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\"text\": \"從108年開始我們可以看到本來的入園人數是還蠻高的喔可是呢到今年你看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 255.877, \"end\": 256.417, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 256.417, \"end\": 256.578, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 256.578, \"end\": 256.758, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 256.758, \"end\": 256.878, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 256.878, \"end\": 256.958, \"score\": 0.565}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 256.958, \"end\": 257.178, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 257.178, \"end\": 257.658, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 257.658, \"end\": 257.979, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 257.979, \"end\": 258.139, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 258.139, \"end\": 258.479, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 258.479, \"end\": 258.879, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 258.879, \"end\": 259.5, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 259.5, \"end\": 259.78, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 259.78, \"end\": 259.96, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 259.96, \"end\": 260.461, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 260.461, \"end\": 260.601, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 260.601, \"end\": 260.741, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 260.741, \"end\": 260.921, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 260.921, \"end\": 261.161, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 261.161, \"end\": 261.341, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 261.341, \"end\": 261.782, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 261.782, \"end\": 262.162, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 262.162, \"end\": 262.182, \"score\": 0.992}]}, {\"start\": 265.219, \"end\": 291.198, \"text\": \"一百二十九萬嘛一百二十九萬那到今年剩下多少呢截至到六月我們不要啦我們看一整年的好不好剩下八十六萬而已那所以呢其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速喔所以我們的入園人數從一百零八年到一百一十二年減少了相當的多那看起來今年可能喔因為截至到六月而已嘛那但可能會更少\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 265.219, \"end\": 265.399, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 265.399, \"end\": 265.719, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 265.719, \"end\": 265.92, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 265.92, \"end\": 266.1, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 266.1, \"end\": 266.58, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 266.58, \"end\": 267.541, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 267.541, \"end\": 267.661, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 267.661, \"end\": 267.781, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 267.781, \"end\": 267.961, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 267.961, \"end\": 268.081, \"score\": 0.483}, {\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 268.081, \"end\": 268.842, 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615.546, \"end\": 615.666, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"巧\", \"start\": 615.666, \"end\": 615.746, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"芯\", \"start\": 615.746, \"end\": 615.766, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 661.986, \"end\": 662.188, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 662.188, \"end\": 662.308, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 662.308, \"end\": 662.328, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"導\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,509 --> 00:00:16,662\n謝謝主席那我們請嚴德發主委請嚴主委主委好最近我國國防部因為軍售案件有一些新聞不知道你有沒有看到\n\n2\n00:00:17,967 --> 00:00:32,684\n委員是指...就最近的一些包含是我們直接講就是雖然您已經卸任了但是在您在任期間有評估過過去的新聞就關於幻象2000的部分那時候在2019年9月23號的時候\n\n3\n00:00:36,949 --> 00:00:59,725\n那我們就有看到您說跟法國的這個公司討論過這個性能的提升計劃那當時呢軍方沒有說要太除是要評估換項的性能提升所以呢當時也有些人在講說服役27年五個飛官殉職法國原廠都太除的換項2000為什麼國軍還在飛\n\n4\n00:01:03,547 --> 00:01:21,577\n那今年9月又有一位飛官在彈跳的時候逃生了那我們也非常慶幸那他的生命是有獲得保障的那後來我們就在新聞上又看到說呢沒想到當時在2019年的時候說延受8年的計劃\n\n5\n00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:27,441\n在我當國防部長那個時期的確有評估過半項兩圈他是否要退出是有評估過\n\n6\n00:01:46,900 --> 00:02:05,402\n但是因為幻象他主要的任務是北部的攻防北部攻防是非常重要的就我們空軍來講現在的戰力來講在那個時期我的那個時期他是非常重要的地位所以我們希望他不要太蠢當作性能提升\n\n7\n00:02:05,862 --> 00:02:06,282\n當時您說可以飛8年\n\n8\n00:02:22,472 --> 00:02:22,612\n徐巧芯\n\n9\n00:02:39,179 --> 00:02:40,500\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n10\n00:03:02,618 --> 00:03:20,739\n當然就剛剛我們事業組處長有報告了東勢東山發生之後那這些天災之後都有受到影響我們那邊的山高山影響的整個的觀光所有的一些旅遊都受到影響但是他們都有辦一些活動比方說奔陽節牧羊人體驗\n\n11\n00:03:21,860 --> 00:03:48,661\n也請了東森的主播淑麗小姐到那邊報氣象這些整整的活動希望能夠帶動附近整個的觀光的氣氛好我們來看一下這個幾個新聞一個是2024年4月的時候是關於地震的因為地震的關係所以這個定房率下降那包含這幾個農場尤其像是南投也好\n\n12\n00:03:49,401 --> 00:04:14,096\n所以這個南投也有一些就他並不是在花蓮但是呢定房率清淨也掉了兩成然後後來呢又有颱風的關係清淨農場的定房呢又掉一成這是最近的去年颱風今年地震但其實呢在更早之前我們就發現了入園人數正在減少我們看下一張表格\n\n13\n00:04:15,877 --> 00:04:22,182\n從108年開始我們可以看到本來的入園人數是還蠻高的喔可是呢到今年你看\n\n14\n00:04:25,219 --> 00:04:51,198\n一百二十九萬嘛一百二十九萬那到今年剩下多少呢截至到六月我們不要啦我們看一整年的好不好剩下八十六萬而已那所以呢其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速喔所以我們的入園人數從一百零八年到一百一十二年減少了相當的多那看起來今年可能喔因為截至到六月而已嘛那但可能會更少\n\n15\n00:04:52,438 --> 00:05:06,863\n雖然今年是有地震又有颱風可是在112年跟111年看起來就已經或許在先前受到疫情的影響那就已經變得更少了主委我會這樣問是因為清淨農場對於南投來說是非常重要的一個指標南投縣的主計處報告裡面就有提到清淨農場的發展是有效帶動十四縣沿途的經濟發展\n\n16\n00:05:20,367 --> 00:05:23,372\n現在清淨農場的入園人數減少會連帶影響周邊的商家前幾個月我在慈佑宮有遇到南投縣長徐淑華帶著一些南投的鄉親北上\n\n17\n00:05:35,430 --> 00:05:47,058\n他們就有跟我做陳情說他們是在南投親近農場周邊的商家他們說呢生意的狀況越來越差尤其是在疫情之後更為明顯還有陸客團沒有再來之後也非常的明顯因為\n\n18\n00:05:53,062 --> 00:05:53,122\n徐巧芯\n\n19\n00:06:12,516 --> 00:06:22,045\n陸客團看上這樣的自然環境．把清淨農場列入行程當中．帶到中偏效應．但是．入團人數逐年減少．從2016的160萬人到現在2018年短短兩年．縮減了35萬人．所以剛才我們提的數字還是比較少的2016年有160萬人．到現在其實我們剛剛舉出的數字剩下\n\n20\n00:06:37,378 --> 00:06:41,341\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n21\n00:07:04,977 --> 00:07:28,114\n親近農產的推展費用111到114年都是編列了335萬左右這樣的推展費用請問一下您覺得足夠嗎那我們的觀光需要振興人數需要加強這方面的宣傳想問一下指委接下來我們應該要如何改善委員我請我們事業處處長跟你講一句就說沒有問題\n\n22\n00:07:29,332 --> 00:07:52,414\n委員好我是事業處處長楊長正非常謝謝委員的關心對大清境地區的關心旅客人數減少是一個事實國內旅遊業的不振也是事實這也是造成人數減少的一個很大很大的原因剛剛委員打了一張表我們從事實上我們從疫情開始以後\n\n23\n00:07:53,335 --> 00:07:53,755\n徐巧芯\n\n24\n00:08:18,731 --> 00:08:39,097\n這幾年為了改善這個情形清淨因為是一個很好的環境教育場地我們也發展了我們鼓勵我們全國中小學的學生到清淨農場去做環境的教育那我們也發文到教育部請教育部配合的推進但是中小學生沒有什麼消費能力\n\n25\n00:08:39,377 --> 00:08:39,958\n那在交通方面呢\n\n26\n00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:09,503\n對,所以我說你們在布展的時候對於國外的觀光旅客的交通宣導的方面來說可能要再多做一些補充因為對於他們來講外國的觀光旅客然後呢到親近農場還有就是呢其實現在來台灣旅遊的旅客韓國人居多不曉得你有沒有發現\n\n27\n00:09:29,831 --> 00:09:57,385\n所以在對於韓國人的宣傳來講韓國觀光自由行或是團客的宣傳來講可能都應該要加強相關的還包括親近農場周邊商家的一些商標跟一些包含是菜館然後呢如果真的有韓國旅客來的話他們的一些指標啊路標啊菜單啊這些如果我們真的能夠吸引到韓國旅客的話這些都要再把它補上補強\n\n28\n00:09:58,405 --> 00:09:58,625\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n29\n00:10:15,546 --> 00:10:15,766\n徐巧芯\n\n30\n00:11:01,986 --> 00:11:02,328\n徐委員指導\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n509\t16662\t謝謝主席 那我們請嚴德發主委請嚴主委主委好最近我國國防部因為軍售案件有一些新聞不知道你有沒有看到\n17967\t32684\t委員是指...就最近的一些包含是我們直接講就是雖然您已經卸任了但是在您在任期間有評估過過去的新聞就關於幻象2000的部分那時候在2019年9月23號的時候\n36949\t59725\t那我們就有看到您說跟法國的這個公司討論過這個性能的提升計劃那當時呢軍方沒有說要太除是要評估換項的性能提升所以呢當時也有些人在講說服役27年五個飛官殉職法國原廠都太除的換項2000為什麼國軍還在飛\n63547\t81577\t那今年9月又有一位飛官在彈跳的時候逃生了那我們也非常慶幸那他的生命是有獲得保障的那後來我們就在新聞上又看到說呢沒想到當時在2019年的時候說延受8年的計劃\n85359\t87441\t在我當國防部長那個時期的確有評估過半項兩圈他是否要退出是有評估過\n106900\t125402\t但是因為幻象他主要的任務是北部的攻防北部攻防是非常重要的就我們空軍來講現在的戰力來講在那個時期我的那個時期他是非常重要的地位所以我們希望他不要太蠢當作性能提升\n125862\t126282\t當時您說可以飛8年\n142472\t142612\t徐巧芯\n159179\t160500\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n182618\t200739\t當然就剛剛我們事業組處長有報告了東勢東山發生之後那這些天災之後都有受到影響我們那邊的山高山影響的整個的觀光所有的一些旅遊都受到影響但是他們都有辦一些活動比方說奔陽節牧羊人體驗\n201860\t228661\t也請了東森的主播淑麗小姐到那邊報氣象這些整整的活動希望能夠帶動附近整個的觀光的氣氛好我們來看一下這個幾個新聞一個是2024年4月的時候是關於地震的因為地震的關係所以這個定房率下降那包含這幾個農場尤其像是南投也好\n229401\t254096\t所以這個南投也有一些就他並不是在花蓮但是呢定房率清淨也掉了兩成然後後來呢又有颱風的關係清淨農場的定房呢又掉一成這是最近的去年颱風今年地震但其實呢在更早之前我們就發現了入園人數正在減少我們看下一張表格\n255877\t262182\t從108年開始我們可以看到本來的入園人數是還蠻高的喔可是呢到今年你看\n265219\t291198\t一百二十九萬嘛一百二十九萬那到今年剩下多少呢截至到六月我們不要啦我們看一整年的好不好剩下八十六萬而已那所以呢其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速喔所以我們的入園人數從一百零八年到一百一十二年減少了相當的多那看起來今年可能喔因為截至到六月而已嘛那但可能會更少\n292438\t306863\t雖然今年是有地震又有颱風可是在112年跟111年看起來就已經或許在先前受到疫情的影響那就已經變得更少了主委我會這樣問是因為清淨農場對於南投來說是非常重要的一個指標南投縣的主計處報告裡面就有提到清淨農場的發展是有效帶動十四縣沿途的經濟發展\n320367\t323372\t現在清淨農場的入園人數減少會連帶影響周邊的商家前幾個月我在慈佑宮有遇到南投縣長徐淑華帶著一些南投的鄉親北上\n335430\t347058\t他們就有跟我做陳情說他們是在南投親近農場周邊的商家他們說呢生意的狀況越來越差尤其是在疫情之後更為明顯還有陸客團沒有再來之後也非常的明顯因為\n353062\t353122\t徐巧芯\n372516\t382045\t陸客團看上這樣的自然環境．把清淨農場列入行程當中．帶到中偏效應．但是．入團人數逐年減少．從2016的160萬人到現在2018年短短兩年．縮減了35萬人．所以剛才我們提的數字還是比較少的2016年有160萬人．到現在其實我們剛剛舉出的數字剩下\n397378\t401341\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n424977\t448114\t親近農產的推展費用111到114年都是編列了335萬左右這樣的推展費用請問一下您覺得足夠嗎那我們的觀光需要振興人數需要加強這方面的宣傳想問一下指委接下來我們應該要如何改善委員我請我們事業處處長跟你講一句就說沒有問題\n449332\t472414\t委員好 我是事業處處長楊長正非常謝謝委員的關心對大清境地區的關心旅客人數減少是一個事實國內旅遊業的不振也是事實這也是造成人數減少的一個很大很大的原因剛剛委員打了一張表我們從事實上我們從疫情開始以後\n473335\t473755\t徐巧芯\n498731\t519097\t這幾年為了改善這個情形清淨因為是一個很好的環境教育場地我們也發展了我們鼓勵我們全國中小學的學生到清淨農場去做環境的教育那我們也發文到教育部請教育部配合的推進但是中小學生沒有什麼消費能力\n519377\t519958\t那在交通方面呢\n542040\t549503\t對,所以我說你們在布展的時候對於國外的觀光旅客的交通宣導的方面來說可能要再多做一些補充因為對於他們來講外國的觀光旅客然後呢到親近農場還有就是呢其實現在來台灣旅遊的旅客韓國人居多不曉得你有沒有發現\n569831\t597385\t所以在對於韓國人的宣傳來講韓國觀光自由行或是團客的宣傳來講可能都應該要加強相關的還包括親近農場周邊商家的一些商標跟一些包含是菜館然後呢如果真的有韓國旅客來的話他們的一些指標啊路標啊菜單啊這些如果我們真的能夠吸引到韓國旅客的話這些都要再把它補上補強\n598405\t598625\t徐巧芯徐巧芯\n615546\t615766\t徐巧芯\n632978\t661664\t﹗\n661986\t662328\t徐委員指導\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那我們請嚴德發主委請嚴主委主委好最近我國國防部因為軍售案件有一些新聞不知道你有沒有看到\n委員是指...就最近的一些包含是我們直接講就是雖然您已經卸任了但是在您在任期間有評估過過去的新聞就關於幻象2000的部分那時候在2019年9月23號的時候\n那我們就有看到您說跟法國的這個公司討論過這個性能的提升計劃那當時呢軍方沒有說要太除是要評估換項的性能提升所以呢當時也有些人在講說服役27年五個飛官殉職法國原廠都太除的換項2000為什麼國軍還在飛\n那今年9月又有一位飛官在彈跳的時候逃生了那我們也非常慶幸那他的生命是有獲得保障的那後來我們就在新聞上又看到說呢沒想到當時在2019年的時候說延受8年的計劃\n在我當國防部長那個時期的確有評估過半項兩圈他是否要退出是有評估過\n但是因為幻象他主要的任務是北部的攻防北部攻防是非常重要的就我們空軍來講現在的戰力來講在那個時期我的那個時期他是非常重要的地位所以我們希望他不要太蠢當作性能提升\n當時您說可以飛8年\n徐巧芯\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n當然就剛剛我們事業組處長有報告了東勢東山發生之後那這些天災之後都有受到影響我們那邊的山高山影響的整個的觀光所有的一些旅遊都受到影響但是他們都有辦一些活動比方說奔陽節牧羊人體驗\n也請了東森的主播淑麗小姐到那邊報氣象這些整整的活動希望能夠帶動附近整個的觀光的氣氛好我們來看一下這個幾個新聞一個是2024年4月的時候是關於地震的因為地震的關係所以這個定房率下降那包含這幾個農場尤其像是南投也好\n所以這個南投也有一些就他並不是在花蓮但是呢定房率清淨也掉了兩成然後後來呢又有颱風的關係清淨農場的定房呢又掉一成這是最近的去年颱風今年地震但其實呢在更早之前我們就發現了入園人數正在減少我們看下一張表格\n從108年開始我們可以看到本來的入園人數是還蠻高的喔可是呢到今年你看\n一百二十九萬嘛一百二十九萬那到今年剩下多少呢截至到六月我們不要啦我們看一整年的好不好剩下八十六萬而已那所以呢其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速喔所以我們的入園人數從一百零八年到一百一十二年減少了相當的多那看起來今年可能喔因為截至到六月而已嘛那但可能會更少\n雖然今年是有地震又有颱風可是在112年跟111年看起來就已經或許在先前受到疫情的影響那就已經變得更少了主委我會這樣問是因為清淨農場對於南投來說是非常重要的一個指標南投縣的主計處報告裡面就有提到清淨農場的發展是有效帶動十四縣沿途的經濟發展\n現在清淨農場的入園人數減少會連帶影響周邊的商家前幾個月我在慈佑宮有遇到南投縣長徐淑華帶著一些南投的鄉親北上\n他們就有跟我做陳情說他們是在南投親近農場周邊的商家他們說呢生意的狀況越來越差尤其是在疫情之後更為明顯還有陸客團沒有再來之後也非常的明顯因為\n徐巧芯\n陸客團看上這樣的自然環境．把清淨農場列入行程當中．帶到中偏效應．但是．入團人數逐年減少．從2016的160萬人到現在2018年短短兩年．縮減了35萬人．所以剛才我們提的數字還是比較少的2016年有160萬人．到現在其實我們剛剛舉出的數字剩下\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n親近農產的推展費用111到114年都是編列了335萬左右這樣的推展費用請問一下您覺得足夠嗎那我們的觀光需要振興人數需要加強這方面的宣傳想問一下指委接下來我們應該要如何改善委員我請我們事業處處長跟你講一句就說沒有問題\n委員好 我是事業處處長楊長正非常謝謝委員的關心對大清境地區的關心旅客人數減少是一個事實國內旅遊業的不振也是事實這也是造成人數減少的一個很大很大的原因剛剛委員打了一張表我們從事實上我們從疫情開始以後\n徐巧芯\n這幾年為了改善這個情形清淨因為是一個很好的環境教育場地我們也發展了我們鼓勵我們全國中小學的學生到清淨農場去做環境的教育那我們也發文到教育部請教育部配合的推進但是中小學生沒有什麼消費能力\n那在交通方面呢\n對,所以我說你們在布展的時候對於國外的觀光旅客的交通宣導的方面來說可能要再多做一些補充因為對於他們來講外國的觀光旅客然後呢到親近農場還有就是呢其實現在來台灣旅遊的旅客韓國人居多不曉得你有沒有發現\n所以在對於韓國人的宣傳來講韓國觀光自由行或是團客的宣傳來講可能都應該要加強相關的還包括親近農場周邊商家的一些商標跟一些包含是菜館然後呢如果真的有韓國旅客來的話他們的一些指標啊路標啊菜單啊這些如果我們真的能夠吸引到韓國旅客的話這些都要再把它補上補強\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n徐巧芯\n﹗\n徐委員指導\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.509 --> 00:16.662\n謝謝主席那我們請嚴德發主委請嚴主委主委好最近我國國防部因為軍售案件有一些新聞不知道你有沒有看到\n\n00:17.967 --> 00:32.684\n委員是指...就最近的一些包含是我們直接講就是雖然您已經卸任了但是在您在任期間有評估過過去的新聞就關於幻象2000的部分那時候在2019年9月23號的時候\n\n00:36.949 --> 00:59.725\n那我們就有看到您說跟法國的這個公司討論過這個性能的提升計劃那當時呢軍方沒有說要太除是要評估換項的性能提升所以呢當時也有些人在講說服役27年五個飛官殉職法國原廠都太除的換項2000為什麼國軍還在飛\n\n01:03.547 --> 01:21.577\n那今年9月又有一位飛官在彈跳的時候逃生了那我們也非常慶幸那他的生命是有獲得保障的那後來我們就在新聞上又看到說呢沒想到當時在2019年的時候說延受8年的計劃\n\n01:25.359 --> 01:27.441\n在我當國防部長那個時期的確有評估過半項兩圈他是否要退出是有評估過\n\n01:46.900 --> 02:05.402\n但是因為幻象他主要的任務是北部的攻防北部攻防是非常重要的就我們空軍來講現在的戰力來講在那個時期我的那個時期他是非常重要的地位所以我們希望他不要太蠢當作性能提升\n\n02:05.862 --> 02:06.282\n當時您說可以飛8年\n\n02:22.472 --> 02:22.612\n徐巧芯\n\n02:39.179 --> 02:40.500\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n03:02.618 --> 03:20.739\n當然就剛剛我們事業組處長有報告了東勢東山發生之後那這些天災之後都有受到影響我們那邊的山高山影響的整個的觀光所有的一些旅遊都受到影響但是他們都有辦一些活動比方說奔陽節牧羊人體驗\n\n03:21.860 --> 03:48.661\n也請了東森的主播淑麗小姐到那邊報氣象這些整整的活動希望能夠帶動附近整個的觀光的氣氛好我們來看一下這個幾個新聞一個是2024年4月的時候是關於地震的因為地震的關係所以這個定房率下降那包含這幾個農場尤其像是南投也好\n\n03:49.401 --> 04:14.096\n所以這個南投也有一些就他並不是在花蓮但是呢定房率清淨也掉了兩成然後後來呢又有颱風的關係清淨農場的定房呢又掉一成這是最近的去年颱風今年地震但其實呢在更早之前我們就發現了入園人數正在減少我們看下一張表格\n\n04:15.877 --> 04:22.182\n從108年開始我們可以看到本來的入園人數是還蠻高的喔可是呢到今年你看\n\n04:25.219 --> 04:51.198\n一百二十九萬嘛一百二十九萬那到今年剩下多少呢截至到六月我們不要啦我們看一整年的好不好剩下八十六萬而已那所以呢其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速喔所以我們的入園人數從一百零八年到一百一十二年減少了相當的多那看起來今年可能喔因為截至到六月而已嘛那但可能會更少\n\n04:52.438 --> 05:06.863\n雖然今年是有地震又有颱風可是在112年跟111年看起來就已經或許在先前受到疫情的影響那就已經變得更少了主委我會這樣問是因為清淨農場對於南投來說是非常重要的一個指標南投縣的主計處報告裡面就有提到清淨農場的發展是有效帶動十四縣沿途的經濟發展\n\n05:20.367 --> 05:23.372\n現在清淨農場的入園人數減少會連帶影響周邊的商家前幾個月我在慈佑宮有遇到南投縣長徐淑華帶著一些南投的鄉親北上\n\n05:35.430 --> 05:47.058\n他們就有跟我做陳情說他們是在南投親近農場周邊的商家他們說呢生意的狀況越來越差尤其是在疫情之後更為明顯還有陸客團沒有再來之後也非常的明顯因為\n\n05:53.062 --> 05:53.122\n徐巧芯\n\n06:12.516 --> 06:22.045\n陸客團看上這樣的自然環境．把清淨農場列入行程當中．帶到中偏效應．但是．入團人數逐年減少．從2016的160萬人到現在2018年短短兩年．縮減了35萬人．所以剛才我們提的數字還是比較少的2016年有160萬人．到現在其實我們剛剛舉出的數字剩下\n\n06:37.378 --> 06:41.341\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n07:04.977 --> 07:28.114\n親近農產的推展費用111到114年都是編列了335萬左右這樣的推展費用請問一下您覺得足夠嗎那我們的觀光需要振興人數需要加強這方面的宣傳想問一下指委接下來我們應該要如何改善委員我請我們事業處處長跟你講一句就說沒有問題\n\n07:29.332 --> 07:52.414\n委員好我是事業處處長楊長正非常謝謝委員的關心對大清境地區的關心旅客人數減少是一個事實國內旅遊業的不振也是事實這也是造成人數減少的一個很大很大的原因剛剛委員打了一張表我們從事實上我們從疫情開始以後\n\n07:53.335 --> 07:53.755\n徐巧芯\n\n08:18.731 --> 08:39.097\n這幾年為了改善這個情形清淨因為是一個很好的環境教育場地我們也發展了我們鼓勵我們全國中小學的學生到清淨農場去做環境的教育那我們也發文到教育部請教育部配合的推進但是中小學生沒有什麼消費能力\n\n08:39.377 --> 08:39.958\n那在交通方面呢\n\n09:02.040 --> 09:09.503\n對,所以我說你們在布展的時候對於國外的觀光旅客的交通宣導的方面來說可能要再多做一些補充因為對於他們來講外國的觀光旅客然後呢到親近農場還有就是呢其實現在來台灣旅遊的旅客韓國人居多不曉得你有沒有發現\n\n09:29.831 --> 09:57.385\n所以在對於韓國人的宣傳來講韓國觀光自由行或是團客的宣傳來講可能都應該要加強相關的還包括親近農場周邊商家的一些商標跟一些包含是菜館然後呢如果真的有韓國旅客來的話他們的一些指標啊路標啊菜單啊這些如果我們真的能夠吸引到韓國旅客的話這些都要再把它補上補強\n\n09:58.405 --> 09:58.625\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n10:15.546 --> 10:15.766\n徐巧芯\n\n11:01.986 --> 11:02.328\n徐委員指導\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.509,"end":16.662,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們請嚴德發主委請嚴主委主委好最近我國國防部因為軍售案件有一些新聞不知道你有沒有看到"},{"start":17.967,"end":32.684,"text":"委員是指...就最近的一些包含是我們直接講就是雖然您已經卸任了但是在您在任期間有評估過過去的新聞就關於幻象2000的部分那時候在2019年9月23號的時候"},{"start":36.949,"end":59.725,"text":"那我們就有看到您說跟法國的這個公司討論過這個性能的提升計劃那當時呢軍方沒有說要太除是要評估換項的性能提升所以呢當時也有些人在講說服役27年五個飛官殉職法國原廠都太除的換項2000為什麼國軍還在飛"},{"start":63.547,"end":81.577,"text":"那今年9月又有一位飛官在彈跳的時候逃生了那我們也非常慶幸那他的生命是有獲得保障的那後來我們就在新聞上又看到說呢沒想到當時在2019年的時候說延受8年的計劃"},{"start":85.359,"end":87.441,"text":"在我當國防部長那個時期的確有評估過半項兩圈他是否要退出是有評估過"},{"start":106.9,"end":125.402,"text":"但是因為幻象他主要的任務是北部的攻防北部攻防是非常重要的就我們空軍來講現在的戰力來講在那個時期我的那個時期他是非常重要的地位所以我們希望他不要太蠢當作性能提升"},{"start":125.862,"end":126.282,"text":"當時您說可以飛8年"},{"start":142.472,"end":142.612,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":159.179,"end":160.5,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":182.618,"end":200.739,"text":"當然就剛剛我們事業組處長有報告了東勢東山發生之後那這些天災之後都有受到影響我們那邊的山高山影響的整個的觀光所有的一些旅遊都受到影響但是他們都有辦一些活動比方說奔陽節牧羊人體驗"},{"start":201.86,"end":228.661,"text":"也請了東森的主播淑麗小姐到那邊報氣象這些整整的活動希望能夠帶動附近整個的觀光的氣氛好我們來看一下這個幾個新聞一個是2024年4月的時候是關於地震的因為地震的關係所以這個定房率下降那包含這幾個農場尤其像是南投也好"},{"start":229.401,"end":254.096,"text":"所以這個南投也有一些就他並不是在花蓮但是呢定房率清淨也掉了兩成然後後來呢又有颱風的關係清淨農場的定房呢又掉一成這是最近的去年颱風今年地震但其實呢在更早之前我們就發現了入園人數正在減少我們看下一張表格"},{"start":255.877,"end":262.182,"text":"從108年開始我們可以看到本來的入園人數是還蠻高的喔可是呢到今年你看"},{"start":265.219,"end":291.198,"text":"一百二十九萬嘛一百二十九萬那到今年剩下多少呢截至到六月我們不要啦我們看一整年的好不好剩下八十六萬而已那所以呢其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速喔所以我們的入園人數從一百零八年到一百一十二年減少了相當的多那看起來今年可能喔因為截至到六月而已嘛那但可能會更少"},{"start":292.438,"end":306.863,"text":"雖然今年是有地震又有颱風可是在112年跟111年看起來就已經或許在先前受到疫情的影響那就已經變得更少了主委我會這樣問是因為清淨農場對於南投來說是非常重要的一個指標南投縣的主計處報告裡面就有提到清淨農場的發展是有效帶動十四縣沿途的經濟發展"},{"start":320.367,"end":323.372,"text":"現在清淨農場的入園人數減少會連帶影響周邊的商家前幾個月我在慈佑宮有遇到南投縣長徐淑華帶著一些南投的鄉親北上"},{"start":335.43,"end":347.058,"text":"他們就有跟我做陳情說他們是在南投親近農場周邊的商家他們說呢生意的狀況越來越差尤其是在疫情之後更為明顯還有陸客團沒有再來之後也非常的明顯因為"},{"start":353.062,"end":353.122,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":372.516,"end":382.045,"text":"陸客團看上這樣的自然環境．把清淨農場列入行程當中．帶到中偏效應．但是．入團人數逐年減少．從2016的160萬人到現在2018年短短兩年．縮減了35萬人．所以剛才我們提的數字還是比較少的2016年有160萬人．到現在其實我們剛剛舉出的數字剩下"},{"start":397.378,"end":401.341,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":424.977,"end":448.114,"text":"親近農產的推展費用111到114年都是編列了335萬左右這樣的推展費用請問一下您覺得足夠嗎那我們的觀光需要振興人數需要加強這方面的宣傳想問一下指委接下來我們應該要如何改善委員我請我們事業處處長跟你講一句就說沒有問題"},{"start":449.332,"end":472.414,"text":"委員好 我是事業處處長楊長正非常謝謝委員的關心對大清境地區的關心旅客人數減少是一個事實國內旅遊業的不振也是事實這也是造成人數減少的一個很大很大的原因剛剛委員打了一張表我們從事實上我們從疫情開始以後"},{"start":473.335,"end":473.755,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":498.731,"end":519.097,"text":"這幾年為了改善這個情形清淨因為是一個很好的環境教育場地我們也發展了我們鼓勵我們全國中小學的學生到清淨農場去做環境的教育那我們也發文到教育部請教育部配合的推進但是中小學生沒有什麼消費能力"},{"start":519.377,"end":519.958,"text":"那在交通方面呢"},{"start":542.04,"end":549.503,"text":"對,所以我說你們在布展的時候對於國外的觀光旅客的交通宣導的方面來說可能要再多做一些補充因為對於他們來講外國的觀光旅客然後呢到親近農場還有就是呢其實現在來台灣旅遊的旅客韓國人居多不曉得你有沒有發現"},{"start":569.831,"end":597.385,"text":"所以在對於韓國人的宣傳來講韓國觀光自由行或是團客的宣傳來講可能都應該要加強相關的還包括親近農場周邊商家的一些商標跟一些包含是菜館然後呢如果真的有韓國旅客來的話他們的一些指標啊路標啊菜單啊這些如果我們真的能夠吸引到韓國旅客的話這些都要再把它補上補強"},{"start":598.405,"end":598.625,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":615.546,"end":615.766,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":632.978,"end":661.664,"text":"﹗"},{"start":661.986,"end":662.328,"text":"徐委員指導"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:18:08 - 10:29:14","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155287,"gazette":{"lineno":287,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時18分）謝謝主席，我們請嚴德發主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：主委好。最近我國國防部因為軍售案件有一些新聞，不知道您有沒有看到？"],["嚴主任委員德發：委員是指？"],["徐委員巧芯：就最近的一些，我們直接講，雖然你已經卸任了，但是在您在任期間有評估過，這是過去的新聞，關於幻象2000的部分，在2019年9月23號的時候，我們有看到您說「跟法國的公司討論過性能的提升計畫」，當時軍方沒有說要汰除，是要評估幻象的性能提升，但當時也有些人提出質疑，服役27年、5個飛官殉職，法國原廠都汰除的幻象2000，為什麼國軍還在飛？今年9月又有一位飛官彈跳逃生了，我們也非常慶幸他的生命是有獲得保障的。後來我們在新聞上又看到，沒想到當時在2019年時說延壽8年的計畫，現在不只要延壽8年，在雙座機的部分要延壽到20年，就過去您的專業來說，不知道您會有什麼樣的一個評價？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，在我當國防部長的那個時期，的確有評估過幻象2000是否要汰除，是有評估過，但是因為幻象主要的任務是北部的空防，北部空防是非常重要的，就我們空軍現在的戰力來講，在我的那個時期，它是非常重要的地位，所以我們希望它不要汰除，做性能提升，但是它的後勤維護費是比較貴，但還是要承擔，因為畢竟空安、國安更重要，當初是這樣子考量，跟委員做一個報告。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，所以當時你們說可以飛8年，未來會不會到30年、40年，這也都是我們很關注的一個議題，我們當然也是希望如果能換新的飛機，北部的空防很重要，能有新的飛機，當然對我們的飛行員來說，會有更多的保障。","另外，跟主委現在的工作有關的是關於我們的清境農場，很多人或許不知道清境農場是由退輔會來做管理的，7月、8月暑假已經結束了，不知道您清不清楚今年暑假我們清境農場的入園情形是如何的，跟往年比起來，是更好，還是更差？"],["嚴主任委員德發：當然，剛剛我們事業處處長也報告了，0403地震發生之後，都有受到影響，我們三高山的整個觀光、所有的旅遊都受到影響，但是他們都有辦一些活動，比方奔羊節、牧羊人體驗，也請了東森的主播淑麗小姐到那邊報氣象，這些種種的活動也就是希望能夠帶動附近整個觀光的氣氛。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，我們來看一下這幾個新聞，一個是2024年4月的時候，是關於地震的，因為地震的關係，所以訂房率下降，包含這幾個農場，尤其南投，南投也有一些，它並不是在花蓮，但是清境的訂房率也掉了二成，後來又有颱風的關係，清境農場的訂房又掉一成，這是最近的，去年颱風，今年地震，但其實在更早之前，我們就發現了入園人數正在減少。","我們看下一張表格。從108年開始，我們可以看到，本來的入園人數還滿高的，是129萬，可是到今年剩下多少呢？今年的是截至6月，我們看一整年的，112年剩下86萬而已，所以其實這個遞減可以說是相當的快速，我們的入園人數從108年到112年減少了相當的多，看起來，今年的因為統計截至到6月而已，但可能會更少，雖然今年是有地震又有颱風，可是在112年和111年看起來，或許先前受到疫情的影響，就已經變得更少了。","主委，我會這樣問是因為清境農場對於南投來說是非常重要的一個指標，南投縣主計處的報告裡面就有提到，清境農場的發展有效帶動14線沿途的經濟發展，現在清境農場的入園人數減少會連帶影響周邊的商家。前幾個月我在慈祐宮有遇到南投縣長許淑華帶著一些南投的鄉親北上，他們就有跟我做陳情，說他們是在南投清境農場周邊的商家，他們說生意的狀況越來越差，尤其是在疫情之後更為明顯，還有陸客團沒有再來之後，也非常的明顯，因為先前陸客團確實有把清境農場，就是南投縣，作為一個主要的觀光旅遊景點，就南投被視為陸客團的一個主要觀光旅遊景點。確實有這樣，包含新聞都有，我們可以看，新聞上寫，陸客團看上這樣的自然環境，把清境農場列入行程當中，帶動周邊效應，但是入園人數逐年減少，從2016年的160萬人，到現在2018年，短短2年縮減了35萬人。所以剛才我們提的數字還是比較少的，2016年有160萬人，到現在，其實我們剛剛舉出的數字剩下八十多萬人而已，從160萬到80萬，減掉了一半的數字，附近的商家生意也跟著蕭條。","請問一下，雖然我們去年辦了星空音樂會，辦了奔羊節，9月參加日本的旅展，這些都非常好，我們也支持宣傳和創意，可是看起來，成效並沒有到非常好。清境農場的推展費用111到114年都是編列了335萬左右，這樣的推展費用，請問一下，您覺得足夠嗎？我們的觀光需要振興，人數需要加強，這方面的宣傳，想問一下主委，接下來我們應該要如何改善？"],["嚴主任委員德發：委員，我請我們事業處處長跟你詳細做說明。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有問題。"],["楊處長長政：委員好！我是事業處處長楊長政。非常謝謝委員對大清境地區的關心，旅客人數減少是一個事實，國內旅宿業、旅遊業的不振也是事實，這也是造成人數減少的一個很大很大的原因。","剛剛委員打了一張表，事實上，我們從疫情開始以後，從一百二十幾萬掉到七十幾萬，但從111年的七十幾萬到112年我們回到86萬，這個經過很多努力的。我們也鼓勵我們的國人到大清境地區參觀，我也知道這對南投的觀光旅遊業有非常非常大的影響，因為我們都會跟當地的旅宿業展開很親密的合作關係，這幾年為了改善這個情形，因為清境是一個很好的環境教育場地，所以我們也發展鼓勵我們全國中小學的學生到清境農場去做環境教育，我們也發文到教育部，請教育部配合推展。另外一個……"],["徐委員巧芯：好啊！但是中小學生沒有什麼消費能力。"],["楊處長長政：不是，他們還是會有，還是會有。另外一個……"],["徐委員巧芯：好，買紅茶，是不是？"],["楊處長長政：為了要把這個地方介紹給國外的旅客，我們今年11月1日開始會在101大樓布展，他們邀請我們去布展，為期1年的時間，我們把整個三高山農場所有美麗的景觀通通介紹給國外的旅客……"],["徐委員巧芯：在交通方面呢？"],["楊處長長政：交通方面，清境農場的交通沒有問題，從臺中高鐵站到清境農場大概1個半小時就可以到了……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，所以我說你們在布展的時候，對於國外的觀光旅客，交通宣導的方面可能要再多做一些補充……"],["楊處長長政：是、是、是。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為對外國的觀光旅客來講，到清境農場的交通方面滿重要的，還有其實現在來臺灣旅遊的旅客，韓國人居多，不曉得你有沒有發現……"],["楊處長長政：有。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以對於韓國人的宣傳來講，自由行或是團客的觀光宣傳可能都應該要加強。相關的還包括清境農場周邊商家的商標，包含菜館，如果真的有韓國旅客來的話，還有提供給他們的指標、路標、菜單這些，如果我們真的能夠吸引到韓國旅客的話，這些都要再補上、補強，當然是先有吸引到韓國旅客，像臺北市的話，就在這方面有滿大的成效。","所以你們要有一個方向和目標，到底你們能夠吸引到的是哪一方面的旅客，而不是漫無目的地在一個會場擺一個場地，就覺得能夠吸引到觀光客，因為這是一個比較亂槍打鳥的方式，所以你們應該要先分析清境農場大概可以吸引到的是哪一個國家的人，哪一個族群可能會對這樣子的環境比較有興趣，他會想要來，再針對這一個族群去做更多的行銷，不然的話，你們擺展，就是大家人來人往經過，看的人到底會不會去你也不知道，花了錢做了宣傳如果沒有用，旅客數還是沒有辦法提升，我們其實就浪費掉這些預算，所以我希望我們在規劃的時候能夠更精進地去鎖定做精準的行銷，好嗎？"],["楊處長長政：是，謝謝委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝。"],["嚴主任委員德發：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員。主委，請回。","接下來請洪申翰委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":330,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","洪申翰","王定宇","黃仁","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","邱志偉"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00005"}}}