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00:01:24,782\n那我去了那邊以後他跟我提說如果我們想要生小孩要做產檢的話勢必要大概要包車一兩個小時以後才到市區那他就希望說我們整個我家的那個IDS的計畫常常就是需要的科別沒有希望有的科別他就說可能就在研究那永遠都是在這樣的一個\n\n5\n00:01:42,143 --> 00:01:45,467\n現在的IDS是哪一個醫院的?互信箱是哪一個?\n\n6\n00:02:08,050 --> 00:02:34,828\n長庚我想我們來跟長庚醫院協調那我一定說不是只有復興區全國的原住民地區應該都是這樣像我之前在的地方也沒有復長庚醫室來那當然因為我在的地方比較近我是在村院比較靠近訪聊那我們要盤點的是這些比較遠的地方像復興區阿里山鄉、濁西這種比較市區裡至少要一個小時以上距離的這些鄉鎮而且只有衛生所可以提供醫療幫忙\n\n7\n00:02:35,669 --> 00:02:36,370\n因為我當過衛生所主任\n\n8\n00:02:55,918 --> 00:03:06,902\n當時我去臺北縣青山鄉的時候沒有任何醫師我非常了解到衛生所很需要加強戰備因為他在尤其在偏遠地區他就是負擔醫療的責任\n\n9\n00:03:14,284 --> 00:03:37,875\n那所以當然有兩個方法一個是說在IDS就是想要縮短這個偏鄉跟都市的差距那怎麼樣充分來提供資源我想這個一定要努力第二個應該要訓練更多的可以做全科的醫師去做更多的事情包括從健康因為因為你完全要靠\n\n10\n00:03:39,546 --> 00:03:43,247\n接下來就是我去了台東京豐因為這段期間裡面剛好是中秋節以後那已經快一個月了\n\n11\n00:04:33,536 --> 00:04:33,616\n所以﹖\n\n12\n00:05:02,092 --> 00:05:22,621\n當然這些已經進入司法調查我們就不講我們要我們要省事的是什麼就是這個第一件事事情發生的時候為什麼沒有辦法在急診室足夠的來去想像他是不是中毒事件是非常困難嗎因為我有問過急診醫師急診室的醫生說他是其實他的味道其實是不是那麼好聞\n\n13\n00:05:23,881 --> 00:05:50,379\n雖然它是無色的可是它在包裝上面有點像是我們的紅藜然後後來它的味道吃起來應該是有一些味道而且送到院它的那些anticholinergic的那些sideeffect不是很明顯嗎就是那些我們知道的醫療的醫學的術語那這些難道在在history上面或是在它的編譯上面沒有沒有記載這些東西嗎你們是不是要去看一下\n\n14\n00:05:51,039 --> 00:06:00,445\n不然現在鄉親已經要組成自救會因為他們投訴無門求償無門也沒有人可以賠償他們這些生命的損失你不覺得非常的可憐嗎\n\n15\n00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:29,761\n是我們真的是為這件事情也感到非常的遺憾跟難過啦齁那我記得如果是我們這種年齡啦像我跟蘇昭瑋這種年齡齁在接近的時候齁只要有那個人有有有是農民啦齁然後好像中毒的趕快我們就趕快戴兩層殼那個手套啦不然那個巴拉圭那個不是開玩笑的齁那所以是不是說我們\n\n16\n00:06:30,822 --> 00:06:55,565\n或花生的比例越來越少之下,急診的醫師在這個部分的防患性稍微需要再加強。這個我覺得我們要整體系統性的來檢討。球場的部分我想我們會相關的部會一定要給最大的支持,尤其在社會社工這個部分。\n\n17\n00:06:56,266 --> 00:07:22,451\n我們看一下他們的事情發生的地方在濱茂我們看一下相對位置京豐鄉是大概在台東的稍微南方一點再過去到馬街的話要42分鐘左右這是一般開車可是那天晚上發生的時候應該是十幾個人要送急診室嘛所以急診室的那些我們關掉救護車也不夠所以很多都是用私家車送的因為有\n\n18\n00:07:50,362 --> 00:08:19,074\n那個牡丹鄉那為什麼會做這樣的一個規定就是因為他是個完全沒有其他醫療資源的地方所以衛福部這邊應該也要盤去盤點說這那麼遠的地方的衛生所是不是應該要比照我們屏東這兩個衛生所的一個經營模式至少你要24小時也要有急診的一個概念然後呢你看所有的衛生室衛生所全部都打烊了那個時間點根本就找不到人\n\n19\n00:08:19,554 --> 00:08:31,456\n所以你只能就是天天由命那你說你要發展花棟的觀光這些都沒有的話你要怎麼去發展一個救命的東西都沒有\n\n20\n00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:50,131\n你可以體會那個晚上,那天晚上所有的族人擔心跟焦急的那種狀況嗎?他們是用自己的車子在,尤其是明天要出殯的,高增制的我們全國國大代表的夫人是明天要出殯,禮拜六要出殯,他是最後一個死亡,第4件。\n\n21\n00:08:50,939 --> 00:09:08,831\n也就是他是從立秋的家裡載送到那個我們馬街是用自己的車子載的你也知道自己的車子一定沒有什麼氧氣也沒有什麼急救啊只能就是眼睜睜的看著他到醫院然後其實他已經可能已經很多時間已經是腦死的已經是缺氧的狀態了\n\n22\n00:09:10,051 --> 00:09:35,649\n所以才為什麼到現在是就就是包括我們政府其實一直在推展從幾十年前到最近幾年更是更多的來經會來投入強化偏鄉的醫療是目前我看到的急救站實際上的一個狀況這樣子的話我們應該看怎麼樣來改善是啊你至少每10公里每20公里是不是在急救站現在是只有大午嘛大午衛生所嘛\n\n23\n00:09:36,509 --> 00:09:37,970\n我帶過台大醫學院的學生到萬山鄉上面的部落\n\n24\n00:09:55,805 --> 00:10:16,264\n那個時候我們就發現那個地方衛生所是需要一些蛇毒血清的,因為常常會有,所以我們就加強,那個冰箱一定要冰凉。我們再看一下家屬的心聲,他們打電話跟我說,就是說就是剛才我講的一般死亡案件處理,然後就待會兒就報請下院,就很像這件事情就結束了。\n\n25\n00:10:16,724 --> 00:10:43,413\n第二個就是說就是他們認為如果這個第一個是重頭的話後面這12個人就不會不信好最後一個我在去納瑪夏的時候納瑪夏跟我說納瑪夏衛生所以前是在部落的最前面就是民主民權民生最前面在民主八八風災以後衛生所不見了結果重建了以後好不容易重建這麼漂亮的衛生所它的位置在哪裡你知道嗎在部落的上面的非常上面\n\n26\n00:10:45,146 --> 00:10:46,047\n這樣的衛生水你覺得適合蓋在原鄉地區嗎?\n\n27\n00:10:57,415 --> 00:10:57,435\n閱讀者﹗\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7046\t7590\t有請部長\n12930\t39097\t委員好部長好放假期間我有去了復興區復興區是我們最靠近我們都會區的一個原鄉復興區還有烏蘭那為什麼會提到復興呢因為我去復興的時候大概看一下這個地理環境雖然很靠近桃園或者是新北不過它的它的比較後段的部分是靠近宜蘭那我知道你知道復興區有多少個部落嗎部長\n40882\t60260\t我不知道58個部落那58個部落它分布在這麼遼闊的地方像衛生所的大概所在位置就比較靠近我們那個大溪的地方就是比較靠近平地的地方所以所有族人的依賴的一個醫療的環境就是在所謂的衛生所大概原鄉也都是這樣是\n61141\t84782\t那我去了那邊以後他跟我提說如果我們想要生小孩要做產檢的話勢必要大概要包車一兩個小時以後才到市區那他就希望說我們整個我家的那個IDS的計畫常常就是需要的科別沒有希望有的科別他就說可能就在研究那永遠都是在這樣的一個\n86203\t101783\t﹗\n102143\t105467\t現在的IDS是哪一個醫院的?互信箱是哪一個?\n128050\t154828\t長庚我想我們來跟長庚醫院協調那我一定說不是只有復興區全國的原住民地區應該都是這樣像我之前在的地方也沒有復長庚醫室來那當然因為我在的地方比較近我是在村院比較靠近訪聊那我們要盤點的是這些比較遠的地方像復興區阿里山鄉、濁西這種比較市區裡至少要一個小時以上距離的這些鄉鎮而且只有衛生所可以提供醫療幫忙\n155669\t156370\t因為我當過衛生所主任\n175918\t186902\t當時我去臺北縣青山鄉的時候沒有任何醫師我非常了解到衛生所很需要加強戰備因為他在尤其在偏遠地區他就是負擔醫療的責任\n194284\t217875\t那所以當然有兩個方法一個是說在IDS就是想要縮短這個偏鄉跟都市的差距那怎麼樣充分來提供資源我想這個一定要努力第二個應該要訓練更多的可以做全科的醫師去做更多的事情包括從健康因為因為你完全要靠\n219546\t223247\t接下來就是我去了台東京豐因為這段期間裡面剛好是中秋節以後那已經快一個月了\n248592\t273456\t️\n273536\t273616\t所以﹖\n302092\t322621\t當然這些已經進入司法調查我們就不講我們要我們要省事的是什麼就是這個第一件事事情發生的時候為什麼沒有辦法在急診室足夠的來去想像他是不是中毒事件是非常困難嗎因為我有問過急診醫師急診室的醫生說他是其實他的味道其實是不是那麼好聞\n323881\t350379\t雖然它是無色的可是它在包裝上面有點像是我們的紅藜然後後來它的味道吃起來應該是有一些味道而且送到院它的那些anti cholinergic的那些side effect不是很明顯嗎就是那些我們知道的醫療的醫學的術語那這些難道在在history上面或是在它的編譯上面沒有沒有記載這些東西嗎你們是不是要去看一下\n351039\t360445\t不然現在鄉親已經要組成自救會因為他們投訴無門求償無門也沒有人可以賠償他們這些生命的損失你不覺得非常的可憐嗎\n362839\t389761\t是我們真的是為這件事情也感到非常的遺憾跟難過啦齁那我記得如果是我們這種年齡啦像我跟蘇昭瑋這種年齡齁在接近的時候齁只要有那個人有有有是農民啦齁然後好像中毒的趕快我們就趕快戴兩層殼那個手套啦不然那個巴拉圭那個不是開玩笑的齁那所以是不是說我們\n390822\t415565\t或花生的比例越來越少之下,急診的醫師在這個部分的防患性稍微需要再加強。這個我覺得我們要整體系統性的來檢討。球場的部分我想我們會相關的部會一定要給最大的支持,尤其在社會社工這個部分。\n416266\t442451\t我們看一下他們的事情發生的地方在濱茂我們看一下相對位置京豐鄉是大概在台東的稍微南方一點再過去到馬街的話要42分鐘左右這是一般開車可是那天晚上發生的時候應該是十幾個人要送急診室嘛所以急診室的那些我們關掉救護車也不夠所以很多都是用私家車送的因為有\n443831\t470282\t️\n470362\t499074\t那個牡丹鄉那為什麼會做這樣的一個規定就是因為他是個完全沒有其他醫療資源的地方所以衛福部這邊應該也要盤去盤點說這那麼遠的地方的衛生所是不是應該要比照我們屏東這兩個衛生所的一個經營模式至少你要24小時也要有急診的一個概念然後呢你看所有的衛生室衛生所全部都打烊了那個時間點根本就找不到人\n499554\t511456\t所以你只能就是天天由命那你說你要發展花棟的觀光這些都沒有的話你要怎麼去發展一個救命的東西都沒有\n513100\t530131\t你可以體會那個晚上,那天晚上所有的族人擔心跟焦急的那種狀況嗎?他們是用自己的車子在,尤其是明天要出殯的,高增制的我們全國國大代表的夫人是明天要出殯,禮拜六要出殯,他是最後一個死亡,第4件。\n530939\t548831\t也就是他是從立秋的家裡載送到那個我們馬街是用自己的車子載的你也知道自己的車子一定沒有什麼氧氣也沒有什麼急救啊只能就是眼睜睜的看著他到醫院然後其實他已經可能已經很多時間已經是腦死的已經是缺氧的狀態了\n550051\t575649\t所以才為什麼到現在是就就是包括我們政府其實一直在推展從幾十年前到最近幾年更是更多的來經會來投入強化偏鄉的醫療是目前我看到的急救站實際上的一個狀況這樣子的話我們應該看怎麼樣來改善是啊你至少每10公里每20公里是不是在急救站現在是只有大午嘛大午衛生所嘛\n576509\t577970\t我帶過台大醫學院的學生到萬山鄉上面的部落\n595805\t616264\t那個時候我們就發現那個地方衛生所是需要一些蛇毒血清的,因為常常會有,所以我們就加強,那個冰箱一定要冰凉。我們再看一下家屬的心聲,他們打電話跟我說,就是說就是剛才我講的一般死亡案件處理,然後就待會兒就報請下院,就很像這件事情就結束了。\n616724\t643413\t第二個就是說就是他們認為如果這個第一個是重頭的話後面這12個人就不會不信好最後一個我在去納瑪夏的時候納瑪夏跟我說納瑪夏衛生所以前是在部落的最前面就是民主民權民生最前面在民主八八風災以後衛生所不見了結果重建了以後好不容易重建這麼漂亮的衛生所它的位置在哪裡你知道嗎在部落的上面的非常上面\n645146\t646047\t這樣的衛生水你覺得適合蓋在原鄉地區嗎?\n657415\t657435\t閱讀者﹗\n687415\t706067\t﹗\n706067\t719189\t謝謝!\n","txt":"有請部長\n委員好部長好放假期間我有去了復興區復興區是我們最靠近我們都會區的一個原鄉復興區還有烏蘭那為什麼會提到復興呢因為我去復興的時候大概看一下這個地理環境雖然很靠近桃園或者是新北不過它的它的比較後段的部分是靠近宜蘭那我知道你知道復興區有多少個部落嗎部長\n我不知道58個部落那58個部落它分布在這麼遼闊的地方像衛生所的大概所在位置就比較靠近我們那個大溪的地方就是比較靠近平地的地方所以所有族人的依賴的一個醫療的環境就是在所謂的衛生所大概原鄉也都是這樣是\n那我去了那邊以後他跟我提說如果我們想要生小孩要做產檢的話勢必要大概要包車一兩個小時以後才到市區那他就希望說我們整個我家的那個IDS的計畫常常就是需要的科別沒有希望有的科別他就說可能就在研究那永遠都是在這樣的一個\n﹗\n現在的IDS是哪一個醫院的?互信箱是哪一個?\n長庚我想我們來跟長庚醫院協調那我一定說不是只有復興區全國的原住民地區應該都是這樣像我之前在的地方也沒有復長庚醫室來那當然因為我在的地方比較近我是在村院比較靠近訪聊那我們要盤點的是這些比較遠的地方像復興區阿里山鄉、濁西這種比較市區裡至少要一個小時以上距離的這些鄉鎮而且只有衛生所可以提供醫療幫忙\n因為我當過衛生所主任\n當時我去臺北縣青山鄉的時候沒有任何醫師我非常了解到衛生所很需要加強戰備因為他在尤其在偏遠地區他就是負擔醫療的責任\n那所以當然有兩個方法一個是說在IDS就是想要縮短這個偏鄉跟都市的差距那怎麼樣充分來提供資源我想這個一定要努力第二個應該要訓練更多的可以做全科的醫師去做更多的事情包括從健康因為因為你完全要靠\n接下來就是我去了台東京豐因為這段期間裡面剛好是中秋節以後那已經快一個月了\n️\n所以﹖\n當然這些已經進入司法調查我們就不講我們要我們要省事的是什麼就是這個第一件事事情發生的時候為什麼沒有辦法在急診室足夠的來去想像他是不是中毒事件是非常困難嗎因為我有問過急診醫師急診室的醫生說他是其實他的味道其實是不是那麼好聞\n雖然它是無色的可是它在包裝上面有點像是我們的紅藜然後後來它的味道吃起來應該是有一些味道而且送到院它的那些anti cholinergic的那些side effect不是很明顯嗎就是那些我們知道的醫療的醫學的術語那這些難道在在history上面或是在它的編譯上面沒有沒有記載這些東西嗎你們是不是要去看一下\n不然現在鄉親已經要組成自救會因為他們投訴無門求償無門也沒有人可以賠償他們這些生命的損失你不覺得非常的可憐嗎\n是我們真的是為這件事情也感到非常的遺憾跟難過啦齁那我記得如果是我們這種年齡啦像我跟蘇昭瑋這種年齡齁在接近的時候齁只要有那個人有有有是農民啦齁然後好像中毒的趕快我們就趕快戴兩層殼那個手套啦不然那個巴拉圭那個不是開玩笑的齁那所以是不是說我們\n或花生的比例越來越少之下,急診的醫師在這個部分的防患性稍微需要再加強。這個我覺得我們要整體系統性的來檢討。球場的部分我想我們會相關的部會一定要給最大的支持,尤其在社會社工這個部分。\n我們看一下他們的事情發生的地方在濱茂我們看一下相對位置京豐鄉是大概在台東的稍微南方一點再過去到馬街的話要42分鐘左右這是一般開車可是那天晚上發生的時候應該是十幾個人要送急診室嘛所以急診室的那些我們關掉救護車也不夠所以很多都是用私家車送的因為有\n️\n那個牡丹鄉那為什麼會做這樣的一個規定就是因為他是個完全沒有其他醫療資源的地方所以衛福部這邊應該也要盤去盤點說這那麼遠的地方的衛生所是不是應該要比照我們屏東這兩個衛生所的一個經營模式至少你要24小時也要有急診的一個概念然後呢你看所有的衛生室衛生所全部都打烊了那個時間點根本就找不到人\n所以你只能就是天天由命那你說你要發展花棟的觀光這些都沒有的話你要怎麼去發展一個救命的東西都沒有\n你可以體會那個晚上,那天晚上所有的族人擔心跟焦急的那種狀況嗎?他們是用自己的車子在,尤其是明天要出殯的,高增制的我們全國國大代表的夫人是明天要出殯,禮拜六要出殯,他是最後一個死亡,第4件。\n也就是他是從立秋的家裡載送到那個我們馬街是用自己的車子載的你也知道自己的車子一定沒有什麼氧氣也沒有什麼急救啊只能就是眼睜睜的看著他到醫院然後其實他已經可能已經很多時間已經是腦死的已經是缺氧的狀態了\n所以才為什麼到現在是就就是包括我們政府其實一直在推展從幾十年前到最近幾年更是更多的來經會來投入強化偏鄉的醫療是目前我看到的急救站實際上的一個狀況這樣子的話我們應該看怎麼樣來改善是啊你至少每10公里每20公里是不是在急救站現在是只有大午嘛大午衛生所嘛\n我帶過台大醫學院的學生到萬山鄉上面的部落\n那個時候我們就發現那個地方衛生所是需要一些蛇毒血清的,因為常常會有,所以我們就加強,那個冰箱一定要冰凉。我們再看一下家屬的心聲,他們打電話跟我說,就是說就是剛才我講的一般死亡案件處理,然後就待會兒就報請下院,就很像這件事情就結束了。\n第二個就是說就是他們認為如果這個第一個是重頭的話後面這12個人就不會不信好最後一個我在去納瑪夏的時候納瑪夏跟我說納瑪夏衛生所以前是在部落的最前面就是民主民權民生最前面在民主八八風災以後衛生所不見了結果重建了以後好不容易重建這麼漂亮的衛生所它的位置在哪裡你知道嗎在部落的上面的非常上面\n這樣的衛生水你覺得適合蓋在原鄉地區嗎?\n閱讀者﹗\n﹗\n謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.046 --> 00:07.590\n有請部長\n\n00:12.930 --> 00:39.097\n委員好部長好放假期間我有去了復興區復興區是我們最靠近我們都會區的一個原鄉復興區還有烏蘭那為什麼會提到復興呢因為我去復興的時候大概看一下這個地理環境雖然很靠近桃園或者是新北不過它的它的比較後段的部分是靠近宜蘭那我知道你知道復興區有多少個部落嗎部長\n\n00:40.882 --> 01:00.260\n我不知道58個部落那58個部落它分布在這麼遼闊的地方像衛生所的大概所在位置就比較靠近我們那個大溪的地方就是比較靠近平地的地方所以所有族人的依賴的一個醫療的環境就是在所謂的衛生所大概原鄉也都是這樣是\n\n01:01.141 --> 01:24.782\n那我去了那邊以後他跟我提說如果我們想要生小孩要做產檢的話勢必要大概要包車一兩個小時以後才到市區那他就希望說我們整個我家的那個IDS的計畫常常就是需要的科別沒有希望有的科別他就說可能就在研究那永遠都是在這樣的一個\n\n01:42.143 --> 01:45.467\n現在的IDS是哪一個醫院的?互信箱是哪一個?\n\n02:08.050 --> 02:34.828\n長庚我想我們來跟長庚醫院協調那我一定說不是只有復興區全國的原住民地區應該都是這樣像我之前在的地方也沒有復長庚醫室來那當然因為我在的地方比較近我是在村院比較靠近訪聊那我們要盤點的是這些比較遠的地方像復興區阿里山鄉、濁西這種比較市區裡至少要一個小時以上距離的這些鄉鎮而且只有衛生所可以提供醫療幫忙\n\n02:35.669 --> 02:36.370\n因為我當過衛生所主任\n\n02:55.918 --> 03:06.902\n當時我去臺北縣青山鄉的時候沒有任何醫師我非常了解到衛生所很需要加強戰備因為他在尤其在偏遠地區他就是負擔醫療的責任\n\n03:14.284 --> 03:37.875\n那所以當然有兩個方法一個是說在IDS就是想要縮短這個偏鄉跟都市的差距那怎麼樣充分來提供資源我想這個一定要努力第二個應該要訓練更多的可以做全科的醫師去做更多的事情包括從健康因為因為你完全要靠\n\n03:39.546 --> 03:43.247\n接下來就是我去了台東京豐因為這段期間裡面剛好是中秋節以後那已經快一個月了\n\n04:33.536 --> 04:33.616\n所以﹖\n\n05:02.092 --> 05:22.621\n當然這些已經進入司法調查我們就不講我們要我們要省事的是什麼就是這個第一件事事情發生的時候為什麼沒有辦法在急診室足夠的來去想像他是不是中毒事件是非常困難嗎因為我有問過急診醫師急診室的醫生說他是其實他的味道其實是不是那麼好聞\n\n05:23.881 --> 05:50.379\n雖然它是無色的可是它在包裝上面有點像是我們的紅藜然後後來它的味道吃起來應該是有一些味道而且送到院它的那些anticholinergic的那些sideeffect不是很明顯嗎就是那些我們知道的醫療的醫學的術語那這些難道在在history上面或是在它的編譯上面沒有沒有記載這些東西嗎你們是不是要去看一下\n\n05:51.039 --> 06:00.445\n不然現在鄉親已經要組成自救會因為他們投訴無門求償無門也沒有人可以賠償他們這些生命的損失你不覺得非常的可憐嗎\n\n06:02.839 --> 06:29.761\n是我們真的是為這件事情也感到非常的遺憾跟難過啦齁那我記得如果是我們這種年齡啦像我跟蘇昭瑋這種年齡齁在接近的時候齁只要有那個人有有有是農民啦齁然後好像中毒的趕快我們就趕快戴兩層殼那個手套啦不然那個巴拉圭那個不是開玩笑的齁那所以是不是說我們\n\n06:30.822 --> 06:55.565\n或花生的比例越來越少之下,急診的醫師在這個部分的防患性稍微需要再加強。這個我覺得我們要整體系統性的來檢討。球場的部分我想我們會相關的部會一定要給最大的支持,尤其在社會社工這個部分。\n\n06:56.266 --> 07:22.451\n我們看一下他們的事情發生的地方在濱茂我們看一下相對位置京豐鄉是大概在台東的稍微南方一點再過去到馬街的話要42分鐘左右這是一般開車可是那天晚上發生的時候應該是十幾個人要送急診室嘛所以急診室的那些我們關掉救護車也不夠所以很多都是用私家車送的因為有\n\n07:50.362 --> 08:19.074\n那個牡丹鄉那為什麼會做這樣的一個規定就是因為他是個完全沒有其他醫療資源的地方所以衛福部這邊應該也要盤去盤點說這那麼遠的地方的衛生所是不是應該要比照我們屏東這兩個衛生所的一個經營模式至少你要24小時也要有急診的一個概念然後呢你看所有的衛生室衛生所全部都打烊了那個時間點根本就找不到人\n\n08:19.554 --> 08:31.456\n所以你只能就是天天由命那你說你要發展花棟的觀光這些都沒有的話你要怎麼去發展一個救命的東西都沒有\n\n08:33.100 --> 08:50.131\n你可以體會那個晚上,那天晚上所有的族人擔心跟焦急的那種狀況嗎?他們是用自己的車子在,尤其是明天要出殯的,高增制的我們全國國大代表的夫人是明天要出殯,禮拜六要出殯,他是最後一個死亡,第4件。\n\n08:50.939 --> 09:08.831\n也就是他是從立秋的家裡載送到那個我們馬街是用自己的車子載的你也知道自己的車子一定沒有什麼氧氣也沒有什麼急救啊只能就是眼睜睜的看著他到醫院然後其實他已經可能已經很多時間已經是腦死的已經是缺氧的狀態了\n\n09:10.051 --> 09:35.649\n所以才為什麼到現在是就就是包括我們政府其實一直在推展從幾十年前到最近幾年更是更多的來經會來投入強化偏鄉的醫療是目前我看到的急救站實際上的一個狀況這樣子的話我們應該看怎麼樣來改善是啊你至少每10公里每20公里是不是在急救站現在是只有大午嘛大午衛生所嘛\n\n09:36.509 --> 09:37.970\n我帶過台大醫學院的學生到萬山鄉上面的部落\n\n09:55.805 --> 10:16.264\n那個時候我們就發現那個地方衛生所是需要一些蛇毒血清的,因為常常會有,所以我們就加強,那個冰箱一定要冰凉。我們再看一下家屬的心聲,他們打電話跟我說,就是說就是剛才我講的一般死亡案件處理,然後就待會兒就報請下院,就很像這件事情就結束了。\n\n10:16.724 --> 10:43.413\n第二個就是說就是他們認為如果這個第一個是重頭的話後面這12個人就不會不信好最後一個我在去納瑪夏的時候納瑪夏跟我說納瑪夏衛生所以前是在部落的最前面就是民主民權民生最前面在民主八八風災以後衛生所不見了結果重建了以後好不容易重建這麼漂亮的衛生所它的位置在哪裡你知道嗎在部落的上面的非常上面\n\n10:45.146 --> 10:46.047\n這樣的衛生水你覺得適合蓋在原鄉地區嗎?\n\n10:57.415 --> 10:57.435\n閱讀者﹗\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.046,"end":7.59,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":12.93,"end":39.097,"text":"委員好部長好放假期間我有去了復興區復興區是我們最靠近我們都會區的一個原鄉復興區還有烏蘭那為什麼會提到復興呢因為我去復興的時候大概看一下這個地理環境雖然很靠近桃園或者是新北不過它的它的比較後段的部分是靠近宜蘭那我知道你知道復興區有多少個部落嗎部長"},{"start":40.882,"end":60.26,"text":"我不知道58個部落那58個部落它分布在這麼遼闊的地方像衛生所的大概所在位置就比較靠近我們那個大溪的地方就是比較靠近平地的地方所以所有族人的依賴的一個醫療的環境就是在所謂的衛生所大概原鄉也都是這樣是"},{"start":61.141,"end":84.782,"text":"那我去了那邊以後他跟我提說如果我們想要生小孩要做產檢的話勢必要大概要包車一兩個小時以後才到市區那他就希望說我們整個我家的那個IDS的計畫常常就是需要的科別沒有希望有的科別他就說可能就在研究那永遠都是在這樣的一個"},{"start":86.203,"end":101.783,"text":"﹗"},{"start":102.143,"end":105.467,"text":"現在的IDS是哪一個醫院的?互信箱是哪一個?"},{"start":128.05,"end":154.828,"text":"長庚我想我們來跟長庚醫院協調那我一定說不是只有復興區全國的原住民地區應該都是這樣像我之前在的地方也沒有復長庚醫室來那當然因為我在的地方比較近我是在村院比較靠近訪聊那我們要盤點的是這些比較遠的地方像復興區阿里山鄉、濁西這種比較市區裡至少要一個小時以上距離的這些鄉鎮而且只有衛生所可以提供醫療幫忙"},{"start":155.669,"end":156.37,"text":"因為我當過衛生所主任"},{"start":175.918,"end":186.902,"text":"當時我去臺北縣青山鄉的時候沒有任何醫師我非常了解到衛生所很需要加強戰備因為他在尤其在偏遠地區他就是負擔醫療的責任"},{"start":194.284,"end":217.875,"text":"那所以當然有兩個方法一個是說在IDS就是想要縮短這個偏鄉跟都市的差距那怎麼樣充分來提供資源我想這個一定要努力第二個應該要訓練更多的可以做全科的醫師去做更多的事情包括從健康因為因為你完全要靠"},{"start":219.546,"end":223.247,"text":"接下來就是我去了台東京豐因為這段期間裡面剛好是中秋節以後那已經快一個月了"},{"start":248.592,"end":273.456,"text":" ️"},{"start":273.536,"end":273.616,"text":"所以﹖"},{"start":302.092,"end":322.621,"text":"當然這些已經進入司法調查我們就不講我們要我們要省事的是什麼就是這個第一件事事情發生的時候為什麼沒有辦法在急診室足夠的來去想像他是不是中毒事件是非常困難嗎因為我有問過急診醫師急診室的醫生說他是其實他的味道其實是不是那麼好聞"},{"start":323.881,"end":350.379,"text":"雖然它是無色的可是它在包裝上面有點像是我們的紅藜然後後來它的味道吃起來應該是有一些味道而且送到院它的那些anti cholinergic的那些side effect不是很明顯嗎就是那些我們知道的醫療的醫學的術語那這些難道在在history上面或是在它的編譯上面沒有沒有記載這些東西嗎你們是不是要去看一下"},{"start":351.039,"end":360.445,"text":"不然現在鄉親已經要組成自救會因為他們投訴無門求償無門也沒有人可以賠償他們這些生命的損失你不覺得非常的可憐嗎"},{"start":362.839,"end":389.761,"text":"是我們真的是為這件事情也感到非常的遺憾跟難過啦齁那我記得如果是我們這種年齡啦像我跟蘇昭瑋這種年齡齁在接近的時候齁只要有那個人有有有是農民啦齁然後好像中毒的趕快我們就趕快戴兩層殼那個手套啦不然那個巴拉圭那個不是開玩笑的齁那所以是不是說我們"},{"start":390.822,"end":415.565,"text":"或花生的比例越來越少之下,急診的醫師在這個部分的防患性稍微需要再加強。這個我覺得我們要整體系統性的來檢討。球場的部分我想我們會相關的部會一定要給最大的支持,尤其在社會社工這個部分。"},{"start":416.266,"end":442.451,"text":"我們看一下他們的事情發生的地方在濱茂我們看一下相對位置京豐鄉是大概在台東的稍微南方一點再過去到馬街的話要42分鐘左右這是一般開車可是那天晚上發生的時候應該是十幾個人要送急診室嘛所以急診室的那些我們關掉救護車也不夠所以很多都是用私家車送的因為有"},{"start":443.831,"end":470.282,"text":" ️"},{"start":470.362,"end":499.074,"text":"那個牡丹鄉那為什麼會做這樣的一個規定就是因為他是個完全沒有其他醫療資源的地方所以衛福部這邊應該也要盤去盤點說這那麼遠的地方的衛生所是不是應該要比照我們屏東這兩個衛生所的一個經營模式至少你要24小時也要有急診的一個概念然後呢你看所有的衛生室衛生所全部都打烊了那個時間點根本就找不到人"},{"start":499.554,"end":511.456,"text":"所以你只能就是天天由命那你說你要發展花棟的觀光這些都沒有的話你要怎麼去發展一個救命的東西都沒有"},{"start":513.1,"end":530.131,"text":"你可以體會那個晚上,那天晚上所有的族人擔心跟焦急的那種狀況嗎?他們是用自己的車子在,尤其是明天要出殯的,高增制的我們全國國大代表的夫人是明天要出殯,禮拜六要出殯,他是最後一個死亡,第4件。"},{"start":530.939,"end":548.831,"text":"也就是他是從立秋的家裡載送到那個我們馬街是用自己的車子載的你也知道自己的車子一定沒有什麼氧氣也沒有什麼急救啊只能就是眼睜睜的看著他到醫院然後其實他已經可能已經很多時間已經是腦死的已經是缺氧的狀態了"},{"start":550.051,"end":575.649,"text":"所以才為什麼到現在是就就是包括我們政府其實一直在推展從幾十年前到最近幾年更是更多的來經會來投入強化偏鄉的醫療是目前我看到的急救站實際上的一個狀況這樣子的話我們應該看怎麼樣來改善是啊你至少每10公里每20公里是不是在急救站現在是只有大午嘛大午衛生所嘛"},{"start":576.509,"end":577.97,"text":"我帶過台大醫學院的學生到萬山鄉上面的部落"},{"start":595.805,"end":616.264,"text":"那個時候我們就發現那個地方衛生所是需要一些蛇毒血清的,因為常常會有,所以我們就加強,那個冰箱一定要冰凉。我們再看一下家屬的心聲,他們打電話跟我說,就是說就是剛才我講的一般死亡案件處理,然後就待會兒就報請下院,就很像這件事情就結束了。"},{"start":616.724,"end":643.413,"text":"第二個就是說就是他們認為如果這個第一個是重頭的話後面這12個人就不會不信好最後一個我在去納瑪夏的時候納瑪夏跟我說納瑪夏衛生所以前是在部落的最前面就是民主民權民生最前面在民主八八風災以後衛生所不見了結果重建了以後好不容易重建這麼漂亮的衛生所它的位置在哪裡你知道嗎在部落的上面的非常上面"},{"start":645.146,"end":646.047,"text":"這樣的衛生水你覺得適合蓋在原鄉地區嗎?"},{"start":657.415,"end":657.435,"text":"閱讀者﹗"},{"start":687.415,"end":706.067,"text":"﹗"},{"start":706.067,"end":719.189,"text":"謝謝!"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:05:55 - 10:17:54","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155282,"gazette":{"lineno":303,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（10時6分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：部長好。放假期間我去了復興區，復興區是最靠近都會區的一個原鄉，還有烏來，為什麼我會提到復興呢？因為我去復興的時候，大概看一下地理環境，它雖然很靠近桃園或者是新北，不過它比較後段的部分是靠近宜蘭，你知道復興區有多少個部落嗎？部長。"],["邱部長泰源：我不知道。"],["盧委員縣一：58個部落，58個部落分布在這麼遼闊的地方，而衛生所所在位置就比較靠近大溪，就是比較靠近平地的地方，所有族人依賴的醫療環境就是在所謂的衛生所，大概原鄉也都是這樣。我去了那邊以後，他們跟我提到，如果想要生小孩、要做產檢的話，勢必要包車一、兩個小時以後才到市區。因為我們整個國家的IDS計畫，常常就是需要的科別沒有，希望有的科別就說可能再研究，永遠都是在這樣的環境之下等待，所以當我去的時候，主席跟我講說能不能在他們的科別裡面增設婦產科，也就是他們IDS的計畫裡面是不是至少一個禮拜有一次，或者補足衛生所的一些超音波，不然在山上要生小孩、要懷孕，要背負很大的成本。我們今天已經談到人工生殖，在山上的條件還是連懷孕都不敢懷孕的條件之下，你們是不是應該想辦法，IDS至少一個禮拜要有一次婦產科的科別，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們來跟長庚醫院協調。"],["盧委員縣一：我的意思是不是只有復興區，全國的原住民地區應該都是這樣，像我之前在的地方也沒有婦產科醫師來，當然因為我在的地方比較近，我是在春日比較靠近枋寮，我們要盤點的是這些比較遠的地方，像復興區、阿里山鄉、卓溪，離市區至少要一個小時以上距離的這些鄉鎮，而且只有衛生所可以提供醫療幫忙，這部分是不是要盤點？提供他們相關的一些超音波設備，我們的孕婦才敢在部落生小孩，不然全部的人都搬到都市，然後都市的生活條件又不好，是不是幫他們想辦法一下，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，因為我當過衛生所主任，當時我去臺北縣金山鄉的時候沒有任何醫師，最近發生水災……"],["盧委員縣一：對，我的意思是，因為……"],["邱部長泰源：所以我非常了解衛生所……"],["盧委員縣一：你到過基層，所以請幫他們想辦法，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：很需要加強戰備，尤其在偏遠地區，它就是負擔醫療的責任，當然有兩個方案，第一個，IDS就是想要縮短偏鄉跟都市的差距，怎麼樣充分提供資源，我想這個一定要努力。"],["盧委員縣一：對啦！"],["邱部長泰源：第二個，應該要訓練更多可以做全科的醫師去做更多的事情，包括重建……"],["盧委員縣一：對，婦產科醫師、小兒科醫師都很重要。"],["邱部長泰源：因為你完全要靠……有些譬如產檢或者是比較正常、比較平順的懷孕過程，其實受訓良好的家庭醫師也可以做大部分的工作。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：如果必要的話，我們再做最好的專責……"],["盧委員縣一：好，我們時間有限，我知道、我相信部長也能夠體會。","接下來就是我去了臺東金峰，因為這段期間剛好是中秋節以後，也快一個月了，大家在院會裡面都沒有討論到金峰發生的事情。比較可悲的是，中秋節晚上發生了這件事情，也就是比較年長的第一位死亡者，他發生事情的時候大概是晚上八、九點的時間，送到醫院，急診室的判定是他已經死亡了，在詢問以後可能就當做是一般的疾病處理，開了一個乙種診斷書，讓他回去報請相驗，回到家了以後，原住民的習慣就是要去慰喪，剛好是中秋節晚上，大家全部都回來了，左鄰右舍、鄰近的族人都過來，剩下的到最後已經超過晚上12點，大家可能肚子餓了想要熱點東西，又煮了他之前吃的這些東西，所以才會造成一連串的事件，當然這些已經進入司法調查，我們就不講，我們要省思的是什麼？就是第一件事情發生的時候，為什麼沒有辦法在急診室足夠的去想像他是不是中毒事件，這是非常困難嗎？因為我有問過急診室的醫生，他說它的味道其實不是那麼好聞，雖然它是無色的，可是它在包裝上面有點像是我們的紅藜，吃起來應該是有一些味道，而且送到醫院，他的anticholinergics的side effects不是很明顯嗎？就是那些我們知道的醫學術語，難道在他的history上面，或是在他的病歷上面沒有記載這些東西嗎？你們是不是要去看一下？不然現在鄉親已經要組成自救會，因為他們投訴無門、求償無門，也沒有人可以賠償他們這些生命的損失，你不覺得非常的可憐嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：是，我們真的為這件事情也感到非常地遺憾跟難過，如果是我們這種年齡，像我跟蘇召委這種年齡，在急診的時候，只要那個人是農民，然後好像有中毒的狀況，我們就趕快戴兩層手套，不然那個巴拉刈不是開玩笑的，所以是不是我們在發生的比例越來越少之下，急診醫師在這個部分的防範性稍微需要再加強，我覺得我們要整體系統性的來檢討。"],["盧委員縣一：如果到最後真的是求償無門，衛福部這邊有沒有一些……"],["邱部長泰源：在求償的部分，我想我們相關的部會一定要給予最大的支持……"],["盧委員縣一：來救濟，OK。"],["邱部長泰源：尤其是在社工這個部分。"],["盧委員縣一：事情發生的地方是在賓茂，我們看一下相對位置，金峰鄉大概是在臺東稍微南方一點，過去到馬偕要42分鐘左右，這是一般開車，可是那天晚上發生的時候，應該是十幾個人要送急診室，光是叫救護車也不夠，所以很多都是用私家車送的，因為過兩天要出殯的是住在歷坵，這又是在更裡面一點，所以我要講的就是我們在那個地方真的是非常地辛苦。","我們盤點那邊的醫療資源，全部都是正常上下班啦！沒有晚上上班的，更不用說假日了，那天剛好是中秋節晚上，在屏東我們有兩個鄉是24小時營業的，就是霧台鄉跟牡丹鄉，那個是我自己的原住民鄉，為什麼會做這樣的一個規定？就是因為它是個完全沒有其他醫療資源的地方，所以衛福部應該也要去盤點，在那麼遠的地方，衛生所是不是應該要比照屏東這兩個衛生所的經營模式，至少你要24小時營業，也要有急診的一個概念，然後你看所有的衛生室、衛生所全部都打烊了，那個時間點根本就找不到人，所以你只能聽天由命。那你說要發展花東的觀光，這些都沒有的話，你要怎麼去發展？連一個救命的東西都沒有，你可以體會那天晚上所有族人擔心跟焦急的那種狀況嗎？他們是用自己的車子載，尤其明天禮拜六要出殯的是我們前國大代表高正治的夫人，他是第四件，是最後一個死亡的，也就是他從歷坵的家裡用自己的車子載送到馬偕，你也知道自己的車子一定沒有什麼氧氣，也沒有什麼急救，只能眼睜睜地看著他到醫院，其實可能過了很多時間，已經是缺氧的狀態了，所以才死亡嘛……"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們政府其實一直在推展，從幾十年前到最近幾年更是投入更多的經費來強化偏鄉醫療……"],["盧委員縣一：是，目前我看到的急救站只有……"],["邱部長泰源：如果實際上有這樣的狀況，我們應該看怎麼樣來改善，比如說我們做區域聯盟……"],["盧委員縣一：是啊！你至少每10公里、每20公里是不是應該要有一個急救站？現在是只有大武衛生所嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：對！"],["盧委員縣一：從大武衛生所以北，一直到臺東市，大概還有一個多小時的距離喔！就不要講更裡面的部落，所以我現在……"],["邱部長泰源：我覺得要加強衛生所的醫療急救能力，比如說我帶過臺大醫學院的學生到關山鄉上面的部落，那個時候我們就發現那個地方的衛生所是需要一些蛇毒血清的，因為常常會有……所以我們就加強在冰箱一定要冰有……"],["盧委員縣一：好。我們再看一下家屬的心聲，他們打電話跟我說，就是剛才我講的都是用一般死亡案件處理，然後就帶回、報請相驗，很像這件事情就結束了；第二個，他們認為如果第一位判斷是中毒的話，後面這12個人就不會發生不幸。","最後一個，我去那瑪夏的時候，那瑪夏跟我說，那瑪夏衛生所以前是在部落的最前面，就是民族、民權，民生，最前面的民族，八八風災以後衛生所不見了，結果重建了之後，好不容易重建這麼漂亮的衛生所，它的位置在哪裡你知道嗎？在部落的非常上面，電動車是上不去的，摩托車還需要專業技巧才可以上去，一般車子開車的話是不能會車的，這樣的衛生所你覺得適合蓋在原鄉地區嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：對於民眾的醫療accessible是非常重要的。"],["盧委員縣一：是啊！所以你要檢討一下那瑪夏區衛生所為什麼蓋在這裡，而那瑪夏區區長告訴我能不能再把它遷回到部落這裡，所以這個你可以做通盤地考量。"],["邱部長泰源：是！我們可以再加強爭取醫療……"],["盧委員縣一：我希望你能夠走訪一趟。"],["邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。"],["盧委員縣一：因為那瑪夏區不僅是我們高雄最遠的地方，衛生所又蓋在部落裡面最遠的地方，你不覺得這是滑天下之大稽嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們一定去瞭解那裡整個的醫療資源，看如何再來加強。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：不過我也要感謝很多的醫院、很多的醫師，其實他們定期都到臺東、屏東那邊，貢獻非常多……"],["盧委員縣一：我知道，我同學都在這邊值班。"],["邱部長泰源：要非常感謝他們，也感謝在地很多的醫師長久在那邊的貢獻，對此我都充滿了感動，對於不夠的地方，我們衛福部一定協助來幫忙。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝部長，我們一起努力。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝部長、謝謝盧委員。接續我們請林淑芬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}}