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\"那當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的這個系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 228.834, \"end\": 229.094, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 229.094, \"end\": 229.395, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 229.395, \"end\": 229.635, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 229.635, \"end\": 229.895, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 229.895, \"end\": 230.135, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 230.135, \"end\": 230.496, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 230.496, \"end\": 230.716, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 230.716, \"end\": 230.856, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 230.856, \"end\": 231.717, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 231.717, \"end\": 231.897, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 231.897, \"end\": 231.997, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 231.997, 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0.919}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 241.347, \"end\": 241.707, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 241.707, \"end\": 241.807, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 241.807, \"end\": 242.147, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 242.147, \"end\": 242.368, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 242.368, \"end\": 242.928, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 242.928, \"end\": 243.108, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 243.108, \"end\": 243.429, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"淵\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 243.429, \"end\": 243.629, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 243.629, \"end\": 244.109, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"歷\"}, {\"word\": \"史\", \"start\": 244.109, \"end\": 244.129, \"score\": 0.07}]}, {\"start\": 244.89, \"end\": 260.402, \"text\": \"那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", 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\"高\", \"start\": 257.9, \"end\": 258.02, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 258.02, \"end\": 258.26, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 258.26, \"end\": 258.38, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 258.38, \"end\": 258.5, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 258.5, \"end\": 258.64, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 258.64, \"end\": 258.74, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 258.74, \"end\": 258.82, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 258.82, \"end\": 258.96, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 258.96, \"end\": 258.981, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 258.981, \"end\": 259.121, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 259.121, \"end\": 259.981, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 259.981, \"end\": 260.061, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 260.061, \"end\": 260.081, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 260.081, \"end\": 260.261, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 260.261, \"end\": 260.362, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 260.362, \"end\": 260.382, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 260.382, \"end\": 260.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"話\"}]}, {\"start\": 262.679, \"end\": 283.365, \"text\": \"其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 262.679, \"end\": 262.799, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 262.799, \"end\": 262.979, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 262.979, \"end\": 263.359, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 263.359, \"end\": 263.479, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 263.479, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 273.062, \"end\": 274.242, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 274.242, \"end\": 274.682, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"客\", \"start\": 274.682, \"end\": 275.303, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 275.303, \"end\": 275.543, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 275.543, \"end\": 275.703, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 275.703, \"end\": 276.243, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 276.243, \"end\": 276.403, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 276.403, \"end\": 277.623, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"稱\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 277.623, \"end\": 277.763, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"某\", \"start\": 277.763, \"end\": 278.023, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 278.023, \"end\": 278.263, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 278.263, \"end\": 279.144, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 279.144, \"end\": 279.264, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 279.264, \"end\": 279.384, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 279.384, \"end\": 279.544, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 279.544, \"end\": 279.984, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 279.984, \"end\": 280.224, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 280.224, \"end\": 280.584, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 280.584, \"end\": 281.284, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 281.284, \"end\": 281.424, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 281.424, \"end\": 281.664, \"score\": 0.997}, 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\"start\": 343.522, \"end\": 343.642, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 343.642, \"end\": 343.662, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 343.662, \"end\": 343.882, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 343.882, \"end\": 344.062, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 344.062, \"end\": 344.082, \"score\": 0.051}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:11,429\n有請文化部、教育部來,請李次長,還有梁司長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:12,970 --> 00:00:36,126\n教育部在7月中旬預告要將閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準改名為臺灣台語語言能力認證考試收費標準引發了一些討論但是目前看起來教育部是不為所動所以9月30日如預告所示要把閩南語改為臺灣台語\n\n3\n00:00:39,003 --> 00:01:06,701\n最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑那我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友的意見的看法有一位網友在PTT發文說他到廈門他被嚇到了為什麼呢廈門人台語之標準沒有奇怪口音說得比自己台北同學還要好讓他以為他在台灣這是一位網友的一個\n\n4\n00:01:07,981 --> 00:01:09,603\n中國人想學台語讓他很不舒服\n\n5\n00:01:18,740 --> 00:01:46,456\n尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱臺語歌曲使用我們的文化符號讓他很不爽覺得被冒犯了那也有網友說對於馬來西亞的朋友會說臺語的問候語三字經他十分訝異他說原來臺灣的這個問候語已經發揚到世界各地去那我想要請教一下我們的李次長\n\n6\n00:01:47,981 --> 00:02:16,636\n你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好啊?這怎麼回事啊?廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話廈門人用的就是閩南語啊就是閩南語你有沒有去過廈門?沒有抱歉對嘛我去過真的就是那網友講的你們都覺得我在台灣嗎?會有這種時空感你知道嗎?因為他的閩南語跟台灣的閩南語是同源的啊\n\n7\n00:02:18,417 --> 00:02:42,646\n應該這樣說,如果是一個比較善於常用臺語的人員來講,到了廈門去應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟臺語之間的差距。你一樣跟我講口音當然,我跟你講宜蘭跟這個,跟那個高雄口音就不一樣啊,當然口音有些微差距啊,你不能用這口音的些微差距跟我講就是說,沒有關係啦,我覺得,次長,我現在請教你下一個問題啊,啊中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌?\n\n8\n00:02:45,235 --> 00:03:10,564\n這個由中國他們來決定啊你會不會覺得被冒犯啊我沒有被覺得如果廈門人唱閩南語歌你會不會覺得被冒犯啊當然不會嘛你對於閩南的一些民眾他講閩南語跟台灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源嘛那第三個我要問哈馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的臺語你會壓抑嗎\n\n9\n00:03:13,427 --> 00:03:23,901\n不會啊不會嘛因為也是同源啊都是閩南語啊我們現在通稱的台語是福建省閩江以南通用的語言\n\n10\n00:03:24,676 --> 00:03:47,821\n是從明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語那閩南人講、臺灣人講、新馬的華人也講所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無外那閩南語保留中原古音甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石傳承古老的和樂文化\n\n11\n00:03:48,834 --> 00:04:04,129\n那當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的這個系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史\n\n12\n00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:20,402\n那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話\n\n13\n00:04:22,679 --> 00:04:43,365\n其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了\n\n14\n00:04:44,005 --> 00:05:00,783\n事實上我剛剛我看前面那個陳培瑞也講確實啊在台灣很多的民眾使用閩南語的民眾他有時候講就是方便起見通稱他就用臺語了可是當你這麼定的時候就出現一個問題第一個請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎\n\n15\n00:05:02,930 --> 00:05:32,430\n就日語嘛英國會講它是英國英語嗎德國會講它是德國德語嗎自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊它只有美式英語這樣的說法而已那也就是說今天說實在話本來齁在所謂的意義上不是講通稱意義上的台語它其實包含了閩南語在臺灣用的閩南語也包含了所謂的原住民語也包含了客家語言\n\n16\n00:05:33,010 --> 00:05:44,082\n可是當你這樣去把這台語專屬於所謂的閩南語的時候你反而自私一分不過我說真的講這個我覺得你們也聽不進去反正你們都要做了謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t11429\t有請文化部、教育部來,請李次長,還有梁司長委員好\n12970\t36126\t教育部在7月中旬預告要將閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準改名為臺灣台語語言能力認證考試收費標準引發了一些討論但是目前看起來教育部是不為所動所以9月30日如預告所示要把閩南語改為臺灣台語\n39003\t66701\t最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑那我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友的意見的看法有一位網友在PTT發文說他到廈門他被嚇到了為什麼呢廈門人台語之標準沒有奇怪口音說得比自己台北同學還要好讓他以為他在台灣這是一位網友的一個\n67981\t69603\t中國人想學台語讓他很不舒服\n78740\t106456\t尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱臺語歌曲使用我們的文化符號讓他很不爽覺得被冒犯了那也有網友說對於馬來西亞的朋友會說臺語的問候語三字經他十分訝異他說原來臺灣的這個問候語已經發揚到世界各地去那我想要請教一下我們的李次長\n107981\t136636\t你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好啊?這怎麼回事啊?廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話廈門人用的就是閩南語啊就是閩南語 你有沒有去過廈門?沒有 抱歉對嘛 我去過真的 就是那網友講的 你們都覺得我在台灣嗎?會有這種時空感 你知道嗎?因為他的閩南語跟台灣的閩南語是同源的啊\n138417\t162646\t應該這樣說,如果是一個比較善於常用臺語的人員來講,到了廈門去應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟臺語之間的差距。你一樣跟我講口音當然,我跟你講宜蘭跟這個,跟那個高雄口音就不一樣啊,當然口音有些微差距啊,你不能用這口音的些微差距跟我講就是說,沒有關係啦,我覺得,次長,我現在請教你下一個問題啊,啊中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌?\n165235\t190564\t這個由中國他們來決定啊你會不會覺得被冒犯啊我沒有被覺得如果廈門人唱閩南語歌你會不會覺得被冒犯啊當然不會嘛你對於閩南的一些民眾他講閩南語跟台灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源嘛那第三個我要問哈馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的臺語你會壓抑嗎\n193427\t203901\t不會啊不會嘛因為也是同源啊都是閩南語啊我們現在通稱的台語是福建省閩江以南通用的語言\n204676\t227821\t是從明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語那閩南人講、臺灣人講、新馬的華人也講所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無外那閩南語保留中原古音甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石傳承古老的和樂文化\n228834\t244129\t那當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的這個系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史\n244890\t260402\t那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話\n262679\t283365\t其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了\n284005\t300783\t事實上我剛剛我看前面那個陳培瑞也講確實啊在台灣很多的民眾使用閩南語的民眾他有時候講就是方便起見通稱他就用臺語了可是當你這麼定的時候就出現一個問題第一個請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎\n302930\t332430\t就日語嘛英國會講它是英國英語嗎德國會講它是德國德語嗎自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊它只有美式英語這樣的說法而已那也就是說今天說實在話本來齁在所謂的意義上不是講通稱意義上的台語它其實包含了閩南語在臺灣用的閩南語也包含了所謂的原住民語也包含了客家語言\n333010\t344082\t可是當你這樣去把這台語專屬於所謂的閩南語的時候你反而自私一分不過我說真的講這個我覺得你們也聽不進去反正你們都要做了謝謝\n","txt":"有請文化部、教育部來,請李次長,還有梁司長委員好\n教育部在7月中旬預告要將閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準改名為臺灣台語語言能力認證考試收費標準引發了一些討論但是目前看起來教育部是不為所動所以9月30日如預告所示要把閩南語改為臺灣台語\n最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑那我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友的意見的看法有一位網友在PTT發文說他到廈門他被嚇到了為什麼呢廈門人台語之標準沒有奇怪口音說得比自己台北同學還要好讓他以為他在台灣這是一位網友的一個\n中國人想學台語讓他很不舒服\n尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱臺語歌曲使用我們的文化符號讓他很不爽覺得被冒犯了那也有網友說對於馬來西亞的朋友會說臺語的問候語三字經他十分訝異他說原來臺灣的這個問候語已經發揚到世界各地去那我想要請教一下我們的李次長\n你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好啊?這怎麼回事啊?廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話廈門人用的就是閩南語啊就是閩南語 你有沒有去過廈門?沒有 抱歉對嘛 我去過真的 就是那網友講的 你們都覺得我在台灣嗎?會有這種時空感 你知道嗎?因為他的閩南語跟台灣的閩南語是同源的啊\n應該這樣說,如果是一個比較善於常用臺語的人員來講,到了廈門去應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟臺語之間的差距。你一樣跟我講口音當然,我跟你講宜蘭跟這個,跟那個高雄口音就不一樣啊,當然口音有些微差距啊,你不能用這口音的些微差距跟我講就是說,沒有關係啦,我覺得,次長,我現在請教你下一個問題啊,啊中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌?\n這個由中國他們來決定啊你會不會覺得被冒犯啊我沒有被覺得如果廈門人唱閩南語歌你會不會覺得被冒犯啊當然不會嘛你對於閩南的一些民眾他講閩南語跟台灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源嘛那第三個我要問哈馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的臺語你會壓抑嗎\n不會啊不會嘛因為也是同源啊都是閩南語啊我們現在通稱的台語是福建省閩江以南通用的語言\n是從明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語那閩南人講、臺灣人講、新馬的華人也講所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無外那閩南語保留中原古音甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石傳承古老的和樂文化\n那當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的這個系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史\n那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話\n其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了\n事實上我剛剛我看前面那個陳培瑞也講確實啊在台灣很多的民眾使用閩南語的民眾他有時候講就是方便起見通稱他就用臺語了可是當你這麼定的時候就出現一個問題第一個請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎\n就日語嘛英國會講它是英國英語嗎德國會講它是德國德語嗎自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊它只有美式英語這樣的說法而已那也就是說今天說實在話本來齁在所謂的意義上不是講通稱意義上的台語它其實包含了閩南語在臺灣用的閩南語也包含了所謂的原住民語也包含了客家語言\n可是當你這樣去把這台語專屬於所謂的閩南語的時候你反而自私一分不過我說真的講這個我覺得你們也聽不進去反正你們都要做了謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:11.429\n有請文化部、教育部來,請李次長,還有梁司長委員好\n\n00:12.970 --> 00:36.126\n教育部在7月中旬預告要將閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準改名為臺灣台語語言能力認證考試收費標準引發了一些討論但是目前看起來教育部是不為所動所以9月30日如預告所示要把閩南語改為臺灣台語\n\n00:39.003 --> 01:06.701\n最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑那我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友的意見的看法有一位網友在PTT發文說他到廈門他被嚇到了為什麼呢廈門人台語之標準沒有奇怪口音說得比自己台北同學還要好讓他以為他在台灣這是一位網友的一個\n\n01:07.981 --> 01:09.603\n中國人想學台語讓他很不舒服\n\n01:18.740 --> 01:46.456\n尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱臺語歌曲使用我們的文化符號讓他很不爽覺得被冒犯了那也有網友說對於馬來西亞的朋友會說臺語的問候語三字經他十分訝異他說原來臺灣的這個問候語已經發揚到世界各地去那我想要請教一下我們的李次長\n\n01:47.981 --> 02:16.636\n你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好啊?這怎麼回事啊?廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話廈門人用的就是閩南語啊就是閩南語你有沒有去過廈門?沒有抱歉對嘛我去過真的就是那網友講的你們都覺得我在台灣嗎?會有這種時空感你知道嗎?因為他的閩南語跟台灣的閩南語是同源的啊\n\n02:18.417 --> 02:42.646\n應該這樣說,如果是一個比較善於常用臺語的人員來講,到了廈門去應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟臺語之間的差距。你一樣跟我講口音當然,我跟你講宜蘭跟這個,跟那個高雄口音就不一樣啊,當然口音有些微差距啊,你不能用這口音的些微差距跟我講就是說,沒有關係啦,我覺得,次長,我現在請教你下一個問題啊,啊中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌?\n\n02:45.235 --> 03:10.564\n這個由中國他們來決定啊你會不會覺得被冒犯啊我沒有被覺得如果廈門人唱閩南語歌你會不會覺得被冒犯啊當然不會嘛你對於閩南的一些民眾他講閩南語跟台灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源嘛那第三個我要問哈馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的臺語你會壓抑嗎\n\n03:13.427 --> 03:23.901\n不會啊不會嘛因為也是同源啊都是閩南語啊我們現在通稱的台語是福建省閩江以南通用的語言\n\n03:24.676 --> 03:47.821\n是從明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語那閩南人講、臺灣人講、新馬的華人也講所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無外那閩南語保留中原古音甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石傳承古老的和樂文化\n\n03:48.834 --> 04:04.129\n那當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的這個系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史\n\n04:04.890 --> 04:20.402\n那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話\n\n04:22.679 --> 04:43.365\n其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了\n\n04:44.005 --> 05:00.783\n事實上我剛剛我看前面那個陳培瑞也講確實啊在台灣很多的民眾使用閩南語的民眾他有時候講就是方便起見通稱他就用臺語了可是當你這麼定的時候就出現一個問題第一個請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎\n\n05:02.930 --> 05:32.430\n就日語嘛英國會講它是英國英語嗎德國會講它是德國德語嗎自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊它只有美式英語這樣的說法而已那也就是說今天說實在話本來齁在所謂的意義上不是講通稱意義上的台語它其實包含了閩南語在臺灣用的閩南語也包含了所謂的原住民語也包含了客家語言\n\n05:33.010 --> 05:44.082\n可是當你這樣去把這台語專屬於所謂的閩南語的時候你反而自私一分不過我說真的講這個我覺得你們也聽不進去反正你們都要做了謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":11.429,"text":"有請文化部、教育部來,請李次長,還有梁司長委員好"},{"start":12.97,"end":36.126,"text":"教育部在7月中旬預告要將閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準改名為臺灣台語語言能力認證考試收費標準引發了一些討論但是目前看起來教育部是不為所動所以9月30日如預告所示要把閩南語改為臺灣台語"},{"start":39.003,"end":66.701,"text":"最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑那我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友的意見的看法有一位網友在PTT發文說他到廈門他被嚇到了為什麼呢廈門人台語之標準沒有奇怪口音說得比自己台北同學還要好讓他以為他在台灣這是一位網友的一個"},{"start":67.981,"end":69.603,"text":"中國人想學台語讓他很不舒服"},{"start":78.74,"end":106.456,"text":"尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱臺語歌曲使用我們的文化符號讓他很不爽覺得被冒犯了那也有網友說對於馬來西亞的朋友會說臺語的問候語三字經他十分訝異他說原來臺灣的這個問候語已經發揚到世界各地去那我想要請教一下我們的李次長"},{"start":107.981,"end":136.636,"text":"你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好啊?這怎麼回事啊?廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話廈門人用的就是閩南語啊就是閩南語 你有沒有去過廈門?沒有 抱歉對嘛 我去過真的 就是那網友講的 你們都覺得我在台灣嗎?會有這種時空感 你知道嗎?因為他的閩南語跟台灣的閩南語是同源的啊"},{"start":138.417,"end":162.646,"text":"應該這樣說,如果是一個比較善於常用臺語的人員來講,到了廈門去應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟臺語之間的差距。你一樣跟我講口音當然,我跟你講宜蘭跟這個,跟那個高雄口音就不一樣啊,當然口音有些微差距啊,你不能用這口音的些微差距跟我講就是說,沒有關係啦,我覺得,次長,我現在請教你下一個問題啊,啊中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌?"},{"start":165.235,"end":190.564,"text":"這個由中國他們來決定啊你會不會覺得被冒犯啊我沒有被覺得如果廈門人唱閩南語歌你會不會覺得被冒犯啊當然不會嘛你對於閩南的一些民眾他講閩南語跟台灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源嘛那第三個我要問哈馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的臺語你會壓抑嗎"},{"start":193.427,"end":203.901,"text":"不會啊不會嘛因為也是同源啊都是閩南語啊我們現在通稱的台語是福建省閩江以南通用的語言"},{"start":204.676,"end":227.821,"text":"是從明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語那閩南人講、臺灣人講、新馬的華人也講所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無外那閩南語保留中原古音甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石傳承古老的和樂文化"},{"start":228.834,"end":244.129,"text":"那當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的這個系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史"},{"start":244.89,"end":260.402,"text":"那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話"},{"start":262.679,"end":283.365,"text":"其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了"},{"start":284.005,"end":300.783,"text":"事實上我剛剛我看前面那個陳培瑞也講確實啊在台灣很多的民眾使用閩南語的民眾他有時候講就是方便起見通稱他就用臺語了可是當你這麼定的時候就出現一個問題第一個請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎"},{"start":302.93,"end":332.43,"text":"就日語嘛英國會講它是英國英語嗎德國會講它是德國德語嗎自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊它只有美式英語這樣的說法而已那也就是說今天說實在話本來齁在所謂的意義上不是講通稱意義上的台語它其實包含了閩南語在臺灣用的閩南語也包含了所謂的原住民語也包含了客家語言"},{"start":333.01,"end":344.082,"text":"可是當你這樣去把這台語專屬於所謂的閩南語的時候你反而自私一分不過我說真的講這個我覺得你們也聽不進去反正你們都要做了謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:54:51 - 13:00:38","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155359,"gazette":{"lineno":1128,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時54分）主席，有請文化部、教育部。"],["主席：請李次長，還有梁司長。"],["李次長靜慧：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：教育部在7月中旬預告要將「閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準」改名為「臺灣台語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準」，引發了一些討論，但是目前看起來，教育部是不為所動，所以9月30日如預告所示，要把閩南語改為臺灣台語，對不對？"],["梁司長學政：是。"],["羅委員智強：最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑，我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友意見的看法。有一位網友在PTT發文說，他到廈門被嚇到，為什麼呢？廈門人台語之標準，沒有奇怪口音，說得比自己臺北的同學還要好，讓他以為他在臺灣，這是一位網友的心情。另外一位網友在Threads上面發文說，中國人想學台語，讓他很不舒服，尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱台語歌曲，使用我們的文化符號，讓他很不爽，覺得被冒犯了。也有網友說，對於馬來西亞的朋友會說台語的「問候語」──三字經，他感到十分訝異，原來臺灣的「問候語」已經發揚到世界各地去了。我想要請教一下李次長，你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好？這是怎麼回事？"],["李次長靜慧：廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話。"],["羅委員智強：廈門人用的就是閩南語，你有沒有去過廈門？"],["李次長靜慧：沒有，抱歉。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛，我去過，真的就是那位網友講的，在那邊都覺得我在臺灣嗎？會有這種時空感，你知道嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：我相信如果……"],["羅委員智強：因為他的閩南語跟臺灣的閩南語是同源的。"],["李次長靜慧：應該這樣說，如果是一個比較善於常用台語的人員來講，到了廈門去，應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟台語之間的差距……"],["羅委員智強：你要跟我講口音，當然，我跟你講宜蘭跟高雄的口音就不一樣，當然口音有些微差距，你不能用口音的些微差距跟我講……沒有關係，次長，我想請教你下一個問題，中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌？"],["李次長靜慧：這個由中國他們來決定。"],["羅委員智強：你會不會覺得被冒犯？"],["李次長靜慧：我沒有覺得被冒犯……"],["羅委員智強：如果廈門人唱閩南語歌，你會不會覺得被冒犯？當然不會嘛！"],["李次長靜慧：對呀。"],["羅委員智強：閩南的民眾講閩南語，跟臺灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源。第三個，我要問，馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的台語，你會訝異嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：不會啊。"],["羅委員智強：不會嘛，因為也是同源，都是閩南語啊。我們現在通稱的台語，是福建省閩江以南通用的語言，明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語，閩南人講，臺灣人講，新馬的華人也講，所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無礙。閩南語保留中原古音，甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石，傳承古老的河洛文化。","我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做，因為跟一貫所謂的去中化系列是有一些關聯，可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史。你把閩南語改成臺灣台語，有些人就會認為你這樣的做法，反而變成會造成剛剛前面講的很多人的困擾，他覺得為什麼中國人會說臺灣話？其實中國人說的就是閩南話，跟臺灣人說的閩南話是同樣的道理。","文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義，訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱，實質上某種程度只是把本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了。事實上剛剛我看前面陳培瑜委員也講，確實在臺灣很多使用閩南語的民眾，有時候為了方便起見，通稱就用台語了。可是當你這麼訂的時候，就出現問題，第一個，請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎？就日語嘛！英國會講它是英國英語嗎？德國會講它是德國德語嗎？自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊，只有所謂美式英語這樣的說法而已。說實在話，本來在意義上，而不是講通稱，意義上的台語其實包含了閩南語、在臺灣用的閩南語，也包含了原住民語、客家語言，可是當你們把台語專屬於閩南語的時候反而治絲益棼，不過我說真的，我覺得講這個你們也聽不進去，反正你們都要做了。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員。","接下來請涂權吉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}}