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\"其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反應因為政府往往不是想得很清楚我有很多資訊平台後續要怎麼運用所以常常會造成這個所謂採購需求不明確或者是招標規格不清楚各種爭議所以變成最後可能會系統閒置這其實很多資訊平台或資訊公司也提醒所以為什麼後來行政院也公佈了採購資訊服務的作業指引\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 443.328, \"end\": 443.728, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 443.728, \"end\": 443.848, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 443.848, \"end\": 443.928, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 443.928, \"end\": 444.029, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 444.029, \"end\": 444.409, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 444.409, \"end\": 444.649, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 444.649, \"end\": 445.029, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 445.029, \"end\": 445.209, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 445.209, \"end\": 445.41, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 445.41, \"end\": 445.57, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 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478.121, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 478.121, \"end\": 478.301, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 478.301, \"end\": 479.602, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 479.602, \"end\": 480.763, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 480.763, \"end\": 481.063, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 481.063, \"end\": 481.243, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 481.243, \"end\": 481.443, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 481.443, \"end\": 481.523, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 481.523, \"end\": 481.543, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 484.971, \"end\": 496.855, \"text\": \"謝謝委員的指導那事實上跟委員報告我們這一段期間都已經也去很重要的去拜訪勞動部為什麼因為我們勞動部將來我這個軍人民專長轉弦的系統裡面的界階其實是勞動部的職能基準還有他一個就業百科這個相關的一個網站我們把軍人的一個專長跟他一起透過AI的技術來把它做好那個比對的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, 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{\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 800.803, \"end\": 800.963, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 800.963, \"end\": 801.084, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 801.084, \"end\": 801.244, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 801.244, \"end\": 801.264, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 801.644, \"end\": 801.764, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 801.764, \"end\": 801.784, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"導\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,807 --> 00:00:23,094\n主委最近大家在討論到這個關於所謂祖國的問題那賴總統其實也在國慶晚會其實也做了很清楚的釐清\n\n2\n00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:39,513\n那我們也看到有些人說到底誰把中華人民共和國當主國可是過去其實我們還是會在一些新聞上面其實還是在一些資料上面是看到會有一些退伍軍人那\n\n3\n00:00:40,953 --> 00:00:41,033\n報告委員\n\n4\n00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:27,053\n中華人民共和國不可能是我們的祖國我們的祖國就是中華民國尤其軍人效忠國家一定要效忠人民都不可以做這些數典忘祖的事情那主委你這邊講得很清楚我們也不希望未來再有退伍軍人在做這些相關的言論跟行為\n\n5\n00:01:28,615 --> 00:01:56,493\n但當然我們也都知道中共勢必還是會持續地用各種方法不管是挖泥墻角或者是各種統戰的做法來去吸引更其他的可能也不只是退伏軍人類似相關的希望大家做這種相關言行的表態那我想問一下退伏會目前有沒有什麼明確的機制或做法因為剛剛朱薇講的是你的立場那在做法上面\n\n6\n00:01:57,735 --> 00:02:23,307\n主委可不可以再說得更清楚一點跟委員報告我們國內的退協組織有30多個跟我們輔導會都有關係用事業為目的所以我們常常都有做聯繫把這些相關的不管人民關係條例或者是國安法以及相關的一些規範都有跟他們做一些告知一些報告然後我們在地區的農夫處\n\n7\n00:02:24,808 --> 00:02:32,810\n我剛才就是說你剛才其實把立場說得清楚但我們希望在做法上面可以更明確然後做法上面希望可以更積極\n\n8\n00:02:52,174 --> 00:03:11,047\n那當然這個議題我們就先講到這邊那接下來當然我們也還是持續的想要來跟這個主委討論到關於我們退伏會在這個軍民專長轉嫌的這個問題主委下面一張主委我不知道你有沒有看過這個報導這是這段時間這個天下雜誌那他講了一個說美國的企業在大搶軍人我不知道主委有沒有看過這個報導\n\n9\n00:03:23,406 --> 00:03:31,431\n我在媒體上有看過有看過那一樣想問主委你覺得為什麼美國的企業搶著招募退伍軍人為什麼\n\n10\n00:03:34,332 --> 00:03:54,635\n因為軍人的忠誠度比較高而且管理能力也比較強但我們看到這些報導是參考我們看到其實剛剛在講到說報導裡面說到美國退伍軍人其實他們用一個詞叫做是企業搶著挖角的人才金礦\n\n11\n00:03:56,036 --> 00:04:09,532\n所以各大現在是這個零售公司包括沃瑪包括AT&T包括美國銀行企業公司等等都搶著招募退伍軍人那其中一個很大的原因就是覺得軍人的抗壓性高而且領導力好\n\n12\n00:04:11,835 --> 00:04:35,231\n所以他說在民間其實很少有不到25歲的年輕人就已經有三四十歲的豐富經驗這是為什麼他們很想要搶著招募這個退伍軍人的原因但我想問主委你覺得為什麼台灣的企業沒有搶著招募退伍軍人我們的情境跟美國差異在哪裡我請事業處就業處處長跟你說明\n\n13\n00:04:38,993 --> 00:04:43,115\n委員好我是舊學監事處處長池玉蘭在這邊跟委員報告當然我們軍人長期都是在軍中服役的話他確實是跟社會是有一點隔閡的但是這幾年我要回應的是這幾年特別疫情過後我們整個國家的勞動力是欠缺的\n\n14\n00:04:58,704 --> 00:05:00,766\n白宮百業在欠缺的過程這幾年非常多的企業主動找到我們輔導會希望我們能夠推介適任的優質的一個退伍軍人到他們的企業去服務\n\n15\n00:05:13,641 --> 00:05:32,409\n這個所以我在這邊我想把這個問題用這個方式來表達的意思我並不是要否定退輔會不要誤會退輔會過去其實也做了很多的努力包括我其實在6月的時候我們那時候在質詢的時候其實我也看到退輔會跟國防部後來也很積極的在辦理這個跨部會\n\n16\n00:05:33,469 --> 00:06:00,108\n成立跨部會的專案的小組甚至在10月1號的時候其實就已經訂出了實施的計畫這是我覺得我們都看到但我剛剛拿美國的狀況來講其實美國人做得到的狀況我們不一定做不到它是一個有可能可以做得到的目標的不是只是我們一直要把我們的退伍券推銷出去不是這樣子而已甚至做得好的話有可能企業自己都會想來搶人才\n\n17\n00:06:01,269 --> 00:06:16,637\n甚至他講的很可能他不是只是把退伍軍人當作勞動力他甚至是把他作為一個有領導力有管理能力的人才可能是做得到這件事情的這是我講美國的原因但是我現在有幾個問題就是說當然我們現在看到這個\n\n18\n00:06:18,157 --> 00:06:32,299\n在退伍會跟國防部在處理這個軍民專長轉嫌機制的時候當然這裡面我們看到幾個重要的目標第一個是協助退伍官兵克服就業的困境這當然第一個\n\n19\n00:06:33,736 --> 00:06:55,187\n更重要我自己認為更重要是協助國軍招募官兵也就是說我們讓在招募的時候就讓大家知道你來入伍其實你的退伍以後你的就業的前景也是好的那這會更鼓勵大家願意到加入到國軍裡面這也解決我們很多國防安全上面的問題\n\n20\n00:06:56,553 --> 00:07:21,573\n那我也看到現在你們在退伏會的會計錄和實施計畫裡面有一個軍民專長轉型運用平台我看到這個運用平台那這個運用平台裡面你們規劃了時程2024年年底是先行規劃明年五月招標然後一年半以後希望能夠去啟用然後來借接三個部會的這個職能應用平台這些東西都很好但我想問的事情是我也想提醒先提醒\n\n21\n00:07:23,328 --> 00:07:48,786\n其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反應因為政府往往不是想得很清楚我有很多資訊平台後續要怎麼運用所以常常會造成這個所謂採購需求不明確或者是招標規格不清楚各種爭議所以變成最後可能會系統閒置這其實很多資訊平台或資訊公司也提醒所以為什麼後來行政院也公佈了採購資訊服務的作業指引\n\n22\n00:07:53,018 --> 00:08:01,543\n接下來我要問的問題就是關於剛剛講的建制這個軍民專長轉型運用平臺現在會不會打算怎麼運用\n\n23\n00:08:04,971 --> 00:08:16,855\n謝謝委員的指導那事實上跟委員報告我們這一段期間都已經也去很重要的去拜訪勞動部為什麼因為我們勞動部將來我這個軍人民專長轉弦的系統裡面的界階其實是勞動部的職能基準還有他一個就業百科這個相關的一個網站我們把軍人的一個專長跟他一起透過AI的技術來把它做好那個比對的\n\n24\n00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:56,419\n處長這部分我有聽到剛剛主委其實在回覆沈博洋委員的時候也講到這個AI的資料的運用是但是我要強調技術有這個技術很好但重點是怎麼應用好跟委員報告怎麼用得上那這怎麼用得上會關乎到我們到底現在欠缺什麼事情是好所以技術的規劃要跟我們現在欠缺的事情要能夠對應得上所以處長\n\n25\n00:08:58,661 --> 00:09:04,144\n將來我這個運用平台的系統其實我們就是現有我有一個就業服務網我會去給他擴充簡單的來講這個退出役官兵來到我們容服處的時候我們的就業服務人員一個電腦按下去他就可以知道這個退出役官兵他在過去的相關的軍中的一個專長學歷等等能夠\n\n26\n00:09:24,616 --> 00:09:25,937\n我跟主委還是要說你們講這些規劃我都肯定\n\n27\n00:09:46,796 --> 00:10:03,846\n但是重點我說怎麼運用跟活用的點在於我們是不是先已經理解到我們現在在整個機制上面目前有什麼不足我比方說我們最近看了一些包括在學界其實也不少相關的研究在研究這個國軍官兵退伍以後的一些就業的困難\n\n28\n00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:24,387\n那做了幾個歸納：比方這大概是我們在參考一些相關的報告裡面看到的事情第一個他們講到執訓課程不足那說到這個執訓課程需要配合退伍時間可能選不到或者是不能選到真正想學的包括這個證照承認有限也就是這個退伍會辦的修車訓練民間保守長並不承認\n\n29\n00:10:27,108 --> 00:10:47,995\n的報告工作機會有限等等等等這都是我們現在機制上面缺乏的事情所以我現在的意思是說我們有一個資訊的平台很好這也是我們大家之前要求的那把這事情給建立起來但我們能不能夠把後端的目前的缺乏的問題再做一次的釐清甚至後端的規劃這個後端的規劃再能夠\n\n30\n00:10:50,885 --> 00:11:09,959\n回饋到那我們現在的資訊系統要怎麼樣子能夠更優化讓我們後端的這些不足有更多的支撐在系統平台資訊對接上面的支撐現在大家是希望是這件事所以這是要一直想強調的事情是系統有系統很好但系統不會用他就變成是死的\n\n31\n00:11:11,178 --> 00:11:22,379\n重點是怎麼活用這還是重點所以怎麼活用的應用的方式的部分這部分可能還是希望主委這邊多費心那我們在這邊因為時間有限我這邊有幾個建議也請主委看看\n\n32\n00:11:23,359 --> 00:11:44,318\n第一個事情是當然這個你們現在還在處在先期規劃的期間嘛這個先期規劃期間能不能夠請你們再加強包括就業就學的輔導包括如何改善執訓的內容因為執訓的內容其實就像剛才講其實是很多人都有詬病的地方目前執訓的內容不足或者是品質可能還有一些問題\n\n33\n00:11:45,319 --> 00:12:03,760\n第一個是改善執訊的內容跟輔導的內容第二個剛剛說借接三個部會擴大執訊包括證照的認證如果證照的認證我們一直做很多證照可是民間就是不認對不起這接起來還是有困難我不管我的資訊系統怎麼建得再好都還是接不起來還是會有這個問題\n\n34\n00:12:04,801 --> 00:12:17,734\n最後當然也希望能夠把這些系統用在國軍的招募上面也就是說強調在招募的時候就強調這是我們會給大家支持讓大家可以知道我們有做這樣子的準備我說這些事情可能是在後端的活用跟應用上面\n\n35\n00:12:18,786 --> 00:12:44,324\n我們是不是能夠再做一些釐清那這個釐清之後可以把我們的需求再一次的回饋優惠到優化到我們的這個資訊平台上面的使用這可能相對是比較完整主委可以嗎是是可以謝謝委員他指導我們現在前端部分我們就把委員剛剛指導我們要把現況做個檢討比方說資訊剛剛講的資訊為什麼找不到他的資訊那這個系統完整是我們希望能夠把這個問題都克服讓\n\n36\n00:12:45,325 --> 00:12:48,049\n其實我們都知道這個退伍的轉值做好其實就是某部分做好招募你做好招募其實就是現在我們\n\n37\n00:13:04,088 --> 00:13:21,264\n整個募兵制或者是整個募兵機制非常非常重要的關鍵所以可能這裡不只是像過去所謂照顧榮民這個概念而已的事情這其實已經影響到甚至影響到我們現在的軍力我們現在的國防實力其實都是一貫連結在一起的事情\n\n38\n00:13:21,644 --> 00:13:21,784\n謝謝委員指導\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n807\t23094\t主委最近大家在討論到這個關於所謂祖國的問題那賴總統其實也在國慶晚會其實也做了很清楚的釐清\n24150\t39513\t那我們也看到有些人說到底誰把中華人民共和國當主國可是過去其實我們還是會在一些新聞上面其實還是在一些資料上面是看到會有一些退伍軍人那\n40953\t41033\t報告委員\n65270\t87053\t中華人民共和國不可能是我們的祖國我們的祖國就是中華民國尤其軍人效忠國家一定要效忠人民都不可以做這些數典忘祖的事情那主委你這邊講得很清楚我們也不希望未來再有退伍軍人在做這些相關的言論跟行為\n88615\t116493\t但當然我們也都知道中共勢必還是會持續地用各種方法不管是挖泥墻角或者是各種統戰的做法來去吸引更其他的可能也不只是退伏軍人類似相關的希望大家做這種相關言行的表態那我想問一下退伏會目前有沒有什麼明確的機制或做法因為剛剛朱薇講的是你的立場那在做法上面\n117735\t143307\t主委可不可以再說得更清楚一點跟委員報告我們國內的退協組織有30多個跟我們輔導會都有關係用事業為目的所以我們常常都有做聯繫把這些相關的不管人民關係條例或者是國安法以及相關的一些規範都有跟他們做一些告知一些報告然後我們在地區的農夫處\n144808\t152810\t我剛才就是說你剛才其實把立場說得清楚但我們希望在做法上面可以更明確然後做法上面希望可以更積極\n172174\t191047\t那當然這個議題我們就先講到這邊那接下來當然我們也還是持續的想要來跟這個主委討論到關於我們退伏會在這個軍民專長轉嫌的這個問題主委下面一張主委我不知道你有沒有看過這個報導這是這段時間這個天下雜誌那他講了一個說美國的企業在大搶軍人我不知道主委有沒有看過這個報導\n203406\t211431\t我在媒體上有看過有看過那一樣想問主委你覺得為什麼美國的企業搶著招募退伍軍人為什麼\n214332\t234635\t因為軍人的忠誠度比較高而且管理能力也比較強但我們看到這些報導是參考我們看到其實剛剛在講到說報導裡面說到美國退伍軍人其實他們用一個詞叫做是企業搶著挖角的人才金礦\n236036\t249532\t所以各大現在是這個零售公司包括沃瑪包括AT&T包括美國銀行企業公司等等都搶著招募退伍軍人那其中一個很大的原因就是覺得軍人的抗壓性高而且領導力好\n251835\t275231\t所以他說在民間其實很少有不到25歲的年輕人就已經有三四十歲的豐富經驗這是為什麼他們很想要搶著招募這個退伍軍人的原因但我想問主委你覺得為什麼台灣的企業沒有搶著招募退伍軍人我們的情境跟美國差異在哪裡我請事業處就業處處長跟你說明\n278993\t283115\t委員好 我是舊學監事處處長池玉蘭在這邊跟委員報告當然我們軍人長期都是在軍中服役的話他確實是跟社會是有一點隔閡的但是這幾年我要回應的是這幾年特別疫情過後我們整個國家的勞動力是欠缺的\n298704\t300766\t白宮百業在欠缺的過程這幾年非常多的企業主動找到我們輔導會希望我們能夠推介適任的優質的一個退伍軍人到他們的企業去服務\n313641\t332409\t這個所以我在這邊我想把這個問題用這個方式來表達的意思我並不是要否定退輔會不要誤會退輔會過去其實也做了很多的努力包括我其實在6月的時候我們那時候在質詢的時候其實我也看到退輔會跟國防部後來也很積極的在辦理這個跨部會\n333469\t360108\t成立跨部會的專案的小組甚至在10月1號的時候其實就已經訂出了實施的計畫這是我覺得我們都看到但我剛剛拿美國的狀況來講其實美國人做得到的狀況我們不一定做不到它是一個有可能可以做得到的目標的不是只是我們一直要把我們的退伍券推銷出去不是這樣子而已甚至做得好的話有可能企業自己都會想來搶人才\n361269\t376637\t甚至他講的很可能他不是只是把退伍軍人當作勞動力他甚至是把他作為一個有領導力有管理能力的人才可能是做得到這件事情的這是我講美國的原因但是我現在有幾個問題就是說當然我們現在看到這個\n378157\t392299\t在退伍會跟國防部在處理這個軍民專長轉嫌機制的時候當然這裡面我們看到幾個重要的目標第一個是協助退伍官兵克服就業的困境這當然第一個\n393736\t415187\t更重要我自己認為更重要是協助國軍招募官兵也就是說我們讓在招募的時候就讓大家知道你來入伍其實你的退伍以後你的就業的前景也是好的那這會更鼓勵大家願意到加入到國軍裡面這也解決我們很多國防安全上面的問題\n416553\t441573\t那我也看到現在你們在退伏會的會計錄和實施計畫裡面有一個軍民專長轉型運用平台我看到這個運用平台那這個運用平台裡面你們規劃了時程2024年年底是先行規劃明年五月招標然後一年半以後希望能夠去啟用然後來借接三個部會的這個職能應用平台這些東西都很好但我想問的事情是我也想提醒先提醒\n443328\t468786\t其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反應因為政府往往不是想得很清楚我有很多資訊平台後續要怎麼運用所以常常會造成這個所謂採購需求不明確或者是招標規格不清楚各種爭議所以變成最後可能會系統閒置這其實很多資訊平台或資訊公司也提醒所以為什麼後來行政院也公佈了採購資訊服務的作業指引\n473018\t481543\t接下來我要問的問題就是關於剛剛講的建制這個軍民專長轉型運用平臺現在會不會打算怎麼運用\n484971\t496855\t謝謝委員的指導那事實上跟委員報告我們這一段期間都已經也去很重要的去拜訪勞動部為什麼因為我們勞動部將來我這個軍人民專長轉弦的系統裡面的界階其實是勞動部的職能基準還有他一個就業百科這個相關的一個網站我們把軍人的一個專長跟他一起透過AI的技術來把它做好那個比對的\n511880\t536419\t處長這部分我有聽到剛剛主委其實在回覆沈博洋委員的時候也講到這個AI的資料的運用是但是我要強調技術有這個技術很好但重點是怎麼應用好跟委員報告怎麼用得上那這怎麼用得上會關乎到我們到底現在欠缺什麼事情是好所以技術的規劃要跟我們現在欠缺的事情要能夠對應得上所以處長\n538661\t544144\t將來我這個運用平台的系統其實我們就是現有我有一個就業服務網我會去給他擴充簡單的來講這個退出役官兵來到我們容服處的時候我們的就業服務人員一個電腦按下去他就可以知道這個退出役官兵他在過去的相關的軍中的一個專長學歷等等能夠\n564616\t565937\t我跟主委還是要說你們講這些規劃我都肯定\n586796\t603846\t但是重點我說怎麼運用跟活用的點在於我們是不是先已經理解到我們現在在整個機制上面目前有什麼不足我比方說我們最近看了一些包括在學界其實也不少相關的研究在研究這個國軍官兵退伍以後的一些就業的困難\n605080\t624387\t那做了幾個歸納：比方這大概是我們在參考一些相關的報告裡面看到的事情第一個他們講到執訓課程不足那說到這個執訓課程需要配合退伍時間可能選不到或者是不能選到真正想學的包括這個證照承認有限也就是這個退伍會辦的修車訓練民間保守長並不承認\n627108\t647995\t的報告工作機會有限等等等等這都是我們現在機制上面缺乏的事情所以我現在的意思是說我們有一個資訊的平台很好這也是我們大家之前要求的那把這事情給建立起來但我們能不能夠把後端的目前的缺乏的問題再做一次的釐清甚至後端的規劃這個後端的規劃再能夠\n650885\t669959\t回饋到那我們現在的資訊系統要怎麼樣子能夠更優化讓我們後端的這些不足有更多的支撐在系統平台資訊對接上面的支撐現在大家是希望是這件事所以這是要一直想強調的事情是系統有系統很好但系統不會用他就變成是死的\n671178\t682379\t重點是怎麼活用這還是重點所以怎麼活用的應用的方式的部分這部分可能還是希望主委這邊多費心那我們在這邊因為時間有限我這邊有幾個建議也請主委看看\n683359\t704318\t第一個事情是當然這個你們現在還在處在先期規劃的期間嘛這個先期規劃期間能不能夠請你們再加強包括就業就學的輔導包括如何改善執訓的內容因為執訓的內容其實就像剛才講其實是很多人都有詬病的地方目前執訓的內容不足或者是品質可能還有一些問題\n705319\t723760\t第一個是改善執訊的內容跟輔導的內容第二個剛剛說借接三個部會擴大執訊包括證照的認證如果證照的認證我們一直做很多證照可是民間就是不認對不起這接起來還是有困難我不管我的資訊系統怎麼建得再好都還是接不起來還是會有這個問題\n724801\t737734\t最後當然也希望能夠把這些系統用在國軍的招募上面也就是說強調在招募的時候就強調這是我們會給大家支持讓大家可以知道我們有做這樣子的準備我說這些事情可能是在後端的活用跟應用上面\n738786\t764324\t我們是不是能夠再做一些釐清那這個釐清之後可以把我們的需求再一次的回饋優惠到優化到我們的這個資訊平台上面的使用這可能相對是比較完整主委可以嗎是是可以謝謝委員他指導我們現在前端部分我們就把委員剛剛指導我們要把現況做個檢討比方說資訊剛剛講的資訊為什麼找不到他的資訊那這個系統完整是我們希望能夠把這個問題都克服讓\n765325\t768049\t其實我們都知道這個退伍的轉值做好其實就是某部分做好招募你做好招募其實就是現在我們\n784088\t801264\t整個募兵制或者是整個募兵機制非常非常重要的關鍵所以可能這裡不只是像過去所謂照顧榮民這個概念而已的事情這其實已經影響到甚至影響到我們現在的軍力我們現在的國防實力其實都是一貫連結在一起的事情\n801644\t801784\t謝謝委員指導\n","txt":"主委最近大家在討論到這個關於所謂祖國的問題那賴總統其實也在國慶晚會其實也做了很清楚的釐清\n那我們也看到有些人說到底誰把中華人民共和國當主國可是過去其實我們還是會在一些新聞上面其實還是在一些資料上面是看到會有一些退伍軍人那\n報告委員\n中華人民共和國不可能是我們的祖國我們的祖國就是中華民國尤其軍人效忠國家一定要效忠人民都不可以做這些數典忘祖的事情那主委你這邊講得很清楚我們也不希望未來再有退伍軍人在做這些相關的言論跟行為\n但當然我們也都知道中共勢必還是會持續地用各種方法不管是挖泥墻角或者是各種統戰的做法來去吸引更其他的可能也不只是退伏軍人類似相關的希望大家做這種相關言行的表態那我想問一下退伏會目前有沒有什麼明確的機制或做法因為剛剛朱薇講的是你的立場那在做法上面\n主委可不可以再說得更清楚一點跟委員報告我們國內的退協組織有30多個跟我們輔導會都有關係用事業為目的所以我們常常都有做聯繫把這些相關的不管人民關係條例或者是國安法以及相關的一些規範都有跟他們做一些告知一些報告然後我們在地區的農夫處\n我剛才就是說你剛才其實把立場說得清楚但我們希望在做法上面可以更明確然後做法上面希望可以更積極\n那當然這個議題我們就先講到這邊那接下來當然我們也還是持續的想要來跟這個主委討論到關於我們退伏會在這個軍民專長轉嫌的這個問題主委下面一張主委我不知道你有沒有看過這個報導這是這段時間這個天下雜誌那他講了一個說美國的企業在大搶軍人我不知道主委有沒有看過這個報導\n我在媒體上有看過有看過那一樣想問主委你覺得為什麼美國的企業搶著招募退伍軍人為什麼\n因為軍人的忠誠度比較高而且管理能力也比較強但我們看到這些報導是參考我們看到其實剛剛在講到說報導裡面說到美國退伍軍人其實他們用一個詞叫做是企業搶著挖角的人才金礦\n所以各大現在是這個零售公司包括沃瑪包括AT&T包括美國銀行企業公司等等都搶著招募退伍軍人那其中一個很大的原因就是覺得軍人的抗壓性高而且領導力好\n所以他說在民間其實很少有不到25歲的年輕人就已經有三四十歲的豐富經驗這是為什麼他們很想要搶著招募這個退伍軍人的原因但我想問主委你覺得為什麼台灣的企業沒有搶著招募退伍軍人我們的情境跟美國差異在哪裡我請事業處就業處處長跟你說明\n委員好 我是舊學監事處處長池玉蘭在這邊跟委員報告當然我們軍人長期都是在軍中服役的話他確實是跟社會是有一點隔閡的但是這幾年我要回應的是這幾年特別疫情過後我們整個國家的勞動力是欠缺的\n白宮百業在欠缺的過程這幾年非常多的企業主動找到我們輔導會希望我們能夠推介適任的優質的一個退伍軍人到他們的企業去服務\n這個所以我在這邊我想把這個問題用這個方式來表達的意思我並不是要否定退輔會不要誤會退輔會過去其實也做了很多的努力包括我其實在6月的時候我們那時候在質詢的時候其實我也看到退輔會跟國防部後來也很積極的在辦理這個跨部會\n成立跨部會的專案的小組甚至在10月1號的時候其實就已經訂出了實施的計畫這是我覺得我們都看到但我剛剛拿美國的狀況來講其實美國人做得到的狀況我們不一定做不到它是一個有可能可以做得到的目標的不是只是我們一直要把我們的退伍券推銷出去不是這樣子而已甚至做得好的話有可能企業自己都會想來搶人才\n甚至他講的很可能他不是只是把退伍軍人當作勞動力他甚至是把他作為一個有領導力有管理能力的人才可能是做得到這件事情的這是我講美國的原因但是我現在有幾個問題就是說當然我們現在看到這個\n在退伍會跟國防部在處理這個軍民專長轉嫌機制的時候當然這裡面我們看到幾個重要的目標第一個是協助退伍官兵克服就業的困境這當然第一個\n更重要我自己認為更重要是協助國軍招募官兵也就是說我們讓在招募的時候就讓大家知道你來入伍其實你的退伍以後你的就業的前景也是好的那這會更鼓勵大家願意到加入到國軍裡面這也解決我們很多國防安全上面的問題\n那我也看到現在你們在退伏會的會計錄和實施計畫裡面有一個軍民專長轉型運用平台我看到這個運用平台那這個運用平台裡面你們規劃了時程2024年年底是先行規劃明年五月招標然後一年半以後希望能夠去啟用然後來借接三個部會的這個職能應用平台這些東西都很好但我想問的事情是我也想提醒先提醒\n其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反應因為政府往往不是想得很清楚我有很多資訊平台後續要怎麼運用所以常常會造成這個所謂採購需求不明確或者是招標規格不清楚各種爭議所以變成最後可能會系統閒置這其實很多資訊平台或資訊公司也提醒所以為什麼後來行政院也公佈了採購資訊服務的作業指引\n接下來我要問的問題就是關於剛剛講的建制這個軍民專長轉型運用平臺現在會不會打算怎麼運用\n謝謝委員的指導那事實上跟委員報告我們這一段期間都已經也去很重要的去拜訪勞動部為什麼因為我們勞動部將來我這個軍人民專長轉弦的系統裡面的界階其實是勞動部的職能基準還有他一個就業百科這個相關的一個網站我們把軍人的一個專長跟他一起透過AI的技術來把它做好那個比對的\n處長這部分我有聽到剛剛主委其實在回覆沈博洋委員的時候也講到這個AI的資料的運用是但是我要強調技術有這個技術很好但重點是怎麼應用好跟委員報告怎麼用得上那這怎麼用得上會關乎到我們到底現在欠缺什麼事情是好所以技術的規劃要跟我們現在欠缺的事情要能夠對應得上所以處長\n將來我這個運用平台的系統其實我們就是現有我有一個就業服務網我會去給他擴充簡單的來講這個退出役官兵來到我們容服處的時候我們的就業服務人員一個電腦按下去他就可以知道這個退出役官兵他在過去的相關的軍中的一個專長學歷等等能夠\n我跟主委還是要說你們講這些規劃我都肯定\n但是重點我說怎麼運用跟活用的點在於我們是不是先已經理解到我們現在在整個機制上面目前有什麼不足我比方說我們最近看了一些包括在學界其實也不少相關的研究在研究這個國軍官兵退伍以後的一些就業的困難\n那做了幾個歸納：比方這大概是我們在參考一些相關的報告裡面看到的事情第一個他們講到執訓課程不足那說到這個執訓課程需要配合退伍時間可能選不到或者是不能選到真正想學的包括這個證照承認有限也就是這個退伍會辦的修車訓練民間保守長並不承認\n的報告工作機會有限等等等等這都是我們現在機制上面缺乏的事情所以我現在的意思是說我們有一個資訊的平台很好這也是我們大家之前要求的那把這事情給建立起來但我們能不能夠把後端的目前的缺乏的問題再做一次的釐清甚至後端的規劃這個後端的規劃再能夠\n回饋到那我們現在的資訊系統要怎麼樣子能夠更優化讓我們後端的這些不足有更多的支撐在系統平台資訊對接上面的支撐現在大家是希望是這件事所以這是要一直想強調的事情是系統有系統很好但系統不會用他就變成是死的\n重點是怎麼活用這還是重點所以怎麼活用的應用的方式的部分這部分可能還是希望主委這邊多費心那我們在這邊因為時間有限我這邊有幾個建議也請主委看看\n第一個事情是當然這個你們現在還在處在先期規劃的期間嘛這個先期規劃期間能不能夠請你們再加強包括就業就學的輔導包括如何改善執訓的內容因為執訓的內容其實就像剛才講其實是很多人都有詬病的地方目前執訓的內容不足或者是品質可能還有一些問題\n第一個是改善執訊的內容跟輔導的內容第二個剛剛說借接三個部會擴大執訊包括證照的認證如果證照的認證我們一直做很多證照可是民間就是不認對不起這接起來還是有困難我不管我的資訊系統怎麼建得再好都還是接不起來還是會有這個問題\n最後當然也希望能夠把這些系統用在國軍的招募上面也就是說強調在招募的時候就強調這是我們會給大家支持讓大家可以知道我們有做這樣子的準備我說這些事情可能是在後端的活用跟應用上面\n我們是不是能夠再做一些釐清那這個釐清之後可以把我們的需求再一次的回饋優惠到優化到我們的這個資訊平台上面的使用這可能相對是比較完整主委可以嗎是是可以謝謝委員他指導我們現在前端部分我們就把委員剛剛指導我們要把現況做個檢討比方說資訊剛剛講的資訊為什麼找不到他的資訊那這個系統完整是我們希望能夠把這個問題都克服讓\n其實我們都知道這個退伍的轉值做好其實就是某部分做好招募你做好招募其實就是現在我們\n整個募兵制或者是整個募兵機制非常非常重要的關鍵所以可能這裡不只是像過去所謂照顧榮民這個概念而已的事情這其實已經影響到甚至影響到我們現在的軍力我們現在的國防實力其實都是一貫連結在一起的事情\n謝謝委員指導\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.807 --> 00:23.094\n主委最近大家在討論到這個關於所謂祖國的問題那賴總統其實也在國慶晚會其實也做了很清楚的釐清\n\n00:24.150 --> 00:39.513\n那我們也看到有些人說到底誰把中華人民共和國當主國可是過去其實我們還是會在一些新聞上面其實還是在一些資料上面是看到會有一些退伍軍人那\n\n00:40.953 --> 00:41.033\n報告委員\n\n01:05.270 --> 01:27.053\n中華人民共和國不可能是我們的祖國我們的祖國就是中華民國尤其軍人效忠國家一定要效忠人民都不可以做這些數典忘祖的事情那主委你這邊講得很清楚我們也不希望未來再有退伍軍人在做這些相關的言論跟行為\n\n01:28.615 --> 01:56.493\n但當然我們也都知道中共勢必還是會持續地用各種方法不管是挖泥墻角或者是各種統戰的做法來去吸引更其他的可能也不只是退伏軍人類似相關的希望大家做這種相關言行的表態那我想問一下退伏會目前有沒有什麼明確的機制或做法因為剛剛朱薇講的是你的立場那在做法上面\n\n01:57.735 --> 02:23.307\n主委可不可以再說得更清楚一點跟委員報告我們國內的退協組織有30多個跟我們輔導會都有關係用事業為目的所以我們常常都有做聯繫把這些相關的不管人民關係條例或者是國安法以及相關的一些規範都有跟他們做一些告知一些報告然後我們在地區的農夫處\n\n02:24.808 --> 02:32.810\n我剛才就是說你剛才其實把立場說得清楚但我們希望在做法上面可以更明確然後做法上面希望可以更積極\n\n02:52.174 --> 03:11.047\n那當然這個議題我們就先講到這邊那接下來當然我們也還是持續的想要來跟這個主委討論到關於我們退伏會在這個軍民專長轉嫌的這個問題主委下面一張主委我不知道你有沒有看過這個報導這是這段時間這個天下雜誌那他講了一個說美國的企業在大搶軍人我不知道主委有沒有看過這個報導\n\n03:23.406 --> 03:31.431\n我在媒體上有看過有看過那一樣想問主委你覺得為什麼美國的企業搶著招募退伍軍人為什麼\n\n03:34.332 --> 03:54.635\n因為軍人的忠誠度比較高而且管理能力也比較強但我們看到這些報導是參考我們看到其實剛剛在講到說報導裡面說到美國退伍軍人其實他們用一個詞叫做是企業搶著挖角的人才金礦\n\n03:56.036 --> 04:09.532\n所以各大現在是這個零售公司包括沃瑪包括AT&T包括美國銀行企業公司等等都搶著招募退伍軍人那其中一個很大的原因就是覺得軍人的抗壓性高而且領導力好\n\n04:11.835 --> 04:35.231\n所以他說在民間其實很少有不到25歲的年輕人就已經有三四十歲的豐富經驗這是為什麼他們很想要搶著招募這個退伍軍人的原因但我想問主委你覺得為什麼台灣的企業沒有搶著招募退伍軍人我們的情境跟美國差異在哪裡我請事業處就業處處長跟你說明\n\n04:38.993 --> 04:43.115\n委員好我是舊學監事處處長池玉蘭在這邊跟委員報告當然我們軍人長期都是在軍中服役的話他確實是跟社會是有一點隔閡的但是這幾年我要回應的是這幾年特別疫情過後我們整個國家的勞動力是欠缺的\n\n04:58.704 --> 05:00.766\n白宮百業在欠缺的過程這幾年非常多的企業主動找到我們輔導會希望我們能夠推介適任的優質的一個退伍軍人到他們的企業去服務\n\n05:13.641 --> 05:32.409\n這個所以我在這邊我想把這個問題用這個方式來表達的意思我並不是要否定退輔會不要誤會退輔會過去其實也做了很多的努力包括我其實在6月的時候我們那時候在質詢的時候其實我也看到退輔會跟國防部後來也很積極的在辦理這個跨部會\n\n05:33.469 --> 06:00.108\n成立跨部會的專案的小組甚至在10月1號的時候其實就已經訂出了實施的計畫這是我覺得我們都看到但我剛剛拿美國的狀況來講其實美國人做得到的狀況我們不一定做不到它是一個有可能可以做得到的目標的不是只是我們一直要把我們的退伍券推銷出去不是這樣子而已甚至做得好的話有可能企業自己都會想來搶人才\n\n06:01.269 --> 06:16.637\n甚至他講的很可能他不是只是把退伍軍人當作勞動力他甚至是把他作為一個有領導力有管理能力的人才可能是做得到這件事情的這是我講美國的原因但是我現在有幾個問題就是說當然我們現在看到這個\n\n06:18.157 --> 06:32.299\n在退伍會跟國防部在處理這個軍民專長轉嫌機制的時候當然這裡面我們看到幾個重要的目標第一個是協助退伍官兵克服就業的困境這當然第一個\n\n06:33.736 --> 06:55.187\n更重要我自己認為更重要是協助國軍招募官兵也就是說我們讓在招募的時候就讓大家知道你來入伍其實你的退伍以後你的就業的前景也是好的那這會更鼓勵大家願意到加入到國軍裡面這也解決我們很多國防安全上面的問題\n\n06:56.553 --> 07:21.573\n那我也看到現在你們在退伏會的會計錄和實施計畫裡面有一個軍民專長轉型運用平台我看到這個運用平台那這個運用平台裡面你們規劃了時程2024年年底是先行規劃明年五月招標然後一年半以後希望能夠去啟用然後來借接三個部會的這個職能應用平台這些東西都很好但我想問的事情是我也想提醒先提醒\n\n07:23.328 --> 07:48.786\n其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反應因為政府往往不是想得很清楚我有很多資訊平台後續要怎麼運用所以常常會造成這個所謂採購需求不明確或者是招標規格不清楚各種爭議所以變成最後可能會系統閒置這其實很多資訊平台或資訊公司也提醒所以為什麼後來行政院也公佈了採購資訊服務的作業指引\n\n07:53.018 --> 08:01.543\n接下來我要問的問題就是關於剛剛講的建制這個軍民專長轉型運用平臺現在會不會打算怎麼運用\n\n08:04.971 --> 08:16.855\n謝謝委員的指導那事實上跟委員報告我們這一段期間都已經也去很重要的去拜訪勞動部為什麼因為我們勞動部將來我這個軍人民專長轉弦的系統裡面的界階其實是勞動部的職能基準還有他一個就業百科這個相關的一個網站我們把軍人的一個專長跟他一起透過AI的技術來把它做好那個比對的\n\n08:31.880 --> 08:56.419\n處長這部分我有聽到剛剛主委其實在回覆沈博洋委員的時候也講到這個AI的資料的運用是但是我要強調技術有這個技術很好但重點是怎麼應用好跟委員報告怎麼用得上那這怎麼用得上會關乎到我們到底現在欠缺什麼事情是好所以技術的規劃要跟我們現在欠缺的事情要能夠對應得上所以處長\n\n08:58.661 --> 09:04.144\n將來我這個運用平台的系統其實我們就是現有我有一個就業服務網我會去給他擴充簡單的來講這個退出役官兵來到我們容服處的時候我們的就業服務人員一個電腦按下去他就可以知道這個退出役官兵他在過去的相關的軍中的一個專長學歷等等能夠\n\n09:24.616 --> 09:25.937\n我跟主委還是要說你們講這些規劃我都肯定\n\n09:46.796 --> 10:03.846\n但是重點我說怎麼運用跟活用的點在於我們是不是先已經理解到我們現在在整個機制上面目前有什麼不足我比方說我們最近看了一些包括在學界其實也不少相關的研究在研究這個國軍官兵退伍以後的一些就業的困難\n\n10:05.080 --> 10:24.387\n那做了幾個歸納：比方這大概是我們在參考一些相關的報告裡面看到的事情第一個他們講到執訓課程不足那說到這個執訓課程需要配合退伍時間可能選不到或者是不能選到真正想學的包括這個證照承認有限也就是這個退伍會辦的修車訓練民間保守長並不承認\n\n10:27.108 --> 10:47.995\n的報告工作機會有限等等等等這都是我們現在機制上面缺乏的事情所以我現在的意思是說我們有一個資訊的平台很好這也是我們大家之前要求的那把這事情給建立起來但我們能不能夠把後端的目前的缺乏的問題再做一次的釐清甚至後端的規劃這個後端的規劃再能夠\n\n10:50.885 --> 11:09.959\n回饋到那我們現在的資訊系統要怎麼樣子能夠更優化讓我們後端的這些不足有更多的支撐在系統平台資訊對接上面的支撐現在大家是希望是這件事所以這是要一直想強調的事情是系統有系統很好但系統不會用他就變成是死的\n\n11:11.178 --> 11:22.379\n重點是怎麼活用這還是重點所以怎麼活用的應用的方式的部分這部分可能還是希望主委這邊多費心那我們在這邊因為時間有限我這邊有幾個建議也請主委看看\n\n11:23.359 --> 11:44.318\n第一個事情是當然這個你們現在還在處在先期規劃的期間嘛這個先期規劃期間能不能夠請你們再加強包括就業就學的輔導包括如何改善執訓的內容因為執訓的內容其實就像剛才講其實是很多人都有詬病的地方目前執訓的內容不足或者是品質可能還有一些問題\n\n11:45.319 --> 12:03.760\n第一個是改善執訊的內容跟輔導的內容第二個剛剛說借接三個部會擴大執訊包括證照的認證如果證照的認證我們一直做很多證照可是民間就是不認對不起這接起來還是有困難我不管我的資訊系統怎麼建得再好都還是接不起來還是會有這個問題\n\n12:04.801 --> 12:17.734\n最後當然也希望能夠把這些系統用在國軍的招募上面也就是說強調在招募的時候就強調這是我們會給大家支持讓大家可以知道我們有做這樣子的準備我說這些事情可能是在後端的活用跟應用上面\n\n12:18.786 --> 12:44.324\n我們是不是能夠再做一些釐清那這個釐清之後可以把我們的需求再一次的回饋優惠到優化到我們的這個資訊平台上面的使用這可能相對是比較完整主委可以嗎是是可以謝謝委員他指導我們現在前端部分我們就把委員剛剛指導我們要把現況做個檢討比方說資訊剛剛講的資訊為什麼找不到他的資訊那這個系統完整是我們希望能夠把這個問題都克服讓\n\n12:45.325 --> 12:48.049\n其實我們都知道這個退伍的轉值做好其實就是某部分做好招募你做好招募其實就是現在我們\n\n13:04.088 --> 13:21.264\n整個募兵制或者是整個募兵機制非常非常重要的關鍵所以可能這裡不只是像過去所謂照顧榮民這個概念而已的事情這其實已經影響到甚至影響到我們現在的軍力我們現在的國防實力其實都是一貫連結在一起的事情\n\n13:21.644 --> 13:21.784\n謝謝委員指導\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.807,"end":23.094,"text":"主委最近大家在討論到這個關於所謂祖國的問題那賴總統其實也在國慶晚會其實也做了很清楚的釐清"},{"start":24.15,"end":39.513,"text":"那我們也看到有些人說到底誰把中華人民共和國當主國可是過去其實我們還是會在一些新聞上面其實還是在一些資料上面是看到會有一些退伍軍人那"},{"start":40.953,"end":41.033,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":65.27,"end":87.053,"text":"中華人民共和國不可能是我們的祖國我們的祖國就是中華民國尤其軍人效忠國家一定要效忠人民都不可以做這些數典忘祖的事情那主委你這邊講得很清楚我們也不希望未來再有退伍軍人在做這些相關的言論跟行為"},{"start":88.615,"end":116.493,"text":"但當然我們也都知道中共勢必還是會持續地用各種方法不管是挖泥墻角或者是各種統戰的做法來去吸引更其他的可能也不只是退伏軍人類似相關的希望大家做這種相關言行的表態那我想問一下退伏會目前有沒有什麼明確的機制或做法因為剛剛朱薇講的是你的立場那在做法上面"},{"start":117.735,"end":143.307,"text":"主委可不可以再說得更清楚一點跟委員報告我們國內的退協組織有30多個跟我們輔導會都有關係用事業為目的所以我們常常都有做聯繫把這些相關的不管人民關係條例或者是國安法以及相關的一些規範都有跟他們做一些告知一些報告然後我們在地區的農夫處"},{"start":144.808,"end":152.81,"text":"我剛才就是說你剛才其實把立場說得清楚但我們希望在做法上面可以更明確然後做法上面希望可以更積極"},{"start":172.174,"end":191.047,"text":"那當然這個議題我們就先講到這邊那接下來當然我們也還是持續的想要來跟這個主委討論到關於我們退伏會在這個軍民專長轉嫌的這個問題主委下面一張主委我不知道你有沒有看過這個報導這是這段時間這個天下雜誌那他講了一個說美國的企業在大搶軍人我不知道主委有沒有看過這個報導"},{"start":203.406,"end":211.431,"text":"我在媒體上有看過有看過那一樣想問主委你覺得為什麼美國的企業搶著招募退伍軍人為什麼"},{"start":214.332,"end":234.635,"text":"因為軍人的忠誠度比較高而且管理能力也比較強但我們看到這些報導是參考我們看到其實剛剛在講到說報導裡面說到美國退伍軍人其實他們用一個詞叫做是企業搶著挖角的人才金礦"},{"start":236.036,"end":249.532,"text":"所以各大現在是這個零售公司包括沃瑪包括AT&T包括美國銀行企業公司等等都搶著招募退伍軍人那其中一個很大的原因就是覺得軍人的抗壓性高而且領導力好"},{"start":251.835,"end":275.231,"text":"所以他說在民間其實很少有不到25歲的年輕人就已經有三四十歲的豐富經驗這是為什麼他們很想要搶著招募這個退伍軍人的原因但我想問主委你覺得為什麼台灣的企業沒有搶著招募退伍軍人我們的情境跟美國差異在哪裡我請事業處就業處處長跟你說明"},{"start":278.993,"end":283.115,"text":"委員好 我是舊學監事處處長池玉蘭在這邊跟委員報告當然我們軍人長期都是在軍中服役的話他確實是跟社會是有一點隔閡的但是這幾年我要回應的是這幾年特別疫情過後我們整個國家的勞動力是欠缺的"},{"start":298.704,"end":300.766,"text":"白宮百業在欠缺的過程這幾年非常多的企業主動找到我們輔導會希望我們能夠推介適任的優質的一個退伍軍人到他們的企業去服務"},{"start":313.641,"end":332.409,"text":"這個所以我在這邊我想把這個問題用這個方式來表達的意思我並不是要否定退輔會不要誤會退輔會過去其實也做了很多的努力包括我其實在6月的時候我們那時候在質詢的時候其實我也看到退輔會跟國防部後來也很積極的在辦理這個跨部會"},{"start":333.469,"end":360.108,"text":"成立跨部會的專案的小組甚至在10月1號的時候其實就已經訂出了實施的計畫這是我覺得我們都看到但我剛剛拿美國的狀況來講其實美國人做得到的狀況我們不一定做不到它是一個有可能可以做得到的目標的不是只是我們一直要把我們的退伍券推銷出去不是這樣子而已甚至做得好的話有可能企業自己都會想來搶人才"},{"start":361.269,"end":376.637,"text":"甚至他講的很可能他不是只是把退伍軍人當作勞動力他甚至是把他作為一個有領導力有管理能力的人才可能是做得到這件事情的這是我講美國的原因但是我現在有幾個問題就是說當然我們現在看到這個"},{"start":378.157,"end":392.299,"text":"在退伍會跟國防部在處理這個軍民專長轉嫌機制的時候當然這裡面我們看到幾個重要的目標第一個是協助退伍官兵克服就業的困境這當然第一個"},{"start":393.736,"end":415.187,"text":"更重要我自己認為更重要是協助國軍招募官兵也就是說我們讓在招募的時候就讓大家知道你來入伍其實你的退伍以後你的就業的前景也是好的那這會更鼓勵大家願意到加入到國軍裡面這也解決我們很多國防安全上面的問題"},{"start":416.553,"end":441.573,"text":"那我也看到現在你們在退伏會的會計錄和實施計畫裡面有一個軍民專長轉型運用平台我看到這個運用平台那這個運用平台裡面你們規劃了時程2024年年底是先行規劃明年五月招標然後一年半以後希望能夠去啟用然後來借接三個部會的這個職能應用平台這些東西都很好但我想問的事情是我也想提醒先提醒"},{"start":443.328,"end":468.786,"text":"其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反應因為政府往往不是想得很清楚我有很多資訊平台後續要怎麼運用所以常常會造成這個所謂採購需求不明確或者是招標規格不清楚各種爭議所以變成最後可能會系統閒置這其實很多資訊平台或資訊公司也提醒所以為什麼後來行政院也公佈了採購資訊服務的作業指引"},{"start":473.018,"end":481.543,"text":"接下來我要問的問題就是關於剛剛講的建制這個軍民專長轉型運用平臺現在會不會打算怎麼運用"},{"start":484.971,"end":496.855,"text":"謝謝委員的指導那事實上跟委員報告我們這一段期間都已經也去很重要的去拜訪勞動部為什麼因為我們勞動部將來我這個軍人民專長轉弦的系統裡面的界階其實是勞動部的職能基準還有他一個就業百科這個相關的一個網站我們把軍人的一個專長跟他一起透過AI的技術來把它做好那個比對的"},{"start":511.88,"end":536.419,"text":"處長這部分我有聽到剛剛主委其實在回覆沈博洋委員的時候也講到這個AI的資料的運用是但是我要強調技術有這個技術很好但重點是怎麼應用好跟委員報告怎麼用得上那這怎麼用得上會關乎到我們到底現在欠缺什麼事情是好所以技術的規劃要跟我們現在欠缺的事情要能夠對應得上所以處長"},{"start":538.661,"end":544.144,"text":"將來我這個運用平台的系統其實我們就是現有我有一個就業服務網我會去給他擴充簡單的來講這個退出役官兵來到我們容服處的時候我們的就業服務人員一個電腦按下去他就可以知道這個退出役官兵他在過去的相關的軍中的一個專長學歷等等能夠"},{"start":564.616,"end":565.937,"text":"我跟主委還是要說你們講這些規劃我都肯定"},{"start":586.796,"end":603.846,"text":"但是重點我說怎麼運用跟活用的點在於我們是不是先已經理解到我們現在在整個機制上面目前有什麼不足我比方說我們最近看了一些包括在學界其實也不少相關的研究在研究這個國軍官兵退伍以後的一些就業的困難"},{"start":605.08,"end":624.387,"text":"那做了幾個歸納：比方這大概是我們在參考一些相關的報告裡面看到的事情第一個他們講到執訓課程不足那說到這個執訓課程需要配合退伍時間可能選不到或者是不能選到真正想學的包括這個證照承認有限也就是這個退伍會辦的修車訓練民間保守長並不承認"},{"start":627.108,"end":647.995,"text":"的報告工作機會有限等等等等這都是我們現在機制上面缺乏的事情所以我現在的意思是說我們有一個資訊的平台很好這也是我們大家之前要求的那把這事情給建立起來但我們能不能夠把後端的目前的缺乏的問題再做一次的釐清甚至後端的規劃這個後端的規劃再能夠"},{"start":650.885,"end":669.959,"text":"回饋到那我們現在的資訊系統要怎麼樣子能夠更優化讓我們後端的這些不足有更多的支撐在系統平台資訊對接上面的支撐現在大家是希望是這件事所以這是要一直想強調的事情是系統有系統很好但系統不會用他就變成是死的"},{"start":671.178,"end":682.379,"text":"重點是怎麼活用這還是重點所以怎麼活用的應用的方式的部分這部分可能還是希望主委這邊多費心那我們在這邊因為時間有限我這邊有幾個建議也請主委看看"},{"start":683.359,"end":704.318,"text":"第一個事情是當然這個你們現在還在處在先期規劃的期間嘛這個先期規劃期間能不能夠請你們再加強包括就業就學的輔導包括如何改善執訓的內容因為執訓的內容其實就像剛才講其實是很多人都有詬病的地方目前執訓的內容不足或者是品質可能還有一些問題"},{"start":705.319,"end":723.76,"text":"第一個是改善執訊的內容跟輔導的內容第二個剛剛說借接三個部會擴大執訊包括證照的認證如果證照的認證我們一直做很多證照可是民間就是不認對不起這接起來還是有困難我不管我的資訊系統怎麼建得再好都還是接不起來還是會有這個問題"},{"start":724.801,"end":737.734,"text":"最後當然也希望能夠把這些系統用在國軍的招募上面也就是說強調在招募的時候就強調這是我們會給大家支持讓大家可以知道我們有做這樣子的準備我說這些事情可能是在後端的活用跟應用上面"},{"start":738.786,"end":764.324,"text":"我們是不是能夠再做一些釐清那這個釐清之後可以把我們的需求再一次的回饋優惠到優化到我們的這個資訊平台上面的使用這可能相對是比較完整主委可以嗎是是可以謝謝委員他指導我們現在前端部分我們就把委員剛剛指導我們要把現況做個檢討比方說資訊剛剛講的資訊為什麼找不到他的資訊那這個系統完整是我們希望能夠把這個問題都克服讓"},{"start":765.325,"end":768.049,"text":"其實我們都知道這個退伍的轉值做好其實就是某部分做好招募你做好招募其實就是現在我們"},{"start":784.088,"end":801.264,"text":"整個募兵制或者是整個募兵機制非常非常重要的關鍵所以可能這裡不只是像過去所謂照顧榮民這個概念而已的事情這其實已經影響到甚至影響到我們現在的軍力我們現在的國防實力其實都是一貫連結在一起的事情"},{"start":801.644,"end":801.784,"text":"謝謝委員指導"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:29:39 - 10:43:15","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155296,"gazette":{"lineno":322,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（10時29分）謝謝主席。請嚴主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：主委，最近大家討論到所謂祖國的問題，賴總統其實在國慶晚會上也做了很清楚地釐清，我們也看到有些人說，到底誰把中華人民共和國當祖國？可是過去其實我們還是會在一些新聞或是資料上面看到有些退伍軍人，就像現在在螢幕上的，可能被中共吸收或是被各種手段吸引，因而表達所謂支持和平統一、效忠祖國。在這個部分，我還是想問嚴主委，像我們有些退伍軍人這樣子的表達，你有什麼立場？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，中華人民共和國不可能是我們的祖國，我們的祖國就是中華民國，尤其軍人效忠國家，一定要效忠人民，他不可以做這些數典忘祖的事情。"],["洪委員申翰：主委，你這邊講得很清楚，我們也不希望未來退伍軍人再有這些相關的言論跟行為，當然我們也都知道中共勢必還是會持續地用各種方法，不管是挖你牆角或者是各種統戰的作法來去吸引其他人，可能也不只是退伍軍人，然後希望大家做相關言行的表態。我想問退輔會，目前有沒有什麼明確的機制或作法？因為剛剛主委講的是你的立場，在作法上面，主委可不可以再說得更清楚一點？"],["嚴主任委員德發：跟委員報告，我們國內的退協組織有三十多個，跟我們輔導會都有關係，所以我們常常有做聯繫，也都有把這些不管是人民關係條例或者是國安法，以及相關的規範跟他們告知、做報告。然後我們在地區有榮服處，全省的榮服處有16個，透過這些服務照顧員到社區的時候，也會跟他們做聯繫，因為每一次過生日他們都會去報到，會跟這些退伍軍人做聯繫，也會做一些宣導、做一些說明。"],["洪委員申翰：主委，你剛才其實把立場說得很清楚，但我們希望在作法上面可以更明確，也希望作法上面可以更積極，這個議題我們就先講到這邊。","接下來，我們也持續地想要跟主委討論關於退輔會在軍民專長轉銜的問題。主委，我不知道你有沒有看過這個報導？這段時間天下雜誌報導了一則「美國企業大搶軍人」的文章，主委有沒有看過這個報導？"],["嚴主任委員德發：我在媒體上有看過。"],["洪委員申翰：我一樣想問主委，你覺得為什麼美國企業要搶著招募退伍軍人？為什麼？"],["嚴主任委員德發：因為軍人的忠誠度比較高，而且管理能力也比較強。"],["洪委員申翰：當然這些報導是參考，其實剛剛報導裡面說到，對於美國退伍軍人，他們用了一個詞叫做，是企業搶著挖角的「人才金礦」，所以各大零售公司，包括Wal-Mart、AT＆T、美國銀行、奇異公司等等都搶著招募退伍軍人，而其中一個很大的原因就是覺得軍人的抗壓性高，而且領導力好，他說在民間，很少有不到25歲的年輕人就已經有3、40歲的豐富經驗，這就是為什麼他們很想要搶著招募退伍軍人的原因。但我想問主委，你覺得為什麼臺灣的企業沒有搶著招募退伍軍人？我們的情境跟美國的差異在哪裡？"],["嚴主任委員德發：我請就業處處長跟你說明。"],["池處長玉蘭：委員好，我是就學就業處處長池玉蘭。在這邊跟委員報告，當然我們軍人長期都在軍中服役的話，他確實跟社會是有一點隔閡的，但是我要回應的是，這幾年，特別是疫情過後，我們整個國家的勞動力是欠缺的，百工百業在欠缺的過程中，這幾年非常多的企業主動找到我們輔導會，希望我們能夠推介適任、優質的退伍軍人到他們的企業去服務。"],["洪委員申翰：是。主委，我在這邊把這個問題用這個方式來表達的意思，並不是要否定退輔會，不要誤會，退輔會過去其實也做了很多努力，包括6月我在質詢的時候，其實我也看到退輔會跟國防部後來很積極地成立了跨部會的專案小組，甚至在10月1日就已經訂出了實施計畫，這是我們都看到的。但是我剛剛拿美國的狀況來講的意思是，其實美國人做得到的狀況，我們不一定做不到，它是一個有可能可以做得到的目標，不是只是我們一直要把我們的退伍軍人推銷出去，不是這樣子而已，甚至做得好的話，有可能企業自己都會想來搶人才，甚至他不只是把退伍軍人當作勞動力，甚至是把他作為一個有領導力、有管理能力的人才，可能是做得到這件事情的，這是我講美國的原因。","但是我現在有幾個問題，我們看到退輔會跟國防部在處理軍民專長轉銜機制的時候，這裡面我們看到幾個重要的目標，第一個是協助退伍官兵克服就業的困境，這當然是第一個。第二個，我自己認為更重要的是，協助國軍招募官兵，也就是說，在招募的時候就讓大家知道你來入伍，其實你退伍以後，你的就業前景是好的，這會更鼓勵大家願意加入國軍裡面，也解決我們很多國防安全上面的問題。","我也看到在退輔會的會議紀錄和實施計畫裡面有一個軍民專長轉銜運用平臺，在這個運用平臺裡面，你規劃的時程是2024年年底先期規劃，明年5月招標，一年半以後希望能夠去啟用，然後來介接三個部會的職能應用平臺。這些東西都很好，但我想先提醒，其實過去有很多資訊公司都跟行政院反映，因為政府往往不是想得很清楚，不知道他有很多資訊平臺後續要怎麼運用，所以常常會造成採購需求不明確或是招標規格不清楚等各種爭議，變成最後可能會系統閒置，這個情形很多資訊平臺或資訊公司都有提醒過，所以為什麼後來行政院公布了採購資訊服務的作業指引。接下來我要問的問題就是，關於剛剛講的建置軍民專長轉銜運用平臺，現在退輔會打算怎麼運用？"],["池處長玉蘭：謝謝委員的指導，跟委員報告，很重要的，我們這段期間都已經去拜訪了勞動部，為什麼？因為將來這個軍民專長轉銜系統裡面的介接其實是勞動部的職能基準，還有它一個就業百科相關的網站，我們把軍人的專長跟它一起透過AI的技術來做好比對的工作。"],["洪委員申翰：處長，這部分我有聽到，剛剛主委在回復沈伯洋委員的時候，也講到AI資料的運用。但是我要強調，有這個技術很好，但重點是怎麼應用、怎麼用得上？怎麼用得上會關乎到我們到底現在欠缺什麼，所以技術的規劃跟我們現在欠缺的事情要能夠對應得上。所以處長，你把它補充完。"],["池處長玉蘭：是，跟委員報告，將來這個運用平臺的系統，其實我們現在有一個就業服務網，我會去給它擴充，簡單來講，這個退除役官兵來到榮服處的時候，我們的就業服務人員用電腦一按下去，就可以知道這個退除役官兵過去在軍中的專長、學歷等等，一對出來後，就可以知道要到民間哪一些職缺，但是他欠缺了什麼樣的職能訓練或者他直接要就業的職缺上面有哪一些建議，一個電腦運用平臺都可以呈現。"],["洪委員申翰：處長、主委，我還是要說，你們講的這些規劃我都肯定，但是怎麼運用跟活用的點在於我們是不是已經先理解到，在整個機制上面目前有什麼不足？比方說，我們最近看了一些資料，包括在學界其實也有不少相關的研究，在研究國軍官兵退伍以後就業的困難，其中做了幾個歸納，這大概是我們在參考一些相關的報告裡面看到的事情，第一個，職訓課程不足，有提到這個職訓課程需要配合退伍時間，可能選不到，或是不能選到真正想學的；包括證照承認有限，也就是退輔會辦的修車訓練，民間保養廠並不承認；包括工作機會有限等等，這都是我們現在機制上面缺乏的事情。","所以我的意思是，有一個資訊的平臺很好，這也是我們大家之前要求的，把這件事情建立起來，但能不能夠把後端的、目前缺乏的問題再做一次釐清，甚至後端的規劃，這個後端的規劃再回饋到現在的資訊系統要怎麼樣能夠更優化，讓後端的這些不足有更多的支撐，在系統平臺資訊對接上面的支撐，現在大家希望的是這件事情。所以要一直強調的事情是，有系統很好，但系統不會用，它就變成是死的，重點是怎麼活用，這才是重點，所以怎麼活用、應用方式的部分，這部分還是希望主委這邊多費心。","我們在這邊因為時間有限，我這邊有幾個建議，也請主委看看，第一個事情是，當然你們現在還處在先期規劃的期間，這個先期規劃期間能不能夠請你們再加強包括就業、就學的輔導，包括如何改善職訓的內容，因為職訓的內容就像剛才講的，其實是很多人詬病的地方，目前職訓的內容不足或是品質可能還有一些問題，第一個是改善職訓的內容跟輔導的內容；第二個，剛剛提到介接三個部會、擴大職訓，包括證照的認證，如果我們一直辦理很多證照，可是民間就是不認，對不起，這接起來還是有困難，不管資訊系統建得再好，都還是接不起來，還是會有這個問題；最後當然也希望能夠把這些系統用在國軍的招募上面，也就是在招募的時候就強調，這是我們會給大家的支持，讓大家可以知道我們有做這樣的準備。我說這些事情可能是在後端的活用跟應用上面，是不是能夠再做一些釐清？這個釐清之後，可以把我們的需求再一次回饋，優化這個資訊平臺的使用，這可能相對是比較完整的，主委，可以嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，可以，謝謝委員的指導。在前端的部分，就如同委員剛剛指導的部分，我們要把現況做個檢討，比方剛剛講的資訊為什麼找不到，在系統管理部分，我們希望能夠把這些問題都克服，讓有需求的人能夠很快就找出答案來，然後將來把這樣的配置運用在司令部或者軍團、營級、連級上，讓每一個需求單位都可以很方便地使用。"],["洪委員申翰：最後我想提醒一個事情，我們都知道把退伍的轉職做好，其實某個部分就是做好招募，做好招募其實就是現在我們整個募兵制或是整個募兵機制非常、非常重要的關鍵，所以可能不只是像過去所謂照顧榮民這個概念而已，這甚至影響到我們現在的軍力、我們現在的國防實力，其實這都是一貫連結在一起的事情，所以這部分還是希望主委多費心。"],["嚴主任委員德發：是。"],["洪委員申翰：每一個環節、每一個環節，資訊系統做好這很好，可是後端的應用跟需求怎麼樣把它補強、釐清，我覺得這部分也很重要，麻煩主委多費心，謝謝。"],["嚴主任委員德發：是，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝洪申翰委員，主委請回。","接下來我們請王定宇召委上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":330,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-3","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","洪申翰","王定宇","黃仁","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","邱志偉"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00005"}}}