內給本席答覆可以跟司法司法體系來溝通嗎\n772452\t783709\t好,我想這個都我們一直在溝通,一直在溝通,所以1個月會提進度報告。好,主席,最後一題,最後一題,你先坐啦,你先坐啦,最後一題啦。\n786691\t812882\t好既然我們現在的量能不足既然我們現在的量能不足部長本來小英總統說呢要投入400億來完善司法精神醫療服務目標2025年要做到480床結果現在只有30床你的達成率是6%那未來呢我們只會需要更多這樣子的機構你知不知道這些有多高的比例是反社會人格\n815393\t816537\t包圍我們到這個月底會開到102床會繼續努力\n821072\t845203\t好你距離480床還是很遙遠這邊有一個報告是你們自己做的我也這邊具體建議部長可以讀一下你們很明確的在全民心理健康任性計畫裡面提到60%收治的精神病患中有反社會人格所以這些人如果沒有在完整的司法精神體系內他出來只會越來越嚴重\n846476\t849908\t好嗎?好,這個本期會繼續追下去。謝謝主席,謝謝主席。\n","txt":"主席 啊 部長 抱歉啦 你都 坐不 幾分鐘謝謝 部長 我是接著 對啦 我是接著陳委員繼續問因為今天要質詢您的議題真的很廣泛 今天我們超委給我們排的問題太多了其實你要我問人工生殖法少子化 我問三天三夜也可以 幫我來 您是專家\n但是我覺得我最近真的很像執政黨的委員了因為我拼命在幫你們辯護也希望你們可以拿出勇敢的 guts 好嗎我現在覺得我比執政黨委員還像執政黨委員當然剛剛說我們已經蹉跎了30年但是我覺得有一個優點就是我們希望我們可以在這個任期啊做出一點推進因為人工生殖第一進步非常的多\n第二其實經過30年的討論我看過國建署的版本我在這邊非常的讚許國建署因為他們把世界各國缺點都沒有都改過了他們發現有些衝比較快的國家的確有缺點改掉了現在我們是用最嚴謹的方法在制定我們的人工生殖法我們看過很多國家經歷的事我們也知道哪些事要避免所以我們往\n英國美國加拿大澳洲這些法國化非常嚴格的國家在學習這點必須要肯定那我也看了過去20到30年在這個今天這個場域有發言過的委員關於人工生殖法的發言\n許多呢我在這邊必須要說從醫學專業來看畢竟這邊我們有很多都是學科學學醫學的人女權還有社會議題跟醫學是沒有辦法相互解釋的剛剛陳昭之委員提到的這個女權前輩他在這個場域曾經說過我們醫學專家難以置信的話他在這邊有一天咆哮說憑什麼50歲的女人不能捐卵啊\n他居然講出這句話欸你認同嗎而且他對於這個胚胎的植入可屬也有他自己很獨特的看法那我覺得部長我先預告啦您等一下接續今天還有30幾個委員要問您可能會遇到一些砲火但是我們必須要根據國際最新的醫療期刊\n國際最新的數據還有人工生殖的科技是像火箭式每年在增長的我們要用最新的科學數據告訴大家為什麼這些人工生殖法的修正草案是這樣一筆一筆的定出來的好嗎\n這是一個台灣目前普世價值的問題所以部長您一定要堅持住好嗎?\n我已經堅持到民眾的最大的權益還有當然少數民眾的需求我們一定要重視然後在法規在倫理在社會的共識沒有你也要相信你的國建署你的國建署已經花了很多的心思在做這個修正草案了非常多\n對,他們掌握得非常清楚部長,剛好國際組署長也在這邊我要關心一下腹癌的議題因為最近這幾週呢有一位我們議員的前輩許議員因為子宮內膜癌過世所以我認為啦在環境荷爾蒙不斷的上升還有我們的飲食改變高齡化、三高、糖尿病等等還有很多不孕症的疾病其實已經讓我們的腹癌分布有改變了\n因此我們其實腹癌的篩檢需要做一些調整這個您是專家、家醫科醫師對不對所以之前其實您訂定的很好不管是抹片或是HPV的檢查或是HPV的疫苗你看關於子宮頸癌的死亡率跟發生率是大幅相較現在每年是1100個人好那為什麼呢我們子宮頸癌的這個申報成長率不會上升呢這個一定\n好。好。\n現在你發現其實你之前的政策不錯他不斷的在下降你的篩檢率也提高不了結果你又灌了新的預算金去篩檢那我們來關心一下議員得到的這個子宮內母愛下一張欸這不能work\n他是從過去1995年至今是提升10倍之多啦其中的環節其中的原因我們這個大家都是專家都知道啦肥胖啊三高啊糖尿病啊等等的所以你們不會想要在其他兩個卵巢癌跟子宮內膜癌增加他的篩檢方式嗎這篩檢方式很簡單欸\n我們一直在嚴厲相關的是不是有篩檢的工具那應該要有實證的醫學本席在這邊提一下子宮內膜癌它初期的症狀其實是不正常的出血但大部分的婦女並不會把它當一回事因為月經不正常是常常發生的嘛下一張\n好我們來針對這些高風險的女性如果提供適當的篩檢其實很簡單就是一個陰道超音波就可以了陰道超音波大概只多花5到10分鐘他不僅是看子宮的構造連卵巢一起看所以你多一個篩檢你還可以預防兩個腹癌而且這些腹癌人數加起來是你的子宮頸來的4到5倍欸\n好,我想感謝委員關心這個主題那的確我們的癌症會隨著環境的整個變遷會有不同的incidence的發生那我想我們要以日俱增來\n對所有可能發生的癌症我們都能夠全面的來找到之後我再寫一個提案提供您一個很具體的做法這也是跟許多國衛院的專家、婦外的專家以及公衛的專家一起想出來的其實這個預算金額不會很高大概8到10億但是你針對全國50到75歲的女性大約快要430萬人這些人可以提供他們更多的保護好嗎\n好再來因為剛剛有講到說女性有許多癌症不管是腹癌或是其他癌症都在不斷的上升所以其實我們對這些癌症病友也很關心他們希望未來成為媽媽的願望嘛但是呢現在各縣市很多地方也有提供動卵補助可是他動卵補助沒有比預期的申請率高大家知道為什麼嗎\n沒關係部長我跟你講答案就是因為我們的人工生殖法還沒有修法也是其中的一個因素因為我們的女性有偶率已經來到10年來的新低這個署長一定知道48%的人是有偶的可是現在的人工生殖法如果你不去修正它的話它除非未來有找到對象不然它永遠沒有辦法使用自己的卵子OK嗎\n好,下一張\n這邊有講到說剛剛那位委員曾經也在這個場域啊講過說為什麼我們不植入5顆胚胎我在這邊也看到說國健署很細心在代孕的環節有規定代理孕母每一次只能植幾顆胚胎為限好這一點的話我希望當然大家很關心代理孕母也可以同樣把它援引到不管是同性伴侶或是單身女性這個部分\n其實我們也可以根據現在人工生殖的技術發展還有懷孕的成功率我們逐項的訂定胚胎植入數的標準這一點可以做到嗎?\n對,署長應該很了解因為署長自從推了試管嬰兒補助以後其實對我們國家的多胞胎率下降貢獻非常大對,但是現在只有零補助的人會被規定植入科宿沒有零補助的人他想植有的人想\n不好意思主席,抱歉\n再來也是這幾天大家很關心的部長您應該知道一一三年憲法判決第八號說如果這個精神科醫師在發現這個加害人有重大的精神心智缺陷不得執行死刑好我們看這個臉書他是一個火車刺警案的鑑定醫師他被大出征啊\n他自從鑑定這個加害人有精神疾病以後他在網路上被出征他連基本的人身安全都沒有部長你也是醫生救人是醫生的天職你認為替死刑犯判定精神狀況是不是有違醫師的倫理\n這可能針對整個社會的狀況以及現在醫學的發展那我想我們還是要請醫學會的專家我跟你說醫學會的專家世界精神醫學會在1996年馬德里宣言2023年日內瓦宣言都有講過說在任何情況下精神科醫師不應該執行死刑能力的鑑定第二\n對於各種精神病患精神科醫師都應該積極協助法律上無法為自己有效防禦辯護不足足夠能力承擔法律責任的人好現在呢他好好的在醫學系想說要成為這個精神科醫師心理科醫師只為了幫助社會卻變成全民公審的對象或者是頭號罪人\n這個判決下去以後精神科醫師如果他說他有問題有精神病不得執行死刑就變成頭號公題如果他說好他沒有精神病他沒問題就違反當初的醫師誓言嘛因為他就有可能會有執行死刑的問題這一點你怎麼看你是不是應該要出來為醫生講幾句話\n我想我當醫學院的教授當了幾十年一定是堅守Hippocratic醫師誓言的那個教學但是醫師是不是對社會也有一定的責任對社會的公平正義\n現在全國有151間的醫療單位可以做司法的精神鑑定\n我們在這個審判中保護兩兆的基本人權是天經地義的嘛不管是加害人或是被害人可是誰來保護這些提供精神鑑定的醫療人員這邊提供一些國外的做法給部長參考一下比如說在國外不管是加害人或被害人或是檢方或是法官雙方各自聘請不同的專家\n比如說曾經這個刺殺雷根總統的案子請了4個鑑定專家還有挪威的大屠殺兩邊各請了兩個專家所以他們在反覆的辯證中論述也會不同這樣可以分擔鑑定人員的心理壓力所以在這邊可以請部長具體的承諾您可以在一個月內給本席答覆可以跟司法司法體系來溝通嗎\n好,我想這個都我們一直在溝通,一直在溝通,所以1個月會提進度報告。好,主席,最後一題,最後一題,你先坐啦,你先坐啦,最後一題啦。\n好既然我們現在的量能不足既然我們現在的量能不足部長本來小英總統說呢要投入400億來完善司法精神醫療服務目標2025年要做到480床結果現在只有30床你的達成率是6%那未來呢我們只會需要更多這樣子的機構你知不知道這些有多高的比例是反社會人格\n包圍我們到這個月底會開到102床會繼續努力\n好你距離480床還是很遙遠這邊有一個報告是你們自己做的我也這邊具體建議部長可以讀一下你們很明確的在全民心理健康任性計畫裡面提到60%收治的精神病患中有反社會人格所以這些人如果沒有在完整的司法精神體系內他出來只會越來越嚴重\n好嗎?好,這個本期會繼續追下去。謝謝主席,謝謝主席。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.359 --> 00:29.224\n主席啊部長抱歉啦你都坐不幾分鐘謝謝部長我是接著對啦我是接著陳委員繼續問因為今天要質詢您的議題真的很廣泛今天我們超委給我們排的問題太多了其實你要我問人工生殖法少子化我問三天三夜也可以幫我來您是專家\n\n00:29.804 --> 00:55.611\n但是我覺得我最近真的很像執政黨的委員了因為我拼命在幫你們辯護也希望你們可以拿出勇敢的guts好嗎我現在覺得我比執政黨委員還像執政黨委員當然剛剛說我們已經蹉跎了30年但是我覺得有一個優點就是我們希望我們可以在這個任期啊做出一點推進因為人工生殖第一進步非常的多\n\n00:56.491 --> 01:21.487\n第二其實經過30年的討論我看過國建署的版本我在這邊非常的讚許國建署因為他們把世界各國缺點都沒有都改過了他們發現有些衝比較快的國家的確有缺點改掉了現在我們是用最嚴謹的方法在制定我們的人工生殖法我們看過很多國家經歷的事我們也知道哪些事要避免所以我們往\n\n01:22.472 --> 01:39.625\n英國美國加拿大澳洲這些法國化非常嚴格的國家在學習這點必須要肯定那我也看了過去20到30年在這個今天這個場域有發言過的委員關於人工生殖法的發言\n\n01:40.666 --> 01:55.897\n許多呢我在這邊必須要說從醫學專業來看畢竟這邊我們有很多都是學科學學醫學的人女權還有社會議題跟醫學是沒有辦法相互解釋的剛剛陳昭之委員提到的這個女權前輩他在這個場域曾經說過我們醫學專家難以置信的話他在這邊有一天咆哮說憑什麼50歲的女人不能捐卵啊\n\n02:09.227 --> 02:28.456\n他居然講出這句話欸你認同嗎而且他對於這個胚胎的植入可屬也有他自己很獨特的看法那我覺得部長我先預告啦您等一下接續今天還有30幾個委員要問您可能會遇到一些砲火但是我們必須要根據國際最新的醫療期刊\n\n02:30.298 --> 02:42.087\n國際最新的數據還有人工生殖的科技是像火箭式每年在增長的我們要用最新的科學數據告訴大家為什麼這些人工生殖法的修正草案是這樣一筆一筆的定出來的好嗎\n\n02:46.039 --> 02:48.422\n這是一個台灣目前普世價值的問題所以部長您一定要堅持住好嗎?\n\n03:06.261 --> 03:24.773\n我已經堅持到民眾的最大的權益還有當然少數民眾的需求我們一定要重視然後在法規在倫理在社會的共識沒有你也要相信你的國建署你的國建署已經花了很多的心思在做這個修正草案了非常多\n\n03:26.328 --> 03:51.906\n對,他們掌握得非常清楚部長,剛好國際組署長也在這邊我要關心一下腹癌的議題因為最近這幾週呢有一位我們議員的前輩許議員因為子宮內膜癌過世所以我認為啦在環境荷爾蒙不斷的上升還有我們的飲食改變高齡化、三高、糖尿病等等還有很多不孕症的疾病其實已經讓我們的腹癌分布有改變了\n\n03:52.526 --> 04:18.824\n因此我們其實腹癌的篩檢需要做一些調整這個您是專家、家醫科醫師對不對所以之前其實您訂定的很好不管是抹片或是HPV的檢查或是HPV的疫苗你看關於子宮頸癌的死亡率跟發生率是大幅相較現在每年是1100個人好那為什麼呢我們子宮頸癌的這個申報成長率不會上升呢這個一定\n\n04:19.938 --> 04:20.118\n好。好。\n\n04:42.375 --> 04:55.094\n現在你發現其實你之前的政策不錯他不斷的在下降你的篩檢率也提高不了結果你又灌了新的預算金去篩檢那我們來關心一下議員得到的這個子宮內母愛下一張欸這不能work\n\n04:58.356 --> 05:18.393\n他是從過去1995年至今是提升10倍之多啦其中的環節其中的原因我們這個大家都是專家都知道啦肥胖啊三高啊糖尿病啊等等的所以你們不會想要在其他兩個卵巢癌跟子宮內膜癌增加他的篩檢方式嗎這篩檢方式很簡單欸\n\n05:22.793 --> 05:40.013\n我們一直在嚴厲相關的是不是有篩檢的工具那應該要有實證的醫學本席在這邊提一下子宮內膜癌它初期的症狀其實是不正常的出血但大部分的婦女並不會把它當一回事因為月經不正常是常常發生的嘛下一張\n\n05:41.479 --> 06:02.245\n好我們來針對這些高風險的女性如果提供適當的篩檢其實很簡單就是一個陰道超音波就可以了陰道超音波大概只多花5到10分鐘他不僅是看子宮的構造連卵巢一起看所以你多一個篩檢你還可以預防兩個腹癌而且這些腹癌人數加起來是你的子宮頸來的4到5倍欸\n\n06:09.211 --> 06:23.927\n好,我想感謝委員關心這個主題那的確我們的癌症會隨著環境的整個變遷會有不同的incidence的發生那我想我們要以日俱增來\n\n06:26.489 --> 06:44.704\n對所有可能發生的癌症我們都能夠全面的來找到之後我再寫一個提案提供您一個很具體的做法這也是跟許多國衛院的專家、婦外的專家以及公衛的專家一起想出來的其實這個預算金額不會很高大概8到10億但是你針對全國50到75歲的女性大約快要430萬人這些人可以提供他們更多的保護好嗎\n\n06:54.417 --> 07:18.379\n好再來因為剛剛有講到說女性有許多癌症不管是腹癌或是其他癌症都在不斷的上升所以其實我們對這些癌症病友也很關心他們希望未來成為媽媽的願望嘛但是呢現在各縣市很多地方也有提供動卵補助可是他動卵補助沒有比預期的申請率高大家知道為什麼嗎\n\n07:21.786 --> 07:49.334\n沒關係部長我跟你講答案就是因為我們的人工生殖法還沒有修法也是其中的一個因素因為我們的女性有偶率已經來到10年來的新低這個署長一定知道48%的人是有偶的可是現在的人工生殖法如果你不去修正它的話它除非未來有找到對象不然它永遠沒有辦法使用自己的卵子OK嗎\n\n07:50.734 --> 07:50.874\n好,下一張\n\n08:07.200 --> 08:34.093\n這邊有講到說剛剛那位委員曾經也在這個場域啊講過說為什麼我們不植入5顆胚胎我在這邊也看到說國健署很細心在代孕的環節有規定代理孕母每一次只能植幾顆胚胎為限好這一點的話我希望當然大家很關心代理孕母也可以同樣把它援引到不管是同性伴侶或是單身女性這個部分\n\n08:34.833 --> 08:44.891\n其實我們也可以根據現在人工生殖的技術發展還有懷孕的成功率我們逐項的訂定胚胎植入數的標準這一點可以做到嗎?\n\n08:47.644 --> 09:04.789\n對,署長應該很了解因為署長自從推了試管嬰兒補助以後其實對我們國家的多胞胎率下降貢獻非常大對,但是現在只有零補助的人會被規定植入科宿沒有零補助的人他想植有的人想\n\n09:05.669 --> 09:06.650\n不好意思主席,抱歉\n\n09:25.367 --> 09:48.686\n再來也是這幾天大家很關心的部長您應該知道一一三年憲法判決第八號說如果這個精神科醫師在發現這個加害人有重大的精神心智缺陷不得執行死刑好我們看這個臉書他是一個火車刺警案的鑑定醫師他被大出征啊\n\n09:49.875 --> 10:08.164\n他自從鑑定這個加害人有精神疾病以後他在網路上被出征他連基本的人身安全都沒有部長你也是醫生救人是醫生的天職你認為替死刑犯判定精神狀況是不是有違醫師的倫理\n\n10:11.693 --> 10:36.385\n這可能針對整個社會的狀況以及現在醫學的發展那我想我們還是要請醫學會的專家我跟你說醫學會的專家世界精神醫學會在1996年馬德里宣言2023年日內瓦宣言都有講過說在任何情況下精神科醫師不應該執行死刑能力的鑑定第二\n\n10:37.445 --> 11:01.370\n對於各種精神病患精神科醫師都應該積極協助法律上無法為自己有效防禦辯護不足足夠能力承擔法律責任的人好現在呢他好好的在醫學系想說要成為這個精神科醫師心理科醫師只為了幫助社會卻變成全民公審的對象或者是頭號罪人\n\n11:02.610 --> 11:23.258\n這個判決下去以後精神科醫師如果他說他有問題有精神病不得執行死刑就變成頭號公題如果他說好他沒有精神病他沒問題就違反當初的醫師誓言嘛因為他就有可能會有執行死刑的問題這一點你怎麼看你是不是應該要出來為醫生講幾句話\n\n11:26.997 --> 11:44.910\n我想我當醫學院的教授當了幾十年一定是堅守Hippocratic醫師誓言的那個教學但是醫師是不是對社會也有一定的責任對社會的公平正義\n\n11:45.942 --> 11:46.823\n現在全國有151間的醫療單位可以做司法的精神鑑定\n\n12:01.053 --> 12:25.294\n我們在這個審判中保護兩兆的基本人權是天經地義的嘛不管是加害人或是被害人可是誰來保護這些提供精神鑑定的醫療人員這邊提供一些國外的做法給部長參考一下比如說在國外不管是加害人或被害人或是檢方或是法官雙方各自聘請不同的專家\n\n12:26.255 --> 12:49.864\n比如說曾經這個刺殺雷根總統的案子請了4個鑑定專家還有挪威的大屠殺兩邊各請了兩個專家所以他們在反覆的辯證中論述也會不同這樣可以分擔鑑定人員的心理壓力所以在這邊可以請部長具體的承諾您可以在一個月內給本席答覆可以跟司法司法體系來溝通嗎\n\n12:52.452 --> 13:03.709\n好,我想這個都我們一直在溝通,一直在溝通,所以1個月會提進度報告。好,主席,最後一題,最後一題,你先坐啦,你先坐啦,最後一題啦。\n\n13:06.691 --> 13:32.882\n好既然我們現在的量能不足既然我們現在的量能不足部長本來小英總統說呢要投入400億來完善司法精神醫療服務目標2025年要做到480床結果現在只有30床你的達成率是6%那未來呢我們只會需要更多這樣子的機構你知不知道這些有多高的比例是反社會人格\n\n13:35.393 --> 13:36.537\n包圍我們到這個月底會開到102床會繼續努力\n\n13:41.072 --> 14:05.203\n好你距離480床還是很遙遠這邊有一個報告是你們自己做的我也這邊具體建議部長可以讀一下你們很明確的在全民心理健康任性計畫裡面提到60%收治的精神病患中有反社會人格所以這些人如果沒有在完整的司法精神體系內他出來只會越來越嚴重\n\n14:06.476 --> 14:09.908\n好嗎?好,這個本期會繼續追下去。謝謝主席,謝謝主席。\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.359,"end":29.224,"text":"主席 啊 部長 抱歉啦 你都 坐不 幾分鐘謝謝 部長 我是接著 對啦 我是接著陳委員繼續問因為今天要質詢您的議題真的很廣泛 今天我們超委給我們排的問題太多了其實你要我問人工生殖法少子化 我問三天三夜也可以 幫我來 您是專家"},{"start":29.804,"end":55.611,"text":"但是我覺得我最近真的很像執政黨的委員了因為我拼命在幫你們辯護也希望你們可以拿出勇敢的 guts 好嗎我現在覺得我比執政黨委員還像執政黨委員當然剛剛說我們已經蹉跎了30年但是我覺得有一個優點就是我們希望我們可以在這個任期啊做出一點推進因為人工生殖第一進步非常的多"},{"start":56.491,"end":81.487,"text":"第二其實經過30年的討論我看過國建署的版本我在這邊非常的讚許國建署因為他們把世界各國缺點都沒有都改過了他們發現有些衝比較快的國家的確有缺點改掉了現在我們是用最嚴謹的方法在制定我們的人工生殖法我們看過很多國家經歷的事我們也知道哪些事要避免所以我們往"},{"start":82.472,"end":99.625,"text":"英國美國加拿大澳洲這些法國化非常嚴格的國家在學習這點必須要肯定那我也看了過去20到30年在這個今天這個場域有發言過的委員關於人工生殖法的發言"},{"start":100.666,"end":115.897,"text":"許多呢我在這邊必須要說從醫學專業來看畢竟這邊我們有很多都是學科學學醫學的人女權還有社會議題跟醫學是沒有辦法相互解釋的剛剛陳昭之委員提到的這個女權前輩他在這個場域曾經說過我們醫學專家難以置信的話他在這邊有一天咆哮說憑什麼50歲的女人不能捐卵啊"},{"start":129.227,"end":148.456,"text":"他居然講出這句話欸你認同嗎而且他對於這個胚胎的植入可屬也有他自己很獨特的看法那我覺得部長我先預告啦您等一下接續今天還有30幾個委員要問您可能會遇到一些砲火但是我們必須要根據國際最新的醫療期刊"},{"start":150.298,"end":162.087,"text":"國際最新的數據還有人工生殖的科技是像火箭式每年在增長的我們要用最新的科學數據告訴大家為什麼這些人工生殖法的修正草案是這樣一筆一筆的定出來的好嗎"},{"start":166.039,"end":168.422,"text":"這是一個台灣目前普世價值的問題所以部長您一定要堅持住好嗎?"},{"start":186.261,"end":204.773,"text":"我已經堅持到民眾的最大的權益還有當然少數民眾的需求我們一定要重視然後在法規在倫理在社會的共識沒有你也要相信你的國建署你的國建署已經花了很多的心思在做這個修正草案了非常多"},{"start":206.328,"end":231.906,"text":"對,他們掌握得非常清楚部長,剛好國際組署長也在這邊我要關心一下腹癌的議題因為最近這幾週呢有一位我們議員的前輩許議員因為子宮內膜癌過世所以我認為啦在環境荷爾蒙不斷的上升還有我們的飲食改變高齡化、三高、糖尿病等等還有很多不孕症的疾病其實已經讓我們的腹癌分布有改變了"},{"start":232.526,"end":258.824,"text":"因此我們其實腹癌的篩檢需要做一些調整這個您是專家、家醫科醫師對不對所以之前其實您訂定的很好不管是抹片或是HPV的檢查或是HPV的疫苗你看關於子宮頸癌的死亡率跟發生率是大幅相較現在每年是1100個人好那為什麼呢我們子宮頸癌的這個申報成長率不會上升呢這個一定"},{"start":259.938,"end":260.118,"text":"好。好。"},{"start":282.375,"end":295.094,"text":"現在你發現其實你之前的政策不錯他不斷的在下降你的篩檢率也提高不了結果你又灌了新的預算金去篩檢那我們來關心一下議員得到的這個子宮內母愛下一張欸這不能work"},{"start":298.356,"end":318.393,"text":"他是從過去1995年至今是提升10倍之多啦其中的環節其中的原因我們這個大家都是專家都知道啦肥胖啊三高啊糖尿病啊等等的所以你們不會想要在其他兩個卵巢癌跟子宮內膜癌增加他的篩檢方式嗎這篩檢方式很簡單欸"},{"start":322.793,"end":340.013,"text":"我們一直在嚴厲相關的是不是有篩檢的工具那應該要有實證的醫學本席在這邊提一下子宮內膜癌它初期的症狀其實是不正常的出血但大部分的婦女並不會把它當一回事因為月經不正常是常常發生的嘛下一張"},{"start":341.479,"end":362.245,"text":"好我們來針對這些高風險的女性如果提供適當的篩檢其實很簡單就是一個陰道超音波就可以了陰道超音波大概只多花5到10分鐘他不僅是看子宮的構造連卵巢一起看所以你多一個篩檢你還可以預防兩個腹癌而且這些腹癌人數加起來是你的子宮頸來的4到5倍欸"},{"start":369.211,"end":383.927,"text":"好,我想感謝委員關心這個主題那的確我們的癌症會隨著環境的整個變遷會有不同的incidence的發生那我想我們要以日俱增來"},{"start":386.489,"end":404.704,"text":"對所有可能發生的癌症我們都能夠全面的來找到之後我再寫一個提案提供您一個很具體的做法這也是跟許多國衛院的專家、婦外的專家以及公衛的專家一起想出來的其實這個預算金額不會很高大概8到10億但是你針對全國50到75歲的女性大約快要430萬人這些人可以提供他們更多的保護好嗎"},{"start":414.417,"end":438.379,"text":"好再來因為剛剛有講到說女性有許多癌症不管是腹癌或是其他癌症都在不斷的上升所以其實我們對這些癌症病友也很關心他們希望未來成為媽媽的願望嘛但是呢現在各縣市很多地方也有提供動卵補助可是他動卵補助沒有比預期的申請率高大家知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":441.786,"end":469.334,"text":"沒關係部長我跟你講答案就是因為我們的人工生殖法還沒有修法也是其中的一個因素因為我們的女性有偶率已經來到10年來的新低這個署長一定知道48%的人是有偶的可是現在的人工生殖法如果你不去修正它的話它除非未來有找到對象不然它永遠沒有辦法使用自己的卵子OK嗎"},{"start":470.734,"end":470.874,"text":"好,下一張"},{"start":487.2,"end":514.093,"text":"這邊有講到說剛剛那位委員曾經也在這個場域啊講過說為什麼我們不植入5顆胚胎我在這邊也看到說國健署很細心在代孕的環節有規定代理孕母每一次只能植幾顆胚胎為限好這一點的話我希望當然大家很關心代理孕母也可以同樣把它援引到不管是同性伴侶或是單身女性這個部分"},{"start":514.833,"end":524.891,"text":"其實我們也可以根據現在人工生殖的技術發展還有懷孕的成功率我們逐項的訂定胚胎植入數的標準這一點可以做到嗎?"},{"start":527.644,"end":544.789,"text":"對,署長應該很了解因為署長自從推了試管嬰兒補助以後其實對我們國家的多胞胎率下降貢獻非常大對,但是現在只有零補助的人會被規定植入科宿沒有零補助的人他想植有的人想"},{"start":545.669,"end":546.65,"text":"不好意思主席,抱歉"},{"start":565.367,"end":588.686,"text":"再來也是這幾天大家很關心的部長您應該知道一一三年憲法判決第八號說如果這個精神科醫師在發現這個加害人有重大的精神心智缺陷不得執行死刑好我們看這個臉書他是一個火車刺警案的鑑定醫師他被大出征啊"},{"start":589.875,"end":608.164,"text":"他自從鑑定這個加害人有精神疾病以後他在網路上被出征他連基本的人身安全都沒有部長你也是醫生救人是醫生的天職你認為替死刑犯判定精神狀況是不是有違醫師的倫理"},{"start":611.693,"end":636.385,"text":"這可能針對整個社會的狀況以及現在醫學的發展那我想我們還是要請醫學會的專家我跟你說醫學會的專家世界精神醫學會在1996年馬德里宣言2023年日內瓦宣言都有講過說在任何情況下精神科醫師不應該執行死刑能力的鑑定第二"},{"start":637.445,"end":661.37,"text":"對於各種精神病患精神科醫師都應該積極協助法律上無法為自己有效防禦辯護不足足夠能力承擔法律責任的人好現在呢他好好的在醫學系想說要成為這個精神科醫師心理科醫師只為了幫助社會卻變成全民公審的對象或者是頭號罪人"},{"start":662.61,"end":683.258,"text":"這個判決下去以後精神科醫師如果他說他有問題有精神病不得執行死刑就變成頭號公題如果他說好他沒有精神病他沒問題就違反當初的醫師誓言嘛因為他就有可能會有執行死刑的問題這一點你怎麼看你是不是應該要出來為醫生講幾句話"},{"start":686.997,"end":704.91,"text":"我想我當醫學院的教授當了幾十年一定是堅守Hippocratic醫師誓言的那個教學但是醫師是不是對社會也有一定的責任對社會的公平正義"},{"start":705.942,"end":706.823,"text":"現在全國有151間的醫療單位可以做司法的精神鑑定"},{"start":721.053,"end":745.294,"text":"我們在這個審判中保護兩兆的基本人權是天經地義的嘛不管是加害人或是被害人可是誰來保護這些提供精神鑑定的醫療人員這邊提供一些國外的做法給部長參考一下比如說在國外不管是加害人或被害人或是檢方或是法官雙方各自聘請不同的專家"},{"start":746.255,"end":769.864,"text":"比如說曾經這個刺殺雷根總統的案子請了4個鑑定專家還有挪威的大屠殺兩邊各請了兩個專家所以他們在反覆的辯證中論述也會不同這樣可以分擔鑑定人員的心理壓力所以在這邊可以請部長具體的承諾您可以在一個月內給本席答覆可以跟司法司法體系來溝通嗎"},{"start":772.452,"end":783.709,"text":"好,我想這個都我們一直在溝通,一直在溝通,所以1個月會提進度報告。好,主席,最後一題,最後一題,你先坐啦,你先坐啦,最後一題啦。"},{"start":786.691,"end":812.882,"text":"好既然我們現在的量能不足既然我們現在的量能不足部長本來小英總統說呢要投入400億來完善司法精神醫療服務目標2025年要做到480床結果現在只有30床你的達成率是6%那未來呢我們只會需要更多這樣子的機構你知不知道這些有多高的比例是反社會人格"},{"start":815.393,"end":816.537,"text":"包圍我們到這個月底會開到102床會繼續努力"},{"start":821.072,"end":845.203,"text":"好你距離480床還是很遙遠這邊有一個報告是你們自己做的我也這邊具體建議部長可以讀一下你們很明確的在全民心理健康任性計畫裡面提到60%收治的精神病患中有反社會人格所以這些人如果沒有在完整的司法精神體系內他出來只會越來越嚴重"},{"start":846.476,"end":849.908,"text":"好嗎?好,這個本期會繼續追下去。謝謝主席,謝謝主席。"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:37:14 - 09:51:27","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155272,"gazette":{"lineno":184,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時37分）部長，不好意思，你都坐不到1分鐘，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，我是接著陳委員繼續問，因為今天要質詢您的議題真的很廣泛，今天召委給我們排的問題太多了，其實你要我問人工生殖法、少子化，我問三天三夜也可以。"],["邱部長泰源：委員，您是專家。"],["陳委員菁徽：但是我覺得我最近真的很像執政黨的委員了，因為我拼命在幫你們辯護，也希望你們可以勇敢的拿出guts好嗎？我現在覺得我比執政黨委員還像執政黨委員。當然剛剛說我們已經蹉跎了30年，但是我覺得有一個優點，就是我們希望可以在這個任期做出一點推進，因為人工生殖第一、進步非常的多；第二、其實經過30年的討論，我看過國健署的版本，我在這邊非常的讚許國健署，因為他們把世界各國缺點都改過了，他們發現有些衝比較快的國家的確有缺點，改掉了，現在是用最嚴謹的方法在制定人工生殖法，我們看過很多國家經歷的事，也知道哪些事要避免，所以往英國、美國、加拿大、澳洲，這些法規劃非常嚴格的國家在學習，這點必須要肯定。","我也看了過去20到30年，在今天這個場域有發言過的委員，他們關於人工生殖法的發言，我在這邊必須要說，從醫學專業來看，畢竟這邊我們有很多都是學科學、學醫學的人，女權還有社會議題跟醫學是沒有辦法相互解釋的。剛剛陳昭姿委員提到的女權前輩，他在這個場域曾經說過我們醫學專家難以置信的話，他有一天在這邊咆哮說：憑什麼50歲的女人不能捐卵？他居然講出這句話，你認同嗎？而且他對於胚胎植入的顆數也有他自己很獨特的看法。","部長，我先預告，今天好像有三十幾個委員要問，您等一下可能會遇到一些砲火，但是我們必須要根據國際最新的醫療期刊、國際最新的數據，還有人工生殖的科技是像火箭式每年在增長的，我們要用最新的科學數據告訴大家，為什麼這些人工生殖法的修正草案是這樣一筆一筆的訂出來的，好嗎？這是一個普世價值，其實不分黨派，很多委員都跟我諮詢過，不管是單身女性、男同志伴侶、女同志伴侶、子宮有問題的，不分黨派喔！都跟我諮詢過了，所以其實這是一個臺灣目前普世價值的問題，部長，你一定要堅持住，好嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：是，我已經堅持到民眾最大的權益，還有當然少數民眾的需求，我們一定要重視，然後在倫理、在社會的……"],["陳委員菁徽：你也要相信你的國健署，你的國健署已經花了很多的心思在做這個修正草案了，非常多。"],["邱部長泰源：對，他們掌握得非常清楚。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，剛好國健署署長也在這邊，我要關心一下婦癌的議題，因為最近這幾週有一位我們議員的前輩──許議員因為子宮內膜癌過世，所以我認為在環境荷爾蒙不斷地上升，還有我們的飲食改變，高齡化、三高、糖尿病等等，還有很多不孕症的疾病，其實已經讓我們的婦癌分布有所改變了，因此婦癌的篩檢其實需要做一些調整。您是家醫科醫師，這方面您是專家，對不對？之前其實您訂定得很好，不管是抹片、HPV的檢查或HPV的疫苗，你看，關於子宮頸癌的死亡率跟發生率是大幅下降的，現在每年是1,100個人。好，那為什麼子宮頸癌的參與率不會上升呢？這個署長一定已經很熟了，為什麼？為什麼？"],["吳署長昭軍：這是統計，假設是累計已經做過的，大概做過的數目就跟這個統計不一樣，這是每一年的量，對於這件事情，的確有一些年輕的人是比較缺乏這樣的健康意識。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，現在你發現其實之前的政策不錯，它不斷在下降，你的篩檢率也提高不了了，結果你又灌了新的預算進去篩檢。那我們來關心一下許議員得到的子宮內膜癌，它從過去1995年至今提升10倍之多，其中的原因大家都是專家，都知道是因為肥胖、三高、糖尿病等等的，所以你們不會想要在其他兩個──卵巢癌跟子宮內膜癌增加它的篩檢方式嗎？這個篩檢方式很簡單耶！"],["吳署長昭軍：我們一直在研議是不是有相關的篩檢工具，也應該要有……"],["陳委員菁徽：本席在這邊提一下，子宮內膜癌初期症狀其實是不正常的出血，但大部分的婦女並不會把它當一回事，因為月經不正常是常常發生的。如果要針對這些高風險的女性提供適當的篩檢，其實很簡單，就是一個陰道超音波就可以了。陰道超音波大概只多花5到10分鐘，它不僅是看子宮的構造，連卵巢一起看，所以多一個篩檢可以預防兩個婦癌，而且這些婦癌人數加起來是子宮頸癌的4到5倍耶！"],["邱部長泰源：好，感謝委員關心這個主題，的確，我們的癌症會隨著整個環境的變遷而有不同的instance發生……"],["陳委員菁徽：對。"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們要與日俱增，對所有可能發生的癌症都能夠全面地來……"],["陳委員菁徽：好，之後我再寫一個提案，提供你一個很具體的做法，這也是跟許多國衛院的專家、婦癌的專家以及公衛的專家一起想出來的，其實這個預算金額不會很高，大概8到10億，但是可以針對全國50歲到75歲的女性大約快要430萬人，為這些人提供更多的保護，好嗎？","再來，因為剛剛講到女性有許多癌症，不管是婦癌或其他癌症，都在不斷的上升，我們其實對這些癌症病友很關心，因為他們希望自己未來能成為媽媽，有這樣的願望，現在各縣市很多地方也有提供凍卵補助，可是凍卵補助並沒有比預期的申請率高，大家知道為什麼嗎？","沒關係，部長，我跟你講答案，我們的人工生殖法還沒有修法也是其中的一個因素，因為我們女性的有偶率已經達到10年來的新低，這個署長一定知道，48%的人是有偶的，可是現在的人工生殖法如果不去修正的話，除非未來有找到對象，不然他永遠沒有辦法使用自己的卵子，OK嗎？所以這件事情必須搭配人工生殖法的修正，才可以讓全國不管是醫療性凍卵的補助或是社會性凍卵的補助，可以更加落實，幫助我們解決少子化的困境。","賴惠員委員曾經也在這個場域講過，為什麼我們不植入5顆胚胎？我也看到國健署很細心，在代孕的環節中，有規定代理孕母每次植入只能以幾顆胚胎為限。大家當然很關心代理孕母，這一點我希望也可以同樣把它援引到不管是同性伴侶或是單身女性的部分，其實我們也可以根據現在人工生殖的技術發展還有懷孕的成功率，逐項訂定胚胎植入數的標準，這一點可以做到嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：是，我們就是按照這樣的標準。"],["陳委員菁徽：署長應該很瞭解，因為署長自從推了試管嬰兒補助以後，其實對我們國家的多胞胎率下降貢獻非常大，但是現在只有領補助的人會被規定植入顆數，沒有領補助的，有人想植2顆、3顆，都還沒有詳細地訂定進去，所以也希望未來我們就拿到本委員會來一起討論、逐條討論好嗎？","接下來是這幾天大家很關心的，部長應該知道，113年憲法判決第8號：如果精神科醫師發現加害人有重大的精神、心智缺陷，不得執行死刑。根據本席現在出示的臉書，一個火車刺警的鑑定醫師被大出征，他說自從鑑定加害人有精神疾病以後，就在網路上被出征，連基本的人身安全都沒有。部長，你也是醫生，救人是醫生的天職，你認為替死刑犯判定精神狀況是不是有違醫師倫理？"],["邱部長泰源：這可能要針對整個社會的狀況以及醫學的發展，我想我們還是要請醫學會的專家來好好討論一下。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，醫學會的專家。我跟你說，世界精神醫學會在1996年馬德里宣言、2023年日內瓦宣言都有講過，在任何情況下，精神科醫師不應該執行死刑能力的鑑定；第二，對於各種精神病患，精神科醫師都應該積極協助法律上無法為自己有效防禦、辯護，沒有足夠能力承擔法律責任的人。好，現在他好好地在醫學系講說要成為精神科醫師、心理科醫師，只為了幫助社會，卻變成全民公審的對象或者是頭號罪人。這個判決下去以後，精神科醫師如果說他有問題、有精神病，不得執行死刑，就變成頭號公敵；如果他說好，他沒有精神病、他沒問題，就違反當初的醫師誓言嘛！因為他就有可能會有執行死刑的問題。這一點你怎麼看？你是不是應該出來為醫生講幾句話？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我當醫學院的教授當了幾十年，一定是堅守Hippocratic Oath（醫師誓言）的教學，但是醫師是不是對社會也有一定的責任、對社會的公平正義是不是能夠協助，這個部分我覺得醫界可以再坐下來談一下。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，我提供您一個具體的做法，現在全國有151間醫療單位可以做司法的精神鑑定，我們在審判中保護兩造的基本人權是天經地義的，不管是加害人或是被害人，可是誰來保護這些提供精神鑑定的醫療人員？這邊提供一些國外的做法給部長參考一下：在國外，不管是加害人、被害人或是檢方、法官，雙方各自聘請不同的專家，比如說刺殺雷根總統的案子曾經請了4個鑑定專家，還有挪威的大屠殺，兩邊各請了兩個專家，他們在反覆的辯證中，論述也會不同，這樣可以分擔鑑定人員的心理壓力。所以在這邊請部長具體承諾，您可以在一個月內給本席答復，可以跟司法體系來溝通嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我想這個部分我們一直在溝通，所以一個月內可以提進度報告。"],["陳委員菁徽：主席，最後一題。既然我們現在量能不足，部長，本來小英總統說要投入400億來完善司法精神醫療服務，目標是2025年要做到480床，結果現在只有30床，達成率是6%，未來我們只會需要更多這樣子的機構，你知不知道這些有多高的比例是反社會人格？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們到這個月底會開到102床，會繼續努力。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，你距離480床還是很遙遠。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊有一個報告是你們自己做的，我也具體建議部長可以讀一下，你們很明確的在全民心理健康韌性計畫裡面提到，60%收治的精神病患中有反社會人格，所以這些人如果沒有在完整的司法精神體系內，他出來只會越來越嚴重，好嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：這個本席會繼續追下去，謝謝主席。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員、謝謝部長。我想請衛福部這邊就人工生殖法稍微催一下，我想在這個會期能逐條討論，送出委員會。","接續我們請廖偉翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}}