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00:00:41,789\n王委員好主委你以前是台南的PJ所以我們就只在指望時間有限PJ是投手的意思以防其他人聽不懂聽得懂第一個我們在本席在2018年19年有提出敏感科技保護法後來到2022年換屆了到第10屆上一屆的時候我們在4月份我們通過了國家安全法第3條條文相關的修正草案針對我們國家的重要科技\n\n3\n00:00:42,389 --> 00:01:03,201\n明感科技必須予以保護跟適當的管理那在2023年4月26號呢當時的國科會根據國安法修法之後的結果訂定了國家核心關鍵技術認定辦法這個部分朱一宅有嗎我宅對那後來呢拖了相當長的時間因為根據關鍵技術的認定辦法\n\n4\n00:01:07,003 --> 00:01:21,490\n每一年度要review一次要重新檢查一次因為科技與日俱增所以要來檢視所以在2024年這一個我看到你們有公布第二波清單辦理事項因為在2023年的12月5號\n\n5\n00:01:24,411 --> 00:01:42,284\n當時的國科會有公告了第一波國家核心關鍵技術項目及主管清單總計有22項裡面大概有5個主管機關牽涉到像封裝的安全啦相關的技術那我現在要提問了就是說\n\n6\n00:01:43,064 --> 00:02:02,945\n因為這有關臺灣經貿科技的優勢這跟我們臺灣變經濟有關也有關臺灣是否為自由民主世界的reliablesupplier可靠的供應者那也有關歐美盟友的關切你看美國總統大選他們有沒有談到這個當他們在管制晶片的時候\n\n7\n00:02:04,139 --> 00:02:22,302\n雖然那可能是一個謬誤他們卻認為是台灣把晶片留向不可靠的對手所以當美國的晶片法案荷蘭的光刻機日本的設備跟化材等等我第一個請教主委我們台灣第二波的核心關鍵技術項目什麼時候會出來\n\n8\n00:02:23,666 --> 00:02:48,678\n我們現在已經在請各部會提出清單當中那國科會我們自己也已經有列出一個增加的清單我有幫你去問經濟部的產業技術師在已經發文給你們提列了第二波有關電池晶片技術晶片製程等文你們有收到了嗎有有那速發部好像還沒有提報\n\n9\n00:02:50,762 --> 00:02:51,303\n目前我們還在溝通當中\n\n10\n00:03:06,107 --> 00:03:35,009\n你們的大限是12月4日嗎?原則上我們一年一定會開一次所以我們目標就是12月底我們會把審議會開完12月底喔?12月之前年底前今年一定會把審議會開了我們當時規定的是每一個年度要公布一次所以你們是以年度來算是今年底我是以你們上次公告時間是12月5日來算是12月4日沒關係我可以給你多一點時間那今年底你們要review出來的重點現在有沒有方向?\n\n11\n00:03:36,004 --> 00:03:54,265\n現在有方向,我們第一,剛剛委員有特別提醒我們跟我們的很重要的友邦以及友好國家,特別是美國我訪問了美國,訪問了德國,其實也都提到這個議題我們會特別跟他們會有一致性的看法\n\n12\n00:03:54,925 --> 00:04:20,952\n你現在講是一個很重大的事情喔一致性看法意思就是美國晶片法案所禁止的事項臺灣會列進去我們當然還要衡量我們的產業因為它包含了服務包含了資金包含了技術包含了component它全部都是有列管喔我們主要是這個國科會負責技術的部分技術部分當應用到產業的時候經濟部會把那些條件會把它加進來\n\n13\n00:04:22,511 --> 00:04:41,359\n我建議因為這一個事情是保持我們國家的競爭優勢牽涉到我們在供應鏈裡面的可信賴程度所以是重要的事它不僅是國家安全不僅是敏感科技它更是我們拼經濟非常重要一個基礎所以我個人是贊成跟主要盟友國家荷蘭的管制ASMO\n\n14\n00:04:42,279 --> 00:05:02,381\n日本最近才公布管制他們的那個機器設備我們可以有一致性的標準然後他在經濟上對我們的好處國家安全上的好處你們可以把它明列清楚讓我們國家的國人企業界能夠了解因為他主要的主力可能會來自於某一些仰賴中國市場的企業界所以可能說明說服的工作主委這邊要加強\n\n15\n00:05:03,041 --> 00:05:04,021\n王定宇執行官員請回座\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7766\t8948\t謝主席麻煩主委主委麻煩請備詢謝謝\n15011\t41789\t王委員好主委你以前是台南的PJ所以我們就只在指望時間有限PJ是投手的意思以防其他人聽不懂聽得懂第一個我們在本席在2018年19年有提出敏感科技保護法後來到2022年換屆了到第10屆上一屆的時候我們在4月份我們通過了國家安全法第3條條文相關的修正草案針對我們國家的重要科技\n42389\t63201\t明感科技必須予以保護跟適當的管理那在2023年4月26號呢當時的國科會根據國安法修法之後的結果訂定了國家核心關鍵技術認定辦法這個部分朱一宅有嗎我宅對那後來呢拖了相當長的時間因為根據關鍵技術的認定辦法\n67003\t81490\t每一年度要review一次要重新檢查一次因為科技與日俱增所以要來檢視所以在2024年這一個我看到你們有公布第二波清單辦理事項因為在2023年的12月5號\n84411\t102284\t當時的國科會有公告了第一波國家核心關鍵技術項目及主管清單總計有22項裡面大概有5個主管機關牽涉到像封裝的安全啦相關的技術那我現在要提問了就是說\n103064\t122945\t因為這有關臺灣經貿科技的優勢這跟我們臺灣變經濟有關也有關臺灣是否為自由民主世界的reliable supplier可靠的供應者那也有關歐美盟友的關切你看美國總統大選他們有沒有談到這個當他們在管制晶片的時候\n124139\t142302\t雖然那可能是一個謬誤他們卻認為是台灣把晶片留向不可靠的對手所以當美國的晶片法案荷蘭的光刻機日本的設備跟化材等等我第一個請教主委我們台灣第二波的核心關鍵技術項目什麼時候會出來\n143666\t168678\t我們現在已經在請各部會提出清單當中那國科會我們自己也已經有列出一個增加的清單我有幫你去問經濟部的產業技術師在已經發文給你們提列了第二波有關電池晶片技術晶片製程等文你們有收到了嗎有有那速發部好像還沒有提報\n170762\t171303\t目前我們還在溝通當中\n186107\t215009\t你們的大限是12月4日嗎?原則上我們一年一定會開一次所以我們目標就是12月底我們會把審議會開完12月底喔?12月之前年底前今年一定會把審議會開了我們當時規定的是每一個年度要公布一次所以你們是以年度來算是今年底我是以你們上次公告時間是12月5日來算是12月4日沒關係我可以給你多一點時間那今年底你們要review出來的重點現在有沒有方向?\n216004\t234265\t現在有方向,我們第一,剛剛委員有特別提醒我們跟我們的很重要的友邦以及友好國家,特別是美國我訪問了美國,訪問了德國,其實也都提到這個議題我們會特別跟他們會有一致性的看法\n234925\t260952\t你現在講是一個很重大的事情喔一致性看法意思就是美國晶片法案所禁止的事項臺灣會列進去我們當然還要衡量我們的產業因為它包含了服務包含了資金包含了技術包含了component它全部都是有列管喔我們主要是這個國科會負責技術的部分技術部分當應用到產業的時候經濟部會把那些條件會把它加進來\n262511\t281359\t我建議因為這一個事情是保持我們國家的競爭優勢牽涉到我們在供應鏈裡面的可信賴程度所以是重要的事它不僅是國家安全不僅是敏感科技它更是我們拼經濟非常重要一個基礎所以我個人是贊成跟主要盟友國家荷蘭的管制ASMO\n282279\t302381\t日本最近才公布管制他們的那個機器設備我們可以有一致性的標準然後他在經濟上對我們的好處國家安全上的好處你們可以把它明列清楚讓我們國家的國人企業界能夠了解因為他主要的主力可能會來自於某一些仰賴中國市場的企業界所以可能說明說服的工作主委這邊要加強\n303041\t304021\t王定宇執行官員請回座\n","txt":"謝主席麻煩主委主委麻煩請備詢謝謝\n王委員好主委你以前是台南的PJ所以我們就只在指望時間有限PJ是投手的意思以防其他人聽不懂聽得懂第一個我們在本席在2018年19年有提出敏感科技保護法後來到2022年換屆了到第10屆上一屆的時候我們在4月份我們通過了國家安全法第3條條文相關的修正草案針對我們國家的重要科技\n明感科技必須予以保護跟適當的管理那在2023年4月26號呢當時的國科會根據國安法修法之後的結果訂定了國家核心關鍵技術認定辦法這個部分朱一宅有嗎我宅對那後來呢拖了相當長的時間因為根據關鍵技術的認定辦法\n每一年度要review一次要重新檢查一次因為科技與日俱增所以要來檢視所以在2024年這一個我看到你們有公布第二波清單辦理事項因為在2023年的12月5號\n當時的國科會有公告了第一波國家核心關鍵技術項目及主管清單總計有22項裡面大概有5個主管機關牽涉到像封裝的安全啦相關的技術那我現在要提問了就是說\n因為這有關臺灣經貿科技的優勢這跟我們臺灣變經濟有關也有關臺灣是否為自由民主世界的reliable supplier可靠的供應者那也有關歐美盟友的關切你看美國總統大選他們有沒有談到這個當他們在管制晶片的時候\n雖然那可能是一個謬誤他們卻認為是台灣把晶片留向不可靠的對手所以當美國的晶片法案荷蘭的光刻機日本的設備跟化材等等我第一個請教主委我們台灣第二波的核心關鍵技術項目什麼時候會出來\n我們現在已經在請各部會提出清單當中那國科會我們自己也已經有列出一個增加的清單我有幫你去問經濟部的產業技術師在已經發文給你們提列了第二波有關電池晶片技術晶片製程等文你們有收到了嗎有有那速發部好像還沒有提報\n目前我們還在溝通當中\n你們的大限是12月4日嗎?原則上我們一年一定會開一次所以我們目標就是12月底我們會把審議會開完12月底喔?12月之前年底前今年一定會把審議會開了我們當時規定的是每一個年度要公布一次所以你們是以年度來算是今年底我是以你們上次公告時間是12月5日來算是12月4日沒關係我可以給你多一點時間那今年底你們要review出來的重點現在有沒有方向?\n現在有方向,我們第一,剛剛委員有特別提醒我們跟我們的很重要的友邦以及友好國家,特別是美國我訪問了美國,訪問了德國,其實也都提到這個議題我們會特別跟他們會有一致性的看法\n你現在講是一個很重大的事情喔一致性看法意思就是美國晶片法案所禁止的事項臺灣會列進去我們當然還要衡量我們的產業因為它包含了服務包含了資金包含了技術包含了component它全部都是有列管喔我們主要是這個國科會負責技術的部分技術部分當應用到產業的時候經濟部會把那些條件會把它加進來\n我建議因為這一個事情是保持我們國家的競爭優勢牽涉到我們在供應鏈裡面的可信賴程度所以是重要的事它不僅是國家安全不僅是敏感科技它更是我們拼經濟非常重要一個基礎所以我個人是贊成跟主要盟友國家荷蘭的管制ASMO\n日本最近才公布管制他們的那個機器設備我們可以有一致性的標準然後他在經濟上對我們的好處國家安全上的好處你們可以把它明列清楚讓我們國家的國人企業界能夠了解因為他主要的主力可能會來自於某一些仰賴中國市場的企業界所以可能說明說服的工作主委這邊要加強\n王定宇執行官員請回座\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.766 --> 00:08.948\n謝主席麻煩主委主委麻煩請備詢謝謝\n\n00:15.011 --> 00:41.789\n王委員好主委你以前是台南的PJ所以我們就只在指望時間有限PJ是投手的意思以防其他人聽不懂聽得懂第一個我們在本席在2018年19年有提出敏感科技保護法後來到2022年換屆了到第10屆上一屆的時候我們在4月份我們通過了國家安全法第3條條文相關的修正草案針對我們國家的重要科技\n\n00:42.389 --> 01:03.201\n明感科技必須予以保護跟適當的管理那在2023年4月26號呢當時的國科會根據國安法修法之後的結果訂定了國家核心關鍵技術認定辦法這個部分朱一宅有嗎我宅對那後來呢拖了相當長的時間因為根據關鍵技術的認定辦法\n\n01:07.003 --> 01:21.490\n每一年度要review一次要重新檢查一次因為科技與日俱增所以要來檢視所以在2024年這一個我看到你們有公布第二波清單辦理事項因為在2023年的12月5號\n\n01:24.411 --> 01:42.284\n當時的國科會有公告了第一波國家核心關鍵技術項目及主管清單總計有22項裡面大概有5個主管機關牽涉到像封裝的安全啦相關的技術那我現在要提問了就是說\n\n01:43.064 --> 02:02.945\n因為這有關臺灣經貿科技的優勢這跟我們臺灣變經濟有關也有關臺灣是否為自由民主世界的reliablesupplier可靠的供應者那也有關歐美盟友的關切你看美國總統大選他們有沒有談到這個當他們在管制晶片的時候\n\n02:04.139 --> 02:22.302\n雖然那可能是一個謬誤他們卻認為是台灣把晶片留向不可靠的對手所以當美國的晶片法案荷蘭的光刻機日本的設備跟化材等等我第一個請教主委我們台灣第二波的核心關鍵技術項目什麼時候會出來\n\n02:23.666 --> 02:48.678\n我們現在已經在請各部會提出清單當中那國科會我們自己也已經有列出一個增加的清單我有幫你去問經濟部的產業技術師在已經發文給你們提列了第二波有關電池晶片技術晶片製程等文你們有收到了嗎有有那速發部好像還沒有提報\n\n02:50.762 --> 02:51.303\n目前我們還在溝通當中\n\n03:06.107 --> 03:35.009\n你們的大限是12月4日嗎?原則上我們一年一定會開一次所以我們目標就是12月底我們會把審議會開完12月底喔?12月之前年底前今年一定會把審議會開了我們當時規定的是每一個年度要公布一次所以你們是以年度來算是今年底我是以你們上次公告時間是12月5日來算是12月4日沒關係我可以給你多一點時間那今年底你們要review出來的重點現在有沒有方向?\n\n03:36.004 --> 03:54.265\n現在有方向,我們第一,剛剛委員有特別提醒我們跟我們的很重要的友邦以及友好國家,特別是美國我訪問了美國,訪問了德國,其實也都提到這個議題我們會特別跟他們會有一致性的看法\n\n03:54.925 --> 04:20.952\n你現在講是一個很重大的事情喔一致性看法意思就是美國晶片法案所禁止的事項臺灣會列進去我們當然還要衡量我們的產業因為它包含了服務包含了資金包含了技術包含了component它全部都是有列管喔我們主要是這個國科會負責技術的部分技術部分當應用到產業的時候經濟部會把那些條件會把它加進來\n\n04:22.511 --> 04:41.359\n我建議因為這一個事情是保持我們國家的競爭優勢牽涉到我們在供應鏈裡面的可信賴程度所以是重要的事它不僅是國家安全不僅是敏感科技它更是我們拼經濟非常重要一個基礎所以我個人是贊成跟主要盟友國家荷蘭的管制ASMO\n\n04:42.279 --> 05:02.381\n日本最近才公布管制他們的那個機器設備我們可以有一致性的標準然後他在經濟上對我們的好處國家安全上的好處你們可以把它明列清楚讓我們國家的國人企業界能夠了解因為他主要的主力可能會來自於某一些仰賴中國市場的企業界所以可能說明說服的工作主委這邊要加強\n\n05:03.041 --> 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- 11:39:56","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155315,"gazette":{"lineno":801,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（11時34分）謝謝主席，麻煩主委。"],["主席：主委，麻煩請備詢。謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：主委，你以前是臺南的pitcher，所以我們就直來直往，時間有限。pitcher是投手的意思，以防其他人聽不懂，你聽得懂。第一個，本席在2018年、2019年提出敏感科技保護法，後來到2022年換屆，到第10屆，也就是上屆的時候，我們在4月份通過了國家安全法第三條條文相關的修正草案，針對我們國家的重要科技、敏感科技必須予以保護跟適當管理。在2023年4月26日，當時的國科會根據國安法修法之後的結果，訂定了國家核心關鍵技術認定辦法，這個部分主委知道嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我知道。"],["王委員定宇：後來拖了相當長的時間，因為根據關鍵技術的認定辦法，每一年度要review一次、要重新檢查一次，因為科技與日俱增，所以要來檢視。在2024年，我看到你們有公布第二波清單辦理事項，因為在2023年12月5日，當時國科會有公告了第一波國家核心關鍵技術項目及主管清單，總計有22項，裡面大概有5個主管機關牽涉到封裝的安全、相關的技術。那我現在要提問，因為這有關臺灣經貿科技的優勢，這跟我們臺灣拚經濟有關係，也攸關臺灣是否為自由民主世界的reliable supplier（亦即可靠的供應者），也攸關歐美盟友的關切，你看美國總統大選，他們有沒有談到這個？當他們在管制晶片的時候，雖然可能是一個謬誤的訊息，他們卻認為是臺灣把晶片流向不可靠的對手，所以當美國提出晶片法案，管制荷蘭的光刻機及日本的設備和化材以後，我第一個要請教主委的是，我們臺灣第二波的核心關鍵技術項目什麼時候會出來？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在已經在請各部會提出清單當中，國科會自己也已經有列出一個增加的清單。"],["王委員定宇：我有幫你去問，經濟部產業技術司已經發文給你們，提列了第二波有關電池、晶片技術、晶片製程等，你們有收到文了嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，有。"],["王委員定宇：數發部好像還沒有提報，目前我看到的，我自己去一個一個部會詢問，數發部提報了嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：數發部今年並沒有新的項目。"],["王委員定宇：它沒有提報嘛！那你們現在還在等哪些部會？"],["吳主任委員誠文：農業部溝通了嗎？"],["王委員定宇：來，儘速。"],["蔡處長妙慈：目前我們還在溝通當中。"],["王委員定宇：你們的大限是12月4日嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["蔡處長妙慈：原則上我們一年一定會開一次，所以我們目標就是12月底，我們會把審議會開完。"],["王委員定宇：12月底喔？"],["蔡處長妙慈：12月之前。"],["吳主任委員誠文：年底前，今年一定會把審議會開了。"],["王委員定宇：我們當時規定的是每一個年度要公布，review一次，所以你們是以年度來算是今年底？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["王委員定宇：我是以你們上次公告時間12月5日來算，算出是12月4號。沒關係，我可以給你多一點時間。那今年底你們要review出來的重點，現在有沒有方向？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在有方向。第一，剛剛委員有特別提醒，我們跟我們的重要友邦及友好國家，特別是美國，我訪問了美國、訪問了德國，其實也都提到這個議題，我們會特別跟他們有一致性的看法。"],["王委員定宇：你現在講的是一個很重大的事情喔！一致性的看法意思就是美國晶片法案所禁止的事項，臺灣會列進去。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們當然還要衡量我們的產業。"],["王委員定宇：因為包含了服務、包含了資金，包含技術，包含了components，全部都是有列管的喔。"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會主要是負責技術的部分，當技術部分應用到產業的時候，經濟部會把那些條件加進來。"],["王委員定宇：因為這一件事情是保持我們國家的競爭優勢。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["王委員定宇：牽涉到我們在供應鏈裡面的可信賴程度，重要的是，它不僅是國家安全，不僅是敏感科技，它更是我們拼經濟非常重要的一個基礎。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["王委員定宇：所以我個人是贊成跟主要盟友國家，荷蘭也管制ASML，日本最近才公布管制他們的機器設備，我們可以有一致性的標準，這在經濟上對我們的好處、對國家安全上的好處，你們可以明列清楚，讓我們國家的國人、企業界能夠瞭解，因為它主要的主力可能會來自於某一些仰賴中國市場的企業界，所以說明說服的工作可能主委這邊要加強。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員提醒，因為我們的市場、我們的產業經營的方向也要逐漸地去做一些轉移，所以跟美國的合作會加強。"],["王委員定宇：好，謝謝主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇委員質詢。官員請回座。","我們接著繼續質詢，請鍾佳濱委員質詢，時間4分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-3","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","陳培瑜","張雅琳","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","范雲","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","葉元之","吳春城","王定宇","鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","羅智強","陳冠廷","張嘉郡","邱志偉"],"page_start":375,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00017"}}}