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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 200.513, \"end\": 200.633, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 200.633, \"end\": 201.073, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 201.073, \"end\": 201.434, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 201.434, \"end\": 201.634, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"客\", \"start\": 201.634, \"end\": 201.954, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 201.954, \"end\": 202.174, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 202.174, \"end\": 202.194, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 202.85, \"end\": 222.254, \"text\": \"所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字加上因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語本來就是都是我們所使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 202.85, \"end\": 203.13, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 203.13, \"end\": 203.15, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 203.15, \"end\": 203.29, 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\"start\": 570.17, \"end\": 570.191, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,349 --> 00:00:06,074\n客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n2\n00:00:23,424 --> 00:00:44,474\n主委、我們的次長、市長大家好今天我想主要我們召委安排專報主要是針對這次臺灣台語所引起的爭議所以造成了很多不同的族群大家對於這個語言的問題有各種不同的看法那因為對於國家語言的發展\n\n3\n00:00:45,915 --> 00:01:09,810\n這個制定主要就是為了推廣多元的語言希望能夠讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留而且希望能夠多多的推廣那語言的發展非常的重要所以說很多的這個文化的傳承我想谷主委也常常都提到說很希望說客家的語言能夠好的發展也是未來明年的這個不然今年明年的重點但是呢今天建議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語\n\n4\n00:01:13,272 --> 00:01:36,237\n但是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為臺語到底代表的是真正的臺語還是臺灣的語言所以造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長這一次針對這樣子推動的政策引起蠻大的爭議請問你有什麼看法\n\n5\n00:01:37,422 --> 00:01:59,185\n跟委員報告這個語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式的提出那這個語發報告要經過行政院的核定其實也經過非常多次的各部會之間還有各員團體之間的一個溝通跟協商所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語\n\n6\n00:02:00,586 --> 00:02:24,201\n把台語當作是一個專有名詞,台語做一個專有名詞,它並不是叫做臺灣,它不等於是臺灣的語言的簡稱。對,但是呢,現在為什麼客家的族群會反彈這麼大,他就覺得這樣子其實會讓人家覺得臺語可能就是臺灣的語言,那不然就是臺灣的語言最重要的一個部分,所以說造成\n\n7\n00:02:25,322 --> 00:02:52,048\n我們再來努力共創包括說教育部的梁司長您現在幫因為我有聽到就說你們是建議優先使用就臺灣台語或臺灣原住民語臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語了在我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣了跟委員報告那其實教育部主要是因為根據行政院在剛才所講的111年的8月20號的一個\n\n8\n00:02:54,882 --> 00:03:22,194\n語法的這個決議：還有大概在文化部就是我們語言的一個專責機關他們在今年的6月20號給教育部就是希望優先使用：他們寫的是優先使用嗎：是：並不是說一定要嗎：那為什麼你們的這個查詢的網站我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語：因為他建議是在書寫上面書面的書寫上面要用優先來使用這一些不是只有臺灣台語包括臺灣客語等等\n\n9\n00:03:22,850 --> 00:03:42,254\n所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字加上因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語本來就是都是我們所使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎\n\n10\n00:03:44,815 --> 00:03:57,011\n因為我覺得看到因為我們很多都特別提到要推廣語言就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語希望能夠來推動那加了台灣這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎\n\n11\n00:04:00,957 --> 00:04:15,703\n是教育部還是文化部,怎麼樣回答?是文化部。好,是文化部,好。就是因為剛剛講呆役,它作為一個專有名詞之後,我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得\n\n12\n00:04:16,863 --> 00:04:44,842\n好像被排除在臺灣之外所以我們就會提出在名稱上面大家都是臺灣的語言目前看起來好像加了臺灣這兩個字之後反而引起更大的反彈剛剛有特別提到就是可能針對客家族群現在的反彈是最大那請問一下谷主委針對這個部分您會怎麼來去您是不是覺得這樣子是不是適當然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群會覺得說我們自己的語言沒有受到尊重\n\n13\n00:04:45,723 --> 00:04:51,767\n我希望我們能夠了解客家作為一個所屬的族群是由本人、黨的黨、共的黨、尊崇、所以客家族群\n\n14\n00:05:01,534 --> 00:05:02,094\n社會社會社會社會社會社會社會社會\n\n15\n00:05:26,508 --> 00:05:26,949\n我們目前還是在合併會在城府公安也在閩南語呼羅發\n\n16\n00:05:43,490 --> 00:05:46,692\n臺灣的合法行為所以其實有開放心建議用語是不是主委針對這些客家的族群能夠好好跟他們溝通應該要目前看起來加了臺灣這兩個字既然引起這麼大的爭議的話那臺灣台語、臺灣原住民、臺灣客語、臺灣這樣\n\n17\n00:06:09,787 --> 00:06:13,251\n我們就在臺灣為什麼還要這樣子來去做這樣子我覺得有些很大的問題應該要讀書出局應該要去唐人的書書出局上研了也要有準聰明不錯我認同好謝謝主委那曾主委你的看法呢針對這個原住民的部分\n\n18\n00:06:28,686 --> 00:06:44,193\n原住民如果這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣應該是臺灣最早的語言那曾主委的看法呢我們因為這個是很自然的我們都是給尊重各族群因為原住民我們也是臺灣原住民就是多尊重\n\n19\n00:06:45,598 --> 00:07:13,952\n對我就覺得就是加這個臺灣之後會造成這麼大的一個爭議跟困擾是不是應該我覺得教育部這邊也要再這個審視一下那另外就是我請原民會曾主委就是針對我們的這個禁法補償的經費因為就原民會沒有辦法補足這個足額的預算所導致的那請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有積極那個谷主委還有其他幾位可以請你們先回座謝謝\n\n20\n00:07:15,052 --> 00:07:41,788\n在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力的向行政院爭取跟委員報告我們今年編28.16億已經是歷年來編最多的一次那麼一直以來淨華補償的這個經費本席請教的是你有沒有積極的向行政院爭取應該是要這個淨華補償的條例有那如果你有積極爭取的話請問是誰不同意這個原民會主要編取這一個相關的預算\n\n21\n00:07:44,827 --> 00:08:12,097\n因為我們就是說希望爭取就是主席總書這邊也來幫忙那如果是這個可以試狀況我們的歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆可是你現在基金目前大概只剩不到10億已經短出了67億所以你的基金其實基本上也是不夠的金額如果因為總的基金來講\n\n22\n00:08:13,197 --> 00:08:14,659\n社會福利、經濟發展根本就沒有禁法補償的科目\n\n23\n00:08:25,595 --> 00:08:54,554\n那要怎麼使用我們的收支保管還有這個運用的辦法確實有是可以來用來是哪一條是哪一條對第6應該是第5條可以用在進法補償的條例對而且歷年來已經大概有7、8年都是這樣是不是會後請這個主委把相關的這個內容給我因為其實請曾主委要多站在我們原民的立場多想一想如果這個現在就不同意您編列這筆預算的是有誰\n\n24\n00:08:55,735 --> 00:09:24,381\n你也可以大聲說出來我們國民黨團一定做你的後盾謝謝那這部分可能麻煩一下因為現在這個禁防本土條例已經三讀通過本來就應該要編列預算那這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會不是刪除而是退回主要就是因為這本來就是應該要編列在預算裡面的支出那為什麼不編列進去如果你有很大的壓力你說這個行政院有誰不同意那我想國民黨團會做你的後盾謝謝\n\n25\n00:09:30,170 --> 00:09:30,191\n好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n349\t6074\t客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n23424\t44474\t主委、我們的次長、市長大家好今天我想主要我們召委安排專報主要是針對這次臺灣台語所引起的爭議所以造成了很多不同的族群大家對於這個語言的問題有各種不同的看法那因為對於國家語言的發展\n45915\t69810\t這個制定主要就是為了推廣多元的語言希望能夠讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留而且希望能夠多多的推廣那語言的發展非常的重要所以說很多的這個文化的傳承我想谷主委也常常都提到說很希望說客家的語言能夠好的發展也是未來明年的這個不然今年明年的重點但是呢今天建議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語\n73272\t96237\t但是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為臺語到底代表的是真正的臺語還是臺灣的語言所以造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長這一次針對這樣子推動的政策引起蠻大的爭議請問你有什麼看法\n97422\t119185\t跟委員報告這個語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式的提出那這個語發報告要經過行政院的核定其實也經過非常多次的各部會之間還有各員團體之間的一個溝通跟協商所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語\n120586\t144201\t把台語當作是一個專有名詞,台語做一個專有名詞,它並不是叫做臺灣,它不等於是臺灣的語言的簡稱。對,但是呢,現在為什麼客家的族群會反彈這麼大,他就覺得這樣子其實會讓人家覺得臺語可能就是臺灣的語言,那不然就是臺灣的語言最重要的一個部分,所以說造成\n145322\t172048\t我們再來努力共創 包括說教育部的梁司長您現在幫 因為我有聽到就說你們是建議優先使用就臺灣台語或臺灣原住民語臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語了在我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣了跟委員報告那其實教育部主要是因為根據行政院在剛才所講的111年的8月20號的一個\n174882\t202194\t語法的這個決議：還有大概在文化部就是我們語言的一個專責機關他們在今年的6月20號給教育部就是希望優先使用：他們寫的是優先使用嗎：是：並不是說一定要嗎：那為什麼你們的這個查詢的網站我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語：因為他建議是在書寫上面書面的書寫上面要用優先來使用這一些不是只有臺灣台語包括臺灣客語等等\n202850\t222254\t所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字加上因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語本來就是都是我們所使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎\n224815\t237011\t因為我覺得看到因為我們很多都特別提到要推廣語言就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語希望能夠來推動那加了台灣這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎\n240957\t255703\t是教育部還是文化部,怎麼樣回答?是文化部。好,是文化部,好。就是因為剛剛講呆役,它作為一個專有名詞之後,我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得\n256863\t284842\t好像被排除在臺灣之外所以我們就會提出在名稱上面大家都是臺灣的語言目前看起來好像加了臺灣這兩個字之後反而引起更大的反彈剛剛有特別提到就是可能針對客家族群現在的反彈是最大那請問一下谷主委針對這個部分您會怎麼來去您是不是覺得這樣子是不是適當然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群會覺得說我們自己的語言沒有受到尊重\n285723\t291767\t我希望我們能夠了解客家作為一個所屬的族群是由本人、黨的黨、共的黨、尊崇、所以客家族群\n301534\t302094\t社會社會社會社會社會社會社會社會\n326508\t326949\t我們目前還是在合併會在城府公安也在閩南語呼羅發\n343490\t346692\t臺灣的合法行為所以其實有開放心建議用語是不是主委針對這些客家的族群能夠好好跟他們溝通應該要目前看起來加了臺灣這兩個字既然引起這麼大的爭議的話那臺灣台語、臺灣原住民、臺灣客語、臺灣這樣\n369787\t373251\t我們就在臺灣為什麼還要這樣子來去做這樣子我覺得有些很大的問題應該要讀書出局應該要去唐人的書書出局上研了也要有準聰明不錯我認同好 謝謝主委那曾主委你的看法呢針對這個原住民的部分\n388686\t404193\t原住民如果這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣應該是臺灣最早的語言那曾主委的看法呢我們因為這個是很自然的我們都是給尊重各族群因為原住民我們也是臺灣原住民就是多尊重\n405598\t433952\t對 我就覺得就是加這個臺灣之後會造成這麼大的一個爭議跟困擾是不是應該我覺得教育部這邊也要再這個審視一下那另外就是我請原民會曾主委就是針對我們的這個禁法補償的經費因為就原民會沒有辦法補足這個足額的預算所導致的那請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有積極那個谷主委還有其他幾位可以請你們先回座 謝謝\n435052\t461788\t在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力的向行政院爭取跟委員報告我們今年編28.16億已經是歷年來編最多的一次那麼一直以來淨華補償的這個經費本席請教的是你有沒有積極的向行政院爭取應該是要這個淨華補償的條例有那如果你有積極爭取的話請問是誰不同意這個原民會主要編取這一個相關的預算\n464827\t492097\t因為我們就是說希望爭取就是主席總書這邊也來幫忙那如果是這個可以試狀況我們的歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆可是你現在基金目前大概只剩不到10億已經短出了67億所以你的基金其實基本上也是不夠的金額如果因為總的基金來講\n493197\t494659\t社會福利、經濟發展根本就沒有禁法補償的科目\n505595\t534554\t那要怎麼使用我們的收支保管還有這個運用的辦法確實有是可以來用來是哪一條是哪一條對第6應該是第5條可以用在進法補償的條例對而且歷年來已經大概有7、8年都是這樣是不是會後請這個主委把相關的這個內容給我因為其實請曾主委要多站在我們原民的立場多想一想如果這個現在就不同意您編列這筆預算的是有誰\n535735\t564381\t你也可以大聲說出來我們國民黨團一定做你的後盾謝謝那這部分可能麻煩一下因為現在這個禁防本土條例已經三讀通過本來就應該要編列預算那這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會不是刪除而是退回主要就是因為這本來就是應該要編列在預算裡面的支出那為什麼不編列進去如果你有很大的壓力你說這個行政院有誰不同意那我想國民黨團會做你的後盾謝謝\n570170\t570191\t好\n","txt":"客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n主委、我們的次長、市長大家好今天我想主要我們召委安排專報主要是針對這次臺灣台語所引起的爭議所以造成了很多不同的族群大家對於這個語言的問題有各種不同的看法那因為對於國家語言的發展\n這個制定主要就是為了推廣多元的語言希望能夠讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留而且希望能夠多多的推廣那語言的發展非常的重要所以說很多的這個文化的傳承我想谷主委也常常都提到說很希望說客家的語言能夠好的發展也是未來明年的這個不然今年明年的重點但是呢今天建議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語\n但是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為臺語到底代表的是真正的臺語還是臺灣的語言所以造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長這一次針對這樣子推動的政策引起蠻大的爭議請問你有什麼看法\n跟委員報告這個語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式的提出那這個語發報告要經過行政院的核定其實也經過非常多次的各部會之間還有各員團體之間的一個溝通跟協商所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語\n把台語當作是一個專有名詞,台語做一個專有名詞,它並不是叫做臺灣,它不等於是臺灣的語言的簡稱。對,但是呢,現在為什麼客家的族群會反彈這麼大,他就覺得這樣子其實會讓人家覺得臺語可能就是臺灣的語言,那不然就是臺灣的語言最重要的一個部分,所以說造成\n我們再來努力共創 包括說教育部的梁司長您現在幫 因為我有聽到就說你們是建議優先使用就臺灣台語或臺灣原住民語臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語了在我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣了跟委員報告那其實教育部主要是因為根據行政院在剛才所講的111年的8月20號的一個\n語法的這個決議：還有大概在文化部就是我們語言的一個專責機關他們在今年的6月20號給教育部就是希望優先使用：他們寫的是優先使用嗎：是：並不是說一定要嗎：那為什麼你們的這個查詢的網站我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語：因為他建議是在書寫上面書面的書寫上面要用優先來使用這一些不是只有臺灣台語包括臺灣客語等等\n所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字加上因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語本來就是都是我們所使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎\n因為我覺得看到因為我們很多都特別提到要推廣語言就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語希望能夠來推動那加了台灣這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎\n是教育部還是文化部,怎麼樣回答?是文化部。好,是文化部,好。就是因為剛剛講呆役,它作為一個專有名詞之後,我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得\n好像被排除在臺灣之外所以我們就會提出在名稱上面大家都是臺灣的語言目前看起來好像加了臺灣這兩個字之後反而引起更大的反彈剛剛有特別提到就是可能針對客家族群現在的反彈是最大那請問一下谷主委針對這個部分您會怎麼來去您是不是覺得這樣子是不是適當然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群會覺得說我們自己的語言沒有受到尊重\n我希望我們能夠了解客家作為一個所屬的族群是由本人、黨的黨、共的黨、尊崇、所以客家族群\n社會社會社會社會社會社會社會社會\n我們目前還是在合併會在城府公安也在閩南語呼羅發\n臺灣的合法行為所以其實有開放心建議用語是不是主委針對這些客家的族群能夠好好跟他們溝通應該要目前看起來加了臺灣這兩個字既然引起這麼大的爭議的話那臺灣台語、臺灣原住民、臺灣客語、臺灣這樣\n我們就在臺灣為什麼還要這樣子來去做這樣子我覺得有些很大的問題應該要讀書出局應該要去唐人的書書出局上研了也要有準聰明不錯我認同好 謝謝主委那曾主委你的看法呢針對這個原住民的部分\n原住民如果這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣應該是臺灣最早的語言那曾主委的看法呢我們因為這個是很自然的我們都是給尊重各族群因為原住民我們也是臺灣原住民就是多尊重\n對 我就覺得就是加這個臺灣之後會造成這麼大的一個爭議跟困擾是不是應該我覺得教育部這邊也要再這個審視一下那另外就是我請原民會曾主委就是針對我們的這個禁法補償的經費因為就原民會沒有辦法補足這個足額的預算所導致的那請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有積極那個谷主委還有其他幾位可以請你們先回座 謝謝\n在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力的向行政院爭取跟委員報告我們今年編28.16億已經是歷年來編最多的一次那麼一直以來淨華補償的這個經費本席請教的是你有沒有積極的向行政院爭取應該是要這個淨華補償的條例有那如果你有積極爭取的話請問是誰不同意這個原民會主要編取這一個相關的預算\n因為我們就是說希望爭取就是主席總書這邊也來幫忙那如果是這個可以試狀況我們的歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆可是你現在基金目前大概只剩不到10億已經短出了67億所以你的基金其實基本上也是不夠的金額如果因為總的基金來講\n社會福利、經濟發展根本就沒有禁法補償的科目\n那要怎麼使用我們的收支保管還有這個運用的辦法確實有是可以來用來是哪一條是哪一條對第6應該是第5條可以用在進法補償的條例對而且歷年來已經大概有7、8年都是這樣是不是會後請這個主委把相關的這個內容給我因為其實請曾主委要多站在我們原民的立場多想一想如果這個現在就不同意您編列這筆預算的是有誰\n你也可以大聲說出來我們國民黨團一定做你的後盾謝謝那這部分可能麻煩一下因為現在這個禁防本土條例已經三讀通過本來就應該要編列預算那這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會不是刪除而是退回主要就是因為這本來就是應該要編列在預算裡面的支出那為什麼不編列進去如果你有很大的壓力你說這個行政院有誰不同意那我想國民黨團會做你的後盾謝謝\n好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.349 --> 00:06.074\n客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n00:23.424 --> 00:44.474\n主委、我們的次長、市長大家好今天我想主要我們召委安排專報主要是針對這次臺灣台語所引起的爭議所以造成了很多不同的族群大家對於這個語言的問題有各種不同的看法那因為對於國家語言的發展\n\n00:45.915 --> 01:09.810\n這個制定主要就是為了推廣多元的語言希望能夠讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留而且希望能夠多多的推廣那語言的發展非常的重要所以說很多的這個文化的傳承我想谷主委也常常都提到說很希望說客家的語言能夠好的發展也是未來明年的這個不然今年明年的重點但是呢今天建議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語\n\n01:13.272 --> 01:36.237\n但是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為臺語到底代表的是真正的臺語還是臺灣的語言所以造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長這一次針對這樣子推動的政策引起蠻大的爭議請問你有什麼看法\n\n01:37.422 --> 01:59.185\n跟委員報告這個語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式的提出那這個語發報告要經過行政院的核定其實也經過非常多次的各部會之間還有各員團體之間的一個溝通跟協商所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語\n\n02:00.586 --> 02:24.201\n把台語當作是一個專有名詞,台語做一個專有名詞,它並不是叫做臺灣,它不等於是臺灣的語言的簡稱。對,但是呢,現在為什麼客家的族群會反彈這麼大,他就覺得這樣子其實會讓人家覺得臺語可能就是臺灣的語言,那不然就是臺灣的語言最重要的一個部分,所以說造成\n\n02:25.322 --> 02:52.048\n我們再來努力共創包括說教育部的梁司長您現在幫因為我有聽到就說你們是建議優先使用就臺灣台語或臺灣原住民語臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語了在我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣了跟委員報告那其實教育部主要是因為根據行政院在剛才所講的111年的8月20號的一個\n\n02:54.882 --> 03:22.194\n語法的這個決議：還有大概在文化部就是我們語言的一個專責機關他們在今年的6月20號給教育部就是希望優先使用：他們寫的是優先使用嗎：是：並不是說一定要嗎：那為什麼你們的這個查詢的網站我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語：因為他建議是在書寫上面書面的書寫上面要用優先來使用這一些不是只有臺灣台語包括臺灣客語等等\n\n03:22.850 --> 03:42.254\n所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字加上因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語本來就是都是我們所使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎\n\n03:44.815 --> 03:57.011\n因為我覺得看到因為我們很多都特別提到要推廣語言就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語希望能夠來推動那加了台灣這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎\n\n04:00.957 --> 04:15.703\n是教育部還是文化部,怎麼樣回答?是文化部。好,是文化部,好。就是因為剛剛講呆役,它作為一個專有名詞之後,我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得\n\n04:16.863 --> 04:44.842\n好像被排除在臺灣之外所以我們就會提出在名稱上面大家都是臺灣的語言目前看起來好像加了臺灣這兩個字之後反而引起更大的反彈剛剛有特別提到就是可能針對客家族群現在的反彈是最大那請問一下谷主委針對這個部分您會怎麼來去您是不是覺得這樣子是不是適當然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群會覺得說我們自己的語言沒有受到尊重\n\n04:45.723 --> 04:51.767\n我希望我們能夠了解客家作為一個所屬的族群是由本人、黨的黨、共的黨、尊崇、所以客家族群\n\n05:01.534 --> 05:02.094\n社會社會社會社會社會社會社會社會\n\n05:26.508 --> 05:26.949\n我們目前還是在合併會在城府公安也在閩南語呼羅發\n\n05:43.490 --> 05:46.692\n臺灣的合法行為所以其實有開放心建議用語是不是主委針對這些客家的族群能夠好好跟他們溝通應該要目前看起來加了臺灣這兩個字既然引起這麼大的爭議的話那臺灣台語、臺灣原住民、臺灣客語、臺灣這樣\n\n06:09.787 --> 06:13.251\n我們就在臺灣為什麼還要這樣子來去做這樣子我覺得有些很大的問題應該要讀書出局應該要去唐人的書書出局上研了也要有準聰明不錯我認同好謝謝主委那曾主委你的看法呢針對這個原住民的部分\n\n06:28.686 --> 06:44.193\n原住民如果這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣應該是臺灣最早的語言那曾主委的看法呢我們因為這個是很自然的我們都是給尊重各族群因為原住民我們也是臺灣原住民就是多尊重\n\n06:45.598 --> 07:13.952\n對我就覺得就是加這個臺灣之後會造成這麼大的一個爭議跟困擾是不是應該我覺得教育部這邊也要再這個審視一下那另外就是我請原民會曾主委就是針對我們的這個禁法補償的經費因為就原民會沒有辦法補足這個足額的預算所導致的那請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有積極那個谷主委還有其他幾位可以請你們先回座謝謝\n\n07:15.052 --> 07:41.788\n在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力的向行政院爭取跟委員報告我們今年編28.16億已經是歷年來編最多的一次那麼一直以來淨華補償的這個經費本席請教的是你有沒有積極的向行政院爭取應該是要這個淨華補償的條例有那如果你有積極爭取的話請問是誰不同意這個原民會主要編取這一個相關的預算\n\n07:44.827 --> 08:12.097\n因為我們就是說希望爭取就是主席總書這邊也來幫忙那如果是這個可以試狀況我們的歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆可是你現在基金目前大概只剩不到10億已經短出了67億所以你的基金其實基本上也是不夠的金額如果因為總的基金來講\n\n08:13.197 --> 08:14.659\n社會福利、經濟發展根本就沒有禁法補償的科目\n\n08:25.595 --> 08:54.554\n那要怎麼使用我們的收支保管還有這個運用的辦法確實有是可以來用來是哪一條是哪一條對第6應該是第5條可以用在進法補償的條例對而且歷年來已經大概有7、8年都是這樣是不是會後請這個主委把相關的這個內容給我因為其實請曾主委要多站在我們原民的立場多想一想如果這個現在就不同意您編列這筆預算的是有誰\n\n08:55.735 --> 09:24.381\n你也可以大聲說出來我們國民黨團一定做你的後盾謝謝那這部分可能麻煩一下因為現在這個禁防本土條例已經三讀通過本來就應該要編列預算那這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會不是刪除而是退回主要就是因為這本來就是應該要編列在預算裡面的支出那為什麼不編列進去如果你有很大的壓力你說這個行政院有誰不同意那我想國民黨團會做你的後盾謝謝\n\n09:30.170 --> 09:30.191\n好\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.349,"end":6.074,"text":"客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":23.424,"end":44.474,"text":"主委、我們的次長、市長大家好今天我想主要我們召委安排專報主要是針對這次臺灣台語所引起的爭議所以造成了很多不同的族群大家對於這個語言的問題有各種不同的看法那因為對於國家語言的發展"},{"start":45.915,"end":69.81,"text":"這個制定主要就是為了推廣多元的語言希望能夠讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留而且希望能夠多多的推廣那語言的發展非常的重要所以說很多的這個文化的傳承我想谷主委也常常都提到說很希望說客家的語言能夠好的發展也是未來明年的這個不然今年明年的重點但是呢今天建議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語"},{"start":73.272,"end":96.237,"text":"但是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為臺語到底代表的是真正的臺語還是臺灣的語言所以造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長這一次針對這樣子推動的政策引起蠻大的爭議請問你有什麼看法"},{"start":97.422,"end":119.185,"text":"跟委員報告這個語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式的提出那這個語發報告要經過行政院的核定其實也經過非常多次的各部會之間還有各員團體之間的一個溝通跟協商所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語"},{"start":120.586,"end":144.201,"text":"把台語當作是一個專有名詞,台語做一個專有名詞,它並不是叫做臺灣,它不等於是臺灣的語言的簡稱。對,但是呢,現在為什麼客家的族群會反彈這麼大,他就覺得這樣子其實會讓人家覺得臺語可能就是臺灣的語言,那不然就是臺灣的語言最重要的一個部分,所以說造成"},{"start":145.322,"end":172.048,"text":"我們再來努力共創 包括說教育部的梁司長您現在幫 因為我有聽到就說你們是建議優先使用就臺灣台語或臺灣原住民語臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語了在我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣了跟委員報告那其實教育部主要是因為根據行政院在剛才所講的111年的8月20號的一個"},{"start":174.882,"end":202.194,"text":"語法的這個決議：還有大概在文化部就是我們語言的一個專責機關他們在今年的6月20號給教育部就是希望優先使用：他們寫的是優先使用嗎：是：並不是說一定要嗎：那為什麼你們的這個查詢的網站我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語：因為他建議是在書寫上面書面的書寫上面要用優先來使用這一些不是只有臺灣台語包括臺灣客語等等"},{"start":202.85,"end":222.254,"text":"所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字加上因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語本來就是都是我們所使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎"},{"start":224.815,"end":237.011,"text":"因為我覺得看到因為我們很多都特別提到要推廣語言就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語希望能夠來推動那加了台灣這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎"},{"start":240.957,"end":255.703,"text":"是教育部還是文化部,怎麼樣回答?是文化部。好,是文化部,好。就是因為剛剛講呆役,它作為一個專有名詞之後,我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得"},{"start":256.863,"end":284.842,"text":"好像被排除在臺灣之外所以我們就會提出在名稱上面大家都是臺灣的語言目前看起來好像加了臺灣這兩個字之後反而引起更大的反彈剛剛有特別提到就是可能針對客家族群現在的反彈是最大那請問一下谷主委針對這個部分您會怎麼來去您是不是覺得這樣子是不是適當然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群會覺得說我們自己的語言沒有受到尊重"},{"start":285.723,"end":291.767,"text":"我希望我們能夠了解客家作為一個所屬的族群是由本人、黨的黨、共的黨、尊崇、所以客家族群"},{"start":301.534,"end":302.094,"text":"社會社會社會社會社會社會社會社會"},{"start":326.508,"end":326.949,"text":"我們目前還是在合併會在城府公安也在閩南語呼羅發"},{"start":343.49,"end":346.692,"text":"臺灣的合法行為所以其實有開放心建議用語是不是主委針對這些客家的族群能夠好好跟他們溝通應該要目前看起來加了臺灣這兩個字既然引起這麼大的爭議的話那臺灣台語、臺灣原住民、臺灣客語、臺灣這樣"},{"start":369.787,"end":373.251,"text":"我們就在臺灣為什麼還要這樣子來去做這樣子我覺得有些很大的問題應該要讀書出局應該要去唐人的書書出局上研了也要有準聰明不錯我認同好 謝謝主委那曾主委你的看法呢針對這個原住民的部分"},{"start":388.686,"end":404.193,"text":"原住民如果這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣應該是臺灣最早的語言那曾主委的看法呢我們因為這個是很自然的我們都是給尊重各族群因為原住民我們也是臺灣原住民就是多尊重"},{"start":405.598,"end":433.952,"text":"對 我就覺得就是加這個臺灣之後會造成這麼大的一個爭議跟困擾是不是應該我覺得教育部這邊也要再這個審視一下那另外就是我請原民會曾主委就是針對我們的這個禁法補償的經費因為就原民會沒有辦法補足這個足額的預算所導致的那請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有積極那個谷主委還有其他幾位可以請你們先回座 謝謝"},{"start":435.052,"end":461.788,"text":"在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力的向行政院爭取跟委員報告我們今年編28.16億已經是歷年來編最多的一次那麼一直以來淨華補償的這個經費本席請教的是你有沒有積極的向行政院爭取應該是要這個淨華補償的條例有那如果你有積極爭取的話請問是誰不同意這個原民會主要編取這一個相關的預算"},{"start":464.827,"end":492.097,"text":"因為我們就是說希望爭取就是主席總書這邊也來幫忙那如果是這個可以試狀況我們的歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆可是你現在基金目前大概只剩不到10億已經短出了67億所以你的基金其實基本上也是不夠的金額如果因為總的基金來講"},{"start":493.197,"end":494.659,"text":"社會福利、經濟發展根本就沒有禁法補償的科目"},{"start":505.595,"end":534.554,"text":"那要怎麼使用我們的收支保管還有這個運用的辦法確實有是可以來用來是哪一條是哪一條對第6應該是第5條可以用在進法補償的條例對而且歷年來已經大概有7、8年都是這樣是不是會後請這個主委把相關的這個內容給我因為其實請曾主委要多站在我們原民的立場多想一想如果這個現在就不同意您編列這筆預算的是有誰"},{"start":535.735,"end":564.381,"text":"你也可以大聲說出來我們國民黨團一定做你的後盾謝謝那這部分可能麻煩一下因為現在這個禁防本土條例已經三讀通過本來就應該要編列預算那這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會不是刪除而是退回主要就是因為這本來就是應該要編列在預算裡面的支出那為什麼不編列進去如果你有很大的壓力你說這個行政院有誰不同意那我想國民黨團會做你的後盾謝謝"},{"start":570.17,"end":570.191,"text":"好"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:49:25 - 10:58:56","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155326,"gazette":{"lineno":647,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（10時49分）謝謝主席，請客委會古主委，還有原民會曾主委、文化部的李次長，以及教育部的梁司長。"],["主席：請古主委、曾主委、李次長，還有梁司長。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，還有次長、司長，大家好。今天我們召委安排這個專報，主要是針對這一次臺灣台語所引起的爭議，造成了很多不同族群對於語言的問題有各種不同的看法。國家語言發展法的制定，主要就是為了推廣多元語言，希望讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留，而且也希望能夠多多的推廣。","語言的發展非常重要，很多的文化傳承，古主委也常常提到很希望客家語言能夠好好的發展，未來不管是今年或明年的重點，今天爭議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語，可是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為台語到底代表的是真正的台語，還是臺灣的語言，造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈，所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長，針對這一次推動這樣一個政策引起蠻大的爭議，請問你有什麼看法？"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員報告，語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式提出，這個語發報告要經過行政院核定，其實也經過各部會之間，還有跟語言團體之間非常多次的溝通跟協商，所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語，把台語當作一個專有名詞……"],["許委員宇甄：就是原來的閩南語嘛！"],["李次長靜慧：它不等於臺灣語言的簡稱，不要把它作為簡稱。"],["許委員宇甄：但是現在為什麼客家族群會反彈這麼大，他就覺得這樣子其實會讓人家覺得台語可能就是臺灣的語言，不然就是臺灣語言最重要的一個部分，所以造成……"],["李次長靜慧：我們溝通的不夠，我們再來努力溝通。"],["許委員宇甄：教育部梁司長，我有聽到你們建議優先使用，就是臺灣台語、臺灣原住民語及臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用，可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語，我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣了。"],["梁司長學政：跟委員報告，其實教育部主要是根據剛才所講的111年8月20號的語發決議，還有文化部，就是我們語言的專責機關，他們在今年6月20號發函給教育部，希望我們優先使用……"],["許委員宇甄：他們寫的是優先使用嘛！"],["梁司長學政：是。"],["許委員宇甄：並不是說一定要嘛！那為什麼查詢你們的網站，我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語？"],["梁司長學政：因為他建議書面的書寫上要優先使用這些，不是只有臺灣台語，包括臺灣客語等等，教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的決策來做。"],["許委員宇甄：我有一點不太理解，為什麼要加上「臺灣」這兩個字？因為我們都在臺灣，不管是台語、原住民語、客家語，本來都是我們使用的語言，因為你們特別提到要推廣語言，就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語，希望能夠來推動，加了「臺灣」這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎？這是教育部還是文化部要回答？"],["梁司長學政：語言是文化部。"],["許委員宇甄：是文化部，好。"],["李次長靜慧：就是因為剛剛講台語作為一個專有名詞之後，我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得好像被排除在臺灣之外，所以我們就會提出在名稱上面，大家都是臺灣的語言……"],["許委員宇甄：不過目前看起來，好像加了「臺灣」這兩個字之後，反而引起更大的反彈，剛剛有特別提到，可能客家族群現在的反彈最大。請問一下古主委，針對這個部分，您覺得這樣子是不是適當，然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群覺得自己的語言沒有受到尊重？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想我們相當了解客家人作為一個少數族群需要讓人聽得到、看得到、尊重，所以客家族群的少數意見也要讓人聽得到，但是我們又尊重每一個族群在歷史文化的過程裡面，他怎麼喊自己的名字，這我們也尊重，所以在這個立場來看，我們是採開放性的態度。剛才委員有說是優先使用，不是唯一、一定，所以客委會在這個方面……"],["許委員宇甄：我知道就是優先使用，不過目前看來各個部會都已經開始使用，因為是行政院的相關……"],["古主任委員秀妃：我們沒有，我們目前還是依照客委會來稱呼閩南語、Holo話，客家話就是稱臺灣客家話、客語這樣來做，所以其實有開放性。"],["許委員宇甄：其實以這個部分，還是希望……"],["古主任委員秀妃：建議用語。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，針對這些客家族群能夠好好地跟他們溝通……"],["古主任委員秀妃：是，應該要的。"],["許委員宇甄：因為目前看起來，加了「臺灣」這兩個字既然引起這麼大的爭議，那臺灣台語、臺灣原住民語、臺灣客語這些，我們就在臺灣了，為什麼還要去做這樣子的使用？我覺得有很大的問題。"],["古主任委員秀妃：應該要的，多數族群應該要聽我們少數族群的聲音，也要尊重，沒錯，我也是認同。"],["許委員宇甄：OK！謝謝主委。","曾主委，你的看法呢？針對原住民的部分，原住民如果照這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣，原住民族語應該是臺灣最早的語言，曾主委的看法呢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個是很自然的，我們都是尊重各族群，因為我們也是臺灣原住民，就是多尊重。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我是覺得加「臺灣」之後會造成這麼大的爭議跟困擾，是不是教育部這邊也應該要再省思一下？","另外，請問原民會曾主委，針對禁伐補償的經費，原民會沒有辦法補足足額的預算，請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力地向行政院爭取？","古主委還有其他幾位，你們可以先回座，謝謝。"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我們今年編28.16億，已經是歷年來編最多的一次，一直以來禁伐補償的經費……"],["許委員宇甄：本席請教的是，你有沒有積極地向行政院爭取，應該是要依禁伐補償條例……"],["曾主任委員智勇：有。"],["許委員宇甄：好，如果你有積極爭取的話，請問是誰不同意原民會足額編列相關的預算？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們希望爭取主計總處這邊也來幫忙，如果可以視狀況，歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆預算……"],["許委員宇甄：可是基金目前大概只剩不到10億，已經短絀了67億，所以你的基金其實基本上也是金額不夠的。"],["曾主任委員智勇：總的基金來講還夠支應，如果視狀況……"],["許委員宇甄：問題是一般我們基金的用途是用在社會福利、經濟發展，根本就沒有禁伐補償的科目，那要怎麼使用？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們的收支保管及運用辦法確實有，可以用來支應。"],["許委員宇甄：是哪一條？可不可以告訴我？"],["曾主任委員智勇：應該是第五條。"],["許委員宇甄：可以用在禁伐補償條例？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，而且歷年來大概已經有七、八年都是這樣。"],["許委員宇甄：好，是不是會後請主委把相關的內容給我？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["許委員宇甄：請曾主委要站在我們原民的立場多想一想。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["許委員宇甄：現在不同意您編列這筆預算的有誰，你也可以大聲說出來，我們國民黨黨團一定做你的後盾。"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：這部分可能麻煩一下，因為現在禁伐補償條例已經三讀通過，本來就應該要編列預算，這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會，不是刪除而是退回，主要就是因為這本來就是應該編列在預算裡面的支出，為什麼不編列進去？如果你有很大的壓力，你說行政院有誰不同意，我想國民黨黨團會做你的後盾，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄主委。","接下來請王美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}}