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\"score\": 0.09}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 631.416, \"end\": 631.436, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 631.436, \"end\": 631.556, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 631.556, \"end\": 631.576, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 631.576, \"end\": 631.596, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 639.662, \"end\": 639.802, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 639.802, \"end\": 639.902, \"score\": 0.347}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 639.902, \"end\": 639.922, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,169 --> 00:00:08,529\n謝謝主席。我們有請邱部長。委員好。部長好。部長我也要關心的是有關於這個有8家醫院放流水抗生素超標的這個問題。那現在就你們現行去管制醫院的這個一般廢棄藥品的處理流程。你剛剛也說你們其實是很嚴謹的對不對?\n\n2\n00:00:38,044 --> 00:00:52,496\n大家都有照報來嗎?都有按照SOP走嗎?醫院,我想醫院的部分在醫療會計務方面絕對是相當的按照SOP。所以?這只有對醫院的一個信心。\n\n3\n00:00:53,416 --> 00:01:16,086\n所以不會是從廢棄藥品的處理這邊過來?廢棄藥品可能擔心的以我們自己的經驗擔心的是反而是會拋棄在家裡拋棄在這邊他不會拿到醫院去丟掉然後醫院就直接送給藥局所以如果是醫院旁邊的水質有真的有超標這幾年來\n\n4\n00:01:17,927 --> 00:01:23,511\n所以你們現在就是你們研判出來的是因為病人的排泄物所造成的污染是這樣嗎\n\n5\n00:01:47,488 --> 00:01:52,712\n這是你們抓到的原因嗎?現在?所以你們現在還沒有辦法掌握確切的污染源到底是來自於哪裡?不清楚?都是用推估的對不對?\n\n6\n00:02:09,871 --> 00:02:20,105\n因為你們呈現出來這個環境部監測的數字你可以看到他是監測10家他是說8家超標那你知道其他兩家沒有超標的是哪兩家\n\n7\n00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:46,380\n為什麼他們會沒有超標?醫院應該是哪一個醫院還沒有公布?你也不知道?因為如果按照你說的是來自病人的污染物的話那各家醫院給藥的標準會不一樣嗎?會呈現你看這當中還有比如說齊美醫院他其中有一項他的這個超標值是高達3000倍跟他原來的標準值怎麼會差那麼多呢?\n\n8\n00:02:47,827 --> 00:03:03,401\n就是他好像有一些特殊性在我覺得這件事情你們真的是要用科學好好的去研究喔因為光是醫院之間的個別的差異化那就看起來有點奇怪特別是像齊美醫院他的那個平均都比較高\n\n9\n00:03:04,122 --> 00:03:22,277\n那是因為他的醫院他跟一般的民眾的這個下水道排水管是一起的嗎?他監測的那個渠道不是只有醫院嗎?是混在一起的嗎?還是這家醫院在用藥方面他有比較特殊的病人所以他的這個會比較高?我覺得這個應該要好好研究一下我光看這個數字我覺得是蠻奇怪的這應該要好好的研究好\n\n10\n00:03:26,661 --> 00:03:27,181\n目前我們是機關署跟食物鑰匙\n\n11\n00:04:03,058 --> 00:04:24,858\n而這個一般的這個百姓身上來這個對健康會產生危害喔所以你們應該要扛起這個責任因為有有有行政已經核定這個行動計畫了我們會而且有經會我們會不能等明年才開始現在當然現在就現在就要開始好不好你們計畫我看到是2025年一直都在一直都在做啊像食藥署他對於一種\n\n12\n00:04:26,139 --> 00:04:26,299\n那個標題喔\n\n13\n00:04:55,768 --> 00:05:20,381\n少子化對策計畫之成果與未來規劃結果你們在未來規劃這邊總共只有95個字非常的粗糙你們的報告裡面作為衛福部也是執行少子化非常重要的一個單位結果未來的規劃總共這麼個短我想說我是有看錯嗎95個字有這麼沒有想法嗎對於未來\n\n14\n00:05:25,612 --> 00:05:26,773\n報告委員,請你看比較前面,其實我們有四大方向在做。\n\n15\n00:05:45,853 --> 00:06:10,744\n未來規劃已經在做了比如說幼兒的專責醫師不是啊這一個題目是還有包括你未來要改善的啊以後要改善我們當然就是配合整個國家的一個行政案的一個計畫好啦部長這一個問題我也不會覺得完全是衛福部的問題但是我看到的就是目前整個少子化的問題是我們國家根本沒有一個專責單位在負責在主導\n\n16\n00:06:32,501 --> 00:06:46,289\n你們恐怕是連一個專人都沒有人在想這件事情啦我敢這樣子講因為這個就是現況嘛大家都被現況的業務都已經綁死了所以如果真的行政院想要做我覺得他現在這一套做法是行不通的\n\n17\n00:06:47,250 --> 00:07:08,801\n一年才開幾次會又沒有一個專業的執行單位過去還設一個少子化辦公室結果停掉了什麼也沒有啊那你這樣子做下去會有作為嗎沒有專人在做的事情就會是這樣大家都敷衍少子化大家都知道問題嚴重但是對各部會來講這個眼前救急比較重要未來的問題這個再說\n\n18\n00:07:11,676 --> 00:07:21,337\n所以坦白講這是行政院責無旁貸的責任但是行政院現在的架構是空的阿我就問你阿行政院是誰在負責政委喔\n\n19\n00:07:23,171 --> 00:07:46,365\n陳時中應該就是一直政委在負責然後有8個部會共同目前都在推個4大對策啦啊這個都沒有停息啦都一直在努力不要騙人了啦都沒有停息放到各部會當中都不是大家的第一優先工作啦就是這樣子啦所以難怪你的報告會寫成這樣就推給那個\n\n20\n00:07:47,546 --> 00:07:55,774\n因為也沒有人在想就國科會我們就研究出來然後看大家要怎麼做那是未來的精進我們現在比如說在0到20歲的前面照顧這件事情要花非常大的力氣我只能跟部長講絕對不是你們現在這樣子用敷衍的方式去做就做得來的\n\n21\n00:08:08,305 --> 00:08:28,764\n那這個我也要說不是衛福部你們完全的責任是行政院的責任他要給人給錢有專人有專責單位才做得出成績啦人家日本是怎麼做的我們用這套做法是完全行不通最後我問一個就是你們被監察院糾正的這個有關於特殊的兒少安置機構的問題喔\n\n22\n00:08:30,887 --> 00:08:38,278\n這個部分這個去年其實也有這個立委召開公聽會那他們要求你們要轉從這個長照的機構轉嫌到兒少機構有在做嗎\n\n23\n00:08:43,636 --> 00:09:07,028\n有進度嗎?因為時間的關係我要告訴部長的是這一件事情不是只有中央自己悶著頭做你要把機構找進來我去年在台中市擔任副市長我現在在嘉義縣跑地方地方的機構他們在經營第一線其實都非常的困難\n\n24\n00:09:08,149 --> 00:09:23,992\n所以有一些是有床也不敢開因為他也沒有人啦坦白講那中央補助的經費又是限制重重他們也缺乏彈性所以現在的現場狀況是這樣子我覺得中央機構不能無感\n\n25\n00:09:46,562 --> 00:10:15,805\n當然有些安置機構他們有問題但是安置機構也是你們的夥伴如果你沒把他視為是一個夥伴大家找來共同開會真的清他們現場第一線營運的問題是什麼棍子跟胡蘿蔔都是要的你不是一直棍子一直加鹽嗎那這樣子到時候都沒有人要來做這個業務的時候請問我們一直在增加的這一些有需求的兒少還有一些身心障礙的朋友他們要往哪裡去\n\n26\n00:10:16,545 --> 00:10:31,596\n所以這個是我自己在第一現場我看到的問題那我覺得你們好像就是設了非常多的框架地方反應你們就是都是最後都是不了了之所以我要求你們要開一個專案的檢討會議剛好這次監察院提出了糾正你們要好好的邀這一些相關的機構負責人坐下來談真的聽到問題是什麼\n\n27\n00:10:39,662 --> 00:10:39,922\n謝謝王委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6169\t8529\t謝謝主席。我們有請邱部長。委員好。部長好。部長我也要關心的是有關於這個有8家醫院放流水抗生素超標的這個問題。那現在就你們現行去管制醫院的這個一般廢棄藥品的處理流程。你剛剛也說你們其實是很嚴謹的對不對?\n38044\t52496\t大家都有照報來嗎?都有按照SOP走嗎?醫院,我想醫院的部分在醫療會計務方面絕對是相當的按照SOP。所以?這只有對醫院的一個信心。\n53416\t76086\t所以不會是從廢棄藥品的處理這邊過來?廢棄藥品可能擔心的以我們自己的經驗擔心的是反而是會拋棄在家裡拋棄在這邊他不會拿到醫院去丟掉然後醫院就直接送給藥局所以如果是醫院旁邊的水質有真的有超標這幾年來\n77927\t83511\t所以你們現在就是你們研判出來的是因為病人的排泄物所造成的污染是這樣嗎\n107488\t112712\t這是你們抓到的原因嗎?現在?所以你們現在還沒有辦法掌握確切的污染源到底是來自於哪裡?不清楚?都是用推估的對不對?\n129871\t140105\t因為你們呈現出來這個環境部監測的數字你可以看到他是監測10家他是說8家超標那你知道其他兩家沒有超標的是哪兩家\n141380\t166380\t為什麼他們會沒有超標?醫院應該是哪一個醫院還沒有公布?你也不知道?因為如果按照你說的是來自病人的污染物的話那各家醫院給藥的標準會不一樣嗎?會呈現你看這當中還有比如說齊美醫院他其中有一項他的這個超標值是高達3000倍跟他原來的標準值怎麼會差那麼多呢?\n167827\t183401\t就是他好像有一些特殊性在我覺得這件事情你們真的是要用科學好好的去研究喔因為光是醫院之間的個別的差異化那就看起來有點奇怪特別是像齊美醫院他的那個平均都比較高\n184122\t202277\t那是因為他的醫院他跟一般的民眾的這個下水道排水管是一起的嗎?他監測的那個渠道不是只有醫院嗎?是混在一起的嗎?還是這家醫院在用藥方面他有比較特殊的病人所以他的這個會比較高?我覺得這個應該要好好研究一下我光看這個數字我覺得是蠻奇怪的這應該要好好的研究好\n206661\t207181\t目前我們是機關署跟食物鑰匙\n225742\t242858\t111\n243058\t264858\t而這個一般的這個百姓身上來這個對健康會產生危害喔所以你們應該要扛起這個責任因為有有有行政已經核定這個行動計畫了我們會而且有經會我們會不能等明年才開始現在當然現在就現在就要開始好不好你們計畫我看到是2025年一直都在一直都在做啊像食藥署他對於一種\n266139\t266299\t那個標題喔\n295768\t320381\t少子化對策計畫之成果與未來規劃結果你們在未來規劃這邊總共只有95個字非常的粗糙你們的報告裡面作為衛福部也是執行少子化非常重要的一個單位結果未來的規劃總共這麼個短我想說我是有看錯嗎95個字有這麼沒有想法嗎對於未來\n325612\t326773\t報告委員,請你看比較前面,其實我們有四大方向在做。\n345853\t370744\t未來規劃已經在做了比如說幼兒的專責醫師不是啊這一個題目是還有包括你未來要改善的啊以後要改善我們當然就是配合整個國家的一個行政案的一個計畫好啦部長這一個問題我也不會覺得完全是衛福部的問題但是我看到的就是目前整個少子化的問題是我們國家根本沒有一個專責單位在負責在主導\n374684\t392381\t︎\n392501\t406289\t你們恐怕是連一個專人都沒有人在想這件事情啦我敢這樣子講因為這個就是現況嘛大家都被現況的業務都已經綁死了所以如果真的行政院想要做我覺得他現在這一套做法是行不通的\n407250\t428801\t一年才開幾次會又沒有一個專業的執行單位過去還設一個少子化辦公室結果停掉了什麼也沒有啊那你這樣子做下去會有作為嗎沒有專人在做的事情就會是這樣大家都敷衍少子化大家都知道問題嚴重但是對各部會來講這個眼前救急比較重要未來的問題這個再說\n431676\t441337\t所以坦白講這是行政院責無旁貸的責任但是行政院現在的架構是空的阿我就問你阿行政院是誰在負責政委喔\n443171\t466365\t陳時中應該就是一直政委在負責然後有8個部會共同目前都在推個4大對策啦啊這個都沒有停息啦都一直在努力不要騙人了啦都沒有停息放到各部會當中都不是大家的第一優先工作啦就是這樣子啦所以難怪你的報告會寫成這樣就推給那個\n467546\t475774\t因為也沒有人在想就國科會我們就研究出來然後看大家要怎麼做那是未來的精進我們現在比如說在0到20歲的前面照顧這件事情要花非常大的力氣我只能跟部長講絕對不是你們現在這樣子用敷衍的方式去做就做得來的\n488305\t508764\t那這個我也要說不是衛福部你們完全的責任是行政院的責任他要給人給錢有專人有專責單位才做得出成績啦人家日本是怎麼做的我們用這套做法是完全行不通最後我問一個就是你們被監察院糾正的這個有關於特殊的兒少安置機構的問題喔\n510887\t518278\t這個部分這個去年其實也有這個立委召開公聽會那他們要求你們要轉從這個長照的機構轉嫌到兒少機構有在做嗎\n523636\t547028\t有進度嗎?因為時間的關係我要告訴部長的是這一件事情不是只有中央自己悶著頭做你要把機構找進來我去年在台中市擔任副市長我現在在嘉義縣跑地方地方的機構他們在經營第一線其實都非常的困難\n548149\t563992\t所以有一些是有床也不敢開因為他也沒有人啦坦白講那中央補助的經費又是限制重重他們也缺乏彈性所以現在的現場狀況是這樣子我覺得中央機構不能無感\n564633\t586442\t﹗\n586562\t615805\t當然有些安置機構他們有問題但是安置機構也是你們的夥伴如果你沒把他視為是一個夥伴大家找來共同開會真的清他們現場第一線營運的問題是什麼棍子跟胡蘿蔔都是要的你不是一直棍子一直加鹽嗎那這樣子到時候都沒有人要來做這個業務的時候請問我們一直在增加的這一些有需求的兒少還有一些身心障礙的朋友他們要往哪裡去\n616545\t631596\t所以這個是我自己在第一現場我看到的問題那我覺得你們好像就是設了非常多的框架地方反應你們就是都是最後都是不了了之所以我要求你們要開一個專案的檢討會議剛好這次監察院提出了糾正你們要好好的邀這一些相關的機構負責人坐下來談真的聽到問題是什麼\n639662\t639922\t謝謝王委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我們有請邱部長。委員好。部長好。部長我也要關心的是有關於這個有8家醫院放流水抗生素超標的這個問題。那現在就你們現行去管制醫院的這個一般廢棄藥品的處理流程。你剛剛也說你們其實是很嚴謹的對不對?\n大家都有照報來嗎?都有按照SOP走嗎?醫院,我想醫院的部分在醫療會計務方面絕對是相當的按照SOP。所以?這只有對醫院的一個信心。\n所以不會是從廢棄藥品的處理這邊過來?廢棄藥品可能擔心的以我們自己的經驗擔心的是反而是會拋棄在家裡拋棄在這邊他不會拿到醫院去丟掉然後醫院就直接送給藥局所以如果是醫院旁邊的水質有真的有超標這幾年來\n所以你們現在就是你們研判出來的是因為病人的排泄物所造成的污染是這樣嗎\n這是你們抓到的原因嗎?現在?所以你們現在還沒有辦法掌握確切的污染源到底是來自於哪裡?不清楚?都是用推估的對不對?\n因為你們呈現出來這個環境部監測的數字你可以看到他是監測10家他是說8家超標那你知道其他兩家沒有超標的是哪兩家\n為什麼他們會沒有超標?醫院應該是哪一個醫院還沒有公布?你也不知道?因為如果按照你說的是來自病人的污染物的話那各家醫院給藥的標準會不一樣嗎?會呈現你看這當中還有比如說齊美醫院他其中有一項他的這個超標值是高達3000倍跟他原來的標準值怎麼會差那麼多呢?\n就是他好像有一些特殊性在我覺得這件事情你們真的是要用科學好好的去研究喔因為光是醫院之間的個別的差異化那就看起來有點奇怪特別是像齊美醫院他的那個平均都比較高\n那是因為他的醫院他跟一般的民眾的這個下水道排水管是一起的嗎?他監測的那個渠道不是只有醫院嗎?是混在一起的嗎?還是這家醫院在用藥方面他有比較特殊的病人所以他的這個會比較高?我覺得這個應該要好好研究一下我光看這個數字我覺得是蠻奇怪的這應該要好好的研究好\n目前我們是機關署跟食物鑰匙\n111\n而這個一般的這個百姓身上來這個對健康會產生危害喔所以你們應該要扛起這個責任因為有有有行政已經核定這個行動計畫了我們會而且有經會我們會不能等明年才開始現在當然現在就現在就要開始好不好你們計畫我看到是2025年一直都在一直都在做啊像食藥署他對於一種\n那個標題喔\n少子化對策計畫之成果與未來規劃結果你們在未來規劃這邊總共只有95個字非常的粗糙你們的報告裡面作為衛福部也是執行少子化非常重要的一個單位結果未來的規劃總共這麼個短我想說我是有看錯嗎95個字有這麼沒有想法嗎對於未來\n報告委員,請你看比較前面,其實我們有四大方向在做。\n未來規劃已經在做了比如說幼兒的專責醫師不是啊這一個題目是還有包括你未來要改善的啊以後要改善我們當然就是配合整個國家的一個行政案的一個計畫好啦部長這一個問題我也不會覺得完全是衛福部的問題但是我看到的就是目前整個少子化的問題是我們國家根本沒有一個專責單位在負責在主導\n︎\n你們恐怕是連一個專人都沒有人在想這件事情啦我敢這樣子講因為這個就是現況嘛大家都被現況的業務都已經綁死了所以如果真的行政院想要做我覺得他現在這一套做法是行不通的\n一年才開幾次會又沒有一個專業的執行單位過去還設一個少子化辦公室結果停掉了什麼也沒有啊那你這樣子做下去會有作為嗎沒有專人在做的事情就會是這樣大家都敷衍少子化大家都知道問題嚴重但是對各部會來講這個眼前救急比較重要未來的問題這個再說\n所以坦白講這是行政院責無旁貸的責任但是行政院現在的架構是空的阿我就問你阿行政院是誰在負責政委喔\n陳時中應該就是一直政委在負責然後有8個部會共同目前都在推個4大對策啦啊這個都沒有停息啦都一直在努力不要騙人了啦都沒有停息放到各部會當中都不是大家的第一優先工作啦就是這樣子啦所以難怪你的報告會寫成這樣就推給那個\n因為也沒有人在想就國科會我們就研究出來然後看大家要怎麼做那是未來的精進我們現在比如說在0到20歲的前面照顧這件事情要花非常大的力氣我只能跟部長講絕對不是你們現在這樣子用敷衍的方式去做就做得來的\n那這個我也要說不是衛福部你們完全的責任是行政院的責任他要給人給錢有專人有專責單位才做得出成績啦人家日本是怎麼做的我們用這套做法是完全行不通最後我問一個就是你們被監察院糾正的這個有關於特殊的兒少安置機構的問題喔\n這個部分這個去年其實也有這個立委召開公聽會那他們要求你們要轉從這個長照的機構轉嫌到兒少機構有在做嗎\n有進度嗎?因為時間的關係我要告訴部長的是這一件事情不是只有中央自己悶著頭做你要把機構找進來我去年在台中市擔任副市長我現在在嘉義縣跑地方地方的機構他們在經營第一線其實都非常的困難\n所以有一些是有床也不敢開因為他也沒有人啦坦白講那中央補助的經費又是限制重重他們也缺乏彈性所以現在的現場狀況是這樣子我覺得中央機構不能無感\n﹗\n當然有些安置機構他們有問題但是安置機構也是你們的夥伴如果你沒把他視為是一個夥伴大家找來共同開會真的清他們現場第一線營運的問題是什麼棍子跟胡蘿蔔都是要的你不是一直棍子一直加鹽嗎那這樣子到時候都沒有人要來做這個業務的時候請問我們一直在增加的這一些有需求的兒少還有一些身心障礙的朋友他們要往哪裡去\n所以這個是我自己在第一現場我看到的問題那我覺得你們好像就是設了非常多的框架地方反應你們就是都是最後都是不了了之所以我要求你們要開一個專案的檢討會議剛好這次監察院提出了糾正你們要好好的邀這一些相關的機構負責人坐下來談真的聽到問題是什麼\n謝謝王委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.169 --> 00:08.529\n謝謝主席。我們有請邱部長。委員好。部長好。部長我也要關心的是有關於這個有8家醫院放流水抗生素超標的這個問題。那現在就你們現行去管制醫院的這個一般廢棄藥品的處理流程。你剛剛也說你們其實是很嚴謹的對不對?\n\n00:38.044 --> 00:52.496\n大家都有照報來嗎?都有按照SOP走嗎?醫院,我想醫院的部分在醫療會計務方面絕對是相當的按照SOP。所以?這只有對醫院的一個信心。\n\n00:53.416 --> 01:16.086\n所以不會是從廢棄藥品的處理這邊過來?廢棄藥品可能擔心的以我們自己的經驗擔心的是反而是會拋棄在家裡拋棄在這邊他不會拿到醫院去丟掉然後醫院就直接送給藥局所以如果是醫院旁邊的水質有真的有超標這幾年來\n\n01:17.927 --> 01:23.511\n所以你們現在就是你們研判出來的是因為病人的排泄物所造成的污染是這樣嗎\n\n01:47.488 --> 01:52.712\n這是你們抓到的原因嗎?現在?所以你們現在還沒有辦法掌握確切的污染源到底是來自於哪裡?不清楚?都是用推估的對不對?\n\n02:09.871 --> 02:20.105\n因為你們呈現出來這個環境部監測的數字你可以看到他是監測10家他是說8家超標那你知道其他兩家沒有超標的是哪兩家\n\n02:21.380 --> 02:46.380\n為什麼他們會沒有超標?醫院應該是哪一個醫院還沒有公布?你也不知道?因為如果按照你說的是來自病人的污染物的話那各家醫院給藥的標準會不一樣嗎?會呈現你看這當中還有比如說齊美醫院他其中有一項他的這個超標值是高達3000倍跟他原來的標準值怎麼會差那麼多呢?\n\n02:47.827 --> 03:03.401\n就是他好像有一些特殊性在我覺得這件事情你們真的是要用科學好好的去研究喔因為光是醫院之間的個別的差異化那就看起來有點奇怪特別是像齊美醫院他的那個平均都比較高\n\n03:04.122 --> 03:22.277\n那是因為他的醫院他跟一般的民眾的這個下水道排水管是一起的嗎?他監測的那個渠道不是只有醫院嗎?是混在一起的嗎?還是這家醫院在用藥方面他有比較特殊的病人所以他的這個會比較高?我覺得這個應該要好好研究一下我光看這個數字我覺得是蠻奇怪的這應該要好好的研究好\n\n03:26.661 --> 03:27.181\n目前我們是機關署跟食物鑰匙\n\n04:03.058 --> 04:24.858\n而這個一般的這個百姓身上來這個對健康會產生危害喔所以你們應該要扛起這個責任因為有有有行政已經核定這個行動計畫了我們會而且有經會我們會不能等明年才開始現在當然現在就現在就要開始好不好你們計畫我看到是2025年一直都在一直都在做啊像食藥署他對於一種\n\n04:26.139 --> 04:26.299\n那個標題喔\n\n04:55.768 --> 05:20.381\n少子化對策計畫之成果與未來規劃結果你們在未來規劃這邊總共只有95個字非常的粗糙你們的報告裡面作為衛福部也是執行少子化非常重要的一個單位結果未來的規劃總共這麼個短我想說我是有看錯嗎95個字有這麼沒有想法嗎對於未來\n\n05:25.612 --> 05:26.773\n報告委員,請你看比較前面,其實我們有四大方向在做。\n\n05:45.853 --> 06:10.744\n未來規劃已經在做了比如說幼兒的專責醫師不是啊這一個題目是還有包括你未來要改善的啊以後要改善我們當然就是配合整個國家的一個行政案的一個計畫好啦部長這一個問題我也不會覺得完全是衛福部的問題但是我看到的就是目前整個少子化的問題是我們國家根本沒有一個專責單位在負責在主導\n\n06:32.501 --> 06:46.289\n你們恐怕是連一個專人都沒有人在想這件事情啦我敢這樣子講因為這個就是現況嘛大家都被現況的業務都已經綁死了所以如果真的行政院想要做我覺得他現在這一套做法是行不通的\n\n06:47.250 --> 07:08.801\n一年才開幾次會又沒有一個專業的執行單位過去還設一個少子化辦公室結果停掉了什麼也沒有啊那你這樣子做下去會有作為嗎沒有專人在做的事情就會是這樣大家都敷衍少子化大家都知道問題嚴重但是對各部會來講這個眼前救急比較重要未來的問題這個再說\n\n07:11.676 --> 07:21.337\n所以坦白講這是行政院責無旁貸的責任但是行政院現在的架構是空的阿我就問你阿行政院是誰在負責政委喔\n\n07:23.171 --> 07:46.365\n陳時中應該就是一直政委在負責然後有8個部會共同目前都在推個4大對策啦啊這個都沒有停息啦都一直在努力不要騙人了啦都沒有停息放到各部會當中都不是大家的第一優先工作啦就是這樣子啦所以難怪你的報告會寫成這樣就推給那個\n\n07:47.546 --> 07:55.774\n因為也沒有人在想就國科會我們就研究出來然後看大家要怎麼做那是未來的精進我們現在比如說在0到20歲的前面照顧這件事情要花非常大的力氣我只能跟部長講絕對不是你們現在這樣子用敷衍的方式去做就做得來的\n\n08:08.305 --> 08:28.764\n那這個我也要說不是衛福部你們完全的責任是行政院的責任他要給人給錢有專人有專責單位才做得出成績啦人家日本是怎麼做的我們用這套做法是完全行不通最後我問一個就是你們被監察院糾正的這個有關於特殊的兒少安置機構的問題喔\n\n08:30.887 --> 08:38.278\n這個部分這個去年其實也有這個立委召開公聽會那他們要求你們要轉從這個長照的機構轉嫌到兒少機構有在做嗎\n\n08:43.636 --> 09:07.028\n有進度嗎?因為時間的關係我要告訴部長的是這一件事情不是只有中央自己悶著頭做你要把機構找進來我去年在台中市擔任副市長我現在在嘉義縣跑地方地方的機構他們在經營第一線其實都非常的困難\n\n09:08.149 --> 09:23.992\n所以有一些是有床也不敢開因為他也沒有人啦坦白講那中央補助的經費又是限制重重他們也缺乏彈性所以現在的現場狀況是這樣子我覺得中央機構不能無感\n\n09:46.562 --> 10:15.805\n當然有些安置機構他們有問題但是安置機構也是你們的夥伴如果你沒把他視為是一個夥伴大家找來共同開會真的清他們現場第一線營運的問題是什麼棍子跟胡蘿蔔都是要的你不是一直棍子一直加鹽嗎那這樣子到時候都沒有人要來做這個業務的時候請問我們一直在增加的這一些有需求的兒少還有一些身心障礙的朋友他們要往哪裡去\n\n10:16.545 --> 10:31.596\n所以這個是我自己在第一現場我看到的問題那我覺得你們好像就是設了非常多的框架地方反應你們就是都是最後都是不了了之所以我要求你們要開一個專案的檢討會議剛好這次監察院提出了糾正你們要好好的邀這一些相關的機構負責人坐下來談真的聽到問題是什麼\n\n10:39.662 --> 10:39.922\n謝謝王委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.169,"end":8.529,"text":"謝謝主席。我們有請邱部長。委員好。部長好。部長我也要關心的是有關於這個有8家醫院放流水抗生素超標的這個問題。那現在就你們現行去管制醫院的這個一般廢棄藥品的處理流程。你剛剛也說你們其實是很嚴謹的對不對?"},{"start":38.044,"end":52.496,"text":"大家都有照報來嗎?都有按照SOP走嗎?醫院,我想醫院的部分在醫療會計務方面絕對是相當的按照SOP。所以?這只有對醫院的一個信心。"},{"start":53.416,"end":76.086,"text":"所以不會是從廢棄藥品的處理這邊過來?廢棄藥品可能擔心的以我們自己的經驗擔心的是反而是會拋棄在家裡拋棄在這邊他不會拿到醫院去丟掉然後醫院就直接送給藥局所以如果是醫院旁邊的水質有真的有超標這幾年來"},{"start":77.927,"end":83.511,"text":"所以你們現在就是你們研判出來的是因為病人的排泄物所造成的污染是這樣嗎"},{"start":107.488,"end":112.712,"text":"這是你們抓到的原因嗎?現在?所以你們現在還沒有辦法掌握確切的污染源到底是來自於哪裡?不清楚?都是用推估的對不對?"},{"start":129.871,"end":140.105,"text":"因為你們呈現出來這個環境部監測的數字你可以看到他是監測10家他是說8家超標那你知道其他兩家沒有超標的是哪兩家"},{"start":141.38,"end":166.38,"text":"為什麼他們會沒有超標?醫院應該是哪一個醫院還沒有公布?你也不知道?因為如果按照你說的是來自病人的污染物的話那各家醫院給藥的標準會不一樣嗎?會呈現你看這當中還有比如說齊美醫院他其中有一項他的這個超標值是高達3000倍跟他原來的標準值怎麼會差那麼多呢?"},{"start":167.827,"end":183.401,"text":"就是他好像有一些特殊性在我覺得這件事情你們真的是要用科學好好的去研究喔因為光是醫院之間的個別的差異化那就看起來有點奇怪特別是像齊美醫院他的那個平均都比較高"},{"start":184.122,"end":202.277,"text":"那是因為他的醫院他跟一般的民眾的這個下水道排水管是一起的嗎?他監測的那個渠道不是只有醫院嗎?是混在一起的嗎?還是這家醫院在用藥方面他有比較特殊的病人所以他的這個會比較高?我覺得這個應該要好好研究一下我光看這個數字我覺得是蠻奇怪的這應該要好好的研究好"},{"start":206.661,"end":207.181,"text":"目前我們是機關署跟食物鑰匙"},{"start":225.742,"end":242.858,"text":"111"},{"start":243.058,"end":264.858,"text":"而這個一般的這個百姓身上來這個對健康會產生危害喔所以你們應該要扛起這個責任因為有有有行政已經核定這個行動計畫了我們會而且有經會我們會不能等明年才開始現在當然現在就現在就要開始好不好你們計畫我看到是2025年一直都在一直都在做啊像食藥署他對於一種"},{"start":266.139,"end":266.299,"text":"那個標題喔"},{"start":295.768,"end":320.381,"text":"少子化對策計畫之成果與未來規劃結果你們在未來規劃這邊總共只有95個字非常的粗糙你們的報告裡面作為衛福部也是執行少子化非常重要的一個單位結果未來的規劃總共這麼個短我想說我是有看錯嗎95個字有這麼沒有想法嗎對於未來"},{"start":325.612,"end":326.773,"text":"報告委員,請你看比較前面,其實我們有四大方向在做。"},{"start":345.853,"end":370.744,"text":"未來規劃已經在做了比如說幼兒的專責醫師不是啊這一個題目是還有包括你未來要改善的啊以後要改善我們當然就是配合整個國家的一個行政案的一個計畫好啦部長這一個問題我也不會覺得完全是衛福部的問題但是我看到的就是目前整個少子化的問題是我們國家根本沒有一個專責單位在負責在主導"},{"start":374.684,"end":392.381,"text":" ︎"},{"start":392.501,"end":406.289,"text":"你們恐怕是連一個專人都沒有人在想這件事情啦我敢這樣子講因為這個就是現況嘛大家都被現況的業務都已經綁死了所以如果真的行政院想要做我覺得他現在這一套做法是行不通的"},{"start":407.25,"end":428.801,"text":"一年才開幾次會又沒有一個專業的執行單位過去還設一個少子化辦公室結果停掉了什麼也沒有啊那你這樣子做下去會有作為嗎沒有專人在做的事情就會是這樣大家都敷衍少子化大家都知道問題嚴重但是對各部會來講這個眼前救急比較重要未來的問題這個再說"},{"start":431.676,"end":441.337,"text":"所以坦白講這是行政院責無旁貸的責任但是行政院現在的架構是空的阿我就問你阿行政院是誰在負責政委喔"},{"start":443.171,"end":466.365,"text":"陳時中應該就是一直政委在負責然後有8個部會共同目前都在推個4大對策啦啊這個都沒有停息啦都一直在努力不要騙人了啦都沒有停息放到各部會當中都不是大家的第一優先工作啦就是這樣子啦所以難怪你的報告會寫成這樣就推給那個"},{"start":467.546,"end":475.774,"text":"因為也沒有人在想就國科會我們就研究出來然後看大家要怎麼做那是未來的精進我們現在比如說在0到20歲的前面照顧這件事情要花非常大的力氣我只能跟部長講絕對不是你們現在這樣子用敷衍的方式去做就做得來的"},{"start":488.305,"end":508.764,"text":"那這個我也要說不是衛福部你們完全的責任是行政院的責任他要給人給錢有專人有專責單位才做得出成績啦人家日本是怎麼做的我們用這套做法是完全行不通最後我問一個就是你們被監察院糾正的這個有關於特殊的兒少安置機構的問題喔"},{"start":510.887,"end":518.278,"text":"這個部分這個去年其實也有這個立委召開公聽會那他們要求你們要轉從這個長照的機構轉嫌到兒少機構有在做嗎"},{"start":523.636,"end":547.028,"text":"有進度嗎?因為時間的關係我要告訴部長的是這一件事情不是只有中央自己悶著頭做你要把機構找進來我去年在台中市擔任副市長我現在在嘉義縣跑地方地方的機構他們在經營第一線其實都非常的困難"},{"start":548.149,"end":563.992,"text":"所以有一些是有床也不敢開因為他也沒有人啦坦白講那中央補助的經費又是限制重重他們也缺乏彈性所以現在的現場狀況是這樣子我覺得中央機構不能無感"},{"start":564.633,"end":586.442,"text":"﹗"},{"start":586.562,"end":615.805,"text":"當然有些安置機構他們有問題但是安置機構也是你們的夥伴如果你沒把他視為是一個夥伴大家找來共同開會真的清他們現場第一線營運的問題是什麼棍子跟胡蘿蔔都是要的你不是一直棍子一直加鹽嗎那這樣子到時候都沒有人要來做這個業務的時候請問我們一直在增加的這一些有需求的兒少還有一些身心障礙的朋友他們要往哪裡去"},{"start":616.545,"end":631.596,"text":"所以這個是我自己在第一現場我看到的問題那我覺得你們好像就是設了非常多的框架地方反應你們就是都是最後都是不了了之所以我要求你們要開一個專案的檢討會議剛好這次監察院提出了糾正你們要好好的邀這一些相關的機構負責人坐下來談真的聽到問題是什麼"},{"start":639.662,"end":639.922,"text":"謝謝王委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:55:23 - 11:06:29","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155303,"gazette":{"lineno":541,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時55分）謝謝主席，有請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，我要關心的也是有關於8家醫院放流水抗生素超標的問題，就你們現行管制醫院一般廢棄藥品的處理流程，你剛剛也說你們其實是很嚴謹的，對不對？大家都有按照SOP走嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我想醫院在醫療廢棄物方面絕對是相當按照SOP，這是我對醫院的信心。"],["王委員育敏：所以不會是從廢棄藥品的處理這邊過來的嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：以我們自己的經驗，廢棄藥品擔心的部分反而是可能會拋棄在家裡、拋棄在周邊，它不會拿到醫院去丟掉，拿到醫院就直接送給藥局了嘛，所以如果是醫院旁邊的水質真的有超標，這幾年來我們考慮的各種原因是排泄物的沖水，所以我們現在也請環境部幫忙研究，看怎麼樣讓這樣的水質在哪個地方做化學的處理，讓抗生素不要去影響到環境。"],["王委員育敏：所以你們現在研判出來是因為病人的排泄物所造成的污染，是這樣嗎？這是你們抓到的原因嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：沒有，我不敢講就只有這個原因，因為這只是當時開會的時候有提出來要注意這個問題……"],["王委員育敏：所以你們現在還沒有掌握嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：這個可能還要再survey。"],["王委員育敏：所以你們現在也還沒有辦法掌握確切的污染源到底是來自於哪裡？不清楚，都是用推估的，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：的確是用……"],["王委員育敏：因為你們呈現出來環境部監測的數值，你可以看到，它是監測10家，結果8家超標，你知道其他兩家沒有超標的是哪兩家？為什麼他們沒有超標？"],["邱部長泰源：哪一個醫院還沒有公布。"],["王委員育敏：你也不知道？"],["邱部長泰源：對。"],["王委員育敏：好。因為如果按照你說的是來自病人的污染物的話，那各家醫院給藥的標準會不一樣嗎？你看這當中還有比如奇美醫院其中有一項的超標值是高達3,000倍，跟原來的標準值怎麼會差那麼多呢？就是這部分好像有一些特殊性在，我覺得這件事情你們真的是要用科學好好地去研究。"],["邱部長泰源：當然、當然。"],["王委員育敏：因為光是醫院之間的個別化差異，就看起來有點奇怪，特別是像奇美醫院的平均都比較高，是因為醫院跟一般民眾的下水道排水管是一起的嗎？它所監測的渠道不是只有醫院而是混在一起的嗎？還是這家醫院在用藥方面有比較特殊的病人，所以它的數值會比較高？我覺得這應該要好好研究一下，光看這個數值我覺得是蠻奇怪的。"],["邱部長泰源：是，這應該要好好地研究。"],["王委員育敏：好，我要求衛福部要儘快，雖然說你有相關計畫，但是你們自己應該要……應該是醫事司吧，是不是？這件事情是誰管理的？你應該要有一個主責單位好好地去督促整個進度。"],["邱部長泰源：目前我們是疾管署跟食藥署共同在協助這件事情。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望這一件事情你要正視，因為一旦讓抗生素流入食物鏈產生超級細菌的話，我覺得污染的就是整個環境，而且會回到我們一般的百姓身上，這對健康會產生危害，所以你們應該要扛起這個責任，要定期去……"],["邱部長泰源：因為行政院已經核定這個行動計畫，而且有經費，我們會整個……"],["王委員育敏：不能等明年才開始。"],["邱部長泰源：當然現在就要開始。"],["王委員育敏：現在就要開始，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["王委員育敏：你們的計畫我看到是在2025年，但是……"],["邱部長泰源：一直都在做，像食藥署對於抗生素的管制其實已經做很多年了，只是我們現在要檢討……"],["王委員育敏：好。另外一個面向，你也要讓醫院有參與感，譬如說，這當中超標比較高的醫院，他們也要自己去做研究，讓他們從自己提供的數值看看到底是什麼原因嘛！雙向確認嘛！好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝。","接下來，今天議題非常多，另外一個是少子化的議題。你們自己送出來的報告，部長有沒有自己看過？有個標題「少子化對策計畫之成果與未來規劃」，結果在未來規劃這邊總共只有95個字啊！非常地粗糙。作為衛福部，你們也是執行少子化對策計畫非常重要的單位，結果在你們的報告裡面，未來的規劃總字數這麼地短，我還想過我有看錯嗎？95個字！有這麼沒有想法嗎？對於未來，作為主管機關的你們是完全不知道怎麼做，是不是？然後，你們就在等，裡面都提到你們在等國科會的實證調查分析。調查沒有出來，你們就不知道該怎麼做了？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，請你看比較前面的內容，其實我們有四大方向在做……"],["王委員育敏：未來規劃？"],["邱部長泰源：不，已經在做了，譬如說幼兒的專責醫師、0到2歲的……"],["王委員育敏：不是，這個題目還包括未來要改善的啊！"],["邱部長泰源：以後要改善當然就是配合整個國家、行政院的計畫……"],["王委員育敏：好啦！部長，對於這個問題，我也不會覺得完全是衛福部的問題，但是我看到的就是目前對於整個少子化問題，我們國家根本沒有一個專責單位在負責、在主導，連你身為衛福部，可能也都講不出來是哪一個單位要負責吧！人根本不夠啊！衛福部的業務包山包海，所有業務讓大家都疲於奔命，我都知道，在這件事情上，如果要你們再積極地做未來的規劃，你們恐怕是連一個專人都沒有在想這件事情啊！我敢這樣講，因為這就是現況嘛！大家在現況業務下都已經被綁死了。所以如果行政院真的想要做，我覺得現在這套做法是行不通的，一年才開幾次會，又沒有一個專業的執行單位。過去還設了一個少子化辦公室，結果停掉了，什麼也沒有啊！那這樣做下去會有作為嗎？沒有專人在做的事情就會是這樣，大家都敷衍。對於少子化，大家都知道問題嚴重，但是對各部會來講，眼前救急比較重要，未來的問題再說。坦白講，這是行政院責無旁貸的責任，但是行政院現在的架構是空的啊！我就問你啊！行政院是誰在負責？政委喔？陳時中？"],["邱部長泰源：這一直是政委在負責，然後由八個部會共同合作，目前在推動四大對策啦！這些都沒有停息、一直在努力，有……"],["王委員育敏：不要騙人了啦！都沒有停息？放到各部會當中，都不是大家的第一優先工作啦！就是這樣子啦！難怪你們的報告會寫成這樣，因為也沒有人在想，就推給國科會啊！等研究出來就看大家要怎麼做、再看著辦。"],["邱部長泰源：沒有，那是未來的精進計畫。至於現在，譬如說對0到2歲的全面照顧、兒童健康權益保護……"],["王委員育敏：這件事情要花非常大的力氣！我只能跟部長講，絕對不是照你們現在這樣用敷衍的方式去做就做得來的。我也要說，不是衛福部你們完全的責任，而是行政院的責任，他要給錢、給人、有專人、有專責單位才做得出成績來。人家日本是怎麼做的？用我們這套做法完全行不通。","最後我問一件事，就是你們被監察院糾正關於特殊兒少安置機構的問題，對於這部分，其實去年也有立委召開公聽會。他們要求你們從長照機構轉銜到兒少機構，有在做嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：有……"],["王委員育敏：有進度嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：有關於這些兒少……"],["王委員育敏：因為時間的關係，我要告訴部長的是，這件事情不能只有中央自己悶著頭做，要把機構找進來。我去年在臺中市擔任副市長，現在在嘉義縣跑地方，地方機構在經營第一線其實都非常地困難，有一些是有床也不敢開，因為也沒有人力啦！坦白講。中央補助的經費又是限制重重，導致他們也缺乏彈性，現在的現場狀況是這樣喔！我覺得中央機構不能無感，在地方上，他們其實是人力有問題、經費也有困難，現在的管制又非常嚴格，導致有些院長不願意再多開床啊！每多開一床，他其實壓力增加、負擔也增加，而且現在所有管制都加嚴，我覺得應該換另外一種角度來思考了。當然有一些安置機構有問題，但是安置機構也是你們的夥伴，如果你們也把他們視為夥伴，就該把大家找來共同開會、真的聽他們在現場、第一線營運的問題是什麼。棍子跟胡蘿蔔都是要的，而不是一直用棍子加嚴嘛！要是這樣，等到都沒有人要來做這個業務的時候，請問這些有需求的兒少一直在增加、還有一些身心障礙朋友，他們要往哪裡去？這是我自己在第一現場看到的問題，而我覺得你們好像就是設了非常多的框架，地方反映最後都是不了了之，所以我要求你們開專案檢討會議。剛好這次監察院提出了糾正，你們要好好邀這些相關機構負責人坐下來談。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["王委員育敏：真正聽到問題是什麼，並且想辦法。對於有些可以突破的，就給足夠的資源跟人力，要不然我覺得會惡性循環，我們需要的人愈來愈多，但是願意投入這個領域提供服務的會愈來愈少，我希望部長要注意到這樣的現象。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝委員的指教，我們一定馬上進行相關的討論或開專案會議。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員、謝謝部長。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（11時6分）","繼續開會（11時20分）"],["主席：繼續開會。","請王正旭委員質詢。在黃秀芳委員發言完畢後處理臨時提案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}}