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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,857 --> 00:00:10,537\n農業部陳部長李院長\n\n2\n00:00:21,403 --> 00:00:47,677\n我們114年的預算是戰不列案是所有的農業部我們要所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的是不是所以你們不要把說這個退回預算就會影響你們的作業我想跟委員說明這個是要先跟部長講清楚我要跟委員說明喔延續性的是可以繼續執行但是新增的新增的計畫還有新興的計畫\n\n3\n00:00:51,203 --> 00:00:51,363\n委員會理念\n\n4\n00:01:13,695 --> 00:01:18,558\n部長今天是你們的夜報那夜報的話本身就要跟你先講清楚一下\n\n5\n00:01:44,135 --> 00:02:01,588\n進口雞蛋這個標示這個期限是假的期限誤導我們的民眾還有就是把這個進口雞蛋做成蛋液還跟我們的標示地產地也標示成台灣這些爭議讓民眾對於這食安有很大的疑慮\n\n6\n00:02:02,449 --> 00:02:02,469\n〔記者訪問〕\n\n7\n00:02:21,058 --> 00:02:43,073\n可是你8月份就跟他有合作關係而且沒有合約內容就是用電話議價就給他們做了在這種情形之下發生這個疑慮之下部長你還幫他護航但是現在檢調單位開始已經調查了那如果說調查出他確實罪證確鑿有違法你會再為他們護航\n\n8\n00:02:47,369 --> 00:03:15,136\n不過我想跟委員說明齁你剛剛所提到的資訊齁把111年跟112年齁混在一起講112年的時候超私是有合約的那個時候外界質疑說超私一人公司沒有能力去組織別說你是跟量財有合約那量財的時候是3到5月的時候後來你跟超私超私是8月到11月但是8月他超私還沒有成立所以\n\n9\n00:03:15,876 --> 00:03:16,036\n社會大眾一個一個\n\n10\n00:03:45,252 --> 00:04:06,843\n公開的一個真相也要如果說你沒有的話也會還你公道要真相給社會交代好不好那最重要是因為當時在這個量產的時候你給他的這個每顆雞蛋是6.9元到了超市的時候你就給他7.39元這個是不是有圖列清醒為什麼一個3到5月一個是8到11月\n\n11\n00:04:07,861 --> 00:04:24,140\n不過我想整個的一個一個程序其實檢調在調查那針對3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會不一樣因為我們是用買斷的方式不是用合約的方式那價格的差異到底差合不合理因為也要考慮到當時的這些\n\n12\n00:04:25,441 --> 00:04:49,612\n你當時的價格是這個同年度一個3到5月你現在差不到幾個月你價格就變動了是沒有福利嗎111年的時候那禽流感的時候在111年9月以後那個是日本包括日本也大爆發所以那個時候的價格我們現在沒辦法回應3到5月你的合約的價格跟到8到11月的合約這差到是111年的事情嗎所以你要據時針對這所有的情形\n\n13\n00:04:50,692 --> 00:04:56,896\n本席是跟部長講說現在這個雞蛋你不是這個價格的問題你還有的就是處理這個過期這個銷毀的雞蛋5429萬顆雞蛋你花了5億2997萬元這些都是你花費出去的不管你冷凍鏈你的運輸你的這個銷毀的都花了這些錢你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求\n\n14\n00:05:17,367 --> 00:05:27,021\n民間的去跟國外購買的或是你們政府去賞會去購買的這整體的總需求量你們都沒有控管白白花掉這些國人民的公帑呢\n\n15\n00:05:28,229 --> 00:05:53,494\n我跟委員說明齁當初在整個蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋那個在那個時間點不知道那個疫情會延到多久所以在整個的採購的過程中有一部分是當作部長不能推脫職責不能知道疫情會多久但是你知道每天的供需量啊每天供需量你的緩衝期的是3個月需要多少量這可以統整出來的雞蛋有它的期限欸\n\n16\n00:05:54,674 --> 00:06:04,341\n所以你們都是非常在農業部這個整個當任這麼久的公職工作非常清楚整個產業的需求沒有掌握住這個\n\n17\n00:06:28,615 --> 00:06:49,860\n國土計畫法在明年就要執行了,在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上,部長你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施嗎?我想我要跟委員說明,就是國土計畫它其實它的原來的國土規劃就是對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化\n\n18\n00:06:50,760 --> 00:07:09,049\n但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到那個內政部來審都要看我們的農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來那我在外已經跟外界講了農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變\n\n19\n00:07:09,969 --> 00:07:12,870\n這個為什麼會請教你就是因為很多我們的農地從農一到農五他的很多的規劃還有特定農地的就等等\n\n20\n00:07:54,767 --> 00:07:54,787\n：呂玲\n\n21\n00:08:24,833 --> 00:08:49,973\n我跟委員說明,我還是說一句就是我們的農業的堆疊式給付是我們為了讓我們的農營首遍堆地農地的一個貢獻那有關於您剛才講的就是桃園大溪谷裡面有些地要去做變更那相對在國土計畫裡面它也有相關的規範所以我們後續會持續跟縣市府做溝通國土計畫不是絕對的值就是農業要多少、農業要多少\n\n22\n00:08:50,433 --> 00:08:50,613\n李玉玲委員\n\n23\n00:09:21,656 --> 00:09:21,756\n部長請會座\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9857\t10537\t農業部陳部長李院長\n21403\t47677\t我們114年的預算是戰不列案是所有的農業部我們要所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的是不是所以你們不要把說這個退回預算就會影響你們的作業我想跟委員說明這個是要先跟部長講清楚我要跟委員說明喔延續性的是可以繼續執行但是新增的新增的計畫還有新興的計畫\n51203\t51363\t委員會理念\n73695\t78558\t部長今天是你們的夜報那夜報的話本身就要跟你先講清楚一下\n104135\t121588\t進口雞蛋這個標示這個期限是假的期限誤導我們的民眾還有就是把這個進口雞蛋做成蛋液還跟我們的標示地產地也標示成台灣這些爭議讓民眾對於這食安有很大的疑慮\n122449\t122469\t〔記者訪問〕\n141058\t163073\t可是你8月份就跟他有合作關係而且沒有合約內容就是用電話議價就給他們做了在這種情形之下發生這個疑慮之下部長你還幫他護航但是現在檢調單位開始已經調查了那如果說調查出他確實罪證確鑿有違法你會再為他們護航\n167369\t195136\t不過我想跟委員說明齁你剛剛所提到的資訊齁把111年跟112年齁混在一起講112年的時候超私是有合約的那個時候外界質疑說超私一人公司沒有能力去組織別說你是跟量財有合約那量財的時候是3到5月的時候後來你跟超私超私是8月到11月但是8月他超私還沒有成立所以\n195876\t196036\t社會大眾一個一個\n225252\t246843\t公開的一個真相也要如果說你沒有的話也會還你公道要真相給社會交代好不好那最重要是因為當時在這個量產的時候你給他的這個每顆雞蛋是6.9元到了超市的時候你就給他7.39元這個是不是有圖列清醒為什麼一個3到5月一個是8到11月\n247861\t264140\t不過我想整個的一個一個程序其實檢調在調查那針對3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會不一樣因為我們是用買斷的方式不是用合約的方式那價格的差異到底差合不合理因為也要考慮到當時的這些\n265441\t289612\t你當時的價格是這個同年度一個3到5月你現在差不到幾個月你價格就變動了是沒有福利嗎111年的時候那禽流感的時候在111年9月以後那個是日本包括日本也大爆發所以那個時候的價格我們現在沒辦法回應3到5月你的合約的價格跟到8到11月的合約這差到是111年的事情嗎所以你要據時針對這所有的情形\n290692\t296896\t本席是跟部長講說現在這個雞蛋你不是這個價格的問題你還有的就是處理這個過期這個銷毀的雞蛋5429萬顆雞蛋你花了5億2997萬元這些都是你花費出去的不管你冷凍鏈你的運輸你的這個銷毀的都花了這些錢你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求\n317367\t327021\t民間的去跟國外購買的或是你們政府去賞會去購買的這整體的總需求量你們都沒有控管白白花掉這些國人民的公帑呢\n328229\t353494\t我跟委員說明齁當初在整個蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋那個在那個時間點不知道那個疫情會延到多久所以在整個的採購的過程中有一部分是當作部長不能推脫職責不能知道疫情會多久但是你知道每天的供需量啊每天供需量你的緩衝期的是3個月需要多少量這可以統整出來的雞蛋有它的期限欸\n354674\t364341\t所以你們都是非常在農業部這個整個當任這麼久的公職工作非常清楚整個產業的需求沒有掌握住這個\n388615\t409860\t國土計畫法在明年就要執行了,在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上,部長你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施嗎?我想我要跟委員說明,就是國土計畫它其實它的原來的國土規劃就是對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化\n410760\t429049\t但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到那個內政部來審都要看我們的農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來那我在外已經跟外界講了農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變\n429969\t432870\t這個為什麼會請教你就是因為很多我們的農地從農一到農五他的很多的規劃還有特定農地的就等等\n445316\t474667\t﹚議員：\n474767\t474787\t：呂玲\n504833\t529973\t我跟委員說明,我還是說一句就是我們的農業的堆疊式給付是我們為了讓我們的農營首遍堆地農地的一個貢獻那有關於您剛才講的就是桃園大溪谷裡面有些地要去做變更那相對在國土計畫裡面它也有相關的規範所以我們後續會持續跟縣市府做溝通國土計畫不是絕對的值就是農業要多少、農業要多少\n530433\t530613\t李玉玲委員\n561656\t561756\t部長請會座\n","txt":"農業部陳部長李院長\n我們114年的預算是戰不列案是所有的農業部我們要所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的是不是所以你們不要把說這個退回預算就會影響你們的作業我想跟委員說明這個是要先跟部長講清楚我要跟委員說明喔延續性的是可以繼續執行但是新增的新增的計畫還有新興的計畫\n委員會理念\n部長今天是你們的夜報那夜報的話本身就要跟你先講清楚一下\n進口雞蛋這個標示這個期限是假的期限誤導我們的民眾還有就是把這個進口雞蛋做成蛋液還跟我們的標示地產地也標示成台灣這些爭議讓民眾對於這食安有很大的疑慮\n〔記者訪問〕\n可是你8月份就跟他有合作關係而且沒有合約內容就是用電話議價就給他們做了在這種情形之下發生這個疑慮之下部長你還幫他護航但是現在檢調單位開始已經調查了那如果說調查出他確實罪證確鑿有違法你會再為他們護航\n不過我想跟委員說明齁你剛剛所提到的資訊齁把111年跟112年齁混在一起講112年的時候超私是有合約的那個時候外界質疑說超私一人公司沒有能力去組織別說你是跟量財有合約那量財的時候是3到5月的時候後來你跟超私超私是8月到11月但是8月他超私還沒有成立所以\n社會大眾一個一個\n公開的一個真相也要如果說你沒有的話也會還你公道要真相給社會交代好不好那最重要是因為當時在這個量產的時候你給他的這個每顆雞蛋是6.9元到了超市的時候你就給他7.39元這個是不是有圖列清醒為什麼一個3到5月一個是8到11月\n不過我想整個的一個一個程序其實檢調在調查那針對3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會不一樣因為我們是用買斷的方式不是用合約的方式那價格的差異到底差合不合理因為也要考慮到當時的這些\n你當時的價格是這個同年度一個3到5月你現在差不到幾個月你價格就變動了是沒有福利嗎111年的時候那禽流感的時候在111年9月以後那個是日本包括日本也大爆發所以那個時候的價格我們現在沒辦法回應3到5月你的合約的價格跟到8到11月的合約這差到是111年的事情嗎所以你要據時針對這所有的情形\n本席是跟部長講說現在這個雞蛋你不是這個價格的問題你還有的就是處理這個過期這個銷毀的雞蛋5429萬顆雞蛋你花了5億2997萬元這些都是你花費出去的不管你冷凍鏈你的運輸你的這個銷毀的都花了這些錢你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求\n民間的去跟國外購買的或是你們政府去賞會去購買的這整體的總需求量你們都沒有控管白白花掉這些國人民的公帑呢\n我跟委員說明齁當初在整個蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋那個在那個時間點不知道那個疫情會延到多久所以在整個的採購的過程中有一部分是當作部長不能推脫職責不能知道疫情會多久但是你知道每天的供需量啊每天供需量你的緩衝期的是3個月需要多少量這可以統整出來的雞蛋有它的期限欸\n所以你們都是非常在農業部這個整個當任這麼久的公職工作非常清楚整個產業的需求沒有掌握住這個\n國土計畫法在明年就要執行了,在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上,部長你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施嗎?我想我要跟委員說明,就是國土計畫它其實它的原來的國土規劃就是對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化\n但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到那個內政部來審都要看我們的農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來那我在外已經跟外界講了農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變\n這個為什麼會請教你就是因為很多我們的農地從農一到農五他的很多的規劃還有特定農地的就等等\n﹚議員：\n：呂玲\n我跟委員說明,我還是說一句就是我們的農業的堆疊式給付是我們為了讓我們的農營首遍堆地農地的一個貢獻那有關於您剛才講的就是桃園大溪谷裡面有些地要去做變更那相對在國土計畫裡面它也有相關的規範所以我們後續會持續跟縣市府做溝通國土計畫不是絕對的值就是農業要多少、農業要多少\n李玉玲委員\n部長請會座\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.857 --> 00:10.537\n農業部陳部長李院長\n\n00:21.403 --> 00:47.677\n我們114年的預算是戰不列案是所有的農業部我們要所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的是不是所以你們不要把說這個退回預算就會影響你們的作業我想跟委員說明這個是要先跟部長講清楚我要跟委員說明喔延續性的是可以繼續執行但是新增的新增的計畫還有新興的計畫\n\n00:51.203 --> 00:51.363\n委員會理念\n\n01:13.695 --> 01:18.558\n部長今天是你們的夜報那夜報的話本身就要跟你先講清楚一下\n\n01:44.135 --> 02:01.588\n進口雞蛋這個標示這個期限是假的期限誤導我們的民眾還有就是把這個進口雞蛋做成蛋液還跟我們的標示地產地也標示成台灣這些爭議讓民眾對於這食安有很大的疑慮\n\n02:02.449 --> 02:02.469\n〔記者訪問〕\n\n02:21.058 --> 02:43.073\n可是你8月份就跟他有合作關係而且沒有合約內容就是用電話議價就給他們做了在這種情形之下發生這個疑慮之下部長你還幫他護航但是現在檢調單位開始已經調查了那如果說調查出他確實罪證確鑿有違法你會再為他們護航\n\n02:47.369 --> 03:15.136\n不過我想跟委員說明齁你剛剛所提到的資訊齁把111年跟112年齁混在一起講112年的時候超私是有合約的那個時候外界質疑說超私一人公司沒有能力去組織別說你是跟量財有合約那量財的時候是3到5月的時候後來你跟超私超私是8月到11月但是8月他超私還沒有成立所以\n\n03:15.876 --> 03:16.036\n社會大眾一個一個\n\n03:45.252 --> 04:06.843\n公開的一個真相也要如果說你沒有的話也會還你公道要真相給社會交代好不好那最重要是因為當時在這個量產的時候你給他的這個每顆雞蛋是6.9元到了超市的時候你就給他7.39元這個是不是有圖列清醒為什麼一個3到5月一個是8到11月\n\n04:07.861 --> 04:24.140\n不過我想整個的一個一個程序其實檢調在調查那針對3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會不一樣因為我們是用買斷的方式不是用合約的方式那價格的差異到底差合不合理因為也要考慮到當時的這些\n\n04:25.441 --> 04:49.612\n你當時的價格是這個同年度一個3到5月你現在差不到幾個月你價格就變動了是沒有福利嗎111年的時候那禽流感的時候在111年9月以後那個是日本包括日本也大爆發所以那個時候的價格我們現在沒辦法回應3到5月你的合約的價格跟到8到11月的合約這差到是111年的事情嗎所以你要據時針對這所有的情形\n\n04:50.692 --> 04:56.896\n本席是跟部長講說現在這個雞蛋你不是這個價格的問題你還有的就是處理這個過期這個銷毀的雞蛋5429萬顆雞蛋你花了5億2997萬元這些都是你花費出去的不管你冷凍鏈你的運輸你的這個銷毀的都花了這些錢你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求\n\n05:17.367 --> 05:27.021\n民間的去跟國外購買的或是你們政府去賞會去購買的這整體的總需求量你們都沒有控管白白花掉這些國人民的公帑呢\n\n05:28.229 --> 05:53.494\n我跟委員說明齁當初在整個蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋那個在那個時間點不知道那個疫情會延到多久所以在整個的採購的過程中有一部分是當作部長不能推脫職責不能知道疫情會多久但是你知道每天的供需量啊每天供需量你的緩衝期的是3個月需要多少量這可以統整出來的雞蛋有它的期限欸\n\n05:54.674 --> 06:04.341\n所以你們都是非常在農業部這個整個當任這麼久的公職工作非常清楚整個產業的需求沒有掌握住這個\n\n06:28.615 --> 06:49.860\n國土計畫法在明年就要執行了,在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上,部長你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施嗎?我想我要跟委員說明,就是國土計畫它其實它的原來的國土規劃就是對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化\n\n06:50.760 --> 07:09.049\n但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到那個內政部來審都要看我們的農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來那我在外已經跟外界講了農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變\n\n07:09.969 --> 07:12.870\n這個為什麼會請教你就是因為很多我們的農地從農一到農五他的很多的規劃還有特定農地的就等等\n\n07:54.767 --> 07:54.787\n：呂玲\n\n08:24.833 --> 08:49.973\n我跟委員說明,我還是說一句就是我們的農業的堆疊式給付是我們為了讓我們的農營首遍堆地農地的一個貢獻那有關於您剛才講的就是桃園大溪谷裡面有些地要去做變更那相對在國土計畫裡面它也有相關的規範所以我們後續會持續跟縣市府做溝通國土計畫不是絕對的值就是農業要多少、農業要多少\n\n08:50.433 --> 08:50.613\n李玉玲委員\n\n09:21.656 --> 09:21.756\n部長請會座\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.857,"end":10.537,"text":"農業部陳部長李院長"},{"start":21.403,"end":47.677,"text":"我們114年的預算是戰不列案是所有的農業部我們要所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的是不是所以你們不要把說這個退回預算就會影響你們的作業我想跟委員說明這個是要先跟部長講清楚我要跟委員說明喔延續性的是可以繼續執行但是新增的新增的計畫還有新興的計畫"},{"start":51.203,"end":51.363,"text":"委員會理念"},{"start":73.695,"end":78.558,"text":"部長今天是你們的夜報那夜報的話本身就要跟你先講清楚一下"},{"start":104.135,"end":121.588,"text":"進口雞蛋這個標示這個期限是假的期限誤導我們的民眾還有就是把這個進口雞蛋做成蛋液還跟我們的標示地產地也標示成台灣這些爭議讓民眾對於這食安有很大的疑慮"},{"start":122.449,"end":122.469,"text":"〔記者訪問〕"},{"start":141.058,"end":163.073,"text":"可是你8月份就跟他有合作關係而且沒有合約內容就是用電話議價就給他們做了在這種情形之下發生這個疑慮之下部長你還幫他護航但是現在檢調單位開始已經調查了那如果說調查出他確實罪證確鑿有違法你會再為他們護航"},{"start":167.369,"end":195.136,"text":"不過我想跟委員說明齁你剛剛所提到的資訊齁把111年跟112年齁混在一起講112年的時候超私是有合約的那個時候外界質疑說超私一人公司沒有能力去組織別說你是跟量財有合約那量財的時候是3到5月的時候後來你跟超私超私是8月到11月但是8月他超私還沒有成立所以"},{"start":195.876,"end":196.036,"text":"社會大眾一個一個"},{"start":225.252,"end":246.843,"text":"公開的一個真相也要如果說你沒有的話也會還你公道要真相給社會交代好不好那最重要是因為當時在這個量產的時候你給他的這個每顆雞蛋是6.9元到了超市的時候你就給他7.39元這個是不是有圖列清醒為什麼一個3到5月一個是8到11月"},{"start":247.861,"end":264.14,"text":"不過我想整個的一個一個程序其實檢調在調查那針對3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會不一樣因為我們是用買斷的方式不是用合約的方式那價格的差異到底差合不合理因為也要考慮到當時的這些"},{"start":265.441,"end":289.612,"text":"你當時的價格是這個同年度一個3到5月你現在差不到幾個月你價格就變動了是沒有福利嗎111年的時候那禽流感的時候在111年9月以後那個是日本包括日本也大爆發所以那個時候的價格我們現在沒辦法回應3到5月你的合約的價格跟到8到11月的合約這差到是111年的事情嗎所以你要據時針對這所有的情形"},{"start":290.692,"end":296.896,"text":"本席是跟部長講說現在這個雞蛋你不是這個價格的問題你還有的就是處理這個過期這個銷毀的雞蛋5429萬顆雞蛋你花了5億2997萬元這些都是你花費出去的不管你冷凍鏈你的運輸你的這個銷毀的都花了這些錢你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求"},{"start":317.367,"end":327.021,"text":"民間的去跟國外購買的或是你們政府去賞會去購買的這整體的總需求量你們都沒有控管白白花掉這些國人民的公帑呢"},{"start":328.229,"end":353.494,"text":"我跟委員說明齁當初在整個蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋那個在那個時間點不知道那個疫情會延到多久所以在整個的採購的過程中有一部分是當作部長不能推脫職責不能知道疫情會多久但是你知道每天的供需量啊每天供需量你的緩衝期的是3個月需要多少量這可以統整出來的雞蛋有它的期限欸"},{"start":354.674,"end":364.341,"text":"所以你們都是非常在農業部這個整個當任這麼久的公職工作非常清楚整個產業的需求沒有掌握住這個"},{"start":388.615,"end":409.86,"text":"國土計畫法在明年就要執行了,在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上,部長你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施嗎?我想我要跟委員說明,就是國土計畫它其實它的原來的國土規劃就是對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化"},{"start":410.76,"end":429.049,"text":"但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到那個內政部來審都要看我們的農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來那我在外已經跟外界講了農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變"},{"start":429.969,"end":432.87,"text":"這個為什麼會請教你就是因為很多我們的農地從農一到農五他的很多的規劃還有特定農地的就等等"},{"start":445.316,"end":474.667,"text":"﹚議員："},{"start":474.767,"end":474.787,"text":"：呂玲"},{"start":504.833,"end":529.973,"text":"我跟委員說明,我還是說一句就是我們的農業的堆疊式給付是我們為了讓我們的農營首遍堆地農地的一個貢獻那有關於您剛才講的就是桃園大溪谷裡面有些地要去做變更那相對在國土計畫裡面它也有相關的規範所以我們後續會持續跟縣市府做溝通國土計畫不是絕對的值就是農業要多少、農業要多少"},{"start":530.433,"end":530.613,"text":"李玉玲委員"},{"start":561.656,"end":561.756,"text":"部長請會座"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-4","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:49:18 - 09:58:42","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155275,"gazette":{"lineno":196,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（9時49分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：請農業部陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：呂委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長早。我們114年的預算是暫不列案，但農業部所有的預算花費都是可以去執行的，是不是？所以你們不要說退回預算就會影響你們的作業，這個是要先跟部長講清楚的。"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員說明，延續性的是可以繼續執行，但是新增的計畫還有新興的計畫是不能執行的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們趕快把預算整個調整過再送過來，我們就可以趕快審，是暫時不列案而已，只是暫時，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們還是請委員能夠儘速的將這個……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們也要調整，我們趕快來審查就是了，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：在委員會裡面委員質詢時，我們會針對每一筆經費是怎麼用跟委員來做說明。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。部長，今天是你們的業報，因為是業報，本席就要跟你先講清楚一下，由於氣候的變遷跟禽流感的影響，在2022年到2023年的時候我們的雞蛋是供不應求，為了解決蛋荒的這個缺口，所以我們有兩次用專案短期進口雞蛋，我們的畜產會進口雞蛋就是要來抑制蛋價跟穩定供應雞蛋，但是發生了進口雞蛋所標示的期限是假的期限，誤導我們的民眾，還有就是把進口雞蛋做成蛋液，還把產地也標示成臺灣，這些爭議讓民眾對於食安有很大的疑慮。而且當時超思是一個資本額只有50萬的一人公司，就可以拿到1.75億的補助，在這種情形之下，超思成立的時間是在9月份，可是你在8月份就跟它有合作關係，而且沒有合約內容，就是用電話議價，然後就給它做了，在這種情形之下產生了疑慮，部長還幫它護航，但是現在檢調單位已經開始調查了，如果調查出確實罪證確鑿、有違法，你會不會再為它護航？"],["陳部長駿季：我想跟委員說明，你剛才所提到的資訊是把111年跟112年混在一起講，在112年的時候和超思是有合約的，那時候外界質疑超思是一人公司所以沒有能力……"],["呂委員玉玲：那時候你是跟亮采有合約。"],["陳部長駿季：對，那是在……"],["呂委員玉玲：和亮采是在3到5月的時候，後來你跟超思是在8月到11月。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：但是超思在8月還沒有成立，所以現在檢調單位都在查了，我只請部長不要再護航。"],["陳部長駿季：我絕對不會。"],["呂委員玉玲：如果有確實的話，請你們就要嚴辦，應該負起應負的責任。"],["陳部長駿季：我也要慎重的跟委員說明，我們是主動送請檢調偵辦，我們也希望檢調儘速釐清，如果有不法，我絕對不會寬貸。"],["呂委員玉玲：你不要再為它背書了。"],["陳部長駿季：我們不會寬貸，然後相對的就是如果沒有什麼問題的話，我也希望還給我們同仁一個清白。"],["呂委員玉玲：給社會大眾一個公開的真相，如果你沒有的話，也會還你公道，要查出真相給社會交代，好不好？最重要的是當時在亮采的時候，你是給它每顆雞蛋6.9元元，到了超思的時候，你就給它7.39元，這個是不是有圖利的情形？為什麼？一個是在3到5月，一個是8到11月。"],["陳部長駿季：我想整個的程序其實現在檢調在調查，3到5月的價格跟8到11月的價格會有不一樣，因為我們是用買斷的方式，不是用合約的方式，那價格的差異到底合不合理，因為也要考慮到當時的這些……"],["呂委員玉玲：這是在同年度，一個是3到5月，可是才差不到幾個月，價格就變動了，這樣沒有圖利嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，在111年的時候有禽流感，在111年9月以後包括日本也大爆發，所以那個時候的價格，我們現在沒辦法回應……"],["呂委員玉玲：本席是跟你講3到5月你合約的價格，跟8到11月合約價格有差別，這是在111年的事情嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對……"],["呂委員玉玲：你要據實說明所有的情形，本席是跟部長說，現在這些雞蛋不是只有價格的問題，還有就是處理因為過期而銷毀的雞蛋，買5,429萬顆雞蛋花了5億2,997萬元，這些都是你花出去的錢，不管你的冷凍鏈、你的運輸，你進行銷毀，花掉這些錢，你當時為什麼沒有事先掌握整個需求？對民間去跟國外購買的，或是你們政府、畜產會去購買的，對這整體的總需求量你們都沒有控管，為什麼白白花掉這些人民的公帑呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，當初在有蛋荒的時候是全球都缺雞蛋，在那個時間點不知道這個疫情會延續多久，所以在整個採購的過程中，有一部分是當作庫存……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，不能推脫責任，雖然你不能知道疫情會多久，但是你知道每天的供需量啊！你的緩衝期是3個月，所以需要多少量是可以統整出來的，雞蛋有它的期限欸！你們在農業部擔任了這麼久的公職工作，非常清楚整個產業的需求，卻沒有掌握住這個。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，其實在這次處理雞蛋的過程中，我們也自我檢討了，裡面有非常多我們可以改進跟檢討的空間，特別是在行政上面、在預測上面，所以我們未來會針對這樣的部分，如果在缺蛋的時候，我們會有……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們必須要檢討，如果這件事情真的是有缺失的話，你們就應該負起這個責任，好不好？","接下來要請問的就是我們的國土計畫法在明年就要執行了，在我們農業整個的發展跟需求上，部長，你們這邊有沒有什麼配套的措施？"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員說明，其實國土計畫它原來的國土規劃對農業來講就是避免農地的破碎化，但是現在外界一直把國土計畫要不要送到內政部來審，都要看我們農業的配套資源什麼時候提出來，那我已經跟外界講了，農業資源的投入不會因為國土計畫如期或是延後而改變，這兩個不是對價關係，不是說我農業資源要提到加碼夠了，你國土計畫才要送，這兩個是不一樣的觀念。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，我為什麼會請教你這個問題，就是因為我們的農地從農一到農五有很多的規劃還有特定農地等等，這些都會在未來國家整體規劃上有所變動，為什麼？因為在我們桃竹苗的大矽谷計畫裡面也需要很多的產業用地，如果跟地方政府沒有整體的規劃，沒有跟我們行政部門進行橫向的溝通，在這個用地上會有很多的衝突性，為什麼？因為你重劃、你變更、你設定國土計畫下去的話，未來要再做變更是不可能的，是會很難去做調整的，所以我才說希望你們這邊也要做整體的規劃。上一任的陳吉仲部長有說未來對國土計畫他會做一個綠色給付……"],["陳部長駿季：對地綠色給付。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，會對綠色給付這個部分去做一個調整，讓我們的農一跟農二在變更上可以做一個加強性，但是你看到這個綠色給付，你能做到什麼配套呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，我還是說一句，就是我們的農業的堆疊式給付是因為我們的農民守住這一片農地的貢獻。那有關於您剛才講的在桃園大矽谷裡面有一些地要去做變更，相對的在國土計畫裡面也有相關的規範，所以我們後續會持續跟縣市政府做溝通，國土計畫不是絕對的值，就是農一要多少、農二要多少，這個會根據地方的發展……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你的綠色環境給付這個計畫是希望農民能夠適地適種，而且能夠維持我們農作物的生產，這只是一個獎勵的辦法，但是全年是有兩期的耕作，所以我們希望你在整體的配套上一定不能犧牲農民的權益，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我絕對不會犧牲農民權益，而且我們在這些方案出來以後也會對外做一些說明還有一些溝通。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝呂玉玲委員，部長請回座。","下一位質詢請張嘉郡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":294,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-4","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","王育敏","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","徐富癸","麥玉珍","張雅琳","羅智強","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","劉建國"],"page_start":229,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00015"}}}