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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,509 --> 00:00:04,110\n謝謝主席主席我們有請嚴主委請嚴主委林委員好主委好主委有沒有趁這個開議之前到這個國內去進行一些國內旅遊尤其是我們知道退服會峽下有一些我們的觀光農場還有就是一些旅館就之前去過農場是我們高三的農場去過好\n\n2\n00:00:30,784 --> 00:00:57,724\n我不知道主委有沒有聽過現在這個民間有一個很有趣的這個笑話就是說如果有一間公司啊他舉辦國內旅遊大家會說哇那你去年業績很好賺大錢啊這個賠錢的或賺的少的才會到國外旅遊所以國內旅遊其實現在的房價其實一般消費者都會認為說挺貴的那我們知道在我們這個退服會峽下有一些幾個農場機構甚至於呢都還有一些旅館的經營我們有幾個農場機構\n\n3\n00:01:00,085 --> 00:01:04,866\n山高山有三個大農場,平地有兩個,昌化跟台東這幾個退府會峽下的農場機構當中,又有幾間在經營合法的旅館跟旅宿山高山有三座平地呢?平地你知道嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:45,023\n平地農場有4個地方在經營旅宿業好,其實我稍微調查跟了解了一下當然山高山的這幾個包括武陵農場、福壽山親近非常夯那麼房價的部分當然也就合理的會反映這個需求\n\n5\n00:01:45,683 --> 00:01:57,187\n但是如果是平地的彰化農場跟臺東農場的話那他們的價格相對的非常合理喔我先唸出來一下就是像高雄同學農場的話雙人房只要4200那四人房6000那麼如果是池上啊或是東和或是豐壽會館的話雙人房有的甚至於只要1200\n\n6\n00:02:08,351 --> 00:02:10,433\n有的有合法的旅館登記但是有的好像沒有是這樣嗎\n\n7\n00:02:22,184 --> 00:02:50,639\n報告委員我們的觀光條例實行以後因為山高山農場他從很早以前都經營旅宿業所以他很早就取得旅館的登記了但是因為我們觀光條例通過以後在明年的1月份以前沒有取得的話將我們平地農場以務農為主所以說他明年1月開始我們就不能經營這個旅宿業了我們現在採取的措施就是委外經營方式\n\n8\n00:02:51,419 --> 00:03:09,588\n現在高雄農場在112年之後已經委外經營了那池上的會館在今年的4月也委外經營了那東和的會館我們預備在今年年底以前委外經營那花蓮的壽豐農場因為現在做地木的變更變更完以後我們也會委外經營\n\n9\n00:03:11,589 --> 00:03:22,395\n呃,我想,管理的事業單位都非常清楚啦,沒錯,就是104年之後,因為我們的觀光條例有進行了修正之後,有10年的寬限期,其實本席要問主委的就是,我開場白就先說了,其實現在我們國內的這些旅宿業的房價,當然高檔的甚至五星級的要上萬,沒錯。\n\n10\n00:03:33,061 --> 00:03:50,955\n但是其實退輔會狹下所的這些農場機構的旅館其實是可以提供相對合理的價格他不只是提供給我們退出役官兵們其實有一個休閒旅遊的好地方之外其實國人也會需要但是為什麼拖到最後一刻你看喔114年的1月21號如果沒有辦妥相關的旅館的登記之後就不能繼續營業了那就像剛剛所講的\n\n11\n00:04:00,422 --> 00:04:12,507\n既然早就10年前就知道為什麼不能好好的動起來當然中間一經過了這個疫情期間的COVID當然相對的會很慘淡但是主委你有沒有覺得其實這一塊是可以好好動起來的\n\n12\n00:04:15,442 --> 00:04:28,970\n目前我們都已經辦理招商在作業當中好在作業當中那是不是就是要拖到最後一刻就像剛剛講的本席也去查了那麼照顧彰化的這個高雄同學農場112年1月就委外廠商經營囉那池上會館是113年3月委託民間來經營那麼河東農場跟壽豐農場的進度只剩下最後兩個月喔那這個時間跟騎乘上可以來得及嗎\n\n13\n00:04:43,458 --> 00:05:09,649\n東河農場的部分,我們應該來得及,因為最主要是之前颱風的影響,它受到非常非常嚴重的損壞,連外道路也不通,那這個東西我們會加速來進行,請委員放心。好,但是呢,這個預算會期回到預算,主委我要講,114年度的預算書當中有提到,臺東農場的觀光收入變成是只剩下15000元,比上個年度的預算700萬要減少了698萬。\n\n14\n00:05:12,881 --> 00:05:42,601\n那像這樣子是因為委外經營之後所預算書的呈現嗎還是說反正這些都是不欠錢的單位因為我必須要強調喔真的就像我們剛剛前面看到的第一張在高山地區比較有競爭力尤其是在那些風光明媚的地方每年到了賞花祭節可以說是供不應求但是平地的地區是不是就是因為競爭力相對比較薄弱對於政府會來講收入也比較少就可以不用去管它或是不經營它其實這是本席很在乎的\n\n15\n00:05:44,402 --> 00:06:07,937\n報委員我們委外經營以後狀況會好很多因為平地農場包含彰化農場跟台東農場他最主要的事業目的其實就是我們的農業經營並不是這個旅館的規劃所以這方面他們是比較弱的這個是我們必須要承認而且從近三年來其實他都是虧本在經營的\n\n16\n00:06:08,937 --> 00:06:36,582\n對沒錯他確實是在虧本經營但是為什麼我沒有放棄是因為就是我們國民有需求所以說我們才忍痛高雄農場我以高雄農場為例他一年要虧損五百萬但是為什麼我們繼續經營下去這最主要是有需求我們才經營下去旁邊有一滇緬村就是那個姓國村這間我們要還要負責照顧他們最主要原因是在這個地方\n\n17\n00:06:37,202 --> 00:07:04,575\n本席就是特別把這個問題也就質詢把它提出來那確實就如同我們今天尋答上所講的民眾是有他的需求但是缺乏的會不會是一些亮點的宣傳又或者是說特色的規劃那我們希望在這個接下來如果能夠把進度掌握然後在這個有委外經營底下也能夠幫這個10年前就已經知道了現在如果沒有取得這個旅館相關的登記其實是無法合法經營的\n\n18\n00:07:05,435 --> 00:07:29,807\n好另外一個當然我們就要回到這個關於人力的問題喔其實我們各個榮處我非常的重要因為他攸關著我們120萬我們的這個退休的這個退役的這些官兵們跟榮眷們之間那在這個120萬人處的不論是他們就養就業就學等等其實人力第一線到底足不足夠因為時間有限我直接就講了有8個\n\n19\n00:07:30,948 --> 00:07:50,900\n容處缺額是高於10%當我們第一線人力有缺口的時候對比這是113年而且昨天最新統計的資料對113年對比112年還有8個地方包括臺北市新北市基隆市花蓮縣臺東縣苗栗縣彰化縣跟雲林縣\n\n20\n00:07:55,163 --> 00:08:15,713\n面對這種第一線現在有高於10%的人力缺口,我們要如何想辦法來補足呢?報告委員,我們現在整個各容圖處是507,缺是缺了58個,但是58個人也有職務代理人也有29個,大概缺了一半,還有29個,但是目前我們正在辦理\n\n21\n00:08:17,154 --> 00:08:32,661\n在增補在補充當中另外在這個階段我們是用社工我們有這個社工隊來支援來讓他們節省一些人力榮勳志工來幫忙一些仿事的一些工作服務的工作\n\n22\n00:08:33,281 --> 00:08:59,181\n其實就是用一種所謂志工來做替代那不然就可能在過渡時期但另外一種方式可能就是什麼就是用所謂加班來處理本席特別幫這個我們各個榮處的加班天數來做一個統計這個會發現最高的南投會高達31.6天最低的台北市也有2.1天相差的倍數是15倍\n\n23\n00:09:01,143 --> 00:09:04,327\n當然有些人認為說我賺點加班費挺好的但是更多的時候他可能產生的這種過勞會降低第一線人力的包括就養就業提供諮詢的一個品質然後我們看到除了南投縣\n\n24\n00:09:18,206 --> 00:09:34,189\n依然嘉義臺東基隆花蓮加班的天數也都高於其他的地區所以主委有注意到這樣的狀況嗎那顯然的相對的他就影響到了這些縣市第一線人力的調度之外我相信服務品質也會變差\n\n25\n00:09:35,270 --> 00:09:51,721\n那可以感受得到是不是臺北市就相對的這個2.1的加班天數是比較合乎大家常理的接受那就像剛剛前一位沈博洋委員提到的可能是醫療機構那偏鄉是不是出現了大家比較不願意服務又或者是說其實南投地處在我們的\n\n26\n00:09:57,366 --> 00:10:22,268\n臺灣最中心才是真的我們臺灣的內地啊南投啊為什麼會發生31.6天原因是什麼委員我請輔導處處長跟你做報告委員我向您報告我是輔導處處長是最主要是因為南投的編制人數只有19人是那臺北市有54人相同的加班的時數放大出去之後臺北市的比率就很低\n\n27\n00:10:23,168 --> 00:10:36,696\n藍投的比例就會很高那事實上藍投目前只有缺一員而已那相關的加班我們會來注意絕對不會讓我們同仁過老在我們工作品質不降低的狀況下我們絕對不會讓我們同仁過老謝謝委員\n\n28\n00:10:38,577 --> 00:10:53,581\n因為時間有限我先講一個結論那就是臺北市是不是因為要服務的榮民榮眷比較多所以員額比較高但是相對的如果說南投你現在看到有這樣的加班天數那就表示過去給的員額現在明顯的已經無法符合現行榮眷榮民的人數那這個在於所謂的\n\n29\n00:11:01,923 --> 00:11:02,323\n我們再做一個檢討\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n509\t4110\t謝謝主席 主席我們有請嚴主委請嚴主委林委員好主委好 主委有沒有趁這個開議之前到這個國內去進行一些國內旅遊尤其是我們知道退服會峽下有一些我們的觀光農場還有就是一些旅館就之前去過農場是我們高三的農場去過好\n30784\t57724\t我不知道主委有沒有聽過現在這個民間有一個很有趣的這個笑話就是說如果有一間公司啊他舉辦國內旅遊大家會說哇那你去年業績很好賺大錢啊這個賠錢的或賺的少的才會到國外旅遊所以國內旅遊其實現在的房價其實一般消費者都會認為說挺貴的那我們知道在我們這個退服會峽下有一些幾個農場機構甚至於呢都還有一些旅館的經營我們有幾個農場機構\n60085\t64866\t山高山有三個大農場,平地有兩個,昌化跟台東這幾個退府會峽下的農場機構當中,又有幾間在經營合法的旅館跟旅宿山高山有三座平地呢?平地你知道嗎?\n88789\t105023\t平地農場有4個地方在經營旅宿業好,其實我稍微調查跟了解了一下當然山高山的這幾個包括武陵農場、福壽山親近非常夯那麼房價的部分當然也就合理的會反映這個需求\n105683\t117187\t但是如果是平地的彰化農場跟臺東農場的話那他們的價格相對的非常合理喔我先唸出來一下就是像高雄同學農場的話雙人房只要4200那四人房6000那麼如果是池上啊或是東和或是豐壽會館的話雙人房有的甚至於只要1200\n128351\t130433\t有的有合法的旅館登記但是有的好像沒有是這樣嗎\n142184\t170639\t報告委員我們的觀光條例實行以後因為山高山農場他從很早以前都經營旅宿業所以他很早就取得旅館的登記了但是因為我們觀光條例通過以後在明年的1月份以前沒有取得的話將我們平地農場以務農為主所以說他明年1月開始我們就不能經營這個旅宿業了我們現在採取的措施就是委外經營方式\n171419\t189588\t現在高雄農場在112年之後已經委外經營了那池上的會館在今年的4月也委外經營了那東和的會館我們預備在今年年底以前委外經營那花蓮的壽豐農場因為現在做地木的變更變更完以後我們也會委外經營\n191589\t202395\t呃,我想,管理的事業單位都非常清楚啦,沒錯,就是104年之後,因為我們的觀光條例有進行了修正之後,有10年的寬限期,其實本席要問主委的就是,我開場白就先說了,其實現在我們國內的這些旅宿業的房價,當然高檔的甚至五星級的要上萬,沒錯。\n213061\t230955\t但是其實退輔會狹下所的這些農場機構的旅館其實是可以提供相對合理的價格他不只是提供給我們退出役官兵們其實有一個休閒旅遊的好地方之外其實國人也會需要但是為什麼拖到最後一刻你看喔114年的1月21號如果沒有辦妥相關的旅館的登記之後就不能繼續營業了那就像剛剛所講的\n240422\t252507\t既然早就10年前就知道為什麼不能好好的動起來當然中間一經過了這個疫情期間的COVID當然相對的會很慘淡但是主委你有沒有覺得其實這一塊是可以好好動起來的\n255442\t268970\t目前我們都已經辦理招商在作業當中好在作業當中那是不是就是要拖到最後一刻就像剛剛講的本席也去查了那麼照顧彰化的這個高雄同學農場112年1月就委外廠商經營囉那池上會館是113年3月委託民間來經營那麼河東農場跟壽豐農場的進度只剩下最後兩個月喔那這個時間跟騎乘上可以來得及嗎\n283458\t309649\t東河農場的部分,我們應該來得及,因為最主要是之前颱風的影響,它受到非常非常嚴重的損壞,連外道路也不通,那這個東西我們會加速來進行,請委員放心。好,但是呢,這個預算會期回到預算,主委我要講,114年度的預算書當中有提到,臺東農場的觀光收入變成是只剩下15000元,比上個年度的預算700萬要減少了698萬。\n312881\t342601\t那像這樣子是因為委外經營之後所預算書的呈現嗎還是說反正這些都是不欠錢的單位因為我必須要強調喔真的就像我們剛剛前面看到的第一張在高山地區比較有競爭力尤其是在那些風光明媚的地方每年到了賞花祭節可以說是供不應求但是平地的地區是不是就是因為競爭力相對比較薄弱對於政府會來講收入也比較少就可以不用去管它或是不經營它其實這是本席很在乎的\n344402\t367937\t報委員我們委外經營以後狀況會好很多因為平地農場包含彰化農場跟台東農場他最主要的事業目的其實就是我們的農業經營並不是這個旅館的規劃所以這方面他們是比較弱的這個是我們必須要承認而且從近三年來其實他都是虧本在經營的\n368937\t396582\t對沒錯他確實是在虧本經營但是為什麼我沒有放棄是因為就是我們國民有需求所以說我們才忍痛高雄農場我以高雄農場為例他一年要虧損五百萬但是為什麼我們繼續經營下去這最主要是有需求我們才經營下去旁邊有一滇緬村就是那個姓國村這間我們要還要負責照顧他們最主要原因是在這個地方\n397202\t424575\t本席就是特別把這個問題也就質詢把它提出來那確實就如同我們今天尋答上所講的民眾是有他的需求但是缺乏的會不會是一些亮點的宣傳又或者是說特色的規劃那我們希望在這個接下來如果能夠把進度掌握然後在這個有委外經營底下也能夠幫這個10年前就已經知道了現在如果沒有取得這個旅館相關的登記其實是無法合法經營的\n425435\t449807\t好另外一個當然我們就要回到這個關於人力的問題喔其實我們各個榮處我非常的重要因為他攸關著我們120萬我們的這個退休的這個退役的這些官兵們跟榮眷們之間那在這個120萬人處的不論是他們就養就業就學等等其實人力第一線到底足不足夠因為時間有限我直接就講了有8個\n450948\t470900\t容處缺額是高於10%當我們第一線人力有缺口的時候對比這是113年而且昨天最新統計的資料對113年對比112年還有8個地方包括臺北市新北市基隆市花蓮縣臺東縣苗栗縣彰化縣跟雲林縣\n475163\t495713\t面對這種第一線現在有高於10%的人力缺口,我們要如何想辦法來補足呢?報告委員,我們現在整個各容圖處是507,缺是缺了58個,但是58個人也有職務代理人也有29個,大概缺了一半,還有29個,但是目前我們正在辦理\n497154\t512661\t在增補在補充當中另外在這個階段我們是用社工我們有這個社工隊來支援來讓他們節省一些人力榮勳志工來幫忙一些仿事的一些工作服務的工作\n513281\t539181\t其實就是用一種所謂志工來做替代那不然就可能在過渡時期但另外一種方式可能就是什麼就是用所謂加班來處理本席特別幫這個我們各個榮處的加班天數來做一個統計這個會發現最高的南投會高達31.6天最低的台北市也有2.1天相差的倍數是15倍\n541143\t544327\t當然有些人認為說我賺點加班費挺好的但是更多的時候他可能產生的這種過勞會降低第一線人力的包括就養就業提供諮詢的一個品質然後我們看到除了南投縣\n558206\t574189\t依然嘉義臺東基隆花蓮加班的天數也都高於其他的地區所以主委有注意到這樣的狀況嗎那顯然的相對的他就影響到了這些縣市第一線人力的調度之外我相信服務品質也會變差\n575270\t591721\t那可以感受得到是不是臺北市就相對的這個2.1的加班天數是比較合乎大家常理的接受那就像剛剛前一位沈博洋委員提到的可能是醫療機構那偏鄉是不是出現了大家比較不願意服務又或者是說其實南投地處在我們的\n597366\t622268\t臺灣最中心才是真的我們臺灣的內地啊南投啊為什麼會發生31.6天原因是什麼委員我請輔導處處長跟你做報告委員我向您報告我是輔導處處長是最主要是因為南投的編制人數只有19人是那臺北市有54人相同的加班的時數放大出去之後臺北市的比率就很低\n623168\t636696\t藍投的比例就會很高那事實上藍投目前只有缺一員而已那相關的加班我們會來注意絕對不會讓我們同仁過老在我們工作品質不降低的狀況下我們絕對不會讓我們同仁過老謝謝委員\n638577\t653581\t因為時間有限我先講一個結論那就是臺北市是不是因為要服務的榮民榮眷比較多所以員額比較高但是相對的如果說南投你現在看到有這樣的加班天數那就表示過去給的員額現在明顯的已經無法符合現行榮眷榮民的人數那這個在於所謂的\n661923\t662323\t我們再做一個檢討\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席我們有請嚴主委請嚴主委林委員好主委好 主委有沒有趁這個開議之前到這個國內去進行一些國內旅遊尤其是我們知道退服會峽下有一些我們的觀光農場還有就是一些旅館就之前去過農場是我們高三的農場去過好\n我不知道主委有沒有聽過現在這個民間有一個很有趣的這個笑話就是說如果有一間公司啊他舉辦國內旅遊大家會說哇那你去年業績很好賺大錢啊這個賠錢的或賺的少的才會到國外旅遊所以國內旅遊其實現在的房價其實一般消費者都會認為說挺貴的那我們知道在我們這個退服會峽下有一些幾個農場機構甚至於呢都還有一些旅館的經營我們有幾個農場機構\n山高山有三個大農場,平地有兩個,昌化跟台東這幾個退府會峽下的農場機構當中,又有幾間在經營合法的旅館跟旅宿山高山有三座平地呢?平地你知道嗎?\n平地農場有4個地方在經營旅宿業好,其實我稍微調查跟了解了一下當然山高山的這幾個包括武陵農場、福壽山親近非常夯那麼房價的部分當然也就合理的會反映這個需求\n但是如果是平地的彰化農場跟臺東農場的話那他們的價格相對的非常合理喔我先唸出來一下就是像高雄同學農場的話雙人房只要4200那四人房6000那麼如果是池上啊或是東和或是豐壽會館的話雙人房有的甚至於只要1200\n有的有合法的旅館登記但是有的好像沒有是這樣嗎\n報告委員我們的觀光條例實行以後因為山高山農場他從很早以前都經營旅宿業所以他很早就取得旅館的登記了但是因為我們觀光條例通過以後在明年的1月份以前沒有取得的話將我們平地農場以務農為主所以說他明年1月開始我們就不能經營這個旅宿業了我們現在採取的措施就是委外經營方式\n現在高雄農場在112年之後已經委外經營了那池上的會館在今年的4月也委外經營了那東和的會館我們預備在今年年底以前委外經營那花蓮的壽豐農場因為現在做地木的變更變更完以後我們也會委外經營\n呃,我想,管理的事業單位都非常清楚啦,沒錯,就是104年之後,因為我們的觀光條例有進行了修正之後,有10年的寬限期,其實本席要問主委的就是,我開場白就先說了,其實現在我們國內的這些旅宿業的房價,當然高檔的甚至五星級的要上萬,沒錯。\n但是其實退輔會狹下所的這些農場機構的旅館其實是可以提供相對合理的價格他不只是提供給我們退出役官兵們其實有一個休閒旅遊的好地方之外其實國人也會需要但是為什麼拖到最後一刻你看喔114年的1月21號如果沒有辦妥相關的旅館的登記之後就不能繼續營業了那就像剛剛所講的\n既然早就10年前就知道為什麼不能好好的動起來當然中間一經過了這個疫情期間的COVID當然相對的會很慘淡但是主委你有沒有覺得其實這一塊是可以好好動起來的\n目前我們都已經辦理招商在作業當中好在作業當中那是不是就是要拖到最後一刻就像剛剛講的本席也去查了那麼照顧彰化的這個高雄同學農場112年1月就委外廠商經營囉那池上會館是113年3月委託民間來經營那麼河東農場跟壽豐農場的進度只剩下最後兩個月喔那這個時間跟騎乘上可以來得及嗎\n東河農場的部分,我們應該來得及,因為最主要是之前颱風的影響,它受到非常非常嚴重的損壞,連外道路也不通,那這個東西我們會加速來進行,請委員放心。好,但是呢,這個預算會期回到預算,主委我要講,114年度的預算書當中有提到,臺東農場的觀光收入變成是只剩下15000元,比上個年度的預算700萬要減少了698萬。\n那像這樣子是因為委外經營之後所預算書的呈現嗎還是說反正這些都是不欠錢的單位因為我必須要強調喔真的就像我們剛剛前面看到的第一張在高山地區比較有競爭力尤其是在那些風光明媚的地方每年到了賞花祭節可以說是供不應求但是平地的地區是不是就是因為競爭力相對比較薄弱對於政府會來講收入也比較少就可以不用去管它或是不經營它其實這是本席很在乎的\n報委員我們委外經營以後狀況會好很多因為平地農場包含彰化農場跟台東農場他最主要的事業目的其實就是我們的農業經營並不是這個旅館的規劃所以這方面他們是比較弱的這個是我們必須要承認而且從近三年來其實他都是虧本在經營的\n對沒錯他確實是在虧本經營但是為什麼我沒有放棄是因為就是我們國民有需求所以說我們才忍痛高雄農場我以高雄農場為例他一年要虧損五百萬但是為什麼我們繼續經營下去這最主要是有需求我們才經營下去旁邊有一滇緬村就是那個姓國村這間我們要還要負責照顧他們最主要原因是在這個地方\n本席就是特別把這個問題也就質詢把它提出來那確實就如同我們今天尋答上所講的民眾是有他的需求但是缺乏的會不會是一些亮點的宣傳又或者是說特色的規劃那我們希望在這個接下來如果能夠把進度掌握然後在這個有委外經營底下也能夠幫這個10年前就已經知道了現在如果沒有取得這個旅館相關的登記其實是無法合法經營的\n好另外一個當然我們就要回到這個關於人力的問題喔其實我們各個榮處我非常的重要因為他攸關著我們120萬我們的這個退休的這個退役的這些官兵們跟榮眷們之間那在這個120萬人處的不論是他們就養就業就學等等其實人力第一線到底足不足夠因為時間有限我直接就講了有8個\n容處缺額是高於10%當我們第一線人力有缺口的時候對比這是113年而且昨天最新統計的資料對113年對比112年還有8個地方包括臺北市新北市基隆市花蓮縣臺東縣苗栗縣彰化縣跟雲林縣\n面對這種第一線現在有高於10%的人力缺口,我們要如何想辦法來補足呢?報告委員,我們現在整個各容圖處是507,缺是缺了58個,但是58個人也有職務代理人也有29個,大概缺了一半,還有29個,但是目前我們正在辦理\n在增補在補充當中另外在這個階段我們是用社工我們有這個社工隊來支援來讓他們節省一些人力榮勳志工來幫忙一些仿事的一些工作服務的工作\n其實就是用一種所謂志工來做替代那不然就可能在過渡時期但另外一種方式可能就是什麼就是用所謂加班來處理本席特別幫這個我們各個榮處的加班天數來做一個統計這個會發現最高的南投會高達31.6天最低的台北市也有2.1天相差的倍數是15倍\n當然有些人認為說我賺點加班費挺好的但是更多的時候他可能產生的這種過勞會降低第一線人力的包括就養就業提供諮詢的一個品質然後我們看到除了南投縣\n依然嘉義臺東基隆花蓮加班的天數也都高於其他的地區所以主委有注意到這樣的狀況嗎那顯然的相對的他就影響到了這些縣市第一線人力的調度之外我相信服務品質也會變差\n那可以感受得到是不是臺北市就相對的這個2.1的加班天數是比較合乎大家常理的接受那就像剛剛前一位沈博洋委員提到的可能是醫療機構那偏鄉是不是出現了大家比較不願意服務又或者是說其實南投地處在我們的\n臺灣最中心才是真的我們臺灣的內地啊南投啊為什麼會發生31.6天原因是什麼委員我請輔導處處長跟你做報告委員我向您報告我是輔導處處長是最主要是因為南投的編制人數只有19人是那臺北市有54人相同的加班的時數放大出去之後臺北市的比率就很低\n藍投的比例就會很高那事實上藍投目前只有缺一員而已那相關的加班我們會來注意絕對不會讓我們同仁過老在我們工作品質不降低的狀況下我們絕對不會讓我們同仁過老謝謝委員\n因為時間有限我先講一個結論那就是臺北市是不是因為要服務的榮民榮眷比較多所以員額比較高但是相對的如果說南投你現在看到有這樣的加班天數那就表示過去給的員額現在明顯的已經無法符合現行榮眷榮民的人數那這個在於所謂的\n我們再做一個檢討\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.509 --> 00:04.110\n謝謝主席主席我們有請嚴主委請嚴主委林委員好主委好主委有沒有趁這個開議之前到這個國內去進行一些國內旅遊尤其是我們知道退服會峽下有一些我們的觀光農場還有就是一些旅館就之前去過農場是我們高三的農場去過好\n\n00:30.784 --> 00:57.724\n我不知道主委有沒有聽過現在這個民間有一個很有趣的這個笑話就是說如果有一間公司啊他舉辦國內旅遊大家會說哇那你去年業績很好賺大錢啊這個賠錢的或賺的少的才會到國外旅遊所以國內旅遊其實現在的房價其實一般消費者都會認為說挺貴的那我們知道在我們這個退服會峽下有一些幾個農場機構甚至於呢都還有一些旅館的經營我們有幾個農場機構\n\n01:00.085 --> 01:04.866\n山高山有三個大農場,平地有兩個,昌化跟台東這幾個退府會峽下的農場機構當中,又有幾間在經營合法的旅館跟旅宿山高山有三座平地呢?平地你知道嗎?\n\n01:28.789 --> 01:45.023\n平地農場有4個地方在經營旅宿業好,其實我稍微調查跟了解了一下當然山高山的這幾個包括武陵農場、福壽山親近非常夯那麼房價的部分當然也就合理的會反映這個需求\n\n01:45.683 --> 01:57.187\n但是如果是平地的彰化農場跟臺東農場的話那他們的價格相對的非常合理喔我先唸出來一下就是像高雄同學農場的話雙人房只要4200那四人房6000那麼如果是池上啊或是東和或是豐壽會館的話雙人房有的甚至於只要1200\n\n02:08.351 --> 02:10.433\n有的有合法的旅館登記但是有的好像沒有是這樣嗎\n\n02:22.184 --> 02:50.639\n報告委員我們的觀光條例實行以後因為山高山農場他從很早以前都經營旅宿業所以他很早就取得旅館的登記了但是因為我們觀光條例通過以後在明年的1月份以前沒有取得的話將我們平地農場以務農為主所以說他明年1月開始我們就不能經營這個旅宿業了我們現在採取的措施就是委外經營方式\n\n02:51.419 --> 03:09.588\n現在高雄農場在112年之後已經委外經營了那池上的會館在今年的4月也委外經營了那東和的會館我們預備在今年年底以前委外經營那花蓮的壽豐農場因為現在做地木的變更變更完以後我們也會委外經營\n\n03:11.589 --> 03:22.395\n呃,我想,管理的事業單位都非常清楚啦,沒錯,就是104年之後,因為我們的觀光條例有進行了修正之後,有10年的寬限期,其實本席要問主委的就是,我開場白就先說了,其實現在我們國內的這些旅宿業的房價,當然高檔的甚至五星級的要上萬,沒錯。\n\n03:33.061 --> 03:50.955\n但是其實退輔會狹下所的這些農場機構的旅館其實是可以提供相對合理的價格他不只是提供給我們退出役官兵們其實有一個休閒旅遊的好地方之外其實國人也會需要但是為什麼拖到最後一刻你看喔114年的1月21號如果沒有辦妥相關的旅館的登記之後就不能繼續營業了那就像剛剛所講的\n\n04:00.422 --> 04:12.507\n既然早就10年前就知道為什麼不能好好的動起來當然中間一經過了這個疫情期間的COVID當然相對的會很慘淡但是主委你有沒有覺得其實這一塊是可以好好動起來的\n\n04:15.442 --> 04:28.970\n目前我們都已經辦理招商在作業當中好在作業當中那是不是就是要拖到最後一刻就像剛剛講的本席也去查了那麼照顧彰化的這個高雄同學農場112年1月就委外廠商經營囉那池上會館是113年3月委託民間來經營那麼河東農場跟壽豐農場的進度只剩下最後兩個月喔那這個時間跟騎乘上可以來得及嗎\n\n04:43.458 --> 05:09.649\n東河農場的部分,我們應該來得及,因為最主要是之前颱風的影響,它受到非常非常嚴重的損壞,連外道路也不通,那這個東西我們會加速來進行,請委員放心。好,但是呢,這個預算會期回到預算,主委我要講,114年度的預算書當中有提到,臺東農場的觀光收入變成是只剩下15000元,比上個年度的預算700萬要減少了698萬。\n\n05:12.881 --> 05:42.601\n那像這樣子是因為委外經營之後所預算書的呈現嗎還是說反正這些都是不欠錢的單位因為我必須要強調喔真的就像我們剛剛前面看到的第一張在高山地區比較有競爭力尤其是在那些風光明媚的地方每年到了賞花祭節可以說是供不應求但是平地的地區是不是就是因為競爭力相對比較薄弱對於政府會來講收入也比較少就可以不用去管它或是不經營它其實這是本席很在乎的\n\n05:44.402 --> 06:07.937\n報委員我們委外經營以後狀況會好很多因為平地農場包含彰化農場跟台東農場他最主要的事業目的其實就是我們的農業經營並不是這個旅館的規劃所以這方面他們是比較弱的這個是我們必須要承認而且從近三年來其實他都是虧本在經營的\n\n06:08.937 --> 06:36.582\n對沒錯他確實是在虧本經營但是為什麼我沒有放棄是因為就是我們國民有需求所以說我們才忍痛高雄農場我以高雄農場為例他一年要虧損五百萬但是為什麼我們繼續經營下去這最主要是有需求我們才經營下去旁邊有一滇緬村就是那個姓國村這間我們要還要負責照顧他們最主要原因是在這個地方\n\n06:37.202 --> 07:04.575\n本席就是特別把這個問題也就質詢把它提出來那確實就如同我們今天尋答上所講的民眾是有他的需求但是缺乏的會不會是一些亮點的宣傳又或者是說特色的規劃那我們希望在這個接下來如果能夠把進度掌握然後在這個有委外經營底下也能夠幫這個10年前就已經知道了現在如果沒有取得這個旅館相關的登記其實是無法合法經營的\n\n07:05.435 --> 07:29.807\n好另外一個當然我們就要回到這個關於人力的問題喔其實我們各個榮處我非常的重要因為他攸關著我們120萬我們的這個退休的這個退役的這些官兵們跟榮眷們之間那在這個120萬人處的不論是他們就養就業就學等等其實人力第一線到底足不足夠因為時間有限我直接就講了有8個\n\n07:30.948 --> 07:50.900\n容處缺額是高於10%當我們第一線人力有缺口的時候對比這是113年而且昨天最新統計的資料對113年對比112年還有8個地方包括臺北市新北市基隆市花蓮縣臺東縣苗栗縣彰化縣跟雲林縣\n\n07:55.163 --> 08:15.713\n面對這種第一線現在有高於10%的人力缺口,我們要如何想辦法來補足呢?報告委員,我們現在整個各容圖處是507,缺是缺了58個,但是58個人也有職務代理人也有29個,大概缺了一半,還有29個,但是目前我們正在辦理\n\n08:17.154 --> 08:32.661\n在增補在補充當中另外在這個階段我們是用社工我們有這個社工隊來支援來讓他們節省一些人力榮勳志工來幫忙一些仿事的一些工作服務的工作\n\n08:33.281 --> 08:59.181\n其實就是用一種所謂志工來做替代那不然就可能在過渡時期但另外一種方式可能就是什麼就是用所謂加班來處理本席特別幫這個我們各個榮處的加班天數來做一個統計這個會發現最高的南投會高達31.6天最低的台北市也有2.1天相差的倍數是15倍\n\n09:01.143 --> 09:04.327\n當然有些人認為說我賺點加班費挺好的但是更多的時候他可能產生的這種過勞會降低第一線人力的包括就養就業提供諮詢的一個品質然後我們看到除了南投縣\n\n09:18.206 --> 09:34.189\n依然嘉義臺東基隆花蓮加班的天數也都高於其他的地區所以主委有注意到這樣的狀況嗎那顯然的相對的他就影響到了這些縣市第一線人力的調度之外我相信服務品質也會變差\n\n09:35.270 --> 09:51.721\n那可以感受得到是不是臺北市就相對的這個2.1的加班天數是比較合乎大家常理的接受那就像剛剛前一位沈博洋委員提到的可能是醫療機構那偏鄉是不是出現了大家比較不願意服務又或者是說其實南投地處在我們的\n\n09:57.366 --> 10:22.268\n臺灣最中心才是真的我們臺灣的內地啊南投啊為什麼會發生31.6天原因是什麼委員我請輔導處處長跟你做報告委員我向您報告我是輔導處處長是最主要是因為南投的編制人數只有19人是那臺北市有54人相同的加班的時數放大出去之後臺北市的比率就很低\n\n10:23.168 --> 10:36.696\n藍投的比例就會很高那事實上藍投目前只有缺一員而已那相關的加班我們會來注意絕對不會讓我們同仁過老在我們工作品質不降低的狀況下我們絕對不會讓我們同仁過老謝謝委員\n\n10:38.577 --> 10:53.581\n因為時間有限我先講一個結論那就是臺北市是不是因為要服務的榮民榮眷比較多所以員額比較高但是相對的如果說南投你現在看到有這樣的加班天數那就表示過去給的員額現在明顯的已經無法符合現行榮眷榮民的人數那這個在於所謂的\n\n11:01.923 --> 11:02.323\n我們再做一個檢討\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.509,"end":4.11,"text":"謝謝主席 主席我們有請嚴主委請嚴主委林委員好主委好 主委有沒有趁這個開議之前到這個國內去進行一些國內旅遊尤其是我們知道退服會峽下有一些我們的觀光農場還有就是一些旅館就之前去過農場是我們高三的農場去過好"},{"start":30.784,"end":57.724,"text":"我不知道主委有沒有聽過現在這個民間有一個很有趣的這個笑話就是說如果有一間公司啊他舉辦國內旅遊大家會說哇那你去年業績很好賺大錢啊這個賠錢的或賺的少的才會到國外旅遊所以國內旅遊其實現在的房價其實一般消費者都會認為說挺貴的那我們知道在我們這個退服會峽下有一些幾個農場機構甚至於呢都還有一些旅館的經營我們有幾個農場機構"},{"start":60.085,"end":64.866,"text":"山高山有三個大農場,平地有兩個,昌化跟台東這幾個退府會峽下的農場機構當中,又有幾間在經營合法的旅館跟旅宿山高山有三座平地呢?平地你知道嗎?"},{"start":88.789,"end":105.023,"text":"平地農場有4個地方在經營旅宿業好,其實我稍微調查跟了解了一下當然山高山的這幾個包括武陵農場、福壽山親近非常夯那麼房價的部分當然也就合理的會反映這個需求"},{"start":105.683,"end":117.187,"text":"但是如果是平地的彰化農場跟臺東農場的話那他們的價格相對的非常合理喔我先唸出來一下就是像高雄同學農場的話雙人房只要4200那四人房6000那麼如果是池上啊或是東和或是豐壽會館的話雙人房有的甚至於只要1200"},{"start":128.351,"end":130.433,"text":"有的有合法的旅館登記但是有的好像沒有是這樣嗎"},{"start":142.184,"end":170.639,"text":"報告委員我們的觀光條例實行以後因為山高山農場他從很早以前都經營旅宿業所以他很早就取得旅館的登記了但是因為我們觀光條例通過以後在明年的1月份以前沒有取得的話將我們平地農場以務農為主所以說他明年1月開始我們就不能經營這個旅宿業了我們現在採取的措施就是委外經營方式"},{"start":171.419,"end":189.588,"text":"現在高雄農場在112年之後已經委外經營了那池上的會館在今年的4月也委外經營了那東和的會館我們預備在今年年底以前委外經營那花蓮的壽豐農場因為現在做地木的變更變更完以後我們也會委外經營"},{"start":191.589,"end":202.395,"text":"呃,我想,管理的事業單位都非常清楚啦,沒錯,就是104年之後,因為我們的觀光條例有進行了修正之後,有10年的寬限期,其實本席要問主委的就是,我開場白就先說了,其實現在我們國內的這些旅宿業的房價,當然高檔的甚至五星級的要上萬,沒錯。"},{"start":213.061,"end":230.955,"text":"但是其實退輔會狹下所的這些農場機構的旅館其實是可以提供相對合理的價格他不只是提供給我們退出役官兵們其實有一個休閒旅遊的好地方之外其實國人也會需要但是為什麼拖到最後一刻你看喔114年的1月21號如果沒有辦妥相關的旅館的登記之後就不能繼續營業了那就像剛剛所講的"},{"start":240.422,"end":252.507,"text":"既然早就10年前就知道為什麼不能好好的動起來當然中間一經過了這個疫情期間的COVID當然相對的會很慘淡但是主委你有沒有覺得其實這一塊是可以好好動起來的"},{"start":255.442,"end":268.97,"text":"目前我們都已經辦理招商在作業當中好在作業當中那是不是就是要拖到最後一刻就像剛剛講的本席也去查了那麼照顧彰化的這個高雄同學農場112年1月就委外廠商經營囉那池上會館是113年3月委託民間來經營那麼河東農場跟壽豐農場的進度只剩下最後兩個月喔那這個時間跟騎乘上可以來得及嗎"},{"start":283.458,"end":309.649,"text":"東河農場的部分,我們應該來得及,因為最主要是之前颱風的影響,它受到非常非常嚴重的損壞,連外道路也不通,那這個東西我們會加速來進行,請委員放心。好,但是呢,這個預算會期回到預算,主委我要講,114年度的預算書當中有提到,臺東農場的觀光收入變成是只剩下15000元,比上個年度的預算700萬要減少了698萬。"},{"start":312.881,"end":342.601,"text":"那像這樣子是因為委外經營之後所預算書的呈現嗎還是說反正這些都是不欠錢的單位因為我必須要強調喔真的就像我們剛剛前面看到的第一張在高山地區比較有競爭力尤其是在那些風光明媚的地方每年到了賞花祭節可以說是供不應求但是平地的地區是不是就是因為競爭力相對比較薄弱對於政府會來講收入也比較少就可以不用去管它或是不經營它其實這是本席很在乎的"},{"start":344.402,"end":367.937,"text":"報委員我們委外經營以後狀況會好很多因為平地農場包含彰化農場跟台東農場他最主要的事業目的其實就是我們的農業經營並不是這個旅館的規劃所以這方面他們是比較弱的這個是我們必須要承認而且從近三年來其實他都是虧本在經營的"},{"start":368.937,"end":396.582,"text":"對沒錯他確實是在虧本經營但是為什麼我沒有放棄是因為就是我們國民有需求所以說我們才忍痛高雄農場我以高雄農場為例他一年要虧損五百萬但是為什麼我們繼續經營下去這最主要是有需求我們才經營下去旁邊有一滇緬村就是那個姓國村這間我們要還要負責照顧他們最主要原因是在這個地方"},{"start":397.202,"end":424.575,"text":"本席就是特別把這個問題也就質詢把它提出來那確實就如同我們今天尋答上所講的民眾是有他的需求但是缺乏的會不會是一些亮點的宣傳又或者是說特色的規劃那我們希望在這個接下來如果能夠把進度掌握然後在這個有委外經營底下也能夠幫這個10年前就已經知道了現在如果沒有取得這個旅館相關的登記其實是無法合法經營的"},{"start":425.435,"end":449.807,"text":"好另外一個當然我們就要回到這個關於人力的問題喔其實我們各個榮處我非常的重要因為他攸關著我們120萬我們的這個退休的這個退役的這些官兵們跟榮眷們之間那在這個120萬人處的不論是他們就養就業就學等等其實人力第一線到底足不足夠因為時間有限我直接就講了有8個"},{"start":450.948,"end":470.9,"text":"容處缺額是高於10%當我們第一線人力有缺口的時候對比這是113年而且昨天最新統計的資料對113年對比112年還有8個地方包括臺北市新北市基隆市花蓮縣臺東縣苗栗縣彰化縣跟雲林縣"},{"start":475.163,"end":495.713,"text":"面對這種第一線現在有高於10%的人力缺口,我們要如何想辦法來補足呢?報告委員,我們現在整個各容圖處是507,缺是缺了58個,但是58個人也有職務代理人也有29個,大概缺了一半,還有29個,但是目前我們正在辦理"},{"start":497.154,"end":512.661,"text":"在增補在補充當中另外在這個階段我們是用社工我們有這個社工隊來支援來讓他們節省一些人力榮勳志工來幫忙一些仿事的一些工作服務的工作"},{"start":513.281,"end":539.181,"text":"其實就是用一種所謂志工來做替代那不然就可能在過渡時期但另外一種方式可能就是什麼就是用所謂加班來處理本席特別幫這個我們各個榮處的加班天數來做一個統計這個會發現最高的南投會高達31.6天最低的台北市也有2.1天相差的倍數是15倍"},{"start":541.143,"end":544.327,"text":"當然有些人認為說我賺點加班費挺好的但是更多的時候他可能產生的這種過勞會降低第一線人力的包括就養就業提供諮詢的一個品質然後我們看到除了南投縣"},{"start":558.206,"end":574.189,"text":"依然嘉義臺東基隆花蓮加班的天數也都高於其他的地區所以主委有注意到這樣的狀況嗎那顯然的相對的他就影響到了這些縣市第一線人力的調度之外我相信服務品質也會變差"},{"start":575.27,"end":591.721,"text":"那可以感受得到是不是臺北市就相對的這個2.1的加班天數是比較合乎大家常理的接受那就像剛剛前一位沈博洋委員提到的可能是醫療機構那偏鄉是不是出現了大家比較不願意服務又或者是說其實南投地處在我們的"},{"start":597.366,"end":622.268,"text":"臺灣最中心才是真的我們臺灣的內地啊南投啊為什麼會發生31.6天原因是什麼委員我請輔導處處長跟你做報告委員我向您報告我是輔導處處長是最主要是因為南投的編制人數只有19人是那臺北市有54人相同的加班的時數放大出去之後臺北市的比率就很低"},{"start":623.168,"end":636.696,"text":"藍投的比例就會很高那事實上藍投目前只有缺一員而已那相關的加班我們會來注意絕對不會讓我們同仁過老在我們工作品質不降低的狀況下我們絕對不會讓我們同仁過老謝謝委員"},{"start":638.577,"end":653.581,"text":"因為時間有限我先講一個結論那就是臺北市是不是因為要服務的榮民榮眷比較多所以員額比較高但是相對的如果說南投你現在看到有這樣的加班天數那就表示過去給的員額現在明顯的已經無法符合現行榮眷榮民的人數那這個在於所謂的"},{"start":661.923,"end":662.323,"text":"我們再做一個檢討"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:53:50 - 10:05:17","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155277,"gazette":{"lineno":206,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時53分）謝謝主席。主席，我們有請嚴主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：主委好。主委有沒有趁開議之前到國內去進行一些國內旅遊？尤其是我們知道退輔會轄下有一些觀光農場，還有一些旅館。"],["嚴主任委員德發：就職前去過農場，我們去過三高山的農場。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我不知道主委有沒有聽過現在民間有一個很有趣的笑話，就是如果有一間公司舉辦國內旅遊，大家會說它去年業績很好、賺大錢，賠錢或賺得少的才會到國外旅遊。所以國內旅遊現在的房價，其實一般消費者都會認為挺貴的，我們知道在退輔會轄下有幾個農場機構，甚至於還有一些旅館的經營，我們有幾個農場機構？"],["嚴主任委員德發：三高山是三個大農場，底下平地有兩個，彰化跟臺東。"],["林委員楚茵：好，這幾個退輔會轄下的農場機構當中，又有幾間在經營我們的旅館跟旅宿？"],["嚴主任委員德發：我們三高山有三座。"],["林委員楚茵：對，平地呢？你知道嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：請我們事業處處長跟你做說明。"],["林委員楚茵：好。"],["楊處長長政：報告委員，我們平地農場有四個地方在經營旅宿業。"],["林委員楚茵：好，其實我稍微調查跟了解了一下，當然三高山的這幾個，包括武陵農場、福壽山跟清境非常夯，房價的部分當然也就合理的會反映需求，但是如果是平地的彰化農場跟臺東農場，他們的價格相對的非常合理，我先念出來一下，像高雄同學農場，雙人房只要四千二，四人房六千，如果是池上、東河或是壽豐會館，雙人房有的甚至於只要一千二、四人房兩千八，所以這些價格都是非常的合理跟實惠，可是本席發現的問題是，有的有合法的旅館登記，但是有的好像沒有，是這樣嗎？"],["楊處長長政：報告委員，我們的觀光條例實行以後，因為三高山農場從很早以前就經營旅宿業，所以很早就取得旅館的登記了，但是因為我們觀光條例通過以後，在明年的1月份以前沒有取得的話，像我們平地農場以務農為主，所以從明年1月開始，我們就不能經營這個旅宿業了，我們現在採取的措施就是委外經營方式，現在高雄農場在112年之後，已經委外經營了；池上的會館在今年的4月也委外經營了；東河的會館，我們預備在今年年底以前委外經營；花蓮的壽豐農場，因為正在做地目的變更，變更完以後，我們也會委外經營。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我想管理的事業單位已經都非常清楚，沒錯，就是104年之後，因為我們的觀光條例進行了修正之後，有10年的寬限期，其實本席要問主委的是，我開場白就先說了，現在我們國內的這些旅宿業的房價，當然高檔的甚至於五星級的要上萬，沒錯，但是其實退輔會轄下這些農場機構的旅館，其實是可以提供相對合理的價格，不只是提供給我們退除役官兵們有一個休閒旅遊的好地方之外，其實國人也會需要，但是為什麼拖到最後一刻，你看！114年1月21日如果沒有辦妥相關的旅館登記，就不能繼續營業了，就像剛剛所講的，既然早在10年前就知道，為什麼不能好好的動起來？當然中間經過了COVID-19疫情期間，相對的會很慘淡，但是主委有沒有覺得其實這一塊是可以好好動起來的？"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，目前我們都已經辦理招商，在作業當中。"],["林委員楚茵：好，在作業當中，是不是就是要拖到最後一刻？就像剛剛講的，本席也去查了，包括彰化農場所屬的高雄同學農場112年1月就委外廠商經營了；池上會館是113年3月委託民間經營；東河農場跟壽豐農場的進度，只剩下最後兩個月，這個時間跟期程上可以來得及嗎？"],["楊處長長政：東河農場的部分，我們應該來得及，因為最主要是之前颱風的影響，它受到非常非常嚴重的損壞，聯外道路也不通，我們會加速來進行，請委員放心。"],["林委員楚茵：好，但是這個預算會期，回到預算，主委，我要講，114年度的預算書當中有提到臺東農場的觀光收入變成只剩下1萬5,000元，比上個年度的預算700萬要減少了698萬，像這樣子是因為委外經營之後，預算書的呈現嗎？還是反正這些都是不賺錢的單位？我必須要強調，真的就像我們剛剛前面看到第一張，在高山地區比較有競爭力，尤其是在那些風光明媚的地方，每年到了賞花季節，可以說是供不應求，但是平地的地區是不是就是因為競爭力相對比較薄弱，對於退輔會來講，收入也比較少，就可以不用去管它或是不經營它？其實這就是本席很在乎的。"],["楊處長長政：報告委員，我們委外經營以後，狀況會好很多，因為平地農場包含彰化農場跟臺東農場，它最主要的事業目的其實就是我們的農業經營，並不是旅館的規劃，所以這方面他們是比較弱的，這部分我們必須要承認，而且近三年來它其實都是虧本在經營的。"],["林委員楚茵：對，沒錯。"],["楊處長長政：他們確實是在虧本經營，但是為什麼我們沒有放棄，是因為我們的國民有需求，所以我們才忍痛繼續經營，我以高雄農場為例，它一年要虧損500萬，但是為什麼我們會繼續經營下去，最主要是有需求，我們才經營下去，旁邊有個滇緬村，就是信國新村這些，我們還要負責照顧他們，最主要原因是在這個地方。"],["林委員楚茵：好，本席特別把這個問題在質詢時提出來，確實就如同我們今天詢答上所講的，民眾是有他的需求，但是缺乏的會不會是一些亮點的宣傳，又或者是說特色的規劃，我們希望接下來如果能夠把進度掌握，然後在委外經營下，也能夠幫10年前就已經知道，現在如果沒有取得旅館相關登記的，其實是無法合法經營的。","另外一個，我們就要回到有關於人力的問題，其實我們各個榮處都非常重要，因為攸關著我們120萬的退休、退役官兵們跟榮眷們，對於這120萬人次，不論是他們的就養、就業、就學等等，其實第一線人力到底足不足夠？因為時間有限，我直接就講了，有8個榮處缺額是高於10%，當我們第一線人力有缺口的時候，這是113年昨天最新統計的資料，113年對比112年，還有8個地方的缺額高於10%，包括臺北市、新北市、基隆市、花蓮縣、臺東縣、苗栗縣、彰化縣跟雲林縣，面對這種第一線現在有高於10%的人力缺口，我們要如何想辦法來補足呢？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，我們現在整個各榮服處是507人，缺是缺了58個人，但是58個人裡面已經有職務代理人員的有29人，大概缺了一半，還有29人，目前我們正在辦理增補，在補充當中。另外，在這個階段我們是用社工，我們有社工隊來支援，讓他們節省一些人力，有榮欣志工來幫忙一些訪視的工作、服務的工作。"],["林委員楚茵：好，其實就是用所謂志工來做替代，不然就可能……"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，現在是過渡時期。"],["林委員楚茵：好，但另外一種方式是什麼，就是用所謂加班來處理。本席特別幫我們各榮處的加班天數做了一個統計，發現最高的南投高達31.6天，最低的臺北市也有2.1天，相差的倍數是15倍，當然有些人認為賺點加班費挺好的，但是更多的時候，可能產生的這種過勞會降低第一線人力在提供就養、就業等諮詢的品質。然後我們看到除了南投縣，宜蘭、嘉義、臺東、基隆、花蓮等榮處的加班天數也都高於其他的地區，主委有注意到這樣的狀況嗎？顯然的、相對的，這除了影響到了這些縣市第一線人力的調度之外，我相信服務品質也會變差，可以感受得到是不是臺北市2.1天的加班天數相對是比較合乎大家常理能接受的，像剛剛前一位沈伯洋委員提到的可能是醫療機構，偏鄉是不是出現了大家比較不願意服務的情況，又或者說南投地處於我們臺灣的最中心，真的是我們臺灣的內地，為什麼會發生需要加班31.6天的情況，原因是什麼？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，我請服照處處長跟你報告。"],["曹處長東發：委員，我向您報告，我是服照處處長，最主要是因為南投的編制人數只有19人，臺北市有54人，相同的加班時數，放大出去之後，臺北市的比例就很低，南投的比例就會很高。事實上，南投目前只有缺額1員而已，相關的加班我們會來注意，絕對不會讓我們同仁過勞，在我們工作品質不降低的狀況下，我們絕對不會讓我們同仁過勞，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為時間有限，我先講一個結論，那就是臺北市是不是因為要服務的榮民、榮眷比較多，所以員額比較高，但是相對的，如果說南投，你現在看到有這樣的加班天數，那就表示過去給的員額現在明顯已經無法符合現行榮民、榮眷的人數，這個在所謂的員額當中是不是要做調整？本席希望提出這樣一個加班天數的統計，讓你們去做一些員額上的異動。"],["嚴主任委員德發：我們在編制上再做一些檢討。"],["林委員楚茵：對，沒錯、沒錯，好不好？因為我們其實應該讓全國所有的榮民跟榮眷獲得的服務品質，就醫、就業、就養等所有都應該是一致的，包括第一線的人力也應該是均衡的，好嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：我們再做個檢討，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，主委請回。","接下來請馬文君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":330,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","洪申翰","王定宇","黃仁","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","邱志偉"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00005"}}}