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00:01:08,875\n報告委員據我對這件事情的了解應該都是在做專業方面的程序並沒有我沒有感受到任何其他的壓力是那8月15通過這個共理會議請問什麼時候會公告共理會議以後難道因為這個\n\n5\n00:01:10,857 --> 00:01:36,553\n因為在會議的代表其實對本案也沒有反對意見對那什麼時候遇到那個我們會並同全民健康保險藥品價格調整作業辦法部分修正部分調整的修正那這個部分大概是什麼時候已經199月30號報到衛福部我們將依程序進行法規命令預告公告事宜\n\n6\n00:01:37,594 --> 00:01:57,013\n所以部長大概什麼時候?對,大概。可不可以跟我講一個時間點?不是,我說要先預告啊。預告60天,所以我想我們應該很快就會預告。很快大概是什麼時候?可以跟我說嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:02,322 --> 00:02:14,568\n社保司有沒有那個依照這個如果已經報到衛福部然後社保司再整理一下因為我是希望一個月之內能夠\n\n8\n00:02:15,990 --> 00:02:32,872\n1個月之內會預告?1個月之內會預告那再來部長國內的復康巴士供不應求預約困難那也有許多身心障礙或是有長照需求的長輩跟朋友常常跟我們反映其實我們在地方非常感謝有各種的那種團體會捐贈復康巴士\n\n9\n00:02:33,593 --> 00:02:51,770\n但是我發現這扶植車的售價還蠻貴的不過還好有貨物稅的這個條例對於扶植車是有免稅的規定但部長你知道這個免稅規定即將到今年底到期嘛所以我也將提出這個貨物稅條例第12條修正草案延長扶植車的免稅年限\n\n10\n00:02:52,350 --> 00:03:09,940\n那我也算過因為這個有三大好處第一個福祉車可能增加讓民間捐贈的這個意願也會好一點再來就是駕駛人增加以及最重要就是我們身心障礙朋友跟陪伴照顧的接送者可以重返這個勞動市長是一舉數得所以我想要請教部長你是否贊同贊同這個贊同延長這個我們現在已經簽上去希望延長五年\n\n11\n00:03:17,822 --> 00:03:26,814\n您們簽了嘛,對不對?延長5年。好,那很謝謝部長贊同這個概念喔。所以我也希望說這件事情可以落實。拜託部長來努力一下。\n\n12\n00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:56,942\n再來部長4月份調漲電價錢其實我也曾經抨擊過說調漲前沒有完全的評估後來前行政院長陳建仁才說中央政府要仔細盤點然後我們也要求動漲醫院的電價決議最後也才做出地區醫院動漲的決議那請教部長10月這個電價調漲這件事情已經議論了好幾個月那0520上任前衛福部有沒有主動找經濟部或者是經濟部有沒有找衛福部討論調漲電價這件事情\n\n13\n00:03:59,625 --> 00:04:08,402\n我想這個溝通一直在持續,因為醫療...都?所以您覺得有一直在持續?所以有嘛對不對?這個溝通一直在持續。這過程中都有討論對不對?\n\n14\n00:04:11,892 --> 00:04:32,818\n那如果都有討論的話我想要請問為什麼還會出現所謂的菸草這個銷售零售業動漲然後菸草製造業減半但是醫院卻要全額調漲荒謬情形然後最後才被批評為健康台灣淪為菸草台灣最後才說要動漲所以我想要請教這個你們真的有評估過這個調漲電價對醫療體系的影響嗎\n\n15\n00:04:35,802 --> 00:04:54,879\n因為這個基本上是經濟部的權責啦。是啊,但是你應該可以去協調啊。出現,出現像攝、我這樣講,攝、攝醫齁,是比較,是動長的嘛。那醫,呃,醫院沒有,沒有。對,沒有,對,部長我這些都知道,我想要問你的就是說你有沒有主動去協調,你有沒有主動去說哪些\n\n16\n00:04:55,660 --> 00:04:57,001\n這是一回事喔?但是你有沒有去跟他們的人溝通過嗎?\n\n17\n00:05:11,508 --> 00:05:26,527\n因為你剛剛有說中間一直有在協調啊你中間都有說嘛你不是說一直在協調好沒關係部長這裡我想要請你就是真的要為就是在衛福部的這個角色裡面也是可以去跟他們協調說哪些東西你認為應該\n\n18\n00:05:28,029 --> 00:05:28,049\n是﹗\n\n19\n00:05:45,978 --> 00:06:08,522\n對,所以我現在就是要拜託部長這件事因為我還要跟你反映一件事情就是這波調漲電價的過程我國的製藥產業又被遺漏了那部長我們現在不是都在強調藥品的供應鏈穩定嗎那什麼關鍵時刻的時候就他們就遺漏了其實主要我要講的是製藥業跟這個藥局但因為最終受到影響的也是人民我等一下給你看喔\n\n20\n00:06:09,622 --> 00:06:34,133\n部長一個國產的健保藥當然不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無\n\n21\n00:06:36,594 --> 00:06:59,684\n這10%的售價那這10%是電力漲價所致而不是調漲原物料物品在有限時間內要從等於是他們說價格要乘以1.1那就是說藥品要漲價的意思所以我想要跟你說的就是說這是我們接獲的陳情那這是基層藥局也告知就基層的藥商通知基層藥局社區藥局的從10月1號開始要這樣子漲價所以我覺得這是一個連帶性的關係\n\n22\n00:07:04,406 --> 00:07:19,581\n好所以你們漲價不是所謂說0.03%的CPI衝擊而已其實這個連一般的人民的用藥連社區藥局的藥品都在漲啊而且還墊這個壓力也轉嫁到我們基層藥局所以我要為他們發聲喔他們社區藥局在新冠疫情期間幫我們發口罩對不對\n\n23\n00:07:21,883 --> 00:07:31,948\n然後用快篩那也是社區的第一道防線我覺得當時幸好有全國的藥師幫忙才可以讓這疫情有得到控制就這兩次調漲電價請問有哪一個衛福部的官員去替他們爭取說免漲或動漲電價\n\n24\n00:07:39,332 --> 00:08:03,462\n因為相關的醫療醫事院手其實機構也蠻多的所以我也希望說如果各個醫事機構在覺得說這樣的調漲對人民是不好的是那個都不用客氣都可以跟衛福部來反映所以部長我現在就是在跟你反映我每次都稱讚社區藥局有多幫忙當需要他們幫忙的時候就叫他們去發口罩叫他們發快篩\n\n25\n00:08:04,162 --> 00:08:19,755\n但是現在主責機關在面對這件事的時候卻沉默那其實讓他們都覺得好像是免洗筷被用完就丟但是我知道部長是個溫暖的人我相信你不是想要把它當免洗筷所以我希望您可以回去我剛剛已經講一整個脈絡了你的那個製藥業漲然後那個藥品漲社區藥局也有壓力社區藥局的電價也調漲雖然說它衝擊不見得到\n\n26\n00:08:28,963 --> 00:08:30,385\n因為他還是有幾個原則審議會還是有原則如果能夠\n\n27\n00:08:47,143 --> 00:08:49,745\n沒關係部長這個邏輯你不用跟我講拜託你回去反映你覺得這個邏輯對不對如果你認為你也認同\n\n28\n00:09:09,915 --> 00:09:25,965\n我是覺得喔,那個相關的單位能夠提出他的一個理由跟訴求我們比較好去反映啦好,你意思是說假設這些藥師協會可以提出這些訴求的話那你不能,你沒辦法主動去幫他們反映嗎?對嘛,那這就好,雙邊進行齁,那這就是你這邊\n\n29\n00:09:33,849 --> 00:09:34,710\n另外還有一個問題就是你們疾管署死不認錯\n\n30\n00:09:53,399 --> 00:10:18,871\n部長今年5月2號上任的時候和陳昭芝委員也共同開了一場記者會內容是高等行政法院針對新冠疫苗救濟案件判決衛福部敗訴那敗訴理由中羅列各項缺失相關的審查會議應錄音並且保存但是是沒有但疾管署始終不願意去面對法官的指證去做改進\n\n31\n00:10:19,651 --> 00:10:33,609\n那這個案子後來家屬跟律師又向賴總統陳情總統府很快的回應說希望機關署保存開會錄音並公佈所有參考的文獻等等那請衛福部著處敬賦並複製總統府但是貴部卻回文說\n\n32\n00:10:40,647 --> 00:10:56,065\n是否保存開會過程錄音或公布參考文獻片名並無外其審議結果之正確性及釋法性?部長,總統府都下了公文請問部長為什麼不能公開?不能公開理由是什麼?他也要你們公開為什麼要繼續黑箱?\n\n33\n00:10:56,505 --> 00:10:58,226\n2小時審完90件案件,平均一個案件才80秒。\n\n34\n00:11:22,319 --> 00:11:38,175\n甚至有多次會議審議下來平均不到80秒一個人命這樣走了然後你們說很專業審議然後健保署的共理會議不僅在網站上有公開所有完整會議記錄連錄音檔都有可是為什麼這個簡單的公開透明疾管署做不到\n\n35\n00:11:39,226 --> 00:12:04,832\n而且你們所謂的專家喔憑良心講啊之前都有資料啊專家很多根本就沒有參與多久喔所謂專家會議他在裡面待的時間非常的短最後只剩下少部分人品了所以部長我想喔我真的要強烈的指責你們衛福部跟疾管署如果連這麼基本的公開透明都做不到如何取信人民你要想這些受害者當初他等於是冒著他的生命危險去打了這個為了\n\n36\n00:12:06,172 --> 00:12:09,294\n我們對於民眾因為不管因為什麼原因受傷或死亡我們真的是非常非常的難過跟遺憾\n\n37\n00:12:33,371 --> 00:12:35,874\n部長我真的不希望在你們在持續的所謂的這種黑箱啊然後就是做一套做一套喔\n\n38\n00:12:54,295 --> 00:13:15,391\n喔這些家屬很可憐啊我自己也有身邊也有好朋友他是年輕人啊我絕對不會做黑箱任何黑箱作業但是如果他不能公告的委員比如說名單啊或者是他的記錄齁這個部分我們去了解能公開的我們盡量公開而且你們其實那個案件到現在還在上訴還不想要不想要理賠啊\n\n39\n00:13:16,616 --> 00:13:44,791\n沒有,那也不是不想理會,也不是像報紙講的說我們去請三個律師,而是說我們去委託一個一個事務所,事務所裡面有很多醫生的,沒有,那很多就是事務的嘛所以不是說請很多律師啦部長這件事情不要再辯解,我覺得你們真的回去好好的用心面對,你們這樣子再搞下去,未來也沒有人敢這個參與所謂的工為了大家全社會的公衛,然後還要去打這個疫苗,欸這些人這樣子過世了,就國家\n\n40\n00:13:45,831 --> 00:13:53,938\n好,我們一定用最專業、最公正的立場來處理這些事情,請放心好,謝謝部長好,謝謝薛委員應該是用\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7481\t19948\t謝謝主席有請我們部長委員長部長好那我拿一下這個好了\n22574\t37428\t部長好這個為了要健保永續跟解決缺藥跟穩定藥品供應鏈很鼓勵國產保障國人的用藥安全的部分所以今年3月的時候我也曾經提出藥價調整的三原則的決議那也獲得了衛福部的同意那\n38169\t52097\t建保署的共你會議也在8月15號就已經通過了但是這個案子到現在不僅沒有公告連預告也還沒開始想要請教部長為何遲遲沒有公布是背後有什麼力量干預嗎是總統府還是有什麼國策顧問嗎導致你還不簽\n54878\t68875\t報告委員據我對這件事情的了解應該都是在做專業方面的程序並沒有我沒有感受到任何其他的壓力是那8月15通過這個共理會議請問什麼時候會公告共理會議以後難道因為這個\n70857\t96553\t因為在會議的代表其實對本案也沒有反對意見對 那什麼時候遇到那個我們會並同全民健康保險藥品價格調整作業辦法部分修正部分調整的修正那這個部分大概是什麼時候已經199月30號報到衛福部我們將依程序進行法規命令預告公告事宜\n97594\t117013\t所以部長大概什麼時候?對,大概。可不可以跟我講一個時間點?不是,我說要先預告啊。預告60天,所以我想我們應該很快就會預告。很快大概是什麼時候?可以跟我說嗎?\n122322\t134568\t社保司有沒有那個依照這個如果已經報到衛福部然後社保司再整理一下因為我是希望一個月之內能夠\n135990\t152872\t1個月之內會預告?1個月之內會預告那再來部長國內的復康巴士供不應求預約困難那也有許多身心障礙或是有長照需求的長輩跟朋友常常跟我們反映其實我們在地方非常感謝有各種的那種團體會捐贈復康巴士\n153593\t171770\t但是我發現這扶植車的售價還蠻貴的不過還好有貨物稅的這個條例對於扶植車是有免稅的規定但部長你知道這個免稅規定即將到今年底到期嘛所以我也將提出這個貨物稅條例第12條修正草案延長扶植車的免稅年限\n172350\t189940\t那我也算過因為這個有三大好處第一個福祉車可能增加讓民間捐贈的這個意願也會好一點再來就是駕駛人增加以及最重要就是我們身心障礙朋友跟陪伴照顧的接送者可以重返這個勞動市長是一舉數得所以我想要請教部長你是否贊同贊同這個贊同延長這個我們現在已經簽上去希望延長五年\n197822\t206814\t您們簽了嘛,對不對?延長5年。好,那很謝謝部長贊同這個概念喔。所以我也希望說這件事情可以落實。拜託部長來努力一下。\n208240\t236942\t再來部長4月份調漲電價錢其實我也曾經抨擊過說調漲前沒有完全的評估後來前行政院長陳建仁才說中央政府要仔細盤點然後我們也要求動漲醫院的電價決議最後也才做出地區醫院動漲的決議那請教部長10月這個電價調漲這件事情已經議論了好幾個月那0520上任前衛福部有沒有主動找經濟部或者是經濟部有沒有找衛福部討論調漲電價這件事情\n239625\t248402\t我想這個溝通一直在持續,因為醫療...都?所以您覺得有一直在持續?所以有嘛對不對?這個溝通一直在持續。這過程中都有討論對不對?\n251892\t272818\t那如果都有討論的話我想要請問為什麼還會出現所謂的菸草這個銷售零售業動漲然後菸草製造業減半但是醫院卻要全額調漲荒謬情形然後最後才被批評為健康台灣淪為菸草台灣最後才說要動漲所以我想要請教這個你們真的有評估過這個調漲電價對醫療體系的影響嗎\n275802\t294879\t因為這個基本上是經濟部的權責啦。是啊,但是你應該可以去協調啊。出現,出現像攝、我這樣講,攝、攝醫齁,是比較,是動長的嘛。那醫,呃,醫院沒有,沒有。對,沒有,對,部長我這些都知道,我想要問你的就是說你有沒有主動去協調,你有沒有主動去說哪些\n295660\t297001\t這是一回事喔?但是你有沒有去跟他們的人溝通過嗎?\n311508\t326527\t因為你剛剛有說中間一直有在協調啊你中間都有說嘛你不是說一直在協調好沒關係部長這裡我想要請你就是真的要為就是在衛福部的這個角色裡面也是可以去跟他們協調說哪些東西你認為應該\n328029\t328049\t是﹗\n345978\t368522\t對,所以我現在就是要拜託部長這件事因為我還要跟你反映一件事情就是這波調漲電價的過程我國的製藥產業又被遺漏了那部長我們現在不是都在強調藥品的供應鏈穩定嗎那什麼關鍵時刻的時候就他們就遺漏了其實主要我要講的是製藥業跟這個藥局但因為最終受到影響的也是人民我等一下給你看喔\n369622\t394133\t部長一個國產的健保藥當然不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無\n396594\t419684\t這10%的售價那這10%是電力漲價所致而不是調漲原物料物品在有限時間內要從等於是他們說價格要乘以1.1那就是說藥品要漲價的意思所以我想要跟你說的就是說這是我們接獲的陳情那這是基層藥局也告知就基層的藥商通知基層藥局社區藥局的從10月1號開始要這樣子漲價所以我覺得這是一個連帶性的關係\n424406\t439581\t好所以你們漲價不是所謂說0.03%的CPI衝擊而已其實這個連一般的人民的用藥連社區藥局的藥品都在漲啊而且還墊這個壓力也轉嫁到我們基層藥局所以我要為他們發聲喔他們社區藥局在新冠疫情期間幫我們發口罩對不對\n441883\t451948\t然後用快篩那也是社區的第一道防線我覺得當時幸好有全國的藥師幫忙才可以讓這疫情有得到控制就這兩次調漲電價請問有哪一個衛福部的官員去替他們爭取說免漲或動漲電價\n459332\t483462\t因為相關的醫療醫事院手其實機構也蠻多的所以我也希望說如果各個醫事機構在覺得說這樣的調漲對人民是不好的是那個都不用客氣都可以跟衛福部來反映所以部長我現在就是在跟你反映我每次都稱讚社區藥局有多幫忙當需要他們幫忙的時候就叫他們去發口罩叫他們發快篩\n484162\t499755\t但是現在主責機關在面對這件事的時候卻沉默那其實讓他們都覺得好像是免洗筷被用完就丟但是我知道部長是個溫暖的人我相信你不是想要把它當免洗筷所以我希望您可以回去我剛剛已經講一整個脈絡了你的那個製藥業漲然後那個藥品漲社區藥局也有壓力社區藥局的電價也調漲雖然說它衝擊不見得到\n508963\t510385\t因為他還是有幾個原則 審議會還是有原則如果能夠\n527143\t529745\t沒關係部長這個邏輯你不用跟我講拜託你回去反映你覺得這個邏輯對不對如果你認為你也認同\n549915\t565965\t我是覺得喔,那個相關的單位能夠提出他的一個理由跟訴求我們比較好去反映啦好,你意思是說假設這些藥師協會可以提出這些訴求的話那你不能,你沒辦法主動去幫他們反映嗎?對嘛,那這就好,雙邊進行齁,那這就是你這邊\n573849\t574710\t另外還有一個問題就是你們疾管署死不認錯\n593399\t618871\t部長今年5月2號上任的時候和陳昭芝委員也共同開了一場記者會內容是高等行政法院針對新冠疫苗救濟案件判決衛福部敗訴那敗訴理由中羅列各項缺失相關的審查會議應錄音並且保存但是是沒有但疾管署始終不願意去面對法官的指證去做改進\n619651\t633609\t那這個案子後來家屬跟律師又向賴總統陳情總統府很快的回應說希望機關署保存開會錄音並公佈所有參考的文獻等等那請衛福部著處敬賦並複製總統府但是貴部卻回文說\n640647\t656065\t是否保存開會過程錄音或公布參考文獻片名並無外其審議結果之正確性及釋法性?部長,總統府都下了公文請問部長為什麼不能公開?不能公開理由是什麼?他也要你們公開為什麼要繼續黑箱?\n656505\t658226\t2小時審完90件案件,平均一個案件才80秒。\n682319\t698175\t甚至有多次會議審議下來平均不到80秒一個人命這樣走了然後你們說很專業審議然後健保署的共理會議不僅在網站上有公開所有完整會議記錄連錄音檔都有可是為什麼這個簡單的公開透明疾管署做不到\n699226\t724832\t而且你們所謂的專家喔憑良心講啊之前都有資料啊專家很多根本就沒有參與多久喔所謂專家會議他在裡面待的時間非常的短最後只剩下少部分人品了所以部長我想喔我真的要強烈的指責你們衛福部跟疾管署如果連這麼基本的公開透明都做不到如何取信人民你要想這些受害者當初他等於是冒著他的生命危險去打了這個為了\n726172\t729294\t我們對於民眾因為不管因為什麼原因受傷或死亡我們真的是非常非常的難過跟遺憾\n753371\t755874\t部長我真的不希望在你們在持續的所謂的這種黑箱啊然後就是做一套做一套喔\n774295\t795391\t喔這些家屬很可憐啊我自己也有身邊也有好朋友他是年輕人啊我絕對不會做黑箱任何黑箱作業但是如果他不能公告的委員比如說名單啊或者是他的記錄齁這個部分我們去了解能公開的我們盡量公開而且你們其實那個案件到現在還在上訴還不想要不想要理賠啊\n796616\t824791\t沒有,那也不是不想理會,也不是像報紙講的說我們去請三個律師,而是說我們去委託一個一個事務所,事務所裡面有很多醫生的,沒有,那很多就是事務的嘛所以不是說請很多律師啦部長這件事情不要再辯解,我覺得你們真的回去好好的用心面對,你們這樣子再搞下去,未來也沒有人敢這個參與所謂的工為了大家全社會的公衛,然後還要去打這個疫苗,欸這些人這樣子過世了,就國家\n825831\t833938\t好,我們一定用最專業、最公正的立場來處理這些事情,請放心好,謝謝部長好,謝謝薛委員應該是用\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請我們部長委員長部長好那我拿一下這個好了\n部長好這個為了要健保永續跟解決缺藥跟穩定藥品供應鏈很鼓勵國產保障國人的用藥安全的部分所以今年3月的時候我也曾經提出藥價調整的三原則的決議那也獲得了衛福部的同意那\n建保署的共你會議也在8月15號就已經通過了但是這個案子到現在不僅沒有公告連預告也還沒開始想要請教部長為何遲遲沒有公布是背後有什麼力量干預嗎是總統府還是有什麼國策顧問嗎導致你還不簽\n報告委員據我對這件事情的了解應該都是在做專業方面的程序並沒有我沒有感受到任何其他的壓力是那8月15通過這個共理會議請問什麼時候會公告共理會議以後難道因為這個\n因為在會議的代表其實對本案也沒有反對意見對 那什麼時候遇到那個我們會並同全民健康保險藥品價格調整作業辦法部分修正部分調整的修正那這個部分大概是什麼時候已經199月30號報到衛福部我們將依程序進行法規命令預告公告事宜\n所以部長大概什麼時候?對,大概。可不可以跟我講一個時間點?不是,我說要先預告啊。預告60天,所以我想我們應該很快就會預告。很快大概是什麼時候?可以跟我說嗎?\n社保司有沒有那個依照這個如果已經報到衛福部然後社保司再整理一下因為我是希望一個月之內能夠\n1個月之內會預告?1個月之內會預告那再來部長國內的復康巴士供不應求預約困難那也有許多身心障礙或是有長照需求的長輩跟朋友常常跟我們反映其實我們在地方非常感謝有各種的那種團體會捐贈復康巴士\n但是我發現這扶植車的售價還蠻貴的不過還好有貨物稅的這個條例對於扶植車是有免稅的規定但部長你知道這個免稅規定即將到今年底到期嘛所以我也將提出這個貨物稅條例第12條修正草案延長扶植車的免稅年限\n那我也算過因為這個有三大好處第一個福祉車可能增加讓民間捐贈的這個意願也會好一點再來就是駕駛人增加以及最重要就是我們身心障礙朋友跟陪伴照顧的接送者可以重返這個勞動市長是一舉數得所以我想要請教部長你是否贊同贊同這個贊同延長這個我們現在已經簽上去希望延長五年\n您們簽了嘛,對不對?延長5年。好,那很謝謝部長贊同這個概念喔。所以我也希望說這件事情可以落實。拜託部長來努力一下。\n再來部長4月份調漲電價錢其實我也曾經抨擊過說調漲前沒有完全的評估後來前行政院長陳建仁才說中央政府要仔細盤點然後我們也要求動漲醫院的電價決議最後也才做出地區醫院動漲的決議那請教部長10月這個電價調漲這件事情已經議論了好幾個月那0520上任前衛福部有沒有主動找經濟部或者是經濟部有沒有找衛福部討論調漲電價這件事情\n我想這個溝通一直在持續,因為醫療...都?所以您覺得有一直在持續?所以有嘛對不對?這個溝通一直在持續。這過程中都有討論對不對?\n那如果都有討論的話我想要請問為什麼還會出現所謂的菸草這個銷售零售業動漲然後菸草製造業減半但是醫院卻要全額調漲荒謬情形然後最後才被批評為健康台灣淪為菸草台灣最後才說要動漲所以我想要請教這個你們真的有評估過這個調漲電價對醫療體系的影響嗎\n因為這個基本上是經濟部的權責啦。是啊,但是你應該可以去協調啊。出現,出現像攝、我這樣講,攝、攝醫齁,是比較,是動長的嘛。那醫,呃,醫院沒有,沒有。對,沒有,對,部長我這些都知道,我想要問你的就是說你有沒有主動去協調,你有沒有主動去說哪些\n這是一回事喔?但是你有沒有去跟他們的人溝通過嗎?\n因為你剛剛有說中間一直有在協調啊你中間都有說嘛你不是說一直在協調好沒關係部長這裡我想要請你就是真的要為就是在衛福部的這個角色裡面也是可以去跟他們協調說哪些東西你認為應該\n是﹗\n對,所以我現在就是要拜託部長這件事因為我還要跟你反映一件事情就是這波調漲電價的過程我國的製藥產業又被遺漏了那部長我們現在不是都在強調藥品的供應鏈穩定嗎那什麼關鍵時刻的時候就他們就遺漏了其實主要我要講的是製藥業跟這個藥局但因為最終受到影響的也是人民我等一下給你看喔\n部長一個國產的健保藥當然不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無\n這10%的售價那這10%是電力漲價所致而不是調漲原物料物品在有限時間內要從等於是他們說價格要乘以1.1那就是說藥品要漲價的意思所以我想要跟你說的就是說這是我們接獲的陳情那這是基層藥局也告知就基層的藥商通知基層藥局社區藥局的從10月1號開始要這樣子漲價所以我覺得這是一個連帶性的關係\n好所以你們漲價不是所謂說0.03%的CPI衝擊而已其實這個連一般的人民的用藥連社區藥局的藥品都在漲啊而且還墊這個壓力也轉嫁到我們基層藥局所以我要為他們發聲喔他們社區藥局在新冠疫情期間幫我們發口罩對不對\n然後用快篩那也是社區的第一道防線我覺得當時幸好有全國的藥師幫忙才可以讓這疫情有得到控制就這兩次調漲電價請問有哪一個衛福部的官員去替他們爭取說免漲或動漲電價\n因為相關的醫療醫事院手其實機構也蠻多的所以我也希望說如果各個醫事機構在覺得說這樣的調漲對人民是不好的是那個都不用客氣都可以跟衛福部來反映所以部長我現在就是在跟你反映我每次都稱讚社區藥局有多幫忙當需要他們幫忙的時候就叫他們去發口罩叫他們發快篩\n但是現在主責機關在面對這件事的時候卻沉默那其實讓他們都覺得好像是免洗筷被用完就丟但是我知道部長是個溫暖的人我相信你不是想要把它當免洗筷所以我希望您可以回去我剛剛已經講一整個脈絡了你的那個製藥業漲然後那個藥品漲社區藥局也有壓力社區藥局的電價也調漲雖然說它衝擊不見得到\n因為他還是有幾個原則 審議會還是有原則如果能夠\n沒關係部長這個邏輯你不用跟我講拜託你回去反映你覺得這個邏輯對不對如果你認為你也認同\n我是覺得喔,那個相關的單位能夠提出他的一個理由跟訴求我們比較好去反映啦好,你意思是說假設這些藥師協會可以提出這些訴求的話那你不能,你沒辦法主動去幫他們反映嗎?對嘛,那這就好,雙邊進行齁,那這就是你這邊\n另外還有一個問題就是你們疾管署死不認錯\n部長今年5月2號上任的時候和陳昭芝委員也共同開了一場記者會內容是高等行政法院針對新冠疫苗救濟案件判決衛福部敗訴那敗訴理由中羅列各項缺失相關的審查會議應錄音並且保存但是是沒有但疾管署始終不願意去面對法官的指證去做改進\n那這個案子後來家屬跟律師又向賴總統陳情總統府很快的回應說希望機關署保存開會錄音並公佈所有參考的文獻等等那請衛福部著處敬賦並複製總統府但是貴部卻回文說\n是否保存開會過程錄音或公布參考文獻片名並無外其審議結果之正確性及釋法性?部長,總統府都下了公文請問部長為什麼不能公開?不能公開理由是什麼?他也要你們公開為什麼要繼續黑箱?\n2小時審完90件案件,平均一個案件才80秒。\n甚至有多次會議審議下來平均不到80秒一個人命這樣走了然後你們說很專業審議然後健保署的共理會議不僅在網站上有公開所有完整會議記錄連錄音檔都有可是為什麼這個簡單的公開透明疾管署做不到\n而且你們所謂的專家喔憑良心講啊之前都有資料啊專家很多根本就沒有參與多久喔所謂專家會議他在裡面待的時間非常的短最後只剩下少部分人品了所以部長我想喔我真的要強烈的指責你們衛福部跟疾管署如果連這麼基本的公開透明都做不到如何取信人民你要想這些受害者當初他等於是冒著他的生命危險去打了這個為了\n我們對於民眾因為不管因為什麼原因受傷或死亡我們真的是非常非常的難過跟遺憾\n部長我真的不希望在你們在持續的所謂的這種黑箱啊然後就是做一套做一套喔\n喔這些家屬很可憐啊我自己也有身邊也有好朋友他是年輕人啊我絕對不會做黑箱任何黑箱作業但是如果他不能公告的委員比如說名單啊或者是他的記錄齁這個部分我們去了解能公開的我們盡量公開而且你們其實那個案件到現在還在上訴還不想要不想要理賠啊\n沒有,那也不是不想理會,也不是像報紙講的說我們去請三個律師,而是說我們去委託一個一個事務所,事務所裡面有很多醫生的,沒有,那很多就是事務的嘛所以不是說請很多律師啦部長這件事情不要再辯解,我覺得你們真的回去好好的用心面對,你們這樣子再搞下去,未來也沒有人敢這個參與所謂的工為了大家全社會的公衛,然後還要去打這個疫苗,欸這些人這樣子過世了,就國家\n好,我們一定用最專業、最公正的立場來處理這些事情,請放心好,謝謝部長好,謝謝薛委員應該是用\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.481 --> 00:19.948\n謝謝主席有請我們部長委員長部長好那我拿一下這個好了\n\n00:22.574 --> 00:37.428\n部長好這個為了要健保永續跟解決缺藥跟穩定藥品供應鏈很鼓勵國產保障國人的用藥安全的部分所以今年3月的時候我也曾經提出藥價調整的三原則的決議那也獲得了衛福部的同意那\n\n00:38.169 --> 00:52.097\n建保署的共你會議也在8月15號就已經通過了但是這個案子到現在不僅沒有公告連預告也還沒開始想要請教部長為何遲遲沒有公布是背後有什麼力量干預嗎是總統府還是有什麼國策顧問嗎導致你還不簽\n\n00:54.878 --> 01:08.875\n報告委員據我對這件事情的了解應該都是在做專業方面的程序並沒有我沒有感受到任何其他的壓力是那8月15通過這個共理會議請問什麼時候會公告共理會議以後難道因為這個\n\n01:10.857 --> 01:36.553\n因為在會議的代表其實對本案也沒有反對意見對那什麼時候遇到那個我們會並同全民健康保險藥品價格調整作業辦法部分修正部分調整的修正那這個部分大概是什麼時候已經199月30號報到衛福部我們將依程序進行法規命令預告公告事宜\n\n01:37.594 --> 01:57.013\n所以部長大概什麼時候?對,大概。可不可以跟我講一個時間點?不是,我說要先預告啊。預告60天,所以我想我們應該很快就會預告。很快大概是什麼時候?可以跟我說嗎?\n\n02:02.322 --> 02:14.568\n社保司有沒有那個依照這個如果已經報到衛福部然後社保司再整理一下因為我是希望一個月之內能夠\n\n02:15.990 --> 02:32.872\n1個月之內會預告?1個月之內會預告那再來部長國內的復康巴士供不應求預約困難那也有許多身心障礙或是有長照需求的長輩跟朋友常常跟我們反映其實我們在地方非常感謝有各種的那種團體會捐贈復康巴士\n\n02:33.593 --> 02:51.770\n但是我發現這扶植車的售價還蠻貴的不過還好有貨物稅的這個條例對於扶植車是有免稅的規定但部長你知道這個免稅規定即將到今年底到期嘛所以我也將提出這個貨物稅條例第12條修正草案延長扶植車的免稅年限\n\n02:52.350 --> 03:09.940\n那我也算過因為這個有三大好處第一個福祉車可能增加讓民間捐贈的這個意願也會好一點再來就是駕駛人增加以及最重要就是我們身心障礙朋友跟陪伴照顧的接送者可以重返這個勞動市長是一舉數得所以我想要請教部長你是否贊同贊同這個贊同延長這個我們現在已經簽上去希望延長五年\n\n03:17.822 --> 03:26.814\n您們簽了嘛,對不對?延長5年。好,那很謝謝部長贊同這個概念喔。所以我也希望說這件事情可以落實。拜託部長來努力一下。\n\n03:28.240 --> 03:56.942\n再來部長4月份調漲電價錢其實我也曾經抨擊過說調漲前沒有完全的評估後來前行政院長陳建仁才說中央政府要仔細盤點然後我們也要求動漲醫院的電價決議最後也才做出地區醫院動漲的決議那請教部長10月這個電價調漲這件事情已經議論了好幾個月那0520上任前衛福部有沒有主動找經濟部或者是經濟部有沒有找衛福部討論調漲電價這件事情\n\n03:59.625 --> 04:08.402\n我想這個溝通一直在持續,因為醫療...都?所以您覺得有一直在持續?所以有嘛對不對?這個溝通一直在持續。這過程中都有討論對不對?\n\n04:11.892 --> 04:32.818\n那如果都有討論的話我想要請問為什麼還會出現所謂的菸草這個銷售零售業動漲然後菸草製造業減半但是醫院卻要全額調漲荒謬情形然後最後才被批評為健康台灣淪為菸草台灣最後才說要動漲所以我想要請教這個你們真的有評估過這個調漲電價對醫療體系的影響嗎\n\n04:35.802 --> 04:54.879\n因為這個基本上是經濟部的權責啦。是啊,但是你應該可以去協調啊。出現,出現像攝、我這樣講,攝、攝醫齁,是比較,是動長的嘛。那醫,呃,醫院沒有,沒有。對,沒有,對,部長我這些都知道,我想要問你的就是說你有沒有主動去協調,你有沒有主動去說哪些\n\n04:55.660 --> 04:57.001\n這是一回事喔?但是你有沒有去跟他們的人溝通過嗎?\n\n05:11.508 --> 05:26.527\n因為你剛剛有說中間一直有在協調啊你中間都有說嘛你不是說一直在協調好沒關係部長這裡我想要請你就是真的要為就是在衛福部的這個角色裡面也是可以去跟他們協調說哪些東西你認為應該\n\n05:28.029 --> 05:28.049\n是﹗\n\n05:45.978 --> 06:08.522\n對,所以我現在就是要拜託部長這件事因為我還要跟你反映一件事情就是這波調漲電價的過程我國的製藥產業又被遺漏了那部長我們現在不是都在強調藥品的供應鏈穩定嗎那什麼關鍵時刻的時候就他們就遺漏了其實主要我要講的是製藥業跟這個藥局但因為最終受到影響的也是人民我等一下給你看喔\n\n06:09.622 --> 06:34.133\n部長一個國產的健保藥當然不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無\n\n06:36.594 --> 06:59.684\n這10%的售價那這10%是電力漲價所致而不是調漲原物料物品在有限時間內要從等於是他們說價格要乘以1.1那就是說藥品要漲價的意思所以我想要跟你說的就是說這是我們接獲的陳情那這是基層藥局也告知就基層的藥商通知基層藥局社區藥局的從10月1號開始要這樣子漲價所以我覺得這是一個連帶性的關係\n\n07:04.406 --> 07:19.581\n好所以你們漲價不是所謂說0.03%的CPI衝擊而已其實這個連一般的人民的用藥連社區藥局的藥品都在漲啊而且還墊這個壓力也轉嫁到我們基層藥局所以我要為他們發聲喔他們社區藥局在新冠疫情期間幫我們發口罩對不對\n\n07:21.883 --> 07:31.948\n然後用快篩那也是社區的第一道防線我覺得當時幸好有全國的藥師幫忙才可以讓這疫情有得到控制就這兩次調漲電價請問有哪一個衛福部的官員去替他們爭取說免漲或動漲電價\n\n07:39.332 --> 08:03.462\n因為相關的醫療醫事院手其實機構也蠻多的所以我也希望說如果各個醫事機構在覺得說這樣的調漲對人民是不好的是那個都不用客氣都可以跟衛福部來反映所以部長我現在就是在跟你反映我每次都稱讚社區藥局有多幫忙當需要他們幫忙的時候就叫他們去發口罩叫他們發快篩\n\n08:04.162 --> 08:19.755\n但是現在主責機關在面對這件事的時候卻沉默那其實讓他們都覺得好像是免洗筷被用完就丟但是我知道部長是個溫暖的人我相信你不是想要把它當免洗筷所以我希望您可以回去我剛剛已經講一整個脈絡了你的那個製藥業漲然後那個藥品漲社區藥局也有壓力社區藥局的電價也調漲雖然說它衝擊不見得到\n\n08:28.963 --> 08:30.385\n因為他還是有幾個原則審議會還是有原則如果能夠\n\n08:47.143 --> 08:49.745\n沒關係部長這個邏輯你不用跟我講拜託你回去反映你覺得這個邏輯對不對如果你認為你也認同\n\n09:09.915 --> 09:25.965\n我是覺得喔,那個相關的單位能夠提出他的一個理由跟訴求我們比較好去反映啦好,你意思是說假設這些藥師協會可以提出這些訴求的話那你不能,你沒辦法主動去幫他們反映嗎?對嘛,那這就好,雙邊進行齁,那這就是你這邊\n\n09:33.849 --> 09:34.710\n另外還有一個問題就是你們疾管署死不認錯\n\n09:53.399 --> 10:18.871\n部長今年5月2號上任的時候和陳昭芝委員也共同開了一場記者會內容是高等行政法院針對新冠疫苗救濟案件判決衛福部敗訴那敗訴理由中羅列各項缺失相關的審查會議應錄音並且保存但是是沒有但疾管署始終不願意去面對法官的指證去做改進\n\n10:19.651 --> 10:33.609\n那這個案子後來家屬跟律師又向賴總統陳情總統府很快的回應說希望機關署保存開會錄音並公佈所有參考的文獻等等那請衛福部著處敬賦並複製總統府但是貴部卻回文說\n\n10:40.647 --> 10:56.065\n是否保存開會過程錄音或公布參考文獻片名並無外其審議結果之正確性及釋法性?部長,總統府都下了公文請問部長為什麼不能公開?不能公開理由是什麼?他也要你們公開為什麼要繼續黑箱?\n\n10:56.505 --> 10:58.226\n2小時審完90件案件,平均一個案件才80秒。\n\n11:22.319 --> 11:38.175\n甚至有多次會議審議下來平均不到80秒一個人命這樣走了然後你們說很專業審議然後健保署的共理會議不僅在網站上有公開所有完整會議記錄連錄音檔都有可是為什麼這個簡單的公開透明疾管署做不到\n\n11:39.226 --> 12:04.832\n而且你們所謂的專家喔憑良心講啊之前都有資料啊專家很多根本就沒有參與多久喔所謂專家會議他在裡面待的時間非常的短最後只剩下少部分人品了所以部長我想喔我真的要強烈的指責你們衛福部跟疾管署如果連這麼基本的公開透明都做不到如何取信人民你要想這些受害者當初他等於是冒著他的生命危險去打了這個為了\n\n12:06.172 --> 12:09.294\n我們對於民眾因為不管因為什麼原因受傷或死亡我們真的是非常非常的難過跟遺憾\n\n12:33.371 --> 12:35.874\n部長我真的不希望在你們在持續的所謂的這種黑箱啊然後就是做一套做一套喔\n\n12:54.295 --> 13:15.391\n喔這些家屬很可憐啊我自己也有身邊也有好朋友他是年輕人啊我絕對不會做黑箱任何黑箱作業但是如果他不能公告的委員比如說名單啊或者是他的記錄齁這個部分我們去了解能公開的我們盡量公開而且你們其實那個案件到現在還在上訴還不想要不想要理賠啊\n\n13:16.616 --> 13:44.791\n沒有,那也不是不想理會,也不是像報紙講的說我們去請三個律師,而是說我們去委託一個一個事務所,事務所裡面有很多醫生的,沒有,那很多就是事務的嘛所以不是說請很多律師啦部長這件事情不要再辯解,我覺得你們真的回去好好的用心面對,你們這樣子再搞下去,未來也沒有人敢這個參與所謂的工為了大家全社會的公衛,然後還要去打這個疫苗,欸這些人這樣子過世了,就國家\n\n13:45.831 --> 13:53.938\n好,我們一定用最專業、最公正的立場來處理這些事情,請放心好,謝謝部長好,謝謝薛委員應該是用\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.481,"end":19.948,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們部長委員長部長好那我拿一下這個好了"},{"start":22.574,"end":37.428,"text":"部長好這個為了要健保永續跟解決缺藥跟穩定藥品供應鏈很鼓勵國產保障國人的用藥安全的部分所以今年3月的時候我也曾經提出藥價調整的三原則的決議那也獲得了衛福部的同意那"},{"start":38.169,"end":52.097,"text":"建保署的共你會議也在8月15號就已經通過了但是這個案子到現在不僅沒有公告連預告也還沒開始想要請教部長為何遲遲沒有公布是背後有什麼力量干預嗎是總統府還是有什麼國策顧問嗎導致你還不簽"},{"start":54.878,"end":68.875,"text":"報告委員據我對這件事情的了解應該都是在做專業方面的程序並沒有我沒有感受到任何其他的壓力是那8月15通過這個共理會議請問什麼時候會公告共理會議以後難道因為這個"},{"start":70.857,"end":96.553,"text":"因為在會議的代表其實對本案也沒有反對意見對 那什麼時候遇到那個我們會並同全民健康保險藥品價格調整作業辦法部分修正部分調整的修正那這個部分大概是什麼時候已經199月30號報到衛福部我們將依程序進行法規命令預告公告事宜"},{"start":97.594,"end":117.013,"text":"所以部長大概什麼時候?對,大概。可不可以跟我講一個時間點?不是,我說要先預告啊。預告60天,所以我想我們應該很快就會預告。很快大概是什麼時候?可以跟我說嗎?"},{"start":122.322,"end":134.568,"text":"社保司有沒有那個依照這個如果已經報到衛福部然後社保司再整理一下因為我是希望一個月之內能夠"},{"start":135.99,"end":152.872,"text":"1個月之內會預告?1個月之內會預告那再來部長國內的復康巴士供不應求預約困難那也有許多身心障礙或是有長照需求的長輩跟朋友常常跟我們反映其實我們在地方非常感謝有各種的那種團體會捐贈復康巴士"},{"start":153.593,"end":171.77,"text":"但是我發現這扶植車的售價還蠻貴的不過還好有貨物稅的這個條例對於扶植車是有免稅的規定但部長你知道這個免稅規定即將到今年底到期嘛所以我也將提出這個貨物稅條例第12條修正草案延長扶植車的免稅年限"},{"start":172.35,"end":189.94,"text":"那我也算過因為這個有三大好處第一個福祉車可能增加讓民間捐贈的這個意願也會好一點再來就是駕駛人增加以及最重要就是我們身心障礙朋友跟陪伴照顧的接送者可以重返這個勞動市長是一舉數得所以我想要請教部長你是否贊同贊同這個贊同延長這個我們現在已經簽上去希望延長五年"},{"start":197.822,"end":206.814,"text":"您們簽了嘛,對不對?延長5年。好,那很謝謝部長贊同這個概念喔。所以我也希望說這件事情可以落實。拜託部長來努力一下。"},{"start":208.24,"end":236.942,"text":"再來部長4月份調漲電價錢其實我也曾經抨擊過說調漲前沒有完全的評估後來前行政院長陳建仁才說中央政府要仔細盤點然後我們也要求動漲醫院的電價決議最後也才做出地區醫院動漲的決議那請教部長10月這個電價調漲這件事情已經議論了好幾個月那0520上任前衛福部有沒有主動找經濟部或者是經濟部有沒有找衛福部討論調漲電價這件事情"},{"start":239.625,"end":248.402,"text":"我想這個溝通一直在持續,因為醫療...都?所以您覺得有一直在持續?所以有嘛對不對?這個溝通一直在持續。這過程中都有討論對不對?"},{"start":251.892,"end":272.818,"text":"那如果都有討論的話我想要請問為什麼還會出現所謂的菸草這個銷售零售業動漲然後菸草製造業減半但是醫院卻要全額調漲荒謬情形然後最後才被批評為健康台灣淪為菸草台灣最後才說要動漲所以我想要請教這個你們真的有評估過這個調漲電價對醫療體系的影響嗎"},{"start":275.802,"end":294.879,"text":"因為這個基本上是經濟部的權責啦。是啊,但是你應該可以去協調啊。出現,出現像攝、我這樣講,攝、攝醫齁,是比較,是動長的嘛。那醫,呃,醫院沒有,沒有。對,沒有,對,部長我這些都知道,我想要問你的就是說你有沒有主動去協調,你有沒有主動去說哪些"},{"start":295.66,"end":297.001,"text":"這是一回事喔?但是你有沒有去跟他們的人溝通過嗎?"},{"start":311.508,"end":326.527,"text":"因為你剛剛有說中間一直有在協調啊你中間都有說嘛你不是說一直在協調好沒關係部長這裡我想要請你就是真的要為就是在衛福部的這個角色裡面也是可以去跟他們協調說哪些東西你認為應該"},{"start":328.029,"end":328.049,"text":"是﹗"},{"start":345.978,"end":368.522,"text":"對,所以我現在就是要拜託部長這件事因為我還要跟你反映一件事情就是這波調漲電價的過程我國的製藥產業又被遺漏了那部長我們現在不是都在強調藥品的供應鏈穩定嗎那什麼關鍵時刻的時候就他們就遺漏了其實主要我要講的是製藥業跟這個藥局但因為最終受到影響的也是人民我等一下給你看喔"},{"start":369.622,"end":394.133,"text":"部長一個國產的健保藥當然不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不不無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無無"},{"start":396.594,"end":419.684,"text":"這10%的售價那這10%是電力漲價所致而不是調漲原物料物品在有限時間內要從等於是他們說價格要乘以1.1那就是說藥品要漲價的意思所以我想要跟你說的就是說這是我們接獲的陳情那這是基層藥局也告知就基層的藥商通知基層藥局社區藥局的從10月1號開始要這樣子漲價所以我覺得這是一個連帶性的關係"},{"start":424.406,"end":439.581,"text":"好所以你們漲價不是所謂說0.03%的CPI衝擊而已其實這個連一般的人民的用藥連社區藥局的藥品都在漲啊而且還墊這個壓力也轉嫁到我們基層藥局所以我要為他們發聲喔他們社區藥局在新冠疫情期間幫我們發口罩對不對"},{"start":441.883,"end":451.948,"text":"然後用快篩那也是社區的第一道防線我覺得當時幸好有全國的藥師幫忙才可以讓這疫情有得到控制就這兩次調漲電價請問有哪一個衛福部的官員去替他們爭取說免漲或動漲電價"},{"start":459.332,"end":483.462,"text":"因為相關的醫療醫事院手其實機構也蠻多的所以我也希望說如果各個醫事機構在覺得說這樣的調漲對人民是不好的是那個都不用客氣都可以跟衛福部來反映所以部長我現在就是在跟你反映我每次都稱讚社區藥局有多幫忙當需要他們幫忙的時候就叫他們去發口罩叫他們發快篩"},{"start":484.162,"end":499.755,"text":"但是現在主責機關在面對這件事的時候卻沉默那其實讓他們都覺得好像是免洗筷被用完就丟但是我知道部長是個溫暖的人我相信你不是想要把它當免洗筷所以我希望您可以回去我剛剛已經講一整個脈絡了你的那個製藥業漲然後那個藥品漲社區藥局也有壓力社區藥局的電價也調漲雖然說它衝擊不見得到"},{"start":508.963,"end":510.385,"text":"因為他還是有幾個原則 審議會還是有原則如果能夠"},{"start":527.143,"end":529.745,"text":"沒關係部長這個邏輯你不用跟我講拜託你回去反映你覺得這個邏輯對不對如果你認為你也認同"},{"start":549.915,"end":565.965,"text":"我是覺得喔,那個相關的單位能夠提出他的一個理由跟訴求我們比較好去反映啦好,你意思是說假設這些藥師協會可以提出這些訴求的話那你不能,你沒辦法主動去幫他們反映嗎?對嘛,那這就好,雙邊進行齁,那這就是你這邊"},{"start":573.849,"end":574.71,"text":"另外還有一個問題就是你們疾管署死不認錯"},{"start":593.399,"end":618.871,"text":"部長今年5月2號上任的時候和陳昭芝委員也共同開了一場記者會內容是高等行政法院針對新冠疫苗救濟案件判決衛福部敗訴那敗訴理由中羅列各項缺失相關的審查會議應錄音並且保存但是是沒有但疾管署始終不願意去面對法官的指證去做改進"},{"start":619.651,"end":633.609,"text":"那這個案子後來家屬跟律師又向賴總統陳情總統府很快的回應說希望機關署保存開會錄音並公佈所有參考的文獻等等那請衛福部著處敬賦並複製總統府但是貴部卻回文說"},{"start":640.647,"end":656.065,"text":"是否保存開會過程錄音或公布參考文獻片名並無外其審議結果之正確性及釋法性?部長,總統府都下了公文請問部長為什麼不能公開?不能公開理由是什麼?他也要你們公開為什麼要繼續黑箱?"},{"start":656.505,"end":658.226,"text":"2小時審完90件案件,平均一個案件才80秒。"},{"start":682.319,"end":698.175,"text":"甚至有多次會議審議下來平均不到80秒一個人命這樣走了然後你們說很專業審議然後健保署的共理會議不僅在網站上有公開所有完整會議記錄連錄音檔都有可是為什麼這個簡單的公開透明疾管署做不到"},{"start":699.226,"end":724.832,"text":"而且你們所謂的專家喔憑良心講啊之前都有資料啊專家很多根本就沒有參與多久喔所謂專家會議他在裡面待的時間非常的短最後只剩下少部分人品了所以部長我想喔我真的要強烈的指責你們衛福部跟疾管署如果連這麼基本的公開透明都做不到如何取信人民你要想這些受害者當初他等於是冒著他的生命危險去打了這個為了"},{"start":726.172,"end":729.294,"text":"我們對於民眾因為不管因為什麼原因受傷或死亡我們真的是非常非常的難過跟遺憾"},{"start":753.371,"end":755.874,"text":"部長我真的不希望在你們在持續的所謂的這種黑箱啊然後就是做一套做一套喔"},{"start":774.295,"end":795.391,"text":"喔這些家屬很可憐啊我自己也有身邊也有好朋友他是年輕人啊我絕對不會做黑箱任何黑箱作業但是如果他不能公告的委員比如說名單啊或者是他的記錄齁這個部分我們去了解能公開的我們盡量公開而且你們其實那個案件到現在還在上訴還不想要不想要理賠啊"},{"start":796.616,"end":824.791,"text":"沒有,那也不是不想理會,也不是像報紙講的說我們去請三個律師,而是說我們去委託一個一個事務所,事務所裡面有很多醫生的,沒有,那很多就是事務的嘛所以不是說請很多律師啦部長這件事情不要再辯解,我覺得你們真的回去好好的用心面對,你們這樣子再搞下去,未來也沒有人敢這個參與所謂的工為了大家全社會的公衛,然後還要去打這個疫苗,欸這些人這樣子過世了,就國家"},{"start":825.831,"end":833.938,"text":"好,我們一定用最專業、最公正的立場來處理這些事情,請放心好,謝謝部長好,謝謝薛委員應該是用"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:51:44 - 10:05:40","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155280,"gazette":{"lineno":224,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（9時51分）謝謝主席。有請我們部長。"],["主席：部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員早。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好。為了要健保永續、解決缺藥跟穩定藥品供應鏈，並鼓勵國產、保障國人的用藥安全的部分，所以今年3月的時候，我也曾經提出藥價調整三原則的決議，也獲得了衛福部的同意。健保署的共擬會議也在8月15日就已經通過了，但是這個案子到現在不僅沒有公告，連預告也還沒開始，想要請教部長為何遲遲沒有公布，是背後有什麼力量干預嗎？是總統府，還是有什麼國策顧問，導致你還不簽？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，據我對這件事情的了解，應該都是在走專業方面的程序，我沒有感受到任何其他的壓力。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，8月15日通過這個共擬會議，請問什麼時候會預告？"],["邱部長泰源：共擬會議以後，因為在會議的代表其實對本案也沒有反對意見……"],["廖委員偉翔：對，那什麼時候預告？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會併同全民健康保險藥品價格調整作業辦法部分條文的修正，這個部分……"],["廖委員偉翔：大概是什麼時候？"],["邱部長泰源：9月30日已經報到衛福部，我們將依程序進行法規命令預告、公告事宜。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長，大概是什麼時候？可不可以跟我講一個時間點？"],["邱部長泰源：預告60天，所以我們應該很快就會預告……"],["廖委員偉翔：很快？大概是什麼時候？可以跟我說嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：依照程序，如果已經報到衛福部，社保司再整理一下，我是希望一個月之內能夠預告……"],["廖委員偉翔：一個月之內會預告？"],["邱部長泰源：預告。"],["廖委員偉翔：一個月之內會預告？好。再來，國內的復康巴士供不應求預約困難，也有許多身心障礙或是有長照需求的長輩跟朋友常常跟我們反映，其實我們在地方非常感謝有各種團體會捐贈復康巴士，但是我發現這福祉車的售價還蠻貴的，不過還好有貨物稅條例對於福祉車是有免稅的規定，但是部長知道免稅規定即將在今年底到期嗎？所以我也將提出貨物稅條例第十二條修正草案，延長福祉車的免稅年限。我算過這有三大好處，第一個，福祉車可能增加，讓民間捐贈的意願也會好一點；再來就是駕駛人增加；以及最重要就是我們身心障礙朋友跟陪伴照顧的接送者可以重返勞動市場，是一舉數得。所以我想要請教部長，你是否也贊同延長？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在已經簽上去，希望延長5年。"],["廖委員偉翔：你們已經簽了嗎？延長5年？好，很謝謝部長也贊同這個概念，我也希望這件事情可以落實，拜託部長努力一下。","再來，4月份調漲電價前，其實我也曾經抨擊過調整前沒有完全的評估，後來前行政院長陳建仁才說中央政府還要仔細盤點，我們也要求凍漲醫院的電價決議，最後也才做出地區醫院凍漲的決議。請教部長，10月電價調漲這件事情已經議論了好幾個月，你520上任前，衛福部有沒有主動找經濟部，或者經濟部有沒有找衛福部討論調漲電價這件事情？"],["邱部長泰源：我想溝通一直在持續進行，因為醫療，尤其是……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以您覺得有一直在持續？所以有，對不對？這中間都有討論？"],["邱部長泰源：這都一直在持續。"],["廖委員偉翔：過程中都有討論，對不對？如果都有討論，我想要請問為什麼還會出現所謂的菸草銷售零售業凍漲、菸草製造業減半，但是醫院卻要全額調漲的荒謬情形，最後被批評為「健康臺灣淪為菸草臺灣」，才說要凍漲？所以我想要請教，你們真的有評估過調漲電價對醫療體系的影響嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：因為這個基本上是經濟部的權責……。"],["廖委員偉翔：是啊！但是你應該可以去協調。"],["邱部長泰源：就是會出現像獸醫是凍漲的嘛！那麼醫院沒有……"],["廖委員偉翔：對，部長，這些我都知道，我想要問你的是，你有沒有主動去協調？你有沒有主動去說哪些不應該這樣做，代表衛福部的立場去幫這些不管是醫療體系或者是醫療的民眾？"],["邱部長泰源：這是一個審議會，這個審議會大概沒有衛福部的代表在裡面。"],["廖委員偉翔：這是一回事，但是你有沒有去跟他們的人溝通過？因為你剛剛有說中間一直有在協調，你有說嘛！你不是說一直在協調？好，沒關係。我想請部長真的要在衛福部的這個角色裡面，可以去跟他們協調你認為哪些東西應該要凍漲，或者是要減免，我是想要跟你溝通這個部分，因為部長……"],["邱部長泰源：這一、兩年來，只要有電價凍漲的時候，站在醫療院所的運作，我們一定用各種適當的方法去反映。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以我現在就是要拜託部長這件事，因為我還要跟你反映一件事情，就是這波調漲電價的過程，我國的製藥產業又被遺漏了。部長，我們現在不是都在強調藥品的供應鏈穩定，怎麼關鍵時刻的時候，他們就遺漏了？其實我主要講的是製藥業跟藥局，但因為最終受到影響的也是人民。部長，一個國產的健保藥當然不僅沒辦法調漲，而且每年4月還要被砍價，對吧？所以當成本過高，藥商可能會被迫停止生產，產生缺藥的問題，這是一點。當然另外一點也有可能怕會轉嫁到其他非健保的藥品，對吧？另外，部長，這裡是我收到的陳情，你看這封信裡說：所有同仁早安！某某製藥從10月1號起調漲旗下所有的產品10%售價，這10%是電力漲價所致，而不是調漲原物料，務必在有限時間內……等於價格要乘以1.1，也就是藥品要漲價的意思。","這是我們接獲的陳情，是藥商通知基層藥局、社區藥局，從10月1號開始要這樣子漲價，所以我覺得這是一個連帶性的關係，你們漲價不是所謂0.03%的CPI衝擊而已，其實連一般人民的用藥、連社區藥局的藥品都在漲。這個電價壓力也轉嫁到我們基層藥局，所以我要為他們發聲，社區藥局在新冠疫情期間幫我們發口罩，然後用快篩，也是社區的第一道防線，當時幸好有全國的藥師幫忙，才可以讓疫情得到控制。結果這兩次調漲電價，請問有哪一個衛福部的官員去替他們爭取免漲或凍漲電價？"],["邱部長泰源：因為相關的醫事院所，其實機構也蠻多的，所以我也希望如果各個醫事機構覺得這樣的調漲對人民是不好的，不用客氣，都可以跟衛福部來反映。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長，我現在就是在跟你反映，我們每次都稱讚社區藥局有多幫忙，當需要他們幫忙的時候，就叫他們去發口罩、叫他們發快篩，可是現在主責機關在面對這件事的時候，卻沉默，其實讓他們都覺得好像是免洗筷，被用完就丟。但是我知道部長是個溫暖的人，我相信你不是想要把他們當免洗筷，我剛剛已經講一整個脈絡了，你的製藥業漲、藥品漲，社區藥局也有壓力，社區藥局的電價也調漲，雖然它衝擊不見得到最大，可是它最終可能都反映到人民的身上、用藥人的身上，因為10月16號新電價才會上路，這段時間部長是不是可以立即去跟經濟部反映？"],["邱部長泰源：可以，因為它還是有幾個原則，審議會還是有原則，如果相關的單位，比如社區藥局這一邊如果覺得……"],["廖委員偉翔：當初菸草那個事情一出來，新聞一燒，馬上就公布了。"],["邱部長泰源：因為它是按照……我舉個例子，為什麼獸醫會在凍漲範圍，因為他們覺得農漁牧業就是在凍漲的範圍，就把它順便……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，沒關係，這個邏輯你不用跟我講，拜託你回去反映，你覺得這個邏輯對不對？如果你也認同，可以回去反映一下。"],["邱部長泰源：我是覺得如果相關的單位能夠提出它的理由跟訴求，我們比較好去反映，因為……"],["廖委員偉翔：你的意思是，假設藥師協會可以提出這些訴求的話……"],["邱部長泰源：他們可以提一個說明為什麼需要……"],["廖委員偉翔：你沒辦法主動去幫他們反映？"],["邱部長泰源：我當然可以主動……"],["廖委員偉翔：對嘛！這樣就好……"],["邱部長泰源：但我希望……"],["廖委員偉翔：雙邊進行，但這就是你這邊……"],["邱部長泰源：理由更充分嘛！"],["廖委員偉翔：對，因為10月16號也很快了，所以要拜託你趕快回去反映，我想這個最終影響到的是一般用藥人。"],["邱部長泰源：我們會一邊反映，一邊也給我們相關的資料。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，藥品乘以1.1也是蠻可怕的，每個漲10%，其實一般用藥人也是很有感。"],["邱部長泰源：當然、當然。"],["廖委員偉翔：另外還有一個問題，就是疾管署死不認錯，部長，今年5月2號上任的時候，和陳昭姿委員也共同開了一場記者會，內容是高等行政法院針對新冠疫苗救濟案件判決衛福部敗訴，敗訴理由中羅列各項缺失，相關審查會議應錄音並且保存，但是沒有，疾管署始終不願意去面對法官的指證去做改進。這個案子後來家屬跟律師又向賴總統陳情，總統府很快地回應說，希望疾管署保存開會錄音並公布所有參考的文獻等等，請衛福部卓處逕復，並副知總統府。但是貴部卻回文說，是否保存開會過程錄音或公布參考文獻篇名並無礙其審議結果之正確性及適法性。部長，總統府都下了公文，請問部長為什麼不能公開？不能公開的理由是什麼？他也要你們公開，為什麼要繼續黑箱？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，總統府是要我們去關心這件事情、辦理這件事情……"],["廖委員偉翔：對，但是你們還是持續地……"],["邱部長泰源：衛福部疾管署也有去檢討整個過程，這個部分都是專家，而且這個專家真的都是很嚴謹在審議。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個專家嚴謹很好笑喔！部長，你確定要很嚴謹喔！2個小時審完90件案件，平均1個案件才80秒，甚至有多次會議審議下來，平均不到80秒。1個人命就這樣走了，然後你們說很專業審議！健保署的共擬會議不僅在網站上有公開所有的完整會議紀錄，連錄音檔都有，可是為什麼這麼簡單的公開透明，疾管署做不到？而且你們所謂的專家，憑良心講，之前都有資料，專家很多根本就沒有參與多久，所謂專家會議，他在裡面待的時間非常地短，最後只剩下少部分人評。部長，我真的要強烈指責衛福部跟疾管署，如果連這麼基本的公開透明都做不到，要如何取信人民？你要想這些受害者，當初他等於是冒著他的生命危險，為了整個國家、全社會的公衛，去打了這個疫苗，沒想到他卻受害過世了，結果過世之後，你們好像為了要省錢還是怕錢不夠還是怎麼樣的，全部都給他亂評一通，這官司到現在還在打啊！部長，請你回去好好關切這件事情，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們對於民眾不管因為什麼原因受傷或死亡，我們真的是非常非常地難過跟遺憾，但是……"],["廖委員偉翔：不是，部長，你不能打太極啊！你要回去好好審視這件事情，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：有關這個事件，我想我們把整個整理好再提一個報告給委員，好不好？把你所關切的……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我真的不希望你們在持續所謂的這種黑箱……"],["邱部長泰源：不會、不會。"],["廖委員偉翔：就是說一套，做一套，這些家屬很可憐，我自己身邊也有好朋友，他是年輕人……"],["邱部長泰源：我的立場絕對不會做任何黑箱作業，但是如果有不能公告的，譬如委員名單或者是他的紀錄，這個部分我們去了解，能公開的我們儘量公開。"],["廖委員偉翔：其實那個案件你們到現在還在上訴，還不想要理賠啊！"],["邱部長泰源：沒有，不是不想理賠，也不是像報紙講的，說我們請3個律師，而是我們就委託一個事務所，事務所裡面有很多律師，所以不是請很多律師啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，這件事情不要再辯解，我覺得你們真的回去好好用心面對，你們這樣子再搞下去，未來也沒有人敢參與所謂的公……就為了全社會的公衛，然後還要去打這個疫苗，這些人這樣子過世了，結果國家……"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定用……"],["廖委員偉翔：國家付出的成本……"],["邱部長泰源：最專業、最公正的立場來處理這些事情，請放心。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝部長。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：應該是用補償的心態，放寬、放寬啦！不然這個是……"],["邱部長泰源：了解。"],["主席：以後你要做這種緊急疫苗可能會出問題，沒有人敢。"],["邱部長泰源：了解。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員、謝謝部長。","接續請盧縣一委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}}