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0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 521.784, \"end\": 521.864, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"嘉\", \"start\": 521.864, \"end\": 521.904, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"鈞\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 521.904, \"end\": 521.924, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,823 --> 00:00:07,025\n主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長部長最近這幾個月以來早安我們就這個國土計畫法有關於這個農地劃設的部分交換了意見那對於農一農二甚至345農345農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助可以請部長具體的回答嗎\n\n2\n00:00:30,259 --> 00:00:54,100\n我想我們現在我還是一句話就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式的起伏他跟國土計畫不對然是絕對的關係不管國土計畫是不是延後如期我們都會實施這第一個我知道他是沒有直接關係但是他是相互影響的因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫要執行但是你的堆疊式補助到現在\n\n3\n00:00:54,941 --> 00:01:13,543\n不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎?請問一下為什麼沒辦法提出?是跳票了嗎?不是,我想我們內部已經做了一些規劃,但是我們對於農業的堆疊式給付的規劃過程中,我們內部完了以後,我們一定會對外去徵求各界的意見,包括\n\n4\n00:01:13,763 --> 00:01:14,463\n所以大概內容有什麼樣子的?內容的部分大概分為三個區塊\n\n5\n00:01:41,902 --> 00:02:08,526\n應該五個區塊第一個區塊是對地給付的部分那對地給付的部分過去都是在特農一般農嘛那未來這個範圍會擴大所以農三四五也會有這個會看後續我們還會再跟利害關係人做討論基本上會擴大那第二個部分是糧食安全給付的部分那糧食安全給付的部分會做一些調整金人會做一些調整\n\n6\n00:02:09,046 --> 00:02:13,328\n那我可以請教說規劃的這麼好這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助到底什麼時候才可以把它公諸於民呢?這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢?\n\n7\n00:02:38,191 --> 00:02:52,387\n我們初步規劃起來大概一年大概是兩百多億兩百多億所以這個遞住下去你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫只要你從事農業都沒有影響\n\n8\n00:02:54,089 --> 00:02:56,531\n我現在就是擔心的是其實國土計畫我前幾天遇到那個劉世芳部長我就跟他說其實我們不一定要他延遲實行只要農民的權益有受到保障我們完全不反對\n\n9\n00:03:08,641 --> 00:03:21,099\n但是他對於你的業務執掌呢他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路\n\n10\n00:03:24,344 --> 00:03:32,145\n我講劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我進度,我們盡量在溝通但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出你具體的具體的你要堆疊是要怎麼補助你的內容是什麼農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別到底在哪裡你知道有多少鄉親問我說我現在是不可以農一啦我想要農二因為農一的限制多我問你,你如果現在變農二你如果假設變了農二\n\n11\n00:03:52,809 --> 00:04:15,325\n結果他告訴你說某某某某補助只有農醫能領你讓這些鄉親你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢所以我還是跟委員說明就是我們的對地地脊腹跟我們的這些措施下去不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤他不是一個對價他必然會是一個連結沒有我不會說他延期我就不處理了\n\n12\n00:04:16,265 --> 00:04:16,885\n請問部長目前預計怎麼解決這個問題我想我們\n\n13\n00:04:45,991 --> 00:04:48,314\n這個是另外你要執行的跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的\n\n14\n00:05:01,750 --> 00:05:05,912\n我現在就告訴你說本席覺得你要並行可以可是你不能把農民當作實驗品你知道嗎他們是活的他們需要生活他們的生計需要保障不是說你告訴我說一級二轉三加三可能一年會增加一塊\n\n15\n00:05:23,459 --> 00:05:51,997\n你這個可能打上一個大問號那天我就直接問你啊如果假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法長一塊你就願意負責下台那我覺得我還可以試著相信你但是我還是覺得說你過去一直擔任農事所的所長我也很尊重你的專業但是農民不能變成你的實驗品這些植物可以農民不可以他們每天都要面臨\n\n16\n00:05:52,978 --> 00:06:17,440\n文保的問題你不能把他們當作說有可能一年可以增加一塊三年可以增加三塊本席現在要求的是說應該要並行你公糧收購價格提高你不管是要提高一塊兩塊三塊四塊五塊六塊這個是一部分另外你要一級二選三加三我們也不反對你嘛你可以並行一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛\n\n17\n00:06:20,295 --> 00:06:36,085\n我跟委員說明齁其實農業部在思考就是當我去確保農民收業的時候我更希望這個產業是進步的那如果純粹只是發錢結束當然非常簡單我現在就在告訴你說你不能只想績效你不能只想理想他們是人\n\n18\n00:06:36,986 --> 00:06:41,908\n我們台灣農業要進步一定是不斷的要往前你農業要進步你要先把農民照顧好嘛農民都沒有辦法溫飽了你要求進步你不能眼睛只看到績效只看到理想要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決的我只希望說部長部長你不要辜負他們的期待我們對你是有很深的期待我知道說你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有計判的\n\n19\n00:07:04,975 --> 00:07:33,449\n但是我希望說我們喔目標既然一致就能夠找到可以並行的方式一邊照顧農民一邊兼顧發展農業的理想這才是正途這才是正伴就像我剛才問你的你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心你敢不敢賭上你的前程說假設一年沒辦法長一塊你就要下台我不做這樣的問題的回應是吧所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說他是一年會長一塊嗎\n\n20\n00:07:35,653 --> 00:07:56,960\n我我我任何的一個政策都有一個目標然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品他絕對不是一個實驗品但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品我只是要求說我們雙軌並行尊重民意照顧農民對你來說其實是沒有差別的你還是可以去做一擊二轉三加三呀\n\n21\n00:07:58,231 --> 00:08:01,856\n我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個我支持啊我不反對但我也希望你落實照顧農民把這公糧收購每公斤5塊進入編導預算你不要去影響總預算嘛怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢\n\n22\n00:08:13,859 --> 00:08:30,949\n這絕對不是為了我們的一個工糧的部分因為工糧如果真的提高了5塊的話那相對的整個產業的另外我想要請教部長的是說包括這個農業AI的部分我知道說這個費用現在目前一些補助都編在都編在這個\n\n23\n00:08:33,610 --> 00:08:41,924\n科技司這個部分內容是不是可以給我們知道一下讓我可以對農民宣傳以利他們申請可以我們廢後再提供給委員好謝謝張嘉鈞委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3823\t7025\t主席 我想請陳部長 請農業部陳部長部長 最近這幾個月以來 早安 我們就這個國土計畫法有關於這個農地劃設的部分交換了意見那對於農一農二甚至345農345農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助 可以請部長具體的回答嗎\n30259\t54100\t我想我們現在我還是一句話就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式的起伏他跟國土計畫不對然是絕對的關係不管國土計畫是不是延後如期我們都會實施這第一個我知道他是沒有直接關係但是他是相互影響的因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫要執行但是你的堆疊式補助到現在\n54941\t73543\t不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎?請問一下為什麼沒辦法提出?是跳票了嗎?不是,我想我們內部已經做了一些規劃,但是我們對於農業的堆疊式給付的規劃過程中,我們內部完了以後,我們一定會對外去徵求各界的意見,包括\n73763\t74463\t所以大概內容有什麼樣子的?內容的部分大概分為三個區塊\n101902\t128526\t應該五個區塊第一個區塊是對地給付的部分那對地給付的部分過去都是在特農一般農嘛那未來這個範圍會擴大所以農三四五也會有這個會看後續我們還會再跟利害關係人做討論基本上會擴大那第二個部分是糧食安全給付的部分那糧食安全給付的部分會做一些調整金人會做一些調整\n129046\t133328\t那我可以請教說規劃的這麼好這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助到底什麼時候才可以把它公諸於民呢?這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢?\n158191\t172387\t我們初步規劃起來大概一年大概是兩百多億兩百多億所以這個遞住下去你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫只要你從事農業都沒有影響\n174089\t176531\t我現在就是擔心的是其實國土計畫我前幾天遇到那個劉世芳部長我就跟他說其實我們不一定要他延遲實行只要農民的權益有受到保障我們完全不反對\n188641\t201099\t但是他對於你的業務執掌呢他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路\n204344\t212145\t我講劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我進度,我們盡量在溝通但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出你具體的具體的你要堆疊是要怎麼補助你的內容是什麼農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別到底在哪裡你知道有多少鄉親問我說我現在是不可以農一啦我想要農二因為農一的限制多我問你,你如果現在變農二你如果假設變了農二\n232809\t255325\t結果他告訴你說某某某某補助只有農醫能領你讓這些鄉親你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢所以我還是跟委員說明就是我們的對地地脊腹跟我們的這些措施下去不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤他不是一個對價他必然會是一個連結沒有我不會說他延期我就不處理了\n256265\t256885\t請問部長目前預計怎麼解決這個問題我想我們\n285991\t288314\t這個是另外你要執行的跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的\n301750\t305912\t我現在就告訴你說本席覺得你要並行可以可是你不能把農民當作實驗品你知道嗎他們是活的他們需要生活他們的生計需要保障不是說你告訴我說一級二轉三加三可能一年會增加一塊\n323459\t351997\t你這個可能打上一個大問號那天我就直接問你啊如果假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法長一塊你就願意負責下台那我覺得我還可以試著相信你但是我還是覺得說你過去一直擔任農事所的所長我也很尊重你的專業但是農民不能變成你的實驗品這些植物可以農民不可以他們每天都要面臨\n352978\t377440\t文保的問題你不能把他們當作說有可能一年可以增加一塊三年可以增加三塊本席現在要求的是說應該要並行你公糧收購價格提高你不管是要提高一塊兩塊三塊四塊五塊六塊這個是一部分另外你要一級二選三加三我們也不反對你嘛你可以並行一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛\n380295\t396085\t我跟委員說明齁其實農業部在思考就是當我去確保農民收業的時候我更希望這個產業是進步的那如果純粹只是發錢結束當然非常簡單我現在就在告訴你說你不能只想績效你不能只想理想他們是人\n396986\t401908\t我們台灣農業要進步一定是不斷的要往前你農業要進步你要先把農民照顧好嘛農民都沒有辦法溫飽了你要求進步你不能眼睛只看到績效只看到理想要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決的我只希望說部長部長你不要辜負他們的期待我們對你是有很深的期待我知道說你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有計判的\n424975\t453449\t但是我希望說我們喔目標既然一致就能夠找到可以並行的方式一邊照顧農民一邊兼顧發展農業的理想這才是正途這才是正伴就像我剛才問你的你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心你敢不敢賭上你的前程說假設一年沒辦法長一塊你就要下台我不做這樣的問題的回應是吧所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說他是一年會長一塊嗎\n455653\t476960\t我我我任何的一個政策都有一個目標然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品他絕對不是一個實驗品但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品我只是要求說我們雙軌並行尊重民意照顧農民對你來說其實是沒有差別的你還是可以去做一擊二轉三加三呀\n478231\t481856\t我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個我支持啊我不反對但我也希望你落實照顧農民把這公糧收購每公斤5塊進入編導預算你不要去影響總預算嘛怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢\n493859\t510949\t這絕對不是為了我們的一個工糧的部分因為工糧如果真的提高了5塊的話那相對的整個產業的另外我想要請教部長的是說包括這個農業AI的部分我知道說這個費用現在目前一些補助都編在都編在這個\n513610\t521924\t科技司這個部分內容是不是可以給我們知道一下讓我可以對農民宣傳以利他們申請可以我們廢後再提供給委員好謝謝張嘉鈞委員謝謝\n","txt":"主席 我想請陳部長 請農業部陳部長部長 最近這幾個月以來 早安 我們就這個國土計畫法有關於這個農地劃設的部分交換了意見那對於農一農二甚至345農345農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助 可以請部長具體的回答嗎\n我想我們現在我還是一句話就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式的起伏他跟國土計畫不對然是絕對的關係不管國土計畫是不是延後如期我們都會實施這第一個我知道他是沒有直接關係但是他是相互影響的因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫要執行但是你的堆疊式補助到現在\n不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎?請問一下為什麼沒辦法提出?是跳票了嗎?不是,我想我們內部已經做了一些規劃,但是我們對於農業的堆疊式給付的規劃過程中,我們內部完了以後,我們一定會對外去徵求各界的意見,包括\n所以大概內容有什麼樣子的?內容的部分大概分為三個區塊\n應該五個區塊第一個區塊是對地給付的部分那對地給付的部分過去都是在特農一般農嘛那未來這個範圍會擴大所以農三四五也會有這個會看後續我們還會再跟利害關係人做討論基本上會擴大那第二個部分是糧食安全給付的部分那糧食安全給付的部分會做一些調整金人會做一些調整\n那我可以請教說規劃的這麼好這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助到底什麼時候才可以把它公諸於民呢?這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢?\n我們初步規劃起來大概一年大概是兩百多億兩百多億所以這個遞住下去你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫只要你從事農業都沒有影響\n我現在就是擔心的是其實國土計畫我前幾天遇到那個劉世芳部長我就跟他說其實我們不一定要他延遲實行只要農民的權益有受到保障我們完全不反對\n但是他對於你的業務執掌呢他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路\n我講劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我進度,我們盡量在溝通但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出你具體的具體的你要堆疊是要怎麼補助你的內容是什麼農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別到底在哪裡你知道有多少鄉親問我說我現在是不可以農一啦我想要農二因為農一的限制多我問你,你如果現在變農二你如果假設變了農二\n結果他告訴你說某某某某補助只有農醫能領你讓這些鄉親你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢所以我還是跟委員說明就是我們的對地地脊腹跟我們的這些措施下去不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤他不是一個對價他必然會是一個連結沒有我不會說他延期我就不處理了\n請問部長目前預計怎麼解決這個問題我想我們\n這個是另外你要執行的跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的\n我現在就告訴你說本席覺得你要並行可以可是你不能把農民當作實驗品你知道嗎他們是活的他們需要生活他們的生計需要保障不是說你告訴我說一級二轉三加三可能一年會增加一塊\n你這個可能打上一個大問號那天我就直接問你啊如果假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法長一塊你就願意負責下台那我覺得我還可以試著相信你但是我還是覺得說你過去一直擔任農事所的所長我也很尊重你的專業但是農民不能變成你的實驗品這些植物可以農民不可以他們每天都要面臨\n文保的問題你不能把他們當作說有可能一年可以增加一塊三年可以增加三塊本席現在要求的是說應該要並行你公糧收購價格提高你不管是要提高一塊兩塊三塊四塊五塊六塊這個是一部分另外你要一級二選三加三我們也不反對你嘛你可以並行一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛\n我跟委員說明齁其實農業部在思考就是當我去確保農民收業的時候我更希望這個產業是進步的那如果純粹只是發錢結束當然非常簡單我現在就在告訴你說你不能只想績效你不能只想理想他們是人\n我們台灣農業要進步一定是不斷的要往前你農業要進步你要先把農民照顧好嘛農民都沒有辦法溫飽了你要求進步你不能眼睛只看到績效只看到理想要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決的我只希望說部長部長你不要辜負他們的期待我們對你是有很深的期待我知道說你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有計判的\n但是我希望說我們喔目標既然一致就能夠找到可以並行的方式一邊照顧農民一邊兼顧發展農業的理想這才是正途這才是正伴就像我剛才問你的你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心你敢不敢賭上你的前程說假設一年沒辦法長一塊你就要下台我不做這樣的問題的回應是吧所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說他是一年會長一塊嗎\n我我我任何的一個政策都有一個目標然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品他絕對不是一個實驗品但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品我只是要求說我們雙軌並行尊重民意照顧農民對你來說其實是沒有差別的你還是可以去做一擊二轉三加三呀\n我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個我支持啊我不反對但我也希望你落實照顧農民把這公糧收購每公斤5塊進入編導預算你不要去影響總預算嘛怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢\n這絕對不是為了我們的一個工糧的部分因為工糧如果真的提高了5塊的話那相對的整個產業的另外我想要請教部長的是說包括這個農業AI的部分我知道說這個費用現在目前一些補助都編在都編在這個\n科技司這個部分內容是不是可以給我們知道一下讓我可以對農民宣傳以利他們申請可以我們廢後再提供給委員好謝謝張嘉鈞委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.823 --> 00:07.025\n主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長部長最近這幾個月以來早安我們就這個國土計畫法有關於這個農地劃設的部分交換了意見那對於農一農二甚至345農345農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助可以請部長具體的回答嗎\n\n00:30.259 --> 00:54.100\n我想我們現在我還是一句話就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式的起伏他跟國土計畫不對然是絕對的關係不管國土計畫是不是延後如期我們都會實施這第一個我知道他是沒有直接關係但是他是相互影響的因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫要執行但是你的堆疊式補助到現在\n\n00:54.941 --> 01:13.543\n不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎?請問一下為什麼沒辦法提出?是跳票了嗎?不是,我想我們內部已經做了一些規劃,但是我們對於農業的堆疊式給付的規劃過程中,我們內部完了以後,我們一定會對外去徵求各界的意見,包括\n\n01:13.763 --> 01:14.463\n所以大概內容有什麼樣子的?內容的部分大概分為三個區塊\n\n01:41.902 --> 02:08.526\n應該五個區塊第一個區塊是對地給付的部分那對地給付的部分過去都是在特農一般農嘛那未來這個範圍會擴大所以農三四五也會有這個會看後續我們還會再跟利害關係人做討論基本上會擴大那第二個部分是糧食安全給付的部分那糧食安全給付的部分會做一些調整金人會做一些調整\n\n02:09.046 --> 02:13.328\n那我可以請教說規劃的這麼好這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助到底什麼時候才可以把它公諸於民呢?這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢?\n\n02:38.191 --> 02:52.387\n我們初步規劃起來大概一年大概是兩百多億兩百多億所以這個遞住下去你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫只要你從事農業都沒有影響\n\n02:54.089 --> 02:56.531\n我現在就是擔心的是其實國土計畫我前幾天遇到那個劉世芳部長我就跟他說其實我們不一定要他延遲實行只要農民的權益有受到保障我們完全不反對\n\n03:08.641 --> 03:21.099\n但是他對於你的業務執掌呢他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路\n\n03:24.344 --> 03:32.145\n我講劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我進度,我們盡量在溝通但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出你具體的具體的你要堆疊是要怎麼補助你的內容是什麼農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別到底在哪裡你知道有多少鄉親問我說我現在是不可以農一啦我想要農二因為農一的限制多我問你,你如果現在變農二你如果假設變了農二\n\n03:52.809 --> 04:15.325\n結果他告訴你說某某某某補助只有農醫能領你讓這些鄉親你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢所以我還是跟委員說明就是我們的對地地脊腹跟我們的這些措施下去不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤他不是一個對價他必然會是一個連結沒有我不會說他延期我就不處理了\n\n04:16.265 --> 04:16.885\n請問部長目前預計怎麼解決這個問題我想我們\n\n04:45.991 --> 04:48.314\n這個是另外你要執行的跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的\n\n05:01.750 --> 05:05.912\n我現在就告訴你說本席覺得你要並行可以可是你不能把農民當作實驗品你知道嗎他們是活的他們需要生活他們的生計需要保障不是說你告訴我說一級二轉三加三可能一年會增加一塊\n\n05:23.459 --> 05:51.997\n你這個可能打上一個大問號那天我就直接問你啊如果假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法長一塊你就願意負責下台那我覺得我還可以試著相信你但是我還是覺得說你過去一直擔任農事所的所長我也很尊重你的專業但是農民不能變成你的實驗品這些植物可以農民不可以他們每天都要面臨\n\n05:52.978 --> 06:17.440\n文保的問題你不能把他們當作說有可能一年可以增加一塊三年可以增加三塊本席現在要求的是說應該要並行你公糧收購價格提高你不管是要提高一塊兩塊三塊四塊五塊六塊這個是一部分另外你要一級二選三加三我們也不反對你嘛你可以並行一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛\n\n06:20.295 --> 06:36.085\n我跟委員說明齁其實農業部在思考就是當我去確保農民收業的時候我更希望這個產業是進步的那如果純粹只是發錢結束當然非常簡單我現在就在告訴你說你不能只想績效你不能只想理想他們是人\n\n06:36.986 --> 06:41.908\n我們台灣農業要進步一定是不斷的要往前你農業要進步你要先把農民照顧好嘛農民都沒有辦法溫飽了你要求進步你不能眼睛只看到績效只看到理想要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決的我只希望說部長部長你不要辜負他們的期待我們對你是有很深的期待我知道說你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有計判的\n\n07:04.975 --> 07:33.449\n但是我希望說我們喔目標既然一致就能夠找到可以並行的方式一邊照顧農民一邊兼顧發展農業的理想這才是正途這才是正伴就像我剛才問你的你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心你敢不敢賭上你的前程說假設一年沒辦法長一塊你就要下台我不做這樣的問題的回應是吧所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說他是一年會長一塊嗎\n\n07:35.653 --> 07:56.960\n我我我任何的一個政策都有一個目標然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品他絕對不是一個實驗品但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品我只是要求說我們雙軌並行尊重民意照顧農民對你來說其實是沒有差別的你還是可以去做一擊二轉三加三呀\n\n07:58.231 --> 08:01.856\n我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個我支持啊我不反對但我也希望你落實照顧農民把這公糧收購每公斤5塊進入編導預算你不要去影響總預算嘛怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢\n\n08:13.859 --> 08:30.949\n這絕對不是為了我們的一個工糧的部分因為工糧如果真的提高了5塊的話那相對的整個產業的另外我想要請教部長的是說包括這個農業AI的部分我知道說這個費用現在目前一些補助都編在都編在這個\n\n08:33.610 --> 08:41.924\n科技司這個部分內容是不是可以給我們知道一下讓我可以對農民宣傳以利他們申請可以我們廢後再提供給委員好謝謝張嘉鈞委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.823,"end":7.025,"text":"主席 我想請陳部長 請農業部陳部長部長 最近這幾個月以來 早安 我們就這個國土計畫法有關於這個農地劃設的部分交換了意見那對於農一農二甚至345農345農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助 可以請部長具體的回答嗎"},{"start":30.259,"end":54.1,"text":"我想我們現在我還是一句話就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式的起伏他跟國土計畫不對然是絕對的關係不管國土計畫是不是延後如期我們都會實施這第一個我知道他是沒有直接關係但是他是相互影響的因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫要執行但是你的堆疊式補助到現在"},{"start":54.941,"end":73.543,"text":"不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎?請問一下為什麼沒辦法提出?是跳票了嗎?不是,我想我們內部已經做了一些規劃,但是我們對於農業的堆疊式給付的規劃過程中,我們內部完了以後,我們一定會對外去徵求各界的意見,包括"},{"start":73.763,"end":74.463,"text":"所以大概內容有什麼樣子的?內容的部分大概分為三個區塊"},{"start":101.902,"end":128.526,"text":"應該五個區塊第一個區塊是對地給付的部分那對地給付的部分過去都是在特農一般農嘛那未來這個範圍會擴大所以農三四五也會有這個會看後續我們還會再跟利害關係人做討論基本上會擴大那第二個部分是糧食安全給付的部分那糧食安全給付的部分會做一些調整金人會做一些調整"},{"start":129.046,"end":133.328,"text":"那我可以請教說規劃的這麼好這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助到底什麼時候才可以把它公諸於民呢?這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢?"},{"start":158.191,"end":172.387,"text":"我們初步規劃起來大概一年大概是兩百多億兩百多億所以這個遞住下去你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫只要你從事農業都沒有影響"},{"start":174.089,"end":176.531,"text":"我現在就是擔心的是其實國土計畫我前幾天遇到那個劉世芳部長我就跟他說其實我們不一定要他延遲實行只要農民的權益有受到保障我們完全不反對"},{"start":188.641,"end":201.099,"text":"但是他對於你的業務執掌呢他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路"},{"start":204.344,"end":212.145,"text":"我講劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我進度,我們盡量在溝通但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出你具體的具體的你要堆疊是要怎麼補助你的內容是什麼農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別到底在哪裡你知道有多少鄉親問我說我現在是不可以農一啦我想要農二因為農一的限制多我問你,你如果現在變農二你如果假設變了農二"},{"start":232.809,"end":255.325,"text":"結果他告訴你說某某某某補助只有農醫能領你讓這些鄉親你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢所以我還是跟委員說明就是我們的對地地脊腹跟我們的這些措施下去不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤他不是一個對價他必然會是一個連結沒有我不會說他延期我就不處理了"},{"start":256.265,"end":256.885,"text":"請問部長目前預計怎麼解決這個問題我想我們"},{"start":285.991,"end":288.314,"text":"這個是另外你要執行的跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的"},{"start":301.75,"end":305.912,"text":"我現在就告訴你說本席覺得你要並行可以可是你不能把農民當作實驗品你知道嗎他們是活的他們需要生活他們的生計需要保障不是說你告訴我說一級二轉三加三可能一年會增加一塊"},{"start":323.459,"end":351.997,"text":"你這個可能打上一個大問號那天我就直接問你啊如果假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法長一塊你就願意負責下台那我覺得我還可以試著相信你但是我還是覺得說你過去一直擔任農事所的所長我也很尊重你的專業但是農民不能變成你的實驗品這些植物可以農民不可以他們每天都要面臨"},{"start":352.978,"end":377.44,"text":"文保的問題你不能把他們當作說有可能一年可以增加一塊三年可以增加三塊本席現在要求的是說應該要並行你公糧收購價格提高你不管是要提高一塊兩塊三塊四塊五塊六塊這個是一部分另外你要一級二選三加三我們也不反對你嘛你可以並行一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛"},{"start":380.295,"end":396.085,"text":"我跟委員說明齁其實農業部在思考就是當我去確保農民收業的時候我更希望這個產業是進步的那如果純粹只是發錢結束當然非常簡單我現在就在告訴你說你不能只想績效你不能只想理想他們是人"},{"start":396.986,"end":401.908,"text":"我們台灣農業要進步一定是不斷的要往前你農業要進步你要先把農民照顧好嘛農民都沒有辦法溫飽了你要求進步你不能眼睛只看到績效只看到理想要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決的我只希望說部長部長你不要辜負他們的期待我們對你是有很深的期待我知道說你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有計判的"},{"start":424.975,"end":453.449,"text":"但是我希望說我們喔目標既然一致就能夠找到可以並行的方式一邊照顧農民一邊兼顧發展農業的理想這才是正途這才是正伴就像我剛才問你的你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心你敢不敢賭上你的前程說假設一年沒辦法長一塊你就要下台我不做這樣的問題的回應是吧所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說他是一年會長一塊嗎"},{"start":455.653,"end":476.96,"text":"我我我任何的一個政策都有一個目標然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品他絕對不是一個實驗品但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品我只是要求說我們雙軌並行尊重民意照顧農民對你來說其實是沒有差別的你還是可以去做一擊二轉三加三呀"},{"start":478.231,"end":481.856,"text":"我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個我支持啊我不反對但我也希望你落實照顧農民把這公糧收購每公斤5塊進入編導預算你不要去影響總預算嘛怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢"},{"start":493.859,"end":510.949,"text":"這絕對不是為了我們的一個工糧的部分因為工糧如果真的提高了5塊的話那相對的整個產業的另外我想要請教部長的是說包括這個農業AI的部分我知道說這個費用現在目前一些補助都編在都編在這個"},{"start":513.61,"end":521.924,"text":"科技司這個部分內容是不是可以給我們知道一下讓我可以對農民宣傳以利他們申請可以我們廢後再提供給委員好謝謝張嘉鈞委員謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-4","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:58:48 - 10:07:33","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155278,"gazette":{"lineno":239,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（9時58分）主席，我想請陳部長。"],["主席：請農業部陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：早安，部長，最近這幾個月以來我們就這個國土計畫法有關於農地劃設的部分交換了意見，對於農一、農二甚至農三、農四、農五所做農政資源的投入到底有哪些不同的補助，可以請部長具體的回答嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我還是一句話，就是我們現在在規劃的堆疊式給付跟國土計畫不必然是絕對的關係，不管國土計畫是不是延後或如期，我們都會實施，這是第一個。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，我知道它是沒有直接關係，但是它是相互影響的，因為國土計畫現在迫在眉睫，已經要執行了，但是你的堆疊式補助不是說9月底要提出辦法嗎？請問為什麼沒辦法提出，是跳票了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我們內部已經做了一些規劃，但是對於農業堆疊式給付的過程，我們內部完了以後，一定會對外去徵求各界的意見，包括……"],["張委員嘉郡：可以請教本來不是說9月底要開始公布嗎？為什麼現在10月了還沒有辦法公布，有遇到什麼困難嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們內部已經做了一些規劃，接下來我們在10月間就會啟動一些不同利害關係人的說明會，然後……"],["張委員嘉郡：大概有什麼樣的內容？"],["陳部長駿季：內容的部分大概分為五個區塊，第一個區塊是對地給付的部分，對地給付的部分過去都是在特農、一般農，未來這個範圍會擴大。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以農三、四、五也會有？"],["陳部長駿季：這個後續我們還會再跟利害關係人做討論，基本上會擴大。","第二個部分是糧食安全給付的部分，糧食安全給付的部分在金額上會做一些調整，會針對我們所需要引導的作物，最重要的是生態給付的部分，過去生態給付只有針對瀕臨物種保育的給付，我們未來對節水……"],["張委員嘉郡：我可以請教說，規劃得這麼好、這麼完善的一個堆疊式補助，到底什麼時候才可以把它公諸於民呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們初步的規劃出來了，接下來我們會針對不同的利害關係人做溝通……"],["張委員嘉郡：這樣加起來一年大概要多少錢呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們初步規劃起來，一年大概是兩百多億。"],["張委員嘉郡：這一個挹注下去，你覺得對我們農業會有很明顯的幫助嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們不管是現在到未來的國土計畫，只要你從事農業都沒有影響，我們有針對這部分的支持……"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在擔心的是，我前幾天遇到劉世芳部長我就跟他說，其實我們不一定要國土計畫延遲實行，只要農民的權益有受到保障，我們完全不反對，但是他對於你的業務職掌，他完全沒有辦法掌握你的進度，所以你們兩個是不是能夠橫向溝通一下？這樣子才能夠一邊對我們的農民有保障，一邊又不影響國土計畫法上路。部長，你怎麼看？"],["陳部長駿季：我想劉部長絕對不可能說他沒辦法掌握我的進度，我們經常在溝通。"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你到現在還沒有辦法拿出具體的作法，例如堆疊式要怎麼補助、你的內容是什麼、農一跟農二之間的農政資源分別到底在哪裡？你知道有多少鄉親問我說，我現在是不要農一，我想要農二，因為農一的限制多。我問他，我說，你如果現在編農二，結果他告訴你說，某補助只有農一能領，你讓這些農民怎麼辦呢？"],["陳部長駿季：所以我還是跟委員說明，我們的堆疊式給付跟我們的這些措施下去，不會跟國土計畫做掛鉤，它不是一個對價。"],["張委員嘉郡：它必然會是一個連結嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我不會說它延期我就不處理了，我還是會去做，所以它不一樣……"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道啊！問題是你要先處理，它才有辦法上路啊！等於你卡住它了。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，只要你從事農業，完全沒有影響。"],["張委員嘉郡：你心裡是這樣想，但是問題是事實上就不是這樣嘛！","另外我再問你，你應該非常清楚，總預算退回這件事情的原因之一就是農業部未編列本院通過提高公糧收購價格每公斤5元的這個預算，請問部長目前預計怎麼解決這個問題？"],["陳部長駿季：我想保障稻農或確保稻農的收益是大家一致的目標，我們用另外一個1集、2轉、3加3的政策，同樣的也能夠……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個是另外你要執行的，跟立法院通過的決議是不相干的。"],["陳部長駿季：立法院通過的決議因為有扯到費用的問題……"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在就告訴你，本席覺得你要並行可以，可是你不能把農民當作實驗品，你知道嗎？他們是活的，他們需要生活，他們的生計需要保障，不是說你告訴我1集、2轉、3加3，「可能」一年會增加1塊，你這個「可能」讓大家打上一個大問號。那天我就直接問你，假設你可以跟本席保證說一年沒辦法漲1塊，你就願意負責下臺，那我覺得我還可以試著相信你，但是我還是覺得，你過去一直擔任農試所的所長，我也很尊重你的專業，但是農民不能變成你的實驗品，這些植物可以，農民不可以，他們每天都要面臨溫飽的問題，你不能把他們當作說，有可能一年可以增加1塊，三年可以增加3塊。本席現在要求的是應該要並行，公糧收購價格提高，你不管是要提高1塊、2塊、3塊、4塊、5塊、6塊，這個是一部分，另外，你要1集、2轉、3加3，我們也不反對嘛！你可以並行，一直找到最好的同時發展的機會嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，其實農業部在思考的就是，當我去確保農民收益的時候，我更希望這個產業是進步的，如果純粹只是發錢結束，當然非常簡單，但是產業不會進步。"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在就在告訴你，你不能只想績效、你不能只想理想，他們是人。"],["陳部長駿季：不是理想，我們臺灣農業要進步，一定是不斷的要往前。"],["張委員嘉郡：農業要進步，你要先把農民照顧好嘛！農民都沒有辦法溫飽了，你要求進步？你不能眼睛只看到績效，只看到理想。"],["陳部長駿季：要照顧農民不是只有發錢就解決了，我們希望透過系統能夠來處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：我只希望部長你不要辜負他們的期待，我們對你是有很深的期待，我知道你的內心當中其實跟我一樣對農業是有期盼的，但是我希望我們目標既然一致，就能夠找到可以並行的方式，一邊照顧農民，一邊兼顧發展農業的理想，這才是正途，這才是正辦。就像我剛才問你的，你既然對你這個計畫那麼有信心，你敢不敢賭上你的前程說，假設一年沒辦法漲1塊，你就要下臺？"],["陳部長駿季：我不做這樣的問題的回應。"],["張委員嘉郡：是吧！所以你也沒有辦法百分之百有信心說它是一年會漲1塊嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：任何的政策都有一個目標，然後我們任何的一個政策不是把農民當作實驗品，他絕對不是一個實驗品。"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你的方式實際上是把他當作實驗品，我只是要求雙軌並行，尊重民意、照顧農民，對你來說其實是沒有差別的，你還是可以去做1集、2轉、3加3。"],["陳部長駿季：我還是希望委員能夠支持我們做這個。"],["張委員嘉郡：我支持啊！我不反對，但我也希望你落實照顧農民，把這個公糧收購每公斤5塊編到預算，你不要去影響總預算嘛！怎麼為了你一個人去卡總預算呢？"],["陳部長駿季：這絕對不是為了我們一個公糧的部分，因為公糧收購價格如果真的提高了5塊的話，相對的整個產業的……"],["張委員嘉郡：另外我想要請教部長，包括農業AI的部分，我知道這個費用目前一些補助都編在科技司，這個部分的內容是不是可以讓我們知道一下，讓我可以對農民宣傳，以利他們申請？"],["陳部長駿季：可以，我們會後再提供給委員。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員，部長請回座。","下一位質詢請張啓楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":294,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-4","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","王育敏","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","徐富癸","麥玉珍","張雅琳","羅智強","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","劉建國"],"page_start":229,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00015"}}}