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{\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 532.691, \"end\": 532.811, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 532.811, \"end\": 532.831, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 532.831, \"end\": 532.852, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,203 --> 00:00:11,223\n吳祖偉備質詢\n\n2\n00:00:20,472 --> 00:00:44,230\n各位好,就跟剛才議員之委員一樣,我也覺得好像溝通了很多次那國科會聞風不動我也看了仔細的拜讀你們的業務報告所有的觀念都沒有改變\n\n3\n00:00:46,314 --> 00:01:09,983\n完全置之不理我還想在這個報告當中高齡研究沒有看到高齡研究沒有看到我們所溝通的相關而且你也說這個時候的溝通你們都在做我在看你們裡面有關高齡的\n\n4\n00:01:12,216 --> 00:01:14,577\n國科會應該都是科學家吧?科學家依據的是什麼?\n\n5\n00:01:36,994 --> 00:02:00,040\n政治考量：經濟考量還是事實考量：數據吧應該根據數據吧這個主委這個數據這數據你瞭解吧你知道吧我瞭解你瞭解嘛它代表什麼意義我問一下國科會現在你在制定高齡政策是在1970年的思維還是用2040年的思維\n\n6\n00:02:04,076 --> 00:02:28,762\n當然我們是要往未來去看已經在眼前那不是未來但是未來會更嚴重那也很嚴重那你看一下這一個人口問題這麼嚴重那你們當作一個科學家裡面談了半天文獎完全幾乎沒有在處理這個問題\n\n7\n00:02:29,662 --> 00:02:50,575\n我們所有科技的發展是為了全年齡層所以一定會包含壯士代那特別為了高齡像這個圖高齡的部分我們的確也有計畫在執行我看了啊我看你們的業務報告啊你除了跟10年前的這些醫療照顧之外我沒有看到任何新東西啊\n\n8\n00:02:51,636 --> 00:03:07,224\n但是我們不會只照顧特定的年齡層啦不是這個叫什麼特定不是這個特定這個特定你看過2010年上面佔百分之百分之三十六十五歲以上的人佔百分之三十叫特定這個叫特定嗎?我們健康台灣的計畫會特別為了這個\n\n9\n00:03:15,823 --> 00:03:25,605\n我講你就是活在1970年所謂特定就是1970年65歲上占人口2.9%這叫特定2040年是30.1%這叫特定嗎我們有相關的計畫高齡科技產業行動三分之一的人口在你的計畫書裡面我們的科技政策幾乎是付之缺乳\n\n10\n00:03:45,970 --> 00:03:59,558\n但是我們所有的一些科技...那這個假如說我們不會...我覺得你講這個話就讓我非常寒心不是,我們所有科技研發的計畫一定最後都會把它應用到這個年齡層,一定會有的啦一定有,但是沒有專門來應付\n\n11\n00:04:02,339 --> 00:04:02,499\n吳春城議員\n\n12\n00:04:25,427 --> 00:04:41,211\n沒有在使用網路這個是國科會的資料裡面有一個什麼叫做平台裡面沒有使用網路的250萬人一半的人沒有在使用那有在使用的另外250萬人當中在使用政府服務的數為87.5萬\n\n13\n00:04:44,992 --> 00:05:06,118\n那基本上大概就是400萬吧百分之八十沒有在使用政府沒有做這些的對這些人沒有在扶持嘛扶持的非常少嘛這個是一個事實這是你們自己的數據\n\n14\n00:05:08,963 --> 00:05:32,676\n我現在講的國客會對壯世代對高齡者你也不要聽說壯世代高齡者的人設不能只是長照你現在裡面提的就這個已經講的就是繞著醫院團團轉這樣子這個提到了這不是高齡者這個叫做撫養筆這個溝通已經溝通很多次了壓垮下一代\n\n15\n00:05:33,576 --> 00:05:34,137\n吳春城委員會主席\n\n16\n00:05:53,002 --> 00:06:15,177\n這個是引發全面性的問題這不是特定族群的問題整個內閣要一起行動起來每一個部會都要有每一個部會都要把高齡者納入主要的政策我們現在都把它當作邊陲政策預算都除了衛福部之外預算都未達1%\n\n17\n00:06:16,929 --> 00:06:34,219\n在各部會當中但是我也提到了壯世代支應了我們的預算的55%我們的稅基整個政府的預算是壯世代供應55%但是各部會提供的服務不到1%還認為說他是特定族群\n\n18\n00:06:38,064 --> 00:06:54,521\n聯合國建了一個主題叫做不要遺落任何人所有的科學家競領排在所有的都在高喊轉型正義都是不要遺落任何人而我們的國科會遺落了占三分之一人口的壯世代\n\n19\n00:06:55,595 --> 00:07:19,574\n沒有遺落沒有遺落我可以跟委員報告我在那個BTC會議結論的時候講得很清楚因為國會是以科技研發為主我們現在要把科技產業的實力讓他來怎麼樣去結合我們包含醫療的產業照護的產業都能夠讓他可以協助到不是進到醫院去的人而是一般的這個\n\n20\n00:07:21,015 --> 00:07:23,617\n臺灣未來30年最重要的問題就是人口問題高齡化少子化這問題科學家不去面對它不去解決它的話\n\n21\n00:07:48,897 --> 00:07:50,958\n我看這一期當中你有針對特定不同族群有提出你們的科技計畫\n\n22\n00:08:15,894 --> 00:08:17,901\n那是不是也可以提狀態的科技計畫可以嗎\n\n23\n00:08:21,244 --> 00:08:42,038\n對高齡者我們會再加強不管你要叫什麼可不可以提出一個他們高齡者的科技計畫是因為如果你從這個角度去想你就可以想到很多可以做的事情我們可以加強我們現在已經有計畫就是高齡科技產業行動計畫這個計畫我們未來會逐步把它擴大所以後續我會去再詢問追蹤這個事情好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n24\n00:08:50,185 --> 00:08:52,852\n謝謝吳春城委員關於請回座那我們接下來繼續進行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11203\t11223\t吳祖偉備質詢\n20472\t44230\t各位好,就跟剛才議員之委員一樣,我也覺得好像溝通了很多次那國科會聞風不動我也看了仔細的拜讀你們的業務報告所有的觀念都沒有改變\n46314\t69983\t完全置之不理我還想在這個報告當中高齡研究沒有看到高齡研究沒有看到我們所溝通的相關而且你也說這個時候的溝通你們都在做我在看你們裡面有關高齡的\n72216\t74577\t國科會應該都是科學家吧?科學家依據的是什麼?\n96994\t120040\t政治考量：經濟考量還是事實考量：數據吧應該根據數據吧這個 主委 這個數據 這數據你瞭解吧 你知道吧我瞭解你瞭解嘛 它代表什麼意義我問一下 國科會現在你在制定高齡政策 是在1970年的思維還是用2040年的思維\n124076\t148762\t當然我們是要往未來去看已經在眼前那不是未來但是未來會更嚴重那也很嚴重那你看一下這一個人口問題這麼嚴重那你們當作一個科學家裡面談了半天文獎完全幾乎沒有在處理這個問題\n149662\t170575\t我們所有科技的發展是為了全年齡層所以一定會包含壯士代那特別為了高齡像這個圖高齡的部分我們的確也有計畫在執行我看了啊我看你們的業務報告啊你除了跟10年前的這些醫療照顧之外我沒有看到任何新東西啊\n171636\t187224\t但是我們不會只照顧特定的年齡層啦不是這個叫什麼特定不是這個特定這個特定你看過2010年上面佔百分之百分之三十六十五歲以上的人佔百分之三十叫特定這個叫特定嗎?我們健康台灣的計畫會特別為了這個\n195823\t205605\t我講你就是活在1970年所謂特定就是1970年65歲上占人口2.9%這叫特定2040年是30.1%這叫特定嗎我們有相關的計畫高齡科技產業行動三分之一的人口在你的計畫書裡面我們的科技政策幾乎是付之缺乳\n225970\t239558\t但是我們所有的一些科技...那這個假如說我們不會...我覺得你講這個話就讓我非常寒心不是,我們所有科技研發的計畫一定最後都會把它應用到這個年齡層,一定會有的啦一定有,但是沒有專門來應付\n242339\t242499\t吳春城議員\n265427\t281211\t沒有在使用網路這個是國科會的資料裡面有一個什麼叫做平台裡面沒有使用網路的250萬人一半的人沒有在使用那有在使用的另外250萬人當中在使用政府服務的數為87.5萬\n284992\t306118\t那基本上大概就是400萬吧百分之八十沒有在使用政府沒有做這些的對這些人沒有在扶持嘛扶持的非常少嘛這個是一個事實這是你們自己的數據\n308963\t332676\t我現在講的國客會對壯世代對高齡者你也不要聽說壯世代高齡者的人設不能只是長照你現在裡面提的就這個已經講的就是繞著醫院團團轉這樣子這個提到了這不是高齡者這個叫做撫養筆這個溝通已經溝通很多次了壓垮下一代\n333576\t334137\t吳春城委員會主席\n353002\t375177\t這個是引發全面性的問題 這不是特定族群的問題整個內閣要一起行動起來 每一個部會都要有每一個部會都要把高齡者納入主要的政策 我們現在都把它當作邊陲政策預算都除了衛福部之外 預算都未達1%\n376929\t394219\t在各部會當中但是我也提到了壯世代支應了我們的預算的55%我們的稅基整個政府的預算是壯世代供應55%但是各部會提供的服務不到1%還認為說他是特定族群\n398064\t414521\t聯合國建了一個主題叫做不要遺落任何人所有的科學家競領排在所有的都在高喊轉型正義都是不要遺落任何人而我們的國科會遺落了占三分之一人口的壯世代\n415595\t439574\t沒有遺落沒有遺落我可以跟委員報告我在那個BTC會議結論的時候講得很清楚因為國會是以科技研發為主我們現在要把科技產業的實力讓他來怎麼樣去結合我們包含醫療的產業照護的產業都能夠讓他可以協助到不是進到醫院去的人而是一般的這個\n441015\t443617\t臺灣未來30年最重要的問題就是人口問題 高齡化 少子化 這問題科學家不去面對它 不去解決它的話\n468897\t470958\t我看這一期當中你有針對特定不同族群有提出你們的科技計畫\n495894\t497901\t那是不是也可以提狀態的科技計畫可以嗎\n501244\t522038\t對高齡者我們會再加強不管你要叫什麼可不可以提出一個他們高齡者的科技計畫是因為如果你從這個角度去想你就可以想到很多可以做的事情我們可以加強我們現在已經有計畫就是高齡科技產業行動計畫這個計畫我們未來會逐步把它擴大所以後續我會去再詢問追蹤這個事情好謝謝委員謝謝\n530185\t532852\t謝謝吳春城委員關於請回座那我們接下來繼續進行\n","txt":"吳祖偉備質詢\n各位好,就跟剛才議員之委員一樣,我也覺得好像溝通了很多次那國科會聞風不動我也看了仔細的拜讀你們的業務報告所有的觀念都沒有改變\n完全置之不理我還想在這個報告當中高齡研究沒有看到高齡研究沒有看到我們所溝通的相關而且你也說這個時候的溝通你們都在做我在看你們裡面有關高齡的\n國科會應該都是科學家吧?科學家依據的是什麼?\n政治考量：經濟考量還是事實考量：數據吧應該根據數據吧這個 主委 這個數據 這數據你瞭解吧 你知道吧我瞭解你瞭解嘛 它代表什麼意義我問一下 國科會現在你在制定高齡政策 是在1970年的思維還是用2040年的思維\n當然我們是要往未來去看已經在眼前那不是未來但是未來會更嚴重那也很嚴重那你看一下這一個人口問題這麼嚴重那你們當作一個科學家裡面談了半天文獎完全幾乎沒有在處理這個問題\n我們所有科技的發展是為了全年齡層所以一定會包含壯士代那特別為了高齡像這個圖高齡的部分我們的確也有計畫在執行我看了啊我看你們的業務報告啊你除了跟10年前的這些醫療照顧之外我沒有看到任何新東西啊\n但是我們不會只照顧特定的年齡層啦不是這個叫什麼特定不是這個特定這個特定你看過2010年上面佔百分之百分之三十六十五歲以上的人佔百分之三十叫特定這個叫特定嗎?我們健康台灣的計畫會特別為了這個\n我講你就是活在1970年所謂特定就是1970年65歲上占人口2.9%這叫特定2040年是30.1%這叫特定嗎我們有相關的計畫高齡科技產業行動三分之一的人口在你的計畫書裡面我們的科技政策幾乎是付之缺乳\n但是我們所有的一些科技...那這個假如說我們不會...我覺得你講這個話就讓我非常寒心不是,我們所有科技研發的計畫一定最後都會把它應用到這個年齡層,一定會有的啦一定有,但是沒有專門來應付\n吳春城議員\n沒有在使用網路這個是國科會的資料裡面有一個什麼叫做平台裡面沒有使用網路的250萬人一半的人沒有在使用那有在使用的另外250萬人當中在使用政府服務的數為87.5萬\n那基本上大概就是400萬吧百分之八十沒有在使用政府沒有做這些的對這些人沒有在扶持嘛扶持的非常少嘛這個是一個事實這是你們自己的數據\n我現在講的國客會對壯世代對高齡者你也不要聽說壯世代高齡者的人設不能只是長照你現在裡面提的就這個已經講的就是繞著醫院團團轉這樣子這個提到了這不是高齡者這個叫做撫養筆這個溝通已經溝通很多次了壓垮下一代\n吳春城委員會主席\n這個是引發全面性的問題 這不是特定族群的問題整個內閣要一起行動起來 每一個部會都要有每一個部會都要把高齡者納入主要的政策 我們現在都把它當作邊陲政策預算都除了衛福部之外 預算都未達1%\n在各部會當中但是我也提到了壯世代支應了我們的預算的55%我們的稅基整個政府的預算是壯世代供應55%但是各部會提供的服務不到1%還認為說他是特定族群\n聯合國建了一個主題叫做不要遺落任何人所有的科學家競領排在所有的都在高喊轉型正義都是不要遺落任何人而我們的國科會遺落了占三分之一人口的壯世代\n沒有遺落沒有遺落我可以跟委員報告我在那個BTC會議結論的時候講得很清楚因為國會是以科技研發為主我們現在要把科技產業的實力讓他來怎麼樣去結合我們包含醫療的產業照護的產業都能夠讓他可以協助到不是進到醫院去的人而是一般的這個\n臺灣未來30年最重要的問題就是人口問題 高齡化 少子化 這問題科學家不去面對它 不去解決它的話\n我看這一期當中你有針對特定不同族群有提出你們的科技計畫\n那是不是也可以提狀態的科技計畫可以嗎\n對高齡者我們會再加強不管你要叫什麼可不可以提出一個他們高齡者的科技計畫是因為如果你從這個角度去想你就可以想到很多可以做的事情我們可以加強我們現在已經有計畫就是高齡科技產業行動計畫這個計畫我們未來會逐步把它擴大所以後續我會去再詢問追蹤這個事情好謝謝委員謝謝\n謝謝吳春城委員關於請回座那我們接下來繼續進行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.203 --> 00:11.223\n吳祖偉備質詢\n\n00:20.472 --> 00:44.230\n各位好,就跟剛才議員之委員一樣,我也覺得好像溝通了很多次那國科會聞風不動我也看了仔細的拜讀你們的業務報告所有的觀念都沒有改變\n\n00:46.314 --> 01:09.983\n完全置之不理我還想在這個報告當中高齡研究沒有看到高齡研究沒有看到我們所溝通的相關而且你也說這個時候的溝通你們都在做我在看你們裡面有關高齡的\n\n01:12.216 --> 01:14.577\n國科會應該都是科學家吧?科學家依據的是什麼?\n\n01:36.994 --> 02:00.040\n政治考量：經濟考量還是事實考量：數據吧應該根據數據吧這個主委這個數據這數據你瞭解吧你知道吧我瞭解你瞭解嘛它代表什麼意義我問一下國科會現在你在制定高齡政策是在1970年的思維還是用2040年的思維\n\n02:04.076 --> 02:28.762\n當然我們是要往未來去看已經在眼前那不是未來但是未來會更嚴重那也很嚴重那你看一下這一個人口問題這麼嚴重那你們當作一個科學家裡面談了半天文獎完全幾乎沒有在處理這個問題\n\n02:29.662 --> 02:50.575\n我們所有科技的發展是為了全年齡層所以一定會包含壯士代那特別為了高齡像這個圖高齡的部分我們的確也有計畫在執行我看了啊我看你們的業務報告啊你除了跟10年前的這些醫療照顧之外我沒有看到任何新東西啊\n\n02:51.636 --> 03:07.224\n但是我們不會只照顧特定的年齡層啦不是這個叫什麼特定不是這個特定這個特定你看過2010年上面佔百分之百分之三十六十五歲以上的人佔百分之三十叫特定這個叫特定嗎?我們健康台灣的計畫會特別為了這個\n\n03:15.823 --> 03:25.605\n我講你就是活在1970年所謂特定就是1970年65歲上占人口2.9%這叫特定2040年是30.1%這叫特定嗎我們有相關的計畫高齡科技產業行動三分之一的人口在你的計畫書裡面我們的科技政策幾乎是付之缺乳\n\n03:45.970 --> 03:59.558\n但是我們所有的一些科技...那這個假如說我們不會...我覺得你講這個話就讓我非常寒心不是,我們所有科技研發的計畫一定最後都會把它應用到這個年齡層,一定會有的啦一定有,但是沒有專門來應付\n\n04:02.339 --> 04:02.499\n吳春城議員\n\n04:25.427 --> 04:41.211\n沒有在使用網路這個是國科會的資料裡面有一個什麼叫做平台裡面沒有使用網路的250萬人一半的人沒有在使用那有在使用的另外250萬人當中在使用政府服務的數為87.5萬\n\n04:44.992 --> 05:06.118\n那基本上大概就是400萬吧百分之八十沒有在使用政府沒有做這些的對這些人沒有在扶持嘛扶持的非常少嘛這個是一個事實這是你們自己的數據\n\n05:08.963 --> 05:32.676\n我現在講的國客會對壯世代對高齡者你也不要聽說壯世代高齡者的人設不能只是長照你現在裡面提的就這個已經講的就是繞著醫院團團轉這樣子這個提到了這不是高齡者這個叫做撫養筆這個溝通已經溝通很多次了壓垮下一代\n\n05:33.576 --> 05:34.137\n吳春城委員會主席\n\n05:53.002 --> 06:15.177\n這個是引發全面性的問題這不是特定族群的問題整個內閣要一起行動起來每一個部會都要有每一個部會都要把高齡者納入主要的政策我們現在都把它當作邊陲政策預算都除了衛福部之外預算都未達1%\n\n06:16.929 --> 06:34.219\n在各部會當中但是我也提到了壯世代支應了我們的預算的55%我們的稅基整個政府的預算是壯世代供應55%但是各部會提供的服務不到1%還認為說他是特定族群\n\n06:38.064 --> 06:54.521\n聯合國建了一個主題叫做不要遺落任何人所有的科學家競領排在所有的都在高喊轉型正義都是不要遺落任何人而我們的國科會遺落了占三分之一人口的壯世代\n\n06:55.595 --> 07:19.574\n沒有遺落沒有遺落我可以跟委員報告我在那個BTC會議結論的時候講得很清楚因為國會是以科技研發為主我們現在要把科技產業的實力讓他來怎麼樣去結合我們包含醫療的產業照護的產業都能夠讓他可以協助到不是進到醫院去的人而是一般的這個\n\n07:21.015 --> 07:23.617\n臺灣未來30年最重要的問題就是人口問題高齡化少子化這問題科學家不去面對它不去解決它的話\n\n07:48.897 --> 07:50.958\n我看這一期當中你有針對特定不同族群有提出你們的科技計畫\n\n08:15.894 --> 08:17.901\n那是不是也可以提狀態的科技計畫可以嗎\n\n08:21.244 --> 08:42.038\n對高齡者我們會再加強不管你要叫什麼可不可以提出一個他們高齡者的科技計畫是因為如果你從這個角度去想你就可以想到很多可以做的事情我們可以加強我們現在已經有計畫就是高齡科技產業行動計畫這個計畫我們未來會逐步把它擴大所以後續我會去再詢問追蹤這個事情好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n08:50.185 --> 08:52.852\n謝謝吳春城委員關於請回座那我們接下來繼續進行\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.203,"end":11.223,"text":"吳祖偉備質詢"},{"start":20.472,"end":44.23,"text":"各位好,就跟剛才議員之委員一樣,我也覺得好像溝通了很多次那國科會聞風不動我也看了仔細的拜讀你們的業務報告所有的觀念都沒有改變"},{"start":46.314,"end":69.983,"text":"完全置之不理我還想在這個報告當中高齡研究沒有看到高齡研究沒有看到我們所溝通的相關而且你也說這個時候的溝通你們都在做我在看你們裡面有關高齡的"},{"start":72.216,"end":74.577,"text":"國科會應該都是科學家吧?科學家依據的是什麼?"},{"start":96.994,"end":120.04,"text":"政治考量：經濟考量還是事實考量：數據吧應該根據數據吧這個 主委 這個數據 這數據你瞭解吧 你知道吧我瞭解你瞭解嘛 它代表什麼意義我問一下 國科會現在你在制定高齡政策 是在1970年的思維還是用2040年的思維"},{"start":124.076,"end":148.762,"text":"當然我們是要往未來去看已經在眼前那不是未來但是未來會更嚴重那也很嚴重那你看一下這一個人口問題這麼嚴重那你們當作一個科學家裡面談了半天文獎完全幾乎沒有在處理這個問題"},{"start":149.662,"end":170.575,"text":"我們所有科技的發展是為了全年齡層所以一定會包含壯士代那特別為了高齡像這個圖高齡的部分我們的確也有計畫在執行我看了啊我看你們的業務報告啊你除了跟10年前的這些醫療照顧之外我沒有看到任何新東西啊"},{"start":171.636,"end":187.224,"text":"但是我們不會只照顧特定的年齡層啦不是這個叫什麼特定不是這個特定這個特定你看過2010年上面佔百分之百分之三十六十五歲以上的人佔百分之三十叫特定這個叫特定嗎?我們健康台灣的計畫會特別為了這個"},{"start":195.823,"end":205.605,"text":"我講你就是活在1970年所謂特定就是1970年65歲上占人口2.9%這叫特定2040年是30.1%這叫特定嗎我們有相關的計畫高齡科技產業行動三分之一的人口在你的計畫書裡面我們的科技政策幾乎是付之缺乳"},{"start":225.97,"end":239.558,"text":"但是我們所有的一些科技...那這個假如說我們不會...我覺得你講這個話就讓我非常寒心不是,我們所有科技研發的計畫一定最後都會把它應用到這個年齡層,一定會有的啦一定有,但是沒有專門來應付"},{"start":242.339,"end":242.499,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":265.427,"end":281.211,"text":"沒有在使用網路這個是國科會的資料裡面有一個什麼叫做平台裡面沒有使用網路的250萬人一半的人沒有在使用那有在使用的另外250萬人當中在使用政府服務的數為87.5萬"},{"start":284.992,"end":306.118,"text":"那基本上大概就是400萬吧百分之八十沒有在使用政府沒有做這些的對這些人沒有在扶持嘛扶持的非常少嘛這個是一個事實這是你們自己的數據"},{"start":308.963,"end":332.676,"text":"我現在講的國客會對壯世代對高齡者你也不要聽說壯世代高齡者的人設不能只是長照你現在裡面提的就這個已經講的就是繞著醫院團團轉這樣子這個提到了這不是高齡者這個叫做撫養筆這個溝通已經溝通很多次了壓垮下一代"},{"start":333.576,"end":334.137,"text":"吳春城委員會主席"},{"start":353.002,"end":375.177,"text":"這個是引發全面性的問題 這不是特定族群的問題整個內閣要一起行動起來 每一個部會都要有每一個部會都要把高齡者納入主要的政策 我們現在都把它當作邊陲政策預算都除了衛福部之外 預算都未達1%"},{"start":376.929,"end":394.219,"text":"在各部會當中但是我也提到了壯世代支應了我們的預算的55%我們的稅基整個政府的預算是壯世代供應55%但是各部會提供的服務不到1%還認為說他是特定族群"},{"start":398.064,"end":414.521,"text":"聯合國建了一個主題叫做不要遺落任何人所有的科學家競領排在所有的都在高喊轉型正義都是不要遺落任何人而我們的國科會遺落了占三分之一人口的壯世代"},{"start":415.595,"end":439.574,"text":"沒有遺落沒有遺落我可以跟委員報告我在那個BTC會議結論的時候講得很清楚因為國會是以科技研發為主我們現在要把科技產業的實力讓他來怎麼樣去結合我們包含醫療的產業照護的產業都能夠讓他可以協助到不是進到醫院去的人而是一般的這個"},{"start":441.015,"end":443.617,"text":"臺灣未來30年最重要的問題就是人口問題 高齡化 少子化 這問題科學家不去面對它 不去解決它的話"},{"start":468.897,"end":470.958,"text":"我看這一期當中你有針對特定不同族群有提出你們的科技計畫"},{"start":495.894,"end":497.901,"text":"那是不是也可以提狀態的科技計畫可以嗎"},{"start":501.244,"end":522.038,"text":"對高齡者我們會再加強不管你要叫什麼可不可以提出一個他們高齡者的科技計畫是因為如果你從這個角度去想你就可以想到很多可以做的事情我們可以加強我們現在已經有計畫就是高齡科技產業行動計畫這個計畫我們未來會逐步把它擴大所以後續我會去再詢問追蹤這個事情好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":530.185,"end":532.852,"text":"謝謝吳春城委員關於請回座那我們接下來繼續進行"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:25:34 - 11:34:27","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155313,"gazette":{"lineno":752,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時25分）好，有請吳主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委備詢，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：吳委員好。"],["吳委員春城：主委好。就跟剛才葉元之委員一樣，我也是覺得好像溝通了很多次，國科會聞風不動，我也仔細地拜讀你們的業務報告，所有的觀念都沒有改變，完全置之不理。我還想，在這個業務報告當中沒有看到高齡研究、沒有看到我們所溝通的相關報告，而且你也說所有的溝通，你們都有在做，我在看裡面有關高齡的研究，跟十年前的東西完全都沒變，都還是一路的只有健康醫療。主委，國科會應該都是科學家吧？應該是科學家吧，對不對？國科會都是科學家。科學家依據的是什麼？政治考量、經濟考量還是事實考量？應該根據數據吧？主委，這個數據你瞭解吧？你知道吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我瞭解。"],["吳委員春城：你瞭解嘛，它代表什麼意義？我問一下，國科會現在制訂高齡政策是在1970年的思維，還是用2040年的思維？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然我們是要往未來去看。"],["吳委員春城：已經在眼前，那不是未來呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對啊，但是未來會更嚴重嘛，這個政策……"],["吳委員春城：哪有很嚴重？那你看一下啊，你看一下這一個人口問題這麼嚴重，那你們當科學家裡面談了半天，完全沒有在處理這個問題。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們所有科技的發展是為了全年齡層。"],["吳委員春城：全年齡層嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以一定會包含壯世代，而且為了高齡，像這個圖，高齡的部分我們的確也有計畫在執行。"],["吳委員春城：我看你們的業務報告，除了十年前的這些醫療照護之外，我沒有看到任何新東西啊。"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是我們不會只照顧特定的年齡層。"],["吳委員春城：這個叫什麼特定？"],["吳主任委員誠文：科技研發……"],["吳委員春城：不是。這個特定，你看2040年，上面65歲以上的人占30%，這個叫特定嗎？三分之一的人口叫特定嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們健康臺灣的計畫會特別為了這個……"],["吳委員春城：沒有……"],["吳主任委員誠文：高齡者……"],["吳委員春城：我跟你講，你就是活在1970年，所謂特定就是1970年65歲以上占人口2.9%，這叫特定。2040年是30.1%，這叫特定嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們有相關的計畫，高齡科技產業行動。"],["吳委員春城：三分之一的人口，在你的計畫書裡面，我們的科技政策幾乎是付之闕如。"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是我們所有的一些科技計畫……"],["吳委員春城：那這個叫做說我們不會？我覺得你講這種話，就讓我非常寒心。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們所有的科技研發計畫，一定最後都會把它應用到這個年齡，一定會有的啦。"],["吳委員春城：一定有，但是沒有專門的來應付……"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有特別這樣……"],["吳委員春城：什麼東西都是全民的，我有看到每一個都是有一個特定目的、特定目標的服務。"],["吳主任委員誠文：應用的部分就是顯現在健康臺灣的……"],["吳委員春城：基本上，高齡者65歲以上的現在有500萬人，這500萬人當中，沒有在使用網路，這個是國科會的資料，你們有一個平台，裡面提到沒有使用網路的有250萬人，一半的人沒有在使用，那有在使用的另外250萬人當中，有在使用數位政府服務的有87.5萬，那基本上大概就是有400萬的人，約占80%沒有在使用，政府沒有在扶持這些人，扶持得非常少嘛。好，這個是一個事實，這是你們自己的數據，那我今天也講了，國科會對壯世代、高齡者的人設不能只是長照，裡面提的，這個已經講了，就是繞著醫院團團轉，這個也提到了，這不是高齡者，這個叫做扶養比，這個已經溝通很多次了，壓垮下一代，上面大量高齡化的人，我們要拉下來，成為一個壯世代、成為一個社會的基礎，才能夠解決下一代的問題，你不解決他們的問題，下一代也沒希望了，所以這個是全面性的問題，這不是特定族群的問題，整個內閣要一起行動起來，每一個部會都要有，每一個部會都要把高齡者納入主要的政策，我們現在都把它當作邊陲政策。看一下、看一下，預算都不大，除了衛福部之外，預算都未達1%，在各部會當中，但是我也提到了，壯世代支應了我們預算的55%，我們的稅基、整個政府的預算是壯世代供應55%，但是各部會提供的服務不到1%，還認為他們是特定族群。聯合國今年有個主題叫做「不要遺落任何人」，所有的科學家都在談淨零排碳，所有的都在高喊轉型正義，都說不要遺落任何人，而我們的國科會遺落了占三分之一人口的壯世代。"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有遺落啦。"],["吳委員春城：沒有遺落？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我可以跟委員報告，我在那個BTC會議結論的時候講得很清楚，因為國科會是以科技研發為主，我們現在要思考怎麼樣把科技產業的實力結合包含醫療的產業、照護的產業，讓它都可以協助到，不是進到醫院去的人，而是一般的應用服務，我們都可以協助。"],["吳委員春城：但是我覺得你們對這部分的論述，比如說，你們提到女力科技，當你們專注到一個議題的時候，你們就規劃很多的事項，應該做的事情很多，那我也想請科學家們，這個是三分之一人口的問題，臺灣未來30年最重要的問題就是人口問題，高齡化、少子化，這個問題科學家不去面對它，不去解決它的話，對臺灣就是一場災難。"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個我們瞭解啦！所以賴總統才會有提健康臺灣這個議題出來。"],["吳委員春城：所以，其實我還是要再三表示，主委也提到了要重視這個問題嘛，就是壯世代的科技平權，我看這一期當中，你有針對特定不同族群，提出你們的科技計畫，那是不是也可以提出壯世代的科技計畫？可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對高齡者，我們會再加強這方面的承諾。"],["吳委員春城：好，可以。不管你要叫什麼，可不可以提出一個關於高齡者的科技計畫？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["吳委員春城：因為如果你從這個角度去想，你就可以想到很多可以做的事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。我們可以加強我們現在已經有的計畫，就是高齡科技產業行動計畫，這個計畫我們未來會逐步把它擴大。"],["吳委員春城：所以後續我會再詢問、追蹤這個事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，好。謝謝委員。"],["吳委員春城：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝吳春城委員。官員請回座。","我們接下來繼續進行質詢，請王定宇委員質詢。今天外委會的質詢時間是4分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","陳培瑜","張雅琳","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","范雲","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","葉元之","吳春城","王定宇","鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","羅智強","陳冠廷","張嘉郡","邱志偉"],"page_start":375,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00017"}}}