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\"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 67.462, \"end\": 92.316, \"text\": \"這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的精華補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 67.462, \"end\": 67.562, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 67.562, \"end\": 67.742, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 67.742, \"end\": 67.862, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 67.862, \"end\": 68.663, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 68.663, \"end\": 68.903, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 68.903, \"end\": 69.083, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 69.083, \"end\": 69.243, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.243, \"end\": 69.383, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 69.383, \"end\": 69.623, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 69.623, \"end\": 69.743, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 326.634, \"end\": 326.754, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 326.754, \"end\": 326.855, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 326.855, \"end\": 326.975, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 326.975, \"end\": 327.195, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 327.195, \"end\": 327.335, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 327.335, \"end\": 327.355, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,926 --> 00:00:04,828\n請原民會曾主委\n\n2\n00:00:08,427 --> 00:00:35,251\n昨天主委好昨天在總諮詢的時候因為我後來時間到了所以有一些事情本來想跟你就教剛好今天你有來我就延續昨天的話題我先問一下原住民委員會成立的目的是什麼是不是要照顧原住民是當原住民被欺負的時候主委是不是應該提身而出應該吧應該吧你知道現在我們新北市很多原住民朋友包括有一些民意代表跟我反映說原住民現在已經被污名化\n\n3\n00:00:36,655 --> 00:00:50,472\n說現在好像總預算現在什麼什麼因為民進黨一直在散步嘛就是說什麼明年總預算沒有過啊什麼藍白在擋社福啊藍白在擋治水啊藍白在擋什麼實際上總預算是可以省到今年12月31號嘛沒錯吧是\n\n4\n00:00:52,054 --> 00:01:05,335\n但是他們現在就說好像現在還沒有審完就是已經擋了預算了導致於很多原住民就被誤會以為說是原住民的關係還害得其他人沒有這些社福預算那身為主委的你聽到這個你不會覺得很生氣嗎\n\n5\n00:01:07,462 --> 00:01:32,316\n這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的精華補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛\n\n6\n00:01:32,836 --> 00:01:50,618\n那主委我覺得如果身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒這是第一件事情第二件事情很多原住民講說主委您身為原住民好像是站在政黨的立場沒有照顧原住民特別是這一次進法補償條例本來應該是一公頃要補助到六萬塊\n\n7\n00:01:51,559 --> 00:02:06,854\n那我看到你的說法是說你們在今年的原住民的預算已經比去年多變了12%感覺就是說我們已經對你很照顧了啦原住民我們已經很照顧了啦已經多照顧12%了啦你們還想怎麼樣你這樣的回答會讓人家有這種感覺你知道嗎沒有我說這個\n\n8\n00:02:10,595 --> 00:02:15,919\n明年的預算跟今年比成長了12%這是事實問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決淨法補償條例掃編的問題反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委你認為12%就夠了而且更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡淨法補償是多了8.16%那剩下4%8.16億7%左右7%左右那剩下幾%\n\n9\n00:02:39,324 --> 00:03:07,295\n剩下5%用在哪?用在譬如說用在教育、文化的部分還有這個對演的部分因為你現在講的那12%有一部分是跟競爬補償它的性質是不一樣的嘛是競爬補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他要土地他要土地嘛是土地的所有權人嘛所以你禁止他們去砍伐因為可能要維持地井地貌可能是要怕破壞水土所以禁止他砍伐的補償\n\n10\n00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:33,926\n所以這個性質跟你所謂編的像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的嘛所以原住民的朋友講說要不然這樣子你不要我禁止砍伐我也不配合禁止砍伐那你也不用給我補償我可以利用那個土地賺更多啊現在很多原住民是這樣講啊所以你用增加12%去回應競爬補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事啊所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了因為你這樣子原住民聽了更生氣\n\n11\n00:03:35,226 --> 00:03:48,956\n更何況我來自新北市我本身不是原住民但我們新北市有一個烏來區烏來區裡面他受影響的是就是有500他有571.5公頃是進把補償的土地大概有1656筆然後大概影響大概368人那這些人他們也覺得說為什麼\n\n12\n00:04:00,250 --> 00:04:25,419\n你不給我補償你給我的補償是這樣然後不願意幫我調高又要我禁止嘛所以這個對他們來說他們就會有這樣的一個剝削感啦所以我是覺得你不要講那個12不要再講12%然後再來就是6萬塊錢的部分6萬塊為什麼現在3萬調到6萬其實原住民朋友他也有算一個算一個這個算法出來嘛比如說平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬嘛\n\n13\n00:04:26,636 --> 00:04:46,181\n那你竟把補償已經幾十年沒有補償把過去沒有補償部分假設多多少少給點利息多給個一萬剩六萬塊其實也是合理的所以我不知道為什麼主任你認為不合理然後你對於昨天卓榮泰院長講說如果這樣從三萬直接跳到六萬是浪費公帑你怎麼看\n\n14\n00:04:46,661 --> 00:04:57,320\n不是浪費公帑就是一下子一個預算一下子成長沒有沒有浪費公帑是卓院長講的不是你講的我知道是卓院長講的對因為我在現場聽到那你覺得浪費公帑你怎麼看\n\n15\n00:04:58,001 --> 00:05:27,355\n不是啊,就是應該是你針對他講的,所以你認為他講錯嘛因為你認為他講錯嘛你覺得應該是說編太快而不是浪費公帑嘛對,是增加...好啦,謝謝那個主委你到最後總算有道德勇氣講說院長講錯啦不是浪費公帑啦應該是你認為循序漸進4萬到6萬慢慢來而不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦是好,那你可能利用你們的內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下是就不要講話一句話就傷了我們原住民的心啦好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3926\t4828\t請原民會曾主委\n8427\t35251\t昨天主委好 昨天在總諮詢的時候 因為我後來時間到了所以有一些事情本來想跟你就教剛好今天你有來 我就延續昨天的話題我先問一下原住民委員會成立的目的是什麼是不是要照顧原住民 是當原住民被欺負的時候 主委是不是應該提身而出 應該吧應該吧 你知道現在我們新北市很多原住民朋友包括有一些民意代表跟我反映說原住民現在已經被污名化\n36655\t50472\t說現在好像總預算現在什麼什麼因為民進黨一直在散步嘛就是說什麼明年總預算沒有過啊什麼藍白在擋社福啊藍白在擋治水啊藍白在擋什麼實際上總預算是可以省到今年12月31號嘛沒錯吧是\n52054\t65335\t但是他們現在就說好像現在還沒有審完就是已經擋了預算了導致於很多原住民就被誤會以為說是原住民的關係還害得其他人沒有這些社福預算那身為主委的你聽到這個你不會覺得很生氣嗎\n67462\t92316\t這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的精華補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛\n92836\t110618\t那主委我覺得如果身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒這是第一件事情第二件事情很多原住民講說主委您身為原住民好像是站在政黨的立場沒有照顧原住民特別是這一次進法補償條例本來應該是一公頃要補助到六萬塊\n111559\t126854\t那我看到你的說法是說你們在今年的原住民的預算已經比去年多變了12%感覺就是說我們已經對你很照顧了啦原住民我們已經很照顧了啦已經多照顧12%了啦你們還想怎麼樣你這樣的回答會讓人家有這種感覺你知道嗎沒有我說這個\n130595\t135919\t明年的預算跟今年比成長了12%這是事實問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決淨法補償條例掃編的問題反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委你認為12%就夠了而且更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡淨法補償是多了8.16%那剩下4%8.16億7%左右7%左右那剩下幾%\n159324\t187295\t剩下5%用在哪?用在譬如說用在教育、文化的部分還有這個對演的部分因為你現在講的那12%有一部分是跟競爬補償它的性質是不一樣的嘛是競爬補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他要土地他要土地嘛是土地的所有權人嘛所以你禁止他們去砍伐因為可能要維持地井地貌可能是要怕破壞水土所以禁止他砍伐的補償\n189639\t213926\t所以這個性質跟你所謂編的像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的嘛所以原住民的朋友講說要不然這樣子你不要我禁止砍伐我也不配合禁止砍伐那你也不用給我補償我可以利用那個土地賺更多啊現在很多原住民是這樣講啊所以你用增加12%去回應競爬補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事啊所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了因為你這樣子原住民聽了更生氣\n215226\t228956\t更何況我來自新北市我本身不是原住民但我們新北市有一個烏來區烏來區裡面他受影響的是就是有500他有571.5公頃是進把補償的土地大概有1656筆然後大概影響大概368人那這些人他們也覺得說為什麼\n240250\t265419\t你不給我補償 你給我的補償是這樣然後不願意幫我調高 又要我禁止嘛所以這個對他們來說他們就會有這樣的一個剝削感啦所以我是覺得你不要講那個12不要再講12%然後再來就是6萬塊錢的部分6萬塊為什麼現在3萬調到6萬其實原住民朋友他也有算一個算一個這個算法出來嘛比如說平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬嘛\n266636\t286181\t那你竟把補償已經幾十年沒有補償把過去沒有補償部分假設多多少少給點利息多給個一萬 剩六萬塊其實也是合理的所以我不知道為什麼主任你認為不合理然後你對於昨天卓榮泰院長講說如果這樣從三萬直接跳到六萬是浪費公帑你怎麼看\n286661\t297320\t不是浪費公帑就是一下子一個預算一下子成長沒有沒有浪費公帑是卓院長講的不是你講的我知道是卓院長講的對因為我在現場聽到那你覺得浪費公帑你怎麼看\n298001\t327355\t不是啊,就是應該是你針對他講的,所以你認為他講錯嘛因為你認為他講錯嘛你覺得應該是說編太快而不是浪費公帑嘛對,是增加...好啦,謝謝那個主委你到最後總算有道德勇氣講說院長講錯啦不是浪費公帑啦應該是你認為循序漸進4萬到6萬慢慢來而不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦是好,那你可能利用你們的內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下是就不要講話一句話就傷了我們原住民的心啦好,謝謝\n","txt":"請原民會曾主委\n昨天主委好 昨天在總諮詢的時候 因為我後來時間到了所以有一些事情本來想跟你就教剛好今天你有來 我就延續昨天的話題我先問一下原住民委員會成立的目的是什麼是不是要照顧原住民 是當原住民被欺負的時候 主委是不是應該提身而出 應該吧應該吧 你知道現在我們新北市很多原住民朋友包括有一些民意代表跟我反映說原住民現在已經被污名化\n說現在好像總預算現在什麼什麼因為民進黨一直在散步嘛就是說什麼明年總預算沒有過啊什麼藍白在擋社福啊藍白在擋治水啊藍白在擋什麼實際上總預算是可以省到今年12月31號嘛沒錯吧是\n但是他們現在就說好像現在還沒有審完就是已經擋了預算了導致於很多原住民就被誤會以為說是原住民的關係還害得其他人沒有這些社福預算那身為主委的你聽到這個你不會覺得很生氣嗎\n這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的精華補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛\n那主委我覺得如果身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒這是第一件事情第二件事情很多原住民講說主委您身為原住民好像是站在政黨的立場沒有照顧原住民特別是這一次進法補償條例本來應該是一公頃要補助到六萬塊\n那我看到你的說法是說你們在今年的原住民的預算已經比去年多變了12%感覺就是說我們已經對你很照顧了啦原住民我們已經很照顧了啦已經多照顧12%了啦你們還想怎麼樣你這樣的回答會讓人家有這種感覺你知道嗎沒有我說這個\n明年的預算跟今年比成長了12%這是事實問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決淨法補償條例掃編的問題反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委你認為12%就夠了而且更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡淨法補償是多了8.16%那剩下4%8.16億7%左右7%左右那剩下幾%\n剩下5%用在哪?用在譬如說用在教育、文化的部分還有這個對演的部分因為你現在講的那12%有一部分是跟競爬補償它的性質是不一樣的嘛是競爬補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他要土地他要土地嘛是土地的所有權人嘛所以你禁止他們去砍伐因為可能要維持地井地貌可能是要怕破壞水土所以禁止他砍伐的補償\n所以這個性質跟你所謂編的像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的嘛所以原住民的朋友講說要不然這樣子你不要我禁止砍伐我也不配合禁止砍伐那你也不用給我補償我可以利用那個土地賺更多啊現在很多原住民是這樣講啊所以你用增加12%去回應競爬補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事啊所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了因為你這樣子原住民聽了更生氣\n更何況我來自新北市我本身不是原住民但我們新北市有一個烏來區烏來區裡面他受影響的是就是有500他有571.5公頃是進把補償的土地大概有1656筆然後大概影響大概368人那這些人他們也覺得說為什麼\n你不給我補償 你給我的補償是這樣然後不願意幫我調高 又要我禁止嘛所以這個對他們來說他們就會有這樣的一個剝削感啦所以我是覺得你不要講那個12不要再講12%然後再來就是6萬塊錢的部分6萬塊為什麼現在3萬調到6萬其實原住民朋友他也有算一個算一個這個算法出來嘛比如說平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬嘛\n那你竟把補償已經幾十年沒有補償把過去沒有補償部分假設多多少少給點利息多給個一萬 剩六萬塊其實也是合理的所以我不知道為什麼主任你認為不合理然後你對於昨天卓榮泰院長講說如果這樣從三萬直接跳到六萬是浪費公帑你怎麼看\n不是浪費公帑就是一下子一個預算一下子成長沒有沒有浪費公帑是卓院長講的不是你講的我知道是卓院長講的對因為我在現場聽到那你覺得浪費公帑你怎麼看\n不是啊,就是應該是你針對他講的,所以你認為他講錯嘛因為你認為他講錯嘛你覺得應該是說編太快而不是浪費公帑嘛對,是增加...好啦,謝謝那個主委你到最後總算有道德勇氣講說院長講錯啦不是浪費公帑啦應該是你認為循序漸進4萬到6萬慢慢來而不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦是好,那你可能利用你們的內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下是就不要講話一句話就傷了我們原住民的心啦好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.926 --> 00:04.828\n請原民會曾主委\n\n00:08.427 --> 00:35.251\n昨天主委好昨天在總諮詢的時候因為我後來時間到了所以有一些事情本來想跟你就教剛好今天你有來我就延續昨天的話題我先問一下原住民委員會成立的目的是什麼是不是要照顧原住民是當原住民被欺負的時候主委是不是應該提身而出應該吧應該吧你知道現在我們新北市很多原住民朋友包括有一些民意代表跟我反映說原住民現在已經被污名化\n\n00:36.655 --> 00:50.472\n說現在好像總預算現在什麼什麼因為民進黨一直在散步嘛就是說什麼明年總預算沒有過啊什麼藍白在擋社福啊藍白在擋治水啊藍白在擋什麼實際上總預算是可以省到今年12月31號嘛沒錯吧是\n\n00:52.054 --> 01:05.335\n但是他們現在就說好像現在還沒有審完就是已經擋了預算了導致於很多原住民就被誤會以為說是原住民的關係還害得其他人沒有這些社福預算那身為主委的你聽到這個你不會覺得很生氣嗎\n\n01:07.462 --> 01:32.316\n這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的精華補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛\n\n01:32.836 --> 01:50.618\n那主委我覺得如果身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒這是第一件事情第二件事情很多原住民講說主委您身為原住民好像是站在政黨的立場沒有照顧原住民特別是這一次進法補償條例本來應該是一公頃要補助到六萬塊\n\n01:51.559 --> 02:06.854\n那我看到你的說法是說你們在今年的原住民的預算已經比去年多變了12%感覺就是說我們已經對你很照顧了啦原住民我們已經很照顧了啦已經多照顧12%了啦你們還想怎麼樣你這樣的回答會讓人家有這種感覺你知道嗎沒有我說這個\n\n02:10.595 --> 02:15.919\n明年的預算跟今年比成長了12%這是事實問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決淨法補償條例掃編的問題反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委你認為12%就夠了而且更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡淨法補償是多了8.16%那剩下4%8.16億7%左右7%左右那剩下幾%\n\n02:39.324 --> 03:07.295\n剩下5%用在哪?用在譬如說用在教育、文化的部分還有這個對演的部分因為你現在講的那12%有一部分是跟競爬補償它的性質是不一樣的嘛是競爬補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他要土地他要土地嘛是土地的所有權人嘛所以你禁止他們去砍伐因為可能要維持地井地貌可能是要怕破壞水土所以禁止他砍伐的補償\n\n03:09.639 --> 03:33.926\n所以這個性質跟你所謂編的像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的嘛所以原住民的朋友講說要不然這樣子你不要我禁止砍伐我也不配合禁止砍伐那你也不用給我補償我可以利用那個土地賺更多啊現在很多原住民是這樣講啊所以你用增加12%去回應競爬補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事啊所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了因為你這樣子原住民聽了更生氣\n\n03:35.226 --> 03:48.956\n更何況我來自新北市我本身不是原住民但我們新北市有一個烏來區烏來區裡面他受影響的是就是有500他有571.5公頃是進把補償的土地大概有1656筆然後大概影響大概368人那這些人他們也覺得說為什麼\n\n04:00.250 --> 04:25.419\n你不給我補償你給我的補償是這樣然後不願意幫我調高又要我禁止嘛所以這個對他們來說他們就會有這樣的一個剝削感啦所以我是覺得你不要講那個12不要再講12%然後再來就是6萬塊錢的部分6萬塊為什麼現在3萬調到6萬其實原住民朋友他也有算一個算一個這個算法出來嘛比如說平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬嘛\n\n04:26.636 --> 04:46.181\n那你竟把補償已經幾十年沒有補償把過去沒有補償部分假設多多少少給點利息多給個一萬剩六萬塊其實也是合理的所以我不知道為什麼主任你認為不合理然後你對於昨天卓榮泰院長講說如果這樣從三萬直接跳到六萬是浪費公帑你怎麼看\n\n04:46.661 --> 04:57.320\n不是浪費公帑就是一下子一個預算一下子成長沒有沒有浪費公帑是卓院長講的不是你講的我知道是卓院長講的對因為我在現場聽到那你覺得浪費公帑你怎麼看\n\n04:58.001 --> 05:27.355\n不是啊,就是應該是你針對他講的,所以你認為他講錯嘛因為你認為他講錯嘛你覺得應該是說編太快而不是浪費公帑嘛對,是增加...好啦,謝謝那個主委你到最後總算有道德勇氣講說院長講錯啦不是浪費公帑啦應該是你認為循序漸進4萬到6萬慢慢來而不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦是好,那你可能利用你們的內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下是就不要講話一句話就傷了我們原住民的心啦好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.926,"end":4.828,"text":"請原民會曾主委"},{"start":8.427,"end":35.251,"text":"昨天主委好 昨天在總諮詢的時候 因為我後來時間到了所以有一些事情本來想跟你就教剛好今天你有來 我就延續昨天的話題我先問一下原住民委員會成立的目的是什麼是不是要照顧原住民 是當原住民被欺負的時候 主委是不是應該提身而出 應該吧應該吧 你知道現在我們新北市很多原住民朋友包括有一些民意代表跟我反映說原住民現在已經被污名化"},{"start":36.655,"end":50.472,"text":"說現在好像總預算現在什麼什麼因為民進黨一直在散步嘛就是說什麼明年總預算沒有過啊什麼藍白在擋社福啊藍白在擋治水啊藍白在擋什麼實際上總預算是可以省到今年12月31號嘛沒錯吧是"},{"start":52.054,"end":65.335,"text":"但是他們現在就說好像現在還沒有審完就是已經擋了預算了導致於很多原住民就被誤會以為說是原住民的關係還害得其他人沒有這些社福預算那身為主委的你聽到這個你不會覺得很生氣嗎"},{"start":67.462,"end":92.316,"text":"這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的精華補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛"},{"start":92.836,"end":110.618,"text":"那主委我覺得如果身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒這是第一件事情第二件事情很多原住民講說主委您身為原住民好像是站在政黨的立場沒有照顧原住民特別是這一次進法補償條例本來應該是一公頃要補助到六萬塊"},{"start":111.559,"end":126.854,"text":"那我看到你的說法是說你們在今年的原住民的預算已經比去年多變了12%感覺就是說我們已經對你很照顧了啦原住民我們已經很照顧了啦已經多照顧12%了啦你們還想怎麼樣你這樣的回答會讓人家有這種感覺你知道嗎沒有我說這個"},{"start":130.595,"end":135.919,"text":"明年的預算跟今年比成長了12%這是事實問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決淨法補償條例掃編的問題反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委你認為12%就夠了而且更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡淨法補償是多了8.16%那剩下4%8.16億7%左右7%左右那剩下幾%"},{"start":159.324,"end":187.295,"text":"剩下5%用在哪?用在譬如說用在教育、文化的部分還有這個對演的部分因為你現在講的那12%有一部分是跟競爬補償它的性質是不一樣的嘛是競爬補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他要土地他要土地嘛是土地的所有權人嘛所以你禁止他們去砍伐因為可能要維持地井地貌可能是要怕破壞水土所以禁止他砍伐的補償"},{"start":189.639,"end":213.926,"text":"所以這個性質跟你所謂編的像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的嘛所以原住民的朋友講說要不然這樣子你不要我禁止砍伐我也不配合禁止砍伐那你也不用給我補償我可以利用那個土地賺更多啊現在很多原住民是這樣講啊所以你用增加12%去回應競爬補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事啊所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了因為你這樣子原住民聽了更生氣"},{"start":215.226,"end":228.956,"text":"更何況我來自新北市我本身不是原住民但我們新北市有一個烏來區烏來區裡面他受影響的是就是有500他有571.5公頃是進把補償的土地大概有1656筆然後大概影響大概368人那這些人他們也覺得說為什麼"},{"start":240.25,"end":265.419,"text":"你不給我補償 你給我的補償是這樣然後不願意幫我調高 又要我禁止嘛所以這個對他們來說他們就會有這樣的一個剝削感啦所以我是覺得你不要講那個12不要再講12%然後再來就是6萬塊錢的部分6萬塊為什麼現在3萬調到6萬其實原住民朋友他也有算一個算一個這個算法出來嘛比如說平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬嘛"},{"start":266.636,"end":286.181,"text":"那你竟把補償已經幾十年沒有補償把過去沒有補償部分假設多多少少給點利息多給個一萬 剩六萬塊其實也是合理的所以我不知道為什麼主任你認為不合理然後你對於昨天卓榮泰院長講說如果這樣從三萬直接跳到六萬是浪費公帑你怎麼看"},{"start":286.661,"end":297.32,"text":"不是浪費公帑就是一下子一個預算一下子成長沒有沒有浪費公帑是卓院長講的不是你講的我知道是卓院長講的對因為我在現場聽到那你覺得浪費公帑你怎麼看"},{"start":298.001,"end":327.355,"text":"不是啊,就是應該是你針對他講的,所以你認為他講錯嘛因為你認為他講錯嘛你覺得應該是說編太快而不是浪費公帑嘛對,是增加...好啦,謝謝那個主委你到最後總算有道德勇氣講說院長講錯啦不是浪費公帑啦應該是你認為循序漸進4萬到6萬慢慢來而不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦是好,那你可能利用你們的內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下是就不要講話一句話就傷了我們原住民的心啦好,謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:35:24 - 12:40:54","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155356,"gazette":{"lineno":1042,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時35分）主席，麻煩請曾主委。"],["主席：請原民會曾主委。"],["葉委員元之：曾主委好。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：昨天在總質詢的時候，因為我後來時間到了，有一些事情本來想跟你就教，剛好今天你有來，我就延續昨天的話題。我先問一下，原住民族委員會成立的目的是什麼？是不是要照顧原住民？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["葉委員元之：是吧！當原住民被欺負的時候，主委是不是應該挺身而出，應該吧？"],["曾主任委員智勇：應該。"],["葉委員元之：應該吧，你知道我們新北市很多原住民朋友，包括有一些民意代表跟我反映，說原住民現在已經被污名化，說好像因為民進黨一直在散布說明年總預算沒有過啊！藍白在擋社福、藍白在擋治水、藍白在擋什麼，實際上總預算可以審到今年12月31號，沒錯吧？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["葉委員元之：但是他們現在說還沒有審完好像就是已經擋預算了，導致很多原住民就被誤會，以為是原住民的關係害得其他人沒有這些社福預算，身為主委的你聽到這個，你不會覺得很生氣嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個不是原住民的原因，這是原住民禁伐補償的關係，所以就沒有辦法繼續審……"],["葉委員元之：沒有繼續審，但是那個預算今年大家還在持續使用。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是啊！"],["葉委員元之：明年的預算可以審到12月31號嘛！到目前為止是沒有影響的，對吧？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，今年……"],["葉委員元之：但是很多人就以為已經有影響了嘛，所以就把氣出在原住民身上，我覺得身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒啦，這是第一件事情。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["葉委員元之：第二件事情，很多原住民說主委身為原住民，好像是站在政黨的立場，沒有照顧原住民，特別是這一次禁伐補償本來應該是一公頃要補助到6萬塊，我看到你的說法是說，你們在今年原住民的預算已經比去年多編了12%，感覺就是我們已經對你很照顧了啦，我們已經很照顧原住民了啦，已經多照顧12%了啦，你們還想怎麼樣？你這樣子回答會讓人家有這種感覺，你知道嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有，我說明年的預算跟今年比成長12%，這是事實。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決禁伐補償少編的問題，反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委認為12%就夠了，更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡？幾%？"],["曾主任委員智勇：禁伐補償多了8.16%……"],["葉委員元之：8.16%，剩下4%呢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：8.16億，7%左右。"],["葉委員元之：7%左右，剩下幾%呢？剩下5%用在哪？"],["曾主任委員智勇：譬如說用在教育文化部分，還有對語言的部分。"],["葉委員元之：補助、推廣？對嘛！因為你現在講的那12%，有一部分跟禁伐補償的性質是不一樣的，禁伐補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他有土地，是土地的所有權人，你禁止他們去砍伐，因為可能要維持地景地貌，可能怕破壞水土，所以禁止他砍伐的補償，這個性質跟你編列所謂像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的。原住民的朋友說，不然這樣子，你不要禁止我砍伐，我也不配合禁止砍伐，你也不用給我補償，我可以利用那個土地賺更多，現在很多原住民這樣講。你用增加12%去回應禁伐補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事，所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了，因為這樣子原住民聽了更生氣。","我跟主委講，我來自新北市，我本身不是原住民，但我們新北市有一個烏來區，烏來區裡面受影響有571.5公頃是禁伐補償的土地，大概有1,656筆，影響大概368人，這些人也覺得為什麼你給我的補償是這樣，不願意幫我調高又要禁止我？這個對他們來說，他們就會有這樣的剝削感，所以我是覺得你不要再講12%。再來就是6萬塊錢的部分，為什麼現在3萬調到6萬？其實原住民朋友也有算一個算法出來，比如平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬，禁伐補償已經幾十年沒有補償，把過去沒有補償的部分，假設多多少少給點利息，多給個1萬，這樣6萬塊其實也是合理，所以我不曉得為什麼主委你認為不合理。然後對於昨天卓榮泰院長說的，如果這樣從3萬直接跳到6萬是浪費公帑，你怎麼看？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是浪費公帑，就是預算一下子成長到6萬……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，沒有，浪費公帑是卓院長講的，不是你講的，我知道，是卓院長講的，因為我在現場聽到。對於浪費公帑的說法，你怎麼看？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是啦！這應該……"],["葉委員元之：針對他講的，你也認為他講錯嗎？你也認為他講錯，你覺得應該是說編太快，而不是浪費公帑。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，增加……"],["葉委員元之：好啦，謝謝主委，你到最後總算有道德勇氣說院長講錯了，不是浪費公帑，而是你認為應該要循序漸進，從4萬到6萬慢慢來，並不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["葉委員元之：好，那你可能利用內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下，不要講一句話就傷了我們原住民的心。好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員。","接下來請吳沛憶委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}}