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389.209, \"end\": 389.229, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:11,240\n好謝主席請部長\n\n2\n00:00:40,579 --> 00:01:05,877\n為什麼要這樣講呢?其實我看完你們的草案我非常擔心啊。擔心什麼?因為其實民間,我不知道部長你知不知道在那個Join平台上面有600多則的意見,針對你們的草案提出了大家的擔憂。請問你們有看嗎?你們有看嗎?有有有有,我們不但有看還是分類去請了開專家會議一直在討論。\n\n3\n00:01:06,846 --> 00:01:08,447\n好,那我隨便舉幾個大家的意見,第一個\n\n4\n00:01:34,471 --> 00:01:51,857\n請問這個代孕者裡面你們在草案的第22條裡面有寫到說現與有足月懷孕生產經驗而且沒有重大病發者這個是裡面的一個其中一個條件但是對於這樣子的條件他真的有辦法做到知情同意嗎\n\n5\n00:01:53,308 --> 00:02:07,182\n怎麼說呢就是如果他沒有任何活產的經驗就是他沒有真的成功生下小孩的經驗他有辦法知道說我知道接下來作為一個代理孕母他可能會遇到什麼樣的情況嗎\n\n6\n00:02:10,224 --> 00:02:37,550\n所以我們條文設計就是說要想成為代理姻母這件事他必須要有逐月順產的經驗他必須要有去媽媽的資格也有做孕婦的資格也都已經有那個經驗過了但我的意思是說他沒有生過嗎我們沒有規定我們規定他不可以的沒有生過就不可以啊所以在你們的文字裡面是有一定要生過小孩才可以一定要生過而且還是順產\n\n7\n00:02:39,192 --> 00:02:58,749\n好那這個就是必須要在文字裡面寫到非常清楚這就是民眾的疑問再來在這個22條裡面還有一個這個其實剛剛有提到就是你們針對這個身心評估的標準跟程序目前看起來是沒有任何細節的而且是一個空白的授權是這樣子嗎\n\n8\n00:03:00,305 --> 00:03:27,491\n我們已經在建置相關這些諮詢的機構還有它的條件還有諮詢的流程跟內容我們都已經有都正在建置完成已經建置完成了已經在建置當中已經在建置當中那我必須要說如果到時候照你們的這個版本出來如果沒有任何的具體的評估的程序以及標準沒有送出來之前這個版本是不能通過的好嗎可以嗎\n\n9\n00:03:30,406 --> 00:03:53,433\n我想通過跟公告實施啦應該是都在公告實施之前我們必須要把這些完備因為你們沒有讓民眾知道說接下來可能的程序可能的標準是什麼然後你就先通過了然後空白授權之後再來說我們實施之後等要實施了就會生出來這樣是一個負責任的表現嗎你們還沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問就要先通過這個空白授權的內容\n\n10\n00:03:57,014 --> 00:03:57,675\n署長,非常不負責任。\n\n11\n00:04:12,318 --> 00:04:12,338\n好嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:37,321 --> 00:04:49,987\n再來最後一個我認為你們也應該先把代孕的定型化契約拿出來因為你們現在也都沒有你嘛沒有你對吧有你阿為什麼沒有讓大家看\n\n13\n00:04:53,266 --> 00:05:10,571\n對啊沒有任何的內容然後就跟大家說反正我們先通過到時候契約的內容等你們定執法等你們要施行了再來決定這些文字白紙黑字先出來好不好先讓民眾先知道說接下來可能會遇到什麼情況是請問您是副署長副署長\n\n14\n00:05:11,831 --> 00:05:35,572\n報告委員那個有關那個所謂的那個應通報就是那個應記載跟不記載事項他是屬於契約內容我們一直有在開專家會議可是因為他不是屬於法定的預告內容我們現在目前是沒有預告所以這個就是我一直在說的你們就覺得他不是法定應該要預告的內容你們就不用讓民眾知道是這樣子嗎不是我們其實開會的時候可以這麼相關的NGO團體都有來參加\n\n15\n00:05:38,735 --> 00:06:06,503\n所以呢不用讓民眾知道嗎?你們可以在這麼就是黑箱的程序之下不用解決民眾的疑慮然後就打算這樣草率的上路這是我最大的擔憂喔因為我認為在沒有完備所有這個代孕者的他的身體自主權以及尊重他的身體之前這樣的草案都是都不是正確的\n\n16\n00:06:07,143 --> 00:06:28,869\n所以當然我希望好我知道時間到了最後我希望說你們還是要考慮一下先脫鉤處理的可能性是不是沒有爭議的單身女性以及女同志就先讓她上路了有爭議的之後等你們把這些定型化契約身心評估的程序標準全部定出來之後我們再來好好的讓她細緻完整的上路啊好不好\n\n17\n00:06:29,209 --> 00:06:29,229\n謝謝黃偉仁\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10199\t11240\t好 謝主席 請部長\n40579\t65877\t為什麼要這樣講呢?其實我看完你們的草案我非常擔心啊。擔心什麼?因為其實民間,我不知道部長你知不知道在那個Join平台上面有600多則的意見,針對你們的草案提出了大家的擔憂。請問你們有看嗎?你們有看嗎?有有有有,我們不但有看還是分類去請了開專家會議一直在討論。\n66846\t68447\t好,那我隨便舉幾個大家的意見,第一個\n94471\t111857\t請問這個代孕者裡面你們在草案的第22條裡面有寫到說現與有足月懷孕生產經驗而且沒有重大病發者這個是裡面的一個其中一個條件但是對於這樣子的條件他真的有辦法做到知情同意嗎\n113308\t127182\t怎麼說呢就是如果他沒有任何活產的經驗就是他沒有真的成功生下小孩的經驗他有辦法知道說我知道接下來作為一個代理孕母他可能會遇到什麼樣的情況嗎\n130224\t157550\t所以我們條文設計就是說要想成為代理姻母這件事他必須要有逐月順產的經驗他必須要有去媽媽的資格也有做孕婦的資格也都已經有那個經驗過了但我的意思是說他沒有生過嗎我們沒有規定我們規定他不可以的沒有生過就不可以啊所以在你們的文字裡面是有一定要生過小孩才可以一定要生過而且還是順產\n159192\t178749\t好那這個就是必須要在文字裡面寫到非常清楚這就是民眾的疑問再來在這個22條裡面還有一個這個其實剛剛有提到就是你們針對這個身心評估的標準跟程序目前看起來是沒有任何細節的而且是一個空白的授權是這樣子嗎\n180305\t207491\t我們已經在建置相關這些諮詢的機構還有它的條件還有諮詢的流程跟內容我們都已經有都正在建置完成已經建置完成了已經在建置當中已經在建置當中那我必須要說如果到時候照你們的這個版本出來如果沒有任何的具體的評估的程序以及標準沒有送出來之前這個版本是不能通過的好嗎可以嗎\n210406\t233433\t我想通過跟公告實施啦應該是都在公告實施之前我們必須要把這些完備因為你們沒有讓民眾知道說接下來可能的程序可能的標準是什麼然後你就先通過了然後空白授權之後再來說我們實施之後等要實施了就會生出來這樣是一個負責任的表現嗎你們還沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問就要先通過這個空白授權的內容\n237014\t237675\t署長,非常不負責任。\n252318\t252338\t好嗎?\n277321\t289987\t再來最後一個我認為你們也應該先把代孕的定型化契約拿出來因為你們現在也都沒有你嘛沒有你對吧有你阿為什麼沒有讓大家看\n293266\t310571\t對啊沒有任何的內容然後就跟大家說反正我們先通過到時候契約的內容等你們定執法等你們要施行了再來決定這些文字白紙黑字先出來好不好先讓民眾先知道說接下來可能會遇到什麼情況是請問您是副署長副署長\n311831\t335572\t報告委員那個有關那個所謂的那個應通報就是那個應記載跟不記載事項他是屬於契約內容我們一直有在開專家會議可是因為他不是屬於法定的預告內容我們現在目前是沒有預告所以這個就是我一直在說的你們就覺得他不是法定應該要預告的內容你們就不用讓民眾知道是這樣子嗎不是我們其實開會的時候可以這麼相關的NGO團體都有來參加\n338735\t366503\t所以呢不用讓民眾知道嗎?你們可以在這麼就是黑箱的程序之下不用解決民眾的疑慮然後就打算這樣草率的上路這是我最大的擔憂喔因為我認為在沒有完備所有這個代孕者的他的身體自主權以及尊重他的身體之前這樣的草案都是都不是正確的\n367143\t388869\t所以當然我希望好我知道時間到了最後我希望說你們還是要考慮一下先脫鉤處理的可能性是不是沒有爭議的單身女性以及女同志就先讓她上路了有爭議的之後等你們把這些定型化契約身心評估的程序標準全部定出來之後我們再來好好的讓她細緻完整的上路啊好不好\n389209\t389229\t謝謝黃偉仁\n","txt":"好 謝主席 請部長\n為什麼要這樣講呢?其實我看完你們的草案我非常擔心啊。擔心什麼?因為其實民間,我不知道部長你知不知道在那個Join平台上面有600多則的意見,針對你們的草案提出了大家的擔憂。請問你們有看嗎?你們有看嗎?有有有有,我們不但有看還是分類去請了開專家會議一直在討論。\n好,那我隨便舉幾個大家的意見,第一個\n請問這個代孕者裡面你們在草案的第22條裡面有寫到說現與有足月懷孕生產經驗而且沒有重大病發者這個是裡面的一個其中一個條件但是對於這樣子的條件他真的有辦法做到知情同意嗎\n怎麼說呢就是如果他沒有任何活產的經驗就是他沒有真的成功生下小孩的經驗他有辦法知道說我知道接下來作為一個代理孕母他可能會遇到什麼樣的情況嗎\n所以我們條文設計就是說要想成為代理姻母這件事他必須要有逐月順產的經驗他必須要有去媽媽的資格也有做孕婦的資格也都已經有那個經驗過了但我的意思是說他沒有生過嗎我們沒有規定我們規定他不可以的沒有生過就不可以啊所以在你們的文字裡面是有一定要生過小孩才可以一定要生過而且還是順產\n好那這個就是必須要在文字裡面寫到非常清楚這就是民眾的疑問再來在這個22條裡面還有一個這個其實剛剛有提到就是你們針對這個身心評估的標準跟程序目前看起來是沒有任何細節的而且是一個空白的授權是這樣子嗎\n我們已經在建置相關這些諮詢的機構還有它的條件還有諮詢的流程跟內容我們都已經有都正在建置完成已經建置完成了已經在建置當中已經在建置當中那我必須要說如果到時候照你們的這個版本出來如果沒有任何的具體的評估的程序以及標準沒有送出來之前這個版本是不能通過的好嗎可以嗎\n我想通過跟公告實施啦應該是都在公告實施之前我們必須要把這些完備因為你們沒有讓民眾知道說接下來可能的程序可能的標準是什麼然後你就先通過了然後空白授權之後再來說我們實施之後等要實施了就會生出來這樣是一個負責任的表現嗎你們還沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問就要先通過這個空白授權的內容\n署長,非常不負責任。\n好嗎?\n再來最後一個我認為你們也應該先把代孕的定型化契約拿出來因為你們現在也都沒有你嘛沒有你對吧有你阿為什麼沒有讓大家看\n對啊沒有任何的內容然後就跟大家說反正我們先通過到時候契約的內容等你們定執法等你們要施行了再來決定這些文字白紙黑字先出來好不好先讓民眾先知道說接下來可能會遇到什麼情況是請問您是副署長副署長\n報告委員那個有關那個所謂的那個應通報就是那個應記載跟不記載事項他是屬於契約內容我們一直有在開專家會議可是因為他不是屬於法定的預告內容我們現在目前是沒有預告所以這個就是我一直在說的你們就覺得他不是法定應該要預告的內容你們就不用讓民眾知道是這樣子嗎不是我們其實開會的時候可以這麼相關的NGO團體都有來參加\n所以呢不用讓民眾知道嗎?你們可以在這麼就是黑箱的程序之下不用解決民眾的疑慮然後就打算這樣草率的上路這是我最大的擔憂喔因為我認為在沒有完備所有這個代孕者的他的身體自主權以及尊重他的身體之前這樣的草案都是都不是正確的\n所以當然我希望好我知道時間到了最後我希望說你們還是要考慮一下先脫鉤處理的可能性是不是沒有爭議的單身女性以及女同志就先讓她上路了有爭議的之後等你們把這些定型化契約身心評估的程序標準全部定出來之後我們再來好好的讓她細緻完整的上路啊好不好\n謝謝黃偉仁\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.199 --> 00:11.240\n好謝主席請部長\n\n00:40.579 --> 01:05.877\n為什麼要這樣講呢?其實我看完你們的草案我非常擔心啊。擔心什麼?因為其實民間,我不知道部長你知不知道在那個Join平台上面有600多則的意見,針對你們的草案提出了大家的擔憂。請問你們有看嗎?你們有看嗎?有有有有,我們不但有看還是分類去請了開專家會議一直在討論。\n\n01:06.846 --> 01:08.447\n好,那我隨便舉幾個大家的意見,第一個\n\n01:34.471 --> 01:51.857\n請問這個代孕者裡面你們在草案的第22條裡面有寫到說現與有足月懷孕生產經驗而且沒有重大病發者這個是裡面的一個其中一個條件但是對於這樣子的條件他真的有辦法做到知情同意嗎\n\n01:53.308 --> 02:07.182\n怎麼說呢就是如果他沒有任何活產的經驗就是他沒有真的成功生下小孩的經驗他有辦法知道說我知道接下來作為一個代理孕母他可能會遇到什麼樣的情況嗎\n\n02:10.224 --> 02:37.550\n所以我們條文設計就是說要想成為代理姻母這件事他必須要有逐月順產的經驗他必須要有去媽媽的資格也有做孕婦的資格也都已經有那個經驗過了但我的意思是說他沒有生過嗎我們沒有規定我們規定他不可以的沒有生過就不可以啊所以在你們的文字裡面是有一定要生過小孩才可以一定要生過而且還是順產\n\n02:39.192 --> 02:58.749\n好那這個就是必須要在文字裡面寫到非常清楚這就是民眾的疑問再來在這個22條裡面還有一個這個其實剛剛有提到就是你們針對這個身心評估的標準跟程序目前看起來是沒有任何細節的而且是一個空白的授權是這樣子嗎\n\n03:00.305 --> 03:27.491\n我們已經在建置相關這些諮詢的機構還有它的條件還有諮詢的流程跟內容我們都已經有都正在建置完成已經建置完成了已經在建置當中已經在建置當中那我必須要說如果到時候照你們的這個版本出來如果沒有任何的具體的評估的程序以及標準沒有送出來之前這個版本是不能通過的好嗎可以嗎\n\n03:30.406 --> 03:53.433\n我想通過跟公告實施啦應該是都在公告實施之前我們必須要把這些完備因為你們沒有讓民眾知道說接下來可能的程序可能的標準是什麼然後你就先通過了然後空白授權之後再來說我們實施之後等要實施了就會生出來這樣是一個負責任的表現嗎你們還沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問就要先通過這個空白授權的內容\n\n03:57.014 --> 03:57.675\n署長,非常不負責任。\n\n04:12.318 --> 04:12.338\n好嗎?\n\n04:37.321 --> 04:49.987\n再來最後一個我認為你們也應該先把代孕的定型化契約拿出來因為你們現在也都沒有你嘛沒有你對吧有你阿為什麼沒有讓大家看\n\n04:53.266 --> 05:10.571\n對啊沒有任何的內容然後就跟大家說反正我們先通過到時候契約的內容等你們定執法等你們要施行了再來決定這些文字白紙黑字先出來好不好先讓民眾先知道說接下來可能會遇到什麼情況是請問您是副署長副署長\n\n05:11.831 --> 05:35.572\n報告委員那個有關那個所謂的那個應通報就是那個應記載跟不記載事項他是屬於契約內容我們一直有在開專家會議可是因為他不是屬於法定的預告內容我們現在目前是沒有預告所以這個就是我一直在說的你們就覺得他不是法定應該要預告的內容你們就不用讓民眾知道是這樣子嗎不是我們其實開會的時候可以這麼相關的NGO團體都有來參加\n\n05:38.735 --> 06:06.503\n所以呢不用讓民眾知道嗎?你們可以在這麼就是黑箱的程序之下不用解決民眾的疑慮然後就打算這樣草率的上路這是我最大的擔憂喔因為我認為在沒有完備所有這個代孕者的他的身體自主權以及尊重他的身體之前這樣的草案都是都不是正確的\n\n06:07.143 --> 06:28.869\n所以當然我希望好我知道時間到了最後我希望說你們還是要考慮一下先脫鉤處理的可能性是不是沒有爭議的單身女性以及女同志就先讓她上路了有爭議的之後等你們把這些定型化契約身心評估的程序標準全部定出來之後我們再來好好的讓她細緻完整的上路啊好不好\n\n06:29.209 --> 06:29.229\n謝謝黃偉仁\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.199,"end":11.24,"text":"好 謝主席 請部長"},{"start":40.579,"end":65.877,"text":"為什麼要這樣講呢?其實我看完你們的草案我非常擔心啊。擔心什麼?因為其實民間,我不知道部長你知不知道在那個Join平台上面有600多則的意見,針對你們的草案提出了大家的擔憂。請問你們有看嗎?你們有看嗎?有有有有,我們不但有看還是分類去請了開專家會議一直在討論。"},{"start":66.846,"end":68.447,"text":"好,那我隨便舉幾個大家的意見,第一個"},{"start":94.471,"end":111.857,"text":"請問這個代孕者裡面你們在草案的第22條裡面有寫到說現與有足月懷孕生產經驗而且沒有重大病發者這個是裡面的一個其中一個條件但是對於這樣子的條件他真的有辦法做到知情同意嗎"},{"start":113.308,"end":127.182,"text":"怎麼說呢就是如果他沒有任何活產的經驗就是他沒有真的成功生下小孩的經驗他有辦法知道說我知道接下來作為一個代理孕母他可能會遇到什麼樣的情況嗎"},{"start":130.224,"end":157.55,"text":"所以我們條文設計就是說要想成為代理姻母這件事他必須要有逐月順產的經驗他必須要有去媽媽的資格也有做孕婦的資格也都已經有那個經驗過了但我的意思是說他沒有生過嗎我們沒有規定我們規定他不可以的沒有生過就不可以啊所以在你們的文字裡面是有一定要生過小孩才可以一定要生過而且還是順產"},{"start":159.192,"end":178.749,"text":"好那這個就是必須要在文字裡面寫到非常清楚這就是民眾的疑問再來在這個22條裡面還有一個這個其實剛剛有提到就是你們針對這個身心評估的標準跟程序目前看起來是沒有任何細節的而且是一個空白的授權是這樣子嗎"},{"start":180.305,"end":207.491,"text":"我們已經在建置相關這些諮詢的機構還有它的條件還有諮詢的流程跟內容我們都已經有都正在建置完成已經建置完成了已經在建置當中已經在建置當中那我必須要說如果到時候照你們的這個版本出來如果沒有任何的具體的評估的程序以及標準沒有送出來之前這個版本是不能通過的好嗎可以嗎"},{"start":210.406,"end":233.433,"text":"我想通過跟公告實施啦應該是都在公告實施之前我們必須要把這些完備因為你們沒有讓民眾知道說接下來可能的程序可能的標準是什麼然後你就先通過了然後空白授權之後再來說我們實施之後等要實施了就會生出來這樣是一個負責任的表現嗎你們還沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問就要先通過這個空白授權的內容"},{"start":237.014,"end":237.675,"text":"署長,非常不負責任。"},{"start":252.318,"end":252.338,"text":"好嗎?"},{"start":277.321,"end":289.987,"text":"再來最後一個我認為你們也應該先把代孕的定型化契約拿出來因為你們現在也都沒有你嘛沒有你對吧有你阿為什麼沒有讓大家看"},{"start":293.266,"end":310.571,"text":"對啊沒有任何的內容然後就跟大家說反正我們先通過到時候契約的內容等你們定執法等你們要施行了再來決定這些文字白紙黑字先出來好不好先讓民眾先知道說接下來可能會遇到什麼情況是請問您是副署長副署長"},{"start":311.831,"end":335.572,"text":"報告委員那個有關那個所謂的那個應通報就是那個應記載跟不記載事項他是屬於契約內容我們一直有在開專家會議可是因為他不是屬於法定的預告內容我們現在目前是沒有預告所以這個就是我一直在說的你們就覺得他不是法定應該要預告的內容你們就不用讓民眾知道是這樣子嗎不是我們其實開會的時候可以這麼相關的NGO團體都有來參加"},{"start":338.735,"end":366.503,"text":"所以呢不用讓民眾知道嗎?你們可以在這麼就是黑箱的程序之下不用解決民眾的疑慮然後就打算這樣草率的上路這是我最大的擔憂喔因為我認為在沒有完備所有這個代孕者的他的身體自主權以及尊重他的身體之前這樣的草案都是都不是正確的"},{"start":367.143,"end":388.869,"text":"所以當然我希望好我知道時間到了最後我希望說你們還是要考慮一下先脫鉤處理的可能性是不是沒有爭議的單身女性以及女同志就先讓她上路了有爭議的之後等你們把這些定型化契約身心評估的程序標準全部定出來之後我們再來好好的讓她細緻完整的上路啊好不好"},{"start":389.209,"end":389.229,"text":"謝謝黃偉仁"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:47:05 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12:53:49","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","id":155345,"gazette":{"lineno":944,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（12時47分）好，謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：部長。"],["黃委員捷：好，部長好。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：針對剛剛申翰委員的問題，我想要接續，因為其實總結剛剛所有委員的問題，我認為衛福部你們還沒準備好，你們真的還沒準備好。如果依照你們現在的草案要上路，我認為是非常、非常、非常不負責任的。為什麼要這樣講呢？我看完你們的草案，我非常擔心啊！擔心什麼？因為其實民間，我不知道部長你知不知道，在join平台上有六百多則的意見，針對你們的草案提出了大家的擔憂，請問你們有看嗎？你們有看嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：有，我們不但有看，還分類去開專家會議，一直在討論。"],["黃委員捷：所以你們有針對這些民眾的意見，提出確實的解方嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：跟委員報告，謝謝啦！因為大家都非常關心這個案子，所以剛剛提到有六百多則的意見，那我們分門別類，到目前為止召開了六次的專家會議，相關的團體跟專業的團體，我們都有邀請來做討論。"],["黃委員捷：好，那我隨便舉幾個大家的意見，第一、請問關於代孕者，你們在草案第二十二條有寫到，限有足月懷孕生產經驗，而且沒有重大併發症者，這個是裡面其中一個條件。但是對於這樣子的條件，他真的有辦法做到知情同意嗎？怎麼說呢？如果他沒有任何活產的經驗，就是他沒有真的成功生下小孩的經驗，他有辦法知道接下來，作為一個代理孕母可能會遇到什麼樣的情況嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：所以我們的條文設計就是說，要想成為代理孕母這件事，他必須要有足月順產的經驗，有具媽媽的資格，也有做孕婦的資格，也都已經有那個經驗過了……"],["黃委員捷：但我的意思是說他沒有生過嘛！"],["吳署長昭軍：我們規定他不可以的，沒有生過就不可以啊！"],["黃委員捷：所以在你們的文字裡面，是有一定要生過小孩？"],["吳署長昭軍：一定要生過，而且還是順產。"],["黃委員捷：好，那這個就是必須要在文字裡面寫的非常清楚，這就是民眾的疑問。再來在第二十二條裡面還有一個，其實剛剛也有提到，就是你們針對身心評估標準跟程序，目前看起來是沒有任何細節的，而且是一個空白的授權，是這樣子嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：我們已經在建置這些相關的諮詢機構，還有他的條件，還有諮詢的流程跟內容，我們都已經在建置了。"],["黃委員捷：已經建置完成了？"],["吳署長昭軍：已經在建置當中。"],["黃委員捷：已經在建置當中，那我必須要說，如果到時候照你們的這個版本出來，沒有任何的具體評估程序以及標準，沒有送出來之前這個版本是不能通過的好嗎？可以嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：我想通過跟公告實施，應該是說在公告實施之前，我們必須要把這些完備。"],["黃委員捷：因為你們沒有讓民眾知道接下來可能的程序、可能的標準是什麼，然後你就先通過，然後空白授權，之後再來說我們實施之後，等要實施了就會生出來，這樣是一個負責任的表現嗎？你們還沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問，就要先通過這個空白授權的內容，是這樣子嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：不是這樣子說啦！因為法律律定本就如此啊！你們通過以後還會經過行政院公告，總統公告才會實施啊！"],["黃委員捷：所以你們沒有辦法解決民眾的疑問嘛！什麼叫法律依據就是如此？署長非常不負責任，真的很不負責任。你們沒有辦法回應民眾對你們的質疑，但是你現在就說反正法律先通過了，到時候這個空白授權，我們會再把子法訂出來。所以我在這邊想要具體要求，在你們這些身心評估的程序以及標準沒有具體提出來之前，這個法是不能通過的，好嗎？","再來最後一個，我認為你們也應該先把代孕的定型化契約拿出來，因為你們現在都沒有擬對吧？有擬？那為什麼沒有讓大家看？對啊！沒有任何的內容，然後就跟大家說反正我們先通過，到時候契約的內容，等你們訂子法，等你們要施行了再來決定，這些文字白紙黑字先出來好不好？讓民眾先知道接下來可能會遇到什麼情況。"],["魏副署長璽倫：是。"],["黃委員捷：請問您是？"],["吳署長昭軍：副署長。"],["魏副署長璽倫：報告委員，有關所謂的應記載跟不記載事項，它是屬於契約內容，我們一直有在開專家會議，可是因為它不是屬於法定的預告內容，我們目前是沒有預告，一直持續在滾動性檢討……"],["黃委員捷：所以這就是我一直在說的，你們就覺得它不是法定應該要預告的內容就不用讓民眾知道，是這樣子嗎？可以這麼……"],["魏副署長璽倫：不是，我們其實開會的時候，都有找相關的NGO團體來參加。"],["黃委員捷：所以呢？不用讓民眾知道嗎？你們可以在這麼黑箱的程序之下，不用解決民眾的疑慮，然後就打算這樣草率的上路，這就是我最大的擔憂。因為我認為在沒有完備所有代孕者的身體自主權，以及尊重他的身體之前，這樣的草案都不是正確的。","好，我知道時間到了。最後我希望，你們還是要考慮一下先脫鉤處理的可能性，是不是沒有爭議的單身女性以及女同志，就先讓他上路了？有爭議的部分，之後等你們把這些定型化契約、身心評估的程序標準全部訂出來之後，我們再來好好的讓他細緻完整的上路啊！好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定嚴謹來處理這件事情。"],["黃委員捷：聽不出來你們的嚴謹啦！我真的覺得部長你們要加油啦！這個內容我看了真的非常擔心，讓人現在完全無法放心，好嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝部長，接續我們請吳春城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}}